Episode 630: Fan Favorite: The Unbelievable Survival Tale of Juliane Koepcke

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It's Krimis. It's the holidays.
It's whatever you celebrate. You festive fiends.
I hope you're having an amazing holiday break. Hopefully.
You sound like the Countess today. Do I? Yeah, I'm sick.
You sound like Ronnie and Ben's impersonation of Countess Luen. I'm sick right now, but in the future where you are, I won't be.
And I will be enjoying some time with my family. The fam-dam-ily.
For the holidays. Yeah.
And I'm excited about that, and I hope you guys are too. Yeah.
So we decided to revisit a tale that is horrifying but has an amazing ending. It's incredible, the ending.
Julianne Kapka is literally a miracle. She's astounding.
Like, talk about a miracle of Christmas, Julianne. A Christmas miracle.
A Christmas miracle. Yeah, she's crazy.
A harrowing tale. And it's definitely one worth listening to.
So we wanted to give you guys this for another little rewind to one of our favorite episodes, our favorite cases to cover. Yeah, just give you a little something for the holidays.
You know, we needed a little bit of time off to spend with the family,

but you can still enjoy an older episode.

Exactly.

And it's a story of like bravery and hope

and perseverance and being a badass.

Yeah, it's a perfect holiday tale.

Wait, let's cap off the year with that

and go into 2025,

like with the spirit of Julianne.

I can't wait for 2025.

Let's take 2025 like Julianne said, fuck you, jungle. I'm getting out of here.
Yeah. That's what we're going to do in 2025, everybody.
So please enjoy Julianne Kapka. She's fucking amazing and so are you.
Happy holidays. Merry holidays.
Love your faces off. Boop.
Beep.

Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena.

I'm Ash.

And this is I have had on my list forever, but was scared to do it because it's a plane crash survivor. Have you ever really talked that in depth about your fear of flying? I've probably mentioned it.
I don't know how far I've gone into it. So we're going to be covering the survival tale of Julianne Kopka.
This was back in 1971. We're going to go through what happened, her life, and her journey after she survived.
Julianne, I'm telling you guys, after you hear this, go read her book. Like, go learn more about her life.
Like, she is such an inspiring lady. Ooh.
So inspiring. Like, outrageously inspiring.

She fl- like go to learn more about her life like she is such an inspiring lady so inspiring like outrageously inspiring she flies all the time now after this and when you hear what happened you're gonna be like excuse me so this is actually i didn't know if this was going to help or hurt do you think it helped i think it helped okay because i'm like well fuck me if julianne can get on flights, what the hell am I complaining about? Right. Like, what the hell? You're like, I've never gone down in a fiery crash.
Oh, Lord, why would you say that out loud? Oh, Jesus Christ. Well, I didn't mean it like that.
I thought we were on a good track here. I never will.
I never will. I never will.
I'm walking on all the wood. But, yeah yeah.
So no, I'm sorry. So I have a debilitating fear of flying.
Yes. And when I say debilitating, I mean Ash witnessed it for the first time last year.
Yeah. And I literally walk into the plane in tears.
I've seen Elena cry maybe like a handful of times in my life. I think like when sad things in her family have happened or like Bubba, I would say like maybe three to five times.
And you walking onto a plane was one of them. And I've also never seen you look scared.
Yeah. Other than when you're getting on a plane.
It's honestly, I can say for sure, it's the only time I feel completely out of control of myself and my emotions. Well, you kind of, I mean, you are out of control.
I'm truly fearful. Like I have never felt fear like I felt walking onto a plane.
I think a fear of flying is one of the easiest fears to kind of comprehend, like from an outsider's perspective. Yeah.
Because it makes sense. Because you're just kind of like, how do we fly up there? I don't fucking know.
How does it happen? I don't like to think about it too much. But honestly, thinking about it actually helps more because it it makes sense because you're just kind of like how do we fly up there like how does it happen i don't like to think about it too much but honestly thinking about it actually helps more because it will help you understand that's at least it helped me yeah i don't know if it'll help everybody i'm not going to sit here and be like it'll help everyone across the board but i can tell you the people i've talked to that also have dealt with fears of flying said they found comfort in like there's a lot of books and And honestly, I'm going to link the books in the show notes to just in case some of you have a fear of flying.
It's a common fear. You know, and I'm telling you, I don't know if you have a fear of flying if listening to this episode is going to help or hurt you.
So I'm not going to sit here and claim it did. It helped me researching it.
But I don't know if it's going to freak someone out that has a fear of flying. So just know that going in.
But I will link the books because I got a few books that helped like understand the mechanics of flying. Okay.
And understand the physics and understand airflow and understand wind shear and understand what turbulence actually is. Jello.
It makes you understand the whole thing. So you're kind of up there and you're like, all right, so that's what that bump was.
Okay. So that bump isn't a big deal because that's what's happening.
Or like, you know, the earth is cooling at an irregular rate. And that's why I felt a little bump because it let like push some air up.
Like, and it's actually kind of interesting. Okay.
Yeah. I mean, well, and you love science.
Yeah. So it's very science.
It's like a nice way of just like making it tangible. I think.
Like I need something that I can hold on to.

Just statistics don't really help me.

I need like tangible things.

I understand that.

This makes sense.

But I will tell you that I'm literally like,

like I get all the physical symptoms of anxiety on a flight.

I burst into tears in the middle of a flight.

As soon as a bump hits, I will look over at John and he always says the look in my eyes is like nothing he's ever seen. Like it's always just pure fear.
Oh yeah. When we flew together, me and you were in the front and you were closer to the back and watching you walk to your seat.
I've never in my life seen you look as scared as in that moment. It's like walking to an execution to me.
It's like what I feel like I would think it looked like yeah like walking down the green mile i feel like that's how it feels to me but after like learning about all this i was like well julianne just gets on planes now that's crazy and she just gets on planes to do like really good shit for like the environment and for like animals and to like further research and shit and to like better herself and i'm like well if julianne can do that after what i'm about to tell you like i can stop are you having like um like a patrick swayze donny darko moment with the little kid and he's like i'm not afraid i'm not afraid anymore that's literally me right now let's hope it carries on into like going to disney with the kids and stuff and getting on a plane. But you know, this is an amazing tale.
So first I'm going to talk about, you know, Julianne, who she is, how she grew up, because it is a huge part of how she

survived. Okay.
So we're going to talk about Julianne Kopka. And like I said, I'm terrified

of flying. So this was definitely

immersive therapy for me. And I'm glad I did it finally.
But I know that things have changed in airline safety now and that this wasn't even in, you know, the United States. So it was like a totally different set of protocols and all that.
This was also in the 70s. Anything went.
We're going to find out that this airline was not great. This quote unquote airline.
Yeah, I honestly would say quote unquote airline. It's not around anymore.
It ended right after this actually. So don't worry about that.
But this is a terrifying tale that does, it does turn into like a tale of perseverance, of strength, of like inspiration. It's wild.
Julianne's a badass. She's a real testament to what the human body, the mind, and honestly, like the human spirit can withstand and endure.
So what happened was December 24th, 1971, 17-year-old Julianne Kopka and her mother Maria were set to take a flight to Paculpa from Lima, Peru. Paculpa was about 450 miles away from where they were, and the flight would have only been about an hour.
They had done it before, but the airline they were essentially forced to take this flight on had a long history of tragic and terrifying air disasters. And in fact, the plane that they took this flight on was the only plane that the airplane airline had left because they had lost so many planes.
Are you fucking kidding me? This was it. Yeah.
So backing up, we're going to talk about Julianne first. Julianne Kopka was born in October of 1954 in Lima, Peru.
Her parents were Maria, who she took this flight with, and her father was Hans Wilhelm. Originally, he was from Germany.
Hans and Maria had met each other while they were in a biology doctoral program in Kiel. Oh, how fucking rad.
They were both brilliant. Clearly.
Like, brilliant. This is a brilliant family.
They had focused and excelled in studying ornithology, and this is the study of birds, essentially. Oh, cool.
They also were heavily focused purely on zoology. They were just very interested in animals, like flora, fauna of the Amazon.
The research they did is, like, outrageous, and it's still going on today Once they graduated, they were looking to live in an area where they could like really dig their heels in and have a diverse and exciting field to put their degrees to good use in. They found that Peru was just that place because there was a lot of unexplored areas of very highly diverse creatures there.
So they moved together and they married there as well. And this was a massive thing at the time because during this time it was wildly taboo and completely unheard of, really, for a woman to even get a doctorate degree, especially in a scientific field of study.
But then Maria took it to another level when she moved with Hans to a foreign country before they were even married. Level up.
Level up. Level up.
She was taboo taboo. Maria was a super strong, really determined, and completely capable woman.
And Julianne is exactly like her in every way. Truly.
In fact, this is likely what allowed Julianne to survive when the odds were catastrophically stacked against her.

In fact, just to show you what kind of woman Maria was, she was once on a two-month excursion into the Amazon in 1955 when she was involved in a severe accident. A truck hit a power line and it ended up hitting Maria.
Oh, man. She lost her sense of smell and taste from this and suffered serious injuries, but her only concern was how she was missing work and wanted to get back to it.
Oh, my God. Yeah.
Like, just like, I want to keep doing my research. Good for her.
Julianne later said that when she was able to see her mother in her work environment, she was struck by how patient and tenacious at the same time she was. And she said nothing would deter her mother from a goal.
This served her really well because Maria published several books and pamphlets on zoology and ornithology and was one of the most renowned ornithologists in Peru. How incredible is that? And that's incredible anyways, but the fact that women just weren't really allowed to do this.
Exactly. Or weren't credited.
She just plowed through any boundaries that were like figurative or physical in front of her. Yeah.
Was like, no, I'm doing this. She was like, I don't give a fuck.
I'm going to do it. Yeah.
She's a badass. Now, her father, Hans, was just like Maria.
Like they found their match in each other. Hans was someone who never backed down and never complained either.
He just did what he wanted to do, did what he had to do, never complained. Whenever I hear about somebody that doesn't complain, I'm like, I complain so much.
And then I'm like, I should stop doing that. Like Hans.
Yeah, I know. But he had a lot of adventure and a lot of hard work under his belt.
And Julianne was always in awe of him as well as her mother, she said. She was just always impressed by her parents.
Those are like the two most incredible role models you could have. And it's like, that's all you want as a parent.
Yeah. Is for your kid to be like, wow, I'm in awe of my parents.
Totally. You know? And he actually wrote a book about zoology and aminals.
Aminals? You were thinking of the kids too much. I i did and i was about to say amazon and animals at the same time so i just reversed them animals in the amazon rainforest called the basis for a universally valid biological theory that do you know it uh it's a massive tome of knowledge at over 1600 pages and covers everything you could ever want to know about animal life in the rainforest that's wild like wild wildly he had survived his own perils in his lifetime as well he had been offered a job in south america and this being the 14 the 1940s when this happened um he had to make his own way there so he hitchhiked hitchhiked and hiked on his own through the alps to get there the fuck then when he was later in italy for his studies he was kidnapped and held in a prison camp in naples and he escaped and my ass this morning is like i don't want to get out of bed yeah i was like tired like they didn't do my coffee right at starbucks my whole day is ruined god damn this honestly this was a good it's a wake-up case to begin the new year with yeah because it gave me this like oh shut the fuck up energy yeah just do your job so what she wrote in her book which is i fell from the sky oh yeah it's I'll again I'll link it in the show notes when I fell from the sky it's an amazing book I'm proud of you for even saying those words yeah it's an amazing book I really imagine but my god is it terrifying she said I often think of my father's long arduous odyssey when i find myself in danger of becoming a little dispirited yeah and she said his story is an illustration for me that it pays not to let things get you down girl i'm saying isn't this is a good like yeah happy new year for real listen to julian julian is writing my anthem they she is she's writing everything so they had both built really impressive lives and careers around themselves through hard work and just discipline and perseverance and passion.
They were thriving as a family. After their wedding in Lima, Peru, Maria found out that she was pregnant with her remarkable daughter, Julianne.
I love this story so far, but I'm getting sad because i know i know they did have a

wonderful life together i will say that good after julian was born in 1951 hans's brother uh yokum moved to lima as well and this was hans's brother yep unfortunately yokum he died shortly after moving due to spasms i guess but it was tragic and still the cause of death is completely unknown and after his death

Hans's mother and his sister

traveled to Peru

to be with the little family and to kind of just like welcome Julianne into the world. But it was kind of like a sad moment.
Yeah. Do you think spasms was like seizures? I think it probably was.
Just didn't realize it. Yeah.
I imagine that it was probably like, you know, epilepsy. Epilepsy, right.
Now Julianne's childhood seemed like it was pretty wonderful. Yeah, it sounds like it.
She remembers being surrounded by animals and family, which sounds pretty great for a kid. Oh, my God.
It's like the fucking wild thornberry. It really is.
I just hit you. There you go.
She also learned compassion and hard work very early on from her very impressive and very hardworking parents. She would help her mother a lot nursing sick birds and taking care of young chicks that lived in their home.
Because Maria would take in any sick bird and she would nurse them back to health always. Can you imagine how rewarding that would be? And seeing your mother like that is teaching true empathy and compassion.
Compassion. Yeah.
For something that you that like most people don't show compassion for. It so true and something that can't give anything back to you it's just something that you are purely giving to exactly and not getting anything back but you just a sense of i helped that that's the main thing you know is like it can't do anything i mean you know it can be beautiful exactly but it's like too much in return it's not gonna sit there and like, you know, pay the bill at the end.
I was just going to say that. But in fact, through all of the hundreds and hundreds of birds that Maria and her daughter brought into their home sick or injured, not one of them died under Maria's care.
Wow. All of them were saved.
The importance of compassion and kindness were certainly a big deal in their home, but they also needed to make sure that Julianne knew the perils of living in the Amazon rainforest. They taught her a deep appreciation for the wonders, but also the vast dangers that lurked within it.
She was quickly shown how to survive and navigate the world around her without modern technology. They wanted her to always be prepared to make something out of absolutely nothing, And it's so fortunate that they did that.
I was going to say, it sounds like it would have been a major key. Oh, the most.
So they took her as young as five years old onto hikes with them through the Amazon where they would camp out in very simple tents or sleeping open in sleeping bags. Wow.
And taught her how to survive there. Oh, my goodness.
And what to avoid, what would help her, what kind of things she could eat, what she shouldn't even touch, how animals act around humans when they're going to attack, how animals act when they are just curious, you know, all of that. But because of her parents' hard work and willingness to make themselves uncomfortable for their careers and betterment of their family's lives they were doing

pretty well financially they had a maid alita who julianne became very close to in fact she is still close to her today i love they still have a relationship she had very fond memories of this time in her life and she said the people that she was surrounded by like the best kind of sounds when she was of age

Julianne attended the Alexander

Von Humboldt school

it's a german peruvian's private school in lima this school is pretty prestigious and was mainly catered towards international students from like pretty wealthy families she had friends and again holds very good memories of this time in her life she said every she was a very normal kid, very happy, very healthy. It had always been Hans and Maria's dream to take their research and conservation passions and skills to another level.
And they wanted to open a conservation and research center in the Peruvian jungle. How fucking awesome.
And they did. I knew it.
Of course they did. You didn't even have to say that.
They did. They were finally able to achieve this in 1968 when they opened their facility called Panguana in 1968.
There they planned to live deep in the Peruvian jungle, they thought, for about five years, studying the native flora and fauna. The thing was, Panguana was far away, like really far into the jungle.
It took days and days and days to travel through rivers, trails, jungles. It was super dangerous.
It was long. It was arduous.
During their trek, they would sleep wrapped in wool blankets on riverbanks and had to truly use all of their skills to survive together. But Julianne later said that at the time of this journey, she was 14 years old.
Wow. And she said at the time, she wasn't psyched at the idea of living in the jungle for years.
She's like, I loved the whole thing, but like, I don't want to actually live in the jungle for years. She said, quote, I was less than thrilled by the idea of living in the jungle.
I imagined sitting all day in the gloom under tall trees whose dense canopy of leaves wouldn't let a single ray of sunlight in. But luckily, because of her closeness with her parents and her adventurous and very adaptive spirit, she was able to really find that she loved living in the jungle with her parents.
She leaned in. It wasn't easy, though.
They had a house that was on stilts and had no, like, it had like half walls and just like a canopy over it wow it had to be really high like very high to stay away from predators and flooding and she would have to stay away from poisonous creatures like spiders and snakes and all that while doing just about everything yeah anything like sleeping yeah and all manner of animals were all up in her business at any given time like bats and like in the the house, like, you know, fruit bats. And they would, there would be all kinds of like things just crawling in there and they'd have to make sure that they were out and not poisonous.
There was no electricity, no running water because they didn't want any modern devices making noise to scare animals away. Like they didn't want a generator because that would keep all animals away.
Right. So they just, they were researching.
So her whole life had led up to this. She had been taught to survive, thrive, and to live with animals in the wild her whole life.
And now she was legitimately putting those skills to the test and she was gaining a lot of new ones every day that she lived there. She became even closer to her parents during this time and they really soaked in what they had to teach her while she was there.
Now, after a year and a half in 1970, unfortunately, this way of life had had to come to an end because the powers that be started to become concerned that Julianne, although she was doing homeschooling, was not receiving a proper education in the jungle. And they said if she didn't return to Lima to take on a regular school curriculum, they weren't going to let her graduate.
They all understood this. I was going to say, you have to.
No one fought this. Everyone was like, we get it.
Yeah, well, and they are two people that are like college educated. Highly educated.
So they know. And they were like, you know what? She has great experience.
Plenty. And we are glad we gave that to her.
And now she's got to do this. But now she can finish.

And she can always come back.

Exactly.

Now, luckily, because she was surrounded her whole life by her family and people who loved her, she was able to stay with family friends in Lima and continue her schooling at the same school while her parents stayed at Panguana. Okay.
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You can join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts. Now, Julian was always one to adapt in the jungle and in social situations.
She was a survivor through and through. So she fell right back into the traditional school environment like nothing happened.
Can you imagine one day and you're in the jungle and the next you're in a desk? Yeah. I've just been living in the jungle for a year and a half and here I am.
I'm at a desk and nothing's changed. We got new kids all the time, but none like that.
Imagine that fucking new kid showing up. Not that she was new.
She was in the same school. But then Julianne, it's like, whatever.
Nothing's changed. How cool.
She fell fell right back into the traditional school environment right back in with her group of friends like she referred to this as quote a wonderful light-hearted time and one that helped her grow in a different way than her adventurous time in the jungle yeah so the following year in december of 1971 julianne had blasted through her curriculum and had earned the credits and all the grades to graduate And she would graduate on December 23rd, 1971 She was also looking forward to the Fiesta de Promotion I believe it is Which is a party thrown by the school To celebrate graduation as well That's awesome Her mother Maria traveled to Lima that November To spend time with Julian, and they had planned to fly back to Paculpa after graduation. They would spend the holidays together, and then Maria would travel back to Panguana.
Maria had actually intended to leave a few days earlier, but Julianne had wanted her, understandably, to stay for graduation, so she stayed. Okay.
She didn't leave earlier. So Maria initially tried to book them a flight on Fawcett Airlines, but unfortunately with the holidays, there was no tickets.
So the literal only option they had was Lanza Airlines because they were the only other airline that actually flew to Pacopa. This airline was bad.
It had a very bad history of crashes and mishaps and hans that her father was horrified that they were going to be flying on it well you said they only had one plane left because all the others had been demolished oh yeah this is the last plane that's like that alone i'd be like yeah no hans actually insisted they cancel and book with another. Even if it meant staying another day, he was like, I don't want you coming on that.
But Maria wanted to get back home really bad, and she didn't want to wait. So Lanza had 20 years of terrible history behind it in 1971.
Just to name a few, a 1948 Lanza flight from Columbia crashed five minutes after takeoff and killed everyone on board. Oh my God.
Most of these crashes, by the way, if not all of them, are due to pilot error and lax maintenance on the plane. So they just weren't.
They just didn't care. They were hiring anybody and not taking care of their planes.
Less than two years after that, Alansa flight crashed into the side of a volcano in southern Colombia.

Oh my God. And one year after that, another crash occurred where 27 passengers and crew were all killed.
In 1966, a Lanza flight 101 carrying 49 people went missing in the Andes, and it was found that due to pilot error, it had crashed into a mountainside. Oh my God.
In 1970, lanza flight 502 from cusco to lima carrying 99 passengers 50 high school students as well dropped from the sky when an engine stopped working because it caught on fucking fire oh my god lax engine maintenance and pilot error were were this issue double time so it was time. So it was checkered.

God.

It was checkered. The other thing is, it's like, how are you flying into the side of a volcano in a mountain?

You're not supposed to be that low.

No.

And that's the problem.

You were supposed to be way up.

It's pilot error.

These are all, nothing is being maintained, was being maintained on this airline.

Were they pilots even?

That's what I'm saying.

So this was definitely checkered.

It was bad.

It was tragic.

Nightmare airline. In fact, people would say about Lanza, Lanza lands on its belly.
But sometimes these things seem less dire when you really want to get home. And sometimes you don't take it all into consideration.
It's like one of those things. Or when you're 19 and you book a little bit of a wild flight to Texas and you're just like, oh, the $120 flight, I'll take it.
Yeah, you did that. So I'm still astounded by that.
I did there and back. I'm astounded by that.
That was a cheap ass flight. So Maria told, actually said to Hans, not every plane's going to crash.
And booked the tickets for December 24th. So Christmas Eve, Julianne and her mother arrived to chaos at the airport.
Because of the booked airlines, everyone was vying for the remaining Lanza's flight. And since Lanza had crashed so many planes, like I said, they only had the one.
There was one plane left to this entire airline. But this one plane, Julianne said she looked out and she was like i don't know it looked brand new to me all right it looked fine like it didn't look like it was beat up it's not like i looked over there and there's like a propeller hanging from it like it's just like wasn't all crusty and dusty it looked like a plane so she said she believed it looked completely fine completely frightful like to this day she's like it's not if i had looked out there and it looked janky i probably would have questioned a little bit but she was like you look at a plane that looks brand new you don't know no what the hell are you supposed to know exactly now lanza flight 508 model l188 888a was actually a plane that was designed specifically for flying in desert conditions.
So not the rainforest. No, this would be a flight through the Andes.
It was not made for this at all and actually could not withstand heavy turbulence, which you would undoubtedly face over mountains and rainforest. Oh no.
As if this isn't bad enough, like, and this is wild, As if if it wasn't bad enough this plane was also made with spare parts of other airlines airplanes airplanes i don't know why i can't talk sorry spare parts spare parts from like whatever planes girly this was a junkyard plane this was just put to it was a frankenstein plane this was herbie fully loaded but worse this was Kirby, not loaded. This was, yeah, this is bad.
This was just put to, it was a Frankenstein plane. This was Herbie fully loaded, but worse.
This was Herbie not loaded. This was, yeah, this is bad.
This is just Herb. But at the time, no one knew this.
So it's like no one was told, hey, by the way, this plane is made from pieces of other planes. I think they would all question that a little bit.
Oh my God, I like can't breathe. Now, Maria and Julianne sat in the second to last row 19 the flight like i said was supposed to be an hour and there were 92 passengers on board about halfway into the flight 30 minutes or so they brought lunch and as they collected it a bit later they entered directly into a stormy patch of clouds a thunderstorm julian now i know now after doing a lot of research that like pilots don't want to fly through storms and they don't they will divert the airplane around the storm even if it means adding some extra time to your flight of course i would much rather that and we would all much rather that julianne says she felt a jolt in some severe turbulence luggage and things began falling from the overhead bins panic started ensuing pretty immediately she said and this is going to get very this i can feel my entire body like lighting up right now so if you have a fear of flying even if you don't i am going to talk about a pretty scary experience on a plane yeah if you would like to skip ahead a little bit i understand, I understand.
If you don't want to hear this part, it's going to be pretty quick. I don't have a fear of flying and I'm like, not even kidding you.
I'm in my like fighter flight stance right now. Yeah, she's like holding her hands.
So this is like a little scary. I just want to tell everybody.
Because this is like my whole body. But this immersive therapy, we're going to be okay.
I'm really proud of you for doing this. Oh, all right.
So she said, because I'm like, Julian lived this so i can talk about it yeah you know i mean like like if she can live through this and get on another plane i can fucking talk about it and her story deserves recognition because she's a fucking badass and i'm assuming maria passes away and this so her story deserves exactly so she said her mother was clearly anxious as this began happening and then she remembers a flash of white light as lightning struck the right wing of the plane.

Oh, my God.

Now, I would like to say right now, lightning hits planes. Yeah.
That happens. Happened to Miley Cyrus recently.
But there are things put in planes now and have been for a while that divert the energy from that lightning out of the plane.

So it does not touch the electrical system.

It's not going to explode the electrical system in fact if it does anything to a plane which it rarely does anything you never have any evidence of a lightning strike it can literally like make a pole that's like a dime size and it will do nothing okay just to put that out there because i looked it up yeah i'm glad you did but it's something that is in the plane that literally like throws the energy out of the plane it diverts it across the wings and out of the wings but you can actually see the pieces on the wings that do this oh you can which is interesting that will throw that energy out off the wings wings. So it's very interesting and that's why I'm going to link these books.
Okay. I think even if you don't have a fear of flying, it just might be very interesting to see how this all works.
I'm interested. But back then.
No. No.
And not on the spare part plane. No.
Yeah, that was not happening. So what happened was when the lightning struck the right wing of the plane, this lightning hit the plane like it was something that had absolutely zero things in place to divert that energy.
So that just was like lightning hitting an object. So she said, quote, with a jolt, the tip of the airplane falls steeply down forward.
I can see the whole aisle to the cockpit, which is below me.

People are screaming in panic, shrill cries for help. The roar, this is the part that I was like,

oh, the roar of the plummeting turbines, which I will hear again and again in my dreams,

engulfs me. This part gets me every time.
The last thing she heard, which she said was clear as glass over everything was her mother saying quietly and calmly now it's all over oh my god how immediately afterwards the plane went into a sharp nosedive right after she said that and she said she said the turbines i couldn't hear them i couldn't hear anyone else screaming. I just heard my mother say, now it's all over.

Oh my God.

I am literally, my entire body is lit up.

I am covered in chills.

Oh my God.

And you're, oh, to hear your mom say that.

Now it's all over.

And your badass mom who you have seen face everything in this world and do everything

she could.

Not even to cry it.

Just calm.

Not even to yell it.

Just quietly and calmly say, now it's all over.

A lot of people say that like the moment before you realize you're about to die it's weirdly like a calm a lot of people say that it just and then this is even scarier when julianne opened her eyes again because she said she could hear those turbines that roar because we've all heard that in like TV or movies when you hear that like a plane, something happened.

Or even when you're starting to land, you hear that like, yeah, like it's that bit.

But those are so much louder.

And she said it kind of like blacked her out.

Yeah.

In the nosedive, obviously.

So when Julianne opened her eyes again, she was outside of the plane. And no, she was not on the ground.
She was 10,000 feet in the fucking air. And still strapped to her seat with the row of seats still attached to her seat.
Just free falling? Falling outside of the plane. Her row? Two miles up.
What? Yep. Her row of seats just free falling from the sky.
With her still strapped to her seat. What? It was Werner Herzog who later said about this, and we'll talk about Herzog after this too.
He said it pretty perfectly. He said she did not leave the airplane.
The airplane left her left her yeah and as chilling as that statement is it's also very correct the plane had been essentially blown apart by the lightning and her row of seats with her still strapped to it was spiraling to the earth and julianne was just going in and out of consciousness so was her mother like thrown from, her mother was not in the seat next to her. Oh my God.
And if you think about those little like peapod things that are like our little helicopters you make the little helicopters out of, they're like that little boomerang shape. Yep.
How if you do that, like you flip it and it kind of spirals down to the ground. If you can think of that.
That's what her seat was doing. That's essentially what her seat was doing.
My God. Now, interesting, like a quick little interesting note about Werner Herzog, because I just mentioned him.
He was supposed to be on Lanza Flight 508. Oh, shit.
That day in 1971. He and his entire film crew had been scouting locations for his film, The Wrath of God.
And they were intended to be on that flight to head out to a scout a location. But because of all the chaos at the airport and this being the only flight, he was not able to get a seat.
And he made arrangements for another flight. Imagine all the people that weren't able to get a seat finding out about this plane crash.
And later he took this brush with fate and he he went back to this and he did something with julianne so we'll get to that after but she survived remember she survived falling more than 10 000 feet to the ground outside of the plane strapped to a row of seats how now julianne being brilliant attributes her survival partially to this row of seats she was still trapped to. Like I said, it began spiraling as she fell and this caused wind resistance and it caused it to slow as she was falling.
Right. Then she also crashed into the canopy of the jungle below.
There were trees, leaves, vines, other vegetation that she had already already slowed thanks to that spiraling which was also bringing her in and out of consciousness so she was also not tensed up because she was not even there right so it's spiraling creating the wind resistance she's limp and then she hits the canopy which slows her down caught her she hit ground below, and immediately the world went black. After an unknown period of time, Julianne began to have strange connected dreams, she said.
She said first she was running through a tight, dark space, and she was trying not to touch any of the walls. And she said it was loud with a roaring, humming sound.
Like an engine. Like a turbine surrounding her.
And before she knew it, she was shot into another dream where she was obsessively wanting to wash herself because she was sticky and covered in mud. Huh.
She said in this dream, she kept thinking one thing. All you have to do is get up.
Okay. And then she woke up.
She was no longer attached to the row of seats. She had become unbuckled at some point.
But she was now huddled beneath them instead. And it had rained.
She was soaking wet and covered in mud, dirt and blood. She was hurt.
But her injuries will shock you when you consider that she fell 10,000 feet from a plane that essentially blew up. She had a severe concussion that had caused her, and a cut over her left eye, and it caused it to swell shut, like huge.
She had a broken clavicle, which that's a... That hurts.
I'm not saying any of these injuries are good or easy. No, but when you, like, you would expect her to be...
Falling 10,000 feet, I thought she'd be in pieces, to be quite honest. Yeah.
All of her bones broken. No, a very deep laceration on her arm and a pretty big open gash on her leg.
Oh. Later, she found out she had ruptured a ligament in her knee.
Oh. But she didn't even know about it.
And she said, weirdly, she didn't feel pain at the time. That's wild.
Her body must have just been. She was in shock.
Coursing with adrenaline. Julianne said her first thoughts that were clear were ones of helplessness and, quote, a boundless feeling of abandonment.
I mean, yeah. You're all alone.
She saw no one around her either. She didn't see bodies.
She saw nothing. She was like, I'm alone.
I'm completely alone. Like you said, including her mother.
And she also had lost her glasses, which she needed to see. Oh, no.
She managed to crawl from beneath the row of seats and stand up. Everyone take that in for a minute.
She fell 10,000 feet strapped to a row of seats outside a fucking plane that blew up. And then she just stood up.
Like, what? Stood up? And she had blown apart a ligament in her knee and stood up. Now, unfortunately, she immediately blacked out upon standing, but Jesus.
So flight 508 was scheduled to land at 4.30 PM that day. And when it didn't show up with no communication, everyone started to panic because this is Lanza Airlines.
Family and loved ones were trying to get information from Lanza officials, but they were giving out contradictory and half statements. They had no idea what had happened.
They were just out like completely in the dark. A search operation was started and is still the largest in the history of Peru.
Wow. But it was still pretty small because it was the holidays and most of the officials were gone for the holidays.
Also, there was no communication from the plane and the thick canopy of the jungle hid the crash site. Oh.
So helicopters were sent over the site several times and rescue planes, but they couldn't see the crash through the trees. Right.
Julianne, however, could hear and see them. No.
But was helpless to tell them she was down there. No.
entire journey rescue planes flew above her and she would just look up and be like and she'd try to yell for them try to show them but they never saw her because she was not rescued by a rescue plane wow so day two so she was out for the entire day she blacked out gone didn't wake up until the next day, which was Christmas morning.

Yeah, exactly.

And she was unable to stand without passing out, but she fought and fought,

tried to do it slowly and slowly, but she kept passing out, coming back. That concussion must have been gnarly.

And think about how sick and awful you feel when you pass out.

Yeah.

If you've ever passed out. She was just doing it over and over again, just trying to stand up.

That's so much on your body.

And she finally got herself onto her knees and she stayed conscious.

and after a lot of time, passed out. She was just doing it over and over again, just trying to stand up.
That's so much on your body.

And she finally got herself onto her knees and she stayed conscious. And after

a lot of time and a lot of struggle, she was

finally able to stand. And when

she did, this is when she realized

that her clavicle was broken.

She said horrifyingly,

quote, the two ends

had pushed on top of each other.

Oh. But they had not broken the skin and she couldn't feel the pain from it what so she could feel the two ends that had broken pushed on top of each other like the middle part like that and she could feel it which i'm sure was an outrageous even if it wasn't pain that she could feel it was outrageously uncomfortable she dealt with this for 11 days oh my god 11 days and she has like multiple open wounds oh yeah she was shocked that she was not feeling a lot of pain and once she had stood and assessed her surrounding she was again confronted with the reality that her mother who had been sitting in the seat next to her was nowhere to to be found.
No one was. She wasn't seeing anyone.
She was completely alone, not even bodies. And she said it was the loneliness of this that was the worst part.
Of course. She said it made it her mission to find her mother.
She was like, even if my mom is dead, I need to find my mom. Now, this is when those instincts in those years of her parents teaching her survival and strength kicked right in.
It's almost like her whole life led to this. Yeah.
She was in the jungle. She knew the jungle.
She knew how to survive this. And although she had never done it under these kind of circumstances, she was ready to be that bad bitch that she is.
And in her book, Julianne says that she immediately told herself one thing. she said, quote, with calm and methodical thinking, you could master almost any situation in which you end up in in nature.
I think that's such a good motto to live by. Calm and methodical thinking is like my lifeline always.
It's so true. And I think it really is if you can calm yourself, which is no easy task, and you can get into that methodical thinking space, you really can get through most things.
That's exactly how you get out of an anxiety attack. It's true.
But it's easier said than done. Of course.
You can do it. Yeah.
If you really, really find the tools to do it. Now, Julianne said, first things first.
Of course, I want to find my mother, but I need to put my oxygen mask on first before anybody else's. So she knew the first thing she had to do was find a source of fresh water.
A human can only last three days without water. She started licking the leaves she found because it had rained.
So she was licking water off of all the leaves and like drinking it off the leaves. And she hadn't found a bigger source of water.
So this was just going to have to hold her over. Now, not only could she not see any bodies or people at all around her, but she said there was barely any plane wreckage around her either.
Weird. But luckily, she did find a bag of candy and a Christmas stallion, which is like a fruitcake.
Oh, that's great. That somebody had had in there.
Unfortunately, the Christmas fruitcake had sat in the mud and rained for two days and it was soaked in like muddy and disgusting. Julianne left it.
She took the bag of candy and left that. She says now she definitely should have taken it.
Okay. But at the time she was like, fuck that.
That's gross. Well, and she probably also was thinking like maybe like bacteria or something.
Bacteria, exactly. But she says now she's like, I probably should have taken that fruitcake.
Just like cut the top off yeah i mean i think we can all forgive her this little uh mistake i suppose considering she fell out of a fucking the sky yeah i would say she spent hours around the craft site searching for supplies anything that could help her with survival she found no bodies no survivors and no real supplies she could use either wow uh it was these hours that she first heard the rescue plane above her. She had nothing to signal with and told herself she had to make her way to people because she was like, they're not going to find me.
I have to find them. So as she realizes this, she hears the sound of dripping and running water.
Okay. We love it.
And so she follows it. She found a river and she followed it downstream for hours and literally climbed over trees and huge boulders bushwhacked her way along the river until night came remember what just happened to her she's incredibly concussed she fell 10 000 feet from the sky her clavicles are overlapping she has multiple lacerations and one of her eyes is swollen shut and she also can't see without her glasses yeah that just that yeah like i did a peloton ride last night and i was exhausted i was exhausted i was nauseous because i was like, oh, my God.
Meanwhile, you're just like in your attic.

And I'm like, what the fuck is wrong with you? Like, this has put so much in perspective for me.

I'm like, fuck. Literally.
Goddamn.

My ass got a facial last night. I was like, well, I can't work out tomorrow.

Can't do that. Damn.
Yeah. Like, Julianne, thank you.
Thank you for being who you are. You know those creepy stories that give you goosebumps?

The ones that make you really question what's real?

Well, what if I told you that some of the strangest, darkest, and most mysterious stories

are not found in haunted houses or abandoned forests, but instead in hospital rooms and doctor's offices? Hi, I'm Mr. Bollin, the host of Mr.
Bollin's Medical Mysteries. And each week on my podcast, you can expect to hear stories about bizarre illnesses no one can explain, miraculous recoveries that shouldn't have happened, and cases so baffling, they stumped even the best doctors.
So if you crave totally true and thoroughly twisted horror stories

and mysteries, Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries should be your new go-to weekly show.
Listen to Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.
You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple podcasts.

Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect. or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

Everyone has that friend who seems kind of perfect.

For Patty, that friend was Desiree.

Until one day... I texted her and she was not getting the text.

So I went to Instagram, she has no Instagram anymore.

And Facebook, no Facebook anymore.

Desiree was gone.

And there was one person who knew the answer. I am a spiritual person, a magical person, a witch.
A gorgeous Brazilian influencer called Cat Torres, but who was hiding a secret. From Wondery, based on my smash hit podcast from Brazil, comes a new series, Don't Cross Cat,

about a search that led me to a mystery

in a Texas suburb.

I'm calling to check on the two missing

Brazilian girls. Maybe get some undercover

crew there. The family are freaking out.

They are lost.

I'm Chico Felitti. You can listen to

Don't Cross Cat on the Wondery app

or wherever you get your podcasts. So night came, she was clearly exhausted, and she found a place next to the stream where she just fell asleep.
At this time, news of the crash had reached Hans Kopka, who had convinced, who was, at this time, he thought his wife and his daughter had heeded his warning about flying lanza oh and weren't on the plane oh so his hopes were crushed to the following day when he caught a news report that had listed all the passengers and maria and julianne kopka were on there i can't imagine and knowing that feeling knowing that he didn't even want them on that flight. Oh, and just, and to have some sense of calm, like, no, they weren't on that flight.
They weren't on that flight. I told them not to get on it.
And then like Julianne, knowing that her father didn't want them on that flight, not knowing what happened to her mother, knowing that her mother just wanted to get home for Christmas, like just wanted to get to him quicker. Him she just wanted it like it's a whole it's horrible so day three on the third day December 26 she woke up and continued following the stream it was winding and not straight which made it more difficult and long to follow and the obstacles were still there but she took them all like the badass she is she Goliath bird-eater spider on her way.
I looked it up so you don't have to. It's a giant tarantula that eats birds.
I don't have words. And she said that alone would have killed her.
Like, if that thing had come close to her, like, that would have been it for her. And honestly, me just looking at it would have killed me.
you say it was a giant a goliath bird eating spider goliath spider should not be in the scene it would have been cardiac arrest for me it's it's it's giving sinister babe i don't know if you guys follow vibe guys you need to follow um i don't know the tiktok name now shit oh hang on i'll pause there's a there's a tikt TikTok that you guys absolutely need to follow. Yeah.
Okay, you tell them the TikTok name and then I've got a hot goss to throw on you. So there's a TikTok account.
That's given Sinister by... I don't even know how to describe it, but it makes me laugh and gives me joy.
Just go follow the account. Every single time that I watch any video.
And it is at SinisterP at sinister palm babe pond babe okay i'm gonna link it in the show notes because i hope she gets a billion followers because i think she just reached like 100k followers and i'm like let's get her get her to a million let's bring bring her to the billions it's the way she tells stories and she has the best accent and she says babe after everything and she'll say it's giving sinister vibe i've been saying it in my real life can't confirm all the time it's giving sinners it's dark sadded it's dark sadded she is so fucking funny please follow her please follow her vibe i want babes page to just blow the fuck up to pop off i

want to make it pop off because she's so fucking funny and this is truly the goliath bird eating spider is sinister babe so sinister babe that it's inch long fangs babe act like hypodermic needles babe yeah yeah long thanks yeah it is giving dark sadden and she had to see this sinister spot oh my god she had to see this thing along the way and just avoid it no just hope to avoid it i feel like they're crawling all over me but but besides that sinister moment babe She also had to climb over boulders, fallen trees.

She had to dodge other animals, other insects. She faced it all with a concussion, a swollen eye, and a broken clavicle.
I'm not well bitch. Throughout the entire journey, she heard the continuous sound of planes above her searching for missing flight 508.
To be that close to rescue and to full well know, like I'm so close, but it's not going to happen. It's right there.
Like I have no way to let them know. Right there.
And you just keep hearing it and you're like, yep. And then you're probably like, they're going to give up.
It's awful. When are they going to give up? Right.
Exactly. When am I going to stop hearing that? How hopeless.
And when I stop hearing that, that's the true like no one's coming. Now the Amazon had jaguars, cougars, and at least 17 different species of supremely venomous snakes.
Yeah. Finally, after hours and hours and hours and hours, the stream opened up into a big river and into it, Julianne waited because she thought, okay i'm gonna just float down this river i'm gonna let the current take me i'm gonna hope to make it somewhere water snakes aren't there remember the amazon is a constant barrage of threats to humans in the water there were several different types of caimans what is that which are like tiny looking uh little alligator things they're very dangerous i say tiny but they get big i'm gonna see um they're scary there's anacondas my anaconda don't no and sting rays piranhas bull sharks sometimes yeah but remember sharks are among the most dangerous oh yeah and there's some in this fucking river yeah piranhas just make me think of Wednesday.
Yeah, there you go. So, but remember, Julian is a bad bitch.
Always remember that. Never forget it.
And she has also been prepared for this shit her whole life. She would lead.
Yeah, right. I'm sorry to interrupt, but you said tiny.
I know, I don't know. Because sometimes I'm thinking of baby ones are tiny and cute, but like big ones are scary.
They are Thickums McGee. They're huge.

And they will eat you in one little bite.

They're like alligators or crocodiles.

Like, you know what I mean?

Like that kind of.

It's an alligatoroid.

Alligatoroid.

There you go.

That's terrifying.

But what she would do is she would lead with one foot.

And she said she found her sandal, like one sandal.

Oh.

And so she would lead with the sandaled foot.

Okay.

And feel things out in the water.

Smart.

And then she used a large walking stick to touch in front of her before moving forward.

So she didn't step on anything.

Exactly.

The entire time she was walking, she was just slowly eating the candies out of the bag just to keep her going.

Just to picture her like, I'm just picturing her with like a big old bag of skittles yeah just sitting there eating them just floating down the amazon river poking out for piranhas bull sharks after falling 10 000 feet out of the sky the fuck now hours of walking through the water was when she finally saw a piece of the plane wreckage it was in the middle of the river she saw a large turbine that no it's that fear of big things that are not supposed to be i'm doing i'm doing the nah that the nah motion right now like like not for me like cut it out yeah uncle joey cut no cut it out i don't want seeing a large turbine in the middle of a river that's not it it's that's giving sinister vibe. That's giving dark sided.
That is the most dark sided. Because I'm telling you, go follow that account.
I'm telling you. You gotta.
It'll just give you joy. When you need a little pick me up, you need to laugh at something silly, this is the account for you.
I don't know why. But it is.
You're great. Just speak to your soul.
If you're listening, the person who owns that account, you you're sinister vibe you are sinister vibe you're giving me a lot of joy so she said Marie Kondo's what Julianne said was she just stared at this turbine she said she stared at it and she was just amazed at what she was looking at but mostly she said which I'm like this is just this is Julianne she like, but then I got happy because it meant that I was likely going in the right direction. True.
To find more pieces of the plane and possibly more people. Yeah.
She said she was convinced that she was not the only survivor. She kept saying to herself, she's like, there is no way that only I survived this plane crash.
I could understand that. There has to be more survivors.
Yeah. And she said years later, she would return to this memory of seeing this turbine in the middle of the river.
Yeah. And she said she would return to it over and over and over again, think about it all the time.
And she said it would just amaze her how like she had this weird detachment from discovering proof that a plane had exploded around her. Yeah.
Like she was like, I was looking at a piece of the plane that I had just been sitting on two days earlier. And I'm sitting there going, wow, that's interesting.
That means there's people over there, I bet. And instead of just being like, what the fuck? Like crazy.
And she's like, I just kept returning to it being like, I don't know what was going on there. I feel, I just being like what the fuck like crazy and she's like i just kept returning to it being like i don't know what was going on there i feel i just feel like her mom was with her too you know 100 guiding her yeah giving her strength i think so too now this was when ground searches were knocking into high gear back in lima and they had begun to journey through the jungle looking for the crash site damn now unfortunately this was not organized well and they were sending them in wrong directions because they were getting false leads and like shitty tips because of all the false leads being sent in the government actually had to impose a blackout on news reports because people are shit everywhere always and this was to stop the false shit from spreading, but also it kept the families in the dark.

They didn't know what was going on. How sad is that, that like when certain media gets involved, even like it reminds me of the Idaho killings.
Yeah. The amount of misinformation being spread now that he's been apprehended.
Yeah. It's crazy.
And it's so easy for it to spread too. Now, day four brought a horrific memory and discovery for Julianne, and one that I can't imagine stumbling upon.

No.

She said on this day, she had walked for a few hours and then remembers distinctly hearing, quote, the flapping of large wings.

Unmistakable, louder and lasting longer than that of other birds.

This was very concerning because she knew what this was.

She said it was the king vulture. Uh-huh.
And she remembered a lot about this kind of bird. Specifically, she knew from her mother's lessons that its presence meant there was a large amount of carrion very close by.
That is dead meat. Oh.
Unfortunately, she was right. Now, she left the river and walked into the jungle until she came across a row of three seats from flight 508.
Oh, no. They were lodged three feet deep into the ground upside down.
Oh, my God. So they were upside down.
So the head portions of them were in the ground. This meant that they had hit the ground with unbelievable force.
Incredible. Unbelievable force.
What is worse, all three passengers were still strapped into the three seats. All of them were lodged headfirst into the ground.
Oh my God. Only their legs jutted out.
And as Julianne described it, quote, their legs were just jutting grotesquely upward oh and it was two men and a woman that's awful of course this would destroy anyone but julianne fought against any initial instinct to run because she said her first instinct in any of ours would be to run the fuck away from this site absolutely this would be the most horrific that i would just want to get as far away from this as possible. And she knows that the fucking king vulture's on its way.
So I'm out. Which might I note has a wingspan of about six feet.
Yeah. That's why the sound of it is very distinct because it's huge flapping.
This thing is massive. And I'm sure the sound of it flapping is probably really scary.
I wonder if we can find a sound of it. Yeah.
Because just to give you a full picture here, like we'll pause and find a sound clip, I think. We will not find you one because I looked.
And yeah, you really can't get a clear one that sounds like anything other than like, boop, boop, boop, boop. We're not meant to hear it.
We're not. That's what we believe.
In trying to find that though find that though i'm not gonna live in this alone i found a fucking video of an eagle that found a goat and carried that motherfucker into the air into the air nature it's giving sinister it's getting sinister by it really is but what is the fucking planet yeah so this is after julianne discovered this horrific scene she fought every instinct she had to run the fuck away from this and instead she went closer because even though she knew logically that none of those passengers were her mother because she had to be sure she had to be sure that's love so she used a stick to move the woman's shoe and saw that her toenails had been painted and her mother never painted her toenails oh that's just like such a i know it's such a like a specific thing yeah meanwhile the king vultures perched above her in the trees and were just waiting for her to leave essentially yeah because they're not very confrontational they're not so they were just waiting for her to leave they were like can you please leave they also don't have eyelashes they don't we found that out that's interesting um and she searched for anything else that could help her but nothing really could just pieces of scorched plain were in the area so she went back into the river and it was just those three passengers she that's. That's all she found.
Now, night four, the candy was gone. No food in the immediate area.
And this crash had happened in the rainy season when fruit was not plentiful in the trees, like it would have been in dry season. Right.
She didn't have tools to open any of the fruit anyways. And she didn't have any way of getting up into the high trees to get the fruit.
So she drinks from the salty river and like dirty river water just to keep herself somewhat hydrated and distract herself from the hunger. Right.
So as she fell into hunger and exhaustion, she came across a barrier of driftwood and tangled reeds that would be impossible to climb in the river. This made her have to leave the river again, which was dangerous and difficult.
And she had to get through the dense, unbeaten jungle for hours before finally being able to get around that and back to the river. When she does, this is the first time that she sees that the canopy above her head has opened.
There's an opening of the trees. And now she sees the plane as it flies over oh she can hear it she can and now she's seeing it and she's like they might be able to see me so she starts waving her arms and screaming throwing things like trying to get the attention it hovers and then just leaves oh yep this would have been devastating i can't imagine this was the closest thing to being able to be seen to her that could have happened and it didn't happen and this is night four yeah this is night four um i believe it is let me no this is a this this was night four we're into days like five and six at this one like we're kind of like all bleeding into each other but this is devastating um and julianne says it was it was this when she finally took stock of her situation and finally started to think about not only what had happened but also how vast and massive the jungle around her really was and she said this made her start losing hope so she didn't let it consume her because she said if she had really fallen into thinking about what was actually around her and what wasn't around her you'd lose she wouldn't be able to go forward now to give you context for what was around her jaguars the amazon rainforest covers more than 2.5 million square miles of land wow 59 or a little under 1.5 million square miles is in Peru And in 1.5 million square miles of rainforest land They're really estimated to live just a little over a thousand people Wow Yeah In 1.5 million square miles of land That's crazy Which meant the odds of her running into a person for help was essentially slim to none.
Like more than that. Or less than that.
Yeah. But she didn't let this take her down.
A lot of people would have given up. They would have let the insurmountable depression of this reality just make them lay down and hope to be found.
Yeah. Or just surrender.
But it's Julianne we're talking about. So she kept going down the river.
She knew if she let the current push her down the river, she was conserving her strength as well as keeping herself safer on land, too. Because if she's in the river, the things on land can't get to her.
And she felt like she could at least contend with the river shit. Now, also, days in the Amazon were about 85 to 95 degrees.
Oh, humid too and nights could get colder and remember she was wearing i think the only thing she was wearing at this point was like a cotton short dress and she's wet now and she's wet and during the day she was being beaten down by the sun and then soaked and at night she was just freezing oh my god she was also being assaulted by mosquitoes every other insect it was hell and at night they would just buzz around her in the day they would buzz around her constantly think about mosquitoes and it's like those kind of bugs buzzing all the time would drive you insane insane like i would lose it so julianne's concussion by like day seven. So we're a week into this.
Thank God. Julianne's concussion had actually kind of afforded her a big, like a bit of reprieve in a way in the beginning days of her survival.
She was in kind of a brain fog of sorts. Right.
So she could really only think and focus on survival. What was in front of her.
But by the seventh day, she was really only thinking about her mother and the reality of her situation finally. And sometimes the thoughts were typical.
You know, she's a teenager. So she would sit there and she would think about, you know, what she wish she would be doing right now, what her friends were doing, who she missed, like, you know, I wish I could eat my favorite junk food kind of thing.
And then she would get like super existential as well. Like thinking about like what's the meaning of all this? Like am I supposed to be here? Why did this happen? Like why me? You know like all that.
And although she doesn't really understand why or how, she knew in that moment and she knows now that her survival meant something. Of course.
She just didn't know what. Of course it did But she was like, there's no way this was an accident.
There's no way this is coincidence. I'm meant to do this.
I'm meant to be here and I'm not meant to die alone in the fucking rainforest with no one knowing what I've done. I just fell 10,000 feet from the air and survived seven days.
I'm not supposed to die right now. I'm getting out of this.
The river is not taking me down. Nothing's taking me me down so she resolves that she's like i'm gonna get to safety i'm gonna lead a life of meaning and i'm gonna contribute to the world when i get out of here wow like she sat there at 17 years old in the fucking rainforest in the middle of a river a week after falling 10 000 feet from the sky and said i'm going to make a difference in the world.
To have that wherewithal. At 17 alone, but then you add all of those circumstances.
Now, at this point, her resolve had not dissipated. She was still sure there had to be another survivor of this flight.
There was no conceivable way in her mind that she was the sole survivor. So she was just always looking out for people.
And by this time, a week after the crash, she noted that the cuts on her arms and legs were starting to look pretty bad. And now they were starting to hurt.
The laceration on her calf had become very irritated and very swollen. She's in the dirty river water too.
It's not helping. And the laceration on her arm was feeling very painful and very hot, but was in a place that was difficult for her to see.
It was like behind her arm. So unless she strained her neck to look at it, she really couldn't see a lot of it.
But when she did finally see it, she saw that maggots had actually begun to burrow into the wound. Oh my God.
Yep. Flies had laid eggs in the wound, probably while she was sleeping.
Oh my god. She knew that this meant, she knew that it meant that if she allowed them to continue burying into the wound, it was really going to get bad and possibly need to be amputated.
So she tried to pull them out herself using a piece of bent plane metal that she molded into tweezers oh but she couldn't get them and just had to give up and keep going down the river with maggots in her arm i don't even yep she just was going down the river with live maggots eating the wound on her arm that she got when she fell 10,000 feet out of the sky. I'm not well, bitch.
I am not well, bitch. This is coupled with another scary turn of events.
Like we've stated many times before, Julianne was very experienced, so very knowledgeable about the jungle and survival. And she knew that most of the animals in this jungle would probably be terrified of her and pretty much keep their distance.
They would run from her normally, but she now sees that they were making themselves known and seemingly watching her, following her, acting curious of her. I'm just so fucking stressed.
What this told her was that they had probably rarely possibly never seen a human before.

Oh, my God.

Their lack of fear was evidence of that.

This was a crushing blow to her spirit because she now knew that she was completely isolated from anyone else.

These animals had not seen a human before.

Oh, my God.

She was the first one to roll through here.

Oh, my God. So days eight and nine, it was now that the sun started to unleash the full assault on her body.
Oh, and her like infected wounds. Oh yeah.
It was eight days in and she woke up in searing pain on her back and shoulders and realized that she had about a second degree sunburn on her back and shoulders that had actually broken open and was now bleeding. What the fuck? Yep.
Unfortunately, she can't do literally anything about this and just has to keep going in this unbelievable pain while bleeding. Not like she has any fucking copper tone on her.
Nope. This day is when she began to hallucinate as well.
Her mind started to play a lot of cruel tricks on her. She keeps being sure that she's seeing houses in the distance.
Oh, no. But it's just a sea of trees.
Why does your mind do that? It's just, I don't know if it's, I think it's partially like a survival thing, a preservation thing. It's trying to get you in a cave.
Yeah, trying to get you to keep going. She also has auditory hallucinations, thinking she hears chickens, which would mean that humans were nearby, but it's just jungle birds that she

hears. This may have broken someone else's spirit, hearing and seeing things only to realize that

they were not real. But Julianne said it made her strive even harder to survive because she was now

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Start your free trial in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Now, while she is hearing and seeing these false images and sounds, she accidentally gets her foot stuck in a sandbank.
No. And it makes her trip and fall.
Oh my God. Now, she's been traveling through the jungle for over a week straight with no food and little water, no medicine or aid for her wounds.
And she is likely fighting various infections. When she hits the ground, all she wants to do is sleep.
She was like, I hit that ground. And I was like, I can't get up.
Like, this is it. And she can't fight the urge anymore.
Her body is telling her, go to sleep. Go to sleep.
So she closes her eyes and just lets herself rest on the jungle floor for a few moments. But then she said she was woken up by a chirping sound.
And it's not a bird chirping. She knows that sound.
Go away. It's a baby caiman.
When she opens her eyes, she sees a baby caiman. And then she sees its mother.
And they are approaching her in a very aggressive and very threatening way oh my god and she said if she jumped up like she wanted to they would have attacked her and and got her in an instant they would have she would have no choice no chance but she said what she knew she had to do was just slide away from them so she slid on the ground away from them slowly when every cell in her body said was screaming at her to jump up and run the fuck out of there she was slowly sliding like a worm on the ground until she slid back in the river and let the current take her away and got away eliza fucking thornberry yep but unfortunately this also cemented her the knowledge she already knew that there were no humans anywhere near here because she said there was a large amount of caimans and that made it sure that there was no humans around fucking alligigators, y'all. Yeah.
Fucking aldigators. Yeah.
But the ninth day, she was beyond exhaustion. And her hunger was something that was no longer something she could ignore.
And it just ate away at her. It's all she could think about.
She tried for hours that day, she said, to catch poison dart frogs to try to eat something. You can eat them even though they're poisonous? them even though they're poisonous i think there's a poison sack that i'm sure she knew where it was and she said she tried for hours literally all her energy was spent trying to catch these frogs she couldn't couldn't catch one and ended up just falling asleep in the middle of it so the 10th day was the same she just let the current take her down the river.
And unfortunately, the river is now becoming less open and expansive. And now there are dams of driftwood and rocks that are, she's having to climb over and avoid.
She has zero energy. So you can imagine how difficult this was getting.
She has fucking maggots in her arm, y'all. Yep.
As the day went on and eventually the sun was beginning to set, Julianne saw what she thought was like a gravel bank on the shore.

So she was like, you know what?

That's a great place to get some sleep i'm gonna lay on the bank and just let my body rest chill so she laid down just let her body begin to let go but right before she was closing her eyes she saw something oh no it was a boat she saw a boat and in her head she was like this is a mirage like close your eyes look at it again so she thought like she blinked and when she blinked it was still there and she's like and i looked around and it was still there still tied to the bank no one's in it so she shook her head still there she reached out and touched it still it was It was a boat and she was touching it. And she said, and it looked new and it looked like it was in working order.
Meaning someone who ran this boat is nearby. Yeah.
Like at the very least. Yeah.
So she explores the area around the boat. She's got like a newfound energy.
She didn't even know existed within her at this point. She's got hope.
She finds a footpath that she said was not natural it was cleared by hand okay she follows it and finds a tambo then you're like who the fuck am i gonna find exactly so she finds a tambo which is a small like shack that was made by hand where people will store supplies like gasoline for boats and such yeah yeah now this was crucial because it confirmed there had been a human around and also there was gasoline in there, which could be used to help her maggot infested wound. Debbie bought gasolina.
There you go. I don't even think that's right.
She gritted her teeth and poured the gasoline onto her wound, which would cause unbelievable staring pain. But because she is brilliant and learned from experience and from her parents, she knew this would do something internal to heal, like to help get those maggots out.
That's so horrific. First, it made the maggots try to dig deeper into the wound.
But eventually it forced them out. Oh my God.
So she was able to pull some of them out. She pulled over 30 maggots out of that wound.
I need you to need you to stop saying the word and she later found out that there was far more that had to be removed later oh my god so she's trying to sort out her thoughts make a plan so far she didn't see a human but just evidence that one was around at one point in the recent past so she did think really quickly about just using the boat to take her down the river honestly but then she was because she was just so tired. But literally, I mean, she just performed amateur surgery on her arm.
True. Essentially.
But she just laid down and she was like, I'm going to lay down first and think this over. And then when she started thinking about it, she was like, well, taking the boat is a nonstarter because it would help me.
But I could potentially be abandoning someone else in the Amazon rainforest. And she's like, I literally can't do that.
And she wrote later, I cannot possibly save my own life and jeopardize another's. That's a human right there.
So she did borrow a tarp from the shack and laid down on the banks to sleep again. Okay.
Now, day 11th, when she woke up, there was still no one around her. Suddenly, a depressing thought hit her like a ton of bricks.
Sometimes hunters or woodcutters would use these tambos while they were out in the jungle and then they would just abandon them for months, sometimes forever. Even their boats? So when she didn't know, she was like, I don't know.
So she made the impossible decision to continue floating down the river now, just hoping that maybe she would come across a village or evidence of more people. So she's about to go into the river and then it begins to rain.
And once again, her exhaustion and her lack of nutrients and infection were making it impossible to move very much. And she didn't have a lot of strength.
So she's like, you know what, it's raining. I'm going to stay in the shack until the rain passes.
Okay. I think a lot of this is her mom.
I do too. Like the universe and her mom working together to make sure.
Because in the afternoon, the rain finally stopped and she was still alone. So she made the decision to move, but unfortunately her body still just wouldn't even stand.
Like she had no strength. I mean, she just had to pour gasoline into her arm.
Exactly. It's almost like something was working there to keep her there.
So she decided to rest another full day. She was like, I'm going to give myself another full day to regain some of the strength and then I will start moving in.
I might as well just stay in the shack while I can. So she's in a serious state of despair at this point.
She hasn't eaten even a little something in over six days and has only drank dirty river water she's been bitten on every inch of her body by a variety of insects as she tried to sleep and they're buzzing in her ears she's cold she's soaking wet suddenly her brains begins telling her that she was correct more people survived the crash but they stayed put and they were saved that's what her brain is telling her now you were correct yes people survived but they were all saved and you're left here no alone no no this was she said this was just she was like the i i was the only one left i was the only one that left the crash site and now i'm stuck in the jungle forever because of my decision. No.
That's what she said. Like her brain just started going against her.
And in her book she said she thought to herself how strange is it that a person can disappear just like that and no one knows about it. It is crazy.
So she just lays in the shack for most of the 11th day just trying to catch something like a frog to eat. She was seeing them.
She just couldn't catch them. She never gets one.
The hunger really starts to shut her body down even more. And as twilight seeps in and another day passes behind her in the jungle, she hears it.
Voices in the distance. Immediately she sits up, but then just as quickly her head tells her, that's just another auditory hallucination.
Don't listen to it. She doesn't want to get excited, but she keeps hearing them.
And then she's hearing them getting closer and closer and closer. And she's still trying to convince herself that this is just another hallucination when suddenly three men just emerge from the jungle.
Immediately, they all like jumped back when they saw her in the shack. What the fuck? Because it were just like what the fuck but they look at her and they knew about the plane crash oh my god and they're like holy shit she was almost too stunned to speak but she quickly regained her composure and said in spanish i'm a girl who was in the lanza crash my name is julianne oh my god these three men were forest workers and they immediately hustled Julianne to safety.
Oh my God. They brought her back to their camp.
They fed her. They gave her clean water, dry clothing.
They helped to tend to her wounds to the best ability they could. Oh my God.
They even took out more maggots out of her arm themselves. Stop.
They then praised her for staying at their shack.

They were like, that was a brilliant decision.

We're so glad you did that.

And they said, if you had left that area,

you would have never been found

because the rainforest as you go further out

gets more uninhabited.

You would have been going deeper into it.

And they said her body,

by the way, the condition they found her in, they said your body would have given out by tomorrow you'd be gone like there's no way you were going to be living wow and they said that um she if she'd even tried to float down the river that would have been out she was literally on her last breaths essentially when they got her that was her strength and her mom with her no fucking doubt in my mind exactly they weren't in what's even crazier and this is why i'm like holy shit everything worked they weren't even supposed to have returned to the shack that day they were just but they wanted to make sure that the boat was still tied up after the rainstorm otherwise they weren't coming back to the shack kismet and he said they said they never would have found her that all of that was meant to be yeah 100 000 gajillion percent so she immediately asked them about other passengers other survivors and they tell her the airplane hasn't even been found and you are the only survivor oh my god and she asked about her mother even though they just told her no one survived and they said no you are the sole survivor can you imagine the weight of that falling on you hearing that like out loud it's just you

she tells them the story too like because they're like you have to tell us like what have you been

through like yeah it's been almost two weeks like what's going on so she tells them the story

she told they should and they kind of tell her to like about the massive search that's been going on

and she's like i heard the planes and they're like holy shit like they were on toppy like that's

Thank you. them the story she told they should and they kind of tell her to like about the massive search that's been going on and she's like i heard the planes and they're like holy shit like they were on toppy like that's wild and they're telling her like you know they like everyone thought everybody was gone no one thought that somebody survived like no one's gonna believe this she told them about like going down the river about the vulture she told them everything the alligators yeah they tell her that the next morning after she sleeps, a real sleep, they will take her to Turna Vista where they can get her proper help and medical care.
They're angels. And Julianne couldn't sleep that night even though she was safe.
She was like, I just couldn't believe I was going to get out of here. Yeah, she's probably so excited.
Now, it is very shortly after Julianne's discovery that it's like headline news worldwide. A lot of lies were told because the press.
They somehow tried to make her story like even more sensational, which they did not have to. Like there was they were saying that like she had like made a makeshift raft that she lived on for 11 days.
And it's like, no, she didn't. Yeah.
And I think it's even more impressive that she didn't. And that she woke up under three bodies or something like that and she's like no i didn't like that none of that was true why would you why does your brain even go there and the times actually quoted julianna saying and this isn't not a real quote they quoted her as saying i felt a sensation of emptiness but i don't remember anything else until i woke up on the ground with three bodies on top of me.
She didn't say that. How do you? What? And then they said that she told them that she survived by eating the Christmas cake, which she had been taking to her father.
And she's like, nope, that wasn't even mine. That wasn't my Christmas cake.
And I didn't need it. So what's worse is in the days that followed the rescue, also the press started to kind of turn on her a little bit.

What?

And they started saying, well, she ran away from injured passengers who could have been helped.

No, honey.

They were three feet into the ground or just gone.

Yep.

Like, fuck off. Yes.

Luckily, for the most part, the overall tone and the most of the tone was celebration that she was alive.

Isn't it wild that there were trolls in this situation?

Trolls in every situation.

Trolls will always.

They will always find a way to be miserable.

Trolls be trolling.

But they spent, so these three men and Julianne spent 11 hours on a boat going to Turna Vista.

God.

Once they arrive in Turna Vista, she's taken to a hospital where she's finally able to get real treatment and medicine for the various infections she was suffering from unbelievably she has to fly to yarren coca i believe it's called to get better medical treatment and this is where she would actually stay and be stabilized but she was actually she was absolutely terrified this is less than two weeks after she fell out of the sky. Fell from the sky.
Yeah. But she was also so out of it and had no strength.
So she was like, I couldn't fight it. I just caught on the flight.
I just needed to go to a hospital. And she needed better medical attention.
But like, holy shit. Wow.
And she wouldn't have lived if they tried to take her a slower way. Like she had to get on this flight to get there.
It's almost like a mid-ne spent months in that medical facility in yarren coca but she was strong and by march she was back in lima and back in school oh my god yes she loved being back in her normal routine and around those she loved her dad but the press were fucking nightmares and they hounded her day and night leave her alone day and night so because of all the craziness her father hans actually had her sent to germany to get away from it she lived with her grandmother and her aunt there and julianne said that he had good intentions moving her there but she felt very betrayed by it because she said she was in such a state she just got reunited and she had lost her mother in that way that she was like being sent away felt like i was abandoned yeah and that's not his intention but like he was also going through the trauma that he had gone through so it's like this was just all a lot of confronting a lot of different trauma well and i'm sure in his mind he probably felt like she needed to be with her grandmother as like a maternal figure even. I think he just didn't know what to do.
And with his own grief of losing his wife, which he and his wife were so close, like they were together in the jungle 24 seven, you know, like their bond must've been outrageous. Absolutely.
So it's like, this is just unthinkable. It's so layered.
And she said, penguana and my school were the only things left for me. And she said that's when she felt the sense of abandonment.
Unfortunately, Hans was very understandably devastated by the loss of Maria. And Julianne said she, quote, suspected that for him it was a problem that I survived and not my mother.
Oh. And what I think she means by that is that only one of us came out of that yeah not that it was not that it was bad that it was her who came out of that it was just like i would rather have both of you and i think you know like i really want both of you would be a reminder constantly looks like her mom yeah like you know what i mean like she has a lot of her mom's features i'm sure that's like really tough that's that's on a different level of trauma and it's a different grief like i don't know that grief no i can't imagine that grief i don't know the grief that julianne was going through and i don't know the grief that hans was going through so i'm not going to judge either or i have no idea what that feels and oh that makes me want to cry right now and julianne loves her parents and respects her parents to this day.
She does not have bad things to say about what happened here. I don't think anybody could have handled that situation.
I don't think there is a proper way to handle that situation. I honestly don't know what the way to handle it would have been.
But Hans left Panguana for Peru in 1974. He just kind of left and didn't say goodbye to anybody and didn't tell anyone he just started living in germany but everyone said he was just never the same like it just destroyed a huge part of him he died in 2000 at 87 years old wow julianne said their relationship definitely changed when she came home that's really sad um it never really recovered but she but she kind of, like, she could understand in some way.
Okay. Later, Julianne actually learned she wasn't initially the sole survivor of that crash.
When the crash site was later found, they discovered bodies and were able to bring them out of the jungle. And there was also evidence that at least a few of them, 17 to be exact, had survived the fall from the sky.
Wow. But their injuries were so significant that they died very shortly after hitting the jungle floor.
One of those people was Maria. She survived initially? But she was nowhere near Julianne.
Nowhere near at all, yeah. Like nowhere near her to find, nowhere near where she would know where she was.
But they were able to recover her body? They were able to recover her body. She said when she, Julianne said when she found this out, it did shatter her.
Of course. Knowing that her mother had survived at some point and that she wasn't near her.
Yeah. Now, an investigation into the crash found that the crew was under a ton of pressure to keep the schedule on that flight because things had fallen behind during the holidays.
So they pushed through the storm instead of diverting around it and adding more time to the flight. Dude, time is made up.
Lightning is not. Yeah.
Fatal error. That's ridiculous.
Also, the plane was in terrible shape. Like I said, it was put together with scraps of other plane to begin with.
And after this, Lanza shut down. Good.
Bye, Lanza. Now, Julianne did not return to Peru for a decade.
And honestly, I probably wouldn't ever return. But she was a PhD student.
Oh my God, of course she was. Yeah, and had an opportunity to study Amazonian bats in Panguana.
Again, the place where she had lived with her parents and formed such a strong bond with them and foundations for her eventual unbelievable survival. And she took the opportunity and spent 18 months living in Panguana finishing her dissertation.
My God. After surviving in the jungle, she went back to the jungle.
She's the most badass woman I think I've ever heard of. She also became the director of Panguana after her father died.
Wow. And in the 1990s, she returned to the crash site with director Warner Herzog, the actual crash site.
And he was the one who was supposed to go on that plane with his crew. Exactly.
And she said this is when she really realized how badly she wanted to return to the jungle. And she wanted to preserve her parents' legacy.
she said this was when it hit her and she

said the way she looks at it quote the jungle caught me it saved me it was not its fault that i landed here yeah how do you look at it that way i don't know like how do you have the fucking you're a beast of a human now we talked earlier about how filmmaker werner herzog was supposed to be on Lanza Flight 508. But he actually made a documentary in 1999 called Wings of Hope.

Wow.

And where he returned to the jungle and to the crash site with Julianne.

They walked to where she crashed and also visited where she was rescued and the stops along the way of her unbelievable journey where she just tells the story.

And she talks about all the emotions she felt, the pain, the numbness, the times when she thought she couldn't go on anymore. She talked about the isolation and feeling of loneliness.
That truly goes unmatched. I can't imagine.
No, none of us will ever know what that's like. As they go through this experience, she would stop and pick up pieces of the scattered, like picking up pieces of the plane that are still there today.
Wow. It's just scattered over a crazy amount of space.
And they actually visited Poculpa, where there's a cemetery that many of the passengers from Flight 508 are buried. And there's a big memorial that the graves are all around.
And there's this map in the memorial that traces with dotted lines from the crash site to Turna Vista, where Julianne was eventually healed. Wow.
Under the memorial, there are the words, a lost day Esperanza, or Wings of Hope. all 71 passengers and all six of the planes crew died in the crash with only Julianne surviving.
That is so remarkable. Yeah.
Today, Julianne Kopka is married and actually goes by Julianne Diller, her married name. And she splits her time.
She lives in Munich and she also works as a librarian at the Bavarian State Collection of Zoology and Panguana. My God.
She does it all still. She has spent decades in Panguana building it up, making the facility and the institute larger, more like with more resources.
And it has actually been designated as a conservation area now. She flies all the fucking time.
all the time flies all the time is making the world a better place is treating animals is studying is researching is bringing new information into the world is a fucking g the gst there was a point earlier where you said she was like all right first things first and first. And all I could think of is first things first.
I'm the realist. Drop this and let the whole world feel it.
That's Julianne. She's still in the jungle business.
Julianne. My God is one of the most inspirational people I have ever read about.
I want to play this episode for my children someday and be like never fucking complain about anything like i know we all like everyone's allowed to complain about shit like shit goes down we're not saying like oh you know you're never allowed to complain no i'm joking but it's like if you feel yourself slipping into a rut of like everything sucks and i'm mad and this is annoying to me and let julianne guide your way julianne just think about julianne just think about that journey just think about maggots in her arm i could be stuck in the rainforest right now face to face with an alligator and it's fucking baby i could be sitting next to my mother one second in a plane and then i I could be crashed 10,000 feet out of the air in the second. And then I could spend almost two weeks battling the Amazon fucking rainforest.
You know what's fucked? Just to survive. We're going to be on a plane in two weeks and that's fucked.
Yeah, but you know what? It's okay. This plane is from 2000 and whatever.
Yeah. This plane can withstand a lightning strike.
This plane has had regular maintenance. This plane has a very professional pilot.
Yeah. And flying is different now.
I flew over tornadoes earlier last year. So we good.
We good. Actually, I was flying the day that Miley Cyrus's flight was hit with lightning.
That day. We all know that day.
I know that day. Do you know where you were that day? How could you forget that day? I was on a flight and she was too and it got hit by lightning.
But she was fine. But she was alright.
Exactly. Because the planes can withstand lightning now.
That's my point. And also no plane has ever crashed due to turbulence.
There you go. So you can take that with your hat.
And jello. And jello.
Oh, yes. If you, I don't know if I've mentioned this before.
I think maybe. Maybe I have.
But if I have, hear it again. If you haven't, here you go.
There's a TikTok where this girl said that she heard from a pilot that if you ever get nervous about turbulence and you can't understand what it is because it is very scary. I was going gonna say a little it's very scary i like shit my pants every time there's a little uh she put a little rolled up piece of paper and a little cup of jello and she put it in the middle and she said here's the plane and the jello around it is the air that you're flying through and then she taps the jello and you see the jello just kind of wiggle and she said is that piece of paper gonna drop and you, TikTok, it's not.
And she says, that's because there's all this air pressure underneath and all this air pressure on top and on either side. And that little piece of paper isn't going anywhere.
It's just jostling around because the air is jostling around. And she said, anytime you get in turbulence, just think of that.
Think about Jell-O. And I'm telling you, it helps.
The last time I was on the plane, I thought about Jell- thought about jello that's what i thought about too and it helped me oh but again i will link some of those books in the show notes in case you are a fearful flyer or if you're not and you're just interested in yeah totally but i'm telling you julianne did it julianne still does it she gets on a plane so i can get on a plane julianne for ever yeah julianne for life she's a inspirational inspirational bish to say the least yeah i love her wow well with all of that being said i thought this was gonna be a short episode but you're insane you always think it's gonna be a short episode and then we have like four parts yeah but we love you for it i try and we love you guys we love you and we hope that you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird oh weird i was like why did you just say weird i don't know because we did the the yeah

i don't know i don't know we were like it's getting sinister vibes it's giving dark side Thank you. If you like Morbid, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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