Chiefs Steve Spagnuolo on Building an Elite Defense, Bribing Andy Reid & Battling Brady | EP 143

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Do you remember the pass that I threw against you?

Wait a minute now.

That was against the Giants?

Did Landon pick it off?

Oh, yeah.

Well, I think I more so just threw it right to him than he did.

It was the most impressive 80-yard torpedo of an interception.

Coach Reed knows not to put me in that situation ever again.

I appreciate you doing that that day, though, Travis.

the funniest part is alex smith comes running over to me and i'm just like i can't even look coach read in the face he's like don't worry about it it was like a punt i was like it was second down

it was second down

Welcome back to New Heights, a wondering show produced by Wave Sports and Entertainment.

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I'm Travis Kelsey.

This is my big brother, Jason Kelsey, out of Cleveland Heights.

Ohio.

All right, man.

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Jason, tell the people what we have for them this week.

We got another great episode for you guys.

Got a little merch update for you guys.

And we're going to get to a guest you guys have all been asking for that we've been asking for that we're excited to have on.

That's Steve Spagnola.

That's right, defensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs is on right now.

You're going to want to see this one.

Spags.

But first, before we bring in Spags, we're going to get a little bit of that new news.

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Jake, can you step back and give us a little spin?

Did we get a little branded?

I mean, are you going to do it or not?

Be part of the damn show, Jake.

There's nothing on the other side of the shirt, Buy M.

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Jordan's usually out of town.

All right.

Let's get to our convo with Chiefs defensive coordinator Steve Spagnola.

Spags.

Joining us today from Wittensville, Massachusetts.

He's been a football coach for over 40 years, had nearly two dozen coaching roles in three countries.

How about that?

Nine states and the District of Columbia.

A four-time Super Bowl champion, the only NFL coordinator to win a Super Bowl with two different franchises.

Tom Brady has called him the bane of my existence.

And he is now entering his seventh year with the Chiefs as the most successful defensive coordinator in franchise history please welcome steve spagh know thanks

you guys are the best i'll tell you what i think i i paid tom brady a lot of money to see that

you know he i don't think he worried about anybody to be honest with you well hey coach thank you so much for joining with us though man i love it appreciate you taking the time in the offseason i know things are starting to get riled up and uh and everybody's starting to get excited you got the rookies coming in in a few weeks or maybe even this weekend coming up, huh?

Coming up, yeah, about four days.

We'll be Saturday, Sunday, Monday.

We'll be cranking.

You already know, and we'll get it rocking and rolling on Tuesday, man.

I'm pumped.

Yeah.

Is rookie minicamp as crazy for the coaches as it is for the players?

It's crazy in that, well, you know, I mean, you got a bunch of guys in here that it's hard to get the scheme to them all at once.

But I will say this.

What I really like about it, and I think Andy would tell you the same thing.

And Jason, you could appreciate this.

Like, Like, it's been, now it's been, however long it's been, Trab, since we had the last game.

And so even the coaches get out of, you know, we've got to get tuned back up too.

And I think the rookie mini-camp kind of gets us back in the groove.

You know, the oil up your teaching technique, oil up the words, right?

Put something new in.

And it's kind of a little bit of a trial run, Trab, before you guys come in on Tuesday and then we...

Hit the ground running.

We kind of get going.

I've always, yeah, I've always liked it.

That's awesome.

Yeah, it really is good.

Well, we just got some new pieces.

I know you're excited to work with, revamp the

offensive and defensive lines.

And you got to, how about that corner we got, huh?

Seven picks?

A little ball.

You know, we can never have enough corners.

All right.

You know that.

You can never have enough corners.

Oh, yeah.

In this day and age, you can have never enough.

So we

drafted those three defensive guys on

Saturday, right?

Yeah.

And so Sunday when we're coming in here, Jason,

Clark Hunt, Mr.

Hunt, and some of the other guys around, they said, Boy, you got you got plenty of guys

last night.

Hey, hey, Trav, you know what I said to him?

I said, you know, you know, when you're a kid and you get eight presents under the tree and you're opening them up, after you open the eighth one, what are you looking for?

One or more.

That's what I said.

I said, everybody got three, but I'm looking for more.

You know, we're getting not having enough good defensive players.

That's awesome, man.

You already know.

Well, we're pumped to get into the building, man.

Where do we even start with this career, big guy?

I mean, you've been with the Chiefs since 2019, but 2019.

That was honestly surprising to read because it feels like you just got there.

But, I mean, seventh year, you've had so much success there.

I don't know.

Yeah, how's it been being with the Kansas City Chiefs, coach?

I owe that all to Andy.

I mean, I've sat so, you know, was the interim head coach of the Giants in that end of the 2017 year when you guys won, Jason, and decided to take the year off.

I thought it was the good time to do that.

And when you do that, guys, listen, you just don't know whether the next opportunity is going to come.

But thank God, you know, Coach Reed and I are really close, and he had enough confidence that he was, you know, he said, hey, come on here, let's roll.

And it's been nothing but a huge blessing since.

I mean, look, when you can be around the guys we're around, Jason, you know, you know, most of them.

It's not just the Pactets and the Travs, but all these guys we have on defense, right, Travis, that are just good character.

Guys, And just being in the building makes it all worthwhile.

Now, look at winning helps.

We all know that.

We all enjoy this profession when you're winning.

But the way Coach Reid has built this thing with the guys that he's built it with, to me, that makes coming to work a joy every day.

It really does.

And I'll tell you what, Coach,

the first day in OTAs, when I saw this new defense and this new, our new DC, and we had guys like Frank Clark and Tyron matthew i mean we i mean it was a completely different look on defense from from especially in the offseason

and there was a completely different energy camaraderie and i think just the way you you like you said coach reed does it a certain way you do it a certain way as well where you bring everybody together and really work as uh like you bring every everybody together to work to together to like find one goal and it's been so cool to see how the defense has gone from the beginning of my career to where it is now.

It's so amazing how well they communicate and they all know what each other is doing.

You know, Trav, you're hitting on something, and I appreciate you saying that because I respect, I mean, you guys know football.

So when you see something and say something like that,

that means a lot to me.

But I will tell you this, and I don't know if you guys, I think you would agree, Jason.

You just got done talking about Jeff Stoutland.

Our assistant coaches, now I'm not talking about the coordinator, I'm talking about the other guys.

I don't think get nearly enough credit

for what you're just talking about travis like when you start talking about guys that communicate and how it kind of gels together that doesn't happen if you don't have a you know a d line coach in the d line room doing it a linebacker and not everybody being on the same page and you you take the egos and you throw them out of the room and we've got guys that do that i've been really really fortunate that way trav you know oh yeah And I'll tell you what, because we've been fortunate enough to go as long as we do, our staff has kind of stayed pretty much intact because by the time we get done, you know, a lot of those jobs are gone.

But we got a lot of guys on the defensive and offensive staff that deserve to be coordinators.

And I think that's as important as anything myself.

I'm with you.

Coach, what do you think has been the biggest thing that has allowed you to continue to have so much success?

Like, listen, I played against you when you were in New York, and some of the things you did as a coordinator would give us so many fits from the blitzes and the different looks and the multiplicity of things you'd have to be prepared for.

But in Kansas City, it feels like it's gone to another level.

Like you've, and I'm not saying this just because I'm on here with you right now, and I've told this to people.

The job you and your staff and everybody and the players have done in Kansas City the past two or three years on defense.

And everybody wants to talk about Travis Kelsey and Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.

But you, yeah, we all do.

We all do.

But what you guys have done over there has been absolutely remarkable.

And it was absolutely remarkable all season long this past year.

Is it anything that different from what you've done before?

How have you continued to evolve with the game to make it so dominant?

It's just been remarkable to watch.

I appreciate you saying that, Jason.

The easy answer to that is players.

And I mean that because if you don't have that,

there are a...

I'm not even willing

to say that most coaches that make their way to the NFL got a lot of ideas, are very creative.

But you can only do so much with the guys you have if they're able to do it.

Now, I've said this before.

I started this, saying this this two, three years ago, and it's still true now.

Travis knows this because he knows the guys on the other side of the ball on defense that this is the

highest percentage of cerebral players in one in one room, in the defensive room, that I've ever had.

And when you have that, then you can do the things that you're talking about, Jason, because it's hard to do it when you don't do it up here.

And do you rate that at a premium to run your system in particular?

Because, I mean, listen, you got these four or three defenses that are playing cover three.

How much do you really got to know?

No, that's true.

You guys have so many different packages, different fronts and alignments.

And anyway, sorry.

That is, and I'll tell you what, to Brett Veach's credit and all the personnel people, and Andy included, I mean, I value what I call football get it.

Yeah.

Listen, you don't have to be a 4.0 student in college.

I mean, I don't ask about GPAs, right?

Trav wouldn't be able to play defense if we were asking about GPAs.

But football, get it.

You guys know what I'm talking about.

They get the game of football.

And

the more guys you can get in your room, especially on defense.

And Trav, you know, the guy in the middle that we have, Nick Bolton.

I already knew it had to.

Yeah.

You got to have that guy in the middle.

I mean, the entire room.

legitimately, like him and Trank, and then you add the safeties.

And even somebody

that's an outside piece that you can move around like Trent, I mean, his understanding of the game and his understanding of offenses.

And at this level, those guys are at that level.

Leo Chanel is the same way.

Oh, man.

I don't think there's a, if you're going to be a multiple defense, that guy in the middle has to be that.

Like, here's where I've been really lucky.

So I've got Nick now.

Anthony Hitchens was like that, Trap.

Yeah, when I first got here.

When I was in New York, I had Antonio Pierce.

Antonio Pierce became a head coach in the season.

I mean, Jeremiah Trotter was really good.

Kelvin Shepard is now the defensive coordinator of the Detroit Lions.

He was a mic linebacker for me in New York.

So if you've got those kind of guys right in the middle, it's like the center and the quarterback chasing on offense, right?

I mean, all right now.

I mean, if you don't have that guy, you can't do all these things.

It reminds me of what Philly went through this year.

We haven't had a great off-ball linebacker in a long time, like a game-changing guy.

And what Zach Bond brought to the defense, you could just, it was so apparent how much better it made all three levels in playing in sync.

And it feels like you got to connect, connect in it.

Whenever we watch Nick on tape, it was just so apparent how much of everything he was helping orchestrate and get lined up and just a tremendous amount of respect for that guy.

I bet if you talk to all the other guys, I mean, he makes the other 10 better.

Like he's telling the D-line what to do, and he's signaling back here.

And listen, when in doubt, when I, when in doubt, I tell him, do whatever Nick says.

Whatever Nick tells you to do, just do it.

It might not be exactly the way we put it.

But at least you'll be sound.

That's exactly right.

Everybody will be doing the same thing.

But we got a big, a lot of trust in Nick.

Good, good, good.

We just had the draft.

Do you want to talk about any of these guys in particular?

What do you think of this D-tackle from Tennessee?

What's your strengths, Omar?

I'll tell you what.

You know who he's a little bit like, Travis?

It's Turk.

Oh, Turk Wharton.

Nice.

Yeah.

A little bit like Turk.

Yeah, we lost Turk to the Carolina Panthers, one of my favorite teammates of all times from St.

Louis.

Yeah, I love her.

But this young guy, Jason, is a movement guy.

It'd be really good.

The defensive end, Galetti, that we got, I think

he could play anywhere.

And both these guys are real smart.

The corner, Noel Williams, the same way.

And then we got a linebacker, I think, is going to be really good.

But all these guys are, I feel like, will fit in the rooms they're going into.

I think they will.

be kind of the mold that we just got done talking about.

They have football, get it.

And again, you know, give Brett Veitsch and his crew a lot of credit because they come around.

What's great, we collaborate better here than anywhere I've ever been.

I'm talking about personnel and coaching.

And I think that is one of the keys to the success we've had.

Coach, you just said you look forward to all the players when they're getting back around, not just the veterans, but these rookies when they're going to come in.

Is there anything right away that you look at and that you love to see out of like a young play?

Like, what's that attribute that you're like, man, this is the guy I want on the team?

This particular camp i'll be keeping my eyes on those guys that pick it up the quickest now we're we actually listen uh some of these guys are coming in here they're going to be swimming

but you but you can you can weed out the ones right away that can't and we purposely put probably too much install in jason we probably do sure but but we do it on purpose to see who can handle it and so the first thing i'll look at is guys that can get it mentally and then the next thing will be because we're talking about uh guys that have have come in trying to get a job the guys that can play more than one position like if you're a guy that's a nickel safety or a nickel corner if you're a guy that that that is a defensive end that can kick inside on third down you know that's and linebackers that can play all positions so i i kind of keep my eye on those two things the football get it and the guys that are a little bit versatile yeah that versatility running especially your system always gave us fits offensively because it's like is this guy a dn am i counting this guy as a down lineman or a linebacker is leo Chanel responsible by the offensive line or the running back?

Who am I giving him to?

Because I don't want to give him to the running back, but I might have to because the safety's over here.

And go ahead, sorry.

Hey, hey, Jason, what so what?

What would happen?

You're all line coaching the league, right?

Yeah, what would happen if we came out of the locker room before the game and everybody just switched jurisdictions?

Oh, my gosh.

And Nick had Leo's shirt on.

And that would mess up.

Leo had some.

Because you're working off of numbers all the way.

You're always blowing off a numbers.

You got to roll a deck.

You're like, okay, 42 and 50,

52 and 54 are down.

Yeah, we consider them this.

We consider them that.

Especially when it comes to those situational downs where the packages are so much different than the base personnel.

Oh, yeah.

Hey, Trav, I want to do that someday.

Maybe at halftime.

Just do it at practice.

Just do it at practice one time.

You'll get fine on the NFL.

Just eat it.

Just to see what happens.

There's definitely a fine.

There's definitely a fine.

So for everyone listening who doesn't understand this, the way protections work offensively, a lot of it is based on personnel and matchups.

And what coach does so well and what these versatile guys are so great at providing is they're a mismatch for a running back, but then they can also drop in coverage and be reliable to the point that if you put offensive linemen on them, now all of a sudden coach is getting numbers away from them in like a blitz package.

So it always gave us fits.

It gave us fits when you were in New York, and it definitely gave us fits when you were with Kansas City.

Well, that's good.

That's good to know.

Spaggs is the ultimate chess player, baby.

The ultimate chess player.

He's going to be mad at me.

He's going to be like,

we were just watching film this morning.

I won't tell you what team it was, but I don't know why this happened, but two snaps in a row, this offensive team put the running back on Chris Jones.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'd like to wait a minute.

How is this the way that we need?

We need to shut down more often.

We need to shut down more often chris is looking at his chops yeah exactly exactly let's go to your relationship with coach we you talked about he's a big reason you're there how long have you known big red yeah a good that's a good one guys so i go all the way back so the connection was

i'm gonna try to get the year for you it had to be

uh it was late 80s let's say 88 89.

oh man the late 80s were those were good days those were good years yeah

you weren't even born yet

i snuck in there, coach.

Don't cheer me.

Don't cheat in there.

It was October of 89, but I snuck in there.

So you're hitting like seven decades already, right?

Andy took a job at the University of Texas El Paso.

Okay.

With a head coach by the name of Bob Stull, who was here, the head coach of Missouri here for a little while.

And a friend of mine that I had worked with at the University of Massachusetts got on that same staff.

So Andy and Steve Telander, who was my friend, were on.

And I would go visit this friend, Steve T.

Lander.

And it was just, when I was there, I was coaching, I think I was coaching at the University of Connecticut at the time.

And you'd go, listen, in college football, you'd go visit other staffs all the time, share information.

That doesn't happen in the NFL.

That's the one thing you lose when you get to this level because nobody's sharing ideas, right?

Nobody's telling you what they're doing.

They're always keeping it up.

But so that's where I first met Andy, and then he went from there to Missouri.

I was still coaching in college somewhere.

But we always kind of we just kind of had a connection, loved football.

He was over on offense.

I was on defense, but I enjoyed talking with him about that.

And then eventually he got the job in, you know, he's Green Bay, gets a job in Philadelphia in 99.

And at the time, I was coaching in NFL Europe.

That was one of my

overseas deals.

And because of the connection I had had with

Andy asked me to be a part of his staff, which was great.

That's awesome.

I owe him, I mean, mean, I'm not in the NFL if it's not for Andy Reid.

Shout out the big red.

He doesn't have three rings without you either, big guy.

Well, that was a pretty good group effort, Travis.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

We all had a piece of it.

Yeah, exactly.

That's cool, though.

I didn't know it went all the way back to El Paso, man.

How about it?

All the way back to El Paso, Texas.

Yeah.

Remember playing in a Andy wasn't a golfer, but I think he came to the golf event.

And I just remember it was a heck of a time.

And that's where you get, listen, and players, coaches, it's a fraternity, right?

And you get around as

many of these people as you can.

And usually down the road, it's a contact you made a long time ago that gets you your big step.

That's what happened to me.

I know you said there's not a lot of,

you know, coaching philosophies and techniques and things shared in the NFL, but I'd imagine you being around one of the greatest offensive minds in the history of the NFL has shaped how you prepare and game plan.

Like, I don't know, what has that been like learning from the big guy?

Awesome.

I mean, listen,

they, Travis and his crew,

we were talking about our side of the ball.

I tell you what, the headaches we got to go through in OTA.

The one headache, though, Travis, we don't have to go through is we don't have to worry about defending the run.

There we go.

Yeah, every call we make in OTA is a trading campaign to stop the pass.

It could be second and one.

We're going to go quarters.

It's always special situations.

And yeah, we like to have the ball in Pat Bowman's hands.

Maybe just a little bit.

It's probably pretty smart.

Yeah, getting back to

your point, Jason.

I mean, Andy, listen, the great thing about Andy is he, you guys have seen how he has changed over the years.

I mean, when we were defending him in 1999 and 2000, when I was just an assistant coach,

it was

really different.

We had Dunovan McNabb and, you know, his boots, and it was, well, you know, it was two backs and, you know, flow pass and thing.

And now, you know, Andy's got people all over the place so he's evolved with the game as good as anybody

and give him tools like you know 87 and 15 and the rest of them and Andy's gonna find a way to score a lot of points I mean my the the offense from my rookie year in 13 to now is night and day different it is night and day different I look at some of the I'll have fun when we're in training camp and I'll just peek at a few training camp clips from 2013 just to see how far I've come or how far I'm i'm going back i'll tell you what yeah exactly

lining up at fullback for you know jamal charles and uh and uh nile davis back in the back in the day was uh it's a pretty funny sight to see

trying to meet derek johnson in the in the b gap it's uh we don't do that we don't do that that much anymore yeah sure

Shermanator is no longer there.

Yeah, exactly.

You don't have him there.

You know, Jason, why?

It was because I was thinking about it today.

The year you came out was the lockout year.

It was.

Yeah, I took a visit.

I visited you when you were in St.

Louis as the head of the business.

When I was in St.

Louis.

But I always thought that that...

Now, you would have been in college, right, Trav?

Still?

You would have been in Cincinnati.

At that time.

I would have thought that would have been one of the...

toughest things to do as a rookie coming in that year.

No offseason, boom, not in the training camp, right?

I mean, you talk about a challenge.

It was odd.

I got the playbook, believe it or not, Coach, two days before training camp started because they had just released.

We couldn't give anything out.

Especially for the late around picks.

For some reason, there was something that happened where if you were a first-day pick or a second-day pick, they like let you come to the facility or they gave you the book.

But there was one day.

That's what it was.

One day.

That's what it was.

We drafted Sam Bradford in that draft, and

he was able to come to the office for one day.

Yep, and then that was it.

And

they locked everybody out again.

It was nuts.

It was nuts.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I remember showing up, and I got into a really fortunate situation because Howard Mudd wanted a more athletic center.

So I had an opportunity, but

it was swimming.

It was swimming for sure.

And we were running, like in Cincinnati, we never had run these two-back plays.

And we didn't do a lot of two-back offense.

That wasn't a staple of what we were doing.

But like, is that right?

Fox 2 run and Fox 3.

And I'm like, what are all these?

I don't know what this is.

Seven-man protection.

What's that?

I've never run seven man.

So it was, it was a learning curve for sure, but it was fun.

That's funny when you say that.

So it it really the college football has all of that has kind of made its way now into the NFL, right?

Oh, yeah.

100%.

That's kind of how it's usually usually goes the other way, but it kind of went that way on the open, you know, on the no-huddles and all the.

I think it was around

14 or 15 maybe that we we brought in, I believe it was the head coach in Nevada because he was running that air raid offense.

Chris Alt, was it Chris Ault?

Yes.

So we were bringing it, we were bringing in Coates, and

he was kind of like implementing some of the stuff that he was doing, knowing that Alex Smith that we had at quarterback had ran that spread offense in college under Urban Meyer at Utah.

It's himself.

So

it's sort of made its way in.

And then all of a sudden, these RPOs come in and

Chip Kelly

over in Philly actually brought a lot of those RPOs and

spreading the teams out.

Nick Foles throwing seven touchdowns a game over there in Philly.

It was a fun year.

So, Jason, you know, and Travis, you probably know, when I first went to Philadelphia in 1999, I worked for a defensive coordinator by the name of Jim Johnson, who is legendary in Philadelphia, right, Jason?

Oh, yeah, yes.

Yeah, you guys know that.

So, I can remember, it was probably early 2000s because we're talking about how this football changed.

And you know how, Trav, on Saturday nights, when we have our snack, that the college games are on.

Yeah, and we're always watching the college games.

And I can remember sitting there with Jim in one of those years and watching a college game, and they were running option football.

And Jim going, this is in 2000 now, right?

I'm sure glad we don't have to worry about all that option shit.

Really?

I want to be dealing with all that.

And so then, lo and behold, you know, 10 years later, 12, 15 years later, and God bless him, we lost Jim and he wasn't coaching then.

But now it is all in this league, and we all got to worry about it.

It makes it challenging.

Yeah, and the quarterbacks are much more dual.

All of them can run and move to a certain extent.

And what is, do you think it's reverting back a little bit, though?

This air-raid offense spread stuff.

Now you're seeing, you know, the, what San Fran and the Shanahan offenses are doing so well.

Detroit, Philadelphia, obviously, has been running the ball.

They're still doing the zone reads, but they're finding ways to implement some of these smash mouth concepts that have kind of fallen out of favor.

You know, it's funny.

I keep, you know, I'm listening like you guys in the offseason to all the talk.

And,

you know, will it convert completely back to the way it was?

I don't think so.

I think the throwing the football is still so exciting in this league.

Defending, throwing the ball is still exciting.

Yeah, but I do think you will see more teams.

Maybe the percentages of running will go up a little bit.

But not everybody's going to have a Saquon Barkley.

You know, I mean, everybody's looking at that right now.

But those guys are telling us.

I guess running backs really are important.

Yeah, I guess so, right?

They're an offensive line, right?

They're an offensive line.

Listen,

offensive coaches are really smart in this league, so they'll go with anything that's working.

I think there'll be a little bit more of a turn toward.

I don't think anybody will get away from

winning games ultimately with throwing the ball.

Throwing the ball.

And especially when, let's face it, most of the time, the great teams are close games, and close games come down so often.

And this is why Pat has been so successful in you guys in Kansas City.

You guys, I mean, how many close games did you guys close out last year that were one score?

Just like unbelievable, whether it's a block kick or

unbelievable.

All 15 of them.

Literally,

that's that's the truth.

I mean, some of them you can't even explain, Travis.

I mean, how did that happen?

Who knows?

I said,

I know the hell Leo got that block in Denver.

So crazy.

Called it too.

Yeah, right.

Do you think some of that

conversion back is also what defenses have done?

Like defensive now, and you guys have done a lot of this, playing a little bit more like shell like two safeties back still aggressive though and teams are trying to figure that out that that quarter shift and what's the best way to attack it well and and what you're on to then jason is because we're so past defense oriented that you know running the ball and softening the you know getting you out of that and trying to throw the ball is still going to be the game that's going to happen and i you know listen you guys remember way back when when uh i mean when the 4-3 remember when the university of miami had all those stuff warren sapp was there and had it and they just sat in that shell took care of the pass with those guys back there but they didn't have to worry about having an extra gap on offense because warren sapp and the rest of the people fork all those guys are caught

they were just too gapping it

guys

so when you when you when you i mean listen it's and again i go back it comes back to players when you've got players like that you can play virtually anything right and and be successful now when you're not quite as stout up there and and and uh you're you're trying to defend the pass and you guess wrong and they run the football and it's a 12, 15 yard run and then you got to change it up, that's where the game gets a little bit tough.

I think you'll see more of that though, Jason.

I agree with what you're saying.

I really do.

Yeah.

All right.

Before we move on from Coach Reid, you got any like favorite Andy Reid stories from back in the day or any gold?

You can tell us they keep it kicking, but you know, I had to at least ask.

Well, I will tell you this, Travis, and you'll be able to appreciate this.

So now

I get the job in 99 there two years I about about the third year Travis is when I met Maria my wife and you've you've met Maria yes and you know you know she's legendary Jason for the food that she makes but but here's what here's so now I'm I'm gonna sit I think I was like quality control or maybe I become the safety coach or something but I'm trying to climb the ladder right so the one way to climb the ladder is to keep the head coach you know you keep stay on his good side so

on friday on fridays when maria would make the whether it was banana pudding or the sweet potato pie or whatever, I'd always sneak one of those bad boys.

Maybe two or three of them.

These are

a whole separate package.

Just if you need some fuel to get you through these.

Hey, Travis, maybe that's why I got the chance to come here.

There we go.

There we go.

It had nothing to do with my coaching ability.

It had to do with the banana pudding.

That is a fucking golden Andy Reed story.

I don't have any good dirt stories or anything.

No, no, that was golden in itself, right there.

Yeah, he's, I love Andy, you know that.

He's the best.

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How did it all start for you in the coaching world?

How did you know you wanted to get into it?

Was it always a passion of yours?

Yeah, I tell you what, Trav, I can go back to...

I remember being in high school.

Now, listen, you guys know I didn't grow to be big like you dudes.

So I didn't

be, we all wanted to be pro football players.

I grew up outside of Boston, so it was either that or hockey.

Bobby Horn, so Bobby Horn.

So I decided that I did want to coach.

And

I went to Springfield College in Western Massachusetts.

It was a big phys ed school, had pumped out a lot of coaches for that reason.

And listen, when I went to college, my my goal was to go to college, play Division II football, I get a phys ed degree, come back to my high school, teach phys ed for the rest of my life, and coach high school football.

That was the pretty good game.

That was why I wrote that.

That was a gig.

That's what I was going to do.

And then along the way, I got there and that school had a lot of guys that had graduated and were coaching in college.

And so I got to meet those guys along the way.

One of them was at Wake Forest, and this guy was at Boston College.

And so that kind of sparked my interest.

And so I kind of set my sights on coaching in college football, which I did for 15 years.

And, you know, in the back of your mind, you know, look at your, you're hoping that maybe someday you get a break and coach in the NFL.

But, you know, then you were looking at a, you know, short white dude from New England.

Who the hell is going to hire that guy to coach football?

You know, but luckily, we go back to the story of the connection with Andy that I was able to get a break.

But it's all, Trav, it's always, my mother was a teacher for 35, 40 years.

So that, I think that bug of teaching and helping other people and being able to see somebody go from being non-skilled or, you know, slightly skilled to getting really good because you've helped them.

That's kind of always been there.

And that's what I enjoy.

That's what I really enjoy about it.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

That's awesome.

What did your mom teach?

She was actually a special needs teacher.

So

that takes a little bit of patience.

Yeah, you know.

English and special needs that she had and

mostly the junior high and elementary school levels.

Gotcha.

That's awesome, man.

Shout out to Mama Spaggs.

Absolutely.

Yeah, why not?

Right.

Yeah, got to.

Got to.

She pointed me in the right direction.

Yeah.

We all needed that.

Everybody needs that.

Well, you won your first Super Bowl in 2007 as a DC with the Giants against the undefeated New England Patriots.

How crazy crazy was that to go into a game with

the Monster's that they had over there on that offensive side, as well as the fact that they were going into it as unbeaten throughout the season?

Listen, Trav, when I, before that game, and we had it, you know, we had a good group of dudes.

You know, you know, Michael and

Stray Hannah.

And

you guys know all those guys.

Stray is the best, man.

But I will tell you this, when we started game planning for that game, because they were a juggernaut with the guys that had that most points scored ever in the NFL, in NFL, I thought if we could hold them under 30 points, that that would have,

and Jason, that's not usually what you say, right, right, right, right.

But I just felt like that, if we didn't do that, we had no chance, at least, and I thought our offense would score a little bit, and it kind of went a different way.

It became kind of a defensive battle, but they were that good, and Tom was so deadly.

You know how he is.

You're talking about cerebral.

You do one thing, you know exactly where to go with it.

And we had, there were two or three wrinkles.

And in every game, we always do that.

We change the two or three.

They don't always work, Jason.

You know, you, you figure out a way to pick it up.

But the two or three key things that we had actually worked in that game and made, made a huge, huge difference.

The guys executed them perfect in critical situations.

And I think that kind of built that a little the best thing that happened that year.

And really, and I think Mike Strahan and the guys would tell you this trav and jason that the key to having the confidence to beat them was when we played them in game 16.

yeah they beat us in the in the final game they went 16 and oh we just kind of it was a slug fest and we were right in there and i guys i remember justin tuck walking off the field i vividly remember this uh we were in the end zone at giant stadium and him saying coach

If we get to play them again, we can get these guys.

Like he just walking away, he felt that way that day.

Now, we didn't know that, you know, fast forward a month later, we were going to be in there playing the undefeated Patriots, but that our guys had that kind of confidence going into it.

And when you got the leaders breathing and speaking confidence like that, man, it just oozes into everybody else's like veins.

Yeah, we just got on a roll.

Justin Tuck is...

He's one of those guys.

Do you guys know Justin?

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

He's the real deal, man.

Notre Dame guy, smart.

You talk about another cerebral football.

So this is what Justin.

So Justin was

right now, Trav.

I usually use Leo for this and sometimes Drew Tranquil, but he's our joke.

Justin Tuck was our Joker.

You know, Jason, the guy that

he had a D-lineman number on, so you counted him.

He's never going to be counted as a lineman.

We're not going to have it.

Or as a D-lineman.

So Thursday is the big third down day, right, Trav?

Jason, I'm sure you've done the same thing.

And so we'd would put these blitzes in.

He'd be the joker and I'd put them in all different spots.

He would mess everything up on Thursday.

And he'd say to me, Coach, I'll be good.

Just I'll be good.

And ultimately, by the time Sunday rolled around, he was.

He had it.

Yeah, he had it.

He was awesome.

But he was good.

He doesn't breed the most confidence from the coach in the middle of the day.

No,

when you walk away and you go, I got it.

Should we take this out?

Should we take that out?

Yeah.

He was the best.

Those guys, that crew was

a special crew, too.

Really was.

If you don't mind me asking, what were the wrinkles that you did to throw Tom or the New England offense off?

Just give us one.

Just give us one by one.

Okay.

The one we did was, and you guys will know this, so you know I like to run overload precious.

Yes.

So porto aside.

Free safety wheel or nickel mic or whatever.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and typically the

linebacker away from the overload, Jason, would kind of shove up.

And then he, yeah, and he's pulling out.

And the minute he pulls out, everybody turns over that way.

So that particular game, I said, look, the first time we run this,

Antonio was supposed to come.

I said, Antonio, you don't go as the Mike linebacker.

And Kavika Mitchell did what we call a coffee house.

He made it look like he was, but he ended up going.

And by the time he turned and went, nobody picked him up and we got a sack out of it.

The old coffee house.

Yeah, exactly.

And we did it early enough, I think, where once that happened, and it's something you would practice for two weeks, right?

I think the guys go holy shit that worked.

That's great.

We're on a roll, right?

Let's do the next thing.

Let's do the next one.

So that helped that it worked on that particular day.

They don't always work, like I say, but that was one of them.

And just blitzing that guy once makes us be honest with it.

Because we were going to it a lot of times.

I'm like, hey, every time this guy mugs up in the A gap, he bails and they blitz.

And with the free safeties down over here, they're running the four to a side over here.

So you're like trying to play that where it's like, hey, number, like this guy's right up on the the ball.

If he comes, the back better be pretty stout picking this guy up.

Otherwise, it's not going to be good.

So you just do that once, and then all of a sudden, the whole game plan, now you're chasing that one right from the get-go because you're like, hey, nobody.

It might happen again.

Yeah, it's like, hey, nobody got it.

I don't think we ran it again in the game.

I think it was just that one shot.

Yeah.

But sometimes that's all it takes.

And then it's overhead.

Now we got to honor that guy.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

That's right.

Yep.

Yep.

I love it.

Coach, I got to ask you about your time

in Frankfurt.

Dude, I think it is such a unique opportunity.

And it was cool to go.

It had to be cool to go back to the city and actually

play there last year.

You were the defensive coordinator for the Frankfurt Galaxy in Germany.

And what did you take away from your time in Europe before coming back to coach in the NFL?

Yeah, listen, first of all, because it was from there that Andy called me.

I was going to go back the next year in 99, back to Frankfurt.

Really?

How about this?

How about You had that much fun?

You'd love those schnitzels that much, huh?

Well, here's the thing.

I actually, at the time, I think I was living in Toledo, Ohio.

I was in Ohio.

You guys know that.

Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah.

I took a German class to try to learn a little bit more German because I thought I was going back.

I learned nothing.

Duncan Son.

Duncan Sun and Venus Schnitzel.

That was another thing.

What else do you need?

What else do you need?

You only learn the language if you're over there and you're speaking it.

But listen,

I spent two years in NFL Europe.

One year in Barcelona, Spain.

That was in 92 or 93.

And then in 98 in Frankfurt, Germany.

And those were two of the

funnest, most enjoyable coaching experience.

And one of the reasons, not only being over in Europe and seeing all that, that's kind of cool.

You guys have been there, and everybody should go travel abroad because

I think it's great.

I love it.

Yeah.

But the other thing was, remember this now: the guys that we were coaching were all guys that might have got cut from an NFL team, right, that were looking for another shot.

And so they were so, it was the most motivated, in-tune, embraced group of guys you could have because they were always, they were all trying to get somewhere else.

It wasn't like they were chasing money.

They were chasing another opportunity of playing football.

So I valued that.

And to go back, Trav, with you guys in,

it was two years ago.

To Frankfurt.

And it was at that same stadium.

You know, the last year I was there, we played in the World Bowl.

We got beat by the

Rhine Fire, but it was in that stadium.

It looked completely different when we went back, Travis, because it was different when I was there.

But it was a great experience.

And some of the people were still there that did remember that I coached there.

That was really cool.

Not as cool.

I wish it was still.

Listen, Jason, I'm telling you what, you talk about developing all linemen.

Yeah.

That league was great for it.

You know, who was just over there?

It's not NFL Europe anymore, but we just had Joe Thomas on.

He was coaching over in Munich last year, and he said

yeah, he loved it.

And in particular, the O-line guys, and you're taking these guys that are new to the game, and it's a little bit different than what it was with NFL Europe, but it's he still loved it.

I went over when I first got here, Trav, in 2019, I went over to Italy to do a camp with some coaches from the Chicago Bears.

It was a tie-in with one of the one of the coaches for the Bears was an Italian guy coaching that league.

When you go over there and you work with

European people that are into American football, you have the most captive audience.

They're dedicated.

Oh, they're into it and they love it.

And listen, the level is completely different, but I just think it's great.

I wish the NFL Europe would make its way back.

But anybody that's ever gone over there to do that, just like Joe Thomas said, have always come away loving it.

Yeah.

Let me ask you this.

Do you think we'll ever see a division over there?

There's been talk of it.

Maybe one team in London, one team in Germany, one in Milan, one in Dublin.

It'd be fun.

First of all, I would love that.

Number one.

But the thing would be, all right, so here's the hard part.

You can go to,

let's use the Dolphins.

You go to Miami.

You're a free agent, right, Travis?

You go to the Miami Dolphins for...

X number of dollars.

Or you can go to London for X number of dollars, which is basically half because London's pretty expensive.

I mean, you got all those those dynamics that kind of make it tough, but I sure wish there would.

I think it would be terrific.

It makes the make the game global, right?

Yeah.

I think it would be great.

And it's starting to feel like

from what Joe was telling me, from what you're telling me in Germany, like, I think the global demand for it is higher than it's ever been.

And like, when we go over to London, it's insane.

I mean, it feels like an all-star game because there's people in jerseys from all over the place.

But

it's pretty cool.

But I don't know.

The only time those trips are really fun, though, Trav, is when you win.

When you don't win,

you got to answer it.

No, you're going to ride back.

It's like

you don't ever want to do that again.

You know, you got to win.

That's how it always works.

Been fortunate.

We've won all our international games.

We did.

We've been fortunate.

Let's get to our last segment and get you out of here, Coach.

We appreciate your time, but we got one last segment called We Gotta Ask, but you don't got to answer.

We always end the combos.

You can either answer it or you can tell us to kick rocks.

Yeah, I can plead not guilty or.

There you go.

Plead the fifth.

Plead the fifth.

I can plead the fifth, right?

I can plead the fifth, yeah.

All right.

What was your initial reaction to Justin Reed's In Spags We Trust t-shirt?

Oh, I couldn't.

I was trying to burn those so quick, Travis.

I couldn't.

I mean, listen, humbling, so humbling.

I love Justin.

He's the best.

But every time I had to shake my head, that's just hard for me to see.

Yeah,

I was trying to burn them up.

No, man, you know I had to get one of those things.

I know you're the best.

Those things were selling like hot cakes, coach.

So cool.

I don't know about that.

So you don't have one yourself?

You didn't just sneak one for old memory?

I can honestly say I don't have one.

That's too funny.

I can look at my face.

I can look in the mirror and see that same.

I love it.

So you're talking about Maria being a tremendous cook earlier.

She's known to cook an Italian dinner for the players that have the best hit every win, and it's called the Cram Award.

Is this real?

That's real.

When did this start?

That is real.

And who gave her that idea?

Yeah, so we've always had an award.

It's been called Different Things, but two years ago, because it's been two seasons now, my wife loves animals, and so she gets on these videos, and she found

Tony Breaker is a comedian.

He does these voiceovers, Jason, of

like just imagine two

Rams, you know, they're doing this, right?

But he's talking through it.

They're funny.

They're funny as shit.

And I heard that.

And we always play.

Yeah, we always play a clip of it before we give the award out.

So Maria is the one that said, you ought to do this.

You ought to make the award.

This Cram Award.

She's the one.

Now, and then she offered to, you know, I said, well, we got to give him something.

So that's where the pasta came in.

But they love, listen, they wait for Saturday mornings, Trav, to see who's got it.

Chris Jones said to me one time, listen, I don't want a game ball.

I can give a game ball to somebody else.

I just want to win the crew once I get that.

Yeah, Maria's pasta.

That's Maria's pasta.

It's so good.

Is it always red?

Like, what's Maria working with usually?

She'll change it up?

Yeah, Nick's not a red sauce guy.

So the cheeky or the white sauce.

You name it, Jason.

She can make it.

I guarantee you.

That's a name that she brings back.

You want to put your order in?

I was about to say, I got to get involved on this, Dad.

You're going to jump in on that bad boy.

I mean, we've done it everywhere we've been.

And when we were in New York and we would do it for the defense there,

the old lineman, Jason, found a way.

They got a way on Friday.

I heard later on that for some reason, all the defensive guys weren't getting the banana poop.

Yeah, look at that.

What's going on?

It was Chris Snee.

It was Snee and it was O'Hara or

Sean O'Arrow.

All those guys were forget.

Deal.

Deal was big pies, man.

He was a big pie.

Hey, you got to feed the old lineman, right, Trav?

It doesn't matter what come on, offensive.

You got to take care of the old linemen.

Just like you knew to take the pies to the head coach.

The offensive lineman knows where the pies are coming from.

They know where the offenses.

They sniff it out.

They true.

I got to ask you this, Coach.

What was your first impression of Travis Kelsey?

Oh, God.

Well, the first impression would have been having to defend him when he was playing.

And that was like, what a headache.

We're going to go against this guy.

Now, Trav, I think the one game when I was in New York, I think I got fortunate because one of your wide-outs didn't play.

And we were able, Jason, we put like three guys on Travis Kelsey.

At least doubled.

Might have been tripled, but

Landon Collins plus the linebacker pleasant.

Exactly.

Yeah.

All over the place.

We weren't going to let 87 beat us.

And then when I got to meet him here, I mean, listen, I'm not saying this because you're sitting here, Chad, but you're one of the purest, down-to-earth mega stars that anybody could ever meet.

And I just think that's a great quality for both of you guys to be who you are and what you are in this world and to just be regular guys.

I mean, look at, I'm sitting here with the Kelsey brothers.

That means the most color for me, coach.

Here's what I would say is: don't you got, don't ever change.

Yeah.

Because you guys are the real deals.

And I know you won't.

You got to coach.

Do you remember

the pass that I threw against you back in 2000?

That was against the Giants?

Man, I remember it like it was yesterday, and now I see it more than ever.

Ever

coached.

Did Landon pick it off?

Oh, yeah.

Well, I think I more so just threw it right to him than he did.

He threw it right to him.

It was the most impressive 80-yard torpedo of an interception, but it was.

Well, he was going back to his Cincinnati days.

That's exactly why I was in that.

And Wildcat, yeah.

Exactly why I got moved to the tight end.

Hey, Travis, have you been?

Have you thrown?

Well, you have thrown since, but I mean, that season,

the boss go back to the wild.

Well, you got to understand.

I went gung-ho, and I just

decided to, I had one read, and it was throw it to Tyreek.

And Tyreek looked like he was double covered, so I looked at the backside

back across.

Yeah, the field where coach told me do not

have a regression, Travis.

You have one guy and then you run the football.

And I was just like, man, I'll tell you what, I don't know.

I'm just going to assess the defense.

And as soon as we got into a funky formation and the linebacker at the time, I forget the linebacker at the time, but he immediately checked to cover two to just kind of.

It would have been Kevin.

I think it was Kelvin Shepard.

Yes.

Yep.

And it was just kind of just to make sure that they were prepared and ready for anything because we were in a weird formation.

And sure enough, I get the ball.

I see the backside safety kind of close on Tyreek to the point where it kind of felt like I was hoping that would happen.

Yeah.

Just so I could go and do my own thing.

He wanted to go a little rogue and show everybody he knew what was going on.

Coach Reid knows not to put me in that situation ever again.

I appreciate you doing that, Death Day.

The funniest part is Alex Smith comes running over to me, and I'm just like, I can't even look Coach Reed in the face.

He's like, don't worry about it.

It was like a punt.

I was like, it was second down.

It was like a punt.

It was second down.

No positivity, Alex.

Yeah.

No, you guys got us that day.

Let me ask you this.

Other thing that Travis is known for is laterals out of nowhere.

Do you think that's an underutilized offensive tool?

Is that difficult for defenses to defend?

No question.

But I'm not sure I'd want anybody other than Travis doing it because

that's a tricky deal.

when I see it, I get when you're doing it, Travis.

I go, Yeah,

everybody's hearts out for a second.

That's all good.

That's all good.

But no,

that's a for Nike.

I watch these guys do it in practice all the time.

And I think, Travis, because

the other guys now know that you're capable of that, they're aware, they get around.

I've watched that kind of develop while we've been here.

It wasn't always like that, but then once they know that when 87 gets the ball in his hands, he can do something special with it.

And that, that was the one that, the one, what was the one Trav

we had that we were offside on?

Oh, Baltimore.

Oh, not Baltimore, Buffalo.

Buffalo.

It was Buffalo.

It was Buffalo, I think, two years ago.

That was sweet.

That was

sweet.

Sweet.

My God, I felt that it was man-to-man coverage.

And

I just, I don't know what was, that was a bet.

Now that was the best throw of my NFL career right there.

I threw that one for 30 yards across the field.

That was awesome, man.

I figured then we were we were in.

We were good.

That was that was beautiful.

It's like you're playing with Larry Burrs.

You're going to have your head on the swivel.

Be ready for it, right?

And Jason, going back to your point about, you know, practice, now with Travis doing that in practice, I, because I think I see a little bit of that stolen up from other people.

Detroit did it a few times this year.

Yeah.

Since we do it in practice, that will help us defend it if it gets done against us, which I think is good.

Yeah.

There you go.

As someone that has done it, is throwing an NFL challenge flag fun?

Because it just looks like it's got to be a class, right?

Well, running down and calling a timeout when you're not supposed to, like I

messed up doing last year.

I'll tell you this, because I was a head coach for three years.

That's one of the,

that's a pressure-packed, tough thing to do and to put on.

I mean, listen, it's a, you gotta, you gotta trust the person you got upstairs, right?

You gotta, if you can't see it, you got to feel good.

Because nobody really wants to throw that thing and have it get overturned.

And every wide receiver is going to come over to you and tell you that they caught the ball.

Absolutely.

Now,

I had that happen when I was a head coach coming running over.

And now, I think it was my first year as a head coach or a rookie head coach.

But if he's saying he caught it, he must have caught it.

So his line goes out.

And sure as shit, incomplete.

Incomplete.

But they all want to say that.

Thanks for the tip.

But you know what, Travis?

There are, listen, I'm sure Coach Reed does this with you.

There are certain guys, I'm sure, on his offense that he trusts.

And if they say, I caught that, and he didn't see it, or they didn't see it, then I'll bet you he's throwing it because he just believes.

And, you know, somebody's not saying it just to say it.

And vice versa.

I promise you, I'm not going to be that guy that tells Coach Reid I caught the ball and he has to make it.

If it's a question, I'm going to be like, Coach, I'm not going to lie.

I have no idea.

You're going to have to go to somebody else on this.

You're going to have to ask Fraze up there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But it's a chat.

That's a tricky deal.

It is.

Do you have a favorite Super Bowl win of your four?

Well, listen.

Well, let's put it this way.

So back when we won in 07, and that was a great Super Bowl winner.

So it's the first.

You know what I prayed?

That that wouldn't be.

the most special moment in the NFL.

And fortunately for me, other ones came.

Because if that was the

peak, I mean, at the time, I was 47 years old, so I had a little bit more time in the league.

But every time you win one, that one at that time, right, Trav?

I mean,

that's the special one.

I mean, and then, but they all sit, they all kind of rest on their own.

Yeah, they have their own place for sure.

I'm with you on that.

I will tell you this, Jason.

The one when we beat the Eagles a couple years back.

I know.

I will tell you this, Chase.

I still was not happy.

Because

you guys scored too many points.

You know how I am, Travis.

It's about not giving up points.

So that kind of ate at me, even though we won the game.

You put it up being in a lot of time.

You pulled up when it mattered, though.

Well, yeah.

And thank God our offense scored as many points as they did.

No doubt.

Man, alive.

We've had this conversation before.

This is hotly debated on the internet.

As a defensive coordinator, do you think the average person could get one yard in the NFL?

Just put somebody out there.

Somebody out there running.

Can they get a yard?

Take somebody out of the front row and just throw them in there and see.

And like, and our guys, for real, and like putting them in the middle of the legitimate chops.

No, I don't think

our guys are too good, too big, too fast, too strong.

I mean, come on.

You got to know how to set up a block.

You got to know how to, like, there's so many.

It's, yeah, it's not as easy as these guys are making it, man.

Do you guys remember the show?

Didn't they have pros versus Joe's?

Yeah,

oh, yeah, great show.

Yeah, oh, yeah.

You guys ought to be on that.

Jesse Armstead, you guys know who Jesse Armstead linebacker,

real good friend of mine.

He's great.

He's a University of Miami guy.

He was on, I got the clip somewhere because when Jesse was with us in New York, I pulled it out, but he was on Pros versus Joe's.

And this guy came out.

I don't know who the dude was.

He was in Jesse's face.

And I'm going to tell you what, man.

Jesse near killed him.

Yeah.

One shot.

Near killed him.

And that was a totally copy.

I thought that was a funny show.

That was a pros versus Joe's.

Yeah.

I love that.

No, that show was one of my favorites, man.

Yeah.

It's hard for guys to do that and, you know, I don't know.

come back to play in the NFL.

But that show was a blast.

Hopefully they can remake that thing.

Yeah, I thought it was that one.

I guess it went away.

I I haven't seen it in a while.

Yeah, I haven't seen it either.

Who is the toughest player you ever had to game plan for in your career?

Well, I mean, listen, Tom jumps out there because

he was Tom Brady, and we had some pretty good battles.

But I will say this.

These quarterbacks nowadays that run and pass and travel, it seems like we see them every week.

Do you know what I mean?

To me, they're the so if

you got the quarterback that's smart and intelligent, can get you in and out of a bad play or into a good one, that can throw the football and that can run it.

And there's they're in this league,

man.

They seem to be more and more.

To me,

that is simply the toughest challenge.

You can take a, you can double a wide out.

I mean, listen, if it's the running back and you want to overcommit, you can take away a running back for certain periods.

But when the quarterback can do all of that, you know.

That's what I always felt.

And listen, I think Saquon deserves all the credit he can get.

But I've said this multiple times.

When you have a running quarterback, it forces the defense to play it honest.

They can't cheat to get those numbers right.

No question.

Where are you going to give at?

You got to be in someplace where we're going to have leverage.

And that has opened up so much for the Eagles and my time there.

And it's the same thing.

It's happened across the league with Lamar.

It's even Josh Allen.

Like all these guys.

Yeah, they're all doing it.

Patrick does it.

Listen, when you third down, to me, I love third down.

We take a lot of pride in third down.

And to me, when you can win third down, you get a pretty good chance of keeping the points low.

When you win third down on offense, you're going to score points.

And when you add to defending on third down, that the quarterback can pick it up with his legs

for seven or eight, that makes it really hard.

Because there's certain things you can't do and open up a lane for Josh Allen to take off and get eight.

Or, you know, Jalen did it in the in the Super Bowl.

We had, I thought we had really good coverage.

You know, you get the perfect coverage, but he finds a pass rush lane and boom, he's the first out because he gets it with his legs.

Those are, those are the challenging guys.

Well, we always ask everybody that's in the NFL this question.

What was your welcome to the NFL moment?

Ooh.

Welcome to the NFL moment.

Okay, you ready for this one?

Yeah.

I'm in Philadelphia as the quality control coach the first year in 1999.

We're in our first OTAs.

Maybe it's the fourth, fifth, or sixth practice, whatever.

I'm the guy in charge of bringing the book out that has the cards, you know, so you could stand up there and show the offense what to do, right?

Well, at the time, in Philadelphia at the time, Jason, we were in Veterans Stadium.

The vet.

And our pract, the vet, in our offices and locker room was in the vet, but our practice fields, you had to drive or walk across the parking lot.

So it was a quarter of a mile.

And then the fields were out there and there was a little bubble there.

Well,

on this particular day, the quality control coach is supposed to have the book.

When the whistle, the horn goes, and we're going to, now we need the cut.

Forgot the book.

Oh, no.

I'm in a flat-out panic.

Because the book's all the way in the vet over there.

And listen, and I remember it to this day.

Jim Johnson was terrific.

He's like, no big deal.

He walked over to like the quarterback coach and said, listen, give us a little bit of this, give us a little bit of that.

You know, he ran 10 plays, and then the offense goes now, right, Trav?

They were up.

So at that time, I was sprinting, you know, to the parking lot

to go get that book.

And I got back before the next period began.

But that was what I thought my NFL career was done though.

That's amazing.

I would have been in pure panic.

I'm panicking right now, just thinking about being in that situation.

I thought I had ruined the whole thing, but that one just kind of sticks out because it was early, but it was great.

That's incredible, coach.

Yeah.

92% is Coach Spags, baby, baby.

Man, I love you.

You guys are the best, man.

Thank you so much for the time, the stories.

That was awesome, Coach.

I appreciate you guys asking me to do it.

I really do.

When I was your guy's age, I was dreaming about being on the Kelsey Brothers show.

You're the best, Coach.

Always wanted to be on the Kelsey Brothers show.

A dream come true for all of us, big guy.

Here's what I'm going to do.

I'm going to go up right now and

take another hour or two, Jason, to figure out how to stop whatever Coach Reed and Travis and Patrick or they're driving

the OTAs.

I love it.

I love it.

You know it.

You guys are the best, man.

All righty, that wraps up another episode of New Heights.

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Thank you to our production and crew, always making us look good.

And shout out to Spags.

Can't wait to run it up with you again this year, man.

Had so much fun with that one.

92%ers.

Appreciate you guys tuning in.

Hopefully, you guys enjoyed this Spags episode.

Peace.

Thank you, everyone.