Mamdani's Victory, Iran Nuclear Damage Dispute, and Fed Chair Succession

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I don't know, Scott.

I'm going to just film it and we're going to have to see.

There might be a colonic that might happen.

Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher, and I have decamped to Scott's apartment in New York again.

Here I am.

Yeah, by the way, I don't know if you noticed, but I've changed the wireless passcode to please leave soon.

Not till you move back and I may still stay with you when you move back.

Yeah, Kara asked me yesterday where she should put her dirty laundry and I said in her car on the way home.

Kara, welcome.

You're welcome.

Just hands off the edibles, my granola, and my curate and chewables.

Other than that, everything's okay.

I am going to use all of them.

We're doing some filming here.

It's going to be, I'm not going to tell for what, for the secret.

Oh, Oh, great.

I'm getting a location fee, I assume.

Yes, exactly.

I'm going to a rave with Louie tonight.

That has got to be, you just brought the lame factor of that rave way up.

I'm excited.

Dancing.

I'm sure you're excited.

I love it.

You and Louie are going to a rave?

Yeah, we're going to a rave.

It's a health rave, the longevity rave.

We're very excited.

Okay, so first off, what you're saying is it's not a rave.

It's something not that cool that's decided to call itself a rave.

Cool?

No, no, it's by the cool people who do the raves.

The

daybreak.

What does that mean?

I don't know, Scott.

I'm gonna just film it and we're gonna have to see.

Mushrooms and get a colonic?

What does that mean?

No drugs.

No drugs.

There might be a colonic that might happen.

There's ice baths.

I don't know.

Scott, I'm trying to live in the moment like you tell me to.

You're trying to be a good mom.

I'm sure.

Not just that.

Louie's excited.

He's very excited.

He's excited about a lot of things, including the mayoral race here in New York.

But we've got a lot to get to today, including what Zoran Mamdani's mayoral primary win means for Democrats.

And President Trump wants to replace Fed Chair Jerome Powell early.

Good luck with that.

Also, all kinds of things are going on with Trump.

He's real mad at the press for not doing his propaganda.

Anyway, we'll also talk about who's in the running for that,

but other things.

So where are you?

London?

You're in London, right?

Yeah, I'm in London.

Yeah.

I have a really nice life.

I'm really blessed.

You do accept what where are you not now, right now, where you want to be?

Where I want to be?

In Venice.

You want to be in Venice.

You still want.

Did you see like

coming in?

Oh, yeah.

It's such a bad look.

Even though I like a wedding, I like a big, ridiculous wedding, but I got to tell you, it's like, oh, come on.

Although Kim Kardashian was wearing a

band across her boobs, which I kind of liked kind of stuff.

I didn't see that.

All of a sudden, I'm much more interested.

Oprah is there already and stuff like that.

Yeah.

I wish you went.

I wish I'm so sorry that I prevented you.

I had, I think I had a shot.

I was with some guys.

I think if I pushed for it, I could have done it.

I think one of those guys wrote me and said, I'm one of the guys that's going to be.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

Yeah.

He's like, I'm like, pictures quietly.

Just send them to us.

That's all.

No, this is this is a flex.

Those guys, generally speaking, want to be my friend because they think they're going to win me over.

And occasionally, they'll reach out to a third party and say, oh, I wouldn't mind grabbing drinks with Scott.

And I'm like, fuck no.

Yeah.

They all go through me.

Have you ever noticed that?

Everyone wants to meet Scott.

But it's so, they all think that everyone's dying to like have dinner or drinks.

I can't imagine a more boring group of people people to hang out with.

Bezos, yes, because he's in his midlife crisis

and has, you know, a hot woman who must have just be magnetic in terms of her personality.

But the other tech executives that like reach out to you and say, I'd like to get a group together to talk about technology.

My vision for technology.

I'm like, oh man.

They used to do that a lot back in the day.

They'd have dinners and there were always really good restaurants.

So you were like, I have a manscape with a weed whacker.

Yeah, exactly.

You know what?

The good thing about you not going to that wedding is this is what I imagine happening.

You go to the wedding and Lauren falls in love with you.

It could happen.

I think it'd be much more interesting if he fell in love with me.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's man him up.

We take our honeymoon in Capri and we're spotted rubbing lotion on each other.

Wearing a patril.

Why does that make me happy?

Why does that make me happy?

All right.

All right.

We have to get to things.

All right.

We have to get to real things.

First of all, President Trump is doubling down on his claim that the U.S.

obliterated Iran's nuclear program.

That's in spite of leaked intelligence reports saying the strikes only set Iran back by a few months.

Now, these are early intelligence reports, let's be fair.

And, you know, we definitely just, I don't know why he's not happy with we did a lot of damage and he did something bold, but he's not.

He's railing against the New York Times.

He's railing against CNN quite a bit,

including its reporter, Natasha, I think it's Bertrand.

He got testy when an NBC reporter asked about the report during a NATO press conference yesterday.

But let's listen.

We're talking about something that took place three days ago.

I understand.

That's right.

The report was done.

Three days ago.

Wait a minute.

Yes.

They didn't see it.

All they can do is take a guess.

Now, if you take a look at the pictures, if you take a look how it's all blackened, you know, the fire in brimstone is all underground because it's granite and it's all underground.

You don't show it.

But even there, with all of that being said, the whole area for 75 yards around, the hole where it hit is black with fire.

Blackened.

Blackened.

Anyway, then he had a fired up Piguet says, your drunkle, step in to back him up.

Let's play that.

You've all seen plenty of leakers.

And what do leakers do?

They have agendas.

And what do they do?

Do they share the whole information or just the part that they want to introduce?

And when they introduce that

preliminary report that's deemed to be low...

a low assessment, you know what a low assessment means?

Low confidence in the data in that report.

And why is there low low confidence?

Because all of the evidence of what was just bombed by 12 30,000-pound bombs is buried under a mountain, devastated and obliterated.

So if you want to make an assessment of what happened at Ford, you better get a big shovel and go really deep because Iran's nuclear program is obliterated.

It's not clear if it's obliterated.

Anyway, Haggs has said the FBI is investigating the leak.

The CIA director John Ratcliffe is now claiming there's credible evidence that Iran's nuclear program was severely damaged.

Trump is also saying that U.S.-Iran talks will happen next week, but doesn't think a formal deal is necessary after the strikes.

Today, again, Pete Egzeth, who is just really so unqualified every time he gets up,

was saying that we should celebrate pilots.

I mean, we do.

I go to Top Gun, Pete.

I love Top Gun.

I love when they hit the spot and I love it.

And he also was saying that the press should go along with propaganda because daddy needs it.

It's very strange.

All they were doing was reporting on things.

And before we move on before, I want to get your thoughts on this.

I need you also to weigh on on this.

At the NATO summit, Trump was asked about his exclablator and rant about Iran and Israel the other day, and NATO's Secretary General also had some thoughts.

This is the daddy reference.

Let's listen.

You know, they fight like hell.

You can't stop them.

Let them fight for about two, three minutes.

Then it's easier to stop them.

And then daddy has to sometimes use strong language to do things.

Strong language.

Every once in a while, you have to use a certain word.

So daddy has to use some strong language.

Anyway, Scott, I'm going to call you Daddy from now on.

Thoughts on all of this?

On Pete, on Trump, why he's so insistent about this?

And sort of losing ground for some reason, even though he was successful.

Well, a giant hole that's on fire that just, I think that's a pretty decent description of how I imagine my honeymoon with Jeff Bezos.

Ooh, that's bad.

If you're thinking of that, you can't get out of your head.

Daddy, speaking of daddy.

I just think it'd be worth the photos.

I don't think that would be.

You want to talk about something that would make news.

Seriously.

And not only that, it'd be really good for

I wonder if I wonder if we lose IBM as a sponsor.

We get Amazon.

We get Blue Origin.

Okay.

So first off, perception around foreign policy sometimes is more important than actual kinetic power.

And the reason we choose a civilian to head the Defense Department is they're supposed to make decisions to allocate resources correctly and ensure that our fighting machine doesn't

become generals who just consistently roam the earth.

And there's a reason we usually pick a civilian to be the Secretary of Defense.

And in an operation like this,

when you're up there saying,

no, no, it was great.

You lose all fucking credibility.

And what they should have is they should have someone up there with broad shoulders,

you know, a general, a man or a woman who has actually spent their life.

demonstrating character and excellence from the most competent organization in history, the U.S.

military, in a very sober way,

describing the operation.

And then when they say, and then when someone says there's reports that it's not as effective as it could have been, to say, well, we don't know.

We won't know.

Our preliminary reports are the following.

Yeah, the general did try to do that, General Kane.

They shoved him out of the way because they're also

there.

He had that look on his face, but go ahead.

They're also

anxious to say, check out my prosthetic penis.

I mean, these guys should be in the background.

The president should have announced the attack and then let the pros, the people who actually executed this operation and who have a reputation for not lying and exaggerating.

And Secretary Heg says should be nowhere near a mic around this.

This is not his job.

They should have generals.

Is it ruining the thing?

Because, you know, it's a successful thing to set them back by months.

Is it a successful thing to set them back by a year to set them back?

You know, there's reports the uranium was moved.

It would be really nice to know.

And trust me, I bet our allies will have a lot of intelligence on this.

And that's who the intelligence we're going to have to rely on is not ours, which is astonishing.

And of course, they've moved Tulsi Gabbard out of the way because she's saying, maybe not.

Like, she's caused a lot of problems because she's questioning the intelligence.

But to not rely on our own intelligence and to insult it seems, it seems like a waste.

It just weakens us.

It also is a waste.

Couldn't he just just be successful instead of being angry at like CNN and the New York Times?

Look, the victory here is that the president did show leadership.

Absolutely.

The president, who has a lot of critics within his own party about foreign interventions, took this action.

That demonstrates leadership.

It demonstrates strength.

We are the only nation in the world that has these

sci-fi-like B-2 bombers that we can fly from fucking Missouri to anywhere in the world to drop

an ordinance that no one else has.

And is it effective?

Yeah, it was effective when anyone looked up or we saw photos of these B-2 bombers rolling in.

In addition, it also demonstrates that we support Israel.

It also demonstrates that our memory is long and our reach is far.

All of those things are good for America.

But to get up there and start...

exaggerating and with no real credible evidence and then attacking the press for doing its job which is and not being a propaganda person.

It just reeks of weakness.

It's like, okay, let's figure out a way.

I do think Trump has actually, in many instances, good instincts.

And then he goes about it and he decides to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

And that's what they are doing here.

If a general had just gotten up there and said, we won't know for a while what the true effectiveness of this was.

He did.

He did.

They just stepped all over him.

He did.

Kane did that.

So did, by the way, J.D.

Vance, right?

Like

they were doing the right things at the beginning, except for Trump.

They just don't know what he's going to do.

He started cursing.

He started making messes.

And then because he's so obsessed with the media, and especially media he calls losers is the ones he talks about all the time.

It's sort of like the guy who broke up with you who can't stop talking about you.

If they're such losers, Donald, stop talking about them.

If it doesn't matter, stop talking about them.

But it clearly does to him.

What's interesting, though, to me is, let me read this.

He calls them, he called the New York Times and CNN bad and sick people.

And of course, CNN is backing the reporters.

So it's the New York Times.

But this is something I think I told you, the New York Times is pushing back hard now.

And I was told by someone there that that's what they're going to do now.

They're sick of saying we stand by our reporting.

This is what they wrote, which I was really, it was very pointed.

Trump called this fake news, but he and his entire national security team subsequently confirmed that the Defense Intelligence Agency did, in fact, produce a preliminary assessment described in the report by the Times and others.

So their statement was fake, not the Times reporting.

I think this just

the press

has had it with this nonsense.

I'm glad.

I'm glad they said it that way.

I'm glad they think that what we call more progressive media that spends the money to do fact-checking, and I think the Democratic Party need to become the organizations and not fucking around.

Yeah, we're not fucking around.

And to say, you know, as is often the case, when the, you know, when the data is true, they go to attacking the institution and not the reporting or the data.

And this is nothing but additional evidence that, in fact, our reporting is entirely accurate.

I mean, they should just start,

I'm down for this.

And I think AG, is that his name?

Should start hitting back and saying, as is the pattern here.

That statement

was not an AG-like thing, which I'm kind of glad.

He's finally

not just sticking up for his reporters.

But in general, to say history will show that there's a pattern that

the more serious and personal the attacks are, the more accurate the reporting ends up being.

They did that around the Elon stuff, too.

Their reporter was allowed to tweet this nonsense, like, especially when they called her a fat liar and all this other stuff.

So yeah, so I don't,

you know, that when

Elon Musk went about saying, well, you mean the organization that got a Pulitzer for describing Russia Gate?

Yeah, the one that also got 141 other Pulitzer.

Yes, I know.

So I fully embrace this.

I am sick of Democrats and progressive media saying, we're going to take the high road.

No, fuck that.

I like a low road myself.

We like a low road.

We like a low road.

We're low roaders.

The low road.

Since you're the marketing expert from a marketing point of view, what would you do here if you were to, besides, you already outlined it?

Be quiet.

Let the general get up and say it and let victory just show itself because people,

well, Americans don't support this, which is interesting.

Polling doesn't, but

let the results speak for themselves, right?

Correct?

That's what you're saying.

The most impressive people in boards and the most impressive leaders in a corporate sense are very measured and thoughtful and are the first to say, I can't take credit for that or I don't know.

I think, again,

was it General Kane?

General Kane.

You know, these people,

these people deal with life and death and the implementation of lethal force.

And so when they're asked questions, they take them very seriously and they want a reputation for truth because they know that other people are willing to put their own sons and daughters in harm's way based on that they'll get truth back.

And in a situation like this, Secretary Hex should be nowhere near a microphone.

He should be Sophia Koppel at the Oscars, and that is chained to her desk at home.

I don't know where I got that reference.

Anyway, well, he's going to keep him now because he's Mr.

Defensive, even if he looks ridiculous.

He's making Trump look ridiculous.

You know who is a great Secretary of Defense?

William Cohen.

Can you imagine Secretary Cohen ever getting up there and trying to exaggerate the impact of a military attack?

He would have his generals doing it.

President Trump should have just, one, we stand by our allies.

Iran attaining a nuclear weapon is unacceptable in our eyes.

That's it.

Win.

That's it.

Win.

Win, Trump.

That's it.

You win.

And then a bunch of photos release a bunch of photos and a bunch of information.

Do you really?

These B-2s, these B-2s took off from fucking Missouri

and got to Iran.

Then he was saying their feelings were hurt.

The pilots' feelings were hurt by the press.

Pilots don't give a fuck.

They're

top gun.

Sorry, my friends.

They don't give a fuck.

They're fine.

They don't really care.

Anyway, speaking of this other thing, President Trump is also having some trouble with his big, one, big, beautiful bill.

He says no one goes on vacation until Congress delivers.

He's sticking to that July 4th deadline.

I don't know why people make deadlines.

I don't like deadlines.

You always miss them.

Senate Majority Leader John Thune says voting is on track for the end of this week, though major parts of the bill are still being rewritten.

And Republicans are divided over key provisions, most of which surrounds Medicaid.

They just arrested some people in wheelchairs today for protesting.

Medicaid is one of the biggest sticking points with deficit hawks pushing for deeper cuts.

And of course,

it's a political nightmare for the Republicans.

There's also GOP infighting over the provision that prohibits states from regulating AI during the next 10 years.

Marjorie Taylor Greene brought this up.

She's absolutely correct.

Although it would be great to have a national bill to not create this much chaos.

That said, states should be able to do that.

I assume they'll get it passed, but will it be reconciled?

Or I can't tell from the reporting whether, I assume they always end up passing these things.

It's just whether it's going to be acceptable because a lot of people are speaking up.

I'm talking only about the Republicans

against it.

And they keep not tapping it down, it seems like.

I just, it's just so disappointing that there's not only

the Republican Party, and also there's such a lack of leadership in the Democratic Party.

You you would think in the olden times that Tip O'Neill would call and say, okay, could we potentially wedge off 20 or 30 reasonable Republicans and say, all right, tell you what, we'll help you pass this thing, but we, and we'll go even deeper on the cuts if you match us on revenue increases on taxes on, you know, our most fortunate and take the deficit down from $3.5 trillion.

to one trillion.

I mean,

you'd think

there'd just be some people in the middle here that would reach across the aisle and say, here's an idea.

Why don't we try and make ourselves really unpopular across the extremes on both sides?

But that just doesn't happen anymore.

Why should the Democrats help?

Why should the Democrats help?

Well, because if this passes as is, it not only is a budget buster and imposed the greatest transfer of wealth in history, it's also basically a move towards autocracy.

There's things in this bill, including, I mean, there's just so much, so many terrible things in this bill.

Nobody in the administration can be found in contempt of court, so they can never subpoena them and ask that, force them to come testify.

They're talking about putting up 150 million plus acres of national land for sale.

I mean,

there's so much ugly shit in this bill.

Yeah, there is.

So anyway,

I can't see it not passing, but I mean, I think it's

losing.

I'm telling you, he's losing the step.

He's losing the step.

I don't think he has a stranglehold that everybody thinks he does.

And I think there's a lot of signs of that, including yelling at CNN.

Like, what a waste of his time to yell at CNN.

You know, I just don't, I don't know.

We'll see.

We'll see.

We're not experts in this, but we'll see.

And we, we, the AI thing should absolutely not pass.

States should have the right to do that.

And again, we should have a national bill, but that's that would be, we don't have a national bill on anything having to do with tech.

Okay, let's go on a quick break.

We come back.

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Scott, we're back.

It's being called the biggest upset in modern New York City history.

I'm not sure about that, by one Democratic strategist, Zoran Mamdani, a 33-year-old state assemblyman from Queens, is poised to win the Senate City's Democratic primary for mayor.

His closest opponent, Andrew Cuomo, conceded Tuesday night pretty quickly.

It was a blowout.

Mamdani, a Democratic socialist, campaigned on New York's affordability crisis.

It was very canny.

He's a very canny guy.

Proposing free buses and a $30 minimum wage.

You must love that, Scott.

And higher taxes on millionaires and billionaires and corporations.

Young voters played a big role in this election with 25 to 34-year-olds comprising the largest share of early voters, although he won in surprising places, including with Jewish voters.

Mamdani now heads towards the general election this November, where he'll face current mayor Eric Adams and possibly Cuomo again, although Cuomo looks like it's pulled out because a loser doesn't win.

Cuomo is too smart

to lose again.

If the former governor runs as an independent, he's able to,

but others like Bill Ackman, as usual, because he's such a crank, thinks there should be a right-in candidate.

He's losing his mind because he didn't see this coming because he does he's always wrong about everything to do with politics.

He's a great investor, but otherwise, he's an idiot.

Let's listen to some of Mamdani's victory speech from Tuesday night.

We have won because New Yorkers have stood up for a city they can afford.

A city where they can do more than just struggle.

And it's where the mayor will use their power to reject Donald Trump's fascism.

To stop mass ICE agents from deporting our neighbors.

And to govern our city as a model for the Democratic Party.

Really interesting candidate.

I think even the Republicans acknowledge, and actually the smartest Republican, I know Bill Steppian was like, don't try to dismiss him, but MAGA is melting down over the win with Laura Loomer, Marjorie Taylor Greene, and others launching xenophobic attacks.

They're pretty grotesque.

So was Cuomo, by the way, that ad he did.

I don't think those work.

But talk about this lessons because this guy

could have been really stained by some of his previous tweets and worries about things he had said with Jewish voters, but a lot of Jewish voters voted for him, which is interesting.

Although people, I have had many people very upset by it at the same time.

I have to tell you,

both my sons were very excited and they zeroed in on the affordability part and about the sensible stuff that he was doing more than anything.

And also, he's a very attractive guy.

He's great at social media.

He sounds great.

He's handsome, et cetera, et cetera.

Scott, I'd love to hear.

I didn't talk to you about this at all.

So I'd love to hear your take.

This is a political earthquake, and I got to be honest, and this will piss off a lot of my friends.

I think it's hard not to be somewhat inspired by this.

And there's a lot of, you know, I personally, I couldn't help but feel a little bit inspired by some of it.

I love a younger generation of voters pushing back on money and the establishment.

I mean,

Bloomberg gave $8 million to Cuomo.

Dan Low, Bill Ackman, the Democratic political machine was run over by a populist, younger movement.

This was, and to a certain extent, it has echoes of the Trump campaign in terms of tactics focused on affordability and weaponized social media.

So while he was on social media, Cuomo was running TV ads.

But just to give you a sense for the difference in the campaigns, you know, look at their Instagram followings.

Look at the...

the platforms they weaponized and how they went about it.

It was polling just at 1% four and a half months ago.

And just as,

just as I think that Trump got Carney and the

Australian leader elected, I actually think Netanyahu got this guy elected.

I think that so many, I think Israel is so unpopular right now amongst.

We talked about this last show, the brand.

The brand.

It feels brutal.

The brand feels brutal.

There's just a general sense that Israel are no longer the good guys, they're the bad guys, and standing up to them, and he tapped into that anger, is a very, is a very effective strategy right now.

So can I ask you?

He didn't talk a lot about that, which was interesting.

Well, he tried to run from that stuff.

But he talked about affordability and he talked about the minimum wage.

One of the ideas, which

I don't know what I think about it,

the city-run grocery stores, I was like, probably not, but great, kind of interesting idea.

Everything, even though if I didn't agree with several of his things, I was like, I like your, I like your, the cuttier jib, like that you're actually thinking of kind of some interesting ideas and stuff.

So

let's talk about some of his policies.

So he wanted to talk about housing and he wants to talk about, okay, so fine, we have a housing problem, right?

One idea makes sense.

Constructing 200,000 units of housing over 10 years, you would need, you would want to activate and unleash the private sector with tax subsidies and private.

private housing construction.

You would want to want to motivate them to tax subsidies such that more housing development got built.

You want to do away with NIMBYism and make it easier to build.

At the same time, rent freezes do exactly the opposite.

They're populist bullshit because all you do when you freeze rent is you suppress the desire in the amount of money that goes into new development and new housing.

You suppress housing stock.

And it's just a transfer of wealth from entrants that can't find a place because there's no new housing to the people who were fortunate enough to move into a rent-stabilized place 40 years ago.

So it doesn't work.

Universal free childcare, I think it's a great idea and it shows economic return.

And I was happy to pay 13%

taxes in New York when I lived there because, and one of the reasons I was happy to do that was because one, it's an amazing city to live in.

And two, something that made me feel really good about the city is my son was speech delayed.

And the state had a state-sponsored, funded program to get these really wonderful young, mostly women, to come into our home and give my kid occupational therapy.

And these things pay off and they make people feel really good about government.

Now,

quote unquote, say you run grocery stores.

That's a, let me think, what's the term?

That's a fucking stupid idea.

These are.

I get that, but go ahead.

Go ahead.

Well, hold on.

But just, I mean, this shit makes no sense.

You want the customer service of the DMV with the merchandising of your produce by the IRS.

Grocery stores, the one business you would not want the government in is grocery because it's a low-margin business.

It's loco bodegas who are very good at what they do, mostly immigrants.

This makes absolutely no sense.

Now, taxing the wealthy.

Before you get to that one, can I just say there's some co-ops that work?

The idea is to get people who are poor better food, right?

So that's a great idea.

That's where I was thinking.

And there are certain co-ops that work really well.

There's certain innovative things to do in that area.

But I agree on the they're not run by the government.

No, but there's a way the government can encourage, say, a food co-op or healthier food.

But go ahead.

Go ahead.

Well, you could do that.

But if you want healthier, if you want healthier food outcomes, you should just put more money in the hands of poor people so they can find their own food and find and endorse the groceries.

Grocery stores operate at like razor-thin margins.

The notion the government's going to figure out how to do this better than anyone else is ridiculous.

So minimum wage.

Free bus, fine.

I love $30 an hour minimum wage.

I think New York should lead the way on that.

I think it's a fantastic idea.

You need to see studies around raising taxes on the wealthiest because what he's talking about is raising taxes 2% on people making over a certain amount of money.

Those people would now have a tax rate, an effective tax rate, including federal, state, local, and this additional tax of about 52%.

At some point, raising taxes actually does exactly the opposite.

It reduces the tax rolls.

In terms of, I was quite bothered, quite frankly, by what I feel were some, I won't say anti-Semitic, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, but some anti-Israel positioning that

in his background that made me uncomfortable.

Having said that, what I said to my friends last night in a group chat is, I don't really care what a mayor thinks about Israel.

I don't, I want them to pick up the trash and operate the subway.

And I don't think it's,

sure, you want to look at their view on international affairs and New York punches above its weight class.

But at the end of the day, it's an operational role.

And I got to be honest, I love the idea of young people and a new generation of youth.

And by the way, this is a form of revolution.

This is young people saying, whatever you folks are doing, the establishment isn't working.

And we're going, we're picking someone new.

And he weaponized newer mediums.

He was very good on staying on message and affordability.

He's a very attractive candidate.

I think who's more freaked out about this is not the GOP, but the Democratic establishment.

As they should be.

Let me, before you, before we move on to that, on his statements, he did go a long way to try to fix that in a lot of ways.

And I think one of the things he could do is be

a lot, like give him the minute to try to do something that brings people together, right?

Don't assume that what he said as a Queens thing that he might, I think he does understand that he would be the mayor for all of New York.

And what to me is interesting is, so you have someone like Daniel Lurie in San Francisco, who I wouldn't say is conservative, but he's much more centrist, right?

He's not conservative.

And this guy is this.

One of the things I find exciting, whatever you think of this, is voters are speaking.

And, you know, the minute, of course, this happened, my mom goes, I'm selling my apartment in Europe because the socialists, because that's what's on Fox News on friggin, like, whatever,

whatever.

It's so racist over there at Fox News.

Can I just tell you they were like, they were, you know, this Zohan movie?

They're like, he's Zohan.

I'm like, Zohan was an Israeli commando.

And by the way, he rocked.

Like, are you, you fucking idiots, it's all about rich people trying to manipulate an election and make.

people of color hate each other.

Like it was like, they just don't even understand their references, but fine.

But of course, my mom immediately said, like, I'm going to sell my partner, which she's not doing.

And all I said to her is like, The voters decided what they wanted.

Every time Trump wins, you say the voters decided what they wanted.

Well, they did.

And she's like, oh, that's a good point.

Like, the voters wanted this.

It's not some young people being stupid.

These are the voters.

You complain about them voting.

They vote the way they want to vote.

So respect their vote.

Like, whether it's San Francisco bringing in Lurie, whether it's whoever it is, like, it doesn't matter.

This is their vote and they count.

And the Democratic establishment trying to shove Cuomo down our throats, and that's a gross thing to think about.

What an a repulsive like thing they did here.

Like so cynical, so repulsive, and so not listening to voters who matter, who really matter.

Yeah, he's going to run up against some blocks there.

So first off, it's not a fit of complete.

No.

There's, if you look at the numbers, I think there's about 4 million registered voters.

He got about 400,000 votes.

So he literally got 10% of the registered vote.

There is an opportunity for Eric Adams, potentially, if enough people.

Yeah, he's got his own issues.

This is something, this was a real anomaly,

but it's not, I, I, you know,

the, the speculation sites are saying it has a 70% chance of winning right now in the general, but on the whole, Look,

America has to deal with the fact that

the following, in my view, young people have had it.

Young people have said, okay, this all, I see all of this prosperity.

I see all of this obsession with wealth.

I feel like every streaming media program, whether it's sirens or friends and neighbors and social media, is just

wealth porn being rubbed in people's faces all fucking day long, where it's impossible to feel like,

Okay,

I'm only making $150,000 a year and living in Brooklyn and I'm broke.

And every day it's just being shoved in my face that I am failing.

And it is so godly.

I guess the rich guys are at the trough.

And meanwhile, Bloomberg's giving $8 million to a candidate who resigned from office in disgrace.

I got to be honest.

A lot of what this guy has said is deeply troubling to me.

Having said that, I like a new generation of voters in a populist way just rolling right fucking over wealthy people who think they can buy incumbency.

I thought it was, you know,

he is not my candidate.

Some of his ideas make no sense and they will not get through the assembly or whoever the governing body is.

Like Cuomo, his ideas, he doesn't even live here.

Like it doesn't even live in New York, which is even worse.

He was not a good candidate.

A good candidate.

I was supporting, you know, anyone I support means they're not going to win.

I was supporting a guy named Whitney Tilson, who's just a blocking and tackling smart guy and a good man and good on the issues.

This guy captured lightning in a bottle.

I think young people are saying we're fed up.

I think this guy absolutely weaponized social media.

And the fact that someone can get this far on ideas, on sheer force of character, he was fucking genius.

For the rent freeze thing, which by the way is a shitty idea, he jumped into the freezing water.

You're not going to see Cuomo do that.

Did you see the halal, the $10 halal?

These are the four bills that are sitting in the city council right now, which would give these vendors their own permits and make your halal more affordable.

But Eric Adams hasn't said a single word about them.

If you owned the permit, then how much would you charge for the plate?

$7.

$8.

Would you rather pay $10 for a plate of halal or $8?

$8.

$8.

I think $8 the way to go.

If I was the mayor, I'd be working with city council from day one to make halal eight bucks again.

Oh, how would it taste?

Tastes like $10, but it should be $8.

That was fantastic.

It was so smart way to talk about affordability.

It was like, it was so substantive

in the silliest way, but it was hysterically funny and so enjoyable.

One, two, two very quick things that I'd love to get your thoughts on, then we got to move on.

But immigrants, there's a story right now.

Immigrants are driving population growth across America.

This guy feels like America, like where it's going.

I don't care.

You can hold on to your white America all you want, but it is not.

That is not what's happening in our country.

He appealed to a lot more people.

He appealed to the numbers are so interesting of who he appealed to.

He wouldn't.

The winner here, this is the one guy, I have to say, Brad Lander, who if

the Democrats are serious about someone with experience, and sorry, the New York Times, if you were serious, you would have backed Brad Lander, right?

Yep.

Controller.

Greg Consolation or whatever you call it, speech.

What did he do?

I have to tell you, he and they

cross-referenced each other.

He hugged Mom Donny.

He hugged him.

They crossed, said, vote for each other,

rank each other one and two, depending on what you want.

Then he, and he backed him.

He should put Lander in an office if he becomes insulted.

He will like deputy mayor, whatever.

This guy took a risk.

He's Jewish.

He's like, I've talked to him.

I don't think he gave him that cover.

I thought Brad Lander,

and then he became exciting because he got arrested.

He's interesting.

He made

Mamdani more safe for people who are worried.

And

Mandani, Mamdani made Lander more interesting in some weird way.

So I love that pair.

I love that pairing of the two of them.

It's an interesting, it's an interesting peanut butter and chocolate.

Yeah.

If it's a choice between

I actually like Andrew Cuomo.

I met him on Bill Mara.

I actually thought he was, he was a, he seemed like a competent, decent man to me.

I think he would have been a competent, decent mayor.

But if the decision was between a candidate backed by the establishment, in my opinion, who

looked at the mayor's mansion as rehab for his his political reputation such that in 18 to 24 months, he could enter into consensual hallucination with the staff and announce his run for presidency, which is, I think, exactly what he was planning.

Or a 33-year-old that energizes young people and brings some fresh new ideas, some of them naive, some of them won't work.

I'm cool with the 33-year-old.

I think this is somewhat, I got to be, I think this is somewhat inspiring.

His viewpoint and some of his rhetoric around Israel, I find deeply offensive and disturbing.

Having said that, I don't really care what Americ thinks about that shit.

And a lot of my friends will get angry, but that's not their role.

Their role is to get to make sure the subways are moving on time.

Affordability, I'm all for it.

Having said that, I left New York in 2011 because I couldn't afford to live there.

I had two kids.

I was working my ass off.

I was making what I thought was a lot of money.

And I remember saying to my partner, I'm sick of feeling middle class while I make all of this money.

And we moved.

I don't think anyone has a birthright to live in New York.

Having said that, if there are programs to maintain the diversity and the viscosity and let ensure that young people continue to populate these great companies by creating, reducing the NIMBYism regulation, unleashing the private sector in terms of new housing development, I'm all for it.

And the universal or, you know, effectively universal pre-K and $30 or minimum dollar minimum wage to set a tone to inspire the rest of the nation, recognizing if you pay people $30 minimum wage, yeah, some places will go out of business, but on the whole, it'll be stimulative for the economy.

I'm down for it.

It is time.

It is time for these fucking older Democrats to get on an ice flow and give some new people a shot.

Let them do their dumb ideas.

They're good ideas.

They're fresh.

Perfect was not on the menu.

This guy was not perfect for me on a lot of levels, but

I got to be honest.

I know, I knew you were.

He's also a handsome man.

You also like a handsome man, don't you?

Guilty.

Guilty.

Guilty.

Yeah.

They just did a profile of his wife who's also pretty cool.

But it's time for a new generation of leaders representing young people who, for the first time in our nation's history, aren't doing as well as their parents.

It is time for the next.

It is time to shift.

You need to get on an ice flow, Scott.

It is time for the next.

It is time for the next generation.

So I hope that this guy appoints really talented, thoughtful people, that he takes some of the rhetoric down and that he's more thoughtful about some of his economic plans.

The GOP is trying to make him the face of the Democratic Party.

That shows how fucking old they are.

That's the thing.

I was like, be careful, my friends.

Like, oh, the Democrats should take notes on how this guy ran out.

I know, but one of the things, the GOP rushing to do this, it's not working with young people.

I can tell you that.

It's not.

They can see with their eyes, right?

What an interesting and attractive candidate this guy is.

If they make him the face of the Democratic Party, they're going to lose everything because they're old, creaky men.

But just one additional piece of data.

And I haven't reconciled what this means, but this was sort of champagne socialism.

You realize that Cuomo beat Momdani by 13 points if they made less than 50 grand.

The lower income segment broke very hard for Cuomo, and it was middle and upper income that broke for Momdani.

I mean, it's just very, it's very interesting what happened here and how it's going to impact national politics.

But the takeaway I get is that it is younger people are done and they're ready for new faces and they're weaponizing new mediums.

And I think the best thing this kid could do

if he gets through the general is immediately, publicly listen to and meet with Bloomberg and meet with Jewish leaders and focus on blocking and tackling and everyday things that impact everyday Americans and our everyday New Yorkers.

Shows he can work.

This is this idea of Sarah McBride.

There's all these very exciting candidates.

Imperfect allies.

Imperfect allies.

That's the way to go.

I love that term.

I hear that a lot.

All right.

Let's go on a quick break.

We come back.

We'll talk about Trump already considering Fed chair replacements.

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Terms apply.

Scott, we're back with more news.

Let's go through these quick.

President Trump reportedly wants to name a Fed chair Jerome Powell's replacement as early as September, October.

Powell's term runs for another 11 months, a transition period typically lasts just three to four months.

Trump's already on it.

Listen to a clip of him at the NATO summit, responding to a question about interviewing candidates.

I know within three or four people who are all going to pick.

I mean, he goes out pretty soon, fortunately, because I think he's terrible.

Yeah, the year is not too bad, Trump.

You can't force him out.

The president is reportedly considering several candidates, including former Fed Governor Kevin morsh and world bank president david malpass treasury secretary scott besant is reportedly also being pitched uh by allies um very quickly why is he doing this well he just wants to neuter him and he wants the governors to have a bigger say uh but uh chairman powell will go down and one of the greatest economic economic professors and economic theory will constantly cite Jerome Powell as somebody who is a steady hand.

And

the next Democratic president will give him the national medal of freedom and it'll be well deserved yeah i agree there that we have it well trump you're just again weakness on trump's behalf i feel like he's he can't have everything he wants so he throws a little hissy he's he's doing a lot of hissies lately um hissies aren't a good look for an old man by the way um another one uh the ftc has agreed to approve the merger of advertising giants omnicom and interpublic group after the companies agreed not to collude on politically motivated ad boycotts because you know we don't love the first amendment anymore while the 13.5 billion dollar merger will still allow the company's clients to choose from whether they want

to advertise on certain platforms, which is their right, by the way.

It's kind of so stupid that they had to agree to this dumb thing.

Speaking of which, liberal advocacy organization Media Matters has sued the FDC, claiming the agency waged a campaign of retribution on behalf of President Trump and Elon Musk.

The agency started investigating Media Matters last month over whether it illegally colluded with other groups to boycott advertising on X.

Again, I'm glad they did that.

I think, you know, it's really kind of grotesque that

they aren't letting advertisers decide where they, even if they're talking together.

Who cares?

It's the First Amendment.

I don't know what else to say about these two cases.

You may have some thoughts about Omnicom and Interpublic doing this.

They just had to kind of do it just to get a thing approved, I assume.

Omnicom and IPG

tying up, it's literally the second lamest wedding of the weekend.

I mean,

these are unimpa, the reality is, and I'm a can and

they're unimportant companies.

Yeah.

Palantir will lose or gain the market cap of these companies.

That's soaring.

They're just not, they're a shadow of themselves.

The conglomerate model no longer works.

1.5% of GDP goes to marketing.

And it's all every year, more and more of it goes to the guys we talk more about.

And these folks, the fact that the FTC wanted to get in the way of this merger was insane.

These guys, this is about survival.

These guys need to consolidate, cut back office, do some spins.

Figure interesting.

It's tactical and not that important, but it's interesting.

Publishing has actually done a better job than Omnicom, IPG, or WPP by embracing technology.

They have Epsilon, they have Sapient.

They've done actually a pretty good job.

And now their market cap is worth more than I think the other three combined.

But this is an industry that we talk about as if it's important.

And it's not.

It employs a decent number of people.

The ad industry played a really important role in the advancement of women.

It was one of the initial industries to have female CEOs, Shelly Lazarus.

The character that Peggy plays in Mad Men was actually a really important woman.

It was one of the industries that figured out and elevated women to their natural ability as opposed to,

let me put it this way.

The glass ceiling was still there, but it was higher in the communications industry.

It's been an important industry for the United States, but these companies need to consolidate just to survive.

The idea of, I can't imagine a worse job than being a salesperson for X right now.

Yeah.

Well, speaking of which, what do you think about this idea that the FDC is?

This guy who runs the FDC is such a clown.

It's just ridiculous.

He's like a, he's like a

errand boy for Trump, from Daddy Trump.

Not for Trump, for Musk.

Musk's hands is so far up his ass.

If he opens his mouth, you can see Elon's palm right now.

The notion that you are,

the notion that you are, what about that, that black hole on fire?

Come visit us at our wedding.

If I was on a honeymoon with Jeff Bezos, you would absolutely show up, I have no doubt.

Okay.

Anyways,

it's insane.

Yeah.

You're saying free speech is your ability to say things, but it's not free speech when you decide you don't want to advertise on a platform.

Yeah.

They're allowed to.

I don't care if they have lunch and all decide to do it together.

Who cares?

You know, here, Linda, Linda Yaccarino, make a better platform.

Don't have a shitty platform.

Elon, sell better cars.

Sell better cars.

Perhaps you will do well.

Otherwise, you know, step off letting advertisers do what they want.

And by the way, they're already, as you say, suffering.

They should do whatever it takes to do well.

Correct?

Right?

Well, okay.

So the actual law is a boycott would only be illegal if the companies involved colluded with each other to obtain lower prices.

And that's not what they're doing.

No, they're just saying

they're basically saying as a service to their, to their advertisers, this is not a safe safe place.

You need to be careful here.

And until they make it more brand safe, you shouldn't advertise here.

That is entirely legal.

Yeah.

Anyway, one interesting case, though, I have to say, I was really struck by both Meta and Anthropic struck legal wins against the book authors this week.

The two companies faced similar suits.

In both cases, federal judge ruled that the training of AI models on copyrighted books was fair use and transformative.

However, both judges noted the case were limited in scope.

The judge in Meta's case said the plaintiffs, which included Sarah Silverman, quote, made the wrong arguments and failed to prove that copying harmed the market for authors.

And then Sam Altman,

my friend Casey Newton and Kevin Russ's podcast, Hard Fork, pushed back really hard on the New York Times and saying, I like the New York Times, but they're wrong about this.

So there's some real aggression here on these legal wins.

I'd love to know what you thought about this, too.

They were, it's super, copyright is super complex.

And I guess one judge said, if you buy the book, you've done enough if you actually buy the book instead of steal it, I guess.

I was disappointed and surprised.

And I thought, okay,

we've said for a while, this is a moment in time where creators need to really circle the wagons around their IP and at least participate in some of the extraordinary shareholder gains that this industry is garnering by not actually creating content, but crawling content and then using machine to offer it up in interesting ways.

And so this, to me, was disappointing and

surprising.

And I don't understand the mechanics of the legal ruling, but I would have hoped that they would have pushed back and said,

you know, I was hoping that there'd just be more respect for

IP, because at some point, this just reminds me very much of back to the old days when Google figured out a way to crawl data and give the content providers two cents by sending them traffic they couldn't monetize.

And they got 98 cents on the dollar for curating information in a really interesting way that other people had

created.

If you look at all of the models here, it's just all moving towards an asset-like model where you don't create content,

you crawl it, slice it, dice it, serve it.

And at some point, that's going to be bad for the overall economy when there's just no money in the business of fact-checking and content creation.

And

anyways, I was disappointed to see this ruling.

What do you think?

Yeah, I need to learn more about it.

I don't understand it.

I don't understand it because if they are able to do this,

it's a real problem for authors.

There's a great piece if people want to read in the Atlantic this week about AI upending publishing, which I thought was really smart.

So

we need to learn more about this because it's an area we should know more about.

But yeah, I was surprised by both these rulings, but they're doing little jigs over at Meta, I guess.

But it's not over.

I'll tell you that.

It's not over for open AI.

It's not over for any of them in terms of legal struggles.

They'll have a little bit.

All right.

One more quick break.

We'll be back for predictions.

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Let's get after it.

Okay, Scott, let's hear your prediction.

What is your prediction?

I went back and looked through

the headlines kind of the few days following 9-11 or our entry into Iraq or Afghanistan.

And other than the bin Laden raid, where the headlines ended up to be

the first 24, 48, and 72 hours ended up to actually being quite accurate.

In every other instance,

what comes out six or 12 months later is that we,

what came out 24 hours later was just not that accurate.

And so my prediction isn't that interesting.

It's just that everything we think we know about these attacks in Iran, we don't know.

And also, I have never felt a lack of certainty or confidence in the information coming out of our intelligence community and out of the White House,

because it feels as if they're...

Their priorities aren't giving the American public the truth, but just signaling macho.

And I don't know if we're going to find out that, okay, all of the nuclear material was actually transported out or.

That's the worrisome thing.

That's the one they are that they one of the things they're not doing is saying they are sort of trying to punt on that because I think that's what happened.

Like if you look at a lot of the headlines, they won't say anything about whether the stuff was moved.

Yeah, I interviewed this really

interesting guy from the Carnegie Endowment, Karim Sajapur, I believe his name is.

And, you know, it just military intervention in the Middle East, the only thing you know about it is it has just so many unintended consequences.

And

this whole thing feels so to date, just so performative on behalf, you know,

we attack, feels very performative.

Iran responds in what feels like a very performative way.

So it's kind of a non-prediction prediction in that is whatever you think happened, the only thing I'm fairly certain on, that's not what happened.

It's just.

Do you feel like you're in a Mission Impossible movie where the uranium is on the move and Ethan Hunt has to get it?

I feel like I'm in the Truman show.

Oh, see, I feel like Ethan Hunt's on the hunt for the uranium that's somewhere in a tiny ball that he just puts in his pocket.

But think about, think about this situation.

It's an 86-year-old theocrat who knows he could be killed at any moment in a bunker.

They've had to shut down the internet because they can't communicate with each other.

And at the same time, we have Netanyahu, who is running to stay out of prison.

And he's decided the way he does that is to be on a constant war footing, pulverizing and creating what is arguably at this point unnecessary death and destruction in Gaza that gets likely played a role in the mayoral election in New York.

I know.

I mean,

or the fact that we probably wouldn't have gone into Iran to bomb these nuclear sites had the Ukrainian army been not been so successful against defanging Russia, who would have still been in Syria and created.

He was going to do that in 24 hours, Scott.

I mean, 24 hours.

The game theory here and the scenarios are just so crazy.

And what I wonder, I know the military does this.

Is there anyone with like a big whiteboard in the Defense Department or the Secretary Hexeth that is actually gaming all of this out?

Do they actually think through this stuff?

Gaming.

He couldn't play like war.

Actually, that wasn't good.

I'll do another quick one.

I'll do this.

I'll repeat the prediction.

Reed Hastings going on the board of Anthropic.

We are going to have an Anthropic Netflix joint venture that will compete with TikTok.

I like it.

I like it.

Yeah.

I saw some other analysts note that, that TikTok's got to reach down into the YouTube, in the TikTok and YouTube categories.

They've got to start really, you know, the growth isn't going to come from their regular business, but they have to really do both YouTube and small stuff.

And I thought that was, I was like, oh, Scott said that already.

I already knew that.

Anyway, good one.

All right.

We want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe this week.

This week on Prof G Conversation, Scott spoke with Ian Bremer, the president and founder of the Eurasia Group about Iran, the role President Trump plays, and what could come next on the global stage.

Let's listen to a clip.

The backdrop on Trump is he's not gotten his deals done.

He's really itching.

to make something happen.

He wants to show that he can win on the international stage.

And Iran suddenly was where he was putting a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of attention.

So that's the background for him.

The backdrop of Iran is that they have lost more influence, both regionally and globally, than pretty much anybody over the last year.

Interesting, except for Elon Musk.

Okay, that's the shows.

Thanks for listening to Pivot.

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Scott, read us out.

Today's show is produced by Larry Neyman, Zoe Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver.

Ernie Intertod engineered this episode.

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Meil Severo, Dan Shalon, and Kate Gallagher.

Yashak Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.

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We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

The wedding is going to span three days, Kara, because when you're worth $215 billion, why have a reception when you can have a small economic summit?

That's no good.

Venice is hosting Bezos, where locals protest over tourism.

It's like complaining about traffic while driving a monster truck to the complaint meeting.

All right, on that, bye, everybody.

See you next week.