Episode 654: Diving into SKELETA with Tobias Forge of GHOST

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exclusions apply. Hey, weirdos,

I'm Ash. I'm Elena.
And

I'm Tobias. And this is a

very special episode of orbit that we have been lightly teasing for a few weeks i'm sure everybody's like what the fuck is going on lightly uh today we have prolific songwriter and storyteller with 10 billion streams, which is astronomical, five Grammy nominations, American Music Awards, iHeartRadio Music Awards, and a vast congregation of very devout fans. We have Tobias Forge from Ghost.
Welcome to Morbid. Thank you so much.
You're making me blush here. That's the plan right out the gate.
Thank you so much for talking to us. This is awesome.
You've had you just came off of really in the last few months, an epic tour, I would say is the least way we can describe it. It was basically two years.
Yeah, I guess I guess it's stretched over two years. I don't remember exactly, but but something like that.
Yeah, it's insane. You also just put out the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America.
No big deal. Casual.
Yeah, very casual. You've gone on kind of like a media sabbatical in between, and you've written an entire album.
And you also collaborated with Dark Horse Comics to expand the whole ghost lore with a four-issue comic book arc, which is really cool.

Are you a vampire is our first question, or do you sleep? Considering the fatigue, I feel I'm apparently not. No, no, I'm – let's put it this way.
I mean, in last year when I was working on the record simultaneous with the film, there were definitely moments where I felt like clear signs that big endeavors like that are better handled singularly. I don't remember whatever you call it.
You do one thing at a time. It's very hard to keep focus.
Somehow I managed to do that, but it was definitely know, the good thing about the film was that a large part of it was based on footage that we'd already, you know, secured that that we'd already shot in L.A. So that was, you know, a good lion's share of the content, if you will.
You know, sometimes with making records or making making films, you just have to stay on script. You just do what we decided.
My problem is that I don't really work like that. I'm sort of off the cuff, improvising stuff.
So any project will demand a lot of my mental presence and acuity, which is fun when you've done it, but it can be really tiresome. And I've definitely sort of, not to be ageist here, but I'm sort of approaching that age when I start feeling a little bit of results when things get a little bit too much.
That makes sense. Yeah.
But obviously it wasn't too much because I'm here now yeah you're doing okay i feel like it's working out yeah you know i feel that though i literally if i do two book signings in like a week i'm like toast for three weeks so i have no idea how you did two full years of a tour and did all the things you did afterwards i would be gone yeah i don't know what that. I mean, but it's also the good thing.
This is the weird thing about my job compared to, you know, friends that I have that make films or friends that I have that are just writing songs all the time that might not have much of an artistic career, but more just like writing and is that they just go from one creative to another. And even though I'm constantly creating to a certain degree, I also flip-flop between a creative period to a less creative period that is the tour, where you're creative in the beginning, but it is actually more of a, dare I say, more of like

a normal job in the sense that you show up in time and you do your job and then you're done.

Yeah, right. The creative work is done in a sense.

The creative job is like, it never ends.

I have to make the thing.

It's always, what?

It's like the creative part is like, have to make this whole thing and then that's

just like all right let's go through the but we got to do it now yeah that makes sense yeah well before we get to we're gonna go fully into what is next for ghosts what has happened i had one quick little side quest i needed to take you on before we get into it i don't know if you have heard but they think that they have named jack the ripper and i need to know if you think that they named jack the ripper tell me his name so you have it they think it's aaron kosminski okay no they i don't know if you've ever because i know you're like you're into the case you've, obviously. Yes.
Have you heard of the Catherine Eddowes shawl that they claim was at the crime scene? Yes. I know that there is a DNA question mark on that.
Yeah. For some reason, it's been everywhere that they are 100% sure that this shawl has led to the identity and they think it's Aaron Kosminski.
And the reason I bring this up is because a lot of our listeners, we did like a four episode, you know, deep dive into Jack the Ripper. And I think I did, it was like my, I couldn't stop researching it.
So of course I've been asked a million times what I think of this whole thing, if they've really named him. And it's infuriating because not people asking me but the fact that they're saying that this is 100 jack the ripper but i needed to know if you had heard about it and if you were like oh yeah it's aaron kuzminski or if you were like no all right so i'm gonna let tobias finish in a second i promise but before i do, I just need to let you guys know that we had very limited time with Tobias this time around.
So I really wanted to make sure that you guys heard my feelings on Jack the Ripper. And I didn't want to just like vomit them all over Tobias and use up all her time.
So here's the thing. I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper.
Not one part of me thinks it, in fact. There's many reasons for that.
The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me, and it's the same person bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info. That shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming was found at Catherine Eddow's crime scene.

One, they have no way of knowing that.

The only way of knowing that would be if it was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found on and around her at the crime scene that is well documented.

And it is nowhere.

There is nowhere that says there is like an eight foot long, really expensive shawl that might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere.
So if we don't have that, then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your answer. We don't.
So there's a big giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. I don't think it was found at the crime scene.
I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have held on to that kind of shawl.
I mean, there's all kinds of stories of her selling, you know, shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on her. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole thing is that Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken this shawl from the crime scene, a supposed blood-soaked shawl he took from the crime scene.
One, that would have been an immense risk to do that. And two, I think we all need to remember what I said a

thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series. We can't really comprehend how dark these crime scenes were.
There was no light. We're going by candlelight.
You're telling me that this man plucked a blood-soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for his wife? I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact

that Amos Simpson was a metro cop. He was a metropolitan police officer.
Miter Square, where Catherine Eddowes was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being there.
And even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause.
the DNA. The DNA, we don't even know what it is.
It might be blood. It might be semen.
They have no definitive answer for that. So that 100% match, I don't believe.
They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is no evidence of him leaving semen at scenes.
Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened before.
I am fully willing to admit that, and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes.
It was really violence and mutilation. It doesn't really fit with the pattern.
And once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here.
The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's what they're not telling you in any of these things.
This is not straight up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA.
It can eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect. Absolute.
Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can also be the person. This can be thousands of people.
Thousands of people in London can match this DNA. So that's not good enough for me.
That's not identifying. That is, you can eliminate.
And also, just to put a pin on this, the researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. He doesn't have a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really.
I will, of course, give benefit of the doubt if he can provide more evidence.

But he also claimed once, and so did his team, that they found a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Henley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett.

And his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors.

And it was really fucked up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they hadn't. So that upsets me.
That makes me question it. Of course, one massive monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life.
So if he can provide more evidence that says this is 100% DNA match, which I don't believe he can, then I'm willing to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kosminski is not Jack the Ripper.
Mic drop! I am very interested in the subject, and I definitely don't think it's Aaron Kosminski. No.
Okay, I'm glad you agree, because it's been driving me. Yeah, Alina's been going down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.
Every once in a while, I'll just yell out another thing that doesn't make sense about this, but everybody's running with it. But that is my official statement right here.
And Tobias Forge agrees. It is not Aaron Kuzminski, everybody.
Well, yeah, I think I spoke about this last time as well, is that the problem with most of the names that's been thrown around is that what they all have in common is that they somehow have some exotic or, you know, weird treat that makes them eccentric or typically weird.

It's interesting how in this case, especially now when we know so much more about serial killers, I don't blame people back then to be sort of dumb folded and sort of screwing up everything when it came to the investigation. but it's interesting how we now have a tendency to believe that this case is so different from every other serial killer in the history of serial killers.
We know now that serial killers are not necessarily an eccentric weirdo. They like shit openly and have and have circus and know that they are more likely to be like perfectly functional family men.
Yeah, they blend in. There's this very interesting reoccurring.

It's sort of part of the mainframe of the story that if you believe in the limitation of the canonical five, that after Mary Kelly, no one can do that number on another person physically, could subject someone to that ultraviolence without losing their minds yeah that's like a very excited that yeah like since when that and way worse and then make it and speak coherently and uh yep and go have dinner with their family pick their kids up from daycare it's really fascinating

as an entrepreneur And go have dinner with their family. Pick their kids up from daycare.
It's really fascinating as a human social experiment talking and listening to theories about this. Yeah.
Because it's mired in such a mist that for some reason makes people sort of completely unrealistic. But, you know, I'm also just an amateur.
I don't know who did it. I can't present you with facts that will...
And that's the difference, is you're saying, I don't know who did it. I don't know who did it.
Yeah. And same, I don't either.
I don't think any of us do.

No.

This drives me.

It's been very widely reported as like 100% we figured out who did it.

Yeah.

Like fully fact.

Like what?

This is from the 1800s. Well, let's put it this way then.

It will serve me well if people think it's Aaron Kosminski for some time.

Yeah.

So continue thinking that.

Okay.

It's officially him.

Yeah. Okay.
100%. Tobias is going to come mic drop later.
There you go. There's so many little things about it, but I won't get into it because I could literally talk about this for like six hours and you don't have that.
So let's take it back. We're going to talk about the Imperator, which again, you toured for almost two years.
It was seven legs. We were at a few of them.
It was an amazing tour. Congrats on that success, by the way.
And again, the stamina that it took to do that. Thank you so much.
You're welcome. And it had, I feel like towards the end of that tour, everyone became kind of like in a flutter of like, what's going to happen and like, what's, what's next.
And it was like like a very it had like its own like mythos you could hear like people talking about it everywhere you went about it so but luckily we didn't have to wait too long because you chronicled like you said the final two performances of the tour in the film right here right now which again I just need to state it's the highest grossing hard rock cinema event in North America, which is a crazy title to hold. But you ended that on the cliffhanger of all cliffhangers, like right before revealing Papa Five.
One thing I have to ask you is I was in one of those audiences watching that film. And the first thing I heard very clearly when the credits rolled was someone behind me yell very lovingly,

fuck you, Tobias Forge, like at the top of their lungs. So mad because they were like, what the fuck? Did you feel audiences cursing you at the end of that? Like, did you know that people were going to be like, no, I went to the premiere here in London.
I'm currently in London. So I was here for the premiere.

So that was the first time I

saw here in london i'm currently in london so i was here for the premiere so that was the first time uh i saw it with essentially a bunch of strangers and there was this murmur oh no one like there was no one cursed you like not no cursing but yeah there was definitely signaled. A grumble that went through the ground.
It's your gotcha moment. It is.
It was such a good gotcha moment. It's your gotcha moment.
Yeah. Yeah.
It was like right up to it. And you're just like, oh.
Yeah. Then it just closed the door.
So in that film, there's like a lot of allusions to twins and a lot of implications that there's twins involved in some other capacity than what we've seen. Is there can you tell us anything about that or should we just like shut up and wait? No, it's easy.
It's more fun if you as a fan, you get to follow the story the way that I've rolled it out with the comic and onward. It's a boring way to explain it, but it's just better explained that way.
I'm fascinated, not in like a Mengele sort of way about twins, but I think that there is this, I mean, obviously I do happen to have two children who are twins. Me too.
But I think that there is this fasc I mean, obviously, I do happen to have two children who are twins.

Me too.

But I think that there is this fascination with, especially when it comes to grown up people who've been separated at birth for this, that or the other reason. Sometimes by accident, sometimes by choice, sometimes by, you know, force.
more than often

it's been a result

of girls who basically

couldn't take care of their children

and you know, force. More than often, it's been a result of, you know, girls who basically couldn't

take care of their children and wasn't at that point maybe equipped or had the ability to take care of children. So they had no choice but to leave them up for adoption.
And, you know, there are cases where where uh they they have felt forced to give up one. And I've always been fascinated with, I don't know, the concept of family ties and bloodlines and all that.
And I think that that comes not necessarily from the fact that I have twins myself, but it comes also from the fact I have several adopted adopted siblings and you know just a few years ago I did what most people or a lot of people do nowadays you do the ancestry and you know you you check your DNA and and and then you get like a whole slew of people that you're related all over the world the place and you know dawned on me pretty quickly that if some of my siblings would do that, their thing is completely different. They belong to some other family with their own background and their own everything.
And I really wish that they did in a way, but as far as I know, they haven't because it's it's it's such a trauma for them. I yeah.
Oh, yeah, I can imagine. So when I say the word fascinating, it's not always like from a joyful.
It's it's it's from a it's it's really affecting stuff. And it really can do a number on on someone when you learn something about your life, and especially if you feel that something that you believe was true was all of a sudden not true.
In my family case, they are very well aware that they are adopted. So that is not a thing.
But I'm just saying that it never does it become more clear when one does the test and, you know, you can trace back and the other one to you is like, oh, that's cool. Look at that.
That's a surprise. And that's like a relatively new thing too.
So I feel like that's like a whole new generation of people experiencing that like very specific and very unique kind of trauma sometimes. because we didn't always have these tests that we could just like send away for and get the results on your phone.
No. So it's very interesting.
It's an interesting concept. And I think for the most part, it's a really good thing.
I do believe that. Simply put, knowing your history.
And I found it to be very humbling to be able to look at my family tree and seeing all these people. Obviously, most of them I couldn't see photos of or I could only see names.
But, you know, watching generation of generation of people struggling and more than often, especially when you go back back 100 years and it was it's common that you see um you know mom and dad that gets like 12 kids yeah out of six of them die it's wild like a year two years three years and that was just normal back then it was a completely normal thing for us it's like that's a cataclysmic event oh yeah you can't even i'm not saying that they weren't suffering but i'm just saying that it was like a completely different time and um they spent very probably spent very little time uh wallowing in affairs and worldwide things that didn't bother that that wasn't directly affecting them and they just kept head straight and they worked and and they made sure that the kids that survived survived and and um you know I I have a tremendous amount of respect what's the word humility yeah like all that work that was put in in order for me to sit here and talk shit. That's a good way to look at it, actually.
Yeah. That's what they did it for, so we could sit here and talk shit.
Yeah, you know. Well, getting away from the last tour and heading into the future a little bit, this album, I was lucky enough to listen to it.
This new album is, it's like a masterpiece. I'm obsessed with it.
I love it. It might be, I think it's my favorite so far.
It's really, really good. I can't get over it.
I wanted to like scream it from the rooftops. I really can't.
And I know you're probably like, oh. That's what you tell everyone.
It's not, I promise. She doesn't.
I really don't. I loved this one.
I loved it immediately from the first note. And again, like this album feels, it's just got like a different feel to it and it feels more personal and a little more like introspective.
Like it just has a different vibe to it, a very good different vibe. Can you tell us a little bit about why, if I'm correct, why you might have went in that direction with this one? Yeah, I simply put the previous record especially was such a channeling of me deciphering external influence.
and I felt that even though I'm super proud of

Impera, I thought that

that was the record that I wanted to do at the time nothing wrong with that but i felt not at all inspired to go back and make uh a uh you know a sequel to that like an impera 2 even though i mean obviously there's plenty of fodder if you want to have, like, continued on that path. But I just felt that that's not inspiring.
That's not, it doesn't, that is simply not what I need. And therefore, hence, I don't think that that's what my, like, people are interested in what I think, feel or need either.
I'd rather make a more introspective record that deals with evergreen feelings and basic human sentiments and still hope. It definitely comes across in this one.
Like each one, I feel like it's kind of like a little mini movie that you can see in your head. And it feels like there's sentiments in each one that you can relate to on some level in some part of your life.
You know what I mean? Like they all have that. That's why this one like struck me as so different but it was different in the best kind of way i'm glad you say that i um this you know at some point when you when you you you uh you sketch out this little idea that oh so this is a thematic concept and and these are a few songs that i've been fiddling with and it's's always this process when you're practically putting together a record.
And, you know, at the end of the day, I mean, regardless of what message that you want to stay on point with, you know, it still needs to be like a entertaining piece of work, piece of art that, you know, with rhymes and new words. And so there's so many hurdles to go from like a pure, pure intuitive idea to actually looking at like 42 minutes of qualitative entertainment.
Yeah, that must I can't imagine that. Yeah.
Having to boil it all down to that and making it like palatable. Yeah.
I mean, but that's, that's what I do. Yeah.
I love that, but it, but it's definitely like, it's always a challenge. Oh, I'm sure.
Fun challenge, but, but it's always, um, especially when you're trying to do thematic things. That's why I'm, that's why sometimes I'm also like using the theme as as like a it's that's a loose direction that i've that i've used as a more originally most for myself in order to sort of stay on on brand might be the one but stay on point stay on stay focused so i know where not to go stay the course yeah did you have a bit of a different process writing the songs this time around? No.
No, same process? Same process. All right.
I like that. It's simply because I don't really have one go-to process.
So I was using the same process, C's. I think that this was the first time, first record where I worked with collaborators that I've I worked only with collaborators that I worked with quite a lot before I didn't have any new any new blood.
So we were we were working with with with a certain amount of rapport and background which was very comforting because you trust the other people, you trust them, you know that we're working towards the same goal and everybody has the intent of making everything as good as possible. I know that no one, who the hell would go into a production with the opposite.
You never know. That'd be weird you just never know anymore definitely feel sometimes that someone is phoning it in and especially if it's like a big production with a lot of people and obviously someone is there someone is there because they're getting paid so and and they're they're functional too so it's that's not a problem but yeah nobody it was it was quite closely knit and we were we were not a like a big bunch of people working on this one um and you know as some of you fans might know that we i uh basically have a little bit of a divide between how i make the records and and then whom is performing on stage and uh you know uh across um you know my 15 years career as as this band I've I've I've experimented a little bit with that but I've learned the hard way that it's if if you're not going to use everyone it's better to use no one like if if if not everybody's being called in for their ability and and and and their their special gift um anybody who's excluded from that is gonna they're gonna take that the wrong way it's not gonna be great yeah so it's just better i've just found it more comforting and more more productive and nicer to everybody to just work with others and then once once we get the band together, then we haven't nagged each other down.
We haven't worn each other down throughout the process of making a record, which a lot of other bands do. Once they hit road, they have already been in the studio and killing each other for a year.
Oh yeah, I hear about that all the time. Some of the greatest bands like Fleetwood Mac wanted to kill each other half the time yeah making records especially if you are collaborating it is very um I don't have a better word it's an intimate process I'm sure you know it's it's a very you have to you have to be very open and and and daring well and it's kind of like you're letting your own like personal journal your own diary you're giving it to a bunch of people to kind of help make into something that everyone's going to listen to i can't imagine that no that but that it's pretty much what you do of course when you've done it a couple times you don't it's it's simply not a part of your it's kind of like getting naked with someone you're together with like it's that it's not a thing after a while that you're you know and and and once you you've started writing with someone and and if and it feels good it it it does come more natural yeah you don't have that initial obstacle of having to put the shades down.
Well, and we, the first single video that is coming out from this album is Satanized. And when this episode airs, it has come out already.
That video is amazing. Loved that video.
It is the first reveal of Papa Five, Papa Perpetua, and it's a phenomenal reveal at the end of the video. I think Ash actually filmed me watching it for the first time, and I was like speechless.
I couldn't even form words. I have a couple of questions about that video.
And again, if you can't answer, just say absolutely not uh is that you heavily heavily made up as the priest um yes i mean i knew it the point is not that it's me it's point that it's a priest yes i want people to focus on priest yeah yeah i mean of course i mean i understand that people will sort of notice it's it's it's a good it's hard good prosthetics but it's obviously not uh to the point where i'm completely beyond but the song itself had has a um so this is how meta and weird ghost is sometimes love Love that. The song is written in eye form, eye perspective.
But on the record, Papa the Fifth Perpetua is singing, pretending to be another character. Right? Oh, I think I'm right about my theory.
Alina has quite a theory. And I think you just confirmed it.
Because Papa the Fifth Perpetua is a singer in a band. So as any other band who has songs that are written in I form can be about someone else.
They're not always about their personal experience. The, the, them personally oh that's good to know so in the video a um that a problem sort of arose because of this because we needed my idea was for this love-stricken monk to go through the hurdles of confusing his infatuation with

being possessed. And of course, his surroundings within the monastery, of course, Dave, the symptoms that he's showing is clearly the sickness of being possessed by a demon.
And the cure for this is, you know, anorcism and and repentance and and all that so technically you know it was important that okay so i mean obviously i can't transform into papa that becomes really poor and bad yeah so we needed to have a another character coming in so we had this this uh he's a swedish actor i don't know if anybody was so good guys you you recognize him he was familiar but i couldn't i didn't know if it was just because he has a very kind face no his name is uh i'm i hope i say this right internationally like David Den. And he is.
He's been in all kinds of stuff. Like he was in a James Bond film.
Oh wow. He was in.
A lot of Swedish and Scandinavian films. I mean he stars.
He's half. I think he's half Danish or something something oh okay so so he's in a lot of danish

films oh that's cool maybe it wasn't just his kind face like a really like he's a very talented actor

he's very well known in sweden denmark scandinavia um hugely talented very very nice um lots of fun

to work with so he really graced that video with this personality that I think was needed,

which sort of put me in a little bit of being superfluous, which is fine.

I don't have to star or anything.

But somebody needed to be the priest.

And it's always interesting to be plain asshole that's it must be the most fun i feel like absolutely the villain is always the most fun if i if i looked more like a like a stereotypical sort of strong angry man like you know with all those features you know how some men are just like badass yes i can't really play that you know uh you know what you're looking at right now is me sort of having spent uh some time being sick i'm glad you're feeling better by the way so i'm sort of in in home mode uh in the sort of the hobo look it's chic um you know, when I'm clean shaven and all, I can't really scare people. And sometimes as an actor, to whatever extent, I am an actor at some point.
I would say so. You just have to live with the fact that you're, you know, what your look is, is sort of...
You got to work with it. That's what you can play to do to screw him up with a with some sort of feature that gave him a little bit more of a character i loved it i'm so glad you confirmed it for me because it was driving me insane i've been saying it in here i'm like am i just like looking for things that aren't there or like am i going crazy now but in the same in that same video uh because we've, you know, I had to analyze it a million times, Corinthians 6.19 flashes across the screen.
It's in the little notebook. It's definitely like right there.
And in case anybody didn't, you know, immediately look up that verse in the Bible, I did not know what that verse was at first because I'm not super up on my biblical verses. Now, before this interview, I think I'm like an expert on the book of Revelations, by the way.
I'm telling everybody stories. Alina's held her own Bible study now.
I have. So I know all about it.
But Corinthians is basically touching upon like sexual immorality. It's when Paul went to the Corinthians and told them, you know, stop being so loose with your business.
And the Corinthians were like, well, why does it matter? This body doesn't go with me when I leave. So like, it doesn't matter what I do with it.
And he's like, no, it's a temple for God. And you're sullying it with your reckless, you know, sexy time.
So that's the story there in a very loose form, obviously not the word of God. And this seems to be a theme, obviously, of the Satanized video for sure.

Like we see the nun showing some clogged ankle for a minute.

Loved her.

I thought her facial expressions are so good.

And it's part of the video.

It's part of everything for this.

And there's another song, I won't name it because it's obviously not not out yet that i listened to on the album that definitely had some like spiciness in it i would say so it had like a similar theme of this but i wanted to know if that kind of theme plays like a bigger role at all in the thematic arch of the album as a whole or if it's just kind of like just a part of something bigger you mean book of revelations or the corinthians corinthians i would say uh like that whole like sexual immorality thing this is i mean no this was specific to this song okay uh just because it in in in that specific verse um i can't paraphrase it in English exactly what it says

but it's somewhere along

the lines of keep your body clean

because at the end of the day you know it belongs to

God and

in the context of the song

and the meaning of the video

I think it's

fairly poignant and

on point

to this

misconception that anybody

who's love stricken

Thank you. Fairly poignant and on point to this misconception that anybody who's love-stricken is somehow opening themselves up to destroying their bond and their covenant with God.
A higher being. Which is completely unfathomable.
Truly. and what is, and again, you might not be able to answer this, but in the notebook, we were looking at what the things that were written in there because they were funny in the music video.
And there's something that's crossed out. Can you tell us what that said? Because I think next to it, it says like idiot.
I think the first thing that was crossed out was masturbate? Yeah, that was definitely one. And obviously he didn't want to suggest that.
And then it's, was it suicide? Oh, that's what it was. But he didn't want to like, no, that's not great.
He didn't want to suggest that. Maybe was starting going through the the bible verses there and and he landed on two corinthians uh and anybody who knows current

history knows that two corinthians does not exist it's second corinthians but um when you pose with bible and try to trick your your followers that you have any clue what you're talking about and you say that wrong, it becomes kind of humoristic. It does.
So that was a little bit of a – A little nod. An Easter egg there.
A little wink. I like that.
All right. I'm glad we know what that is now.
It was driving us nuts. We're like, what does that say? It has an S in the beginning.
So quick little like side question. Have you ever seen The Devils with Oliver Reed and Vanessa Redgrave? I don't know off the top of my head.
You should watch it. I believe that this is a quite old film, right? and it was like banned but i think like the w

like warner brothers wouldn't release it again so it's one of those things you have to go looking for yeah yeah yeah i am i don't remember i don't remember i i vaguely have it in the back of my head i think i know which film it is i sometimes i do have a problem uh remembering or um simply detecting which film

someone is referring to because

even though in sweden we don't dub films um we have other titles for the films oh i didn't think about which is uh too uh too too much ridicule and uh and uh the laughings of my band members band that i'm traveling with because they have picked up on this little anomaly in swedish uh cinema i kind of love that so so sometimes i get the question like what's this called in swedish so like simple simple old school things it's like Jaws is called Hayen and that means the shark and uh you know towering inferno is and that means the skyscraper is on fire I'm obsessed i love that one's awesome you know over the course of touring and and you sit in the bus and do exactly what we're talking about right now like we're just like have you seen this film i'm like maybe no then i see you know a picture of it oh yeah of course i've seen this but you know i remember this film and then to have to tell them the title and it's like whoa it's such a simplified stupid i love it dumb dumb uh you know the old one that's fairly known is that all mel brooks films in swedish is called springtime for huh Springtime fortime for hitler wow um and uh a lot of the um goldie hawn films was the girl who fell overboard the girl who did military service knew too much i love that words are added into the title too like overboard it's not just overboard it's like we have to explain it first yeah all the all the uh um you know national lapoons uh national vacation or christmas vacation all that yeah uh all the all the ones that all the clark were clark griswold films they're called um a pair for a dad a pair it's pad on till fasha so that means like a pear as in in the the fruit oh like i thought you meant a pear a pear for for a dad celebrating christmas a pear for a dad uh on a european vacation you know Why is there a pair? So when I say, if I ask anyone in Sweden, like, have you seen National Lampoon's European Vacation? They'd be like. They will most likely not know what I'm talking about.
They're like, is that the one with the pair? With the pair you were talking about? That's the one with the pair. Yeah.
That's amazing. I'm kind of obsessed with that.
You're going to have to let us know if the devil has a different the devils has a different name it's the one um written produced and directed by ken russell is it criterion other people who made it yes i don't know why it just popped in my head yeah it's one i'm gonna check it that's a red grape yeah and oliver reed so yeah yeah oh this rings a bell because as soon as i watched the satan video, for some reason, that movie just kind of like popped in my head. And I was like, huh, I gotta ask.
Oh, okay. Yeah.
So moving away from the Satanize video, we have a couple of like kind of random questions for you. But last time you were on, we had a lot of random questions for you.
and people really liked hearing what you had to say about very random things.

So I'm sure you know this, that you grew up in Sweden. Is there any folklore or tales that you heard growing up that you think maybe shaped how you approach music or just creating cool shit? I mean, obviously, my music for almost forever, I mean, as soon as I started writing songs, especially for bands and stuff, it was always driven by a certain level of supernatural presence, if you will, because I started writing songs for especially metal and death metal and stuff like that so of course there's this supernatural horror element and then that that just sort of continued even through my sort of inter wall bands where it was still sort of darkish and now obviously it's influenced by that that too, or at least wrapped in some sort of wrapping that's supposed to be a risk.
So of course, I think that Scandinavian folklore had, I don't know how it is nowadays because I'm obviously not a child now. And I do have children though.
So I'm not sure if if they I'm not sure that they have sort of dealt with with the same fairy tale you know murkiness that even when I was a kid and in Scandinavian folklore is a lot about trolls and various creatures that live in the forest yeah where i grew up in lynchaping we had i mean anybody traveling to lynchaping or anybody who's ever been there knows that there's a um there's a stream going through the the city and it's it's like a built stream and and it's it's in the form of sort of a a city park if you will it's not just sort of licking between the the houses it's it's like a it's like a long long park that goes through the town and because it's part of a system called yatta canal a channel it's it's adjoined to to yatta canal it has these sluices and and stuff So you can actually take the boat and travel. Oh, that's cool.
And where I grew up and where my kindergarten was, it's still there. It's still a functioning kindergarten, like a daycare place.
It was really nice because we had it. It was sitting right next to, near the the stream oh that's so there was like a huge part like a big park right next to where we were and and we had the sluice you know where where old wooden oh that's cool boats would come and they would you know fill the water up and and but there was also like a waterfall there is this is actually a pretty beautiful place if anybody travels to linchaping at some point go down to hawaii it's called hawaii because it's like a little um peninsula where that's cool where me and my friends and and everybody we knew would go with six packs and get we all have that one place not when you were in

kindergarten it was later i went out not when i was in kindergarten but but anyway and there's this character in swedish folklore called neken and he is like a naked man sitting that's scary in a waterfall

or where the water streams

downstream sitting that's scary and by the water uh in a waterfall or where the water streams down downstream and he would sit there and play fiddle naked oh and if you ever hear him you will be enchanted by his playing and you will and he will lure you and he will drown you oh that got dark so fast. At first I was like, all right, sounds cool.
Like this guy. Yeah.

And I was like,

oh shit.

I like the fiddle music when i was little and you know and on a and we were down there playing you couldn't help but to sort of think that if there was such a thing as neck and he would probably sit right over there sounds like it's a typical neck in place to sit yeah why not we know anything about neck in yeah he's gonna sit there he's gonna sit right over there. Sounds like it.
Because that is a typical Neckan place to sit. Yeah.

Why not? If we know anything about Neckan.

Yeah, he's going to sit there.

He's going to sit in that waterfall.

That's great.

So Tobias, we told you at the beginning of the episode

that we had a very special guest who wanted to come in

and just congratulate you and say hey.

So if you want, we can let them in now, if that's good.

No, of course.

Who is it, please?

I'm very nearly here. He's here.
Welcome to the show, Doug Bradley. Hi, Toby.
Hey, man. How are you? I'm very well.
How are you? Good. I'm doing fine.
Doing just fine. It's been a while.
COVID kept getting in the way, huh? Yeah. Have we not seen each other since then? I think at the Peterson, they wouldn't let us backstage.
And then I think the last one, you needed to kind of voice preservation, energy preservation. Yeah, I remember that now.
You didn't need annoying groupies. Exactly.
And I might have been also disturbed by... Do you still have that insect infestation in Pittsburgh? Oh, that was crazy.
Which one? We had the stink bugs. Then that was followed by the spotted lanternflies.
Oh, even worse. That was what I was referring to.
But I just wanted to conclusively, I would just want to say we are coming to Pittsburgh. You are.
Yeah, this summer. So I'm looking forward to see both of you then.
Yeah, we already have our tickets. We will be there.
Yay. We'll all be there.
We'll meet up some some bugless place. Congratulations on the movie.
Thank you. Thank you so much.

Which was terrific.

And so the tour upcoming,

you could lay claim to being the hardest working man in show business,

I think.

I think so.

I try to put my models, but it's.

I think it will be 10 years this year since we first saw you.

Is it? House of Blues in Dallas, I think 2015 was be 10 years this year since we first saw you. Is it?

House of Blues in Dallas, I think, 2015, was it?

Damn.

14.

I'm losing count. Okay.

11 years.

Look at that.

Yeah.

I bet they suck.

I bet they're going to go.

You just happened to step in on the one night when we didn't do that.

Elena, congratulations on the novel.

Oh, thank you so much.

Which I read and enjoy hugely.

Thank you.

With a plot twist for the ages, which I did not see coming.

Thank you so much.

I mean, it was literally a kind of, what?

That was the plan, so I'm glad it worked.

I haven't cleared the decks for the sequel.

It's coming.

The third one's coming, so get ready.

Is that what you're meant?

Do you stop at a trilogy or do you just?

I'll keep going, probably.

You'll get some more.

I didn't congratulate you on anything, Ash, but.

That's okay.

I just exist.

Congratulations for being wonderful.

Oh, thank you.

Back at you, Doug. Look at the love here.
This was was so amazing and it was so amazing to have Doug come in as a surprise guest we wanted to give you that at the end I know we love Doug thank you for coming Doug we love Tobias we love Doug it's just all love here and just to wrap it up the album comes out on April 25th it's incredible everybody go get it because you won't be disappointed. The single for Satanized and the Sister Imperator comic are available now when this episode comes out.
You can access all the above plus some really sick merch on ghost-official.com. And I encourage you to do it.
Tobias, you're amazing. We're huge fans.
We'll stick with you. can't wait to see you on tour we'll be at a

couple of the dates looking forward and thank you so much thank you so much for coming on we really

really appreciate it thank you and we hope you guys keep listening and we hope you keep it weird

bye Bye. I can't find my go away button.
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I'm Lindsey Graham from the podcast American History Tellers.

And if you're still reeling from Ash and Elena's episode on the Boston molasses disaster and you want to dive even deeper, you're in luck. My show doesn't usually venture too far into the spooky or creepy, but we've dedicated two full episodes to uncovering fascinating details about this bizarre molasses catastrophe.
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