Follow your Instincts with Henry Winkler

So, let me tell you who the Fons was, at least to me. I'd love to hear it from you.
First of all, sexy. Now, what did I know about?

I'm sitting differently in my chair right now. What did I at that age? And I can't do the math, but I was young.
It did something to me. It's like whoo.

Yeah. And the

what? Oh, wait a minute. I just want to say something.
I'm a human being on this earth. I'm an American.

I've watched you over all of these years be this powerful presence in the universe.

And you're telling me,

I want to just say, I don't have to say another word. I can go home now.

This episode is brought to you by Rivian and Progressive Insurance.

Hey,

Craig Robinson. Michelle of Honor.
So what's the whale for? This was in your honor.

I'm surprised you don't know what this is. Okay, tell me.
This is a vineyard vines shirt from Arthur's Vineyard.

You're trying to get me to be a vineyard guy, and I'm trying to embrace it, and you don't even know what this is.

Well, I noticed the whale, and I thought it was very cute, and I thought, oh, he's got a little whale on it. Yes, it is a little sperm whale.

Are you sure it's a sperm whale? I am. Okay.

Did you research it? I did not research it. I can tell what a sperm.

Do you remember back in

that he can tell what a sperm whale is? It's because

he did a report in seventh grade on sharks. You still remember that? You barely remember anything I tell you.
But that's because I can remember stuff a long time ago.

That's what happens to old people. They remember the old stuff and not the new stuff.
Got it. Got it.

What else is going on? Well, so you're, I understand you're moving the Rivian that we got from Martha's Vineyard to Rivian folks. Yeah, yeah.

The Rivian folks gifted both of us cars folks to drive around in, and it's been fantastic. But my sister's moving her car from the vineyard.
From the vineyard to D.C. while we're in D.C.

because we're just in the vineyard for the summer. Are you going to try and drive while you're in D.C.? No, D.C.
would be a hard place for me to drive because I still...

I still drive in a motorcade when I do drive. So it's just the only place you can do that is on a small island when it's quiet.
Right.

So, but I think we're gonna have it there so that when the girls come home to visit there's a car for them to drive they complained about that the last time because we realized we don't we don't have a car yeah we didn't have a car until we got these rivians yeah um right so yeah well they're gonna really like this so there's a really neat feature that i would like to say that i figured out but it's really aaron figured out my youngest yeah it takes kids to it takes kids with all this technology to figure out what to tell me because i'm i I never know what the feature, all the features, because there's so many.

When your car is in park,

that big screen that you use for navigation and for all the functions of the car becomes.

like a television so he can watch you know if he if he actually logged into our tv network he can watch whatever we so you can get all your streaming apps on on there every single thing on there that sounds dangerous it does sound dangerous it sounds like rivian doesn't want you you ever to leave the car.

Rivian's like, you can live here, get a Rivian, save on rent.

And speaking of rent, you know, I mentioned to you, I'm staying in an Airbnb again this time around. First, let's stop on that segue.

That was a smooth segue.

What do you think?

Speaking of rent, I'm like,

all right.

Okay, speaking of rent, I like that. It was impressive.
Thank you. Thank you.
A compliment from you is

so rare. So rare.
So I'm going to

savor it right now, just savoring it. But no,

you know, we are

with Austin being a sophomore, we are embarking on these college trips now. Oh, yeah.
Are you, have you all started that already? We did. But it's just, I think

now that we have have grown accustomed to the Airbnbs, it's just a much more comfortable way to have

a main place to camp out, have meals, do laundry, and then go see school. You know, go see school.
Well, and you can definitely be because not all college campuses have great hotel amenities.

You know, because sometimes they're in small towns and they're off the beaten path.

Anyway, let's not digress.

We are.

Yes, you go ahead.

We're so excited we can't even talk.

Our guest today,

for Craig and I,

Henry Winkler is a household. He was, we grew up with him.
Yes.

We literally grew up with Happy Days,

the Cunninghams, the Fones.

And that was just sort of a part of

all the spin-offs.

That was part of our, that was the wallpaper of our life. Oh, man.

And to have him here joining us on IMO

is such a treat. And

we're going to talk about this when he comes out, but all the way from happy days to now, he's an author.

And,

but I want to, I mean, he's, he's in a show that I happened upon, Barry.

Yeah, you've been telling me about that. I've been telling you about it.
And I, I said to Henry when, when I met him, I got a chance to meet him and say hello.

And I was like fanboying all over the place. But I, I didn't know he was in it originally.

And so I, I went to watch it and lo and behold, he's in it.

And then I watched all the episodes. It's like four seasons.
I was just off and running. You got hooked, off and running.

All right, well, I'm looking for, I'm going to catch up on Barry because you've been raving about it. But let me give him the proper introduction.

Henry Winkler has over 50 years, 55-0 years of success in Hollywood and continues to be in demand.

And not only as an actor and a producer, but as I said, an author. He is a best-selling author of children's books that are wonderful.

His autobiography, Being Henry, The Fonds and Beyond, was a New York Times bestseller for 11 or 10 or 11 weeks there.

And then

we just found out he is going to be celebrating his 80th birthday.

Major milestone. Major milestone.
But

and he looks just as handsome. He's, he, I mean, he looks the same.
I mean, I mean, he could have worn a leather jacket here. We should have asked.

Yeah. Well, now, well, let's

just stop talking and bring him out.

Henry Winkler, please

come on down.

What a handsome man.

Oh,

so nice to have you here. Oh, my God.
Now she feels so short.

Yeah, most people don't realize we are a tall people, the Robinsons and Obamas. My husband is tall, of course.
But I just want to say, if you grew up with Defons,

you grew up really good i did yes you did i really did we you know we we lived a wholesome life and happy days and the fons were a part of that and you you should know we were only allowed an hour of tv a day

so on thursday

i'm honored tuesday night

doesn't matter what day

as long as you were there that's right tuesday night our hour was dedicated half of our hour was dedicated to you thank you well thank you for being here. Thank you for asking me.

And spending your birthday week with us. Yes.
How's it going? Well, this is a great way to start.

On my birthday week, part of the celebration, you said to me, I should celebrate now for the entire year. That's what, yes.
This is the kickoff.

80 is one of those, that's where you deserve a year of celebration.

I deserve new knees, is what I'm moving. You're moving around

pretty well. But

I get out of bed and I go make a cup of coffee.

And then I have to go back to the bed and invite my knees to come with me.

They're still lounging.

Oh, man, that's great. How are you feeling? I mean,

what is entering your 80s feeling like for you besides waiting for your knees? Okay.

I'm very grateful.

You know, people keep asking me, am I going to retire? Or have you retired? And I think that that is like the furthest thing from my imagination. I will retire when I am not able to do

again more. Right.

Do you know? I just, I think that it is deadly. Yeah.
Do you get up every day with a schedule? Are you working five days? I need, I work a lot.

I have several jobs. I do a wonderful show on the History Channel called Hazardous History,

which when they presented it to me, I just loved the facts

of it. I thought, this is outrageous.

Let's tell the listeners the premise, Justin, so that they know, because you just got picked up for a second season. Yes, we did.
We did eight.

It did so nicely because people watched. We were now picked up for 30.
Yeah.

And okay, so here is the premise. I hope it's not a

sponsor. Seven up.

1927. Yep.
Bubbly.

Citrusy. Yeah.
And the refreshing. Refreshing.

And the tagline was, we will take the edge off

because it was laced with lithium.

Oh, no.

So

just one fact of what we did, either to make money or thinking we're helping human beings.

The edge off with a little crack. Yes.

Yeah. And that was legal.
And that was at that time legal.

So

you got hazardous history. So you're still working a lot.

Our newest

children's book came out on September 30th. Is this your 40th? This is the 40th.
The 40th children's book. Right.
Now, here's something.

I did not know I could do this.

Yeah. And what I learned was

that there's more than one way to do anything.

I have a wonderful partner, Lynn Oliver. Yeah.
She types, I talk.

Then she has an idea. I wait.
She types. Then she reads it to me and we argue over every word.

And since 2003, we have 40 children's books. The newest one is Detective Duck.

This little duckling who dreams about being a detective. And she's an environmentalist.
And she, she's a she. She's a she.
I love it. I love it.
And powerful. What age group are you targeting?

It's for emerging readers.

So I would say five, six, seven.

Then the next series is seven, eight.

And then we have

fourth grade to seventh grade. Wow.
Well, congratulations. And, you know, let's

just to put that in context, when you talk about that you are doing something that you never thought you could do. Right.
And that is writing because you reading.

And reading because can please share with our artists

yeah like until the cows come home but i am dyslexic uh and i could not read i read my first book at 31 because i said i have to i have to read a novel like everybody else on the earth right

And you find out, and I tell children, every child I meet, whether they want to hear it or not, how you learn has nothing to do with how brilliant you are.

Yes. There are so many dyslexic human beings on this earth.
One out of five children have some sort of learning challenge that are doctors and dancers and plumbers and

everything.

Yeah. Well, tell us about little Henry Winkler.
I mean,

your parents,

tell us about their background, where you grew up, what, you know, what life was like for you. We lived above our means.

We had an apartment apartment in New York City.

What part of New York? 78th and Broadway.

I went to PS87,

right down the block.

The little boy that I wrote about first, Hank Zipzer, went to PS87, lived in my apartment.

Did you feel

accepted?

Did you feel like a part of that community? That is a great question. I never felt accepted, but also

part of it must be be the learning challenge and part of it must be my delayed emotionality,

which I now know is true, because I had to protect myself because every time I left my bedroom with a smile,

thinking, hey, okay, here's the day, I was in a war zone.

I was yelled at for something. that I wasn't even, I had no idea what I did.
Yeah. And

I'm not saying, oh my God, woe is me, because I'm having a pretty great life.

I'm just saying this was the way it was. So I stayed in my room and pretended I was Paul Anka.
Paul Anka. Yes, I played rubber bands around pencils and I sang, put your head on my shoulder.

I lip-synced it,

you know, and of course, gave a lot of speeches as I won Academy Awards.

So you had.

You knew you were going to be an actor. I wanted it so badly.

I could taste it. Did you articulate? Did you tell your every minute of every day? And what did your parents say? Why do you think I brought my business over here?

And I said, besides being chased by the Nazis, dad, was there like a bigger reason than that?

He wanted me to take over as a family business buying and selling wood.

He wanted me to buy and sell mahogany.

The only wood I was interested in was Hollywood.

And I was told I would never get there.

Wow. Wow.
So, how did you come here? You are sitting at this table. How did you keep your dreams alive through all of that? That is a good question.
I'm not sure. All I know is

I just kept it. Yeah.
I kept the fires burning. Somehow I found enough wood to keep that fire burning.

This segment is brought to you by Progressive Insurance, a brand that believes home ownership is more than just a place to live.

It's about fulfilling your dreams, unlocking a future full of possibility, and building the life you've always imagined. So, what was the most exciting thing for you about buying your first home?

You know, I think it was the fact that we could do it, you know. Right.

I

remember it fondly.

Right after we got married,

Barack and I, fortunately, were in a position where we had enough money saved where we could buy our first condo.

And I think the process of looking for it, you know, going from house to house, I hadn't even really

lived on my own until then because I lived above mom and dad's house in the rental

above the house. So I hadn't, I had never gone house hunting.

And that process was

a lot of fun.

And I did it with Barack. We were newlyweds.
It was exciting.

It felt like the beginning of the future.

So, yeah. And do you remember the highlight of when you found

that first condo? Well, we started narrowing down. We were looking in Hyde Park.

We knew the neighborhood in Chicago that we wanted to live. And so as we looked, we were able to narrow down to a specific development that we really loved.

We saw a couple of units in that development. It was called Eastview Park and it was right off of the lake.

And after a couple of outings, we decided, you know, this area, because it was enclosed, it was private, there was a private, you know, driveway area.

So it felt quiet, but it was still a series of apartments. We could imagine the girls playing out in the yard.

the children, because then we didn't know we were going to have girls, but we knew we wanted to have a family. Right.

So, yeah, we were able to narrow it down to that unit. And then we started really asking our realtor to find really good places in that unit.
And we saw two. Okay.

And we narrowed it down to the one that we have. And the big exciting part about that was

it was really right down the street from where you lived. Four houses down.
Four houses down.

Four apartments down yeah it reminds me of what i found exciting about our first place was very similar just the fact that you're looking for a place to live but i remember our place if you remember it was a duplex condo and it had the spiral staircase to go down to the family room i remember going to visit that before we i because i went to one of the when you guys were closing in you brought i think me and mom to come see it that's right and i thought that duplex piece was very sophisticated.

Yes, it was very sophisticated. And it was really neat having that feeling of home ownership, you know?

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That reminded me a lot of what our mom used to say is that

you have to treat every child as an individual.

She used to say that and she said, you know, I'm not raising children, I'm raising people.

And so just that phrase alone is the beginning and the end.

If you look at it, that you're not raising children, you're raising people. Yeah.

It will completely change the way you approach

that job. Exactly.
And having a philosophy of parenting is important. I mean, you know, we live in a society.
People, you know, they people want folks to procreate. They want to stop people.

They want to take choice away because they want us to be parents and

bring forth life. But rarely do we have conversations about what it means to be a parent.

Why do you want to be a parent? Because you have to know your own motivations for why you're bringing life into this world. I think that is probably rare.

I actually,

I've never considered that.

I just did,

you know, because it just seemed like the right thing to do.

I never looked at it in that way before. And I never heard other people say that before, really.

Why am I a parent? Why am I doing this?

It becomes a thing you want.

Like a love.

Right.

And your philosophy of parenting changes based on your reason. If you're having a child because you want to be loved,

well, now you're looking for a friend. You're looking for this baby to be something for you.
Right.

If you are looking for somebody to live out your dreams, to be what you weren't.

Now that means that you are not going to see who this child is because you already have a sense of what you want them to be. Right.
So

you're not going to leave them any room because you need them as your father. I wanted you to run the business.
Right. Well, he had made up that his

decision up before he even got to see who you would be. Right.
And I don't even know how the decision decision of what I wanted came to me. I always say that it was just

a thing I needed to do.

I don't know why.

Well, because kids are snowflakes.

We're all grains of sand. Right.
And we come here with, I think, a certain level of temperament. built in to our DNA.
Right.

Because

I think if everybody looks inside, we figure out, well, how did I know? How was I that person? How did I know as a kid to be that? How did I know? How did that person grow up and invent corduroy?

How did they know? That's right. That's right.
And they might have been thinking as a three-year-old, corduroy is my thing. And I don't know where it came from, but I'm

going to feel so good. I'm going to turn it on.
You're inside out.

But if you have more than one kid, you realize. that they are different.
I mean,

Craig and I, we were raised in the same household from the same parents, same set of experiences. He's a boy, I'm a girl.
We are very different people.

And our parents would say that was a parent the minute we could,

even before we could communicate. But if you're not looking for that difference, if you're not looking to understand your baby,

to understand that part of parenting is that you have to be listening to them and watching them because they are telling you who they are

very early on, which is why you knew, because you came into this world, I believe, as an actor, as a creative, as a, and maybe that's why your learning is different, right?

My learning is through my ear. Yeah.
So when you say listening,

I have to listen because that's how I learn.

Reading is so difficult even now because you don't lose your dyslexia. You just learn to negotiate.
Yeah. Yeah.

And it's fascinating that developed into an actor where you have to read. Oh, I chose a professional.
How did you do that? So, you know what?

When there's a will, there's a way, yeah, you want it bad enough, you figure it out.

I write it over and over, and I, when I get a script, now, if I do one script, I must read it and read it, and read it, underline it in yellow, let it go in. When I'm doing a series,

it's like you're working a muscle.

All of a sudden, by the 11th show, I can rub the script on my body and it goes in.

You know,

it's an amazing process.

So the Fonds role, let's talk about that because that was

changed my life. It changed your life.
It changed our lives.

Thank you.

It really did.

So you're, you're, let's go before you get that role.

How did it come about that you auditioned for that? And then

were you acting before? Did you start?

I was in New York City. I went to, I have a master's degree in acting.
I don't know where I got the nerve, but I applied to with, with, I've got into one college out of 28.

I'm in the bottom 3% academically. I applied to the Yale School of Drama.
Wow. I just thought it was really important to know as much as I could so that I had some kind of foundation.

I stayed for a year and a half in the repertory theater. I got $172 a week.
I'm a professional, went to New York, couldn't get hired, did commercials

for

supermarkets, sank a coffee, American Airlines.

And then I did the Lords of Flatbush. And then somebody said, you want to be known to New York? Stay here.
You want to be known to the world? Go to California.

Big decision.

Went to California. Second audition.
How old were you, Mr. Man? I am.

I am

1973.

I landed Terra Firma, California, September 18th.

My birthday is October 30th.

I have no idea how old I am. I know, right? It's like, Craig, you're the math guy.

No.

All right, someone with math. No, somebody will tell me.

Somebody is going to write in.

They're going to write in, and you're going to know in a couple of weeks. You were in your 20s.

You were in your 20s. All right, 27.
Okay. Let's just say that.

I said, well, you know, I can't go and I can't be in a series because I was trained for the theater.

And Joan Scott said, wouldn't you just go? Okay. I drive to Paramount in my rented Capri.

It's green because I love green.

It's like a little sports car.

I walk in the room.

Everybody is famous. I've seen them all on TV.
Wow.

My heart sunk.

Now it's my turn. I go in.
My hair is down to my shoulders. I have a sweatstain that looks like the Hudson River is under my arm.

And

I see the man, Pasquale. He's going to read with me.
He's going to read the other role. I only have six lines.

And I don't know where it came from, but here is another lesson I learned.

Go with your imagination. Whoever is listening to us right now, go with your imagination.
I looked at Pascual and I said, hey, don't look at me like that. I changed my voice.
I'm looking at him.

I'm a scared short Jew. I'm playing a tall Italian.
I threw the script up in the air. I walked out of the room on my birthday, October 30th, 1973.

Tom Miller calls me, one of the producers from Milwaukee.

It was set in Milwaukee because of Tom Miller.

And he said, would you like to be part of the show? I said, if you let me show the emotional side to this guy,

when he takes off his jacket, who does he have to be cool for? They said, yes. I said, yes.

Wow.

Wow.

The Fons was born. The Fons was born.
So you were nothing like the Fons. I am.
In real life.

I am. Whenever we met people like the Fons at school dances,

and I immediately became

blonde. And I said, I hear you.
You sound so tough. I cannot see you.

I'm just going to feel my way right out the door.

please

whoa well but for listeners people because now generationally we can't assume everybody knows what happy days is and the fons so let me tell you who the fons was at least to me i would love to hear it from you first of all sexy now what did i know about sexy i'm sitting differently in my chair right now what did i at that at the age and i can't do the math but i was young right i was under 10 right to think okay you were 11 11 all right No, no, no.

Yeah.

So I was young. Nine.
I was young. Preteen.

And I saw on the screen the coolest.

You did. You read tall.
I did. You read.
People said, oh my God. I thought you were tall.

Yeah.

You read 6'3.

Think

and an even cooler version of John Travolta.

Right?

Black, jet.

Before John Travolta, thick, black, luscious Italian hair. Who knew? Right.
I had it imported. Slipped back, right? So the Fonds is on his bike, black leather jacket, gray t-shirt underneath,

white, gray. Yeah.

Cool.

Just leaning up. Because even before you had the black jacket, at one point you changed to that khaki jacket.
No, that was the first jacket you were right.

It's very hard to be cool in cloth. In cloth,

which did you make that change? No, no, no. Gary Marshall went to ABC

and the network. We were in the network was in the bottom.
It was the third network. There were only three at that time

on television. And he said, you know, he could be very hurt if he rides his bike and he knocks over in cloth.
In cloth. They said,

when he's in a scene with his bike, he can wear leather. He's got that black leather.
And I remember that change because I think it did something to me. It's like, whoa.

Yeah. And the first thing I'm saying.
Can I just say something? What? Oh, wait a minute. I just want to say something.
I'm a human being on this earth. I'm an American.

I've watched you over all of these years,

you know, be who you are, be this powerful presence in the universe.

And you're telling me,

I want to just say, I don't have to say another word. I can go home now.
Wait till Stacey hears this.

I don't care.

I'm going to play it for her.

Just that segment.

Okay, I'm sorry. But Fox was also, not only was he handsome, but he was the strong, silent.
You just said was.

Well, we're talking about the Fox. Oh, yes.
Right, of course. Right.
Henry Winkler continues to be. I told you when you walked out.
Yes, you did. Very cute.
Yes, you did. Very cute.
Yes, you did.

Yes, I did. And I bet.
Yes, you did.

But the strong, the character type, which was, he didn't say much until he said something. That's right.
He was usually the moral order of happy days. The sort of,

you know, sock hockey kind of wasn't the moolie or the bad thing. He was who I dreamt of being.

But everybody was terrified of him.

And, but he had a heart of gold. Yeah.
Right.

And you slowly got to see that part of him right so fonds became was really the heart of happy days you know in a very interesting way so that's just the explanation of how powerful your character and how how well you embodied that because it was sexy cool good-hearted good-hearted tough guy and loyal and loyal loyal i loved my friends yeah i loved the cunninghams yeah they were the family i did not have

in that mythical place.

Craig Robinson here. And as the holiday season comes closer, it's time to plan our holiday travel.

And you know, as our family gets older, it makes it harder for all of us to cram into one hotel room for an extended period of time. So

we have six or seven adult-sized people traveling simultaneously now that the kids are getting older. So we need a little more space.
We need a little more freedom.

That's why booking a stay on Airbnb makes so much sense for our family.

You know, imagine heading to South Carolina with friends for a cozy fall weekend or taking the family to Orlando over the Thanksgiving break.

Instead of being stuck in a hotel lobby or eating takeout food on the bed, which can be kind of fun, you've got a living room to gather in, a kitchen to cook these great holiday meals and make memories.

You even could cook out outside, which I love doing in the fall weather. It makes the trip feel warmer, more personal, and way more memorable.

It's those little things, more space, more privacy, and staying in the coolest parts of town that make an Airbnb trip better than a hotel. Welcome back to IMO.
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We here at IMO are big believers that people never stop growing, that we're all in a state of continual becoming. So much so that Michelle even wrote a book about it.

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Now,

I think I know the answer to this, but I want to ask you, did being the Fons change Henry at all? No,

he did while I was playing him. Okay.

I had to, I couldn't believe that people were actually talking to me because I was still Henry with a very low self-esteem.

So I couldn't, I liked what they were saying, but it went through me because it couldn't be me.

So it couldn't help uplift that feeling that your parents.

No,

when I lived my life,

I was still that Henry walking around until lately, about 10 years ago,

I was so confused,

I met a therapist

who if I were to give a gift to, I would have to give her a skyscraper. Yeah.

Because

I was a block of Swiss cheese growing up. And I wanted, I knew I wanted to fill in the holes.
And I want to become a block of cheddar. Yeah.

Yeah. What did she do?

How did she do it? The woman says nothing.

the woman says nothing

she sits there and i say hey what about this and she said yes yes what about that

what do you mean i'm not don't ask me

and then she forces you to look

at you yeah

and you know what all of a sudden it's not so difficult it's okay and i have become strong i don't know that you brought up Barry. Yes.

I don't know that I could have played Gene Cousinau without going through that process. Wow.
What led you finally 10 years ago to do therapy?

I was completely discombobulated.

I just, I,

instead of walking a straight line, I was psychologically drunk.

I think I was emotionally drunk and I don't even drink.

And I'm telling you,

you don't know. She asked me a question

in our very first session. She said,

where are you? I had no idea what she meant. What do you mean, where am I?

Sitting here in this chair that's wicker and not that comfortable.

By the way. Hello, wicker.
You could put like a cushion. I know.
It's the therapy. Where was the couch?

Where was the leather?

And

all of a sudden, I started to answer that question over the years. It takes time.
You have to really devote time. But it is the greatest time I've spent outside of my children and my grandchildren.

How did how did therapy, this discovery, the filling up the Swiss cheese holes, creating your block of cheddar, how did it manifest itself in? I will tell you,

I think

I really do have that answer because I enjoy it so much.

I'm able to say

what I want to say. I'm able to say,

I really need this.

I really want this.

I'm not okay with that. I am perfectly okay with that,

as opposed to

dance around in some sort of crazy chicken dance,

you know,

asking for you for what you want in life. Yes, taking my place

on my

place on this earth.

Not having those tools

most of your life, but still building a very long and very successful career. I mean, there there was the Fonz, but and how many seasons?

It was 11. No one has 11 seasons anymore.
So you spent the bulk of your adult acting life in one of the most successful shows ever. Right.

Playing one of the most successful characters ever. I am so grateful.
And then you go on to produce, direct, continue to act. Produce because I couldn't get hired.
Yeah.

Produce because people said, oh my God, he is so funny. He's so lovely.
But he was the Fox. He was the Fond.

But there wasn't a struggle in those roles of creation to ask for what you wanted.

How did that work? Until about

15 minutes ago.

I'm not kidding. What did that look like for you to run something? Would you second-guess yourself?

This is what I will tell anybody over and over again. Your mind.
as educated or not as you are, your mind only knows a little. Your tummy knows everything.

When you listen to your instinct, you're always in the right place. Oh, I love that.
Whether you're at

a job interview or you're going to date somebody for the first time, you get a bad feeling, you go home, you give the flowers back and walk back in the apartment. You know what I mean?

Thank you so much.

Enjoy your dinner. Yeah, yeah.
So you operated on instinct.

You had to learn how to trust your tummy, as you say. Yeah.
Yeah.

You know,

My tummy, and I tell that

to

everybody.

Well, we're taught the opposite. Think, you know, you have to use your logic.
You have to, there's an answer, there's an algorithm, there's a, but

when you don't learn to read,

yeah, you let it gustate, and then it comes up in your mind like the magic eight ball. An answer comes, and then your tummy knows if

is that answer right?

I'm it's it's an answer, but I'm not feeling

it

reason. It took me so long uh to say it right because I was suppressing a burp.
I just want you to know that's a natural thing. Oh, okay, just in real life.

Okay, yeah, I was just

thinking, I thought that was a metaphor. No, no, no, I did not finish the sentence because I was working so hard not to burp.

You can't burp in front

in front of the jacket. That's true.
I was like, this is so deep. He's going deep.
And it's like, oh, he's trying not to burp. Thank you.
Thank you, Henry. Thank you for that.
Thank you for that.

I am, I'm fascinated with

how you've worked to be a different parent.

And you are now a different grandparent.

And I think I would love for you to share that journey because there are a lot of people who grow up in tough circumstances. They were misparented.
They didn't know. They were unparented.

So you know how that feels. Yeah, yeah.
Right? One knows how that feels. Yes.

So I said that I learned through my ears. So listening, because our children, if you give them a little bit and you say, you know what?

I think you're going to help figure out what the punishment or the consequence is going to be for what you just did.

Or

you're going to figure out what your curfew is.

Yeah, I can't live with that. Oh, I can live with that.
Okay. And if you don't call, if you're going to be late, you lose 10 minutes.
My daughter, Zoe, went out at 8. She was back at 8.20.

She lost all of her

Saturday night.

That poor girl got dressed to go nowhere.

But it was her own doing. Oh, my gosh.

Hey, I told you. All you got to do.

Very few rules. Yeah.

Again, I think that we were lucky in that we had a mother that was highly adaptable. And it changed the way I parented.
You know, it was really, you know, you realize that you have to,

even punishments, you know, how you solve problems

between one child and the next. You know, one child will listen.
The other child doesn't care. That's exactly right.
Oh, my goodness.

I tell this story all the time about Malia and Sasha when they were,

they were probably seven and three at the time. And Barack was traveling.

So I was at home trying to get the girls to bed.

They were great kids, but this was one night that they were just being rambunctious. And I was like, get ready.
It's time to take your baths. And no one was listening.

And I was in my frustrated mommy time. And I said, well, that's it.
You know, no one listens to me. I'm done parenting.

You, you seem like you guys have this all figured out and you can do this on your own. So have at it.

My oldest daughter, Malia, said, oh, no, mommy, you know, I can't do without you. And this is what I'm thinking, yeah, this is what I wanted.
I wanted her to realize that she needed me.

So she immediately started taking off her clothes. And it's like, mommy, no, I don't know what I could do without you.
Sasha, my three-year-old, was sitting on the stairs watching all this.

She took her blankie and she turned around and went back upstairs to watch TV

as if to say, like, thank God,

at last, this is what I wanted from you, lady. I am three.
I can handle this. I'm going back upstairs.
And she got five steps up. And I was like, if you don't turn around and get back down here.

And I was like, well, it worked for one, didn't work for the other. Let me ask you a question.
Are those characteristics in those young ladies now?

Yes. Exactly who they were.
Yes. They have to.

My younger daughter has to, she wants to learn her way.

You know, she, she,

she doesn't want to be told that this is how you do it. We tell her, but she's got to learn on her own.
We have seven grandchildren. They are.
from 16 to nine months completely different human beings.

One is a dancer. One is in the theater.
One is a mathematician. One of them wants to be an athlete and is on his way.

The little

three-year-old

is enchanting, knows that she walks through the world and moves air.

You know, one is Ethel Merman.

I'm telling you, it's unbelievable. How has it been being a grandfather? It's different.
Yeah. And it is, it's enchanting.

It's enchanting to hear each one say, hi, Papa.

And each one gives you a hug differently, but they all give you a hug and they know that I need to have that hug.

Oh my God.

One of them, you know, the 16-year-old,

she's beautiful and she FaceTimes me.

Say hello to Roy.

Oh, hello, Roy.

Or she wants to put

a mask on me, you know? Don't do it. Don't do it.
On your FaceTime, you become a rabbit or something. Yeah.

She loves that, huh?

She's like, don't you dare turn me into a rabbit. Like my daughter.
My daughter used me like a gardening tool when there was a young man around. How so? Just walk by him.
Just walk by him.

You're on television. Let him see that.

All right. Don't say a word.
You were in the water, boy. Okay.

I'm not kidding. Just move through.
Just move through. Do not look.
Do not look.

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Well, you know, here on IMO, we like to take questions from our listeners

and hopefully give them a little bit of advice. And I think we have a perfect question from you that's coming from

for you, not for you. I know what you meant.

I knew what you meant. She was my sister.
I saw it.

I saw it happen right to her.

It was just like, do I let him? Do I let him let that go? I feel like I'm helping him. You know what? I understand.
And really, God bless you. Yes.
Thank you very much.

But we have a question from a listener in Colorado. Oh,

Terry in Longmouth. They get to wear sweaters.
Yes.

I have five adult children. They are all married and have their own kids.
My question to you is: how do you parent your kids as adults?

When my adult children come to me with struggles they are having, I sometimes find myself at a loss as to how to help them or how much I should be trying to help them.

I'm curious what you think our place should be in supporting them.

Okay.

All right. So, number one,

you really don't have a place in parenting your adult children.

Two, it is so difficult to shut up. Yes.

You want to say to, what are you kidding? You're holding your kid that way?

What are you feeding them?

Okay, that's, what do you mean she only eats cereal?

All right. When you're at a loss, you say,

I am so sorry. I'm at a loss.
Yeah.

Because you don't want to say something that

will not be the authentic.

That is my feeling. When they come to you, my daughter, also

talk in short sentences.

A parent will talk in paragraphs.

You will watch the eyes blaze over like ale.

We're all laughing because we've done it. Oh, my God.

Short sentences. Oh, yeah.
And they will hear you. Yeah.

And I also say as a, as a, as a parent, uh, with, you know, just at the beginning, you, your job is to repeat the same sentence for 18 years. Yes.

Every day. Yeah.

It's true. It's so true.
And then one day in their 40s, they're like, wow, you were listening.

It is

so true. I cannot even tell you.
Well, it's like the toughest thing in the world is to,

and Craig and I, we talk about this a lot, is part of raising people

and adults is the hardest job on the planet. The hardest job is that the goal is to,

as quickly as possible, give them the tools to think and problem solve for themselves. To be who they're supposed to be.
Right. And also to give them some confidence that they can do it.
And

it's a hard thing to do as a parent to try not to fix everything for them before it's

guilty of that. Yeah, I am too.
I mean, Malia was with us. She was, we're staying with a friend, and they,

whenever they have a chance to stay in a nice house, they do. They're just like, we're coming over.
You know, we're just to take a bath and to have nice towels.

And so they wound up staying over last night because they stayed too long. And so they were sleeping in these beds.
She got up and she's like, oh, sleeping in nice sheets. It's the best thing ever.

I immediately say, you don't have nice sheets. You know, what do you, what do you need?

My baby doesn't have nice sheets. And she was like, mom, my sheets are fine.
You know, it's like,

my apartment doesn't have air conditioning. If they're too nice, they suffocate.
My point being is that I was immediately

trying. I wanted, I felt her discomfort and I wanted to fix it.

And you have to resist the urge

to fix their discomfort. You have to watch them.
I say this all the time. You have to watch

the person, the being you love the most walk straight into a wall that you see.

It's like it's a wall. That's right.
And you're going, you're moving really fast. You're going, oh, you hit it.
Oh, my God. I needed to let you do that.

That's a hard thing to do. Well, the one thing you just said is

I would put in the beginning of all those sentences.

Give them the confidence to be, when a baby is here, when they come and they come full-blown.

And what you said is the beginning and the end. Give them the confidence to meet their their destiny.
Yeah. Yeah.

And if you do that

young, right? So

to our listeners, Terry, to Terry,

if you do all that hard work early. Yes.
And early, I mean, I'm talking one, yes, two years old.

Then the question of how do I parent my adult children becomes moot because you won't have to. Right.
Because you've already done it. You've given them the tools early on.

And that is the beauty about being the apparent of adult children. The only thing is, I have to say that my daughter sometimes comes to me with an insecurity that is from the little girl in her.

And then I talk to her, not as the little girl, but I would say the same thing to the little girl

who is that insecure at 43.

We talk it through, and she goes, Thanks, Dad. I have to go and pick up Jed now.
Yeah, yeah, I have to go pick up ace. Yeah, no, I think that this, this is all really good for Terry.

Um, uh, the short sentence. We have to get to meet Terry.
No, we're working on that. We're working on that.

We've talked about following up with our listeners and having the questioners actually ask the question. We've talked about that, but

so I was talking about

authentic. Yeah, so being authentic and

Mish was saying get the work done early. That's right.

And I'm going to bring up something you said earlier, which is what your therapist does.

Sometimes you don't say anything.

When they come to you for advice, you ask them what they think.

You know what? There is, believe it or not, a book I found when my children were young. It was called

Effectiveness Parenting Training.

Something like that. Take my word for it.
And what it was is you only make noise.

My son would say, I am not going to school.

And I just said, uh-huh.

Oh,

yeah. I, oh, wow, you sound angry.

Yeah. And he would screw himself into the bulbs, into the ceiling, and then unscrew himself, get in the the car, put on a seatbelt, and say, Hurry up, we're going to be late.

Yeah, that's don't say anything. You are so right.

I'm not kidding. That is a that was a Frasier and Marion Robinson tactic.

And for someone who is a talker like me, that was a lesson that I'm still learning. You have to do more.

Wow. Oh,

oh,

yeah.

But you know what?

Just by making those sounds, you tell the child you're hearing them.

You're listening without knocking them off

their path at the moment. Or telling them how they should feel.
Yes, right.

Our mom was good at that. And she lived with us in the White House.
She came and

that helped us get through having a version of you. funny, sane, grounded in that house through that experience kept us all together.

For me personally,

almost every other day,

she stayed in a suite of rooms on the third floor.

And she would come down to be there for the girls to come home. She never wanted to just have dinner unless we were having company because she wanted us to have family time, just the four of us.

So she'd eat dinner upstairs. But every afternoon after I got home or every other from a busy day at work, I'd walk up before the kids got home and just sat.

And I did the same thing that I always did. I just talked, you know, this happened today.
I read this, this article happened.

And I would, you know, I'd watch the news and I just, she would just let me talk.

And as the first lady of the United States, just going upstairs to my mommy's room

and just letting it all out

with her going, wow.

Because the first lady Lady of the United States is a human first. Yeah.
Yeah.

She did that for us our entire life. That's amazing.
And never had that experience. Yeah.
Yes. You did now.
But you turned out wonderfully. Thank you.

Well, you know, like at least 87%.

Yeah.

But this conversation, you know, we shared a lot of don'ts. Yes.

That your parents. It's amazing this conversation.
Yeah.

We appreciate it. I had no idea what it was going to be.
Yeah, I was a little nervous. Yeah, were you?

Yeah, and I feel like I'm coming for a lamb chops. Yes, that's what we want you to do.
Yeah, I just, I like I do, and I like mint jelly.

I just want you to get

that generation. Yes, I am.
Where the mint jelly is the lamb chops, that's the thing, you know.

And if you have Spencer Roast, I like a currant jelly. Okay, yeah, okay.
All right, you're gonna keep that in mind. Thank you.
You're gonna keep that. This, this has been a delightful

conversation. I I mean, you are wise.

Wow. I didn't.
You are.

Well, hey, it's been 80 years of

built-up wisdom that you.

Speaking of 80.

Oh, yes.

We actually knew it was

a birthday. So we had a little bit of a something planned for you.

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday, dear Henry.

Happy birthday to you.

And then we have to sing the black happy birthday.

Happy birthday to you.

Happy birthday to you. This is Stevie Wonder.
Happy birthday.

Happy

birthday.

happy there, go go Henry, go Henry

Happy birthday

Okay, we can stop there