2025.10.16: Sleep Cycling

Diagnosed with cool guy syndrome yesterday.

So now I take Adderall.

Hey!

We're recording the podcast!

Gut up!

Good morning to you, wherever you are, because it is

for October 16th, 2025.

My name is Bernie Burns.

Sitting right over there, we are messing with his sleep cycle.

Say hi to Ben King, everybody.

It's Ben King.

All right, geez.

geezer.

Ben told me something amazing yesterday.

You told me that on a typical night in Spain.

Oh my God.

Let me see if I get this straight.

Let me see if I can get it right.

You start eating at about like 9 or 9.30 p.m.

The correct time to have dinner.

Yes.

9 o'clock at night.

Oh, it's beautiful.

I'm like, please go to bed, kids.

Finally, fall asleep so that I can fall asleep at 9 o'clock here.

Especially now that the nights are getting longer or the days are getting shorter.

This all started because you told me an insane fact, which is

the nightclubs, you don't go out to the nightclubs until 2 a.m.

That's when you go to them.

This is the most normal thing in the world to me.

I'm surprised that you are shocked by this.

I'm shocked by that.

When was the last time you went to a nightclub?

I'm trying to fall back asleep at 2 a.m.

No, I had a thing where

I was like, when I would go to LA and I was single for the first time in my life, and I was in like my late 30s, like just turning 40.

I ran into a thing.

LA is kind of a young town that the later it got, the older I got, because I ended up being the oldest guy in the club, which is kind of a thing that happens.

You don't want to be the oldest guy in the club.

Oh, I'm starting to feel that.

Well, yeah, but in Europe, I'm sure you've also always got the guy who's like the really old rich dude.

Oh, I mean, like, man, like Ibiza, it's all half the crowd is like 50, you know.

Okay, explain to me as someone who is not that hip.

What is Ibiza?

Is it like just a hedonistic isle off the coast of Spain?

Is that what it is?

Well, I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I've been there.

I wouldn't say hedonistic necessarily, although I'm sure there are pockets as in anyway.

No, basically, it's just the sort of

landing spot for all the kind of famous DJs.

And then they all have residences.

It's a bit like Vegas.

So they all have residencies.

So, you know, you'll have David Geta doing every Monday night in one place, Calvin Harris doing every Tuesday night in one place, et cetera, et cetera.

then they just have the season, it runs sort of three or four months during summer.

So it just ended, I think, last week or the week before.

Yeah, it's a good time, but it's extremely expensive.

You know, like, I think young people can't really afford to go out anymore.

I think,

yeah, I think what's happening everywhere, like where everybody gets priced out of their local thing, essentially?

A little bit.

I mean, Ibitha's definitely a special one.

I mean, like a ticket to a big club night to see like David Getter, for example.

You know who he is, right?

The get?

Yeah.

he's one of my favorite DJs.

The get,

I love him, love that.

He, why doesn't he go by the name DJ DG?

Because that would be the greatest DJ name of all time, David Getter.

DJ DJ.

I can't even say it, DJ DG.

Okay, um, but yeah, no, that will cost you like maybe 100 euros, 150 euros, a ticket for the club night.

So it's more like a mini festival, in a way.

It feels okay.

I have had a couple of people I've seen in my Instagram stories going to see, I'm assuming it's the actual Eagles, the Eagles, going to see them at the sphere in Las Vegas.

I don't know what that costs, but I can imagine it costs an exceptional amount of money.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Especially, I mean, these days, the cost of tickets is like creeping up so much.

I mean, I'm sure you saw even the, you know, last year with the Taylor Swift stuff, the sort of insane prices.

I think once you get into like four digits to see a musician, I'm like, that's not, that's insane.

Absolutely insane.

Even, you know, I get it if it's someone that you've followed your whole life and it's like their last tour, or in the case of the Eagles, their like eighth last tour or something like that.

But yeah, once you get up to four digits, but then it's also, it's like anything else.

I'm booking travel for us right now for Christmas.

And

it's easy to look at like airfare or whatever, take one thing as the main cost, but like say a Betha, for instance.

You got to fly to Ibiza.

You got to have lodging at Ibiza.

The $150 bucks for the night seems like a high price point but in the overall pool of expenses it feels like a tiny drop by the end of it well you're getting out there i mean yeah if you're coming from america then you're you're looking at high cost i mean for us but there's also some of them some of the clubs are also hotels yeah so you can you can you know bite uh

get two bites with one so you know you're gonna get a discount if you're staying in a shway for example and then you can go to the club for free so some people they get you that way um we should also clarify, you work in this industry.

Sorry, yes.

I didn't specify.

Yeah.

So I've had quite a pivot from

the video game industry, which was 19 years ago, was the first one.

And now I'm in the nightclub industry, which is very different.

Big change?

Big change.

Longer, less sleep.

Yeah, longer hours.

But yeah, we were talking about the sort of how it messes with your sleep cycle and such, where, so if you, yeah, you arrive at the club at 2 a.m., but then that, you know, you've got to get a shift in.

You've got to get your money's worth.

So you go, you could probably stay a minimum of three hours.

That takes you to five.

Really, you want to do four hours, takes you to six.

If it's like a DJ like festival, then you should go to like seven or eight.

When do you sleep?

Well, that's when I can't figure it out.

That's the fun part.

You don't.

You just like, you go to like seven or eight a.m.

In the morning.

And then I guess because you're eating dinner at nine, you're waking up at noon, right?

Yeah, I mean, so it takes me like a few days to like reset my cycle.

So I'll like i'll go home and i'll get maybe four hours of sleep and then i'll try i'll just try to like re recalibrate my body to like get back into the swing of things but um and it's also and that's also kind of like why i try not to drink alcohol now because you can imagine the that also is extremely stressful on the body when you yeah it does and that's a thing that gets harder as you get older too right because then you end up like i lose a day at this point oh 100 yeah i mean i that for probably the last 10 years it's like it would wipe out the whole of my next day we don't i don't really i'm not privy to this because we deal deal with our own time shift here being in scotland where my u.s workday doesn't start until 3 p.m because that's when everybody in texas wakes up around 9 a.m and you and i as a result of that we don't whenever we work on the days that we get together we have our meetings like at 2 p.m our time yeah which i guess would be 3 p.m your time because you're uh an hour ahead of me uh in europe or an hour whatever it is you're plus one

um

yeah so i don't know i'm not ever privy to it so i think for a lot of people that would be a super appealing lifestyle.

Just be out until like seven in the morning, go to sleep, and then wake up at noon if you can.

Yeah, I mean, like my meetings, like the earliest UK meeting I'd have is like 10 a.m., like back when I was employed by other people.

And then, so for me in Barcelona, it'd be 11 a.m.

So, you know, I'd get to wake up at 10.55 a.m.

and just go straight onto the Zoom.

And it was, it was the life.

And I think it's appealing to a lot of people, but there's probably a lot of people like me who do the math on it.

It's like, that's like five hours of sleep, Maybe, maybe.

When do you catch up or do you just not?

Yeah, no, I don't like it.

It takes a while to get back in.

But you're just shaving off the end of your life, basically.

But also, I mean,

when I was a wee kid,

I was insane.

I was pulling all-nighters all the time.

Like, not just like running through to the next day.

Well, I'd just be like, I'd be coding all night because I'd get like an idea and I'd just be too excited about it.

So I'd just keep going.

I get it.

And I even tried to do that the other day.

I was like, I'm going to go through the next day.

I'm going to do it.

I just crashed out.

I just couldn't manage it.

Yeah, your body tells you what you can and can't do.

And

the gate closes all of a sudden.

And the knees are starting to go, you know, so it's, I'm starting to feel the wear of time a little bit.

When I was working my telecom job for basically the first two seasons of Red versus Blue, I would write the show, the episode on Monday.

We would record audio on Tuesday, edit the audio on Wednesday.

If we were lucky, we could start recording some of the video layer on Wednesday.

But really, that was Thursday.

We would record all the video on Thursday, and then I would stay up all night long,

every single week on Thursday, editing the video, getting it ready, rendering it, and putting it out for Friday.

And I didn't sleep on a Thursday night for about two years, and that felt totally normal to me.

I look back at it now and I wonder, how the fuck did I do that?

It's just easy to go like, you know what, this one's coming out Saturday.

That would be the approach now.

Like, it's just, I don't know how I got through that stuff.

I got to say as well, I do feel bad because I feel like I contributed a little bit to your pain because, uh, because like Rooster, Red versus Blue would be, uh, you know, at least on Mondays or whatever, right?

And I was like, we should make this feel like an event.

We should have a specific time that we release it and we make it feel like we have a countdown on the website.

It would be great.

And then what would happen is the countdown would hit.

I love a countdown, by the way.

We should have more countdowns.

Goes to zero.

website crashes because everyone is flooding at the exact same time.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

You know, and I have probably revealed this before, but the early sponsorship model was a kind of a double benefit because we had people who then subscribe to it.

They would get it on Friday.

And then we would put it out for the people on the forums on the weekend, usually like Saturday night or Sunday morning.

And then a Monday would be on the front page for everybody, you know, in the general public who didn't have a registered account.

That spaced out that server crunch as well.

Like we could, we could pace out our bandwidth of people downloading it.

And that really helped a ton because if you had those huge peaks It would put you into a new tier for the class of service because we were hosting all of this stuff ourselves all this stuff is antiquated now.

You just put it on YouTube and you're done with it for most people.

Yeah, but we're back in that world now of hosting all that stuff ourselves.

So we're thinking about all that stuff again.

Time is a flat circle.

Is that the phrase?

I would like to think of it as the world is finally coming back around.

After 20 years, we were finally right to have our own website and not go to places like YouTube and other places like that.

Well, I mean, even that, I mean, you know, red versus blue, I mean, roosterteeth.com was like an early S VOD service before that even was an acronym.

Yeah.

And now that's come, you know, lots of people are doing that themselves.

They're saying, well, we want to have our own destination and brand it ourselves and own that relationship with

the fans.

And yeah, it's interesting.

You're very, very on the wall with that.

Do you know that like when by 2012, 2013 and there, we just had our website, right?

And we had our subscribers that subscribed to RoosterTeeth.com.

We didn't call it an S-VOD and we were classified with all these S-VODs, which are subscription video on demand services.

And somebody who came in and said, you have an S VOD here, and we go, yeah, but we don't really call it that.

They go, but no, no, but look at this.

And then they had like the top 10 S VODs in America.

And then they put us with our user count and revenue in there.

And they go, you guys are like top 10 S VODs in America.

And you don't realize that because you don't call it that.

And that was kind of an interesting moment for us when they did that.

But now I think that stuff has all come back around.

People are,

like, I would never refer to Rooster Teeth 2025 I would never refer to that as an SVOD never would yeah but it's it is funny when you look back like the old websites from you know circa 20 2008 910 whatever it was that was actually a very complex wide website like it was a full s VOD well we added video streaming I remember that was like a big deal it used to be you the kids these days don't know you would download a Windows media file Yep.

And you or a

QuickTime MP4 and you just download the file.

So then we added the streaming on the website.

That was a new thing.

And we had all the sponsor windowing, and we had all the comments and all that stuff.

And then on the community side of things, we had the forums, we had groups, we had private messaging, we had awards, we had milestones.

So like if you mod points.

We had a whole

economy system on there.

We had the cock bar.

We had tournaments.

That was a joke.

The cock bar was a joke, wasn't it?

To make fun of Dig, wasn't it?

Yes, but I'm saying it's still a complex piece of software, Bernie.

Have some respect.

We had,

I can't even explain what that was.

I can't go into that.

You know, and we had all this.

And then on the achievement underside, we ordered like a games database.

You could track what games you were playing.

You could find people to play games with you.

You know, I was just going on and on, like so much stuff that we did.

It's funny, too, because our working relationship spans such a long period of time that I remember, God, you were probably 13 and I was 30, and we're sitting in the the office and we're arguing and we were arguing about podcasting in particular.

You said we should put red versus blue on Apple podcasts or on the podcast.

Make it a podcast

out there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I said, Ben, this is a product that we license from Microsoft to make this show.

I don't know how to navigate it where I put this on Apple's platform.

I don't even know how to have that discussion.

I don't want to put this stuff on Apple's destination.

And you said, podcasting is not an Apple thing.

And I goes, it has pod in the name, iPod.

It's where it comes from.

And we were arguing about that.

And it's so funny because you look forward now, like 15 years in time, you are absolutely right.

It has nothing.

People don't associate podcasting with Apple.

Yeah.

Well, I don't know.

I mean, like we, I mean, that was nice thing because it was, you know, six people at the company.

There was a, there was a flat hierarchy.

And we would, you know, we just had ideas and we just like, well, what if we try this?

Like, like you'd ping me, hey, ping, what if we, you know, could we add this website?

I'm like, yeah, yeah, all right.

We would just do it.

And if it, if it was crap, we'd just get rid of it.

But I'm really conscious of that now, too, when I talk to people because we just throw around ideas.

And after a while, like throwing around ideas, people would, would now, as things have progressed and it became more of a company, sometimes those sounded more like directives, like we got to put a whole team of people on this to figure out how to do this.

No, I'm just kind of spitballing.

I learned not to spitball like that.

Well, to be fair, though, I do think, like, even when I was, even as a, you know, 16-year-old, wherever I was, I do feel like I told you no quite a few times.

Oh, my favorite comment from you of all time is I had this idea for something and I pitched it to you.

And you go, yeah, but it's a bit shit, isn't it?

Oh, that sounds like me.

What was the idea?

Oh, I don't know.

It was something to do with the website, but I always remember it's like, I like that we have an environment where a 16-year-old can tell us like in a conference to the head of the company.

It's like, yeah, but that idea is kind of shitty, though, isn't it?

Right, to be fair.

Yeah, but to be fair, I mean, that is product management, right?

Like, it is also, thinking about not just, you know, just doing everything necessarily, but like what makes a cohesive product, like what is actually going to be helpful and then you get into you know obviously obviously once I left I started doing more traditional software company roles and you know you're looking at like metrics KPIs and you know you're trying to improve the business I mean you know we were watching we had our own analytics and you know I was still trying to figure out Basically how can we make the website more engaging for people, more

fun destination for people.

So that's where a lot of the quirky stuff like the cockpit comes in.

But yeah, I mean, that's,

you know, you want to, and that's, I think what we have done pretty well with the current gen, I was going to say the final generation of the website, you know, it might get rewritten next year.

But, you know, we've tried to distill all those things.

So it's a, it's smaller in scope.

Like it doesn't have a million features.

But we've tried to kind of condense everything down in sort of a streamlined experience where also like one thing that was kind of key for me was having like having respect for that chronology, like having the ability to have the 18-year-old content live side by side with today.

And like you can have, like even just yesterday, we were looking up your

old posts, and it was an 18-year-old journal post from you, and I'm the first comment on it.

Isn't that funny?

What are the odds on that?

Isn't that funny?

And Roadblock, who is posting on a regular basis, I think I have a morning somewhere shout queued up from him.

He's in there talking shit to me about the way it was a Call of Duty bet that I had with Jeff Ramsey to promote the podcast.

And later we did another bet to promote the launch of Achievement Hunter.

And

Roadblock was talking shit about the way that I was playing the game.

And then I immediately started abusing him about his sports team.

I'm like, that's literally nothing has changed in those relationships over the course of 20 years.

It's so funny.

I look back at this.

One of the things I love to do is I love to circle back on things and tell people like when they were right.

You know, I don't typically tell people like, I was right and you were wrong, but I love to tell people, it's like, yeah, we didn't listen to you and you were right about this thing.

Because I think that's funny because that's an experience we all have.

We all make these calls like podcasting or something like that.

One of my favorite calls of all time was we had a guy who worked with us in Hollywood, an agent at an agency.

And we were going to make a decision about going a different direction.

Had to have a tough call with him and say, look, we're not going to go with you on this thing.

We're going to go this other direction because we think it's a better fit.

And we made the call ourselves and talked to him.

And he's like, I get it.

You know, I just, you know, I think it's going to be better to do it this way.

And we go head this direction.

I go, yeah, but we.

Our plan is to go this way.

And he goes, get it and understand.

Totally didn't work.

We went that the other way.

Completely didn't work.

I called him back like nine months after that.

And he goes, hey, Bernie, what's going on?

I go, hey, I'm calling to make that phone call where, you know, we didn't go your direction.

I just want to let you know that it didn't work out and you're right.

And he goes, hey, do you mind if I put you on hold?

I want to bring some people into the office.

He goes, I want to, he goes, I want to sit down for this.

He goes, he goes, I'd never get this phone call.

Oh, that's cute.

And I love stuff like that because it's like, it's, you have to make decisions all the time.

And even like, you know, when the kid at the end of the conference table goes, yeah, your idea is a bit shit, though.

You need that stuff because you need to be challenged to make sure that if you want to head in a direction on something, you need to have your vision for it

checked every now and then, right?

Because if everyone just starts nodding along with you, you know, or if you don't revisit why you're on this path, that almost always goes the wrong way at that point.

So it's good to have people who like challenge you on stuff.

I always feel that way.

But I think it is a balance, right?

Because you can very, especially in the software industry, you see companies that go so

even Google at one point was 100% data driven.

Like they would do A-B tests of 100 different shades of blue on a link to see what would perform better.

And I think there is a balance that they got better at.

And in general, companies are better at you do need to have a vision.

Like you need a leader who like has a, can see what they want to do.

And you still want to incorporate data.

You want to

do user research.

You want to talk to customers.

You want to figure out, you want to look at the usage numbers.

Like, are people using this?

Are people dropping off?

Et cetera.

But yeah, you do need to have an idea like a hypothesis in your head that's like this is what we want to do differently like no one else is doing this.

You know, we could this could be our kind of thing and

And yeah, and having the data kind of to support that and I think probably the epitome of like the headstrong visionary is probably Steve Jobs at least

yeah yeah yeah and Mark Zuckerberg for example oh Mark Zuckerberg I don't know I guess I don't know too much about the guy I'm looking forward to the I guess they've he had he's had the social network but that seems more like a fictional work.

But even like the fast spender Steve Jobs biopic, where Wozniak is played by Seth Rogen, they have like screaming arguments with each other, like

Woz telling him he's wrong.

And then you can even see like YouTube clips where they'd have a company meeting and some engineer would get up and tell Steve Jobs he's a fucking jackass.

Right.

Yeah.

Essentially.

Or he was.

Yeah, to be fair.

Right, to be fair, he was.

But then he has a moment on stage where he has to confront that and he's got to talk through it.

And then it becomes, you can see the strength of his vision in those moments of challenge there's like i think the one a good example is like when he's saying the mac has to say hello and they're like it's not that serious like and they're like but he's like no that didn't i will cancel the whole thing if it doesn't say hello you know my favorite i don't the name of the google guys i can't think of them off the top of my head but they were putting google on the iphone at lunch and he called sergei is that sergey brin is one of the yeah he called one of the guys and uh he called him at like three in the morning he's like yeah steve what's up what's going on what's happening what happened he goes i'm looking at this it's the middle of the night the O in Google, the yellow's wrong.

It's the wrong yellow.

And the guy was like, what are we talking about?

It's three in the morning.

He woke him up to talk about yellow.

Oh, I'd so do that.

That sounds so fun.

Particular hue of yellow.

That kind of thing is fascinating.

It can be exhausting for the people around them, but it's, you know, from a distance, that's like really compelling stuff to read about.

Actually, reminds me.

I actually had that once when I worked to the BBC.

I noticed that the BBC logo was wrong.

And I was like, I'm sure this is wrong somehow.

And I looked at it and I did a comparison and it was one pixel too tall one pixel too tall i had that with and i was like annoying people i was like messaging this other team your logo's wrong

i did this with uh just recently with the roostie logo with the designer and i said hey

when we put like when you had the cropped logo the like the word mark just rooster teeth i go look the this letter and i can't remember what it is off the top of my head it doesn't reach the top of it like everything else And then he linked me all these articles about design philosophy and how you have to make some letters a little bit smaller than optical.

It's an old sizing.

It's an optical thing, right?

Because otherwise it'll look too big.

Right.

Because you only notice it because it's cropped specifically to the form factor of the logo at the moment.

But he like, and it was cool to learn about that because I never knew about that kind of thing.

I'll post that.

We'll post a very close-up of the letters that I'm talking about as the thumbnail.

I'll ask Ashley to do that for me.

Oh, I think I said the same thing to you, didn't I?

I was like, oh.

But we've got a thing right now on the website, which I'll call out, which is, have you noticed the letter S in our font that we're using?

The capital S.

Capital S.

It just looks.

This is how nice I am as a boss these days.

I didn't call you about this.

I've dealt with it.

Well, now I'm excited to see what you think.

That S looks bizarre.

It looks like it's

almost like it's offset down or something like that.

The capital S?

Are you sure?

Yeah, look in the word bonus.

That's where I keep seeing it, bonus on the website.

So go to like the morning somewhere feed, and there's like on every Saturday, there'll be a bonus thing.

Last Saturday, it was a new RTAA.

But yeah.

But we were excited too because going back to your Spain thing, we just read about a universal basic income thing, essentially, that has come about in the country of Ireland now.

They've introduced basic income essentially here for artists.

Amazing.

Yeah.

What we determined it was like 1,200 euros a month or something like that.

That was like dollars was the

converted to dollars.

So that would be probably like

call it a thousand euros at that point in time.

But it was interesting because it's specifically for artists, but that's kind of a moving target.

How do you qualify to become an artist?

So if you live in Ireland, you should check out this program because it would be cool to have a basic income for arts.

And it was things like traditional, like even opera was in there.

Yeah.

Painting.

There's quite a few things.

I mean, I try to think, I don't think I've seen any other country do that.

I mean, there's been, you know, I've seen a couple like trials of UBI in a

bunch of places, obviously.

But yeah, I think this is the first time I've seen it actually be made permanent, although it is for one sector, right?

So it's just for artists.

But I mean, you know, that is obviously,

I've I've always wondered, I mean, you know, especially living in like a city like Dublin, which is so expensive, how people afford possibly to live there.

If you're, if you know, if you're a budding musician or, or an artist or something like that, it's, yeah, it's crazy.

Is Dublin very expensive?

Oh, extremely expensive.

Is it really?

Okay.

It's basically as expensive as London.

You're kidding me.

Really?

Yeah, 100%.

Because I put London in the category of like Hong Kong.

I would go Hong Kong, London, New York, Sydney was in there.

New York was what started this whole conversation because you were thinking about potentially relocating again, potentially to New York, but it's they don't stay open late enough for you.

I thought that was so funny.

Well, I mean, not relocate, but I just, if, um, you know, when my company expands to America, inevitably, during my march to take over the world, um, then yeah, I was trying to, I'll have to pick a state, have to pick a city to open it.

And New York, New York is a good one for nightlife, to be honest.

I think Spotify is headquartered there, actually.

It's the U.S.

base.

Swedish company, right?

Spotify.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Very, very, uh, I think probably the most famous Swedish tech company.

Depends on your age, you know.

For younger people, it would be Mo Yang, you know, was based in Stockholm.

Okay.

You know, Minecraft, the product.

But yeah, Spotify, I would say, is a platform to do that.

Spotify is crazy because I remember using it the first day it became available.

Like I would have been, again, like maybe 13 or something.

It must be like 20 years at this point.

And I've used it every day of my life.

You have always been more tied into music than me.

That's always been a deficit in my life is an appreciation.

But I have called you classical and I've taught you a lot of things.

I've taught you a lot about One Direction.

You have.

You have.

I know about Dave Getter now.

You know about Dave Getter.

And I'm making music as well.

So, you know, maybe

I'll send you over some stuff you can critique.

If I sound distracted over here, it's because I've been on my phone planning my trip to Abiza now that I know all the prices for the best.

Yeah, we'll go on a bender in universe.

It'll be great.

So what separates a good DJ from a bad DJ?

Oh, my God.

Well, it's funny you say that, actually.

DG, as we'd call him,

he actually said recently he doesn't see himself as a DJ now.

Okay.

He sees himself as a performer.

So, you know, so you see, I'm sure you've seen like clips where, you know, you've got the crowd watching and like 95% of them have their phone up.

Yeah.

Right.

And it's like the dude's just DJ.

But he says, well, now basically people just come to watch me, but they're not there for the actual listening to the mixing of the music or anything like that.

They just want to see David Getter.

They want to, you know, hear the big hits.

And he says it's more like a concert/slash, you know,

I'm a showman sort of a thing, which I thought was really kind of interesting.

And I guess true.

Like, I would agree with that.

There are, but like most DJs,

you know,

it also depends very heavily on the genre, right?

So you've got, I mean, I'm not into the techno.

And you have the oomph, oomph, oomch, give me some lyrics.

Okay.

I want to sing along, you know.

Okay.

So I'd go more, I'd like prefer more of the sort of house.

I do like a lot of that sort of 90s stuff.

I like a little bit of throwback to that.

And yeah, just what makes a good one?

I guess

there's the technical elements, obviously.

So you need to be able to

choose your music and mix them together and have all that going.

But I think really it's just about

reading the crowd.

It's a really weird one because it's an art form in itself.

They call it reading the crowd.

And you have to kind of sense what the crowd's into and what they're not into.

So that's very hard.

well i uh i'm just here for one thing and one thing only and that's the drop i recently

started following i started following i can't find the name of it here in my following list but on instagram it's just an account that posts the best like dj transitions and that's it that's it it's like i'm such a philistine it's like that's i'm more than happy to have that and i can skip my heading out to the club at 2 a.m to start my evening because i can just watch that account but you know i mean there has been a quite a big rise lately in sort of daytime stuff, you know, particularly for the older crowd who don't want to be out so late.

They have daytime raves now.

Is there a Brunch DJ session?

Funny you say that.

It's literally called Brunch Electronic.

Get the fuck out of here.

And I go to it all the time in Barcelona, yeah.

It's a daytime day festival.

As long as there's a discount and I can remember to take my medicine.

I'll take you to a Brunch Electronic next time you come to Barcelona.

We'll see.

We'll see Black Coffee.

It'll be so fun.

Okay, let me do a little bit of housekeeping here.

First of all, I want to say thank you to our sponsors for today.

I want want to thank Matthew Link and Seth Jones for making this podcast possible.

Thank you very much.

I also want to say that Ashley is going to be back tomorrow, and she's going to be back.

She is busy spending time with her new Xbox handheld that Microsoft sent to her.

So she will be back to talk to you all about the Microsoft Xbox handheld.

She's going to be having a full review of that and telling you what you should think about that.

So I will be back with Ashley to talk to you tomorrow.

Ben, thank you for joining us.

Thank you very much for having me.

I hope you all will be here as well.

Bye.