Share & Tell with Katie Nolan and Kevin Clark

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out.

I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

You're the dumbest person I've ever seen.

It's not good, Kevin.

It's not good.

Right after this ad.

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Oh, my legs aren't shaved enough to do that with it.

Sorry.

Disagree.

I'm going to do it.

I'm going to do it instead.

They're rough.

They're rough.

I get a five o'clock shadow.

Your ankle has never looked more progressive.

That is the most feminist ankle.

I love so much.

You should see my armpits.

Are we rolling still?

Because that would be great.

I don't mind.

Katie Nolan, Kevin Clark.

I need to say this because I've been shamed before about not saying it.

Today is my birthday.

Happy birthday, Pablo.

We just had cupcakes.

We did.

I did.

We did.

I've been a guy who's got a breakfast sandwich.

You were offered them.

I did get half of your breakfast sandwich.

Happy birthday for me.

What'd you get them?

I got him a cake pop and half of my breakfast sandwich.

I was here when we sung happy birthday to him.

I was outside the door.

I couldn't get in.

Because though I've been on this podcast three times now, I don't have a badge.

Katie

does deserve a badge.

No, you should deserve a badge and a gun.

That's right.

Happy birthday to me.

Happy birthday to you.

How old are you?

I'm 38.

Okay, so it doesn't really matter.

No.

Yeah, it's not.

It's not.

We got two years to plan you, the big one.

Right.

It doesn't feel like anything's really changing.

The growth is honestly that I am saying it out loud because historically I'm a person who's like

trying.

I don't, I'm not trying to test people.

it felt like a test when on you would ask me to do this on thursday and then you said oh just kidding can we actually do it on wednesday and i almost said like your birthday

and then i was like

no don't say it and then you can just surprise him by knowing it and make him feel loved and then i woke up to a text from lebetard anyway that it was your birthday so even if i hadn't known dan texted you oh dan no he tweeted no that's what i meant he tweeted that video and that i'm tagged oh yeah yeah yeah yeah i don't know why i have to be embarrassed on your birthday but i i i i didn't like that video

It wasn't a good look for you.

No.

You don't come on.

We're going to not play that video.

What if we played it?

Let's take a look.

I believe we have thought.

I believe we have a clip.

Let's take a look.

Here it is.

Stop throwing to stuff on your page.

Let's take a look.

Let's pull that up.

I really don't like it when people throw to no, no.

Don't play.

Okay, good.

He's going to.

They're going to throw the post.

Obviously, they don't have it ready to go.

That's my fault.

I should have sent that to you guys.

Let's start the show.

Kevin Clark, you're making your debut.

I'm so happy to be here.

Katie Nolan is like a veteran at this.

I feel whatever.

At share and tell.

She just mostly feels whatever.

Sure.

It's getting hard to find things to share and tell.

I haven't had this many things to tell in a long time.

Well, I think we should start with Katie.

Why?

Yes, because Kevin Clark is, I mean, you have a new job.

You work for ESPN and Omaha Productions.

I do.

I host a show called This Is Football.

Already promoting.

I didn't, I didn't ask you to promote it just yet.

What's it on?

Where do I find it?

You can find it wherever you get your podcasts or the ESPN NFL YouTube page and other ESPN social platforms.

Okay.

Kevin is a football expert.

And Katie Nolan just had

one hell of a football weekend, I would say.

70 points.

70 points?

What was that?

For a team I don't like.

For a team that's in.

So, you know, do you have to start liking them?

No.

So actually.

Explain for the people who have not seen all three.

Everybody's got to know.

And I'm sick of saying his name on podcasts.

I have a fiancé.

His name's Dan.

He was middle school best friends with Mike McDaniel, now the head coach of the Miami Dolphins.

So from like a, if you step back from that, if you're not, if you're sick of hearing the story, the sweet thing about it is like, these are two kids who were friends in middle school and then now are both doing the thing they would have always wanted to do at the top of it.

And it's very, very, very cool.

However, when Mike McDaniel was going to go somewhere to be a head coach, I said specifically, as long as it's not in the AFC East.

Yeah.

And then

he didn't,

which is fine.

But now I am going to tons of, I'm going to more Dolphins games than Pat's games by a lot.

And it's, it's

fun.

It's football, so it's fun, but it's also at the same time, you're just like, man,

this isn't my team.

And my team's not really doing anything similar.

I mean, they won this week.

In fact, your team threw not just the first three games of the season, but the first four games of the,

well, actually, not just the first three games of the season, but when you combine it with the last preseason game, they have not yet scored as many points as the Dolphins scored.

Oh, you did the math.

Oh, you did the math.

That's the game that you were API feeding.

That's very nice of you to do that math.

Thank you.

Yeah.

The game that I was watching while also watching the Patriots on Red Zone, because I'm like, this is, they're going to win.

So this isn't really a close game.

So the night before, we were at the McDaniels Space House.

I always say their house looks like a spaceship.

It's so nice and modern and fancy.

Please.

It's a space house.

I don't want to talk too much about it.

I don't know them like that.

Like Dan can do that and then they can be like, hey, don't, I don't want to reveal too much, but it's just

rich people.

I'm envisioning like Apollo 11.

It's like, um, it's like everything's a built-in, you know?

So like you don't ever see any of their stuff, and then they push the wall and it opens.

And you're like, oh, it's a deep closet.

I would never have suspected.

Did they buy it from somebody or did they design the space house?

I think they may have.

They're in the process of redesigning it, but weirdly, I thought they had designed it, but I guess not.

They must have bought it.

That's a

always tinkering.

Always tinkering.

The next innovation.

But it looks like a house that the most futuristic innovator in the NFL is.

A black mirror house where, like, if somebody has a lot of money.

If you want to be really dark about it, yes.

Well, no, they all have these glass houses that cost 11 million dollars and it's always like oh i'm gonna i'm an insurance i'm an insurance adjuster yeah yeah that's all my instagram likes is just these houses incidentally

so we were there that night the night before watching um

it wasn't the night before it was thursday okay so it's like we were watching thursday night football you know as you do on saturday we went over on thursday when we got there sure and um and katie Bunny, Mike McDaniel's wife, came out and said, what?

I'm just acknowledging the first name basis.

Yes.

Her name's Katie.

It's Katie.

Yeah, well, I don't know where Bunny comes from.

They call her Bunny so that we don't get confused, but not that she had the name Bunny first.

I just, that's why I call her Bunny.

You alphaed Mike McDaniels' bunny.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I would like to be very clear.

That's not what happened.

What I meant was it's easier when Dan calls her bunny because then he doesn't always say Katie and people think he's talking about me.

And so now I call her Bunny.

And then as I said bunny, I was like, am I supposed to tell people her name's Bunny?

I can't explain why her name's Bunny.

Can I move on from this?

I'm so nervous to be talking about about this love of any family.

Absolutely.

But Katie came out and said, do you need any dolphin stuff for the game on Sunday?

And I immediately, my shoulders went up and like, I looked at Dan, because you know, when you're, remove the Mike McDaniel of it all.

You know, when you're like with your persons, people that you want to impress, like you want to seem like a good, you know, partner to that person and whatever.

And so I just immediately was like, Does he need me to say yes to this?

And so I like looked at him with a look that was like, I I don't want to.

Do I have to?

And I just went, and he didn't give me anything.

He was just looking at me like

Dan just looks at me like, what's she going to do in this situation?

And I was like, help, help, help, help.

So then I just went, do I have to?

And she said, no.

And I was like, okay, cool.

Then absolutely not.

And she said, it's a whiteout.

So we were white.

You're watching.

The Dolphins score 70 fing points against the team that your Dan and Mike McDaniel grew up in the same city as.

McDaniel was a ball boy.

Everybody knows the story by now.

The TV version of this was very funny to me.

I assume to Kevin as well.

At some point, you just start laughing.

Yes.

But you're there in person watching it.

Like,

what are you and Dan doing as this is unending?

Drinking?

No, we don't do that.

Okay.

You're super stoned.

Allegedly.

In the state of Florida, allegedly.

Right.

Illegal.

I know.

It's shocking.

The most shocking thing every time.

Sports gambling and weed.

What are we doing?

Everything is legal down there.

I know.

Scamming is legal.

That's right.

Just

statutes legalizing Ponzi schemes, but don't smoke weed.

So we were,

what we were doing was laughing at Dan's friend, Chad, who had come from Denver, because as you said,

Dan grew up in Denver, so the Broncos are the team that Mike, a young Mike McDaniel and a young Dan Soder were watching that was in their hometown.

But Mike McDaniel's now a head coach, so you're not assuming he's a Broncos fan.

That doesn't matter.

And Dan was always a 49ers fan, so he's not a Broncos fan.

So this didn't hurt that way.

But their third friend, Chad, who also came to the game with his lovely wife, Jenna, Chad is a Broncos fan.

Chad has always been a Broncos fan.

So Chad was watching.

It would be like watching Dan watch the Dolphins do this to the 49ers.

It would just be a different level of...

And so Chad was having a tough time watching it unfold in the suite of the head coach of the team that was absolutely embarrassing.

Was Chad wearing pity Dolphins gear?

No, Chad wore, I believe, all white because it was a white out.

We all got away with it because it was a whiteout.

So you didn't have to like show any sort of allegiance.

But this is my question for Kevin.

Are we all just Chad now?

Like, are we all just watching our teams get destroyed by the greatest offense in the history of football?

Seriously, yeah, so I don't know how you stop it.

The motion rates are insane.

It's a very

Mike McDaniel runs what a souped up five-year-old would run, which is like fast guy.

If you asked a five-year-old who's watched like 10 games, like, what should we do with football?

He'd be like, let's get a bunch of fast guys and let's do a lot of confusing sh before the snap and then we'll just go from there.

And that's really pretty much the basis of it, the bedstone and the bedrock.

And it's working.

And they have the fastest people in football that they just combined them.

Um, Colin Water wasn't even playing on Sunday, and it seems to not matter.

Absolutely wild.

I've never seen anything like this as far as the speed and like same

Barnwell and I were on a show, a show together a couple days ago, and he was like, What?

2018 Chiefs, uh, 20 2007 Patriots, which Katie remembers.

Uh, those teams didn't even score 60, and now we're at 70.

Now, it takes an institutional rot on the other side of the field.

I was gonna say, is it worth noting that the Broncos are a mess?

I can't believe

I, Sean Payton just might not be into this.

He just might not be into this.

He might just be like...

Do you think this is a cry for help?

Kind of.

Well, he was like, well, also, even afterwards, it was so fatalistic.

He was like, you know, sometimes you just get your butt whipped in the NFL, but this is not that.

And nobody was like, then what is this?

What is this?

What is this?

What is this?

Is this, you just be like, what is beyond butt-whipping?

Yeah.

I don't, I don't know.

So we're just going to see this.

It's not going to be like the Patriots, Katie's Patriots.

They put up a fight.

They had Christian Gonzalez on Tyreek Hill.

It seemed to work a little bit.

They could have won that game, some special teams.

Earlier this season, yes.

Yeah, two weeks ago.

And so

I don't think that they're going to go like 17-0 or whatever and then just romp to the Super Bowl.

I mean, it reminds me actually a little bit of the beginning of the Lamar Jackson MVP year, where guys didn't know what to do.

And I remember going to Baltimore that year, and some of the tight ends were telling me that like there were linebackers on the other team that would just look over to their their

their coaches and just be like what do i do and they're like i don't know

yeah like what do i do these little kids looking up

yeah and so it just i i think a lot of times especially in the nfl there's a shock to the system for like two months and then we figured out guys get well that's that's the case guys get banged up you get the tape kevin you slice up the all 22 and you adjust

i the

a lot of teams like by the way we talked about the o7 patriots they did lose and they almost lost to the giants in week 17 of of the regular season as well

And then they lost two of the Giants.

That must have been painful.

Why are we doing this?

Because they were also a good offensive team.

Yeah.

The then greatest offense we had ever seen.

By a significant team.

I'm interested to know your answer to a question.

Can I ask it of you?

How many good coaches are there in the NFL right now?

Are there usually like Belichick or not?

We're still saying Belichick's good.

Yeah, he is.

He is.

He is.

But like eight or nine, typically.

And then there's a bunch of guys who are just kind of system dependent.

Do they have health?

Do they have a good roster that year?

And there's four or five guys who just can't coach.

Like, I don't think Brandon Staley is capable of anything.

Right.

The Chargers.

Yeah.

The sort of the shines come off of the analytics sort of darling aspect.

Well, he doesn't even, well, he got back into analytics on Sunday.

He killed analytics last year.

So now he's back into analytics.

But speaking of which, like, Mike McDaniel, though, atop like the power poll of both coaches in the NFL right now, but also nerds.

Actual nerd.

Not fake nerd.

Yeah.

Because there's a lot of the, this guy's just a football dork.

And it's like, okay, it's just because they study military history and they don't shower for four days in a row.

And it's like, no, Mike McDaniel is a legitimate, like, he is the first Reddit coach, I think.

And I'd say a couple of things.

I'll put it to you because you know him.

I've

met him less than five times.

You pressed his cabinets.

He comes over and he goes, he does this, and we talk for three minutes and he goes to sleep.

You said the word bunny on this podcast.

And I'm really regretting it.

Truly.

He's never going to be invited back to the

only two things he does is vape and come up with unguardable place.

Is that accurate?

In other words.

Is there a third thing Mike McDaniel does?

I don't think so.

I don't know.

It seems unsustainable.

Does it feel that way to you?

Can we get ahead of where this conversation is going?

Because scoring 70 points are going to be

70 points every single week, but that

they'ren't going to have Sean Payton on the other side having an existential crisis.

But I say it's unsustainable because, according to the DraftKings Sportsbook, the Bills are two and a half point favorites this weekend.

So

I think it's a mixture of a lot of things.

The game is not in Miami, where famously, the heat was such on

the hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hot hole.

Last year, God bless them, but last year the Bills lost.

Oh, this was the thing about the sun.

And And one of a couple, this is actually like a couple of like prominent Bills bloggers actually said, this is when I knew the Bills were eliminated from Super Bowl contention, is they were like, we should call the, like, the National Labor Relations Board because Miami is an unsafe work environment after the game, because it was like so hot on the field and Buffalo couldn't adjust to it.

And I was like, this is

a lot of fun.

You're calling.

The socialist manager on me?

Literally, that's, I saw a couple tweets like that last, this time last year, and and I was like, I've seen enough.

80% humidity, though, is should be illegal.

That gets all up in.

That's too much.

I went down there just to, you know, with it before the game, and I was like, anyone running around in this is out of their mind.

I like it.

I grew up down there.

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So, the other thing that brings us here today is the fact that I read this article in the New York Times.

And the article was...

It's an article that I am always self-conscious about talking about on this show because it's the genre of there's this thing happening on TikTok

and you should know about it.

And Katie is already Mr.

Burnsing because this is her wheelhouse as well.

But it's also Kevin Clark's wheelhouse because the story is titled, If I Embarrass My Baby on TikTok, Will He Stay My Baby Forever?

And it's about how there are these

trends on TikTok in which, and maybe you've seen them, in which parents are throwing slices of cheese at the faces of their kids

and cracking eggs on the heads of their babies.

And it is wildly popular in part because it seems like this is, this is, I guess, news.

When you throw a slice of cheese at a baby, they will do something funny.

And I took from this article

something that I'm not proud of, but the instinct to figure out how to monetize my child.

Truly.

I'm like, okay, I'm not going to throw the cheese.

I'm not going to crack the egg.

Can I stop here there?

If you throw something at a baby, whether it's cheese or not, they'll react in an unusual way because they're babies and they're not.

So I think his point is throw bigger stuff at you, baby.

Get bigger reactions.

Do you know who reacts when you throw stuff at them?

Any human.

I don't know.

Let's find out.

Kevin Clark,

baby defense attorney.

Now listen.

My client

babies can beat the weird reaction to cheese allegations.

Like, this is not abnormal.

But what is abnormal and yet totally normalized is the idea that there are kids out there.

Like the unboxing kid.

You familiar with this kid?

Ryan's toys, who may not be.

I mean this tiny billionaire.

I was going to say, who may not now be 19 years old and a billionaire was making like NBA max contract money annually because he was opening toys.

Which is crazy because opening toys is already the cool thing.

Yeah, and you're making more money off of doing the thing you love to do.

Yeah, right.

That's to do what you love and you never work a day in your life that Ryan's toys he's just making 30 million dollars opening toys the unboxing by the way to get on a something of a tangent about this because i'm fascinated by that

there is something to the idea of like vicariously living through your child and not just um as a parent but like vicariously living through a child who is opening a box full of toys.

And I get that, but for me, it's like by the time I watch that child, who I now know is a millionaire, open his 79th gift even.

I think 79 is my ceiling.

I'm like, okay, I've seen this kid's reactions.

I don't care.

He's not going to give me pure unbridled joy every time.

That's the part that I don't understand.

Totally.

He's like, why don't I can't understand wanting to see a child experience that joy, but the same child experience that same joy three times a week for seven years?

What's the, what are we doing?

I got bad news for you.

Yeah, it's people love it.

Doesn't matter what you think.

I know.

Because this is wildly popular.

And it feels psychological.

It feels like anthropological too.

Like, okay, so

we're like vicariously participating in capitalism through this child.

Yeah, a child's idea of what it means to be

living the dream.

Like, and this, and the spontaneity, the surprise of like, what's in the box?

We got to find out what's in the box.

But if you think about it, like cooking shows, like chopped or whatever, we don't get to eat that food.

So we're living, technically living vicariously through them too.

We're watching them make it, and then we never get to eat it.

And like that should seem, I would think to the generation that is in the same position to us as we are to the generation we're talking about.

But aren't they?

Like, why would you?

Isn't all TV living vicariously?

Well, there's a question on the screen.

There's nothing that like gets delivered to you at the end of it.

Yeah, no, I get the same thing.

If you don't get the thing on Pawn Star.

But you can see the,

yes, you do, if you call.

Call who?

I don't know.

You see, if Project Runway, you get to see the outfit.

Yeah, but you don't get the outfit.

No, I know, but you don't need to get the outfit to appreciate the outfit.

Whereas like the food,

I have no idea what that tastes like.

I can see what it looks like.

I have no idea what it tastes like, what you made.

None.

And I'll never know.

I have a friend who worked at a reality TV company and they said that one day, and they make all these different shows, and they said that one day someone ran from their office in New York City.

They ran out into the sort of newsroom, I guess you could call it, and they just screamed, ghosts are real.

And then they went back in.

I have a ghost take.

Where are we going?

I just hear my ghost take.

It's a reality show discussion that I thought that I would puncture with ghosts to real, but now he has a ghost to realize.

Now we're off to the races.

I would love ghosts to be real because then I grew up Catholic.

Then I could finally believe that, like in my objective mind, that God is real.

That's a pretty mainstream take.

You do not read as a Catholic Yankee fan growing up.

I am both of those things.

The priest of my parish was the Yankees team chaplain.

No.

I have an autographed Derek Jeter spring training training pamphlet that he addressed to Pablo Tor,

which was disheartening because my last name is the same last name as his manager.

Yeah.

Yeah,

Joe Torre.

If you're signing to a kid, don't put a last name.

Yeah, what kids don't have last names?

The resale value on this pamphlet is very low, is my point.

But ghosts are real,

I hope, because then all things are possible.

But isn't,

I don't want to sound stupid, so maybe I should just leave it.

But isn't, aren't you not supposed to believe in?

Aren't those two things at odds technically?

If you were a devout Catholic, I don't think you believe in the paranormal.

I agree.

But I mean, I get what you're saying.

I understand what you're saying, like on a base level, but I don't think that's a good idea.

Pablo wants to know there's something there.

There's just something there.

Two plus two equals five sometimes.

Yes, yes.

And theologically speaking, does the Catholic Church abide by the existence of ghosts?

I don't think.

No.

I don't think.

I think it's seen as the occult.

I'm going to have to call my priest.

It just seems like

it would be outside the boundaries of what of what the belief system is.

I think if you're going by its strictest, I don't even think yoga is chill by Catholicism.

In terms of what I'm supposed to do with my child,

faith aside,

how much I'm supposed to do with her in public, that is both accruing to my self-interest, right?

Like you, this is a story in the New York Times about parents figuring out that children are content and that this is not just like, oh, a wonderful memory we can treasure together forever, but also like, oh, there's, this is doing something for people.

And I wonder, Kevin, as a new dad,

what is your strategy with child content?

Non-existent.

So I have two Instagram accounts, as I think you know.

One is for, is for private, my friends and family.

One is for content, this sort of right.

When we, when we take a look at that, I think that private one follows me.

I don't think we follow each other on that private one.

I think I'm just.

I follow you, you don't follow me back.

Oh.

No,

I I think it's because it's really hard for me to be like, here's my private account, follow me back.

Okay, but do that really today so that I can make sure I...

Okay.

You got to see Teddy.

Other folks

cannot see Teddy, nor will they ever.

Part of that is that my wife works for the Wall Street Journal, investigates and publishes stories on very powerful people.

Occasionally, she gets some blowback on that and

pretty significant.

I wouldn't say threats, but you know, people dig in.

Right.

Actual journalists.

Yeah.

And like, even the other day, somebody came after me because I said something, I said Ryan Day was soft for getting in a fight with 86-year-old Lou Holtz.

And like

immediately, there's one picture of kind of the back of Teddy's head on my Twitter.

And immediately there were like three Ohio State fans being like, he looks like the mailman, bro.

And so like, you just have to get used to that kind of stuff.

And so

that Teddy will never be focused, will never be the focal point of anything content-wise.

Including the fact he is incredibly like Gerber baby cute, fat-cheeked.

This is the thing.

He looks like the dictionary definition of a baby.

A woman at Target, who works at Target the other day, came up to him and said, hey, fat baby.

Just out loud.

PH.

Yes, exactly.

Exactly.

And she didn't even know she was getting an exclusive.

She got to see that baby's face.

That's exactly right.

The decision you've made already to say,

I'm never going to show this kid to anyone.

is not the decision that I made

while we're doing this.

Oh my God.

You can swipe too.

oh my god

so katie nolan is looking at kevin clark's cell phone for the podcast audience i really like that switcher and i'm gonna be honest with you kevin

before i even see this

i'm going to say this baby is cute and you could be showing me a picture of skyline chili like i'm just gonna have to say this is cute

honestly though that that's that's cute baby so but this is so kevin clark's authentically cute baby

is the dilemma here right because i want to see that content because it's daring you to do something with this.

Yeah.

Like, I don't want to turn Violet, my daughter, who's three, who's three.

There you go.

Thank you, Papa.

More baby for me.

I don't want to turn her into a child actor.

But at the same time, I'm like, I don't know.

If Ryan's toys is making $25 million, yeah.

We just turned that camera off.

We have to destroy that camera.

We're going to have to redact that.

Yeah,

it feels.

I have not made this decision.

I'm not saying I'm never going to do it.

In fact, I've already started posting like photos of Violet here and there.

Yeah.

You know?

So

Teddy, as you saw in the photo there, went to his first football game of the weekend, which was in name only was it a football game.

It was a Temple Miami game.

20,000 people in a 70,000 seat stadium.

We had club seats.

We're able to feed him on the couches.

He took his biggest ever poop.

This exact same thing experience that I had in Miami that day.

Like to a T.

Took his biggest ever poop in the club level, had some lentil that I think may have been.

Oh, good.

I'm glad we're reporting this.

Yeah.

And so anyway.

no photos, but

let me tell you about his poop.

But it took like 30 minutes to clean up.

Like, we were in the family family restroom, we had to change them and all that stuff.

And I was thinking, like, this could be amazing content.

I mean, the link, you know, Eagles fans could say, Yeah, I've had, I've been in that bathroom before, right?

Um, and uh, and and I could only do it verbally.

I talked about it on my show on Sunday, this is football via Omaha Productions CSPM.

Um, and then that's enough of that.

No more of that.

I might do it one more time.

That's enough.

I might do it it one more time.

I think two is enough.

But I can't, I thought about those photos becoming public, and I just, I'm not going to do it.

Because where do you draw the line?

Right, right.

I do have content brain.

Dominique Foxworth, our friend, makes fun of me for this all the time.

He asked me what I wanted for my birthday today.

I said, I want you to come on my podcast.

And I said, unironically.

Did he give it to you?

Yeah, he agreed.

Nice.

And now he's bound next week, I think.

That's beautiful.

Okay, cool.

But truly, like, I can't stop seeing my life through the lens of like, is this good content?

And I hate it, but I also feel like it's an evolutionary again, one of those things where I'm like,

that you would produce good content if that were the case.

Oh, I see.

Oh, I see.

Kevin's problem with Pablo Torre finds out is that this isn't football.

Kevin.

Hi.

What did you bring?

What did you bring us?

What did you bring us?

I want to preface this by saying I have a huge amount of respect for scammers.

As a Floridian.

As a Floridian, the two things

I feel,

it is my culture.

I feel like I'm well versed, like a 10,000-hour theory in dealing with scammers, identifying scammers, not signing anything in the presence of scammers, which is important.

Also, bar fights.

I've seen a lot of bar fights and I can kind of, within three or four seconds, identify whether or not somebody or something is a problem.

I'm really good at that.

That is a hell of a claim, but proceed.

I'm just really good.

I'm just like, and also that would extend to geopolitical issues where I'm always just like, yeah, these guys are not Ukraine.

Yeah, no,

no, no, I actually did see that coming.

Or like when North Korea is like, oh, we're testing this stuff.

It's like, all right, buddy, you're going to talk about it.

You're going to do something.

Okay.

Like that kind of thing.

You know, you go to enough spring breaks in Daytona Beach, you understand this.

Yeah, yeah.

And so

all this leads to not the bar fight thing, the scamming, a story in Vox and other places.

And other places.

And other places.

Multiple sources.

It's not an exclusive.

So there's a Deloitte survey that says that Gen Z Americans are three times more likely to get caught up in an online scam than baby boomers, 16% to 5%,

respectively.

Now, there's a couple of things about this.

Number one is that

boomers are sort of branded as people who get caught up in scams.

They're not technologically advanced, all of this stuff.

What I like about this, and by the way,

that's true.

Like I had an extended family member who is a boomer get caught up in a scam the last 24 months or so.

And I'll tell you what didn't happen.

Nobody in my family was like, I am gobsmacked this happened.

Everybody was like, yeah.

No, no, no.

His homepage is yahoo.com.

He was just waiting around.

He was just waiting around to get scammed.

They got him good.

I'll say that.

They got him good.

Damn.

So

what I like about this, it's almost like the scammers, again, we're all praise to the scammers.

Why?

Why are we praising scammers?

Because they're getting it done.

Didn't you hear the stats?

Yeah.

All right.

So

it reminds me a little bit of the game.

Because you play to win the game.

Yeah.

That's why.

I'm not here to lose.

The whole narrative is that Gen Z, they're just on top of things.

They've had the internet since they were three years old.

Right.

So

you feel like because of the reputation of Gen Z, you'd be afraid to go with them.

It's almost like a top cornerback in football.

And this happened like famously with like Namdi Asimov, if you remember him.

Oh, yeah.

Where the whole thing when he was with the Raiders was nobody threw at him.

Nobody threw at him.

Then he goes to the Eagles.

People threw at him.

And it turns out he was just okay.

It was that nobody just tested him in Oakland because it wasn't an issue.

You could throw other places.

And so the scammers, correctly, were like, we've identified Gen Z as incredibly scammable, and we're going right in.

We're going to grab the bull by the horns.

It's working, I would say.

These numbers are

surprising to me, admittedly.

That Gen Z can get scammed.

Because not that they can, but that they are at a rate that is far in excess of

people who learned about the internet through AOL.

I also, I think, though, that you're on the internet so much more that just that numbers-wise has to increase your chance of of opportunities.

Right, there's more chances to touch them to get to them.

I agree, they just want to be involved in stuff.

Like, you ever walk around Soho and there's like a line around the block for something, and you think, oh, it must be like, you know, like shoots or something.

And it's like, it's actually for like a coffee.

And you're just like, what?

It's like, oh, this coffee was on TikTok.

And it's like, okay, I know exactly the store you're talking about.

I do too.

I'm not going to name it.

Because you want to shop at that store on our own.

I do not want.

I went in there one day and I was like, this is not for me.

And I can't even pronounce the name of the.

That's actually why I'm not saying

for anyone.

Oh, yeah.

That's how it's close.

I've never heard of that.

That's another way to feel very old.

Yeah.

It's just, yeah, it's, it's, the vibe's okay, but there's always a long-ass line.

And I'm just like, okay, I'm just not going to do this.

But they're desperate.

Young people.

You could get in that line and scam them.

They want to belong.

These kids need love so badly.

As we said earlier, there's no monoculture, right?

So they just, if, if, if the monoculture is just getting $30,000 lost in some like weird home equity loan scam, that's, that's great for them.

Um, I think think the overarching point here, and like I was a history major in college.

Okay.

And

that does track.

That 100% tracks.

The one thing that I think is important when you study history is like every generation, every person is basically the same.

Like starting in like 900, you'll read stuff and it's like, well, this guy might as well just live right now.

Right.

Everybody's aggressively modern.

There's not really much that's new when you, and also like you, you read about like Abraham Lincoln and George Washington and they've got like crippling self-doubt and you, you know, it's like everybody's everybody's the same.

Everybody's the same.

George Washington was a nightmare to work with.

A nightmare.

Constantly threatening to quit.

Just a real office.

Damn, I'm going to tell him that.

George Washington definitely would have gotten

what's that thing?

Canceled.

Oh.

Well, he hasn't been canceled.

No, he hasn't.

Energy's done.

He's so canceled.

He's not even around yet.

He's done.

That's the thing.

I was going to say like Brazilian lip fillers or whatever it is.

He had the wooden teeth thing.

Yeah, it was a BBL.

It wasn't the first BBL.

It was like hippopotamus teeth, right?

That was like God god for real right yeah it wasn't wooden teeth no hippopotamia

so uh the point is by the way george washington is is canceled um yes but the point is like every generation finally every generation is the same and like there's an old george colin bit about how like everybody says like the kids are a future or whatever and it's like well there's a probably a bunch of losers in the kid generation just by percentage wise mostly most mostly a bunch of losers and then a couple of winners and we had this whole thing where like somehow like the the generation below us, Gen Z, became like progressive-coded.

And so it was like, well, the kids are all right.

They're going to be our future.

And it's like, now Greta Thunberg.

Yeah, exactly.

They're all Greta Thunberg.

Right.

And instead, they're just boomers, but they wear

boomers.

They're little tiny boomers.

And they're getting scammed out of their mouth.

But I do say, I haven't seen, I haven't heard of any Gen Z buying gold coins off of a cable broadcast.

Did you miss the whole NFT thing?

Yes, that's number one.

Yeah, but a lot of us did that.

That was a lot of us.

And I'm looking at you, Jimmy Fallon, whatever the hell that whole thing was.

That was the most obvious thing.

What did Jimmy Fallon do?

Why did he become the face of NFTs?

He and Paris Hilton.

God damn.

It's just like so, I've never seen something that was so transparently like, hey, this isn't a thing.

And everybody was like, you're the idiot.

It's a thing.

And then so quickly now they're like,

by the way, NFTs weren't real and it's done now.

And they were a big scam.

And everyone's like, what?

Crazy.

I was once at a bar on the west side and it was like 5 p.m.

And one of the bartenders was like,

hey, last night, they were talking about, hey, Jimmy Fallon and like some other celebrity came in last night and they like manned the bar and everybody was all amped.

And I was like, that must have been cool.

And he was like, it was a nightmare.

Don't.

That would be my immediate reaction.

Is that sounds like a nightmare?

He laughed at everything.

Yeah, yeah.

He said while laughing.

He was like, it was not

cool.

This is like 2013 or whatever.

So I felt, I thought it was cool.

I would have been like, hey, there's, there's Big JF behind the bar.

That's exciting.

JF.

I'd have been scammed.

I would have been scammed.

I would have been scammed to think it was cool.

So anyway,

I think that...

You're gleeful about this statistic, though.

I know.

You seem like you're dunking.

But here's the difference, right?

You say you haven't heard about Gen Z getting scammed or whatever.

Gold coins.

Gold coins, all this stuff.

I think the difference is, is that Gen Z is smart enough, if there's any difference between generations, to now broadcast it.

Okay.

Like my extended family member, yeah, but they know they're like, ah, I lost $15,000 on this weird offshore thing, this investment.

I invested in

wind

in

Columbia, and that turned out to be a thing and Columbia University.

And

now I've lost that money.

They're not going to put that on TikTok.

I don't know.

I think they're going to have to do that.

They have to put their babies on TikTok.

How old is Gen Z?

Unboxing.

Isn't Gen Z nine to

years old right now?

No.

Nine to 21.

What are you like in college now?

How old is Gen Z?

That's right.

Is what I'm Googling.

Yes.

They are currently between nine and 24 years old.

That was so close.

There are nearly 68 million.

I'm talking about the ones that are 21 to 24.

Okay, well, you can't just do that's elder.

That's elder Z's.

Elders.

Elders.

Yeah, you're addressing the culture by talking to their elders.

I guess that is respectful.

But I don't think the nine-year-olds have babies.

I could be wrong.

I don't know what's going on out there.

I'm not on TikTok.

But the nine-year-olds are getting scammed for sure.

I am.

They're nine.

They're nine.

They're probably dragging down the stats, to be honest.

It's probably like the nine, ten, eleven, twelve that are like just clicking on those things.

They're also spending a bunch of their parents' money on like buyable downloads.

Oh, that's true.

I mean, if we're counting like when somebody gets their parents' credit card and puts them on, like

that's dragging the whole gen down.

Or like

the EA sports thing, the ultimate team stuff, where people spend like $11,000 just to get what?

Truly, $11,000.

I mean, a lot of money just to get like

Harry Kane.

He's one of our own.

He is one of our own, but he's also expensive in Ultimate Team.

That's a scam.

Harry Kane is a scam.

What?

I'm a Todd.

Hard to review somebody else.

I'm a Todd.

I forget that you're at ESPN now.

I like him a lot.

It was a joke.

But he's a Byron Munich now, and now we're winning.

It's addition by subtraction.

We scammed Byron Munich.

Harry Kane.

Love you, Harry.

30 years old.

He doesn't love love you.

30 years old.

30 years old.

Yep.

Yep.

I clicked on an email.

I still have an ESPN email account that I never log into.

And I opened it recently and I clicked on a link in an email and I was notified that I had just fallen for a Disney orchestrated scam.

Oh, yes.

You fell for the fake scam.

That's a scam.

That's a scam.

I failed the test.

So this is like at the airport when, like, once a year, they put through the fake bombs at tsa and they're like all you got secret choppered into a scam that's right under what was that undercover ceo show i got an undercover boss undercover boss yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah jimmy petaro jumped out of the screen and was like you did not do any of the webinars and that was accurate i felt ashamed you should and i found i feel uh secondhand embarrassed yeah yeah yeah yeah do you got do you want to cut this out kind of no i want to move it to the front um

i why would what what did you click on it?

How'd they entice you?

I don't want to say.

I do.

Oh, no.

I do.

Now you must.

Now you must.

It was a link to a thing, and I was like,

oh, oh, this is like, it was, it was a password phishing scam.

What was the link, Pablo?

You know how they could have gotten me?

And maybe this is what happened to you?

Is that they did that, like, you're overdue for your compliance training.

like i send you that email

every day

every day yes pants let's say do you know that uh the ringer people used to get now maybe they still do um there's a we have a famous boss and there were people who would pose this hand in phishing scams they'd be like hey like uh

click on this link and i'd be like that i doubt my famous boss would have

why are we anonymizing bill simmons yeah what i'm trying i don't know i just like i talk about

you got to talk about bill everybody knows his name i it's a it was weird emails we would get Weird phishing emails.

Yeah, I'd be like, it would be like your photos are ready.

Bill's always texting me that.

Bill's always like

email.

Also, email, which he doesn't even use for that kind of stuff.

He's always BBMing me about my photos being ready.

It's Blackbright Messenger.

The kids have no idea what that is.

Brazilian butt messenger.

We didn't get scammed.

Yeah, we did.

How do millennials do in this poll?

Do we get scammed?

We've never been scammed.

Never been scammed.

Congratulations.

We just eat avocado toast and can't afford homes.

Can I tell you the actual time I got scammed that I don't even know if I want to put this on tape?

I'm ready.

Surely.

Have you ever been scammed?

Because I don't think I have, but I

know I'll trust you.

I'm not hearing scammed.

Yeah, me neither.

And this is incredibly vulnerable.

I believe that if you told me that I had, I'd go, that sounds right.

But I can't think right now of an example of when it's happened.

I'm a native New Yorker, right?

I'm walking here.

Sure, I see it.

Very plausibly the thing that I say.

So I was walking here down Fifth Avenue one night.

I was fact-checking at Sports Illustrated, literally checking facts.

This occurs to me now that that was my job.

I'm checking facts.

But you're distracted.

I'm walking down Fifth Avenue, and this Italian guy, and I hate to racialize him, but this is key to the story.

He is in a car and his trunk is open.

And he's like, I'm not going to do the accent because I can't.

Oh, my God.

And Katie is Italian, so I can't do it.

Thank you.

Katie can do it.

Katie can do it.

So he says,

you know, excuse me, excuse me, sir.

Uh, hey, buddy, that's what it would sound like.

We'll translate.

He's like, I'm headed to the airport right now.

I can't pay.

Oh, yeah.

I can't pay the fee on this trunk of high-end leather jackets that I have.

Oh, my God.

How did you fall?

Pablo, dude.

How did you fall?

I don't even want to tell the story.

He's literally falling out the back of the trunk.

This is actually

infringing on my own.

I know.

Why don't you just let him?

Let's let him get through it really fast.

So he's like, hey,

do you want any of these?

I'm trying to get rid of them at discount.

Oh my gosh, it's like 10 p.m.

Oh my god, 10 p.m.

How old are you?

Exactly.

I'm 24 years old.

I know at one point I'm going to feel self-conscious about competing with Kevin Clark in a jacket off.

And I'm like,

so I say to him, and this is true.

I say to him, I don't have cash on me, man.

Sorry.

And I try to leave.

And he's like,

there's a bank right there.

Oh, how convenient.

You went.

I went to a second location.

You want?

Did you want

I wanted this jacket.

Was it that nice of a jacket?

What was the brand?

So I go to the bank.

It was cold.

I go to the bank.

I go to the bank.

I withdraw.

I think it was like $130.

A discount.

That's what I said.

Sounds like a discount.

Processing, fact-checking.

Yep, that sounds like a discount.

And I take out the money and I give it to this guy.

And he hands me this like brown leather jacket.

And

I take it home and I'm like, I did it.

Like, this is what a deal.

And immediately I get home.

And of course, this is just like levels upon levels of naivete.

I try it on.

It doesn't really fit that well.

I'm like,

you didn't even do that.

Jackets are not hard to try in.

He was moving me on.

Jacket goes over with me.

He was hustling me along.

He's like, I got to go to the airport right now.

Come on.

Let's

go to airport with a 10 p.m.

You're taking a rat out.

None of this is accurate.

None of this is exaggerated.

Damn.

So I, I.

You You are the dumbest person I've ever seen.

It's not good, Kevin.

It's not good.

I don't think it's going to get better.

And of course, what I do is I'm like,

and then I sit down on my couch.

Oh, no.

And I'm like, the color transferred?

I'm just like, let me just check something.

And I Google leather jacket scam.

What?

And I see in a message board thread exactly what happened to me complained about by other people.

And I'm like, okay,

I'm an idiot.

That's true.

I threw out the jacket.

But you paid for it.

It was already a sunk cost.

Just keep it.

You think I wanted that reminding me that I did this?

I mean, it's a good reminder so that every day you don't make that same mistake.

Every time you shrug that, okay,

I'm not sure you're talking about this to literally anybody.

Every time you pull your arm in difficulty, you'll go, don't, not getting scammed today.

But you can't bend your arm that much.

So you just go, not getting scammed today.

You know what was even worse the jacket was too big oh my god too big i was like a child swimming in this fake

yeah

yeah

at that point you just have to gain weight yeah justifying bulk up it's jacket season

holy cow pablo that's like a cartoon that's a cartoon season

i i i

i there's no way to spin this

happy birthday to me happy i had a roommate in college who we have to get you a leather jacket by the way yeah

No.

A brown leather.

Have you ever owned a brown leather jacket?

It's going to be a PTSD.

Yeah, for real.

I had a roommate in college who was like, you know, this was 2000.

It was not in college.

It was right after college.

We moved to New York City.

So it was 2009.

And

jobs were tough to come by.

And we had all moved to the city, this like fake third bedroom where they had put up a fake wall.

And this girl lived in this tiny room.

I know this.

And she was like, I need to get a job.

And she wanted to be on Broadway.

But that dream fizzles very quickly when you're in, there's no rent.

And so she was like, I just need to get a job.

So she found that.

There are plays on Broadway about rent.

Exactly.

Yep.

She found a

Craigslist post about this job.

I think it was going to be babysitting kids or something.

And she, there was just the way I found out about this, we were leaving the apartment.

And I was like, she was like, oh, I'll come with you.

I have to go to the bank.

And so I was like,

what are you going to the bank for?

You don't have any money.

You haven't paid rent in two months.

And she was like, I'm going to go to the, because this, I got this job.

They just need me to send them.

They accidentally, they sent me too much.

They sent me my first check But they sent too much and so I just have to send them back a couple hundred and I was like when did that check get there?

When did that get into your account?

She was like yesterday I was like do not do this that checks gonna bounce and then you're just gonna be negative however much money they're making you send back and she was like you don't trust anybody

I don't like how your stories about how you guys are good at avoiding scams.

Not even my own.

It was happening to somebody else.

Yeah.

And I was like, that's clearly, because here's my first instinct is always, what are you trying to get out of this?

My first instinct is, this doesn't feel like

this isn't a normal behavior.

So what is, I try to find the scam in everything.

And it is annoying because sometimes people are just not scamming you.

My instinct is

cool jacket.

But you didn't even try it on.

That's how cool it was.

What I think is that you paid $100 and whatever dollars because you felt bad.

So you didn't want to say no to this Italian guy.

You were

uncomfortable.

Honestly, in New York City, it's an isolating city, and you were just like, I want to give $130 to feel connected to the business.

You didn't want to say no.

It's going to be even more embarrassing.

It's people pleasing.

I think

it's people pleasing.

All right, we're done.

This is act.

I think

I'm coming back to this, but I don't think I'm going to be invited back to this page.

Unfortunately, Katie and I just have stopping scamming stories.

And you have, it seems like maybe an endless pile of being scammed.

You're going to come back because I'm going to want to make you happy

yes

yes surround yourself with people pleasers

all right so we end every show oh yeah with saying what we learned and every time we say what it is that we found out today on pablo tore finds out

i will start start because I found out

that

I shouldn't have told that story.

Yeah.

Me too.

Yeah.

I was going to say, I found out I'm smarter than Pablo at one thing, and it's scams.

It's not everything, but it's one more than I thought when I came into it.

It's a pretty large topic.

Yeah,

that's pretty pivotal, too.

Found out.

We're in downtown Manhattan.

I have to get to LaGuardia, but I cannot pay the fees

on leather jackets.

And I need to just, if you could, there's a bank right downstairs.

Kevin Clark is not coming back.

Yes, on the jackets or no?

Okay.

I think we're done.

Can we end it?

Pablo, what the f?

I know.

Pablo, what?

I investigate stories now.

You had the excuse.

You had no cash on you.

I know.

Pre-PenPal.

PayPal.

It was pre-any of that.

You could have walked away.

What's most embarrassing is that when Kevin was saying, I have to go to Gordia, I was like, oh, he has to go, he has to catch a flight.

Yeah, me too.

I really don't know.

I did not catch on.

Everybody in the room was laughing.

I did not catch on until like three beats in.

I was like, oh.

This has been Pablo Torre finds out a Metalark media production.

And I'll talk to you next time.