Epstein Saga Continues, Trump Launches Distractions, and Cuomo Relaunches Campaign

Transcript

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Speaker 16 Is it you see it a lot or not?

Speaker 14 See what? What are we worried about?

Speaker 16 Root Canal. I just had Root Canal this morning.
Jesus. I know.
Oh, man. My mouth is not moving.

Speaker 16 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher, and I just had Rude Canal, so I have a lot of mouth issues, Scott.

Speaker 16 I might drool during the show.

Speaker 14 Let's be honest, that's a distraction from the Epstein files, and I'm not falling for it, Kara.

Speaker 16 I'm not falling for it. There's cane, sugar, and duh, and Coke.

Speaker 14 I'm not falling for it.

Speaker 16 It's true. God, I have the worst teeth, Scott.
Do you have good teeth? I have terrible teeth. My head just told me.

Speaker 14 God, I have. I didn't go to the dentist till I was nine, at which point I had eight cavities, and then I fainted in the in the waiting room.

Speaker 14 So no, I don't have good, I don't, we have the Galloways are not blessed with good teeth. I had braces in graduate school.
I was very self-conscious of my teeth. I have veneers.

Speaker 14 I have spent this the GDP of a small nation

Speaker 14 so my teeth can just look reasonable.

Speaker 16 Yeah. I just got a crown.
I had an implant recently. They found another cavity while they were fixing this one today.

Speaker 16 So I, so both sides of my mouth have like, you know, when they put the stuff in, they don't even put me to sleep, which I would prefer.

Speaker 16 I have a great doctor, Dr. Schwartz.
And, but I got to tell you, he moves so fast. I was like, I have pivot to do.
And he goes, you know, you'll, you'll drool. And I said, I get it.
It's fine.

Speaker 16 We got to bring the people their information.

Speaker 14 It's an uncomfortable topic, but I'm a fan of women getting implants. It's important that you feel good about yourself.
And I find that they actually, they may not look real, but they taste real.

Speaker 16 They do not. They do not look good.
Anyway, so thank you, Dr. Schwartz, for doing it so fast.
Dr. Schwartz, the dentist.
Dr. Schwartz, the dentist.
He's my dentist. We're meeting for Whitefish later.

Speaker 16 I don't even know if he's Jewish. Anyway.
Oh, okay.

Speaker 14 Okay.

Speaker 14 I do.

Speaker 14 Spoiler. I'm sorry.
A dentist in D.C. named Dr.
Schwartz.

Speaker 16 All right.

Speaker 14 No, no, he's about to.

Speaker 16 I don't know for sure. Okay.
Yeah, no, he's judged people based on that.

Speaker 14 He's the legislative aide to Mike Johnson.

Speaker 16 Yeah. Okay.
Listen to me. Listen to me.
Scott, even though I'm incredibly unattractive right now and possibly drooling, I don't even know if I am. Do you know who's eyeing us from across the room?

Speaker 14 Who's that?

Speaker 16 None other than New York Times.

Speaker 14 Emily Rodakowski. No, Michael Barbaro.
Oh, we love Michael.

Speaker 16 I know. This is the daily.
Apparently he's got a thing for us. Here's what he said when asked which podcast or creator he would like most to collaborate with.

Speaker 16 Let's listen to the dulcet tones of Michael Barbaro. Is it Barbaro? I don't know.

Speaker 14 The king and queen of Pivot, Kara Swisher and Scott Galloway. I just think those two have an extraordinary chemistry and a tremendous amount of wisdom.

Speaker 17 And so I want to work with them.

Speaker 16 And implants.

Speaker 16 What does that mean he wants to work with us?

Speaker 14 Work what? Oh, my God. So first off, I don't listen to a lot of podcasts.
I listen to daily. I absolutely adore it.
It's like listening to Chamomile T explain the Fed raid hike.

Speaker 16 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 14 I get the sense that guy, I don't know, Michael. I get the sense he's so woke that he records from like

Speaker 14 underneath a weighted blanket in between panic attacks wondering if his cat's milk is ethically sourced i can't even imagine how woke that dude is

Speaker 14 he's a really nice guy he's a nice guy you know what you know what the daily is seriously like i i love it now listen to it it's like having a your like smarter friend whisper in your ear it's worse than you think

Speaker 16 will i stroke you and sometimes

Speaker 14 most of the time it's amazing sometimes though it's literally like it took 23 minutes to give you the same vibe as a really good slack emoji. It's like that took 23 minutes.

Speaker 16 I know, I know, but it's like, stop insulting him. He likes us.
He's more handsome than us. He'd be the, he'd be the best podcast out there.
I know.

Speaker 14 And I know it's number one.

Speaker 16 Apparently, we are. Let's just.

Speaker 14 It's number one.

Speaker 16 No, it shifts back and forth with Joe Rogan and different things. But

Speaker 14 I love how he does that. And pause.
He pauses it. And they know, you know, they pause it.
They're like, okay, put in a huh right now.

Speaker 16 Yeah, that's it. That's it.
I like when he goes, this

Speaker 16 is the daily. I spent one dinner with him completely using his voice, talking to him.

Speaker 14 Oh, look at this video of him. He's dreamy.

Speaker 16 He wasn't. He's dreamy.
They're all dreamy now over there at the New York Times. They're doing a lot of video and a lot of like Vaselines happening.

Speaker 14 Oh, no. Trust me.
Unless they've cleared out the building. I've spent some time there.

Speaker 14 I know.

Speaker 16 But if you look to the video between him and Ezra Klein, it's like, let us in your polycule. I mean, come on.

Speaker 16 We're not good looking enough for there.

Speaker 14 There. No.

Speaker 16 No. No.

Speaker 16 money. Link and Michael are big fans.

Speaker 16 We stack above Russ Dewhat or whoever wants that guy.

Speaker 14 Let's go. Let's take him to dinner and invite over like a kombucha somalier.
That guy's got to be so woke.

Speaker 16 Well, he wants us, so that's all that matters to us.

Speaker 14 It's good to be wanted. Thank you, Michael.

Speaker 16 Thank you, Michael.

Speaker 14 We're very good. I like being objectified.
If he could speak more specifically to our physical attributes outside of your implants, I would appreciate it.

Speaker 14 I have very broad shoulders. I look better.
Michael, just so you know, I'm 60 years old, but naked. I look 59 and 78.
It's you.

Speaker 14 You big, tall drink of lemonade.

Speaker 16 True fact, Michael, I've never seen Scott naked. Actually, I've seen the top half of you naked.
I have.

Speaker 14 You've seen me naked a lot.

Speaker 16 No, I haven't seen the bottom half, and I hope never to. Let me just say, it's on my list of things never to do.

Speaker 14 Nickname and the fraternity. Don't ask me.
Don't ask me.

Speaker 16 I know. The tripod.
You've told me. The tripod.
Tripod, stop it. Stop it.
I don't want to talk about it.

Speaker 16 We're never going to do a nickname.

Speaker 14 You're literally literally goody right now. You're still on the nitrous.

Speaker 16 No, I'm not on nitrous. They didn't give me nitrous.
I love nitrous.

Speaker 14 Oh, what's the point? You have got to start living your life. I go to the dentist.
I want to do that. I have, by the way, I have terrible dental hygiene.

Speaker 14 I brush my teeth twice a day and I'm like, I walk in there and they love this. And I say, I have terrible dental hygiene.

Speaker 14 You're going to give me a bunch of shit in a lecture, none of which I'm going to listen to or use. I get my teeth cleaned every three months.

Speaker 14 And it's always like a hot Brazilian woman who's a single mother. I get really fucked up on the nitrous.
They don't give me nitrous. I start getting emotional.

Speaker 14 And by the end of my teeth cleaning, I'm holding her hand.

Speaker 16 Yeah.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 writing a memo to the dentist about what an amazing professional she is.

Speaker 16 You know, all the people who work at dental things that I've had experiences are great. All the clean, the people who clean.

Speaker 16 Anyway, we'll stop with the dentist stuff, but nonetheless, I don't do nitrous. I got those shots.
I still feel like I'm spitting. In any case, let's talk about it.

Speaker 14 It doesn't matter. I have trays right now.
Do you have trays? I have Invisalign. Every time I go.

Speaker 16 I did use Invisalign. Yes.

Speaker 14 I'm serious. I am paying for my dentist's house in Aspen.
He lives in Aspen. He's never at his dentist.
He's like this. He's like this dentist to the stars, Jonathan Levine.

Speaker 14 And every time I walk in there, they're like, uh-oh, we found something. You need some antibiotic crypto treatment that's going to cost $11,000.
And I'm like, well, it's my teeth.

Speaker 16 I got to spend it. Yeah, you got you.
I can see you going, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, they see you coming.

Speaker 14 Oh, good.

Speaker 16 All the doctors see you coming.

Speaker 14 100%.

Speaker 16 Just say, anyway, we have a lot to get to today.

Speaker 16 Let's get, besides michael we anytime michael call us we're really easy we're totally easy um trump lashes out at his base over the epstein files this is going on and grocos to washington but first look president trump and jerome is trying to speaking of a distraction this is something that's been ongoing he's been he said it's highly unlikely he'll fire fed chair jerome powell let's just be clear he's not allowed to so it is highly unlikely unless he comes up with some scheme despite reports that he was considering it, even showing a draft termination letter to a group of House Republicans to get their buy-in.

Speaker 16 I guess. After those reports rattled markets on Wednesday, I mean, the Dow dropped like a, like a, just like a lot, like a lot.

Speaker 16 And Trump said in an Oval Office presser, we're not planning on doing anything, at which point the markets bounce back.

Speaker 16 Trump also said he was surprised that Powell was appointed, apparently forgetting he was the one who did that back in 2017 and quite effusively. Literally, all these, it's so interesting.

Speaker 16 He just, he's the one who appointed him. He's pretending he didn't, he was like, I don't know who appointed him.
And there he was.

Speaker 16 Trump has been slamming Powell for months for not cutting interest rates, calling him a major loser and a stubborn mule.

Speaker 16 He's now targeting the Fed's $2.5 billion renovation project, suggesting there might be fraud at play, which could be grounds for Powell's ouster. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 16 Everybody, the bankers are being public about it.

Speaker 16 The Wall Street Journal is being very explicit. And Powell himself has been pretty vocal about Fed independence, which means serving at his full term, which is up next year.
It's not that long.

Speaker 16 Let's listen to what he said to the Economic Club of Chicago back in April.

Speaker 18 Our independence is a matter of law.

Speaker 18 Congress has, in our statute, we're not removable except for cause. We serve very long terms, seemingly endless terms.

Speaker 18 So we're protected in the law. So, you know, Congress could change that law, but there's, I don't think there's any danger of that.

Speaker 18 Fed independence has pretty broad support across both political parties and in both sides of the Hill.

Speaker 14 So I think that's not a problem.

Speaker 16 Yeah, Jamie Dimon, Goldman Sachs CEO, David Solomon, other the bank CEOs were touting Fed independence.

Speaker 16 Even Secretary of the Treasury Scott Besson confirmed to Bloomberg that the formal process of finding Powell's successor has begun, but he didn't say that Powell should come out.

Speaker 16 He didn't name any candidates. Reports suggest that Kevin Hassett, director of National Economic Council, is a top contender.
Kevin Warf, former Fed governor, is also in the mix, as is Besant himself.

Speaker 16 So

Speaker 16 what is happening here? And then which of these do you think he will name?

Speaker 14 I think I know exactly what's going on here.

Speaker 14 Well, it's as if we're at the Nuremberg trials. And one of the people on trial starts playing the kazoo, hoping that we'll all forget why we're there.

Speaker 14 It's a magician sawing his assistant in half and then yells out Benghazi, hoping that people will look away. This is what is going on at the White House right now.
It's his comms team and

Speaker 14 Claude or ChatGPT saying, what can I do every day? What can I announce every day that will capture the media's attention such that they look away from the Epstein files?

Speaker 14 Look at how he, this has nothing to do with it.

Speaker 16 He's been at this for a while. Like, Scott, he has.
He's been at House before Destiny, but go ahead.

Speaker 14 He waves a letter talking about the firing, waves a letter, thinking that everyone from Vox Media podcasters to the New York Times to CNBC will go, Chairman Powell, he's threatening to fire him.

Speaker 14 And then the next day he goes, oh, no, I was just kidding. This was all a giant roost.
The day before, it was 85% tariffs on Canada.

Speaker 14 The day before that, it was revoking the citizenship of a talk show host because he doesn't like her. And tomorrow, Kara, it's going to be something else.
He is in a room.

Speaker 16 Coca-Cola didn't turn out to be true. Yeah.

Speaker 16 That's the only one I liked.

Speaker 14 He is in a room. Oh, yeah, that's right.
We have a new trade agreement to

Speaker 14 change the sugar cane or the sugar.

Speaker 16 Make it Mexican Coke. Make it Mexican Coke.

Speaker 14 Every day, his comms team, and this is all he cares about right now, is saying, putting into ChatGPT, what will the media go for in order to ensure that the story?

Speaker 14 of Epstein is pushed out of the news cycle. He had no intention of doing this before the market's reaction.
He has no legal authority whatsoever to start revoking citizenship for no real reason.

Speaker 14 And tomorrow, it'll be something else.

Speaker 16 It's going to be illegal.

Speaker 14 This is.

Speaker 16 Make a guess of what it is. Give me one.
With your sitting in there, what would you tell him to do?

Speaker 14 I think he's going to announce like a 700% tariff on

Speaker 14 SUVs or something. I mean, it's just getting, it's getting so ridiculous and weird and crazy.

Speaker 14 What's amazing to me was that the market responded, that it's still, the market's still taking this guy seriously.

Speaker 16 But everybody wasn't for a minute. Now it was like, ugh.

Speaker 14 Every 24 hours, first off, he and

Speaker 14 our, you know, are the wealthiest man in the world are such attention whores. They are addicted to attention that a heroin act will shoot up heroin going, this is a bad idea.

Speaker 14 I've got my kids for the weekend and my in-laws are coming over. This is probably not a good idea to shoot up, but they can't help it.
They're so addicted.

Speaker 14 These guys are so addicted to attention that they'd rather get attention for something that makes them look stupid than than not be in the news cycle. And he now has a very valid reason because

Speaker 14 I'm not, you know, the one conspiracy I've always held on to.

Speaker 16 Okay, we're going to get to Epstein in a minute, but go ahead. Keep going.

Speaker 14 This is what's going on, Kira. Okay.
This has nothing, this has nothing to do with the chairman.

Speaker 16 So he, but he will stay there. You don't, he, there's no way he's pulling him out.

Speaker 14 Look, okay, so let's go to the substance of the issue. The majority of nations that have grown their economy faster than the rest of the world have one thing in common.

Speaker 14 One, they are in fact democracies.

Speaker 14 China is an exception, but the majority of the economic growth around the world has come from nations that decide that they're going to democratically elect their leaders.

Speaker 14 They have great universities. They're usually blessed with natural resources.
They have the wisdom to engage in alliances such as they can trade. They bring women into the workforce.

Speaker 14 I mean, there's just a few things. They have civil rights.
There's a few things that are the underpinnings of economic growth.

Speaker 14 And one of those things is an independent Fed, because here's the bottom line.

Speaker 14 If you let the government decide what to do with respect to our economic policies and our fiscal policies, you end up with George Washington to George Bush $8 trillion in deficits.

Speaker 14 And then you end up, since George W. Bush, with another $30 trillion in deficits.

Speaker 14 The reason why every fiat currency in history, and it'll happen to the dollar, ends up being worthless is that the political pressure to increase short-term prosperity by printing money or lowering interest rates is greater than these elected leaders' fidelity to the long-term long-term interests of the country.

Speaker 14 And so, when we let politicians who have two and four and six-year cycles make these decisions, we end up making short-term bad decisions that hurt the country in the long term.

Speaker 14 So, the best practice, one of the key best practices across almost every G20 country is they say it's there's too much temptation for the leader to want to get reelected and give a short-term sugar high and lower interest rates.

Speaker 14 And I taught, I taught micro and macroeconomics in graduate school, and they will be teaching in graduate school for years this period where Jerome Powell managed to take inflation from 9% to 2%

Speaker 14 without triggering a recession. That's like literally like sticking the landing.
All right.

Speaker 16 Well, but that said, the impact of Trump's policies over the last few months is starting to show up in the economy. New data out this week is inflation ticking up in June.

Speaker 16 Prices also rose in categories affected by tariffs like toys, furniture, and appliances.

Speaker 16 The job market is starting to show some cracks where there are indicators that consumers are reining in spending. Still, the economy is holding up better than expected.

Speaker 16 Economists now see less risk of a recession than they did three months ago, as you noted, according to a Wall Street Journal survey. Is there another

Speaker 16 shoe to drop? Banks are riding the volatility. Goldman Sachs just posted the best ever quarter for stock trading, and several other banks beat earnings expectations.

Speaker 16 And at the same time, Trump is threatening new sanctions on Russia. You know, another economic, probably

Speaker 16 maybe not so much for our economy.

Speaker 16 If there's no peace deal with Ukraine in the next 50 days, he says he'll launch a secondary tariff, slapping 100% on countries that continue doing business with Russia.

Speaker 16 That would mean countries like India, China, Turkey face heavy tariffs for buying Russian oil, a move that could trigger a global spike in energy prices.

Speaker 16 I doubt, I'm not sure if Putin cares, but talk about these

Speaker 16 circumstances. Where are we with the economy from your perspective?

Speaker 14 The real question on everyone's mind right now, or the most important question we should be asking ourselves, is that at this moment, Kara, is Michael Barbaro touching himself?

Speaker 16 He's back.

Speaker 16 The answer is yes.

Speaker 16 The answer is always yes. But go ahead.

Speaker 14 Well, look, the economic data that came out, I looked at it and I thought, okay, this is the ultimate anger pillow for the far left and the far right.

Speaker 14 There's some indication that certain items, especially the ones subject to tariff, had a greater increase in inflation.

Speaker 14 But at the same time, catastrophists like me are disappointed because the reality is inflation at, I think, at 2.7 or 2.8 just isn't that big a deal.

Speaker 14 And the economy has been more resilient than people who are kind of in the back of their minds looking for some Schadenfreude of the economy collapsing and blaming it on Trump.

Speaker 16 Yeah, it needs to collapse next summer, everybody. But go ahead.

Speaker 14 The headline, and I haven't seen the headline. The headlines from Fox will be economy resilient.
The headline from CNN will be inflation rising. This is, there's something in here here for everyone.

Speaker 14 There's a little bit of data showing that the tariff-sensitive goods services went down. They're not subject to tariffs.

Speaker 14 Some of the industries subject to tariffs

Speaker 14 have shown a little bit of a spike in price. But the reality is we're not going to probably see the effects of this or not until the fall because it takes a while for it to

Speaker 14 snake through the economy. The Russia thing,

Speaker 14 when I immediately knew that the war was not going to end was when I saw Chiron yesterday saying that Trump has demanded that Putin end the war in 50 days. That is just so fucking stupid.

Speaker 14 You really think the Russian people have endured over a million deaths and or casualties. And you think that he's going to scare when the president says it needs to end within 50 days?

Speaker 14 The interesting thing, though, I mean, Russia's economy does, you want to talk about an economy that appears to be cracking. The rubles shot up.

Speaker 14 It's now back to being worth less than a cent, and it did recover a little bit. But this war is really, I mean, I believe they lost, what did they lose? 17 or 18,000 people in Afghanistan.

Speaker 14 They backed out. They've lost a million people here.
And it feels as if the economy is really starting to show tracks there. And I've said this for a long time.

Speaker 14 I think that both Biden and Trump to a lesser extent, but they both deserve credits.

Speaker 14 The greatest investment in terms of ROI in the last 20 years for America has been the $50 or $60 billion a year or about, I don't know, 8% of our military budget that we have given in weapons that is sort of a stimulus to red states and weapons manufacturers in the U.S.

Speaker 14 There's no way Syria would have gone. There's no way we would have been able to take out Iran's air defenses.
It has sent a message to China to be very careful.

Speaker 14 be very careful invading a motivated, technically literate Taiwan. This has been, NATO is coming together.
Europe has been inspired to increase its defense spending.

Speaker 14 This has been the best investment Americans could have made. And all by, by the way, way, we did this without putting a single boot on the ground.

Speaker 14 And you watch what we're going to see in terms of technical innovation around drone technology. So I think this is,

Speaker 14 there are never good wars, but there are less bad wars. The war, the support of Ukraine and the incredibly brave people there is the least bad war in a while.

Speaker 16 Yeah. Although the devastation obviously is.
horrific. I think they'll come bouncing back like that will be the place to be in 10 years.
You know, Ukraine,

Speaker 16 full of technologists, full of, I just, they are, they are a very innovative country in terms of they were before. And now I think more than ever, they're very technically oriented.

Speaker 16 So I think you'll see a piling of Silicon Valley people in there.

Speaker 16 Similar to Latvia, Estonia, all those countries. But Ukraine will be a really, I think, a centerpiece of that when this war is over.

Speaker 16 Yeah, we'll see. When we get back after a quick break, we'll talk about the drama that's not going away anytime soon.

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Speaker 16 Scott, we're back with more news. The Epstein mess continues.
Since we last spoke, House Speaker Mike Johnson has broken with Trump and is calling for the administration to release the Epstein files.

Speaker 16 That said, he voted against doing a debate about whether to release them or not, which is interesting. But Republican Representative Thomas Massey, who's a real thorn

Speaker 16 in Trump's ass, of Kentucky, is attempting to force a vote on the House directing the DOJ to release the files. The measure has been co-sponsored by at least five other Republicans.

Speaker 16 Interestingly, almost three minutes of footage is wiped from the video released by the DOJ of Epstein's cell door, according to the forensic experts working with Wired.

Speaker 16 Maureen Comey, the federal Manhattan federal prosecutor who worked on the Epstein case has been fired. Yes, she is the daughter of James Comey.
She also worked on the Diddy case.

Speaker 16 Meanwhile, President Trump has called the story Democratic bullshit and pretty boring stuff, labeling those who are invested in in as weaklings and stupid. The Democrat stuff isn't working very well.

Speaker 16 Because one incredible thing is Bill O'Reilly was going on about how this was the Biden administration doing all this. And the anchor was like, this was all under the Trump administration.

Speaker 16 It was, he, he died under the Trump administration. He was prosecuted under the Trump administration.
And all of a sudden, Riley went, oh, like speaking of old man, he got it completely wrong.

Speaker 16 Anyway, it's not a Democratic thing. This is, this is all done under Bill Barr and everyone else.
So any change in opinion on whether Republicans will be pushing him?

Speaker 16 Because as I predicted, Laura Ingram, many others sort of tamped it down. Looks like Dan Bungino is not going anywhere.
I said they were all going to

Speaker 16 bow down. That said, I don't know if they'll bow down for too long.

Speaker 16 So any, and obviously, Elon is not bowing down at all. He is tweeting up a storm about this.
And he made a very good point that essentially deny everything,

Speaker 16 make other allegations, and try to make it go away. And he said, it's not going to work this time.

Speaker 16 And he's pushing on it really hard and probably changing the algorithms of X to push a lot of this stuff because it's good for X. I hate to say it.

Speaker 16 But he's certainly not backing down and neither are many others.

Speaker 16 Any thoughts? Alex Jones is not at all, but I'm not sure he matters as much.

Speaker 14 This is a rare, he's an incredible communicator, kind of going. I think the learning is that when everyone is zigging, there's always a huge opportunity to zag.

Speaker 14 When everybody is following one strategy or one investment thesis, then it creates enormous alpha and upside to go the other way.

Speaker 14 And Trump, Anthony Scaramucci pointed this out, and I thought it was so remarkably insightful, that basically every politician in the world says something along the following.

Speaker 14 I'm socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

Speaker 14 I mean, what is 80% of America say that? If you want to describe their politics and they don't want to assign themselves to a party, they go socially liberal, fiscally conservative.

Speaker 16 Actually, that's not true, but go ahead. It's the opposite.
Most in the middle,

Speaker 16 they're more socially conservative, and they want more medical.

Speaker 14 That's where I was headed, was that Trump decided, no, the opportunity is to be fiscally liberal.

Speaker 14 Keynesian, socialist,

Speaker 14 irresponsible fiscal policy.

Speaker 14 Shower money on everyone, increase the size of government, run up deficits. This is like if the Democrats all of a sudden said, oh, we are in charge and we can just continue printing money.

Speaker 14 And all of a sudden, the Democrats are now the adults in the room going, oh my God, this has gotten out of control. He's also, he zags around communication.

Speaker 14 American politics got so politically correct and starched, and there were so many lies and telling people what they wanted to hear and couching everything in

Speaker 14 passive aggressive behavior. And he just came out and said,

Speaker 14 oh, she's fat, or he's an idiot.

Speaker 14 And America, quite frankly, just loved it. They absolutely loved it.
Where he is really,

Speaker 14 this is such a rare misstep for him because if he had just taken the approach of, say, his taxes, he was never going to release his taxes.

Speaker 16 But he lied.

Speaker 14 He lied and said, Oh, of course I'm going to release them. And then, and then wink-winked behind the scenes, don't ever fucking release my taxes.

Speaker 14 If he had done that here, eventually this would have gone away. But he became so defensive and obviously guilty.

Speaker 16 He looks guilty.

Speaker 14 It looks like when I walk in and my dog, my dog Leia, my great Dane, has gotten into the trash, I know it.

Speaker 14 She's sulking around like, uh-oh, won't make eye contact, putting her hindquarters. Yeah, that look.

Speaker 16 We had the dog look.

Speaker 14 He looks like this times 10. He has fanned these flames unbelievably and handled it so poorly.
He could not, I think I said this on Monday.

Speaker 14 If someone had said to him, if he had said, tell me, give me the body language, the statements, and the complexion of someone who is clearly guilty of something and freaked out about it, that is how he has behaved.

Speaker 16 So what should he do? Say, again, as I said, should he just say he's going to release them and then not release them or agree with his people and say it's terrible, nothing can be done about it?

Speaker 16 I mean, in this case, he does have the power to release it. So it's really hard to say, yeah, I agree.

Speaker 16 We should release it and then not release it because he's the one who promised it in the election. He's the one who talked about it incessantly.

Speaker 16 He's the one who trained his followers to be conspiracy theorists, right? And these people are committed, more committed to the conspiracy than they are to him at this point.

Speaker 14 It's just just so weird about this and this statement about what it says about our politics.

Speaker 14 And that is, first off, what do you know the first bipartisan action or the first demonstration of bipartisanship in this fucked up electoral body is over a conspiracy.

Speaker 14 That's what it took to bring Democrats and some Republicans together. It was a conspiracy.
And what's weird about it is I get the sense that they're not,

Speaker 14 the people who are so outraged about this, they're not outraged that they want to know if these people are guilty of raping children. They want to know if their conspiracy is valid.

Speaker 14 It's not, it's just so strange.

Speaker 14 And

Speaker 14 also,

Speaker 14 what I don't get as a following and why I believe, wow, there may be a there there,

Speaker 14 is that if he had just done what any number,

Speaker 14 I mean, at some point this island looked like a little bit like what you would imagine Davos would look like, except with bathrobes and ankle monitors. I mean, these

Speaker 14 this gathering, there were so many people there that are really powerful. And the majority of them have said, yeah, I fucked up.
I thought it was going to be a good time and a good party.

Speaker 14 And everybody else, you know, was going. Yeah.

Speaker 16 You talked about that.

Speaker 14 Keep in mind, Kara, this is a country that has forgiven him after he was found liable for sexual abuse.

Speaker 16 And so many accusations on top of that.

Speaker 14 And he's worried about, and he thinks this is worse.

Speaker 14 So how could it be worse? Yeah.

Speaker 16 Who'd have thought that someone who had

Speaker 14 what are your thoughts here?

Speaker 16 I think I'm fascinated how interested I am now in understanding. I think there's a huge opportunity here for

Speaker 16 fraud, that he will, that they will release certain things, because he keeps saying she can release the credible things, right?

Speaker 16 And so I think there's, there was a joke, I thought Jordan Klepper did a great job talking about that. They're going to try to fake things like fake conversations and things like that.

Speaker 16 There's a huge opportunity for manipulating this information if it does get released. So be dubious of some of it and creating kind of a mess.
So you don't know what's what.

Speaker 16 There's a huge opportunity for really hurting people that are not guilty who just stupidly went to his island. At the same time,

Speaker 16 a lot of it probably is, is probably worse than you think, right? What this guy has on these people, because he was operating for decades, by the way, Jeffrey Epstein. It wasn't a short time.

Speaker 16 And people kept going after he was convicted and in a sweetheart deal. All the people in Florida were involved in the sweetheart deal, including one of Trump's former cabinet members.

Speaker 16 And so, and ended up having to leave because of it. I think Trump is

Speaker 16 he's acting guilty because he is guilty. And the question is, what is he guilty of, right? What exactly is he guilty of? And what proof is there? Why hasn't the proof come out till now?

Speaker 16 You know, you'd think this stuff would come out. And it's kind of interesting that it hasn't.
That's another thing. The other thing is he, he keeps saying if credible evidence, like, what is that?

Speaker 16 What does he say? Everything he says, I pay attention to.

Speaker 16 I think it's a big, giant mess. And

Speaker 16 if I were him, I'd let it all out, like, and let the chips fall where they may and make it confusing for everybody, make them, make it a bigger, hot mess than it is.

Speaker 16 I think it's not going to go away. The Maureen Comey thing,

Speaker 16 why would you do that? Why would you file the prosecutor of Jelene Maxwell? Is he preparing to pardon her? And I think, let me just say, I think Elon has a very good point. What is she doing in jail?

Speaker 16 He's calling it a hoax, the whole thing. Why is Jelene Maxwell in jail if it's a hoax?

Speaker 16 I'd like to know.

Speaker 14 Well, and again, if the election was stolen in 2020, how many people have been arrested? Zero. Anyway,

Speaker 14 so again,

Speaker 14 what is Maureen Comey's firing?

Speaker 14 Again, start playing the kazoo.

Speaker 14 Do you think it was an accident that he fired her yesterday?

Speaker 16 No, I just think what's interesting is a firing of federal prosecutor and a tape gap. That reminds me of someone, Nixon.

Speaker 14 I feel like just MAGA has given us license to talk about our favorite conspiracy. Do you remember the Godfather?

Speaker 14 I don't think he was murdered.

Speaker 14 I think this is what happened you know how in godfather 2 uh the robert devall character visits that guy in in witness protection or imprisoned who's going to testify against michael corleon and robert duvall the concierge comes to him and says hey you know in ancient rome they used to kill themselves and then their families would be taken care of he basically says to them if you kill yourself we'll take care of your family i think something along the lines of uh all right if you want to kill yourself we'll figure out a way such that no one gets in the way.

Speaker 14 But something went on here. This is just two cameras, two guards, and through just a series of very, very unlikely events, he was able to do this.
This is, I mean, this really is the stuff of

Speaker 14 conspiracy theory. It's just sort of like you read about this, and there's no less than probably a dozen or two dozen people.

Speaker 14 If someone came to that person and said, oh, by the way, if somehow $10 million ends up in a Swiss banking account, this guy's going to end up dead.

Speaker 14 I think there's a lot of people who are on that island who would probably nod.

Speaker 14 So this is, and again, I come back to the same thing. First off, the Comey thing was another one of his attempts at distraction, hoping that the media would pick up on it.

Speaker 16 If I had a guess, he slept with someone underage and there's proof of it. Yeah,

Speaker 14 that's called rape.

Speaker 16 That's right, rape. Exactly.
That's what I guess.

Speaker 16 That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 16 I think that is.

Speaker 14 Well, that's what everyone's guess is.

Speaker 16 That's the assumption. That's assumption.

Speaker 14 It wasn't that he had mushroom chocolates on the island and watched the sunset. I mean, that was not.
This is, he is really worried here. And you think, well, maybe he's worried about his friends.

Speaker 14 He doesn't give a flying fuck about anyone else.

Speaker 16 What about a special counsel? Did you see Lauren Bobert's suggestion? Matt Gates.

Speaker 14 Yeah, hire a special counsel. But how special will that counsel be?

Speaker 16 I know Matt Gates was her suggestion. She's such a bubblehead, man.
She's such a bubblehead.

Speaker 14 I don't know what that.

Speaker 16 Yeah, I don't think you hire. Although he'd know how to find it.

Speaker 14 He'd know. Yeah, like appointing Matt Gates to the special counsel is like trying to defuse a bomb by strapping it to your ex-wife i mean that just

Speaker 14 i thought that was funny um this is okay

Speaker 14 you're not really trying to solve the problem here you're trying to you're trying to kill two birds with one stone

Speaker 16 just so bad oh my god can you imagine and of course he gets sucked up into it because of course it'll it'll start talking about his problems same problem similar problems wait we're gonna have a special counsel like a special counsel counsel who was accused and investigated.

Speaker 14 And I think he was cleared, to be fair, of the crime he'd be investigating.

Speaker 16 Who knows?

Speaker 16 What's the next thing? Just very quickly and we'll move on.

Speaker 14 Well, I know what the next thing is. Something fucking outrageous and stupid that we all go over here.
So we're not talking about Epstein.

Speaker 16 I don't think anyone's going over here.

Speaker 14 I know, but well, okay. But I was working out with my son yesterday and the Chiron and CNBC and CNN all talking about Chairman Powell.
He's not going anywhere.

Speaker 14 Nothing is different about Chairman Powell's job than it was 48 hours ago, except it's crowded out, more and more reporting about Epstein.

Speaker 16 Epstein's not going anywhere is what I meant. Epstein's not going anywhere until the files are released.
That is it.

Speaker 16 That's what you think.

Speaker 14 Do you think this is going to, there's no, there's no.

Speaker 16 He's not dying. I mean, the Fox News is, you know, interesting.
The other day, they were counting Fox News and it mentioned Epstein four times because Trump said something and Biden 52 times.

Speaker 16 It was crazy. They're trying very hard.

Speaker 16 A lot of conservative media is very nervous about what to do here because they love the conspiracy theory, but they don't love that it's linked to Trump so closely now.

Speaker 16 So it's going to be hard for them to figure out, although the Wall Street Journal certainly has been aggressive in covering it, but still not heavily, not as heavily as it should be.

Speaker 16 They sort of give it glancing attention. So it'll be hard for all these conservative media things, but I think it's going nowhere until they release the files.
And then that will take up all the time.

Speaker 16 And now Trump's home administration is Epstein. That's it.
That's all it is for until the midterms, I think. I don't think it's going away like his other, most of his stuff moves on.

Speaker 16 This is not moving on. But we'll see.
We'll see.

Speaker 16 And another news, Defense Department is going to start using Elon Musk's favorite chatbot, Grok, which is interesting because Elon's really attacking Trump.

Speaker 16 XAI announced this week that it secured a $200 million contract with DOD to develop and implement AI tools for the agency. Anthropic Google and OpenAI were awarded similar contracts.

Speaker 16 AXAI is also rolling out Grok for Government, a suite of products that can be customized for specific uses across science and healthcare and other sectors.

Speaker 16 And I suppose it can go into Hitler mode if it needs to. And that's not all.
The latest Grok update includes companions for super Grok subscribers, an anime girl, and a panda.

Speaker 16 They're already doing all sorts of problematic things. I'm not going into it.
What happens, we'll see when it gets into the government.

Speaker 16 I don't think they're capable of making a commercial product or product for government, but so far they haven't been able to. Your thoughts? Any quick thoughts?

Speaker 14 Well,

Speaker 14 initially, in order to try and quell concerns about AI and stave off any possible regulation, they all had literally all of them, whether it was Lama or Anthropic or ChatGPT, all had language

Speaker 14 that essentially said that they would never use their models for military warfare or nuclear industries. They have all

Speaker 14 recently changed that language or gotten rid of it because there's money here and big money. So all of this, I mean, all of them were like, this is dangerous.
We realize it's dangerous.

Speaker 14 We will never use it for military applications. And they're like, oh, there's a, there's a check here.
Get rid of that launch.

Speaker 16 I'm going to do the Michael Barga.

Speaker 14 So what you're saying is,

Speaker 16 Scott, that they're greedy fucks.

Speaker 14 Yeah.

Speaker 14 So what you're saying is, even though he claims to be a heterosexual, if you have a dreamy salt and pepper beard, he'd go there. He'd go there.
Anyways,

Speaker 14 poor Michael Beabron. The last thing anyone's going to do now is compliment us.

Speaker 16 Literally the last thing.

Speaker 16 Anyway, he is exquisite.

Speaker 14 No good deed goes unpunished, Michael.

Speaker 16 Exquisite, Michael. We think you're exquisite.

Speaker 14 But also, I personally, I really

Speaker 14 endorse and in favor,

Speaker 14 in favor of this intersection, which for some reason we have avoided between our nation's most innovative companies and our military-industrial complex.

Speaker 14 I think other nations are trying to figure out, I mean, one of the learnings we're going to take away, I think, from the war we were talking about, the war in Ukraine, is the following.

Speaker 14 That just stating you're going to increase your military budget by $100, $120 billion, that's again, drunk uncle practicing his karate in front of everybody thinking it's impressive. Karate.
Karate.

Speaker 14 The lesson you can take away from the war in Ukraine can come down to one word, asymmetric.

Speaker 14 And that is there have been $300 drones that have been taking out $3 million TU-144 tanks or whatever they're called. We should be massively investing in asymmetric warfare.

Speaker 14 Things like drones, things, AI, predictive technologies, because the reality is

Speaker 14 the kinetic... era is over.
And that is thinking if you have more tanks, you're automatically going to win the war. That used to be true.
Wars used to be a function of brute force.

Speaker 14 It's no longer the case. And I think companies like Andorelle,

Speaker 14 Palantir,

Speaker 14 which I have been critical of, the reality is

Speaker 14 at the end of the day, we should have our brightest working hand in glove and stop all the fucking

Speaker 14 bitch, stupid like walkouts at these companies saying we're not going to work with the defense industry.

Speaker 16 Well, they can do that. They can leave.
They can leave.

Speaker 14 What they want. And they should be.

Speaker 16 And quite fair.

Speaker 14 Oh, come on. We're going to walk out over lunch.
That'll show them.

Speaker 16 Well, no, no, they have to walk. That'll show it.
If they don't want to do it, they should leave. And they have everything.

Speaker 14 I love what you say. You don't like Chick-fil-A? Don't eat a Chick-fil-A.
But don't walk out over lunch and think that somehow that's going to make any difference. And

Speaker 14 a lot of these, I don't, I've said this a lot. I sound very, I don't know what the term is Republican here.

Speaker 14 I think a lot of Americans take for granted just how many people out there would like to kill us and take our shit away and that we need the most robust fighting force in history.

Speaker 14 And you invest in your opportunities, not your problems. The most successful organization in a modern world is the U.S.
military.

Speaker 14 So we should continue to invest in it, but we should continue to invest in it smartly. And I do think these companies can bring a lot of value to the Defense Department.

Speaker 16 The one thing I like about this, like everybody got some. Like, I think there should be a lot of competition with the defense.
They have an opportunity here not to have one.

Speaker 16 Like they have a problem with Starlink and with

Speaker 16 SpaceX, with the space stuff, putting up satellites. If you have all the companies here, that's great.
One thing that's a problem is that ChatGPT is taken.

Speaker 16 I don't know if you've seen the recent stats. Still, ChatGPT is huge.
The others are progressively smaller. Microsoft doesn't even show up and Grok doesn't show up at all.

Speaker 14 Yeah, it's running away with it.

Speaker 16 It's running away with it. That even though they're losing all kinds of researchers,

Speaker 16 that said, I think it's good to have competition in the sector. If we're going to do this,

Speaker 16 did you get the anime girl at all? I didn't. Nobody's using Grok.
No one's using it. Very few people are using Grok.
Anyway.

Speaker 14 Oh, really? Yeah.

Speaker 16 It's look at the numbers. It's like crazy

Speaker 16 how far down the chart they are. Anyway.
All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Andrew Cuomo taking on Zoran Mamdani again.

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Speaker 16 Scott, we're back with more news. Are you registered in New York? Oh, no, you're Florida, Florida.
Former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo will officially run as an individual.

Speaker 14 Just make sure the New York State Comptroller comptroller heard that. I'm a Florida resident.

Speaker 16 Yes, you are. Former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo will officially run as an independent in the NYC mayoral race after being defeated very handily by Zoran Mamdani in the Democratic primary.

Speaker 16 I mean, he beat him like a rug. Cuomo posted a campaign video on X, which has under 6,000 likes.

Speaker 16 It's really sad. The reply from Mamdani with a link to donate to his campaign has over 181,000 likes.
It was well done.

Speaker 16 The former governor plans to ask all candidates other than Mamdani to pledge to drop out of the race in mid-September if they aren't in the lead, including himself, I guess.

Speaker 16 And current mayor Eric Adams, who will also run as independent, said Cuomo asked him to drop out of the race, which he called the highest level of arrogance. I would agree with Eric Adams.

Speaker 16 I don't agree with him on anything. Meanwhile, Mamdani has been making the rounds, meeting with business leaders and visiting D.C.
to meet with Democratic leaders.

Speaker 16 He had a pretty cool reception from a lot of them because

Speaker 16 he just did. He's tried a little bit to assuage their worries.

Speaker 16 A lot of people are looking at Bill de Blasio's policies and Mamdani's, and Bill de Blasio is left of Momdani, which is interesting according to a lot of stuff I've read.

Speaker 16 But Cuomo, oh,

Speaker 16 is so non-vibrant. He looks like an old man.

Speaker 16 He looks weird.

Speaker 16 People are making memes out of

Speaker 16 him walking around with his face and stuff like that, which are very funny.

Speaker 16 And he's getting,

Speaker 16 this is, I know he's shook up his whole campaign, but I don't see him making any ground here.

Speaker 16 Any thoughts?

Speaker 14 Well, it reminds me of when in 2016, people said that only Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump could make each other viable.

Speaker 14 I feel as if Governor Cuomo, who I like more than most people, I think it's easy to be critical of him. I get it.

Speaker 14 But I actually think he's a decent man would be a decent elect, I think he'd be a good placeholder. I think he'd be competent.

Speaker 14 I would have voted probably for Cuomo. Some of Mom Dami, as I said this, I'm not a New York resident.
I also think that people totally freaking out about his international policy is

Speaker 14 he needs to make sure the subways run on time. I think some of his policies are absolutely asinine.

Speaker 14 But having said that, I, like you, I think I got swept up in this fever of young people taking charge and pushing back on the establishment. And he's

Speaker 14 a viable, I think it's going to be a rough summer for Mom Dame.

Speaker 14 He has done something very smart in the last week, and that is he is pivoting towards the center. He has agreed not to use or applaud the term globalize the infitada, which is deeply offensive.

Speaker 16 You said infitada.

Speaker 14 Intifada?

Speaker 16 Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 14 Only only Cuomo. and Eric Adams could make a guy who wrote a rap song

Speaker 14 praising the funders of Hamas a viable candidate. And also what this really is a lesson in

Speaker 14 and this kind of, and I'm sort of here for it, is young people pushing back. And also he put on a master class in how to run a campaign for a new age.
It is going to be a rough summer for him because

Speaker 14 I think these guys with their money and also I think New Yorkers are really going to start digging into some of these policies. And basically, you know,

Speaker 14 People are going to get smart when they start pushing back on him. They're going to start saying, okay, these quote-unquote state-sponsored grocery stores are nothing but state-sponsored breadlines.

Speaker 14 He's going to have a rush.

Speaker 16 But there's only going to be like three of them, Scott. That's like over.
Maybe so. They could take advantage.
There's only going to be like three or four.

Speaker 16 So it's fine to like try to get better.

Speaker 16 If he, if he, if he pivoted and said, you know, what I really want to do is get better food into these neighborhoods and let's figure out an interesting and good way to do it. And he could do that.

Speaker 16 He could pivot that in a second.

Speaker 14 And he should. He will.
He should.

Speaker 16 And he will. Second thing, a lot of the other stuff, he just has to be more explicit what he means by rent freezes.

Speaker 16 So I think he has an opportunity actually to clarify himself in a really good way and in a very powerful way.

Speaker 14 Well, if he's smart, he'll pivot to the middle. And he sort of does.

Speaker 16 It's not just the middle, clarify himself. Okay, here's what I want to do.
Let's.

Speaker 14 You mean back away from ridiculously fucking stupid positions?

Speaker 16 No, but he was thinking, but he wasn't specific. And when you start to actually hear the specifics, they're not quite as nutty as you think they are, as you think they are, which I did.

Speaker 14 Well, he's backpedaling. The rent freezes.
Rent freezes don't work.

Speaker 16 No, but there's a rent freeze on a certain number of things. Anyway, nonetheless, he has an opportunity to define himself, and he's got to do that.

Speaker 16 That's the key thing: he's got to define them, not let them do it, because they'll do it in this ham-handed way that makes him look like an idiot. Secondly, well, look,

Speaker 14 you think he's, you think, I'm just going to ask you a question. You think he's going to have no problem that he's going to run away with it?

Speaker 16 No, I think he's going to have, he's going to, he has an opportunity to keep the narrative going for himself, or they're going to do it for him.

Speaker 16 And so he needs, that's all I'm saying is, and it's an opportunity.

Speaker 16 And it's an opportunity to clarify. And so anything that seems weak, the things that bug you, that drive you crazy, he should start to clarify for those voters.

Speaker 16 Secondly, is an opportunity to reach out to voters of color, poor voters of color, and really go into those neighborhoods and start talking.

Speaker 16 That's where Cuomo is strong. He absolutely is.
So he can start doing that. The third thing is that the.
the rich people of New York have lost their fucking ever-loving minds about this.

Speaker 16 They, you know, calling him a mark. They, I'm like, calm the fuck down.
You've worked with all kinds, like the stuff they've tolerated on Trump. Give me, you, you have no credibility, you people.

Speaker 16 You're just no credit. You look like rich people running for the hills.
And that is, that to me has astonished me. Like

Speaker 16 Ken Langone, like just all of them, like calm down. Like you might have to work with this guy.
So let's figure out a way to work with him. Right.
Rather than like kneecap him almost constantly.

Speaker 16 I don't know if he's going to run away with it. I can tell you if Cuomo doesn't do something, because he really looks, go look at his physical, he used to be a big, vibrant man.

Speaker 16 He's, it looks like he's lost weight. I don't know how, but he looks like he's lost a substantive amount of weight.
He looks non-vibrant. He looks old.

Speaker 16 He looks very awkward in regular settings with people. I think he's like he's all the energy that Cuomo did bring to the table, and he absolutely did, he's lost.
And so is Adams the other choice?

Speaker 16 I think, I think he and Adams are going to eat each other up and Mom Donnie's going to win. That's, I don't see how he can't win unless he makes a big, giant mistake.

Speaker 16 And if he clarifies himself and becomes more palatable to more people, and it doesn't have to be the rich people because they're never going to like him, I think he's got a great chance.

Speaker 14 I think, like, Cuomo is a flawed candidate. I think for 67, I think he looks great.
I think he looks really robust. There's a lot of flaws there.

Speaker 14 Those flaws are dwarfed by a guy who cut a backroom deal with an unpopular president to let ICE into his

Speaker 16 city.

Speaker 14 Adams, the only prediction I'm willing to make here is that it's not going to be Eric Adams.

Speaker 14 So, but, and also, to a certain extent,

Speaker 14 you know, everyone's focusing on

Speaker 14 the moment that Momdami, in my opinion, won, at least the primary, was when on the debate stage, they asked them what is the first place you would visit.

Speaker 14 And they all got out their virtue signaling and self-importance and said, well, I'd go to Israel. Dude, you're the

Speaker 14 make sure the trash is picked up. And he said, and he, this is a, this was the moment for him.
He said, I go to Brooklyn. I go to Harmland, Harlem.
I'm about improving the city.

Speaker 14 And these, these folks in operational roles, you know, when you're the governor of South Dakota,

Speaker 14 do you really need to go to Israel? Yeah. And you're basically saying, I'm going to take taxpayer money.
And instead of doing my fucking job, I'm going to pretend I'm bigger.

Speaker 14 I'm going to pretend that I should be president. No one gives a shit what you think about

Speaker 14 the war in Ukraine or Gaza. You're here to run the city and make sure we have good schools, that people are safe.

Speaker 14 And instead,

Speaker 14 and he ran right through that.

Speaker 4 That was brilliant on his part.

Speaker 14 And it also more than just...

Speaker 16 That's why I think he's going to do a good job here. But go ahead.

Speaker 14 Well, and what it says is it might be a turning point.

Speaker 14 The most exciting thing about his win, and I would not have voted for him, but the most exciting thing about his win was within seven days of him winning, 4,000 young Democrats filled out paperwork to run for office across the nation.

Speaker 14 And that's what we need. We need more young people who think, if this guy can do it, so can I.
I am so sick of the old. pulling the future forward on my credit card.
I have had it.

Speaker 14 And so I'm like we've both said, we're a little bit caught up in this fever and what it says about democratic politics.

Speaker 14 And they should absolutely take some notes from his playbook around how he weaponized new media and also focused on affordability and represents, you know, a new generation. Anyways, TED Talk over.

Speaker 16 Yeah, let me let me say one final thing. One of the things that drives me crazy is there was an Arizona race where an influencer didn't win, thought that you might.
She got pretty far against

Speaker 16 an equally progressive candidate who was taking over her father's seat. And they're like, it's a sign

Speaker 16 of trouble for Mondami. No, it isn't.
If you're genuine in your area, if you're Abby Spanberger and you want to be more conservative and centrist in Virginia, work for Virginia, that'll work.

Speaker 16 If you're in Ohio and you're more centrist, that'll work. If you're AOC and you're who you are, that'll work.
What you have to be is genuine and interested in where you are.

Speaker 16 It doesn't speak to the bigger Democratic Party. That said, they will use, if he wins, the Republicans will try to make Mandani into a demon.
I think it's going to be very hard to do so.

Speaker 16 They tried really hard to do that with Nancy Pelosi. It didn't work.
It worked for Hillary Clinton.

Speaker 16 He is so charming, it'll be very hard to demonize him. And I think making these people more than they are is probably a bad idea.
Everyone should be who they are in the area they're in.

Speaker 16 That's my only thought.

Speaker 14 Have you interviewed him?

Speaker 16 I'm going to. I'm going to.

Speaker 14 Yeah, I just, I was saying, Kara Swisher and this guy are like,

Speaker 14 I think that'll be. Yeah.

Speaker 14 He should do it. It totally fits.

Speaker 16 I was deciding, should I interview Cuomo? I was talking about this with Amanda.

Speaker 14 Oh, yeah. I would.

Speaker 14 It'd be an interesting interview. Yes, it would be.
You're getting your ass handed to you. What is your thought here? What are your plans?

Speaker 14 What's your plan? Yeah.

Speaker 14 You come across as tired and that you're the past. How are you going to combat it?

Speaker 16 And your social media is cringe. Do you need some help? Anyway, blink your eyes three times if you do.

Speaker 14 I think the whole world is, well, not the whole world, but those of us who are who are

Speaker 14 the side piece of Michael Barbero are hoping that you interview both, especially Momdami, but also Cuomo. I'd love to see you interview both of them.

Speaker 16 I'm going to ask him. I'm going to ask him.

Speaker 16 Anyway, the House has advanced three crypto bills. We're moving on.

Speaker 16 And a defense measure after setting a record for the longest vote in the history of the chamber, GOB holdouts, agreed after being promised a future vote to ban the Federal Reserve from mission

Speaker 16 digital currencies. The Genius Act, which would would regulate stablecoins, is on track to hit Trump's desk this week and could mark Congress's first ever major crypto legislation.

Speaker 16 We'll see. Bitcoin is currently trading at $118,000 after hitting a high of $120,000 at the start of the week.

Speaker 16 Very quickly on crypto, and also, I just want to note, they're also voting to cut funding for NPR and PBS, which is heinous on their part.

Speaker 16 They managed to get that through so far in this rescissions package. Thoughts Thoughts on either of those things?

Speaker 14 Well, look, PBS, NPR, I grew up with them. I think they do enormous service.
And there's just certain people who won't get straight down the middle news anymore with these funding cuts.

Speaker 14 I am a little bit, I have a little bit of a Republican twinge on this and that is their public funding has become such a political football that I wonder if at some point they're better off without the public funding and just leaning on listeners such as myself who get register enormous value to support it.

Speaker 14 It just feels like it's been such a political football for so long.

Speaker 16 That means people in rural areas will never have any news that is not tinged.

Speaker 16 I think, look,

Speaker 14 that's a fair point. And I touched on that at the beginning of my comments.

Speaker 16 It's going to be 1.1 billion, couple percent. It'll hurt them, though.

Speaker 14 I would love to see an NPR and a PBS be really well funded by private individuals such that the Republicans could stop using it as a punching bag at every human.

Speaker 16 For years. Yes, that's correct.

Speaker 14 So let me commit. I'm going to give, based on what you said, I'm going to give some money to NPR and PBS and public radio because I think they do an amazing job.
And corporation badges.

Speaker 16 Public broadcasting is what you want to give to.

Speaker 14 Go ahead. Corporation of

Speaker 14 CPB.

Speaker 14 But here's what was interesting is a survey came out and they asked people what media entities are the most trusted for trying to be moderate.

Speaker 14 And what was interesting is the two that came up as the most trustworthy in the middle were formerly companies formerly known as having a conservative and or progressive bent.

Speaker 14 And the two were the Wall Street Journal and

Speaker 14 I think it was PBS.

Speaker 14 Was it PBS or NPR? I think it was PBS. But what's interesting is that quality journalism does break through, even if you have a political bent or a reputation for political bent.

Speaker 14 Because the Wall Street Journal was always known as conservative, but they said they limited their conservative viewpoint to the the opinion section. They did.
They do. And I worked there.

Speaker 16 You know, I worked there.

Speaker 14 I know you did.

Speaker 16 Amazing journalists.

Speaker 14 It's a testament, quite frankly, you got to give it to Rupert Murdoch.

Speaker 16 I agree.

Speaker 14 He left it. He has done an amazing job stewarding that publication.
Yes. And then

Speaker 14 in our business,

Speaker 14 I've said for a long time, I think we should every time we do a podcast send a royalty check to Joe Rogan, who blew the medium open.

Speaker 14 NPR's podcasts, they're the original gangsters saying that audio quality, it matters. Production quality, they do such a good job.
When you listen to their stuff, it is so tight and so well produced.

Speaker 14 And I'm a fan. I'm going to.
Corporation for Public Broadcasting.

Speaker 16 I think one of the things that you have to note is that they have, what drives me crazy is this idea that Elmo is woke. Or they're just saying be nice.
They're not like, they do.

Speaker 16 They go on and on, these right-wingers. And remember, you know, Tinky Winky was gay or whatever.

Speaker 16 And that, because he had a purse.

Speaker 16 And the thing that drives me crazy is the same thing with Superman. Like, they're like, Superman's woke.
And then it's, of course, it's the most successful movie of this summer.

Speaker 16 Secondly, if you go back to old Superman things and you read it out loud, they would call that woke.

Speaker 16 It's like everyone, Superman says, this is from the 40s, be nice to everyone, regardless of their religion or their race. This has been a Superman thing forever.

Speaker 16 It's just these people using these iconic things like Elmo and Superman

Speaker 16 as a cudgel is

Speaker 16 really so lame. They're so lame.
Be nice is a real, is not a woke thing. It's a nice thing to teach kids.
And I love everything that NPR and PBS does.

Speaker 16 And please watch Ken Burns' American Revolution coming up. And then set, and we'll send you a tote bag if you give me $25.

Speaker 14 I don't know. Elmo, folks, Elmo is conservative.
If you listen, actually listen to Elmo, he talks like a dictator or a LinkedIn influencer on mushrooms.

Speaker 16 All right, crypto, really quick, two seconds, and then we'll get to your point.

Speaker 14 I think the space needs regulation. There's just no getting around it.
By the way, I bought my first, I'm for the first time and I'm a coiner.

Speaker 14 I bought, I bought bought indirectly through a Bitcoin treasury company. I bought Bitcoin.

Speaker 16 Finally.

Speaker 14 Just for diversification, and I'm just so sick of missing out on all this. What they've done, Bitcoin is just, it's a remarkable phenomenon.
There's no getting around it.

Speaker 14 And I don't understand the nuances of the regulation, but this category needed some sort of clarity around

Speaker 14 regulation.

Speaker 14 The Genius Act, The Genius Act sets rules for stable coin users, such as, I think it requires one-to-one backing with treasuries, monthly reports, redemption rights, anti-money laundering compliance.

Speaker 14 Those are good things. That'll be good for the space.
Many of them already do this. I think Circle and Paxas already do this.

Speaker 14 And it will bring some clarity to the unregulated players. Then there's something actually called the Clarity Act.
And it formalizes the regulating bodies, which I think is a good idea.

Speaker 14 Bitcoin and Ethereum will go to the CFDC or ICO tokens will go to the SEC.

Speaker 14 Stable coins will have shared oversight.

Speaker 14 And then there's the Anti-CBDC Act. This is the one I really don't understand.
And

Speaker 14 as far as I can tell, that act is to make sure that the Federal Reserve cannot

Speaker 14 create a digital currency that they're worried that threatens the dollar's reserve currency status.

Speaker 14 And they frame it as defense of privacy, preventing the government from spying on how you spend money. But it's essentially a play towards.

Speaker 14 My understanding is it's a nod towards the anti-surveillance crowd, but it's also the government probably doesn't want, wants to ensure that the dollar's reserve currency is not threatened. So

Speaker 14 to their credit, I think they're trying to bring some clarity to the space such that it maintains its momentum. Yeah.

Speaker 16 David Sachs got what he wanted in this one. He shepherded this one through.
Anyway, we'll see where it goes. And we should be watching that.
Absolutely, what's happening there.

Speaker 16 It's interesting that you invested. All right.
One more quick break. We'll We'll be back for predictions.

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Speaker 16 Okay, Scott, before you get to Purdue's, I just want to say I had been approached by so many people about your incredibly touching tribute to your dad.

Speaker 16 And I just want to say, again, it was really wonderful. And I think our listeners really, really, I've been hugged more this week than ever before.

Speaker 16 People without without asking, people are like, I need to hug you. I was like, okay,

Speaker 16 on your behalf.

Speaker 16 So I just think you really, one of the strengths that you have is you show your emotions. And it's really important to a lot of not just men, but women seeing you do that.
I have to say.

Speaker 16 And so it's been unusual this week to get so many responses.

Speaker 14 So there you have it. Thanks for sharing that.

Speaker 16 I predict you're going to get even more woke. You know,

Speaker 14 I love what you describe me as a San Francisco lesbian. By the way, I am in San Francisco.

Speaker 16 What are you doing? You're in San Francisco. What are you doing there? I'm coming there next week.

Speaker 14 What are you doing? Where are you?

Speaker 16 I know that hotel. What hotel are you in?

Speaker 14 I'm at the Four Seasons. I'm

Speaker 14 visiting my sister. I'm going to have lunch with her today.

Speaker 16 And I'm also going to say hi to your sister. She's at the corner.

Speaker 14 I will.

Speaker 16 She's fantastic.

Speaker 16 Yeah.

Speaker 14 So I was, as you know, I'm in Colorado. So I took the opportunity to come out and

Speaker 14 just

Speaker 14 have lunch with my sister.

Speaker 16 Ah, lovely. Anyway, let's hear your prediction then.
Besides the fact that you, me, and Michael will be in a cuddle puddle soon.

Speaker 14 Hello. Hello.
Hello.

Speaker 16 Smack her ass, Michael.

Speaker 14 Smack her ass like

Speaker 14 she keeps correcting me.

Speaker 14 Poor Michael.

Speaker 16 God, Michael.

Speaker 14 What's his relationship? Is he married? What's his marriage? He's married.

Speaker 14 He's married?

Speaker 14 The three of us. The three of us will have a couple spicy margaritas and explorer.
How serious is that relationship?

Speaker 16 Um,

Speaker 14 uh,

Speaker 14 we're gonna have a sexy tape and then we're gonna send it to Meredith.

Speaker 16 Uh, his boss.

Speaker 14 He'd probably get a raise at the New York Times.

Speaker 14 Come on, that's a good one. If Camomile Thiel tried to explain the Fed rate hike, that's the daily.
I love that.

Speaker 14 Oh, I'm sorry. My prediction.

Speaker 16 You know, I asked him to be a co-host during Scott Free August. I hope that's it.

Speaker 14 And what did he say?

Speaker 16 He'd be perfect. He wants to do it.
He's got to ask the Times for permission.

Speaker 14 Meredith, if you can't do it, you're getting in the way of our our thrupple, which is discriminatory. And I mean,

Speaker 14 Meredith, stop giving in to your heteronormative, patriarchal management views around what daily the pod your podcast hosts should do.

Speaker 16 That's so funny.

Speaker 16 Okay,

Speaker 14 love Meredith. Anyway, love Meredith.

Speaker 14 Okay, so my prediction is pretty straightforward. Before this podcast even airs tomorrow, there's going to be another incendiary look over here, batshit crazy, hollow, threat,

Speaker 14 promise.

Speaker 14 I'm raising, I'm putting a 200% tariff on Mayana Marie's

Speaker 14 rare earth minerals.

Speaker 14 I am firing. I have decided I'm going to imprison Alec Baldwin.
And

Speaker 14 there's going to be something.

Speaker 16 Aaron 51. He should release the files on Air 5.
No.

Speaker 16 That would work.

Speaker 14 This is my prediction.

Speaker 16 We need a conspiracy with a conspiracy.

Speaker 16 He's not focused.

Speaker 14 He's not doing anything.

Speaker 14 The majority of his time right now and efforts are not being spent on increasing the material or psychological well-being of Americans. No, they're not.
It's on.

Speaker 14 They're in a room with AI going, what can he do or announce tomorrow? It doesn't matter if it's stupid.

Speaker 14 Doesn't matter if he has any, any intention of actually following through that will keep the news off of one word, Epstein.

Speaker 14 Every day for the next seven days, Kara, and we should track this and read them out.

Speaker 16 Okay.

Speaker 14 All right. There's going to be something stupid, incendiary, which has absolutely no chance of ever becoming reality in an attempt.
And the media will fall for it.

Speaker 14 They'll go, Jesus Christ, what is he thinking? And they'll start talking about that rather than what he doesn't want everyone to talk about.

Speaker 14 And that is he is freaked out for some reason about the release of the Epstein file.

Speaker 16 He thinks it's going to go away. He does.
Internally, they're saying they think it's going to go away. I don't think it is.
Sorry, Trump. You better address it.
That's all he's got to do.

Speaker 16 It's got to address it. Do you have any predictions?

Speaker 16 I he is going to probably have to release these things, and then we'll have to worry about the fraud involved in it.

Speaker 16 I think he has to release them. I don't think he has a choice here.
I don't think he can.

Speaker 16 He is very good at pushing things off. I think he absolutely is going to have to release these things.
And I don't think it's going to be like his taxes or anything else.

Speaker 16 He's not getting away with this one. I think Elon is correct about that.
It's not going to work this time. Anyway, we want to hear from you.

Speaker 16 Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind. Go to nymag.com/slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.

Speaker 16 Elsewhere in the CARE and Scott universe, this week on ProfG Conversation, Scott spoke with Greg Lukianoff, a free speech advocate, First Amendment attorney, and president of FHIR, the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression.

Speaker 16 Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 19 Well, in terms of First Amendment law, anonymous speech is protected, but I don't think that's efficient enough of an answer.

Speaker 19 And I think I tend to think of the justification for anonymity as like a seesaw.

Speaker 19 That especially if we lived in a free and enlightened society in which people welcomed dissent and welcomed disagreement, and there was no imaginable idea that you'd be punished for it, then the justification for anonymity would kind of ring hollow to people.

Speaker 16 Yeah, I like that. You talk about that issue a lot, Scott.

Speaker 14 It's an important one.

Speaker 16 Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Speaker 14 Today's show is produced by Lara Neyman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver.

Speaker 35 Ernie Intertod engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Miasidera, and Dan Shalan.
Nishak Kura is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.

Speaker 14 Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Speaker 35 You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/slash pod.

Speaker 14 We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

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Epstein Saga Continues, Trump Launches Distractions, and Cuomo Relaunches Campaign

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