Episode 629: “Weirdos’ Audiobook Club” presented by Audible – Blue Beard with Special Guest, Spencer Henry From Cult Liter

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Hey, Weirdos, I'm Ash.

I'm Alayna.

And I'm Spencer.

And we are having another installment of our Weirdos Audio Book Club.

So thank you for being here today, everybody. We're grateful for you.

So grateful. If you didn't know, we have Spencer Henry from Morbid Network's cult leader, obituary, and their newest baby show, Gossip Spridal.
Hi, everyone. I'm so excited to be here.
We're excited to have you. I feel like you're the perfect fit for this because you love old-timey true crime.
Mm-hmm. Love it.
There's a lot of reasons as we go into this title today why it resonated with me, and I just loved it so much. Ooh, I'm excited to hear.
That makes me excited. I know.
Well, before we dive into the title, we want to thank Audible again for the partnership and for bringing this special little bonus to all of you guys. Bluebeard is an Audible original, so if you haven't already listened, head on over to Audible to dive into this title.
Our lovely friends are sweethearts at Audible, and they're still offering that free trial for you guys. So you can take hold of that nifty gifty at audible.com slash weirdos for your free trial.
And of course, we also covered this case on Morbid. It was episode 626.
So if you need to refresh your memory at all, or if you want to listen to that for your next Morbid listening journey, it's there for you. It's there for you.
We're there for you. This title is there for you.
We're all, everything is there for you. It's true.
Do it. It's a crazy case.
Like this case, I went into, because it was my episode when we covered it on Morbid. It was my episode.
It was my episode. Holmesy style guy.
So much deeper. And it did kind of feel like he had those vibes to him just because of all the fraud and shit he was committing like across borders and shit.
And the aliases. Canada.
The alias I. Like this guy's bonkers.
Oh, he is wild. And organized.
And I'm like, R.I.P. Walter, you would have loved Tinder.
Oh my god, truly. Yes.
That would have made his scheme so much easier. Because thinking about the logbooks and shit that he had to keep to keep his different wives straight.
Keep track of them, yeah. In letters.
If he wanted to, he would. Absolutely.
He had to keep his communication with them straight. What he told one, what he told the other, the different stories he was telling them about why he was out of town all the time.
I can't remember what I had for dinner last night. No, that's a lot to keep up with.
Yes. Stressful.
I can't imagine what his nervous system looked like. Oh, it was riddled.
It was riddled with anxiety. Yes.
with anxiety maybe it wasn't though maybe he was just totally cool as a cucumber i mean yeah i think he just riddled our nervous system exactly yeah well i think he just was really good at probably compartmentalizing all of it yes definitely kind of like dissociating from all of it like yeah he had to have it's a good point he brought and he probably learned that in childhood because like if you go back and listen to the episode where we cover the real case like he definitely had a gnarly childhood yeah so that's a good point spencer oh i listened oh i listened you better believe but yeah i think a lot of times it's like survival tactic is learning how to compartmentalize all those separate areas of your life and kind of dissociate from them a little bit. And that's probably how he was able to do that and not have these really strong emotional ties to any of it.
Yeah, definitely. He was never really taught to have a strong emotional tie to anything because his own parents treated him like shit.
And his mother really treated him like shit. And then, I mean, once he finally got out of there, what was what was he 12 years old I think when he got out of there and went on his own it's like then the world treated him like shit and obviously that's no validation or like justification for what he did it's just I think this is why he was able like you said to just like shut it off because he was like well no one's ever had connection to me.
So why should I have a real connection to anyone else?

I think you're, I think that's exactly it.

Yeah.

Everyone used him for what they could get out of him.

So he just decided that that was the life he was going to live.

And he did it in the awful way.

Yeah, exactly.

And he could have gone the other way.

Plenty of people have.

Plenty of people have tragic backgrounds.

Plenty of people get treated like shit.

And they go on to be amazing people who are like, I'm not going to continue this cycle. But he's an asshole.
Go to therapy, Walter. Go to therapy, get a gratitude journal.
Be grateful. These are all steps.
Do some self-work. Well, before we get into it even further, I just want to talk really quickly about the writers for this title and the process, because it's really, this is an interesting one.
It is. So one of the names you're definitely going to say, wait a second, I know that name.
Jim Clemente is one of the authors of this. He's a former FBI profiler who was part of the team that cracked the DC sniper case.
Which is wild. Yeah.
That's a big deal. He's been part of like huge cases.
Like this guy has flex on flex on flex. He's a former New York prosecutor.
He's a writer and producer for Criminal Minds. Oh, love that show.
Yep. He's a podcaster for Real Crime Profile, Best Case, Worst Case, FBI Profilers, and Criminal Archives.
He's after our own heart with all those podcasts. He is.
And he's also a consultant for law enforcement and for creative projects that involve his, like, massive expanse of expertise. And he's just, like, wildly impressive.
And he had, like, a really tough, like, beginning to life as well. He has a lot of, like, things in his backstory that he could have turned the other way and he went this way so he's like also very inspirational if you read up on him definitely and he was a first responder at 9-11 so wow yeah so he's just how do you even lift that resume like I don't even know how he carries it around with him Right? He's done it all.
And then his co-author was Peter McDonald,

who is an author with 43 books. Like, damn.
43 books. That's insane.
Like, what? That's all the books. I don't even know if I've read 43 books.
I can't name 43 books. Like, wow.
Truly. He's also a podcaster and a journalist.
So together, this was the perfect team, I think, to do something like this. Yeah.
100%. Yeah.
A good duo. The duo of the century.
Well, and what's interesting is they went into this actually thinking that they were going to make a documentary series. Oh, yeah.
And then it turned into this title, which I love knowing how a project started and evolved. And I feel like, I mean, this still could make an excellent documentary series, but I'm glad that they did the title.
That makes so much sense if you listen to the title that it was laid out that way. Because my favorite thing about it was just listening to it like you can fully have visuals on everything that's happening at the time they did such a good job with translating that yes 100 they really did and it reminded me a little bit of your new show gossip's bridal with all the soundscaping and everything the like immersive experience of it oh spencer's gonna love this i know i truly all of it i was like obsessed listening to it the whole time I felt like I was like, oh, Spencer's going to love this.
No, I truly, all of it, I was like obsessed listening to it the whole time. I felt like I was like in an old detective novel or something.
Yes, you get transported. When you can hear the music, like the old timey, like, oh.
I'm like, give me a cigarette, babe. Yes.
And let me just unravel this. Give me a cigarette and a fedora and I'm ready to go, baby.
Let's go. You're sure? Well, it all got started when Jim Clemente's friend, he was helping this elderly woman just clean out a storage locker.
Like most inconspicuous thing you could ever think of, you know? Yeah. And they were like clearing out random boxes.
This was in L.A., right? In L.A., yes. And she told him, oh, you can just get rid of that box over there.
And he was like, okay, like maybe we should check inside first. Just, you know, make sure nothing important is in here.
And something important was in that box. It contained this leather bound tome and that contained Bluebeard Watson's confession inside, which is insane.
I just got chills. Yes yes he confessed to the murder of 10 wives

and to think that that leather-bound home was in there containing that confession confession like three days worth of confession and this tome actually belonged to the one and only jb armstrong who's the pi that was hired by katherine when she suspected that her husband was just cheating Miss Wallbacker was Mrs. Wallbacker.

Exactly.

So just literally opening that up and sifting. by Catherine when she suspected that her husband was just cheating.
Oh, my God. Mrs.
Wallbacker, exactly.

So just literally opening that up and sifting through the pages

must have been bonkers wild bananas.

Yes.

Imagine finding that.

Ugh.

And Jim Clemente has it now in his personal collection.

Yeah, he got to talk.

Has that leather-bound tome.

Yeah, our producer Mikey got to talk to him,

and he showed him on the Zoom, and we were all, Mikey was showing us afterwards. We were like, oh my god! So jealous.
We gotta get Jim on the horn. Let's get Jim on here.
Show me your book. Show me that leather-bound tome, Jim.
I wanna see your book. I'm trying to see it.
Well, obviously they were immediately interested in this story once they heard about this discovery and once they you know sifted through this tome of theirs so they researched watson even more to find out about his crimes his detailed confession and when i say detailed like i said it took this guy three days to get everything out and it was that confession that really voiced the narrative of watson in this title so it's very true to who Watson actually was. Yeah, for sure.
And you can tell, like, he does, because it's Joseph Fiennes that plays him, he does a good job of making him unlikable. Unlikable, but you could see why women, like, would be drawn to him in a way, almost.
Yeah, were going walks the line if you were going into this story blind i think you would be like oh i like this guy like what's this guy's story but if you know the case and you go into it you're like i don't like you but you're kind of like toying with yourself of like yeah i kind of want to like you but i know what you do yeah you know. But after working out the whole story, Clemente and McDonald pitched this story to our friends over at Audible.
And they suggested maybe converting it into a radio-style drama, actually. And ultimately, it ended up being directed by a Canadian director.
And this is interesting. Canadian radio-style dramas continued way past the point where they did in U.S.
like when we transitioned over to TV so he was really well versed in that type of production because you know they experienced them way longer but to talk more about the production let me hand it over to my girl Elena because this is really interesting like Spencer said it's like a super, like you feel like you're there experience. And that definitely goes for some of the actors, like Catherine played by Karen David, Watson's played by Joseph Fiennes, and J.B.
Armstrong, our guys, Adrian Pasdar. I think the three of them did an amazing job.
But what really set this whole thing into a different realm, I think, is that how they recorded this. So they recorded live in three different time zones, first of all.
Each recording space for each actor, it was set up and movement was choreographed. So the actors would move through the space while the microphone was set in the

middle of the room so all of this would impact the sound so audio was like 3d immersive you heard the movements that they were making because they were physically making those movements in a room like it wasn't put in later or something like that so you heard them in real time like very organically't that cool? It is cool. And I feel like that's a very different and unique style of doing something like this.
Definitely. And just the fact that people in three different time zones were able to collaborate like this.
I'm like, damn, I can barely get a meeting on the books with East Coasters. Literally.
That's the thing, you know? Like, we were trying to, we can barely get time to hang out with friends. I know.
Just us trying to all get our schedules locked. A lot.
Meanwhile, they're like, let's soundscape this shit and record the entire title all at once. In three different time zones.
Wow. That's incredible.
Yeah, it's crazy. So, what I think also makes, like, takes this one and kind of, like, separates it from a lot of titles is the way that the this is obviously inspired by a true crime case and they kept a lot of it very true to what happened and the way that they kind of like fictionalized parts of it to me didn't impact the case in a way that was like negative i think i think if anything it only made it easier to follow you know i definitely.
Like the plot. It just added to the story, but it didn't add anything unnecessary.
Exactly. Totally.
And it's just an engaging way to tell the story. Like with this radio style and 3D audio, it, like we said, pulls you into each scene.
You feel like you're there. You feel like if you close your eyes, you can just like hear all this because it's like we were talking about before, like the music in the background and you can hear someone lighting up a cigarette and you can hear.
So you feel like you get this everything happening all around the room kind of feeling.

and it's also cool that this narrative definitely places it in that specific time and place like it has nods to the formation of the bureau of investigations which is like blowing that would

that blew my mind. Just like being in a place that you're like, oh, that didn't exist yet.
Like, fuck. And it was also like the end of the Spanish flu that they have a nod to, the beginning of prohibition.
I think all those things being tapped at during this really placed you in that time. Yeah, place you and like little reminders along the way like this is where we are, you know, like we're not in 2024.
Right. When I kept thinking of other like infamous crimes of that time like the Wineville Chicken Coop murders and all of these Los Angeles crimes that happened, I mean, not the same year, but like within that realm.
And it's just, I don't know, it's so fascinating to see how everything was handled in those days in comparison to now. And there's a lot of things that you look back and you're like, why would they do that? Why wouldn't they do this? But a lot of what they were doing is still really advanced given the tools that they had at the time.
Yes, absolutely. We're always talking about that, how in these time periods, it's like we don't have a camera on every street corner.
We don't have someone with a phone recording it. We don't have a digital footprint.
We don't have this and that. Even like fingerprinting was still in its infancy you know it took a lot to solve these crimes which makes it more fascinating in my opinion yeah for sure yeah well and it makes you wonder too certain crimes that happen today you're like how'd they not figure that out everyone has a fucking camera on their house because it's like true how are they catching these people with literally just like boots on the ground detective work here? Like, that's what this is.
And I mean, and also like speaking to how they were able to solve this stuff. One of the great themes in this whole thing is women not being passive and seeking out answers.
Which I love because you think of this case as a whole. And I mean, women are the ultimate victims in this case, but they're also the hero of this case.

Absolutely.

Like Kat is a fucking boss.

Yeah.

You want to talk about feet on the boots on the ground?

Yes.

Let's talk about Katherine Wannebaker because.

Let's talk about her.

Damn.

Because she was also the one.

First of all, she wouldn't let anything.

She wasn't letting that go in the beginning.

She was like, I'm pretty sure he's having an affair. Fuck we're gonna catch him i'm getting my divorce yeah just to think that she needed to have like a straight up reason to get divorced and like a very compelling one not just like somebody had to be her husband had to be guilty of a crime for her to be granted the divorce you should just be able to have a divorce if you don't like his ass anymore yeah it's so it's so complicated because even now there's i mean it's a lot easier to divorce somebody now but it's still like this personal battle that i think a lot of people have where there's so much back and forth so i can't imagine doing that and on top of that having to have like a good reason in the eyes of the court or the law in order to go through with it.
Right. And that even cheating was barely sufficient.
Yeah. You can tell Kat is having that personal grapple because even when she knows how terrible he is and she's working with the private investigator, when Walter calls her and talks about wanting to knock her up, she's like, well, maybe I should call this whole thing off.
And I was like, girl, no, don't do it. But it shows that she still was kind of like battling with thoughts of whether or not she should just kind of ignore everything and put it on the back burner.
She was a product of the time.

Yeah.

I was just going to say society was influencing her big time. And being like, maybe I should just have a baby with him and we can have that, you know, classic family and I'll just ignore everything.
You know what fixes a toxic relationship? A baby. Yeah.
That'll fix things. Well, and like to prove your point even further, like to add to it, he went after older women, like widows, people who had previously been married and lost somebody, you know, like these women did want to have families.
And for a lot of them, it was like their quote unquote last chance to have a family. Yeah.
They're vulnerable. They're susceptible.
They're kind of like backed into a corner again by societal norms and societal pressure. But absolutely.
A hundred percent. Yeah.
I want to high five Kat from the future. Exactly.
And like, girl, you did it. And while Kat, like in the, in the actual case, she didn't like, you know, team up with the, and like go to the extents that she went to in the title.
She did not, it wasn't her just sitting back and not doing this stuff. Like she, like we said, was the one who was like, I'm pretty sure he's having an affair and I'm not letting it go.
So JB Armstrong, like let's get going. And she even provided additional information and documents to further prove, like once it started unraveling, she was like, oh, here's all this shit.
If that's going to help you nail him, like nail him like here it all is like i found some more shit for you and that's her in real life like that she really did do that like she was vital in unraveling this whole thing because she wasn't even as a product of that time and society around her at the time she wasn't a woman who was going to sit down and just be comfortable passively letting these things happen to her. She knew something was amiss right off the bat.
She took action right off the bat. And of course, she had no idea, like no way of knowing how amiss things were.
What exactly she was unraveling here. And what she was up against.
And it's like, once she found out that there was like way more shit than just an affair, that she was like, he could possibly be murdering these women and like, maybe he was going to murder you. Instead of like, just falling apart, which he had every right to do, hearing that kind of news about your fucking husband, she turned around and was like, how can I help? How can I make sure that he doesn't do this to anyone else? And they're like, what a badass.
A hundred percent. She like followed her intuition.
Yeah. And I mean, it's the ultimate like going through his phone.
Yes. It's like his behavior.
Yes. And it like leads you down this crazy rabbit hole where you're like, oh, okay, this is much deeper than I thought.
Yes. I love that her version of going through his phone is trying to get into his briefcase.
Yep. His duffel bag that he carried around everywhere.
That's the classic. Which I'm like, could you be more conspicuous? I know.
Just carrying around a duffel bag of marriage certificates? And being super weird about said briefcase slash duffel bag? You're going to carry around a bunch of shit be so weird about it yeah listen she is a victim in this situation but there were several red flags especially like when you're listening to her narrative in the title i mean well first of all i was laughing in the beginning because she's talking about meeting walter for the first time and she's talking about how he kind of catfished her and she says no one would accuse him of being handsome which is diabolical that is the biggest read also in the book she's talking about like you know how they got married after four weeks and she's like i couldn't think of a reason i shouldn't i'm like girl i can i, I can. I can think of him.
Yeah, I can think of 22 different reasons. Let me list them up for you.
Because he was described as being like a gnome looking motherfucker. Ugly.
He absolutely was. Paraphrasing.
But it was like, he was like a gnome like man. He has this little alfalfa too in his mugshot that I just want to rip off i mean i don't see it i don't i mean who knows what was going on with walter otherwise who knows looks why i think he had charisma working for him unfortunately that can work charisma can do the trick uniqueness nerve and talent and she said too when he moved when he moved in, he moved in with little possessions.
And that is also the goal. That's ideal.
Don't disrupt my space. We don't need...
You have four things? Great. Your collections here, okay? We don't need that.
Your briefcase fits over there. Everything else, gotta get rid of.
Yeah, I think he was just a master manipulator. Definitely.
Like, master manipulator. And he was playing a character.
Of course. So it's easy to make somebody like a character.
At all times he was playing a character. You're playing a role.
I do love one of the things I love that they did do in this title is for a brief period of time while I was listening, I was like, uh-oh, are they going to make Kat and Detective Armstrong fall in love? Because I will not be pleased with that. I was worried.
It felt like that might have been the direction they were going. And I was like, don't you dare take away her agency like that.
But nay. But they didn't do it.
They did not do it. And I have to say, coming from two men authors, thank you.
Yes. Thank you for making this girl a standalone badass.
Yeah, and just letting her have her own agency and being her own character that was just like being a badass and wasn't trying to fall in love with another guy. What was the test that we were talking about? They passed that test.
The Bechdel test. They passed the Bechdel test.
Yeah. It did.
Because it's not just having this woman be completely in relation to what she's doing with a man yeah damsel in distress like please help me i don't know what to do she's like yeah here's what to do this is what i want to do put your cigarette out it's gross and let's go let's go don't be dumb did you guys have a like a favorite badass b moment of cats mean, I'm a real sucker for any sort of library scene or imagery in a book. Yes, me too.
They're talking about going through the records and she's in the library. I mean, I get chills thinking about it right now.
But when she was going through all the different Lonely Heart ads and under different names names, but the same. Comparing them all.
Yeah. Comparing them all and seeing that it was clearly all written by Wilter.
I just had a moment where I was like, oh my God, she's cracked the code. Like she got her confirmation.
I love that. I love that too to come to that realization.
And the amount of people who tried to convince her that these were just other men stealing that Lonely Hearts ad. Oh, the gaslighting.
The gaslighting was outrageous. Wait, people trying to gaslight a woman? That's crazy.
I've never heard that. That actually never happens, you guys.
No. That's why it's fiction.
You know? You women. You're hysterical.
You're so crazy. That's us.
We're just kooky. That's us.
What was yours, Elena? My badass bitch moment was definitely I loved when she was like hiring J.B. Armstrong.
And he was like being like, whoa, whoa, whoa, at first. And he's like, because she's like, all right, so what do we need to do? What do you need me to start working on? And he was like, no, no, no, you're my client.
Like, I'm the detective here. I'm the investigator to start working on and he was like no no you're my client like I'm the detective here I'm the investigator and she was like actually no you're my partner now we're working together if you're not willing to treat me as a partner I'll go find someone who will and I was like snap snap snap I was like yes she was like I don't need to be here I'll find somebody who actually respects the partnership and doesn't treat me like a little peon.

Because this needed to be a partnership.

She had so much of the information that they needed.

Yes.

A hundred percent.

And I think going back to when she cracked the code, I think it was just like I loved that she figured it out on her own.

Like she didn't have anybody else really helping her.

Nope.

Other than Hillary, the librarian. Who I love.
Queen Hillary. We're like becoming friends and at the end of the book,

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we're like, we're like, we're like, we're and hillary's like i'm here for you i was like oh god i love that's the thing i love that one she didn't fall in And two, she found another female friend to be a badass with. Yes.
Love that. And again, two like male authors like snaps to them.
Yes. Showing female friendship and bonds.
And they did a great job with it. Did you have one match? Yes, this is small, but I love the way that she handled that hotel owner when she was trying to use his car.
She was like, I will not be swayed. Thank you.
Like, uh-uh. Like, I'm not happy with that.
Not happy with it. She was so confident.
She was so confident. She was just like, yeah, no.
She's like, I will be taking your car. Thank you.
Thank you very much. Thank you so much.
I just, I feel like they gave her flowers in this story. Yeah.
Like, showed off her badassery. And again, especially given the time period, it was very brave of her to do what she did.
And she obviously faced a lot of adversity while she was doing it. But look what she fucking did.
Yeah. Without her, it could have kept going on and on and on for a long time.
And to think how many more people he could have killed. Absolutely.
Okay. So obviously I live in Southern California.
I live in Los Angeles. And I used to live in live in signal hill which is a small unincorporated area where the body of nina lee deloney was found oh shit i was like going through newspaper archives trying to do my own little sleuthing to see if i could figure out where in relation it was to i used to where i used to live but i was just finding like old press photos that didn't have any exact addresses.
But I was like, damn. Oh, that's spooky.
Yeah, that's wild. I know.
Being in LA must be weird that way because so many things have happened there. You're just like surrounded by...
Well, they just get publicized more, I feel like. Yeah, that's true.
No, it's true. And you know the locations of a lot of them mostly yeah so you can just be like i'm surrounded uh-huh 100 yeah also at the end of this whole title when she speaks the names of all the victims in the court scene that was chilling putting that in there was iconic and it was so perfect like so ending on that was like yeah i love the nod to to the reality yeah and in the the true part of this crime making sure that they were heard as well because obviously cat was the focus of the narrative of course but the fact that they didn't forget about the other victims along the way that was was nice.
That was great. Yeah.

Yeah, we recommend this title 10 out of 10.

If you haven't listened to Bluebeard on Audible,

you got to go listen.

And it's a quick listen, too.

It's a quick listen.

It's a three-hour.

You will want more.

Exactly.

Yeah, it's three hours long. I mean, if you have a long commute,

you could get that done in a day, babe.

Yeah.

There is one scene of them eating.

Just be forewarned.

Yeah. If you don't listen to to that it's less than three hours so there you go but it's quick yeah but just warning there's also one of them um you know what you'll get there so anyway um if you haven't listened to this title don't forget that our sweetheart friends over at audible are offering you guys a free trial at audible.com slash weirdos.
Audible. Head over there for your free trial.
Thank you to Spencer for joining us today. We love hanging with you.
Thanks for having me. We love Spencer.
We love you. And if we all want to end this on just maybe a title that we're listening to or recently listened to that we recommend.
So my recommendation for a title to listen to is Sleep Tight by J.H. Markert.
I recommend all his titles and all his books, in fact, because I think he's a brilliant horror author. It's a perfect one.
It's got like a creepy little fictional town in it. He's really good at infusing like some supernatural elements, but they don't even feel, they feel like they're just reality in it.
I haven't listened to that yet. Yeah.
And he's got, you know, a serial killer in this one in a small town. He's, it's just, he's a great author.
I highly, highly recommend Sleep Tight. I have two recommendations.
I just finished and actually so did Elena Wayward. Oh, so good.
And listening to that title was so whimsical there's three female points of view and they have three different narrators for each one and all of them just have the most i say this all the time about people but i think i just listen to audio titles with narrators who have the most soothing voices and these three women i want them to read me bedtime stories every single night. So good.
And obviously, I have to recommend Elena's Butcher in the Wren and The Butcher Game. Duh.
Oh, my God. I know the author and she writes a mean book, baby.
Truly. There's also The Big Hot Book of Death.
I've heard of that one. Have you heard of that one, Spencer? Spencer, Madison? I have heard of that one.
Have you? Because that's also a great one. She's pretty good.
And they got, I love their voices too, those narrators. True.
I think the guy's annoying. But one that I love is, well, I've been, I'm like halfway through it right now, but it's The Crime of the Century, Richard Speck and the Murders That Shocked a Nation.
Oh, that's an interesting one. Dennis Albrio and William J.
Martin. Love that.
Amazing. So you guys have a bunch of titles to catch up on.
And again, you have your free trial if you head over to that link that I've said 40 times. We love you.
We're grateful for you. We love you.
We hope you keep listening. And we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that

you don't check out these titles today read and listen bye Thank you. Thank you.
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