Conspiracy Theories Come Back to Bite MAGA. Plus, Ep. 3 of The Divided Dial.

Speaker 1 We will clean out all of the corrupt actors in our national security and intelligence apparatus.

Speaker 2 To win the last election, the president and his allies blamed the deep state for all of society's ills.

Speaker 1 The departments and agencies that have been weaponized will be completely overhauled.

Speaker 2 From WNYC in New York, This Is On the Media. I'm Michael Lowinger.
Now that they're in power, the MAGA faithful are demanding the impossible.

Speaker 3 They love Trump and they're very happy with a lot of what they're getting. But also, they're not getting everything.
And in part, that's because a lot of their demands are impossible to deliver.

Speaker 3 Things like arresting Hillary Clinton or finding proof that the FBI was involved with trying to assassinate Donald Trump, things like that.

Speaker 2 Plus, extremists find a home at one of the world's farthest-reaching radio stations based in Maine.

Speaker 8 The KKK contacted us and they were really pleasant and nice. And I said, sure, we'll put you on the air.
And they were very, very impressed.

Speaker 2 It's all coming up after this.

Speaker 2 On the media is supported by Progressive Insurance. Do you ever think about switching insurance companies to see if you could save some cash?

Speaker 2 Progressive makes it easy to see if you could save when you bundle your home and auto policies. Try it at progressive.com.
Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates.

Speaker 2 Potential savings will vary, not available in all states.

Speaker 10 With a variety of options, U.S. Cellular Prepaid makes finding the right wireless plan for you easy.
That means you can get what you need at a price you can afford, all while staying connected.

Speaker 10 Like two lines of unlimited data for just $60 a month and a free device like the Samsung Galaxy A165G, U.S. Cellular prepaid.
Terms apply. See USCellular.com for details.

Speaker 2 From WNYC in New York, this is on the media. Brooke Gladstone is out this week.
I'm Michael Owinger. You said Jeffrey Epstein committed suicide.

Speaker 12 People don't believe it.

Speaker 2 Fox host Maria Bartiromo last weekend interviewing FBI Director Cash Patel and Deputy Director Dan Bongino.

Speaker 3 You know a suicide when you see one, and that's what that was.

Speaker 13 He killed himself. I've seen the whole file.

Speaker 14 He killed himself.

Speaker 2 Former podcaster Bongino, who previously entertained conspiracy theories about the financier and alleged sex traffickers' death, now finds himself at odds with some of the MAGA internet.

Speaker 3 They decided Dan has been captured by the deep state. I saw reactions like, deep state traitor in all caps.

Speaker 2 Will Summer is a senior reporter at the Bulwark.

Speaker 3 Alex Jones of Infowar, as he said, I think he's been compromised.

Speaker 2 This fissure in the MAGA media world began after Trump's DOJ failed to produce new Epstein revelations in a timely manner after promising them earlier this year.

Speaker 6 The Republican House Oversight Committee sent multiple letters to Attorney General Pam Bondi demanding the Epstein files be released.

Speaker 2 Then in late February, Bondi invited a group of far-right influencers to the White House to pick up flashy binders containing what she said was a batch of new records.

Speaker 3 They did this kind of grotesque photo shoot with it and it only got worse when it turned out that essentially all of the material was already public.

Speaker 15 We're all waiting for bombshells, we're all waiting for juicy stuff, and that's not what's in this binder. That's not what's in this binder at all.

Speaker 2 Suffice to say, the MAGA faithful were not pleased.

Speaker 16 It is the biggest disappointment I think that you'll find. It's mostly procedural jargon, heavily, heavily redacted.

Speaker 2 Since then, Republican lawmakers and influencers have continued badgering the Trump administration, leading to this bizarre moment at the White House press briefing this week.

Speaker 17 Who was found dead on a Clinton Foundation property? So anyways, that's just a lead into my question about the most famous Clinton-related suicide, which is that of Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 3 Thank goodness they got rid of the AP and Reuters, and now we get Zero Hedge and their thoughts about the Clinton body count.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so for those of us who don't know who Zero Hedge is and what the Clinton body count is and why it matters, can you break it down?

Speaker 9 Sure.

Speaker 3 So Zero Hedge started as a finance blog, but it also gets into a lot of like pro-Russia stuff, into conspiracy theories. Its sort of logo is Brad Pitt in Fight Club.

Speaker 3 So that should kind of give you a sense of like what we're working with here.

Speaker 2 I'll just jump in and say that the Biden administration actually accused Zero Hedge of publishing articles created by Moscow-controlled media. So that's not exactly a good look.

Speaker 3 It's not a credible source. It's pretty fringe, even by the standards of right-wing media.

Speaker 3 And so in terms of the Clinton body count, back to the first Bill Clinton campaign, this idea that the Clintons are connected to a lot of suspicious deaths.

Speaker 3 And so, you know, this became kind of an issue in the 90s with people like Webb Hubble and Vince Foster.

Speaker 3 And there was this implication that Republicans seized on that perhaps these people were committing suicide or dying mysteriously to cover up some misdeed they had participated in with the Clintons.

Speaker 2 So it seems to me that the Trump administration is kind of walking this funny line.

Speaker 2 On one hand, they're giving room and space to people to advance these conspiracy theories about Jeffrey Epstein, while at the same time, kind of rebutting those conspiracy theories, saying there's nothing more here.

Speaker 2 We can't give you any more. Please go away.

Speaker 9 So is it?

Speaker 13 It's a great question.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think like so many things, they're happy for people to continue believing it as long as they don't make it too obvious.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think back to the 2020 campaign when Donald Trump was asked, you know, these QAnon people, they think you're at war with these deep state pedophiles.

Speaker 3 And then he said, well, you know, what would be wrong with that? This kind of strategic ambiguity. But you're right.

Speaker 3 I mean, I think someone like Dan Bongino or Cash Patel, they have a more direct problem, which is that people are getting mad at them personally.

Speaker 3 Whereas Donald Trump, worse comes to worse, he can always just fire them and replace them with someone new to take the heat.

Speaker 2 In April, you reported that when Christy Noam took pro-Trump personality Kaya Rayczyk, also known as the creator of the Libs of TikTok account, on an ICE raid in Phoenix, Rayczyk got to wear an ICE officer badge on the raid ride-along, which conservatives were not super pleased with.

Speaker 2 Former 60 Minutes correspondent turned right-wing pundit Laura Logan said, quote, not sure what this is, but if this is today's quote-unquote journalism, we are not better off.

Speaker 2 And then a writer for the right-wing conspiracy website, Gateway Pundit, called it just embarrassing.

Speaker 2 Even as the MAGA media world, you know, sees its profile raised by the White House and by this administration, it doesn't like what it sees.

Speaker 3 To be clear, they love Trump and they're very happy with a lot of what they're getting. But also, you know, they're not getting everything.

Speaker 3 And in part, that's because a lot of their demands are impossible to deliver.

Speaker 3 Things like arresting Hillary Clinton or finding proof that the FBI was involved with trying to assassinate Donald Trump, things like that.

Speaker 3 So these are the kind of things that there is a lot of discontent brewing on the right.

Speaker 3 And I think that these sort of right-wing personalities or these influencers who are seen as more tied to the Trump administration or as sort of like the favored figures are taking a lot of the brunt of that.

Speaker 2 Beyond further damage to our information ecosystem, beyond the fact that a lot of energy and resources seems to be going towards just keeping right-wing conspiracy theorists at bay, are you seeing evidence that the functionality of the government is actually suffering in an attempt to appease these right-wing influencers?

Speaker 10 Sure.

Speaker 3 I mean, here's one example.

Speaker 3 You know, it's been reported that the Southern District of New York prosecutor's office essentially ground to a halt recently because so many of the employees there had been detailed by Pam Bondi towards redacting the Epstein files so they could finally be released.

Speaker 3 And now, look, obviously the Epstein case is important. And ultimately, I'd like to see as many files about high-profile cases as possible.

Speaker 3 But at the same time, you have to think, is this really like the most important thing going on for the top prosecutor's office in the country that everything has to stop in what is, I think, pretty clearly an attempt to satisfy the Attorney General's critics on right-wing Twitter and YouTube?

Speaker 3 I would argue probably not.

Speaker 2 There's so many storylines to keep track of for news consumers right now.

Speaker 2 And for some of us, when we see like a right-wing influencer in the press briefing room talking about some conspiracy theory we've never heard of, you might be inclined to kind of tune it out.

Speaker 2 Why do you think it's worth keeping a close eye on these people and their growing profile?

Speaker 3 I think the reality is, whether we like it or not, I think a lot of these right-wing media figures have a lot of sway over the government and can do things like sink bills by suddenly tweeting about them.

Speaker 3 They can change government policy or they can get people fired or get nominations sunk.

Speaker 3 I mean, we just saw additionally Laura Loomer criticize this woman who was up for Surgeon General, and then her nomination got pulled.

Speaker 3 And so, if you're interested in sort of where the Trump administration is going and the direction of the country, I think unfortunately, it's worthwhile keeping an eye on what these figures are up to and sort of what narratives they're promoting.

Speaker 2 Will, thank you very much.

Speaker 3 Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 Will Summer is a senior reporter at The Bulwark.

Speaker 2 Coming up with the story of one station and one man tells us about shortwave radio in the internet era. This is on the media.

Speaker 12 On the Media is supported by hims and hers.

Speaker 12 If you're someone who values choice in your money, your goals, and your future, then you know how frustrating traditional health care can be.

Speaker 12 One size fits all treatments, preset dosages, zero flexibility. It's like trying to budget with a fixed expense you didn't even choose.
But now, there's another way, with HIMS and HERS.

Speaker 12 HIMS and HERS is reimagining healthcare with you in mind.

Speaker 12 They offer access to personalized care for weight loss, hair loss, sexual health, and mental health, because your goals, your biology, and your lifestyle are anything but average.

Speaker 12 No membership fees, no surprise fees, just transparent pricing and real care that you can access from anywhere. Feel like your best self thanks to quality, convenient care through HIMS and HERS.

Speaker 12 Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash OTM. That's H-I-M-S.com/slash OTM to find your personalized treatment options.
Not available everywhere.

Speaker 12 Prescription products require provider consultation. See website for full details, important safety information, and restrictions.

Speaker 20 You have a vision for your business.

Speaker 22 Your priority might be to expand facilities or bring in the best talent.

Speaker 21 At Century Insurance, we listen, learn, and work to understand your business and your plans to help protect your new locations.

Speaker 21 As your business evolves and your vision comes true, Sentry right by you.

Speaker 21 Property and casualty coverages and render written and safety services are provided by a member of the Sentry Insurance Group, Stevens Point, Wisconsin.

Speaker 21 For a complete listing of companies, visit sentry.com. Policies, coverages, benefits, and discounts are not available on all states e-policy for complete coverage details.

Speaker 11 What?

Speaker 11 Oh my goodness.

Speaker 11 Wow.

Speaker 11 Oh my gosh.

Speaker 11 Wow.

Speaker 11 Oh my god.

Speaker 15 Radiolab.

Speaker 12 Whoa. Adventures on the edge of what we think we know.

Speaker 2 This is on the media. I'm Michael Loewinger.

Speaker 2 If you've been following along for the past couple of weeks, you know that we've been airing the second season of our award-winning series, The Divided Dial, hosted by Katie Thornton.

Speaker 2 This season, it's all about the shortwaves, the way less listened to but way farther reaching cousin of AM and FM radio. Episodes one and two delved into the history of the medium.

Speaker 2 This week's installment brings us up to the present day. But the story starts almost 40 years ago.
Here's Katie.

Speaker 15 It was July of 1987 on a hot, muggy Thursday in New York City.

Speaker 15 Temperatures had been climbing into the 90s all week.

Speaker 15 And as people all over the city ran fans in their windows, wrapped wet towels around their necks, and hit the beach, a 34-year-old man named Alan Wiener from Yonkers was out on the water on a ship, a 200-foot-long freighter.

Speaker 25 Then it's not a gleaming Clipper ship, but a broken-down bucket which has drawn the attention of the federal government.

Speaker 15 It drew the Fed's attention because of what was happening on board.

Speaker 25 There's a new rock station in town. Well, not really in town, really in the water.

Speaker 26 And it may be illegal.

Speaker 15 Alan was a tech-savvy hippie with round glasses and a long bowl cut in the style of Johnny Ramon. And together with his comrades, Alan had launched a pirate radio station.

Speaker 27 And the only people that have radio stations in New York are gigantic corporations.

Speaker 11 This is the only other way to do it, especially if you don't have much coin.

Speaker 15 This was not Alan Weiner's first time hijacking the airwaves. He'd been illegally broadcasting for half his life, first getting a knock on the door from the FCC when he was just a teenager.

Speaker 15 But this was by far his most ambitious effort.

Speaker 28 Radio New York International, they call themselves, with a rock and roll accent and a pacifist beat.

Speaker 15 With the stated goal of spreading peace, love, and understanding, and some good old American rock music, Radio New York International broadcast for for listeners up and down the East Coast, and artists sent in records for them to play on the air.

Speaker 29 All right, thanks to Ramones here at RI, Radio New York International.

Speaker 15 I'm Isaac Jeffrey. As for the news media, they pulled out all the stops to cover the story.

Speaker 30 Channel 5 News has spared no expense in tracking down these pirates. We've added this vessel to our investigative fleet.
It's a duplicate of the one used on Miami Vice.

Speaker 31 With us is our Captain Fred Shaw. Fred

Speaker 15 from their first broadcast, Radio New York International taunted the Federal Communications Commission, kicking off their transmission with a topical song from the 1960s.

Speaker 15 But after only four broadcast days, just as Alan and his first mate were starting to get their sea legs.

Speaker 24 Good evening, some defiant DJs who wanted to thumb their noses at Washington have instead gotten an FCC fist in the face, federal agents did come on down to their boat.

Speaker 24 Shortly before 5.30 this this morning, the Coast Guard and FCC engineers moved in.

Speaker 24 The FCC dismantled the radio equipment, and the Coast Guard arrested the two RNI staffers on board, Ivan Rothstein and Alan Wiener.

Speaker 15 Alan was incensed as they took him off the ship in bracelets.

Speaker 31 We weren't breaking any laws whatsoever. We feel we were completely illegal station and now free, you know, free-form rock and roll has been snubbed out.

Speaker 15 They had anchored the boat just over four miles off the coast of Long Island, which, per Alan's interpretation of the law, was international waters.

Speaker 15 But the government said that international waters started much further out.

Speaker 32 Wiener and another man have now been charged with illegally broadcasting rock and roll music and peace chatter.

Speaker 15 Radio New York International was dead.

Speaker 24 The men who wanted your ears were chained, taken away, and could spend years in jail. You know how many robberies there were in this town last year?

Speaker 24 Murders, burglaries, but two pirate pirate DJs won't bother you anymore.

Speaker 15 Alan ended up avoiding jail time for this stunt, in part thanks to the ACLU coming to his defense. But after years of trying to skirt around the FCC, this arrest did change something for Alan.

Speaker 15 It made him realize that if he wanted to get on the air for good, he'd have to go legit.

Speaker 15 Alan set out to get his own licensed station. The FCC dragged its feet for years, saying in the official record that it didn't want to give a license to Captain Hook.

Speaker 15 But in the late 1990s, what many people in the radio business considered to be the impossible happened. Allen, the pirate, won.
And in 1998, he launched WBCQ.

Speaker 23 The free speech sound heard the whole world round. WBCQ, you're on the planet now.

Speaker 15 It wasn't in the coveted, corporatized market of New York City. It was in the 800-person, blink-and-you-miss-it town of Monticello in far northern Maine.

Speaker 15 That was all right, though, because Allen wasn't going for a local audience. He was going to use the shortwaves to bring the free-form, peace-and-love mission of his pirate ship out to the world.

Speaker 15 This is season two of The Divided Dial from On the Media. I'm your host, Katie Thornton.

Speaker 15 This season is all about shortwave radio, how it went from a utopian experiment in global communication to a tool of government and far-right propaganda, and what a little-known battle playing out on the shortwaves today means for the future of our public airwaves.

Speaker 15 This episode, the story of one station and one man, that tells us a lot about shortwave in the internet era. Last episode, we learned how shortwave took a hit when the internet came around.

Speaker 15 Lots of stations closed, but WBCQ was just getting started. Today, it's one of the highest-powered privately owned broadcasting facilities on Earth.
So, how did Alan Wiener pull it off?

Speaker 15 The answer has to do with an absolutely giant antenna that reaches every continent. And how that antenna came to be up there in rural Maine? And what it broadcasts?

Speaker 15 That was one of the most unexpected stories I dug up on my journey into the shortwaves. Because at WBCQ today, it's not all peace and love, man.

Speaker 15 Far from it.

Speaker 15 Hello. Early last year, I reached out to Alan Wiener.
Hi, Alan. It's Katie calling.

Speaker 33 Hello, Katie.

Speaker 15 And he mentioned that he and some of his engineering buddies would be gathering for last April's solar eclipse, which happened to pass directly over WBCQ.

Speaker 15 Offhandedly, he invited me along.

Speaker 29 Yeah, sure, come on up.

Speaker 33 You can't miss the station. It's got a ginormous antenna.

Speaker 15 Other than a friend of mine who told me about the station, no one I knew had ever even heard of WBCQ. And I know a lot of radio freaks.
I really wanted to know more. So, I took Alan up on his offer.

Speaker 15 One mile ahead, two miles ahead, and one mile right. So, if I look north-northeast, I should

Speaker 15 see the tower.

Speaker 15 Turn right onto Britain Road.

Speaker 15 Okay

Speaker 15 Well, he was not lying when he said you can't miss it

Speaker 15 One of if not the most powerful commercial broadcast stations in the world. No one's ever heard of it.
No one even knows it's here

Speaker 15 And I'm closing an eye

Speaker 23 Now

Speaker 5 during totality I'll remove the solar filter from the telescope. You can look at it in totality without the filter.

Speaker 15 When I arrived at the station, Alan was there with his wife Angela, some friends, a farmer neighbor, and the station's engineer. They were warm and friendly.

Speaker 15 They'd lugged an assortment of wooden and plastic chairs out to the station's small parking lot and had an extra ready for me.

Speaker 15 They offered me sunscreen and eclipse-proof glasses.

Speaker 5 We got 55.

Speaker 15 55. It was brisk.
There was snow on the ground, but the skies were this perfect blue.

Speaker 31 Three minutes.

Speaker 6 Oh, there's barely anything left.

Speaker 31 Well, it's a pinhole sun. Yeah.

Speaker 11 Pinhole sun. Rest in peace.

Speaker 3 Chris Cornell, what a beautiful man.

Speaker 15 At one point, as it started to get darker, the automatic floodlights came on in the parking lot where we sat.

Speaker 31 Oh, look, the lights just come on. Yeah, turn them off, would you?

Speaker 15 That was the sound of a station employee's handgun falling to the ground out of his back pocket when he got up to turn the lights off.

Speaker 15 One of the guys who came up for the big event was named Tim. He has a long-running weekly show in WBCQ, playing mostly rock and roll, sprinkled in with some funny skits and stories.

Speaker 15 Like Alan, he had long gray hair, though Tim's was notably more unkempt. And also, like Alan, Tim got his start in pirate radio a long time ago.

Speaker 14 I was with my buddy and thought, hey, why not?

Speaker 14 Each of us popped a tab of acid. Now we're starting to trip our brains off.

Speaker 14 So I ran next door and I grabbed a bunch of records and other stuff and a reel-to-reel tape machine and patch cables broadcasted on shortwave. I called it Radio Timtron Worldwide.
It was just a goof.

Speaker 15 Another friend of Alan's had been an engineer at the U.S.-based Christian Science Monitor shortwave station, which used to broadcast news and information to Eastern Europe during the Cold War.

Speaker 15 At WBCQ, I got the full range of shortwavers' aspirations. Some of them wanted to use the power of this megaphone to promote democracy, others just to have a little fun.

Speaker 15 But for the time being, our focus was elsewhere, on the sky and the sun, and the moon that was rapidly stepping into its path.

Speaker 15 Finally, the moment we'd been waiting for was here, and it was breathtaking.

Speaker 31 You can look at it.

Speaker 11 Oh my god!

Speaker 18 Look at that!

Speaker 30 The eye of God!

Speaker 18 How cool is that?

Speaker 11 That is it!

Speaker 34 Yeah, it looks like John Bonham's bass drum insignia.

Speaker 15 Yep, the morning after the eclipse. Just woke up in the back of the minivan in the Walmart parking lot here in Holton.

Speaker 15 I don't know if you all know this about solar eclipses, but it's impossible to find a cheap hotel.

Speaker 15 It's impossible to find any hotel, especially all the way up here, 12 miles past the northern terminus of Interstate 95, which runs from Maine to Florida.

Speaker 15 I knew all this going into the trip, and I'd booked an RV with a heater.

Speaker 15 But it canceled on me at the last minute. So I rented a minivan from some guy in Boston and threw an air mattress in the back.
It's like 20 degrees last night. It was really cold.

Speaker 15 Made it though, and getting ready. I decided to go back to WBCQ because something wasn't adding up.

Speaker 15 During the eclipse, we sat in the shadow of this huge, shiny new antenna. But elsewhere on the property, radio equipment equipment clanked away inside various trailers and falling down shacks.

Speaker 15 There were lots of old school buses and World War II-era radar devices. Alan told me he uses them to search the skies for extraterrestrial life.

Speaker 15 A massive anti-aircraft gun was parked at one of the station's driveways. That big new antenna was just so out of place with the rest of the station.
I wanted to know how it all came to be.

Speaker 15 So Alan and I chatted as he showed me around.

Speaker 5 We're a free speech radio station on Shortwave, and we lease airtime to anyone.

Speaker 33 What are you all charging it?

Speaker 12 50 bucks an hour.

Speaker 5 Yeah, and that's what we were charging when we went on the air.

Speaker 15 From the time WBCQ launched in 1998, anyone could buy airtime. Buy an hour every month, every week, every day.
You pay, Alan will beam it out.

Speaker 15 And that $50 an hour rate, it's kind of insanely affordable. For reference, I used to work at a small community radio station that charged $50 for a 30-second underwriting announcement.

Speaker 15 You know, those programming is supported by messages you hear.

Speaker 15 When WBCQ started, the exodus from shortwave was well underway. About a fifth of Americans were already on the internet.
But despite that, there was still demand for affordable airtime.

Speaker 15 So WBCQ started adding more frequencies. This was all happening before they got the big new antenna, but the station could still reach pretty far.
South America, even Antarctica.

Speaker 15 Folks bought airtime to play niche music shows, classic rock deep cuts, even old wax cylinders and 78s.

Speaker 15 But as Alan quickly discovered, when you advertise yourself as a haven for free speech on a medium that was already home to militia leaders and extremists, that's who shows up.

Speaker 5 The American Nazi Party. Do you know they were one of the first people to sign up with us?

Speaker 5 They came to us, oh, free speech right on the air.

Speaker 13 I said, Yep, no problem.

Speaker 15 Alan's father was Jewish, and Alan was mostly raised Jewish, though his mother was Roman Catholic. But Alan thought of himself as a free thinker, a First Amendment warrior.

Speaker 15 And having Nazis as paying customers posed no ethical dilemmas for him. At least, not at first.

Speaker 5 We had a programmer that kept getting on the air and telling people to go out and kill the Jews.

Speaker 5 And I kept calling him up and going, Look, you can't encourage people to go out and kill people. You know, if that happens, you're going to go to jail.

Speaker 14 I'm going to go to jail.

Speaker 5 Because, you know, we'd be complicit. And you can't do this.

Speaker 5 They wouldn't listen.

Speaker 13 Even my father heard that.

Speaker 15 Alan's father did not like tuning in and hearing Nazis.

Speaker 19 He says, son, what do you think?

Speaker 5 Yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker 7 I'm going to fix it.

Speaker 15 After multiple warnings about the Nazis' explicit calls for violence, Alan polled the broadcast, citing the station's self-imposed hate speech policy.

Speaker 5 Which basically says if you get on the air and encourage people to go out and hurt and harm other people,

Speaker 5 we're going to give you a warning. We're going to say, don't do that.

Speaker 5 And if they don't,

Speaker 15 the Nazis' show was called American Dissident Voices. And when Allen cut it, it caused a stir.

Speaker 15 Deep in the archives of one popular shortwave show, I found a colin that dealt with the cancellation head-on.

Speaker 26 We're talking about American dissident voices being booted off of WBCQ.

Speaker 15 The host was Bill Cooper. He was a hugely influential thought leader in the conspiracy and militia movements of the 90s.
We heard some of his show on the last episode.

Speaker 26 Good evening, you're on the air.

Speaker 35 Yeah, this is Mike in Saul, Florida. Good evening, Bill.

Speaker 26 Hi, Mike.

Speaker 26 I don't agree with the person of WBCQ because he became judge and jury with no due process if a radio station makes a claim that they will broadcast anybody's opinion then they should honor that promise i i lost a lot of respect for al weiner by him not honoring his promise in alan wiener's case

Speaker 15 uh he simply uh pulled the plug you know he certainly did that and then good evening you're on the air hi bill It's Alan Weiner. Alan called in.

Speaker 26 Hi, Alan. Well, you know, I think a lot of people out there are glad you called.

Speaker 32 I hope you understand this is not.

Speaker 15 Alan told listeners that he alone was responsible for the decision, but that axing the show violated every principle he held dear.

Speaker 15 That everyone has a right to speak on the radio, and everyone should be given that right.

Speaker 15 However, I did change the way I felt on that one specific program because

Speaker 15 I did get some input from a lot of other people, and

Speaker 15 the day I decided to pull it off, I knew it was a no-win situation. And to all the listeners out there that hold me to my principles of allowing all voices on the air, I apologize and I am sorry.

Speaker 15 But in this one instance, and I plan to make it the last instance, I had to do it.

Speaker 15 Alan did indeed make it the last last instance. Hate groups kept coming to WBCQ, and Alan kept selling them airtime.

Speaker 5 The KKK contacted us.

Speaker 15 Alan told me about this on my visit.

Speaker 8 And they were really pleasant and nice, and I said, sure, we'll put you on the air, and they were very, very impressed.

Speaker 15 Maybe it was his own crystallizing free speech absolutism, or maybe it was the fact that it didn't take long for WBCQ to start feeling the economic squeeze of the internet era.

Speaker 15 But Alan was quickly entering the business of shortwave extremism. Within a few years of launching, he welcomed a guy named Hal Turner who used the shortwaves to call for violence.

Speaker 3 I advocate shooting and killing these Mexicans as they cross the border.

Speaker 15 Turner also called for the murder of Jews, black Americans, LGBTQ people, and politicians.

Speaker 34 We don't want to have to kill you. We hope to not have to kill you.
But we can kill you. And if need be, we will kill you.

Speaker 15 Hal Turner first made a name for himself as a frequent caller to Sean Hannity's show on the big AM station, WABC, in New York.

Speaker 15 But Hal went to shortwave because he felt AM and FM conservative talk had grown soft. On shortwave, he said whatever he wanted.

Speaker 34 There are approaching on the horizon situations where killing elected officials may be necessary. Well, what are a few lives in the grand scheme of liberty?

Speaker 3 Not a big deal.

Speaker 15 But Alan's assortment of extremist talk shows and the occasional esoteric music program was far from a cash cow. Alan needed people to buy more time.

Speaker 15 He offered big discounts for hosts who bought airtime in bulk. A few, including Hal Turner, came to buy several hours most every day.
At one point, Alan was even in talks with Radio Sputnik is Russia,

Speaker 5 and they almost leased one of our transmitters.

Speaker 15 To take a whole frequency 24-7.

Speaker 15 Yeah, what happened with those who just put in a conference on the camera?

Speaker 5 They decided not to go.

Speaker 5 I don't know why, because we really made them a good deal. And we can...

Speaker 31 See, we can get people on.

Speaker 15 One man did have a round-the-clock presence on one of WBCQ's frequencies. His name was Ralph Gordon Stare, also known as R.G.,

Speaker 15 also known as Brother Stare.

Speaker 32 And I don't believe there's a man on the face of the earth that is higher in spiritual authority in the kingdom of God than I am. I don't don't believe that.

Speaker 15 Stair was a self-proclaimed prophet who preached an ultra-conservative, homophobic, and misogynistic Christian ideology.

Speaker 15 He bought airtime on other shortwave stations too, and he didn't just use his show to preach.

Speaker 15 He also used it to recruit listeners from as far away as New Zealand to live with him on his farm in South Carolina.

Speaker 15 At the farm, the men wore long beards, and the women always wore full coverage skirts and had their hair in tightly wound buns.

Speaker 15 People who visited have said that there were radios and loudspeakers set up in every one of the compound's buildings and on the fields so that followers would hear Stair's preaching even as they worked his land.

Speaker 15 Stair's flock took a pledge of poverty when they joined, giving their money to his Overcomer ministry.

Speaker 15 At one point, Stair was spending $100,000 a month on shortwave and local radio broadcasts.

Speaker 15 In 2017, video surfaced of Stare molesting a 12-year-old girl during a sermon. More women came forward with reports of abuse.

Speaker 15 Stories and court cases from years prior came to light, alleging everything from fraud to the improper burial of babies who died.

Speaker 15 Apparently, after Stare encouraged mothers to forego modern medical care in favor of faith healing.

Speaker 34 You're dealing with a doctor. He won't tell you the truth.
You better get away from him.

Speaker 15 Multiple people who escaped the overcomer ministry said R.G. Stare was running a cult.

Speaker 15 Thanks to survivors who spoke out, the FBI and local law enforcement investigated Stare. And later that year, they raided the farm.
More victims brought their stories to police.

Speaker 15 Stare facing more charges of criminal sexual conduct this time, many involving children.

Speaker 15 Stare's show was dropped from a bunch of local stations, but in Alan and his wife Angela's eyes, he still had a right to the airwaves.

Speaker 15 And yeah, Stare bought lots of time on WBCQ, but it wasn't like he was making the station rich. Alan still couldn't always afford to repair or maintain equipment.
He'd let go of staff.

Speaker 5 You know, the 50 bucks we get here and there, you know, that doesn't pay the bills. No.

Speaker 5 It doesn't.

Speaker 15 For WBCQ and a lot of shortwave stations that survived into the internet era, this was the play. Offering a megaphone to religious extremists and the far far right while still barely scraping by.

Speaker 15 But in 2018, everything changed at WBCQ.

Speaker 15 Coming up, Alan gets a huge leg up and that powerful new antenna from an unexpected source.

Speaker 15 This is season two of the divided dial from On the Media.

Speaker 12 On the Media Media is supported by Hims and Hers.

Speaker 12 If you're someone who values choice in your money, your goals, and your future, then you know how frustrating traditional healthcare can be.

Speaker 12 One size fits all treatments, preset dosages, zero flexibility. It's like trying to budget with a fixed expense you didn't even choose.
But now, there's another way, with HIMS and HERS.

Speaker 12 HIMS and HERS is reimagining healthcare with you in mind.

Speaker 12 They offer access to personalized care for weight loss, hair loss, sexual health, and mental health because your goals, your biology, and your lifestyle are anything but average.

Speaker 12 No membership fees, no surprise fees, just transparent pricing and real care that you can access from anywhere. Feel like your best self thanks to quality, convenient care through HIMS and HERS.

Speaker 12 Start your free online visit today at HIMS.com slash OTM. That's HIMS.com/slash OTM to find your personalized treatment options.
Not available everywhere.

Speaker 12 Prescription products require provider consultation. See website for full details, important safety information, and restrictions.

Speaker 2 This week on the New Yorker Radio Hour, Anna Wintour on the changing of the guard at Vogue.

Speaker 36 Well, I think fashion is always important.

Speaker 36 It's a question of self-expression and forgive me, David, but how boring would it be if everybody was just wearing a dark suit and a white shirt all the time?

Speaker 2 Anna Wintour joins me next time on the New Yorker Radio Hour from WNYC Studios. Listen wherever you you get your podcasts.

Speaker 15 This is the divided dial from On the Media. I'm Katie Thornton.
Right before the break, I was telling you about how WBCQ was struggling financially. But in 2018, that all changed.

Speaker 5 That summer was great.

Speaker 15 WBCQ got a many million dollar cash injection. and that massive new antenna.
It can pump out 500 kilowatts of power, 10 times as much as WBCQ's other signals.

Speaker 15 The town's electric system wasn't even powerful enough to support it, so Allen offered to split the cost of rewiring with the local government.

Speaker 5 They're rewiring the town. You know, I'd walk into the town office.
Well, thank you. You know, we're getting all new power, you know, here for business and stuff.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 5 You know, you're welcome. You're welcome.

Speaker 15 The antenna weighs 200 tons and is gigantic at its base.

Speaker 15 Like one of those redwood trees that you can drive through, except the electromagnetic frequencies this beast emits are known to jam up cars' computer systems and stall them out, so you can't drive even near it.

Speaker 15 To anchor the antenna, they had to get a host of cement trucks to come in and put a footing down, 40 by 40 feet wide and 12 solid feet deep.

Speaker 15 The antenna is fully rotatable, sitting on a gargantuan ring bearing that can be turned to point in any direction, beaming shortwave radio signals to any continent on Earth.

Speaker 18 Oh, I hear the motors.

Speaker 15 There it goes.

Speaker 19 Oh, there it goes.

Speaker 19 There it goes.

Speaker 5 Quite something.

Speaker 15 That's wild.

Speaker 15 It's like watching a skyscraper spin.

Speaker 5 If I listen to it, it's like a fine watch. They're going to the UK now.

Speaker 5 I think this is the only privately owned 500 kilowatt in the world because most most of the 500 kilowatters that I know are either owned by the Catholic Church, the Vatican, or governments.

Speaker 5 By the time we got done with it, it cost about $8 million.

Speaker 18 Was it $8 million? Yeah, I think it was $8 million.

Speaker 33 Wow.

Speaker 31 So I think this is...

Speaker 15 When the windfall came, WBCQ also got a bespoke new studio and transmitter building outfitted with an apartment for a live-in engineer. People in the shortwave world had one question.

Speaker 15 Who paid for this?

Speaker 15 I mean, how did WBCQ, with their transmitters and falling-down shacks and broadcast studio and a single-wide trailer, become a swanky, world-class, enormously high-powered shortwave station?

Speaker 15 It turns out Allen's new backer was a group called World's Last Chance. This is WBCQ, bringing World's Last Chance radio to you from Monticello, Maine, USA.

Speaker 15 They're They're an ultra-conservative Christian end times ministry, and they preach, among other things, that the earth is flat.

Speaker 37 We are talking flat earth in the Bible. The earth is flat and God tells you so.

Speaker 15 World's Last Chance was started in 2004 by an Egyptian cosmetics and food magnate turned religious leader named Galal Das.

Speaker 15 At first, even Alan didn't think World's Last Chance was on the level.

Speaker 5 They came to us, but they wanted superpower. We really really want to be with your station because you're free speech.
I said, well, we can get you on the air. It's 50 kilowatts, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 18 I said, no, we don't want that. We want more power.

Speaker 13 I said, well, how much more power?

Speaker 5 I said, oh, you know, at least 500,000 watts. I said, we'd have to build that and, you know, we'd have to charge you for it and all that.

Speaker 13 You know, I mean, that's millions of dollars.

Speaker 5 You know, I mean, they said, fine.

Speaker 19 Well,

Speaker 13 that afternoon, they wired me $30,000.

Speaker 13 I said, okay, these people are serious.

Speaker 15 Some of what the ministry preaches is just downright strange.

Speaker 15 Or really in the weeds about doctrine.

Speaker 3 Cosmologies and cosmogenes.

Speaker 15 For a while, World's Last Chance believed that Pope John Paul II was going to come back as the Antichrist.

Speaker 4 Shocking truth emerges.

Speaker 15 They also follow a strange combination lunar-solar calendar, not the Gregorian calendar. So their Sabbath falls on different days from week to week.

Speaker 4 That Yahushua

Speaker 15 But other things they broadcast have more clear overlap with the conspiratorial right. They are staunchly anti-establishment, especially since COVID.

Speaker 4 Well, let's be honest, I mean, we shouldn't be surprised that the church has failed to stand up to government dictates.

Speaker 4 I mean, the closer we get to the end, the more the fallen churches will spout the serpent's agenda.

Speaker 15 And they even link their flat earth beliefs not just to extreme biblical literalism, but to their anti-globalist agenda.

Speaker 38 The only kind of circumnavigation which could not happen on a flat earth is north-southbound.

Speaker 38 Both the North Pole and the Antarctica are military-enforced no-fly and no-sail zones due to restrictions originating from none other than the United Nations.

Speaker 15 World's Last Chance is very dubious, but it's not exactly a cult.

Speaker 15 Though they do sometimes encourage their members to quit their jobs to dedicate themselves to the ministry, they don't appear to take money from their followers.

Speaker 15 They've never had what they refer to as an earthly headquarters, as in no sketchy farm. They say their members are spread literally over the four corners of the world.

Speaker 15 They build themselves as a web-based ministry, and they have this janky website that looks straight out at the early internet.

Speaker 15 We're talking retrofuturistic graphics and pictorial backdrops with text-heavy blocks, and a left-hand column of like 40 hyperlinks.

Speaker 15 But if World's Last Chances website is less than convincing, their shortwave radio broadcast is top tier.

Speaker 15 It's super listenable, well-produced, and among the slickest broadcasts on American shortwave today.

Speaker 15 Alan will be the first to tell you: it's the religious programming that pays the bills. World's Last Chance's doomsday ministering is the key to it all.

Speaker 15 The ministry's payments more or less bankroll WBCQ's original operation, all the other frequencies with the free speech programs that still roll in at 50 bucks a pop.

Speaker 18 Well, all right.

Speaker 5 What's on the air now?

Speaker 8 This is on the air.

Speaker 18 That's on the air.

Speaker 5 Radio Trump International is on the air.

Speaker 37 And, you know, the polls came out.

Speaker 15 Radio Trump International was one of Alan and Angela's shows, which they ran leading up to the 2024 election.

Speaker 13 We're Trump supporters.

Speaker 19 We are.

Speaker 5 And we've decided to take one of our channels, 5130,

Speaker 5 and we broadcast Radio Trump International 24 hours a day

Speaker 15 because we can.

Speaker 15 Having a backer like World's Last Chance has also made it easier for Alan to keep broadcasting people like Brother R.G. Stare, a man he and Angela came to consider a friend.

Speaker 5 What the government did to the beautiful people at the Overcomer, they raided the place like it was a Ruby Ridge.

Speaker 15 Alan and Angela told me they don't believe the well-documented allegations of sexual assault.

Speaker 5 A bunch of farmers, a bunch of cattle-raising, goat-raising Christian people, you know, tilling the soil, and they pretty much went in there and terrorized everyone.

Speaker 15 Stare is dead now. He died in 2021 while awaiting trial.

Speaker 15 But his followers still live at the compound, and they still send the preacher's reruns to Allen to broadcast around the world all day, every day.

Speaker 5 Brother Stare, he helped us keep BCQ on the air, expand. And I always promised that we would keep him on the air air no matter what, even if they didn't have money.

Speaker 15 Alan knows that a lot of people would have considered him liberal in his early years.

Speaker 15 He knows that in some people's eyes, he's made a shocking transformation from his days as a peacenik rock and roll pirate.

Speaker 15 For Alan's part, he says that his philosophy is the same today as it's always been. that people need to hear even the most hateful speech so that they can understand it and resist it.

Speaker 5 My political science professor used to say that if you let things fester in the dark, they will fester and grow.

Speaker 5 But if you shine the light on them, the light will help expunge it and bring it out so people can say, hey, this is wrong. We don't agree with this.
You know, you shouldn't do this.

Speaker 5 And that to us except.

Speaker 15 Were you all concerned about having those voices on the air that it could lead to harm?

Speaker 5 Well, we were, but we felt people need to have a right to know. You know, I mean, it's shedding light.

Speaker 18 You know, I mean, you really got to shed the light.

Speaker 15 But I don't think that whole shedding the light thing really worked.

Speaker 15 Several of the hosts Alan has been running on WBCQ since the early days are still spewing racist, violent rhetoric, like Hal Turner.

Speaker 15 Even though Alan says that Hal's toned it down since his days advocating that people kill immigrants, Hal's still on WBCQ five days a week. And anyway, Alan says, Hal's show

Speaker 15 gets you thinking.

Speaker 5 He gets you thinking.

Speaker 15 Without being specific, here's Alan with Angela on their radio show just last month, recycling tired critiques of rap music.

Speaker 39 There are some cultures and maybe even races

Speaker 18 that are steeped in violence and proud of it.

Speaker 40 The kind of music I believe it makes people

Speaker 18 angry.

Speaker 39 I mean, free speech, peace, love, and understanding. You know, we talk about the music.

Speaker 40 Yeah, PM Stand has gone too damn far. Whoops.
Too far. Too far.
It has...

Speaker 15 In some ways, Allen's transformation is not that remarkable.

Speaker 15 There are plenty of hippies who aged into libertarians or right-wingers, and it's not surprising that a lot of these guys use free speech as a cover for people to say whatever they want without any regard for truth or for consequences.

Speaker 15 To me, though, the remarkable part of Alan's story is that with Shortwave, he's been able to get these hateful voices out to the far reaches of the globe.

Speaker 15 No board, no meaningful oversight from the FCC, Just him, at his discretion.

Speaker 15 Thanks in part to Alan Weiner, the demonstrably false, fatalistic, and paranoid programming of World's Last Chance, the hateful rhetoric of Hal Turner, the cultist preachings of R.G.

Speaker 15 Stair, that's a huge part of what shortwave listeners around the world hear as the voice of American broadcasting.

Speaker 15 And people are hearing this stuff. Almost every day, Alan gets letters or emails from listeners around the country and around the planet.

Speaker 5 Just got one from China. Came in this morning.

Speaker 18 Yeah, on email.

Speaker 12 They picked up the station.

Speaker 5 They really liked the programming.

Speaker 15 Wow, so this one came in from Australia. Dear sir, Madam, hope you had a nice Christmas holiday.
This year, I have Christmas alone, but listen to your program makes me happy.

Speaker 5 From Antwerp Network. Signal was nice and clear.

Speaker 15 They have New York, Philadelphia, Australia.

Speaker 5 Got a bunch of Russian listeners, too. And here's one from Buffalo, New York.
In Antarctica at the scientific state. dear sir,

Speaker 5 on Saturday, September 23rd.

Speaker 15 And people are still coming to Alan for a platform, too.

Speaker 15 Within an hour of me first arriving at WBCQ,

Speaker 15 Alan's phone rang.

Speaker 11 Nowhere,

Speaker 22 so we

Speaker 37 pay attention to the lightning.

Speaker 11 Yeah, okay. Here, go.

Speaker 23 Go ahead.

Speaker 23 Hello.

Speaker 15 As he disappeared out the door, I could hear Alan explaining his simple, well-worn policy to the shortwave curious caller. Free speech radio.
Yeah, we'll get you on the air. It's 50 bucks an hour.

Speaker 15 WBCQ is just one station. There are about a dozen privately run shortwave stations operating out of the U.S.
today.

Speaker 15 And they're almost all owned or operated by religious groups, mostly the Christian right.

Speaker 15 There is one station out of Tennessee that seems to still mostly play sermons by Pete Peters.

Speaker 15 He was the white supremacist preacher you heard last episode who helped bring together the far reaches of the right in the 1990s. Like R.G.

Speaker 15 Stare, he's dead now too, though you wouldn't know it on shortwave.

Speaker 15 But while these fanatical voices might be some of the loudest on shortwave radio today, there are at least some shortwave listeners who want something else.

Speaker 15 We know because we asked.

Speaker 3 Hello to the people at WNYC.

Speaker 15 For several months, we've been running this show on the media on WRMI. It's a shortwave station out of Florida and one of the few that isn't owned by a religious group.

Speaker 15 And in the breaks, we've been asking people to get in touch to tell us about their shortwave experience.

Speaker 3 As a little boy, I'd often run in to tell my mom and dad about something that they didn't read about until the next day in the paper when it broke.

Speaker 41 I was a Peace Corps volunteer first in Micronesia, then in Sri Lanka. I listened to shortwave radio during both tours and I have listened to shortwave radio ever since.

Speaker 22 There's something about tuning through the static and landing on real broadcasts from halfway across the world that just feels cool.

Speaker 15 We did get emails from people all over the world, but for the most part, the voicemails we received were from North Americans. And over and over again, they told us the same thing.

Speaker 15 Shortwave is a way to get out of your media bubble, to get out of the US and Western-centric news cycle.

Speaker 22 It's a way to stay connected to the world, hear different perspectives.

Speaker 41 I regularly listen to Radio Dabanga out of Sudan.

Speaker 3 I love shortwave because of what it offers to people. The ability to freely access information no matter where you are in the world.

Speaker 15 And often they said the broadcasts they hear most don't represent what they love love about the medium.

Speaker 11 So what do you have today?

Speaker 3 Mostly, you've got a lot of religion. Unfortunately, today on shortwave radio, I feel just too much religious programming.

Speaker 37 These days it falls into two categories, Christian preaching and far-right political talk radio type programming.

Speaker 5 I don't really like any of that.

Speaker 3 Thank you for broadcasting your program.

Speaker 7 I did enjoy listening to your program a couple evenings ago.

Speaker 3 That's the kind of content we need today on radio period, let alone shortwave radio.

Speaker 37 There's been a welcome change of content versus the typical religion and talk radio that you hear on shortwave.

Speaker 3 We have the freedom to do that, but we don't have a lot of cultural programming anymore on shortwave radio.

Speaker 22 I don't always agree with your political views, but I still thought it was a very, very cool thing to find you guys. In fact, it made me appreciate the whole thing even more.

Speaker 15 Next time on the divided dial. It turns out on these hollowed out frequencies, pirate broadcasters have been hijacking the airwaves in droves with a more idealistic vision for shortwave.

Speaker 15 But that vision is getting pushback from a very unlikely source. Not the Federal Communications Commission, but a handful of finance bros who want to wrestle the airwaves away from the public.

Speaker 20 Who would have thought that shortwave is now a fabulously valuable to Wall Street?

Speaker 7 The fact is now, Wall Street is deeply invested in it. And so the question is, what is the FCC going to do about all of this?

Speaker 15 On the final episode of this season, it's the battle playing out right now for our shortwaves between the pirates and the profiteers.

Speaker 15 The Divided Dial is written and reported by me, Katie Thornton, and edited by OTM's executive producer, Katya Rogers. Music and sound design is by Jared Paul.

Speaker 15 Jennifer Munson is our technical director. Fact-checking by Graham Haysha.
This series is made possible in part with support from the Fund for Investigative Journalism.

Speaker 15 Special thanks this week to documentarian Joe Lewis for talking with us about his time at The Overcomer, and special thanks, enormous thanks, to everyone who responded to our call out on WRMI.

Speaker 15 It was great to hear back from the Shorewaves. We'll catch you next week.

Speaker 2 On the Media is produced by Molly Rosen, Rebecca Clark Callender, and Candace Wong. Eloise Blondio is our senior producer.
On the Media is a production of WNYC Studios.

Speaker 2 Brooke Gladstone will be back soon.

Speaker 9 We promise.

Speaker 2 I'm Micah Loewinger.

Speaker 2 Hey, it's Micah.

Speaker 2 If you've been enjoying the Divided Dial series as much as we have, come join us in New York on June 11th for a very cool, very low-key live show that I'll be doing with Katie Thornton.

Speaker 2 We'll hear about the crazy lengths Katie went to to bring these stories to life. And we'll talk about what our role is in keeping the public airwaves public.
The event is on June 11th in New York.

Speaker 2 You can find more information at wnyc.org/slash events and in the show notes for today's podcast. Come and nerd out with us on all things radio.
It's going to be really fun.