594: No Such Thing As Laser Club

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Subject to change.

Hi everyone, welcome to this, the first of two very special episodes of No Such Thing as a Fish.

Now, anyone who's into comedy will know that the Edinburgh Fringe Festival has just begun up in Scotland and we are not going there this year.

But what we thought we would do is highlight some of our very favourite comedians who will be up there.

So if you're traveling up to Edinburgh, you can listen to this and decide who you like and who you want to get tickets for.

These are some of our very, very favourite comedians out on the circuit right now.

We hand-picked ones who we think you will especially like.

Fact number one will be Ian Smith.

He was nominated in 2023 for Best Show at Edinburgh for his show Crushing.

And he is the co-host of the Northern News podcast with Amy Glen Hill.

It's an absolutely brilliant podcast.

If you're not going up to Edinburgh, then definitely check that out and find out more about him.

After Ian, you will hear from Abby Howells.

Now, Abby is a New Zealand comic.

You will know her from New Zealand Taskmaster and from Guy Montgomery's Guy Monk Spelling Bee.

I know a lot of people in the UK dig around the internet to find episodes of those.

And Abby is a particular favourite of anyone who likes New Zealand comedy.

She will be up in Edinburgh this year so definitely check out her show.

The third person, fact number three, will come from Aruj Ashfak.

Now Aruj, she won the best newcomer at Edinburgh for her show Oh No in 2023.

She's based in Mumbai and in fact she was the first India-based comedian to ever win the award as she's absolutely brilliant, absolutely lovely.

I know you'll love her.

And then finally, fact number four will come from Nish Kumar, who needs no introduction, I'm sure, to anyone listening to this podcast, but you'll know him from all British palo shows, especially, of course, QI.

Now, a fifth person from this podcast who will be at the Edinburgh Fringe is a young up-and-coming startup called Dan Schreiber.

He will be here with his other podcast, The Cryptid Factor, which I know a lot of you are fans of.

He'll be here with Buttons and with Restarvi, and they will be doing their crazy thing at the Gilded Balloon Balloon in the first week of the festival.

So if you want to see Dan up there, you're going to have to get in there quick.

Anyway, I really, really hope you enjoy this podcast.

It's something a bit new for us having four different guests on, but we really enjoy doing it and I really hope you guys will enjoy it too.

If you like what you hear from Nish, Aruj, Abby or Ian, then definitely check those out.

If you're not going to Edinburgh, then get on the internet, follow them all on social media, find out everything they've done on YouTube, etc.

And if you are going to Edinburgh and you see any of them, then make sure you tell them that no such thing as a fish sent you.

Anyway, that's enough from me.

There's not much more to say apart from on with the podcast.

Hello and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from eight undisclosed locations around the world.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with Anna Tashinsky, Andrew Hunter-Murray, James Harkin, and four very special guests.

And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days and in no particular order.

Here we go.

Starting with fact number one, and that is Ian Smith.

At the 2020 British Puzzle Championship, Sarah Mills solved a 1,000-piece jigsaw puzzle in one hour and 40 minutes.

That's an average of one piece every six seconds.

That's not possible, right?

Like, surely.

No, I think it's easy, isn't it?

A good one.

Really?

Six seconds.

Sarah Mills listening to the podcast, furious.

I don't know.

Yeah, well, sorry, Sarah, if you are listening.

That was a long time, right?

And at the end, like the last one, you don't have to think about that.

Okay, so we can minus the last one in the first bit, right?

Yeah, yeah.

The time is sort of really extended out by that first bit where you're just turning them all around in that first year.

Ian, why are you into jigsaws?

Is that why you picked this?

Well, not really, no.

I think it started because

I was in the Highlands.

Me and my girlfriend, we walked past a charity shop and we saw like a mad Ravensburger jigsaw, like a really surreal,

like underwater scene that looked like it had been compiled by a kind of like Salvador Dali-esque artist.

And she was laughing at it and she said she'd really love the jigsaw.

But the shop was closed.

So just by googling descriptions of what I saw in the jigsaw, I tried to track it down.

And we did that.

But then I became very paranoid.

I think I have this pessimism that as the jigsaw was getting closer to completion, I was convinced that a piece wasn't there.

Right.

And

at one point.

Ian, I thought what you were going to say is that when you finished it, she was going to split up with you and the jigsaw was the only thing keeping you together.

Yeah, I thought that.

So I was hiding pieces around the house.

No, I sort of.

I lost my head a little bit.

And at one point, I'm not proud of this.

I emptied the hoover and I looked through all the dust because I thought I'd hoovered up a jigsaw piece.

I think at one point it was pointed out to me that I'm getting the floor very dirty.

But I was very happy with that because I was holding a hoover.

I had all the tools to sort of clean this up again.

But yeah, the piece wasn't missing.

The piece was resting on top of the jigsaw on a colour that it looked similar to.

No.

But yeah, then I sort of entered a a jigsaw speed tournament because I thought that'd be a fun thing to do with my girlfriend.

but um but yeah we accidentally entered um I think like a championship event

that's good the bar the barrier to entry in the jigsaw world seems lower as in normally you can't accidentally enter like the hundred meters at the Olympics yes and like they they really are strict about that so were you a pair entry because this is the thing isn't it like individuals do 500 pieces and then pairs normally do a thousand pieces yeah yeah yeah we we were a couple I'm not trying to throw shade on the jigsaw community, but we felt like we were the most attractive couple at the Jigsaw event.

Oh,

I'm sorry, but it was an older group, and we felt like we were really young and dynamic.

Like I was wearing a leather jacket and sunglasses.

We felt very

playing up to the sort of bad boy of Jigsaw.

The James Dean of Jigsaws.

What everyone wants to know, Ian, is how you did.

Well, I think that's why I've tried to overcompensate at the beginning by saying we were the coolest couple.

We did not finish.

we didn't finish, um, and we sort of snuck out because um, we were there for three hours and we had not done a lot of the jigsaw, and multiple people were already standing up and sort of fist pumping.

So, we just sort of slowly slid it back into the box and um, yeah, and went home.

It was quite sad.

What's the vibe like, Ian?

Is it like that if you make any noise, do you get totted at and stuff?

It's very serious.

Like, everyone has a kitchen spatula.

Interesting.

Everyone except us.

Is that for spanking their colleagues if they make a mistake or they try and jam a piece in where it doesn't go?

It's a very racy event, actually.

It's apparently to scoop the jigsaw pieces with more ease.

Because it's quite hard to pick them up.

So they're scooping them.

The table that won had...

two electrolyte pouches on their table like if you were running American

and were like doing them for energy.

If you didn't have a spatula, no wonder you took three hours and hadn't done any of it.

Yeah, we didn't have the tools.

I can't see how a spatula would help though.

I struggle getting an egg out of a frying pan and not having the yolk break, let alone trying to get a single piece of jigsaw with a spatula.

That's a wild skill.

I think the thing is, Dan, if you've done like a cat and you've done the cat, okay, but you need to move the cat to another part of the table, then you don't want to pick it all up and move it.

Beautiful.

Okay, I get it now ian you need to describe this better mate that was i'm sorry

i think i've only truly learned what the spatula is for right now

i i thought it was just for scooping like clearing the table up but as soon as you said that i was like yeah that is so clearly what that spatula is for

it's such a shame ian that you didn't um that you didn't because i you know every year there's like oh this guy he tried to do the marathon and okay he broke his leg halfway through or he didn't do it but but he kept going and three days later everyone's cheering him over the line and that could have been you guys yeah still in the venue everyone's left it's like a function room so there's probably like another function on them

it's just like a wedding going on

i'm so close now

where did you do it ian this was in newmarket newmarket right um there was also a um car and motorbike event in the same building and it was so easily definable of like who was at which

event.

They'll have seen you in in your leather jacket and thought, oh, he's probably here for the um, probably here for the Harley-Davidsons.

Did you find that was the end of your career and you've not been able to look at a jigsaw since, or have you kept your hand in a little bit?

I haven't done a jigsaw since.

Me and my girlfriend were between um flats at the minute.

We thought we were going to be moving into a flat, it got delayed by a lot of time.

So, we're in like Airbnbs for like a week at a time.

And with the speed we do a jigsaw, that's not enough time to set it up on a table and and finish it do you have a jig roll a jig roll what's it is that like um like a swiss what a swiss roll jigsaw combination it's sort of it's well i was just trying to gauge how professional you are um because uh it's like a bolt of cloth that you do the jigsaw on so you can keep a half done puzzle on that and the and the people have it stick to it do you

yeah yeah i've never done a jigsaw in my life but i still have one you've got to be prepared.

Really?

You never know.

You've presumably got a spatula.

James, you're halfway there to being.

What's the difference between a jig roll and, say, your average bit of cloth?

I'll hand over to my colleague James here, who's the average.

I've never opened it, so I'm not really sure.

But I think it's like slightly more stiff than a piece of cloth.

So you kind of roll it and it kind of keeps its form a bit more.

Oh, nice.

So it kind of holds the integrity of the jigsaw.

But I think, like, I bought it for my wife because one time she told me she liked jigsaws, and I bought her a jigsaw and a jig roll, and it turned out that she didn't like jigsaws after all.

I think that happens a lot.

I love the idea that James has a kind of potential hobbies chamber.

It's this massive hangar, and it's full of everything he might possibly want to take up.

Like, there's a paragliding thing in there, and there's like a golden backgammon set and all this.

Okay, so 2 a.m.

Someone mentions it.

Yeah.

They're really secretive at these competitions.

So Ravensburger, who are, I think,

they're the big cheese of the jigsaw world, aren't they?

I mean,

Gibson will try and try and say they're a big cheese as well.

But Ravensburger of Davidson has put them in the ground.

They've cornered the market and edged the market.

Very strong.

Very strong.

They will generate a new puzzle for every one of these competitions.

And they're kept in top secret conditions in their laboratory in Bista.

People are so proud of their jigsaws.

For example, there's a few charity shops down in the area that I live, in Margate.

In every single one, I saw a giant framed finished jigsaw that is just now a piece of art.

Yeah.

Okay, Dan, that has happened too.

I think this is the largest puzzle ever made just two years ago in Derbyshire.

It's 120,000 pieces.

It's 30 centimeters tall, but it's a third of a mile long.

That's what I want to image of, because it's quite hard to think like a snake would fit in that kind of aspect ratio.

It's sausage it's just a very very long very long sausage hard to do um and that's framed

oh no i'm thinking of a different one that was framed which was 33 000 pieces give or take and a man called graham andrew uh in norfolk was trying to do it with a load of volunteers like it was a real community effort people would drop in and help and as they got to the end they had the nightmare situation that ian had that four pieces were missing

and what he had already thought of this he had bought a second version of the puzzle just in case.

So they sifted through 33,000 pieces to find the missing four.

Unfortunately, they didn't quite fit because it wasn't exactly the same cut.

And he said, Mr.

Andrew said, I considered squishing them in, but decided it had to be done properly.

So I asked the company to recut them.

So the Jigsaw company had to send out

specially print four pieces and send them out.

And it's done.

It's all done.

It's done now.

And that one has been framed.

Do you think the volunteers he got in, one of them thought

it is funny to take a piece?

It's very cruel, but it would be really tempting to go, I'm going to help out for two hours.

I'm going to really do a decoy, but I'm pocketing two of these pieces.

It actually sounds like four people had that idea.

And I can imagine them all going in the pub afterwards going, you did it as well.

You did it as well.

There's one other cool jigsaw that you can get your hands on, which I quite like.

So jigsaw puzzler people, people who do it, there's a word that describes them, which is dissectologists.

So this was in the 18th century when they were first made, jigsaws.

They weren't called jigsaws.

They were called dissected puzzles or dissected maps.

So I guess you were putting a dissected map back together.

So you became a dissectologist.

And in 1985, a guy called Tom Tyler founded a club for jigsaw puzzle lovers.

And it's called the Benevolent Confraternity of Dissectologists.

And this is a club that's still going to this day for jigsaw.

I bought my wife membership.

Oh my God.

So you've got the exciting, did you get the exciting membership card?

Yeah.

Which is a jigsaw.

Oh no.

You know what?

I thought buying my wife a jigsaw and a jigsaw mat was a really bad gift, but this is awful, Andy.

We remain married.

You can't even rip up your membership card in protest because you're then just creating a fun puzzle.

Do you know why jigsaws are called jigsaws?

Because they use a jigsaw to cut them, presumably.

Well, that is it.

Apart from when they were invented, the jigsaw hadn't been invented yet.

Right.

And now they don't use jigsaws anymore.

Like, they use lasers and stuff.

So, for a very short amount of time, they did use jigsaws.

And that was when they named it.

But for most of the start of their life and most of the end of the life, you never used jigsaws.

That's so funny.

The jigsaw is the one that goes up and down and up and down, isn't it?

And you push push a bit of wood around in a shape and that and it's named after the fact that it looks like the saw is doing a little jig

right right this is good i didn't know that do you propose that's very weird they should change their name now to lasers oh yeah i think more people would buy them in your sunglasses with your leather jacket yeah front of the queue with my laser club membership go down to laser quest then go down to the laser club

all right well we need to wrap up um ian you're going to be up in edinburgh right, with a new show?

Yeah, I'm doing a show.

It's called Foot Spa Half Empty,

which is partly because you've got to name the show in January before you've written any of it.

But yeah, it's on at 12.30 in the afternoon at Monkey Barrel.

Yeah, I feel very excited about it.

It's 20 minutes too long at the minute, but I've got a bit of time to get rid of that.

But yeah, I'd love it if people could come along.

Otherwise, it would be sad if no one else comes.

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okay it's time for fact number two and that is Abby Howells my fact is in 1386 a pig was put on trial for murder

oh what

okay yes yes

The pig was a bit naughty.

It did maul a child to death.

Oh, wow.

This got that quite quickly.

Yes, but I have one fun fact that will hopefully lighten it up.

It was executed via hanging, but they dressed the pig in human clothes to kill it.

Good stuff.

You're right.

There's not enough fun in execution, is there?

And that really sends a message that it can be done.

um yeah no i mean it's pretty grim eh dressing a pig up in a waistcoat and then hanging it oh come on it's a funny image until the hanging it's a funny image can i make it even more grim so she had six piglets and they were all put on trial as accessories to murder what that's really unfair and they were found guilty they were found guilty but they were acquitted on grounds of youth and that the mother had been a bad example to them okay did they get a better lawyer for that bit of the trial because clearly the first one didn't do a great job.

Yeah, the pig represented themselves and it was a mess.

That's crazy.

Get a lawyer.

No, it's crazy.

This is mine.

This is my moment.

I can do this.

And then all else I found about it is the actual hanging as well.

They had to give the hangman a new pair of gloves afterwards.

Part of his pay was that he would get a new pair of gloves for doing the hanging.

This is crazy.

Yeah, although there was an article on JSTOR that said,

and as they put it, the hangman in this case,

it was in a place called Falaise, I think, in France.

The hangman is still owed both for the execution and the new gloves.

Still owed.

So what?

Yeah, no.

He's turning in his grave waiting to be paid for this gruesome task.

Because it's not easy to dress a pig up.

It wasn't easy to be a hangman, to be honest, in those days.

Like, you would get your own house.

and you'd get fed and you get loads of stuff but no one was allowed to come near you no one was allowed to touch you no one was allowed to talk to you you'd be like a special person in the town, but you'd be completely awaited.

Do you think that the dressing the pig up?

Who was ordering that?

Was that the hangman who was like, listen, I've got an idea.

It sounds a little bit crazy.

I think maybe the local tailor, local tailors.

Oh, a bit of advertising.

Yeah, then the local glove makers were like, I'm getting in on this as well.

Yeah, because a lot of people went to watch, so you've got a big audience there.

Look how well tailored that that is.

I read one account that they put a human face mask on the pig as well.

But there's many accounts, so it's hard to know which one necessarily to trust.

But I was reading a long article in the Medievalist, which is a site that talks about all the stuff that was happening back then.

They said that in the 12th and 13th century, that

the reason a lot of animals went on trial in this period, so something like 85 examples that we know of, the reason they were happening was law suddenly became a bigger thing in more places around Europe.

And so there were way more lawyers than they had cases to deal with.

And so

they needed to get practice.

And so quite often, a lot of lawyers would defend a pig and try and get it off using new methods.

And like, oh, I tried this new thing out.

And

the judge didn't like it, though.

Damn it.

Okay, won't do that with humans.

So it's just like a testing ground.

Because they did.

They found cool ways of exonerating their clients, I guess.

There was a 1500s French lawyer called Chatonay who built his whole legal reputation on being the counsel for rats that were on trial for destroying a field of barley.

And first of all, so they didn't turn up to court when they were summoned.

And he found this thing in the law that said that if you could plausibly have not seen the notice, then you don't need to turn up.

And he was like, these rats live in loads of different places.

So then every single parish council, like within a 50-mile radius, had to put like a big announcement out saying, okay, all rats need to come to court on this date and then when they still didn't appear the lawyer said actually there's a thing in the law that says if a person's cited to appear at a court but they can't come safely they are allowed to refuse to obey and of course these rats can't come safely because of the unwearied vigilance of their mortal enemies the cats who are always waiting i was just wondering like you know in terms of practicing law techniques and stuff was it all that showmanship you know the wrezzle dazzle that we see, like, I've got a surprise witness.

It's like, a dog.

And the dog's up there with like a cigarette, like,

you'll never crack me.

I was going, where did he get his suit?

It's stunning.

That tailor is good in this town.

I think one other theory is that if you were a landowner and let's say someone ate all your barley, some rats did, then you would want some money back for it.

But you couldn't do that unless there'd there'd been some legal process and someone had been found guilty.

And so that's why these rats were put on trial so that the owners would get something.

Right.

Abby, is this a personal interest of yours?

Do you did you study animal law at uni?

Well,

kind of.

No.

Well, I do.

Okay, here's, you know, here we go.

I have a PhD and my PhD is on women in prison and the way they're portrayed in television, film and theater.

Wow.

It's not a good good PhD.

I don't entreat anyone to find it.

It's, I barely scraped in.

Like when I handed it in, they were like, you serious?

And I was like, please,

I beg.

And they're like, all right.

It's embarrassing for us if you don't pass.

But

basically, a big chunk of my thesis was on public executions and like the spectacle of them because they were like, you know, that was the entertainment.

Like, you'd be like, oh, Friday night, what are we going to do?

should we pop down see a lovely execution someone's been treasonous well and if it's an animal being executed like that's even better that's more of a pool isn't it because it's still a bit more rare and you can all have a barbecue afterwards yeah i did wonder about that did they eat it it feels like in those days you wouldn't want to waste a pig even a naughty one yeah and one dressed so dashingly yeah

and one other theory as to why they did all this stuff is because it just showed that the authorities were doing something right So, all bad stuff's happening.

People have been, you know, lost their barley or the animals have killed people, and they're like, Okay, well, we have to show that we're not just sitting back and letting this happen, so we're gonna put something on trial.

And quite often, like, if your barley got eaten or whatever, it would be like all the mice are in trouble, but they would just pick one mouse and then put like a show trial on for that one mouse.

That's a fiddly job for the tailor, isn't it?

The mouse one, that's a challenging one, and probably a carpenter presumably has to build a a tiny dock for it to go into.

What a gig.

Yeah.

And I think people think maybe it didn't happen in England and Scotland and Wales.

It was just Western Europe, like Switzerland, France, Italy, because we had jury trials.

This is what a BBC documentary said.

We had jury trials, and it would be harder to, with a straight face, present a full jury with these cases.

Your jury is supposed to be 12 equals, right?

So you'd have to get, yeah, 12 pigs.

That's a chaotic courtroom, isn't it?

Yeah.

I'd love to know more about the hangman, who, as was being mentioned before, is so isolated from the rest of the community that they presumably are just told, you've got a job today, you've got to kill someone.

And they just keep rocking up.

And he's like, what the fuck is this?

It's a mouse.

It's like, yeah, it's

we've sort of expanded your brief recently.

Jesus, how am I going to get the noose around?

No one prepared me for this.

There's actually this hangman in New Zealand.

Like, we had a murderer called Minnie Dean, and she's one of our most famous murderers here that we have here in New Zealand, and she murdered children and put them in hat boxes.

When was this?

I think, like, maybe, I want to say, like, late 1800s, early 1900s.

Oh, it was a long time ago.

Long time ago, yeah, yes.

And she was found guilty and sentenced to execution.

And they could find no one to hang her.

No one wanted to do it.

But they had this guy that basically had hung up his noose a long time ago and then he'd gone to like live in the bush and they were like we gotta get this guy he's the only one and then they found him and he's like i'll do it but with one condition i want to spend 30 minutes with her in the room

and so he went and like spent 30 minutes with her and then he was like i'll do it so she must have been a punishing hang

what happened in that 30 minutes no one knows what they talked about That's a film.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm sure some very mediocre play scripts have been read about their moments.

I hope so.

Pigs are still getting in trouble these days.

Are they?

Lots of naughty pigs around.

Well, I just remember that great story of how Peppa Pig had an episode banned in Australia because she makes friends with a spider and they couldn't play that over there because it taught young kids to go and walk up to.

Because didn't she say, like, spiders are our friends and they can't harm us or or something like that?

Yeah.

But I don't think Peppa's met a funnel web, so it sort of was a big, big problem over in Oz.

And I think in Korea, she was banned for it was like gangster-related stuff.

What?

I haven't seen that episode.

I know.

I've just pulled that from somewhere.

Is it because she has a different number of digits?

Yes.

Who was that that?

That was in Japan, I think.

Was that Postman Pat or someone like that who got banned because they were like the yakuza with four fingers?

I know there's one episode of Bluey you can't watch in America.

Oh, yeah.

Why?

Can you guess why, in fact?

Okay, so

we all know Bluey is the amazing kids show,

and it's about two dog parents and two dog kids.

Yeah.

Anti-gun.

Bluey wants a gun, and they say

no, Bluey.

Nutty, no guns.

It's close, in fairness.

Oh, what else do Americans do?

The death penalty.

Was it the death penalty one where they execute?

Bandit was executed.

Yeah.

No, it's not that.

What it is, is there's an episode where Bandit, who's the dad, gives birth, or it looks like he's giving birth to a baby.

Oh, yeah.

And it's not really happening, but he kind of finds himself in this position where he's laid down in a paddling pool and it looks like he's giving birth.

And I think in America, they thought that this wasn't evidence of like a typical family because the man was was giving birth but he wasn't giving birth no he wasn't but like it's not been always in the plot of bluey

i guess when people complain about these things they're not always completely using excellent logic their brains

cooking in their head so animals are still oh go on abby oh well with um public executions like kind of they were initially done to sort of demonstrate like the power of the crown right like they would have they were quite theatrical like quite dramatic like

they would do stuff like, you know, someone receiving a pardon at the 11th hour and people were brought in in a carriage, like all extremely performative.

And one of the reasons that public executions was phased out, there were many of them, but because people were given the ability to say last words,

people started really liking the criminals.

So like they'd either be like,

oh no, I'm so sorry.

And they'd be like, oh, bloody hell, this seems bad.

I I wouldn't want to be executed.

Or they'd be sort of cavalier and be like, I did it and I do it again.

And then they sort of became like folk heroes.

So, well, and it just leads me to think, like, was the pig given an opportunity to give some last words?

I'm trying to think what noise a pig could make to make the crowd go, oh, hang on.

Hang on.

That's all, folks.

Presumably.

You're right.

So animals are still getting arrested all around the world.

Oh, yeah.

In Mumbai last year, there was a pigeon who was arrested because they had some Chinese words written on their body, and they thought it must be a spy.

What were the words?

Was it just

cooked this side up or something?

No, it was more like sort of belonging to Taiwan Pigeon Racing Society.

Right.

But the people who captured it couldn't read it, so they assumed it was what kind of planes were making in India or something like that.

Google Translate, guys.

Just take a photo.

Google Translate.

Just make sure.

Here's another one.

A few years ago, there were 14 squirrels arrested in Iran who were accused of espionage for the United States.

Oh, yeah.

And apparently,

what was said was that they had little sort of electronic devices on them.

Perhaps they were listening in or something like that.

And then we never really heard anything else about it.

A few journalists asked the head of police and he said, oh, I don't know anything about that.

And basically, experts have have said that it would be a pretty stupid idea to use squirrels as spies because they're extremely unreliable and they tend to just run off wherever they want.

That is one of the many, many problems with using them as spies, I would say.

Yeah.

And they have terrible memories, don't they?

Don't they bury their nuts and forget where they've buried them?

And that's how trees grow, basically.

That's how we have trees on our planet is just because squirrels don't know where dinner has been buried.

Come on, they bury a lot of nuts.

If you buried a thousand nuts, would you remember every single one's location, Dan?

I'd probably pick one one location to put all my nuts in well that's your problem dan isn't it that's why the dad shriver squirrel would have died out because it just takes one person to find that cache of nuts and you have no nuts left or they wouldn't find it and i would have a mega tree the biggest tree ever

all my nuts combined hey i read just while i was reading up on pigs and seeing the trouble they get into and so on i came across something I've never heard of before, which is the pig toilet.

You guys heard of a pig toilet?

Don't know if I want to know.

Go on.

I'll tell you, you don't, but I'm going to say it anyway.

This is done in farms in China and other bits of Asia where pigs basically eat everything, including human feces.

And so, what it is, is it's a toilet whereby a tube is attached where the feces goes down and it lands in a big bowl for the pigs to eat.

It's their food bowl, basically, is the end of a human toilet.

It's a real thing.

The pig toilet.

If that was me, I would maul a a child to death yeah and

that's what i'm saying

if i was the defense lawyer i'd open with that maybe stop shitting in its food bowl maybe

maybe that's the start of the problem and it's the real animals here yeah

we need to wrap up um abby tell us about your edinburgh show where you're going to be hello yes i'm coming to edinburg all the way from new zealand What the heck?

And I'm doing a show called Welcome to My Dream.

And I'm at Assembly in Studio 4 at 6.40 every single day.

And my show is about mainly, honestly, my enemies

and people that have crossed me.

And

I'm really brave and don't confront them to their face, but talk about it in a comedy show.

On the other side of the world.

Yes.

My enemies include a local improv troop and a museum of optical illusions that I'm in a public feud with.

okay, it's time for fact number three, and that is Uruj Ashfaq.

Hi, my fact is that emotional tears have more protein in them, so they fall slower, and it's by design so that our tribe can see us cry and comfort us.

Very clever.

I didn't know, sort of, I'm vaguely aware that there are different kinds of tears, but I didn't think they were made of different things.

So, there are three different types of tears.

There is basil, which is just the oily layer that we have on our eyelids to keep it from drying out.

There's reflex, which is when we're like cutting onions or there's some dust in our eyes.

So those fall really quickly to like flush away any irritants.

And then there are emotional tears.

And they have the highest amount of protein levels.

So they fall slower and they look more dramatic and sad.

So good.

It's amazing.

And when you know this, you can see it, I think.

Like, if you see someone and there are tears coming down their face, the difference between, oh, I've got something in my eye and, oh, I'm really upset and I need to be comforted, you can actually see them going slower down the face.

They seem more viscous.

I'm really going to look out for that.

So actually, we shouldn't say when people are upset the tears were streaming down his face.

We should say the tears were crawling slowly down his face.

Although I think with onions, I kind of want sympathy when I'm cutting onions.

You know, I could could do a slow tears to draw more attention to it.

It doesn't say anywhere that you have to pick one.

You could just cry them all at the same time.

All three.

I was looking at the sort of, you know, the origins of like

why we cry due to emotion.

And

there's a theory, and I love this so much, it's by a Dutch psychologist.

He's called Ad Wingerhurtz, and he spent 20 years working on tears.

So he does, he sort of knows his

onions.

Sorry.

Okay.

What he thinks is that it's an accident.

I'm sorry.

He thinks it's an accident that we associate tears with emotion, right?

So when infants are wailing, because infants do naturally wail if they're in distress, wow,

they will squeeze the muscles around their eyes as part of the wailing, and that puts pressure on the eyeball.

So tears happened originally as a kind of...

reflex and then that became a signal of neediness by children and we don't really control those muscles which is why it's it's relatively hard to fake crying oh and then it evolved naturally because we it turned out it was useful evolutionarily because people can see you crying, they comfort you.

That's it.

Yeah, that's interesting.

Wouldn't it be nice if babies cried in like harmonies?

But they always cry in this really annoying, discordant sound.

And of course that is also an evolutionary thing because if they made a nice tune when they cried, no one would ever come to their help.

But the interesting thing is like that this sound that they make is actually very similar to loads of different animals.

And loads of different animals make very similar crying sounds.

It's why when the foxes are having sex in my back garden, I think that my baby's upset.

Well, she doesn't like, she doesn't like

that sort of thing.

No,

and you do make her sleep in the garden, so it's just really exposed all the time.

The really interesting thing is if you get the sound of a baby seal crying, for instance, and you play that to a mother deer, then the deer will react as if it's one of her children who's sick.

I wonder what would happen if you played me crying to a baby scene or a mother deer.

I think it's the same because it's a very similar sound.

So they would think, and there's one theory that actually the reason that all everyone evolved the same way is because then animals can help each other.

But I don't, I think that's my what who did that study?

Disney?

Is that the Snow White Institute?

Aruj, are you familiar with sad bait?

I was was reading about the specifically Indian phenomenon of crying videos, where lots of influencers will lip-sync and cry along to audio from movies.

And in about 2017, this was a huge deal.

I think you know more than me at this point.

But I think it's like an acting showreel almost, right?

Is it a sad scene, or is it like, you know, the song Prince Ali and Alaska

sobbing their way through it?

Okay, it's like Bambi's mum dying.

But

people got famous.

I mean, there was a kid called Saigo Goswami who set up a TikTok in 2017 and basically became wealthy and famous off the back of crying along to images.

Yeah, and the government banned it.

Yes.

Did they ban it because of the crying videos?

They just thought this is a real downer.

Because it's bumming the whole country out.

Are you thinking this could be something where you could make your fortune, Andy?

Is that why you're...

I'm always on the lookout for content.

You know me.

I'm content, content, content.

And I cry a lot.

So

let's marry these.

One of the problems with studying, crying, and its effect and tears and their effect is that it's quite hard to make study participants cry on demand.

So do you guys think you could cry on demand?

I could.

Could you?

Could you?

Really?

What would it take?

If they showed you a sad film, you'd be up for it.

Yes.

Or just let me be by myself for a bit.

I think I could get into it.

Usually always on the verge of tears anyway.

That actually makes me quite tense here now.

Have you ever done any acting, Garouge, where you have to cry?

In my stand-up bits, I have a whole bit about crying, actually.

So I almost pretend to cry on stage, and everyone was like, oh my God, is she really going to cry?

And I said, no, this is just years and years of practice.

And what is your trick?

It's like you think of a sad thing?

Yes.

If I have to really make myself cry, I think of a sad thing.

But otherwise, I just make my crying face, which I have a lot of practice of.

Because

I'll be honest, when you cry as much as I do, you do end up looking in the mirror every once in a while.

You're like, what am I looking like right now?

Have you ever done that?

Looked in the mirror and cried.

James is a blubber.

James lets on that he's one of the strong and silent types, actually.

He's incredibly in touch with his feelings.

I am.

As soon as his Zoom goes off, I'm going to be in the garden.

The foxes won't know what's going on.

I am interested by how people make other people cry, though, because there was quite a famous study about how female tears make men less aggressive, which is quite interesting.

And they got 25 men to smell vials of tears that women had cried out.

But, and they found that they were 44% less aggressive in video games afterwards, whatever they were playing, GoldenEye or Diddy Kong Racing or whatever.

And they got a hundred women to come and donate tears, and only six of them could produce the necessary amount.

Really?

Yeah, so I really, you know, you could volunteer yourself for Science Arouge.

That would be great.

And I'm always crying because of men anyway.

So it's like a full circle.

I was looking into what makes Americans cry and the circumstances under which they cry.

Have you ever cried at home, at a funeral, in your car, that kind of stuff?

I mean, all of it.

In every single category, women say they cry more than men or have cried more than men in that circumstance.

But the top five reasons that Americans say would make them cry would be the death of a loved one, the death of a pet, feeling extremely sad, saying goodbye to a loved one before a long separation, and chopping onions.

And that chopping onions came before speaking about an emotional subject, watching a sad movie, and witnessing injustice or cruelty.

It could be that they just really like onions.

What about sporting events?

That's the only time when I feel emotional, really.

Oh, yeah, actually, the Wimbledon Women's Tennis Final.

I was almost crying along in sympathy this year.

That was tough watch.

I read that in 17th century America,

if the bride didn't cry, like furiously cry when she was getting married, they would accuse her of being a witch because they believed that a witch could only shed three tears at a time through her left eye.

Oh, wow.

So, not only do you have to cry, you've got to make sure that right eye cries.

Yes, I mean a wedding is a happy occasion.

Should you be sobbing your heart out?

Maybe

happiness, Sanna.

Tears of happiness.

Yeah, I think to be safe, you'd have to make sure you married an absolute bastard so you could guarantee crying on your wedding day.

Have you guys heard of tear catchers?

These are really cool.

No.

No.

So they're a little bit of glass that you put underneath your eyes.

They were first made in ancient Persia, but they've had them.

The Romans had them as well.

And the idea was: let's say I went away on a trip.

We were touring Australia or something.

I would give my wife one of these and she would keep it underneath her eyes.

And then when I came back, I'd be able to see how many tears she'd made because she was so upset that I was on top.

Come on, how many wives desperately filling it up with a tap?

But that was a real thing.

And even the Victorians had them.

So, you know, we're quite unusual that we don't have them.

So, I was looking at, like, you know, crying behaviours around the world in different cultures.

And the Bow people of the Andaman Islands, who I think

do not exist anymore,

but they used to until the early 20th century.

In the late 1800s, if you were separated from your Bow beau friend or family member for a long time, when you were reunited, the way that you celebrated that is you sat apart and completely ignored each other for like a full day, hours and hours, a full day.

And then, as soon as dusk fell, you turned around and you flung your arms around each other and you cried for an hour.

Wow.

Isn't that interesting?

Yeah.

Very, very choreographed reunion.

It's a bit like coming home to a dog, though, isn't it?

Which you've not seen for a while.

They will pretend for a while

uh anna can i ask if after about 56 minutes of you crying yeah is it a faux pas to be checking your watch

yeah i think you're in serious trouble i think you're kicked off the island

do you know that tears are like fingerprints so everyone has completely different tears but uh that's very rarely useful in a burglary investigation

that's why i always leave bambi on when I leave the house.

I just make sure that any burglars had a bit of a week.

But yeah, because they all have different organic substances, different molecular makeup.

You could just plant evidence then.

You just make somebody cry, collect their tears, and then leave it at the scene of the crime.

Really good idea.

I think could you edit this so I can actually use it in real life and they can't trace it back to me.

Mouse tears are erotic.

I always say.

Yeah, look, we all knew it.

It's two other mice.

But it is quite cool.

It's male mouse tears.

So they cry and they lubricate their eyebrows.

Their eyebrows?

No.

Their eyebrows.

Everyone loves a wet eyebrow.

And then they spread their tears around their body and they groom themselves with them.

And they found out that if a male mouse is crying and spreading its tears around its body and the female mouse comes into contact with it, she will engage in laudosis, which has always been one of my favorite words, which is where a female mouse or animal raises their rump up to say, Do come in.

So

that's

you have that on a little mat outside your front door, don't you, Alan?

The picture of me just bending over my bum out.

Yeah, that's so refreshing because men have the opposite reaction to my tears.

They leave, they're like, Bye, this is good.

No, that's them showing you their bottom.

You've just misinterpreted.

That's what they're saying.

All right, we should wrap up.

But before you go, Aruj, I believe you're going to be in Edinburgh and not just hanging out there, doing a show, correct?

Yes, I'm doing my solo show.

It's called How to Be a Baddie from 30th July to 24th August, 6.25 p.m.

at the Monkey Barrel.

I will be a bad girl at the fringe this August.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Great to talk crying.

We're all sobbing now, obviously.

Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is Nish Kumar.

In 1967, for eight dates, Jimi Hendrix supported the monkeys on tour in the United States of America.

What a privilege for him.

I was trying to come up with an analogy of who it's like supporting whom these these days.

Is it like Leonard Cohen supporting Sabrina Carpenter or something?

Like, is it...

Well,

maybe it's like Kendrick Lamar opening for the Wiggles or something.

Maybe we're being a tad unkind to the monkeys, who did, you know, in spite of the fact that they were sort of a confected band for a television show, definitely had sort of some musical talent.

Not that I'm denigrating the musicianship of the Wiggles.

Yeah, thank you.

I was biting my tongue there, but yeah.

Kendrick and the Wiggles.

Are you kidding me?

That's my dream gig.

So

who is this Jimi Hendrix guy?

I think we should get into that.

Who the hell is this Jimi Hendrix man?

Yes.

And actually, he wasn't the biggest thing in the world then, was he?

What was it in 67?

Yeah, he did this famous performance at the Monterey Festival of Pop because he is American, had been in America for years and years.

Then in 66, he's performing on his own after having spent a couple of years as a kind of sideman playing in clubs across the south.

He's then in Greenwich Village, performing kind of with backup musicians but on his own at the cafe wire in new york chas chandler the recently ex-bassist of the animals sees hendricks and thinks right i'm taking this guy to england i'm going to find two british musicians to back him up in london and then we're going to put together a band that happens and then from total obscurity he becomes the hottest thing in london mccartney recommends him to the monterrey festival pop he then goes to monterey festival le pop and sort of gives one of the kind of seminal performances in the development of popular music because he, you know, his fusion of psychedelic rock and a lot of that was accelerated by new guitar pedal effects that were coming through that he was often the first person to actually have access to.

But he creates this kind of sound that fuses psychedelic rock with some very, very traditional orthodox blues music.

And, you know, he's dressed in a way that no rock star is dressed.

And then at the end of this performance, he does a cover of Wild Thing by the Trogs, and then he sets fire to and destroys his guitar on stage.

Oh, is that moment?

The performance is extraordinary because also, you know, it's a hippie crowd.

They sort of, when he sings, he's got a very beautiful, delicate song called The Wind Cries Mary, and the hippie crowd is very enchanting.

And then people are just very quickly horrified as he let's not be around the bush, simulates sex with his guitar for an uncomfortably long amount of time, and then sets it on fire and smashes it on the stage.

And the monkeys are watching, and they think

we have been, this is the support act we've been looking for for when we played Last Train to Clarksville.

Well, Mickey Delence, who's in the monkeys, that was the second time he saw him.

So he actually saw Hendrix in America,

Greenwich Village, I think, and he saw him playing with his teeth.

And he was like, this guy's amazing, but he didn't get his name.

So when they were at the gig, they were like, he was like, that's the teeth guy.

We've got to get him.

And to be fair to the monkeys, they knew their place in rock music and they knew what his emerging place might be.

They thought, wouldn't it be awesome to get to watch Jimi Hendrix every night on tour?

That's what they wanted.

You said it was the seven or eight nights.

So presumably this was not one of the great marriages of...

No, so it sort of became quite quickly apparent that this was a mismatch.

Even though, as you say, Dan, the Monkees were real Hendrix fans and so would often sneak into the audience just so that they could watch him perform to an audience of Monkeys fans who were increasingly frustrated.

Well, apparently, one of the things that is said about the concert is that when he tried to get them to sing Foxy Lady, they would yell back Foxy Davey

after Davey Jones, one of the members of the Monkeys.

Yeah, it was not a solid artistic match.

But also, Hendrix had...

had some experience of doing this kind of thing because he had opened for Engelbert Humperding in interesting

the year before.

Because, you know, I guess, like, I guess at various points, you're sort of, you know, especially at that time where the kind of touring circuit was just starting, there just weren't that many musicians that fit into the category of popular music.

We hadn't yet managed to silo everything off by genre.

But I think the issue is almost that the monkeys audience was children and their parents.

And I think that, that is the thing that kind of

creates the issue.

And he wasn't a big fan.

Apparently, he referred to their music as dishwater.

So that's

not the best compliment, if true.

So he's looking down.

He disdains this audience so much who disdain him in return.

And then they basically shout each other off the stage, don't they?

He just eventually said, sod this.

These guys hate me.

I hate them.

Really?

Yeah.

Listen,

I'll say this from personal experience.

I know what it's like to have a bad gig.

I've had a few bad gigs in my time and I know what it looks like when an audience turns on a performer.

And let me tell you, it's not pretty when it's 30 people, but I imagine when it's 10,000 people.

Those wiggle crowds are tough, man.

They are hard to win over.

You know, you mentioned the wing cries Mary, which I agree is a really lovely song.

I didn't realize what that was about.

And it's just about lumpy mashed potato.

Is it?

Stop it.

Yeah, it's just about he had a fight with his girlfriend, Kathy Mary Etchingham.

Apparently, they had fights a lot.

And again, you always picture someone like Jimi Hendrix.

They've got to be having these really passionate fights about huge issues.

No, the thing they always fought about was her shit cooking.

And in 1967, he had a big bitch about her lumpy mashed potatoes.

She stormed out, smashed some plates.

And The Wind Cries Mary is the song he wrote that night.

It has the lyric about picking up broken pieces on the floor, him sweeping up the bits of plate there we go that's all it is

that's great niche i'm taking it you're a mega fan right from from everything you've said so far yeah i'm a but i'm a i'm a big jimi hendrix fan so me did the first album i ever bought was a jimi hendrix album which was great that's a that's a great first album to have bought the first single was bewitched so i sort of

wow it's a mixed grill

monkeys kind of influence there yeah yeah

but the thing i love and the thing i never knew and i find this really interesting because it's sort of my other area of interest, is that he was a paratrooper.

He was signed into the U.S.

Army, the 101st Airborne Division of the U.S.

Army, because there was a minor misdemeanor and the judge said, well, you've got to join the Army if you want to avoid prison.

So theoretically, if the TV series Band of Brothers had been set not in 1944, but in the early 60s,

Jimi Hendrix could have been a character

in that series.

A fantasy world you can both inhabit.

You know, the plot line to that would then involve the truth, which is that he then pretends to be gay to get out of it.

Yes.

Dishonourably discharged, yeah.

But there's an ultra-comic subplot in Band of Brothers, which gets a bit heavy at times.

Here's the thing that I was surprised about with Jimi Hendrix.

He's obviously the epitome of cool, of psychedelia of that whole period.

But when you read into him, actually quite sort of a mundane, boring character.

You love playing risk.

Graham Nash of Crosby Stills and Nash said that he was amazing at risk, particularly when he was on LSD.

That's his military experience coming in.

It is.

No, I wouldn't go that way.

Yeah.

Straight up there, if I were you.

But he was also a massive fan of Coronation Street.

Like a huge fan.

Yeah, so according to his girlfriend who you mentioned, Anna, Kathy.

Kathy, yeah.

Yeah.

She says that he just absolutely binged Coronation Street.

And there's a theory that the theme tune found its way into one of his songs.

And if you listen, and I've had a listen just before we came on on Axis Boulder's Love, there is a song called Third Stone from the Sun.

Have a listen, 42 seconds into it, there's a little riff, and no question it is Corey.

It is Coronation Street.

It's amazing.

Fantastic.

All of these amazing artists, like they do have the reputation for the drink.

There was lots of sex and drugs and rock and roll in Hendrix's life, but also they just have to work incredibly hard for years.

Like Hendrix just did hundreds of hours of recordings, all of this.

You know, like he worked so hard all the way through.

And did also they were they he was living in England in the kind of era of what was it been two television channels or three television channels?

Like he was not spoiled for choice.

So he's like, well, I guess Corey's on.

I've got another Corey link, I think, because I read that he didn't like anyone seeing him with his hair curlers in.

when his hair was being got ready.

No, but that's a Cory thing, isn't it?

They've always got their curlers in.

It's a tenuous link, but we'll accept it.

I think he was a bit paranoid about his coolness status because I read, and I think I verified this.

Maybe you'll know, Nish, but in the song If Six Was Nine, there's a bit where he plays the recorder and he bought it apparently off a street vendor as kind of a joke, and he plays the recorder at the end.

It's a weird sound.

There's often chat online saying, What's that weird instrument at the end?

But it's listed on the original album.

It's credited as flute.

It's credited as a flute.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah.

Apparently, he was embarrassed.

He didn't want to go down.

embarrassed about playing it.

The problem with it is that as soon as you hear it, you go, that's a fucking recorder.

But that, like,

it doesn't even vaguely sound like a flute.

Oh, Jimmy.

What's he playing?

Is it London's Burning that comes in just over the top?

Okay, Nish, have you heard the Morgan Freeman thing?

What?

No.

It's a theory that...

Hendrix didn't die in 1970.

He faked his own death, and since then he's been living as Morgan Freeman.

What?

It's a big theory online, yeah.

Okay.

Freeman owns a blues bar in Mississippi.

He loves the music of the blues.

Spooky.

They don't look completely dissimilar.

And no one's ever seen Morgan Freeman young.

Well, Morgan Freeman's first film credit was in 1964, which is six years before Hendrix died.

But if Hendrix had been doing the groundwork, he could have created the character and just been slowly starring in movies throughout the 60s.

I mean, it's a pretty

good.

Maybe Morgan Freeman is.

You know, when Bowie became Ziggy Stardust, sort of exclusively in real life for a period?

Maybe Morgan Freeman is his Ziggy, but he just hasn't broken out of character yet.

He's just become too immersed.

Hey, here's a cool thing that connects Jimmy to the world of British comedy.

The cover of Axis Boulder's Love, you might remember it.

It's a very,

it has Hindu gods in the background and very colorful.

That was designed by Roger Law, who created Spitting Image and all the

Spitting Image.

Yeah.

That's great.

Oh my God, that's so good.

Are you guys familiar with Cynthia Plastercaster?

Oh, yes.

No.

How familiar?

Can you explain

what he did?

Well, I believe Cynthia Plastercaster used to make plastercasts of the genitals of famous people in the 60s.

That is correct, except the thing is, everyone always says that.

When you look at the list of people she made them for, I think most famous people said, I'd rather you didn't make a plaster cast of my penis yeah okay

someone making a plaster cast of your penis well yes but jimmy didn't he's got the whole plaster cast isn't that an amazing thing to do yeah to just say to this random weird lady kind of groupy yeah i'll shove my erect penis into your plaster no one wants flaccid plaster cast you're right you're right

and there's no details on how it was made erect whether it was a little bit like when you'd give a sperm donation i don't know if they send you into a room with a bunch of magazines There was a heavy inference that she was part of the

there were no, there was no magazine in the waiting room.

She was the magazine, exactly.

She was the magazine.

Yes, yes.

Well, where is this plastercast now?

It's in the Iceland Phallological Museum, actually.

Is it really?

Yeah, I think so.

Wow.

Have you seen it in this?

I have not either.

Not her bigger fan, then.

My Hendrix fandom has not, it uh has not got extended

to going

to visit the plastercast of his pedas.

Listen, if I'm in the area, of course I'm taking a look at it.

Of course I'm taking a look at it.

Have I seen it on Google Images?

Yes.

But that's not less.

Move on.

Move on.

Is it my phone wallpaper?

Yes.

Move on.

All right, look, we need to wrap up.

Nish, you're going to be in Edinburgh, right?

Yes, I'm going to be at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival, and I am very excited about it.

And this is not me stalling for time whilst I Google what time my show is.

My show, which I know the time and location of, is at 10 past five in the afternoon at the Assembly Theatre in George Square.

Do come along.

I will be there.

I cannot deliver performance dynamics on a level of Jimi Hendrix, but what I can promise is I will be there on time.

What a sell.

Okay, that's it.

That is all of our guest facts.

Come back again next week because we got another show with four more comedians who are all going to be going up to the Edinburgh fringe this year.

So we'll see you then.

Goodbye.