Dr. Daniel Amen: Struggling to focus, Stay Organized, or Feeling Overwhelmed by Your to-do List? ADHD Could Be Quietly Running Your Life (THIS is what to DO!)

Transcript

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Speaker 28 How do I know the difference between whether I have ADHD or I'm just distracted because we're living in an overwhelming time?

Speaker 27 Short attention span, distractability, disorganization, impulsivity, and hyperactivity that can't sit still.

Speaker 1 Psychiatrist and clinical neuroscientist, Dr. Daniel Amos.

Speaker 27 Says that feeling better starts with understanding your brain.

Speaker 27 90% of mothers work outside the house.

Speaker 27 When they have untreated ADD, they often look depressed and they get on something like Vuxapro, which actually makes them more ADD, happier, but more distracted, happier, less focused, happier, more impulsive.

Speaker 27 You eliminate gluten, dairy, corn, soy, artificial dyes, and sweeteners. 70% of the kids lost their ADB.
No way.

Speaker 28 Someone's sitting here thinking, well, I'm not going to achieve anything with my life because I've got ADHD, what would you say to them?

Speaker 27 The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 28 Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty.
The one, the only Jay Shetty.

Speaker 28 Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.

Speaker 28 Today's guest is someone who has frequented the podcast more than any other guest, the most requested, the most often, and someone that I'm grateful to have known for the last few years and become friends with.

Speaker 28 He's the person that I reach out to when I have a question around something I'm unsure about, when I'm testing something, when I'm experimenting something.

Speaker 28 This is the person that I write to and say, hey, what do you think about this? I'm talking about none other than Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Amon, physician, adult and child psychiatrist and founder of Amon Clinics, which has 11 US locations and the world's largest database of brain scans for psychiatry with over 250,000 spec scans from 155 countries.

Speaker 28 Committed to revolutionizing brain health, Dr.

Speaker 28 Amon also founded BrainMD, the Change Your Brain Foundation, and Amon University, which has trained thousands thousands of medical and mental health professionals.

Speaker 28 A leading expert in brain and mental health, Dr.

Speaker 28 Amon has millions of followers, produced 17 national public television shows, garnered 300 plus million video views, and hosts the Change Your Brain Everyday podcast.

Speaker 28 If you haven't subscribed, I highly recommend it. He's a 12-time New York Times best-selling author, and Dr.

Speaker 28 Amon's highly anticipated new book, Change Your Brain, Change Your Pain, will be released in 2026. Please welcome back to on purpose, one of our dearest friends of the show, Dr.
Daniel Amon.

Speaker 28 Daniel, it's great to have you here as always. I still remember all the years ago when I launched my podcast.
You came on the first ever year.

Speaker 28 We used to record from my apartment in Hollywood, if you remember.

Speaker 28 And I'm just so grateful that you did.

Speaker 28 You're such a consistent guest.

Speaker 27 I opened one of my books with an experience on the way to the podcast seeing a homeless person. And I'm like, I wonder what his brain looks like.

Speaker 27 I have to say, I love you. Thank you.
I'm honored to be back. I always love our conversations.

Speaker 28 I want to start pretty direct. Why does it seem like everyone today has a DHD?

Speaker 27 A lot of people do,

Speaker 27 but our society is dramatically elevating it

Speaker 27 when you think of of the gadgets that steal our attention,

Speaker 27 the ultra-processed foods that our brain really doesn't like, the chronic stress. It's like, what's the simple answer? And the simple answer is, let me medicate you.
And

Speaker 27 you'll focus better,

Speaker 27 but not for long.

Speaker 27 And so as our society has taken more medication, we have not gotten gotten healthier.

Speaker 27 So I think for people who really have ADD or ADHD, and I use those terms interchangeably because the way we diagnose people, it used to be ADD.

Speaker 27 And by a vote of people, they changed it to ADHD, which I think was actually a big mistake. It's always been there, right? You can actually look in the Old Testament and you go, these people had ADD.

Speaker 27 The real ADD is genetic. You get it from your mom or dad.
You can see it in your people. You can see it in your ancestors.
And left untreated, they're very serious problems.

Speaker 27 So if I think somebody really has ADD and that medicine would help them, they always go, what are the side effects? Always tell them, your appetite will be less.

Speaker 27 Take too late in the day, you may have trouble sleeping.

Speaker 27 Sometimes people get headaches or tummy aches. Those almost always go away.
If you're prone to ticks, you may have more ticks.

Speaker 27 But I want them to ask the other question is what are the side effects of not taking appropriate treatment for ADD?

Speaker 27 And it's things like school failure and drug abuse and incarceration, divorce, bankruptcy.

Speaker 27 I'm so happy we're talking about it because this is a really serious issue Because if you go to places like prison, there's a high percentage of people who have untreated ADD that did not have proper focus or impulse control.

Speaker 28 So, what do you say that is ADHD being overdiagnosed?

Speaker 27 I think it's overdiagnosed and underdiagnosed.

Speaker 27 Overdiagnosed overall because people see this as the simple answer. underdiagnosed, especially in people who are not hyperactive

Speaker 27 or females, because we still have gender bias in this country.

Speaker 27 If you have a little boy and he's not doing well in school, you get really worried because you realize he's going to have to take care of a family someday.

Speaker 27 For a girl, if she's not doing as well, well, you think maybe she's not that smart and you hope she marries somebody nice, which is completely irrational, given that we now have three generations of women who are in the workforce here in California.

Speaker 27 90% of mothers work outside the house. And

Speaker 27 when they have untreated ADD,

Speaker 27 they often look depressed. And they get on something like Lexapro on an SSRI,

Speaker 27 which actually makes them more ADD, but now they don't care that they're more ADD because serotonin, we'll talk about it, they counterbalance each other.

Speaker 27 So serotonin is the neurotransmitter of happiness, of flexibility, dopamine, more the neurotransmitter of focus, motivation.

Speaker 27 Let's follow through and get this done. And when one goes up, so serotonin goes up, someone puts you on an SSRI, dopamine goes down.

Speaker 27 And so happier, but more distracted, happier, less focused, happier, more impulsive.

Speaker 28 Yeah. And I think that's what so many people are feeling today, where they naturally feel a sense of brain fog, they're overwhelmed with information.

Speaker 28 I was reading somewhere that we now consume 72 gigabytes of information per day, which someone had translated to reading 100,000 words every single day, which, when you think about that, that is so overwhelming.

Speaker 28 So how do I know the difference between whether I have ADHD or I'm just distracted because we're living in an overwhelming time?

Speaker 27 So you look for patterns of behavior over time.

Speaker 27 So the hallmark features of ADD or ADHD. The first one is short attention span.
It's really hard to focus, but not for for everything. And this is what fools people.

Speaker 27 It's short attention span for regular routine, everyday things, schoolwork, homework, paperwork, chores, the things that make life work.

Speaker 27 And if you have a half an hour of homework, parents will often say, it takes him or her two hours to do, and I have to structure their time. That's very common.

Speaker 27 But for things that are new, novel, highly stimulating,

Speaker 27 or frightening, people with ADD can pay attention just fine because they have their own intrinsic dopamine. And what I find is love is a drug.
Love is dopamine.

Speaker 27 So say you're getting all C's and D's except one A. And the A, whether it's in history or whatever, it's because you love the teacher or you love the subject.

Speaker 27 But it's not this one thing we should be looking at. It's the pattern of your attention span over time.
The second is they're easily distracted.

Speaker 27 And what that means is they see too much, they hear too much, they taste too much, they smell too much.

Speaker 27 So they're constantly distracted by the world coming at them. The brain is really good at suppressing unnecessary noises or unnecessary thoughts.

Speaker 27 But when your prefrontal cortex, so we'll talk about that, the front part of your brain, the front third of your brain, largest in humans than any other animal by far, when it's sleepy, it can't sort of suppress the noise.

Speaker 27 I grew up three houses from the freeway in Southern California and lots of noise, but I never heard it

Speaker 27 because my brain went, oh, you don't need to listen to that. So it would suppress it.

Speaker 28 So someone who has ADHD can't suppress it.

Speaker 27 Interesting. And so the world comes at them too much.
And you see it with the clothes they wear. They hate seams and they hate tags because their body feels it.
So I've been married twice.

Speaker 27 Both of my wives have ADD of one form or another.

Speaker 27 And the first time when I got married, I went, it's like right after I got married, I went into my closet to get a shirt and I noticed the tag was cut out of my shirt. And I'm like, that's weird.

Speaker 27 And then I looked at all of my shirts and all of the tags were out and I felt violated. And I went into the living room with the shirt and I'm like,

Speaker 27 Why is my shirt missing the tag? She goes, oh, don't you hate tags? Like, I hate tags. I thought you'd really like that I cut cut them all out for you.
And I'm like, I've never felt a tag in my life.

Speaker 27 Please don't damage my clothing.

Speaker 28 That's, yeah, that's fascinating to me. So, because I can relate to what you said, I'm

Speaker 28 very unaffected by outside noise.

Speaker 28 And definitely my brain creates the same boundary that you said yours does, where I could be in a really noisy environment, but I can go totally internal if I'm focused on something. Now,

Speaker 28 does that mean that we're born with ADHD or can we train attention?

Speaker 27 Well, we can train attention, but ADHD I'm talking about is what you're born with. What you see it in your mom, you see it in your dad.
I have, I told you, my first wife had ADD, which means

Speaker 27 three

Speaker 27 of my children have it. So I know more about this than I want to.
And if you think of distractability, what does an orgasm require?

Speaker 27 Focus. You have to pay attention to the feeling long enough

Speaker 27 in order to have an orgasm. And so if that becomes really hard, well, that's a problem for both the person and their partner because their partner will like, oh,

Speaker 27 she doesn't love me or I'm not enough when it has nothing to do with that. It's just they're easily distracted.
People with sort of the real ADD, they need white noise at night.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, it's the middle of winter. It's Washington, D.C., the fan is on.

Speaker 27 Like, why is the fan on? It's like, oh, I need the noise or I won't be able to sleep because I hear everything that's in the house. So short attention span, not for everything.

Speaker 27 Easily distracted, disorganized. So it's hard for them.
It's not natural for them. If you look at their rooms, their desks, their book bags, their filing cabinets, and time.

Speaker 27 They're often late.

Speaker 27 And I like to be early. I'm like,

Speaker 27 if I have a flight, I'm there two hours early because my brain thinks of all the things that could go wrong on the way to the airport. And the flight's important to me.

Speaker 27 People with ADD, it's last minute, last minute. And I used to to fight.
I'm like, no, we need to go. And then I just started lying.
It's like

Speaker 27 the flight is at noon when really it was at one o'clock. And because her organization wasn't such, she didn't really catch on to the training.

Speaker 28 How much of that is training? Like, I feel like I grew up with a mom who is very meticulous with time. So my mom trained me to always believe that if you're not early, you're late.

Speaker 28 And so I also live live in a world that you do, which is I'm always at the airport early. I'm always making sure of anything that could go wrong.
Security could take a bit longer.

Speaker 28 There's so many other things.

Speaker 28 That to me, I've always felt came because I had a mom who was super organized. And I've inherited that by watching her.

Speaker 28 Even now, like my mom trained me how to make sure we locked all the doors at night. And, you know, we didn't grow up in a really safe area.
So there was this very hyper attention to make sure.

Speaker 28 So I'm very good at that.

Speaker 27 And

Speaker 27 it could have been because her brain

Speaker 27 was busy in the front

Speaker 27 and

Speaker 27 she also gave that to you. Yeah.
Right. So, some of it is training.
But if she had ADD, she wouldn't give that to you.

Speaker 27 And you would often be chronically stressed because she wouldn't get you to school on time or she wouldn't be there on time to pick you up.

Speaker 27 Or it's really important you have a soccer practice and you're late.

Speaker 27 The level of stress in ADD, ADHD families is very high

Speaker 27 because of the distractibility, the disorganization. And the fourth one is procrastination.
They don't do things until someone's mad at them to get it done.

Speaker 27 They need stress in order to get stuff done.

Speaker 27 And that just makes everybody around them stressed. And it makes them stress because, you know, they're often late because they actually don't start getting ready until it's like, oh my God, I'm late.

Speaker 27 And then they always show up like either right on time, flustered, or 10 minutes late, always apologizing.

Speaker 28 And that's different from people who perform well under stress. This is someone who needs stress.

Speaker 27 In order to perform.

Speaker 28 In order to perform.

Speaker 27 Right. When I first started imaging, it was on an ADD woman.
So I went into a lecture on brain-specced imaging in my hospital in April 1991, and I walked out and I had a new patient.

Speaker 27 Her name was Sandy, and she was 44, and she was beautiful.

Speaker 27 underemployed. She had an IQ of 144 and she was a laptop.
And she was in the hospital because she had a suicide attempt the night before in an impulsive act when she and her husband had a fight.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, ADD, ADD, ADD. She had an eight-year-old son that had ADD.
And I'm like, I think you have ABD. And she's like, oh, adults can't have it.

Speaker 27 And thinking to myself, but not saying it, because I don't have ABD. It's like, I'm the doctor.
Adults totally can have ADD.

Speaker 27 And I said, can I scan you? Because I've just learned about this new technology. And I scanned her twice, once at rest, once when she did a concentration task.

Speaker 27 And when she tried to concentrate, the front part of her brain shut down

Speaker 27 rather than what it should have done was turn on. And I put the, this is why I love imaging, I put the scans on her hospital table and I was explaining to them and she started to cry.

Speaker 27 And she said, you mean it's not my fault?

Speaker 27 And that's the moment I got hooked on imaging because I already knew the diagnosis. She, it immediately evaporated shame.

Speaker 27 And then she's like, all right, let's talk about adult ADD.

Speaker 27 And she had all of the things, including the impulse control issues. But because she was so bright, she didn't bring enough negative attention to herself and never gotten the help.

Speaker 27 And after I treated her, she finished college. She stopped picking on her husband.

Speaker 27 Because another trait that a lot of people don't understand is they become negative seeking, conflict seeking, and excitement seeking. And those are all dopamine driven behaviors.

Speaker 27 So if you have a low level of dopamine, well, if you pick a fight with someone, now all of a sudden there's some excitement going on.

Speaker 27 If you jump out of an airplane, that has a whole bunch of dopamine associated with it.

Speaker 27 And I experienced this. It was that poking.
It's like, we're going on a vacation. Why are we having a problem?

Speaker 27 And

Speaker 27 activating their frontal lobes, they're less negative. And I'm just publishing a study on negativity bias.
So I'm very interested in: are you positive or are you negative?

Speaker 27 Now, unbridled positive thinking is a disaster. You die early.
But negative thinking, you actually have low function in your frontal lobes.

Speaker 27 And many of the ADD people I see tend to see the glass as half empty. And that wears on them.

Speaker 27 So if we highlight the short attention span, not for everything, disorganization, procrastination, impulse control, it's like the break in their brain is vulnerable and

Speaker 27 they say things often that you shouldn't say. It's like the inside voice gets out.
They do things that it's like,

Speaker 27 wish I hadn't done that. So they actually live

Speaker 27 with a lot of regret.

Speaker 27 And your prefrontal cortex is called the executive part of the brain because it's like the boss at work.

Speaker 27 It's involved in focus, forethought, judgment, impulse control, organization, planning, empathy, learning from the mistakes you make. And when it's sleepy,

Speaker 27 you have all those problems, which just describes ADD.

Speaker 27 And

Speaker 27 strengthening it

Speaker 27 is critical to your humanity.

Speaker 27 Did you know that sociopaths have 10% less volume in their prefrontal cortex? So they're a little less human, if you will.

Speaker 28 Even 10% has that impact.

Speaker 27 10%.

Speaker 27 It's huge. And this is why you should never let a child hit a soccer ball with their forehead.
It's just so stupid.

Speaker 27 And like, I'm not a huge fan of allowing kids to play tackle football because it's more likely to damage the part of them that

Speaker 27 is the boss. And

Speaker 27 people who have ADD are often executives of their own companies because they don't work well often often with other people.

Speaker 27 And so they're entrepreneurial and some wildly famous people have said they had ADD, like the person who started JetBlue. He was public with that.
It can look false. It can be masquerade.

Speaker 27 You have ADD because your parents gave you an iPhone when you were a year old. And I think we're wising up.
That's not a good thing to do. But still,

Speaker 27 children should not have smartphones until they're 15, 16. Social media, Australia banned social media under 16.
I think that's so

Speaker 27 great, right? Taking the neuroscience and making it public policy.

Speaker 27 California, you can't start school in the morning before 8 o'clock, taking what we know with neuroscience, kids who get just an hour less sleep have a higher incidence of depression and suicide.

Speaker 27 So, all right, cut out the zero periods. I love that.
Neuroscience and then public policy.

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Speaker 27 Hey, audiobook lovers. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with musician, producer, and walking encyclopedia, Quest Love.

Speaker 27 We're talking about Mark Ronson's memoir, Night People, How How to Be a DJ in 90s New York City.

Speaker 27 All right, like we talked about before, Mark Ronson found sanctuary in the DJ booth. What's a tool or piece of equipment in the studio or on stage that gives you the most control?

Speaker 27 So, I have two microphones on stage.

Speaker 27 We have the microphone that you hear as the audience, then we have a second microphone in which we communicate with each other. I feel like that second microphone kind of saved all of our friendships.

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Speaker 27 The Beatles broke up in seven and a half years, and we're going on 35.

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Speaker 28 Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now, back to the discussion.
Do we know what causes ADHD?

Speaker 27 It's genetic. People are not producing enough dopamine.
And the medicines we use, like Ritalin or Adderall, they increase the availability of dopamine.

Speaker 27 Now, the problem is, is if you don't really have it, what you have is societally induced ADHD, the medicine will disrupt you and make you worse. And early on,

Speaker 27 I realized when I scanned people, because I've scanned 30 or 40,000 people who have ADD of one type or another, it's not one thing. Early on, I'm like, oh, it's seven different things.

Speaker 27 And so, my book, Healing ADD, I talk about see and heal the seven types. And so,

Speaker 27 can I talk about the type?

Speaker 28 I was just about to ask my next question.

Speaker 28 You're already one step ahead of me. So,

Speaker 27 let me also. Type one is the classic.

Speaker 27 Most people think of ADHD: short attention span, distractibility, disorganization, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. They can't sit still.

Speaker 27 And one of my kids, when she was born, we thought she was going to be a boy because in her mother's womb, she was so active.

Speaker 27 And the lore is, the more active a baby is inside their mother, the more likely they are to be a boy. She wasn't.
When I held her older sister, we could watch movies. She'd sit on my lap.

Speaker 27 She was just calm. Her sister, when you tried to hold her, was like trying to hold a live salmon.
She's so wiggly. And then I take her to the mall.

Speaker 27 She would have been one of those children on the little yellow leashes, the big bird leashes in the mall. But I wrote a column in the local newspaper.
So when I went to the mall, people recognized me.

Speaker 27 It's like, oh, Dr. Eyman, I loved your column.
Why is your child on a leash? So what I used to do with Caitlin is put her in her stroller and tie her shoes together so she couldn't get out.

Speaker 27 Because she's like, where are you going? And I remember just holding her hand. I take my little pinky and wrap it around her wrist because, and I had spiritual problems because of this child.

Speaker 27 We would go to church, and I don't know why Catholics take children into church rather than, you know, send them to children's church. But anyways, she was so active and blurting out.

Speaker 27 And I'm like the only child psychiatrist in the county.

Speaker 27 And if my child is the worst one, one, that's bad for business. So I used to take her out and threaten her life.
And now I'm worried about her eternal soul. And I adore her, and she's 37 now.

Speaker 27 And Haven

Speaker 27 is just like her, which is, you know, my six-year-old granddaughter is just like her.

Speaker 27 It's genetic. And when we first got her diagnosed, the doctor, who was really great, looked at me and then looked at her mother and goes, so who has this? Because it's genetic.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, it's not me. I do everything early.
I've now written 42 books. Every one of them has been handed in early.
And her mom goes, it's not me.

Speaker 27 But then I was so grateful because it took her like 12 years to get through college. And she just, she asked her this one question.
This is a great adult ADD question.

Speaker 27 Because she was still in college at the time. She goes, how do you study? She goes, oh, I can never study at home.
I get so distracted.

Speaker 27 I go inside my little car, underneath a street lamp, no kids, no noise, nothing. There I can study.
And the doctor goes, You have ABB.

Speaker 27 It was very helpful for me.

Speaker 27 And that's type one.

Speaker 27 That's type one. It's classic.
Type two

Speaker 27 is inattentive ABB,

Speaker 27 short attention span, distractibility,

Speaker 27 disorganized, procrastinate, but they're not impulsive. And more common in girls, they're not hyperactive.
In fact, they can be a little bit hypoactive.

Speaker 27 And those first two types were described in the DSM when they first created this diagnostic category in 1980. I described the next five types.

Speaker 27 The third one is over-focused ADD, where the problem is not so much you can't concentrate, it's you can't shift your attention, that you get stuck.

Speaker 27 And if you can't shift your attention, you cannot pay attention. But it's a different mechanism.
And I found this to be particularly true in children and grandchildren of alcoholics.

Speaker 27 And they tend to be argumentative, oppositional, worry. If things don't go their way, they get upset.
And on the surface, they appear selfish. They're really not selfish.
They're just not flexible.

Speaker 27 And stimulants tend to make them more worried and more upset. Type four is called limbic ADD.
It's where their emotional brain is too busy. And it's sort of like ADZ plus

Speaker 27 mild depression. And the glass is always half empty.
for them. Type five, which I think is such an interesting one, is temporal lobe ADD.

Speaker 27 They have problems in one or both of their temporal lobes, often goes with learning problems, but mood instability, irritability, temper problems. One of my first great cases was Chris.

Speaker 27 It's his third psychiatric hospitalization. This time, he took a pencil and put it in the neck of one of his classmates.
Stimulants made him hallucinate, all the other medicines.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, I'm scanning you. And he had left temporal lobe problem, which goes with violence.
I put him on an anticonvulsant, an anti-seizure medicine. Became the sweetest kid.

Speaker 27 And then he still had trouble concentrating. So then, after I got the temporal lobe right, I gave him a stimulant.
Masterful. I mean, this kid just did phenomenally well.

Speaker 27 And then the ring of fire, that's the one I may be most known for. The problem is not low activity, it's too much activity.

Speaker 27 Please don't give them a stimulant because they can become violent and aggressive. Actually, use a supplement to calm things down in their brain.
Very effective.

Speaker 27 And then the last one's anxious, ADD, where they're really anxious. And so they tend to be early to things, but disorganized, distracted, so on.

Speaker 27 So knowing the type, and that's why Ritalin has a bad reputation. For the right brain, it's miraculous.
For the wrong brain, it's a nightmare.

Speaker 28 A lot of people who have ADHD say they feel emotions much more strongly and deeply. Can they start to regulate their emotions? Is there a way to do that? Or is that medication?

Speaker 27 Well, and sometimes with the medicine, they don't like it because it feels like it suppresses their emotions. Interesting.

Speaker 27 And my daughter, Caitlin, when I put her on retalin, because she was hyperactive. And then she was dramatically less hyperactive.

Speaker 27 But I found I had to titrate the dose down because I could see it putting a lid on her personality, which is not what you want to do.

Speaker 27 And so often you want to work with someone who's really knowledgeable to titrate the dose up and down effectively. If

Speaker 27 you're a baseball player, so just thinking of athletes, the medicine gives you a better batting average.

Speaker 27 If you're a linebacker in football, you might be a little bit less aggressive because you're more thoughtful. Right.
So if you want to play with abandon, you probably don't want a stimulant on board.

Speaker 27 But I find for some of my professional athletes, they're just much more focused and less likely to get technical fouls because they're not a hothead.

Speaker 27 And when you see the world like I see it and you're watching

Speaker 27 someone have a meltdown on the court, I'm like, I wonder what's going on in that person's brain, right? Rather than just judge them as bad. I haven't scanned Draymond Green, but I want to.

Speaker 28 I saw a study that found that children with untreated ADHD are nearly twice as likely to develop an alcohol use disorder or other substance abuse problem. Why is that?

Speaker 27 Because of the lack of impulse control. And they don't like how they feel, right? If you've been told every day to settle down or you brought negative attention to yourself over time, it activates

Speaker 27 your emotional brain. And you want to settle it down, and you don't have good forethought or good impulse control.
And you're more likely to drink. And it's just so prevalent.

Speaker 27 Plus, with society, during the Super Bowl, there were 30 beer commercials, and the rest of them were jack-in-the-boxes, right?

Speaker 27 So it's like we're just being flooded with these awful messages that take people who have ADD, make them more ADD, and then they engage in habits that aren't helpful.

Speaker 28 Do you think there should be a ban on alcohol advertisements as much as there is, obviously, on smoking?

Speaker 27 Yeah, it's not a health food. I mean, the American Cancer Society came out three years ago

Speaker 27 and said you shouldn't drink. because it increases your risk of seven different types of cancer.
The surgeon general last year said we should put alcohol, cancer warning label signs on alcohol.

Speaker 27 I think when you just look at our society from the digital addictions and social media and technology to the bad food, the ultra-processed food that so many people, that's 80 or 90% of their diet, to marijuana is innocuous, which is a complete lie.

Speaker 27 Alcohol is a health food, no. And now the big new thing is psilocybin.
It's great medicine. It's an antidepressant.
It'll treat your PTSD.

Speaker 27 And it's increased psychosis to emergency rooms 300%.

Speaker 27 It is not innocuous. Now, might it become a good treatment? I don't know.
But I feel like I've seen this party before, right? One of the big benefits of being 70 is you've seen lots of things.

Speaker 27 The early 80s, benzos are innocuous. They're mommy little helper.
We know benzos are highly addictive and increase the risk of dementia.

Speaker 27 The early 90s, alcohol is good for your heart. You should drink.
It's a lie. You shouldn't drink.
It increases your risk of stupidity and cancer, right?

Speaker 27 And if you're ADD and you have sleepy frontal lobes, now you drink, you have sleepier frontal lobes still. not a good thing.
And then pain is the fifth vital sign, right?

Speaker 27 The Purdue Pharmaceuticals came out with, let's get more people to take opiates and came out with these campaigns and spent billions of dollars on marketing. And

Speaker 27 it was a disaster. And then the whole marijuana is innocuous.
During not this presidential campaign, the last one, Joe Biden was debating.

Speaker 27 And they asked him, should the federal government legalize marijuana? And he said, no, I don't think there's enough research.

Speaker 27 And Corey Booker, the senator from New Jersey, shames him on national television. And he said, man,

Speaker 27 are you high?

Speaker 27 Like,

Speaker 27 the science is settled. Well, as more places legalize it, the science is getting settled.
It's bad for us, right?

Speaker 27 If you use as a teenager, it increases anxiety, depression, psychosis, and suicide in your 20s. I published a study on a thousand marijuana users.
Every area of the brain is lower in blood flow.

Speaker 27 And I got so much grief for it. And two months ago, in JAMA psychiatry, on a thousand marijuana users, the memory and learning centers are lower in blood flow and activity.
This is not innocuous.

Speaker 27 It's all these lies that then increase the expression of ADD.

Speaker 27 And so, you know, how do you know? You look at someone's history over time, right? All of us have ADD moments,

Speaker 27 but that's not ADD. Having ADD is these hallmark symptoms have followed you most of your life.

Speaker 28 So for parents who are listening right now and they're starting to see a young child maybe have one of the types or some of the symptoms, what would you encourage them to do?

Speaker 27 You know, I have a free online online test called addtype test.com. They could take that.
For people, if you've been struggling and it's like you really believe it's not just environmental, right?

Speaker 27 I mean, the first thing, if your child's struggling in school, make sure they're not taking their iPad to bed. So often, it's because kids are sleep deprived.

Speaker 27 They look like they have ADD because parents are really not properly supervising the kids. do a digital detox.

Speaker 27 And then I have to say this, because there's this great study published in The Lancet, replicated that when you put kids on an elimination diet, so what does that mean?

Speaker 27 You eliminate gluten, dairy, corn, soy, artificial dyes, and sweeteners, 70% of the kids lost their ADD.

Speaker 28 No way.

Speaker 27 So the first thing

Speaker 27 is not,

Speaker 27 let me give you this drug. In my mind, the first thing is do a digital detox and do an elimination diet and do it for a month.
And it's like, oh, I can't do that. It's like, it's not that hard.

Speaker 27 My wife, Tana, wrote a cookbook, Healing ADD at Home Through Food or The Brain Warrior's Way. That's her big cookbook.
It's been reprinted like 53 times. I'm so proud of her.

Speaker 27 And find foods the kids love that love them back.

Speaker 27 Food is so

Speaker 27 important.

Speaker 27 Do that first. And I always tell, I'm like, look, if they really have ADD or ADHD, they're going to have it three months from now or four months from now.
Let's do this

Speaker 27 and see.

Speaker 27 I have an online course called Healing ADD at Home in 30 Days. And it's basically, before you give them medicine,

Speaker 27 do these things

Speaker 27 first.

Speaker 27 And it's so helpful.

Speaker 28 Why does changing our diet affect affect ADHD? Why does removing gluten, removing processed foods, et cetera, why does that impact it?

Speaker 27 Your brain is 2% about your body's weight. It uses 20% to 30% of the calories you consume.
And so if you have a fast food diet, you're likely to have a fast food mind.

Speaker 27 And both gluten and dairy, when they go to your stomach, when it mixes with stomach acid, it turns into something called gluteomorphins, which work on the heroin centers or the opiate centers of your brain.

Speaker 27 And it just sort of spaces you out. For milk, it's caseomorphins, and it's why we love pizza.
If you think of gluten and dairy, right, it's pizza.

Speaker 27 But it's also why you feel spacey afterwards. And too often, what do we feed kids? Like when I was growing up, it was frosted flakes or Pop-Tarts or a muffin or donuts.
And

Speaker 27 if you get a sugar burst, well, a half an hour later, your brain is walking in mud.

Speaker 27 And yet, that's what we feed children in the morning. ADD kids who have protein in the morning, their medicine works longer throughout the day.

Speaker 27 And so in the 50s, you know, we grew up with bacon and eggs and

Speaker 27 much

Speaker 27 better than the processed cereals.

Speaker 28 I love your thoughts on how to do it before we get to medicine, like before we get to medication, looking at technology, looking at our diet.

Speaker 28 And that way you could potentially save yourself from having to go down the medicine route.

Speaker 27 Right. And then parents who are generally resistant to the idea of medicine medicine and perhaps more so than they should be.

Speaker 27 Because I think if someone really has ADD, withholding medicine is like withholding glasses from someone who can't see. And that's neglect.
And we're in this society, right?

Speaker 27 The more educated you are, it's like, oh, no, I'd never give. my child medicine.
And then all of a sudden you see they're failing in school.

Speaker 27 And if you struggle in school, you begin to hang out with the other kids who are struggling, which may not be ultimately in their best interest.

Speaker 27 If you haven't been diagnosed by the time you're 10,

Speaker 27 odds are your self-esteem has been negatively impacted because people have said repeatedly to you,

Speaker 27 You're smarter than this. You could do better than this.
Try harder. But what I showed on the scans, when they try to concentrate, their brain drops in activity.
In fact, the harder they try,

Speaker 27 the worse it gets.

Speaker 28 Why is that?

Speaker 27 Because their brain is turning off when it should be.

Speaker 28 The frontal lobe.

Speaker 27 Turning off their frontal lobe. If you don't have enough dopamine to keep your frontal lobe engaged, it sort of withers with effort.
And what does that teach you to give up?

Speaker 27 It's this idea of learned helplessness. There's a psychologist who's really famous, Marty Seligman.
You probably know of him because he's famous for positive psychology. He helped start that movement.

Speaker 27 But he was way famous before then because he coined this term, learned helplessness. With depression, it's like you try and it doesn't work.
You try and it doesn't work. You try and it doesn't work.

Speaker 27 And then you say to hell with it and you stop trying. And that happens with so many people who have ADD.
In fact, when I diagnose and treat an adult woman, a common scenario,

Speaker 27 she brings her hyperactive son to me. And I'm like, where did this come from? And say it comes from the mom.
And then I treat her. She gets dramatically better.
And then she gets depressed.

Speaker 27 because she starts thinking about what would my life have been like if someone would have noticed this, if I would have been treated. Now,

Speaker 27 you don't give her an antidepressant for that. You do grief work with her.

Speaker 27 Okay, but now you know, so your son doesn't have to go through this and

Speaker 27 you don't want to argue with the past. You want to look forward.

Speaker 28 Have you seen people break the cycle as we're talking about? It's genetically passed down. Have you seen it in your parents? Have you seen that be possible?

Speaker 28 Is it possible to break the cycle completely so that you don't pass it on?

Speaker 27 You know, I think so, but we're starting at such a disadvantage. And, you know, as I think, because you know, my real passion in life is to create a brain health revolution.
And

Speaker 27 where would that start? It has to start with kids before they have babies. Because when that mother was born, she was born with all of the eggs in her ovaries she will ever have.

Speaker 27 And so if we're going to help her children be healthier, we have to get to her when she's a child and help her make really good decisions when she's a teenager.

Speaker 27 And too often parents go, oh, I don't have control. And they abdicate their parental role over teenagers on who they hang out with and what they eat and

Speaker 27 you know we're not drinking together and we're not smoking pot together and you know like all the insanity that's going on in our society today i think we have to get to their ovaries early

Speaker 27 because

Speaker 27 If you're born with all of the eggs you'll ever have, whatever you do in life turns on or off certain genes, making illness more or less likely in you, yes, but also your babies and grandbabies.

Speaker 27 So that's how we decrease the incidence is we get mom and dad, because his sperm really matters, to be as healthy as possible.

Speaker 28 I read in the National Institute of Mental Health, they found that 5.4% of adult men and 3.2% of adult women have ADHD.

Speaker 28 Why do you believe that ADHD is more common in men?

Speaker 27 Well, Well, it is more common.

Speaker 27 Because men have sleepier frontal lobes than women.

Speaker 27 So I published the world's largest imaging study on gender and looked at the difference in 46,000 patients, difference between male brains and female brains.

Speaker 27 Females have much stronger, much more active prefrontal cortex. Men have sleepier prefrontal cortex.
And what's the one statistic that identifies that? Who goes to jail? Men.

Speaker 27 14 times

Speaker 27 more than females. So they have a relative dopamine deficit compared to females.
But girls still have it. And when left untreated, it just devastates their lives.

Speaker 27 And how you can diagnose it in a teenage girl is just look at their love pattern. It's they get all excited about falling in love, dopamine burst.
After it wears off, right?

Speaker 27 It's like, don't get married in the next two months because you never really know.

Speaker 27 After the dopamine wears off, the cocaine effect wears off, they start picking on their partner and they start fighting.

Speaker 27 And so new love, fighting, and then they break up and there's lots of drama around breaking up and they get suicidal sometimes and then they fall in love again, and then they pick on their new person, and then they break up, and lots of drama around it.

Speaker 27 And if you see that pattern repeatedly, screen them for ADD. Very important.

Speaker 28 How does ADHD show up differently for men and women?

Speaker 27 So men tend to be more hyperactive. Women tend to have more the inattentive type.
Women also tend to have the over-focused type more.

Speaker 27 Men, the temporal temporal lobe type, because the temporal lobe type can be in part born out of a concussion or a head injury.

Speaker 27 And you know, people who have ADD have way more concussions and accidents.

Speaker 27 And the reason for that is the shorter attention span and impulse control issues.

Speaker 28 I think as I'm sitting here listening to you and trying to understand just how

Speaker 28 Even the way you broke down the seven types of ADHD, you start to think about how ADHD doesn't just affect an individual's focus and attention and performance at school.

Speaker 28 As you rightly said earlier, it starts to affect your relationships, right?

Speaker 28 If you have a parent, and I want to talk about all of these independently, if you have a parent that has ADHD and they have passed or haven't passed it on to you, that has an impact on you.

Speaker 28 If you're dating someone, you were talking about your first two wives when you're dating someone who has ADHD, that has an impact on you.

Speaker 28 If you have adhd and you're dating someone who doesn't that has an impact on you and them it starts to impact all areas of life and because we have such a limited understanding of it we can get frustrated when someone clips out our labels or we can get upset when someone is always late and we say oh you don't care about me you're always late like it can actually start to become more emotional than it is just biological, chemical and physical.

Speaker 27 It's biological for sure. Yeah.
That it gives you psychological effects. And the chronic stress damages your immune system for you and the people who love you.
Clearly social.

Speaker 27 I think one of the reasons for divorce is untreated ADD. I think it's often the hidden cause.
And it's spiritual because you just believe you're less than, that

Speaker 27 God, however you see God, doesn't care about you.

Speaker 28 What do do we do with that feeling? Because that's the feeling for people who have ADHD and they feel they're failing at life. They feel they're underperforming.

Speaker 28 They feel like they're not going to succeed. But earlier, you were saying to me, actually, some of the greatest CEOs of big companies are people with ADHD.

Speaker 28 But first, here's a quick word from the brands that support the show.

Speaker 6 Do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or OSA in adults with obesity? obesity?

Speaker 23 Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com.

Speaker 28 We all want to live with more purpose, more connection and more joy.

Speaker 28 Sometimes that starts with a small piece of wisdom, a perspective shift, a grounding practice or a story that makes you feel less alone. On TikTok, those moments are being shared every single day.

Speaker 28 Millions are finding people who show meditation techniques, discuss the science of the mind, or share daily habits that many find helpful.

Speaker 28 Others are opening up about their own journeys, talking about well-being, resilience and healing in ways that can make you feel seen. And what stands out is the way it's shared.

Speaker 28 Ideas spread quickly and support can grow from a single post. And it all happens in a welcoming and supportive space.
TikTok stimulates your mind in more ways than one.

Speaker 28 It's a place for learning, for mindfulness, for tools that support healthier habits and reflections.

Speaker 28 If you're searching for growth and connection that resonates with your own unique journey, you'll find it on TikTok.

Speaker 27 Hey, everyone, Ed Helms here. And hi, I'm Cal Penn, and we're the hosts of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

Speaker 27 This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast, I choose me,

Speaker 27 to discuss the new audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic, Pride Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question.
There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

Speaker 27 You know what?

Speaker 1 I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

Speaker 1 You got a little call-in first.

Speaker 27 Okay, that's really sweet.

Speaker 27 I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad? I mean, I'm not Mr. Bennett here.

Speaker 27 Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 28 All right. Thank you to our sponsors.
Now let's dive back in. So walk me through.

Speaker 28 If someone's sitting here thinking, well, I'm not going to achieve anything with my life because I've got ADHD, what would you say to them?

Speaker 27 You're responsible to get it treated.

Speaker 27 Because with treatment, you can be

Speaker 27 amazing because you often have the ability to see things other people don't see.

Speaker 27 And it's the undisciplined mind

Speaker 27 that creates so much trouble. So, you know, at Amon Clinics, we want to look at your brain, of course.
We want to get it healthy.

Speaker 27 And we get it healthy, whether it's diet, supplements, exercise, medicine, whatever tools we have.

Speaker 27 A lot of people do really well with neurofeedback, where you can actually measure the electrical activity in your brain and then through exercises, strengthen it.

Speaker 27 So I like neurofeedback a lot, but then you also have to reprogram your mind. And I talk about killing the ants, the automatic negative thoughts that steal your happiness.

Speaker 27 And people who have ADD often have a high negativity bias. And so learning to direct your thoughts in a positive, in a helpful, in a hopeful way is absolutely critical to overcome it.

Speaker 27 The first exercise I do with all of my patients, but particularly my ADD patients, it's called the one-page miracle. On one piece of paper, write down what you want.
Relationships. What do you want?

Speaker 27 Like with Tana, I want a kind, caring, loving, supportive, passionate relationship. Don't always feel it.
I get rude thoughts that show up, but I don't say them. Why?

Speaker 27 Because I inhibit them because they don't fit. Most people in life don't do this exercise, which I find crazy.
What do you want your

Speaker 27 work or school? What do you want for your money? What do you want for your physical health, your emotional health, your spiritual health? What do you want? We put it on one paper.

Speaker 27 And then the question always becomes, does it fit? Does my behavior fit the goals I have for my life? So that's what your prefrontal cortex does, right?

Speaker 27 It sets goals and helps you continue to achieve them them despite the obstacles that you have.

Speaker 27 So I remember I'm in college and I want to go to medical school and I took organic chemistry and I got a 42 on my first test.

Speaker 27 And I'm like,

Speaker 27 okay, this is going to be an obstacle. Get a tutor.
And I ended up obviously going to medical school, but it's your pre, if it's low, you get a 42 and then you give up.

Speaker 27 You don't have that persistence. But the first step always is what do you want? Is my behavior getting me?

Speaker 27 What I want. And they often come into my office and they go, Dr.
Eamon, I'm brutally honest. And in my mind, I'm like, oh, they have ADD.

Speaker 27 And then I'm like, but that's usually not helpful. Relationships require.
tact. They require forethought.
Jerry Seinfeld once said, the brain is a sneaky organ.

Speaker 27 We all have weird, crazy, stupid, sexual, violent thoughts that nobody should ever hear. But when you have ABD, your inside voice gets out

Speaker 27 when

Speaker 27 it can be hurtful.

Speaker 27 So that's the first step. Know what you want.
And then is my behavior getting me what I want? And if my behavior is not getting me what I want, is my brain.

Speaker 27 Could my brain be better?

Speaker 28 And therefore, that relates to the treatment. Because I think a lot of people are waking up every day and they're thinking, kind of like what you said, that learned helplessness.

Speaker 28 They're like, well, I'm eating right and I am working out and I am trying to be motivated. Or maybe even I don't make it to the workout every day, I'm really trying.

Speaker 28 But every time I try, I just lose motivation and I lose energy. Is that something you hear quite often?

Speaker 27 I do. And that's why we scan people twice, once at rest, once when they concentrate.
And if their brain drops with activity, it's like, okay, we have to treat this.

Speaker 27 And, you know, we can try to treat it with supplements. And I like them a lot.
I own Brain MD and I want to support you.

Speaker 27 People who take EPA fish oil, omega-3 fatty acids, helps with ADD, also helps with mood. There are five studies with saffron, the spice saffron, as effective as Ritalin in some studies.

Speaker 28 That's amazing.

Speaker 27 And it helps 25 randomized controlled trials that saffron helps with depression compared to antidepressants. So I love saffron.

Speaker 28 I haven't eaten saffron since I was a kid because

Speaker 28 it's in the Indian diet. It's a very staple thing.

Speaker 27 Right. And there's lore in India.
If you're too happy, you must have had saffron. Omega-3 fatty acids, B vitamins, pygnoginol, which is from pine bark, has been found to be helpful.

Speaker 27 So I start based on your type. Okay, here are the supplements.
Let's get your diet right. And then if those things don't work, then I think, well, we should consider medication.

Speaker 28 Yeah, I'm so glad that you're so clear on that. I know whenever there's a new discovery, I'm always texting you going, what do you think about this? And what do you think about that?

Speaker 28 Because I appreciate your perspective because it's not coming from an opinion and it's not coming from a single case.

Speaker 28 And as I'm listening to you today, what I really take away is that everything is so specific and everything is so individual and personal.

Speaker 28 It's not like, like you were saying, like some medication could actually be brilliant and you said even miraculous for someone's brain.

Speaker 28 But if it's a different type of brain, it doesn't work that well. But we have this one size fits all model that we keep rolling out.

Speaker 28 Why do we even get to make these big claims of something being innocuous or something being the perfect cure or alcohol is good for your heart or everything that you've been mentioning?

Speaker 27 Well, you just have to follow the money. How is it legal to say? A lot of it is

Speaker 27 driven by the alcohol industry, the marijuana industry, and now, you know, all of these billionaires investing in mushrooms and psilocybin. And I'm like a huge fan of Lion's Mane.

Speaker 27 And we make something called smart mushrooms. But you have to be very careful with something that disrupts someone's brain and someone's mind.
And for some people, it can be helpful.

Speaker 27 For other people, it's a nightmare. And I'm like, first do no harm.

Speaker 27 Right.

Speaker 27 And so the first thing, if you're depressed or you have PTSD, is let's get your diet right and let's get you to exercise and not believe every stupid thing you think and take omega-3 fatty acids or if you have PTSD, EMDR.

Speaker 27 I'm a huge fan of a psychotherapy called eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's like first do no harm.
Let's make sure we're doing the simple things first.

Speaker 28 I really wanted to talk to you today about dating someone with ADHD. Our community asks us so many questions about dating, marriage, being in a relationship.

Speaker 28 And as I'm listening to you today, it's very evident that sometimes our issue with our partners is because of their ADHD.

Speaker 28 And if you're coming from a family where you didn't have that, now someone being late or now someone being disorganized or now someone overthinking kind of causes you an issue with how you like life to function.

Speaker 28 The amount of people that say to me, like, oh, you know, he just never wants to organize a trip, or, you know, she's always late, or whatever it may be, that's very common to hear.

Speaker 28 If you're dating someone, or in your case, married to someone with ADHD, what should you be prepared for? And what should you be thinking about?

Speaker 27 So, Tana has said publicly she has ADHD. We actually did a PBS show, healing ADD, and she talked about it.
And

Speaker 27 our first date, like I had no idea she had ADD, but when she described her mom, she's classic ADHD. And Tana just thought it was an excuse to fail.
Oh, this person has ADD.

Speaker 27 And then she realized her overexercising, the pot of coffee every day. That's like, oh, no, I do have this.

Speaker 27 And she's not as organized as I am and never met a rapper she actually wanted to throw away. And I remember being irritated about the rapper.
And then I thought I had this very

Speaker 27 interesting vision:

Speaker 27 I saw the counter clean

Speaker 27 without her there. And I got really sad.

Speaker 27 And so I'm like, that's just not worth the fight.

Speaker 27 Throw the rapper away. And

Speaker 27 she's so awesome in so many ways. And she has the anxious ADD type.
So she's always on time. So that's not an issue.
And we hire people that organize her. And it just is fine.
But

Speaker 27 if she wasn't as kind as she was, if she didn't love me, yeah, I wouldn't be with her.

Speaker 27 I was with Dean Ornish. Do you know Dean Ornish? I know the name.
He's an internist, but he's written a lot of work on diet and health. And he wrote this one book called Love and Survival.

Speaker 27 And it's one of my favorite books I ever read. And as I was with him, I was like a little kid, excited to talk to him.

Speaker 27 And because with my first wife, I mean, you can have all the ADD things, but if there's not love,

Speaker 27 it's not worth it. And I read in his book, he said he talked, there was a study from the Cleveland Clinic, and they asked 10,000 men one question.

Speaker 27 Does your wife show you her love?

Speaker 27 Right. And you can interpret it anyway.
And I remember reading it at like 10 o'clock at night because I was reading myself to sleep. And I woke up with crushing chest pain.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, this relationship is killing me.

Speaker 27 This is so important. When you're with someone, the issue is really not do they have ADD or not.
It's do they fit?

Speaker 27 or not?

Speaker 27 And are they willing to get help

Speaker 27 or not? Like if you date one of my kids for more than six months, I'm scanning you. It's just like you're not in my mind.
You're not even dating until I see your brain. That's amazing.

Speaker 27 Because if you have ADD or you played football

Speaker 27 and you have concussions, I want you to be serious

Speaker 27 about taking care of it.

Speaker 28 Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from our sponsors.

Speaker 12 This is Sophie Cunningham from show me something do you know the symptoms of moderate to severe obstructive sleep apnea or osa in adults with obesity they may be happening to you without you knowing if anyone has ever said you snored loudly or if you spend your days fighting off excessive tiredness irritability and concentration issues it may be due to osa OSA is a serious condition where your airway partially or completely collapses during sleep, which may cause breathing interruptions and oxygen deprivation.

Speaker 23 Learn more at don'tsleeponosa.com.

Speaker 28 We all want to live with more purpose, more connection, and more joy.

Speaker 28 Sometimes that starts with a small piece of wisdom, a perspective shift, a grounding practice, or a story that makes you feel less alone. On TikTok, Those moments are being shared every single day.

Speaker 28 Millions are finding people who show meditation techniques, discuss the science of the mind, or share daily habits that many find helpful.

Speaker 28 Others are opening up about their own journeys, talking about well-being, resilience and healing in ways that can make you feel seen. And what stands out is the way it's shared.

Speaker 28 Ideas spread quickly and support can grow from a single post. And it all happens in a welcoming and supportive space.
TikTok stimulates your mind in more ways than one.

Speaker 28 It's a place for learning, for mindfulness, for tools that support healthier habits and reflections.

Speaker 28 If you're searching for growth and connection that resonates with your own unique journey, you'll find it on TikTok.

Speaker 27 Hey, everyone, Ed Helms here. And hi, I'm Cal Penn, and we're the hosts of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

Speaker 27 This week, on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast, I choose me, to discuss the new audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic, Pride and Prejudice.

Speaker 27 This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer.
What role would I play?

Speaker 27 You know what?

Speaker 1 I can see you as Mr. Darcy.

Speaker 1 You got a little call in Firth.

Speaker 27 Okay, that's really sweet.

Speaker 27 I appreciate that, but are you sure I'm not the dad? I mean, I'm not Mr. Bennett here.

Speaker 27 Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 28 And back to our episode. Yeah.

Speaker 28 So, wait, they come over to dinner, you press a button, the wall opens up, there's like this surgical.

Speaker 27 I send them to the clinic.

Speaker 28 I thought you might have an undercover clinic, like a bat cave in your house, and like you just, you know, that sort of like the movie Meet the Parents. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly.

Speaker 28 That's brilliant.

Speaker 28 I've heard a lot of people say to me, and I love your example that you just gave about the rapper, because I think I've had friends who've gone through that where they're like, I believe you love me, but I just feel like you don't care because you aren't on time, because you don't do the dishes.

Speaker 28 But then you do it sometimes. You do it when it suits you, or you do it for your friends, but not me.

Speaker 27 Because they have more dopamine. Right.

Speaker 28 So yeah, talk to me about that because you could see your

Speaker 28 partner who's like able to organize dinner for your friends, but then when it comes to you, they can't set a date.

Speaker 27 In a way, it almost sounds like they're pushing on a wound.

Speaker 27 And one of the things I learned, and I actually learned it from Tana, she grew up in a crazy home. So her ACE score, do you know the ACE adverse childhood experiences?

Speaker 27 So on a scale of zero to 10, how many bad things happened to you as a kid?

Speaker 27 And if you have four or more, it's like physical, emotional, sexual abuse, neglect, neglect, watching your mother being abused, being raised with someone who goes to jail, has a mental illness, an addiction.

Speaker 27 So if you have four or more, you have an increased risk of seven of the top 10 leading causes of death. If you have six or more, you die 20 years earlier.
Tan is an eight.

Speaker 27 And we adopted both of our nieces, who are nines.

Speaker 27 And when you see untreated ADD, you see it throughout both of their families, right? Untreated ADD can go with trauma.

Speaker 27 And her earliest memory, or one of them, is her mom and grandmother falling to the floor because her uncle was murdered in a drug deal gone wrong.

Speaker 27 And so

Speaker 27 it was because her other uncle was involved in the drug deal. So anyways, he goes to jail, gets clean, and she goes to a seminar.
She had thyroid cancer in her 20s.

Speaker 27 So, chronic stress from untreated ADD and childhood trauma increases your cancer risk. So, she gets cancer when she's 25.
She goes to Hawaii. He's teaching a seminar for Jack Canfield.

Speaker 27 And he asks her, how much responsibility do you want? for your station in life right now.

Speaker 27 And she goes, I have cancer. It's not my fault.
He goes, I didn't ask you about fault. I asked you about responsibility, which is just your ability

Speaker 27 to respond to the situation. And in that moment, she got clarity.
It's like, I want 100%

Speaker 27 responsibility. And often when I'm with Tana, if we're fussing, which is very rare for us, I'm like, what can I do to make this better?

Speaker 27 Because as soon as I go, you're not doing this and you're not doing that, I think it's touching on a wound I have.

Speaker 27 But I want to be powerful.

Speaker 27 And being powerful is, so what can I do to make this better? Because I know, and I ask all my patients this. I'm like, like they're fighting with their wife and I'm like, or their mom.

Speaker 27 I'm like, so what do you do to make your mom crazy? And they're like, what? Because, you know, they expect me to just listen and buy into the bullshit.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, so what do you do to make your mom crazy?

Speaker 27 What do you do that makes your wife yell at you?

Speaker 27 And I do that purposefully because the next question

Speaker 27 is, what do you do to make your mom smile?

Speaker 27 And I know if I become condescending, if I become critical, if I notice what's wrong,

Speaker 27 I'm not going to get back what I want.

Speaker 27 And I collect penguins. Did I ever tell you why I collect penguins? No.
It's crazy, actually. It's good to know.
I have like a thousand of them. And I live my life with why I collect penguins.

Speaker 27 So I adopted three of my kids. My oldest was hard for me, argumentative, oppositional.
So he has the over focused ADD, like classic.

Speaker 27 And I was in training. at the time to be a child psychiatrist and I went to my mentor and I'm like, I am not having any fun as a dad.
So he was the first child I had

Speaker 27 and she goes, you need to spend more time with him. And so I took him to a place called Sea Life Park, which is in Hawaii.

Speaker 27 It's like SeaWorld or Marine World, Northern California. And we had a great day.
I took him to the whale show and that was fun and the dolphins and the sea lions.

Speaker 27 And at the end of the day, he grabs my shirt and he goes, I want to see Fat Freddie. And I'm like, who's Fat Freddie? He's like, Penguin, Dad, don't you know anything? And that was our

Speaker 27 interactions. And so at the end of the day, I went to the last show, the Fat Freddy show.

Speaker 27 He's a tiny, humble penguin, chubby, Fat Freddy. And he comes out onto the stage, climbs the ladder to a high dive, goes to the end of the board, bounces, and jumps in the water.
And I'm like, whoa.

Speaker 27 And he gets out, bowls with his nose, counts with his flipper, jumps through a hoop of fire. And I'm just mesmerized by this little bird.

Speaker 27 And then at the end of the show, the trainer asked Freddie to go get something. And he went and got it and brought it right back.

Speaker 27 And in my mind, I went, damn, I asked this kid to get something for me. He wants to have a discussion for like 20 minutes and then he doesn't want to do it.
I knew my son was smarter than the penguin.

Speaker 27 So I went up to the trainer. I said, how did you get Freddie to do all these really cool things? And she said, unlike parents, she looked at my son and then looked at me.

Speaker 27 Unlike parents, whenever Freddie does anything like what I want him to do, I notice him. I give him a hug and I give him a fish.

Speaker 27 And even though my son didn't like raw fish, would it totally worked with my daughter, Chloe? She loved sushi from the time she was six months old.

Speaker 27 I realized that whenever he did what I wanted him to do, I didn't pay any attention to him at all because I was busy.

Speaker 27 But when he didn't do what I wanted him to do, I gave him a ton of attention because I didn't want to raise bad kids. So I was inadvertently teaching him to be bad in order to get my attention.

Speaker 27 So I collect penguins as a way to remind myself,

Speaker 27 notice what you like more than what you don't. Notice what you like more than what you don't.

Speaker 27 And so if you're only noticing what you don't like, well, if you're with a partner who has ADD, that's the story of their life, that people have noticed what they haven't liked.

Speaker 27 If you love someone, and I love my kids that have ADD, I love my wife, notice what you like. It feeds.

Speaker 28 So good. Yeah, that's so good.
What a great story. And what a, what a great lesson.
I mean, that resonates so strongly.

Speaker 28 And it's so different to positive thinking because I think people think, well, that means I'm just letting them get away with all the bad stuff.

Speaker 28 And it's like, no, it's just you're also making really clear that I notice, I validate, I acknowledge all this amazing behavior.

Speaker 28 Because the truth is, what we're more often than not doing is we're keeping a scorecard, but it's of all their mistakes and all of our wins. So whenever we do do the dishes, we get a point.

Speaker 28 When that person doesn't do the dishes, they lose a point.

Speaker 28 As opposed to if we are going to keep score, we've got to really take account of all the amazing things that person does and be open to the fact that we also make mistakes.

Speaker 28 Because I think it's really easy to think, like I was giving that example to you, that I've always been a stickler for time. But at one point, I had to ask myself, why am I making time?

Speaker 28 the most important currency because that's also my obsession. Time is not always the most important thing.

Speaker 28 Like it is sometimes if I'm presenting at an event, if I'm going to be on stage, if I've got to meet a guest for a podcast, a client, time is of utmost importance.

Speaker 28 But when me and my wife are just going out to a friend's event that is a bit more casual, people are going to show up between 7 and 8 p.m.

Speaker 28 And I'm the guy trying to be there at 6.59 and I'm putting so much pressure on both of us. It's almost like it didn't really matter whether we turned up at 7 or 7.15 or 7.30.

Speaker 28 And I also had to give that up, right? So it's also like an acceptance that it's not like I'm perfect and that person's the one who's the wrong one all the time.

Speaker 27 And what has eternal value? Yeah. And you never want to have to win an argument.
If you have to win an argument, it's because you have low self-esteem. It's, why do I have to be my partner who I love?

Speaker 27 Who,

Speaker 27 you know, when something good happens, I call her, or something bad happens, I call her. I need to nurture that.

Speaker 27 And the winning comes from

Speaker 27 a low self-esteem place, or it comes from an earlier gladiator place that just has no business. I want Tana to win.
If I have to win, then there's a deficit somewhere in me.

Speaker 28 Yeah. And I always say to people, if you're fighting with your partner and you win, it means they lose.
And because you're on the same team, that means you both just lost.

Speaker 28 And if you lost and they won, you're on the same team, you both just lost. So you either win together or you lose together because you're on the same team.

Speaker 28 So there is no win-lose scenario because you go to sleep with that person, you wake up next to that person, you have dinner and breakfast and lunch with that person.

Speaker 28 If you just won, you lost because you're sharing all the other time of the day with them.

Speaker 28 I want to flip it to the other side. What about someone who has ADHD and they're dating someone who doesn't? What advice would you give them

Speaker 27 to

Speaker 27 help?

Speaker 28 Because they might be being really harsh on themselves. They might feel misunderstood.
What would you say to them?

Speaker 27 Well, I think communication is probably

Speaker 27 the most important thing.

Speaker 27 It's make sure

Speaker 27 you develop rituals of time.

Speaker 27 So, because often people get so busy and they're behind

Speaker 27 that

Speaker 27 they don't make time.

Speaker 27 And I think bonding requires two things, time

Speaker 27 and a willingness to listen. And often the other person who doesn't have ADD

Speaker 27 feels like they're not being heard because the ADD person forgets things and it's like, no, I have to say this.

Speaker 27 And the other person feels diminished. And so having both people practice active listening, it's so magical.
When they say something, don't say anything or repeat back what you hear and then be quiet.

Speaker 27 Too often, people just use too many words. And if you can practice silence and giving, when someone says something, give it space.

Speaker 27 So if they want to say more, they will, as opposed to jumping in too quickly. Communication is so

Speaker 27 important.

Speaker 27 And get dopamine from going, what do you need? How can I help? And often with ADD, because of the chaos that's in your head, you might not know.

Speaker 28 What would you say to someone who has a parent with ADHD

Speaker 28 and they're struggling with, and, you know, they're an adult. They have a parent who's got ADHD.
They may be caring for them.

Speaker 27 They're embarrassed a lot, right? Because you go to the restaurant and the person will just say the first thing that comes to their mind, which can be horrifying. My oldest patient with ADD is 94.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, why are you in my office?

Speaker 27 And she goes, you help my great-grandson. You help my granddaughter.
You help my son. I've never been able to finish the paper.
in the morning. I want to finish the paper.
So that was our goal.

Speaker 27 And so so I scanned her. She clearly had ADHD and age doesn't make it better.
I think that's an important point. Age doesn't make it better.

Speaker 27 And I treated her and she came back a month later and she had this beautiful smile and she said, I read my first book.

Speaker 28 That's amazing.

Speaker 27 And I would just be encouraging and go, we've learned so much about this. It's not a childhood disorder.
It starts in childhood, but it can impact the rest of your life.

Speaker 28 How should people talk to their bosses or their teachers, if parents are talking to teachers, about having ADHD?

Speaker 28 Because I imagine that's a tough conversation in the workplace where your performance is being judged, your output's being judged, your productivity is being measured.

Speaker 28 How do you have that conversation in an effective way?

Speaker 27 So I think I'm not sure I would have that conversation because it might make them look at you differently.

Speaker 28 Sad that there's still that.

Speaker 27 There is still that. Now, if you need accommodation, so it is federal law, if you have a disability and ADHD is considered a disability under federal law, your employer can give you accommodations.

Speaker 27 required to give you accommodations.

Speaker 27 I think my first suggestion is see if you can get it treated without, just so you don't really have to have the conversation to have to have them look at at you differently.

Speaker 27 But if you need it in order to keep that job, I'd absolutely talk about that. You'll need to get your doctor to write a note and request those accommodations.
Happens all the time in colleges.

Speaker 27 All major colleges have disability resource centers. Great.

Speaker 27 One of my nieces is at UCLA. She gets extra time on tests.
She gets notes. She gets a lot of help, which is rational.

Speaker 28 That's great. And so that's so helpful.
Does ADHD ever go away, or is it only maturable?

Speaker 27 Great question. In about half the cases, the kids who had ADHD, so the hyperactive form,

Speaker 27 were not in their later... teens.
I often worry they've outgrown the hyperactivity, but not the short attention span and impulsivity.

Speaker 27 But sometimes it's a maturational lag in brain development, and you can encourage it to go away or you can discourage it to go away.

Speaker 27 So you can encourage it to go away if there's regular exercise, if you teach kids not to believe every stupid thing they think, if you support them with omega-3 fatty acids and a healthy diet and you don't just give them devices they want, right?

Speaker 27 If you want to discourage it, so if you want them to make sure they have the ADD as they age, then feed them bad food, give them all the devices they want, let them watch endless hours of TV and play video games.

Speaker 28 Yeah, that's a great, great summary to help people set them up for what to do before medication. And what are some of the long-term effects of leaving ADHD untreated?

Speaker 27 It's so sad. Because it's basically the big issues in our society from school failure, drug abuse, divorce, bankruptcy, incarceration, homelessness.

Speaker 27 And if we looked more at the brain, we'd go, we can do a lot better.

Speaker 28 Yeah. And I think that's what the real hope is, that the world can start to take it seriously and take brain health seriously, right?

Speaker 28 If you had a hope for how we would shift the way we looked at ADHD and the brain, what would that be?

Speaker 27 So I have big ideas. When I went to the White House, my friend there said, how big can you think?

Speaker 27 The first thing I would do is rename the National Institute of Mental Health to the National Institute of Brain and Mental Health. Get the brain involved.

Speaker 27 Like, stop calling people mental, it shames people, it's stigmatizing, it's wrong. I declare the next 10 years, the decade of brain health,

Speaker 27 and

Speaker 27 get

Speaker 27 really serious

Speaker 27 about what goes into children's minds. It needs to be curated to be appropriate and to be helpful.

Speaker 28 Aaron Powell, who else's brain have you not scanned that you'd love to scan?

Speaker 27 The presidents. I wrote an op-ed piece in the L.A.
Times in 2008 on scanning presidential candidates. You know, if someone has

Speaker 27 the nuclear codes, don't we at least want to know about the health of their brain? Like the last election, I would have loved to scan both President Biden and now President Trump.

Speaker 28 What would you expect to see in both of these from your perception?

Speaker 27 I think with President Biden, there were clear cognitive issues. Well, I don't think I'd see a healthy brain.
President Trump, I'm much more curious.

Speaker 27 Now, I know I get a lot of hate for this, but I'm very interested in resilience. For someone who was the most popular person, or one of them, in the world before he ran for president, right?

Speaker 27 The apprentice had gone for 14 seasons,

Speaker 27 and he was beloved by so many people, and then he was demonized. And then he was falsely accused.
He was impeached. He was attempted assassination, indictments, convictions.

Speaker 27 And it's like, how do you show up every day, right? You and I, off the podcast, we're talking about worldwide shame and how some people just causes them to disappear. Well, he didn't disappear.

Speaker 27 And, you know, he's still fighting every day. So I'm really interested.

Speaker 27 I'm not sure I've seen a brain quite like what about Elon Musk or

Speaker 27 Elon Musk would be interesting. I've scanned many high-profile geniuses.

Speaker 28 I got to scan Muhammad Ali, which at what point on his journey was that?

Speaker 27 Later. And so you could clearly see the damage.
I have lots of really fascinating scans.

Speaker 28 Dr.

Speaker 28 Dan Lehman, I've got a few more questions that I want to leave people with to summarize some of our conversation today, to really leave them feeling energized positive hopeful about their journey with ADHD whether they have it individually or they have it through someone that they love in their life and the first question is for those who do have ADHD what are some great hacks for someone struggling with ADHD to be more organized to be better what would you suggest for them what they what can they do so the first thing when you get up try to do some form of exercise because that will help turn your brain on

Speaker 28 Why does exercise help turn the brain on?

Speaker 27 Because it increases serotonin, but also increases dopamine and it increases blood flow to your prefrontal cortex. For those people who live in colder climates, get a light box.

Speaker 27 A light box with 10,000 lux, so that's the intensity, has been found not only to help seasonal depression, it helps with focus, memory, energy, and it will help promote sleep. Make sleep a priority.

Speaker 27 Too often, when you have ADHD, you're more awake at night. You know, our society, we have bias against night owls.

Speaker 27 So, morning larks, our societies geared to praise them and often find a job that fits your circadian rhythm, but sleep is a priority. And if you snore, get checked for sleep apnea.

Speaker 27 So, kids who snore, sleep apnea may be the cause

Speaker 27 of their ADHD that is treatable.

Speaker 28 And what's the most important thing that someone with ADHD needs to hear?

Speaker 27 You are not stuck with the brain you have. You can make it better.
Think of it like glasses, right? People, you remember I told you about Sandy and showing her scans and she starts to cry.

Speaker 27 And I'm like, having ADD is like people need glasses. They're not dumb, crazy, or stupid.
Their eyeballs are shaped funny. We wear glasses to focus.
People have ADD are not dumb, crazy, or stupid.

Speaker 27 Their frontal lobes just don't turn on when they need to.

Speaker 27 And the medicine or supplements or neurofeedback helps turn it on so you can focus and be who you really are when your brain works right.

Speaker 27 People go, oh, I don't want to take medicine because I don't want to be someone different. It's like, but don't you want to be who you are when your brain is fully functioning?

Speaker 27 I want to be who I am when my brain is fully online.

Speaker 28 As always, Dr. Donalayman, I appreciate our conversation so much.
I get,

Speaker 28 I feel like whenever I'm with you, I learn to see everything so differently and deeply and as a 360 degree view.

Speaker 28 I think we're so used to in our society to see one aspect of something or have a very limited understanding of the different issues that we see.

Speaker 28 And whenever I speak to you, I I feel like, oh, wow, I have the much more broader contextual view of it.

Speaker 28 And I want everyone at home who's listening or watching, whether you're on a walk, whether you're at the gym, Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Lehman has one of his books, which is called Healing ADD, the breakthrough program that allows you to see and heal the seven types of ADD that we discussed in today's episode.

Speaker 28 So I highly recommend the book if you don't already have it. And of course, if you don't follow Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Lehman on all forms of social media, TikTok, Instagram, the podcast, as I mentioned earlier, make sure you do subscribe. And Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Lehman, we are so happy that you came on for a fifth time. If you haven't seen the episodes before, make sure you go back and listen and watch.
You can search Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Lehman and Jay Shetty or Dr. Daniel Lehman on purpose.
And any last words, Dr.

Speaker 28 Daniel Lehman, anything you wanted to share that I didn't ask you about or anything that is on your mind or heart right now?

Speaker 27 I'm just so grateful for you.

Speaker 27 You know, I love the idea that we can train our brains that focus on what you want way more than what you don't want.

Speaker 28 Yeah, I love that. Thank you.
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with Dr. Daniel Amon on how to change your life by changing your brain.

Speaker 27 If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with a healthy brain.

Speaker 27 You know, I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over a thousand convicted felons and and over a hundred murderers, and their brains are very damaged.

Speaker 23 Learn more at don't sleep on OSA.com.

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Dr. Daniel Amen: Struggling to focus, Stay Organized, or Feeling Overwhelmed by Your to-do List? ADHD Could Be Quietly Running Your Life (THIS is what to DO!)

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