Episode 612: The House of Flying Objects: The Popper Poltergeist

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Recently, I listened to So Thirsty, which was really good. I like how the narrator went between the two characters' voices.
That was really fun. And then I just started listening to God of the Woods.
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Hey, weirdos. I'm Alina.
And I'm Ash. And this is Morbid.
What is up, fuckers?

What is up?

So we're doing something for Halloween.

I won't say what it is.

It's a special surprise.

But part of it does involve Elena wearing a weird contact in her eye.

And I'm wearing it right now.

And she's wearing it right now.

And it's throwing me off.

It threw John way off.

John fucking hates it.

He hates it. John said, get that out of your eyeball.
He literally went, oh, no. I was sitting in the office and he was in the other room when she showed him.
And I literally just hear, oh, oh, God. No, no, no.
He hates it. It freaks him out.
I love it. I think it's great.
He knows now. He like oh no this is gonna be like you're just gonna pop

that in on like a random Tuesday and just walk downstairs aren't you? You should just like wake him up one morning wearing both of them. And just stare at him.
Yeah oh but you're afraid to put one in the other eye. I am.
I have like one eye that I had like it's just a problematic eye. Didn't some kids like scratched it when they were babies? Yeah when they were babies, one of my kids accidentally poked into my eye and then like ripped and literally tore my cornea open.
Like it wasn't like a scratch on the cornea. Like a flap was like literally the worst pain I've ever felt in my entire life.
It wasn't immediate. I know we're getting off track, but you know, it's the beginning.
It's always off track in the beginning this is just you know it's important from the eyes because it was bad like it was a bad poke and you were like oh my eye was like watering like crazy yeah and it was rough but I was able to go to sleep that night whatever and then what happened was my eye dried out in the middle of the night and I woke up and I opened my lid and my lid tore the remaining piece of my cornea up no and that was the worst pain I have ever experienced in my life and I have had three children yeah and I'm saying that confidently because I literally started to sob immediately but didn't want to wake anyone up because that's who I am. And I went downstairs and just paced around crying into pillows and contemplating whether I should run full force into a wall and knock myself out.
That's how bad that pain was. And I'm not saying that to be funny that is the reality of what happened i literally looked at a wall and i said should i run into it i'm just picturing a quiet still house it was like 4 a.m yeah and then everybody just hears like What's that? I'm just picturing the cartoon birds flying above your head.

The stars. No, I literally did.
We had to go to the ER. I remember.
And they had to give me like the numbing stuff, like the lidocaine drops. But they can only give you that once because they'll fuck up your eye.
Oh, my God. So they give you it and the relief is immediate.
And you go, oh God, this is amazing. And then they send you home and they say, well, you need to get, you know, you need to have an appointment and you need to get all this stuff done.
Didn't you have to get like a permanent or like semi-permanent contact? I had to get a contact, like a healing contact put on it because they had to like do something to it to like repair the cornea. And then so it wouldn't like reopen.
So it wouldn't keep tearing open.

Damn.

So I had to wear a hard contact for like a week and I had to wear sunglasses for a week.

I couldn't be outside in the, because it was so exposed that I couldn't be in the sun.

You could like burn your eye.

My eye story.

So the story, the end of that story is just that I don't want to put a contact in the eye.

Yeah, moral of the story, I don't blame you.

I'm just very scared of that eye.

One time, I think it was eighth grade, I laughed into a pencil.

And you heard that right.

I was lolling with my girlies in class.

Holding a pencil.

And I was holding a pencil and I literally went, oh, and like tilted my head back and then fell forward and scratched my cornea, which that in and of itself hurt so bad.

I can't even imagine tearing my cornea open.

And I was on crutches at that point because that summer I had broken my pelvis.

And then to add insult to motherfucking injury, 14 years old, eighth grade, like always the greatest time of your life.

Oh, absolutely.

Except not at all.

The worst. I had to wear an eye patch.
So you were wearing an eye patch while on crutches an eye patch and i was on crutches i did not wear the eye patch as long as they told me to because i said honey my reputation will never recover i said i'm sorry doctor i be damned i don't give a i'll go blind before i walk the halls before i damage my reputation with and crutches. Oh, my God.
Because I was on crutches for so long that people started to say I was faking. Even though, I mean, I was like, I broke my fucking pelvis.
Like, it's going to take me a while to heal here. Yeah, it's like pretty big bone.
So then adding an eye patch to that, it was not good. It's not good.
No good. You know, Ash is a lawler.
I am a lawler. She laughs with she laughs with her whole body one thing about me is i she's a lawler so i'm in it for the lulls well this one um will not make you lull i don't think but it'll make you go huh so you'll haw instead of lull this is um this is the house of flying objects that sounds kind of i know isn't that kind of beautiful i I kind of love it.
It's also known as the Popper Poltergeist. I almost was like Poltergeist.
That's silly. The Popper Poltergeist.
That makes me also lol. This one is one of those cases where there isn't an answer to this day.
They were not able to debunk. So it's a haunt.
But there is a theory. But this theory, again, is a theory, and it has not been proven, and the person who the theory is against vehemently says...
Not me. They did not cause this to happen.
All right. So I'll leave it to you at the end.
You decide. So the family was the Herman family, and this case is considered by many to be the first modern investigation into poltergeist disturbances.
It was in the 50s. Oh, shit.
And it was actually the inspiration for Steven Spielberg's 1982 and Tobey Hooper's horror film, Poltergeist. Oh.
Now, despite all the attention it got, the case, like I said, is still unex unexplained they have not been able to figure out what the fuck was going on in this house it's really hard to look at you right i know this is really fun to tell you serious too so it's like i'm serious and i have this really scary eye but it's also kind of goofy because you're just in like regular clothes yeah you know and like you have your hair extensions too so you like, I'm pretty. And my eyes scary.
So you just have like a blowout. It's like you in the haunted house.
I was just going to say that. It's you in the haunted house with a big blonde blowout.
Listen, that's who I am. And Drew's like, there's ash.
Yeah, I can always be spotted. So as far as anyone could remember, the disturbances in the Herman house started on Monday, February 3rd, 1953.
43-year-old James Herman was at work, and his wife, 38-year-old Lucille, and their children, Jimmy and Lucille, were home alone at their home in Long Island, New York. Long Island.
Long Island. I love when a woman names her daughter after herself.
I think that's a fucking power move in a half. Yeah.
Lorelai and Rory. Because guys do it all the time, but you don't hear of it with women often.
And I love that both the kids are juniors. Yes.
Oh, both of them. James and Lucille.
That was lost on me. Yeah.
See, they both did. Check it.
Good for them. Mrs.
Herman was finishing up some chores on the first floor of the house, and she suddenly heard some popping noises coming from the second floor. And when she went up to look, Lucille found that a small holy water bottle on the dresser in the main bedroom.
You know, like everyone has. I was going to say, whoa.
Just like, okay. Just their holy water that they had on their nightstand.
Its cap was unscrewed and the bottle was laying on its side with the contents all spilled. Okay.
Now, in Jimmy's bedroom, like, I'm going to call James the father and Jimmy the son so you can... Okay, differentiate.
In Jimmy's bedroom, Lucille found that the head of a ceramic doll had been broken, and several pieces of a model ship he had been working on had snapped off. And in other places in the house, Lucille discovered several other bottles where the caps appeared to have simply popped off with no explanation.
Pop off. Just popping off.
Now, although there were some minor disturbances in the house in the days after that, mostly witnessed by the children, Lucille and Jimmy, the problem didn't escalate until the morning of February 9th. That morning, a little after 10 a.m., the whole family was gathered in the dining room just eating breakfast, and they heard the popping noises again.
This time they all heard it. Lucille ran to the main bedroom and discovered that the cap on the holy water bottle again had come off and the contents was spilled on the nightstand.
And a bottle of expensive perfume that was also on her dresser had spilled. Oh, fuck that.
You mess with my perfume, you die. Yeah, I figured you were going to be pissed about that.
I'm so pissed. So she's examining these bottles, being like, what the fuck is going on here? And she heard more popping noises as this was happening.
She went in the bathroom, and a shampoo bottle and a bottle of liquid medication, their caps had popped off, and they were tipped over, and the contents was spilling everywhere. What? And again, the kids are downstairs.
Right. And it's not like these bottles are like popping, like she hears the popping noises.
Like you hear the pop sound. So it's not even like someone's unscrewing things and tipping it over.
Yeah. There's a pop happening and the cap is like flying off.
Like this doesn't sound like a child's behavioral problem. And so And so it's weird.
So in the kitchen also a bottle of cooking starch exploded. Damn.
And in the basement a bottle of paint thinner popped open and began spilling the contents. Oh no.
So like what the fuck is going on? What is going on? Yeah. So they're all clearly alarmed by what's happening.
So Lucille was like I'm calling the police. I don't know what on.
Like, is there a house like about to explode? Like what's, I would freak out too. I wouldn't know who to call.
Yeah. I mean, we call Ghostbusters.
Like, what do you do? Well, and weird things like that happen. And like, it could be like a gas leak.
Exactly. Which like, when you really think about it, you're like, clearly it's not.
But like, you would think like, I can't determine what is happening here. So like, I'm afraid my house is going to explode.
Yeah. So she called the police, and patrolman Jay Hughes was dispatched to the house.
Okay. So Hughes sat with the family in the living room to take their statement, and the officer heard popping noises coming from the bathroom.
And they all went in there to look at what happened, and the officer found that both the medicine and shampoo bottle had spilled again and had popped their caps.

I love that the ghost was like, I'm not going to hide.

Yeah, he was like, oh, hey, officer.

I'll do this in front of the cops.

Call them.

So Lucille and James Sr. explained to Hughes,

at the time of the occurrences, there were no tremors in the house

and no loud noises or disturbances of any kind that could be noticed.

Okay.

A few days later, on February 11th, the whole thing repeated itself in the house. And Lucille called the police again and was like, it's fucking happening again.
So Detective Joseph Totsi arrived at the Hermann's house very quickly and sat down to take their statement again. And he labeled this report, I love it, local investigation, broken bottles.
That's it. Put this one top of shelf, guys.
Yes, broken bottles. According to Lucille, since the last officer had been at the house a few days earlier, quote, the disturbances appeared to be increasing in both number and magnitude.
So, of course, Totsi's first thought was, I think your children are playing a prank on you. Yeah.
Maybe, you know, and so he warned the children. He said to the children, if they were in any way connected with this case and that they were causing the disturbances in some way, that is a serious matter.
Yeah, because you're taking up our time. Yeah, he was like, you have to know that, like, if police are being called and you're playing pranks, you're going to be in trouble.
Yeah, like, stop it. Cut it out.
So Jimmy and Lucille, the kids, were like, we did not do this. Like, I promise.
And Totsi said he was very convinced of their innocence. Like, they did not seem to have anything to do with this.
Later that day, and much to the surprise of James and Lucille Herman, their story made its way into the evening edition of the local papers. Oh, no, and they're probably like, please don't do that.
Oh, no. They loved it.
Oh, okay. And one reporter wrote, the revolt of the bottles today gripped the once tranquil home of James Herman.
I can't imagine listening to that. And it wrote, it probably wouldn't have seemed out of the ordinary to readers that a few bottle caps popped off unexpectedly.
And then it said, but the article was quick to point out all the bottles that flipped their lids had screw-type caps, and the caps were not bent or distorted. They just came off.
Which is weird. Which is weird.
Now, out of concern that there might be some sort of, like we said, gas leak, something weird, something dangerous that's happening, some unseen hazard in this house, James called Dr. Donald Hughes, which was an acquaintance of his, who worked at the Brookhaven National Laboratory, which was a local atomic energy lab.
So he's a very smart guy. Casual.
And he asked, like, is my family in danger? Should I get my family out of this house? What's going on? Are we all going to explode? Yeah. And Hughes told him, I cannot think of any cause for all of this.
It's certainly possible that some bottles might explode from overdevelopment of gas, but it would have nothing to do with radioactivity. Okay.
So he was like, I don't think you're in danger, but like, I can't explain to you what's happening. I don't think you're in danger, but I also don't know.
But I don't actually know. I don't rightly know.
To summarize here, I don't rightly know. So by the next day, more news outlets had picked up this story, and they were calling it the revolt of the bottles.
I'm kind of obsessed with that. I love all of this.
Like, I love that the report was called local investigation broken bottles. I love that all the articles are calling it the revolt of the bottles.
I'm into it. Like, the bottles are revolting against this family for some weird reason.
They're like, you know what? We've had enough. Yeah.
And like I said, the Hermans actually like loved it. They were enthusiastically responding to press increase.
Okay. On February 12th, Detective Totsi returned to the house in response to another complaint.
This time they said additional bottle lids were popping off and a plastic angel ornament had a wing snapped off of it.

Oh, that's sad.

Yeah.

So, Totsi took the bottles and the angel as evidence, but didn't really have anything else for them.

He was like, yeah, I don't know what's going on here, but I'll take them as evidence.

Okay.

So, as he left that afternoon, there were like a ton of reporters, photographers, camera crews that had started to gather on the front lawn of the house. course they were all interested to learn like this must be paranormal what's going on so mrs herman led the group through the house she said check all this out sure pointing out where the various disturbances had occurred and a man that nobody knew worked his way to the front of the crowd and introduced himself as, quote,

a holy man from center more riches.

I'm fucking obsessed with that.

He said, hello, I'm a holy man.

I love it.

It gets even funnier because immediately after introducing himself, the man just dropped to his knees,

dropped to his knees in the dining room and started praying loudly and excitedly for about 10 minutes straight.

Okay, so I don't really love that.

But when he was finished, he turned to Lucille Herman and said, everything's all right. You've been forgiven.
And then he just walked out of the house, got in his car, and drove the fuck away, and no one saw him again. That's the kind of energy I'm looking for, minus the prayer.
He's like, hello, I'm a holy man. And then he's just, boom, prayer, 10 minutes minutes and then he just gets up and he's like you good you've been forgiven and then he just leaves and never comes back what the fuck but this is very early on in the story so it seems like it didn't work but honestly the star of the story in my opinion just just introduce yourself and then go for it also way to like feed the rumor mill by looking directly at Lucille and being like, it's all good.
And like you've been forgiven what you did. Like, what the fuck did she do? Yeah.
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That's C-L-A-U-D-E dot com. The supposed holy man from Center Morich's was just the first of many unusual characters to appear in the lives of the Hermans to give solutions, some kind of explanation for what was going on in their house.
That same day, the family was visited by Dr. Norman Fodor, who was a New York City psychoanalyst who had been studying the phenomenon of ghosts for several decades at this point.
I don't know why I can't speak. It's hard.
According to Dr. Norman, the destruction in the Herman's house was being caused by a poltergeist, which he described as, quote, a kind of biological life force that in some admittedly unknown manner leaps out of a person's body and physically affects objects at a distance.
Okay. So Dr.
Norman explained that poltergeist activity, and this is a thing related to poltergeist activity, it's commonly associated with adolescents undergoing puberty. I did know that, yeah.
And it's speculated that the poltergeist energy was likely coming from 12-year-old Jimmy. Okay.
Now, to the Hermans and the press and the public, honestly, the explanation seemed as plausible as any at this point. They were like, sure, why not? I love that the public is down for this.
Yeah, the public was like, yeah. Because usually they ostracize the family and they're like, oh my God, they're fucking crazy.
I think in the 50s they were just like, sure. What else are we going to talk about? Why not? But they still welcomed any advice or any alternative explanations.
They were just like, sure, we'll pin that one on the board. The detectives at the 7th Precinct, for example, instructed Lucille to try an experiment.
They said fill 10 bottles with water and watch them throughout the day to see if they were affected. But by the end of the day, they were still intact.
Okay. So that's interesting.
Meanwhile, an electrician from the Long Island Lighting Company visited the house and inspected all the circuitry, top to bottom. He found no faulty wiring, no issues that could be causing disturbances.
And the technician went as far as setting up a device capable of detecting the slightest vibrations and detected nothing. That's really cool.
Other more supernatural explanations were definitely offered by the public, including those relating to the positions of, you know, the stars and the planets in the sky or something like that. Fuck yeah.
Which I'm like, I don't think that had to do with this. I don't think it had to do with this.
You know, things related to high frequency vibration, the erosion of a stream under the house causing the ground to shift in subtle undetectable ways. People were really reaching for anything they could tap into here.
Now, all the media attention surrounding what they were now referring to as the House of Flying Objects eventually extended beyond just New York. And it ended up reaching J.B.
Rine, who was the founder of Duke Lee University's parapsychology lab in Durham, North Carolina. Oh, cool.
Rine was a botanist by training, but he had also maintained a very serious interest in the paranormal for decades. He was very, very into it.
He was introduced to the concept in the 1920s, actually. Wow.
When he and his wife attended a lecture by a man you might know the name of, a world-renowned author and paranormal enthusiast, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Do we know him? Sherlock Holmes.
He wrote Sherlock Holmes. Oh, gotcha.
Do we know him? I was like, I don't actually know who that is. Arthur Conan Doyle.
Within a few years of that lecture, Ryan and a small number of research assistants started investigating, because he was very interested in what he had to say. And they started investigating the potential for extrasensory perception, ESP, by testing students at Duke University and officially starting the lab in 1930.
So he really got into it. That's really cool.
And very, like, ahead of his time. Yeah, truly.
So Ryan and his institute at Duke were dedicated to the scientific pursuit of the paranormal. So from the outset, he hoped to apply the scientific method to researching the paranormal, and he enthusiastically rooted out frauds and charlatans in the paranormal world.
He was going to call your ass out. He was going to debunk your shit.
Cool. That's his job.
Yeah. If he can't explain it, cool.
But if he can explain it, he's going to explain it. You're fucked.
He's like ghost hunters, Internet, you know? Yeah. Like taps.
Yes, yes, yes. They debunk.
So among the most notable achievements that he had was the debunking and defaming of Mina Crandon, who was a notorious psychic median who had been defrauding and exploiting people for years through her seances. I hate that.
Mina, that's mean. And he said, get fucked, Mina.
Like, that's one of his notable achievements was proving that she's a charlatan. I hate that.
I love the word charlatan. I do too.
But he had also been looking for an opportunity to begin exploring the poltergeist phenomenon because that had become a thing in the paranormal world at this time. And he told a reporter of his learning of the Herman case, we are always glad to be informed of puzzling phenomenon, either human or animal.
We don't have any record that has been adequately proved. So for the time being, Ryan asked a colleague in New York to look into the case and just kind of report back as to whether it was even worth investigating.

He was like, take a look.

Let us know if we should get involved.

In the meantime, the activity of the Herman House, I had to take a deep breath.

After COVID, I don't know if anybody else had, I'm still like, I run out of breath like very easily. That's not great.
Yeah. Well, I still have a cough, so I think it's not helping.
That's it. So in the meantime, the activity at the house escalated in frequency and intensity.
A few days after Totsi's last visit on February 13th, the family continued to experience the whole like bottle caps, you know, popping off of their bottles. Yeah.
All the contents spilling. And now the incidents were accompanied by objects flying around the room.
Okay. Hate that.
In Jimmy's bedroom, a plastic angel ornament flew from its position on the nightstand and crashed into a statue of Davy Crockett four feet away. That is the most iconic thing I've ever heard.
Period. launching itself into davy crockett like that happened she said fuck you davy and there were several literally fuck you davy crockett and there were several other instances where things were flying at the family essentially interesting that there's been a couple instances of angels yeah like breaking and holy water dive-pulling.
I'm perfume bottle in the main bedroom lost their lids the content spilled out but this time the bottles were reported to be hot to the touch okay now herman said i just gone into the room with my son and daughter and we noticed that another bottle had fallen it was hot as if lukewarm water was in it this was the first time i had noticed that like that particular thing and what i say to that is those are two conflicting ideas um how is it hot if there's lukewarm water in it thank you because when i have I have lukewarm water, it does not make the outside hot. No.
It makes it lukewarm. Correct.
So I'm confused by that. Yeah.
But if it's hot to the touch, it's like, was it like heated up somehow on the outside and like pressure and then like got pressurized? That's the thing. And that's why the bottles are popping off? And it's like.
Somebody walking around with like a lighter? Yeah. And it's like, remember, this's like remember this is the 50s so it's like did they have lighters in the 50s i don't know matches and what and i think that's what's important is like there's so many things in here where you're gonna go well it's that but then you have to be like wait it's the 50s would they even know how to do that you know you mean like there's so you got to like bring it back to there and be like wait a second right not impossible like all these things that we're gonna come through but like interesting at the very least like what you learned in science at jimmy's age i know because he's 12 remember so not he wouldn't have like super advanced yeah you shouldn't have i mean scientific knowledge yeah unless he's like really into science which he could be his dad friends with scientists.
So, yeah. It's obviously, you know.
But a few days later, the intensity of the attacks appeared to increase. Okay.
Bottles were now shattering, which is interesting. Ink was being thrown across the walls.
Damn. And more ornaments and figurines were flying from the shelves and smashing on the floor or against the wall.
To this point, it was the Hermans alone who'd experienced all this. No one else was in the house.
But on February 21st, Detective Totsi was in the house when in an adjoining room, he saw a porcelain figure shoot 10 feet across the room and smash itself against the wooden secretary, putting a sizable dent in the wood. So it had to have been launched hard.
Yeah. And he saw that nobody was in that room.
Like he said it launched itself. All he saw was this thing launch itself across the room.
And it's a porcelain figure. And it hit that wooden thing so hard that there was a sizable den.
Which is crazy. Which takes force.
Yeah, absolutely. So, Totsi documented this and returned to the precinct, but less than an hour later, he was called back to the house by Lucille, and when he got there, he found Mrs.
Herman and the children huddled together in the hall, saying she figured that would be the safest place. Oh.
Because she was every room things are flying at us like i'm afraid one of the kids is gonna get hurt yeah so according to lucille not long after detective totesie left the house it went crazy like things the ferocity and directness was something they had not experienced like that it was things were being thrown hard and they were being thrown directly at them like and that hadn't happened before before it was kind of flying across the room maybe near them well and that's kind of like what happens with poltergeist activity like it gradually exactly and in fact whatever was you know popping caps i knew you'd like that one i'm obsessed popping caps like literally popping caps off bottles and hurling objects seem to now be doing so with the kind of like aggressiveness and malevolence that implied sentience. Like it implied that this thing was angry at the Hermans themselves.
I kind of fucking love that. Like it implied that this thing is trying to hurt them.
Like I don't want it to hurt them. I don't love that.
But I just, I love a sentient being. Yeah.
Like this seems like a sentient, like it's making a choice. Well, and it's interesting that that guy looked at Lucille before dip it off into the sunset and said they forgave you.
Yeah. Maybe they didn't.
Maybe they didn't. Maybe they just told that guy.
To get him out of there. She was forgiven.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
No, it wasn't enough to alarm the family when it was a few bottles popping off here and there. They were more just confused by that.
Yeah. They weren't super scared because nothing was hurting them.
Under attack. But that's the thing.
Now it's destroying their property and hurling objects at them. And think of the sentimental things that you have that probably got destroyed.
And they're worried that this is going to hurt the kids. So the disturbance on the night of the 21st was so intense that the next day, James and Lucille thought it was best to go stay with family members nearby just to get a break.
Like they were like, we don't want to deal with the media anymore. We don't want to deal with what's going on in the house.
Yeah, it seems like very overwhelming. James Herman told a reporter, my wife has lost sleep during the last days and the kids are getting behind on their homework.
Oh no. So while they were staying with relatives, Lucille received a call from Helen Connelly, who was a 74 year old widow in Revere, Massachusetts.
Revere. Revere.
In Revere. Oh yeah, we got Helen.
Oh honey, Revere. Here comes Helen from Revere.
My sister was thinking about moving to Revere and I was was like, you're going to live in Revere? And she said, no. Not anymore.
She said, never mind. So Helen from Revere called.
And also 74-year-old Helen. I just have to do like a quick side note here.
I had a client from Revere when I still worked at the hair salon. And her name was Toni.
And she had red hair. And she was like an older lady.
and she was the coolest fucking broad I've ever met. I love that.
And I love Toni. And Toni, if somehow for some reason you're listening to this, I miss you.
I love you. You're phenomenal.
Toni from Ravia. She was the coolest.
Well, you know what? Helen also, Helen just wanted to help. So was she cool? So Helen called and she had read about the experiences in the paper.
Okay. And she wanted to offer some advice.
Okay. I'm Helen from Revia.
I got something to tell you. She said, we had the same thing in April of last year, she told them.
Of course. Tables, chairs, ashtrays, dishes, lamps, even an artificial fireplace was lifted like paper.
An artificial fireplace? An artificial fireplace was lifted like paper. Paper.
She said. Oh my God.
According to Helen, a building inspector looked over the home and determined the cause of the problem was built up gases trapped in the chimney. We had the inspector come out.
He searched around. My God.
We had an inspector Sully come out and he told us that it was just built up gases trapped in the chimney it's just gases

and when it was freed back into the house it would blow items around the house okay yeah and while they were away detective totsey was like all right cool like that sounds valid plausible like thank you helen from revere and she was like that's all i just wanted to help i think it might be gases and you fucking, do you have an artificial fireplace?

Queen.

Queen.

Queen.

So while they were away staying with family, Detective Totsi arranged for the home to have a turbine-style ventilator installed on the outside of the chimney. And that would prevent any downdrafts from entering the house that way.
Because he was like, let's debunk that. Like's get that maybe that's it maybe so it did seem a little uh unlikely that drafts were the problem in this house i don't know if drafts are causing objects to fly with such force they're denting wood yeah we're trying to debunk but yeah go for it it was just again totzi said i just want to rule out any potential explanation and in response to a request for comment from a reporter, John Dietrich, a chairman of science at the Merchant Marine Academy, refuted this gases theory.
He said, activity like that as the result of just the free movement of gases doesn't sound plausible. Okay.
The idea sounds rather fantastical to me. That's funny because my response was, that plausible.
I know. And he was like that does not sound plausible.

Now if the Hermans' temporary stay with relatives

was supposed to give them a break from

the media attention and the disruptions

it wasn't exactly successful.

At least in terms of the media attention.

In fact, them

fleeing their home in desperation really

only generated more interest in the story.

Makes sense. And it didn't

seem like the Hermans minded it like too much They weren't super put off by it. They definitely entertained the press when they needed to.
I think they just kind of kept them on their side. Yeah.
Which is smart. I was going to say, honestly.
You don't want them to turn on you. On February 24th, Dave Kahn, a reporter from the Long Island newspaper Newsday, actually moved into the Hermans' home while they were living with the family.
Wow. To cover the story from a firsthand perspective, he wanted to experience it.
That's cool. And in his first report from the house, Kahn referred to his initial night as a frightening experience.
According to him, the activity began the evening of his first night, a little after 8 p.m., as he and James Sr. were sitting in the dining room having coffee.
Out of nowhere, Khan heard a loud crash

from the living room and rushed in and found a figure had smashed against the wooden secretary.

Interestingly, Khan notes that just after he heard the crash, he jumped out of his chair and

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Rated M for Mature. Now, a short time later, after the reporter had settled back in the dining room, they heard a, quote, low rumble come from upstairs.
And when they went to investigate, they found that the dresser in Jimmy's bedroom had inexplicably tipped over. And he said, I tried when I heard the noise, like he tried to move it.
And Jimmy told his father in con, but he said, and a part of the dresser landed on my foot. I only saw it fall the last few inches.

Ouch.

So he was like in the room when it happened and was actually like very near the dresser. In fact, he said it fell on his foot.
Now, that would lead you to believe that maybe Jimmy's doing these things. Well, yeah, I'm questioning it.
Like, how can you not? There's that. Or there's the possibility, like they said, poltergeist activity can emanate from somebody in puberty going through, an adolescent going through puberty.

So maybe it's because he's around that that's why it's happening near him.

Or maybe two things can be true at once.

These things are happening, but also Jimmy's having a little bit of fun at the same time because this is a little exciting.

And I think that's the most valid explanation, I think.

So I think this is not all Jimmy.

I don't think it's all him.

Thank you. Also, Jimmy's having a little bit of fun at the same time because this is a little exciting.
And I think that's the most valid explanation, I think.

So I think this is not all Jimmy.

I don't think it's all him.

But partially.

But I think maybe, maybe.

I'm not accusing him.

No.

Allegedly.

Allegedly, maybe he had something to do with it.

Now, after the dresser fell, James Herman promptly called Detective Tootsie, who came out to the house but could not figure out what the fuck happened. He said there was something especially strange about the noises, or excuse me, Totsi didn't say this, Khan said this, the reporter.
There was something especially strange about the noises accompanying both disturbances. It was almost explosive, which is, that's interesting.
He said, and the low rumble lasted an abnormally long time, And both noises seemed to elude the immediate location. Later that night, other objects flew from their locations, including a large bookcase in Jimmy's bedroom that was seemingly pushed away from the wall by unseen hands.
Most baffling of all, at least for Khan, was an incident that occurred the next night. It was a little after 9 p.m.
and he said, as I sat alone in the corner of the living room, a 10-inch cardboard globe of the world flipped silently out from Jimmy's darkened bedroom in my direction and bounced into the opposite corner of the living room. I jumped up, ran into Jimmy's room, and snapped on the light.
The boy was sitting up in there, which he could. Okay.
Now, when he noticed all the incidents that occurred at the home, he noticed that they all had one thing in common.

The same situation with Jimmy has existed in every one of these strange occurrences since February 3rd when they started tormenting the family. Uh-huh.
He noted that in every case, Jimmy was near the affected object when it moved, and in all cases, he possessed the strength to move the object himself. Okay.
However, he did have difficulty accepting that Jimmy could have been the real cause for all the disturbances. He said there is the physical improbability of him having the speed to say, get back in bed fast enough after throwing that globe, or the strength to throw figurines with the explosive force they display, like denting the wood.
So he ended up being driven to the theory, quote-unquote, that had become the most popular and common at the time they had a poltergeist and that it might be emanating from Jimmy. Now, after following the story in the press and speaking with the Hermans and Detective Totsi, J.B.
Rine, our scientist from before, was convinced that whatever was happening in the house was at least worth investigating at this point. So in early March, Rine sent his trusted longtime assistant, J.
Gaither Pratt, to Seaford in Long Island, along with a relatively new member of his research team, William Rohl. William Rohl was a German psychologist who'd been with the Institute for like a little less than a year.
The two researchers moved into the house and started investigating. And they consulted with experts from RCA Communications who were brought in to determine whether the house was being affected by radio waves or other disturbances in the electromagnetic field.
They really tried to debunk everything here. While the RCA scientists evaluated the house, Pratt and Roll set out interviewing the members of the Herman family about, like, the beginning.
Yeah. The beginning till now.
According to James, he became convinced they had a supernatural problem on the morning of February 9th. He said he was talking to Jimmy, who was in the bathroom brushing his teeth.
And he said, I was standing in the doorway of the bathroom while Jimmy was brushing his teeth, and he said he told investigators, There's weird. He insisted that both bottles had previously been under the sink and were recently put on the table.

So he concluded the caps had become unscrewed while they were under the sink.

Oh. that both bottles had previously been under the sink and were recently put on the table.
So he concluded the caps had become unscrewed

while they were under the sink.

Okay.

He was witnessing the bottles move on their own at that time,

so he said, that's what made me think,

okay, this isn't like gases or something.

Something paranormal is happening here.

Right.

So since the phenomenon began in early February,

the activity in the house really escalated day after day.

And again, it became really aggressive

I'm not going to be offensive. So since the phenomenon began in early February, the activity in the house really escalated day after day.
And again, it became really aggressive, especially in the presence of non-family members in the house. But now that Pratt and Roll, two trained experts, were in the house, the poltergeist activity went completely quiet.
Uh-huh. The equipment set up by the RCA technicians registered no change in the electromagnetic activity in the home, didn't pick up any unusual radio waves.
So Pratt made it pretty clear going into this investigation, one of the researchers, that their objectives were very clear. It was to decide whether, one, Jimmy is deliberately causing these things to happen and cleverly concealing them because it is pretty clever how he's concealing them yeah it is two that jimmy is the agent for a poltergeist or three i'm sorry i'm thinking of jimmy just like signing a poltergeist like being an agent like an actual agent like signing him on like let's go getting him some opportunities you know we have an ad coming in for you jimmy it's time to tour let's go um so it's like jimmy from hacks there you go jimmy's the agent so he's like poltergeist it's time to tour let's take this show on the road um or in three that there's a a mixture of both yeah that he's involved somehow, but not in the way we might think.

Okay.

Now, within a few days,

Pratt and Roll had all but ruled out the involvement of James and Lucille,

the parents.

And they ruled out Lucille, the daughter.

Okay.

Jimmy, not so much.

Lucille, the daughter,

was often out of the house

or was fully asleep

when most of the incidents occurred.

She said,

baby, I'm catching up on my beauty rose.

But the two identified Jimmy as the thing connecting all the events. Okay.
Though they did draw, they stopped short of drawing any conclusions about how previously, you know, previously how he was involved. But their suspicions caused everyone in the house, parents, researchers, con the reporter, to keep an extra close eye on Jimmy.
Now, since the onset of the poltergeist activity, like we said, it was everywhere. It was in the local, regional, national papers all the time.
Readers had a really close look in on this family and the disturbances happening. And the level of awareness that this caused was, it kind of brought in like amateur sleuths, like what we would now have as internet sleuths.
Yep. Even back then in the 50s.
There's always been sleuths. But these sleuths had to write into the papers and call the police department with their shit.
And this type of engagement can be interpreted as a kind of support, which was typically accompanied by explicit support from those following the story. But when the narrative shifted towards suspicions that Jimmy might be the cause of some of these disturbances, the public sentiment about the Hermann's poltergeist, by then referred to as the Popper Poltergeist.
You are so Boston every time you say. I can't say poltergeist.
Especially when you say Popper Poltergeist. I can't say two errs.
Yeah. It's like I can get one out, say I can't say poltergeist especially when you say popper poltergeist I can't say two errs yeah it's like I can get one out but I can't get two it's the Boston and you just say stop yeah it allows one it won't allow more it says you can park the car I know I can't say it right that's funny popper poltergeist I actually don't like it that way popper poltergeist so they were less sympathetic yeah at this point I would be which also like remember this kid kid is 12, everybody.
That's true. I mean, I would just be like, wow, Jimmy, what a turd.
We were all excited about Poltergeist. He doesn't need the whole world bullying him.
Weighing him. But as public criticism of Jimmy, this 12-year-old boy, grew, James Sr.
did what any parent would do and took to the press to defend his son. Yeah.
And emphatically rejected the belief that Jimmy had anything to do with the activity in the house.

Yeah.

He said, because the scientists of this country can't come up with an answer to this,

people are trying to make a scapegoat out of a 12-year-old boy who can't fight back.

I mean, yeah.

But James didn't stop there.

Oh. He went on to say he threatened to bar anyone from his home who openly questioned Jimmy's intentional involvement in this phenomenon.

I don't come for my kid that's the thing i can understand his role as a parent being like fuck you you're not questioning my kid but at the same time you also want to figure out what's going on in your house well and it put pratt role and to a lesserahn, into like a difficult position. Yeah, because they're like, what if it is him? Because if they want to find out what's happening here, if they want to remain in the home and continue to do their work, they have to ignore the idea, the theory that Jimmy is doing it.
And that's, you really can't do that. That's not how the scientific method works.
Exactly, which is not good. So, despite the growing skepticism and near total lack of activity in the house at this point, Pratt and Roll continued the investigation.
So Pratt said, I draw no conclusion whatsoever from the fact that there was no unusual occurrences after I came because there was so much turmoil in the house at that time. He said, you know, but nevertheless, the lack of activity made it unnecessary for the researchers to stay in the house for very long while they were conducting the investigation.
Right. So they just returned to Duke and continued the research from afar.
Yeah. Because they were like, we don't need to be in the house.
We didn't see anything. Right.
Now, less than one day after Pratt and Roll left Long Island, it all began again. Huh.
A table in Jimmy's room crashed to the floor, breaking a crystal table lamp,

among other things. It's interesting now that a lot of it is happening in Jimmy's room.

Yeah. And the incident prompted another

call to Detective Tootsie,

who rushed to the house as soon as he was called.

And according to Tootsie, James

reported that at the time, his son

was, quote, flat on his back in bed with

the cover spoiled up to his chin.

Mm-hmm.

So he couldn't have possibly caused

the table to fall. That's according to the father.
Now, despite the convenient timing of the return of the activity, it does appear everyone involved remained unwilling to consider seriously whether Jimmy was causing the activity in the house. That's not great.
Roll said, and this was one of the researchers, Roll, the fraud hypothesis would be easier to accept, and I get this, the fraud hypothesis would be easier to accept if it could be supposed that the other members of the family were acting as Jimmy's accomplices, like the parents. That is to say that, you know, Pratt and Roll would be more likely to accept the idea if it was a hoax if it wasn't a child that was perpetuating this entire thing.
Pratt was equally emphatic in his rejection of the fraud theory saying, I don't believe for a moment that there is any colossal hoax behind this. And these are two like very- Well-respected.
Well-respected researchers and they don't need to be in the house anymore so they don't need to bullshit. Right, right.
Like at least saying that that they believe if there is a hoax happening he's not out of families involved and we can't seem to connect that right and the other one is saying i don't believe that there's a whole hoax here i think there's something happening now while the return of the activity was you know an exciting development for pratt and roll uh others were less enthusiastic. Like a family.
Well, and Detective Totsi, who's probably a little sick of this. Yeah.
He's like, I have actual crimes to investigate. He literally said, it's the damnedest case I've ever worked on.
I mean, it's beginning to go on forever. And it's true because for what had been started as a call about like, you know, a weird disturbance about a month earlier, the case had exploded and started attracting all this attention from all over the world and all of it was rooted directly through detective joe tootsie by march tootsie was spending a significant amount of time combing through the correspondences received by the seventh precinct on behalf of the her Like people writing in to say, this is what I think is happening.

This is what you should do.

And that's a lot of shit to come through.

And this was a lot of letters

on how to deal with the problems

with suggestions ranging from kill your house.

What does that exactly mean?

I like that one.

Kill your house, like stab it.

Kill it.

Like shoot your house down.

And another one was burn sulfur in every room.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Another one was wave a white silk hanky in every room.

Wave a white flag.

Say, you know what, Poltergeist?

I give up.

You know what, Poltergeist?

This is you.

I like that one.

I will go to house with kids.

This one's my favorite.

Buy a horse.

That's it? You want to know why? That's the tweet? Horses have mysterious powers, so just buy one. I agree that horses are mysterious as fuck.
They are pretty mysterious. It's kind of like adding a lot of expenses.
And as much as Detective Totsi would have liked to move on to more pressing matters, he was ordered to keep a close eye on this now wildly popular story. He said the brass doesn't like anything to happen around here they don't know about.
So he's like, so now I'm stuck. Here I am.
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You can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Spotify or Apple Podcasts. So by mid-March, it seemed even the poltergeist had kind of grown tired of the whole thing.
Yeah. As six days, then 10, then 20 passed in the Herman house without a single incident.
Okay. Despite the quiet in the house, enthusiasm and interest in the case definitely remained.
Members of the public were still calling, sending letters, even dropping by the house. Oh, I don't like that.
Stay out of my house. James told a reporter on March 17th, two couples were over here with Ouija boards.
Not sure what they were trying to do, but I didn't let them in. Do you think I want the whole house to fall down around our ears? He said, he has papa energy.
He's like, get the fuck out of here. Get the fuck out of here.
Get a life. So the sudden end to the activity was surprising to James and Lucille Herman.
Which is all of a sudden was done. Yeah, it was just done.
Who'd been dealing with daily destruction of their home for over a month. But Pratt explained that in his experience, such things tend to end that way.
Lucille said, he said that whatever force had been causing it just goes away. And usually they don't come back back while the hermans were certainly happy to have some peace and quiet in their home the abrupt and like unceremonious end to the situation public doesn't like that no we don't we don't like things just like a neat bow yeah we need to know what's going on because they'd been closely following the case and they wanted an explanation.
Or they wanted closure.

So a short time later, Pratt and Roll provided the family with their report, finally. Okay.
The researchers counted a total of 67 incidents. Wow.
64 in which an object moved on its own. Okay.
And three in which unexplained thumping could be heard somewhere in the house. So Roll wrote, Gaither and I spent 10 days with the family under circumstances which we felt gave us close acquaintance with all of its members.
And we were unable to accept the family hoax hypothesis as a reasonable one. Okay.
Interesting. Yeah.
The researchers concluded that after ruling out fraud and other possible explanations, the RSPK hypothesis had to be taken seriously for this case. RSPK is recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis.
It was a popular theory among those at the Duke lab for explaining the decidedly unscientific old world explanation of ghosts and poltergeists. In Roll's theory, a person, and in many cases children, can produce a discharge of psychic energy strong enough to disrupt the zero-point gravity of an object.

That's really fucking awesome.

Which is the thing that keeps it in place.

It's Matilda.

There you go.

Exactly.

Which causes it to appear as though it has flown across the room on its own.

This is more commonly observed in cases where the individual is in a highly aroused or unsettled emotional or psychological state. A.K.A.
puberty. Such as adolescents going through puberty.
Yep. Roll wrote, the poltergeist has a reputation of being elusive if not plain evasive.
This was not true in Seaford. Things sometimes happen in full view of people and when outsider visitors were present.
Yeah. So while the researchers were unable to conclusively prove a cause of the activity, they were inclined to believe it supported the theory of RSPK.
Yeah. They were satisfied that the activity was most likely unintentionally caused by Jimmy.
Okay. This seemed an adequate explanation for some people.
Made sense? I'm happy. Especially those who are eager to just like on with the stories.
Yeah, you get bored of a story after a while when you're experiencing it. But not everyone found the RSPK theory to be satisfactory.
You're never going to satisfy everyone. You never are.
As hard as you try. Nope.
In their own report on the incident, the Parapsychology Foundation of New York concluded that Jimmy was most likely the culprit everyone leave jimmy leave jimmy alone and they noted that he might have caused the disturbances by normal means if he so wish well you know what maybe he was just vibing in these streets maybe what the fuck else are you gonna do at 12 years old i don't know so you know although they were unable to prove their belief that jimmy had intentionally caused the disturbances that, the parapsychology group, was headed by former Duke parapsychology lab researcher, Carlos Osis. I really love that name.
They pointed out to the suspicious timing of the events, which this will give you a little bit of a pause. Oh, no.
They wrote, disturbances during school hours occurred only on weekends. In the evenings after 8.30 p.m., when according to Mr.
Herman,

Jimmy had gone to bed.

The phenomenon occurred at that point

either in his room or in places near his bedroom door.

Jimmy.

In the hours when the children

might definitely be assumed to be asleep,

nothing happened.

While this was their working theory,

Osis was quick to add, of course this is not an accusation, but merely one possible explanation. Yeah.
The presence of James Herman Jr., Jimmy, in all likelihood, was a necessary condition for the occurrence of the phenomenon. So they're not necessarily saying he did this, but he's got to be awake and in the house.
They're saying his presence is needed. We're not saying he did this intentionally,

but we're not not saying he did this intentionally.

We're saying it's a possibility.

While OSIS and the Parapsychology Foundation

may have kind of hedged their bets with that one,

they definitely avoided blaming Jimmy outright,

which is nice.

Yeah, that is nice.

Skeptical investigator Joe Nickel

had no problems placing the

blame where he thought it belonged.

In his review of the evidence years later,

Nickel wrote,

Taken as a whole, the evidence strongly points

to 12-year-old James Herman Jr. as

having been the deliberate cause of the Seaford

poltergeist outbreak.

The motive, means, and opportunity were his

and the case was unwittingly prolonged

by the credulousness of adults.

So Nickel points

to the efforts made by magician

Thank you. means and opportunity were his, and the case was unwittingly prolonged by the credulousness of adults.
So Nickel points to the efforts made by magician Milbourne Christopher to explain the phenomena in 1958, which included an extensive recreation of the bottle popping and other incidents that he performed for Roland Pratt. So he was like, this can be done.
But by a 12-year-old? Yeah. Possible.
Yeah. But it's just like, whoa.
You know, like that's a lot. Yeah.
It's advanced. He said, Pratt had no idea of the simplicity with which the effects were accomplished.
And Roll imagined that James's tricks would have had to have been produced by special devices, which would have been installed, operated, and removed in the presence of adult witnesses. So he was saying, like, Pratt and Roll were under the impression that whatever was happening here would have been very advanced in something that he would have had devices to do.
But not necessarily. But then Nickel was able to show him, like, some kind of, like, magician shit, like, kind of, like, sleight of hand thing.
Okay. That he was like, you really don't need that advanced stuff.
Yeah. You know, but like, did Jimmy know about this? Does a 12-year-old know how to do that? I don't know.
Could if he's into magic and shit. But it's interesting.
And like you said, like the family was connected to scientists. Exactly.
Who knows what conversations he sat in on. Yeah.
Or eavesdropped on even. And it's worth noting again, too, that the only reason Pratt and Roll really ruled out the hoax theory was that they couldn't fathom any of the adults in the house having been involved.
They really didn't believe the adults were involved in this. And they couldn't accept the fact that Jimmy would have been able to execute this entire hoax on his own.
But then Nickel's kind of showing them, like, he might have been able to. Yeah.
But he's also not proving inconclusively that he could do all of it. He's just saying, some of the stuff you're a little like iffy on.
He probably could have done that. Right.
Now, those who have investigated the case during and after the incidents, they agreed on very little. There was a lot of different theories going on.
Everyone's kind of yelling at each other. But most do appear to be of one mind when it came for the motive for the activity.
Like we said, like Pratt and Roll and a couple of other people said the psychokinesis that they were talking about, how it can happen when somebody's in like a very highly emotional or disturbed state. Yeah.
So they figured that the destruction was caused unintentionally maybe or intentionally, but they said either way, they think the motive might have been Jimmy's allegedly poor relationship with what they refer to as his demanding and generally unsupportive father. Oh, that's a bummer.
But again. I didn't expect that.
Yeah. And in the psychological evaluations of Jimmy and towards his father.
That's really sad. So that is, that can go either way.
That can go with, did he intentionally do this for attention? Was, what was that? Or was it subconsciously? Or was this some kind of strange, like. Poltergeist.
Phenomenon that happens because of his highly agitated and emotional state. Almost like Carrie.
Yeah. Yeah.
Like, could it be either? Sure. Yeah.
I could see both. Oh, that makes me so sad.
When the dad came out and said, you know, like, nobody is, like, allowed to accuse my son. I was like, yeah.
Well, and that's why, like, I don't know a lot about their relationship. So I don't want to sit here and, like, speculate that they had this awful relationship and everything.
I mean, it was the 50s. It was the 50s.
So parenting was really different. So I don't know if anybody really had, like, the ideal relationship with their father back then.
No. He did come to bat for Jimmy during this whole thing, but I don't know what their relationship was before that, and we do have a child psychologist who's saying he seems to have anger towards his father.
Yeah. So take with that, you know.
What you will. But again, we don't have all the facts of that, so.
Allegedly. Mm-hmm.
There were, of course, other theories as to the cause of the disturbances. And the most interesting and outlandish were definitely offered, interestingly, by younger readers of the papers who'd been following the story and wanted to weigh in.
Okay. One 14-year-old reader wrote in, it's the pressure in the bottles.
That's what's making them pop. I mean, okay, girly.
But then the reader went on to say, I can also tell you what isn't the cause of these events. What's not? It isn't Martians or things on other planets, as some seem to believe.
Don't blame it on the Soviet Union or any other country either. huh another reader though take 15 year old sandy she said the soviets might have done to have something to do with the events but why it's only happening in only one house well that's a great question sandy babe sandy grew up to be a conspiracy theorist so jesus christ so we must ask was it was it a poltergeist recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis the soviets or a childish prank that caused the herman household to explode for one month i guess we'll never fucking know i'm willing to bet it wasn't the soviets to this day we don't know i know it's not martians I know it's not the Soviets.
We don't know. We don't know whether it's a poltergeist, recurrent spontaneous psychokinesis, the Soviets, or a childish prank.
It could be any of those. Based off what I've heard today, I would like to think that it was poltergeisty and maybe influenced and put on a little bit longer by Jim Jim.

I could see that by Jim Jim.

Jim Jim.

Now after the media interest in the story died down,

they just kind of like the family just settled back into their lives.

Yeah.

James Sr., you know, unsuccessfully ran for public office before retiring from his job.

Okay.

Lucille got a part-time job as a school nurse after the kids moved out of the house.

Okay.

And Jimmy maintained that he had absolutely nothing to do with the activity in the house. All right.
He did not intentionally do it. All right.
Or intentionally, I should say. Yes.
He said, maybe it was my vibes, but it wasn't me. Maybe my vibes were off, but it wasn't my fault.
But it wasn't my fault. He said, I did not do that.
And according to the Hermans, they never had another experience like those in 1958.

Wow.

James told a reporter in 1987, not a thing is happening around the house now.

Everything's been peaceful and quiet every day since it stopped in 1958.

Interesting.

Jimmy graduated from college and went on to become the president of an electronics company in North Andover massachusetts jimmy yeah wow where was the house of flying objects it was in long island oh long island right of course um although the hermans themselves may have like kind of just faded back into domesticity you know bye i love which is good for them uh their story definitely lived on past past those that one year here we are um It was the subject of everything from TV talk show fodder. Because remember back then it was like all about that shit.
Oh, hell yeah. Like Ed and Lorraine were on talk shows.
There was TV movie plots. And even, again, one of the biggest ones, the main inspiration for Steven Spielberg and Tobey Hooper's 1982 horror film, Poltergeist.
Poltergeist. Poltergeist.
There's definitely, like, since then, since 1958, there's obviously been some, like, way more frightening and intense phenomenon that we can't explain. But the story of Seifert's House of Flying Objects is definitely going to always have the distinction of being really the first modern paranormal investigation in the United States.
It's really cool. And the first obsessively documented and handled by the American press.
Yeah. This is the one that really was the first one to get the attention of the American press and just take it.
It really popped off. It really popped off.
So whatever you think is what you think, and that's fine because I don't have a fucking clue, but I think the vibes are off. So I think the vibes were off.
I think we can all agree that the vibes were off. I don't think 12-year-old Jimmy meant any harm.
And I don't think he did all of it. Yeah.
I really don't. I really don't.
Intentionally. I really don't think he meant any harm if he had anything to do with it.
I don't. And it seems like the family recovered after that, and they went on to live peacefully and quietly.
So good for them. Good.
Awesome. And hopefully his relationship with his dad, if it wasn't great, I hope it got better.
Allegedly. Yeah.
Perfect. Me too.
You know? What an interesting story. A very interesting story.
I liked that one. Because it's got a little spookiness to it, but it's more just like an interesting look at like the hoax of it all and the scientific investigation of it all.
I liked that part, like the scientific investigation because they took it really seriously and they didn't get. I like when they actually like genuinely scientifically investigate versus like the ed and lorraine kind of investigations i think those are cool but like we've talked about them a lot so it was interesting to hear like a different kind of investigation like a straight up look at it using the scientific method yeah i like it like i i like that they do that because that's why i love um i i think it's ghost hunters it is is.
It's Taps, right? Yeah. I always confused Ghost Adventures, Ghost Hunters, Ghost whatever.
I'm like 99% positive that Ghost Hunters is Taps. And then Ghost Adventures is Zach Bagans.
Yes, precisely. So Ghost Hunters.
Taps, I really love. That's why I always loved that show because I just love the spooky vibes of the show.
And the approach. And it's like they're from Rhode Island.
So it's like they're— Rhode Island. But they go about it intentionally going into debunk.
And then they let things take it from there. But they don't go in being like, I think this is a ghost.
They go in being like, I think something is up here and I'm going to figure out what it is. It's like Scooby-Doo.
I like that, but different. That's a good way to go into, in my opinion, personally.
That's how you would do it. A paranormal investigation is to go in with the intention of debunking and be surprised if you're surprised.
I think a lot of paranormal happenings are related to science. Yeah.
Like in some way, shape, or form. It's all energy.
It's all energy, you know? Drink every time I say that. And you know what? One of the real stars of this is Helen Connelly from Revia, I think.
Everybody pull one out for Helen.

74-year-old Helen was just out here being like,

You know what?

You know what?

I had the same fucking thing happened to me in April.

She said it was crazy.

It was crazy.

My artificial fireplace?

Like paper.

What is an artificial fireplace?

I think it's like one of those literally fake little fireplaces.

Like a movable fireplace.

Like a, what's that fucking called?

That's what I can't say. an artificial fireplace.
I think it's like one of those like literally fake little fireplaces. Like a movable fireplace.
Like a

what's that fucking called? A space

heater? Yeah, almost like a space heater.

But I think it like looks like

a little fireplace.

Like it's got the aesthetic of a

little fireplace. But that shit

like paper. That's terrifying.

Those things are also so dangerous. Be careful with those.

Be very careful around those things. Especially as we get into the winter months.
Yes, be careful. Be careful about your space heaters.
But yeah, interesting. Helen forever.
Helen. I really liked that case.
Thanks, Dave. I hope Jimmy's doing well.
Me too. He seems to be.
He's the president of Electronics Company. I hope he's killing it.
Go, Jimmy. You know? So.
Well, I hope you guys are doing well, too. Yeah.
We also hope that you keep

listening. And we hope you keep it

with. But not so

weird that you don't say enough in your Rivera accent.

I know. Bye.
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