593: No Such Thing As A Barney The Dinosaur In Westminster Abbey

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Hi, everybody.

It's Andy and James here from No Such Thing as a Fish.

Hi, your favourite too.

But yes.

Now we're here with a little top-of-show announcement because we've got some secret, juicy gossip for you.

We sure have.

And that gossip is that we are going to be doing some live shows.

You didn't hear it from us.

But if you go...

to King's Place in London on the 5th and 6th of September, you can see not one, but two No Such Thing as official a live shows.

Dan and Anna will also be there for clarity.

Anna will not be there for clarity.

Yeah, sorry.

Yeah.

Dan will be.

And some very, very special guests.

Now, we have already boxed one of these special guests, and I promise you, if I mentioned the name of that person right now, we would sell out in seconds.

That's right.

And if it does sell out, there are streaming tickets available too.

You can watch the show live, see what it's like when we're not rigorously and scrupulously edited.

Hear all the stuff we say that really should be edited out by getting a streaming ticket.

And where do you get those tickets for, Mandeen?

I think if they just go to our website, there'll be a link.

No such thing as a fish.com.

Excellent.

Well, do that right now.

But in the meantime, it's time to say, on with the podcast.

On with the show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with James Harkin, Andrew Hunter-Murray, and Anna Tushinski.

And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days, and in no particular order, here we go.

Starting with fact number one, and that is my fact.

My fact this week is that before he was buried, the poet Dylan Thomas was used as a poker table.

That doesn't feel very practical.

No.

The chicks are going to go everywhere.

Yeah.

And I imagine as a poet, you're wearing a lot of ruffles, maybe a cravat.

You know, you're not going to be a smooth table.

No.

Okay, so

it's not his body that was physically used as the poker table.

Dylan Thomas, as a bit of backstory, had been in America and he died on the 9th of November 1953.

Let's get right to to the

surface.

Was he born before he died?

I need to know all the context, Dan.

So yeah, it's really unfortunate.

He was 39 years old.

He was a big drinker.

There's a bit of mystery about what actually caused his death, but there we have it, the facts.

He dies November 1953.

His wife, Caitlin, decides she doesn't want him to be buried in America.

She wants to bring him back home to Wales, his home country.

And so she puts him on a ship and he's in the hold.

And one night she's a bit disruptive upstairs and she gets sent downstairs.

And it just so happens happens that she's bunking up very near to his coffin and she notices that all the sailors gather around the coffin and use it as the poker table.

And she thought, he would have loved this.

Yeah.

So was it not obviously a coffin?

I think it might have been.

They might not have cared.

That's quite macabre.

I would have tried to find another table or just a packing crate or something.

Would you?

I would have gone out my way to find the coffin.

Yeah.

If you feel there's a coffin on board.

I genuinely think when I go, if I could organise it that my mates had a poker game on my coffin and they didn't mind, then I'd be down for that.

It would be more golf for you, though, wouldn't it?

And it's hard to play in a coffin, right?

You could be the last hole.

The 19th hole.

I'm hoping that I'm laid down face up, actually.

Apparently, like you said, there was some ruckus with Caitlin.

I read that she was in a cabin with, and I quote, some sort of glamour queen that she really didn't like.

And so she deliberately caused a ruckus so that she would get kicked out of that cabin.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've having now read up about Caitlin, I wonder if that's true or if she was just generally causing ruckus, because that was the thing about them.

They were sort of described as the prototype Sid and Nancy of the sex pistols.

They were a couple that were destructive.

They'd get huge fights.

They would get drunk everywhere they went.

But what's crazy is that when Caitlin got back, she went on a pub crawl with the person who picked her up.

And Dylan was just left in the car park in the the coffin while they were getting pissed along the way and all the pubs towards where his home was going to be.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Did you find the claim that he was buried in a banana-shaped grave?

No.

Did we?

No.

Okay, so we should say.

Also, most famous Welsh poet, arguably, I'd say, ever.

For me, he is.

I mean,

he's barred territory.

If someone asked me to name a Welsh poet, he would be the local girl.

Exactly.

Exactly.

And he certainly was barred from most of his local poets.

Well, there is a claim, I read, that the gravedigger was deaf and mute, and he only knew that he was burying a man whose favourite fruit was the banana.

So in tribute, he originally dug a banana-shaped grave before being told off and told a correcter.

Now, I just think if you're a professional gravedigger, you know that you very rarely get a banana-shaped coffin.

Yeah.

Do we know that his favorite fruit was banana?

Do you know?

The original thing is so untrue that I haven't even sourced that yet.

I thought deaf and mute sounds sounds like a welsh name i thought that was the name of it

so his death dan you said that there was some weird things about that yeah there was the idea that he drank so much that the night before he went into a coma which then led to him going to hospital and eventually dying he claimed to have drunk 18 whiskies uh say the line say the line

Supposedly his last words were, I've just drunk 18 straight whiskeys.

I think that's a record or something like that.

That's a great line.

Yeah.

But that's not true, is it?

He definitely said things after that.

I think he did say that, actually, in fairness, but it was the day before.

And then the next day, he did talk to people and said different things.

He said, God, go for a banana right now.

So it was the doctor's fault, right?

So, yeah, so he was sedated with some morphine and then he went into a coma.

And he had pneumonia, which hadn't been diagnosed, and that was the problem with the morphine.

But this is the interesting thing.

I think it's actually Dylan Thomas's fault because he he did make that joke about having had all these whiskeys, right?

And then, I believe, his friend who'd overheard that, when he was really ill, said to the doctor, oh, well, he told me yesterday he'd had 18 straight whiskeys.

So the doctor very naturally assumes alcohol poisoning and then gives him the morphine, which puts him into the coma, which kills him.

So actually, Dylan Thomas died of his own joke, as well as medical misdiagnosis and all of that.

But basically, it's because his friend said, oh, yeah, well, this is what he was saying.

Well, it's possible he wasn't joking, though, because they went and interviewed the bartender who was serving drinks at night.

And he said he didn't drink 18, absolutely not, but someone pointed out that a shot in America versus a shot back home is three times the amount.

So they think in his incredibly drunken state, Dylan Thomas was doing math

and worked out how many that would have been back home, which was 18.

In fairness, the math was only three times six.

But once you've had, once you've had 18 whiskeys.

He actually wasn't good at taking his drink.

He's got this reputation for being such a heavy drinker.

But I think people who knew him said actually he was kind of a lightweight.

So maybe he just seemed pissed a lot.

He had a famous sort of relationship slash

what's an enemyship?

Frenemy.

He was sort of a frenemy, but without the fruit a bit, with Kingsley Amis, who only met him once, but used to write really awful things about his poetry.

Okay.

And Amos met him in 1951 and he said he was an outstandingly unpleasant man who cheated and stole from his friends and peed on their carpets.

And he boozed a lot because it fitted his image as a poet poet rather than out of any thirst or need.

I think people, quite a lot of people, didn't really like him very much, even his friends.

No, it's a shame if you like his poetry to read up on him because it makes him quite unlikable, doesn't it?

I think he considered himself to be a poet, which meant he didn't need to get a proper job.

He could just sort of dilettantishly turn up at people's houses and sleep on the sofas and urinate on their carpets, perhaps.

I don't know.

But yeah, like one of his really good friends, Norman Cameron, he wrote, who invited him in?

what was he doing here that insolent little ruffian that crapulous lout when he quitted a sofa he left behind a smear oh dear if that's what his friends thought of him what of his enemies right but his fans kind of loved it right they loved this image of a drunken poet who was living up to that romantic idea that they're sitting in a shed with a glass of whiskey writing these incredible lines and in his final eight years you know he died 39 as i said final eight years he wrote six poems he spent basically the last period of his life going on tours and talking and reading out his poems.

He became an orator as opposed to a writer.

And people would go because it was quite rock and roll.

Is Dylan Thomas going to swear at someone in the crowd?

Is he going to drunkenly fall off the stage and pass out?

Is he going to leave a smear on the sofa?

The curtain comes up.

That's a sofa on the stage.

You get it, Dylan.

But he was kind of, you know, people were into that.

I think he was less hard-living in lots of ways.

So he lived for a while in a place called Lan,

and the Thomas family GP, the doctor, wrote, he didn't do any womanising.

He was pretty sober.

He was very respectful.

He started the day by helping his dad with the Times crossword every morning.

Apparently, his capacity for drink, I'm quoting now, was very limited compared with the average hearty.

He couldn't drink very much.

Three or four pints was his absolute limit.

But then, of his wife Caitlin, the doctor wrote, Caitlin is a nymphomaniac and a first-class bitch.

Was that a medical diagnosis back then?

She does seem a tough character.

But I really didn't know the thing I found most unbelievable about him is you say that he only wrote six poems or whatever in his last seven years.

Really, he wrote all of his best poetry, pretty much everyone agrees, by the time he was 19.

Isn't that insane?

I was a child when I was 19.

I was like, you're thinking such immature stuff.

And that's why it's kind of nonsense.

I used to love him when I was a teenager because I thought, well, this must mean something amazing.

But it was really heartening to read all of these reviewers write about him and say, the words are beautiful, which is what's so fun about reading him, but no one knows what he's on about.

He also, because we were calling him a poet, but he also wrote some pretty seminal other pieces.

Like he wrote Under Milkwood, which was a play which is still sort of.

People do, don't they?

Who did you play?

Sorry, no, as in for my GCSE English, I had to learn it.

Okay, right.

Yeah, nice.

You played a tree, admit it.

You're one of the trees.

But there's a lot of milk under me.

You guys know AJP Taylor?

I only know the name.

He was a really famous 20th century historian, like mega famous, in a time when historians were rock stars.

Anyway, Dylan Thomas befriended his wife, Margaret.

Euphemism?

Well,

she definitely had the hots for him.

And Dylan Thomas went to stay on the sofa and did a lot of, like, he would stay for a month.

And AJP Taylor liked to keep a barrel of beer in the house.

That was just his nice thing.

But he hated having Dylan Thomas to stay because he would drink supposedly 15 pints a day.

And he'd constantly have to be replacing his barrel.

And Taylor's wife, Margaret, fell absolutely besotted with Dylan Thomas.

She spent all her money on him.

She wrote him erotic letters.

She persuaded AJP Taylor to buy a house for £2,000 for Dylan Thomas.

And Taylor said, okay, fine, if you stop giving him money, which she did not.

And then she bought him another house.

I mean,

he does sound like a really annoying guy to have to stay.

I read one anecdote about him.

He went out drinking with novelist Philip Lindsay and got his penis stuck in a honey pot.

We need a two-tail.

The great thing about this, this is in Andrew Lysett's biography, and it's kind of mostly there, not really anywhere else.

But it was from people who were there who said it happened.

But no one knows why he did that.

No.

was it a honey trap

they said on the same occasion he pushed a shirt button up his nose and couldn't get it out

you go into the a and e and you're like yeah it's this button thing can you get the button thing out please uh sir there appears to be something no no just the button

i actually having just said winny the poo i only know winnie the poo sized honey pots do they come smaller wait does winnie the poo have massive honeypots yeah his head gets stuck in them oh yeah maybe well maybe dylan thomas was very well endowed and that's what kept the women falling the shape of a honeypot is it expands as it gets towards the base as it were it's not like a honey jar i could understand him getting his penis stuck in a honey jar i was imagining a honey jar

you know when you go to a travel lodge and you get those tiny little jars of honey

we're gonna have to ask you to leave the breakfast buffet

Everyone's got their own sized honeypot.

Yeah, it's full of tantalizing details, that biography.

It's amazing because he's spoken to everyone who ever knew him.

But people just give memories without elaboration.

So there's those two.

There's on one occasion, he managed to stab himself in the eye while eating a plate of meatballs.

No, no further details.

How do you do that?

How do you do that?

And then someone else said, there was a particular period where he had to deal with his rubber fetishism.

No more honour.

That's it.

That's all we got.

What do we do with rubber?

Now,

he is a very important poet.

He is part of the Poet's Corner in Westminster Abbey, which is reserved for some of the greats.

It's Shakespeare and so on.

He originally wasn't in there.

And it all comes down to Jimmy Carter, President Jimmy Carter, who lobbied for him to be in there.

Why?

He loves him to the point where he went to certain bits of Wales just to be around the area that Dylan Thomas would have been in.

Even wrote a poem called A President Expresses Concern on a Visit to Westminster Abbey.

by Jimmy Carter.

No way.

Yeah.

That makes me like Dylan Thomas again, having just gone off him.

Jimmy Carter liked him.

Yeah, because you're a massive Carter fan, yeah.

Yeah, what a weird presidential.

Like, is that what happened?

He campaigned a bit harder to get himself re-elected.

Exactly.

Well, it happened in 82, so maybe he worked on it post-presidency, but it was on that trip that he said,

I can imagine Donald Trump at the moment is trying to get Barney, the big purple dinosaur in Westminster Abbey.

We'll do it, we'll do it.

Lahn, this place where he lived,

his local pub was a place called Brown's Hotel.

It was bought recently by guess who?

The game.

The board makers.

Sorry.

Okay, give us a clue.

What, the TV show?

Why in a two-runny sky?

No,

what was Dylan Thomas?

He was a man behaving badly.

Oh, is it Martin Clunes?

It was Neil Morrissey.

Another man behaving badly bought bought his local.

Really?

And Dylan Thomas was a Man Behaving Badly.

And Neil Morrissey for Internationalist was about 30 years ago in a setcom called Man Behaving Badly.

Yeah, that's a great fact.

That's a great fact.

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Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Andy.

My fact is that six out of ten lakes are in Canada.

That's amazing.

Out of all the lakes in the world,

60% are in Canada.

It's big, Canada.

It is big, but it's not 60% of the world's landmass.

It's a disproportionate number of lakes.

So if you wake up after a big old Dylan Thomas-style bender

and you look and there's a lake there, you're more likely than not in Canada.

That's right.

That's right.

Do we know how many and why?

We do.

900,000 and geology.

is the short

conference.

No, I got this on a great substitute by a guy called Thomas Puello.

And basically, it's at the bottom you've got the Great Lakes, sort of celebrity lakes.

Yeah.

And then there's this line stretching across the country above which it's just monstrously full of lakes.

Just lakes everywhere.

Like, throw a brick.

And it's because there's a region near the coast, further up, near the coastal mountains, which is lower because the mountains kind of depress the land around them with their land mass.

Didn't know mountains did that.

And everywhere else in the world, or most other places, these depressions, they turn into river valleys.

Water flows along them, right?

But Canada is very far north, so it rains less, so there's less water.

And it's also to do with the ice sheets that dug these huge holes in the ground, and that leads to lakes when the ice retreats.

Do you know what I mean?

You've got basically lake-shaped masses everywhere.

Yeah, that's it was the Laurentide ice sheet, wasn't it?

That also formed Niagara Falls and the Great Lakes.

So it was a biggie.

And it might also have given us Noah's Ark.

So apparently the collapse of that ice sheet caused the flooding of the Gibraltar, Straits of Gibraltar, loads of water going into the Mediterranean Sea, huge floods everywhere about 8,000 years ago.

And maybe all the myths that we have about floods in all different cultures have flood myths and maybe due to that collapse.

Love it.

That's amazing.

It's crazy.

So 900,000 lakes.

in Canada, you're saying, Andy.

Manitoba is an area that has 100,000 of those lakes.

And only 10,000 of those lakes have been named as of 2017.

The number will have gone up, but they're trying to give names to every single lake that's out there.

Can we campaign?

Well, here's the thing: to have a lake named after us.

Yeah.

Doesn't work like that.

Fish Lake.

Yeah.

Damn.

Well, this is a problem that there's not a big group that names the lakes.

There's one main guy, and then he's got a few assistants.

What?

Yeah.

Well, that's why they haven't gone around to naming them.

He's been very slow.

He'll name like seven a year.

And And that's,

but that's gone up now with the assistant.

He's as slow as Dylan Thomas writing poetry.

Is this guy just going around doing rock star shows and saying, I name lakes?

Yeah, exactly.

The thing he says is he gets a lot of calls on Valentine's Day with people saying, can I, in a romantic gesture, name this lake after my partner or girlfriend or boyfriend or whatever?

And he says, no, it doesn't work like that.

Is he stressed that all these lakes don't have names or is he relaxed about it?

He's relaxed.

He's taking his time.

What they're doing is basically naming it after fallen soldiers from World War II and World War I.

And it's important work because if you happen to have an accident at a lake, how do you find it?

If there's no name, if it's important work, maybe he should be trying to name more than seven every year.

He has, there was one year where they named 2,000.

Like, it's with it, because he got assistance in, assistance.

Famous can't be choosers.

I think if I say, can you name your lake Polina?

He shouldn't be saying, no, I have to do it after this other thing instead.

I think he should be accepting these names because he needs 20,000 of them.

He needs a lot of, he needs a lot.

And in fact, there's only been one exception so far, one living person uh when an olympic gold medalist in hockey uh was given a lake name he sort of got put ahead of all the fallen soldiers they'll do anything for hockey players the canadians won't they

i think he needs to be sacked sorry

do you know what is do you know what the most common lake name in the united states of america is oh oh is it is it guessable Maybe.

Is it Big Lake or Deep Lake?

No, but you're getting there.

It's very descriptive.

Round.

Round lake, yeah.

Wet lake.

That's the closest.

It's mud lake.

Really, really mud lake.

Yeah, there are 900 mud lakes in America, but they're endangered, really, because they're all getting renamed.

So Michigan, for instance, had 300 mud lakes, but 71 of them have been changed in the last few years.

Why are they changing them?

Is it not politically correct?

Well, one reason that you want to, like, mud lake isn't very nice, but number two, like Dan said, you need to be able to tell exactly where something is.

So, if every, if you've got 700 mud lakes and you say, I've injured myself next to mud lake, what are they going to do?

Yeah, you're right.

There are reports, and again, this is at the level of Dylan Thomas was buried in a banana shape.

Jesus.

Well, there's a lake in Canada called Lake Minnewanka, but that is true.

Some reports say it's the smallest lake in Canada, and it appears not to be.

I think there are some smaller.

But it is home to a drowned village, which is called Miniwanka Landing.

Cool.

Yeah.

That was it named after someone who drove a mini.

It was when Tom Cruise lands his plane.

That's why he radios into the control tower.

All this depends on how you define a lake, right?

Yeah.

Because there's a thing called Lagos, L-A-G-O-S, which is like a research, it's like the Wikipedia of Lakes, where you go to if you want to know anything about lakes in North America.

But they define a lake as something that is one hectare in area, surface area.

So that's about two football fields.

But if you were to count lakes that are like one hectare, so half that size, then the number of lakes in Canada goes up to 3.5 million.

Oh, my goodness.

That's getting stupid.

That's basically a puddle.

That guy at the naming office is going to be

probably still relaxed.

We've got time.

And the other scientific definition of a lake is it needs to have an aphotic zone.

So that's an area deep enough where plants can't grow because they don't get enough light.

That's supposed to be the level between a pond and a lake.

there's interestingly on the definition of a lake there's also the bigness um of lakes so lake superior um one of the great lakes and the great lakes are all shared between the us and canada um except except one lake michigan lake superior is the largest lake on earth but only if you don't count the caspian sea which is about five times bigger and it's really interesting the caspian sea controversy because caspian sea is technically a lake i believe as in it's not connected to the sea but it has higher salinity than almost any other lake.

So it's a huge political debate between Azerbaijan, Iran, Kazakhstan, Russia, Turkmenistan, which all border this lake/slash sea.

Because if it's a lake, you split it equally.

So that's why all the great lakes are split equally

between US and Canada.

And it's hugely important because it's got massive natural resources.

It's got loads and loads of oil deposits in it and mineral deposits.

And so Iran, which has a very short coast on the Caspian, is saying, no, it's definitely a lake.

Definitely a lake, because I want to to split it equally with the rest of you.

Whereas if it's the seashore, you own a distance away from the seashore.

Depending on your length of coastline.

Exactly.

So then, you know, Russia's saying, or Kazakhstan, which has a huge coastline, is saying, this is bullshit.

You can't take a fifth of the oil in it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Wow.

So which side do you fall on?

And when would we get a resolution to

know that?

Honestly, Tan, I think they got a few other things to iron out in that region.

There was a massive meeting in 2018 called the Convention on the Legal Status of the Caspian Sea, where all the countries met and they were there for weeks and they concluded it's neither a lake nor a sea.

Oh, great.

It's a pond.

Here's a lake.

This is also in the United States of America.

It's called Crater Lake.

And the Kalmath people who live around it haven't looked at it for more than 7,000 years.

No.

How close do they live?

They don't know.

Do they fall in?

No, they don't.

They don't fall in.

So it's basically

a taboo.

Wow.

And it's, we think, down to an eruption that happened 7,700 years ago.

And then they preserved these stories of this myth that's happened.

And that would be 300 generations of word of mouth have kept this story going.

They don't look at the lake.

They still don't look at the lake, yeah.

What if you accidentally look at the lake?

Another eruption, probably.

Someone must have done it.

No one's done it.

We don't know.

Well, we'd know.

We would know.

We would know, yeah.

Wow.

That's crazy.

Some lakes swing from side to side.

Like a banana.

They're called banana lakes.

No, they're not.

This is amazing, though.

There are these things called seiches.

And the most famous one is in Lake Erie, which is one of the Great Lakes.

But basically, it happens if there's a really strong wind that's going in one direction on a lake and it keeps pushing the water up to one end.

And then the wind suddenly stops then the water you can imagine like in a bath swings backwards and it does extraordinary things like in 2008 there were 16 feet high waves uh in Lake Erie that flooded um it's Buffalo I think in New York that always gets flooded in 1844 there was a 22 foot high seiche wave which caused this flood in Buffalo which destroyed the town completely just from this swinging lake crazy 78 people died it stopped the Niagara Falls from flowing because it dammed it up because, like, the force of all the water pushed the ice at the top of Niagara Falls and stopped it flowing.

What?

Just from this swinging lake, isn't that cool?

That's very cool.

Not the deaths, but yeah, the other stuff.

That was a long time ago.

Okay.

Yeah.

Canada is so big that the southernmost point of Canada is closer to Brazil than it is to the northernmost point of Canada.

I don't believe you.

Well,

you've got to.

Okay, maths.

How do we resolve this then?

We need a conference.

I mean, yeah, only because I've seen maps.

I mean, that's bonker.

It's about

there's not much in it.

It's about 10 kilometers in it, but it's about...

It's 10 kilometers in it.

Yeah, so

the southernmost point of Canada to northernmost point of Canada is 4,620 kilometers.

Right.

To Brazil from the southernmost point of Canada, it's 4,630.

Yeah.

That's like how my house in Margate is closer to Belgium than it is to London.

Yeah.

That's wild.

And it takes you hours and hours and hours to get here every day.

I should stop going via Belgium.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is James.

Okay, my fact this week is that at one Spanish football stadium, they will stop you from eating sunflower seeds, but they won't stop you from smoking.

That is so weird.

Is it?

Are you allowed to smoke sunflower seeds, life hack?

Oh, good thinking.

Yeah, in a robot.

Actually, you're not really supposed to smoke,

but they don't enforce that ban.

But they are enforcing their ban on sunflower seeds.

And that's because if you go to Spanish football games, you will often bring sunflower seeds with you as a snack.

They're called pipas.

And this team called El Che has decided to ban them because people keep you kind of, you crack them open and eat the seeds inside and then you throw the shells away.

And the shells, they clog the drains, they clog the pipes, they rot and deteriorate the seats.

The pigeons come, rats come,

and they're having to basically redo the entire stadium.

And part of the reason is because these sunflower seeds are just all over the place, and they're rotting, and they're making everything minging.

Yeah, there's too many for them to clean up.

So you just, as you arrive, you're just cracking shells underneath your foot, going to your seats.

It's uh, it's pretty amazing, such a tiny thing causing such chaos.

This was in the Times that I read this, and one of the fans said this is the best thing they could have done, that now they just have to enforce the ban on smoking.

Yeah, yeah, is it Spain-wide that these things are enjoyed?

It's common throughout Spain, yeah.

Really interesting because it's quite a hippie-ish, quite healthy thing.

I imagine, like, oh, I'm just eating some sunflower.

This is the really salty.

Oh, okay, they're very salty.

This is the thing that I discovered: it's this whole global culture that we do not have in Britain of sunflower seeds being such a popular snack.

And they're all these countries.

So Spain is one of them where they're really popular.

Across Eastern Europe, Eastern European listeners, Brighton, confirm how many sunflower seeds you eat a day.

China, the Middle East, Russia, they're like this big deal snack.

And so I think in China, you have them in the shells, and it's this great meditative experience.

The one girl was saying that you put it in your mouth, you have to get the sunflower seed out of the shell.

You kind of do it with your teeth.

Swallow it.

Yeah.

So the little grey thing that I get when I buy buy a packet of sunflower seeds is not a sunflower seed.

It's actually, that's the kernel.

Yeah, it's a kernel.

A de-hulled kernel.

Whereas people here are eating the naked seeds, which are the black and white striped

that are inside.

Yeah.

That is a sunflower seed.

Yeah.

And it's pretty amazing.

I went to the National Gallery the other day to look specifically at Van Gogh's sunflowers, right?

Let's research with this fact.

No, it's completely separate.

I was just, I thought, God, it's around the corner.

Why have I not been there?

And I went, stood, and just stared.

And each flower, there's 11 flowers, they contain about 2,000, between one and 2,000 seeds.

That would have been edible, you know, what was in the pot.

I find that fascinating.

I've never thought about it in that way before.

No, me neither.

If you're really hungry and you've got a sunflower growing in your kitchen, scrape off the top.

If it's reached ripeness, get some seeds.

There's like a TikTok trend at the moment where people are like roasting entire sunflower heads and eating them.

Oh, really?

I mean, it's just classic TikTok.

Everyone's a food expert until until you actually try what you're eating, and then it's disgusting.

Well, people do seem to rave about them.

And I was reading in China, the way they harvest them is really cool.

So people go through with big machetes or massive pairs of scissors and they chop the heads off all the

scissors, whatever you do.

Like you're opening a department store.

Yeah, exactly.

A lot of ribbons to cut.

They chop the heads off each individual sunflower, but then they pick up the heads, they spin them upside down, and they plonk them back on top of the stalk and they leave them there for another week to dry.

And that's because it saves having to dry them in a certain space so you'll sometimes go to a

sunflower field in China and be like all the flowers are upside down yeah they've all been decapitated they've all been decapitated and had their heads put on upside down

psycho so I should just say El Che by the way um the football team they're from Alicante uh they were promoted to La Liga last season and I read as much as I could about them there's not a great deal of interest in stuff apart from their kit man their head kit man is called Pepito, whose name is Spanish for pumpkin seed.

Lovely.

It's not quite right, is it?

You haven't quite got the nomination.

Almost got it.

I saw his name and I was like, that really looks like it means sunflower seed.

But unfortunately, no, Kipaz is the sunflower seed, which also means blowjobs in Greek.

Golly.

Well, that

won't.

Surely that won't have led to any confusion.

A load of Spanish football fans turn up at Anathonikos.

You've got to crack it open with your teeth.

They are known, these seeds, as Spain's football foreplay.

I don't know if you came across that phrase.

But what is Britain's football foreplay?

Who does go to football?

Pies.

Nice pie.

That's just foreplay in general, isn't it?

A nice steak and kidney pie.

Scotch pies, they're called.

What is a scotch pie?

Scotch pie is

probably if you go to football in the south of England, you don't really get this stuff, but certainly in the north of of England, they're kind of made of pastry, like water pastry, and they usually have mutton in them, lots of potato, not so much meat, and they're absolutely delicious.

Yeah.

Yum.

And they were supposedly despised by the Scottish Church because they were considered a sumptuous meal and very similar to English pies.

So the Scottish Church tried to ban Scotch pies for a while, but they never managed.

I would say keep your beaks out, guys.

I just think that's not their jurisdiction.

Look, the church tends to get involved in lots of different things, doesn't it?

Historically, especially the Scottish church.

I just think that's a bit like Jimmy Carter getting involved in Dylan Thomas's

posthumous reputation.

I just think, come on, prioritise

kirks to run.

Actually, it was because of the church, I think, that sunflower seeds came to be.

Well, they did, unless you're saying that God made them.

Exactly.

Sorry, yeah, that we started eating sunflower seeds

because...

So so they were huge in Russia first.

Russia was like a hundred years ahead of the rest of us, mainly in terms of turning them into oil, which is where it's so valuable.

And it was basically because during any kind of fast, Christian fasting or Lent or anything like that in Russia, then any kind of vegetable oils were banned.

And then Peter the Great or his minions sort of discovered that you could get oil from sunflower seeds.

It was Peter the Great when he, you know, he did his European tour.

He brought them back to Sydney.

He saw them in like the Netherlands or something and brought them back.

He did, yes.

And then some peasant in Russia in the 19th century,

like a just working in the fields peasant, built a machine to get oil out of them.

And because they were new oil, the church hadn't managed to create in its list the name sunflower oil.

And so everyone just drenched their food with sunflower oil during Lent.

And that was why it was so popular.

And now Ukraine and Russia is by far the biggest producers of sunflower oil in the world.

Like by a billion.

I did that.

It's late.

More than half the global production of it was there.

And that's why Ukraine, like the sunflower, is a symbol of Ukraine.

I don't know that.

Well, it was used as well for mopping up basically a lot of the radioactive waste during the Chernobyl disaster.

Was it?

Yeah, so the stems, they noticed that when they put them into bodies of water, it would take up a lot of the radioactive elements and then they could bring it away and then they could discard it in a better way.

But so sunflowers are planted largely around nuclear radioactive areas in Chernobyl and

a famous pop culture person who eats sunflower seeds.

Okay.

Cardi B.

Yeah?

Good shout.

Someone that you guys have a character that you guys.

Alex Snoopy.

A character.

A fictional character.

Yeah, 1990s.

1990s.

Fictional character.

The Fresh Prince of Belair.

Very good.

No.

Dennis the Menace.

No.

Ooh, yeah, cartoon or real?

Real.

Zach from Saved by the Belle.

Okay, Blobby.

Mr.

Blobby.

Blobby.

British or American?

American.

Okay, okay.

Narrow it down.

What are The Simpsons?

No, but one of the biggest shows of the 1990s.

Friends.

People are yelling this at home, not friends.

Something that Dan would like due to his other podcast.

A weird ecryptity thing.

Come on, guys.

The truth is out there.

Oh,

Fox Mulder loved sunflower seeds.

Fox Mulder.

He eats sunflower seeds all the way through it.

And he had to stop in the later series because, according to him, it's hard to act with sunflower seeds.

Yeah.

But it was the creator, Chris Carter, who would eat sunflower seeds and he kind of passed it on to the character.

Uh, but David D'Akovny, who played Mulder, wants people to know that he doesn't like sunflower seeds and he also does not wear ties, so fans are discouraged from sending him either

poor guy.

So he's forced to eat the sunflower seeds constantly and wear lots of ties as well.

Poor guy,

um, I mentioned Van Gogh earlier.

There's another very famous art piece which is called Sunflower Seeds.

Do you remember that?

Ai Weiwei, Ai Weiwei, 2011.

So this is extraordinary.

He handcrafted porcelain sunflower seeds with his team.

There was 1,600 people and they made 100 million of them.

It feels like he's the guy to solve the Canadian lake naming dilemma.

Like they can just bang through that.

If these 1,600 people...

I'm sure, you know, it's making a very important political point and stuff like that.

But it's a long time to be making tiny ceramic seeds as well i see you're thinking it's a bit of a waste of time i mean being a podcaster is a waste of time i'm fully i accept that

but i just think we've made a hundred million identical episodes of this show

but it has been useful i would say yes what's the point they weren't identical were they they were they were slightly i remember

between the episodes of the show which is nice i remember slight differences

well they put and so they they were first displayed at the toe bombing hall at the tate and if you if you've ever been there you know what that's like.

Yeah, where you get these huge exhibits that are really famous every year.

I went to that one, actually.

Did you get to walk on the seeds?

No, I didn't.

I didn't.

Because I could walk around on the seeds.

So to begin with, and it raised up about 10 centimetres off the ground.

That's how many seeds there were, the height that it reached to.

Only 10 centimetres.

Whoa, it's a big, it's a huge hall.

It's a massive hall.

Put it in a smaller room, have them up to your neck.

That's what I would have done.

Good idea.

That's exciting.

Now that's art.

So was the point he's making is that we're all different?

No, the point he was making, I believe, well, it was lots of different points, like much art, but I think a lot of it, and this is why the trampling was so important, and I remember being so disappointed, is about the oppression and repression of the Chinese state and all these people, these, you know, billions of people in China being treated just like one random identical sunflower to another, don't have your own.

And I think Chairman Mao used to say that the people of China were sunflower seeds.

And his idea is that, like, if you get all of these hundred million seeds together, then they make something very big and important.

But by themselves, they're kind of

oh, yeah, that's a different interpretation.

There you go.

I don't know.

Like, I like you, I went and was slightly disappointed that I wasn't allowed to walk on them.

And you weren't allowed to begin with, you were allowed to walk on them, and then health and safety because they thought little micro dust was coming through from all the crunching.

But I worked out that the equivalent sunflower seeds that he made that Van Gogh would have to paint

would be 50,000 flowers.

Okay, yeah, because it's about 2,000 seeds per head, right?

About 2,000.

I think that maths, right?

I was 18 whiskeys deep by the time I did that.

That's doable.

Baseball players also love sunflower seeds, apparently, in the USA.

There is this question of why baseball players are constantly chewing.

Because they are.

If you look at them in the dugout, they're always eating.

So there's one big theory is that the game is boring.

My daughter, when she gets barred, she always asks, can I have a snack?

Right.

The theory is that's what they're doing.

You know, they're sporting guys.

They will burn it off.

But basically, it's a dull game to watch and to participate in.

I really like lots of sports, but I do find it difficult to sit in a stadium through an entire baseball game.

Right, there we go.

I think there really is a divide in the world, which no other sport has, between people who understand why baseball is appealing and are obsessed with it, and friends obsessed, and the rest of us who think, oh,

but it sounds like all the players are on our side.

Well, they.

They know from the inside.

But they used to chew tobacco.

That's another theory why

they might chew sunflower seeds now because you don't chew tobacco anymore.

But chewing tobacco could give them some buzz.

And they had another big advantage.

When baseball players chew tobacco, they could slobber their juice onto the ball.

Interesting.

And Philip Thomas used to slather his juice onto the surface, didn't he?

If you slobbered on the ball, it would become darker.

And that would be harder for the batter to see.

So

it's a tricky, sneaky way of making a camouflage ball.

I understand it's against the rules to do that.

The rule was changed in 1920 to disallow ball defacing.

That was what it was defined as.

So maybe that's another reason for the rise of the sunflower seed, apart from the unbearable tedium of watching this game.

Okay, speaking of tedious American sports.

I mean, I absolutely love American football, but what snacks do you associate with American football?

Wieners.

Get your wieners.

Hot dogs.

Oh, that's the same as a wiener, isn't it?

So hot dogs, for me, I would more have hot dogs at a baseball game, probably.

Candy gloss.

Nachals.

Yeah, all these are good answers.

Caviar?

Caviar is correct.

From the Caspian Sea, the belugas.

No, it's, I think for me, it's chicken wings.

Okay.

If you're watching the Super Bowl, everyone in America basically eats chicken wings.

Right.

And this all came due to an accidental over order by a company in Buffalo.

They accidentally ordered a load of chicken wings and they didn't know what to do with them.

And so they came up with a new recipe, which was buffalo wings.

So you basically put chili sauce and butter together and it makes this sauce and they're absolutely delicious.

And this bar called Anchor Bay, they started making them.

And then a little bit later, the Buffalo Bills NFL team made it to the Super Bowl.

for three years in a row and everyone associated the Buffalo Bills team with Buffalo Wings and suddenly chicken wings became like the food for the Super Bowl.

So it's all a big mistake.

It's all down to the exact thing.

But 1.6 billion chicken wings are eaten on Super Bowl Sunday every year.

Jesus.

I think, because Americans get some shit sometimes from the rest of the world about certain elements of their culture.

But one of the greatest cultural things that exists in America, which I didn't really know that it was a thing, is tailgating.

Tailgating?

The tailgate.

Driving very close to the person in front of you.

Well, that's the only thing I know.

That's all we know it as.

But like basically at any NFL match in the parking lot,

then you'll have a tailgate party and there's hosts.

And I was asking my, yeah, well, my husband's lived in America and he was like, yeah, I mean, literally everyone does it at every NFL match.

I've been to a couple of NFL matches in America and I never got invited to this party.

I'm so sorry.

Interesting.

So wait, sorry, you go to the car park.

Yep.

And there are just people who are such big fans of the team that they cook up a massive feast.

They've made like a hundred burgers and pizzas for everyone and loads of beers and just just everyone has it.

They have a big party, but kind of anyone's invited.

So you go and it's called tailgating.

Well, almost anyone, so don't rub it in on that.

I was starving that day.

Driving around a completely empty town, weren't you, James?

All the restaurants were closed.

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Hey, I'm Eric Ripke, Showrunner of the Boys, here with my friend Sean Ryan, Showrunner of the Night Agent.

And on this episode of Creator to Creator, we will talk about the madness of making a TV show.

Listen to Creator to Creator wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, and it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is Anna.

My fact this week is that Singaporeans drink more than a bottle of scotch per person per month, which is twice as much as their nearest rivals.

Wow, how

say the children of Dylan Thomas?

I like the way you say rivals, like there's a big sort of international competition for who can drink the most scotch.

Poor old Latvia coming second, desperately trying to catch it.

Maybe second Latvia.

Latvia is second.

Really?

Yeah.

A bottle of scotch per person per month.

Isn't that insane?

That is a lot.

Latvia has their own.

What is it now?

I have some at home.

It's like schnappsy stuff that Latvians drink.

So, and they have balsam as well.

Balsam, yeah.

So, like, they're spreading themselves too thin, the Latvians.

You're right.

Give up, good cool.

Give up the balsam.

And having tasted the balsam, just give up the balsam.

And then you'll win.

Stick with the whiskey.

So, a bottle per person per month.

Or they buy a bottle of scotch per person per month.

And I think that's an important distinction because I struggle to really find the reason.

Because I like I've got a bottle of whiskey at home and I've been working on it pretty solidly for a couple of years now.

But I've got past the halfway mark.

But well done.

Is all this whiskey being drunk or is it that it's just being bought and stored?

Well, it's not clear.

So the stats are from the Scotch Whiskey Association,

which says that they export 12.76 bottles a year.

They have all the export figures.

In case you're wondering, domestically, in case you're wondering, the Scottish surely drink more.

73 million bottles are sold domestically in the UK each year.

So, even if every single UK bottle of whiskey was sold in Scotland, they'd only just be drinking as much whiskey as the Singaporeans.

And it's not

that Andy's having

through.

Working away on my famous grouse, yeah.

I've still got a bottle of whiskey in my house that I bought on my honeymoon which was 12 years ago really

is that for aging purposes no we only I only use it for whiskey sauce on Burns Night once a year

is it it's not unbelievably delicious whiskey is it that you're wasting on

it's pretty good oh really yeah

okay well we're not contributing to the English stats obviously but um it's weird I was looking it up Singaporeans very light drinkers they consume two liters of alcohol per person per year, which is about five times less than we do,

as Brits.

And it seems to be, when I was looking at like people talking about it, Singaporeans talking about it, it is about investment.

And a lot of them are buying up whiskey now.

It's become a trendy thing.

It's a pretty wealthy country.

Well, there's a lot of expats as well.

So lots of expats that skew the number of people and what what they drink.

If I go as a tourist to Singapore, because I know it's a whiskey hub, as in they've got lots of amazing whiskey from around the world and whiskey shops and things, and I buy a bottle there.

Does that count, do you think?

a judy free sich yeah i've never been except i think briefly to the airport once but it sounds like an amazing the airport is nice in paris and again i didn't go specifically to

go to the airport just went into changi couple of glasses of whiskey straight back out

half a glass of whiskey today i think that's a record

um but it's an amazingly weird place it's cool i've been yeah yeah

i went a lot as a kid

oh i suppose it's not it's not far from there so it's right at the bottom of Malaysia.

And it's much like Portsmouth in that it's an island, but it's separated by a very narrow strip of water from the rest of the mainland, as it were.

Portsmouth of the south.

It's the port of the south.

When you land in Singapore, there's a big banner that says, much like Portsmouth, welcome.

Here's another thing they drink there.

Yakult.

Oh, yeah.

So, you know, Yakult, that kind of little sort of yoghurty drink with probiotics in it.

Yeah.

Singapore is the only country in the world that sells different flavours of yakult.

Is it?

Interesting.

So, just a childhood thing: Yakult was massive in my childhood in Hong Kong, but I can't picture another flavour other than the best.

Honestly, they only do it in Singapore.

Wow.

They also have the biggest serving size of anywhere in the world, which is 100 milliliters.

Now, you can get that one in Hong Kong as well.

You can get that in a few countries, but you can't get it in the UK, but you can get it in Singapore.

You mean of spirits?

No, sorry, of yakult.

It's like a novelty toblerin, right?

Like it's a.

And also in Singapore, this is the only place they have it, they have a Yakult home delivery service,

which started in 1986.

And they will bring you your Yakult to your door if you want it.

Jesus Christ.

Their gut health must be out of this world.

That's so strange.

Isn't that weird?

But it isn't because it's an island.

It's got this kind of island culture, you know, where just things are popular there that aren't popular anywhere else.

Like they've got the world's first ever salmon ATM there.

Okay, yeah.

it's a vending machine in fact there are dozens of vending machines specifically for Norwegian salmon but the salmon always try and swim back into the vending machine

yeah it's bizarre Norwegian salmon there are like there were 61 as of 2019 but it stays fresh in there for two years

because it's frozen it's frozen so

you know okay like Singapore when you go there and this is for again from the viewpoint of a kid it's not particularly weird it was a bit intimidating because of the rules you were always told, can't chew gum there.

That's illegal.

You will be lashed if you chew gum.

I remember it.

Don't glitter.

Yeah, I remember every time I would go there just being like, wow, it's so clean here.

And yeah, there's a reason for that.

I've just realized, because I remember thinking that as well, but maybe I misunderstood because if they're all drinking so much scotch and they're all getting lashed every day, maybe

that's what it meant all along.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's it is pretty wild.

I was surprised actually that the number one imported drink isn't gin.

That's just because simply of the Singapore sling.

Yeah.

The most famous drink to have the name Singapore in front of it.

That's the second most famous.

There are no others.

So, yeah.

But

that is a massive drink there.

It was invented in Raffles, the hotel, which is an extraordinary hotel.

I don't know if you've ever seen pictures of it.

Oh, you've been to Raffles.

In fact, I've had a Singapore sling there.

Have you?

So, yeah, they say at the bar, which is called the Long Bar, they say that about 2,000 Singapore slings are made per day.

I got to say, I ordered one, had a sip, and then ordered a beer.

Right, I did not like it.

Because you didn't like it, it was too sweet and

yeah, it was basically invented by one of the bar staff there because women were not really allowed to drink publicly.

And so you make this with pineapple and lime, and you put the gin in, but it looks like they're just having a nice fresh juice.

And so that's kind of how it kicked off.

James, when you went to that bar, did you notice as you walked that your feet were crunching everywhere on shells?

Sometimes I see shells.

No, I don't recall that.

I don't remember it very well, to be honest, because it was quite a lot of years ago.

But no, I don't think so.

I remember it being very colonial.

Right.

So they have peanuts there that they give to you in bags, but they don't give you a plate to put the shells on because it is tradition to throw them on the floor immediately after you've eaten them.

So at the end of the day, they just have to sweep up all the discarded shells that are sitting there.

Nice for the cleaning staff.

They appreciate that tradition.

All those migrant laborer cleaning staff?

It's part of it.

Yeah.

And also, here's a really interesting fact.

It is located on number one Beach Road.

However, there is no beach near it.

Riddle me this.

Did there used to be a beach near it?

There used to be, and there's so much reclaimed land.

Oh, it wasn't named after Dylan Thomas' wife, who was a nymphomaniac in a beach.

First-class beach at that.

Was that wild?

There used to be a beach right at the edge of it.

It's on Beach Road.

It's crackers.

So much land has been added that it's no longer in sight.

And Singapore is 20% larger than it it was in the 60s and it's basically taken the land from Malaysia and Indonesia, which you would think sounds like a war.

But they've not gone to war and taken the land in that way.

They've gone over there, taken all the sand and then created new land.

in Singapore.

So the sand comes from different countries.

It's Malaysian land.

It's Indonesian sand, but it's made Singapore 20% larger.

And it's very controversial because it's drained, like they've banned it in Indonesia.

They banned it a while ago.

They've officially, I think almost all of it comes from Cambodia.

And now, because it got banned elsewhere, Cambodia have banned it.

But you can still make a huge amount of money as a Cambodian who's willing to get your sacks out and collect loads of sand and

sand smuggling.

Yeah.

Because it is, I think a lot of stuff about Singapore is to do with the fact it's so small.

And they import so much of their food that they have to have innovative solutions for feeding themselves and, you know, supplying their own stuff.

And they've smashed that.

It was always the chart when I went, I mean, which was 20 years ago, but I think it's the same.

The only two things people ever told you about Singapore, and no offense to Singaporeans, I know there's more, but were the airports amazing and the food's incredible.

And actually, when you're there for three days, once you know the food is the only thing really to do there, once you've had kind of four meals in a row, it's like, well, I can't enjoy this anymore.

What am I going to do now?

Can you stop enjoying food?

Yeah, I've had them within about two hours.

You've just gone round stuffing your face.

Actually, I just thought of something that they did in Singapore that's like the NFL stuff, which is they turn the car parks into like food holes.

Oh, really?

I'm sure they do that.

Yeah, I remember going to it was like an old car park, and once the car park closed and all the cars had gone, suddenly it just opens up and they sell like durian and

that's a huge thing, isn't it?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

There's like one huge food hall.

Um,

graves because there's so little space going, they have to be all shaped like bananas and they kind of tessellate with each other, don't they?

They're all spoony

dollars sweet.

No, you you get they're digging up, there used to be a couple of hundred cemeteries in Singapore, Now there are only about 60 left because they just need space.

You get 15 years only in the ground if you choose to be buried.

And then you have to go elsewhere.

Obviously, as we've said, they're kind of big on their rules and trying to stop people from doing certain things.

There was an anti-gambling advert in 2014, and this featured a little boy called Andy.

He was complaining to his friends that his dad had bet his life savings on Germany winning the World Cup.

And Germany then won the 2014 World Cup.

And the National Council on Problem Gambling said that they decided to choose Germany because they thought they were very unlikely to win, but at least it would be realistic.

You can never bet against the drones in a World Cup.

They should have known.

But obviously, everyone thought that this was encouraging people to gamble.

So the council revamped the advert.

And Andy, the little boy, says, his friend asks, Your dad's team won.

Did you get your money back?

And he said, no, dad never stops.

He wants to bet one more time.

On which he bet on Leicester winning the next year's Premier League.

No, he didn't.

That's so funny.

Yeah, lots of things banned.

That's the only thing I know.

Chewing gum, I know, obviously.

Yeah.

But I mean, it's pretty draconian there, isn't it?

So you can still be caned if you're a man under the age of 50.

Another euphemism for getting drunk.

Oh, no, yeah, you're right.

But you can really, like, they have a cane and they will, and it's sort of minor levels of crime, but it's really painful.

Like, it's really bad.

And there are all sorts of rumors about the procedure.

I thought, like, jaywalking could get you caned, like, is what I thought when I went there.

I don't know if it's true, but minor vandalism does that kind of stuff.

Um, weeing in a lift, Dan, you were there as a child, did you say?

Did you not at not at that age?

Okay, um, because they had a huge problem with people weeing in the lift.

Sorry, sorry.

At what age did you stop weeing in the lift stuff?

Like 23.

Yeah, okay.

Your Dylan Thomas face.

Yeah, because everyone lives in high-rise buildings.

And in the 60s and 70s, every lift stank of piss, and it was horrible.

And they had suggestions of how do we combat this?

Because it's a really nasty social problem.

One block of flats just bought its own lift attendant, like everyone chipped in, and you'd have someone to, you know, press the buttons, but also stop anyone weeing.

And eventually, in the 1988 war on piss,

they installed urine detectors in lifts and had a crackdown.

And if any, if a drop of wee hits hits the floor, that urine detector detects it, the lift slams to a halt.

No.

And you have to wait there until the authorities come and drag you off to choking.

Oh, my God.

And the first people calling for it were, I think, boys who were just sort of.

I want to know, because

they had this problem in other countries that most people live in high-rise.

You're so close to home when you're in a lift.

What if you're going out?

It feels like go before you leave, right?

It just feels like you're so close to having either just left your toilet or just arriving at your toilet you're absolutely right like when you really need the loo you suddenly can't hold it anymore when you're 10 yards from your front door right yeah you let your guard down a bit and then exactly you relax

i don't think it's people who are incapable i don't think it's people who are almost home but just can't hold it anymore i think it was just uh i don't know if i was visiting your home though james i might wee in the lift on the way up just to kind of mark the territory i live in a ground floor flat

through the front window

Okay, that's it.

That is all of our facts.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this podcast, we can all be found on our various social media accounts.

I'm on at Schreiberland on Instagram.

James.

My Instagram is no such thing as James Harkin.

Andy.

My Instagram's at Andrew HunterM.

And if you want to get to us as a group, Anna.

You can email podcast.qi.com or you can tweet at no such thing or Instagram no such thing as a fish.

That's right.

Head to our website as well, by the way.

We have all of our previous episodes up there.

We have a link to the gateway to Club Fish, which is the secret members club that we have.

We do a lot of bonus episodes there, ad-free episodes as well.

Do check it out.

Or just come back next week because we'll have another episode waiting for you here.

See you then.

Goodbye.

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