China's EV Power Play, AI Career Choices, and Time Travel

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Speaker 30 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher.

Speaker 31 And I'm Scott Galloway.

Speaker 30 So get excited, Scott, because it's a special show with Pivot listeners calling in and asking us their questions and all sorts of topics. We love talking to the people, Scott.
I think it's really fun.

Speaker 30 Largely because our pivot listeners are really smart. Two, because it gives us questions we didn't think of.
And three,

Speaker 30 because it forces us to be social. Let's jump right in and get to our first listener call.

Speaker 30 Hello, caller. We hear you have a fun stat about your pivot listening.
Who are we talking to? Where are you calling from? And what's your question?

Speaker 31 Hey there, Karen Scott. How are you doing?

Speaker 30 Good. How are you doing?

Speaker 31 I'm well.

Speaker 32 Yes, my name is Felipe.

Speaker 32 And my stat is that since I am a nomadic designer, have been for about three and a half years, meaning that I work pretty much everywhere in the world, I have listened to you guys while exploring 27 different countries.

Speaker 19 Whoa.

Speaker 30 Okay.

Speaker 30 All right. So where are you now? Where are you calling from?

Speaker 32 Yes. Yes.
I am now currently in Bangkok. It is just past midnight.
So.

Speaker 30 Oh, my God. How's I love Thailand so much? It's one of my favorite places.
Super fun. Yeah.
All right. What is your question?

Speaker 32 So my question is that so, well, a little bit of a, this could get a little philosophical, but that's okay.

Speaker 30 We can have it.

Speaker 32 It seems like the general excitement around new technologies and product launches have kind of faded in the last two decades.

Speaker 32 I mean, I remember being on the literal edge of my seat when watching the keynotes for the first iPhone, the MacBook Air when Steve took it out of the Manila envelope, the Model 3 launch, and so on.

Speaker 32 So nowadays, it seems like we watch these new product announcements with either skepticism or just straight up indifference.

Speaker 32 Almost like we've seen so much new tech so frequently for so long that we're a little desensitized to it.

Speaker 32 So my question is, do you think that it's possible, either at an individual level or collectively, for us to get back to that childlike wonderment and enthusiasm for

Speaker 32 new technology that seems to have deflated over time?

Speaker 30 That's a great question. I'll start because I was at all those events physically, which

Speaker 30 it was also exciting to go to them. Let me say it was it was like a party, especially the Apple ones.

Speaker 30 You know, Microsoft's were less fun, I'll be honest with you, and Bill Gates wasn't as good on stage. But Steve Jobs presenting was just, it was, it was magical.
It really was. And it was really fun.

Speaker 30 It was a sense of theater, a sense of show. The products were always cool, and you hadn't thought of them.
They managed to keep everything under wraps, too.

Speaker 30 That was part of it, is you didn't know what he was going to pull out of his pocket or pull out of a manila envelope.

Speaker 30 And so, the sense of theatricality and the slowness of development, I think, in the social media age, when everybody knows everything that's going to happen before it happens, you don't get excited about it.

Speaker 30 And so, I think it's really hard, you know,

Speaker 30 even if you're like unveiling an invisibility cloak or something like crazy, to that people don't feel that same sense of wonder about this stuff.

Speaker 30 And they're less magicians than they are, just they want to make a lot of money kind of stuff. And so I can't think of a recent product launch that I've been like, oh my God, I can't believe it.

Speaker 30 You know, I don't know. Scott, what about you?

Speaker 31 I'm just waiting for the product release of AirPods that costs $300 and lose themselves automatically.

Speaker 31 That's the product I'm waiting for.

Speaker 31 Every day is new product introduction for me based on what my kid tries to convince me to buy him.

Speaker 31 But I don't, I've never really. The thing that always struck me, I was a consultant for a long time and I stole basically

Speaker 31 The it struck me that Apple basically decided they were a luxury brand and took a page out of the book of fashion shows for high-end couture brands.

Speaker 31 And basically I saw Apple product launches, not as product launches, but as fashion shows. And they had hot people, highly choreographed in a beautiful environment.

Speaker 31 And fashion shows are basically eight to 12 minutes and exceptionally choreographed.

Speaker 31 And that's how I thought of that Apple basically decided they were going high-end with vertical distribution and fashion shows for marketing.

Speaker 30 What's been magical for you, Scott? It's been magical. Well, something that was released and you were like, wow.

Speaker 31 The new AI products, the video products, production products from Google, I thought were pretty interesting. The Gemini stuff, that to me seemed pretty, the AI stuff is pretty dramatic.

Speaker 31 It's funny, the one place I think that there could be more magic and he hasn't done it. Actually, it's a missing piece from Open AI.

Speaker 31 You know, the only thing I've seen is him and Johnny Ive about to blow each other. I mean, talking about their new acquisition, their new partnership.

Speaker 31 It strikes me that Sam Altman should be throwing a crazy event to just highlight all the unbelievable things that you can do with AI.

Speaker 31 That'll be the, I bet that's the next arms race in terms of events.

Speaker 30 Interesting. I don't know if any of them has the style of Steve Jobs.
I mean, what do you think, Felipe? What have you been really excited when you see?

Speaker 30 I think you just know about it before everything comes out. So there's no wonder.

Speaker 30 There's no way, like when literally when Steve Jobs pulled out, you didn't know what the fuck they were going to pull out of their pockets, right? What have you been excited about?

Speaker 32 Yeah, no, that's true.

Speaker 32 I mean, when Steve took out the iPod Nano from his coin pocket, that was just like, I remember gasping audibly in my university when I watched it.

Speaker 30 And people did there.

Speaker 32 Absolutely. But I mean, you are right with social media and leaks and

Speaker 32 we always have so many like Photoshop renders, et cetera, before it comes out. So when it finally does, it's like, oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 37 But it could also be a plateau of technology.

Speaker 32 Like the last many iPhones have just been, you know, slightly faster, slightly better cameras and whatnot. But I think that Scott is right in that.

Speaker 32 Johnny might actually bring some of that magic to OpenAI, at least I hope.

Speaker 30 You You know, one of the things that was hard for Tim Cook after Steve Jobs, when he did those shows, he was just the one. And he'd bring out like Coldplay or, you know, whoever the heck he hired,

Speaker 30 whatever, whatever celebrity he hired along with it. And there'd always be a celebrity around with him.

Speaker 30 But then they sort of, with Tim, because he's not nearly as charming, they brought out all of them, right? And it sort of loses its, yeah, the ensemble thing.

Speaker 30 And they're not, none of them are particularly interesting, right?

Speaker 30 And so I have, I went to one recently, and I have to say, I was like checking my phone. I was not, it wasn't as like a wow kind of thing.

Speaker 30 They still are very good on the movies and the way it looked. I can't think of any product that maybe movies today, maybe.

Speaker 30 I don't know.

Speaker 31 Yeah, it's funny. I think, I think movie premieres and car, like I think of auto, the auto show was the kind of original big product release, right? And then I have been to a product.

Speaker 31 Back in the 90s when I was running Red Envelope and the only place you could sell products, you're too young for this, Felipe.

Speaker 31 Kara can tell you about this because she's much, much older than you or me. But

Speaker 31 the AOL had these big events back in DC.

Speaker 31 And I remember Steve Case and Bob Pittman announcing like, you know, their new browser or whatever.

Speaker 31 And then they announced chat rooms where, you know, much middle-aged accounts could pretend their name was Chad and they were surfers or something. But

Speaker 31 that was the last product kind of thing I went to. And it was fun.
It was nice.

Speaker 30 I don't know. We'll have to see if there's something.
I think a lot of the theatrics have gone to politics now. Right.
And even that's getting tired, but I don't know.

Speaker 30 Anyway, we really appreciate your call, Felipe. It's a great question when you think about it.
It takes me down memory road. It wasn't, you know, used to be more fun.
Life used to be more fun.

Speaker 33 Let's hope we can get back to it at some point.

Speaker 32 Thank you guys so much.

Speaker 34 It was great meeting you.

Speaker 30 Thank you. Thank you for the keep listening to us across the world.
We appreciate it.

Speaker 31 Of course we'll do.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Thanks, Felipe.

Speaker 32 Bye, guys.

Speaker 30 Okay, Scott, let's move on to our next caller. This is a question about parenting and how to navigate conversations around porn.
Scott, I'm sick of talking to you about your porn use.

Speaker 30 Hello, Carrie from Maine. Let's hear your question and welcome.

Speaker 38 Hi, thanks so much for taking my question.

Speaker 38 Yeah, I was just curious how you both navigated conversations in your family with your kids about pornography. I've got two young boys.
We're kind of in the pre-adolescent phase.

Speaker 38 And my husband and I are trying to figure out how to talk with them about it. Porn is just so much more ubiquitous than it it was when, you know, when we were younger.

Speaker 38 And yeah, I'm just really curious how you guys navigate those conversations.

Speaker 30 I can start. Again, as I said, I say, Scott, put down the phone.

Speaker 30 But, you know, I think it's difficult.

Speaker 30 I have two boys, older boys. The three-year-old is not at that point yet.

Speaker 30 But I did talk to him about it. I was like, it's everywhere.

Speaker 30 I'd rather not go through your phones, you know, and figure out what you're doing. That's one way of doing it is monitoring it and putting different strictures on it.

Speaker 30 So they, you know, you can do that through all kinds of Verizon has a thing. I was mostly with time was the thing I was monitoring more and actually stopping them from using it as much time.

Speaker 30 And of course, porn takes time, apparently.

Speaker 30 But one of the things I did is I just flat out talked about it. I was like, look, there's a ton of porn on here.
I get, and not just from just porn sites, kids sending each other stuff.

Speaker 30 That was one of the things I was much more concerned about. I was, a girl sent Louis something and I was sort of shocked.

Speaker 30 I was, you know, I was like, I can't, he showed it to me and he, I was like, oh dear, that's not, and it wasn't porny. It just was not what I would want my daughter sending, that's for sure.

Speaker 30 Um, and so I have long talks with him about it and, and about the usage of it. And I was trying not to be sex negative, but I definitely was like, this is more addictive.
It takes your time.

Speaker 30 It's desensitizing.

Speaker 30 It's not good for your relationships over a long time. So I just faced it head on.
I don't know, Scott, you have the, you're in the right age area now for that issue.

Speaker 31 Yeah. So Carrie, I navigated the conversation around the important topic of porn, the way the Hindenburg navigated its way into landing in New Jersey.

Speaker 19 So the truth has a nice ring to it.

Speaker 31 My

Speaker 31 partner demanded that I have the sex talk with my then 14 or 15 year old son. So I took him to the beach and thought I was going to have this very like hallmark moment.

Speaker 31 And I said, it's time to have the sex talk and I want to talk about porn. And before I even got the words out, he screamed louder than I've ever heard him scream.

Speaker 19 No.

Speaker 31 Like, he's like, no,

Speaker 31 no, no, no, no, no, no. And I'm like, I'm like, it's okay.
We can talk about this stuff. And he's like, do we have to?

Speaker 40 I really don't want.

Speaker 31 He seemed traumatized by the idea of the conversation. So my entire approach to talking to my sons about sex is I make them watch all eight seasons of Game of Thrones with me.

Speaker 31 It's got everything. It's literally got everything.

Speaker 4 It's got gay people.

Speaker 31 It's got threesomes. It's got sex.
It's got good relationships, bad relationships, bondage,

Speaker 31 really aspirational

Speaker 31 gay characters, Prince of Dorn, Pedro Pascal.

Speaker 31 And then around porn, what I've tried to couch it in other things.

Speaker 31 I talk about the notion that you don't, you want to, that you have only a certain amount of mojo. I say you have only a certain amount of energy and you don't want to waste it on bad calories.

Speaker 31 You have only a certain amount of focus, time, and attention. You want to spend it on the two or three things that are most important in terms of your studying.
And then I also try and slip in.

Speaker 31 And also,

Speaker 31 you want to be able to,

Speaker 31 I said this. I said, the reason I met your mom, who is much more attractive and much more higher character than me, was I really wanted to meet a woman and I was willing to take risks.

Speaker 31 And I tell them, I told my oldest son, if I'd had porn, I'm not sure I would have had that same mojo and fire to want to meet women. And that anything that reduces your mojo and your fire

Speaker 31 is a courage killer. And what I've said to my boys a bunch of time is that porn is a courage killer because it's on demand.
And what Kara says about it being, you know, a terrible facsimile

Speaker 31 of what you're supposed to expect in relationships. And I say to my boys, and this is what I embarrassed to say, I'm saying, it's good to be horny.

Speaker 31 Channeling your sexual desire to making you a better man, wanting to make you stronger, dress better, smell good, shower, develop a rap, endure rejection.

Speaker 31 I'm worried that men are looking for low-risk ways to engage in what they see as a relationship with porn and AI.

Speaker 43 So I try to position it to my boys.

Speaker 31 You only have a limited amount of time with your boys. You got to keep it consistent and crisp, I find, because they just tune me out at least.

Speaker 30 Yeah, one of the things that's important to think about, look, it's been around since time immemorial, whether it was magazines and then it was Skinemax, which is Scott's and my favorite station,

Speaker 30 or whatever, videotapes. Everyone has tried to get or going to places, right? Because there were physical places people went.
It's not something you can stop. It's sort of the same thing.

Speaker 30 Don't try to drink, don't drink at all. Like, it's just not going to happen.
And you yourself, if you've done it,

Speaker 30 you can't say, don't do it. It's very, you know, it's, it's, everybody experiments and does stuff like that.
I think the very difference is, one, it's much more addictive.

Speaker 30 It's much more accessible and it's much more specific, right? You can get anything, right?

Speaker 30 And so it moves people down a highway of something basic, you know, Chalk Van Straw porn versus something really sick, right?

Speaker 30 And that's really the problem is that it can start to get very dark very quickly and very accessible. And I think that's

Speaker 30 the way I, more did it was I restricted their time, right? Like you could only be on the phone this much time.

Speaker 30 And one of the things my, and it was the time suckers that I thought about more than than anything else. And of course, porn is like that, whether, you know, and we make jokes.

Speaker 30 There, you know, I watch it on threads or Instagram. I watch something called food porn, which is like, ha ha ha.
Like we do porn, everything.

Speaker 30 And they just show different restaurant settings and doing cool things. And I watch it.
It's like quite addictive. It's not the same thing.

Speaker 30 But the other thing is encouraging them to do things outside of the phone. Like again, put down the phone.

Speaker 30 My one of my sons himself, he bought one of those timer boxes that he put the phone in and locked it.

Speaker 30 And it wouldn't open for five hours or whatever it was, which I thought was really, this is something Alex did.

Speaker 30 I thought that was great because he wasn't getting his work done because it was so easy to fall in. So time is the way I did it versus everyone's going to look at porn, but it is much darker.

Speaker 30 And I would not, I don't know what I'm going to do with Saul.

Speaker 30 I honestly don't. It's going to be a much different world than my older kids.
Carrie, are you going to talk to them soon or is there an age that you, or do you split it between you and your husband?

Speaker 38 I mean my 10 year old and I have been very open. We've had lots of talks about you know I've tried to just be really open with him about lots of different things including sex.

Speaker 19 At 10.

Speaker 30 Well, I mean, yeah. They're way out.

Speaker 38 You know, even they're getting exposed to things so, so early on the bus, on kids who have phones.

Speaker 38 So I'm trying just to be really preemptive about it and just having those conversations be really open and flexible. Yeah, it's tough.

Speaker 30 True story.

Speaker 31 The other day, my son son stole his phone. I knew what he was doing.

Speaker 31 I'm not, just he steals his phone to go into the bathroom to be on TikTok because we don't like him on TikTok. So I started banging on the door and screaming, start masturbating.

Speaker 30 Anyways, I'm sure that worked really well. Anyway, Carrie, we really appreciate it.
Good luck. But both you and your husband should be involved.
It shouldn't just be the guy. All right, Carrie.

Speaker 30 Thank you so much, as always. Thank you.

Speaker 31 Thanks, Carrie. Bye.

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Speaker 6 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

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Speaker 45 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

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Speaker 23 So you started a business, but you didn't expect to become the head of everything. Now you're doing marketing, customer service, and IT with no support staff.

Speaker 23 At some point, doing it all becomes the reason nothing gets done.

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Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odo.

Speaker 3 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 11 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 44 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 13 This is where Odo comes in.

Speaker 2 It's the only business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 6 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 8 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 45 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 46 And the best part is that Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 47 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 40 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 43 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters, running your business.

Speaker 15 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

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Speaker 30 Scott, we're back with our special call-in show taking questions from our listeners. Let's go to our next caller.
This question is about AI and career choices. Hi, Jessica.

Speaker 30 Tell us about yourself and what your question is.

Speaker 39 Hi, I live in Houston, Texas. I am a veterinarian and small business owner, and my husband is an engineer for NASA.

Speaker 39 We have two teenage sons, ages 15 and 13. So they're just starting to think about college and career paths.

Speaker 39 And we keep hearing how AI and increasing automation is just going to eliminate whole sectors of work and broad swaths of especially entry-level positions.

Speaker 39 And so I was just curious what advice you guys have for young people who want engaging and fulfilling careers, but careers that are not going to disappear as they move into them.

Speaker 30 Yes, it's definitely a fear, including current careers. Scott, why don't you start?

Speaker 31 Yeah, I don't,

Speaker 31 I think you want your kids to

Speaker 31 have a decent grounding in communications and the sciences and history and the same old stuff.

Speaker 31 Now, do you unnaturally push them towards computer science as a lot of people were doing, knowing that a lot of those jobs are probably going to go away unless they're naturally drawn to it? Sure.

Speaker 31 But I don't think we can, I think it's unhealthy to try and predict the future and push your kids one way or the other.

Speaker 31 I remember in private schools in New York when everyone was trying to, when everyone was forcing their kids to take Mandarin, thinking that China was taking over. And I think...

Speaker 31 removing one of the biggest mistakes we did in public schools was removing civics and wood shop and auto shop and metal shop and replacing it with computer science.

Speaker 31 And you end up with Mark Zuckerberg and less patriotism and also less young people, specifically young men, who have the skills to go get vocational work. But I don't,

Speaker 31 I think what you do is you just encourage your kids to find stuff they're interested in, make sure they have a good grounding or some grounding in, you know, reading, writing, you know, arithmetic, all that stuff.

Speaker 31 But I think trying to predict the future around what jobs will be there and which ones won't, I think it's a fool's errand. I think you're just as likely to be wrong.
And also,

Speaker 31 you know, we can, we like to think of ourselves as parents, as engineers, that we engineer the sheep.

Speaker 31 And we're not. We're, we're shepherds.
We can decide where they graze. We can point them in one direction.
We kind of get some influence on what they eat, but they come to you.

Speaker 31 Out of nowhere, my son's interested in biology and my other son's interested in technology. And I had nothing to do with either of those things.

Speaker 31 So I think you're just super supportive, introduce them to a bunch of stuff. But for God's sake, who knows?

Speaker 30 I would agree. One of the things that's interesting is, you know, I have two very different older sons.
The younger ones are not going to have a job for a while.

Speaker 30 But one of the things was encouraging them to get a wide range of study.

Speaker 30 The one that was more interested in technology, I kind of insisted, we both did, that he take, you know, focus on English, focus on language, whatever, sports, other things that weren't necessarily like when he was applying for colleges, he applied to a lot of technology-oriented ones.

Speaker 30 And we were like, well, think larger, that you have other offer because he liked to do glass uh art for example he does amazing like other things um like he's taking a linguistics course he's at michigan which i was very happy for him to go there because he had a lot of choice he was doing a a thing where he built uh these really cool uh floats but it was a lot of technology but it was artistic because he had an artistic bent.

Speaker 30 And so one of the things was sort of not shoving them into anything. Now, in his case, interestingly, he was very aware of the AI issues well before I was.

Speaker 30 He's like, AI is going to replace all of computer programming. And therefore,

Speaker 30 he's much more job focused in a great way. But he's like, I'm going to do mechanical engineering because that's something that can't be replaced.

Speaker 30 So that was him doing it on his own energy, essentially.

Speaker 30 But one of the things we tried is to get them a wide range of things, even if he tended towards technology and my other son tended towards English and history.

Speaker 30 We wanted him to do more math, like to experience a lot of things. And again, you're right.
Scott's right. You don't know what's going to be.

Speaker 30 Like I was one of those parents that were like, he should learn Mandarin. I'm like, why? Like, he's not like, it was, but it was a big pressure.
Like, they're in Mandarin. They're in whatever.

Speaker 30 I just think if he likes languages, if he likes Chinese, learn Chinese. But otherwise, not for

Speaker 30 a job because you don't know what people will do.

Speaker 30 I do think we don't know what jobs are going to be affected.

Speaker 30 But I did tend to push them more into jobs that I did know weren't going to be affected. Like if you like cooking, that's really not going to be subsumed.

Speaker 30 Or vocational, if they happen to like that, that would be interesting. And so I just think the more you give them a broad base of learning, the better you are.

Speaker 30 And then they'll sort of self-sort into things.

Speaker 30 But I would say I wouldn't be a radiologist if they are like, I desperately want to be a radiologist.

Speaker 39 No, I just from veterinary medicine, if that field's going to be

Speaker 4 right, right.

Speaker 30 Oh, veterinary medicine, sure. But that said, it doesn't, it means there's going to be vets using that who do better and fewer vets, I guess, if that makes sense.
And so

Speaker 30 I do encourage them to use AI and try it and employ it. If not.

Speaker 30 Absolutely. Like and figure out what it means for you.

Speaker 30 Because one thing Scott always says, which I think is important is there's going to be fewer lawyers, but the lawyers that are there are going to do better because they use this technology.

Speaker 30 It's sort of like not using the internet.

Speaker 31 The one skill, if I could give my kids any one skill, and what I push them towards at every chance I get

Speaker 31 is I do think the skill that if I had to pick one thing that will persevere and always be important in terms of your ability to advance professionally, it's communications, or specifically the ability to tell stories, create an arc.

Speaker 31 And I think it starts with a written word.

Speaker 31 And that is the ability to express yourself and organize your thoughts. And so I make my kids take English in advanced English.

Speaker 31 And also, one of the things I loved about the school they're in, they make them stand up and speak in front of other people.

Speaker 31 Because when I look at, I think for the last 50 years, and I think probably for the next 50 years, the difference between someone who does well and someone who does exceptionally well is their ability to capture people's attention and take data and create an arc and tell stories and compel people to action through either the written word.

Speaker 31 And there's so many different mediums now for storytelling, whether it's Substack or the Written Word or writing books or in person.

Speaker 31 But great communicators, I mean, there isn't, it's very difficult if you want to have an outsized disproportionate amount of influence or disproportionate amount of economic opportunity, or quite frankly, a disproportionate amount of unearned mating opportunities.

Speaker 31 It's quite frankly how good your rap is, your ability to engage people.

Speaker 31 So developing those skills early, I used to make my sons,

Speaker 31 I used to have this thing and I stopped it because it got too painful with one of my sons, but I used to say, when we go out, you can't come back in the house until you speak to a stranger.

Speaker 31 And

Speaker 31 one had no problem with it, another did have problems with it. And it would be like, just go pet their dog, ask them what type of dog it is.

Speaker 31 But your, your ability to engage people, look them in the eye, establish conversation, I think that's kind of,

Speaker 31 you know, sort of the building blocks of all of it.

Speaker 30 Yeah, one of the other things, I would say he's absolutely right about communication, but creativity too.

Speaker 30 Try like creative stuff really does help you, whatever it happens to be, whether it's cooking or glass art, whatever, just something that's not, that's physical.

Speaker 30 one of the things i with sports too because that's teamwork that's physical stuff it's out of your head because there's so these kids are so much in their head and so much on the screen and so just phys not like insistent but like put down the phone go kick a ball go kick a like that was the thing now i was lucky because both my kids liked sports but like to whatever it happens to be with my daughter she likes dancing like she's gonna go to like dance do whatever my other son i have a feeling is headed towards martial arts at this point because he likes to kick things.

Speaker 30 So I'm like, okay, then we're going to do something with it. Physicality, I think, is something that is undersung, that is critically important.

Speaker 30 The other thing Scott does a lot, which I think is I do a lot in a different way, is taking them to things like theater or sporting events, like where lots of people are.

Speaker 30 And that's another thing that I think you learn a lot by that. And the last thing I would say is a job.
I think kids should work. I just do.

Speaker 30 I think my son did so well working at a she worked at a store,

Speaker 30 a grocery store, essentially. It was a sort of specialty foods.
And I think he learned how to get show up on time, show up for a job, finish things, clean up things and give them that responsibility.

Speaker 39 And it's more engagement, like Scott was saying, more engagement with just the general public.

Speaker 30 Right. Or figuring out.
a job, figuring out like a workplace. Yeah.
Yeah. My son has an internship this summer and he's always calling me.
He's like, this happened.

Speaker 30 I'm like, oh, that's an interesting, you know what I mean? Like you just, you have to like, and they have to fail, I think, in a lot of ways. I think kids should work at a relatively early age.

Speaker 30 I did, but I don't know.

Speaker 30 They'll be fine. You'll be surprised.
Everything, as Scott says, you just don't know. You can't second guess it.
Anyway, we really appreciate it. Jessica, thank you so much.

Speaker 39 Thank you guys so much. I enjoy the show.

Speaker 30 Thanks, Jessica. Bye.

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Speaker 48 Sometimes the difference between success and failure comes down to one chance encounter, or following a counterintuitive instinct, or ignoring conventional wisdom to make a bold decision.

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Speaker 30 Scott, we're back. Up next, we have someone with a question about BYD and China.
Tell us your name, where you're from, and your question.

Speaker 50 Hi, my name is Kelvin. I live in the Bronx.

Speaker 50 My question.

Speaker 34 So

Speaker 50 I've been thinking a lot about U.S.-China dynamics, especially with tech and automobiles. And you guys have praised BYDs, EVs, and said that how it would be great if they could enter the U.S.
market.

Speaker 50 But also over the years, you guys have expressed concerns about the CCP's influence, especially with TikTok.

Speaker 50 What was it about a year ago? We had the balloon over the Midwest.

Speaker 50 My question is, if we are worried about China's social media apps spying on Americans, why would we welcome a tech-filled Chinese vehicle onto U.S. streets?

Speaker 50 Could this possibly be a way of being like a Trojan horse for data collection and surveillance in America?

Speaker 30 That is an excellent question. You know what? I hadn't even thought about that in terms of data collection.
The reason why we talk about BYD is because they're really good cars.

Speaker 30 And what's really depressing, I think, to me at least, and I don't know about Scott, is how incredibly innovative these cars are and how cool and adorable.

Speaker 30 And we wish there was more innovation with US car makers around. Now there have been.
There's been like the Volkswagen, they're not a U.S. car maker, but Volkswagen ID.
Some of the GM cars are great.

Speaker 30 Some of the Ford cars are great.

Speaker 30 But

Speaker 30 it feels like the whole area needs innovation. And so rather than just copying, BYD is innovating with cars.
And so that's, I think, what we're in admiration of. But you're right.

Speaker 30 These things collect a lot of data. They'll have a lot of questions about our movement.

Speaker 30 We always will have, China is always in a surveillance mode, as far as I can tell. That said, so is Facebook, so is Tesla, so are the rest of them.

Speaker 30 But you're right. It's a different, I think it's a little different experience

Speaker 30 knowing where people are going in their cars. Is that as much with TikTok? You're more worried about propaganda, about messaging and things like that over where people physically are.

Speaker 30 But I suppose you're right. That is something that they could they could track.
I just don't think it's TikTok. I worry more about it as a propaganda more than a surveillance vehicle.

Speaker 50 I was thinking like, you know, by a car, you could tell the size of a family, what podcast they're listening to. Could there even be technology to record conversations? So.

Speaker 30 Yes. Yep.
I agree with you. I hadn't even thought about that.
As a surveillance, a surveillance vehicle, it certainly is that. Scott, what do you think?

Speaker 31 Maybe I should be more worried, but I'm not.

Speaker 31 I think that we should have the technology to figure out if there's some sort of remote transmission or data storage technology that gets somehow ends up in the wrong hands.

Speaker 31 And also, I'm, I, the surveillance horse is already out of the barn.

Speaker 31 I think most people or most organizations, if they're really committed to understanding where you are, the relationships you have, your travel patterns, you know, I just can't imagine they couldn't get most of that information probably from hacking Uber or going onto the dark web or hacking or not even hacking, but just looking at your movements on meta.

Speaker 31 And I don't, I think there's a bigger difference between take worst case scenario, understanding a family's size and movements, as opposed to training an entire emerging generation of Americans to have sympathy for Hamas.

Speaker 31 And that's where I see the threat of TikTok.

Speaker 31 I think the propaganda threat of raising a generation of civic business and nonprofit leaders that are anti-American, which is what I think TikTok, if I were controlling TikTok's algorithm or had influence over it,

Speaker 31 that's the scale I would be putting my thumb on. I just think cars are less of a security risk.
And also,

Speaker 31 I like the idea of young people having access to great cars for 18 or 20 grand. I want to see,

Speaker 31 yeah, they're incredible. I would love to see, I think tariffs are terrible.
I'd love to see a global trade agreement.

Speaker 31 Our trade complexion with China is asymmetric. There's a lot to be done there.
But I think ultimately... we want to put pressure on all global auto manufacturers to give our

Speaker 31 households the best cars for the lowest price possible. And

Speaker 3 that's right. And I think BYD is that.

Speaker 31 Now,

Speaker 31 should they be providing more access to our great manufactured goods? Yes. Should they have paid some sort of tax for the IP theft from Tesla and Auto Autumn? I mean, it gets complicated fast, but

Speaker 31 maybe I'm being naive. I'm not worried.
I'm much more worried about Byte Dance than I am about BYD.

Speaker 30 Yeah. So one of the things also is that

Speaker 30 at some, what BYD is doing is they're invading other countries, Europe. You see them.
I saw them all over Europe on my last trip. I had not seen BYD cars until recently.

Speaker 30 One, they're delightful. They absolutely, when I was in, I asked to look at one.

Speaker 30 They're cars I wish I could own. I know it sounds crazy.

Speaker 30 Like, I don't think about China as a car manufacturer, but they're making enormous inroads into other countries across the world, as China is in lots of things.

Speaker 30 And the idea that China is just a stealer of information is, they absolutely are. They absolutely do steal IP, but they also are innovators at this point.

Speaker 30 They're started to switch, flip the script and they're very innovative.

Speaker 30 And you can see that by, they couldn't accomplish what they're doing at BYD by just stealing things because there's nothing to steal. Like the Tesla hasn't changed its look in quite a while.

Speaker 30 If, I don't know, it looks like the same car as five years ago, 10 years ago. The price hasn't come down.
They haven't offered. Teslas missed the vote on offering a cheap car, right?

Speaker 30 They were supposed to and then they didn't.

Speaker 30 Same thing with all of them is, as Scott said, young people don't have a chance to buy these things. And

Speaker 30 they would proliferate if our car manufacturers didn't just stick up to the top, you know, wealthy people and bring it down. So,

Speaker 30 you know, obviously

Speaker 30 it seems like you should compete on quality and everything else, but

Speaker 30 it demands that our own manufacturers do the same thing, which I think they have a difficulty doing.

Speaker 30 And especially with the Trump administration openly hostile to EVs now, I think this new bill is going to remove all the subsidies or encouraging and they're going to be very fossil fuel oriented.

Speaker 30 And so that's, again, our country sort of shooting itself in the foot on the emerging technology that is critical, which is EVs.

Speaker 30 But you're right. It's an interesting question.

Speaker 30 But I'm also not that as worried as Scott. I'm more worried about a propaganda vehicle than anything else.
So any other thoughts, Kelvin?

Speaker 50 No, no, I just was really interested in you guys' conversation about that.

Speaker 30 Yeah, it's it's really, it's a really interesting question. But

Speaker 30 it doesn't matter. They're winning all over the world.
I have to say they're everywhere.

Speaker 30 And so that's the real opportunity for our manufacturers to get all over the world and be innovative. But we're not taking it.
And now our government doesn't want to help that happen.

Speaker 30 Anyway, thank you so much. And we hear you're getting married this month.
Congratulations.

Speaker 19 Congratulations.

Speaker 50 Actually, Saturday.

Speaker 30 Oh, my God.

Speaker 50 My husband and I, we are getting married this Saturday. We're excited.
It's going to be at our our home.

Speaker 50 So I want to send a shout out to him, Ori, and then also our family in Israel.

Speaker 50 They were planning to be here, but unfortunately, they cannot make it for obvious reasons. So, you know, our hearts are with them.

Speaker 50 And we'll just maybe find time to celebrate in Tel Aviv whenever all of this is over.

Speaker 30 Next year in Jerusalem. Yeah.

Speaker 19 Yeah.

Speaker 30 Right. Yeah.
Well, congratulations. We really appreciate you calling in.

Speaker 50 Thank you. Thank you.
A pleasure speaking with you both.

Speaker 19 Bye.

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Speaker 30 Okay, Scott, we're back. Next up, we have a caller with a question about time travel.
Hello, caller. Tell us who you are and what your question is.

Speaker 51 Hey, thank you so much for having me. Check one off the bucket list.
I'm on with the big dog and the jungle cat. I'm Eric.
I live near Philadelphia with my family. I work in the energy industry.

Speaker 51 And my question for the two of you is, if you had to pick one timeline to go back to in history, what would you choose? as that timeline and why?

Speaker 30 Oh, wow. I think about time travel a lot, actually.
I am an H.G. Wells fan.
I love that book, The Time Machine. And of course, A Time and Again was one of my favorite books as a kid.

Speaker 30 I love Jean-Claude Van Damme and Time Cop.

Speaker 30 I love time, all the time things.

Speaker 30 And I just find ray bradbury obviously with the butterfly on his foot and stuff like that so i'm a big i think about time travel a lot and i i think it would be pretty cool to go back and the question is would you do anything and change anything um

Speaker 30 you know god so many different choices i gotta

Speaker 30 i would like to meet cleopatra I gotta say, I'm kind of of a lot of questions.

Speaker 30 And so if I had to pick a historic figure, that time period, although I probably would be killed immediately as a witch or something like that.

Speaker 30 But if I could be invisible or not, you know, know what I know now and go back then, I think that would be kind of cool.

Speaker 30 And it probably, I just, I feel like there's, she was the greatest ruler for a long, long time for, and the richest person in the world.

Speaker 30 And since I know so many richest people in the world, it would be kind of interesting to see that era. I think that would be pretty cool.

Speaker 30 I probably would go back to see my dad when he was living. That would be the other one.

Speaker 30 But then would I be my age I was or the age I am now? So if I could know what I'm like now, then that would be cool. What about you, Scott?

Speaker 31 Yeah, it's an interesting question. I don't, I have no desire to go back very far because I'm kind of, I've sort of gotten fond of this whole Novocaine and Netflix age we're in.
Okay.

Speaker 31 And I don't, I think people wax nostalgic for

Speaker 31 no reason. For

Speaker 31 I think we're literally, this is the best day ever in the history of the planet on a risk-adjusted basis until tomorrow. I do think things just get better and people don't,

Speaker 31 because we live in a society where algorithms want to want to convince you that your life is terrible and people aren't happy. It's not true.
On almost every major metric, things get better every day.

Speaker 31 So

Speaker 31 I don't feel like I need to go back.

Speaker 31 What I go to is I'm not interested in going to a different time.

Speaker 31 I'm interested in going back to certain scenarios in my life. I would love to go back and spend some time when I had little kids in the house.
That was really magical.

Speaker 31 And I kind of knew it at the time, but I was working so hard that I didn't get to spend as much time with them as I would have liked.

Speaker 31 So I would love to go back and be with, you know, four and seven-year-old boys instead of 14 and 17. So that's how I think of time travel.
I don't think of going back to based on an era.

Speaker 31 I think of going back to different points in my life because I want to,

Speaker 31 you know, I want to remember what that, I want to feel that. I want to feel those moments again, but I don't have any desire.

Speaker 30 You can do what I did. You could have more kids.

Speaker 31 Yeah, I think I'm closer business, Gara.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 31 I would need to get divorced and go younger, which could happen.

Speaker 30 I'm just saying, you can experience it all over again.

Speaker 31 No, I'm going to rent Saul.

Speaker 30 Okay,

Speaker 30 okay. Good luck with that.
Let's see. You know, there's a great film about that.
Also, speaking of time, travel films, it's called About Time, and it's

Speaker 30 with Christopher Reeves. No, it's well, that, oh, there's time.
That's time. And James Seymour? That's

Speaker 30 somewhere in time. Then they go, he goes back and he sees the penny.
That's an amazing movie. But there's another one called About Time, and it's with Bill Nye.

Speaker 30 They can go back and redo things over and over again. And Rachel McAdams is in it.
And they can go back and like

Speaker 30 they meet for the first time. He fucks it up and he goes back and redoes it and redoes it until he gets it right, which is kind of cool to be able to do that.

Speaker 31 There was a similar movie called Sliding Doors, but the best, in my opinion, the best modern day movie about time travel was Looper

Speaker 31 with Bruce Willis. I forget the kid's name.

Speaker 31 Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Joseph Gordon-Levitt.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 31 How about you?

Speaker 31 What would you go?

Speaker 30 Where would you go? Yeah.

Speaker 51 Where would you go? So

Speaker 51 watching watching stranger things on netflix has made me a little nostalgic for the 1980s so

Speaker 31 best era ever that's what i was oh so you picked one you just gave me an answer i agree no if i could be were you and i i don't know if you're the same age as me if i could be if i just wanted to have fun i would go back to ucla in the 80s i mean that was hard to beat yeah i bet yeah and you know i could

Speaker 31 You know, oh my gosh, I could have a good time. I'd finally hang up the condom I never used.
Anyways,

Speaker 31 yeah,

Speaker 31 the 80s. Tom Petty, Tom Petty, and Tom Petty.

Speaker 6 Yeah.

Speaker 30 And hair.

Speaker 31 You had hair. A ponytail.
I didn't just have hair. I had a ponytail.

Speaker 30 You had a ponytail. Why the 80s for you, Eric?

Speaker 34 Why the 80s?

Speaker 51 Why the 80s? Like I said, I was been watching Stranger Things all the seasons, and it's like, it's almost like that E.T. vibe a little bit.
You know, I was a kid on a dirt bike

Speaker 16 roaming around neighborhoods.

Speaker 51 There was a sense of like

Speaker 51 freedom and

Speaker 51 fun. You know, it wasn't just being a kid, but like there's a lot different than being a kid now.

Speaker 19 So

Speaker 19 fullness. Where did you grow up, Eric?

Speaker 51 In Washington, in D.C., in Washington, D.C., in the West.

Speaker 30 Yeah. Yeah, it's a different time.
Although maybe it isn't for the kids, right?

Speaker 30 They may think this is the best time of their lives. They probably do.
My kids are carefree in a different way.

Speaker 30 So we don't know. It just, it'd be interesting to go back with your current personality and knowledge to when you were a kid.
That would be kind of cool. Exactly.
You know shit. You know what I mean?

Speaker 30 Like it would be, that to me would

Speaker 30 be cool. I don't know.
Still, I'm sticking with Cleopatra.

Speaker 31 Let's start a search engine and Mary Lauren Sanchez.

Speaker 19 That's what I do.

Speaker 30 Oh, my God. Anyway,

Speaker 30 thank you, Eric. What a great question.
What a thoughtful question. Again, we didn't even say we'd go back and kill Hitler, did we? That's the old, that's the old go-to.

Speaker 51 Hey, you're welcome. Thanks for having me on both of you.
I love the show. It keeps getting better.
Just listen every week.

Speaker 30 Thank you so much. We appreciate it.

Speaker 19 Thanks, Eric.

Speaker 30 Okay, Scott, that's that's the show. As always, our listeners are so much smarter than we are.
They really are, don't you think?

Speaker 30 Is that all you have to say?

Speaker 19 Yeah, no, I love it.

Speaker 31 I love our fans, but I love our advertisers more because they pay for that big fucking boat that I'm going to crash that Bezo Sanchez wedding at.

Speaker 30 They're not having you.

Speaker 30 I'm rolling in.

Speaker 19 I'm rolling long.

Speaker 30 We'll be back on Friday with more Pivot. Read us out, Scott.

Speaker 42 Today's show was produced by Larry Names, Oy Marcus, Taylor Griffin, and Kevin Oliver.

Speaker 31 Ernie and her Todd introduced this episode. Thanks to also Dubroz, Miss Vero, and Dan Dan Shalon.
The Shak Kuro is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.

Speaker 11 Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Speaker 31 Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.

Speaker 4 We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Speaker 1 Support for the show comes from Odoo.

Speaker 3 Running a business is hard enough, and you don't need to make it harder with with a dozen different apps that don't talk to each other.

Speaker 11 One for sales, another for inventory, a separate one for accounting.

Speaker 44 Before you know it, you find yourself drowning in software and processes instead of focusing on what matters, growing your business.

Speaker 13 This is where Odo comes in.

Speaker 2 It's the only business software you'll ever need.

Speaker 6 Odo is an all-in-one, fully integrated platform that handles everything.

Speaker 8 That means CRM, accounting, inventory, e-commerce, HR, and more.

Speaker 45 No more app overload, no more juggling logins, just one seamless system that makes work easier.

Speaker 46 And the best part is that Odo replaces multiple expensive platforms for a fraction of the cost.

Speaker 47 It's built to grow with your business, whether you're just starting out or you're already scaling up.

Speaker 40 Plus, it's easy to use, customizable, and designed to streamline every process.

Speaker 43 It's time to put the clutter aside and focus on what really matters: running your business.

Speaker 15 Thousands of businesses have made the switch, so why not you?

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