Episode 610: Special Edition

In California, I'm Illones de Ogarians that could result in a fuer temoto. And in the stadium, the remotes are inevitable.
A casual especially vulnerable

queus por unterremoto. Por lo tanto, sería necesario que tomes medidas para fortalecerla yudara retusir la possibilidad de daños.

La la vor, puede costarmenos de loquienzas, y a menudo, se puede completar en poco días. Para más información, visita fortalese tu casa punto com.
Otra vez, fortalese tu casa punto com.

Make this the year you took their breath away, only with Gold Belly.

The year you surprised them with the lobster rolls from their main honeymoon, the year the grandkids tried the black and white cookies that defined your breath and childhood.

The year they got to stay up late eating the cotton candy cake you sent.

The year they learned that true Texas barbecue really is that much better. Because with 20% off your first Goldbelly.com order, sending core memories nationwide has never been easier.

Use promo code GIFT and make this year one to remember. Running a business is hard enough.
So why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting. Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business.
This is where Odoo comes in.

Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need. It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.
CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part: Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

So you can focus on what really matters: running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odoo for free at Odo.com.
That's O-D-O-O.com.

This is Matt Rogers from Lost Culture East us with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. This is Boen Yang from Lost Culture East with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.
Hey, Bowen, it's gift season.

Stressing me out. Why are the people I love so hard to shop for? Probably because they only make boring gift guides that are totally uninspired.
Except for the guide we made.

In partnership with Marshalls, where premium gifts meet incredible value, it's giving gifts.

With categories like best gifts for the mom whose idea of a sensible walking shoe is a stiletto, or best gifts for me that were so thoughtful I really shouldn't have.

Check out the guide on marshalls.com and gift the good stuff at marshalls.

Like a midnight tender, rock and roller. He's in a fight for wrestling solar using a racket and some mind controller.
He's Jim Cornish.

The keys to the future, held by the past. And with tag team partner, Barion Last.
He sends this message out by podcast. He's co-he's never fake a phony.

He never backs down from a fight.

He never wins the pony. Cause his mama raised him right.

It's time

to prepare

your mind.

Hello again, everybody, and welcome to another exciting episode of the Jim Cornet Experience. You may have already had your turkey, but I haven't.

It's a special edition today so that I can get some peace and dad gum quiet. And joining me for all this and so much more.

Hawaiian Brian, the podcasting lion, the king of the Arcadian Vanguard Podcast Network, Mr. Co-host to you, Gobble Gobble.
He's my turkey day delight, the great Brian last, everybody. Aloha, Jim.

A pleasure to be here once again. Happy Thanksgiving to you and all the listeners.
They'll be hearing this, I guess, a few days after Thanksgiving.

And we don't care because here's what the premise of today's episode, ladies and gentlemen, is that at the holiday time, when everybody across the country, not in Canada, though, they already did it.

Everybody across the country is celebrating Thanksgiving.

We, me and Brian, would have had to disrupt our lives and break ourselves away from our loving families to sit down and record a show on Thanksgiving weekend unless we were able to figure out a way to do it beforehand.

And that's what we have done today.

We're not reviewing. any kind of modern wrestling.
We're going to have some fun, talk about a variety of topics that are evergreen and full of joy for the holidays.

And then we get our three-day break. Does that about sum it up, Brian? I think that about sums it.

I don't know how much of a break we're going to have, but there's another pay-per-view around the corner. But there really is no break when you really think about it.
And

yeah, this is.

There's no rest for the weary. Yeah, this is what it is.
It is what it is. Well, and this show will be what it will be, folks.

We hope that you had a wonderful Thanksgiving, and we hope that you will come back and listen to the drive-thru in a few days when we go over the survivor series situation.

But until then, enjoy the work that we have created for your pleasure over the holiday weekend. Here to show.

Well, Brian, here, since it's the holidays and we don't want to talk about anything

stressful. and problematic and et cetera, we thought we'd cheer ourselves up a little bit and the people to cultivate at the same time.
You have done a little homework here because we were talking

on one of the recent shows about the ages of the wrestlers and how that everybody thinks it's everybody's younger now than in the old days. And in actual fact, as Adrian Street would say,

it's a tether way around.

The guys actually, as a whole,

even the big money players were younger in the territory days. And

you have done a little homework to illustrate that with the ages of everyone in that pivotal year of 1984. Mid-South wrestling caught on fire.

Dallas was still hot with the Von Erickson, the Free Birds. Vince was beginning his national expansion, the blah, blah, blah.

And there was a ton of major names in the business that were active on a full-time basis.

So you have made that list and we thought we would take a look. What way was the

20 people in their 20s that

ought to be 86 or something, some list from some

off-brand publication? Yeah, we've done a few segments recently that kind of triggered the idea. One being the look at the 20 best wrestlers in their 20s.

And when we were discussing that, You know, it was kind of alarming how few potential stars, future star, current stars there are in their 20s.

And that caused you to go look at Mid-South Wrestling in 84, which is why I stuck to 1984 for this example, and look at some of the ages on that roster.

We've also been discussing who are main inventors on the current roster.

Both companies have tons of wrestlers signed up. How many of them are main inventors?

So, again, it caused me to go back to 1984 and put together a list of everyone's ages, everyone in their 20s, 30s, 40s,

50s, and one in their 60s. Technically, one teen.
Tonga kid should be on the teenager list. He wasn't yet 20 that year.

But we could look at this, talk about this, and maybe you could put together your top 20 in their 20s for 1984, which is a real tough list. That's tough.

The one they did in the

whatever it was, Bleacher Report or whatever, that was a nonsense list, but there aren't a lot of candidates. You look at 84, it's ridiculous.
Well, yeah, the list that we read showed the

dearth, if you will, of you know, people that are truly already, I mean, there's a lot of people in developmental, but I'm talking about already experienced, already having been a proven business factor in a place, may have ended major events that drew for the era.

Certainly more people in 1984 on average for events, just not the same finances, but you get the drift. And,

you know, that's because

guys that got in the wrestling business in those days, except if you had somebody

transitioning from pro football, had already been a professional in

one sport or another, and then made the transition, they might start later.

And occasionally, you know, you'd get a guy in his mid-20s that that Stan Lane

started late, but he looked so youthful. But most of the time,

guys were getting into business as soon as they, as soon as they could.

And, you know, teenagers or late teenagers and early 20s. And

if you wrestled regularly,

In those days, you were wrestling literally six and seven nights a week. So the experience that you got

and working with a variety of different people,

if you debuted when you were 19, by the time you were 24, you kind of knew what the fuck was going on pretty much everywhere.

If you were any good or going to be any good at all, you had five years' experience wrestling 300 times a year.

You know, and another thing to think about as you start talking about this list.

On the top 20 in their 20s for 2025 were, for instance, Daniel Garcia and Wheeler Yuda.

You can't even imagine guys like that would exist on this list in 1984. It's a different

kind of person, different look.

It's just a different breed of wrestler that were wrestlers back then.

Daniel Garcia. And again, I'm not even trying to blister these guys personally.
I'm just stating a fact, and anybody can go and look at video and

see.

Garcia and Yuda would be guys that were doing jobs on television or, you know, like the guys that maybe, you know, Nelson Royal is going to train over in North Carolina to do some jobs around the

local shows in a Carolina, whatever.

No, there would have been no room.

There's no look. There's no promo.
There's no personality. There's no gimmick.

There were hundreds of guys that would have been standing in front of them for all the territories.

Well, with that

preamble yes why don't we talk about

wrestlers who were in their 20s in 1984 now for this list jim if you turned 30 in 84 i did not include you you would be in the list of people who were in their 30s in 1984 right so again minus my mistake which was putting tonga kidd here he was 19.

These are wrestlers in their 20s. And again, as we're going through this, mark off or state who you think would be in a top 20, and then we can kind of break it down from there.

Barry Windows.

And hold on one second. This is not, I just want to say one more thing.
This is not a complete list of all the wrestlers that were wrestling in 1984, actually,

because, I mean,

there were still a bunch of others that may have slipped through the cracks here, but these are main names that would be recognized in a variety of places in the business at that time.

Would that be fair for me to say?

Yeah, I guess you could say these were all stars or featured wrestlers of one kind or another in the business in 1984.

It's a different business, as I mean, just reading through the list, it'll tell you that. So, Jim, not in any specific order, but here are wrestlers who were in their 20s in 1984.

Barry Wyndham, who was born July 1960, he was 24 years old. Oh, good Lord.
And

he was already had been featured in Florida and was starting the first

WWF run, right, in 84, and then came back down south. We've talked about Barry, bounced back and forth between Crockett and the NWA and WWF for several years there.

He was already one of the best in-ring babyfaces in the business. And in

three years later, in 1987, he's 27 years old.

Did he have the greatest Ric Flair matches with Flair Wrestling? Anybody not named Steamboat?

He was just, I mean, so smooth and

incredibly agile and safe and

never hurt himself or anybody else, but was doing all that stuff just effortlessly, just a natural. So

he got to be a top. He was one of the top five in-ring workers in the business a couple of years later.
So he's got to be top 20 here.

And even in terms of KFABE, in terms of a push, star in Florida, brief run in Mid-Atlantic, goes to the WWF, instant push with Mike Rotunda as a top tag team, top babyface tag team.

Jim, born July 1957,

Brett Hart.

And Brett was just starting to get used on a national basis at this point, but he had already been in the business for about seven years, I believe, maybe know, a little longer, whatever.

And obviously, everybody knows Brett's pedigree.

Brett Hart, at this point in time,

was,

you know,

he wasn't even a real main event level guy, but he was still featured and had worked, obviously, Calgary, and was starting for Vince and had so much talent. Nobody can.

There's another top 20 guy, I would think, already with two out of two. All right, let me me put that down.
Bret Hart, 27 years old.

Born January 1959,

25 years old, Brian Blair.

Brian Blair, 25 years old.

Now he's a

politician of a variety of kinds.

Brian Blair had been used in Florida, was a member of the killer bees with Brunzell. And what did they start in 84, or 85?

Excellent worker, good baby face. I don't think he's going to be top 20 on this list just because of this fucking list.
And actually, this age may not be correct.

I see something else here that says he was born in 57. So still in his 20s, but this may not be

completely accurate. Now I got to wonder about everything else on this list.
Oh, good heavens. It's your list.
It's my list. Jim, born in April 1957,

which would have made him 27 years old, Brutus Beefcake.

Well, bless him. He was about to be a big star,

but his in-ring to that point had been less than spectacular. And I mean,

you know, Dizzy Hogan, Eddie Boulder, et cetera, et cetera. But

within a couple of years, he would be a big deal. Again, because of this list, I don't think he's going to make the top 20.

Here's an interesting one because you almost never think of him as oh, that wrestler in his 20s,

25 years old, Buzz Sawyer. Buzz, I've got pictures of him when he was 19 and he was almost bald.

So he always, and he had that giant melon head. He always did.

God damn, Buzz Sawyer in 1984

had already had the top run in Atlanta, Atlanta, the feud with Tommy Rich.

Business-wise, he had been featured in several different places. He'd already had a run in Dallas by that point, I think.

And obviously, in the ring, everybody knows he was goddamn almost one of a kind.

He was just

an asshole and a fucking drug addict. But besides those things,

again, I don't know about a top 20, but we'll put a question mark.

All right, let me note that. Buzz Sawyer question mark.

Jim, born August 1961.

Hot stuff Eddie Gilbert.

Eddie Gilbert, born one month before me.

At that point, Eddie had main evented his first run in Memphis against Lawler and then gone to, he was about to go. No, he was still main eventing.

that year against Lawler, the first run, but he'd been in the business.

He started working outlaw shows in Arkansas where they didn't have a commission or Missouri, I should Malden, Missouri, when he was still 17.

And as soon as he turned 18, he could get a license in Tennessee. So he had

five years' experience at that point. He was about to go to work for Watts in Mid-South, end up booking down there, you know, push-sting, et cetera, et cetera.
And then everybody's familiar with

Eddie's career, you know, from then on.

Again, he's not top 20 because when do you see some of these names? But boy.

And again, we're speaking specifically about 84. So it's not like top 20 in 84, you know, how they were in 85 or anything.
84, he becomes hot stuff Eddie Gilbert.

He creates the gimmick when he comes back to Memphis, gets his first heel run.

And that's, you know, kind of the beginning of hot stuff Eddie Gilbert right there.

So not on your top 20. Well, just, I know everybody's going to say, well, he's pissing on it.
Wait till you see the rest of these names, folks.

Again, another one of those names that I hadn't even thought about. Yeah, he would have been on that list, top 20 in their 20s.
You don't see anyone like this nowadays.

Jim

at

26 years old, the dynamite kid.

And he wouldn't turn 26 until December of 1984.

He,

there's a top 20. Check him already.

Revolutionized the junior heavyweight division in Japan. Was

one of the all-time most spectacular workers, was in insane physical condition until he had to blow himself up on the gas to go to work for Vince. But

the, what, 79 to 83 period.

Jesus Christ, was there an athlete like that in the world? And the aura that he projected.

And his shit looked like it killed you. And he could if he wanted to.

But I've talked to guys that Danny Davis worked with. They never touched him.

So, yeah, top 20, Dynamite Kid, for fuck's sake.

At 22 years old, born November 62, Davey Boy Smith.

And Davey Boy.

was about to uh with dynamite 84 they were about to head to new york

davey boy's a question mark on a top 20 again just because of this list but he had already worked calgary japan

they had

a reputation the bulldogs as as a team you know and

22 years old

at 26 years old mike rotunda

And we just talked about Mike here recently on a show, but he had already, this was before the varsity club.

That would happen about three years later, but four years later, whatever. But

he'd already been used in Florida as a babyface. He was an up-and-coming.
He's not a top 20 guy at this point in 1984.

But,

you know, what a talent.

25 years old, Paul Roma.

And Roma

looked great.

I mean, if you went back and looked at Paul Roma's matches right now,

with today's eye, he'd probably be

one of the most solid workers in the business. But did he ever stand out to you compared to some of the other people on the list? He did, but not in 1984.

Again, we're talking about the very, very beginning of his career. He was used as an enhancement guy mostly on TV or working the first match on, you know, small shows.

He wasn't yet in power and glory and everything else.

At 21 years old, Samu,

Samoan number three.

Well,

some people may remember him better as Samu and Fatu of the Samoan SWAT team.

They

had not been used at that point, but were, he's 21 years old. By

what was it?

He and Fatu, by what, 87, 88, were teaming. 88, yeah.
They were in world class with Buddy Roberts. Yeah, and then came to WCW.
So he's not a top 20 guy here, but he's 21 years old.

He's already in the business. He's getting experience.
In the next few years, he's going to be a main event guy in a number of places. 23 years old, born April 61, Steve Lombardi.

The brawler.

For longevity, he may be the number one guy on this list. But

again, you know,

wonderful guy, good worker. Because of the class that he's in, he's not going to make that top 20 list.

Also born April 61, 23 years old, Terry Bam Bam Gordy.

Heck,

where's your horn? No, don't do it. People are mad at you.

Terry Gordy, at 23 years old in 1984, had already main invented the Superdome in Louisiana.

The Freebirds drew tons of money in New Orleans, not New Orleans, not just New Orleans, but all over the Mid-South Territory.

They'd been on the Super Station out of Atlanta, been the Georgia Championship Wrestling's top heel team.

They'd gone and set Dallas on fire with Devon Ericks and was still there.

And it was still drawing money. And

within, you know,

what, next year or so, would get to be one of the top foreigners in Japan.

He was fucking amazing. There's no,

there's no talent today like Terry Gordy was in

shit in 1981, much less 1984. When he was only 20, he was phenomenal.

Well, Jim, speaking of people who started as teenagers, again, I included him here. We'll just briefly mention him, although he's not eligible for the list.

The Tonga Kid, born April 1965, famously sold out the garden with Roddy Piper as a teenager.

And he was the,

you know, the stopgap measure when Snooka went sideways, right? That's right.

And so he kind of stepped into a spot, but at the same point,

he carried the ball there and people remember him. So he's, I don't think he's top 20 in this list, but he was already a main event guy.
He's 19 years old.

In terms of people who had a very interesting 1984,

at 23 years old,

member of the Midnight Express, Wendy Richter.

Wendy,

she was an honorary member because she helped us against that nasty old hacksaw Jim Duggan.

And then she was in the garden, what, six months later, or whatever? No, like a month later. Like, it wasn't actually.

It was that

month later.

Son of a bitch. Somebody actually sent a telegram back when you could do that kind of thing.
I still have it.

A telegram to, I think it was the TV station in one of the mid-south markets. And they

gave it to me at TV one day.

And

it said, grab your tennis racket and your can of ether.

Your honorary member is fighting in the garden on whatever date. And one of the fans just, yeah, it was a cute little thing.

Does she go on a top 20 in their 20s for 84?

I think she has to just because of the hit, the drawing position, the money drawing position.

I mean, Wendy was not

going to be, you know, confused with

Rhea Ripley in the ring, but she was probably the biggest name. female wrestler of an entire generation.

You know, it's crazy. I I never thought about it until I put together this list.

We'll probably talk about the 30s and the 40s and the 50s a little bit later, but there's only one name in the 60s: 61-years old fabulous Moolah.

She's in a feudal Wendy Richter. It's almost a 40-year-age cap.

It's fucking incredible. I never thought of it that way.

Boy, howdy. And

see, I tell you, I'd met Wendy in, what was it, 1980? So how old was she? So she was 19

when she was the Dallas cowgirl, Wendy Richter.

And I

have pictures, not that kind of pictures. I have publicity pictures that I took when she came through.
I think she worked with Mula one night.

And she really did a lot of work to drop some baby fat, as they say, between that point and 84. And she'd got where, you know, she fit the fucking gimmick perfectly.

But she had been working for a while. She had another another interesting name you never really think, oh, that guy when he was in his 20s, 26 years old, Arne Anderson.

Well, and everybody gives the picture of like wrestlers baby pictures and it'll be all baby pictures. And then there's Arne, like from the 80s when he was 30 or whatever.
He never changed.

I met Arne in the summer of 83. He was, he had just started working as Arne Anderson.

And

that's when he and Matt Bourne had been a team until Bourne fucked up and left him floundering. And he happened to be on the card in Columbus, Georgia, the last night we were going to be at Columbus.

And

Dundee had all of the guys that were going back to Tennessee. They all ran in and Arn beat him up or did something or whatever.
He said, He's the only one staying.

So

at this point, I think he was in Alabama, right? Getting first

kind of legitimate

push as a single. Well, I was going to say as a single, but he was teaming with Stubbs first.
But 83, 84 had been the first time anybody really used Arn.

So

that's a tough one because it would be another year before he would really get a main event push, but he was already so good.

I mean,

he would definitely be on your list for 85, right? Yeah. Oh, God.
Yeah.

It's just if you're sticking to 84,

was he there at that point? But I'm putting the question mark down because he may well be when we finish.

Jim, born June of 62, 22 years old, Brad Armstrong.

22.

And

again, Brad

was always good.

And in,

what was it, 80 and 81? He was just so darn skinny. But then he really started working out.
And by the mid-80s, he looked so phenomenal physically. His work was so smooth.

All the guys wanted to work with him.

You know, everybody

loved him as a worker.

He had gotten pushes in Alabama and Georgia and Knoxville by that point in time and was in main events.

He didn't draw the money nationally that a lot of these guys would go on to do. But goddamn, he's so fucking good.
I think, do you have to put him on the list? And again, in 84.

Yeah, I mean, 84, he had a good little run in Georgia, right, with the Mr. R thing with Tommy Rich.

Yeah.

You know, he was used pretty good. You know, is he in the top 20? Again, I guess if you were making this list in 84, you're kind of projecting what you think 85 or 86 could be.

Do you want to put him on the list or put him as a question mark? Well, let's put a question down there. Check question.
Okay, Brad Armstrong, question mark.

Borazukov, 25 years old.

He was still Jim Nelson, wasn't he?

He'd been Jim Nelson in 83. That's right.
I guess he may have still been. I'm not exactly sure, actually.

So he'd go on to be a different person, but for the sake of this list, he didn't actually exist yet.

26 years old, and and I guess you could argue 1984 was the year the world discovered him, the world of wrestling. Bobby Eaton.

Well, I think it's no secret. I'm going to put a check mark here, but

it actually, if we're going by 1984, he's part of the team that drew record money in one of the largest territories of the country. So

that applies. And again, he's another guy.
Everybody wanted to work with him

because he wouldn't have hurt him. And he made him look like a million dollars.
And it was a night off, and so in the ring, and the respect from peers and

drawing money.

Bobby Eaton's a check mark.

Also, from the 84 Mid-South roster, 23 years old, Buddy Landell. He would turn 24 in August.

Boy, Buddy,

he was just starting to get used in Louisiana in 84 with the thing with Butch Reed and being the, you know,

Eddie Haskell to Butch.

Watts loved him. Dundee loved him.

Between eight, Dusty loved him. Between 83 and 85,

Buddy not only was a phenomenal worker, he was in shape. He could fucking talk and everybody was wanting to use him.
And his shit looked phenomenal.

And then

he lost control of himself. But if you didn't know that was going to happen,

I think you could argue, notwithstanding 1985, 1984 was kind of the year that Buddy Landell

became a star, and everyone's like, this is a future star.

And so I think you have to put him on the list of 1984 because

if he hadn't done to himself the things he did to himself,

he would have been figured into the Crockett run in the 80s and he would have been used on top.

Jim, at 26 years old, Kurt Hennig.

And here's another name. I mean, my God.

Hennig had already

turned pro.

He was still a teenager, right? He was so thin.

So painfully thin. He was in the WWF.
When was the first time? Was it 81 or was it 82? 82, I guess we could say safely. Yeah, but he had started working before that.
Yeah.

Obviously, he would go on to, within the the next few years, be another guy that was in the running for

he's the best in the business in the ring, etc. In 84,

he was still working for Vern, right?

Was that the team with Scott Hall?

That no, not yet. I think 84.

I don't even remember if he did anything in Portland still in 84, but 84 was him and his dad against the Road Warriors, is what I remember. That's right.

So I think he was still teaming with his dad and doing stuff with his his dad in the AWA.

Obviously, he's at least a question mark. Do you want to come back based on what he was doing in 1984? Let me write that down.
Current heading on the question mark list.

Here's an interesting one for 84.

29 years old, gentleman Chris Adams.

And he had already.

started the run with the valets and Garvin and Sunshine and Precious and et cetera in Dallas and was featured on national television. He'd only been in the country two years.
Didn't he

81 or 82? He started in Los Angeles. 81, I believe.

So

he's already a main event fucking guy.

And actually, that was

84 and an 85, and that was as good as it was going to get, wasn't it? Well, 84-2, he was, I think you could argue the biggest babyface next to Devon Ericks.

I would would say he was probably more popular than Iceman Parsons at that point. Yes.
And then he turned heel against Kevin, which kind of began,

I guess you could argue, the best run of his wrestling career, him and Gino. Yep.
So Chris and Geno. So again, 29 years old, but 84 is kind of the year that everything works out for Chris Adams.
Yeah.

So he's a check mark. All right.
Let me put him on the list. Chris Adams.
He's the oldest on the list so far.

Think about that. We got nine people

already and one, two, three, four or five question marks.

Someone you know well from 84, 24 years old. Dr.
Death Steve Williams.

Just the

prospects, the recruiting efforts, all these territories, all these fucking names.

In 1984, Doc had already been used as a babyface, not in the main events, but because he didn't start till 82.

So 84 really was when Watts turned him heel and started really pushing him.

And because of that,

I think that's the upward momentum in 1984. He had been a babyface and he was already over.
But then it was the match with

Hercules Hernandez and Jim Duggan in New Orleans.

Doc was the referee. I paid him off and he fucking turned on Duggan,

switched he over. Then the babyfaces came in and shaved my head anyway.

And then that was the trigger for the next year. Doc and DBase as a top heel team.
Doc would go to Japan, blah, blah, blah.

But he was getting his first major push in Mid-South Wrestling in 84.

So that would.

That would definitely have to be a question mark at least, right? I wasn't sure where you were going. Let me put him on the question mark.

Well, I'm thinking it, if not a check, Mark, I'm going to put a check in a question.

You brought him up before

28 years old, Hercules Hernandez.

Jesus crazy was 28.

Has there ever been since then, in the 40 years since then, Brian, a guy with that kind of body ripped?

at that size and that weight that could take backdrops and fucking big bumps like he did

and move like that. It just, it was amazing.
You know, when people like me first saw after the fact the television shows of Mid-South and 84,

that was one of the big revelations was, oh my God, Hercule, because you kind of knew him as a different guy in the WWF. Even before Power and Glory, like 89, 90 as the babyface with the blue trunks.

Yeah. He moved differently.
He paced things differently. He wasn't as wild and action-packed.
You see him in 84.

He's one of the best. I mean, you could argue in 84, he's one of the best big guys in the business.
Yeah. And see, that's the thing.

Hercules was so fucking big and cut and,

you know, energetic in his work and et cetera, and moved like that. And that was a calling card everywhere else in Florida, even in Mid-South with those big guys, he stood out.

And he had been used. He was my bodyguard in 84.
He was working the programs with all the top babyfaces.

But

Vince's land of the giants, he got even bigger. Instead of being

in mid-South, I bet he had a 34-inch waist. I mean, it would just,

he had bulk, but he had movable bulk. He was ripped and cut more and just, he looked physically phenomenal.

After five more years, when he gets an events mix and he's doing all the sauce that he's been doing, but now he's doing more of it, he was just thick everywhere and big to keep up with that

crew. And that cut way down on his mobility, not only five years later, but another 40 pounds.

That's why I say in mid-South, he was easily

260 to 270, but with a fucking, like I said, a 34-inch waist or whatever.

It was a whole nother thing when he got to be past 300 pounds. So, what do you do with him for this exercise? For 84, goddamn.
Oh, he was so good.

And let's put a question mark. All right.
Because we're running out of spots. Because look at the next name.

Well, the next name on the list, again, another guy you don't think of as being in his 20s, 29 years old,

Jake the Snake Roberts.

And Jake had already maintained several runs in Louisiana, and he'd been in Dallas and a variety of places all over the country and was within, what, a year of starting for Vince.

He's already a draw and attraction.

You know, and he's only going upward. I think he's got to be on the list, don't you? I don't know.

For 84, I don't know. Because again, he starts the year.
He's a star in Georgia. He has the feud at at Ron Garvin.
You know, the end of 83 is in the Legion of Doom, but 84, he's in Georgia.

Then he goes to Dallas, where he wasn't,

he wasn't the top heel as part of the group. He was kind of mixed in with Geno and Chris, but they were clearly slotted above him.

I don't know.

85, he goes to Mid-South. 85, I think, is the year that Jake, you're like, oh, yeah, this guy's a complete fucking star.
But 84, I don't know if it was as apparent.

Okay, well, let's give him a question mark.

I remember he was also making shots for Mid-South when he was in Dallas in 84 because he was on some shows we were on. So he was still bouncing around

in demand.

But we will question mark it. Another person from Mid-South 84, although he would move on and go to Memphis and then, I believe, end up in Florida by the end of the year, or at least early 85.

29 years old, Jim Nidhart.

The anvil.

Ah, I think he doesn't make the top 20 just because the list is so crowded. But again, in 84,

Watts is, he's tailor-made for Watts. He's already had the run in Stampede for Stu.

But Watts loved a big, legitimate athlete like that. And he used him real well in 83 and 84.
And then, as you said, he went on different places and ended up in.

working for Vince also. But in 80, the 84 wasn't necessarily everybody's going, Jim Nighthart, next big thing.

Well, here's someone who had a hell of an 84. He won the world title.

24 years old, Kerry von Erich.

Yeah, he's kind of got to go on the list, doesn't he? The biggest fucking star of the year as far as the NWA and as far as being a babyface is concerned, and drew the record gate.

in the history of the wrestling business. So he has to kind of be there.
One of the most sought-after people by Vince McMahon that he didn't get at that time was Carrie von Erich.

But also on the list here, Jim, 27 years old, Kevin Von Erich.

Boy, he was,

again,

had drawn nothing but money for the previous few years in Dallas. We've been talking about Dallas lately and how the Von Erich boys turned it around.

where they were doing almost no money in that territory in the late 70s.

Geez, does Kevin

get on this list just because it's so crowded and Carrie sapped a lot of his steam that year, but he's still a major fucking name. He's been to Florida.
He had that run in Georgia in the early 80s.

People had seen him on a couple of different nationally broadcast shows, Georgia and the syndication.

Or, I mean, is he also, is he a check mark? This is getting crowded. Again, I think Kevin is a candidate up until at least 85.

84.

Number two babyface you could argue to his brother.

Big star, super over.

Has the feud with Chris Adams. I brought it up for Chris Adams.
Got to bring it up for Kevin von Eric because it was a great feud.

Had that big match at the Cotton Bowl where he gave Chris Adams after he beat Chris Adams. He's like, I'm going to give you a chance.
Do the right thing.

He came in and then Chris Adams super kicked him and kicked the shit out of him and hospitalized him.

But I think if Kevin von Eric is going to be on the list, I mean, 83 and 84.

83 is definite. 84 and 85,

I might do it. I might.
Well, let's give him a check and we'll come back and count later.

Also 27 years old.

Coco where?

Coco.

Coco started

when he was, let's see.

He started in 1977. So he was 20 years old.

At that point,

he had seven years of experience. He had been an underneath babyface in Memphis, but then they used him on top against Lawler as a heel, managed by Jimmy Hart.

He and Bobby Eaton were the southern tag team champions.

But he had mostly stayed in Memphis at that point.

And really, he wouldn't get the national birdman thing for a while yet. So I don't think Coco's a gimme for the top 20.

But actually,

it's amazing that his best years in the ring were,

let's see, he was between 23 and 26.

Because once he left Memphis and went to New York, he never had another good match. But he was goddamn awe-inspiring in Memphis.
Just how good were him and Bobby Eaton live as a team?

Almost as good as Bobby Eaton and Dennis Condry. It's just you didn't have Dennis to steer the ship, but Coco could do wilder things off the top rope sometimes than Bobby did.

So it was a whole different kind of thing.

Jim, another interesting name that you never think of as being in his 20s at 26 years old,

the barbarian, although he may still have been Conga the barbarian at this point.

Maybe he was King Conga that year.

Yeah, again, what a talent. And

people remember him to this day. Incredible size, the way he could move.
He just, he's crowded by the names on the list.

And at that

particular point, I think he

was probably, he was never featured as a main event level guy on his own, but he was in a lot of heel factions.

But yeah, I think he gets crowded off.

Jim, at 25 years old, someone you know well from Mid South Wrestling, and again later in the NWA for Crockett Promotions, Crusher Khrushchev, Barry Darso.

Who would also later on become the repo man and then demolition with Bill E.

That's right. Smash.

You know, this was the year he was getting his first push from Watts when he became a Russian sympathizer.

He was still at that point Crusher Darso, but he was making the transition that he would then take to Crockett, Crusher Khrushchev. But boy, you know, he was getting a push too.
And

Barry wasn't yet really a polished performer because he'd only been working a couple of years at that point. But

I think he's crowded out because of the company here.

And friends, we will continue on with this list in a moment. But first, a very special message for you.

Boy, I tell you what, Brian, back in 1984,

they didn't have

all the internet and the smartphones and the video games and all the things to keep you occupied, like on long car trips or long times in the dressing room.

If I hadn't have been a boy, I wouldn't have had nothing to play with.

But

can you imagine how much fun that we would have had if we had the Raycon wireless earbuds?

Then we could have listened to our music and our radio shows.

We could have listened to Paul harvey tell us the rest of the story back in 1984 on the raycon earbuds and if you heard about what's going on now

the new raycon earbud the essential open earbuds

you can play your music and still hear what's going on

because the regular earbuds brian They block out everything. You can't hear somebody screaming, hey, Brian, or the car horn or the bread truck bearing down on you.

but these sit just outside the ear canal. They're in an ear canoe in the canal.

And you get the really clear sound, but you can hear what's happening around you. They're really light.
The ear hook rotates so they stay in. They don't fall out.

And again, the open ear design with the breathable fit and the multi-angular hook. They're very lightweight, but they still have the multi-point connectivity and the 36 hours of battery life.

So now for the holidays, you do not have to fear, Brian, being run over by a goddamn semi.

When you're trying to run across the interstate with a big screen TV that you've stolen from Walmart on your back, you can hear

the semi trailer truck bearing down upon you. Well, again, we don't want to encourage theft or anyone committing theft or running from the theft you committed, listening to anything.

Well, you you don't want to encourage people being run down, do you? Why don't we focus on other examples?

Imagine how much more efficient the Midnight Express would have been in 1984 if they had Raycon earbuds, didn't have to listen to you in the car.

You know, the essential open earbuds are here for the holiday season and they're selling fast.

Raycon audio products, ladies and gentlemen, are up to 20% off this holiday season. What you do is you go to buy Raycon, B-U-I-R-A-Y-C-O-N, by Raycon.com slash JCE open.

JCE open because they are the new open earbuds,

not the classic everyday earbuds.

JCE open

at buyraycon.com.

You will save up 20% this holiday season and you won't get run over by a truck. And think about it.

If you're one of the people who, unfortunately, there was an epidemic of this several, I guess, 20 or 30 years ago. A lot of grandmothers got run over by reindeer.

You'll be able to hear the reindeer coming too. They honk like Buicks.

They make that noise. You will not get run over like grandma did this holiday season.
Once again, great earbuds, great gifts for people you love and care about.

We all love them here in my house, and we're sure you'll love them too. Raycon, one final time, Jim, that promo code.
Buyraycon.com/slash JCE open.

Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.
One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in.
Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part: Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

So you can focus on what really matters: running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try

for free at odu.com. That's odoo.com.

Well, Jim, let's get back to this list as we compile the top 20 wrestlers in their 20s for 1984.

At 20 years old, although he began the year at 19, Mike von Erich.

Yeah.

There's no need to malign the poor fella, but no.

Another interesting one here: 25 years old, Michael P.S. Hayes.

He's got to be a check mark. I mean,

at that point, the only difference between him and Gordy was Gordy was a phenomenal worker, and Michael's in-ring work was passable at best.

But

everything else about Michael, the

ideas, the gimmick, the fucking promos, the aura,

they did as much to bring rock and roll music to wrestling as anybody else.

So, yeah, he's got to, and they'd drawn record houses in, again, Louisiana, Georgia, Dallas, sold out Reunion Arena,

on and on. So, I don't see how you can't, right?

I agree.

Jim, at 24 years old, Marty Giannetti.

Marty was already already a pretty good dagum worker.

He'd been around for a couple of years at that point, but he hadn't really been used, he was getting used in like the central states, Kansas City, whatever.

The uptown boys, him and the fake Tommy Rogers, Tommy Lane.

Yes. And so, you know, not yet.

Here's an interesting one. 25 years old, Magnum TA.

Boom.

This was

in 83. He'd already been obviously used to some extent in Florida and Portland.

But when he got to Mid-South, Watts made him and wrestling two tag team champions in 83.

And that ran until we got there and beat him for it, where then he

immediately had TA win a program against two who had turned on him. And by the end of the year, Magnum TA is the North American heavyweight champion.

He's working in the big shows with top guys.

How can he not be a check mark?

He was one of the most upwardly mobile guys of 1984. Absolutely.
Someone you think of when you think of Magnum, also 25 years old, Nikita Koloff.

Where?

Oh, shit.

We're a year away from him and Flair.

That's right.

That was the 85 first Great American Bash in the ballpark in Charlotte. But this was the start of the build for all of that.

Nikita Koloff didn't exist in the wrestling business before 1984,

but he would be

not only get a major push in 1984, but then end up being one of the

biggest names in the NWA for the next three years. And then

a variety of things. His career was curtailed early, but

I don't think he can be, can he be a confirmed check at this point in time? Because it's not 85, or does he have to be a question mark? I think I would wait till 85 just because

he was the biggest he ever was in 84, but he was kind of Uncle Ivan's secret weapon more than

someone doing a lot yet. It's interesting, though, you know, looking at this list and specifically the idea of what wrestlers were in their 20s then versus now

the guys who came out of minnesota who weren't the kids of wrestlers

none of them were like young it wasn't like a bunch of 19 year old kids getting trained by eddie sharkey they were already in their 20s Yeah, well, no, they'd already had time to be bodybuilders and flunk out at football and become bouncers and realize that that probably wasn't a great career path.

And then about 23, 24 years old, boom, here we go.

But you could tell, see, that was the divide in the locker room at that point between the guys that had started when they were, as soon as they were legally able, as early as teenagers, the Gordys and Bobby Eatons of the world,

and that had been fans and watched it. And that's, they were the

polished performers.

But the

muscleheads, as he used to call them,

the guys from Minnesota, the guys with the bodies, the look,

and it's been around since wrestling's been around.

The freaks, the blimps, the weirdos, the muscle guys fit into the freak category at one point because there weren't that many of them.

And when the

Road Warriors hit and Vince started pushing Hogan, that became the thing. And

then the guys with the bodies got chances.

Dusty was smart.

He could make something out of Nikita. I'll tell you, he didn't know what the fuck was going on when he first got there.

But Dusty took Nikita and in a year

had 25,000 people in a ballpark to see him against Flair on the nation's birthday.

And then he took Big Bubba.

who was not, he's not even on this list because he hadn't even wrestled yet. But in two years, he'd see a job guy and give him a gimmick and give him a push.

And within nine months, he's sold out Pittsburgh against Dusty, 16,000 people and set a record. And he's working in ballparks.

You could take the guys that, but for every

Road Warriors tag team, there was a

Big Al Blake, Vladimir Pietrov, or

the Master Blasters. All the bodies didn't work out.
But if they had any

concept and any talent,

a good booker like Dusty or

Vince or whoever the fuck could draw money with them.

Well, Jim, here's another interesting one: 24 years old,

former protege of yours,

the one-man gang.

Moon.

Moon, the one-man gang, brother.

He had already

worked Louisiana,

already worked, obviously, ICW for the PAFOs is where he got started

and had worked in Memphis and then gone to Louisiana and then

headed to Dallas. He was in Dallas when we got there at Christmas of 84.
So he started that year, did he not? He started in Dallas. Or would he have started in 83?

No, he started in Dallas, I believe, in 84.

And that's when when he got the gimmick because he had been one-man gang in 83 and mid-south and got a big push with Akbar, but he still had the long hair and just kind of the big long hair beard.

And,

you know, he started out kind of like a crusher broomfield, just looked like a big hillbilly. But yeah, with that gimmick, so 84 was a year.
He's on

world-class wrestling. He's working with Carrie.
He's managed by Gary Hart. He's figured into the reunion arenas and the cotton bowls.
And

that's at least a question mark, is it not? Again, only 24 years old. That's what gets me there.
Yeah.

Jim, another name on this list that's interesting. He starts off as an undercard guy in 84 Mid-South, and he ends up as a heel with a push in Memphis.
26 years old, Rick Rood.

Rick Roode, he was doing jobs on TV for us

in December 1983. And by the middle of the summer, he's the Southern heavyweight champion working with Lawler on top in Memphis

and become ravishing Rick Rude.

And

does he make this list? Because at that point,

that was the only thing he had done in 1984. was pretty much was work in Memphis and they led him by the hand through that.
But he's always my example of a guy who had all the tools.

And if he went to the right places and worked with the right people and was trained by the right bookers,

he developed from a babyface job guy to a heel on top in a small territory to a heel on top in a bigger territory with a gimmick, and then etc.

So

he's not on the 84 list, but he would be probably on an 85 or an 86 or an 87.

Another interesting name for you here: 26 years old from the Rock and Roll Express, Robert Gibson.

How does he not get a check mark? They're the

hottest babyface tag team in the business in Louisiana that everybody's hearing about. And Dusty and Flair won them

for the Carolinas, which they, as soon as they left Louisiana, that's exactly where they went. They were the...
They were even bigger, but 84 was the year that they exploded in Mid-South. How is

Ricky and Robert kind of have to be checks, don't they? Well, we'll get to Ricky shortly and we can discuss if they should be individual checks or if you have to include them together.

But another interesting one here, Jim. 27 years old from the Legion of Doom, Road Warrior Hawk.

And let's go to the next name

from the Legion of Doom. The Legion of Doom, he is 24 years old, a bit younger than Hawk, Road Warrior Animal.

The Road Warriors and the Rock and Roll Express in 1984.

Again, Ricky Roberts started as a team in 83 in Memphis, but they weren't featured. Road Warriors started as a team in 83 in Georgia.

Just, you know, the story is out there. They were thrown out on TV when Matt Bourne fucked up and

Ole said, Sharky, give me your guys.

And in 84, they were already major stars, Road Warriors, and starting to travel outside the territory.

I say Rock and Roll Express, Midnight Express, and Road Warriors in 84.

Who had more upward momentum? And you brought up Ricky Morton, so I'll say that here, too. He was 28 years old, allegedly.

Allegedly. In 1984.

There There is

at some point we have to get some type of FBI investigation going on on the real legitimate age of Ricky Morton. But I just prefer to say he's timeless.

So what do we do? Do we put both the Road Warriors and the Rock and Roll Express together on the list or do we?

You have to.

You have to, but not.

That's a good way to only take up two checks instead of four. But

Road Warriors and Rock and Roll Express in 1984 on a list of the top 20 guys under 20 in the business. Jesus Christ, how do you not?

All right, Jim. I'm noting that down.
At 28 years old, former NWA World Champion Tommy Rich.

I don't think he makes the list because

he was already too old.

Think about this.

Tommy Rich

started in,

I don't know the date of his first match. If it wasn't November or December 1974, it was January 1975.
I know I saw what had to be one of his first five matches in person.

And boy, howdy,

for the first

six months, you were like, what the fuck? Why are they doing this?

And then he got with Tojo and Tojo helped him. And from the summer of 75

through,

goddamn, what was it?

Probably the end of 70, first part of 77,

Tommy was used as a tag team champion and a southern heavyweight champion against Lawler and a tag team champion with Bill Dundee. And then Barnett heard about him, asked

Jarrett for Tommy, and gave him that push in Atlanta where

obviously he got over so good, they put the belt on him for a week. Harley agreed to do that.
He was 21 then.

And then by 84, they've already done the program with Buzz Sawyer.

I think 84 probably Tommy had more rental car accidents than sellouts.

And he was kind of

his career was on the downward trajectory by 84.

Well, Jim, another name here from your future.

At 25 years old, Tom Pritchard.

Wow.

Tom had been in Memphis in 83, but in 84, I think he went to Pensacola, did he not?

And

85, he would end up in Mid-South. So I'm not sure if it was 84, maybe.

I think he was in Alabama. Then he was Mid-South.

Not on this list at this time because it's too crowded. He wasn't getting used yet, but he was already a heck of a worker.
Here's an interesting one that I'm always surprised at.

I noted it the other day when we went through some of the ages: that he's older than I would have thought. 29 years old, young babyface Terry Taylor.

Terry Taylor in 1984

was fucking tremendous.

And he was

working in Louisiana, but Terry had been a good babyface since like 81 or 82 in Memphis. And

Memphis was just so crowded with babyfaces that could talk. Jerry Lawler and Jimmy Valiant, Bill Dundee, and Austin Idol, whenever he was a babyface, and et cetera.
And

Jarrett liked Terry Taylor as the old school type.

good-looking babyface. He still used him as southern champion, but he never really worked on top in Memphis.

But they did the same thing in Mid-South. Remember, Terry was the North American heavyweight champion and had that Superdome match with Flair for the NWA title.
Great fucking match.

Terry was always in shape.

He was an excellent worker and he was a good-looking babyface in peril.

His promos were not

anything to fucking do, you know, dissertations on, but he was intelligent and well-spoken.

He was perfect for an old-style traveling babyface type of

U.S. champion or something like that, or a territory top babyface where the other top baby face was a hacksaw, dug-and-kick-ass kind of guy.
See, he had some balance.

He had something for the guys and something for the girls. Terry Taylor, tremendous fucking picture seller, by the way.
Good lord. lord.

But

he was,

again, great in the ring, great at everything except promos, and that was okay.

Carried himself well

as a babyface, and then had that run as the Red Rooster and never meant another goddamn thing in the wrestling business.

And

boy howdy, I don't know what to take. But again, 84, we're five years before before he's the red rooster it's a few years before he would ever turn heel

a year before he would be mid uh mid-south north american champion like you noted if you look at him in 84

at the end of 84 would you have said this guy in the next five years is going to get a big push and be a big star for crockett or somewhere else um

Well, actually, that's the thing.

And Terry would go to work for Crockett for a while there, but I could see in 1984, I could see Terry Taylor being a top babyface in the Charlotte territory in the mix of NWA guys.

He worked that style.

But in 1984, in Louisiana, he was still kind of

underneath Jim.

Dog, he was definitely underneath Dog when Dog was still there. He was underneath Jim Duggan and he was underneath Magnum.
So he don't make the top 20 list, I don't think. All right.

Jim, I know you were still at that point keeping up with everything happening all over the world that you can get on tape.

So here's an interesting name for you. 26 years old, the Cobra, George Takano.

Well, and to be honest, I'm not going to take up a top 20 spot for him on this list because primarily we're dealing with Americans, although there's going to be some names on here.

But goddamn it, it was a Tiger Mask opponent. And

he was kind of excellent. Yeah, he was kind of what they used to fill in the blank after Tiger Mask after the big scandal in 83 leading to 84.

But he worked with him first, didn't he? Am I blanking on, or am I having brain tumors that I've seen the Cobra against Tiger Mask, or did he come completely after? Now you're making me question it.

I thought he came after, but he might have. But point is, excellent talent, good worker.
And

they used him.

Anoki used him, but I don't think he didn't

stand up to this class as far as worldwide superstars. You brought this name up earlier.
27 years old, Matt Bourne.

Where was he working in 1984? Because he burned Ole in 83. I believe he was.
Did he go back to Portland? I think he was back in Portland and then early 85, he would end up in the WWF.

Briefly. Yeah, the list is too crowded.

Here's another interesting name that would have later fame, and he was just starting out. 26 years old, Scott Hall from the American Starship.

And was he Coyote or Eagle? I think he was Sive. Which was Spivey.
I think Spivey was Eagle.

No, I think Spivey was Coyote. Well, nevertheless, they were actually, as a team, they were kind of just the shits.

You can't, I mean, Scott Hall would go on to be one of the biggest stars in the history of the business, but from 1984, you can't put him on a top 20 list in this company. He was not

really doing that much in 1984.

Here's an interesting name. He had lit up the world as Tiger Mask.
In 84, he had been Tiger King.

Sotoro Sayama,

he was 27 years old. Can you believe it?

He'd already done the Tiger Mask gimmick, changed the fucking business over there, accomplished in the ring what he did, and dropped the gimmick and was on the downhill slide by the time he was 27.

I mean,

this guy's one of the greatest in-ring talents in the history of the business. But if we're grading on 1984, is it the same thing as Tommy Rich? He was almost done.
He was on the downhill slide.

Yeah, I don't know if I would put him on the list for 1984. I agree with you.
That's just, there has to be some kind of draw a line there and just what the fuck.

Because, and he chose in large part to get out of the business or get out of the mainstream business, do his own thing, pick his spots. So

it wasn't like that his performance collapsed, but

it was just an odd story where he was

so great for such a short period of time. Well, Jim, a few more names from the land of the rising sun.

At 26 years old, Yoshiaki Yatsu.

Boy, you would remember better than I

how did they use him over there? I mean, I know he

was a top guy and a name for a while, but was he revolutionary at that point? He was really good. He was a part of the whole Choshu group,

but I don't know if I would put him on this list. And here's another interesting one who, again, a few years later, it's a no-brainer, a year later, maybe even.

But here at 25 years old, Akira Maida.

Now, remember in 84, he did a tour with the WWF as the,

you know, Shinma sent him over. And he was like, you know, jobs for Rene Goulet.
And that's why he hated American wrestling. They had him job to everyone in every small town.

Yeah. And that's amazing.
And he's a whole nother,

there's another line with a what the fuck because a guy that was that

influential and still his success in this industry was short-lived but massive, but it wasn't yet in 1984. So he ain't on, he's a what the fuck.

You can maybe say that about the next person, although he did get a good job. Jesus Christ.
At 27 years old, at Sushi Oneida.

Oneita, at that point in time, was the most recognizable name of the three we just mentioned in the United States because at least he had worked Memphis and Texas and Florida. In 1984, again,

he was going to try to become Baba's junior heavyweight star at that point, but wasn't it by 85 when he'd blown his knees and quit for a few years?

Yeah, I think it was somewhere around that period of time. He was gone for a little while, yeah.
But he's another what the fuck because then he comes back and

everything goes insane for a couple years until it melts down.

Here's an interesting name, Jim. He would turn 27 in August,

Gino Hernandez,

biggest push of his life at 84, wasn't it? In Dallas, certainly. Yeah.

I mean, he's got to at least be a question mark. It's just getting so crowded.
Let me put Gino here as a question mark. But yeah, I mean, he had been a teenage phenom.
He was the U.S. champion.

In Detroit, didn't the Sheik put the belt on him? Or at least he was working with the Sheik for it when he was 18, 19,

been a star in Houston.

The run with he and Chris Adams against the Von Ericks in Dallas, which was going on at that point or about to go on. About to start, but you know, he returned at Texas Stadium.

That was his return to wrestling after his sabbatical.

And that's what, May of 84.

So from then on, he had a pretty good-sized push. And, you know, one of the...

either the American, I guess he was the Americas champion, I believe, or it would have been. American.

Not America. America's was Los Angeles.
American was Dallas. But he held something there, so he got a good push.
Jim, another interesting name. He would turn 29 in November.

And in 1984, he would be both King Kong Bundy and Boom Boom Bundy.

Bundy.

Bundy, you big fat piece of shit.

We bring in here, we bring guys in to get you over. And what do you do? You dumb yourself right out of position.

But that's Bundy had worked mid-South in what, 83

and was, had already main evented in Texas. They,

what was the name he used when they brought him into Georgia in 82? Crippler Chris Cannon.

And he had hair.

But he was 85 would be the run with he and Hogan.

In 84, he was just starting up there. Was he not? How? Oh, no, he didn't even get up there until early 85.
84, he worked

AWA, worked Memphis. He was a part of that whole thing with him and Rick Rood against Lawler and Randy Sachs.
That's right. I forgot because we were gone.
He came in afterwards.

Boy, if it was 85,

he'd have to get a check mark. Does he get a question mark here because he's up and coming, but he hadn't,

it'd only been a couple of years. He just doesn't have the track record with some of these other guys?

I don't know. He's an interesting name.
Again, it's one of those ones until you see it there. You don't think of him as being in in his 20s in 1984, but he would fit.
I don't know.

I don't know. We could return to that one.
Let me make a note here. Bundy.

Bundy.

Jim at 28 years old. He would win the world championship in 1984.

Rick Martell. God damn it.

Here's another guy in his 20s that's winning a major world championship this year. How can he not get a check? He had

worked everywhere from Canada to the Pacific Northwest to

fucking the AWA and WWW or WWF. Him and Tony Guerrero were tag champions.
WWF, he and Garrea had already been tagged champions before the 1984 expansion. He's got to get it.

Same thing as Kerry von Erich, right?

And we just talked about Martell was one of the better in-ring workers in the business. So

he won the AWA title. Carrie won the NWA title.
He's got to get a check. I think the only thing that kind of stains his 1984 and maybe even his 1985 is his haircut.

I mean, that's the worst thing about Rick Martell in those years. But, Jim, back to this list here, a Rick Martell tag team partner in the future, 26 years old, Tom Zink.

Boy, howdy.

Yeah, Tom, sorry. It's a little crowded in the club tonight.
Maybe come back tomorrow. He just, he may have been doing a few things at that point, but not much.
And

he wasn't ever really going to be put in a mover and shaker position.

This next one was a surprise for me. I didn't know he was still in his 20s.

At 29 years old, he would turn 29 in June. Dr.
D. David Schultz.

I

first saw David Schultz wrestle when he was 20 years old.

And

he didn't look as fearsome and intimidating as he does to the, you know, his modern look to most people,

but he still looked like some kind of fucking guy you probably don't want to piss off.

I mean,

Schultz had already been used in the Tennessee territories

since 76. He and

Dennis Condry were a team. He and Bill Ashe were a team.
He and Dutch Mantel were a team.

He'd been tag team champions both for Gulis' office, for Jarrett's office, over in Southeastern Championship Wrestling in Knoxville. I believe at that point he had also worked.

Didn't he have a run in Florida at one point, early 80s? I'm not sure. Oh, I don't know.
I know that he, along with Condry and... Phil Iggerson went to Nova Scotia for that fucking Al Zink

in 77 because Schultz is the one that saved their life when they started a riot, Phil and Dennis, and the cops turned on them.

And here came Schultz with out of the locker room with a goddamn hockey stick, a hockey arena, spinning it like a helicopter blade, made a path for them, came to the ring, got them, and took them back.

They grabbed their bags, got in the car, went straight to the airport. They were in the territory for two fucking weeks and came back to Tennessee.

Anyway,

Phil and Dennis were working with Ricky and Robert Gibson. Gibson.
That was Robert Gibson's first

booking trip out of the country to go to Canada. And their fucking opponents left after two weeks because they started too many riots.

Schultz in 84 was

still in the, well, he had just switched with Hogan. He was in WWF the entire year of 1984.
He had, that was his year. And then March 85 was WrestleMania.

And that was also when he slapped the shit out of Stossel.

So Schultz at least gets a question mark here. And he'd worked Calgary

for quite some time,

and apparently was one of the people that Dynamite Kid didn't fuck with.

So he's at least got to be a question mark at this point because he's now working for the WWF against all of top names, including Hogan, who brought him there specifically.

And he was aligned to Roddy Piper, big push right out of the gate.

Jim, 29 years old, former member of the New York Dolls, Rick McGraw.

Good lord.

It's just too crowded, isn't it? Poor Rick.

And he wouldn't,

he'd die in, what, two years? 85.

Shit, one year. Yeah.
So, yeah.

Unfortunately. Well, look at the next name.
The next name, also 29 years old, or returned 29 in 1984,

Jay Youngblood.

And when did he die? What year? I think 85, also, right?

Yeah.

There's a guy. He and Steamboat and Slaughter and Cernodle in Greensboro drew the all-time

biggest crowd ever to try to see a wrestling match in the city of Greensboro at that point. They shut the fucking interstate.
They turned thousands of people away from the Coliseum. In 1983,

this is 1984.

He's starting to become

somewhat unreliable. I guess that was the problem with him and Steamboat.
It was completely different

personality in terms of that. And

Youngblood had died in 85. So you can't, unfortunately, put him on this list.
He showed up in Mid-South for, I don't even know if it was a month, but he was there in 84, briefly.

You know what? You're exactly right.

And I don't even know if it was a month. I don't know what, I don't remember what happened or if we ever knew.
He might have just left.

Well, Jim, also on this list, 24 years old, Brett Wayne Sawyer.

Well, he wasn't an asshole like his brother. He was actually a nice guy.
The problem was he didn't get anything from his brother except the name because whereas Buzz Sawyer was

a goddamn genetic freak that Brock Lesnar would envy in terms of the athletic shit that he could do and the fucking indestructibility of him and the fact that he could

master every goddamn wrestling move like a lightweight. Poor Brett was just a pudgy younger brother.

And he couldn't really talk and he didn't have a physique and

his work was okay, but so was a lot of people's.

But he was a lot nicer than Buzz.

Jim, at 24 years old, your good friend Bobby Fulton.

Boy, howdy.

1984, the Fantastics. That was their.

Bobby and Terry Taylor had been the Fantastic ones in Georgia in the summer of 83, briefly.

But then when Dundee brought

Bobby and Tommy Rogers in to be the Fantastics in Louisiana in 1984, that was their first main event run.

We worked with them for the Mid-South Belts, and they went to Dallas world-class and became,

who'd you say, Chris Adams was the most popular babyface except for the Von Ericks in 84.

The Fantastics were in 85. And from looking at them,

I think being in the buildings,

In some cases, in some places, they were more popular than the Von Ericks to the fans there just because they were the regular fans and it was something different.

The Von Ericks were still bigger draws. I'm not saying that.
But those people loved the Fantastics because somebody else got pushed besides the kids.

And we should mention also while we're talking about Bobby Fulton, Tommy Rogers, 23 years old.

Yes, and

that's the thing. They're 23.
Bobby would turn 24 in 84.

Tommy would turn 23.

And they're just getting started. So I think their question marks,

because they weren't as revolutionary as the rock and roll, since they came right after.

But within a couple of years, not only would they be going to Japan four or five times a year, but they'd be working in

the

Crockett's territory against us, as well as Mid-South against the sheepherders, that big program. So for all in their 20s.

Yeah, all in their 20s.

Their entire 20s was the team.

Well, Jim, also on this list, someone I know you saw a lot of, at least on tape, 28 years old. Yes.
Kuniyaki Kobayashi.

I never went in person, but.

Fucking Kobayashi, again,

the matches with Tiger Mask and the junior heavyweight division over there, Inoki, that was Inoki's calling card for about a three or four year period there.

Tremendous worker. I can't judge him

with these other guys because he wasn't featured in main events.

He was the junior heavyweight division for Inoki was popular, but he wasn't like featured in main events and various markets that we have records on. And

what's the promo situation? We don't know. It's apples and oranges.
But he was a tremendous talent that shows that a lot of the major names in Japan were still young.

Well, Jim, looking at Mexico briefly, not that I expect you to be too familiar with some of these names, but El Gio del Santo, 21 years old.

Well, I think I've heard of him. Negro Casas.
Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
Well, I was going to say.

Jijo del Santo, he was 21 years old then.

He's just now having his goddamn retirement match in Mexico City, the last one, apparently.

But as a major worldwide name and because of his family relationship,

yes, he deserves a check on the list, but

he's still a different animal than some of the others we're comparing. Negro Casas.
That's right. One of the best in-ring workers anywhere.

Negro Casas could do lucha,

but also could actually work work with people where you didn't go, what the fuck is going on here? They're just fucking tumbling.

He was a

multi-style superstar.

A couple more names that were in their 20s. Atlantis was 22 years old, and MS-1 was 28 years old.

I actually only remember one of his kids, MS-13. That's not one of his kids.
Not sure about that.

But Atlantis also would be one of the top names in the last 40 years of Lucha, and he was 24 or 22 years old, rather.

So, yeah, Mexico was in pretty good shape with young guys. Jim, I'll give you both of these names together, although they're quite separate.
You would see one a few years earlier in Memphis.

At 24 years old, Jacques Rougeau. And at 29 years old, Raymond Rouge.

Ray Rouge was a tremendous worker in the ring. He came first because he was the older brother and drew more money

in Montreal when that was still,

you know, back in the territory days. And was Ray Rougeau was known more

than Jacques was because he had had more publicity. Jacques came along when he came into Memphis in 1982.
So he was 21 years old because this was spring of 82.

And

they brought him in as a babyface.

And I mean, you know, he was good at that point, but he's still only in his early 20s. But I'll never forget, I heard the story in the locker room.

After Memphis TV, I guess they're going to go to Nashville. And Jacques new in the territory.
Somehow he ends up in the car

with Lawler and whoever they were riding with. And Lawler's a booker at the time, right?

And some way or another, they're talking.

And I can't remember what brought it up, but Jacques, whether he made a pitch to do something with him or let him do this or that while he's in the car with Lawler, the booker, Lawler, okay.

And Jacques said to him, because this was the quote that went around, what's the matter, big boy? You afraid I'm going to get over you?

And it spread like wildfire that this fucking goofy French Canadian 20-year-old fucking kid had just told lie, wasn't he afraid I'm going to get over you in Memphis?

So

he was so annoying that Lawler switched him fucking heel.

He said that personality and that accent and everything, just it's a natural heel. He just annoyed everybody.
So he switched him heel.

And then

that's when guys were starting to use music and Lawler had music.

The fabulous ones, well, they weren't around yet, but a few people had music, not everybody.

Jacques Rougeau wanted music. No, you're not a top.
Yeah, you don't get to music. He brought his own boom box.

He brought his own boom box. He would carry it to the ring in the arena with it turned up as loud as he could.
Dirty laundry.

And it was, and it got so much heat that they kept it as part of a rock and roll Jacques Rouge.

And they kept it as part of his gimmick. They didn't play the music in the arena.
He carried the fucking giant boom box.

Did he get along

when they teamed up?

I don't know, but it seems like that something about either one of those two would have probably irked the other one.

Well, Jim, only a few more names here on the list: 24 years old, Brian Adias.

Thank you, Brian, for coming. You get a Constellation Prize.
Also, 24 years old, Kelly Konisky.

I really liked Kelly. He was a nice guy.
He was with us in Dallas, Dallas

and

he was one of those guys that just probably

came along too late because he looked

a lot like his dad. His dad had the buzz crew cut and no knee pad, boots and tights type of wrestler.

And Kelly just didn't have any

particular look to him or gimmick or anything like that. But also, he had just started.
He didn't really

get a chance to develop too much, and then the territories were gone. And I think he got into

some line of business. And his brother, Nick, worked

a couple of years shortly after that. Nick had some hair.

Jim, at 27 years old, Johnny Mantel.

All right.

Hey, well,

I mean,

thanks for coming, Johnny.

Yeah. I will give you both of these names together, although, again, very different careers.

That 26-year-old Lynn Denton and the 24-year-old Tony Anthony, the grapplers and the dirty white boys.

Well, and Lynn Denton, of course, still to this day is synonymous with the name the grappler. Lynn

started working as the grappler. I think he might have, did he start in Southwest down in San Antonio? I know he had a run there.

Maybe they both did. I think it was.
Mid-South. It was mid-South as the grappler.

And

then Lynn kept the grappler before, you know, and was a booker and top guy in Portland for Don Owen and still lives out there to this day.

Where Tony Anthony came in is Tony's from Knoxville and he had kind of broken in. And

I can't remember again, was it Southwest or was it Memphis first? And then they went down there, but

they did a grap, the grapplers tag team. I know they were together in Memphis in

83 before I left there. And

then I think, didn't they unmask them? And they became the dirty white boys briefly. Then Lynn went back to.
being the grappler and Tony stuck with the dirty white boy.

Basic gist of the thing. And

I, you know,

I don't know in this company for this list in 1984, you could put either guy on it, although

they both prospered later on.

Jim 25 years old.

Faxon Tim Horner.

Faxon Tim Horner.

And his fake white lightning bolt.

Yeah,

I mean,

it was tim and it was 1984 and look at the names that we've just gone through and one final name jim and apologies to anyone who's going to cry and complain about no all-japan women names on here i apologize i had limited time but 27 years old leilani kai

i'm i'm glad you put her on here because

lani was i think everybody has kind of

Well, I say everybody.

There's kids that never saw her, but I think anybody who's got a grip on the 80s female wrestling scene, everybody pretty much thought Lonnie was the best worker of the bunch up.

And also, she loved the business. She was very dedicated.
You can't use

the same criteria that we were using for any of the guys, for any girls in the 80s, because except for Wendy.

because of the unique situation with Cindy Lauper and Vince and the whole thing. none of the girls were put in money-drawn positions.
But Leilani, along with Judy Martin,

were kind of considered the two girls at that point in time that were the best workers of the bunch in the United States.

Well, with that, Jim,

that is a list of many of the wrestling stars, the regular employed wrestlers of 1984.

Incredible talent in their 20s, already

headlining big buildings, making major television shows,

had programs that people are still doing documentaries about.

And that's just the guys in their 20s. Because

I hate to be a spoiler, but the list of the guys in their 30s is longer.

Well, again, we're at an interesting time now.

A lot of the top stars appear to be in their early to mid-40s. A lot of guys are still active in their 50s.

the 30s there may not be as many stars as there used to be in the 20s when we did that list

there were a few obvious ones braun breaker rhea ripley mjf

and then there were a lot of names where like we said at the top of this

they wouldn't have even got anywhere near the list in 1984.

we

have all these question marks and they're all incredible candidates and we have a list of no-brainers.

And when we get into the 30s, not to play spoiler anything, but we're going to have to deal with the likes of the Ric Flair's, Dusty Rhodes's, Andre the Giants

type of fucking names that are still in their 30s.

Well,

yeah.

We will return shortly after this short commercial timeout.

You know, Brian, as I look back, I see all those names. They were bright-eyed.
They were bushy-tailed. They're in their 20s.

They're a bunch of youths. Just a bunch of youths just beginning their lives.
But

a lot of them, unfortunately, didn't have a good backup plan,

didn't have something to fall back on when they got out of the wrestling business. And as a result of that, met with some misery.

Can you imagine if they'd all started thinking, what am I going to do after wrestling?

I know I'm going to have Shopify build me a business, a website, and a marketing team, and a commerce expert that can help me sell everything from cookies to fucking auto parts

on the internet that hadn't been invented yet. Maybe that's the problem.
Well, now

we've got the capability and ability, Brian, now that we've got an internet to go with Shopify and make money, whereas you didn't have before.

So you should always take advantage of these modern space age technologies while they exist. And if the people out there go to shopify.com slash JCE, they will see in front of them the promised land.

Shopify can build your website, run your website, market your product, get your brand name out, take all the money and give you some of it.

If you're ready to sell, well, and you need money and you're ready for Shopify.

And how desperate are you, ladies and gentlemen, you want to start right now? Well, they can start you right now with a $1 a month trial period.

That's what they'll do, so that they will show you all the services they can provide for you and they'll get you hooked. And then you got Shopify on your back.

You're not going to be able to do anything without them.

Brian, Shopify is one of the safest addictions you can have because that means that you're addicted to money,

the mean green stuff,

The ching, I should say, of commercial commerce, of cash going into a box. Ching-a-ling-a-ling.

Shopify.com slash JCE. Sign up for a $1 a month trial period.
Whether you're in your 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, or even the 60s, you can still make some money.

Unlike all of us back in the dark ages of the 80s when they didn't have an internet. Shopify.com slash JCE.

That's right, Jim. They power our online store and they can power yours.
We trust them. You can too.

Shopify.com slash JCE.

You just like to say power our

running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.
One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odo comes in.
Odo is the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch.
So why not you? Try Odu for free at odu.com. That's odoo.com.

All right, Jim, you know what that means. It's time to get serious.

We're back here with the show.

Yes, that'll make you stand up and take some notice. That's attention-getting

serious music. I'm moving some papers around here.
Jim, before we move on,

so we went through, and I apologize for the buzzing behind me, the neighbors doing their fall leaf pickup.

Yeah,

we got your list. Let's go over real quick the ones that you said would absolutely be on your list of the top 20 in their 20s in 1984.

Well, here, count along with me because I'm going to go down through the list of check marks and you just count how many that is. Okay.

Barry Wyndham,

Bret Hart,

Dynamite Kid,

Terry Gordy,

Wendy Richter,

Brad Armstrong. That was a check and a question mark, but nevertheless.

Bobby Eaton, Buddy Landell,

Chris Adams.

Dr. Death was a check and a question mark, just because of the timing.
He was still very early in his career.

carrie von Erich Kevin von Erich Michael Hayes Magnum TA

Robert Gibson Hawk and Animal of the Road Warriors Ricky Morton

and Rick Martell

those

are all the absolute check marks we gave how many was that

I'm counting them now two that were on the question mark list Brad Armstrong and Dr. Death And in terms of people, you had

a check and a question mark, and other people we gave question marks. So, what does that mean? You just read them off.
Did they get included on this list in your eyes, or are they not on the list yet?

How many we got?

How many of you have

a question mark before I even tell you that? No, they were.

I gave them a check, and then I said, well, wait a minute, we got a lot of checks on some of these. Maybe we ought to have a question mark.

How many checks we got there? 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16. 17.

Although,

again, we're counting the rock and roll and the Road Warriors as four people as opposed to two teams.

Well, just to open the field up a little bit more and to correct that loophole, why don't you combinate them so we've only taken up two spots because we've still got more question marks?

Because that's how the, there was so much talent, as you will recall from when we just talked about it,

that, you know, we were like, geez, we don't know if we're going to be able to narrow it it down. So now we have a few question marks.
All right. So,

you want to go back over the question marks? Let's go over the question marks. We have 15 definites, not counting Dr.
Death and Brad Armstrong, who will read off with this question mark list.

Five open spots on your list:

Buzz Sawyer,

Davey Boy Smith, Mike Ratunda,

Arne Anderson,

hold on here, Hercules Hernandez,

Jake Roberts,

one man gang,

Gino Hernandez,

David Schultz,

Bobby Fulton,

Tommy Rogers,

and King Kong Bunde.

What a crew in their 20s in the mainstream wrestling business.

And in terms of early 20s, Davey Boy Smith, 22, Brad Armstrong, 22, Dr. Death, 24, One Man Gang, 24, The Fantastics, 22 and 24.

So how many

question marks do we have there? I'm going to count the Fantastics as one for this exercise. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14.

Again, with Dr. Death and Brad Armstrong.

So, in that case, why don't we just make it the top 34 in their 20s?

That takes a little bit of the fun out of it.

I mean, really, how can

I guess for the five definite picks that would take us to 20,

you might have to

actually, I think we mentioned Buzz Sawyer's career was on the way down. He had gotten as hot as he was going to get.
He was 25. That still blows my mind that he was only 25 years old at that point.

And I mean, he would be

good in the ring in Mid-South the year after that, but he wouldn't draw any money.

And world-class, I mean, they didn't make a lot of money, I don't think, but him and Matt Bourne managed by Percy Pringle.

I think you got to put Arn Anderson on the list.

I think you have to put Davey Boy on the list because

84 was the year of the start of the national bulldogs.

Hennig, Kurt Hennig.

Did I even say him a minute ago? I don't remember saying his name. Well, he's on the list on the question mark list.
I thought you said his name. Yes, he's on the question mark list.

How are we narrowing this down? Nikita Koloff, for fuck's sake. He's not on the question mark list.

Then I missed him because he's a question mark also. Well, no, we said that if it was 85, he would certainly be on the list, but it's 85.
I know, but

these names,

they had names then, Brian.

I don't know.

Why don't we just pick it out of a fucking one of those tumblers like they use for the raffles? Boy, you're really making this difficult. You really don't want to just narrow this down.

I don't know how to. I don't know what you don't.
Okay, look, with Davy Boy, Arne, and Kurt Hennig,

we now have 18. There are two open spots.

Two.

Schultz, the 84 was the best year Schultz was going to have for the rest of his career. So David Schultz.
Interesting.

And he'd already been a main event guy for however long.

I mean,

Bundy wouldn't hit big till the next year for all the reasons that we talked about when we went over this. But

oh boy.

I think so

with Arn, with Hercules?

There's room for Herc now

because he was about as good as he was going to get that year.

He would be bigger nationally, but he'd never be better in the ring.

Well, there it is. There's 20.

There you go. Those are your top 20 in their 20s for 1984, not counting managers, of course.

Well, of course not.

Hey,

there's something.

No, I'm just, I was sitting up in my chair and it takes me a while because I'm old.

What

that's what was different about me.

Think about this. What were the ages of every other major mainstream manager in the business in 1984?

Jimmy Hart looked like one of the younger ones and he was like 40, right?

Jimmy Hart,

I'm trying to do the math. Jimmy Hart is 19 years older than me.

So he is currently somewhere

in a neighborhood of 82 years old, 83. I'm 64.
Jesus Christ. Wow.

So he was around 40 when you started.

So 40, 41 years ago.

He would have been 41, let's say, just for the sake of argument.

Akbar. Yeah.
Akbar was Akbar 50. That was the manager that the Mid-South fans were used to.
Gary Hart

was definitely in his 40s.

Gary always looked a little older because of his

sinister, you know, aura.

JJ

was

younger than he looked.

But that's a good question. How old was JJ in 1984? Hold on.
J.J. Dillon.

He was born in 1942. So he would have been 42.

Okay.

Need I talk about the, you know, the managers in the WWF. Blassey was still there.
Freddie was born in the 19 teens.

Wizard had just passed away. Albano

was born in the 30s.

I believe.

Lou Albano was born.

This is not Lou Albano, some other guy came. Who the hell is this guy?

Albano Carisi, an Italian singer. Hold on.

Who did he ever beat? What the hell? Lou Albano was born 1933, Rome, Italy.

Okay.

So help me some more managers.

1984 managers. Paul Jones.

Paul Jones was he dated Janice Joplin in fucking high school.

All right.

1984.

Jeff Walton. Tux Newman.

Okay.

He was working in the, I don't know his age off the top of my head, but he was working in the Los Angeles office in the 60s.

He had to be able to drive. I have another young manager, although people wouldn't really know who he was for another two years or so.
Slick in Kansas City.

How old was he? He had to be in his early 20s, right? No, come on now. Hold on now.
Hold on, Mises. Google that, cowboy.
Slick.

I better specify Slick WWE.

Sway, you might get some kind of lube commercial.

He was born in 1957.

Okay, so he was 27. He was four years older than me.

Teddy Long was still a referee. He wouldn't start managing until 89.
But how old was he? Just for well, remember this? Teddy had this was Teddy's second career. Teddy used to work for James Brown.

Remember, Teddy is.

I don't want to.

Well, it's common knowledge, but I think he's in his late 70s now, isn't he?

Google Teddy, too.

Because Teddy just is timeless. Well, I'm doing that.
40 years old in 84, Bobby Heenan.

There you go.

How did we not mention Bobby first in 1984, for fuck's sake?

Teddy Long was born in 1947.

Boom.

So he was 37 in 1984, and he hadn't even started managing yet.

And somebody's going to say Heyman and Heyman didn't start till the following year or was it 85 or 86?

Depends on what you consider his start, either 85 or 86. Yeah,

but nevertheless, um,

I mean, I was half the age of every other manager in the fucking business,

so that's why the you know, it's it stood out to the people because they were used to

the ex-wrestler, crusty old managers. And here comes this fucking prick,

it was perfect. Well, there it is: the top 20 in their 20s for 1984.

We shall return soon with more

age talk here on this podcast. Yes, Nick's, we're going to do the top people that were 84 in the 1920s.
Stay tuned for that. Once again, I apologize for the buzzing on this special episode behind me.

It's fucking November. Jesus.
All right, Jim. Let's play some guest the program.
Guest the program, apologize. Oh, I love you.

I love doing this. We've been doing this lately, and I'm getting so much practice.
I'm getting better.

It's a popular game here on the show where we go through programs in my collection, usually ones I have to file away.

And Jim, based on information given to him, usually the card, will guess as much information as he can. The date, the locale, the temperature, the time.
the referees. All right now.

Let me start you with one. We're not doing the weather.

So I got some very interesting ones here today. Let's start with.

Not that one. Let's start with

this one.

Wow.

I'm just doing the hum. Well, thank you.
That's very helpful.

All right, Jim. The first one.

I'm going to read you the names written in for the competitors who are not there without naming.

Well, I'm not going to name one.

What are you saying? You're going to read me the names without naming anybody. No, there are what you're saying.

There are notes in the program where the people who were not on the card who weren't there are crossed out, and other names are written in for who actually wrestled.

All right, so we'll. Okay, okay, I got you.
So, so, what are you giving me now? Well, let's go through the card here. Okay.

Matt Gibson

versus Frank Valois.

Good lord.

The Great Mephisto

vs. Butcher Branigan.

A special one-fall 30-minute time limit handicap match. Andre the Giant vs.
Ramon Lopez and Leo Seitz.

The semifinal, two out of three falls, 45-minute time limit. Written in Dale Lewis

vs. Pete Sanchez.

And the main event, two out of three falls, 60-minute time limit. Ivan Potsky versus Blackjack Mulligan.

Okay.

This is not what you would expect.

I am going to say, well, let me go through the card. Frank Valois, obviously,

was the handler for the early years of Andre the Giant.

And so him being on the card

makes sense because Andre's on it later. The great Mephisto against Butcher Branagan,

and then Andre following in a handicap match. Well, Butcher Branigan had a run in the WWWF, but Mephisto didn't.
And

with Andre being in a handicap match against

less than stellar opponents, that indicates to me this is early Andre touring.

Val Waz with him. He's just in a handicap match.
They didn't need to book him against any name because people just wanted to see him the first time.

Professor Dale Lewis and Pete Sanchez.

Again,

Pete Sanchez, if I'm not mistaken, was a noted undercard guy in the Northeast,

which is why I think you're trying to fuck with me here,

but Dale Lewis wasn't.

And Ivan Putsky and Blackjack Mulligan were both on top in the state of Texas in the mid-70s.

And so, therefore,

I would say that this is the Dallas Sportatorium.

And the only thing I'm waffling about is whether it's 1974 or 1975. And I'm going to say,

fuck, I can't remember when the Blackjacks first went to the WWWF.

It's 1974.

The date, Monday, December 3rd, 1973.

Ah!

The Northside Coliseum, Fort Worth, Texas. Fort Worth, Texas, not Dallas, but Fort Worth.
But I missed it by what, 21 days of being 1975. And a few miles.
That's right.

Notice the pizza and Frito pie concessions have been opened.

Go down the ramp on the west side. Also, beer and soft drinks.

Run, do you know you're a Yankee northern son of a bitch?

Do you know what a Frito pie is? I've never heard of a Frito pie before. No.

They take the individual snack bag of Fritos, the plastic, well, it used to be a nice, you know,

even a small bag of Fritos used to be nice size.

I'm not talking about something now like the size of a baseball, but the plastic sack of the Fritos, and they fucking pull it open and they dump a goddamn...

big old spoonful of chili in there and maybe sprinkle some cheese on it and stick a spoon in it and sell it to you.

That's a Frito pie, baby. Some interesting advertising here.
Santaland, Christmas 1973.

Thrill your child with a personal letter from Santa.

Truly a beautiful, ever-so-welcome thought.

Send $1,

money order or check with each child's name and address. Mail early, satisfaction guaranteed.
Offer good until December 15th, 1973.

Santa has a letter that all parents will respect.

Send $1 check or money order to Santa land. It's a P.O.
box in Irving, Texas. Did you ever get a letter from Santa when you were a kid? From Irving, Texas? No.

Wait, I know.

I've got...

No, I ain't shitting you. I've got it here over in

my dad's old desk in the corner of the office over there where I have some of my childhood papers. I actually,

you got a letter. I think it's 1964.
I can't remember, but you got a letter with the North Pole

cancellation. What's the word I'm searching for? Boom.
They stamped the stamp. They canceled the stamp.
It says North Pole, Alaska, and it's on stationary with snowflakes and reindeer.

And Santa tells you you've been a nice little child.

One more thing to ask you about in this program because I don't know anything about it. I told you that there were a couple of names written in.

Dale Lewis was written in for Jose Lithario, which thank God, that would have been a giveaway, in a sense, even though you got it. Or came close.

Matt Gibson

was written in for Ricky Gibson.

And there's a photo of Ricky Gibson here. And it says Matt Gibson wants match with Lewis.

Matt Gibson stormed into the Northside Coliseum last week and won over the fans with his exciting wrestling and his victory over Blackie Gordman.

Matt, the older brother of another sensation to hit Fort Worth, Ricky,

came to Texas to avenge an injury to his younger brother. Ricky was scheduled to wrestle last week, but Matt replaced him since Ricky's knee injury was worse than expected.

Let me stop there. Crazy to read about his knee injury in 73.

Well, that's, you know, Ricky Gibson already at that point was just doing such athletic shit that, you know, he was bound to get hurt sooner or later. Do you know who Matt Gibson would have been?

I remember a Matt Gibson working shows in the mid-70s in the southern United States, but I don't, I didn't know that he was ever billed as a brother of Ricky Gibson.

It could be that they had brought Ricky in

from Alabama to push him as a young babyface. He hurt his knee and went home.
And they said, oh, we've already got this in the Gibson thing. So they made him a brother.

That may be how he got started, but i don't know that matt ever went anywhere and it wasn't until

come to think of it

it was like april-ish april or may of 74 that ricky gibson came into the memphis territory and

immediately got over and did the program with lawler for the Southern Junior heavyweight title, as it was called then, that involved Fargo and led to the Fargo-Lawler matches of 74.

So Ricky Gibson,

five, six months after that program that you just read, would be on top with Lawler in the Midsouth Coliseum on sellouts, drawing over 11,000 people.

And he won the belt and traded it back and forth with Lawler.

So those were the first live

Lawler matches, practically, that I saw was Ricky Gibson and it was just incredible.

And you think this may have been one of those early examples of the guy getting the push gets hurt, and all of a sudden the next week, you know, the Tonga kid shows up, or, you know, my brother got hurt.

Stella May shows up. Yeah,

you're not going to get away with what you did to my brother, who has long hair just like me.

All right, Jim, let's go to our next card here.

I'm going to not tell you the opening match. I'm going to leave it off.
That'll be the one match not told to you.

Hans Schmidt

versus Tony Nero.

The big O,

and then in parentheses, because he's been unmasked. Mike Davis

versus Buddy Fuller.

Wait, what now? The big O Mike Davis versus Buddy Fuller because he was the big O, but he was unmasked, and now he is Mike Davis.

Okay.

Tag Team match: The Great Malenko and Hans Mortier

versus Joe Scarpa and King Louis Tillet.

And finally,

Texas Tornado match, six-man tag team match, all six men in the ring at the same time.

Cyclone Negro,

the Gladiator, and Jack Briscoe versus the Medics

and the Good Doctor.

Okay.

Um,

Boy, howdy, Hans Schmidt stands out on that card like a spare prick at the wedding, as Adrian Street would say.

Against Tony Nero, it sounded like we were in the marigold arena in Chicago or something at some, you know, some point in the 50s.

But then

the reason why I clarified the big O, he had been the masked big O, because Big O, obviously, was Bob Orton Sr.'s nickname.

And because of the

location that I believe we're probably in, it would be impossible that it could have been Bob Orton Sr., but Mike Davis was the real name of the future

brute/slash Bugsy McGraw.

Buddy Fuller, obviously, a southern legend, son of Roy Welch, father of Ron and Robert Fuller, member of the Welch family,

which,

again, because of where we are is probably pertinent.

The great Malenko, Boris Malenko, and Hans Mortier

against Jay Scarpa and Louis Tillet,

with the exception that Mortier is probably more known for his run in the Northeast with the weird headgear, but Malenko, Scarpa, and Tillet

are

Florida legends in this time period.

And

a Texas tornado six-man with Cyclone Negro, who was used heavily in Florida, the Gladiator, who,

goddammit, I ought to know who that is, and I can't call his name. And Jack Briscoe,

against the medics and the good doctor,

kind of rounds out that this is the state of Florida.

Again, you know, I don't know whether it's Miami or Tampa. I'm going to quit picking St.
Petersburg. That's where all the big shows happen.
But this was the era before

they were probably running the St. Petersburg Civic Center, a simpler time.

Could this have been

in 1971 in the Miami Beach Convention Center?

Jim, we are in the Miami Beach Auditorium. Oh!

Wednesday, May 7th,

1969.

Yeah!

This is the ringside.

I would have gone earlier if I'd have studied more on it, but I didn't want to waste everybody's time. Jim, here are the ticket prices.
Ringside, $4, Reserve, $3,

General Admission, $2,

and Children, $1.

Championship Wrestling from Florida with Gordon Soli is seen each Saturday, 2:30 to 3:30 p.m.

WLBW-TV, ABC,

in color, channel 10.

Also, listen to this. Hey, 1969 in color.
I wonder if those tapes are locked up in the vault up in the mountain for the WWE. You know, there's still wrestling shows, or I say they are still.

There were still wrestling shows in black and white, like into the 70s, right? Not even if you had a black and white set, just they were filmed in black and white. Yeah, and

I'm not sure, honestly, when

that

it was pretty standard that everything in every local station was in color, but you can find examples of local news and a few, you know, film clips that are still available of wrestling from the early 70s that are in black and white.

But by

69 or 70, I think almost everybody would have made the change. Hey, listen to this.

Listen to tonight's live broadcast on radio station WEDR 99.1 FM.

Also Sunday, 3.30 to 5.30 p.m.

Were they broadcasting the Miami Beach shows? Like the audio of them?

Possibly. Wow.

I don't know. It's a two-hour block.

Well, there it is, Miami. Well, what else did they have to do on Sunday afternoon?

I'll tell you, Brian, we may guess programs on the air here, but a lot of people this time of year are guessing what kind of present they ought to give to people.

Have you been guessing what you should give three or four of the people of the five people in the world that you care about? Have you been wondering about that?

I've been buying all five of those people gifts for the record.

But you have to guess, and you don't know until you see their face, whether it's a long, droopy face, like, oh, this fucking shit, or whether it's real happiness, you never know.

Well, the guesswork can be completely eliminated from your gift giving because we got the guarantee. We got the surefire.

We got the one that's going to put a smile on everybody's face because it's their own face and faces of people that they like next to their face.

It's a picture frame from Aura Frames, the best-selling Carver matte frames. You get this frame and then you load it with photos.

After downloading the Aura app and connecting it to the Wi-Fi, you get a code. You can shoot the pictures in.
You can send Granny literally hundreds of frame pictures all in one frame.

Let's say she sets it right on the

end of the bed, right there at the table where they're feeding her with a tube and right there in the old folks' home. And she can.

look over and she can see all of her entire life flash before her eyes.

What better way to bring joy to an elderly person who doesn't have much longer on this earth than to remind them of how good they used to look

and how good their family looks now? Again, maybe not. It's an amazing gift.

Maybe not the great gift, a fantastic gift, maybe not the best example, but for anyone in your life or even yourself or your wife or whoever, like I said, anyone in your life.

If you want to give a gift that just keeps on giving because of all the memories, a picture is worth a thousand words what about a thousand pictures and ones that move what about yesterday

go please you're so excited yeah yes i'm so excited that's the best thing you don't have to speak to these people just send them pictures and that way they don't hear from you they just look at you and they can turn you off when they want But you can preload the photos before it ships.

You can personalize your gift. You can share photos and videos.
A gift box is included. Every frame comes pre-packaged in a premium gift box.

And for a limited time, you can save on the perfect gift now by visiting AuraFrames, A-U-R-A frames.com.

And you're going to get $35 off the best-selling Carver Matte frames by using the promo code JCE.

And once again, You can send the pictures to grandmother or regular mother or granddaughter or regular daughter or any family members or friends, just be careful.

Sometimes you might want to be careful about sending a dick pic over to your mother-in-law, but just watch your phone. That's up to you.
Why is that even on your mind? Again, for normal pics to note.

Well, because you know, when you're sending these pictures from your phone, if you happen to take a picture of your penis and you send it to your mother-in-law, she might get the wrong idea.

Now I understand why you don't have a smartphone. Well, there you go, because some people aren't smart enough for smartphones.
Folks, again,

$35

off

right now by going to auraframes.com. Use the promo code JCE.
It is a wonderful gift. Stacey, as I've mentioned,

her mother had already gotten one from her nephew. Now she got one and gave it to her nephew.
And then they're all just sending pictures back and forth. It's a...

It's a dagum drive-in movie in everybody's house. And you can save 35 bucks.

a great deal a great frame a great gift we have them and we love them bought some for gifts as well aura frames one last time jim that promo code jce

what if your data team could be 10 times more productive most teams waste hours switching between fragmented tools rebuilding the same analyses and debugging ai chatbot outputs hex integrates the whole analytics cycle deep analysis self-serve and trusted context in one platform the result faster insights higher trust less tool sprawl.

Transform your data team from a dashboard factory to a strategic insights engine. Join teams from Anthropic, Lovable, Ramp, and 1,500 other customers at hex.ai.

All right, Jim, here's another one:

the opening contest, one fall 20 minutes.

John Cretoria

versus Al Cashe.

The special event, one fall 30 minutes. Brother Frank versus Dennis Clary.

The semi-windup, tag team bout, two out of three falls, 45-minute time limit. Gino Garibaldi and Chick Garibaldi

versus Al Smith and John Smith.

And finally, the main event, Jim, two out of three falls, one hour time limit. Baron Leone

versus Billy Varga.

Holy crap. Alrighty.

I'm not sure of the

Crotoria fellow in the opening contest. Although

Bruiser Bedlam's real name

was

I could never say it either. He spelled it for me.

C-R-O-T-U-R-I-A, I believe,

Crotoria, or something like that. Krotoriu.
There was a U on the end.

I don't know what that means, but nevertheless, Al King Kong Cashi

was a veteran villain in the wrestling business. And wasn't he the guy they picked to have Vern Gagne's first pro match with in Minneapolis? I believe he was.

Brother Frank is Brother Frank Jairs, who was the father of Joe Jares, who wrote the book, Whatever Happened to Gorgeous George, about his father's exploits in the wrestling business, specifically in the old Tennessee and Alabama territory in the 50s, which this is not where that's at.

Dennis Clary,

I'm not sure he ever

gained fame and fortune. Chicken Gino Garibaldi against Al and John Smith.

The Garibaldis we've talked about.

It was a fat. were they all

legitimately related? Or

one was a son, one was a father, but was the other one, was Leo, were they legitimate? No, Leo was the son of Gino. Chick, I'm not sure about.

Chick may have been

a wolf in sheep's clothing. Al and John Smith had beards.
They were twin brothers and they had these long bushy beards, like the Smith brothers' cough drops that were on the stands back in those days.

And that's why they took the name. And they were a heel tag team through the 50s.
And

Baron Leone set the gate record in Los Angeles with

Luthes in the early 50s. And Billy Varga was a Los Angeles mainstay.

and was on a lot of TV shows in the 60s because they all shot in Hollywood.

And so that's where we are here. We are in

Los Angeles, I don't,

or the Southern California Territory, I believe.

The problem is, I have a hard time believing this is an Olympic auditorium card,

but anything's possible. But from

the people on the card,

I would say the year would be 1957,

and we're in Southern California, but not the Olympic Auditorium.

How'd I do? You did pretty good in some parts and almost there in other parts.

It's Long Beach, California, the Long Beach Municipal Auditorium. So you get Southern California.
Okay. Thursday, April 17th,

1952.

Oh,

boy, that was old. So then Frank Jairs had never even been the Southern Junior heavyweight champion for Nick Gulis and Roy Welsh at that point.

Yeah, that was a tough one. Some interesting things here.
They got a, I guess, a little humor section.

She was only a gravedigger's daughter, but you ought to see her lower the beer.

Here's another one. The visitor says.

If you're not up on your funeral

terminology, terminology, you wouldn't even really get that, would you? The visitor says, can you tell me the name of this school? The young man says, sorry, I'm just a football player here.

When he threatened to drive her over a cliff in a taxi, she just laughed. She knew the cab was yellow.

That's stupid.

I'll give a fur muff for a kiss.

What? A fur necklace for a hug.

A fur coat for, and then another person comes in, stop. That's fur enough.

All right, there's a free dance every Saturday night. Veterans use your local VFW club.
You know, the guy, the guy that wrote that, Brian, he was bred in old Kentucky, but he's just a crumb down here.

I guess so, but that's the update here. Also, there's a safety notice for your own protection.
Please do not sit on the back of the seats, as we are not responsible in case of injury.

The seats are not fastened down and topple over very easily.

So there's that program.

All right, Jim, our next one here.

I've heard of

having them on the edge of their seats, but the back of their seats.

The opening contest:

Mickey Doyle and Gene Madrid versus Louis Martinez and Steve Bolus.

The second match, Princess Partlow

versus Betty Nicoli.

Nikolai. Nikolai, excuse me.
I never saw Miss Nikolai. I've only seen her name.
The third match. I've never seen her wrestle, but I had, well, nevertheless.
Her fur muff.

What was it in the other thing? Let's go back to this.

The fourth match, Jim. Rufus R.
Jones versus Hans Schmidt.

Jesus Christ. Hans Schmidt's a time traveler.
He's everywhere. The fifth match for a title I will not name.

The champion Harley Race

versus Dewey Robertson. Ah,

now it becomes more clear. The finale:

an Australian tag team match. Black Jack Lanza and Big Bill Miller versus Jack Briscoe and Pat O'Connor.

And the main event

for

a title I will not name.

The champion Dory Funk Jr.

Yeah. Versus Johnny Valentine.
Two out of three falls. One hour time limit.
Two minute rest period between falls. What a night in the Keel Auditorium.
Or

could it have been the Checker Dome, otherwise known as the Arena?

except for when Ralston Purina got the naming rights.

do they even make

dog food from Ralston Purina anymore? Checkerboard square? I don't know. I know Purina cat chow

from the commercials. Well, so they've gone over to the other side, huh? They've forsaken the dogs and gone over to sympathize with the cats.

I see the way this I guess so, but I'll give it to you because you know what? It's not even a question. You got it.
It's the Keel Auditorium, St. Louis.
But let's talk about it. Well, yes,

let's talk about the day. Well, first of all, going up and down the card, Mickey Doyle,

good friend of Tom Pritchard's, and a would become a Detroit mainstay.

Is the Gene Madrid here Gypsy Joe,

or

would that because I don't know? Uh, Gene Madrid here, I can't

well,

I can't keep track of whether he was Jan Madrid or Gene Madrid or whatever at one point in time, but Luis Martinez,

Arriva, longtime Midwest Hispanic star.

Princess Partlow was Sandy Partlow,

who,

along with Betty Nikolai, were two of Mulah's girls at that point in time.

Rufus R. Jones

was a Central States

babyface icon before he went to the Carolinas or some places in the South where he was seen later on. As I said, Hans Schmitz, every goddamn where.

The title that you didn't want to mention with Harley Race and Dewey Robertson, who would later become the missing link,

was the Central States title, right? That is correct.

And then Lanza and Bill Miller against Jack Briscoe and Pat O'Connor, that told me where we were at. And then

the funk and Valentine confirms it. And this is

got to be during Dory's title reign between 1969 and 1973.

And

I am going to based on my available

borderline mystical knowledge

say that it's 1971

Jim McHill Auditorium St. Louis, Missouri Friday night June 18th 1971

Home run for Jim Cornet

crack boom

Ticket prices, $2, $3, $4, and $5.

And a bargain at twice the price. All right, Jim, our next program here.

Midget match.

Lord Littlebrook versus Bull Brummel.

Wait, how did you say that? Bull Brummel.

Well, it would either be

instead of Bull, Bull Brummel, but it's... Because it's the midget match, I fucked it up.
I'm so bold, Bull Brummel, Bull Brummel.

But actually, no, it would be Bo Brummel, and they fucking fucked it up. The Printers, because that's what the Midget's name was Bo Brummel.
He was a fancy Dan

Bo Brummel character. Obviously, as we've determined, he's known as a lot of different things.

People are calling him all kinds of names. Jimmy tournament match.
One more loss will disqualify Clancy.

Irish Mike Clancy versus George Grant. And I'll tell you,

Irish Mike Clancy has five wins, one loss. George Grant, one win, no loss.

For the World Tag Team Championship, the Fields Brothers, Don and Luke, the champions,

vs. Kenji Shibuya and El Zoro.

And finally,

a tournament match.

One more loss to disqualify either. Tor Yamato with seven wins and one loss versus leap and Larry Shane,

five wins, one loss.

Well,

this is a Welch family territory.

We got that much so far. Little Brook, this is early in his career.
He would go on. Remember, he managed the New Zealand militia and WCW in like 89 or 90 or whatever it was.

And at that point, he had been the booker for the midgets for years at that point. He had taken over from

Littlebrook, was based out of

the Central States, and originally the Midgets had been booked out of Montreal. And when they made the switch, he ended up with it.

George Grant was gorgeous, George Grant, who tried to to make people think he was the original to the point we've talked about it. Where

when he died,

his obituary said he was the original gorgeous George. Irish Mike Clancy was at one point the NWA World Junior Heavyweight Champion, was a top name, especially in the South during this time period.

With the World Tag Team title being

held by Don and Luke Fields, the Fields are cousins of the Welches.

They had a long run

during this time period in the Tennessee territory.

But at the same time, they were also working Alabama when it was separate.

Kenji Shibuya would have been very young at this point, and I'm not sure who Zoro was.

And with the main event, Larry Shane and Tor Yamato. Tor Yamato was the Japanese heel

that Goulis and Welch used quite extensively the few years before

Harold Watanabe

showed up and they made him Tojo Yamamoto because Tori Yamato had been overso big and then Tojo Yamamoto became one of the top three baby faces of their entire

60s and 70s run.

Having said all of that,

it's got to be,

is this a Memphis card in the early end of like 1960 or 61, or is this Birmingham

maybe during the same time period?

I'm going to go with Birmingham, Alabama in

1960,

Jim Birmingham, Alabama. It's the

Southern Wrestler, the official Birmingham Wrestling Program, Monday, September 7th, 1959.

Ah!

All righty. Well, I was still close.
Special, can you find your name?

Several wrestling fans. Most of our fans can't find their way home.
Several wrestling fans' names appear somewhere in this program.

If you can locate yours, bring it to Ringside before tonight's matches are over, and you will receive one silver dollar.

That's a pretty good deal. So, but so basically, if you can, over the next two to three hours, figure out how to read your own fucking name,

we will pay you a dollar.

That's exactly right. Uh, so it seems.
How's this for a headline? New Jap and masked man go for tag battle.

Kenji Shibuya proved last week to be almost as tough as Tori Yamato, much to the disgust of Jap-hating fans.

That's a

hell of a story there.

Well, remember now, 14 years after World War II, things were still not copacetic. And that's

you will find that terminology, and especially because,

again, it wasn't just because the South is known for

their questionable approach to race. Archie Barnard.

Well, but it was the same people running. That's why Jarrett's booking took off in Memphis because he was a new guy.

Gulis and Welch were using the same terminology in 1977 that they'd used in 1947.

Nick was still putting in his newspaper ads in 1978, see the nation's top colored mat star. Oh, my God.

I swear to God, I've got posters. That's crazy.
I got posters. And so because he didn't know any better, but

that was the terminology that all the promoters used. And when the guy had been running the business for 40 years, that's what you got.
A couple other interesting things in here.

By the way, this was a Southern Elimination Tournament round 15.

Sounds like Tony Khan was booking this point in time in 1959.

Live studio matches.

Thrilling live matches are held each Saturday evening at 10:30 p.m.

at WAPI-TV Channel 13.

Free tickets available to all fans by writing Nicholas and Roy Welch. Bankhead Hotel, Birmingham, Alabama.
Include a self-addressed stamped envelope. Every person must have a ticket.

10:30 at night, they were taping live wrestling. That's crazy.
Well,

Eddie Marlon told me in 19 when I started doing TV in 1982,

because we'd come in, you know,

it had been either a late night, the night before a show, and you didn't get back to Memphis until after midnight.

Here we are at 10 o'clock in the morning, we're at the studio, or when you had to leave Nashville and go to TV. You had to leave Nashville at fucking 6 o'clock in the morning to make TV.

And he said, boys, it ain't anywhere like it used to be.

They were so hot in the early 70s where Nick had studio television shows in every one of his major markets, and they were running so many shows and had so many guys being booked to the various places.

Eddie Marlin and Tommy Gilbert, when they were on top in 73 as the babyface early version of the Rock and Roll Express, right? Southern Tag Team Champions, whatever,

they would get up

and they would go to Memphis television from wherever they'd been on Friday night. And then they would drive back from Memphis TV to Nashville.

So that's 200 miles up the interstate where Nick would have a small plane waiting on his like his four top guys or whatever.

And they would then take that plane and fly over the mountain to fucking Chattanooga because Chattanooga and Nashville is only 130 miles, but it was, I don't think they had the interstate finished at that point and the fucking mountains in the way.

But they would fly them to the Chattanooga live TV that was on the air at five o'clock in the studio of Channel 12, I think.

And that would pump that night's matches at the Chattanooga Memorial Auditorium. So they'd go over to the auditorium and do the show in Chattanooga.

And if they were in the main event, they would put it on like second or third. So they could get back in that fucking plane because the Huntsville TV, or was it Huntsville or Birmingham?

Which one was this? This was Birmingham. Was it 10:30 at night?

So they would hop over to Birmingham and make that live fucking TV at Birmingham

and then fly back to goddamn Nashville.

That's just Saturday. It's wild how much live wrestling there was in that territory.
Obviously, you can't see it everywhere, but just how much that territory was producing is amazing.

Well, during the 1973, they had a live studio show in

Memphis, obviously.

Huntsville, I believe, had one. We just know Birmingham did.

Chattanooga, I think Nick was still doing a taping at the TV station in Nashville. And that's when they had Louisville TV for like nine months at that same period of time.

So

there was like... six or seven studio televisions they did every week.

Jim, four cents a day

is all it costs you to have an extension in your own home.

For complete information, call Charles Harrison, has his phone number, phones in pastel colors, white and black,

to fit your needs. So four cents a day, not to feed a starving child, but to get an extension to your phone line in your house.

By the way, last week, A silver dollar was collected by Joanne Kimbrough.

Failing to locate their names were M.A. Handy or Handley, Margaret Ann O'Neill, and Patsy Forrester.

So they did not locate their names.

They couldn't figure it out.

Well, to be fair, it's a fucking four-page program.

Jim, let's get another program here. This one.

The opening event.

Hey, what the hell, folks? It's a holiday weekend. We're just having fun.
The opening event, one fall, 20-minute time. We met Bobby Coleman versus Ray Gilbert.

Special event, one fall, 30-minute time limit. Mad Monty Ledoux

versus Gordon Hessel.

The semifinal event, two out of three falls, 45-minute time limit.

Ray Perret or Ray Perrette. I'm not exactly sure.
P.I. I think it's Perrette.
I believe it's Perrette. Okay.

Versus the mass stranger

from

nowhere.

But weighing 214 pounds. Strangers in the night exchanging clothing.

And Jim, finally, the main event: two out of three falls, 60-minute time limit.

Michelle Leone from Italy, or Baron Michelle Leone, does say Baron here. Baron Michelle Leone

versus Killer Chris Tolis from California.

Well, I don't know about Mr. Coleman and Mr.
Gilbert in the opening match or Gordon Hessel.

Monty Ledue was a name in the West Texas Territory

and actually was an opponent of Dory Funk.

I can't say senior because he didn't bill himself at that as Dory Funk on his first week in the Texas Territory. I have a program with Dory Funk and Monty Ledue in the main event in New Mexico.

Ray Perrette was a

journeyman wrestler that was a star and a featured guy in various places at various points. And the mass stranger, who is from nowhere, is a stranger to me.

And then you got Leonie and Tolos. Are you trying to

Are you trying to do some kind of goddamn little swerve here, fella?

Because

the other show was Long Beach, California with Leone and Varga in 1952. And that

could be

a similar location. And it's Leone and Chris Tolos.
Because

I think because John Tolos had the main event run with Blassey in the early 70s in California, people think that Tolos was necessarily younger or fresher in the business.

He and his brother Chris had been a top tag team

all through the 1950s

and early

into the 60s. And then

he was older when he got that push.

This could be

another one of those Southern California towns in 1953. How's that?

The date,

February 24th, 1953.

Oh,

the El Paso Coliseum. Oh, you son of a bitch.
El Paso, Texas. You son of a bitch, it was Texas.
I couldn't give you two from the same territory, same time period. That would have been.

Well, I thought you were trying to swerve me. I thought you were trying to, it was like a trick question.

The promoter, it's Sam Menneker, but it says Frank, and then parentheses, Sam Meneker. That was, that was actually, I think, his legitimate real legal government name, as the kids say, was Frank.

But Sam Menneker, that's where

I met Sam Menneker when I was a kid. And my mom took me to Indianapolis and he walked in the back of the building and I took his picture and got his autograph.
But actually, in the business,

when I was in the business as a professional to be able to speak to him,

that's where I met him was in El Paso and I think 1985.

Because he, no, it wasn't even El Paso, it was Fort Bliss.

We did a show at a military base out there in West Texas, and he was living in El Paso and came to say hello to the boys and everything. But he promoted there and

worked out of there on and off for years and years for whatever reason. Was that where he went to with Stew Hart's plane? Was it yes, yes, Calgary to El Paso, Texas?

He said, well, you can come and pick it up if you want. Fans mourn Semis' death.
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly. S-E-M-M-E-S.

El Paso wrestling fans join with others in mourning the death of Spencer A. Semmes,

61-year-old El Paso County purchasing agent, who was found dead in his Lower Valley home last Saturday. Semmis,

who has handled the main ticket office for promoter Sam Menneker for over three years, was well known to wrestling fans.

A cooperative worker, Semmes was held in high esteem by all who knew him.

Well, there we go. Next week.
That's sad. Didn't even know he was sick.
Girl wrestlers next week, Lou These to defend title. On March 10th, new wrestling giant signed The Mighty Goliath.

Billed as the world's greatest wrestling giant has been signed for for an appearance at the Coliseum in the immediate future.

Promoter Sam Menneker announced today Goliath, who attracted international attention with his role as the giant in the motion picture David N.

Bathsheba, stands seven feet and weighs a solid 325 pounds. Although he was born in Poland, he is now a naturalized citizen of the U.S.

He has pledged himself to meet all comers,

barring none.

He is currently featured in Official Wrestling Magazine and other sports periodicals. Now, who would this guy be?

I guess if he played the giant in that movie. Google, Google that, because what name does he give? Is this that

maybe an early appearance of that Max Palmer fellow that worked as Paul Bunyan and was supposedly eight feet tall, but

he wasn't really. David and Bathsheba came out in 1951, so so two years before this program.

And

Goliath, if that's who we're looking at, was played by Walter Talon. Oh, I know that name.

Yes.

Walter. That's Ladislaw Talon.

He got into business with Pfeffer. Oh, wow.

There you go.

So

he didn't make it as Goliath, but he made it.

Oh, look at that. Well,

there's that one. One last program.
One last one. We'll wrap up.
It's an extended guest of program here today, Jim. It's the holidays.
We all got the turkey hangover.

I will be leaving out one match from this card. That's too much of a giveaway.

First bout, one fall 20 minutes. Sandar Kovacs versus Herb Gerwig.

Second bout, one fall 20 minutes. Luis Torres

versus Len Hughes, Cowboy.

Cowboy Lynn Hughes. Third bout, one fall twenty minutes.
Ramona Lopez

vs. Howard Martin.

Midgets, two out of three falls, forty five minutes.

Little Beaver and Red Taylor vs. Pee Wee James and Billy the Kid.

I will leave out the semifinal one fall 30 minute time limit match. The main event two out of three falls to a finish.

Billy Lions

and Bobo Brazil

versus Mike and Doc Gallagher.

Well, you've left off two of them.

Let's see, going from what we got, Sandor one flash. I left off one match, two wrestlers.

Well, but then you said you were going to skip another one. No, I said I'm skipping one match for this, and then I, when doing the placement of the matches on the card.
Oh, I see. I see.
I see.

I got you.

Uh, Sandor Kovacs,

longtime name, who later became a promoter.

Herb Gerwig, better known to the world and especially Dick Murdoch, as killer Carl Cox. That was Cox's real name, Herb Gerwig.

Cowboy Lynn Hughes is a recognizable name from this particular era.

I don't know that Lopez and Martin ever found success. The Midgets Little Beaver was probably the

well, he was the star on that

match, and he was probably because that's when they were booked out of Quebec, and Little Beaver was French-Canadian.

The mystery match, who knows? But Billy Red Lions and Bobo Brazil against the Gallagher Brothers

makes me think

Michigan

or the

surrounding environs, Ontario-ish,

something

like that.

Nobody on the undercard contradicts that.

The match that you didn't give me being a dead giveaway, it would it feature the chic or would it feature some other

territory name that would be so,

you know, specific? Um,

but for a time period, god, this is hard, also.

Uh, Sandor Kovacs is still in the ring. Cox is not yet Cox.

I think he was Cox by

1964-ish.

This is before that. 1961, 1961, somewhere in Ontario.

Jim, the match I didn't give you was the semifinal, one fall, 30-minute time limit. Ilio DiPaolo

versus Bronco Lubich.

We're in Buffalo, Buffalo, New York. We're in Buffalo, baby.
Friday, April 1st, April Fool's Day, 1960.

So what'd I say, 61? 61.

How far is Buffalo, New York from Ontario? It's right there. There you go.
So

fuck it.

All right. And there's a picture of

a picture of Herb Gerwig here who looks like holding a glass of milk with a sheepish smile on his face. Never seen killer Carl Cox look like this before.
But there it is.

Hey, hey, Murdoch told me one time, said, fucking Cox, after he got out of the business, he worked as a jail guard somewhere, I think, down in Texas, right? In Dallas, I think. In Dallas.

Well, there's this one fucking guy they had locked up. He was nuts.

And Cox would go in there and fuck with him and fuck with his mind.

And he'd sneak in late at night. He said, You know, they're keeping track of you.
They got you bugged. The transmitters, they're in your teeth.

And they fucking came in one day, and the guy had got some apparatus to do it with overnight, pulled all his teeth out of his own head. Jesus.
Yes.

I guess this was during his heel.

Yeah.

Cox didn't know he was going to go that far, but, you know,

he was a stiff ribber, though. He's in JFK, the Oliver Stone film.
I believe he plays the police officer in the Dallas police station carrying the gun when they walk. Yes, that's right.
Yeah.

Because he had that similar fucking giant head to the guy in the picture. Because when you see Carl Cox, he looks like what you would imagine a Dallas police officer in 1963 would look like.

Yo, every bit of it.

All right. Well, that was guest the program.
And of course, we have to tell you about one of our friends now.

Well, you know, Brian, now that we've finished that mental exercise, as I feel like doing whenever I exercise anything, I need to lay down. But thankfully.

For the folks out there, you will be happy to know that I'm laying my weary body down on a helix sleep mattress. And you can too, just like Brian and I do, just like

all of Brian's children do, just like Stacey does.

Just like, as a matter of fact, as I've mentioned, I have them out in the backyard in case we need to jump out the window someday.

You too can lay down on a helix sleep mattress, and it depends on you as to what it feels like. Do you want it firm? Do you want it soft? Do you want it to cool you down?

Do you want it to keep you warm?

Whatever you want to do, it'll do because you just go

to helixsleep.com. That's H-E-L-I-Xsleep.com.
And you take the quiz and you pick the mattress based on what your preferences are and how you like to sleep and who you like to sleep with.

They'll ask you for maybe the past five sexual partners. Just so they can check you out and determine how much abuse this mattress is going to take.
They won't ask you anything. And then otherwise.

They won't ask you anything about your sexual history. Let's not lie to the people.
Well, you can give fake names. They don't ask for the driver's license anymore.
There is no they.

They will be leaving you alone. There is no they.
There's no person that will be harassing you again about your private sexual history.

Enjoy a good night's sleep, a private night's sleep, or a sleep with friends on a great healing sleep mattress. Let's get this back on Trap Gym.
Or you can stay up late and watch movies on it too.

But again, if you want a soft one or a hard one or a big one or a small one or whatever you want, they they got it and it will help you with all your back and sleeping issues if you got a bad back you got the sleep apnea you got the night sweat you wake up screaming you know they got one for that too it's a screaming meme mattress it instantly claps a towel across your face and smothers you so that you don't wake up the people next door There is no screaming meme mattress and there's no mattress that will smother you.

We want to make sure we stress.

It'll muffle the screams and cries. There will be no screams and cries, and there will be no muffling.
It's a win for all involved. Helix sleep, a great mattress.

And of course, Jim, a great deal for our listeners looking for a good ordinary night's sleep.

Well, yes, and without the insane nightmares about being held captive in a South Pacific prison camp, go to helixleep.com right now

and use the promo code JCE. And boy, howdy, you're going to get 27% off.

27% off with the promo code JCE

over at helixleep.com. And now at the holidays, a better time than ever to throw away that old filthy mattress you got.
Just chuck it out the window.

You don't even need to put a mattress underneath it because it won't get hurt when it hits the ground. Actually, put your old mattress out in the backyard and put the helix in the house.

That way, you can sleep on the best mattress and just have the other one to jump out the window on in case of emergency. HelixSleep.com slash JCE.

Running a business is hard enough. So why make it harder? With a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.
One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Before you know it, you are drowning in software instead of growing your business. This is where Odoo comes in.
Odoo is the only business software you'll ever need.

It's an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything. CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier. And the best part, Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

It's built to grow with your business, whether you are just starting out or already scaling up. Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

So you can focus on what really matters, running your business. Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you? Try Odo for free at odo.com.
That's odoo.com.

Yeah, my thumb hit too many notes there. All right, we are back.

We are back, Jim, here on the show. And

it's been so much fun so far. We got a few more things we're going to do here today.
I'm going to try to get a few questions in also, but we're going to try something we haven't done in a while.

We're only going to do a short match because we haven't done this in a while, but the requests have been there. We have heard the demand.

A Jim Cornette watch-along. It's time to bring that back and get ready for more in 2026, but tease everyone with a short one right now.

We're trying to figure out how to do this so that everybody can play along because when we're watching something,

ads pop up for certain people in certain places and things. And I don't know how this works, but we're going to we're going to go to the

WWE Vault YouTube compilation that had two hours of rock and roll and Midnight Express matches. And we're just going to do the first one and watch that.

It's a nice little short thing and see if that works out for everybody. What do you think of the name of the video itself? Tag Team Wrestling's Greatest Rivalry?

Two hours. I don't know why they put a question mark on the end of it.

But otherwise, and that it pretty much summed it up. Does it need a question mark? That's the question.

No, it doesn't. Tag Team Wrestling's Greatest Rivalry.
And then two hours of Rock and Roll and Midnight.

I don't know if they put the best stuff, the best two hours, but there was a few things in here that I hadn't seen in a while. But

when you've got such a plethora of things to choose from, how can you? narrow it down. Once again, this is on YouTube.

The name of the video, Tag Team Wrestling's Greatest rivalry, two hours of Rock and Roll Express versus Midnight Express from the WWE Vault channel. Some people, including us, may get hit with ads.

If you're on YouTube Premium, you won't. But we're going based on these timestamps and we're going to watch together with no audio.

And I guess we should say the first match is to set the scene for this. This was Mid-South Wrestling Television.
We taped it on April 25th, 1984.

And basically, the previous week, I had signed an open contract for any team that wanted to challenge the Midnight Express for the Mid-South tag team title

with certain conditions.

All of the babyface teams in the territory were specifically mentioned as not being eligible. Because

I had some reason. We won't face the Rock and Roll Express.
We won't face Hacksaw, Duggan, and Magnum tea we won't face any of these people right

none of the babyface teams but it's an open contract

and then earlier in this program we did we had beaten greg kozlov and jason walker

and then the second match we had beaten john king and tony torres

and then

We're standing around in a ring waiting for our next challenger. We can do this all night.
And that's when Boyd Pierce in his green couch cover

is about to make the announcement of our third opponents.

That's kind of the scene that we've got going here. That's right.
Taped at the end of April 1984.

And what we'll do is we'll play some of this audio so you can break down you and Boyd Pierce interacting

before the match begins. So let's go to this before we do the watch along of the actual match.

This is your second standby bout and third match for the Mid-South Tag Team Championship. One fall or television time remaining.
We have already introduced the Mid-South Tag Team Champions.

I have news. Matchmaker Grizzly Smith told me during the last commercial break that we have new challengers coming in for this next match.

They have purchased the open contract and will be the challengers for the title. It's Mr.
Rusing and Mr. Rusing number two.

Somebody's behind it.

That is not the way the thing's supposed to be.

I don't care the way the thing's supposed to be. I gave a list.
They weren't on the list. I didn't think they were.

Mr. Wrestling.

And Mr. Wrestling and Mr.
Wrestling 2 were heels.

I didn't think to put them on the list. And for anyone confused, Mr.
Wrestling here is is the wrestler you would all know as Mr. Wrestling 2.
He decided he was number two to nobody

when he turned back heel or turned heel actually for the first time there.

And he became Mr. Wrestling.
Mr. Wrestling 2 became Hercules Hernandez.
Correct. Because Hercules had been one of the assassins with Jodi Hamilton in the Carolinas.

when he came to Louisiana and

he still had the masks. So he was briefly Mr.
Wrestling 2 alongside, as you said, the original Mr. Wrestling 2.
And then when 2 left the territory, they took the mask off Hercules.

He became my bodyguard. Let's go back to this audio.
Boyd Pierce giving you the bad news. We've already beat Wrestling 2 and some of his proteges.
We can do it again.

They were not on your list of exceptions. Here they are, the challengers, Mr.
Messenger.

Okay, and he had to go.

Well, Jim, real quick, let's stop because the action's about to begin. The timestamp on this video is one minute, three seconds, one minute and three seconds.
Press play

now.

And it basically, we're just going to jump them at the start and get into the fight. And then as they get the

robes off, when the boys have time to look, they realize, oh, shit, it's the Rock and Roll Express. And the fans are saying it's the rock and roll.

And they have not at this point.

at that point, I didn't know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch because Robert went with the dropkick. Ricky was going to punch me.
So I just kind of went in the middle.

But now the fans know what's going on. They have not had the opportunity to see the Midnight and the Rock and Roll except for a time or two before.

We had had the program where we won the belts from Wrestling 2 and Magnum TA.

And then we had had the one TV match with the rock and roll because they were still involved in a program with the Russians. And that was just a little tease to show the fans what it would be like.

Then we did the angle with Watts, and we're in the middle of the last stampede tour. So by the time this is going to show, the stampede is finishing up.
And now

we've got some type of personal issue going on. with the Rock and Roll Express.
And look how sharp Ricky is. Every movement that Riggy Morton made was just so sharp and meant something.

And again, Dennis Condry,

he put himself in a hammer lock.

Dennis was never lost. He was always in the right position.
He was leading the matches.

And then,

again, these guys,

what did we do on the age list? Robert is 25, Ricky's 27, Bobby's 26, Dennis is barely 30.

And all we had to do was show,

again, look at the beal and the head scissors.

And

boom, in that ring, sometimes it was a little hard. All we had to do was show the people

how fucking much action they were going to see and then give them a personal issue because they already liked the rock and roll. and they already hated us.

So once we got legitimate heat with them, that's why it fucking drew.

And this is all called in the ring. Nobody's going to make a big mistake.
We know we've only got three or four minutes after the bell. Bobby's just incredible.

And Robert Gibson, you can see the shape he was in and the way he could move at that point. He's overlooked because he was partners with Ricky.

And now we got to slow it down just a second while the people are screaming and chanting rock and roll so that we're going to go to the finish in a minute because we ain't got much more time.

If we were going 100 miles an hour into the finish, then when we go 100 miles an hour in a finish, it wouldn't make any fucking sense.

And I'm droning on, Brian, but feel free to jump in.

No, you're telling the story, and that's what people want to hear. I mean, this is all four of these guys.
Can't even say at their peak because their peak continued for quite a while.

There's a false tag. Roddy West, the referee, didn't see it.
It was behind his back.

Robert Gibson over the top rope. That's a disqualification at that point in time in mid-South.
We should have been disqualified, but the referee didn't see it again.

Now we're going to go for our finish that we've been using on Riggie Morton, but he overbalances, boom, shoves Dennis into Bobby.

And then rolls Dennis up as

fucking Dahoot is going to try on these rubber band ropes to get a superplex. And there we go, double cover, one, two, three.

It would have been a little smoother had the ropes had any tension in them whatsoever.

But nevertheless, that's how the Rock and Roll Express, boom,

won the tag team titles.

It gave us the ultimate bitch. We didn't even know we were going to wrestle them until they hit the ring.
They lied and obscured their identity.

And then we come in in this impromptu match and get beat in a manner like that because the referee was all out of position.

And then once that played, then we started on a program with them.

And then the next thing we needed to do was fuck them up, which shortly afterwards, right when the last stampede ended, that's exactly what we fucking did.

What can you tell me about that ring at the Irish McNeil Boys Club? Oh, well, it wasn't just the ring itself. It could be good.
It's just you never knew who was going to set it up because they had

people that hung around the Irish McNeil Boys Club set the fucking ring up. And if they got somebody new, the ropes,

you know,

you couldn't support yourself on them. You just had to kind of work around it.

And that's anyway, that's,

it'd be a couple of weeks later on the next TV. We would do a contract signing where I'd put up 50 grand to get another title match with the rock and roll.

And then we had that on TV the following time where

that's when I, we ethered them and fucked them out of the fucking belts. And that really started the heat that we ran with all summer.

Summer of 84. I can't even.
think of or hear Van Halen jump without thinking of the Rock and Roll Express in their car.

Super date at the Superdome.

There it is, the Rock and Roll Express versus Midnight Express or Mid-South Wrestling as seen on YouTube. Jim, let's get a few questions before we get out of here.
I had them here.

Well, you know, because that's the thing: a lot of people have been emailing us and say we're not doing any questions as much as we used to anymore because there's always the big show over here and the injury over there and the catastrophe over here and the controversy over there.

But people are emailing and said, we're sending in the greatest questions ever. We're sending in questions.

People are demanding all over the world to know the answer to, and you guys aren't asking them. So there's all these incredible questions and these interesting topics.
It's just sitting there.

And we're going to jump in right now.

Because if all these people are saying they're demanding to know the answers, we got to find out.

I'm trying to find some good questions here. I'm scrolling.
Here's one. Well, see, that seems to be the problem.

Every time people write and say we've sent in the best questions that we've ever seen, and you won't ask them, we go to find all these great questions. A lot of these questions ain't that great.

This one was sent in via the Cult According to Facebook group by Hollid Love.

Oh, come on. That's the name.

This is what Hollid Love

AEW has been mismanaging stars, putting on bad shows, bad spots at least.

And they are suffering from diminishing ratings.

If you were talked to turn the entire company around,

which actions do you think would need, that's in caps, to happen right now.

Oh, no, to happen to write that ship, excuse me. Did he say what I, if I was tasked and he just typoed it?

If I was tasked with or talked into, but yeah, if you were in charge of the turnaround of AEW. Well, gosh,

you trying to kill me?

These are the kind of questions we get. Can Jim on the spot book a nine-month program with wrestlers he doesn't like? Like things like that happen all the time.
Well, no, if I was 25 years younger.

And somebody said, hey, it's your job to make this

a successful, ongoing enterprise that gains viewers instead of loses them and sells more tickets instead of less of them as time goes on, and et cetera, et cetera.

The first thing I would do is not do anything myself.

I would find other people. I would get good announcers for the television show.
I would get a good booker for the company in general.

I would find,

separate the wheat from the chaff on the indie-minded blase boring interchangeable dipshits and who's got some type of charisma and

appeal on a talent roster and start pushing those people with the talent and the appeal and the charisma and less of the

interchangeable

you know trampoline kids

i would

certainly try to

go through the entire office

And we don't know who these people are. Who works in the office? I know there's 400 people in fucking Stanford that are doing some marketing, merchandising, live events,

all these jobs.

Who does any of these jobs in that company? Sanjay.

And is there any way that we can find people who have...

I don't know, like experience in these various things and talk to these big Hollywood agents and sponsors and movers and shakers instead of,

you know, a guy's wife is moving, is mailing out his t-shirts.

I'm just

this is the kind of thing you can't just say, oh, you're going to get a new booker and everything will be good because you've still got talent all over the place and a lack of infrastructure in your office staff.

And,

you know, there has to,

I would just try to find

who was in what position and what are the goddamn alternatives that we could get for somebody with more experience that had more on the ball that might have a better idea of how to do things than whatever the fuck it is they're doing.

And that would, that would go for television production, wrestling staff, definitely Tony the booker.

There would be nothing wrong with Tony Kahn

if he had said, I'm going to finance this thing

because I want another wrestling promotion to succeed and an alternative to the WWF and blah, blah, blah.

If he had then

put people in charge of all of this shit that knew what the fuck they were doing.

But instead, it's become his childhood dream to do this for real.

And as his

recent interview said, as long as all the guys are happy and having fun, and he's having fun, when he leaves the building, the hundreds of millions of dollars didn't matter.

So, to actually

make it something that,

again, like I said, would gain popularity instead of lose it like they have and

burn all their talent out, hurt all their talent, hurt all their goodwill, just fatigue the fans with endless

stuntman bullshit.

Figure out a way that we can get all the people working toward building it where it gets bigger.

And you can't do that with this indie-minded

bunch of nitwits and their amateur hour fucking productions in a variety of ways.

Well, the other thing is it's not as simple as slotting a Jim Cornette or an anyone

into that position because anyone who takes over, if we're talking about like someone taking over the company and running it for Tony, booking everything,

it would be a bigger culture shock than Bill Watts taking over WCW in 92 because of what the talent are used to. Yeah.
Jon Moxley,

I'm not a fan of his. I sound like Dave now.
Hate what he does. Hate everything about it.
Hate his promos, hate his... Wrestling, hate his matches, hate his instincts.
Big star.

He's a star.

Do you think you'd be able to, at this point in time, if someone took over AEW, sit down with Jon Moxley and not do what he wanted? And I'm using him as an example.

He's not unique when it comes to a star in AEW.

If all of a sudden someone came in there and said, I have the book. This is what's going to happen.

I don't know how they would take it. Well, see, no, with Moxley, it wouldn't be a problem because he'd be one of the first people to leave.

Because again, I said,

it's not about just getting a new booker.

It's about getting new everybody.

At this point, it may be a fruitless task at this point anyway, because

it is what it is. People, you don't get a second chance to make a first impression a lot of times.
People are used to

what AEW is and people who have.

tried it before and said, what the fuck is this? Ain't going to try again.

People who didn't try it before

ain't really gonna be trying it now. And the people who are left are fine with what it is.

But

if you want to change it, make it bigger, make it more professional, make it a long ongoing thing. If Tony Kahn gets hit by a bus, then they're all fucked right now.

But at the same time, if Nick Kahn or Ari Emanuel or any one of 20 other people get run over by a bus, they'll hold a brief service and go back to work.

So

you got to build something where everybody is a competent professional in charge of everything.

And you're going to have wrestlers on the roster that are going to fit your fucking

ideas.

You're the movie producer. You're the movie director.
He don't fit the part. Jon Moxley is the example of everything that's been wrong with AEW until now.

His mindset, his matches, his philosophy, his whole fucking thing. So he would not be asked to participate.

They lost CM Punk

and it hurt them, but they're still in business. You think they'd lose 20,000 fucking viewers if they lost Moxley?

You cast your movie with the people that can play the parts.

Let him go be in somebody else's fucking movie.

All right. Well, that's how we would turn around AEW.

Jim, another question here from the Cult of Cornet Facebook group was sent in by Brandon Hitchcock.

I'm reading the Irresistible Force, the Brian Solomon book, and I was wondering how the landscape of wrestling today would be different if Guerrilla Monsoon had been given the company.

Was wrestling destined to move away from the territory system regardless? And Vince just made the inevitable happen quicker.

That should have been a question there at the end that I completely screwed it up. But you get the point.

Was everything that happened inevitable? What if Gorilla Monsoon, as it seemed was the plan,

been given the territory as the other partners aged out?

Well, not been given, been the one to buy them out and run the thing. It wasn't like, oh,

we're about dead. We're going to give this whole thing to Gorilla.
But he was the guy behind the scenes and he was the mover and shaker. And when Vince Sr.
got sick and the other partners were old and

then here came Vinny out of nowhere, out of nowhere,

the expansion wouldn't have happened because Gorilla wouldn't have done that to all the people he'd been doing business with for the previous 20 years. And he also

would have seen that

it would damage the business in general, the idea of the wrestling business, which it did. When Vince did what he did, it damaged the wrestling business in general.
And Gorilla was not a,

he loved money and he had plenty of it, but he wasn't so fucking greedy that it's all about me and my thing at everybody else's fucking peril.

And I'm going to make more money and I'm going to rule the world.

They would have continued to operate

the biggest grossing territory in the country, in the world, with the big major markets, and they would have

been

a much more wrestling-oriented product because Gorilla didn't hate it like Vince did.

And I don't think you would have had

the incredible,

you know, attitude era where one company is blowing everything else out of the water, or you wouldn't have the monopoly you have now.

You would have had

wrestling would have won rather than sports entertainment.

Because

even if Gorilla and the WWF had gotten bigger because of cable,

he could have figured out a way to work with the guys in Georgia.

It wouldn't have been a goddamn cutthroat war where they wouldn't have had to hot shot and gone through all kinds of bullshit.

And there wouldn't have really been a sports entertainment because he wouldn't have gone for that either. So you would have either had

wrestling would have won regardless because

either the biggest company in the business, the WWF,

would have continued to be, or the guys in Georgia would have taken over, but the WWF would have still

been doing just fine. And many of the other territories may have hung around for a while longer.

I don't know, but Brian, but there would have been no sports entertainment, Gorilla wouldn't have done that.

So wrestling and

one way or another,

a form of wrestling would have won, whether it was the WWF style or the NWA style, a form of wrestling would have won because. Or Vern.

Or Vern. Well, they were trying to do stuff.

Yeah, but I, yeah, but.

Eventually, because all the young athletic talent was in the south and all of the big major markets were in the north.

One side of those others would have won. See, here's a way to look at it that's a little different because it's an event that would have happened no matter what.

If Vince McMahon Jr.

doesn't begin the process of purchasing the company in June of 82,

he is considered the owner, but he still has down payments to make for the next year.

If that doesn't happen, he just is the announcer, and then again, Geno is going to take over.

What do they do about Snooka

in early 83?

How different, if at all, would the reaction from the company have been to Jimmy Snooka's first incident?

And then, of course, the second one, which was eventually deemed the murder of Nancy Argentino?

I don't know that Gorilla, if he was the sole decision maker, would have put up with that.

because

he had seen,

he knew how valuable Snooka was at the gate, but he had also seen guys come and go over the many more years he'd been involved than Vince Jr.

And I think he would have probably thought,

it's not that important to keep this guy around. He might do more damage to our business.
We'll get somebody else over.

But Vince was always about

protecting these stars.

And there's something to that, but you can also take it too far.

All right, Jim, our next question

was sent via email to corney drivethru at gmail.com from Jason

in Baltimore.

Inspired by Guess the Program, I've been going through my collection of programs from shows I attended and was looking through the program from Crockett Cup 87 in Baltimore.

It has Dennis with the Midnight and Stan still with the fabulous ones.

Looking at the brackets, it's pretty clear that there was a plan for a Fabs vs. Rock and Roll Express match, which I don't remember ever happening.

Instead,

Steve Kern was teamed with George South, and Ricky Morton didn't even make it to the show.

My questions,

why wasn't a stronger partner brought in for Steve? Do you remember any backstage vibes of disappointment over matches that were planned, but didn't happen?

Well, let me answer that one first.

I guarant goddamn T you that in those days,

nobody.

was looking forward to having a match with anybody else for any other reason that it was going to be the main event and sell a lot of tickets is going to be a good payoff.

Neither the fabulous ones nor the rock and roll were sitting there in the weeks leading up to the thing going, I can't wait to have this dream match for the first time ever.

They might not have even known about it. Because like you said, Ricky didn't make the show.
I can't remember what was going on. Brian, maybe you can.
It was an injury.

But he was pissed at, was that a time where he was hurt or pissed at the office?

I think that was when he was hurt because he was pissed at the office at the beginning of 88 when you guys went to New York.

Robert Gibson was brought out to announce to the fans there that Ricky was hurt, I believe. That's well, nevertheless,

remember Stan's first day with the Midnight Express was like, what, April 4th in Boston and the Atlanta TV?

And what's the date on Baltimore two weeks later? They printed the program in advance. Nobody knew, including us, that Dennis was going to take off.

And then

nobody knew that Stan

was going to be the new member of the Midnight Express until Dusty had the idea, brought him up. Well, I was okay.
And then it was two days later he started.

So

the Crockett Cup was intended to be all the top tag teams around the world. And remember in 86 in the Superdome, we had Baba and Saruda, right? And

all of the various territories that still existed were sending teams.

So the fabulous ones as a recognized team, blah, blah, blah. But once that

Dennis left, Stan replaced Dennis and became a member of the Midnight Express, and Dusty

had all this other stuff going on.

I don't know if anybody thought to goddamn get Kern another partner. I don't know if anybody gave a shit.

And there's George South, who's always ready to fill in and lend a hand. And they just did that because, to be honest, the fabs were obviously over with at that point.
They'd been

kind of on life support to begin with because that's why Stan jumped at the chance. Stan and Steve had been in Florida.
Florida was about dead.

Crockett was about to buy it or take it over, just to, I think, maybe just had.

And Steve had gotten a real estate license. So Stan's like, fuck, I'm making 300 bucks a week.

So really, nobody gave a shit to answer your one of the questions as to

why they didn't get a better partner or whatever. I mean, did you think Steve Kern was done with wrestling or did you think it was just like a temporary thing? Stan did.

In one way or another, he said if he had to stay with Steve and make 300 bucks a week. In Florida while it was still in business or goddamn be a member of the Midnight Express, was

he was just happy as a clam to be thought of at that point.

Jim, this one was sent via Facebook on the Cult of Cornet Facebook page by Neil V. Damood.

He's in the mood. He really means it.
In the mood. Recently, I watched Ultimate Warriors' last match in WWE.

Well,

I wish I could say I'd seen Ultimate Warriors last match. Against Owen Hart, managed by Jim.

Bulldog, Vader, and Jim get their licks in during the afterbirth.

Did everyone know or suspect that this was Warrior's last match?

How was Warrior to deal with the night of his final WWE match and departure?

And he wanted to know if you would. Well, you weren't a talking head on that DVD, so we kind of know what you would have said.

Well, and also,

I don't remember this,

but I don't, to answer your question, no, we didn't know it was going to be his last match because I do remember

because I was on the

creative team at the time that,

you know, he left. Vince didn't know he was not coming back the last time we saw him.
And then all the shit happened.

where they went back and forth with their lawyers and letters and phone calls and everything.

But

wasn't that when Warrior wanted Vince to buy a million of his comic books for $2 a piece or whatever, and it'll all be fine? I don't know. I tried to stay away from the Warrior.

I didn't like his work. I thought he was a fucking dingbat.

I thought he was a prima donna. And I didn't ever really associate with him.
And he never get on the cream. When you were working Ringside?

Well, no. Well, I mean,

he might have given me a bump or two, but not like.

He didn't try to press slam you. No.
because he hurt Bobby Heenan.

Well, I was that would have been a goddamn fruitless task if he'd have tried to press slam me because he would have had air in his hands.

No, I think it was shit like I held him once and Bulldog ran at him and he moved and Bulldog nailed me like that, right?

No, there was never when he hurt Bobby is when he closed Bobby was turning around working the people,

you know, in the arena on the apron, and Warrior came up and clotheslined him from behind on his bad neck, anyway.

Uh, but no, it again,

I just didn't want to be involved with the guy because his matches were all shits, and he was a space cadet.

And so, I put

I didn't have to. Vince was obviously the one that either dealt with him on all his shit or he had like a Jack Lanza where that was his dedicated agent.
Again, fine with me.

So,

but no, no, but he didn't announce that this is my last night. He would always

come in, something would go wrong, and he'd be gone, and you didn't know what was going to happen.

All right. Well, thank you for your question, Neil.

And Jim, with that.

I'm trying to remember now, and I know you're what you're going to say here in a second with that, but I'm trying to remember now if he actually ever did give me a bump of any kind on his own.

It, because

I could, had, well, I had little, whenever, whenever I didn't want anybody necessarily to get their hands on me, I had little ways of turning things around.

Like when we were in Dallas, none of the Von Ericks ever fucking touched me

because they were buck fucking wild and you didn't know where it was coming from. And I didn't fucking trust them.
They were stiff. But

one night.

In the sportatorium, I think it was Carrie. He was going to be on top of Dennis, covered him.
And the referee was a big four-way referee was looking elsewhere.

And I was going to run in with the racket. And I think Ken Mantel had said, yeah, Carrie, you pop up and fucking nail Cornette and get the racket and do whatever the fuck.
Okay.

And when we got together, I said, Carrie, you know what? It'd be even cooler. If we could time it just right, I bet you could do it.
I think I can.

If I raise that racket and run at you and you just grab my foot and sweep my leg right out from under me, I'll fly way up in the air and throw the racket up. You just catch it.

Oh, yeah, that'd be cool. So instead of nailing me,

he just swept my foot and I just, woo, and threw in the racket. That is funny.

Hey, let me ask you real quick this Ultimate Warrior topic, because I guess the time period got me thinking about it.

Not too long ago, there was a day where a bunch of people tried to post it in the Cult of Corner Facebook group. Maybe one got approved and 12 got turned down.

It was going around. It was a clip of you at Ringside, but you weren't the focal point.

Davey Boy versus Diesel from In Your House.

And the comments that whoever posted it wrote were,

this was the match so bad that Vince McMahon got upset and stormed off commentary at the end of the night and yelled at everyone. Do you remember anything about this?

Well, no, I remember that match, and it's the one where I dropped the elbow on Nash's leg out on the floor, right? In one of the spots where Davey's got to referee. I think so.

In your house, Davey and Diesel for the WWF title. That was a worst fucking world title match I've ever been at ringside for.

And again, Davey,

bless him. It wasn't all Nash's fault now.
Davey could have an incredible match with Bret Hart or Owen Hart or somebody when he was motivated and he was on, and it was a stylistic,

you know, fucking compliment. He was one of the best in the world.

If he wasn't on, wasn't right,

and it was a style clash, it could suck. And Nash was not,

again,

I'm not trying to start a feud after all these years, but Nash was not jack fucking Briscoe.

And this thing just fucking stunk.

And I don't know what happened back at the back.

I don't remember. I don't know if Vince stormed off because I was out involved in this fiasco.

But I remember definitely when we came back, because me dropping the elbow on fucking Nash's leg on the floor was the biggest pop of the fucking WWF World Title match.

And that's not trying to put myself over. That's saying how stinky it was.

I went up to Vince and I just, I held my hands out. I said, Vince, I apologize.

He said, what do you mean? I said, I popped for what for?

For being a part of that fucking stinking abortion we just had out there. That I had any part of it, I apologize.

And he looked at me and said,

it was fine. It was fine.

I don't know what he told them, but maybe I nipped a fucking ass chewing in the bud because I came up and admitted that it sucked donkey balls.

Well, that may be a candidate for a future watch-along just to see December, I think, December 1995. Was it in your house?

Davey and Diesel for the title.

All right. Well, this is your show.

No, it's not. Oh, it is? It is.
Shit.

I forgot. Well,

happy Thanksgiving, everybody. Thank you.
And fuck the turkey and bye-bye. Get the experience.
Get the experience of Jim Connette

of Jim Connet

of Jim Connet.