Maury Povich and Connie Chung Love Each Other to Death

Welcome to Pablo Torre Finds Out. I am Pablo Torre, and today we're going to find out what this sound is.
Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week. Well,

neither have you.

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Is it possible that Connie gets here late, but then leaves later?

Absolutely. So I do want to clarify for the audience what's happening here is that we're going to get one period of just you, Maury Povich, talking shit about Connie Chung.
No problem.

And then at some point, you're going to get out of here. Right.

And I have my podcast to do. I know, because you're a media magazine.

With Maury Povich. Because you're a media magician.
I mean, I'm going to do the same thing you do when you substitute on PTI. You know,

I got the sign right here, on par with Mari Poe.

On YouTube, Apple, Spotify, all of your social media platforms.

How dare you throw shade at my unrepentant promotion of this show on every possible platform? Wow. In fact, I was shocked the other day when

Wilbon wasn't there.

And so you're always Tony's

partner. And then you didn't show up.
I was not there. It must have been a very important place you were.

I was traveling somewhere and was very heartbroken to not be Tony Kornheiser's emotional support animal.

That's something I really do value the exclusivity of, the intimacy of that relationship. You don't go on with Wilbon mostly.

Wilbon won't have me. Maybe you can put a word in.
No, he wants the other guy. He wants Frank Isola.
He wants Frankie Ice.

He's a different kink.

His thing is a different thing.

But this thing, by the way, this thing, you have to help me explain to the audience how long I've been trying to put this summit together. Starting in the spring, maybe.

Last year. Yeah.
I mean, literally the first time you came on the show, I was like, what if we get- Wait a second. We've never appeared together on your show.
No, no, no.

You, me, and your better half. Yeah.
The three of us have not done this. And you came on the show.
Connie's been on your show. I've been on your show.

The fact that you would want us together, very brave. Well, i've been warned against it it's not i mean she's going to show up here and

i will be clueless as to what's going to come out of her mouth and quite frankly i mean

i'll tell you yeah now i'll even tell her when she we are in the we don't like each other stage right now so far that checks out based on

Something's going on. I don't know.
Maybe it's in the water. But, you know, we've been married for over 40 years.
We love each other to death.

But quite frankly, there are times we do not like each other. And I think this is one of those times.
It is possible. And I want to ask one of those times.
And when she comes on, you'll understand it.

She pays me

much, just grief, a lot of grief. I feel like that general observation is most substantiated by the fact that this chair is empty right now.
I know.

I mean, I'm looking at the empty chair, and quite frankly, it looks good.

I'll tell her when she comes in that we've been discussing how we don't like each other these days.

And I'm going to immediately turn on you and take her side to be aware of the dynamic that's going to happen here. I mean,

I'm going to abandon you immediately. There's a time

in the life of a couple where you just don't know

how to handle it. You know, you're kind of walking on eggshells.
I can go sign this personally. Right.
You know that?

You know, but what I relate to, and part of, again, my genuine love for your love, such as it is, is that you guys are both incredibly individually accomplished.

busy people with trajectories that I know based on both the book that Connie read, which you talked about the last time she was here, and also from my friendship with you, such as the time we beat Nick Cannon in Spades together recently.

Boy, was that an overwhelming victory? I mean, knocked off the battlefield.

I'm defeated. I haven't played spades in 50 years.
Maybe 60.

We got to pull these out.

Y'all beat the draws off. Oh, my God.
Oh, my Lord. Look at that.

Congratulations, Pablo. They got to sign the draw.
You know what, Mike Devil. I would say that the two of us together made history.
Yes, we did. We made podcast history.
Yeah.

But he was a gracious loser. A gracious loser.
And I would beat him again.

I would happily go back and defend our title. You know, I knew about Nick a little bit.
He's some entrepreneur.

You're talking about him just in terms of like his sperm or you're talking about in terms of his sexual business?

But I mean, all of his business ventures. I mean,

he's huge. Well, look, the guy is in all fields prolific.

Yeah,

absolutely. Especially when he's counting up his five-year-olds and three-year-olds.
I keep on forgetting how many kids Nick Cannon has.

I'm looking it up now. It's 12, I think.
It's 12. And he had some number in the same year, which we talked about.

And thankfully, he allowed us to remain, even though you dug in with your dogged reporting.

I had to. I mean, you know, COVID.

Usually I thought COVID produced a lot of dogs for people. A lot of dogs, a lot of podcasts.

And in Nick Cannon's case, multiple lovely, beautiful children whose names he absolutely can tell you on demand. Which is good.
Which is impressive. And I don't know if I could do the same.

So let me turn it back on you. Why? Why are we doing that? Well,

first of all, I know all about your investigations into the basketball stuff and gambling and stuff.

Did you expect it to bleed into baseball?

I am unsurprised because,

I mean, Maury, when you can pitch

a

whatever, a mile per hour slower than what the line is, the legal gambling operator set line is, and you can make people money, the incentive is

so appealing. If you're the least bit unconcerned with the integrity of the sport, you can easily convince yourself I can get away with this.
Right.

Once all these exotic bets came, you knew that it was, there's going to be trouble. Can you imagine if people could bet on whether or not someone would be the father?

Like I said, I'm 500, I'm not 200, I'm 5,000%.

Let's see it. Let's hear it.

When it comes to four-month-old Daniel, Andrew, you are not the father.

Guess what? Shaquille O'Neal and his buddies watch my show all the time, bet lots of money with each other

to find out whether they were the father or not. He was a great lover of the show, and he and his buddies would all watch and bet.

Maury, you could have been leaking inside information to one of Shaq's entourage members and just totally cleaned him out.

You know, it's very interesting about the show. I've talked to many, many

professional athletes, even football players. Oh, hold on.

Your wife's calling you. Oh, boy.

Okay, I'm starting the show without you.

We're three minutes away. You're three minutes away.

Can you tell ask them to send somebody to the lobby? Send somebody to the lobby. Okay, we'll do that.

So that I can just sail in. You're right.
Guess what? I'm on with Pablo right now.

You're part of this. Hello.
So he's going to talk to me. Then we're going to talk together.
Then you're going to stay and talk to him alone and I can leave.

Can I stay with Pablo for the rest of the day?

Yes. I've already been talking, honey.
I want to prepare you for this because

I've told Pablo I've been very honest and transparent. We love each other to the death, but quite frankly, these days we don't like each other.

That's absolutely true, Pablo.

I had a few meltdowns with Maury this past weekend

because, because, because.

okay, hard to blame you. We can explain to everybody how these are periods of our life that we just try to get over.

Yes, okay. Well, that's a hell of a tease.
I'll see you. Somebody will be down to meet you.
Yes. I'm glad that she was okay with me telling you that we're not liking each other these days.

Now I got to figure out what all these becausees. No, you're not going to see it.
You better not be able to.

Oh, boy. No, it's just internal matters.
You sound like an athlete who's like, we had a players-only meeting. Yeah.
Oh, so talking about that. Yes.

I even had to verify this with various people. The show would come on in the morning all around the country.

NFL players would be in the locker room getting ready for practice.

The coaches are upstairs.

They want to get them out on the field and they won't come out till they find out who the father is. I sat at the Super Bowl last year and behind me was Warren Sapp.

I said, this is what I've been told. And Warren said, Absolutely, we wouldn't go out there until we found out who the father was.

So, you're responsible. You yourself, your show is

been responsible for the underperformance of various athletes throughout time. You are a one-man

gambling scandal. Oh, yeah, right.
Oh, boy. Hi, honey.

Nice to see you. Good to see you.
Hi, Pablo. Wow.
Hello. This is, I'm excited.
I got a kiss.

How are you? Thank you for being here. It's cold outside.
I know, honey. I don't need it right now.
I know. I know.
Okay. Why are you being so nice? You haven't been nice all week.
Well,

neither have you.

Hi, Pablo. I'm here to take your side in all arguments.

I'm here to totally betray the friendship that I have with your husband. Thank you.

Not close. Who's right in this argument? Thank you.
Thank you. We met before.
We did. Yeah.
Patrick.

Nice to meet you. Do it again.

Can I stand up? Yes. Of course.
No.

Why, honey, my back. Oh, is it bad? Oh, well, no, it's always bad.
Okay.

Yeah, that's okay.

Is it okay, Pablo?

You did it last time. You're more than welcome.

It's a little better. Good.
Hi, honey.

How are you? How are you? Nice to see you.

Can I stand with Maury?

Can Connie Chung stand next to Maury Povin? Oh.

Unfortunately, no. No.

Okay, I have to go. There's a mark here.
Oh, sorry. That's okay.

There's always a mark, Connie. Come on.
Yeah. And then perfectly.
Let us explain to you how television works. The two of you.

It's a medium in which people

need to cover edits when one of you curses horrifically.

No, we'll leave it all in. We're going to leave it all in.
Is the not-like period over? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Not on this end. Oh,

geez.

Oh.

Thank you.

You walked into a trap, Connie.

I did. This entire scenario has been a.
I'll hold it up. You've been holding me up for years.

Hi, Pablo. You look great.
I love that every time you're like, can I do this thing? And what that thing involves is you showing that you have endurance that far outpaces other people.

No, it's not a test of endurance. It's that I have a bad back.
And when I sit down forever, then I can't get up and walk.

It's a degree of athleticism that is not typically shown in this studio, is my point. Hi, Pablo.
Hello.

I've been waiting.

Why do you like him so much? You know what? He is really smart. He's cool.
He's got a sense of humor. Why are you looking at me? No,

he's very much like you. Oh, thank you.
Wow.

Thank you both. Wow.

I'm impressed.

I was impressed with Pablo the first time I saw him on ESPN. Now, you were impressed when you looked him up and found out he went to Harvard and all that stuff.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's not true.

As soon as I saw him on ESPN, on

probably Wilbon and Cornheiser. Huh? Pardon the interruption.
It was on Pardon the Interruption, I'm pretty sure.

And

he was really good. Yeah.

And I said, Maury,

who's he?

And I said, Papa.

Yeah.

And he said coldly, he's Pablo.

And then I said, I see a little bit of ethnicity there. I did a genetic test

recently. Yeah.
And what happened? What'd you find out? I'm like 11% Chinese. Now she's ready to move in.
I mean, 11%. 11%.

It's even better. So there's some little,

there's like trace amounts of Spanish

care. But the Philippines suffered the way China suffered at the hands of the Japanese.
So, you know. Accurate.

Very, very true. I didn't bring you guys here to talk about geopolitical history, though.
But did you know that Maury is such a history buff and political expert? Seriously. Stop it.

He's very, very into all things political.

Now,

I'm reading this book by Andrew Ross Sorkin called 1929. Yeah.
And I'm reading it because

is it going to happen again?

And, you know, is this bubble, whatever, whatever, everybody, everybody, you know, Bernard Baruch used to say, When the elevator operator is telling you what stock to buy, watch out.

We hired a witch to curse artificial intelligence intelligence for our Halloween episode. Oh, really? What a great idea.
And I think it's happening. I'm here to report that I think the curse worked.

Yeah. Which is to say,

if the economy collapses, because of AI, it might be because of us, I guess, in retrospect. Maybe that wasn't what we wanted to curse.
Yeah, our 401ks, apologies to America. Pablo, how are you?

I'm pretty good. Yeah.
I'm a little,

you know, people ask me, how are you doing? And sort of the subtext of it is, has anyone tried to assassinate you? Right. I was, I was going to say, I mean, it must be a lot of blowback, right?

A lot of people with lots of money wish that I would.

Is there any owner that still takes your calls? Yes. Really? Yeah.
I mean, you guys know how this works, though. Yes.

Because I think there is, I don't know, I'm on my training wheels version of this.

You guys did this for decades, but once people know that you do this kind of thing, the incoming of like, hey, you should know this other sort of thing

so as much as i am i don't know this strange i don't like being known as like the grim reaper of sports journalism i guess if i'm calling bad things are happening to you it's incredibly admirable but i do enjoy that behind the scenes yeah there are people who are very supportive and are here to i don't know share information that I get to vet and decide, is this also something worth doing?

So

I can't believe how many

incidents there are right now. I mean, there's just a plethora of them.
And you remember why Maury decided that he just couldn't continue in sports.

I started out in TV as the 10 o'clock news sportscaster in Washington on Channel 5 or my hometown. And

I used to cover the then Washington Redskins and George Allen was the coach. He was kind of a

he was kind of a Belichick before Belichick kind of a guy.

You know, never liked reporters and everything. Got to yoga very late in life.
Right. So

one day I'm in the locker room and I see, and this is the 70s, okay?

And so in the 70s, there are a lot of stories about drugs that players were using, these illicit drugs, in order to pump up and other stuff, have cocaine outside the game and all that.

And so there's this bottle of pills, and it could have been salt pills. I mean, I didn't know.
I mean, who knows? So I said, Coach, can you tell me what's in that bottle?

And he says, Maury, this is 1973. He says, Maury, are you with us or against us? And I said to myself, I got to get out of sports.
I just, I just got to, how did my father do it for 75 years?

I got to get out of sports. If you have to have a loyalty test, I'm in big trouble.
And that's when I went to news. I dare say that a lot of people have decided to be with them.
Yes.

Yes. I asked Jeff Perlman, okay, who I had on my show, another great sports writer and stuff.
Sports Illustrated.

Yes. And writes great books.
So I said to Jeff, I said, Does this still happen? He said, Absolutely. Oh, yeah.
I would say more than ever.

And by the way, you see that, of course, in

news, actually.

By the way, what's it like to watch CBS right now?

We don't. I mean, I can't.
The paradigm has completely changed in news, and we have so much opinion that the truth doesn't hold value anymore.

And what we end up doing is trying to we as consumers trying to find the truth. We can't find good old-fashioned facts.
And it

distresses me so terribly. CBS is a whole

different organization that I had worked for.

CBS has now been taken over thanks to greedy owners, Sherry Redstone, partnering with David Ellison, Larry Ellison's son.

And

their greed has caused the venerable CBS

to actually

disassemble, to to crash into crumbles.

And then they've hired this,

I don't know what to call Barry Weiss. I don't either.
She is, you know, I just don't know. Yeah, but she's,

you know, we'll see. It's not a big, we'll see as if

she could possibly restore. She was there the other day when Trump goes on 60 Minutes.
I thought it was a decent interview. It was okay.
You're talking about about Nora O'Donnell's interview. Yes.

Well, part of my concern, by the way, and

I find it very,

if I were you, I'd find it very difficult to watch the administration of CBS News wear the costume of CBS News, getting to cosplay to pretend that nothing is different, even though the very premise of their acquisition of the network was, in fact,

at the discretion and blessing of the president, who was the interview subject in that video that we're describing. That's right.

And so just the very basic premise of that feels very hard to stomach if you care about anything resembling adversarial. If you care about serious news.

When I worked at CBS, it was owned by William Paley, and he actually

made it a point of allowing the news division to be autonomous and not have to worry about the bottom line.

He had a president by the name of Frank Stanton who went before Congress time and time again to defend the Fourth Estate.

Now we have a complete dismantling of that kind of social responsibility, that we are watchdogs.

We reporters are watchdogs of government. It's our job.
to report information that is not

fed to us.

So when the Pentagon reporters walked out en masse because they were forced to actually sign these promises that they would not a loyalty test almost literally written down. Yeah.

It was just apprehensive, I mean, it was repulsive. And I'm so glad that they walked out.
I think it's so important what those Pentagon reporters.

Do you have to say the same thing about White House reporters? They're trying to do their job. They're trying to do their job and they're being muzzled.

I am reminded of, of course, Connie's interview of the aforementioned president of the United States back when he was merely one of the most prominent businessmen and celebrities.

This was April 1990 on face-to-face with Connie Chung. And when you're here the last time, we played some of it back.

But

the aftermath, I don't think I ever asked you about.

Because what happens on CBS is that there's a re-air of the interview, this very adversarial interview with Connie is truly holding him to account and calling him out on his bullshit and actually talking about the bullshit and how you are calling him out on it as it's happening about how much he didn't like publicity and talking about Woolman rink, the skating rink in Central Park and his buildings.

He has this posture about it. There's no reason to expose yourself to millions of people.

Do you know why you do it? Why not? You love the publicity. Oh, I hate the publicity.
Oh, come on, get out of here. I'm telling you, I hate the public.

I hate it. And except for the fact that it's fun as a sparring session, I mean, this would normally not even be fun.

This is fine, and this is fun, and all that stuff. But I'm on the other side.
So you're on all these covers.

Playboy, fame. I mean,

it happens to be, it happens to be, or both. It happens to be good for

what I do. But then in August,

CBS re-airs it.

And Donald Trump

rips you. Yes.
And I'll read just the quote that Donald Trump gave to the Joan Rivers show a month after the rebroadcast, because the quote was, this woman has less talent than anybody I know of.

Called you a disaster, said you interviewed like a little child. And then he said this,

she sent me roses afterward, and I won't tell you what I did with the roses.

And then Joan Rivers says, well, hold on, what are you saying? What did you do? He then proceeds to reveal, quote, I cut them up and sent them back. I sent her back the stems.
Actually, I did.

End quote.

Now, wasn't that an incredibly ballsy move? With a roses.

Well, yes, you know why? I sent him flowers because the day after I

I interviewed him on a particular day, we weren't going to air it until we edited it. So on the day I interviewed him, I said,

I had asked him who his friends were and does he have a best friend? And he hemmed and hawed and he said.

Well, I have so many different friends and it would be hard to say a best friend. Is your wife Ivana a best friend?

She's a great friend.

The very next day,

it was announced that they were getting divorced. And he was already having a very public affair with Marla Maples.
So I sent him flowers and I said, don't you think you need to correct the record?

And the only way I could get his attention was to send him flowers. If I just sent him a note, would he actually get it and read it? That's what the origin of the flowers was.

Did he send them back to you cut up? See, I don't remember that at all.

But what he said about her, the way he criticized her, is the same way he criticizes reporters today. Today.

Asking the same kinds of questions, hard questions. He says,

You're the worst reporter ever. Your network is worse.
You're a third-rate reporter. And that's what he does.
Well, that's what he said to Megan Kelly.

Her response, it turned out over time, was very different from your response over time. What was her response? Her response was, at the time, I believe, was to take that as an affront.

And then over time, was to truly join the team.

Oh, yeah. I mean, she

at the George Allen test, right? She decided, I'm going to be on that side of things. Are you with us or against us? I'll just be with you.

That's the way it seems to me, as a matter of who does what when they get challenged.

Can I wrap up my section in about three minutes? And then you can have herself.

Hold on. Let's just settle a couple of outstanding beefs here.
Okay.

Because

when you say say that Connie doesn't like you right now,

what did you do?

What did I do? Yeah, what did you do? I don't even want to ask because I'm clueless. No, you're not.

I'm walking.

You know, I made it very clear.

What camera can I look into just to...

I'm not talking hilarious. No, he's incredulous.

He's feigning incredulity.

Jesus, that was a tough word. Wasn't it? Jesus.
How'd you get that one? I just didn't get it out. Yeah.
That's a tough one. You nailed the landing.
Especially one. Maury, stop it.
Maury. Okay.

What did you do?

I'm not going to talk about it. I didn't do anything.
There was not one thing. It's just my attitude.
It's my general attitude.

I mean, come on. I mean, I'm allowed to have an attitude.
Yeah.

Not according to you. No.

No. Me too, me too.

Well, I know you have an attitude. That's why I'm not too sure I like you these days.
I will say, visually speaking, it does sort of replicate Connie standing and you sitting.

That's the way at school being.

Look, for 40, almost 41 years, I've been Mr. Chung.
Okay. I admit it.

You're an honorary member of the Asian community. I don't mind it.

I don't fight back.

I'm fine being Mr. Chung.
You always had the big name when we got married. I was just this nothing, you know, little local anchor in Washington, and you were the big star.
Okay, fine.

I accepted it, and I was Mr. I've been Mr.
Chung ever since, and I accept it. No, no, no.
I've been Mrs. Povich for a long time, too.

Povich is not part of your name. You have been Connie Chung.
There is no Connie Chung Povich. It's been Connie Chung.
You've kept your entire name. Fine.
I don't care. That's fine.

I just didn't, I didn't feel I looked like your mother.

So, anyway, I'm going. This is going to be the best part of my day.
It's been fine until she came in, but the best part of my day, I'm going to interview a great actor, William H. Mason.

Are you promoting your podcast on my podcast? Yes. You're evading.
Not only are you evading my investigative report, you are promoting.

I wish I had the sign sign so I could do the same thing you do on PTI, but I don't.

Anyway,

nice to be with you all. Oh, Maury.

Do you have to go? Did I have to go?

Should have gone about a minute and a half ago.

Is that it? I'll see you tonight at the salon where we're going to watch the head of CNN. And then later on,

I'll cuddle.

You will cuddle? Yeah, let's cuddle.

Yeah. thank you.
Okay, just remember, I also told Pablo you still hold grudges. Yeah, I get the sense, I get the sense.
I'm sorry, you know,

it's been a delight. Thank you.

Bye.

Just shaking hands. Yeah,

nice to meet you.

See you all later.

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Let's do something from the world of sports. I need you to give me the three worst things

about about being married to Maury Povich. The three worst things about him?

Yeah, we're going to power rank the three worst things about being married to Maury Povich that only Connie Chung would know. Okay.

He cannot multitask.

He can do one thing at a time.

Number two,

he compartmentalizes, which I envy. Men have the capacity to compartmentalize.
Women worry about everything all the time. They worry about work at home, and at home they worry about work.

So I admire the fact that he can compartmentalize, but

I am so envious, it makes me crazy. I think the third thing is that he can do most sports that I can't, just by virtue of the fact that he's tall and strong.

If I were to play golf with him, I would want to try to to beat him, and I know I can't. Basketball is a little bit better, but he's taller.
And if he's guarding me, I have very little chance.

What are Maury Povich's priorities in the year 2025? Okay. It's number one, golf.

Number two, golf.

Number three,

golf.

And that's it. When I wanted to schedule this interview, this summit, I mostly realized that I just needed to work around his golf schedule.
Yes, it's true. But, you know what?

I admire him so much because he decided that when he stopped determining the paternity of every child in America, that he would play golf. And he did that.
But

he believed very strongly in use it or lose it. So he didn't think he was exercising his brain as well as he was exercising his body.

And I think that's great because he can keep sharp by doing his podcasts and he loves to do interviews and he's really good at it. Oh, of course.

I mean, what's not in question is that Maury can still outwork

anybody who's like 40 years younger than him. That is not in question to me.
Exactly. And the other thing, if I may,

without him, I would not have had a career.

Hold on. I don't understand that part.
What do you mean?

Every step of the way, when I was beaten up by,

I don't know, people who thought they had more power than I did, and they did actually have more power, or that they had bigger egos and didn't want me to be on their level,

I would come home and Maury looked at this, what I call a resting bitch face. Maury would pour me a stiff scotch and we'd sit and we'd talk.

And he would talk me off the ledge. Basically, his message was,

don't take your critics seriously. Don't take your naysayers seriously.
Don't take your press seriously because I was getting a little skewered in the press, a lot skewered.

He would say, don't take yourself seriously,

but take your work seriously.

And that's what I did. And I can tell you really that if it had not been for Maury, he was like a partner who helped me every step of the way.

Part of what I want our audience to appreciate about you is that, as if it needs to be resaid on this show, but you were the first woman to co-anchor the CBS Evening News.

You're the first Asian person, the second woman ever to anchor a major network newscast.

And

the competition in the business, the idea that you are a very, I mean, you present, of course, is very pleasant to be around, but lots of people regarded you as a threat. Yeah.

My competitors were mostly men. They didn't look at me as a colleague.
And I am a minority and I am a woman. And because of that, I think that they were expecting acquiescence.
And

I don't know where I got this feeling that I didn't have to count out to them. And I acted as if I was their equal.
But a friend of mine said to me,

the first one through the door faces the heaviest gunfire. So I think that Barbara Walters, who paved the way for all of us, experienced extraordinary gunfire.

And when I came along,

because I was not white, I faced a different kind of gunfire because people were expecting, my colleagues were expecting me to stand down.

And I just couldn't bring myself to stand down. Oh, yeah.
I mean, by the way, like what you said about what Maury's advice was, which is take your work seriously, but take yourself less so. Yes.

Is a creed that I also, part of the reason I think you're, you know, not just a legend in my book, but like a kindred spirit, it is because of that specific

mentality. Like you can do real work, but also laugh at yourself and each other.
Oh, good God, yes. I mean, we, you know how

somewhere people would call those of us who are on the air talent. Right.
That is ridiculous. And I don't know where they got this because we don't have talent.

We just we have a brain. We want to report news equally fairly.
We tell one side, we tell the other side. And what we're doing is presenting it to the public and asking them to make their judgment on

what they believe is true or right or whatever. But we

gather as much truth as we can and we impart it to them. What I wanted to do is, you know, the kind of investigative reporting that you're doing in sports, it's so admirable.

Investigative reporting is so satisfying, so gratifying, because you've uncovered something that nobody else has uncovered, and you're revealing information that people wanted to conceal.

And that's what we're supposed to do, particularly with government when it comes to politics and news. Yes.

Because every single administration, not just this one, has covered up secret information that they want to hold near and dear to their hearts. We in the public know full well that they are lying.

And we need to call it when they do lie.

I'm so worried about our news business these days

because

we've just not, we're not standing up to the standards that we were taught. At some point, I wonder if you...

can identify when you started feeling this because I've been sort of swimming in it for years now. I don't know exactly when it changed.
Okay.

But there was something to the old George Allen story that Maury was telling where

being

in conflict with someone in power gave way to wanting to get along with them.

And I just, I don't know, I grew up thinking that like journalists are supposed to do the thing that makes the powerful person, at the very least, a little uncomfortable. Hell, yes.

And you embodied that. Your interviews, I mean, are clinics.

But, like, listen, I've been investigating Steve Ballmer. Yeah.
Of course, one of the 10 richest people in the world at LastCheck, the richest owner in all of sports.

But I go back and I re-watched your interview of Bill Gates. Ah.
His.

Oh, he walked off.

So remind me, remind us what it was like to get.

the founder of Microsoft, who was, of course, Steve Ballmer's classmate and also his close friend and the guy that Ballmer ultimately succeeded as the CEO of Microsoft.

What was it like to interview him?

We were so impressed with him, but it was at a time when Microsoft was gobbling up small companies and should have been just like Rockefeller and, you know, the oil companies.

I should have been called on it. I think a lot of people make the analogy that competing with Bill Gates is like playing hardball.
I'd say it's more like a knife fight.

I've never heard any of these things. You know, you're saying like knife fight.
That's silliness. It's childish.
I mean, why be a mouthpiece for that kind of silliness? Why doesn't he just say them?

Anyway, because it has nothing to do with the patent lawsuit. It has to do with.
So I was peppering him with questions about these power-hungry moves that he was making against small companies.

And he actually walked out. He walked out of the interview.
People did not remember that because one more wonderful thing that he did was he was able to jump over a chair from a standing position.

And it was so remarkable that it was remembered. It was chiseled in YouTube history.
He does have at least one secret, but we'll fix that.

Is it true that you can leap over a chair from a standing position?

It depends on the size of the chair, but this chair, probably so.

Will you do it? Yeah, I don't know with the microphone on if it's doable. Watch the light, okay? I'll cheat a little bit.

Yes!

I took a step before I did it. It's okay.

Yes. So what's so funny about that is I think of Gates now as like the forerunner, obviously, to someone that, by the way, I went to college with, Mark Zuckerberg.
Oh, yeah.

Who became the new avatar in the social network and with Facebook and all that. Yes.

And Mark Zuckerberg now is like, he's pivoted to like mixed martial arts and he's like working out and he's surfing and he's trying to reassert I would say his masculinity and then I go back and watch your interview with Gates and I'm like Bill Gates was doing the same thing basically saying look at how high I can jump oh my god and shame on all of these people

who have

billions of dollars and they are kowtowing

with no integrity, no principles to the Trump administration. I'm embarrassed for them, but you had asked a question.
You were trying to

reach back and try and figure out when the pendulum swung so wildly off course. Because you were

a standard and a template. Walter Cronkite was.

The other men that you were competing with, by the way, at the very least, the premise was they were of a certain perspective of how to hold powerful people accountable.

And then at some point, flash forward to today, the smash cut, something happened in between, and I don't know what. This is my take on what happened.
When William Paley sold CBS to Larry Tish,

and when

Capital Cities and then ultimately Disney took over ABC,

and then when General Electric took over NBC, prior to that, there was some social responsibility. But when GE and Disney and Larry Tish took over, the bottom line became so important that

we in news divisions had to grovel for ratings so that the networks would be able to charge more from advertisers. So the money we made was more important than the news we covered.

That's what happened. And now it has reached a point at which of no return.
Part of what I think has happened as we think back at your interview with Bill Gates is that at some

every media company gave way to ultimately a very not just corporate ethos when it came to like the stock chart and what matters and what comes at the expense of it, but also the perspective and the mentality of tech companies.

Like tech companies are owning everything. All of us fundamentally who work in media work for tech companies.
Yes.

That's the ethos. That's the strategy.
That's the competition we're trying to beat. And it is like the thing that I think about all the time is

at some point, don't you want to be the good guy in the documentary? Yeah.

That's a great way to put it. I'm looking back at the stuff that you've done and the stuff that Maury's done.

And I'm like, man, like I would like to look back at an interview that I've conducted and be proud. I'm sure you have them.

All I want to point out, though, is simply that part of what I am so tickled by when it comes to your relationship with Maury as this empty chair now signifies the nuances of this relationship is how

you guys have truly like lasted and passed the test of time. There is something about

how you have, by the way, when I was asking like, what are you guys doing in Montana?

Part of the answer is not just Maury's playing golf and you guys are fly fishing. You started a local newspaper.
Oh, yes. I'm so proud of Maury.

He created a newspaper

more than a decade ago, probably 15 years, almost 20. It was kind of a tribute to his father, who was a Washington Post columnist

and reporter for 75 years, a great writer. Shirley Povich, a legend in sports writing.
He really was a legend along the lines of Red Smith. The all-time greats, truly.
Yes. He's in the Hall of Fame.

And he was a lovely man. He was an extremely erudite,

soft-spoken man with a great sense of humor. Maury is just like him, except he's not soft-spoken.

It's a really good newspaper. Yes.
The Flathead Beacon

is a weekly paper serving Northwest Montana. And it was started, as you put it, in 2007, 18 years ago now.
What he did was he hired great journalists

who report the news straight, even. They've gotten every single award that you can imagine from best investigative to best political reporting.
I mean, all the good stuff.

Yeah, it's been named the state's best large weekly, you know,

more than 10 times, it seems like, at this point. And I think the conclusion that we've come to is that

What you can trust are your local news. Yes.
The newspapers are having such a hard time surviving, but any local news newspaper or online newspaper is still trustworthy.

Local news and television is still trustworthy. And they're not stock prices

owned by these massive multinational corporations. They do answer to their consumers.
And people know them.

They're their neighbors, their community leaders. They know everybody, and they trust them.

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I'm so impressed, if I may, with

your podcast and those who produce it because it's so clever and so smart.

And the whole animated

when we jump in with the voiceover, the RPG menu is what we call it.

Nobody else does that, right? No. No one's weird or stoned enough to come up with that device.

Are they smoking Kani Chung weed? Oh, that's right. We are still on the hunt for a fresh crop.
You can get it online, you know. Yeah, if you Google Connie Chung

Weed,

it'll come up and there's a wonderful description of me. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

But I think for a time they were offering a five-pack pre-roll

for

like only five $5 or something like that. An incredible deal.
Yeah. An incredible deal.

I was, I, I couldn't believe that I had that you had, in fact, a potent strain with light green buds and flavors of earth and pine with a hazy head high.

And of course, as we, as you, as we know, as any consumer of this show knows, it's a good strain to wind down with at the end of the night. Yeah.

Has Maury Povich smoked some connie chunk?

Um, Only because it's you, Pablo, I will tell you that

someone

crossed state lines. And

because

we can't order it online, that would not be good. I mean, you're never.

What would they think? What would they think if polite society were to discover this? Exactly. Somebody crossed state lines and brought it to us

just a little bit, teeny little bit.

And

that somebody

was able to

mix it in

a cigarette. Oh, yeah.
Right.

So that it wasn't so potent.

And

I can't do this. I can't tell you.
Why not? Now I'm going to hold you to account. Why can't,

please allow me to dig into this? So far, in my mental image, your husband Maury Povich is smoking a spliff of Connie Chung, part tobacco, part you.

And

what's Maury like

stoned on you?

He

okay.

He's he says, yeah, I don't, I don't want to do any more. I mean, I, he took like one or two puffs

And he went, yeah,

I was turned off to it. I mean, and that,

and I said,

I don't feel anything.

I feel nothing.

And so I said, I better take a few more

toques.

Then I started laughing.

I couldn't stop laughing.

That feels like a bit of a metaphor for what has happened in this episode. Yeah.
Maury said, I've had enough of this woman.

Got it out. And you stayed here and

got to laugh a lot with me. You got it.
Connie Chung, the legend, the better half of Maury Povich, the scoundrel with the booming voice,

who also happens to be undefeated in spades with me when playing against Nick Cannon.

It has been a pleasure to invade your personal lives.

Well,

I take offense that you got the weeds story out of me,

but it's only because it's you, Pablo.

This has been Pablo Torre Finds Out, a Meadowlark media production.

And I'll talk to you next time.

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Like, I actually feel like I got eight hours of sleep. It's truly like a luxury spa moment moment while you're literally horizontal.

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