Amy Porterfield: I Quit a Prestigious Job with Tony Robbins and Built a $100M Business

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So let's dive in. The worst day as an entrepreneur is better than the best day in a 9-to-5 job.
Amy Porterfield, she is a leading online marketing expert, an entrepreneur, and a bestselling author who helps business owners grow their online businesses. Why would I ever have thought to become an entrepreneur? I had a lot of corporate jobs, and I loved climbing the corporate ladder.
Like, I'm an ambitious woman, and I like to win. I worked for Harley Davidson in marketing to working with Tony Robbins for seven years.
And I got to a point that I thought, I don't want anyone telling me what to do ever again. And then I eventually said, I'm going out on my own.
Sometimes the decision to say no or to close a door makes zero sense. But in your gut, you know that it's the right way to go, even though it's so scary and you kind of want to throw up when you do it, listen to that knowing because our gut doesn't lie.

Amy, how did you manage to build such an incredible empire?

I think that... Amy Porterfield.
I've been following her for a while. She is a leading online marketing expert, an entrepreneur, and a bestselling author who helps business owners grow their online businesses.
How cool is that? And she's one of those that hit $100 million in total revenue last year. How badass it is.
I can't wait to have that discussion with you, Amy. Thank you for being on the show.
Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here.
It's so cool. So I looked at your career and it's so interesting because your early life, your childhood played a pretty big role in shaping who you are today.
Take us back in time for a second to how you grew up and what influenced this entrepreneurial mindset that you have today. I used to say that I had no example of an entrepreneur growing up.
My dad was a firefighter, blue collar to the bone. He also had a side job because firefighters typically have a lot of time off.
So heating and air conditioning, also blue collar. My mom stayed home with my sister and I.
And so I always look back, why would I ever have thought to become an entrepreneur? Well, two things. Number one, I actually didn't for a long time.
I was in corporate jobs since the day I left college from publishing to working with Tony Robbins for seven years. That was my last corporate job.
I worked for Harley Davidson in marketing. So I had a lot of corporate jobs, and I loved climbing the corporate ladder.
Like, I'm an ambitious woman, and I like to win. So that was always a goal of mine.
And then when I found myself working for Tony, that's when I started realizing, wait a second, he talks about being your own boss and talks about going after what you want. And that must've just started to really rub off on me.
However, if I go back to the days I used to play Barbies on the floor with my sister, I remember so distinctly now my dad saying, find a way to be your own boss. We had no idea what he was talking about.
We were very young. He wasn't his own boss, but he kept saying, find a way to be your own boss.
And that must have just somehow seeped into me because when I became my own boss, I realized, oh my gosh, my dad has been saying it since I was very young. So that's essentially how it went, but it was never a dream of mine.
It was never a goal until very later when I turned 30. But take me back in time.
You've been in Harley Davidson and then you landed Tony Robbins. How did you land it? I think one of the things that a lot of our audience is, how do you get these dream opportunities? How did you land this? Do you remember? For Harley Davidson, it was at a dealership level.
So I marketed for several dealerships in a town that I lived in. And I remember, I don't remember the book.
I don't remember the details, but I do remember finding a book of how to get a job in a different way, meaning it's not apply to a job, send a resume. It was essentially find the person that is going to be hiring you, do a lot of research, write a really cool letter that's different than a resume, and find a way to get it to them.
And so I don't remember all the particulars, but I do remember doing it differently. I'm always looking for ways to stand out or grab someone's attention, which I do now in online marketing every single day.
But that's how I landed the marketing job at Harley-Davidson. I came in kind of a different way and had a different experience so that I caught their eye.
But for Tony Robbins, it was different. So I was living in Ventura, California, where I was working for Harley, and I had broken up with a boyfriend who I'd been with for a while.
And every night I could not sleep. I was heartbroken.
It was terrible. So every night I would lay on my couch, hoping I could fall asleep, watching Tony Robbins infomercials that at the time, every single minute an infomercial was on for Tony.
It was a statistic. Every minute you could find a Tony Robbins infomercial.
So I had no idea who this guy was, but I was motivated and he got me motivated. And I was like, I want more of this.
I feel like my life has come to a big stall with this breakup and not knowing where to go next. So I went to the library, bought some tapes.
That's how long ago this was. Some tapes, even though CDs were out, some reason I had some tapes and put them in a player and I would listen to these any chance I got.
And so I decided I'm going to go work for him. I loved everything he taught.
I believed in his content. I want to go work for him.
So I applied for a job. I got an interview.
And at the time, I think I was making $60,000 at Harley. And I was offered $30,000, but I could travel the world, work with Tony directly, and have this amazing experience.
Now, what I did next, I can't believe I did because I turned down the job. I don't know who turns down a job working directly with Tony Robbins, but I did because I knew I was made for greatness.
I knew I deserved more, and I did not, at that being that young, I didn't want to go backwards with my pay. I just really couldn't afford $30,000 versus $60,000.
So I politely said no, but I said, if you're looking for somebody to be a manager in your content department, that's the role I was going for, I'm ready and I want it. So just let me know if something becomes available.
Within a few months, something did. They came back to me.
I landed a director job for content, traveled with Tony, got to work with Tony on the content he did on stage, been to London and Fiji and everywhere, Australia. It was incredible.
And I learned from the best. And so it was worth holding out.
For those listening, sometimes the decision to say no or to close a door makes zero sense, but in your gut, you know that it's the right way to go, even though it's so scary and you kind of want to throw up when you do it. Listen to that knowing because our gut doesn't lie.
And it was the best decision I ever made. Oh my God.
I love that, Amy. And I agree.
I think many times our instincts already know the answer, but we're rationalizing with data and we're giving ourselves excuses and we're like backpedaling and it's like we're doing all the things. But I absolutely agree.
And by the way, every time I hired somebody against my instinct or something is always off. Oh, yeah.
It's so true. But I wanted it so bad or thought I'd miss out on an opportunity.
So I just said yes and really regretted it. So yes, I totally get that.
I love that. So you are landing this incredible role, which I'm thinking, oh my God, this is a priceless school of opportunity that you just landed yourself.
What do you feel is some of the best learning experiences? Again, it was just like all the marketing and all the things, but can you pinpoint some specific things that you literally got from this opportunity? I think the number one thing I learned from working with Tony is to be resourceful. Every idea that came our way, everything that he wanted to do, we always figured out a way.
And I don't mean by throwing a bunch of money to it. We had to stay within budget, but there was always a way, someone you could call, some way to do it differently to get that yes.
So resourcefulness is one of my biggest strengths, and I learned it directly from Tony. Never take no for an answer.
Figure it out. Go beyond your comfort zone.
There's always an answer. So that has served me well as an entrepreneur.
Another thing was, so I worked in content. So that meant I worked with different events he did, Unleash the Power Within, Date Witch Destiny, the content that he does on stage, I got to work behind the scenes.
It all really comes from Tony, but fine-tuning the writing, the putting it together was my department. And when you walked into my department in the offices in San Diego, California, there was a big sign that says, does the customer care? And I have taken that lesson into everything I do, meaning as an entrepreneur or someone that is in a corporate job, you're creating for customers, but sometimes we start creating for ourselves, throwing in everything in the kitchen sink because we have all this information or we should do this, we should do that, and what about this? And all of a sudden, it's so overwhelming

to your student, to your client, but it felt exciting for you to create, or it felt right,

but the customer does not care. Or little details.
I'm all about excellence, but sometimes we focus

on things that just are not important, and it takes us away from what actually is. So everything we do in my business today, does the customer care? And the answer usually is no, we've gone too far.
We've gone down a rabbit hole. We've put too much in it.
Let's pull back. Can I say something about this? Just a second, Amy.
For everybody listening, I think this is so, so important. I want you to literally circle this thing because I see people doing this with hiring managers.
I see people doing this in interviews. I see people doing this with pitches to investors.
I see people doing like, we're trying to give them everything we've done in our life, everything, the entire thing. And this is not what they need right now.
So really, I can't trace it enough. Amy, you said it so beautifully, like think what they actually need to know right now to have a green light, right? Whether it's a client, it's a hiring manager, it's a board seat, it's whatever.
So, so, so important. I'm so glad that resonates with you because absolutely every example you gave, yes, yes, yes.
I think the final thing, if I were to talk about three things that I really took away from working with Tony and working on that team is storytelling. What was interesting about working on the content with Tony is every section of content always started or ended with a story.
And this is something I sometimes struggle with in my business and watching the master do it, Tony do it, I can get intimidated pretty quickly. His stories were animated.
He brought them to life. He's on stage moving around and telling it, making people laugh and making people cry.
But every piece of core content had a personal story tied to it. And I just thought that was such a beautiful way to draw people in and really paint the picture of what you're trying to teach.
And so in my business today, we're always documenting stories, looking for ways to weave in stories. And I'm always working on my storytelling skills because it really is a skill.
It doesn't come natural to me, but I love weaving in stories when teaching in any kind of way. And that's incredible.
And I think we'll talk about it later because you already have a podcast and clearly I can already see how you're answering through stories. And you've been doing this for many, many years.
So I also don't want the audience to feel freaked out or have imposter syndrome around it. It is a muscle that you need to build again, again, again.
And it's like that muscle just gets stronger. But talk to me for a second.
It sounds like it was an incredible opportunity, a lot of growth. You clearly have somebody amazing to learn from, and you still decide to leave it all away and take your own path, which could be a daunting decision.
So Amy, take me back in time a little bit to that decision. What made it real for you? That was a tough one for me.
I had been at the company for almost seven years. I had been treated very well.
I was making great money. I got great bonuses.
I got to travel. All of that was wonderful.
But every time Tony got on stage, there was always some little message about be your own boss and find your freedom and create a life on your terms. And I just knew, especially as a woman, I will hit the glass ceiling.
And I also knew that there wasn't a lot of different areas I could go at that point. And so one day, without even thinking about what I wanted to do, I was in my job doing my thing.
And Tony brought in a bunch of internet marketers to our San Diego conference room. At the time, I had no idea who these people are and those listening, if you're not in the online space, you might not either, but just in case those who do, Jeff Walker, Eben Pagan, Brendan Bouchard, Frank Kern, like really big names in the online marketing industry, they were all around the table, all men, no women.
And I was invited to the meeting to take notes. So I didn't even sit at the main table.
I was a director in the business, but we do everything in those roles. So I was brought in and I'm so glad I was.
I sat at the side table and I took notes. I took the worst notes of my life because I was entranced with what these men were talking about.
So Tony was getting more into the digital course space, the online marketing space, selling programs online. And he wanted to hear about what these masters who were selling digital courses and memberships, what they were doing.
Because I love how Tony, he learned by asking other people, what are you doing? What does that look like? And then he does it way better. And so he had the guys go around and talk about their businesses.
They didn't just talk about their businesses. Every single one of them mentioned the word freedom or lifestyle or time with their family.
And I just looked around and thought, these guys have figured out how to create a life on their terms. I have no idea what they're doing.
I do not know how to create digital courses. I don't even know how to market my own business.
I want it. I want a piece of that.
And for the next year, I was hungry. I started doing my own research nights, mornings, anytime I could.
What could I create? What could this look like? And about a year after that fateful meeting, I left Tony Robbins for the very last time. I remember it like it was yesterday.
I had this little white car stacked up with boxes, leaving the San Diego offices in the song, Here Comes the Sun, came on the radio. And I thought, it's a sign.
It's a sign. So that was basically how it all came about.
Oh my God, Amy. And you jump into this thing, but it's a completely new world.
Landing the first clients is freaking scary. Take us back there a little bit because I've been there, right? And it's like that move is like in the first clients and you have this constant imposter syndrome and can I do it? And what am I selling? Tell me a little bit, what was it for you, Emi? I wanna pause for a quick second.
When I was talking about my success and leaving my nine-to-five job in a different interview, one of the women said to me, I was telling her about all the different things, what we're talking about, what I did to create my own business. And she said, well, working for Tony Robbins obviously helped you.
Kind of like taking away my skill and my knowledge, but saying you work for Tony so that opened doors for you. And it possibly could have,, but I wanna just point out, I work for Tony Robbins, but I still had imposter syndrome.
I still had zero confidence in doing this on my own. And I doubted every single decision I made.
And so I had to figure that out as I went. So I love this question.
It was the most terrifying decision I've ever made in my life. And the day I left, I thought it would be easy.
I genuinely thought I would work less hours. You know, you see the people on the beach with their laptop saying like, freedom, that's what freedom was like.
Four-hour work week, let's go. Yeah, that was not my reality at all.
I've never worked so many hours in my life the first years of leaving my last corporate job. And every single thing I did, I doubted it.
And I felt like a fraud for a really long time because I had no idea what this landscape looked like. So every emotion you could think of, I had.
And I love your realness about it because I think we are living a little bit bit in an era of four hour work week and freedom and you can live life on your terms. And the truth is, it is kind of true.
Like I'm kind of doing my own thing and I'm still working 20 hours a day. So there's a little bit of that.
But I think another element that I think is really, really important is that what you said about the Tony Robbins, is this an advantage? And I think when you actually look at every single person, their zone of genius, their story, you all have an advantage. You just need to find it.
My military experience, I've never talked about it, but it's actually an advantage. I just didn't realize it, right? So I think there's a little bit of, do we actually know how to look for those advantages

that actually open the doors, right?

And start telling the stories.

Hey, I'm pausing here for a second.

I hope you're enjoying this amazing conversation.

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So you're building this business, and again, 100 million fucking dollars. Sorry, Amy.
Like, how incredible is that? And I'm not supposed to swear in this show, but that's incredible. But you also talk openly about anxiety and depression.
And I'm really honest about it. I don't think everybody is meant to be an entrepreneur.
I think it's the hardest thing ever. And I think if you're happy in a corporate job, freaking enjoy it.
Yes, absolutely. Yes.
And find you're happy there. But depression and anxiety have been a very big central theme in my life for a very long time.
So since I was very young, I didn't know it was depression until I got to college. My parents had just divorced after 25 years.
I really struggled with that. I went to a doctor because I couldn't stop crying.
I didn't know what was going on. And for those that know depression, you'll likely know a black cloud is over you even when you don't have a reason to be sad.
Like, my life is great. I'm in college.
I've got this great boyfriend. What's the problem? Black cloud.
And so starting in college, I've been on and off depression medicine for a very long time. I didn't have anxiety, never felt that, never knew what it was at the time, but depression followed me until about two years ago.
Two years ago, I met a doctor, and he was giving me an IV for energy. It was right after I had gotten COVID.
We went, we got an IV to just feel better, and while I was sitting there, he talked to me about what he did, which was ketamine treatments. And I can't believe I'm even talking about this because when it happened, I was like, I'm never telling anyone this.
I've never gotten high. I've never been into drugs.
No judgment, just wasn't me. But here this doctor is saying ketamine, which is also a drug people give someone like on a date to knock him out.
So that's kind of scary. But they found that using ketamine on soldiers that had PTSD, PTSD, I know, eliminated some anxiety and depression severely.
So he told me this. I, of course, went home, did the studies and thought nothing has ever worked for me.
I can't feel like this every single day. Days I didn't wanna get out of bed and I'm running a business now with 20 people on my team, there's just no way this is gonna serve me and it got really bad in 2021.
And so I did it, I did a ketamine protocol. It was over, I think six weeks and I had to go into his office twice a week, I did this.
You kind of feel high when you do it, and you stay there until you feel good. I always had my husband drive me home, but I did this for six weeks, and after that, boom, it was gone.
And I can't even believe that. I'm not suggesting anyone do it.
Talk to your doctor. However, it changed my life.
And now, every six months, I might a little of that black cloud and I go in for what is called a tune up and it's gone again. So without talking about anxiety yet, the depression part, that is what I did and it changed my life.
Oh my God. And I love that story, Amy.
First of all, I personally had PTSD. Okay, so you get it.
So I came to the U.S.

I get it very well.

And I came to the U.S. because of PTSD.

My entire country is probably in PTSD right now.

What you're sharing, I think, is just so, so, so true

because I think there's a little bit of

almost like we're not supposed to talk about anything mental,

anything that is going wrong.

You're always supposed to be bright and sunny and everything is pink and purple. So first of all, thank you for sharing that.
To me, this is so important. And I have to touch this for a second because entrepreneurship for me is one of the biggest roller coasters for sure in my life.
And I think even as an investor, one of the things that we understand is that the biggest problem is to invest in people that once the down comes, that near-death experience is going to take it down. They're just never going to be able to continue in that.
It feels like literally near-death experience. So, Amy, how did you manage to build such an incredible empire with this? You know, I've never been asked this question, and I love this question.
It's kind of amazing what we can do even at our lowest points, even when we're not our very best. And I think for me, I wanted it so bad.
We talk about freedom, and sometimes entrepreneurship looks nothing like freedom,

but you are building a life on your terms, like you said,

and I wanted that more than anything.

I had worked in corporate since I was 30.

I grew up with a really strict father

telling me what to do, and it was his way or the highway.

I just thought that's how life was.

Then I get into all these corporate jobs,

and typically it was a man I was working for telling me what to do their way or the highway. And I got to a point that I thought, I don't want anyone telling me what to do ever again.
Like I just hit that point, and I knew that. I wanted freedom.
I wanted to work when I wanted, where I wanted, and how I wanted, and I did not want to be told what to do. And so with that, on even my darkest days, I knew what I wanted.
And I know that I'm speaking to an audience right now that many of you do not want to leave your corporate jobs. You are on your way up the ladder.
You love it. And believe me, I loved that.
So I get that. But also just thinking about what is it for you that you just won't stand for? Whether you're staying a corporate job or build your own business, what is it for you? Why do you do what you do? What are your values? Getting really clear on that, even on your darkest days, they peek through.
Those values, those desires peek through. And I think for me, it absolutely did.
And then one more thing. I have a really supportive husband.
I joke, my husband, so long story short, I met my husband at Tony Robbins because I had a really good girlfriend that was head of HR. And I would go into her office all the time.
And she had a little picture of her husband on her desk. And I used to very inappropriately say, your husband is so hot.
Like he is a good looking guy. She would laugh.
And then about a year after I met her, we were very good friends. They got a divorce.
And about six months after that, she called me up and said, I want to set you up with my ex-husband. And so I married one of my very best friend's ex-husband.
And the three of us raised their child, who was four at the time. The three of us parented Cade, who I call my son, and it's been an incredible experience.
I'm very, very lucky. But I bring that up to say, I think divorced men are great to marry because they've been through a lot.
They never wanna go through that again, and they try even harder. So it's a little joke, but very true as well.
But I have a husband that cares deeply about my success, and he was by my side every step of the way. And that's another thing.
Having someone in your court, a mom, a dad, a friend, a sister, a brother, a spouse, it means everything. So you got to find your person that's going to pick you up and push you out when it just isn't working for you.
Right. And to me, that's so important.
And the other thing that I will say, and I do want to eventually talk just a little bit about how we build online courses, but in a second, because I truly believe that no matter what, even if somebody is in corporate, in today's world, we all have portfolio careers. and the more you understand the notion of portfolio careers and actually creating these ripple effects for yourself,

for your reputation, for your safety net, for ageism,

for, you know, whatever, the more you see it,

the more you can really create life on your terms, even if it is in corporate, but then you start expanding. So I want to go there, but just for a second, in the two weeks notice, you have an incredible book, highly recommended folks, if you are considering leaving corporate.
But tell me a little bit about, first of all, writing that book and what are some of the biggest things that you want people to shift when they read the book? Okay, for those who are wanting to leave a nine to five slash corporate job and do their own thing, there's something I really believe, but anyone thinking they love their job, they wanna stay in their nine to five,

I want them to have earmuffs,

because this is not for you.

It's for someone that has a desire to do their own thing.

One of the things I talk about in the book,

what is true for me and true for many of my students

and peers is that the worst day as an entrepreneur,

everything's not working.

You've lost a bunch of money.

Everything is falling apart.

The worst day as an entrepreneur is better than the best day in a nine to five job. And I believe that to my core.
And the reason, this is only for those who wanna leave, the reason for that is because it's on my terms. It might not always go my way, but at the end of the day, I get to make the decisions.
And if you have that huge desire, I think knowing that is a way to kind of push you to explore a little bit more. So that's one of the core messages in that book.
Another core message is this idea of life on your terms. And you're right, you could still have a life on your terms whether you are in a job or you go out on your own when you get clear on what that looks like.
And so pursuing that and going after that is so incredibly important for the value of your life and those of your family and friends. So important to have that really clear in your life.
And then another thing, because the book is about how to quit your job and go after your nine to five, is how to do that. One of the core messages is what does that transition look like? I didn't wake up one morning and think I'm leaving my beautiful Tony Robbins job and starting my business tomorrow and everything's going to work.
What I did is I said, okay, I'm going to take baby steps. First, I asked if I could work from home two days a week.
The business was in a transition and so I just went for it and they said yes. Then I asked if I could go to 20 hours a week and work on just one main event with the content.
They said yes. And then I eventually said, I'm going out on my own.
Not until I had a few clients under my belt and had a little plan of what I was going to do. The plan fell out the window and the first two years were a disaster, but at least I thought I had a plan.
And so just that transition of what that looks like,

we get into that in detail in the book as well.

And I love that, Amy.

Take us a little bit to some of these challenges

because I think it is really important to hear that.

I think my hard moments as an entrepreneur

are a lot harder than anything

I've ever went through in corporate.

But talk to me about some of these challenges,

especially in the beginning. I think a lot of our folks really need to hear it because I think sometimes it's like, oh, but I really posted this thing and the clients didn't come.
Okay, I quit. I'm like, yeah, well, not quite.
It takes a little more than that. I think that the first two years of entrepreneurship are brutal.
I think they're really, really hard because you just hit it on the head. You think that if someone told me to post three times a week and do X, Y, Z, and I did it and it's not working.
I hear this from my own students. I teach the list building, I teach course creation.
I was on a live Q and A today and someone said, Amy, I followed exactly what you told me to do to a T and it didn't work. And I said, sometimes you gotta stay in the game

a little longer until it does

because I had the same exact experience.

So one of the biggest challenges

is thinking it's gonna work faster than it does

and then making it mean something about you

when it doesn't.

I'm not cut out to be an entrepreneur.

I think I said every day to my husband,

I'm gonna have to go grovel back for my Tony Robbins job.

Like I'm gonna have to beg him to take me back.

Thank you. present.
I'm not cut out to be an entrepreneur. I think I said every day to my husband, I'm going to have to go grovel back for my Tony Robbins job.
Like I'm going to have to beg him to take me back. This is not working.
He's a former Navy SEAL. And there was this thing that they always say, just one more day, just one more day.
And so he's like, just one more day, stick with it one more day. And every day he would say that.
So it's much harder than you think. And that is part of the journey.
So if you just understand it's gonna be hard and it is part of the journey and it's not all supposed to work out in the beginning, that is something so important to know. Here's another one of the challenges that one of the biggest challenges that I wish someone taught me that I was never taught and then I learned later in my business is when is enough enough? So as an entrepreneur, we do launches and we promote and we want clients, and it feels like we're always chasing our last goal.
So if I made $10,000 on this launch, I want to make $20,000 on that. $20,000 leads to $50,000.
$50,000 leads to $100,000. Like every single time, grow, grow, grow, build, build, build.
And I did hit the $100 million mark. But there was a moment, I've never talked about this before, for what? For what? Because I have a lot of money, I have a beautiful life, but I don't need to keep chasing a bunch of revenue.
I'd rather focus on the impact I make to my students and work with my team and build beautiful content. And I'm not just saying that because I have the money.

I'm saying I wish someone told me years ago so I could get clear on what my enough is

because I've worked myself to the ground at times.

Not always.

I have my seasons of working too hard

and I come out of it and I feel very free

and I have a lot of time,

but there's been moments that I've worked way too hard.

For what?

So get clear on what enough is for you

and then go out and enjoy your life

Thank you. free and I have a lot of time, but there's been moments that I've worked way too hard.
For what? So get clear on what enough is for you and then go out and enjoy your life and not chase the dollar every minute. I love that you said that, Amy, and I think it's so rare to hear it.
One of the things that we do with our clients is, first of all, define their must-haves. And you're right, sometimes it is finance.
Like, I just need to make the gives me confidence or I might, for me, I wanted to make more than my husband, you know, it was like a thing. And sometimes it's kind of more growth.
Like I want a new possibilities, new opportunities, titles, whatever. Sometimes it's impact.
I need to move the needle. Sometimes it's balance, but no matter what, nothing will give you all four.
You need to choose the two that are critical for you. The two others will be a compromise, but it changes all the time.
And I think one of the things that we don't realize is how much it changes and to understand that it's okay that right now I just want freedom. I just want fun.
I want experiences. And I think you implemented it beautifully with your own team too.
So take us there for a second, because I think just understanding these must-haves,

but also not letting society dictate the must-haves for you,

I think is really, really important.

That's such another point.

I had a woman named Tara McMullen on my podcast,

and she talked about what success looks like,

and it's different for everybody.

And she says, you think you should be doing something.

You think you have to be doing something.

This is the right way to do it.

Says who?

So let's go. And it's different for everybody.
And she says, you think you should be doing something. You think you have to be doing something.
This is the right way to do it. Says who? So like taking out all those constraints and what you think you should be doing, what ultimately serves you? And I love that message.
And it's not a message that I was familiar with until recently in terms of what that could look like. So today I'm 16 years in.
So I have a team of 20 full-time employees all across the U.S. But if we go back many, many years, it took me at least five, if not seven years to hire my first full-time employee.
So I had an assistant. She started up five hours a week.
I was paranoid I couldn't pay her. Then she went to 10 and she became a central part of my business.
But my first real money-making hire was a project manager in marketing. And she became my right hand, then became my CMO of my company and stayed with me for seven years.
And that role was so paramount because I realized it's very lonely building your own business. And having a sidekick in the business that you ultimately trust and you can run ideas by, that was a game changer for me.
So that was my first hire, but it was at least five years in. I'd used contractors, but didn't have any employees.
And so fast forward to where we are today. And one of the best perks that I've given my team is a four-day work week.
And so we work Monday through Thursday, regular eight-hour days, and we take off Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Sometimes during a promotion, we'll work on a Friday.
But the goal is for the majority of Fridays, we are not working. And selfishly, I wanted this for me.
I just didn't want to work five days a week. But then I thought, I love my team so much.
I can't possibly take the day off knowing everyone else is working. That just is not my personality.
I'd love to say that I'm that girl. I cannot.
And so I gave it to everyone. It was the best decision I made.
And the year that we did it, we read a book called Shorter. It's a great book.
I highly recommend it. A lot of corporations are examples in this book, not entrepreneurs, but corporations, big businesses, small businesses.
And one of the things in the book said, just experiment. So just do 90 days of four-day work weeks and then reevaluate what worked, what didn't, where are we struggling? But the day I went to my leadership team, I thought I was going to be the best boss in the world.
And I presented to my leadership team, I want to go to a four-day work week for everyone. And instead of saying, you're the best boss ever.
We love you. This is so cool.
They said, you have lost your mind. We can't get this much work done on four days.
There's no way. And I was like, oh no, I thought this was the greatest thing ever.
But I was convinced that we could figure this out. And so they all got on board with me.
They all read the book. We figured it out.
And I'm proud to say it's been at least three years that we've had a four-day work week and we did not lose money. I thought we'd lose money the first year.
We absolutely did not. And that's incredible.
And again, now you're creating not just a paycheck, but the life that you want with the paycheck. And I think that's just so incredible to watch.
Yes. And the other thing that you talked about, you mentioned a little bit when your team pushes back, but that's your team and they love you, etc.
But what do you do is, and you talk about it a little bit in the book, you don't need everyone to pay attention or to love you. It's not sure exactly how you say it, but it's something around there.
But that's also very, very hard, especially when you're coming from, I think you're like me, like you like people to like you and you know, like you want to please, right? And we came to this because we want to also do good in the world, right? So how do you deal with hate or bashing? It's really easy in the digital age. There's a lot of frustration with clients or with ads or with whatever.
So talk to us a little bit about it. I feel like that's a common one, right? Like it's, you need a thick skin.
Yeah. And for some people thinking about doing their own thing, that could stop them in their tracks.
Like no way. I can't put myself out there because people are mean online.
And the truth is they are. Just today when I mentioned that Q&A, one of my students said, I had two social media posts that went viral last week, which is a very big deal.
And she said, the hate on those posts have crushed me. She had two employees that were disgruntled.
They were really good friends. So they kind of banded together and they just have taken over those posts.
And a few things that I told her. Number one, this is going to happen.
It's your social media account. You block them, you hide the posts, and they do not need to be anywhere in your world.
Now, they could go create little stupid accounts that come in, you don't know who they are, but you just do your best, but it will never be foolproof. The other thing is that you just need a tiny sliver of the internet to pay attention for you to be profitable.
There are over 7 billion people in this world, but if you started your business and 20 people hired you, that could be a lot of money. So you need to know that not everybody needs to like you or agree with you in order for you to be ultra successful online.
And that is something that really is important for people to understand and not everyone will like you. And here's the worst part about it.
The bigger you get, the more haters you have. So I definitely have people that do not like me and I am a people pleaser.
I have gone to therapy over this. Why wouldn't this person that I really like not like me back? And we've had to work on that and I've had to let it go.
Which leads me to my final thing and that is, Mel Robbins wrote a book. She's a dear friend of mine.
She wrote a book called Let Them. Anyone who is struggling with people pleasing, worrying about what others think, or being deeply hurt by other people's habits or behaviors or anything that they're doing reflecting on you, you have to read the book, Let Them.
It is a powerful message, and it has really changed my life. Wow.
I just saw this book, and I saw Mel Robbins' opera. I'm like, oh my God, I have to read this because I think this is probably where mine and I think a lot of our audience is like, oh, my God, but what will people say? And what if they don't like it? It takes a toll.
I can feel it even with me. And it just starts to stack the evidence, right? And again, if you think you can't achieve it, you won't achieve it, right? So you're stacking the evidence of see, now they hit me.
Now is that going to work? Yes. That's so true.
Like I knew this would happen. You kind of manifested it.
So yeah. Totally.
You're talking a little bit about the first few years getting the first clients, but also when you start scaling, that has its own challenges of how do you scale and fear of money and what if I will go broke and now the expenses are really big. How do you cope with that? And did you need to go through some mindset exercises or imposter syndrome, self-doubt? I mean, they all come in when you're growing.
I think that when you want to do big things in your life, whether it's quit your job and start your business

or other big things, but stay in your job,

one of the things that is absolutely necessary

is to work on your mindset on a regular basis.

When I worked for Tony Robbins,

one of the things he said

that I never have gotten out of my mind

is that building a business and being an entrepreneur

and having success just in general,

even not an entrepreneur, just having success, 80% is mindset, 20% is mechanics, like the strategies and techniques, 80% mindset. So you can bet that since I've started, I've been in masterminds.
I've always had some kind of a coach. I read all the self-help books that I can get my hands on, and I have an audio book in my ear or a podcast,

reworking my mindset on a regular basis.

My mind is a very dangerous place if it goes unattended.

So mindset is a huge, huge piece of the puzzle for me,

but I wanna talk about money mindset

because this is one that I've definitely dealt with.

Many, many years ago,

I had just hit a million dollars in a calendar year. It was like three years into my business.
And I was in a mastermind with a bunch of my peers. And there's this one guy in my mastermind that was just brilliant, doing brilliant things with paid advertising and all this stuff.
So one day I asked him, hey, will you help me do that in my business, that paid ad strategy? I'll give you a cut of my sales. And he said, I can do one better.
let me be your business partner. Now, I'd like to tell you that I spent weeks mulling over this, talking to a lawyer, talking to my husband, really thinking, is this the right move? I just hit a million dollars, this business is working.
Took me one night where I said yes, one night's sleep. And the reason for that is I was insecure, I thought that this was a fluke, my success was going to go away.
I couldn't do it alone. I've always needed or had a man in my life, my dad and my bosses, to guide me.
I need him. And so he came into my business.
He did not pay a penny to come into it. He got 50-50.
These are decisions I made at a young age, and we killed it. For the next few years, my business went from a million to three to five beyond.
It did really well for several years, I think about three full years. And then I realized this is the worst decision for me.
I'm losing my voice. I'm letting him be my boss.
It's not his fault. It's mine.
But my business became his. And so I literally would get on a call with him.
I'd have 20 action items after the call. He'd have zero, like he was running the show.
And I thought, I have lost myself. So I needed to get out of the partnership.
And I said to him, I need to get out. This is not working for me.
I wanna get my business back. Let's talk about what it's going to take.
And the first thing he said was, this is going to be bad for you. And I said, why? And he said, because of how you are with money.

And in that time, I was so offended,

have no idea what he was talking about.

He was absolutely right in terms of how I was with money.

I held onto it so tight.

I thought it would go away so quickly.

I thought it was a fluke.

I was scared to spend it.

And when you're like this with money,

I promise you it does not flow into your life. And so what I've learned over the years is to hold money loosely, be strategic with it, but spend it, use it to invest in yourself, invest in your business, because when you're making good decisions and spending money, it will come back to you.
And so that was one thing I really needed to learn, hold it more loosely, but strategically. And so I really struggled with money in the beginning, thinking I need to hold onto it as much as I can.
And that did not serve me. That's an incredible insight, Amy, because I think our instinct, this is how we grow up, right? It's like save, save, save, save, right? And the truth is you're gonna have to invest and lean in.
And to some extent, what's really hard, and one of the things that I say to our clients, and I'm sure you felt

it, is we move from deciding if then else, like if I get this raise, or if I get this promotion,

then I can pay for this. But as a leader, you have to switch the order, right? I have to invest

first, and I'll see the ROI later. And that is probably the biggest muscle that takes to build

I'm not going to. I will see return later.
And it's like, nobody teaches you how to shift that priority, right? And that mindset. And I just love that.
I love that you said this. I have a good friend who sold this business for over $100 million.
Him and his wife started it from scratch. They exited with over $100 million.
And his philosophy is buy the ticket. You want to go on that flight.
You want to do this. You want to do that.
I'll do it when he says buy the ticket. And I really do think that is a mindset of abundance, that more opportunities are going to come your way and you don't have to wait for it for a special time.
So anyway, I love that way of thinking. So tell me, Amy, if somebody is listening to you and maybe talk a little bit about what is this online courses thing? Because some people have no clue what you're talking about.
And again, some of them are clients, so they've seen a little bit. But what is this online course thing? What I do is I help people take their knowledge and know-how and turn that into a digital course that they can then sell over and over again.
So for example, you work in a corporate job. You are really good at leadership.
You are great at building leaders, fostering leaders, curating leaders, negotiating, all that good stuff a great leader does. You would take that knowledge and put it into a digital course to teach other people how to be a leader in your unique way.
And then you would sell that course through webinars, boot camps, different strategies online, paid advertising to get it out there. So some people start their online business with a digital course.
I essentially did. It was the first main moneymaker in my business.
Other people just add a digital course to what they're already doing in their business as like a supplement. And some people just have a side hustle.
They've got a course based on their expertise and when they have time and energy,

they sell it over different times during the year.

But the whole goal is one to many.

What I knew I didn't want early on is to work one-on-one because there's only one of me

and there's only certain hours in the day.

So if all I did was work one-on-one,

I would definitely hit a cap in revenue.

And so working one course, I created it one time

to many people who could buy it, it opens the doors.

And I think that's a cap in revenue. And so working one course, I created it one time to many people who could buy it, it opens the doors.

And so I first created courses

teaching social media marketing.

They did really well and people started saying,

how are you selling your courses?

What are you doing to create them and sell?

When I got enough questions like that,

I moved my whole business

into helping people create digital courses.

We're gonna need to talk at some point because I think it's such a beautiful part of this portfolio career that people, I think, really need to figure out how to do. And there's a way to be really intentional, strategic about it.
And once you do it the right way, it's not about throwing spaghetti on the wall and see what sticks. But if you do it in a strategic way, that will actually catapult your reputation, your personal brand, your public speaking, your revenue, your, you know, like, it's just incredible to see people zoom up the titles, people, you know, create businesses, people like, it's just amazing to see the impact of doing this right.
And again, it changed my life having this kind of a course. And finally, for people who are listening, or what would be like an advice to your younger self, maybe in terms of the mindset or in terms of the doubts or the fears, or talk to me a little bit about that.
With the anxiety, I didn't experience that until about three years ago. And when I first felt it, I have no idea what this is.
What is this feeling? Why is it coming up? And so that coupled with the depression, not a really great combination. So I've had anxiety for a few years now.
I take medication for it. It was the only thing.
I tried everything. Once I hit medication, it was the best thing for me.
And so I wanted to come back to that because I know I mentioned that came later, but that was also a big part of this. But if I was speaking to my younger self or I was talking to someone that was just getting into wanting to do their own thing or adding their own thing as a side hustle to what they're already doing, I know this is so cliche, but it is so true.
I've lived it for 16 years. Make the mistakes.
You have to let yourself make mistakes. I grew up always wanting to be a good girl.
I wanted my dad to think I was a good girl. I didn't wanna make mistakes.
I got straight A's in high school. All of that stuff created so much stress.
No wonder I have anxiety as an adult. So I wish my family, my dad, my mom said, make those mistakes, it's okay.
Do what you gotta do because it will shape you. And they have.
I will tell you, I have made many mistakes over 16 years, including letting someone have 50% of a multimillion dollar business. And everything that didn't work out was the biggest lesson to something really good.
So the story of getting out of the partnership, we didn't have a real contract. And so again, ridiculous.
So we had to get lawyers involved. Never worked with a lawyer in my life.
I had to pay for one. It was expensive.
So did he. And we got to the point of mediation.
Scariest day of my life. We mediated.
He was in one room. I was in another.
We didn't even talk to each other, but we came to a conclusion of what I needed to pay him to get him out of my business. We made $5 million the final year he was in my business.
18 months later, we made $16 million.

This mistake allowed me to find my voice and do something bigger and be courageous.

It would have never happened if I didn't have this horrible experience with a partnership.

So make your mistakes, learn your lessons, allow yourself to experiment, because I promise you that is what unlocks the success. Ah, my God, mic drop, Amy.
This is so good. Oh my God, I love this story so much, Amy.
Thank you for sharing such a beautiful, with so much honesty and so much openness. And I'm just rooting for you so much.

Like, it's just incredible to watch you. And just thank you for sharing, Amy.

Yes, it's been so great to get to know you a little bit more before I came on the show. I

was doing my research and I'm like, this girl's killing it. I love talking to other entrepreneurs

that are making things happen. So it was really a pleasure to get invited.

Thank you so much, Amy. Thank you.
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Also, if you're feeling stuck or simply want more from your own career,

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Ilana Gulancho.