Trump's Big Speech, Trade War Roller Coaster, and Elon v. Jon Stewart

Transcript

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Speaker 9 I didn't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's chest in any way, and there it was.

Speaker 9 Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher, and it's tomorrow where I am, Scott Galloway.

Speaker 8 Are you still in Australia, Kara?

Speaker 9 I am still in Australia.

Speaker 8 I am still in Australia.

Speaker 9 I know. I've been here a while.
I've been all over this amazing country. I was in Brisbane.
I was in Adelaide. I was in Sydney.
And now I'm in Melbourne, which I think is my favorite city.

Speaker 9 I hate to pick one because all the Australians who love us will be mad at me, but it's a great city. It's a fantastic city.

Speaker 8 It's a great city. Last time I was in Australia, I traveled to New Zealand and

Speaker 8 I was driving along the side of the road and there was a guy fucking a sheep. And I said, you know, in Australia, they shear them.
And he said, fuck you. I'm not shearing her with anybody.

Speaker 9 That's good. Oh, my God.

Speaker 9 Oh, I can't believe you have a dirty Australian joke.

Speaker 8 I'll take it, PG-13. You're coming to Texas in a few days, right?

Speaker 9 Tomorrow, yeah. Well, the day after tomorrow for you, but go ahead.
Sorry. Yeah.

Speaker 8 I'm bringing cheese for us such we can handle any emergency. I'm calling it my Justin Caseo.

Speaker 9 Oh, Scott.

Speaker 8 So what do you okay? What have you been doing in Australia?

Speaker 9 I've been going on my book tour. I didn't come here when my book came out last year.

Speaker 8 You got to sell 11 books this year? No,

Speaker 9 Scott, I'm going to be honest.

Speaker 8 You're huge. You're huge.

Speaker 9 We are huge. Everyone asks me about you.
It's really irritating.

Speaker 9 They're like, when are you and Scott coming? I have sold out like major venues here just by myself. We could sell out a stadium.
We could sell out a stadium.

Speaker 8 I would like that.

Speaker 9 Yes, they want to

Speaker 9 me. And they're all upset that you talk about not wanting to come there.

Speaker 8 Everyone would live in Australia if it wasn't so far.

Speaker 9 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, except if everyone lived here, it wouldn't be far. You see what I'm saying?

Speaker 8 I had one of the best nights of my life in Australia. It involved the ex-girlfriend of the drummer in Excess.
I'm dating myself at I was at the W Hotel. I was out alone.

Speaker 8 And these two women came out to me and said, hi, you're alone. And they took me out.
We had a great time. I just, I had the best time.

Speaker 8 The water taxis, that polar place with the pool and the polar bear club, whatever it's called. I miss all that.

Speaker 9 I missed all that here. But

Speaker 9 I do a lot of walking. I do a lot of walking.
And like the, you know, it's such a, it's, it's a, it's a weirdly diverse place.

Speaker 9 And, you know, there's all kinds of different people from countries all over the world. And I kind of like that.
It feels very,

Speaker 9 even the smaller cities like Adelaide

Speaker 9 just feel just they're just really interesting. And maybe because it's sort of a familiar environment, yet it's not.
Anyway, I love it. I went and saw the Sydney Opera House.
They took walks.

Speaker 9 I did the whole thing. I did it.
I love it here. Last time I was here, I took my boys, Louis and Alex and I were here.

Speaker 8 I'm going next Christmas before our next holiday. I'm taking my boys before we head back.
I mean, it's really

Speaker 8 a tourism giant. It has some of the best wine in the world.
It's got

Speaker 8 more kangaroos than people.

Speaker 9 Yes, I didn't see any kangaroos this visit.

Speaker 8 And they did something that I think we should do here in the U.S. And that is, well, they're very paternal and they take some of their mineral wealth and they invest it on behalf of people.

Speaker 8 And they have something called the Superannuation Fund. And it's essentially a pension program.
And it has over $3.5 trillion under it, making it one of the largest pension funds in the world.

Speaker 9 Interesting. You see, you need to come here.
You know a lot about Australia. This is great.

Speaker 8 Oh, I love Australia.

Speaker 9 You know what else we could do besides going around in stadiums? You and I could do our tour. And then for the last part, you and I go to the Outback and only one of us comes back.

Speaker 8 What do you think? It's not a vacation, it's Survivor? Yeah.

Speaker 8 Why do your fantasies always involve something where I die?

Speaker 9 Because it's really, well, because if two of us went out in the Outback, only one of us would come. Who do you think would make it?

Speaker 8 Well, you always ask this question, and it's obvious. I would just honorably kill myself.
I would just find like several pros and a bunch of fentanyl and just say, All right, I'm out. Game over.

Speaker 8 By the way, some bands from Australia, ACDC, in excess.

Speaker 8 The highway to help those people, the highway to help people. That's ACDC.
Jesus, didn't you have a childhood? You really didn't smoke pot. Anyways, yeah, ACDC.

Speaker 8 One of the great actors, not arguably a great guy, Mel Gibson. Oh, Mel Gibson.

Speaker 8 Yeah, lost it there and didn't I did. Took a little too far.

Speaker 9 You know, and I could say I really like the only reason I don't want to do the Outback, I'll come back and I'll go, a dingo ate my Scotty.

Speaker 8 So. Yeah, that's Mel Streep.
Now, the best independent film to come out of Australia.

Speaker 8 This is a gorgeous little film that introduced Nicole Kidman and the most beautiful woman in the world is in the film. Oh, Kate Winslet.
No?

Speaker 8 Jesus Christ, you're awful. Anyways, Thandie Newton, it's a movie called Flirting, and it's about a boarding school in Australia, and it is so touching and so well-known.

Speaker 9 Wow. It's tandy.
It's tandy, just so you know. Anyway, back to Australia.
We love Australia. We love Australia.
And you and I are coming here.

Speaker 9 All right, Scott, we've got a lot to get to today, including Trump's tariff roller coaster and how the Democrats' resistance tactics keep falling flat.

Speaker 9 But first, let's talk about Jon Stewart and Elon Musk.

Speaker 9 When we get to see the two of them sit down for an interview, after an ex-user suggested that you should have a conversation, Musk said he'd be up for it if, quote, the show airs unedited after Stewart accepted.

Speaker 9 And obviously, the show is always unedited, Elon. Musk proceeded to call him a propagandist, saying he used to be more bipartisan and sort of backed away.
Let's listen to Stewart's fantastic response:

Speaker 10 The guy who custom-made his own dark MAGA hat

Speaker 11 that he wears to opine in the Oval Office with the president who he spent $270 million to elect

Speaker 12 thinks I'm just too partisan.

Speaker 11 So I guess what I would say is this.

Speaker 11 Look, Elon, I do have some criticisms about Doge.

Speaker 13 I support in general the idea of efficiency and delivering better services to the American public in cheaper and more efficient ways. And if you want to come on and talk about it on the show,

Speaker 13 great.

Speaker 13 If you don't want to, sure.

Speaker 13 But can we just drop the pretense that you won't do it because I don't measure up to the standards of neutral discourse that you demand and display at all times?

Speaker 9 Yeah, that was good. That was good.

Speaker 8 That was good.

Speaker 9 You know who's doing really well?

Speaker 9 I think comics have like like Stewart and Bill Burr has been really funny, and Bill Maher has kind of been up to like all Chelsea Handler, all of them are really handling it, like really well, I would say, like in a way that's funny, approachable, and also very pointed.

Speaker 9 I just, I find them, I don't know, for some reason, quite good.

Speaker 8 I don't know if you do. Yeah, they've been great, but the most, I would argue, you know, comedians have always played a pretty big role in culture and highlighting the injustices of culture.

Speaker 8 I would argue the most important in that group is Bill Burr, because I think Bill has so much credibility across the conservative ecosystem.

Speaker 8 And he was constantly setting progressives' hair on fire with very,

Speaker 8 very

Speaker 8 funny, provocative, and you know whatever inappropriate say above comedian and he's just gone off on musk

Speaker 8 and i think for me it represents sort of the nadir of the peak or whatever where the dialogue has really really flipped and people are coming i do think there's sort of been a reveal by the way i wonder if elon's going to bring one of his kids as a human shield to jon stewart by the way i don't think that's ever going to happen i don't think he's going no no he's not going he's saying he's too bipartisan he's so he's such a chicken shit oh yeah yes I'll fight you anywhere in jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 8 Oh, no. Never mind.

Speaker 8 I have a herniated disc. There's no way he's going to go on that show.
Yeah, no way.

Speaker 9 No, because he can't keep up. Stuart's too fast and too sharp for him.
He's not.

Speaker 9 I think people should realize. Elon's not.
He's a very smart person, but in this regard, he is not. And Stewart would run circles around him in a way that would be embarrassing.

Speaker 8 By the way, just because you didn't ask, I've been in Barcelona, Miami, New York in the last 48 hours.

Speaker 8 You're not the only one who looks 110.

Speaker 9 Well, I saw you were at Mobile World Congress.

Speaker 8 Like, I haven't met you. Unbelievable event.
Huge event.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 8 I haven't been there in years. I used to send reporters there.

Speaker 9 And what were you discussing? I saw you on the stage looking very comely, by the way. You look very fit and trim.

Speaker 8 Oh, thanks for saying that.

Speaker 8 Basically, my rap now is the cowardice domino that is big tech,

Speaker 8 that these individuals don't realize the damage they're having and they're enabling. You know, they're the mortar and the bricks of fascism.

Speaker 8 And because all these, the biggest, the biggest companies are there sponsoring it. I'm like, these individuals are playing a really key and terrible role in our march towards fascism.

Speaker 8 And that's all we talked about. Oh, wow.

Speaker 9 Yeah, people are super. Everything is linked to tech right now, of course, which puts it in our wheelhouse in a lot of ways.

Speaker 9 And I think, you know, especially abroad, they're sort of absolutely confused by the whole thing and they don't know what to do because, you know, they endured Trump 1.0, but this is something far different for them.

Speaker 9 And even in our own country, a group backed by Musk is spending millions in Wisconsin Supreme Court election. Like, what is he doing over there?

Speaker 9 Ads run by the group highlighting progressive values appear to be coming from supporters of Democratic-backed candidate, but instead come from conservatives.

Speaker 9 Musk's America Pact is the biggest outside spender in the race.

Speaker 9 The outcome of the election will have major implications in Wisconsin as the court is expected to face issues surrounding abortion, voting rules, and unions.

Speaker 9 Liberals gained a four to three majority two years ago, if you remember that, and after 15 years of conservative control.

Speaker 9 I heard from the people who are backing the

Speaker 9 woman candidate for the judgeship who are working really hard, who won the last time they had this fight. But the money from Musk is, this is where you're going to see it all across the country.

Speaker 9 People that are against Trump in some way are going to, this money is going to move in

Speaker 8 like crazy.

Speaker 8 But there's a couple of reveals here or points. And that is one, and I've said this, this was one of my big themes for 2025.
Democracy and rights have now become the R is almost one.

Speaker 8 They're almost perfectly correlated with how much money you have. Because in almost every election in America, it's kind of 48% vote one way or 49, and 48 of 49 vote the other way.

Speaker 8 And 1 or 2 percent swing the election. And lately, because of gerrymandering, it's 0.1 percent that swing the election.
And it's pretty fairly obvious that

Speaker 8 Musk and his ad targeting and a third of a billion dollars in key states

Speaker 8 leveraged by a platform, he's probably decided the geopolitical priorities for the next four years globally.

Speaker 8 So if you don't think that rights are directly correlated to money, case in point, Elon Musk.

Speaker 8 And then when you look at Doge and what he's doing in Wisconsin, there are people on the right and they are They are intellectually honest. It's about politics for them.
It's about a belief system.

Speaker 8 Whether you agree with them or not, you have to respect their ideals and them putting their money, their time, their treasure, and town behind those ideals.

Speaker 8 I don't think it has anything to do with it here. And that is, if you look at Doge, Doge isn't about fraud and waste.

Speaker 8 The first thing they thought they identified on their wall of receipts at 8 billion was 8 million. And numbers two, three, and four, people can't even verify.
They seem to be false.

Speaker 8 But what they've managed to do really elegantly is remove regulators in autonomous driving.

Speaker 8 I mean, this is so obvious. It's all over the place.

Speaker 9 Yeah.

Speaker 8 This isn't about ideology. It's about money.
And by the way, that judge that he is trying to get elected, Wisconsin, you need an exemption to directly own car dealerships, like most states.

Speaker 8 The regulators or the lobby for car dealerships have made it very difficult for car dealerships to be vertically owned by their manufacturer because there's a lot of wealthy people and they think that it's good for competition.

Speaker 8 You have to get an exemption in Wisconsin. He has been suing in Wisconsin for this exemption.
And if he gets his guy on the Supreme Court there,

Speaker 8 it'll likely be overturned. Folks, wake up.
Money equals power, full stop. And this guy, it's all about money.
It has nothing to do with his views politically.

Speaker 8 This all reverse engineers to

Speaker 8 I want my cars put on the road regardless of safety standards. I want Verizon kicked out of any bidding.

Speaker 9 I'm in behind an AI. I would like this to happen.

Speaker 9 I agree. I think people.

Speaker 8 I mean, the Koch brothers have a lot more intellectual honesty than this guy.

Speaker 9 They do. They do.
I think they actually believe some of their nonsense. Anyway, speaking of which, it's not just Musk.

Speaker 9 Google is urging officials at Trump's DOJ to back away from breaking the company up.

Speaker 9 Reps from the parent company, Alphabet, argue that breaking up the search engine could have national security repercussions. I'm sure of that not.

Speaker 9 As a reminder, the Biden administration called for Google to sell off Chrome and make other business changes after the judge ruled the company to be an illegal online search monopoly.

Speaker 9 A federal judge is set to rule on what Google must change at a hearing next month.

Speaker 9 But it doesn't, the judge is going to decide this. But this is, they put a donation to Trump's inauguration.
And, you know, these people have been running from regulation for decades, two decades now.

Speaker 9 And here is what I consider a minor thing, a minor change that other industries

Speaker 9 have not been able to get out of. And here they are doing the same thing.
So it's not just limited to Musk, although he's the most egregious example of it.

Speaker 9 But they're all sort of pay-to-play kind of stuff going on.

Speaker 8 Yeah, they're doing what they're doing. They're trying to figure out a way not to be broken up.

Speaker 8 What's counterintuitive is I think shareholder value would actually go up.

Speaker 9 You and I both, sir.

Speaker 8 But the problem is the people in charge want to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, just not Westeros, and they get to decide. But

Speaker 8 Alphabet, while having probably more, maybe with the exception of Apple, more separate, independent, $100 billion plus independent companies that you could spend, they probably have four or five, they do have an existential crisis, and that is their search.

Speaker 8 share or their share of search fell below 90% for the first time. And AI is just starting, is starting to

Speaker 8 eat away at their share. And it is the ultimate example of the innovator's dilemma where they essentially invented much of the original IP, yet they sat on their hands.

Speaker 8 And as a result, Alphabet's Gemini, their LLM, is vastly beaten by OpenAI, Anthropic, and even DeepSeek.

Speaker 8 And it's just, they got to be really kicking themselves at how did we let everyone get out ahead of us. In their latest earnings report, the stock tumbled by nearly 9%,

Speaker 8 and their revenue

Speaker 8 their revenue growth slowed,

Speaker 8 has slowed since this time last year.

Speaker 9 Did you see Sergey Brin was talking about everyone back to the office, and we got to hardcore it?

Speaker 9 He's the founder, one of the founders was talking about the need to do that in order to prevail in AI. He even was sounding the alarms.

Speaker 8 Well, this is, I mean, it really is. This company is,

Speaker 8 but here's the thing.

Speaker 8 The argument they will make when they get in front of judges, on earnings calls, they will say, temporary lag. look at this, everything's great, we're amazing, the power here is unprecedented.

Speaker 8 When they get in front of a judge next week, they're going to be like, oh my God, things are so terrible. You can't break us up right now.

Speaker 8 We're really weak.

Speaker 9 The national security implications, I mean,

Speaker 9 it's just they come up with something every time. Like, we must have strong national champions.
It sounds so, I don't know. Chinese, Russian.

Speaker 8 Well, nationalists. I mean,

Speaker 8 just a quick definition. People throw around the term fascist a lot.
They use it to describe Carter, Obama. People incorrectly use it to describe certain aspects of the Trump administration.

Speaker 8 Fascism is extreme nationalism. It's a belief that someone you elect who, for whatever reason,

Speaker 8 his view of what's good for the nation should supersede the other party, any governance, any checks and balances, even the courts. Even you don't...

Speaker 8 You refuse to condemn violence against your enemies. You condemn immigrants.
That is fascism.

Speaker 8 It literally, this kind of the current administration and their current policies are literally the textbook definition of fascism. So

Speaker 8 it's a word that's become overused, but it's absolutely appropriate here.

Speaker 9 One of the things that I was saying, someone, I forgot to do one of the questions, and they said, what bothers you the most? I said, well, a lot of times they competed.

Speaker 9 I was, you know, as I go look back on, I'm talking about my book and stuff like that. Like they compete, like.
Like Steve Jobs competed on product, right? Or tried to compete on the actual product.

Speaker 9 There's so many bad products. Like Tesla has not innovated.
I said, I'm offended by Elon because of Elon, but the car hasn't innovated, right, very much. And there's, and that's why he's losing.

Speaker 9 Or Google search hasn't innovated. And, and, and all kinds of products aren't better, right? There are a couple, a couple of them are, are doing a better job.

Speaker 9 I think Apple has come up with several new interesting products over the past 10 years, for example. AirPods, the watch, things like that.

Speaker 9 But they, they're, right now they're competing on oligarchy and access and proximity, and none of it's about the actual product.

Speaker 9 And that makes me, I don't know, I was like vaguely like, it was irritating that they can't, that this is the way they're going to get an advantage.

Speaker 9 And I get that's why, but it feels that's late stage. And it's a real turn for them that they can't compete on actual things.
They have to get whatever angle they can in order to stay in business.

Speaker 9 Like Starlink, I want to, I want, I want to be close friends so I can get whatever I want. Although Canada just kicked him out.
That Justin Trudeau has gotten a dose of backbone.

Speaker 9 Haven't you noticed that?

Speaker 9 He's extra adorable recently.

Speaker 8 There is a real void that people are stepping into. I would say Trudeau.
I also say Macron is really stepping.

Speaker 9 Yeah, they're looking very handsome.

Speaker 8 They're looking very handsome.

Speaker 8 You're drawn to these individuals.

Speaker 9 Well, they are. They're acting like leaders.

Speaker 9 Not just because I like what they say, but...

Speaker 8 Power is an aphrodisiac. I get it.
I'm being clear and crisp.

Speaker 8 the real estate are you hot for starmer yet kier starmer who assembled i love him i think he's adorable who assembled world leaders yeah he did pass a head up your ass nondal thing 10 000 millionaires have left the uk in the last few months but other than that he looks like a leader he's got big shoulders and good hair but the rich people like this stuff there are

Speaker 8 there are people there are people stepping into the void um

Speaker 8 uh you know the the leader of denmark the leader of finland there are people making really powerful yeah uh speeches bringing them together, too. It's bringing them together.

Speaker 8 I'll say more about it later, but I do think the EU, and it's a silver lining here, is stepping into the morass here or the crevice or the void.

Speaker 9 The crevice. Anyway, yes, it's the crevice.
Also, there's a lovely video of

Speaker 9 Justin Trudeau making a maple milk.

Speaker 8 Making out with Macron.

Speaker 9 Oh, that would be hot. Anyway.
All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. We come back.
Trump's address to Congress. The Democrats divided response with both of us, I think, were unimpressed by.

Speaker 9 Also, John Fetterman was unimpressed.

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Speaker 9 Scott, we're back with our first big story. President Trump delivered a joint address to Congress this week, and for those watching, it felt like yet another campaign rally.

Speaker 9 He has got to get some new material. Over the course of one hour and 40 minutes, very long, Trump touted his accomplishments, revisited old grievances and repeated lies.
It was finished.

Speaker 9 It was a good version of what he did, what he does. He praised Elon Musk and Doge, mocked Democrats and wokeness.
He didn't unveil any future policies or plans.

Speaker 9 It was the greatest hits, and it was a good version of greatest hits. We'll get to the Democrats in a bit.

Speaker 9 What did you think about this speech? And I'll just note,

Speaker 9 Trump also noted in the speech that he's working to end the war war in Ukraine and also say the letter he got from Ukraine's President Zelensky who apparently now is ready to come to the negotiating table.

Speaker 9 He's had to,

Speaker 9 he's had to do, he's had to get the lesson in how to suck up to Trump, which is unfortunate. It follows this explosive meeting between Trump, Zelensky, and J.D.

Speaker 9 Vance in the Oval Office last week, the second most interesting thing J.D. Vance has done on a couch, according to the American people.

Speaker 9 Trump suspended military aid to Ukraine earlier this week, and he's cut off intelligence sharing as well, which is probably even more devastating.

Speaker 9 First, talk about what you thought of his speech and then the Oval Office situation.

Speaker 8 Well, putting truth aside, and I'm going to circle back to truth.

Speaker 8 I thought it was a win for him, and I thought it was a loss for Democrats. I thought he came across as resolute, as strong.
I thought he looked good. I thought he was forceful.

Speaker 8 I thought he was articulate. And I don't want to be one of those nations that digresses into a total fucking food fight in

Speaker 8 our

Speaker 8 addresses. I think that it reflects poorly on the United States.

Speaker 9 Get to the Democrats in a minute. Talk about him.
Why do you think that? I agree with you. Why do you think he did well? Even though it was the greatest hits.

Speaker 9 He did the greatest hits well, is what I thought.

Speaker 8 Well, he was just, he came across as forceful, and we are now in a situation where I have friends who have become who put out reels and just adopt every talking point, no matter how outrageous it is.

Speaker 8 But just a little bit of an economic reality check, he could declare it, America is back. Meanwhile, markets are tanking and the economy is stumbling.
GDP, the U.S. economy, the U.S.

Speaker 8 economy is contracting at the fastest rate right now since the COVID lockdowns.

Speaker 8 The Atlanta Fed has something called a GDP now model, which estimates annualized growth. And it's gone from 4% up, which is remarkable, to negative 2.8%

Speaker 8 in the last month. Consumer confidence has had its greatest drop since COVID.
Retail spending is down. Eggs up.
Trump take egg. The markets are not in free fall, but definitely declining.

Speaker 8 The NASDAQ has lost 9% in 10 days. All of the gains since the Trump month

Speaker 8 have disappeared. He has the greatest levels of disapproval of any president except one other at this time in his presidency, and that other was Trump's first term.

Speaker 8 52% saying he's ignoring the country's biggest problems. And just a little word search fun here.

Speaker 8 He mentioned Greenland three times more than affordable housing, veterans, or prescription drug costs, zero mentions of health care, zero mentions of veterans or prescription drug costs, five mentions of tax cuts for billionaires, five mentions of illegal aliens, six mentions of the Panama Canal, 13 mentions of Joe Biden, and three mentions of annexing Greenland.

Speaker 8 So

Speaker 9 don't forget Panama.

Speaker 8 It is just, and my favorite was: the days of rule by unelected bureaucrats are over while Elon Musk

Speaker 8 sat in the audience. And

Speaker 8 my second favorite,

Speaker 9 transgender mice.

Speaker 8 Oh, go ahead. Free speech, it's back.
Forgetting that on a social media post, he said he would ban illegal protests at universities and that he has barred the Associated Press from the Oval Office.

Speaker 8 So unfortunately, our leadership and our politics and even our truth have become just who can lie the most with the most confident.

Speaker 9 No, he was an effective liar. He was an effective liar.
That's what I thought. I'm like, he's lying excellently here.
And it's, and it was like, so, it was easily proven lies.

Speaker 9 The transgender mice thing was insane because it's transgenic mice and they put DNA. It's a, it's a, it's not what he was describing it as.

Speaker 9 But of course, he wins the day because it's like transgender mice. And, you know, it's ridiculous.

Speaker 8 It's ridiculous. Do you know what was just

Speaker 8 when you thought the guy couldn't get any more craven? The emotional manipulation of that

Speaker 8 girl who had her face,

Speaker 8 her nose broken, and got a concussion because of a spike from a transgender volleyball player. I just want to remind everybody before they clutch their progressive pearls.

Speaker 8 A couple of years ago on this show, I said that transgender women should not be allowed to be in sports where there is money or scholarships on the line.

Speaker 8 I said that early and often,

Speaker 8 much to the, I don't know, disappointment of many of my progressive colleagues. I have said that early and often.

Speaker 8 At the same time, demonizing a transgender girl and emotionally manipulating and using as a prop another teenage girl to try and look at her, isn't she beautiful?

Speaker 8 And she's a beautiful little girl and she had a concussion. And by the way,

Speaker 8 I played high school sports. The sport that has the greatest level of injury in the world is high school football.
High school sports are chock full of injuries. And again, see above.

Speaker 8 I do not think transgender women should be allowed to play in collegiate level. You can't have a 6'4 swimmer showing up and saying, I present as a woman and take every medal.

Speaker 8 My point is, that was just craven to

Speaker 8 create that sort of emotional manipulation and to demonize. You don't think that transgender girl who was the one who spiked the ball is probably getting fucking death threats right now?

Speaker 8 It's just bad. Nobody, no, but it's.

Speaker 8 No one wants to hurt someone else. It was just, you don't use kids as props like that.

Speaker 9 It was such, it was cheap. It was a cheap shot.
It was cheap shot, as you say. Anyway, what did you think of the Zelensky thing? Speaking of beating up on someone and planning a ridiculous attack.

Speaker 9 Purely orchestrated by Putin.

Speaker 8 Purely orchestrated by Putin. I mean, just

Speaker 8 that was planned. Vance, who doesn't have, I mean, the only thing that gave me any sort of joy there was watching literally Senator Rubio lose all of his last

Speaker 8 final specs of soul and respect for himself. And then he defended it.

Speaker 9 Then he defended it.

Speaker 8 Knowing that TikTok would come up with every time he's presented himself as a cold warrior and he just sat there literally

Speaker 8 melting into the city. Him and Lindsey Graham.

Speaker 9 Lindsey Graham. I can't believe that.

Speaker 8 I can't believe it.

Speaker 9 Listen, foghorn, leghorn. Closet in foghorn, leghorn.
Just go back to your closet.

Speaker 8 Which that reminds me. What's the difference between a garbanzo bean and a chickpea? What?

Speaker 8 I'm not going to pay 50 bucks for a garbanzo to bean on my face.

Speaker 9 I don't even know what that means.

Speaker 8 Think about it.

Speaker 8 Oh,

Speaker 8 I still don't get it. Don't need to.

Speaker 8 I pay 50 bucks for a chick to pee on my face. I really.

Speaker 8 Oh, oh, oh, oh, okay. There you go.

Speaker 14 We'll get you there.

Speaker 8 We'll get you there.

Speaker 8 I'm very simple, lady.

Speaker 9 Yes, it was depressing. And the whole thing around the outfit.
I'm not that person.

Speaker 8 I don't think very many of us are that person.

Speaker 9 Let's go back to Zelensky. The outfit, like which with Musk was there, they just have no irony.

Speaker 9 Like, they had Musk there looking like a lesbian from the 1980s, like badly dressed lesbian from the 1980s, and then they're insulting guys wearing a military uniform, his country's military uniform.

Speaker 8 We treated representatives of the Viet Com with more respect. I know.
Negotiations around the peace of it. You don't vite a world leader and then ambush them.

Speaker 8 It's just bad manners, and you lose credibility.

Speaker 9 You know, his people are like, good job. Like, good job that they, they went after him.
And like, go, go, fella. It's so ridiculous.
Ooh, God. It was so irritated.
That was really.

Speaker 9 And then, of course, Zelensky's had to like walk it back because and say it was unfortunate. And,

Speaker 9 you know, when I re-watched it, I was like, was he that difficult? And I, just to make sure. And I was like, no, they really egged him on.
You could see it happening in real time.

Speaker 9 He certainly got a notion.

Speaker 8 He should have showed up with a big medal.

Speaker 8 We were giving you the nation's highest honor. Here you, here you are.
And here's a, here's a, here's a, here's a statue made out of six karat gold. Yeah.
It's a picture.

Speaker 8 Look how fit and trim you are.

Speaker 8 We're giving you an honorary gold medal just for being awesome.

Speaker 8 I know. Oh, it's so gross.

Speaker 8 And by the way, just a few facts about Zelensky. His grandfather fought in World War II.
He lost people in the Holocaust. He's Jewish.

Speaker 8 He was re-elected by 70% of the people. They complain about a lack of free press.

Speaker 8 Britain didn't allow.

Speaker 8 He has not banned any other press unless it's Russian propaganda, just as the UK did. They wouldn't allow fascist papers to run pro-Hitler ads while they were getting the shit bombed out of them.

Speaker 8 This guy, the greatest ROI, the greatest venture investment in history is America's mild, modest $60 billion, 70% of which is spent in the U.S., mostly red states, that has done the following.

Speaker 8 It's taken out a third of the kinetic power of Russia. It has given China pause, recognizing a small motivated army that's technically literate and backed by the West.
Think twice before you do it.

Speaker 8 And it is the best thing about all of this is that it is unifying.

Speaker 8 He is unifying Europe and he is saying to people around the world. And by the way,

Speaker 8 just a quick tangent. I heard from this kid.
I apologize. I apologize.
I've just, I got to get started. You're on a roll.
Go for it. I'm on a roll.
No, this is just personal privilege.

Speaker 8 There was this lovely young man in my fraternity at UCLA named Greg Townsend. Just everybody liked this guy.
We used to call him Towney. We went to the same high school.
He was a year younger than me.

Speaker 8 Out of the blue, I got a message out from him saying, I have a friend who's a human rights lawyer. I'd love for her to come on the the pod.

Speaker 8 You know, you know, every day people are calling us with ideas about who they think is fascinating to come on the pod, right? And I say, what are you up to?

Speaker 8 And he goes, well, I went to law school and for the last 20 years, I've been working for the UN tracking down and prosecuting war criminals. And I'm like, it's just so funny.

Speaker 8 All I remember is like listening to Led Zeppelin with this guy, and he's fucking hunting down war criminals and prosecuting them through impressive. You have impressive friends.

Speaker 8 This guy,

Speaker 8 I was so moved.

Speaker 8 I'm like, okay, I immediately went off and said, how can I party in st barts and make as much fucking money as possible and he decided to go to switzerland and get a law degree and then work with other good people to try and ensure how are we going to knit this together knit it together

Speaker 8 and and try and ensure that the incentive system is that think twice before you start murdering children and raping women under the context of war and he tracks these people down and he prosecutes them and then the cherry on top is that funding for his entire group has been stopped.

Speaker 8 Yep. And so he's not sure what he's going to do next.
And you you know what? The majority of him and his colleagues are continuing to work. Anyways, Greg Townsend, good for you, my brother.

Speaker 9 The beating up of this guy is crazy, but

Speaker 9 they think it's like sport.

Speaker 9 And then the language that the Republicans use, people like Lindsey Graham and Rubio, who are very much supportive of this, have literally lost every bit of credibility.

Speaker 9 It's embarrassing not to, and so they can say, they were so mean to Trump. They weren't mean to Trump.
They just wasn't. It wasn't.
But But that they think this is a win is pathetic.

Speaker 9 Anyway, speaking of pathetic, let's talk about the Democrats who tried all sorts of tactics during Trump's speech, none of which worked.

Speaker 9 Congressman Al Green was removed from the chamber after interrupting the speech, shaking his cane and shouting to Trump, no mandate to cut Medicaid. I didn't mind him as much.

Speaker 9 And other forms of protest, some Democrats wore pink. Some held up auction-style paddles that said false and musk steals.
A few walked out during the speech. One lady was wandering around.

Speaker 9 This is not normal behind Trump. It was juvenile.
It was so, oh, they were trying to make

Speaker 9 that check like completely. The whole thing, if you call someone Hitler, wearing pink is not the response, people.
I'm sorry. It's just not.

Speaker 9 The only person I did thought think was a good job was Senator Alyssa Slotkin gave a Democratic Response Assistance speech where she talked about the dangers of Elon and Doch.

Speaker 9 I thought she did an excellent job. Let's just listen to her and then I want your response of what you thought.

Speaker 18 While we're on the subject of Elon Musk, is there anyone in America who is comfortable with him and his gang of 20-year-olds using their own computer servers to poke through your tax returns, your health information, and your bank accounts?

Speaker 18 No oversight, no protections against cyber attack, no guardrails on what they do with your private data.

Speaker 18 We need a more efficient government. You want to cut waste? I'll help you do it.
But change doesn't need to be chaotic or make us less safe.

Speaker 9 Thought she was great. That was the only high point is a really nice response and a very clear, centrist, very, very

Speaker 9 focused on the audience, which is the American people. So what, tell me what you thought about this and what would have been an effective strategy here.

Speaker 8 One of the most powerful things about the presidency is they get the bully pulpit and they get to stand up in front of the vice president and the speaker and the cameras and the music and the majesty.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 they get to win every time they do it. And

Speaker 8 I think the whole thing reflected really poorly on Hakeem Jeffries and Democratic leadership because they clearly have no control over their constituents and their messaging is awful.

Speaker 8 We looked terrible, Kara.

Speaker 8 We looked reckless, immature, beside ourselves. You don't think that emboldens Republicans when they see us acting this way? What could they do? The bottom line is there's not a lot to do.

Speaker 8 You sit there, you're polite.

Speaker 8 There's probably a couple things you can clap for when they welcome whatever, a war veteran. You can stand up and applaud.
And other than that, you just sit there and

Speaker 8 fine. I don't even think that's a good idea because I don't, eventually we're going to digress to only half the chamber shows up for every presidential address.

Speaker 8 And I think there's a certain level, there's a certain level of decorum. But they, this is, again, the Democrats have consistently

Speaker 9 shown

Speaker 8 that they do not have discipline and they do not have leadership and they do not have good messaging right now. They haven't gotten their shit together.

Speaker 9 I was like, ow, ow, ow, ow, ow. This is not going to be a viral moment.

Speaker 8 This is it disgusted me when one of the squad put up the sign saying genocide when Netanyahu spoke.

Speaker 8 You just don't, you don't show up with swords.

Speaker 9 It's not the place for it. It's not the place for it.

Speaker 8 Anyway, I like a good protest.

Speaker 8 I thought it was a loss for us.

Speaker 9 So

Speaker 9 what would be effective in the strategy? Just sit there quietly? Or is there an effective strategy?

Speaker 8 i mean obviously some people are doing things pete buddha judge is appearing everywhere it seems like what would be an effective strategy from your perspective i do judge carville saying do nothing play for dead for right now because you're not going to win anything you look stupid that was well there's tactical and then there's strategic on the tactical you just show up you're polite you're the adults in the room you nod you get someone fantastic as we did to give the response the response is a thankless job because you just can't command the majesty of the lighting or the camera angles she did did a competent slash good job.

Speaker 8 You sit there, you're polite. You have more respect for the flag and the rotunda than you do your tribal censors.
And we did not do that.

Speaker 8 We showed that we were reckless and we're like a kid coming home who is polite all day and then just vomits his or her emotions, speaking for a friend who's a parent, and give mom and dad

Speaker 8 and give mom and dad just like, who is this terrorist who just walked through the door? And by the way, in the parent-teachers conference, everyone's, he's just such a good kid at school.

Speaker 8 He's so polite.

Speaker 9 He I literally said that to Saul the other day. He was like run in terror at the house.
I was like, do you do this at school? He goes, no.

Speaker 8 They won't let me. Yeah, no.
Yeah. And then you read all these child books saying, it's because they trust and love you.
I'm like, well, I wish they trusted and loved me a little bit less.

Speaker 8 I agree. On a strategic level,

Speaker 8 you pick one or two issues, don't go after all these ridiculous DEI, transgender, Greenland, Panama.

Speaker 8 You go after a small set of issues, a surrender to the American brand now means surrender, measles, and inflation. And I would focus on those three things.
I'd bring in experts. I'd be thoughtful.

Speaker 8 I'd be data-driven. And then I would fucking shut down the government.
I would go upstream of Elon Musk and saying, no, we're not raising the debt limit. No, we are shutting down the government.

Speaker 8 You want to play hardball? Fine.

Speaker 9 That's what the Republicans would do. That's what the Republicans would do.
And they did, you know, that's what they do. I agree with you.
I thought it was embarrassing.

Speaker 9 I thought they're trying to create a viral moment. It was sort of like, hey, kids, look what we're going to do.
And

Speaker 9 people should be relentlessly critical of this, of what they're doing. It doesn't have any discipline.

Speaker 9 I mean, in a weird way, they kept shooting to Nancy Pelosi, who did sit there quietly, by the way. Did you notice that? She was.

Speaker 8 She understands the decorum.

Speaker 9 She looked sour, definitely. But I have to say, I was thinking, this wouldn't happen under Nancy Pelosi.
I'll tell you that.

Speaker 8 She was distracted. She was trading options on Robin Hood.
No, Stephen.

Speaker 9 I'm just saying, she ran that place with the Democrats very tight. Like, she had them tightly organized.
I thought Hakeem Jeffries did a bad job. He had no control over these people.

Speaker 9 And again, if you think this guy is Hitler, that is not the response. This is not the

Speaker 9 something much more significant.

Speaker 8 You know what the Republicans have that we don't have? They have synchronicity. The synchronicity between think tanks,

Speaker 8 between

Speaker 8 their media and their leadership and their talking points, they are a well-oiled machine. And

Speaker 8 we are flailing around. We are, you know,

Speaker 8 we define the term seizure. We're just out of control, our limbs flailing in different directions and have no control of ourselves.

Speaker 8 And you watch it, you watch what's going on, our response, and it's just sort of uncomfortable. It's like, okay, we got to be able to do better than this.
Yep, I agree.

Speaker 9 I had a really interesting back and forth with Mike Berbigley over this because they sent him Fetterman Slams Dem's unhinged protest during Trump's speech.

Speaker 9 And we were going back and forth, but it's the what Mike was pointing out when we were going back and forth is they're not they're not thinking of the audience, right?

Speaker 9 They aren't thinking for some reason, the Democrats do not think of the audience, of like what the audience is hearing and seeing.

Speaker 9 And they were they they just weren't thinking of you know how to hit back in a way that's effective in some fashion that shows

Speaker 9 they feel so non-genuine and it feels so it's such a weak and sad you know response. I don't know.
It just.

Speaker 8 But

Speaker 8 your analysis is the right one. And that is, who is our target audience? And the people who like,

Speaker 8 the people who like a 70-something-year-old congressman from Texas waving his cane and walking and go, yeah,

Speaker 8 people, we already have those people. They're voting Democratic.
Those aren't the people we need. Who we need is the person who voted for Trump and is now having second thoughts.

Speaker 8 And you need to be thoughtful and you need to be measured and you need to show we're the adults in the room. Do you want measles?

Speaker 9 Do you want these hacker kids fucking with you? Do you like paying more for eggs? You know,

Speaker 8 we're adults. We're reasonable.
We're going to lay out the facts. We're not going to have an emotional response.

Speaker 8 We have emotional control because the people that loved and will applaud for this type who are saying, you know,

Speaker 8 stand up, walk out, yell them, good for you. Those people are on board with democratic policies.

Speaker 9 We don't need the we don't need to convince those people of anything we got to go after the people who voted for trump and be ubiquitous with the messaging i mean it was interesting i have an idea for i have an idea for kamala harris for a podcast you want to hear it uh sure go ahead so i think she should do a podcast called recently unemployed with kamala harris and go around and talk to people about the economy go to places she's not welcome and make herself a nuisance like in that regard like talk to them and go around.

Speaker 9 But I was thinking all of them have to feel like they're listening to the American people, right? That they're listening and they're present and they're responding and listening.

Speaker 9 I know it sounds like Bill Clinton really listened, felt like he was listening. I don't know.

Speaker 8 That's yeah.

Speaker 8 My recommendation around what she should do is is nothing. She's a reminder of how badly we fucked up.

Speaker 8 It would be bad.

Speaker 8 I'm sorry.

Speaker 8 And by the way, I saw Secretary Clint last night at Shea Margot in New York.

Speaker 8 She's just out of nowhere. I'm like, I know that woman.
I wanted to go up and say I love her. Did you say hi? Say hi to her.
Say I'm Karis. I was so intimidated.
I was so intimidated. Sankham Karis.

Speaker 8 I was doing my favorite thing. I was drinking at the bar alone.
No joke.

Speaker 9 Next time you're going up to her.

Speaker 8 I thought her Secret Service people are on attack, like that tall, weird-looking dude who's alone drinking. Anyways, but when you lose,

Speaker 8 you take a break for a while because all she's going to do is remind people, quite frankly, of why we lost. And this is what Vice President Harris should do.

Speaker 8 Absolutely fucking lutely nothing until we have a Democratic president who appoints her to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 8 She's just not,

Speaker 8 quite frankly, no mercy, no malice brand perspective. She should do nothing.

Speaker 8 I don't agree with you.

Speaker 9 I think

Speaker 9 she was just beginning to be, she improved a lot. I don't think she did that bad a job compared.

Speaker 8 I think Biden agreed.

Speaker 8 That she didn't. Everything you're saying is true.
And the reality is she's a reminder.

Speaker 8 of the policies and reasons we lost. And she should just stay out of the line.
In terms of just what's good for Democrats Democrats right now,

Speaker 8 she should, quite frankly, just be under the radar.

Speaker 9 A Democrat has to step up and feel ubiquitous in the very least, you know, and feel like they're

Speaker 9 speaking to Americans, right? Again, I think that's Mark Cuban, as you know.

Speaker 8 You know who's having a moment, and you were right on this and I was wrong is your guy, Fetterman. Yeah, Fetterman is.

Speaker 9 Fetterman is. Not everything that he's doing, I like.

Speaker 8 Well, then he's let's we vote him off the island.

Speaker 8 He doesn't align perfectly with my ideas.

Speaker 9 No, sometimes he can be obnoxious. I

Speaker 9 He could be a little nicer. That's all I'm saying.
All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll discuss the latest on Trump's trade war.

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Speaker 9 Scott, we're back with our second big story. U.S.
automakers got a one-month break from Donald Trump's 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico.

Speaker 9 The tariffs went into effect on Tuesday, roiling markets and creating headaches for companies in the U.S. and around the world.

Speaker 9 Canada quickly announced retaliatory tariffs with the very handsome Justin Trudeau doing it. Mexico is announcing countermeasures.
She's also fantastic, the president of Mexico, this week.

Speaker 9 China is also taking action after Trump added 10% to existing tariffs.

Speaker 9 Trump acknowledged in his address to Congress that there would be a little disturbance from these tariffs, but he's okay with that.

Speaker 9 But then he turned it around, which means he only wants to sort of threaten American companies, it felt like. He's trying to like let certain people in and pay homage to him and this and that.

Speaker 9 So stocks have been on a roller coaster, as you know, during the last few days with Dow falling almost 700 points on Tuesday.

Speaker 9 The markets rebounded on Wednesday on the news that automakers were getting the exemption. It's such a fucking game.
It feels so deep state and manipulative. And anyway,

Speaker 9 we'll see more exemptions. And if you're a CEO right now, it would be very hard to know what to do.
Target and Best Buy CEO is already warning about price increases.

Speaker 9 And is the rest rest of the world just going to start doing business without the U.S. if these tariffs continue?

Speaker 9 Warren Buffett looks like he's sick to his fucking stomach.

Speaker 9 The first time he didn't respond, he said tariffs were ridiculous and it's a tax on the little guy.

Speaker 9 But then when someone asked him about the economy, he's like, I'm not going to comment, which is bad news because Warren Buffett always gives the straight scoop on things. What do you think?

Speaker 8 Put the moral arguments aside, we have established amazing economic trade relationships and trust and rule of law and reciprocal.

Speaker 8 When I'm in the Gulf, I have a speaking gig in the Gulf, and then October the 7th happens and I make some comments that

Speaker 8 they find disagreeable and they cancel the speaking contract.

Speaker 8 We have a contract. And nowhere in that contract did it say, you're not allowed to say certain things.
And then we point it out and they say, you're right. We respect rule of law.

Speaker 8 We've got a great trading relationship. We're going to come to a settlement.

Speaker 8 We have established really strong economic relationships with the world's largest economies over the last 80 years that benefits them and benefits us.

Speaker 8 And one of the key tenets of American capitalism democracy is we believe in lifting up people all around the world, that economic prosperity, if it's shared, we all do just much better.

Speaker 8 And we have amazing trading relationships with the world's largest economies.

Speaker 8 And we are taking them and saying to those economies, figure out alliances and relationships and trade routes and supply chains and legal agreements with each other and go around us and exclude us and be less inclined to trade with us moving forward.

Speaker 8 Because even if he drops these tariffs,

Speaker 8 They can't trust us.

Speaker 8 They can't start clearing off all Jack Daniels off of all shelves and figuring out how on earth are they going to reconfigure the supply chain of cars.

Speaker 8 By the way, with these tariffs, cars are going to cost, if these tariffs hold, an additional $12,000.

Speaker 8 Each car,

Speaker 8 people don't realize, cars, General Motors cars, those big American trucks, the parts go back and forth across the Mexican and Canadian borders numerous times. So you're talking about another...

Speaker 8 another $12,000. More than half of America's produce comes from Mexico.
Everything's about to 99% of shoes in America are imported. You're going to see this everywhere.

Speaker 9 Crazy stuff. There was, what was it, sledgehammers? It was like a bunch of like something else that was so strange.
And I was, I had no idea it was made in Canada besides maple syrup. I got that one.

Speaker 8 The average U.S. household is going to see prices go up by $1,200 each year.
And when you're, the average household makes, what is it, $68,000 or $70,000, call it $55,000 after taxes.

Speaker 8 That's a difference between being able to go on vacation or not.

Speaker 9 So what about these exemptions? Because a lot of people feel that he is sort of trying to get companies in line with him. Like, make sure you're on my side.
He's mob boss.

Speaker 8 Mob boss.

Speaker 9 That's what it feels like. He's hate mob boss, like, hey, you know, you pay me.

Speaker 8 And by the way, it started with Tim Cook who kissed his ass. And all of a sudden, the iPhone was exempt from certain tariffs.
And China.

Speaker 8 So basically, what he's doing is saying, okay, who's willing to give me money? Who's willing to kiss my ass? And then I'll figure out a workaround for you.

Speaker 8 This is what a kleptocracy is. This is corruption.
Not innovation.

Speaker 9 Again, not innovation. Not making better cars or making better anything.
It's this ridiculous bullshit. I mean, the face of Buffett really haunted me when he was talking about it.

Speaker 9 Like he's not a young man. And he's like, it was like, are you fucking kidding me? I'm 100 years old and you're pulling this shit.

Speaker 8 It's just like. I was a graduate student instructor in America Economics for Professor Christina Romer at Berkeley back in the 90s.
And we used to talk about tariffs as like

Speaker 8 an obvious example of just how stupid we were. We bring up tariffs in the early part of the

Speaker 8 century. Smooth hall.

Speaker 8 And we'd all, it was just so funny. We would kind of laugh at like, okay, this is, wait, hold on, kids.
This is what they decided to do.

Speaker 9 This is like a little economy professor.

Speaker 8 As if we had gone,

Speaker 8 it was like we literally tariffs were the economic equivalent of,

Speaker 8 in the world of medicine, of leeches. Like, can you believe they did this? Yeah, leeches.
Can you believe they thought this would work? Yeah. And here we are again.
Makes absolute fucking looks.

Speaker 9 Do you know what's going viral? Is the, it from Ferris Bueller. You know, they have the Smooth Hawley.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 8 Ben Stein.

Speaker 9 Anybody, anybody?

Speaker 9 Anyway, there's a great scene that's going around where he talks about Smoot Hawley and it was a disaster. And this is going to be a disaster.
And then they're going to do exemptions.

Speaker 9 And then it doesn't matter. And then they're mad at us.
And it doesn't matter. The whole thing is just,

Speaker 9 oh, just, it just is so embarrassing. It's just embarrassing, right? So, I mean, it's going to, this is where, speaking of rubber meets the road, when these prices go up, it's going to be problematic.

Speaker 9 And again, Democrats need to focus on that. Guess who did this? Donald Trump.
Guess why eggs are more expensive? He tried to put the eggs on Biden, but he gets the eggs.

Speaker 9 Trump take egg is the other meme, by the way, the viral meme

Speaker 9 around thing. Anyway,

Speaker 9 the world will move on without us is what they'll do.

Speaker 8 Jack Zhang, I think it's Zhang, he's a professor at the University of Kansas, summarized it perfectly with respect to

Speaker 8 tariffs are essentially, yet again, another regressive tax because lower and middle income households spend 100% of their paycheck on these products. So again, they're the ones that get hurt the most.

Speaker 8 And he summarized it perfectly. He said, it's a rich man's war and a poor man's fight.

Speaker 8 These tariffs yet again really target lower and middle class homes. It is a regressive tax.

Speaker 8 Low-income Americans spend all of their money on these, on, think about this, produce, saving for a car,

Speaker 8 eggs. I mean, these are the people that get hit the hardest.

Speaker 9 Cherry tomatoes, apparently.

Speaker 9 There was a whole bunch of really interesting that I had no idea to learn about. Anyway, it's a bad idea.
We think it's a bad idea.

Speaker 9 And Aswath, I had Aswath on talking the same thing. Every smart person I know is like, this is, and now it's being run badly.

Speaker 9 The tariffs are even being run badly by letting people out, putting people in. And that means you don't have any credibility about it.
It's a stupid negotiating tactic and you think it'll work.

Speaker 9 And same thing happened with Zelensky, where he threatened him and now Zelensky has to apologize. That's not a good outcome.
It doesn't matter that Zelensky folded.

Speaker 9 The fact that he had to fold is pathetic. The same thing here.
The fact that they put them out and then take some back,

Speaker 9 it's not a good tactic. If it doesn't, if you do this, it's just, it's just ridiculous.

Speaker 8 But we need, but going, moving to facts, all right? We get outraged. It's extortion that we're demanding rare earth minerals from Ukraine.
Okay, I get it. But now let's quickly pivot to facts.

Speaker 8 Trump has said he wants $500 billion worth of rare earth minerals from Ukraine in exchange for continued military and political support. All right, let's just, a couple facts.

Speaker 8 The entire global market for rare earth minerals is 10 to 14 billion. A rare earth mineral mined takes at least 10 years to spin up.
So let's just look at, okay, well,

Speaker 8 you're right, it's extortion. let's get angry, but let's look at the actual data and show just how ridiculous this is.
This makes no sense.

Speaker 9 You know, getting back to that thing, a lot of his points during that thing were things that sound good in concept, but aren't ever going to happen. And

Speaker 9 it's lies, ultimately. Anyway, it's time for last week's poll results, by the way.
We asked each of you which of our hosts would end up dead on a season of white light.

Speaker 8 Oh, this is going to be a shocker.

Speaker 9 I know.

Speaker 8 This is going to be a shocker. By the way,

Speaker 8 did you hear my appearance?

Speaker 9 I did. I watched it on the plane.
I was very pleased. I was very proud of you.
I was very, like, I was very proud. You did a great job.
And you're reading. Thank God Jason helped you on that one.

Speaker 9 Thank God. Thank God.
But the answer was 56% of you said Scott would end up dead on a season of White Lotus. 33% of you said both of us.
And only 11% of you said me.

Speaker 8 No surprise there.

Speaker 9 Not a surprise there.

Speaker 9 Moving moving along, it's time for this week's threads poll. Do you guys in the audience think Elon will end up doing an interview with Jon Stewart? He should.
We think you should, Elon.

Speaker 9 Go ahead, go into that, go into that lion's den. It'll be just fine because you're very strong.
Anyway, if you got a question of your own you'd like to answer, send it our way.

Speaker 9 Go to nymag.com/slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. All right, Scott, one more quick break.
We'll be back for wins and fails.

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Speaker 16 Oh my God, we built the entirely wrong product.

Speaker 15 Two shots to build the company of their dreams.

Speaker 19 With that intro, let's go.

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Speaker 9 Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. I I shall go first.

Speaker 9 I'm going to say, I was going to talk about, there's a really great

Speaker 9 column by Mike Maznik in Tech Dirt talking about how he writes about tech a lot of the time. And

Speaker 9 he's written a wonderful piece about how he's now a democracy blog. And he was talking about the importance of tech reporters to really explain what's happening.
And I agree with that.

Speaker 9 I think Wired's doing a great job. I think the Wall Street Journal has done a great job.
The New York Times has, and a lot of publications, big and small. So I think that's easy.

Speaker 9 But actually, I'm going to actually something I watched on the plane. I binged watched it.
It's called Running Point. Our friend Justin Thoreau is in it.
He's fantastic.

Speaker 9 But the star is Kate Hudson and this most astonishing group of very funny people. It's about basketball.
Essentially, it's about,

Speaker 9 it's a group called the LA Waves. It's about a basketball owner.
And it's kind of like silly and stupid and a bit of an ad for how good sports is, kind of a feel-good comedy.

Speaker 9 And critics don't like it because it's not mean and how terrible it is. But I loved it.
And I think Kate Hudson is the most adorable person ever. And it's very, very, very funny to me.

Speaker 9 I love this show. It's on Netflix again.
And I get it. I get why critics don't like it because they're snotty bitches.
But I had a great time at watching it.

Speaker 9 And I watched, I binge-watched the whole thing. And again, Justin is amazing in it among the many actors in it who are amazing.
Every single person is. But he does, he wears a shot.

Speaker 9 I wrote him, I said, Your scarf work is excellent. He plays a basket, a basketball owner,

Speaker 9 basketball team owner. Anyway, I love it.
It's really fun.

Speaker 9 My negative,

Speaker 9 I'm trying to go between, I try not to talk about people's outfits, but it's very hard this week. I'm trying to go between Elon's new haircut, which

Speaker 9 is, again, a very lesbian-level haircut from the 80s, and Zuckerberg

Speaker 9 wearing Benson Boone's powder blue jumpsuit for his wife Priscilla's birthday party.

Speaker 9 I try, Scott, but they need to stop. These people need to stop because I can't contain myself.
I think it was so performative. Everything is so performative with these people.

Speaker 9 And I want them to go away, like go away from us and stop posting themselves doing wacky, crazy things. And it feels a lot like Rome is burning and they're fiddling.

Speaker 9 So that's why I think it offends me in so many ways. Besides being so awkward, it's painful.

Speaker 9 I didn't want to see Mark Zuckerberg's chest in any way. And there it was.
And it was hard to avoid. Anyway, yours? Go for it.

Speaker 8 I just have a win. I'm trying,

Speaker 8 just because I'm such a glass half-empty kind of guy, I'm trying to focus on or having some discipline around.

Speaker 8 If you look at the world, actually, the world over the medium and long term, despite some severe hiccups in the short term, the world gets better. And so it's your default setting should be

Speaker 8 or

Speaker 8 you should always have in the back of your mind what could go right. Because generally speaking, over time, the world has gotten better.

Speaker 8 And I'm trying to think, looking at this mess and how upsetting it is,

Speaker 8 what could go right. And I think what could go right here is that I do believe a real silver lining, the size of the cloud here, is I do think that Europe is threatening to be an actual union.

Speaker 8 And if you look at most recently, the European Commission president Ursula von der Leyen, I think, is unveiled.

Speaker 9 Go ahead.

Speaker 8 She unveiled a historic $840 billion plan to increase EU defense spending. And they're now looking at going past the 2% number.
They're looking at coordinating.

Speaker 8 And what they've decided is that, and this is kind of the unintended consequence of recognizing they can no longer depend upon American consistency in the military umbrella.

Speaker 8 It really doesn't make any sense that Europe would, and they're recognizing this, that they would need to back down to Russia because Russia's GDP is about $2 trillion.

Speaker 8 The combined member states of the EU is 19 trillion.

Speaker 8 You know, Germany, France, and England all have bigger economies. Russia is just barely ahead of Spain.
It's smaller than Canada. Both Britain and France have nuclear arsenals.

Speaker 8 They have very sophisticated manufacturing and intellectual property. They have decent AI.
They have fantastic communications technology. And I believe, and this is kind of links to

Speaker 8 investments, if you look at European stocks, European value stocks on a scale of 1 to 100, 1 being the cheapest they've ever been, 100 being the most expensive,

Speaker 8 U.S. growth stocks are at 98.
And that is only 2%

Speaker 8 in history, only 2% of time have they been more expensive than they are now. European value stocks, big companies like Mercedes, L'Oreal, are at 2%, meaning 98%

Speaker 8 of time they've been more expensive. I think that Europe is finally saying, okay, we believe it.
We can't count on our rich, crazy uncle. He's gone just fucking insane.
We can't count on him.

Speaker 8 But we, as siblings, are actually very strong when we coordinate. And we're a bigger economy.
We have fantastic technology. And they have already stepped up.

Speaker 8 They immediately called a meeting

Speaker 8 in the UK. They're about to call another one in Brussels.
And Europe is really stepping up.

Speaker 8 And this really goes to not only my win, but my prediction, and that is I think you're going to see the European economy and European stocks rip.

Speaker 8 Because if you look at military spending, there really is some spillover in terms of technology.

Speaker 8 The most valuable companies in the world, Kara, are basically thick layers of innovation on top of technologies developed in the military.

Speaker 8 Apple is a function of a Cold War technology where we wanted to make sure we could put a missile in someone's pocket in terms of GPS accuracy.

Speaker 8 All of the internet was the Americans trying to figure out a node list or hublitz communications network post-a nuclear attack from Russia.

Speaker 8 The drone technology coming out of Ukraine could be, could have unbelievable applications in the consumer economy, as could AI.

Speaker 8 Anyways, my win is that Europe is finally becoming a union, commanding the space it occupies. They're going to massively increase their coordination and their military budget.

Speaker 8 And I believe the stimulus of that spending and the new technologies that'll spend over to the consumer economy are about to set European markets on a tear. And it's already happened.

Speaker 8 They're up 12% this year, largely on the back of European defense contractors that their stocks have accelerated, while the U.S. is flat.

Speaker 8 So I think this is, I think we're about to see my win is that Europe is finally a union and that I think it's going to have huge economic benefits, both stimulative and in terms of technology spillover.

Speaker 8 All right.

Speaker 8 And? That's it. That's all I got.
That's good.

Speaker 9 That's good. That's good.

Speaker 8 Just in queso.

Speaker 8 Okay. Very good.
Just in queso. Oh, my God.

Speaker 8 We're going to Austin.

Speaker 9 We're going to Austin. Are we going to have a good time? That's my win.
You and me in Austin. I miss you.

Speaker 8 There we go. We're going to have fun.
We're having fun. There we go.
We're going to hang out.

Speaker 9 There's a party. We're going to do a live pivot.
I have to also interview Chelsea Handler, who is the number one book in the country right now,

Speaker 9 and Elizabeth Warren. Yeah.
I'm doing two live things there.

Speaker 8 That's two great pieces I didn't see going together. They're not going together.
They're separate.

Speaker 9 Although I could put them together, couldn't I? No, I'm not going to do them and do them separate.

Speaker 9 Anyway, elsewhere in the Scott and Kerry Universe this week, this week in Prof G Conversation, Scott spoke with Dr. Anna Lemke, professor of psychiatry at Stanford and author of Dopamine Nation.

Speaker 9 Let's listen.

Speaker 21 Drugs in all their forms are the great human replacement. Addiction is a disease of loneliness.

Speaker 21 Even if we have a lot of great people in our lives,

Speaker 21 if we get addicted, we will isolate and we will use our drug to replace that human connection.

Speaker 21 So, and I say that because we sometimes talk about loneliness as the cause of addiction, but more often than not, what I see is that the addiction causes the loneliness.

Speaker 9 Oh, I like that. That sounds fascinating.

Speaker 8 She was saying, can I

Speaker 8 move around here?

Speaker 8 I've been thinking about this a lot,

Speaker 8 that a lot of people came up to me

Speaker 8 at a mobile world Conference to talk about this. And there's a specific addiction that I haven't spent much time thinking about because there's not a lot of good research on it.

Speaker 8 And in the last two weeks, I've had three men, two young men, one older man. And the most recent was at Mobile World Conference.
This kid came up to me. Kid, he's like 34.
He's killing it.

Speaker 8 Great family, married two kids, just killing it professionally.

Speaker 8 And he said, would you mentor me? And I'm like, boss, I don't mentor people who have their shit going. Well, the kids I mentor are really struggling and really need it.
You don't need it.

Speaker 8 And he's like, well, I have an addiction problem. And three men have said the same thing to me.
And I said, what's your addiction? And he said, porn.

Speaker 8 And it's really interesting. Porn is probably the least studied addiction because

Speaker 8 there's very little peer review or academic research because very few people want to be known as the porn professor. And if you could do that.

Speaker 9 You could fill that space, but go ahead.

Speaker 8 I'm not sure that's a good idea.

Speaker 8 I am doing a lot of research. Sprainer is the...

Speaker 9 It's on brand. Go ahead.

Speaker 8 But it really is something that we don't talk about a lot. And I could see all three of these men, when they said it to me, there was real shame in their voice.
And it's like, there's much more shame.

Speaker 8 If you say, I have an addiction to alcohol, it's kind of like, okay, if you say you have an addiction to porn, people are a little bit scared of you.

Speaker 8 Keep their kids away from you. Anyways.

Speaker 8 And I've been thinking a lot about young men and where I go to around this is I think that, and this is more advice, is that I think the best thing in life, hands down, you know, economic security, relevance, that's all important, but it's a means to an ends.

Speaker 8 And the ends, in my view, are finding someone and having kids and having a loving, a loving, prosperous family. That is the whole shooting match.

Speaker 8 And that starts with, in my view, for a lot of men, with wanting to have sex.

Speaker 8 And

Speaker 8 I think that's a wonderful thing. And I think we've pathologized it.
I was thinking, I wouldn't have graduated from UCLA

Speaker 8 if I didn't think there was a non-zero probability I might meet someone on campus and eventually have sex with them. And I know that sounds crass, but it was the truth.

Speaker 8 It was a big motivator for me to get out of the house, take risks, endure rejection. If I'd had porn on my phone and on my computer, I'm not sure I would have gone on campus every day.

Speaker 8 That's what young men are dealing with. And that is a total loss or a near total loss of mojo and risk-taking to develop the skills they need.
Here's the problem. You don't know.

Speaker 8 What you know is that your son and young men and some older men aren't getting out of the house as much, aren't taking risks, aren't developing skills, humor, kindness, demonstrating excellence.

Speaker 8 And as a result, it's this

Speaker 8 low risk, low entry means of a reasonable facsimile of a relationship called porn. I agree.

Speaker 8 And it creates unreasonable expectations on women. It creates an illusory vision of what a relationship actually is.

Speaker 9 That's my worry.

Speaker 8 Yep. And you don't, and I think about it.
I spend so much time enduring rejection from women and developing skills such that occasionally I could get lucky and taking risks. And guess what?

Speaker 8 Those skills have served me well my entire life.

Speaker 9 It's also, you know, it is. And it's another thing I've been talking about here.
It's frictionless, right? It creates a lack of friction.

Speaker 9 And friction is good for, and tech people constantly talk about frictionless experience. They want everything frictionless so that you just sit there and don't go anywhere.

Speaker 9 And it creates growth for them.

Speaker 8 And it creates, creates friction is the best thing that can happen to people like problems friction mistakes and so well thinking of just just speaking of kate hudson the reason romantic comedies are two hours and not 15 minutes is this shit is hard and it's worth it and where i end up with is where i tell young men modulate i can't tell young men not to engage in porn but modulate it such that you have the fire to develop the mojo the effort the skills and willingness such that you can make your own bad porn that's the key porn is great as long as you're involved with another being.

Speaker 8 Great. Is it great? No, you know what I mean? Sex.
And we have, to a certain extent,

Speaker 8 we've sort of demonized or chastised or pathologized young men wanting to have sex. That's a great thing.

Speaker 8 Want sex.

Speaker 9 I'd rather have them have sex than have porn. That is absolutely true.
Anyway, here we are. Anyway, and Kate Hudson's adorable.
She really is. Okay, Scott, that's the show.

Speaker 9 We will see you in Texas, in Austin, with a live pivot. We'll be back on Tuesday with more pivot.
Please read us out.

Speaker 8 Today's show is produced by Lara Names, Lee Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertod engineered this episode.
Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Ms. Severio, and Dan Shulan.

Speaker 8 Yeshak Kirwa is Fox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 4 Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com/slash pod.

Speaker 8 We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. I will see you in the great state of Texas.

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