528: No Such Thing As A Toilet Haiku

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Playing October 7th through 12th at the San Jose Center for the Performing Arts.

What if Juliet got a second chance at life after Romeo?

And Juliet, the new hit Broadway musical and the most fun you'll have in a theater.

I got the eye of the time.

Created by the Emmy Winning Writer from Schitt's Creek and pop music's number one hitmaker.

And Juliet is exactly what we need right now.

Playing October 7th through 12th at the San Jose Center for the Performing Arts.

Tickets now on sale at BroadwaySanjose.com.

Hey everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Phish.

Before we get going, we have a very exciting announcement.

Anna?

Thanks, Don.

Our announcement is that our esteemed colleague Andrew Hunter Murray, famous podcaster, comedian galore, does want to say that?

He's also a published author.

I'm sure you've read his first two novels, which were brilliant thrillers.

He's written a third, which is so much fun so far.

I'm only about a quarter of the way through because, look, he didn't send me the proof on time.

But it is fantastic.

It's called A Beginner's Guide to Breaking and Entering.

It's really fun.

It's got elements of comedy.

It's got elements.

of thriller in it so far.

I really love the main character because he's doing something that I can really imagine myself doing in life.

Don't just believe us, it's been complimented by The Guardian, which says it has a propulsive plot, an ingenious narrator, and lashings of intrigue, making it a genuine and thoroughly enjoyable page turner.

The Sunday Times has called it hugely entertaining, laugh out loud, funny, and impossible to put down.

Dan Schreiber, what do you say?

Well, I actually am a third of the way through the book, and I can say it absolutely gets better after the first quarter.

So, if you want your books great in the first quarter and then accelerating to an even better place, you gotta get a beginner's guide to breaking and entering.

It is the story of a guy who breaks into the second homes of the wealthy.

He lives in them.

They don't know it.

He steals nothing.

But one day after he accidentally bumps into a group of people who also do the same thing, they witness a murder and they get embroiled in a thing that they can't escape.

And it's one of those comedy capers that just gets further and further into the chaos of it.

If you've read Richard Osman's The Thursday Murder Club series, this is the perfect accompaniment to it.

It's comedy, it's thriller, page Turner, you're going to love it.

So go to your local bookshop or any online bookseller or Amazon, look up a beginner's guide to breaking and entering by Andrew Huntamuri now.

Okay, on with the podcast.

On with the show.

Hello, and welcome to another episode of No Such Thing as a Fish, a weekly podcast coming to you from the QI offices in Hoburn.

My name is Dan Schreiber.

I am sitting here with Anna Tashinsky, James Harkin, and Andrew Hunter Murray.

And once again, we have gathered around the microphones with our four favorite facts from the last seven days and in no particular order.

Here we go.

Starting with fact number one, that is James.

Okay, my fact this week is that children's author Margaret Wise Brown died from doing an overenthusiastic Can-Can kick.

I think now, having read up on her, she would like that we laughed just then.

Yeah,

I think so.

Definitely.

So,

is there an underenthusiastic Can-Can kick?

Is there such a thing as that?

Yeah,

I've been to the Moonland Rouge a few times and asked for my money back.

Barely got above the knee.

You've got your protractor out in the front row.

That's disgusting, Annie.

They really look down at that.

So, Margaret Wise Brown is most famous for a children's book called Good Night Moon.

She's written lots of others, but this is the biggie.

What I liked about this is in this podcast, the number of times I've got a book out because we've talked about that author, and I've got about 25% of the way through it and never finished that book.

This is probably the first time I've got through the whole book.

Oh, you finished it?

I managed to finish it.

440-ish words, right?

I thought you were going to say pages then.

I was going to say, no, that wasn't the book I read.

Yeah, it's a very short book.

Actually, the first, maybe the first of those board books, you know, that you give to children.

Yeah.

Apparently it was the first of those.

But she unfortunately died in 1952.

She just had emergency surgery on either an ovarian cyst or an inflamed appendix, depending on what you read.

And she was ready to leave the hospital and be carried, as she said, in a sedan chair by four of the village boys to a hilltop estate where she would convalesce.

But to show the medical staff that she was in good health, she kicked up her leg, Kan Kan style, and she had a blood clot, dislodged it, blacked out, and never died again.

According to what I read, died instantly.

Yeah.

Like just can can kicked it just out.

It's sad, obviously, but that's how I would love to go.

Kant Carl.

Can't cast it.

It's a good way to go, I think, if you've got to go at that age.

Yeah.

I mean, she was young.

She was so young.

She was 42.

And she was...

The other cool thing about this, she was on her way to meet...

I think her lover, one of the junior Rockefellers, was going to pick her up in a boat and sail away to Tunisia with her.

Yeah,

he was on his way on the boat.

Yeah.

So sad.

I think that was maybe the saddest thing is that she'd had a very unlucky love life and she'd met this guy sort of the year before, I think.

And I was reading a bit of a biography of her that he wrote many, many years later.

And he was so, obviously, so in love with her.

And she had finally found the love of her life.

And then, yeah, bam.

He was nicknamed Pebble, but it was James Stillman Rockefeller Jr.

And he was junior.

He was 24.

Oh, wow.

Toy boy.

He later married a descendant of the Carnegies.

So it's a real powerhouse couple, that the Rockefellers and the Carnegies.

Yeah.

Carnegies.

Carnegies, I would say.

Carnegies are the ones who come up to you in the bar and say, that's a shit shirt.

That's not how you neg.

The neg is a compliment and then a backhanded compliment.

What should I be doing?

You should say, I love your shirt.

I saw six people wearing it earlier tonight.

Oh, that's good.

That's even better than mine.

But yeah, Margaret Wares Brown was an absolute legend.

What a gal.

She was.

And she sort of, the fact is, is that she's often referred to as almost like a Hollywood dame.

Like she was going around in high-class parties.

She was doing the weirdest of stuff

socially.

She took on...

She had things like the Bird Brain Club, which was a club where the decision was anyone who was part of it, if they said on the day, it's Christmas, you have to go over and celebrate Christmas.

It's a fun idea.

It's a great idea.

No, it's a tiresome idea it's a fun idea the first two times you do it and even by the third time it's annoying i think it was used wisely just i'm sure some people were kicked out of the christmas club or whatever

brain society yeah she could run as fast as a dog there we go

which dog not a greyhound no you're absolutely right well she was an avid i've written in my notes she was a lifelong beagle she was actually a beagleer um which is where you chase hairs on foot and you have a load of beagle dogs with you And supposedly, she was noted for her ability to keep pace with running beagles.

Her relationship with rabbits gets intense when she's an author because she published a book which was called Little Fur Family.

The illustrator is the same guy, Gareth Williams, who did the illustrations for Charlotte's Web.

She had a first print run of 75,000 copies for this book, and each edition of it was wrapped entirely in the fur of a New Zealand rabbit.

No, I don't believe you.

And were they all ones that she'd caught herself while being a beagle?

Yeah, I have no idea.

It's amazing, isn't it?

Sorry, it was no.

Right?

Apparently it was because of a surrealist artist called Marette Oppenheim, who you might know this, like, it's like a teacup with rabbit fur on the inside and the outside actually.

I don't know that.

It's in the Museum of Modern Art in New York, is it, I think?

And it was the first surrealist thing that they bought.

But yeah, she decided she would do her own thing with books and make them really furry.

But it's 75,000.

75,000.

Yeah, it's mad.

Dan, you mentioned that you haven't read Goodnight Moon, so you won't be aware, as I am, as someone who reads it every single night to my daughter, that the main character in that is also a rabbit.

Yeah.

In fact, they're both rabbits.

So having read this about her, I look at that completely differently now, every page where you see this old rabbit in a rocking chair.

It's a fantastic book, we should say.

It's so good.

It's pretty good.

It's like one of the first ones that just was like slightly weird and just rhyming stuff.

And

it's just a little bunny going to bed, and it's all the stuff in the room, you know, good night clocks and good night socks.

Yeah, all that.

It's just very gentle, sort of lulling for a child.

I'm sure I always read it lots, I think.

But she also didn't like children as well as not liking rabbits.

So it's kind of weird to make a book about rabbits for children if you don't like either of those things.

Yeah, because she also did another book which had a print run of 80,000, which was entirely wrapped in the skin of five-year-olds.

She said in an article for Life magazine, she said, I don't especially like children.

And in another note to someone, she wrote, how many children have you got?

I have 50 bucks.

I think she saw the books as her.

Wow.

All right, they are less trouble.

Have you seen all the Easter eggs in Good Night Moon?

This is just what happens when you have read it over 100 times now.

I'm going to read it again.

You are.

There's so much new stuff to discover.

Don't tell me it's the same with Les Meserabla because I'm not reading that again.

As long as you've got the illustrated version.

Well, I won't give it away so you can discover it.

But if you do have a copy, look at the clock on every page and look at the moon.

Does it go backwards?

No, that would be.

Oh, like memento.

That would be so much much better why didn't you do it it just goes forwards just goes forwards and so you know that it takes an hour and 10 minutes to get this rabbit to sleep

when you watch it go forwards which is actually a long time yeah

and look at the book on the bedside table what do you think the book on the bedside table is is it the book itself it's the book itself

is it's meta goodnight moon still innovating all these years later she wrote her books she said in a sort of 15 to 20 minute period that's the first draft and then the second draft is i'm talking about your books isn't it funny

So it takes her 15 to 20 minutes for the first draft and then it takes her between one and two years for the second draft.

That's where you're going rubbing your second draft.

Oh the edit's hard.

The edit is hard.

Can we talk about the great thing she did with the royalties?

Yes.

Margaret Weiss Brown gave the royalties for every single one of her books.

Basically, in her entire estate, she said, I leave it all to this little nine-year-old boy who lives next door, who I'm friendly with, and you know, I'm 40.

Nothing's going to happen to me.

I'll probably change the world when I gain dependence or whatever.

Anyway, she then dies.

Two years later, Ryan?

Two years later, she dies.

So, and also, Good Night Moon was on the.

It was not selling big anymore.

It was probably going to go out of print shortly.

Obviously, it's never been out of print.

It's sold millions of copies.

And he was called Albert Clark.

And by the time he was 21, there was $75,000 waiting for him.

Unfortunately, he had become a bit of a tear away.

A bit of a bit of a

rogue.

Bit of a rogue.

Burglary, joyriding, vandalism.

He's a very, very, very naughty boy.

Kick out of school for fights, all that sort of thing.

Yeah, and he had this bizarre life where he was always broke and getting into trouble and being arrested and banged up.

And then every year, publishers would say, right, it's another two million quids for you.

It's like the Lotto Lout.

Do you remember him?

No, I don't.

Do you not remember him?

He was like when the lottery first started.

Okay.

I'm sure he's a very nice guy, so apologies if you're listening.

But he won a load of money on the lottery and then just spent it all within like two years or something.

And he was in all the tabloids as being a bit of a rogue.

But it's like that, but then if then once he spent it all, he won the lottery again.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly.

So the first initial batch of money that he got, he gave a lot to his parents, which was nice.

He gave 35,000 to his parents.

He spent 4,000 on clothes for him and his two brothers.

He had two brothers.

And then he bought a Chevy Impala.

As soon as he took it out of the shop, got smashed into, immediately dented it.

That's not his fault.

No, no, but I read an interview with him where he was sort of saying, look, yes, I've done bad things, but also just like, bad things just happen all the time that throw me into situations of such weird details.

It's like he had a dented car and 14 pairs of alligator shoes.

That's all he had in life.

And then the next check comes in.

And the only thing he's kept with him wherever he goes is the will.

He keeps the will that she wrote.

And the alligator shoes.

It's a naked man wearing alligators on his feet, clutching a weird.

Like she was...

putting rabbits on her books.

He was putting alligators on his feet.

This is like the least vegan fact we've ever done.

I just mentioned her love life earlier, which was again not something you imagine when you're reading it because you picture this old lady who's writing these books.

Her name sounds old, doesn't it?

Margaret Wise Brown.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like Wise.

Yeah.

I suppose in the 1920s, that was a really sexy name.

Margaret is now a more old-fashioned name.

I think that's fair.

Is that fair to say?

Well, my mum's a Margaret.

There we go.

And she's very cool.

Yeah.

Can coming every weekend.

She had an interesting love life dreamer's mum.

And so did Margaret Wise Brown and

she went out with a woman called Michael Strange, confusingly, who the I Like the LA Times in 1992 described Michael Strange as a writer and performer of limited gifts and voracious ego.

And she did seem to be not a great partner for Margaret Wise Brown, but they got together in 1940 and pretty much lived together or lived in next-door apartments until Strange died in 1950.

They did share a butler.

The two ladies.

Yeah, so they had an apartment opposite each other.

So in the corridor, the butler would just sort of go out the door, go through the next door, and sort of.

Wait, do they know?

Did they know that they were sharing a butler or was he doing a sort of

take the mustache off, yeah?

Why do they need to take the mustache off?

Why would you take that off?

Because they're dating.

Oh, you're right.

Oh, yeah.

How's your butler?

Well, he's still without a mustache.

You must get one.

Mine looks dashing.

That's pretty fun.

That's a great thing to do.

I looked looked at a few other kids' authors.

Oh, yeah.

Well, basically, I went through my daughter's books and googled all of their authors.

And I was looking at The Tiger Who Came to Tea,

which is by Judith Kerr.

And Michael Rosen, who was the children's laureate and the writer and stuff, he has drawn parallels between the tiger who came to tea and Judith Kerr's early life because Judith Kerr's father was on a death list from the Nazis

and they had to leave Nazi Germany when she was nine years old.

Wow.

And Michael Rosen said that maybe the tiger is based on the threat that they faced when they were children because it disrupted their life so much.

They took everything that the family owned, like the tiger who came to tea drinks all of the water and eats everything in the cupboards and stuff like that.

And Judith Kerr has said that the tiger represents nothing more than a tiger.

Well, I believe Michael.

It's got a very weird ending, the tiger who came to tea.

Yeah, they, well.

Doesn't the tiger just leave?

No, I think Taddy comes home, and it's really annoying because, you know, the tiger's had all his...

Drunk all his beer.

Drunk all his beer and had all the food for tea.

Yeah.

So then...

He says, I've got a very good idea.

We'll go to the cafe and have sausage and chips and ice cream.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, Daddy takes them all out for...

Meanwhile, there's a drunk tiger in the field.

The tiger goes unaddressed, exactly, yeah.

No, because then the next morning they buy loads of food to fill the pantry up and they buy a tin of tiger food in case he comes back and he never did.

Oh, really?

Interesting.

I think if I was a dad walking back home, I opened the door, see my three kids and my wife sitting by a table, no, no, just like in my story,

and in the corner is a drunk tiger.

I do think my first instinct is to not make a deal of it.

They kid, we're going out now.

Okay, exactly.

The tiger's already left when daddy comes back.

Oh, I thought you said he was drunk in the dark.

No, so the daddy comes home

and all the food's gone.

Yeah, all the water's gone.

There's no water in the taps.

Oh, yeah.

Wow.

And mummy and Sophie tell daddy what's happened and said the tiger came in and ate all of the food and drank all of the drinks and all of your beer and took all the water out of the taps.

And then daddy goes, let's go to a cafe.

That's how it works.

It sounds like daddy doesn't believe a word of this.

It sounds like it's happened before.

Yeah.

And

all the beer's gone, has it?

Oh, the tiger, right?

Someone's turned the water off, have me.

And the water bill over here, that's not the paint.

But the interesting thing about that is when they walk to the cafe, it's nighttime, so all the street lights are on, and all the cars have their headlights on.

But there's a little cat that's walking by near where they live that looks exactly like a tiger, but it's

acknowledged as a.

No, it's not acknowledged, but it's obviously like what inspired her lies.

Yeah.

This drunken reprobate lady's lies as she boozes up on her husband's drinks.

Here's what we're going to tell Daddy.

Tiger.

He's never never going to believe it, mum.

I wish I'd been able to...

Because I was on a sofa with Michael Rosen yesterday.

Were you?

Yeah.

But it was such a long sofa that I couldn't ask him about this.

It was an enormously long sofa.

Well, he wouldn't have heard you.

Honestly, he wouldn't.

I would have had to get up and walk to the other end of the sofa.

Wait, did you genuinely think, oh, I'd love to talk to this man, this legend of literature?

No, the sofa's too long.

He had picked the absolute opposite.

He had picked the furthest other part of the sofa to sit on.

It was very clear to me that he wasn't looking for a pal.

All right.

Well, you're in FS.

It was a corner sofa as well, so I could have walked the hypotenuse.

What if Juliet got a second chance at life after Romeo and Juliet, created by the Emmy-winning writer from Schitt's Creek, and pop music's number one hit maker, playing October 7th through 12th at the San Jose Center for the Performing Arts.

What if Juliet got a second chance at life after Romeo?

And Juliet, the new hit Broadway musical and the most fun you'll have in a theater.

I got the I know the time.

Created by the Emmy-winning writer from Schitt's Creek and pop music's number one hit maker.

And Juliet is exactly what we need right now.

Playing October 7th through 12th at the San Jose Center for the Performing Arts.

Tickets now on sale at BroadwaySanjose.com.

Okay, it is time for fact number two, and that is Anna.

My fact this week is that the city of Matsuyama has over 90 post boxes specifically for mailing haiku.

Hmm, lovely.

Or, as you could say, Matsuyama has over 90 post boxes for mailing haiku.

Brilliant.

Is that right?

It's right.

It's right.

Amazing.

Well done.

Why?

Why?

Why?

Why did she bother making that haiku?

They're bloody easy to make, aren't they?

This is the capital city of Shikoku Island, which is one of Japan's islands.

And it's because the city sort of calls itself the home of haiku, because very famous haiku poets lived there.

And so the first post box was installed in 1968 to commemorate one of these poets' births.

And now they're all over the place.

They're like monuments and baths, public baths, and they're really beautiful as well, and lots of different designs.

And every three months, the local haiku poets go to the post boxes, or they send an envoy, and they empty them out, and then they judge all the entries.

Oh, and the winner gets published on the city's website.

That's so good.

Yeah, that's great.

I hope there's a walking trail

between them, which is called the Take a Haiku.

That would be good.

But there is a walking trail.

Sorry to jump in on your channel.

No, no, no.

I didn't see it coming.

You should be able to see by now that long, that distant look in in my eyes, which shows something's brewing.

The fact he's been silent for two minutes, Dan, that should have been a clue.

Yeah, no, they do in this place as well, the Matsuyama area, they have certain haiku bars that you go into and you go up to the counter and you write a haiku and the cocktail they make you is based on your haiku.

No.

It's just, you know, they love a haiku.

They love a novelty thing to do there, yeah.

What do you say?

Jin and Tartnick, please.

Is it Bashol who was from this place or is is it someone else?

Because he's the most famous haiku guy.

He is, yeah.

There seem to be sort of four kings of haiku and he's like the king, king, king of kings.

But no, it's Masaoka Shiki, who was the person who rejuvenated haiku in the 19th century.

So it basically sort of died or was really dying.

And he lit a fire under its arse and renamed it as well.

And gave it its name.

Gave it its name Haiku.

It was called like Hokku or something before and then he didn't change it much.

No, he just put a stamp on it.

He just went, this is, yeah, this is the Shiki stamp.

It's really interesting what Shiki did, because he was obsessed with haiku.

He failed his exams at university, partly because he was writing so many haiku and reading haiku, and you know, he was engrossed in the world of haiku.

He sort of added to the rules about haiku, and the first, the most important thing about haiku as we know them is that it's an observation of what's around you.

It's an observation of nature.

So that's a key element to haiku.

So actually, what Anna did at the start was not a haiku.

No.

No, it was not a hair.

No, it had the right number of syllables in, but it has to have something to do with nature or something to do.

It has to have a word that's something to do with one of the seasons.

So, for instance, there's a really famous one by Basho, who I mentioned earlier, which goes,

an ancient pond, a frog jumps in, the splash of water.

In Japanese, it works as a haiku.

But for him, it's the word frog refers to spring.

It's a spring word.

And so you need one of those.

And so unless you're using the word post box to refer to...

Yeah, it's a classic autumnal word.

Postbox.

It's in the glossaries.

I get it now.

So I read that earlier, that one, and I thought, you know, it was like, this was one that he published and became famous, and he was like dining off it for years.

Like, man, that haiku was insane.

And I didn't find it impressive at all.

I didn't make the spring and the frog connection.

That's and now are you wowed by it?

I do like the

punnery and the kind of double meaning.

Are we saying that because frogs jump?

No, no, no, no.

That's not it.

Oh, then I dislike it again.

I thought that is what was going on.

That wouldn't work at all in Japanese.

No, it's just that frogs come out in spring, as in they're born in spring, so they're associated with springtime.

And it's supposed to you read it, and it just puts you in that position of being in a garden in spring.

The frog jumps in, you know exactly where you are, you know what's happening, you're one with nature.

That's it.

Do you get it now?

I get it now.

Listen, it's no good night moon.

It's like it's what it's meant to be is like it's like a shot in a film almost.

Yeah, it's a shot that crystallizes something and expresses something.

I really like them.

I did not know they don't have to be five, seven,

No,

you can be a bit flexible.

And actually, I was very interested to message my Japanese friend after I'd read about this because, yeah, people who write about haiku properly and who know about it say, look, the syllables thing, it's a misinterpretation in English anyway, because it's not syllables, it's sounds.

And she wrote me a few haikus at random, I think, while she was sitting on the toilet.

And none of them had the right number of syllables.

And I was like, sorry, I don't know if she would have wanted me to share that, but I have.

She said, an ancient toilet, a turt jugs in a splash of water.

And she said, the only thing I think a haiku needs is the seasonal reference.

So there you go.

And it is, they have, Dan, these glossaries that you have to stick to, don't they?

You can buy a glossary, a haiku nursery.

Dan, could you maybe say some words that you think might be summer words?

Summer words?

Yeah, like a word.

Sun.

That might do it.

I reckon.

Although you do get sun in the other, you know,

a nice

seasons.

Winter sun.

You sort of get it all year round, don't you?

At the old sun.

Harvest.

Sorry, that'll be an autumn one.

Bikini.

Beach.

Yeah.

Bikini.

Yeah, yeah, that's a classic.

It's in the list of summer words.

Blockbuster.

So summer could be insects.

Autumn, scarecrows, anthem.

Nice.

Winter, tangled twigs, empty fields.

Oh, lovely.

I really like.

Can I show you the prop I've brought along?

Yeah, like you related prop.

Hang on.

Because I don't know if you guys know this.

You're not on the night.

Sorry.

I I don't know if you guys know this.

You've got Michael Rosen in your bag.

Brought the sofa.

Okay, so there's a British haiku society.

Oh, yeah.

Do you guys find that?

Yeah, because of your research.

Well, I'm very proud to announce they've gained a new member this week.

Oh, God.

No, I've never joined us.

Yeah.

Have you stopped your subscription to the Lighthouse Society?

The Association of Lighthouse Keepers have lost a member.

Is it like having citizenship?

You're only last to be a member of one or the other.

I think it's lapsed now because I haven't received a copy of Lamp magazine for a while.

and I was a big fan of that.

Lights out.

I am now a member of the BHS.

Yeah.

British Holmes.

That's right.

And look, I've got the journal here, which is called Blythe Spirit.

So Andy is holding an A5 white book with Blythe Spirit written on it.

Does it have a lot of haiku in it?

It's absolutely jam-packed with really good haiku.

Just loads.

Just randomly pick one.

Yeah, give us a great haiku.

A spring one if you can.

You're not going to believe this.

This is by Philip Murrill.

Called home, I scrape away moss to find his name.

And you can see why I signed up.

I like the way you pretended that was just random, but actually it's fallen open to this page because the spine is so cracked.

All right.

A baby shower immersed by cherubs.

Botticelli.

Hmm.

What do you guys...

I have to, I admire the idea of haikus.

I really like them.

It doesn't do anything for me.

Certainly something like reading through a book like that.

Just I imagine if I was sitting in nature and then someone sent me a haiku about the area, that would be really nice and poignant.

But do you guys get something from haiku?

I have done, having done research for this, I'd say until that I hadn't.

Until I understood what it was, I didn't really get anything out of it.

But I like the idea they have these clubs where you know 100 people will go to a beautiful place in nature and they'll all just write as many haikus.

I get that.

I get that.

And you're just kind of like, you're trying to capture one moment where you're with nature in just this kind of slightly formulaic, but you can go out of the rules if you want to.

Way, I kind of do that.

Oh, it's a lovely conceit, definitely.

I like it.

Yeah, I really like it.

As James says, reading about it, the analysis of it, as with any kind of poetry or art, because I'm not smart enough to understand it face on.

But when you read the analysis, I think you get it.

And maybe you could be lured in by the punched line element.

You know, often you'll do a comedy set where at the end it's got a big reveal.

And all the haikus have them haikus exactly there's supposed to be this moment of realization so that's why i thought the spring with the frog thing was a sorry not that kind of thing more like the one i read that i really liked was

bass picking bugs off the moon

And the way it was explained was, you're bass, it's a type of fish, it's plucking bugs, and then it's off the moon, because suddenly you realize to them, they think they're picking bugs off the surface of the moon, because they're always looking up at the moon.

Oh, that's lovely.

Whereas to us, they're picking up the surface of the moon.

All of the haikus would have like a word in it, which is kind of hard to translate into English, but they're like a surprise or a cut.

They call them a cutting word online a lot.

And it might be, aha!

Or, what?

Sorry?

Yeah, it's just like, it's like an it's almost like an exclamation point.

Do you know what I mean?

My favorite haiku that I found is, and I hadn't heard of this, and I really think this is beautiful, the idea of the death poem.

Oh, yeah.

So the death poem is a Japanese tradition whereby, if you know that you're about to die, let's say an execution is going to happen, because this has been going from centuries and centuries, this death poem idea.

You are encouraged to write your final poem, and that can be presented in sometimes as a haiku.

So, there was one that was written by a guy called Moriya Senan, and his was, Bury me when I die beneath a wine barrel in a tavern.

With luck, the cask will leak.

Okay, so that's that's his

thing.

What's really nice is the line, hopefully the cask will leak, or the cask will leak.

The Japanese wording for that is Mori Ya Sen Nan, which is his name.

Lovely.

Oh, that's clever.

Isn't that wonderful?

Yeah.

That is clever.

No one else can do that, can they?

No one else stood a chance in a bad competition.

Hey, doctor, watch this.

I'm doing a big cancan.

Uh-oh.

Oh, shit.

Shit.

Beautiful.

Really good.

Where's the seasonal reference in that?

Did you guys hear tell of

now he's a member of the haiku society?

This is how Andy speaks.

Everything has to scan.

Did you hear tell of the 2014 haiku artist who operated out of Sainsbury's in North London?

No.

This was the Baud Baker who

smuggled complaint poems into the Sainsbury's treats that he was bagging up.

So, for example,

enjoy your cookies.

Each bite is a minute.

I'll never get back.

It's a nice one.

Anyway, he was identified and immediately fired.

Sainsbury's apologised to customers and said it should never have happened.

I love it.

Come on.

I liked it.

I liked it.

If you have delighted, if you've got it, it's like a fortune cookie, isn't it?

But instead of your future, you get some abuse.

This city is Matsuyama,

which led me to read about Hideki Matsuyama, who was the first ever Japanese professional golfer to win a men's major golf championship.

Oh, my God.

What year are we talking?

2021.

What?

Wow, that's the first time.

First time a Japanese man, at least, has won a major golf championship.

And he was once disqualified from a competition due to Tipex.

Riddle me this.

Yeah, okay.

Disqualified for.

Famous in the golfing world.

Painting his balls.

Painting his balls with Tipex, but they're already white.

Yeah, but does it add weight to it or some kind of grip that you wouldn't have?

You're getting really close.

Okay.

But it's not the ball.

Did he tip it over his score on the board and then wear a different score?

It's the um it's the club.

He would he would put it onto the club itself on the so he put like a little target on the club so that he could see where he wanted to hit the ball or tipx and that's allowed.

You're allowed to do that.

But he put too much tipx on it, which made it slightly raised, which would change the grip that when the club hit the ball, it would change the the way that the ball flew.

And they measured it, and it was like a millionth of a millimeter too thick.

How amazing is that?

From a competition.

God, the forensic down to the millimeter.

Super pedantic.

Like someone said, yes, you are allowed to put Tipex on your club, but only a bit.

Yeah.

Exceeds that bit.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

Wow.

Anyway, so that's just me shoehorning some golf interviews.

There was an exciting thing in the world.

This is sort of, he was the first Japanese golfer to do this.

There was an exciting thing in the world of haiku in 2017 when a very prestigious competition was won for the first time by a non-Japanese person.

Really?

And it was Gracie Starkey, who was a 14-year-old schoolgirl from Gloucestershire.

Wow.

And she was learning Japanese at the time, and her teacher encouraged her to enter it.

I think there were 18,000 entries.

It doesn't say much for the entire population of Japan, does it?

It doesn't.

This girl who I'm sure is great, but has only just started learning a language.

Yeah, it shows that the bato entry is low for haiku, I suppose.

Like, I can't imagine her winning the Japanese Open Golf, for instance.

Um, and her poem was printed on millions of there's a green, there's a green tea drink company that's was sponsoring it, so her poem was printed on millions of these bottles.

And the coder to the story is that Gracie then decided to drop Japanese for GTSE,

saying the Japanese language is so hard.

Okay, it is time for fact number three, and that is Andy.

My fact is that in the early 1900s, there was a debate over whether cinemas should be dark or fully lit.

Do we think they got it right?

I think they did get it right.

For me, yes, I think dark is better.

For the screening purpose, yes.

For the rest of society, maybe not.

Go on.

Well, this is this is this was the brainchild of a guy called Roxy Rotherfell, early cinema entrepreneur.

And he announced in 1910 that he had perfected what he called daylight pictures.

He said they were absolutely flickerless, they wouldn't tire the sensitive eyes of the audience out, and you could see everything in the room.

And that was a kind of crucial point because he was a big part of making cinema socially acceptable.

Whereas, you know, before it was fairgrounds and peep shows, and it was a bit raucous, and it was dark, and you couldn't see what was going on, and people might be, you know, getting up to hanky-panky, and you know, men and women were sitting next to each other in the dark.

You know, why have we allowed this to happen?

And he basically said, Look, here's a lovely, bright, nicely lit screen.

And

he said, You can see the picture perfectly, but you can also see the room.

And it's just a nice, more sociable way of watching.

But actually, even the very, very, very, very earliest cinemas, so when Edison's motion picture patents company was first sending out projectors, they said that you should install ambient lighting to deter misbehavior.

So even from the very first moment of cinemas, they were saying, let's not have it too dark because you never know what's going to happen.

Exactly.

Imagine if they'd stuck to it.

I wonder how many children wouldn't have been conceived in the back row of a cinema.

It could have done damage to the population of the world.

It would have ruined a lot of people's cinema experiences, wouldn't it?

In their youth.

There's a cinema that's reopened in Leeds recently called the Hyde Park Picture House, and they are gas lamp lit.

And

they basically were saying that the reason that there were gas lamps in there was to stop the groping.

Not necessarily hanky-panky, but actually attacking women in the dark sitting in the cinema.

And so as they were restoring it, they've been putting up photos online of all the things that they're finding, like sort of under the floorboards and the seats and stuff.

And one thing they're finding is giant hat pins.

And this used to be a suffragette thing where

yeah, you would have, they had to legislate the length of hat pins because they were being used as weapons.

But in the cinemas, women would bring hat pins with them because guys would come and latch onto them because and no one could see it.

And they would start poking them with the old hat pin.

Brilliant.

Yeah.

Because it was a thing that you had on you anyway.

Like you could say, oh no, this hat pin, it's not for stabbing people, it's for keeping my hat on.

But you knew if you're a pervert and the woman you're perving on's hat fell off, you knew you're in trouble.

Get out of there.

That's my advice.

It's really cool.

If we ever get back to Leeds for a live show or whatever, you know, the cinema's back open.

It's the only gas-lit cinema in the world now.

It's pretty cool.

One of the things about the darkness in cinemas is that you know how if you go to the theatre or the opera or you know, know whenever it's dark well that wasn't always the case either and it mostly came through Gustav Mahler who decided everything should be dark and he was probably inspired by the cinemas so I think it seems that in the early 20th century he did he insisted on dimming the auditorium and actually when he did so the audience were protesting because if you go to the opera in Vienna in the early 20th century you're wearing all your best clothes you want everyone to see you oh yeah you didn't go to see the opera you went to see your rivals, didn't you?

In the box over the other side of the audience.

You didn't want it to be dark, and you have to concentrate on the opera.

Because, as we all know, opera is incredibly dull.

It's literally just a filler.

We're just going to go and look at people's dresses.

That's great.

I didn't realize, I'd love to have visited back then just to watch the social situation.

I didn't realize it was literally social gazing, basically.

People went there sort of every night of the season, and they were not concentrating on the play beyond night one.

Yeah.

No, no, no.

Wow.

There's a thing now where there's a lot of controversy about when the lights should come back up in a cinema.

Ooh, at the end of a movie.

Well, I think it's useful, right?

Because if the lights haven't come up and the credits are starting, that's probably because there's an end Marvel thing at the end, right?

Yeah.

That's usually what happens.

What do they do?

Do they do like a little scene at the end?

Yeah, like all the Marvel movies would have a little scene at the very end.

I've never ever watched a Marvel movie, and I respect that so much.

But they wouldn't put the lights up, so you kind of knew that was coming.

Right.

That's very clever.

So, what's this red-hot debate about?

Well, the red hot debate is that it's a health and safety thing, right?

Most people, when the credits start rolling, want to get out of the cinema as quick as possible.

Maybe they need to be somewhere.

I just hate seeing the names of people who work.

Yeah, it's just not serious.

Sake, guys, you've done the job.

I don't need to know about who's the best boy.

Oh, stop bragging.

So, they want to get out of there.

That can be very dangerous.

They can fall over trip hazards, all that sort of stuff.

The issue is, modern cinema uses its credit sequence now as part of the film.

So, there's one film where basically the final scene is happening as the credits are rolling.

But you don't have the old day projectionists in most cinemas these days.

Let's say modern cinema, they get a hard drive and it has a stamp throughout the hard drive.

This is when the credits arrive.

So they'll pre-program the lights to come up.

So a lot of people are missing the end of movies in terms of the Atmos because lights are coming up.

And so yeah, it's a raging movie.

How many films are running their credits over the final scene?

That feels very avant-garde to me.

Dan, have you ever been...

I ask you this because you're Australian.

Have you ever been to Broome?

No, I haven't actually.

No.

Because it's a very long way away from the Life, the rest of Australia.

It's in the northwest.

And it's got a cinema called Sun Pictures.

And it's one of the first.

It's a very early cinema.

I don't know if it's Australia's first, but it's very old.

1916.

It was...

I just like it so much because every night the cinema at Broome was flooded by the tide.

It was on the coast and there was tidal tidal flooding, and most nights the street would be submerged.

And apparently, some old-timers who remembered it back in the early days said you would be able to catch a fish during the screening around under your feet.

That's so good.

Yeah.

Great if you're watching Titanic or something in the arms of cinema.

Absolutely.

It was more fun when projectionists had a bit more control on the day, wasn't it?

Because people, you almost had a relationship with your projectionists.

And actually, even

I think momentarily when you're in the cinema, you could say, you know, put the music on louder in old Nickelodeons or whatever.

Oh, yeah.

Or in 1939, a newspaper in Newcastle reported on a really exciting innovation that it said is going to take off in cinemas, where in musical films, of which there were quite a lot back in the day, like Singing in the Rain or whatever.

After one of the good songs, they'd bring the lights down to black, and then that was the cue for the audience to shout encore.

And if they shouted Encore long enough, then you rewound the song and you played it again.

That's great.

Oh, that is good.

That's really good.

Could you say, I didn't quite.

Who's this?

Can you play that bit again?

Is she married to him?

Yeah, it would be incredibly annoying watching it with a granny or a child or me.

You mentioned Nickelodeons.

So that was in America, right?

And it was, you paid a nickel to get in, and it was like usually in a shop or something like that.

And they would pull all the blinds down, make it really, really dark, and you'd be able to watch one of these old movies.

And obviously, very dark, and it was very cheap, so they attracted the poorer classes.

And so it was worried by higher class people that they'd get pickpocketed or whatever as soon as they went in so again the darkness was a thought to be a problem but in the uk we had our own version of the nickelodeons and they were called penny gaffes

and obviously the difference being that in the uk they were one penny to go in whereas in america it was a nickel but the problem was a nickel was worth 2.5 pennies and so the people who were making the penny gaffs were making two and a half times less than the nickelodeon people.

They just did it for the catchy title.

Call them Topney Gaffs.

I guess it was like the smallest.

Oh, they did have pennies in America, didn't they?

So they could have done pennies as well.

But yeah, it was just, I suppose they thought that it was the only price they could charge.

But there was a worry at the time.

I read some newspaper articles saying that young children were robbing from their parents so they'd be able to attend the penny gaffes.

Always, always social worries.

Any new technology?

So interesting.

Just how is this going to ruin the youth?

Yeah.

And the other thing that they did is because these penny gaffes were in shops, so it was a normal shop and they'd be like, okay, we'll put a load of chairs up.

We'll charge people a penny to come in.

But there was people tried to shut them down.

And one way they did it was saying you don't have a music hall license because there was no cinema licenses because cinemas didn't exist.

And so loads of them would play the movies in complete silence.

And so you would go in, it was completely dark and it was completely silent.

You'd be watching the moving pictures, but there'd be no music.

And because usually you'd have a piano or something wouldn't you being played live along with it but they couldn't do that because if they did they'd get closed down for being a musical to be fair i think that's fine i mean mostly if you're watching a silent film you're not watching it for the piano music are you watching it a lot of music was composed specifically for the for the reels they'd be so they'd be handed this cheap music and ambience matters yeah but i don't think it matters as much as with a film with dialogue for instance where you wouldn't know what was happening if you're watching a silent film you still know what's happening i would like more ambiance in my movies you know if you think star wars which has dialogue dialogue, would be as good without the score, then let's experiment and have it completely music-free or Indiana drones or whatever.

Also, I need something to drown out James going, who's that?

When did we get married?

Okay, it's time for our final fact of the show, and that is my fact.

My fact this week is that one of the oldest diving clubs in Ireland is the Muff Diving Club.

And what's so funny about that?

Nothing.

It's interesting because

it's how old it is.

It's one of the oldest.

Wow.

How old is it?

We're talking a good like three decades.

Oh my God.

Yeah, no, this is the muff diving club.

Yeah, it was just set up by a group of guys who obviously spotted a good gag and they wanted to do it.

And they've not only been pushing for it to be an old, long-lasting diving club, but they want it to be the largest, the biggest membership of any diving club in the world.

and so you go to their site you can buy t-shirts you can buy you can get a membership card there is a lot more t-shirt selling than actual diving in this club i think i'm finding it so hard when i'm looking into it and i still haven't got to the bottom of it if any diving happens what at all what is a diving club what is a diving club you get diving instructors teach you how to dive scuba diving yeah oh i thought it was high diving did you not even see the logo did you research this not following the link you sent i tried but i've got a child lock on my computer and i

um how interesting.

I mean, you could have a high diving club as well.

People who like to high dive might get together and practice together.

I guess.

But if all your facts are about high diving, then you are going to be lost for the next half an hour.

I've gone purely muff, actually.

I've gone muff directional.

Well, me too.

I went to the Irish sort of version of Company's House to see how many other muff companies there are in Ireland.

Right.

Muff Engineering, Muff Service Station, Muff Soap, Muff Direct.

Muff Direct.

Is this all in Muff?

These are all real.

They're all in Muff.

Muff After School.

And.

No.

You can't honour the parents and your kids to that.

It's just like an after-school place where kids go to, like, while the parents are still working at the Muff Liquor Company.

No.

The Muff Liquor Company, this is really interesting.

I went on their website and it doesn't seem to be a joke at all.

In fact, if you go to the website, it looks like they haven't realized that Muff Liquor could be quite rude because it's a proper, like, it's a vodka company and they've got a history of this guy, the grandfather of the owner who started it all these years ago.

So there's no sort of sly wink at the fact that this is an amusing phrase, like that cut salad company called TOST.

No, unless I've completely missed it.

I think they've just gone deadpan.

No, I think you're right.

I think it's just, we're in muff, we make a liquor, let's put it out.

Oh, fair enough.

They do know, but they've gone, we're above that.

These fucking muff divers next door, we don't need to stoop to that level.

We'll put it out there.

We'll let people chuckle to themselves and we'll sell them some vodka.

No t-shirt necessary i was reading an interview where a lady called caitlin was over in australia and she was on a tv show like a family fortunes kind of thing and she was from muff like you know it's not got a big population muff but she was from there and um the guy couldn't believe that she was from there and she said she went to a school that was called hollybush so that was a nice other connection and she says that uh when you come when you're driving in that there is a sign that says you are now entering muff

and i've not seen that online i've i've been looking seems plausible it does seem plausible You can say you see welcome to Muff, but I haven't seen a you are now entering Muff.

House prices are struggling in Muff.

Yes.

Yeah.

Apparently, the prices are lower than you might imagine.

I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop on this joke.

Well, it's for a slightly different reason than you might think.

So you would find

people who live on shithouse lane or whatever.

They're always complaining in the newspapers that I can't sell my house.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah.

But in actual fact, the reason that they can't sell them very well is because they're on the border between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland

and Brexit has meant that the the bottom has dropped out of the muff market

there we go there we go I knew I knew something was coming was it worth it was it worth mortgage news from math it was not a written joke

but then you're on the phone to a local estate agent going so if if I say this am I technically right?

Do you want to buy the house or not, Mr.

Hargan?

Oh, dear.

Shall we talk about muffs themselves?

Let's talk about fur muffs that people would wear.

Okay.

You know,

hand muffs, as it were, how you keep your hands warm.

They used to be completely gender neutral.

Men and women alike would wear muffs.

It was just a thing because

it was really cold.

It used to be a lot colder.

Some used...

Overwhelming, guys.

It used to be a bit colder, but also they were more.

In the 16th century, you know, people did not have well-insulated homes and clothes weren't, you know, you didn't have lovely puffer jackets.

You know, people needed to keep warmer and wearing fur muffs to cover your hands, really useful.

Okay.

Furry muff.

Furry muff.

And I think it came from muffuli, which is a medieval Latin term which describes these big leather winter mitts that you'd wear.

Right.

Muffuli.

And there was a great article all about the history of the word muff on the Oxford University Press website by Anatolie Lieberman.

And it's all these different words come from muff.

So

Danish muff means clown.

And Dickens uses muff to mean something like an annoying person or a fool or whatever.

German has muffeld, which means sulk.

Miff might come from muff.

Miff.

I'm feeling a bit miffed.

Oh, miffed, right.

You might really be actually muffed.

You say muff.

We use muff in American football.

It's a term.

Oh, you've muffed it.

Yeah, that's what it means, basically.

As in someone kicks the ball to you and you try and catch it and you don't quite catch it, but the ball's still in place so someone else can get it.

That's a muff.

Oh, yeah.

That's quite a technical term.

Because I would say, yeah, you've muffed it to mean sort of, oh, you just messed it up.

You do say that, and I actually checked all my WhatsApp messages, and you're the only person who's ever WhatsApp me the word muff.

No, really?

Yes.

And to you to mean muffed it up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, wow.

That is interesting.

I'm going to search my WhatsApp.

Well, no, not now.

Oh, okay, yeah, I'll do it.

That's it.

but muff is also slang for a woman's vulver.

No.

What?

No.

I know it's so weird.

Wait a minute.

So what about the muff diving club?

I think that could be a you that should be a euphemism.

That sounds like kind of

what about the thing that James said about the bottom dropping out of the muff market.

That's even funnier than it was originally.

I thought it was just funny because James said the word bottom, which is a bit funny.

No, it's true.

It's actually true.

But also also, it's public.

But it has been slang for that for so long.

I like how quickly we turn this into slang.

So it started meaning a hand warmer in the 1590s, and by the 1690s, it meant a woman's pubic area.

Because I suppose you've carried it down there, it's a big hairy thing that's around your crotch.

So, of course.

It's 100 years.

That's a long time for it to make the leap.

When it's first written down there, I bet they keep saying it for

decades.

Yeah, you can get muff warmers.

Is that to warm your muff?

Or?

Yeah.

I thought muff was

to warm you.

Yes, but the muff warmers warm the muff.

But who warms the muff warmer?

They were little ceramic things that you would fill up with hot water.

And I imagine actually that you'd leave them in the muff.

Yeah, you would.

And then when you're going out,

you warm the muff up.

Maybe you're going out in an hour.

You say, well, pot the muff warmer in the muff.

Then you come to go out, you just get your muff.

It's lovely and warm.

Andy,

idea.

Have you got any money to invest?

Yeah.

Good.

Okay, so

a mannequin.

Yeah.

But it's heated and you put your coat on the mannequin and then when you go out, you can take a nice warm coat and put it on.

Oh, yes.

Ring the dragons.

Ring the dragons.

That's great.

If you're really wealthy, you just have a human coat warmer.

Someone who wears your coat for half an hour before you go out.

I see that.

Yeah.

Mine is just a one-off purchase, whereas yours is more of a subscription one.

Thank you very much so, yes.

Yeah, I do see that.

I mean, when you get into bed, it might be nice to.

I mean, a warmer bed isn't.

I know you two are sort of weirdos, you like cold beds, but I like getting into a bed that's slightly warm on a winter's night.

Yeah.

Do you do like they used to do on the Grand Tour, where they would put a live pig in their bed before they went to bed to warm it up and to get rid of bed bugs?

Is that a real thing?

Yeah, that's what they used to do.

On the Grand Tour.

You saw the Clarkson show.

Wait, what were you talking about?

That's what I thought you were talking about.

I was talking about in the when would it have been in the like 18th century when you would go around Europe?

Yeah, yeah.

yeah have you heard of um muff boutiques this is great

okay not a company in muff no this was a thing it's from a book by a 19th century dandy called octave huzin and he was an admirer of ladies' accessories and he wrote a book which was called l'hombrelle le gant le monchamp which means the parasol the glove the muff and he said that in renaissance italy uh there were muff boutiques where you could either go in and buy a muff or in the off season when it gets nice and more we don't need your muff anymore anymore you go and you store it in the muff boutique and they delouse them i mean

if true that's very funny it's a brilliant book that isn't it it does sound great i've only read secondhand about it there was a i it's actually quite it's all available online and it's quite short um so i did read it and yes the sunshade the glove the muff and it was published by this guy in response to the previous year's incredibly successful the fan um which was his history of the fan oh that was great yeah yeah i know that book really published sort of 1881 Were you there for the first time?

No, I know a modern one.

Someone wrote a whole book about it.

No, it's great.

The Sunshade, the Glove, the Muff.

And he tells my favourite story from it was: he says there's an account in the late 1500s of towers being besieged, and at the front line of defenders who are, you know, defending themselves from

this siege is a woman with muffs and a halberd in hand.

A halberd being a sort of poker, pokey sticky thing.

Spear, thank you.

A woman with a muff defending the city.

Wow.

For a reason.

Keeping her hands warm.

Keeping her hands warm while.

Because you've got to be quite dexterous to operate a spear, I suppose.

Absolutely.

You can't prod a Haldane with cold hands, can you?

Very difficult, yeah.

There were muff chains, which was to hang your muff, I think, when you're not using it.

Your hands out of your muff, you just put it on your muff chain around your neck.

Oh, right.

Muff pistols?

Okay, I don't think to shoot your muff.

To shoot from your muff if you're approached by foot peds.

Oh, I see.

They weren't like the sex pistols.

The muff pistols.

It was like a female sex pistol.

No, that was just a tiny gun for ladies to protect yourself if you were out and about and someone approaches you to rob you.

One place in Ireland that would have used the muff divers, I think, quite usefully is a town where the first transatlantic telegraph cable was laid in the 1880s.

Oh, yeah.

So that was there.

That was in Ireland.

It was a little place called Spunk Cane.

Yeah.

That's where the first transatlantic cable was.

Spunk.

Spunk Cane.

So that's great.

Okay, here's another fact.

The word spunk also can mean ejaculate.

No.

That's a really funny name for a place to start the cable.

I thought it was just like a good-looking dude, you know, spunky, you know?

That's disgusting now.

Spunk Cane.

The town of Muff, where the original fact was, is where Amelia Earhart landed when she did her first solo flight.

Cool.

Not her last one.

No, unfortunately, we don't know exactly where she landed that time.

Right.

But her first one, she landed just outside the village of Muff.

Oh, wow.

The man who composed the theme music for Gladiators is called Muff Murphy.

Gladiators a TV show.

Yeah.

Ah, that's a good name.

Muff Murphy.

Yeah, Muff is a name.

It's a man's name.

Muff.

I don't know.

Maybe it was a nickname as well.

Yeah.

I don't know any Muff.

I'm not familiar with

the brother of Spencer Davis, who obviously founded the Spencer Davis group.

Obviously.

Obviously.

It's called Muff.

You know the Spencer Davis group.

Give me some loving.

Is that a band?

Oh, it's a band.

Yeah, it's a band.

Give me some loving that one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Oh,

hang on.

I've always thought it was Give Me Summer Loving.

No.

I have thought it was Give Me Some Muffin.

James has inserted a muffin there.

Anna has thought it was a haiku.

It's must be a summer reference.

Okay, that's it.

That is all of our facts.

Thank you so much for listening.

If you'd like to get in contact with any of us about the things that we've said over the course of this show, you can find us on various bits of social media.

I'm on Instagram.

You can get me on at Schreiberland.

Andy.

I'm on Twitter at Andrew Hunter M.

James.

I now have 400 followers on TikTok

on No Such Thing as James Harkin, despite the fact that I have no intention of posting anything on there.

Yeah, and if you want to get to us as a group, Anna, where do they go you can go to instagram which is no such thing as a fish or twitter at no such thing or you can email podcast at qi.com yep if you want to find anything else out about us go to our website no such thing as a fish.com there is the links to get you into the world of club fish which is our secret members group and there's a great discord that you can join and lots of bonus content that we put out through club fish or you can just get access to all of our previous episodes as well as bits of merchandise that you can get your hands on there uh otherwise just come back here next week we're gonna be back with another another episode, and we'll see you then.

Goodbye.