Dr. Zelana Montminy on the Science of Meaningful Happiness | EP 686

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Speaker 9 Coming up next on Passion Struck.

Speaker 10 We're always going to have things that are thrown at us. So that's inevitable, having the noise of life consume us.

Speaker 10 So the real work is in the micro habits, the day-to-day functions that we employ, the boundaries that we cultivate around our days and our time in order to choose how to respond to things versus just be super, super reactive.

Speaker 10 So most of the time people have content and information coming at them. It all feels very urgent.
Our brain is in fight or flight.

Speaker 10 Someone else's emergency is also ours and it becomes very sort of nebulous and contagious, right?

Speaker 11 Welcome to Passion Struck. I'm your host, John Miles.
This is the show where we explore the art of human flourishing and what it truly means to live like it matters.

Speaker 11 Each week I sit down with change makers, creators, scientists, and everyday heroes to decode the human experience and uncover the tools that help us lead with meaning, heal what hurts, and pursue the fullest expression of who we're capable of becoming.

Speaker 11 Whether you're designing your future, developing as a leader, or seeking deeper alignment in your life, life, this show is your invitation to grow with purpose and act with intention.

Speaker 11 Because the secret to a life of deep purpose, connection, and impact is choosing to live like you matter.

Speaker 11 Welcome back, friends, to Passion Struck episode 686. I'm your host, John Miles, and I am so glad you're here.
Whether you're a longtime listener or joining for the first time, welcome.

Speaker 11 You're part of a growing movement to live intentionally and to create a world where people feel seen valued and like they truly matter if this show has ever helped you take a step toward that life here's how you can help it grow share this episode with someone who needs it leave a five-star rating and review on apple podcast or spotify it's the best way to help others discover these conversations and lastly join our rapidly growing community hub at theignitedlife.net My sub stack where I share weekly frameworks, workbooks, reflections, and behind-the-scenes insights to help you live with greater purpose and connection.

Speaker 11 This week, we launched our brand new series, The Irreplaceables, Rediscovering Human Worth in an Age of Acceleration. In a world where machines are getting faster, smarter, and more capable.

Speaker 11 What truly sets us apart? This series explores qualities that no algorithm can replicate. Empathy, imagination, integrity, and love.
And why our humanity itself is our ultimate competitive edge.

Speaker 11 Earlier this week, Dr.

Speaker 11 Zach Seidler helped us explore what happens when disconnection erodes our sense of belonging, especially among men, and how reclaiming vulnerability and friendship can literally save lives.

Speaker 11 Today, we turn that conversation inward to the disconnection that happens inside us.

Speaker 11 In a culture that glorifies productivity, hacks, and optimization, many of us are quietly losing the ability to simply be present.

Speaker 11 We meditate, journal, track, and measure our every move yet somehow feel more fractured than ever.

Speaker 11 As my guest today says, our pursuit of wellness has become performative, and in trying so hard to be well, we've forgotten how to actually feel alive.

Speaker 11 To unpack why this is happening and what we can do about it, I'm joined by Dr.

Speaker 11 Zelina Momini, behavioral scientist, psychologist, and author of the brand new book, Finding Focus, Own Your Attention in an Age of Distraction.

Speaker 11 A former television contributor and researcher turned thought leader on emotional well-being, Dr.

Speaker 11 Z blends science, storytelling, and soul to help us reclaim the most precious human resources we have, our attention.

Speaker 11 In today's conversation, we explore why the pursuit of wellness can sometimes make us sick. The three focused themes that quietly drain our energy.

Speaker 11 How to replace multitasking with meaningful attention, and why learning to trust ourselves through what she calls tiny trust is the real key to freedom and fulfillment.

Speaker 11 This isn't just about productivity. It's about presence and how to rediscover the wonder of being here now.
Before we begin, a quick reminder.

Speaker 11 my new children's book, You Matter Luma, the first story in the mattering verse, is now available for pre-sale at Barnes ⁇ Noble or wherever books are sold. Links will be in the show notes.

Speaker 11 It's a story for ages four to eight about courage, kindness, and the ripple effect of knowing you matter. Now, let's step into episode 686, Finding Focus in an Age of Distraction with Dr.

Speaker 11 Zelina Momini. Thank you for choosing Passion Struck and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life.
Now, let that journey begin.

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Speaker 12 I am so excited today to have Zilana Momini on Passion Structure. Welcome, Zilana.
How are you today?

Speaker 10 I'm doing great. So happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 20 I'm so excited to have you here as well. I thought I would start with this question.

Speaker 24 I was hoping you might be able to take us back to that UCLA classroom where a student whispers, I'm doing everything right and I feel frozen.

Speaker 13 What did you hear beneath those words?

Speaker 27 And how did that moment change your approach?

Speaker 10 I love that question. I think you're referring to my Oprah essay, right? It was actually extremely powerful.

Speaker 10 So you have a collection of moments in our lives that we can point to that were internally gave pause or some sort of transformative element.

Speaker 10 And I had just finished lecturing about and talking to the graduate students about burnout and anxiety and the attention crisis that we're all living in. And

Speaker 10 she just looked so hopeless. And I think that's what stuck with me the most.
And then the echoes that followed.

Speaker 10 And she just looked at me because everyone always asks me like, hey, so what's the one thing I need to be doing? What's the secret? As if wellness or mental health has this one thing.

Speaker 10 Goodness, if it did, we would all be in it. But they try, right? So she said, she just looked at me.

Speaker 10 She said, I'm literally doing, I don't know where to start of every single thing on my to-do list and the red lights and the saunas and the green juice and the therapy.

Speaker 10 Like I don't even, and it's expensive and I can't afford it all. And I don't know what I'm doing.
And I just can't be well without it. And she was just like so broken about it.

Speaker 10 And then I started to hear, oh yeah, me too. Me too.
Another guy, me, oh my God. Yeah, me too.
I don't know where to start. I don't know.
I don't know.

Speaker 10 And it just, it was like this groups formed around me,

Speaker 10 like bees to honey. What do we do? How do we even start?

Speaker 10 And it dawned on me that, and I knew this, and I felt this in myself over the years, and I certainly did write about this, that our pursuit of wellness and being well and the actual performative element of it has actually barricaded us from being truly well and that we need to spend much less time trying to hit the to-do lists and the products that are being pitched and much more time about actually being alive in the moments that we're living.

Speaker 19 As I was looking at your your background, you live at this intersection of science and storytelling.

Speaker 15 You're a clinician, you're a researcher, you're a TV contributor, you're an author, you're a consultant, you're a mom.

Speaker 15 I was like, wow.

Speaker 19 How do you deal with your own personal tension between performing wellness yourself and feeling well?

Speaker 10 Listen, I think that's a really profound question. And I think you've hit sort of the heart of my work is that I'm a human being.

Speaker 10 So yes, I study these things and I work with clients, but I'm always trying to narrate the chaos of being human right now and make sense of it. And so

Speaker 10 I hope that I speak to the narrative truths that we all feel, but maybe just don't know how to name or that we, and I think that's why some of my social content has really gone viral and been so well accepted is that it's.

Speaker 10 I'm talking about the things that every single one of us knows and lives, but maybe doesn't know exactly how to say it.

Speaker 10 And so throughout my days, I understand that life is cyclical and that we live through seasons of time and that nothing really is forever.

Speaker 10 And I don't mean that like in a sacrum way, people aren't forever. Actually, our experiences, our timelines, if we're going through struggles with one kid, that's going to pass.

Speaker 10 Like it's really tough in the thick of it. But I also know people are like this and we go through things.

Speaker 10 And I think being a parent actually illuminates that very clearly because we think something's really problematic. And then it's like a week or two later, it just fizzles away.

Speaker 10 And so I think leaning into the to those cycles and the seasonality of it is something that I do in order to get through and use what I know and what I preach in my own life.

Speaker 10 And I also think, honestly, I don't subscribe to balance. And I know that's a bit counterintuitive.
I don't think balance exists. I think it's a hard metric.

Speaker 10 And I think when people talk about balance, they're probably not using the word accurately enough. But for me and for so many of my clients, it's much more about what are we prioritizing?

Speaker 10 How does that match our value system and our intentions for that day or that week? And some weeks, like my work will take precedent.

Speaker 10 Like right now, my book came out and that's taking time away from my kids and my family, but they were, I'm aligned in that. I'm okay with that.
I don't feel shame about that.

Speaker 10 And then some weeks, my kids or my, some days, my kids, or my spouse, or my dog.

Speaker 10 So I think it's so much less about trying to be balanced, the scale to be balanced, and much more about am I doing what lights me up? Do I find purpose in anything?

Speaker 10 Am I actually remembering what I'm doing? And am I attuned and intentional about those moments?

Speaker 21 Well, that's one of the reasons I wanted to have you on the show so much is the podcast is really about the power of intentionality and the importance of being present in your life.

Speaker 33 So your brand new book, which came out in September, Finding Focus, Own Your Attention

Speaker 20 in an Age of Distraction, really hits that head on the nail.

Speaker 26 Why did you think now was the right time for the book?

Speaker 10 Well, I think that there hasn't been a more urgent time to talk about the epidemic of distraction.

Speaker 10 I believe that we're really living through a global crisis where our nervous systems are entirely overloaded by constant input.

Speaker 10 Technology and our sort of productivity culture that glorifies like constant busyness has essentially rewired our brain for task switching and fragmentation, which leaves us emotionally exhausted.

Speaker 10 We have tons of unresolved grief and it's really eroding our capacity to sustain attention, to be present for ourselves and each other.

Speaker 10 And so we live through this like this world of disconnection and depletion. And so that's why I wrote the book because

Speaker 10 our attention has been hijacked as someone else's profit margin, but the cost isn't just productivity, which most people think about when they think about focus.

Speaker 10 It's actually the real cost, the more expensive cost is the presence, the empathy, and the meaning that we've lost touch with.

Speaker 34 When I started to examine this and I started to look at all the symptoms that are out there, whether it's the loneliness epidemic, so many high schoolers who feel sad and hopeless, et cetera, to me, what this is really causing is a crisis of mattering.

Speaker 26 in my view.

Speaker 24 And I feel like so many people, because of what's happening, start feeling more and more invisible to who they are and how they're showing up to the people around them.

Speaker 5 And I think it's that emptiness that is causing so much of this grief and despair that so many people are feeling around the world.

Speaker 10 And I think you've hit the nail. I do think it is a crisis of mattering, and I love that lens.

Speaker 10 I do think that focus and attention is actually even deeper than that, the crisis of attention that we're in. It's almost like a prerequisite for mattering because you can't feel that you matter.

Speaker 10 You can't experience belonging or mattering

Speaker 10 if you're not aligned with other people, if you're not connecting deeply with others. Mattering is actually relational.
So it requires connections and attunement.

Speaker 10 And when our collective attention is hijacked by all the noise, by all the metrics, the distractions, the things we say yes to, we can't even experience, we don't have the presence of mind to even know we matter, right?

Speaker 10 Because it's mattering is such an emotional thing, but I feel like attention and focus is even, it's almost like more existential.

Speaker 10 It's like, I mattering is about not feeling significant and attention really is also about, I can't even,

Speaker 10 I don't even know my version of reality. Like, how many times a day do people come home and they don't even know what they've done for the day?

Speaker 10 Like they just are on autopilot because they're not attuned, they're not paying attention, they're not focused on any one activity.

Speaker 10 Like we drive home without knowing where we're going and we just arrive. So I think that's why so many people describe feeling really numb right now and unappreciated too, because

Speaker 10 our sense of what's even real has just eroded. And that requires attention and it's something that we've lost touch with.

Speaker 11 Yeah, thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 27 I'm sure you're familiar with Allison Wood Brooks.

Speaker 29 She came out with a book last year. talk and she teaches a great course how to talk gooder in life and in work.

Speaker 36 I think that's her course.

Speaker 5 Anyway, she and I were having a discussion and what she said made this real to me.

Speaker 28 She said, when you're having a conversation with another person, you're really holding up a mirror to yourself because you see yourself in their stories, in their life.

Speaker 22 But if you're not paying attention, you miss that whole connection.

Speaker 19 And the more that starts happening, the more this breakdown happens.

Speaker 15 And I think...

Speaker 37 You were talking about a few different words, and I think it's important to ground the audience in them.

Speaker 30 You mentioned attention, you mentioned focus.

Speaker 18 I think you also mentioned concentration, but I think there's a key difference between those three words.

Speaker 22 Why does it matter?

Speaker 10 It matters because

Speaker 10 We have to start becoming emotionally granular to our experience. And when I say that, and what I actually mean is our vocabulary and the narrative that we tell ourselves matters.

Speaker 10 And so when we go through our day without really paying much attention to any one thing and we're saying, oh, I'm so mad at him. I'm so this.

Speaker 10 And we're just using words without understanding really like the depth of the experience.

Speaker 10 We lose being able to confront the things that we need to confront to move through it. So we might not actually be mad.

Speaker 10 We might be just really jealous or we might be feeling hurt or insignificant, like you said.

Speaker 10 So I think it's important to differentiate attention versus focus and concentration so that we understand that those are actually very different things, although people use them interchangeably all the time.

Speaker 10 So, I think that we have to understand that attention is the brain's like spotlight on one thing. And I talk about this in the book: it's the capacity to notice something in your environment.

Speaker 10 And I think that's really

Speaker 10 more passive and it's broad, it's almost like an umbrella. Attention is always happening, but it's what kind of orients you to what you're doing, right?

Speaker 10 Focus is more of a directional, directed state, so it's a little more active,

Speaker 10 and focus is attention.

Speaker 10 It's a form of attention, but it's with intention. So you're consciously choosing what to attune to, where to place your attention.

Speaker 10 So focus is actually a choice, which is why so many people feel like they have no control anymore because they've given away focus. They don't even, they're not intentional about what they respond to.

Speaker 10 And then concentration is the more, it's the stamina. It's like the ethos behind your focus.
It's how much cognitive energy you're applying to that one thing. It's almost like a Zoom function, right?

Speaker 10 On a camera.

Speaker 22 Thank you for going through those.

Speaker 30 And I think it's important as well.

Speaker 13 I came out with a book myself last year called Passion Struck.

Speaker 38 And I go through these 12 different principles in it, but the last one was all on this topic.

Speaker 25 And

Speaker 5 the lens I put this through was I used one of the famous sayings from Stephen Covey.

Speaker 40 the main thing about the main thing is keeping the main thing.

Speaker 31 And so many of us aren't focusing on the main thing anymore.

Speaker 35 And you use the word autopilot, I've updated it to, I think, so many people today are living what I call the pinball life.

Speaker 15 They're acting as if they're the pinball in the game of pinball, and they just bounce off of all the things that they hit that they run into.

Speaker 24 And

Speaker 13 you write that many of us have outsourced our attention, like that pinball, to algorithms, alerts, even our routines.

Speaker 18 How do we recognize the line between

Speaker 24 being that pinball and controlling the pinball?

Speaker 10 Great question. And we're always going to have things that are thrown at us.
So that's inevitable is having the noise of life consume us.

Speaker 10 So the real work is in the micro habits, the day-to-day functions that we employ, the boundaries that we cultivate around our days and our time in order to choose how to respond to things versus just be super, super reactive.

Speaker 10 So most of the time, people have content and information coming at them and they just, it all feels very urgent. Our brain is in fight or flight.

Speaker 10 Someone else's emergency is also ours and it becomes very sort of nebulous and contagious, right?

Speaker 10 And so it's very critical that we take moments of time to outline priorities that are important and urgent. and knock things out in chunks, understanding that our brain can't focus inevitably.

Speaker 10 We don't have an unlimited amount of attention and focus, by the way. Most people think we do, but we don't.

Speaker 10 So to really block out those moments of time where we can attune to certain things and understand that things will come at us and things will want to distract us.

Speaker 10 We'll want to pull towards something else for relief, because it's really hard for us to sit with the discomfort of focus because our brain just isn't trained for that.

Speaker 10 And I think it's just about intention and it's about micro habits.

Speaker 10 And something as simple as just maybe not reaching for your phone the minute you wake up is a really effective tool that sets your day up for less distraction.

Speaker 10 Our brain is like wet cement when we wake up. And so it takes about 30 minutes for it to harden, 30 to 40 minutes.

Speaker 10 And so if we harden, if our brain hardens in someone else's world with social media and scrolling through emails that all feel intense that we have to respond to and all of, that's a different day.

Speaker 10 than you're going to have if you take that time for your brain to harden, as I say, being in your own world, attuning to what matters to you, and setting yourself up for success for the rest of the day.

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Speaker 11 You're listening to Passion Struck on the Passion Struck Network. Now, back to my conversation with Silana Momini.
I love that.

Speaker 32 Myself, I start my day off early in the morning.

Speaker 31 Typically, I get up around 5, 5, 15.

Speaker 22 And the first thing I do is I go for about an hour walk.

Speaker 18 And for the first 30 minutes, I just spend it in mindfulness.

Speaker 15 I don't listen to anything.

Speaker 35 I just try to tune in and sense the world around me.

Speaker 18 And I love that time of day because I feel like your senses are more alive.

Speaker 5 and you smell, you sense things a lot more.

Speaker 32 So I try to just let myself move into that and set my intentions for the day.

Speaker 31 And then I'll do like I did today, listen to a podcast episode of a guest I've got coming on or listen to an audio book or something like that.

Speaker 25 But I agree with you.

Speaker 22 I think it's so important to really not go on your phone, not use devices, not do those types of things until you allow yourself at least a half an hour or 45 minutes into your day to just set the conditions for how you want to live it.

Speaker 13 At least it works for me.

Speaker 10 Yeah, it's fantastic. Now, not everybody has the luxury of time.
So many people sometimes are waking up at the crack of dawn to get to work, or they have little kids jumping all over them.

Speaker 10 And so, again, when I talked about seasons earlier in the episode, I think we have to be really cognizant. That is a season of life.
My kids no longer jump on me in bed at five in the morning.

Speaker 10 They're 13, 11, and 5, although my five-year-old does actually sometimes, but not as much, right?

Speaker 10 And so, like physically they need less of me it's developmentally on point we've moved through that season so if you're in a season of life where you might not have the luxury of taking time for yourself or making a coffee in silence or whatever it is just know that you still have power over your outcomes in that day for example if you have things that are taking away your focus right when you wake up, maybe try to set your night up so that once everyone is in bed, you have time for yourself and you can map out how you're going to start the next day and what you're going to employ.

Speaker 10 And maybe don't grab your phone first thing and model to your kids like that you're present with them, or maybe carve out a little extra chunk of time in the morning to take time for each other yourself, or whatever that is, or go outside for a split second and take a breath.

Speaker 10 So there's lots of things that we can do in the seasons we're in.

Speaker 15 So

Speaker 30 earlier this week, we had a major heist that happened at the Louvre.

Speaker 19 And I know you come from a French background and I want to use this as a segue because it was thieves that went in there and did that heist.

Speaker 12 But you talk about focused thieves.

Speaker 23 What are the three thieves that you see in high performers who are a lot of my audience, parents and students, and how do they masquerade as productivity?

Speaker 10 I love that Louvre story, by the way.

Speaker 10 And what I love the most is that they did it at 9.30 in the morning, which very nice work-life balance even for thieves uh they even brought a platform out and lifted it up in midday it was real funny so we have

Speaker 10 only in paris we have our noise thieves right so that's like the constant inputs the overstimulation the notifications the news the chatter the text the comparisons like that's one of the thieves that happens to us a lot and it keeps us in high alert for those things like we seek out those quick hits of dopamine and the novelty because of those, like it triggers this network in our brain that expects that.

Speaker 10 And it's overstimulating. So we mistake that busyness often for meaning.
And that's probably why I dug into this topic because everyone is feeling so burnt out.

Speaker 10 And it couldn't be just the job or the spouse or the kids, right? It's deeper than that. So I really feel like this is at the core.

Speaker 10 There's like the emotional thieves where we are in a culture that avoids discomfort at all costs and boredom.

Speaker 10 We sort of filled our lives so that we don't ever have to feel uncomfortable or just that we have to slow down.

Speaker 10 We keep going because honestly, a lot of us don't really want to address the stuff that's hard to like the unspoken grief, the disappointment of maybe your partner spoke to you in a way that you didn't like this morning, but it's so much easier to triple screen on Netflix and buy groceries at the same time and sit right next to him than to actually address it.

Speaker 10 So those are all the kinds of things that we're dealing with throughout the day. And then There's multiple things I talk about a lot in the book.
I think that's like the emotional thief.

Speaker 10 We feel like we have to fill every pause so we don't have to feel anything. And that's our emotional avoidance that fractures our ability to really pay attention to anything and to focus.

Speaker 10 And so when you can actually sit through that discomfort, and I actually talk a lot about prescribing boredom to ourselves because we don't feel it anymore, but it's almost like brain training.

Speaker 10 It's like emotional tolerance and focus training, right? So those are just some of them, but there's lots of thieves. I highlighted a few in the book, but we, there's so many more.

Speaker 10 There's constant overstimulation.

Speaker 10 That's the overwhelm thief, thief right we over the over stimulation is mistaken for productivity and we say oh we're being so productive right but we're actually not it keeps our stress responses activated there's also the myth of multitasking which i'm not sure if you want to talk about later but that's a whole other thief that takes us away from actually doing anything and doing anything well.

Speaker 10 And that's just such a part of our culture. We glorify it in such a profound way.
It's really dangerous.

Speaker 11 Well, maybe we'll just hit on that that right now.

Speaker 22 I remember I, at the time, I was a senior executive at Lowe's. I was leading all, I was in their IT organization leading all application development.

Speaker 26 So that was, to put it in perspective, about a billion and a half dollar budget, thousands of resources around the world.

Speaker 21 And I had 12 direct reports.

Speaker 31 And at the time, our portfolio

Speaker 38 had somewhere over, it was like 300 programs and 800 projects.

Speaker 22 and i remember one of my direct reports said to me in a one-on-one that i'm the best multitasker that he had ever seen and at the time i took it as a compliment but the more mature i've gotten in my career and i look back the more i see it as a weakness at that point in my career because i was choosing to focus on so many things and oftentimes going back to stephen covey i wasn't focusing on the main thing that was truly the most important thing at the time.

Speaker 37 And I think science has shown us that multitasking is something that really is not

Speaker 19 a strength for anyone.

Speaker 20 Why is that the case?

Speaker 10 Well, because the brain actually doesn't multitask. It just task switches.

Speaker 10 So the human brain cannot run tasks in parallel. It just, it goes back and forth between them.

Speaker 10 So every time you toggle between an email and a conversation or between Slack and doing your work, whatever it is, like there's a part of your brain that has to reorient and it reboots context.

Speaker 10 And every time

Speaker 10 you have to reorient, there was this incredible study that showed it takes about 23 to 25 minutes on average to fully regain focus. Minutes.
I didn't misspeak. That's not seconds.

Speaker 10 So it takes 23 to 25 minutes to fully regain focus and energy. So that constant task shifting and context shifting is flooding our brain and we just can't do it.
We're just exhausted.

Speaker 10 We can't retain things. We have lower creativity and we're losing huge chunks of time pretending that we're multitasking.

Speaker 22 In my case, I don't think I was, I was pretending, I was having to do it because my life, I was living my work life by meetings.

Speaker 30 And I learned this lesson so so much that now I try to eliminate almost all meetings.

Speaker 13 You can't eliminate them all, but if it is not focused on a quick result and an outcome, I don't do it anymore because all those meetings were keeping me so distracted instead of what I really need to focus on.

Speaker 10 And sometimes meetings are important. There's connection, there's rapport between client and whatever it is.

Speaker 10 It's important to bake that into a system in which when you are doing your work, you're chunking that out so that you can actually sustain focus. You're not doing multiple things at one time.

Speaker 10 There's an illusion of productivity. Oh, I just have to because there's so much coming at me.
It's just not how it works. When you actually single task, you're much more productive.

Speaker 10 You get a lot more done. You're much more efficient by about 40%.

Speaker 10 So you get a dopamine hit. Like it feels good to check off multiple boxes at one time.
And it feels like progress, but what we're actually doing is fragmenting our presence.

Speaker 10 We're not actually multiplying output.

Speaker 22 Well, Well, the way that you organize your book is you start out with building the foundation and you go into initially a vision and commitment, starting with

Speaker 13 who we want to be, not what we want to do. And we've talked about this a little bit about setting some type of ritual, but what do you suggest for a listener on how to set?

Speaker 18 a daily focus of intention

Speaker 10 well i think it has to start with whatever period you have that you have a moment to calibrate what it is that's worthy of your attention in that day. And everything feels like a lot.

Speaker 10 Like so many of us are just utterly overwhelmed by tasks and by things that are coming at us.

Speaker 10 And parents have so much more to deal with in terms of just the forms that need to be filled out, the things that need to be purchased constantly.

Speaker 10 Just non-stop and not even talking about the invisible and mental labor of caretaking or parenting or whatever it is that you're you're doing outside of your job. So there's a lot.

Speaker 10 And I think because of that, we have a responsibility to create rituals for ourselves within our days

Speaker 10 where we take time to be intentional about what it is that we're tackling for that day and to schedule in.

Speaker 10 If you're a person who needs to scroll through social media and thinks that's restorative, it's actually not at all. It's still content that you're digesting, but then factor that into your day.

Speaker 10 Don't just do it like we talked about just on autopilot. Actually say, okay, this is my scroll time.
I scheduled this into my calendar. I have 10 minutes to scroll through Instagram.

Speaker 10 Starts now and put that timer on. So you're actually giving yourself the time to do that versus just telling yourself, I can't do that.
But then the other chunks of time, don't do that.

Speaker 10 So being really intentional about how you create your day and factor in those kinds of rituals is important.

Speaker 11 And the other thing that you bring up that's important is sleep.

Speaker 15 Yes.

Speaker 5 And this is something I concentrate on a lot, all the way from my habits of when I go to bed, when I wake up, and trying to seem, see it consistent as possible to circadian rhythm and trying to make sure that I'm outside.

Speaker 22 when light first comes up and then I take a walk during nightfall.

Speaker 35 So I have that balance.

Speaker 25 But what do you also recommend on about caffeine, winding down, timing, those sorts of things?

Speaker 10 Sleep is essentially our operating system reboot. Like we shut down our computer, we have to shut down our body.
We need it for our nervous system and for everything to function well.

Speaker 10 You could do every hack in the world and nothing's going to really make a dent if you don't have a sound sleep routine in place and sleep hygiene.

Speaker 10 So I would say that what you were talking about, the light is really important. Exposing yourself to daylight first thing in the morning, like when you wake is critical.

Speaker 10 I think creating also like that digital sunset, sundown, sun up, right?

Speaker 10 Like power down your screens if you can 30 to 60 minutes before bed because your need, your brain needs a drop in stimulation to cue the melatonin to start.

Speaker 10 Melatonin is the hormone that we need to have a balanced sleep. So that's important.
You can implement sensory cues too.

Speaker 10 Like you can light a candle, you can turn the lights down, you can grab a book that tells your body like okay it's time to sleep soon i can feel it coming you can brain dump if you're someone who wakes up in the middle of the night with a million things on your mind and it's just like you have an active brain i call it a brain dump so you write on a pad of paper anything that's in your brain just like dump it on the paper and then in the morning when you have time you'll figure out how to factor that into your day or your schedule if you need to

Speaker 10 and so i think that those are important i think circadian alignment like you were talking about, is really great. Waking up at the same time, going to bed at the same time is important for your body.

Speaker 10 It strengthens your emotional stability. And I think what some people misunderstand about sleep is that it's not just the end of your day.

Speaker 10 It's like a full day start, like your focus the next day, your emotional equilibrium the next day actually depends on how you end your day before and the day prior to that.

Speaker 10 So it's really about being very intentional about that because a rested brain, it's going to work so much better for you in every facet of your life. And you're just going to live much more deeply.

Speaker 11 I also wanted to ask you, what are your thoughts?

Speaker 15 And I'll hold one up here.

Speaker 37 I guess I have it upside down.

Speaker 13 This is a nootropic that I like to take from prescriptions.

Speaker 35 This one happens to be methylene blue.

Speaker 31 They have another one that's methylene blue and caffeine and some other things. I also like the timeline products for cellular regeneration.
I do coffee.

Speaker 15 I only drink organic, try to look for things that have mold testing in them.

Speaker 18 But what are some of the foods that you think are best, especially for people who get that energy low in the afternoon?

Speaker 10 Yeah. And so I do have a whole chapter on nutrition.
And you did ask me about caffeine, and I forgot to reply about that.

Speaker 10 But I do think caffeine is fine as long as it's, and actually some elements of coffee can be really supportive with attention and focus, but definitely not past early afternoon, if at all.

Speaker 10 And I would say just

Speaker 10 a couple cups and just cap it would be ideal.

Speaker 10 In terms of supplement, like actual supplements, I think first of all, we really need to focus on foundational foods and just, like everybody says, like supporting your health, which means colors, which means antioxidants, which means all of the things that we always hear about, right?

Speaker 10 I think that if you're having for energy boosts, I actually think I've been digging into collagen and creatine a little bit.

Speaker 10 I think some amino acids and neurotransmitter precursors can be really interesting for sustained energy and for sleep as well.

Speaker 10 And I hesitate to recommend certain supplements just because every body is so different. I think magnesium is phenomenal for sleep.
I think we, most of us have very little of it.

Speaker 10 But I think overall, we need to focus on food sources and go from there and really nail that first.

Speaker 11 I take Bub's collagen.

Speaker 12 That's my go-to in coffee.

Speaker 31 And what you just said about magnesium, I remember interviewing Dom D'Agostino a couple of years ago.

Speaker 13 I asked him, what is the one supplement that if you would have people take that people don't have enough of?

Speaker 40 And he said magnesium, but you have to make sure that the magnesium that you need is the right one for what you're lacking.

Speaker 34 Some people need it.

Speaker 22 for sleep.

Speaker 13 Other people need it to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 22 So it just depends on what brand.

Speaker 15 Yeah, it's great.

Speaker 10 It's great great overall we're lacking in it our brain requires it so we can't always get it from food which is important and it really calms the nervous system it supports all sorts of functions so i would focus on the glycinate versus like citrate kind if but you guys have to talk to your doctors and figure that out Just before you and I hit the air, I was outside with my dogs, just trying to get in some midday sun and activity.

Speaker 12 And you say that nature gives us soft fascination.

Speaker 22 Where do you personally go when you need to refill your attention?

Speaker 35 And why is nature so important?

Speaker 10 Nature is critical. I always try to just get outside, even if I can't physically go to a park or a space like that.
Just being outside is restorative. It recalibrates us.

Speaker 10 We're never meant to process the world mostly through screens, which is how many of us kind of function. So our brain was meant to attune to sound and wind and light and sun and rhythms and textures.

Speaker 10 And so that's how

Speaker 10 we need to bring that nature, those elements, those textures back into my life and honestly, into anyone's life. And I think even just short exposures, the science has shown to be very helpful.

Speaker 10 So even 10, five to 10 minutes outdoors can lower our stress hormones and regulate our heart rate and all of those great things. And they even say, I did a deep dive into this.

Speaker 10 If you have to be in an office for most of the day, granted, definitely try to take your lunch outside or go for a walk during a phone call can be helpful. I try to do that sometimes.

Speaker 10 But even house, like even a plant, like putting a plant in an office has been shown to also lower stress and nourish our brain. So I think there's little things we can do.

Speaker 10 We can always try to step outside, looking away from your screen toward a tree or whatever it is, ending your day with a few minutes of an attention walk outside, no headphones or earpods, like nothing, no input.

Speaker 10 Just try for five minutes. It's going to feel really challenging because our brain just isn't trained for that anymore.
But we need to recalibrate because our nervous system is suffering.

Speaker 21 So one of the things that you do in the book is you give different examples of concentration training from five minute focus intervals to pomodoro to long form reading, et cetera.

Speaker 29 What's your recommended on-ramp for each personality type?

Speaker 10 Ooh, that's a big question. I think it's not really dependent on personality types.

Speaker 10 I think it's just dependent on how well you can currently focus, how often you reach toward distractions or want to interrupt your focus time.

Speaker 10 And so I think definitely focus has to be trained and

Speaker 10 we have to be able to sustain our voluntary attention. So I think it has to do more, less with sort of personality types and more to do with like, how good are you at it already?

Speaker 10 And I think you just start small. Most of us are really not great at it.
So set a timer for three to five minutes, honestly. It can be super, super simple.
And you can just,

Speaker 10 it's not a meditation, but just to think that, to focus on one thing, I call it single tasking for five minutes. Try not to reach for anything else or think about anything else.

Speaker 10 And then you're going to start little by little. building that muscle back.
You might drift and then just go back and notice that drift, but go back. And it's really important.

Speaker 10 The best thing we can do is that monotasking, choosing that one thing, even if you're doing something monotonous, like washing dishes, reading, writing, whatever it is, have a defined start time and only do that one thing for that chunk of time.

Speaker 10 No background music, no background TV, no toggling, no tabs. This builds our neural endurance and it's really important for all of us.

Speaker 11 So I love that.

Speaker 13 And you talked about scrolling before and putting a time limit on it.

Speaker 18 And I think a lot of us default to taking a break by scrolling.

Speaker 5 But is is there a memory tactic that we could use that actually sticks for busy brains?

Speaker 10 A memory tactic. Oh, to improve our working memory.

Speaker 15 Right.

Speaker 10 Yeah. I think there's all sorts of fun things we can be doing and puzzles.
I think word searches are great.

Speaker 10 Crossword puzzles. Even just.

Speaker 10 trying to memorize a phone number. We don't do that anymore.
Our brain is just not adjusted to that anymore.

Speaker 10 So instead of having everything in your contacts, try to memorize a number or something, learn something new. Our brain grows when there's novelty and repetition of connections.

Speaker 10 So that's what we have to really focus on.

Speaker 11 I absolutely love that.

Speaker 42 I was recently back at my college alma mater with all my rugby buddies.

Speaker 18 And that was actually a topic that came up back in the day.

Speaker 15 How if you wanted to get someone's number, how you're so good at memorizing.

Speaker 13 And

Speaker 42 now we're given a number and 90% of the time we can't remember it.

Speaker 38 So you get in this habit of tapping someone's phone or asking for the number because it's a lost skill.

Speaker 10 Totally lost skill. And it's, and it's not that we're adjusting to it.
It's that our brain is just,

Speaker 10 it's not evolved. Our brain isn't evolved to function like this.
And we have to get it back. And that's why so many of us feel so depleted and exhausted and overwhelmed.

Speaker 10 Even with all the tools, even with all the efficiency tools, like we're just, we're, we're in a bad place. We're the loneliest generation ever, even though we're the most connected.

Speaker 10 There's just so many things.

Speaker 11 One of the things that I did want to explore was this idea of tiny trusts.

Speaker 32 And you write in the book, every time that I keep a tiny promise to myself, I prove I can create space for my life without needing a perfect system.

Speaker 15 And I love that.

Speaker 29 What's one tiny trust that's changed how you relate to your own focus?

Speaker 10 Ooh, I like that. Yeah, these tiny trusts teach our nervous system that we're capable of things and that we're dependable.

Speaker 10 I think that what are my tiny, I feel like there's tiny trusts throughout the day, like throughout every moment. And there's things that I often put aside that I say that I'll get to.

Speaker 10 And then I do get to them tomorrow or the next day. And it teaches my brain that my words matter and that I can keep my promise.
I don't just like not do it at all, but I do get to that.

Speaker 10 And that's like a bridge for myself.

Speaker 10 Little things like not touching my phone for 10 minutes when I'm trying to focus and sticking to to that, drinking a full glass of water because I'm really bad at remembering to do that sometimes.

Speaker 10 It's like I'm training myself that I'm capable, that I can keep my promises. And then it's not, it's about consistency.
It's not about perfection at all.

Speaker 33 So earlier on in the conversation, we talked about attention and I had you give the difference between attention, concentration, and focus.

Speaker 22 And we talked a little bit about mattering.

Speaker 18 I want to come back to it through the lens of relationships as force force multipliers.

Speaker 29 How does attention, given and received, repair our closeness with our partners, kids, or our work teams?

Speaker 13 And is there a favorite active listening micro habit that you use or recommend?

Speaker 10 So I actually just wrote about this yesterday on Instagram and it's resonating deeply with people. I really think that it's...

Speaker 8 That's where I got it.

Speaker 10 Yeah, I do think that attention is a currency of connection these days. I think that it's minimal, that we are just, we're depleted.

Speaker 10 We're wired to have to connect with each other, to be able to respond and to sense each other's like emotional states. And our shared attention is how we co-regulate.

Speaker 10 It's how our nervous system learns.

Speaker 10 It's really important to be able to look in someone's eyes and not have to look away or track their tone or feel like that sort of human chemistry, whether it's like platonic or romantic.

Speaker 10 I think that, you know, people often think that

Speaker 10 disconnection comes from distance or not being together, but it actually comes from attention that's divided.

Speaker 10 And so I think that we're living in a world that really has glorified these surface connections. Like we have followers, we have texts, we have all these things that we exchange with people.

Speaker 10 And it's on the surface level makes us feel like we're content, that we have a lot of people in our life, but really we're not. There's no depth.
So we're not with individuals.

Speaker 10 We're full of people, but we're not really seeing who we fully are. And we need that.
I think think that's one of the biggest issues in today's dating world.

Speaker 10 And I just think that attention is a really rare form of love. And you asked, like, how do we do that? I mean, it's,

Speaker 10 it's really simple, but we've walked away from it. Like, we have to stick with the discomfort.

Speaker 10 We have to move past those moments where it's like, oh, she's been quiet for a long time, but I'm going to stay. I'm going to stay.
I'm going to stick with this.

Speaker 10 And that's when intimacy starts to build, when you can tolerate each other's discomfort and be there for that moment, those moments.

Speaker 22 Zilana, I was hoping that we might be able to do a live exercise if you're up for it.

Speaker 18 I was going to pick the live calendar audit and maybe we can pick a scenario and think about your rock exercise.

Speaker 35 And

Speaker 5 so people can understand how to apply a little bit of this.

Speaker 10 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 22 So maybe we'll just pick something that's going on in my life.

Speaker 23 So my mother-in-law is getting ready to move closer to us.

Speaker 42 And so there are a whole bunch of activities that we need to do to prepare for it.

Speaker 40 And I keep finding myself, this happened to me earlier, that I'm putting it on the back burner instead of giving it the precedence that it needs because the timing is key because we need everything delivered to where she's going to live so that as soon as it gets here, we can have all the accommodations done.

Speaker 34 So how do I put the rocks before other things that I'm doing and prioritize this to give it the attention it deserves.

Speaker 10 And so, for those of you who don't know this metaphor, it's really about rocks, pebbles, and sand. And if you fill your jar with sand first, there's obviously no room for the rocks.

Speaker 10 But if you start with the rocks first and then the pebbles, so the rocks are like the things that matter the most, which is health, family, like work, rest, relationships, et cetera.

Speaker 10 And then you've got the pebbles, like that's like the supportive stuff, like the meetings, the errands, the logistics of life. And then the sand is the reactive noise.

Speaker 10 It's like the scrolling, the emails, the obligations that like don't really do much for your life.

Speaker 10 So if you put the rocks first and then the pebbles, the sand sort of settles in around that. So you can still do some of those things, but they don't take precedent.

Speaker 10 So I think that's what you're referring to, right? And so when you look at your calendar and audit your life, I suggest maybe color coding. So maybe green.

Speaker 10 can be the rock and the red is like the pebble and the gray is like the sand or something like that. And then you have to start layering in what's critical

Speaker 10 to your rocks, like the things that matter. And so putting her into your home, getting the things ready, that takes precedent.

Speaker 10 And so tracking back from when the due date is for that and maybe give yourself a little cushion in case you lag a little bit. So I always say never schedule things exactly when you need them done.

Speaker 10 You should always give yourself a few days of a window because life happens, things come up.

Speaker 10 And then track back from there and map out how, how many rocks am I targeting targeting per day? And is my time actually

Speaker 10 like when I look at my calendars, most of my time actually going toward the pebbles and the sand? Probably is. So, how can I put back those rocks and start from there first?

Speaker 10 So, always start with the big picture, the mattering, the purpose-driven stuff, the stuff that was required for family, for health.

Speaker 10 And then you can schedule in the other stuff, like the work, the meetings, the other things. And I think that's the lens we always need to take.

Speaker 10 And I find color coding to to be very effective in this.

Speaker 11 Zilana, thank you so much for sharing that.

Speaker 37 My last question for you is this: What does it mean to you to live a passion-struck life?

Speaker 10 I think you have to live in every moment. You have to actually live and be alive in the moments that we choose.
I think attunement and where we place our attention is living a passion-struck life.

Speaker 15 Love it.

Speaker 13 Where can the listeners go to learn more about you and your work?

Speaker 10 On Instagram as dr.zelana, I have tons of content and resources and then my website, drzelana.com, drslana.com, tons of free resources that walk people through all sorts of things and weave in neuroscience and actionable tools and lots.

Speaker 11 It was such an honor to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining us on Passion Strike.

Speaker 10 I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 11 That's a wrap on today's conversation with Dr. Zelina Momini.
What I love about this episode is how it reminds us that focus isn't about control, it's about connection.

Speaker 11 It's not balance we need, it's alignment with what truly matters. Here are three reflections to carry with you.
Your attention is your most powerful currency. Spend it where it matters.

Speaker 11 Second, healing doesn't come from managing yourself perfectly. It comes from safety, tenderness, and trust.

Speaker 11 And third, every tiny trust you keep with yourself builds the foundation for the focus you crave.

Speaker 11 If this conversation helped you rethink your relationship with attention or gave you tools to bring more presence in your life, then consider paying the fee.

Speaker 11 Subscribe to our YouTube channel for full episodes, highlights, and behind-the-scenes moments that bring these conversations to life.

Speaker 11 Share it with someone who needs to hear it and leave a five-star rating or review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Speaker 11 It helps new listeners discover Passion Struck and join our growing movement for intentional living.

Speaker 11 You can also find key takeaways, companion workbooks, and extended insights at theignitedlife.net, my sub stack for living with intention and purpose.

Speaker 11 Coming up next week on Passion Struck, we continue our series, The Irreplaceables, with Elias Friedman, the visionary founder and photographer behind The Doggist.

Speaker 11 We explore how empathy, attention, and storytelling connect us not only to each other, but to every living thing.

Speaker 3 The dog doesn't have to ask you a question of like, how are you doing?

Speaker 3 Just being in their presence. And they have an ability to listen and sense the way you're feeling.
And whether it's eye contact, touch, warmth, letting you connect with them.

Speaker 3 There's just something that has a powerful way of making you feel better and de-escalating and relieving stress. They're the best listeners.

Speaker 3 And even though they don't speak to you, they know exactly what to say. And there's also a stigma around mental health.
Not everyone's going to raise their hand and say, I need help.

Speaker 3 So with a dog, you don't have to raise your hand. They just show up for you.

Speaker 11 Until next time, focus on what truly matters. Protect your attention like it's sacred.
And as always, live life, Passion Star.

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Speaker 6 Protecting what matters most is at the core of American freedom. Your family, your health, your future.
For generations, prevention and personal responsibility have kept us strong.

Speaker 6 But growing government interference now threatens that independence. Our health doesn't improve with limits on vaccine access and red tape from Washington.
Stand strong for the freedom to protect.

Speaker 6 Learn more at fightinfectiousdise.org, paid for by the Partnership to Fight Infectious Disease.