Episode 680: Frederic Bourdin and the Disappearance of Nicholas Barclay

Hey, weirdos.

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I have been listening to the Martha's Vineyard Beach and Book Club, which actually Elena recommended to me.

She did not listen to it, but she said, girl, this title sounds so you.

And let me tell you, it did.

I've been listening to it while I walk and I am absolutely loving it.

I love all the different narrators.

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Visit audible.com/slash morbid.

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Hey, weirdos, I'm Ash and I'm Elena, and this is Morbid.

This is morbid.

It's morbid in the late morning.

I'm tired.

I know.

You know when you sleep too, like, not to brag, but you know, when you sleep too good,

it's like when your hair is too soft.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah, it happens.

Actually, guys, my hair was too soft this morning.

I had to put some dry shampoo in.

Her hair is too soft and she slept too good.

I know, and my skin's too clear.

And my skin is actually not very clear right now.

You're just really, you're struggling.

I know.

Really out here.

I have your thoughts and prayers everybody i have i have prayers up for us

prayers up for me i have a couple spots on my face that i had to conceal don't feel today so you know just like when i say prayers up just like you i'm in perfect

ash she's just like us this is an off-putting intro it is very off-putting imagine if this is the first uh the first episode someone chooses to listen to christ almighty they're out sorry you're gone we lost it was nice knowing you i'm a good person i swear

i'm a good person.

I swear.

No.

We're a little silly today.

We are.

A little bit silly.

I'm hungry, so that's going to play a role in this episode.

Like, I just ate my weight and chia seed pudding.

Good for you, man.

It was fucking good.

I have pineapple next to me if you want some.

She does.

Like you over there.

Like Elena, if you want some.

Elena.

I have some.

If I could, I would give you the pineapple through the speaker.

Weirdo, but I haven't quite figured that out yet.

Thank you.

I appreciate that.

I bet you.

I'll wait until after the episode.

Yeah, it's weird to eat on Mike.

Yeah, I don't want to give you guys like a mesophonia moment.

That's pretty fucking gross.

Yeah, if you, oh, one fun thing is if you haven't listened to The Rewatcher yet, what the fuck are you doing?

Dumbass.

We're in the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer over there, and then we're moving on to another show.

The way that I was just about to say.

Yeah.

Just boop.

No more notes.

We have not announced that yet.

We're not telling you, but I think it'll be one that you'll be excited about because it's a lot of fun.

Yeah.

And if you don't know what we're talking about, we have another show called The Rewatcher.

We cover Buffy the Vampire Slayer.

I've never seen it.

Or like I've seen a couple episodes, but for the most part, I've never seen it.

And Elena has and Mikey has.

Yeah.

And now we're going into another show that I have literally never seen even a single episode.

And Elena has and Mikey has.

Yeah, this

one is going to be.

Even more wild just because Ash, at least with Buffy, had seen like bits and pieces.

Yeah, just like growing up with you.

But this one, she's blind.

Yeah, completely, completely in the dark about.

So, this is going to be a real, real experience.

In fact, I was getting,

you guys were talking about it in code earlier.

Yeah, we were, me and Mikey were texting hilarious moments.

It was making me teeo'd.

And we said, don't worry, we'll show you this conversation when they come up.

You did.

That was nice.

That was nice of you because I was like.

But there's something really fun with it, too, that we'll get to announce soon.

A little added fun thing with that that um season of the rewatcher is there yes we were just talking about it

oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i was like what

anyway uh so yeah go check it out if you haven't watched the listen to the rewatcher yet it's a lot of fun over there it is fun and i think you guys will dig it yeah and we do scream too so listen to scream with kaleb with caleb we listen to or we we listen to and watch horror movies we do both we cover them and we all pick a different one every week and it gets pretty fucking crazy.

It does.

It gets funny over there.

Yeah, it gets silly.

So if you need, if you needed to round out your morbid listening experience, I highly recommend that.

Just a whole bunch of Elena and Ash.

Yeah, yeah.

In France.

In France.

In France.

All right.

Well, I have a weird fucking case for you today.

Yeah, you do.

I know this case, like I knew of it, but I didn't know all the details.

This is the case of Frederick Borden and the disappearance of Nicholas Barclay.

Interestante.

It is an interesting case.

It's pretty sad, but fascinating.

And you're just like, how the fuck did this happen?

And I'll tell you how.

I am wondering, Matt.

So let's start at the beginning, which is June of 1994.

Nicholas Barclay was 13 years old, and he got into an argument with his mom over something pretty trivial.

Nobody really knows like exactly what they were arguing about, but it was a pretty common occurrence between the two of them to be fighting.

So Nicholas was definitely a troubled kid.

He had a lot going on.

We'll get into some of it later.

But

that specific day, his mother, Beverly Dollarheide, was really just in no mood to entertain this argument.

So rather than continue it all, she gave Nicholas $5 and she was like, Go play basketball with your friends.

Like, get out of the house.

Yeah.

A few hours later, after his friends had gone, like all gone home, Nicholas called the house to ask his mother to pick him up.

But his half-brother, Jason, picked up the phone and told him that their mom was sleeping and he didn't want to have to wake her up.

So he was like, you got to walk home.

And hours and hours passed, and Nicholas never did return home.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

What an, that's such a sad way to, you know, just the thing that they were arguing.

Yeah.

They were arguing and then also being like, no, I'm not coming to get you.

Yeah.

Walk home.

Oh, that's sad.

So sad.

So at first, the family thought that Nicholas probably ran away and they assumed, you know, he'd just be back soon.

His sister, Carrie Gibson, said he'd run away before for a night or two.

He was mad at mom and said, I'm leaving.

I'll find a new mom and a new home.

He was not this nice, sweet, innocent kid.

He was a very street-smart city boy.

But Nicholas didn't return after three days.

So Beverly filed a missing persons report at that point.

He's 13.

Yeah.

And he's been gone for three days.

Yeah, that's nice.

The likelihood of them finding him at this point is pretty low.

Yeah.

So when the news that Nicholas had gone missing was made public, shockingly, it didn't come as a surprise to anybody familiar with the family.

According to neighbors, the police would visit the house a few times per month because the arguments between Beverly and the kids or between Beverly and her boyfriend got so heated.

yeah it seemed to be a pretty known fact that

nicholas was a difficult child he was constantly getting into loud arguments with his mom he was fighting with his brother jason and he had been known to run away from home on occasion beverly said he thought he was an adult we called him 13 going on 30.

it was very difficult to discipline him if he made his mind up he was going to do something there wasn't much i could do so when he was reported missing No one outside the family seemed particularly alarmed.

His disappearance never made the news.

It wasn't news to them.

It was just news to us.

Just sad.

Yeah.

So weeks and weeks passed, but there was no sign of Nicholas anywhere.

No one heard from him at all.

The belief that he had just like run away pretty soon gave way to the belief that actually there might have been some kind of foul play involved.

Beverly said, I thought somebody offered him a ride and he got into the car.

I think he would have gotten into a car with someone who kidnapped him.

That's so scary.

I know.

Those weeks turned into months, the months turned into years, and it seemed like Nicholas was never coming back.

Then, out of nowhere, in the fall of 1997, three years after he had disappeared, the family got a call from the U.S.

Embassy in Spain saying they had found Nicholas in a children's home and that he was desperate to return home.

Can you even begin

to imagine this?

Like this,

like that would be unthinkable.

Like you're just getting a call from a foreign embassy and they're just like, hey, your kid's here.

Yeah.

Just showed up.

And how long was this again?

Three years.

Three years later.

Think of how long three years is.

Yeah.

Like three years is an eternity.

An eternity.

So, and every single day waking up, just like filling in the blanks of what happened to your kid.

And then you get a call like, oh, he's, he's just here.

And now he's in the country.

Yeah.

Like.

You'd be

you'd be, I feel like the mix of complex emotions that you would be feeling would be so overstimulating because you'd be like, it's like excitement, grief for what they could have potentially been through.

How did they get there?

Who is with them?

What have they been dealing with?

How'd they get all the way to fucking Spain?

Are they okay in Texas?

Yeah.

Like, holy shit.

Yeah.

Well, according to the Spanish authorities, Nicholas had told them very little and was, by all accounts, very deeply traumatized by what had happened to him.

From what they could piece together, this is like a little bit triggering.

Nicholas had been kidnapped from Texas by human traffickers who sold him into essentially sexual slavery until he was able to escape after three years of enduring that abuse.

He ended up being discovered by two French tourists who were in Spain at the time, and they found him by the side of the road near a diner and just called the police.

After conducting a basic interview with him,

the authorities were convinced that he was an American and they were eager to return him to his family.

His family obviously was elated by the news that after three years with no answers, their son and their brother, their loved one, was coming home.

His sister Carrie coordinated everything with the embassy and she made plans herself to immediately travel to Spain to be the one to bring her brother home.

But because of the circumstances of his disappearance, the case ended up being transferred to the FBI, who would now be opening an investigation and vowed to capture the men who had kidnapped him in the first place.

But this complicates things, obviously.

Oh, massively.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So when Carrie arrived in Spain to meet her brother, she really really didn't know what to expect.

I would have no idea what to expect.

From what she'd been told, he had experienced horrific abuse at the hands of his kidnappers.

And obviously she knew that going through an experience like that will leave some kind of long-term emotional effect on a person.

Absolutely.

Like psychological scars.

And she also knew that three years had passed and that in that time, Nicholas would have changed physically, especially when you think about the jump from 13 to 16.

Oh, for sure.

That's a big jump.

Yeah.

So it seemed likely that maybe she wouldn't recognize him immediately.

Despite having prepared herself for the worst, when they finally met in Spain, Carrie didn't have much trouble recognizing her brother.

She said he had changed somewhat, but as far as she could tell, he was Nicholas.

That said, there were things about him that did give her pause.

She said he talked with a funny accent, but it was always a whisper, very quiet, like he was hiding.

Hmm.

She also noticed that his eyes, which were always a very vibrant blue, if you look up pictures of him, he has like striking eyes.

Now they were light brown.

So that's weird.

Yeah, that doesn't happen.

Yeah.

The handlers from the embassy explained that while he was being held captive, the abusers would beat him if he spoke English.

So he learned to speak in a way that would please them.

And they explained that according to Nicholas, the captors had also injected his eyes with some sort of solution to change their color.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

And as for his quiet, skittish behavior, obviously Carrie rationalized it by reminding herself that he had been severely tormented and traumatized.

Yeah.

So that was going to change his behavior around others.

For sure.

You know?

So that night, she spent hours going through an old photo album with her brother, just giving him updates on everybody, reminiscing, pointing out people, being like, you remember auntie, you remember uncle, this like mom, you must miss mom.

Yeah.

And he said very little, but he seemed interested.

And she said she could tell that he loved seeing the pictures.

But before they could leave Spain and return to Texas, the U.S.

Embassy obviously needed to certify Nicholas's identity.

As far as Carrie could tell, it was her brother, but they needed actual

information to confirm that this was really him before they would issue him a passport.

Yes, of course.

So the following day, Nicholas met with a judge from the embassy who had devised a strategy to determine if this was, in fact, Nicholas Barclay.

In their meeting, the judge showed Nicholas five photographs of his family, his quote-unquote family.

and asked him to identify various people in those pictures.

He correctly identified the first four, but he was unable to identify the fifth person, like the person in the fifth image.

Huh.

Yeah.

Even though he hadn't been able to identify all five correctly, the judge reasons that four out of five was sufficient.

And the embassy issued him a new passport and he was off to return home to Texas.

I mean, I trauma.

That's the thing.

I can, I, there's like that element of

unthinkable trauma here.

Yeah.

That is playing a role in all of these decisions I feel like

three years

of being human trafficked I mean that's a

that's something most of us luckily fortunately can never even begin to conceive human trauma that would come to that taught to speak a different language injected

different language right like like injected in the eyes like big so I can see how they would be like okay yeah you got four of them maybe he's not gonna his memory's not gonna be as clear Right.

You know, you can see it.

You can kind of see it.

Yeah, of course.

So with all the details and the paperwork squared away, Carrie and Nicholas went to the airport the next day and they were, you know, prepared to leave Spain.

To Carrie, he seemed incredibly nervous about the flight or returning home, maybe a combination of both.

She said, I didn't understand why he was so nervous.

He was constantly watching people, watching me.

He was always watching me.

Which obviously she had some kind of strange feeling about it.

Yeah.

Once they got back home, though, Nicholas was welcomed with open arms by almost everybody in his family.

At first, the attention and warmth did seem to be overwhelming for him.

To the family, he seemed pretty shy, pretty withdrawn, obviously very guarded.

But like Carrie, they reminded themselves that he had undergone a profoundly traumatic experience.

So it made sense that he wasn't like super duper happy, you know, like he was before.

Yeah, of course.

So within a couple months, Nicholas did seem to relax and he was settling in.

He started hanging out with his old friends.

They were super happy to have him back, obviously.

And he even seemed to be kind of developing a crush on one of the girls in the neighborhood.

The change was positive, and it seemed to indicate that he was returning to his old self.

But there was still one big hurdle before he and the family would be able to put this whole thing behind them.

Because of the alleged kidnapping and the human trafficking, the FBI was obviously eager to pursue the case.

Yeah.

They wanted to speak with him immediately.

So after letting him get settled back in with his family, they scheduled a meeting with special agent Nancy Fisher, and Beverly and Nicholas sat down with her at the Texas Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Given what had happened, Nicholas was obviously eager to get through the interview as fast as he could and never talk about what had happened to him again.

Can't blame him.

Yeah.

While that would be easy to understand, though, there was still something about Nicholas and his behavior that struck Nancy Fisher as unusual.

Later, she said, not that people can't change in three years, but this person did not appear to be 16.

He had a shadow of a beard, a dark beard that I doubt Nicholas would have had at the age of 16, since he had blonde hair.

Yeah.

And if you do look at pictures of like when he was found three years later, he looks like he's in his 20s.

Oh, 100%.

Like he looks like a man.

Yeah, shocking.

It is.

Not to say that like every 16 year olds differently.

Like, you know.

Right.

Like some 16 year olds, you're like, holy shit, you look so much older.

Yeah.

This was, this was a little different.

But he also obviously appeared to be nervous and uncomfortable, but almost unusually nervous and uncomfortable.

But like the others, Nancy was like, he's been traumatized.

He's been brutalized, it's going to change a person, especially in this setting where they're disclosing the most horrific details about their abuse to a stranger.

So she gave him a little bit of a

little lead way.

Yeah.

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According to Nicholas, he said he had been abducted by the quote military overseas on the night that he went missing.

He said his captor approached him on the basketball court, chloroformed him, threw him in a van, drove to the airport, and they left the country.

He claimed that from then on they would move him around often.

He was always kept in rooms with other children that were also being trafficked, and they were regularly assaulted and sexually abused by high-ranking members of the military, he said.

In a report prepared after the interview, Nancy Fisher described various aspects of his abuse.

This is pretty graphic.

But she said, every night, all the kids were raped and molested by men.

These men were American, Mexican, European.

They kept burning him and giving him insects to eat.

His left foot was broken by a crowbar.

The boy's identity was changed by changing the hair, the hair color, eye color, or other ways.

His eye color was changed from blue to brown by use of a solution.

This is like horrific.

It is unimaginable things.

I can't even like go there.

I can't either.

Nicholas claimed that he only managed to escape that night because his captors forgot to close the door securely.

And that's how he got out.

Damn.

Yeah.

He said he got out of the building and just ran for hours until he he couldn't run anymore.

And that's when he was discovered by those two French tourists who obviously called the police.

Which you wonder at that point, you're like, so did anyone else try to escape?

That was my immediate thought.

I was like, literally just.

Didn't we be hearing that like other kids showed up?

Yeah, they left the door open and one kid's running.

I'm assuming most of them are.

Not everyone is going to run.

Obviously, there's fear, but there's going to be at least another one.

More than one.

Yeah.

So Fisher said later, this was a horrendous interview and I was shaken by it when I left because I felt all the horrific emotional side side effects that go with listening to such a story.

So she thanked Nicholas for being super candid with her, and she assured him they were going to find the people who had done this to him and bring them to justice.

Before leaving, she reminded the family that because this was an open and ongoing case, they really should avoid speaking with the press because it could compromise the investigation.

Despite the warning, the news about Nicholas's ordeal and his return home had already gotten out, and the family was constantly getting calls from reporters.

About two months after Nicholas had got home, private investigator Charlie Parker got a call from a producer at Hard Copy, the national news magazine program, and they wanted to do a story on Nicholas, but they were having trouble getting in touch with the family.

So it was their intention to hire Parker, who worked out of San Antonio, track the family down and get their consent to cover this story.

Parker actually had no difficulty getting hold of Beverly and Nicholas.

And to his surprise, they seemed pretty eager to share their story, which was not great because the FBI literally said that they literally just said don't do that.

And like anything the FBI tells me to do, I'm Prob's going to listen.

Yeah, if they say don't do that because it's going to compromise a giant child trafficking ring that they're trying to, you know, eradicate.

Take down.

Yeah.

Listen to that.

I don't listen.

Yeah.

No.

Just a few days after reaching out to the family, though, Parker found himself invited into the family home.

He was watching as the local news taped an interview with Nicholas just sitting in the living room.

In that specific interview, Nicholas is wearing a large jacket pulled up around his neck, a wide-brim hat, and dark sunglasses.

Okay.

Interesting.

His responses to the interviewer's questions are very short, very quiet, and delivered with a distinct, heavy French accent, which is fucking weird.

Yeah, like that would make you

people questioning this, I get it.

Yeah.

Like this is.

It's fucking weird.

It's strange.

I can't imagine my, like, like my child goes missing.

Three years later comes back with different eyes, a dark beard, and a fucking French accent.

that's it's the eyes that i'm having trouble yeah that would i would have but again like i understand

desperation yes can could also be playing a role into this that you are just desperate to have your child back and you will just kind of ignore the red flags because you're like i just want this to be him it's like the case that you covered the bobby bobby dunbar bobby dunbar case yeah it's like you just desperately want your child back so you'll just kind of put yourself in a headspace of like this has to be him.

Yes.

Because otherwise something terrible happened.

Otherwise he's gone.

Yeah.

I can't take that.

Right.

And I'm sure like

in some ways it would feel like don't rip this child away from me.

Like if you know, like, they're thinking like this is my child or even like they've convinced themselves.

You know, like they've convinced themselves.

And it's like, don't take him away again.

Yeah.

Exactly.

So Charlie Parker was watching the interview in a separate room where he could see Nicholas clearly.

And as it happened, he also found himself standing next to a photograph, an old photograph of Nicholas on the wall.

As he watched Nicholas being interviewed, his eyes just kept darting back and forth between the photograph and the young man in the other room.

And the more he examined the photo in front of him, the more he started, you know, kind of noting the differences between the two.

He said, there was a moment where the hair stood up on the back of your neck and there was just something wrong about it.

The fact that he just like knew.

He just like innately, exactly.

Yeah.

Not wanting to tip anybody off to his suspicion, though, the next day, Parker asked Beverly if she had a picture of Nicholas that he could borrow to kind of study some more.

Yeah.

And he remembered that, and this is interesting.

He remembered that when Martin Luther King Jr.

assassin James Earl Ray was arrested in London, the authorities used a comparison of his ear in those photographs or in a photograph of Ray in order to confirm his identity.

So Parker enlarged the photo of Nicholas and compared it to the photo of 16-year-old Nicholas in his passport.

And to his surprise, the boy's ears were not even remotely similar in the two photos.

And our ears don't change.

No.

It's entirely possible for somebody to dye their hair, change the way they speak, maybe even change the color of their eyes to seem like they're somebody else.

But again, our ears are like our fingerprints.

They're formed when we're very young.

And, you know, barring some kind of mutilation, they just don't change as we grow older.

Yeah.

So that being the case, Charlie Parker now had compelling evidence that the boy living in Beverly's house was not Nicholas Barker.

Which also is

fucking horrifying.

Terrifying.

Horrifying.

Like, I have goosebumps now.

Yeah.

Like, I've read through this multiple times.

I have goosebumps.

I can't.

So, fearing that the young man could be a spy or have some kind of nefarious intent, Parker called Nancy Fisher, special agent Nancy Fisher, to report his discovery.

And he was stunned to find that Fisher didn't seem too interested in what he had to say.

Huh.

In fact, the most she was willing to tell him was just be careful that he didn't intrude on a federal investigation unless he wanted to get charged with a crime.

Oh.

Yeah.

Later, she said, I thought I didn't have a right to question their statement that this was their family member, because how could they be wrong?

I mean, no one would be wrong about something like that.

Why would you ever take in a stranger, not just a stranger from this country, but a stranger from another country who speaks with a French accent?

This has to be Nicholas Barclay.

Which I, again, I understand that.

Totally.

That thought process.

Like, I totally get where they're coming from.

Like, I get that, but also you're an FBI agent.

Well, for sure.

That's the thing.

Like, I, that's, I tot, this is so fucked up.

Like this whole thing, because it's like, it's different because she's an FBI agent.

That's where, that's where, like, like, that's your job.

It's different because you're an FBI agent, but then at the, like, I was just saying that, but then at the same time, when the fuck do you run into that during your career?

Well, that's, and it's like, at this point, it's so hairy because you are questioning a grieving, a family who's been grieving for three years.

Yes, the loss of their child.

And it's like, and now they have this hope and they are telling you this is their family member.

They're like steadfast about it.

It must be a very strange position to be in to know that it is not.

Yeah.

And to be like, how are you not seeing it?

Right.

You know, like we think of the Bobby Dunbar case and we were saying like, how can you not know that's not your son?

I think

I think desperation plays a part of just controlling the part of your brain that logically tells you that is not your child.

It just shuts it off.

I think.

And I think when, unless you've been in that position, it's probably hard to

understand.

But looking from this point of view, you say, dear FBI agent, question that you got to question it.

If you ruffle some feathers, you ruffle some feathers.

You got to let it slick off your back and be like, sorry, I'm just doing my job.

Right.

Well, you know, we're here talking about it.

So, you know, something happened.

Exactly.

So Nancy Fisher might not have wanted to believe that they were dealing with a straight-up imposter, but there were others who were far less willing to entertain this whole charade.

As part of the FBI's investigation into the case, Nicholas was sent to see forensic psychologist Bruce Perry in order to collect more information about his claims about being trafficked.

He later said, Bruce said, I introduced myself and when he spoke back, immediately I thought something's wrong here.

As a contractor with the FBI, Perry had interviewed countless survivors of traumatic situations, actually unfortunately similar to those that Nicholas said he had gone through, and nothing about the boy's behavior seemed to support his story.

Most significantly, Nicholas spoke pretty casually about the details of this abuse that he supposedly went through without showing any of the physical and largely unconscious signs of somebody who's been abused.

There was also the fact that he seemed entirely incapable of speaking fluent English or speaking without an accent.

Like it seemed like he could not do.

Yeah.

Perry said, that told me about the development of his brain and the development of language.

You just cannot be raised for the first six or seven years of your life in an English-speaking home and not be able to speak English without an accent.

I can guarantee you that this kid was not raised in an English-speaking family.

Which it really is fascinating how people can like pick those little parts of your pathology and point to like, nope.

And just improves it.

You know what I mean?

And it's so fascinating just how the brain works and how even

you might so badly want to change that, but you just can't.

Like your brain is just wired that way.

Yeah.

So Bruce Perry reported his suspicion to Nancy Fisher.

And along with what she'd heard from Charlie Parker, at that point, she could not ignore the obvious fact that whoever it was who had returned home from Spain with Carrie Gibson was not Nicholas Barkhaus.

So fearing now that the family might be in danger, she immediately called Carrie Gibson, his sister, or quote unquote, and told her what they learned.

And to Nancy's great surprise, Carrie seemed uninterested in hearing that the young man living in their house was not her brother and may in fact be a dangerous person.

Oh.

Later, Carrie said she didn't remember Nancy Fisher putting it in like those exact words that this person might be dangerous.

Yeah.

But the fact remained that no matter how she phrased it, the family was determined to hold on to the belief that their lost loved one had come back to them.

Yeah.

And it seemed like nothing was going to change their minds, which you, like we're saying over and over again, you can understand this.

It's a sad situation.

It really is.

Very quickly, the Dollarheide family had gone from willing participants in an FBI investigation to now a serious obstacle in finding the truth.

A few days after Nancy Fisher informed the family about the potential danger, she actually went to Beverly's home to obtain permission to get a DNA sample from Nicholas, but the agents were met at the door with a very uncooperative Beverly.

Oh no.

Not only did she refuse to allow them near Nicholas, quote unquote, but when they pushed the issue, she threw herself onto the floor and started screaming, no, and you can't pick me up and you can't make me.

Yeah, which is sad.

It's the whole thing.

It's heartbreaking.

The whole thing is heartbreaking.

I mean, this is awful.

Yeah.

From Nancy Fisher's perspective, though, the change was remarkable.

She said she wasn't just apathetic.

She was hostile.

I no longer saw them as a grieving, victimized family.

I saw them as a questionable family.

There'd be no reason for them to accept a stranger into their lives unless there was something to hide.

Because she's looking at it like, yeah, this is a bit nefarious now.

Yeah.

Because I understand that you need to question that.

You need to say,

because you have to look at it from a totally, you know, unbiased point of of view, not living in the emotion of it all.

You need to be like,

why are you trying to keep this?

If I'm telling you, this could be a dangerous stranger, this is likely not your son.

Right.

Like, why can't we investigate this?

You know, but then you look at the family and you say,

well, I don't want you to put my loved one, who I think this is my loved one, through more trauma.

Right.

And I just want to go on with my life.

Right.

But you can see how it would look nefarious from the other side yeah and then the thing like it wouldn't be super traumatic to get a dna test to confirm your identity i don't think exactly you know like but again but i've never gone through this experience so who knows but while nancy fisher and the other fba the other agents from the fbi continued trying to work with the family private investigator charlie parker was kind of you know in the background there

He was tailing quote-unquote Nicholas everywhere he went at this point.

At times, he would reach out in the hope of forming a connection that would allow him to get more information.

And after about a week or two, his efforts seemed to pay off.

One afternoon, Charlie Parker invited quote-unquote Nicholas out for breakfast at a local restaurant, and they sat down together.

They apparently ordered some hot cakes.

And the conversation eventually turned to the night that Nicholas disappeared several years earlier.

Parker said, you really made your mother mad, referring to the fight that he had gotten in with his mother before he left to play basketball.

And at hearing that, the man sitting across from Charlie Parker put his fork down, looked up at Parker and said, she's not my mother and you know it.

I would

shit my pants.

Charlie Parker was probably like, wow, I thought that was going to be a lot more difficult.

Yeah.

And also

obviously Charlie Parker knew.

He fully knew.

Like he had gone, studied the ears and everything.

He knew innately he knew.

You don't go that hard unless you're pretty sure that you're right.

Right.

But then to have somebody confirm it must be just a whole different thing.

You must be orbiting at that point.

Like I would be shot into the Kuiper belt.

And then you're also like, okay, cool.

Who the fuck are you sitting across from me?

Who the fuck are you?

And two, what the fuck do we do next?

Yeah, like what do I do with this information?

Because now I know.

It's like, is the family going to take this?

Yeah.

And how are they going to take it?

Exactly.

So once the confession was out of his mouth, it didn't take long for the imposter Nicholas's story to fall apart.

A short time after that breakfast meeting with Charlie Parker, he was fingerprinted by the FBI, who ran the prints through the international database and almost immediately got a hit, which like fantastic.

Why the fuck didn't you just do that as a precaution originally?

Okay, thank you.

Cause my first question was going to be, wait a second.

They didn't fingerprint him?

Why didn't I think of that?

We could have started like that judge's idea was super cute and like super fun.

That should have been a family picture.

I think that's a good thing fingerprints.

Right.

Dental records.

The whole nine.

And what's wild is I didn't question earlier.

I think they didn't do fingerprints or dunk.

I think I probably just assumed they did.

I think I assumed they did.

And now I'm like, wait a second.

Yeah.

No, why wouldn't you do that to begin with?

Clear as day.

Yeah.

Wow.

Certainly is.

The fact that they didn't fingerprint him to begin with is mind-boggling.

Baffling.

Truly baffling.

My baffleds are baffled.

Truly.

So the young man who had been passing himself off as Nicholas Barclay for several months now, living in this family's home, was in fact 25-year-old, a 25-year-old old French man named Frederic Bourdine.

Yeah.

So see, there was a reason he looked that old.

Not only was he 25, he was a fugitive wanted by the Interpol on several counts of impersonating other people all around Europe.

Oh no.

They had been living with a motherfucking fugitive.

Oh no.

Can you like, can you imagine?

You think your 13-year-old son disappeared.

Like you're not only you think he did.

He did disappear.

Three years later, he comes back.

The FBI is like, yay,

he's back.

We showed him some photos.

He knows you guys.

It's great.

And then you find out you've been living with a 25-year-old French fugitive.

I'd be like, what the fuck?

Who did I piss off in a past life?

Seriously, I'd be like, what the?

When does it end?

Truly, when does it end?

Holy shit.

A 25-year-old French fugitive.

You've just been laying your head down at night with that man in your house.

Yeah.

Pretending to be your child.

And also, this guy,

what the fuck?

It's weird.

This family lost their 13-year-old child, and you prey upon that.

You gotta be, yeah, you gotta be the lowest form of scum.

He is a mentally ill human being.

He, I will say, has a very tragic backstory.

It by no means excuses what he did, but there's some psychological thing that played out here.

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So in retrospect, it obviously seems unbelievable that anybody would have looked at a 25-year-old man, specifically this 25-year-old man, and believed him to be 16-year-old Nicholas.

Like,

I was telling you I was doing this case and you looked at the pictures and you were like, how the fuck did I think that?

Yeah, but he had gone out of his way to make himself appear younger.

And when it came to manipulating people, he was a master manipulator still the difference between the two people is immediately apparent bourdeen himself said in a 2011 interview i mean who wouldn't see it yeah he himself was like yeah that's crazy yeah like i when i saw the pictures i was like um i don't know about that yeah i don't know about that one of these things is not like the other yeah so the revelation that nicholas was actually frederick bourdeen was a shock to many of the people who had you know closely followed this story or who were involved in this story but it also raised several new questions, chief among them, who the fuck was this guy and why did he want to impersonate an American teenager?

Given that his history is almost entirely self-reported and the fact that he is a consummate liar and con artist, it's pretty difficult to know how much of his personal history is true.

But throughout the last decade or so, it does seem like he has this kind of remarkable willingness to be honest about his life and his crimes.

So it's possible that he told the truth with regard to his history and his motives for this whole thing.

Yeah.

So Frederick Pierre Bourdeon was born June 13th, 1974 to a single mother, Guillain Bourdine, in Nanterre,

France.

Why can't I say France?

France.

France.

Why did I say it like a France?

France.

Anyway, at the time of his birth, his mother was very young and his father was an older man from Algeria and he was already married at the time.

So Ghilaine never told him about her pregnancy.

Not very prepared or very interested in being a mother, Frederick ended up being raised by his grandfather, who he claimed was an abusive racist who treated him very badly because he was mixed race.

Frederick said, before I was born, I already had the wrong identity.

I was already prepared not to know who I really was, which is really sad.

That is sad.

In a 2008 interview, Ghilane recalled that her son was, like any other child, totally normal in his early years, but she said she didn't have much experience with him when he was young.

Okay.

Yeah.

Just before he turned three, he was removed from the home and placed with her parents because of her lifestyle.

At the time, she was a heavy drinker.

She usually didn't have a job.

She was in no way fit to be a mother.

Yeah.

And besides all that, according to one relative, she really didn't want anything to do with that child.

That's sad.

It is really sad.

It's really sad.

It doesn't give you a right to traumatize people later in life, but it's very sad.

You feel sad for the child.

Yeah.

When he did see her, Frederick remembered his mother being very dramatic, constantly needing attention.

So relatable.

While most people would have been happy to see their children and, you know, make their children the center of attention, Ghilain seemed kind of frustrated when the focus wasn't on her and when, like, Frederick was getting attention.

So she would feign illness when he was around, and especially when they were alone together, and make him run and get help.

He said, to me, to see me frightened gave her pleasure.

That's fucked up.

So she's like, fucked.

Yeah, that's really fucked up.

If this is true, because again, I was just going to say, because remember, he's a gun man.

Right.

Caught between his grandfather's abusive, you know, abuse and his mother's disinterest and, you know, whatever was going on there, Frederick started creating fantasies in his head about who his real father might be.

And when he entered school, he started telling stories about his father.

He told his classmates that his dad was a British secret agent, among other lies.

But no matter how outrageous the stories about his home life were, his peers more often than not seemed to believe him.

A former teacher of his said he had this way of making you connect with him.

And they described Frederick as a, quote, precocious and captivating child who had an extraordinary imagination and visual sense, drawing wild, beautiful comic strips.

So he liked, there was a lot going on in his mind for sure.

At the same time that his creative side was emerging at school, like cool, cool, cool, teachers started noticing other, more troubling aspects of his personality.

Not cool, not cool, not cool.

He was rebellious, he acted out a lot, and he showed what teachers described as signs of mental distress.

So something was going on.

At one point, he told his grandparents that he had, this is awful, had been molested by a neighbor.

Oh, God.

But it doesn't seem like they did anything to report that or have that investigated.

So after that, he became even more rebellious and even more defiant.

When he was 12, his grandparents weren't able to control him anymore, and he was usually in trouble for acting out at school or stealing from neighbors.

So his behavior got him sent to a facility for troubled children.

And that's a fact.

Yeah.

During his time in the children's home, he seemed to get even more creative with the stories that he was telling.

He got more dramatic, more detailed.

In 1990, when he turned 16, he was required to move to a different children's home for older kids.

But after just a few days there, he ran away and hitchhiked to Paris, where he invented his first fake identity.

He said he was a lost British teenager named Jimmy Sale.

Later, he said, I dreamed they would send me to England where I always imagined life was more beautiful.

But the problem was he spoke almost no English, so the authorities in Paris didn't believe his story.

And eventually he confessed, gave them his real name, and they promptly returned him back to the home.

Oh, geez.

Yeah.

So lots of failures here.

Yeah.

So his performance of Jimmy Sale, Lost British Teen, might not have been very convincing to win him a free trip to England.

But it did seem to work for like a little bit.

Like he was almost convincing them.

In fact, if he had spoken English and been able to give some other details and, you know, explain away flaws in his story, he might have been able to pull it off.

He wasn't super far from pulling it off.

So it was then that he established a strategy of impersonation that he would now employ countless times over the next two decades.

By 1992, he had impersonated more than a dozen fictional children and just bounced around from one children's home to the other, just lying about his identity.

But now that he was 18, things were different.

They didn't send 18-year-olds to children's homes.

They sent them to prison or just like kicked them out to live on the streets.

And at the same time, he hadn't received any education or life lessons, anything that you need to live successfully as an adult.

So he decided he just wouldn't live as an adult.

Instead, he continued impersonating children all over France, fleeing when he was found out only to start his ruse, restart his ruse somewhere else with a new fake identity.

By that time, he had accumulated a pretty significant record with the Interpol for lying to authorities, falsifying his identity, falsifying documents.

It was true that he had broken the law by creating so many fictional identities, but it also seemed to be one of the few things that he was actually really good at.

Like he got caught, obviously, because you can only put up things like that for so long, but he was the way.

He got away with it for a while.

And the way he would manipulate people, like they did believe him.

Yeah.

He had this.

this ability to make people believe him.

Yeah.

Which is really fucking scary.

Which also makes you question a lot of his background.

Yeah.

That you can't verify at least.

That you you can't.

Yeah.

Well,

he kind of said having spent so many years in institutional care, he had a keen understanding of how to elicit sympathy from adults and how to exploit their guilt.

Absolutely.

He knew which buttons to push in order to get what he wanted while also making them overlook obvious inconsistencies in his story.

In the time that had passed since his teen years, his fantasies and his stories had gone from, you know, creative play to now criminality.

Yeah.

But the motive always seemed to be the same.

Despite having become an, you know, a straight up con artist and an impersonator, his identities weren't about money or anything like that or like stealing from people.

He just said, for as long as I can remember, I wanted to be somebody else, someone who was acceptable,

which is really fucking sad.

I know.

That's the thing.

If it's like, that's really the case, then that's devastating.

He never got charged with like any theft or anything like that.

Like he was always just charged for being a con artist and like falsifying documents to be a child.

Well, and it's like you wanted to, like he, he's wanting all these things that he didn't get and these people treated him so badly, but then he's going and like destroying people's lives.

It's fucked up.

And it's like, that's not going to help.

It's not going to help.

I think he didn't learn like compassion and compassion, empathy, like relating two things to one another, humanity.

And it's like, I think if he had seen a psychologist while he lived in those children's home, he might have turned out to be a very different person.

Potentially.

But like you were just saying, because he had the childhood he did being passed around people who just truly couldn't give a shit, he never felt wanted or loved anywhere.

But when he created stories about being a lost child or sometimes a mute, traumatized teenager, he found the kind of sympathy and care that he always wanted.

Even being placed in a children's home, he said he felt more comfortable than he ever had been with his mother or his grandparents.

Wow.

That's really sad.

He said, nobody ever gave a damn about me.

So to be put in a place where somebody really cared about me, I was reborn.

Wow.

Which is sad.

That's real, that's horrifying.

Yeah.

But unfortunately, no matter how good he was, like we know, the characters and identities he made for himself over the years only lasted so long before he was found out and had to move on.

In October of 1997, his latest scheme had earned him a stay at a child welfare home in Spain, where a judge gave him 24 hours to prove that he was a teenager or face criminal penalties.

He was going to go to prison.

So panicked that now he had overplayed his hand and could wind up in jail, he told the manager of the home that he was an an American teenager who'd been kidnapped and brought to Spain and all he wanted was to go back home.

He played the trauma card and convinced the manager to let him be the one to contact his family in private.

And he even got them to agree to letting him do it in the manager's office like alone.

Which is wild.

How does certain people just have this ability?

Because here's the thing, like it is insane, but I know people who I think could pull this off.

100%.

That's the thing.

There are certain people who just have this ability.

Yeah.

Con artists are scary, like, fucking

people.

Because you hear, like, there have been people in my life, and I'm like, how the fuck did you get away with doing that?

I'm like, how do you not care about hurting somebody like that?

How did people just let you do it?

And how do people let you do it?

You do.

It's crazy.

So this happened the night before he was to be fingerprinted by the Spanish authorities.

Fingerprinted.

The night before, he spent the entire night placing calls to various police stations and cities across the U.S.

Every time he would claim that he was a Spanish police officer who had found a missing American boy, but he said the boy refused to speak to them.

So he was reaching out on the boy's behalf to find out whether or not this boy matched any of their missing children.

Wow.

Which like, imagine getting that call.

You'd

be sus about that call.

Absolutely.

So he, yeah, he did.

Like he struck out repeatedly that night, but then he got a hit.

at the Texas Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

After providing

what was basically a description of himself, the operator told him the description sounded a lot like that of Nicholas Barclay, a teenager from San Antonio, Texas, who had gone missing three years earlier in 93.

So Bourdeen asked the operator to fax a photo of Nicholas, and he did, or they did.

And when the image of the missing boy came through, Frederick was like, this is a long shot.

Like, I don't really even look like this kid.

Yeah.

But I'm going to try because it's my only hope.

Wow.

He said he thought to himself in that moment, he's been missing three or four years.

I can guarantee one thing, there would be a change.

If there's a change, there will be doubt.

If there's doubt, then I have a chance.

That is chilling.

It is.

That is so chilling.

Because he did not give a shit about what that could do to this family.

He didn't even think about it.

He just said, I can't go to prison.

So this is what I have to do.

I can't go to prison.

So I'm just going to ruin this family's life.

Yeah.

Wow.

So it was then that 25-year-old con artist Frederick Bourdeen transformed himself into 16-year-old missing teenager, Nicholas Barclay.

While the authorities started contacting the embassy and the family, Frederick worked fast to make his appearance match that of Nicholas to the best of his ability.

He dyed his hair blonde.

He even had one of the other residents tattoo him with the initials that Nicholas had tattooed on his hand and his ankle.

Yet even those alterations, like with those alterations, tattoos.

He got, yeah, he dyed his hair.

He got tattoos for this.

But even with those alterations, he was sure that he would be found out immediately and sent to prison.

He just was like, it's worth a try.

Wow.

Later, he said, you can't prepare to play a role or be a person you don't know.

But when the first interview happened and the embassy officials seemed satisfied with the story, it did seem possible.

Still highly unlikely, but possible that he could pull it off.

Then in the days that followed, he thought, surely he'd be discovered as a fraud at any minute.

But every passing step, everyone seemed to believe his story with no hesitation.

The reality is that obviously, like a lot of people don't want to question a story like this.

No, of course not.

Especially one that he had told where, you know, he'd been traumatized and everything.

So

it worked.

So it just, all the cards fell into place.

Yeah.

And it was pretty much what he assumed.

People were easy to manipulate when you knew what buttons to push.

And he did know what buttons to push, the trauma buttons.

Yeah.

But his biggest challenge, he figured, came when Casey Gibson, Nicholas's real sister, arrived in Spain to pick him up.

Frederick was convinced that after days of pretending, he was going to be found out when Casey got there.

But he said Casey didn't appear the slightest bit suspicious, so it seemed like he might actually get to leave Spain.

In fact, when it came to establishing his identity for the passport, something he definitely thought was going to trip him up,

it was Casey who prepared him for the test unknowingly.

Oh, man.

The night before Frederick was to meet with the judge at the embassy, again, remember, they spent hours going through family photos and telling stories.

Right.

So when the judge asked him to identify those people in the family photos, he had been given all the information he needed not even 24 hours earlier.

Wow.

Yeah.

Just by having that.

It all just kind of fell into place for him.

He didn't even have to do the work.

Yep.

Wow.

For years, years at this point, he had passed himself off as dozens, dozens of fake teenagers with varying degrees of success.

But this was the first time he had taken the identity of an actual person.

And he was still convinced, though, that sooner or later someone was going to realize he wasn't Nicholas.

It's obviously one thing to create a fake persona and like come up with your own backstory, but it's quite another to adopt the identity of a person who had 13 years of experiences with a family.

Yeah.

And like an American family, you know, that's

pretty different.

Yeah.

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So, when they arrived in San Antonio, he said the Dollarhead family welcomed him with open arms.

Like Carrie, it seemed they didn't notice the glaring differences between Frederick and missing Nicholas.

Because they didn't want to.

No, of course they didn't.

Each new person he met seemed to adopt the position that since he had gone through this traumatic ordeal, he would almost certainly have changed in some way.

And he said, if anybody was suspicious, they didn't let on.

Wow.

Aside from one person who did not seem even remotely interested in entertaining the Ruse.

When they knew Nicholas was going to be coming home, the family organized a party and all the relatives and neighborhood friends came over to the house to welcome him when he got there.

The only person who wasn't there was Nicholas's half-brother, Jason, the one who had called, remember?

And Jason said, like, no, I'm not waking up, mommy.

Got to walk home.

That's tough.

Since Nicholas's disappearance, Jason blamed himself for everything.

And he was a heavy drug user for years.

Unfortunately,

it made him slip a lot further into his addiction.

A couple weeks after the party, though, Jason did finally come by the house to visit with the family.

And when he walked in, he gave quote-unquote Nicholas a hug, but Frederick said he remained very standoffish for the entire visit, and he seemed to be viewing his quote-unquote brother with a very wary look.

In fact, despite spending hours with the family that day, they only spoke one time.

As Jason was preparing to leave the house, he looked at Frederick suspiciously, said good luck, and left

good luck good luck

holy

chills you to your core can you frederick

was probably like oh yup oh yup the fact that this is not like it is a movie now but the fact that this whole story is not just a movie originally is like that this is real that it's real is insane wow good luck

holy shit so he'd been doing this for a lot of years obviously so he knew when his lies were starting.

Like he could tell when people were realizing, coming onto him, when things were going to fall apart.

Yeah.

His resemblance was slight at best.

And again, he spoke with a very strong French accent.

So the lie should have been obvious from the start.

Pretty much.

And he said, that being the case, within a few months of being in San Antonio, he started questioning, if the lie was so obvious, why would the family be so willing to accept him as their missing child?

Yeah.

So now he's starting to kind of be suspicious of this family.

Oh, Lord.

When Nicholas disappeared in 1994, the authorities assumed, like we said in the beginning, that maybe he had just run away from home.

Yeah.

And Nicholas actually had been picked up by the police shortly before he disappeared for stealing a pair of tennis shoes.

And it was possible that the theft and like some other things that were going on at the time was going to result in him being placed in a juvenile facility.

Oh, wow.

Like he was supposed to go to Juvie that summer.

Holy shit.

Add that to the fact that, unfortunately, Beverly Dollarhead also struggled with addiction.

And his brother Jason, like we know, was an addict at the time and also was frequently abusive to Nicholas.

Oh, like they did not get along well with each other.

I feel really bad for Nicholas.

I do too.

He had a very sad life.

But all that gathered together, it made sense to the San Antonio police that he would have run away at the time.

Yeah.

But years later, as more and more people started digging around in the family's history, some people started to wonder if the family knew more than they were saying.

Oh, wow.

And that's maybe why they were so willing to just go along with the ruse.

Yes, exactly.

It was clear, obviously, that Jason immediately saw through Frederick, but he seemed perfectly willing to let everybody else go on pretending, which Frederick said struck him as very strange.

Well, that was when you said he said good luck and left, I'm like, all right, if you can tell that this is not your brother, you're not worried for your family.

Why are you just letting this go?

Right.

And that's exactly like

that's exactly how Frederick felt.

Yeah, which it's wild to be on Frederick's level right now.

I know, I hate it.

Thought process but it just makes sense.

Yeah, it is a, it's a question that you have to ask.

Right.

You can't just pretend that that's not weird.

No, it is fucking weird.

Yeah.

Later, Frederick said it was clear that Jason knew what had happened to Nicholas, which is chilling.

And that's, you know, according to Frederick, I'm not saying that he did.

Yeah.

At the same time, P.I.

Charlie Parker, though, also began to suspect that the family might have been involved in Nicholas's disappearance.

Charlie Paca.

Oh, shit.

In his research, he learned that a few months after Nicholas's disappearance, and this is fact, it's not like alleged or anything, Jason called the police to report that he had seen his brother trying to break into the house one night.

But when he called out, Nicholas ran away again and was never seen ever again.

Huh.

Parker knew that while, sure, this could have been true, it also very well could have been Jason attempting to make the authorities think that Nicholas was still alive, which was a kind of strange thing to do, unless maybe he knew what had happened to Nicholas.

maybe knew who was involved or was trying to keep the keep it going.

Yeah.

Getting back to Frederick though, once the positive ID had been made, he was arrested for lying to the FBI.

It's kind of a big.

Yeah, they will definitely always arrest you for that.

Yeah.

And he was also arrested for entering the U.S.

on a false passport, among various other things.

Upon being arrested, though, he told the local FBI and

the local police and the FBI that he was confident that Nicholas's family had killed him and had welcomed him into the family as a way of further covering up their crime.

Oh, that's awful.

Which is so fucked.

The accusation, along with other facts of the arrest, were enough to make the family give up their insistence that this was Nicholas.

And this whole thing finally came to an end.

Ah.

Years later, Beverly herself admitted that after a few weeks of having Frederick in their home, she did start to doubt whether or not he was Nicholas, but she kept that suspicion to herself.

She said one of the things that tipped her off was, quote, Nicholas was always was a warm child, always hugging her and kissing her.

But she said this person in her house was cold and extremely guarded.

She had noticed it the first time that they hugged at the airport and she never really, like he never really seemed to get comfortable around her and vice versa.

But she said at the same time, she just wanted to believe so badly that it was her son that she went along with it.

Well, and also it's like if he's just been in part of a human trafficking ring, he might not

want to touch you.

Yeah.

Like he might not want to be be touched at all.

Right.

So it's like, that would not shock me.

No.

Like I would expect that, to be honest, I'd be like, you probably don't want anyone touching you, regardless of who they are or what their intention is.

Right.

So that wouldn't like shock me.

Wouldn't shock me either.

And that wouldn't be like a weird thing to point out that like, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, I feel like that would just be like parfa the course with that kind of thing.

You would think so.

I think we also right now have a lot more information about like what happens to people and like what that all entails.

Who knows what she knew knew about that in that immediate moment, you know?

But still, it's weird.

I agree with you.

So while Frederick sat in a cell, Nancy Fisher started now looking into the claim that the family was responsible for Nicholas's disappearance.

Unfortunately, and, you know, not surprisingly, the family was not cooperative with the investigation.

I'd be pretty pissed if this happened to me.

But Beverly refused to help.

She said, if Jason did something to Nicholas, I didn't know about it.

And I can't imagine Jason ever doing that.

It's just not in his makeup.

Which, like he was abusive to Nicholas.

So he's, you know.

Like, I'm not, I'm not, again, I'm not like, I don't know what happened here.

Nobody's not going to say anything happened.

I, to me, that's just a strange way of wording that.

Yeah.

If I have children, I'm not saying like, if one of them killed the other one, then I don't know about it.

Yeah.

Like that's, that's not going to be in my vocabulary.

Like that's not going to be even in the orbit of possibilities.

It's going to be, of course, that didn't happen.

There's no fucking way that would happen.

Exactly.

And again, I'm not saying that means that something happened.

It's just a weird way to word that.

Strange way to word that.

Completely agree.

Like, I just, I wouldn't have worded it like that.

I will say, you know, hot dog in a trench coat, take it for what it is.

She took two polygraph exams and passed them.

Okay.

But then they had her do a third and she failed every single question on the third one.

So that shows you for sure.

They're shit.

How do you pass two with flying colors and then the third one?

They have one with flying colors.

Every question.

Yeah.

And also, like, if you already passed two, why are they making you take a third?

Exactly.

Because they know it's bullshit.

Yeah.

I'm like, this is a waste of time.

But Nancy Fisher said of the third exam, she practically blew the instruments off the table.

Damn.

I was like, yikes.

Jason himself was even more uncooperative.

When Nancy Fisher sat down to interview him a few weeks later, she said he was hostile.

He refused to help in any way.

Shortly after that interview, He checked himself in a rehab for drugs, but he left halfway through before finishing the program and he died from an overdose a short time later, which is very sad.

The investigation into the family pretty much stalled because they couldn't find any.

The investigators couldn't find anything concrete linking the family to his disappearance, but you know, there were suspicions still.

Nancy Fisher said, I do feel like the family knows the whereabouts of Nicholas Barclay.

I think Beverly and Jason knew at one time what happened to Nicholas Barclay.

And that's just the FBI speaking.

I'm not saying I know what happened.

That's just the FBI saying it.

Other investigators shared the belief.

They cited the history of violence in the home, the evidence of the abuse documented before Nicholas went missing.

But unfortunately, to this day, he remains a missing person.

That's really sad.

Really sad.

After a few weeks of arguing back and forth with the prosecutor, Frederick Borden accepted a plea bargain, and in September of 1998, he pleaded guilty to perjury and obtaining and possessing false documents.

When asked why he had perpetrated this crime against a grieving family, he told the judge he was merely seeking love, which outraged the family.

Yeah.

And would outrage me.

Yeah.

That's great.

Go find love somewhere else.

Yeah, go figure it out with my grieving family.

That's fucked up.

Go fuck yourself.

The judge actually sentenced him in this case to six years in jail, which is more than three times the recommended sentence for that charge, which is pretty crazy.

Yeah, it is.

When you think about like all that goes into the scheme that's playing.

It's pretty diabolical what he did yeah like but i remember he took a plea so there were some charges that were dropped yeah of course

the judge did everything he could after frederick completed his sentence he was obviously deported back to france where he got right back to his old ways impersonating fake teenagers fake

did nothing no literally did nothing he was continuing to impersonate people and he actually spent time in prison like multiple times Eventually, he got out and met and married a woman named Isabel, who he met when he, when she reached out after seeing him on TV, discussing his history and what she described as his quest for love.

Ladies, we have to do better.

It's true.

Okay.

We have to do better.

We really,

really have to do better.

Yeah, we do.

Okay.

They are still married to this day and they did have five children together.

Wow.

According to Frederick's mother, when the family got the invite to the wedding, they didn't go because she said no one believed him.

I wonder why.

Like, that's bad.

If you're sending out a wedding invite and everybody says, nobody believes that you're even getting married, like, you've been lying for a long time.

You're a pathological liar.

It's sad.

It's sad.

As for his new role of husband and father, those who know him best do not believe that Frederick has changed at all.

According to his mother, he is a quote liar and will never change.

His uncle, Jean-Luc Drauart, said, he agreed, saying, you can't just reinvent yourself as a father.

You're not a dad for six days or six months.

It's not a character.

It's a reality.

Yeah.

and that's that and that's it that's the that on that holy

what a wild

thing the real played out here the real like loser in all of this like the person who lost is nicholas yeah he's lost still and he's almost lost in the story he is you know what i mean like it's like he absolutely no matter what the story became something so different and it's like when you really boil it down you're like what happened to that 13-year-old boy that day?

And it doesn't, there wasn't even really, it didn't seem like there was like a lot of investigation that happened.

That's the thing.

I'm like, why are we not figuring out what happened to him?

And I think there wasn't a lot of investigation because they were like, oh, he ran away.

He had ran away before.

So.

And it's like, yeah, okay, that doesn't mean that they.

And it's like, yeah, he ran away and he obviously came back.

Yeah.

You're telling me that kid just ran away and never came back?

Never popped up anywhere?

Yeah.

Ever?

Yeah.

Like Nicholas barclay just does not exist anymore i don't know what happened to him obviously i don't think he ran away i don't know i think somebody did something bad to him whether it was somebody who did it like while he was walking home yeah it could easily be a stranger you know the fbi could be right to suspect the family who knows like i don't think that's the fbi suspecting yeah that something was closer to home here that's on the fbi that's that's on the fbi i'm not uh i'm definitely not the federal bureau of investigations you know i i too am not the Federal Bureau of Investigations.

Would you tell me if you were?

I would.

The day I become the Federal Bureau of Investigations, I will absolutely update you.

I'll get it.

Yeah, a lot of text really quick.

Thank you so much.

Right when it happens.

That's super cool.

I'll throw it on my Instagram.

Perfect.

I won't see it.

Yeah, you won't see it.

Yeah.

But everybody listening will.

Yeah,

this is a strange story.

Yeah.

An upsetting story.

And

no one wins

in this story, which is like very sad.

Something, I forget what you said earlier, but like, like you, or you were saying he just gets lost in this story.

The other thing is he maybe wouldn't have gotten so lost in this story if Frederick hadn't done what he did.

He absolutely wouldn't have.

Cold cases get investigated all the time.

Yeah.

Three years into that, they might have found something if they continued looking.

But they thought he had came, that they thought he had come home.

And then when they realized it wasn't him, they had a whole other situation to deal with.

But they were having to deal with, okay, is this him or not?

right and it's like and that's precious time they could have spent looking into this case and he's just gone nicholas is just gone now and then by that point the family's angry and upset and then some of them i think some of them are pushing back on on like investigations and it's like you've really lost the sauce here and it's like again there's a 13 year old boy who went missing yeah just is gone gone in this whole thing and it's just the friend show hopefully someday they can you know like reopen up an investigation and figure out what happened.

Like, we always know what happened to him.

Cold cases never cold.

And like, no, they're not.

A 13-year-old should never go missing and not be found.

That's the thing.

That's fucked up.

Come on.

It's like, somebody knows something.

And it's just sad that I think in his 13 years of life, he like,

he didn't get to be happy often.

It sounds like he didn't get a lot of a lot to be, to be a kid.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

Sad case.

It is a sad case.

And, you know, Frederick's childhood is fucking sad, too.

Maybe.

Maybe.

Well,

he was in those homes, so that's true.

You know, like, that's facts.

Yeah.

So that's sad that he had to be put into homes.

For sure.

It's just a sad case all around.

Yeah, that's a bummer.

Don't impersonate people, okay?

Don't do that.

Like, unless it's for like, like, impersonating, like, Hermit the Frog's voice.

Yeah.

Do voice impersonations.

Those are fun.

Yeah, those are fun.

Yeah, not like, not like other.

Not missing children.

No, I don't have to tell you that.

Yeah.

That should be.

I have to tell you.

Go turn this off and seek help.

Yeah, that should really go without saying.

All right.

Well, we hope you keep listening.

And we hope you keep it.

Weird.

Weird!

But not so weird that you don't take our advice and not impersonate missing children.

Dicks.

Yeah, just like be cool.

Don't be all uncool.

Don't be all uncool.

Countess Lil In.

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