Mamdani's Victory, Iran Nuclear Damage Dispute, and Fed Chair Succession

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Speaker 26 I don't know, Scott. I'm going to just film it and we're going to have to see.
There might be a colonic that might happen.

Speaker 26 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher, and I have decamped to Scott's apartment in New York again. Here I am.

Speaker 29 Yeah, by the way, I don't know if you noticed, but I've changed the wireless passcode to please leave soon.

Speaker 26 Not till you move back, and I may still stay with you when you move back.

Speaker 34 Yeah, Kara asked me yesterday where she should put her dirty laundry, and I said in her car on the way home.

Speaker 37 Kara, welcome. You're welcome.

Speaker 38 Just hands off the edibles, my granola, and my curate and chewables.

Speaker 40 Other than that, everything's over.

Speaker 26 I am going to use all of them. We're doing some filming here.
It's going to be, I'm not going to tell us for what, for the secret.

Speaker 40 Oh, great.

Speaker 41 I'm getting a location fee, ISC.

Speaker 26 Yes, exactly. I'm going to a rave with Louie tonight.

Speaker 43 That has got to be, you just brought the lame factor of that rave way up.

Speaker 26 I'm excited. Dancing.

Speaker 46 I'm sure you're excited.

Speaker 38 I love it. You and Louie are going to a rave?

Speaker 26 Yeah, we're going to a rave. It's a health rave, the longevity rave.

Speaker 32 We're very excited.

Speaker 28 Okay, so first off, what you're saying is it's not a rave.

Speaker 47 It's something not that cool that's decided to call itself a rave.

Speaker 26 Cool? No, no, it's by the cool people who do the raves. The healthy day breaks.

Speaker 32 What does that mean?

Speaker 26 I don't know, Scott. I'm going to just film it and we're going to have to see.

Speaker 48 Mushrooms and get a colonic?

Speaker 31 What does that mean?

Speaker 32 No drugs.

Speaker 26 No drugs. There might be a colonic that might happen.
There's ice baths. I don't know.
Scott, I'm trying to live in the moment like you tell me to.

Speaker 50 You're trying to be a good mom.

Speaker 26 Not just that. Louis' excited.
He's very excited. He's excited about a lot of things, including the mayoral race here in New York.

Speaker 26 But we've got a lot to get to today, including what Zoran Mamdani's mayoral primary win means for Democrats. And President Trump wants to replace Fed Chair Jerome Power early.
Good luck with that.

Speaker 26 Also, all kinds of things are going on with Trump. He's real mad at the press for not doing his propaganda.
Anyway, we'll also talk about who's in the running for that,

Speaker 26 but other things.

Speaker 51 So, where are you?

Speaker 39 London?

Speaker 26 You're in London, right? Yeah, I'm in London.

Speaker 38 Yeah.

Speaker 37 I have a really nice life.

Speaker 52 I'm really blessed.

Speaker 26 You do accept what, where are you not now, right now, where you want to be?

Speaker 50 Where I want to be? In Venice.

Speaker 26 You want to be in Venice.

Speaker 32 You still want to.

Speaker 53 Did you see like

Speaker 26 it's such a bad look. Even though I like a wedding, I like a big, ridiculous wedding, but I got to tell you, it's like, oh, come on.
Although Kim Kardashian was wearing

Speaker 26 a band across her boobs, which I kind of liked kind of stuff.

Speaker 32 I didn't see that.

Speaker 29 All of a sudden, I'm much more interested.

Speaker 26 Oprah is there already and stuff like that. Yeah.
I wish you went. I wish I'm so sorry that I prevented you.

Speaker 32 I think I had a shot.

Speaker 57 I was with some guys.

Speaker 58 I think if I pushed for it, I could have done it.

Speaker 26 I think one of those guys wrote me and said, I'm one of the guys that's going to be.

Speaker 32 Oh, really?

Speaker 26 Yeah. Yeah.
He's like, I'm like pictures quietly. Just send them to us.

Speaker 27 That's all. No, this is, this is a flex.

Speaker 60 Those guys, generally speaking, want to be my friend because they think they're going to win me over.

Speaker 62 And occasionally they'll reach out to a third party and say, oh, I wouldn't mind grabbing drinks with Scott.

Speaker 50 And I'm like, fuck no.

Speaker 26 Yeah. They all go through me.
Have you ever noticed that? Everyone wants to meet Scott.

Speaker 65 But it's so, they all think that everyone's dying to like have dinner or drinks.

Speaker 66 I can't imagine a more boring group of people to hang out with.

Speaker 67 Bezos, yes, because he's in his midlife crisis

Speaker 41 and has, you know, a hot woman who must have just be magnetic in terms of her personality.

Speaker 71 But the other tech executives that like reach out to you and say, I'd like to get a group together to talk about technology.

Speaker 1 My vision for technology.

Speaker 26 I'm like, oh man. They used to do that a lot back in the day.
They'd have dinners and there were always really good restaurants.

Speaker 38 So you were like, I have to manscape with a weed whacker.

Speaker 32 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 26 And you know what? The good thing about you not going to that wedding is this is what I imagine happening. You go to the wedding and Lauren falls in love with you.

Speaker 31 It could happen.

Speaker 60 I think it'd be much more interesting if he fell in love with me.

Speaker 50 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 31 Yeah. I think that would, that's.

Speaker 26 Man, him up.

Speaker 60 We take our honeymoon in Capri and we're spotted rubbing lotion on each other.

Speaker 32 Oh, wow.

Speaker 31 Why does that make me happy?

Speaker 37 Why does that make me happy?

Speaker 26 All right. All right.
We have to get to things. All right.
We have to get to real things. First of all, President Trump is doubling down on his claim that the U.S.
obliterated Iran's nuclear program.

Speaker 26 That's in spite of leaked intelligence reports saying the strikes only set Iran back by a few months. Now, these are early intelligence reports, let's be fair.

Speaker 26 And, you know, we definitely just, I don't know why he's not happy with we did a lot of damage and he did something bold, but he's not. He's railing against the New York Times.

Speaker 26 He's railing against CNN quite a bit,

Speaker 26 including its reporter, Natasha, I think it's Bertrand. He got testy when an NBC reporter asked about the report during a NATO press conference yesterday.
But let's listen.

Speaker 72 We're talking about something that took place three days ago. I understand.
That's a good question. The report was done.

Speaker 72 Three days ago. Wait a minute.

Speaker 26 Yes.

Speaker 72 They didn't see it. All they can do is take a guess.

Speaker 72 Now, if you take a look at the pictures, if you take a look how it's all blackened, you know, the fire in brimstone is all underground because it's granite and it's all underground. You don't show it.

Speaker 72 But even there, with all of that being said, the whole area for 75 yards around, the hole where it hit is black with fire.

Speaker 26 blackened blackened anyway then he had a fired up pig says your your drunkle step in to back him up let's play that

Speaker 73 we've all seen plenty of leakers and what do leakers do they have agendas and what do they do do they share the whole information or just the part that they want to introduce and when they introduce that preliminary a preliminary report that's deemed to be low a low assessment you know what a low assessment means low confidence in the data in that report And why is there low confidence?

Speaker 73 Because all of the evidence of what was just bombed by 12 30,000-pound bombs is buried under a mountain, devastated and obliterated.

Speaker 74 So if you want to make an assessment of what happened at Ford, you better get a big shovel and go really deep because Iran's nuclear program is obliterated.

Speaker 26 It's not clear if it's obliterated. Anyway, Haggs has said the FBI is investigating the leak.

Speaker 26 The CIA director John Ratcliffe is now claiming there's credible evidence that Iran's nuclear program was severely damaged.

Speaker 26 Trump is also saying that U.S.-Iran talks will happen next week, but doesn't think a formal deal is necessary after the strikes.

Speaker 26 Today, again, Pete Hegseth, who is just really so unqualified every time he gets up,

Speaker 26 was saying that we should celebrate pilots. I mean, we do.
I go to Top Gun, Pete. I love Top Gun.
I love when they hit the spot. And I love it.

Speaker 26 And he also was saying that the press should go along with propaganda because daddy needs it. It's very strange.
All they were doing was reporting on things.

Speaker 26 And before we move on and before, I want to get your thoughts on this. I need you also to weigh on on this.

Speaker 26 At the NATO summit, Trump was asked about his exflablator and rant about Iran and Israel the other day, and NATO's Secretary General also had some thoughts. This is the daddy reference.
Let's listen.

Speaker 72 You know, they fight like hell. You can't stop them.
Let them fight for about two, three minutes. Then it's easy to stop them.

Speaker 54 And then daddy has to sometimes do strong language.

Speaker 72 Strong language. Every once in a while, you have to use a certain word.

Speaker 26 So daddy has to use some strong. Anyway, Scott, I'm going to call you Daddy from now on.
Thoughts on all of this? On Pete, on Trump, why he's so insistent about this?

Speaker 26 And sort of losing ground for some reason, even though he was successful.

Speaker 29 Well, a giant hole that's on fire that just, I think that's a pretty decent description of how I imagine my honeymoon with Jeff Bezos.

Speaker 32 Ooh, that's bad.

Speaker 26 If you're thinking of that, you can't get out of your head. Daddy, speaking of daddy.

Speaker 63 I just think it'd be worth the photos. I think that would be.

Speaker 47 You want to talk about something that would make news.

Speaker 31 Seriously.

Speaker 27 And not only that, it'd be really good for

Speaker 44 I wonder if I wonder if we lose IBM as a sponsor.

Speaker 26 We get Amazon. We get Blue Orange.

Speaker 43 Okay.

Speaker 31 So first off, perception around foreign policy sometimes is more important than actual kinetic power.

Speaker 29 And the reason we choose a civilian to head the Defense Department is they're supposed to make decisions to allocate resources correctly and ensure that our fighting machine doesn't get become generals who just consistently roam the earth.

Speaker 71 And there's a reason we usually pick a civilian to be the Secretary of Defense.

Speaker 61 And in an operation like this,

Speaker 52 when you're up there saying,

Speaker 65 no, no, it was great.

Speaker 83 You lose all fucking credibility.

Speaker 43 And what they should have is they should have someone up there with broad shoulders,

Speaker 38 you know, a general, a man or a woman who has actually spent their life.

Speaker 62 demonstrating character and excellence from the most competent organization in history, the U.S.

Speaker 43 military, in a very sober way,

Speaker 40 describing the operation.

Speaker 61 And then when they say, and then when someone says there's reports that it's not as effective as it could have been, to say, well, we don't know.

Speaker 38 We won't know.

Speaker 33 Our preliminary reports are the following.

Speaker 26 Yeah, the general did try to do that, General Kane.

Speaker 27 They shoved him out of the way because they're also

Speaker 29 anxious to say, check out my prosthetic penis.

Speaker 85 I mean, these guys should be in the background.

Speaker 65 The president should have announced the attack and then let the pros, the people who actually executed this operation and who have a reputation for not lying and exaggerating.

Speaker 65 And Secretary Heggseth should be nowhere near a mic around this.

Speaker 42 This is not his job. They should have generals.

Speaker 26 Is it ruining the thing? Because, you know, it's a successful thing to set them back by months. It's a successful thing to set them back by a year and to set them back.

Speaker 26 You know, there's reports the uranium was moved. It would be really nice to know.
And trust me, I bet our allies will have a lot of intelligence on this.

Speaker 26 And that's who the intelligence we're going to have to rely on is not ours, which is astonishing. And of course, they've moved Tulsi Gabbard out of the way because she's saying, maybe not.

Speaker 26 Like she's, she's caused, you know, a lot of problems because she's questioning the intelligence.

Speaker 26 But to not rely on our own intelligence and to insult it seems, it seems like a waste.

Speaker 43 It just weakens us.

Speaker 26 It also is a waste. Couldn't he just be successful instead of being angry at like CNN and the New York Times?

Speaker 29 Look, the victory here is that the president did show leadership.

Speaker 26 Absolutely.

Speaker 29 The president, who has a lot of critics within his own party about foreign interventions, took this action. That demonstrates leadership.

Speaker 30 It demonstrates strength.

Speaker 61 We are the only nation in the world that has these

Speaker 62 sci-fi-like B-2 bombers that we can fly from fucking Missouri to anywhere in the world to drop

Speaker 38 an ordinance that no one else has.

Speaker 41 And is it effective?

Speaker 43 Yeah, it was effective when anyone looked up or we saw photos of these B-2 bombers rolling in.

Speaker 30 In addition, it also demonstrates that we support Israel.

Speaker 35 It also demonstrates that our memory is long and our reach is far.

Speaker 31 All of those things are good for America.

Speaker 43 But to get up there and start exaggerating and with no real credible evidence.

Speaker 26 And then attacking the press for doing its job, which is and not being a propaganda or it just reeks of weakness.

Speaker 41 It's like, okay, let's figure out a way.

Speaker 52 I do think Trump has actually, in many instances, good instincts.

Speaker 80 And then he goes about it and he decides to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Speaker 34 And that's what they're doing here.

Speaker 37 If a general had just gotten up there and said, we won't know for a while what the true effectiveness of this was.

Speaker 46 He did.

Speaker 26 He did. They just stepped all over him.
He did. Kane did that.
So did, by the way, J.D. Vance, right? Like

Speaker 26 they were doing the right things at the beginning, except for Trump. They just don't know what he's going to do.
He started cursing. He started making messes.

Speaker 26 And then, because he's so obsessed with the media, and especially media he calls losers is the ones he talks about all the time.

Speaker 26 It's sort of like the guy who broke up with you who can't stop talking about you.

Speaker 26 If they're such losers, Donald, stop talking about them. If it doesn't matter, stop talking about them.
But it clearly does to him. What's interesting, though, to me is, let me read this.

Speaker 26 He calls them, he called the New York Times and CNN bad and sick people.

Speaker 26 And of course, CNN is backing the reporters. So is the New York Times.
But this is something I think I told you, the New York Times is pushing back hard now.

Speaker 26 And I was told by someone there that that's what they're going to do now. They're sick of saying we stand by our reporting.
This is what they wrote, which I was really, it was very pointed.

Speaker 26 Trump called this fake news, but he and his entire national security team subsequently confirmed that the Defense Intelligence Agency did in fact produce a preliminary assessment described in the report by the Times and others.

Speaker 26 So their statement was was fake, not the Times reporting. I think this just the press

Speaker 26 has had it with this nonsense.

Speaker 26 I'm glad. I'm glad they said it that way.
I'm glad they.

Speaker 48 I think that what we'd call more progressive media that spends the money to do fact-checking, and I think the Democratic Party need to become the organizations and not fucking around.

Speaker 26 Yeah. We're not fucking around.

Speaker 41 And to say, you know, as is often the case, when the, you know, when the data is true, they go to attacking the institution and not the reporting or the data.

Speaker 33 And this is nothing but additional evidence that, in fact, our reporting is entirely accurate.

Speaker 82 I mean, they should just start,

Speaker 42 I'm down for this.

Speaker 43 And I think AG, is that his name?

Speaker 83 Should start hitting back and saying, as is the pattern here.

Speaker 26 Yeah, that statement

Speaker 26 was not an AG-like thing, which I'm kind of glad. He's finally

Speaker 26 not just sticking up for his reporters.

Speaker 84 But in general, just say history will show that there's a pattern that

Speaker 35 the more serious and personal the attacks are, the more accurate the reporting ends up being.

Speaker 26 They did that around the Elon stuff too. Their reporter was allowed to tweet this is nonsense, like, especially when they called her a fat liar and all this other stuff.

Speaker 37 So, anyway, yeah. So, I don't,

Speaker 38 um, you know, that when

Speaker 88 Elon Musk went about saying, well, you mean the organization that got a Pulitzer for describing Russia gate?

Speaker 61 Yeah, the one that also got 141 other Pulitzer.

Speaker 32 Yes, I know.

Speaker 42 So, I, I, I fully embrace this.

Speaker 31 I am sick of Democrats Democrats and progressive media saying, we're going to take the high road.

Speaker 44 No, fuck that.

Speaker 26 I like a low road myself. We like a low road.

Speaker 39 We like a low road.

Speaker 66 We're low roaders. The low road.

Speaker 26 Since you're the marketing aspirator, from a marketing point of view, what would you do here if you were Trump? You already outlined it. Be quiet.
Let the general get up and say it.

Speaker 26 And let victory just show itself because people,

Speaker 26 well, Americans don't support this, which is interesting. Polling doesn't,

Speaker 26 but let the results speak for themselves, right? Correct? That's what you're saying.

Speaker 34 The most impressive people in boards and the most impressive leaders in a corporate sense are very measured and thoughtful and are the first to say, I can't take credit for that or I don't know.

Speaker 42 I think, again,

Speaker 78 was it General Kane?

Speaker 50 General Kane.

Speaker 64 You know, these people,

Speaker 52 these people deal with life and death and the implementation of lethal force.

Speaker 48 And so when they're asked questions, they take them very seriously and they want a reputation for truth because they know that other people are willing to put their own sons and daughters in harm's way based on that they'll get truth back.

Speaker 29 And in a situation like this, Secretary Hex has should be nowhere near a microphone. He should be Sophia Koppel at the Oscars and that is chained to her desk at home.

Speaker 49 I don't know where I got that reference.

Speaker 76 Anyways.

Speaker 26 Well, he's going to keep him now because he's Mr. Defensive, even if he looks ridiculous.
He's making Trump look ridiculous.

Speaker 64 You know who is a great Secretary of Defense?

Speaker 42 William Cohen.

Speaker 62 Can you imagine Secretary Cohen ever getting up there and trying to exaggerate the impact of a military attack?

Speaker 42 He would have his generals doing it.

Speaker 61 President Trump should have just,

Speaker 41 we stand by our allies.

Speaker 52 Iran attaining a nuclear weapon is unacceptable in our eyes.

Speaker 64 That's it.

Speaker 63 Win. That's it.
Win.

Speaker 29 Win, Trump. That's it.

Speaker 80 You win.

Speaker 61 And then a bunch of photos release a bunch of photos and a bunch of information.

Speaker 42 Back it.

Speaker 63 Do you realize these B-2s?

Speaker 29 These B-2s took off from fucking Missouri.

Speaker 21 I know.

Speaker 57 I know. And got to Iran.

Speaker 26 And he was saying their feelings were hurt. The pilots' feelings were hurt by the press.

Speaker 26 Pilots don't give a fuck.

Speaker 50 They're seen

Speaker 26 top gun.

Speaker 26 Sorry, my friends. They don't give a fuck.
They're fine. They don't really care.
Anyway, speaking of this other thing, President Trump is also having some trouble with his big one, big beautiful bill.

Speaker 26 He says no one goes on vacation until Congress delivers. He's sticking to that July 4th deadline.
I don't know why people make deadlines. I don't like deadlines.
They always miss them.

Speaker 26 Senate Majority Leader John Thune says voting is on track for the end of this week, though major parts of the bill are still being rewritten.

Speaker 26 And Republicans are divided over key provisions, most of which surrounds Medicaid. They just arrested some people in wheelchairs today for protesting.

Speaker 26 Medicaid is one of the biggest sticking points with deficit hawks pushing for deeper cuts. And of course,

Speaker 26 it's a political nightmare for the Republicans. There's also GOP infighting over the provision that prohibits states from regulating AI during the next 10 years.

Speaker 26 Marjorie Taylor Greene brought this up. She's absolutely correct.
Although it would be great to have a national bill to not create this much chaos. That said, states should be able to to do that.

Speaker 26 I assume they'll get it passed, but will it be reconciled? Or I can't tell from the reporting whether, I assume they always end up passing these things.

Speaker 26 It's just whether it's going to be acceptable because a lot of people are speaking up. I'm talking only about the Republicans

Speaker 26 against it.

Speaker 26 And they keep not tapping it down, it seems like.

Speaker 29 I just, it's just so disappointing that there's not only it's such a cult now, the Republican Party, and also there's such a lack of leadership in the Democratic Party.

Speaker 49 You would think in the olden times that Tip O'Neill would call and say, okay, could we potentially wedge off 20 or 30 reasonable Republicans and say, all right, tell you what, we'll help you pass this thing, but we, and we'll go even deeper on the cuts if you match us on revenue increases on taxes on, you know, our most fortunate and take the deficit down from $3.5 trillion.

Speaker 80 to $1 trillion.

Speaker 30 I mean,

Speaker 53 you'd think

Speaker 29 there'd just be some people in the middle here that would reach across the aisle and say, here's an idea. Why don't we try and make ourselves really unpopular across the extremes on both sides?

Speaker 87 But that just doesn't happen anymore.

Speaker 26 Why should the Democrats help? Why should the Democrats help?

Speaker 81 Well, because if this passes as is, it not only is a budget buster and impose the greatest transfer of wealth in history, it's also basically a move towards autocracy.

Speaker 28 There's things in this bill, including, I mean, there's just so much, so many terrible things in this bill.

Speaker 30 Nobody in the administration can be found in contempt of court, so they can never subpoena them and ask that, force them to come testify.

Speaker 29 They're talking about putting up 150 million plus acres of national land for sale.

Speaker 78 I mean,

Speaker 41 there's so much ugly shit in this bill.

Speaker 26 Yeah, there is.

Speaker 32 So anyway,

Speaker 26 I can't see it not passing, but I mean, I think it's probably.

Speaker 32 He's losing.

Speaker 26 I'm telling you, he's losing the step. He's losing the step.
I don't think he has stranglehold that everybody thinks he does. And I think there's a lot of signs of that, including yelling at CNN.

Speaker 26 Like, what a waste of his time to yell at CNN. You know, I just don't, I don't know.
We'll see. We'll see.
We're not experts in this, but we'll see.

Speaker 26 And we, we, the AI thing should absolutely not pass. States should have the right to do that.

Speaker 26 And again, we should have a national bill, but that's that would be, we don't have a national bill on anything having to do with tech.

Speaker 26 Okay, let's go on a quick break. We come back.
How New York's mayoral primary could rewrite the playbook for Democrats.

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Speaker 23 Try Odo for free at odo.com. That's odoo.com.

Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odoo.

Speaker 91 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 93 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 95 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 98 This is where Odo comes in.

Speaker 14 It's the only business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 9 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 12 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 104 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 108 And the best part is that Odoo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 112 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 10 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 86 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business.

Speaker 66 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

Speaker 23 Try Odo for free at odo.com. That's odoo.com.

Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odo.

Speaker 91 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 93 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 10 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 98 This is where Odoo comes in.

Speaker 14 It's the only business business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 9 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 12 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 104 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 108 And the best part is that Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 112 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 10 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 86 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business.

Speaker 66 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

Speaker 23 Try Odo for free at odoo.com. That's odoo.com.

Speaker 26 Scott, we're back. It's being called the biggest upset in modern New York City history.

Speaker 26 I'm not sure about that, by one Democratic strategist, Zoran Mamdani, a 33-year-old state assemblyman from Queens, is poised to win the city's Democratic primary for mayor.

Speaker 26 His closest opponent, Andrew Cuomo, conceded Tuesday night pretty quickly.

Speaker 26 It was a blowout. Mamdani, a Democratic socialist, campaigned on New York's affordability crisis.
It was very canny. He's a very canny guy.
Proposing free buses and a $30 minimum wage.

Speaker 26 You must love that, Scott. And higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires and corporations.

Speaker 26 Young voters played a big role in this election with 25 to 34-year-olds comprising the largest share of early voters, although he won in surprising places, including with Jewish voters.

Speaker 26 Amdani now heads towards the general election this November where he'll face current mayor Eric Adams and possibly Cuomo again, although Cuomo looks like it's pulled out because a loser doesn't win.

Speaker 26 Cuomo is too smart to lose again. If the former governor runs as an independent, he's able to.

Speaker 26 But others like Bill Ackman as usual, because he's such a crank, thinks there should be a right-in candidate.

Speaker 26 He's losing his mind because he didn't see this coming Because he does, he's always wrong about everything to do with politics. He's a great investor, but otherwise, he's an idiot.

Speaker 26 Let's listen to some of Mom Donnie's victory speech from Tuesday night.

Speaker 117 We have won because New Yorkers have stood up for a city they can afford.

Speaker 117 A city where they can do more than just struggle.

Speaker 117 And it's where the mayor will use their power to reject Donald Trump's fascism

Speaker 117 to stop mass ICE agents from deporting our neighbors

Speaker 117 and to govern our city as a model for the Democratic Party.

Speaker 26 Really interesting Canada. I think even the Republicans acknowledge it.
And actually, the smartest Republican, I know Bill Steppian was like, don't try to dismiss them.

Speaker 26 But MAGA is melting down over the win with Laura Loomer, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and others launching xenophobic attacks. They're pretty grotesque.
So was Cuomo, by the way, that ad he did.

Speaker 26 I don't think those work.

Speaker 26 But talk about this lessons because this guy

Speaker 26 could have been really stained by some of his previous tweets and worries about things he had said and with Jewish voters, but a lot of Jewish voters voted for him, which is interesting.

Speaker 26 Although people, I have had many people very upset

Speaker 26 by it at the same time. I have to tell you,

Speaker 26 both my sons were very excited and they zeroed in on the affordability part and about the sensible stuff that he was doing more than anything. And also, he's a very attractive guy.

Speaker 26 He's great at social media. He sounds great.
He's handsome, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 26 Scott, I'd love to hear.

Speaker 26 I didn't talk to you about this at all. So I'd love to hear your take.

Speaker 27 This is a political earthquake.

Speaker 33 And I got to be honest, and this will piss off a lot of my friends.

Speaker 48 I think it's hard not to be somewhat inspired by this.

Speaker 44 And there's a lot of, you know, I personally, I couldn't help but feel a little bit inspired by some of it.

Speaker 67 I love a younger generation of voters pushing back on money and the establishment.

Speaker 30 I mean,

Speaker 38 Bloomberg gave $8 million to Cuomo.

Speaker 42 Dan Lowe, Bill Ackman, the Democratic political machine was run over by a populist younger movement.

Speaker 69 This was, and to a certain extent, it has echoes of the Trump campaign in terms of tactics focused on affordability and weaponized social media.

Speaker 68 So while he was on social media, Cuomo was running TV ads.

Speaker 48 But just to give you a sense for the difference in the campaigns, you know, look at their Instagram followings.

Speaker 84 Look at

Speaker 71 the platforms they weaponized and how they went about it.

Speaker 29 It was polling just at 1% four and a half months ago.

Speaker 62 And

Speaker 30 just as

Speaker 48 I think that Trump got Kearney and the

Speaker 78 Australian leader elected, I actually think Netanyahu got this guy elected. I think that so many, I think Israel is so unpopular right now amongst people.

Speaker 26 We've talked about this last show, the brand, the brand. It feels brutal.
The brand feels brutal.

Speaker 29 There's just a general sense that Israel are no longer the good guys or the bad guys.

Speaker 28 And standing up to them, and he tapped into that anger, is

Speaker 43 a very effective strategy right now.

Speaker 46 So can I ask you?

Speaker 26 He didn't talk a lot about that, which was interesting.

Speaker 55 Well, he tried to run from that stuff.

Speaker 26 But he talked about affordability and he talked about the minimum wage. One of the ideas, which I'm, I don't know what I think about it, the

Speaker 26 city-run grocery stores, I was like, probably not, but great, kind of interesting idea.

Speaker 26 Everything, even though if I didn't agree with several of his things, I was like, I like your, I like the cut of your jib, like that you're actually thinking of kind of some interesting ideas and stuff.

Speaker 26 So

Speaker 29 let's talk about some of his policies.

Speaker 41 So he wanted to talk about housing and he wants to talk about, okay, so fine, we have a housing problem, right?

Speaker 61 One idea makes sense.

Speaker 29 Constructing 200,000 units of housing over 10 years, you would need, you would want to activate and unleash the private sector with tax subsidies and

Speaker 29 private housing construction. You would want to want to motivate them through tax subsidies such that more housing development got built.

Speaker 28 You want to do away with NIMBYism and make it easier to build.

Speaker 29 At the same time, rent freezes do exactly the opposite.

Speaker 30 They're populist bullshit because all you do when you freeze rent is you suppress the desire in the amount of money that goes into into new development and new housing.

Speaker 62 You suppress housing stock.

Speaker 79 And it's just a transfer of wealth from entrants that can't find a place because there's no new housing to the people who were fortunate enough to move into a rent stabilized place 40 years ago.

Speaker 29 So it doesn't work.

Speaker 82 Universal free child care, I think it's a great idea and it shows economic return.

Speaker 87 And I was happy to pay 13%

Speaker 32 taxes.

Speaker 30 in New York when I lived there because, and one of the reasons I was happy to do that was because one, it's an amazing city to live in.

Speaker 29 And two, two, something that made me feel really good about the city is my son was speech delayed.

Speaker 28 And the state had a state-sponsored funded program to get these really wonderful young, mostly women to come into our home and give my kid occupational therapy.

Speaker 28 And these things pay off and they make people feel really good about government.

Speaker 34 Now,

Speaker 50 quote unquote, city-run grocery stores.

Speaker 60 That's a, let me think, what's the term?

Speaker 62 That's a fucking stupid idea.

Speaker 32 These are.

Speaker 32 I get that, but go ahead. Go ahead.

Speaker 5 Well, hold on.

Speaker 30 But just, I mean, this shit makes no sense.

Speaker 87 You want the customer service of the DMV with the merchandising of your produce by the IRS.

Speaker 55 Grocery stores, the one business you would not want the government in is grocery because it's a low-margin business.

Speaker 43 It's loco bodegas who are very good at what they do, mostly immigrants.

Speaker 62 This makes absolutely no sense.

Speaker 28 Now, taxing the wealthy.

Speaker 26 Before you get to that one, can I just say there's some co-ops that work there?

Speaker 26 The idea is to get people who are poor better food, right? So that's a great idea. That's where, that's where I was digging it.
And there are certain co-ops that work really well.

Speaker 26 There's certain innovative things to do in that area. But I agree on the they're not run by the government.
No, but there's a way the government can encourage, say, a food co-op or healthier food.

Speaker 26 But go ahead.

Speaker 32 Go ahead.

Speaker 44 Well, you could do that.

Speaker 41 But if

Speaker 45 you want healthier food outcomes, you should just put more money in the hands of poor people so they can find their own food and find and endorse the groceries.

Speaker 43 Grocery stores operate at like razor-thin markets.

Speaker 30 The notion the government's going to figure out how to do this better than anyone else is ridiculous.

Speaker 26 So minimum wage.

Speaker 83 Free bus, fine.

Speaker 61 I love $30 an hour minimum wage.

Speaker 34 I think New York should lead the way on that.

Speaker 88 I think it's a fantastic idea.

Speaker 87 You need to see studies around raising taxes on the wealthiest because what he's talking about is raising taxes 2% on people making over a certain amount of money.

Speaker 29 Those people would now have a tax rate, an effective tax rate, including federal, state, local, and this additional tax of about 52%.

Speaker 43 At some point, raising taxes actually does exactly the opposite. It reduces the tax rolls.

Speaker 86 In terms of, I was quite bothered, quite frankly, by what I feel were some,

Speaker 60 I won't say anti-Semitic, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but some anti-Israel positioning that

Speaker 60 in his background that made me uncomfortable.

Speaker 31 Having said that, what I said to my friends last night in a group chat is, I don't really care what a mayor thinks about Israel.

Speaker 85 I don't, I want them to pick up the trash and operate the subway.

Speaker 30 And And I don't think it's,

Speaker 69 sure, you want to look at their view on international affairs and New York punches above its weight class.

Speaker 42 But at the end of the day, it's an operational role.

Speaker 21 And I got to be honest, I love the idea of young people and a new generation of youth.

Speaker 64 And by the way, this is a form of revolution.

Speaker 87 This is young people saying, whatever you folks are doing, the establishment isn't working.

Speaker 34 And we're going, we're picking someone new.

Speaker 30 And he weaponized newer mediums.

Speaker 91 He was very good on staying on message and affordability.

Speaker 87 He's a very attractive candidate.

Speaker 30 I think who's more freaked out about this is not the GOP, but the Democratic establishment.

Speaker 26 As they should be. Let me, before you, before we move on to that, on his statements, he did go a long way to try to fix that in a lot of ways.
And I think one of the things he could do is be

Speaker 26 a lot, like give him the minute to try to do something that brings people together, right?

Speaker 26 Don't assume that what he said as a Queens thing that he might, I think he does understand that he would be the mayor for all of New York.

Speaker 26 And what to me is interesting is, so you have someone like Daniel Lurry in San Francisco, who I wouldn't say is conservative, but he's much more centrist, right? He's not conservative.

Speaker 26 And this guy is this. One of the things I find exciting, whatever you think of this, is voters are speaking.

Speaker 26 And, you know, the minute, of course, this happened, my mom goes, I'm selling my apartment in New York as a socialist, because that's what's on Fox News on friggin, like, whatever.

Speaker 26 whatever. It's so racist over there at Fox News.
Can I just tell you? They were like, they were, you know, this Zohan movie? They're like, he's Zohan. I'm like, Zohan was an Israeli commando.

Speaker 26 And by the way, he rocked. Like, are you, you fucking idiots? It's all about rich people trying to manipulate an election and make people of color hate each other.

Speaker 26 Like, it was like, they just don't even understand their references, but fine. But of course, my mom immediately said, like, I'm going to sell my partner, which she's not doing.

Speaker 26 And all I said to her is like, The voters decided what they wanted. Every time Trump wins, you say the voters decided what they wanted.
Well, they did. And she's like, oh, that's a good point.

Speaker 26 Like, the voters wanted this. It's not some young people being stupid.
These are the voters. You complain about them voting.
They vote the way they want to vote. So respect their vote.

Speaker 26 Like, whether it's San Francisco bringing in Lurie, whether it's whoever it is, like, it doesn't matter. This is their vote and they count.

Speaker 26 And the Democratic establishment trying to shove Cuomo down our throats, and that's a gross thing to think about.

Speaker 32 What an a repulsive

Speaker 26 thing they did here. Like so cynical, so repulsive, and so not listening to voters who matter, who really matter.

Speaker 37 Yeah, he's going to run up against some blocks there.

Speaker 48 So first off, it's not a fait accompli.

Speaker 42 No.

Speaker 48 There's, if you look at the numbers, I think there's about 4 million registered voters.

Speaker 33 He got about 400,000 votes.

Speaker 48 So he literally got 10% of the registered vote.

Speaker 82 There is an opportunity for Eric Adams, potentially, if enough people.

Speaker 29 Yeah, he's got his own issues.

Speaker 40 This is something, this was a real anomaly, but it's not,

Speaker 69 you know,

Speaker 29 the speculation sites are saying it has a 70% chance of winning right now in the general.

Speaker 38 But on the whole, look,

Speaker 43 America has to deal with the fact that

Speaker 20 the following, in my view, young people have had it.

Speaker 76 Young people have said, okay,

Speaker 43 I see all of this prosperity.

Speaker 34 I see all of this obsession with wealth.

Speaker 69 I feel like every streaming media program, whether it's sirens or friends and neighbors and social media, is just

Speaker 62 wealth porn being rubbed in people's faces all fucking day long, where it's impossible to feel like,

Speaker 46 okay,

Speaker 52 I'm only making $150,000 a year and living in Brooklyn and I'm broke. And every day it's just being shoved in my face that I am failing and it is so goddamn.

Speaker 34 And meanwhile, Bloomberg's giving $8 million to a candidate who resigned from office in disgrace.

Speaker 65 I got to be honest.

Speaker 43 A lot of what this guy has said is deeply troubling to me.

Speaker 62 Having said that, I like a new generation of voters in a populist way just rolling right fucking over wealthy people who think they can buy incumbency.

Speaker 43 I thought it was, you know,

Speaker 30 he is not my candidate.

Speaker 58 Some of his ideas make no sense and they will not get through the assembly or whoever the governing body is.

Speaker 26 Like Cuomo, his ideas, he doesn't even live here. Like it doesn't even live in New York, which is even worse.

Speaker 27 He was not a good candidate.

Speaker 30 A good candidate, I was supporting, you know, anyone I support means they're not going to win.

Speaker 48 I was supporting a guy named Whitney Tilson, who's just a blocking and tackling smart guy and a good man and good on the issues. This guy captured lightning in a bottle.

Speaker 28 I think young people are saying we're fed up.

Speaker 47 I think this guy absolutely weaponized social media.

Speaker 48 And the fact that someone can get this far on ideas, on sheer force of character, he was fucking genius.

Speaker 87 For the rent freeze thing, which by by the way is a shitty idea, he jumped into the freezing water.

Speaker 64 You're not going to see Cuomo do that.

Speaker 26 Did you see the halal? The $10 halal?

Speaker 119 These are the four bills that are sitting in the city council right now, which would give these vendors their own permits and make your halal more affordable.

Speaker 119 But Eric Adams hasn't said a single word about them. If you owned the permit, then how much would you charge for the plate?

Speaker 23 $7. $8.

Speaker 120 $8.

Speaker 119 Would you rather pay $10 for a plate of halal or $8? $8.

Speaker 86 $8.

Speaker 119 I think $8 is the way to go. If I was the mayor, I'd be working with city council from day one to make halal eight bucks again.

Speaker 97 Oh, how would it taste?

Speaker 119 Tastes like $10, but it should be $8.

Speaker 26 That was fantastic. It was so smart way to talk about affordability.
It was like, it was so substantive

Speaker 26 in the silliest way, but it was hysterically funny and so enjoyable.

Speaker 26 One, two very quick things that I'd love to get your thoughts on, then we got to move on. But immigrants, there's a story right now.

Speaker 26 Immigrants are driving population growth across america these this guy feels like america like where it's going i don't care you can hold on to your white america all you want but it is not that is not what's happening in our country he appealed to a lot more people he appealed to the numbers are so interesting of who he appealed to he wouldn't the winner here this is the one guy i have to say brad lander who if if the if the democrats are serious about someone with experience and sorry the new york times if you were serious you would have backed back brad lander right?

Speaker 32 Yep.

Speaker 64 Controller.

Speaker 48 Greg Consolation or whatever he called speech.

Speaker 26 What did he do? I have to tell you, he and they, they, they cross-referenced each other. He, he hugged Mom Dani.
He hugged him.

Speaker 26 They crossed, they crossed, said, vote for each other, you know, rank each other one and two, depending on what you want. Then he, and he backed him.

Speaker 26 He should put Lander in an office if he becomes in some way.

Speaker 32 He sure he will.

Speaker 50 He will.

Speaker 26 Sure, like deputy mayor or whatever.

Speaker 26 This guy took a risk. He's Jewish.
He's like, I've talked talked to him. I don't think he like gave him that cover.

Speaker 26 I thought Brad Lander,

Speaker 26 and then he became exciting because he got arrested. He's interesting.

Speaker 26 He made

Speaker 26 Mamdani more safe for people who were worried. And

Speaker 26 Mamdani made Lander more interesting in some weird way. So I love that pair.
I love that pairing of the two of them.

Speaker 48 It's an interesting, it's an interesting peanut butter and chocolate.

Speaker 32 Yeah.

Speaker 26 If it's a choice between,

Speaker 47 I actually like Andrew Cuomo.

Speaker 38 I met him on Bill Maher.

Speaker 60 I actually thought he was, he was a, he seemed like a competent, decent man to me.

Speaker 58 I think he would have been a competent, decent mayor.

Speaker 82 But if the decision was between a candidate backed by the establishment, in my opinion, who

Speaker 30 looked at the mayor's mansion as rehab for his political reputation such that in 18 to 24 months, he could enter into consensual hallucination with the staff and announce his run for presidency, which is, I think, exactly what he was planning, or a 33-year-old that energizes young people and brings some fresh new ideas, some of them naive, some of them won't work.

Speaker 75 I'm cool with the 33-year-old.

Speaker 42 I think this is somewhat, I got to be, I think this is somewhat inspiring.

Speaker 28 His viewpoint and some of his rhetoric around Israel, I find deeply offensive and disturbing.

Speaker 47 Having said that, I don't really care what Amira thinks about that shit.

Speaker 48 And a lot of my friends will get angry, but that's not their role.

Speaker 71 Their role is to make sure the subways are moving on time.

Speaker 27 Affordability, I'm all for it.

Speaker 61 Having said that, I left New York in 2011 because I couldn't afford to live there.

Speaker 30 I had two kids.

Speaker 29 I was working my ass off. I was making what I thought was a lot of money.

Speaker 37 And I remember saying to my partner, I'm sick of feeling middle class while I make all of this money.

Speaker 28 And we moved.

Speaker 43 I don't think anyone has a birthright to live in New York.

Speaker 30 Having said that, if there are programs to maintain the diversity and the viscosity and let ensure that young people continue to populate these great companies by creating, reducing the NIMBY ISM regulation,

Speaker 87 unleashing the private sector in terms of new housing development.

Speaker 34 I'm all for it.

Speaker 30 And the universal or you know, effectively universal pre-K and $30 and minimum dollar minimum wage to set a tone to inspire the rest of the nation, recognizing if you pay people $30 minimum wage, yeah, some places will go out of business, but on the whole, it'll be stimulative for the economy.

Speaker 62 I'm down for it.

Speaker 78 It is time.

Speaker 50 It is time for these fucking older Democrats to get on an ice flow and give some new people a shot.

Speaker 26 Let them do their dumb dumb ideas, but they're good ideas. They're fresh.

Speaker 61 Perfect was not on the menu.

Speaker 27 This guy was not perfect for me on a lot of levels, but

Speaker 7 I got to be honest.

Speaker 32 I knew I knew you were.

Speaker 26 He's also a handsome man. You also like a handsome man, don't you?

Speaker 53 Guilty. Guilty.

Speaker 32 Guilty.

Speaker 32 Yeah.

Speaker 26 They just did a profile of his wife who's also pretty cool.

Speaker 29 But it's time for a new generation of leaders representing young people who, for the first time in our nation's history, aren't doing as well as their parents.

Speaker 30 It is time for the next.

Speaker 29 It is time to shift.

Speaker 26 You need to get on an ice flow, Scott.

Speaker 30 It is time for the next, it is time for the next generation.

Speaker 41 So I, I hope that this guy appoints really talented, thoughtful people, that he takes some of the rhetoric down and that he's more thoughtful about some of his economic plans.

Speaker 26 Can I, the, the GOP is trying to make him the face of the Democratic Party. That shows how fucking old they are.
That's the thing. I was like, be careful, my friends.

Speaker 48 Like, oh, the Democrats should take notes on how this guy ran.

Speaker 26 I know, but one of the things, the GOP rushing to do this, it's not working with young people. I can tell you that.
It's not.

Speaker 26 They can see with their eyes, right? What an interesting and attractive candidate this guy is.

Speaker 26 If they make him the face of the Democratic Party, they're going to lose everything because they're old, creaky men.

Speaker 62 But just one additional piece of data.

Speaker 69 And I haven't reconciled what this means, but this was sort of champagne socialism.

Speaker 52 You realize that Cuomo beat Momdani by 13 points.

Speaker 80 If they made less than 50 grand,

Speaker 48 the lower income segment broke very hard for Cuomo.

Speaker 30 And it was middle and upper income that broke for Momdani.

Speaker 48 I mean, it's just very, it's very interesting what happened here and how it's going to impact national politics.

Speaker 38 But the takeaway I get is that it is younger people are done and they're ready for new faces and they're weaponizing new mediums.

Speaker 82 And I think the best thing this kid could do if he gets, if he gets through the general is immediately, publicly listen to and meet with Bloomberg and meet with Jewish leaders and focus on blocking and tackling and everyday things that impact everyday Americans and our everyday New Yorkers.

Speaker 26 Shows he can work. This is this idea of with Sarah McBride.
There's all these very exciting candidates.

Speaker 26 Imperfect allies. Imperfect allies.
That's the way to go.

Speaker 32 I love that term.

Speaker 39 I get that a lot.

Speaker 26 All right, let's go on a quick break. We come back.
We'll talk about Trump already considering Fed chair replacements.

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Speaker 121 Sometimes the difference between success and failure comes down to one chance encounter, or following a counterintuitive instinct, or ignoring conventional wisdom to make a bold decision.

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Speaker 26 Scott, we're back with more news. Let's go through these quick.
President Trump reportedly wants to name a Fed chair Jerome Powell's replacement as early as September or October.

Speaker 26 Powell's term runs for another 11 months, a transition period typically lasts just three to four months. Trump's already on it.

Speaker 26 Listen to a clip of him at the NATO summit responding to a question about interviewing candidates.

Speaker 72 I know

Speaker 72 within three or four people who are all going to pick. I mean, he goes out pretty soon, fortunately, because I think he's terrible.

Speaker 26 Yeah, a year is not too bad, Trump. You can't force him out.

Speaker 26 The president is reportedly considering several candidates, including former Fed Governor Kevin Morsh and World Bank President David Malpass.

Speaker 26 Treasury Secretary Scott Besant is reportedly also being pitched by allies.

Speaker 26 Very quickly, why is he doing this?

Speaker 88 Well, he just wants to neuter him and he wants the governors to have a bigger say.

Speaker 44 But

Speaker 38 Chairman Powell will go down and one of the greatest.

Speaker 42 Economic professors and economic theory will constantly cite.

Speaker 29 Jerome Powell as somebody who is a steady hand.

Speaker 70 And

Speaker 55 the next Democratic president will give him the National Medal of Freedom and it'll be well-deserved.

Speaker 26 Yeah, I agree. There we have it.
Well, Trump,

Speaker 26 again, weakness on Trump's behalf, I feel like he can't have everything he wants, so he throws a little hissy. He's doing a lot of hissies lately.

Speaker 26 Hissies aren't a good look for an old man, by the way.

Speaker 26 Another one, the FTC has agreed to approve the merger of advertising giants, Omnicom, and Interpublic Group after the companies agreed not to collude on politically motivated ad boycotts, because, you know.

Speaker 26 We don't love the First Amendment anymore. While the $13.5 billion merger will still allow the company's clients to choose from whether they want

Speaker 26 to advertise on certain platforms, which is their right, by the way. It's kind of so stupid that they had to agree to this dumb thing.

Speaker 26 Speaking of which, liberal advocacy organization Media Matters has sued the FTC, claiming the agency waged a campaign of retribution on behalf of President Trump and Elon Musk.

Speaker 26 The agency started investigating Media Matters last month over whether it illegally colluded with other groups to boycott advertising on X.

Speaker 26 Again, I'm glad they did that.

Speaker 26 I think, you know, it's really kind of grotesque that

Speaker 26 they aren't letting advertisers decide where they, even if they're talking together who cares it's the first amendment i don't know what else to say about these two cases i don't you may have some thoughts about omnicom and interpublic doing this they just had to kind of do it just to get a thing approved i assume omnicom and ipg

Speaker 44 uh

Speaker 114 tying up it's literally the the second lamest wedding of the weekend i mean

Speaker 29 they these are unim

Speaker 62 the reality is and i'm a can and i i every they're unimportant companies yeah they

Speaker 83 palantir will lose or gain the market cap of these companies in the next That's soaring.

Speaker 30 They're just not, they're a shadow of themselves.

Speaker 36 The conglomerate model no longer works.

Speaker 29 1.5% of GDP goes to marketing.

Speaker 30 And it's all every year, more and more of it goes to the guys we talk more about.

Speaker 29 And these folks, the fact that the FTC wanted to get in the way of this merger was insane.

Speaker 2 These guys, this is about survival.

Speaker 43 These guys need to consolidate, cut back office, do some spins.

Speaker 32 Figure AI out.

Speaker 42 It's tactical and not that important, but it's interesting.

Speaker 30 Publisher C has actually done a better job than Omnicom, IPG, or WPP by embracing technology. They have Epsilon, they have Sapient.

Speaker 88 They've done actually a pretty good job.

Speaker 69 And now their market cap is worth more than I think the other three combined.

Speaker 28 But this is an industry that we talk about as if it's important, and it's not.

Speaker 30 It employs a decent number of people.

Speaker 48 The ad industry played a really important role in the advancement of women.

Speaker 30 It was one of the initial industries to have female CEOs, Shelly Lazarus.

Speaker 43 The character that Peggy plays in Mad Men was actually a really important woman.

Speaker 38 It was one of the industries that figured out and elevated women to their natural ability as opposed to,

Speaker 80 well, let me put it this way. There was the glass ceiling was still there, but it was higher in the communications industry.

Speaker 28 It's been an important industry for the United States, but these companies need to consolidate just to survive.

Speaker 82 The idea of, I can't imagine a worse job than being a salesperson for X right now.

Speaker 50 Yeah.

Speaker 26 Well, speaking of which, what do you think about this idea that the FDC is, this guy who runs the FTC is such a clown. It's just ridiculous.
He's like a, he's like a

Speaker 26 errand boy for Trump, from Daddy Trump.

Speaker 69 Not for Trump, for Musk.

Speaker 60 Musk's hands is so far up his ass, if he opens his mouth, you can see Elon's palm right now.

Speaker 77 The notion that you are,

Speaker 37 the notion that you are, what about that, that black hole on fire?

Speaker 26 Black hole.

Speaker 27 Come visit us at our wedding.

Speaker 27 If I was on a honeymoon with Jeff Bezos, you would absolutely show up.

Speaker 40 I have no doubt.

Speaker 39 Okay.

Speaker 81 Anyways,

Speaker 64 it's insane.

Speaker 36 Yeah.

Speaker 29 You're saying free speech is your ability to say things, but it's not free speech when you decide you don't want to advertise on a platform.

Speaker 32 Yeah. They're allowed to.

Speaker 26 I don't care if they have lunch and all decide to do it together. Who cares? You know, here, Linda, Linda Yacarino, make a better platform.
Don't have a shitty platform. Elon, sell better cars.

Speaker 26 Sell better cars. Perhaps you will do well.
Otherwise, you know, step off letting advertisers do what they want. And by the way, they're already, as you say, suffering.

Speaker 26 They should do whatever it takes to do well. Correct?

Speaker 32 Right?

Speaker 46 Well, okay.

Speaker 60 So the actual law is a boycott would only be illegal if the companies involved colluded with each other to obtain lower prices.

Speaker 50 And that's not what they're doing.

Speaker 26 No, they're just saying this is a shitty platform.

Speaker 43 They're basically saying as a service to their to their advertisers, this is not a safe place.

Speaker 35 You need to be careful here.

Speaker 29 And until they make it more brand safe, you shouldn't advertise here.

Speaker 35 That is entirely legal. Yeah.

Speaker 26 Anyway, one interesting case, though, I have to say, I was really struck by both Meta and Anthropic struck legal wins against the book authors this week. The two companies faced similar suits.

Speaker 26 In both cases, the federal judge ruled that the training of AI models on copyrighted books was fair use and transformative. However, both judges noted the case were limited in scope.

Speaker 26 The judge in Meta's case said the plaintiffs, which included Sarah Silverman, quote, made the wrong arguments and failed to prove that copying harmed the market for authors.

Speaker 26 And then Sam Altman, on my friend Casey Newton and Kevin Roos' podcast, Hard Fork, pushed back really hard on the New York Times and saying, I like the New York Times, but they're wrong about this.

Speaker 26 So there's some real aggression here on these legal wins. I'd love to know what you thought about this, too.

Speaker 26 They were, it's super, copyright is super complex. And I guess one judge said, if you buy the book, you've done enough if you actually buy the book instead of steal it, I guess.

Speaker 29 I was disappointed and surprised.

Speaker 55 And I thought, okay, we've said for a while, this this is a moment in time where

Speaker 70 creators need to really circle the wagons around their IP and at least participate in some of the extraordinary shareholder gains that this industry is garnering by not actually creating content, but crawling content and then using machine to offer it up in interesting ways.

Speaker 76 And so this to me was disappointing and

Speaker 30 surprising.

Speaker 29 And I don't understand the mechanics of the legal ruling, but I would have hoped that they would have pushed back and said,

Speaker 88 you know, I was hoping that there'd just be more respect for

Speaker 47 IP, because at some point, this just reminds me very much of back to the old days when Google figured out a way to crawl data and give the content providers two cents by sending them traffic they couldn't monetize.

Speaker 69 And they got 98 cents on the dollar for curating information in a really interesting way that other people had created.

Speaker 47 If you look at all of the models here, it's just all moving towards an asset-like model where you don't create content, you crawl it, slice it, dice it, serve it.

Speaker 29 And at some point, that's going to be bad for the overall economy when there's just no money in the business of fact-checking and content creation.

Speaker 50 And

Speaker 87 anyways, I was disappointed to see this ruling.

Speaker 40 What do you think?

Speaker 26 Yeah, I need to learn more about it. Like, I mean, I don't understand it.
I don't understand it because if they are able to do this,

Speaker 26 it's a real problem for authors. There's a great piece if people want to read in the Atlantic this week about AI upending publishing, which I thought was really smart.
So

Speaker 26 we need to learn more about this because it's an area we should know more about. But yeah, I was surprised by both these rulings, but they're doing little jigs over at Meta, I guess.

Speaker 26 But it's not over. I'll tell you that.
It's not over for Open AI. It's not over for any of them in terms of legal struggles.
They'll have a little bit.

Speaker 26 All right. One more quick break.
We'll be back for predictions.

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Speaker 26 Okay, Scott, let's hear your prediction. What is your prediction?

Speaker 55 I went back and looked through the headlines kind of the few days following 9-11 or our entry into Iraq or Afghanistan.

Speaker 37 And other than the bin Laden raid, where the headlines ended up to be

Speaker 69 the first 24, 48, and 72 hours ended up to actually being quite accurate.

Speaker 48 In every other instance, what comes out six or 12 months later is that we,

Speaker 45 what came out 24 hours later was just not that accurate.

Speaker 48 And so my prediction isn't that interesting.

Speaker 60 It's just that everything we think we know about these attacks in Iran, we don't know.

Speaker 55 And also, I have never felt a lack of certainty or confidence in the information coming out of our intelligence community and out of the White House, because it feels as if their priorities aren't giving the American public the truth, but just signaling macho.

Speaker 60 And I don't know if we're going to find out that, okay, all of the nuclear material was actually transported out or.

Speaker 26 That's the worrisome thing. That's the one they are that they one of the things they're not doing is saying they are sort of trying to punt on that because I think that's what happened.

Speaker 26 Like if you look at a lot of the headlines, they won't say anything. about whether the stuff was moved.

Speaker 89 Yeah, I interviewed this really

Speaker 58 interesting guy from the Carnegie Endowment, Karim Sajapur, I believe his name is.

Speaker 49 And, you know, it just military intervention in the Middle East, the only thing you know about it is it has just so many unintended consequences.

Speaker 78 And

Speaker 29 this whole thing feels so, today, just so performative on behalf, you know,

Speaker 34 we attack, feels very performative.

Speaker 62 Iran responds in what feels like a very performative way.

Speaker 52 So it's kind of a non-prediction prediction in that is whatever you think happened, the only thing I'm fairly certain on, that's not what happened.

Speaker 76 It's just.

Speaker 26 Do you feel like you're in a Mission Impossible movie where the uranium is on the move and Ethan Hunt has to get?

Speaker 28 I feel like I'm in the Truman show.

Speaker 26 Oh, see, I feel like Ethan Hunt's on the hunt for the uranium that's somewhere in a tiny ball that he just puts in his pocket.

Speaker 85 But think about this situation.

Speaker 30 It's an 86-year-old theocrat who knows he could be killed at any moment in a bunker. They've had to shut down the internet because they can't communicate with each other.

Speaker 98 And at the same time, we have Netanyahu, who is running to stay out of prison.

Speaker 30 And he's decided the way he does that is to be on a constant war footing, pulverizing and creating what is arguably at this point unnecessary death and destruction in Gaza that gets likely played a role in the mayoral election in New York.

Speaker 50 I know.

Speaker 38 I mean,

Speaker 49 or the fact that we probably wouldn't have gone into Iran to bomb these nuclear sites had the Ukrainian army not been so successful against defanging Russia, who would have still been in Syria and came to the United States.

Speaker 26 He was going to do that in 24 hours, Scott. I mean, 24 hours.

Speaker 55 The game theory here and the scenarios are just so crazy.

Speaker 42 And what I wonder, I know the military does this.

Speaker 41 Is there anyone with like a big whiteboard in the Defense Department or the Secretary Hexet that is actually gaming all of this out?

Speaker 21 Do they actually think through this stuff? Gaming.

Speaker 26 He couldn't play like war.

Speaker 32 It was an on-premise.

Speaker 27 Actually, that wasn't good. I'll do another quick one.

Speaker 43 I'll do the, I'll repeat the prediction.

Speaker 80 Reed Hastings going on the board of Anthropic.

Speaker 29 We are going to have an Anthropic Netflix joint venture that will compete with TikTok.

Speaker 26 I like it. I like it.
Yeah. I saw some other analysts note that, that TikTok's got to reach down into the YouTube, in the TikTok and YouTube categories.

Speaker 26 They've got to start really, you know, the growth isn't going to come from their regular business, but they have to really do both YouTube and small stuff.

Speaker 26 And I thought that was, I was like, ooh, Scott said that already.

Speaker 32 I already knew that.

Speaker 26 Anyway, good one.

Speaker 26 all right we want to hear from you send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind go to nymag.com slash pivot submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week this week on prof G Conversation Scott spoke with Ian Bremer the president and founder of the Eurasia group about Iran the role President Trump plays and what could come next on the global stage let's listen to a clip The backdrop on Trump is he's not gotten his deals done.

Speaker 124 He's really itching to make something happen. He wants to show that he can win on the international stage.

Speaker 124 And Iran suddenly was where he was putting a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of attention.

Speaker 110 So that's the background for him.

Speaker 124 The backdrop of Iran is that they have lost more influence, both regionally and globally, than pretty much anybody over the last year.

Speaker 26 Interesting, except for Elon Musk. Okay, that's the show.
Thanks for listening to Pivot. and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channels.

Speaker 26 We have a lot of YouTube channels, and we cross-promote each other on all of them, whether it's the Prof G1, On with Kara Swisher, or Pivot, which is a fantastic channel.

Speaker 26 We've got lots of stuff in there for you.

Speaker 26 We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Speaker 9 Today's show is produced by Lara Neyman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver.

Speaker 66 Ernie Intertod engineered this episode.

Speaker 9 Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Neil Severio, Dan Shalon, and Kate Gallagher. Yashak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.
Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Speaker 48 Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

Speaker 115 You can subscribe to the magazine nymag.com/slash pod.

Speaker 9 We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Speaker 9 The wedding is going to span three days, Kara, because when you're worth $215 billion, why have a reception when you can have a small economic summit?

Speaker 28 That's no good.

Speaker 118 Venice is hosting Bezos, where locals protest over tourism. It's like complaining about traffic while driving a monster truck to the complaint meeting.

Speaker 26 All right, on that, bye everybody. See you next week.

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