Twitter’s Suing the Government of India and Yet Another Mass Shooting in America

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Speaker 12 hi everyone this is pivot from new york magazine and the vox media podcast network i'm kara swisher and i'm scott galloway so scott how was your long weekend it was really nice the highlight was um we're in colorado and

Speaker 2 The municipality here has made this wonderful decision. They no longer do fireworks.
They do a laser show. And

Speaker 2 for dog owners everywhere, it's just such a gift because July 4th is

Speaker 2 a day of anxiety and hysteria and fear for dogs.

Speaker 2 And so we had

Speaker 2 a wonderful 4th in the great state of Colorado. And yeah, so it was nice.
How was yours?

Speaker 12 It was good. I was in Vermont.
It was nice. It was nice.
It was very simple. Yeah.
A lot of trees. A lot of trees.
A lot of trees.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 12 It was very lovely by a lake. And it's very, the kids love it.
So

Speaker 12 there's a lot of news. Obviously, we're going to get to the shooting in Illinois, which was horrible at a parade.

Speaker 12 I was at a parade like that, and I can't even imagine the horror that those people went through, but we'll go into that in a second. Today, governments around the world are coming for big tech.

Speaker 12 We'll also look at the impacts of this tragic shooting over the holiday, and then we'll take a listener question on Super Apps, Scott's favorite topic. But first, Boris Johnson, Brexit stage right.

Speaker 2 There you go.

Speaker 12 He's resigned as leader of Britain's Conservative Party following a flood of resignations by members of his own government. You know, sort of someone said it was the ships, the ship fleeing the rats.

Speaker 12 Johnson's latest troubles began when he backed an unpopular deputy who was accused of groping two men while drunk. Johnson says he'll remain as prime minister until a replacement can be found.

Speaker 12 It went on and on. He wasn't going to do it.
There was a whole thing around Larry the Cat online. Some of the best tweets.

Speaker 12 There's a cat who stands in front of 10 Downing Street, and he was tweeting up a storm about trying to get rid of him and saying there's food inside, but he'll eat it by morning. And

Speaker 12 so, so what do you think of that? Are you up for the job, Scott? And what are you going to do there in your newfound country?

Speaker 2 Well, I'm glad you finally recognize that I am the man for the job.

Speaker 2 I think that just makes a lot of sense. Low bar.
Low bar. So look, I think it's...

Speaker 2 I think it's a good thing. So Boris was there three years.
Theresa May before him was there three years.

Speaker 2 And I do think

Speaker 2 we have swung too far

Speaker 2 in the U.S. to seniority and incumbent strengths the incumbents.
I mean, think about this. The reasons he's been basically forced to resign

Speaker 2 would just be like a bad press cycle for a president or a congressman or a senator here.

Speaker 12 For President Trump, yeah. Now, these days, it used to be what people got resigned for, but not today because Trump is sort of raising.

Speaker 2 This wouldn't have taken down any president in modern-day American history.

Speaker 2 I mean, I'm sorry, a cabinet person groped two men and they did, they didn't didn't disclose, they weren't as forthcoming as they should have been.

Speaker 12 I mean, yeah,

Speaker 12 it was on the heels of the party gate, it was on the heels of all kinds of lies. He persistently lies.
He's hello, he lied, is pretty much what he says.

Speaker 2 Let me be clear.

Speaker 2 I think it was wonderful that these ministers said, I am not comfortable with the integrity and the complexion of this administration. I'm going to resign.

Speaker 2 And so many people began resigning that he resigned. That does not happen in America.
No. And when we basically have a nursing home running for president,

Speaker 2 and we have absolutely

Speaker 2 we have a, in Germany, their superior court,

Speaker 2 by the time they're 68 or they've served 12 years, whichever comes first, they are booted out. You need churn.

Speaker 2 You need accountability.

Speaker 2 And one of us, one of us, the Britain and the U.S., has that. The other does not.

Speaker 2 The other has a level of ossification and a tolerance for just ridiculously insane, treasonous behavior, in my view. So

Speaker 2 I look at, I never thought, I always thought Boris Johnson was sort of a Trump-like figure, incredible political instincts,

Speaker 2 totally pivoting from one issue to the other with absolutely no ability to maintain any sort of long-term planning or strategy.

Speaker 2 You know, he always was going to go down as a function of errors of, you know, self-inflicted errors. But this is what happens in Britain.
You do a fraction of this shit and they boot you out.

Speaker 2 So I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 12 It's interesting. What's interesting is there's other people up for, they're going to, they don't vote on the next person.

Speaker 12 The conservatives will vote, and then there'll be an election with Labor and conservatives, essentially. There's other parties there.
But I'm explaining your new country to you. But

Speaker 12 they're going to pick someone. And it's interesting.
The whole list contains a lot of people of color and women, but the person who's top for the job is a man, a white guy, which is a big surprise.

Speaker 12 But there's a very interesting range of candidates,

Speaker 12 many of whom resigned. One of them is the foreign minister, a woman who actually stuck with him till the end, which may be bad for her.
But we'll see. The cat remains.
That's all we have to know.

Speaker 12 And your country is in good hands again. We'll see.

Speaker 2 But you brought up just one key point of differentiation, and that is if you look at Canada, Australia, and the UK, they have a parliamentary system. We have a presidential system.

Speaker 2 And that is they elect really the primary the the key fulcrum or the key the key election is they elect a party to power. And then the party picks their leader.
Here we elect a president.

Speaker 2 And the founding fathers wanted more checks and balances. And what's happened is, as a function of that, we can get nothing done.

Speaker 2 So when Israel or the UK or Australia or Canada elects a party, the leader of that party can then say, okay, there's been a mass shooting. Why don't we ban assault rifles?

Speaker 2 And the party goes, yeah, makes sense. Let's do that.
And they can actually get shit done. So we have a checks and balances system that has created tremendous intransigence, which

Speaker 2 I think the parliamentary system is showing that in a modern day with this type of information age cycle and polarization is probably a more effective mechanism of governance than one we have.

Speaker 12 Well, or a different way to nominate the primary system. I think we could probably fix that with a bunch of other things.

Speaker 12 Anyway, he was also was super controversial and sloppy and a liar, essentially. And he had secret children,

Speaker 2 everything.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, secret children.

Speaker 12 Secret children.

Speaker 2 Now, secret children.

Speaker 2 that was my,

Speaker 12 that was my, I'm just going to let you go. Elon Musk fathered a pair of twins with a top executive of one of his companies.

Speaker 12 The twins were born in November of last year to Siobhan Zillis, who works for Musk at Neuralink, formerly worked at Tesla.

Speaker 12 They aren't the only secret children.

Speaker 12 Musk children born last year. In December, Musk had his second child with artist Grimes, which is only revealed in May.

Speaker 12 I don't know what to say. No one's accusing Musk of impropriety.
This woman's obviously working with him because they're changing the name of the children to Musk in court.

Speaker 12 He has triplets, two pairs of twins and two kids with grinds. That's what he's got now.

Speaker 12 But having your kids with your employees is unusual, I guess. It's happened, though.
It's happened at Google. It happened a bunch of places.

Speaker 12 So anyway, in court filings, Musk and Zillis both list multi-million dollar Austin home as their residence, furthering the mystery of where Musk actually lives.

Speaker 12 So I don't know. I don't know what to say.
A lot of people were like, you shouldn't be sleeping with someone at work. I don't know their situation.
I don't know the rules at Tesla and Neuralink.

Speaker 12 I'm certain they're looser than many corporations. What do you think about this?

Speaker 2 So look,

Speaker 2 you can't fiercely advocate for a person's right to

Speaker 2 terminate a pregnancy and then criticize people for having kids. It's his right.

Speaker 2 If he wants to have kids and women consenting partners want to have kids with him, he has a lot of resources.

Speaker 2 He might be one of those dads who's able to juggle a lot of balls and still be an engaged father. These kids are not going to want for anything.
I do think it's his personal life.

Speaker 2 I'm not, I don't think it's right to judge him. I think it's his business.

Speaker 2 The part that it gets a little dicey is that when he's showing up and telling his workers they have to be in the office full-time, even though he has three or four companies, when the president of one of his companies is coming out and saying that payment.

Speaker 2 This is a flight attendance situation. And that was an allegation.
So fine,

Speaker 2 it's not fair to,

Speaker 2 but it did come out that they paid them off. And then just a few weeks later, it comes out that a subordinate gave birth to twins.
So

Speaker 2 the reality is, okay, most CEOs would be out. Any woman who did anything remotely like this would not only be out, but have a scarlet letter on her chest for the rest of her professional life.

Speaker 2 So it just goes to this notion that he does get to live by a different set of rules and standards. And I got to be honest.
I mean,

Speaker 2 I mean, really think this through. I don't know why this makes me so happy.
I was kidding when I read this. The guy had not one, not two, but three kids within two weeks of one another last year.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.
The good news is every, I can't imagine every, every Mormon wakes up every morning and goes, thank Christ, he's not a Mormon. Could you imagine this activity if he was a Mormon? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 12 Anyway, here's the deal. Here's the deal.
We don't know the rules within Tesla. A lot of companies have different rules.
You know, Bill Gates met his wife at work.

Speaker 12 This happened. Of course, then he had those other issues.

Speaker 12 It happens all the time,

Speaker 12 we don't know the rules and we don't know their relationship. Maybe it seems like they're living together.

Speaker 2 No rules. We know the rules.
There are no fucking rules for one guy. There are no rules.
There are only rules for everybody else.

Speaker 12 Depends on the things. Anyway, congratulations, I guess.

Speaker 2 Let me guess.

Speaker 2 You think he disclosed it and it was

Speaker 2 and she was transferred away from any influence from him like most companies would do?

Speaker 12 No, no, I don't.

Speaker 2 I don't.

Speaker 12 And there's no information.

Speaker 2 The topper is, okay, nine kids by three women, And he's got a hermetically signed agreement to buy Twitter for $54 a share. Why does this all make me so happy, Kara? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Why does this all make me so happy?

Speaker 12 It's interesting because when he was just having the second kid, I think I joked with him

Speaker 12 when he had the first baby with crimes. I'm like, I'm almost caught up to you.

Speaker 2 And he went, like, now I understand.

Speaker 12 It was funny. And he's been tweeting a lot about having how the Western world doesn't have to be.

Speaker 2 They need more kids.

Speaker 12 Anyway, speaking of angry Twitter barons, there's a beef between Bezos and Biden again. Like Bezos is tweeting it up again.

Speaker 12 Biden tweeted this week that gas stations should lower prices for the cost of the product.

Speaker 12 In response, the former Amazon CEO tweeted, ouch, inflation is far too important a problem for the White House to keep making statements like this.

Speaker 12 It's either straight-ahead misdirection or deep misunderstanding of basic market dynamics.

Speaker 12 The White House press secretary Karine Jean-Pierre responded by saying, I guess it's not surprising that you think oil and gas companies using market power to reap record profits at the expense of American people is the way our economy is supposed to work.

Speaker 12 Ooh, well, I think, I don't know, Bezos is on his own. He's a citizen.
He could say what he wants, although it's interesting.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but that statement by Biden was populist bullshit. I mean, companies,

Speaker 2 he wasn't telling gas companies to raise their prices when the Texas economy wasn't doing well and oil companies were in the shitter.

Speaker 2 And the notion that all of a sudden he's going to get morally indignant at companies.

Speaker 2 I mean, the oil industry for the last 20 years has not been, it's been, hasn't been a great industry. And now they're making money.

Speaker 2 But again, the primary driver, if he wants to lecture or wave his finger at anybody, he should wave it at Vladimir Putin.

Speaker 2 About, I think about 50% of the price per gallon is about, is, is the oil, is, is the price of oil. So to start, to start kind of lecturing, you know, U.S.
oil companies.

Speaker 12 There's not much you can do. You know, he wants to look like he's mad at people.
I agree. Biden is.
is misspeaking here.

Speaker 2 But he's made some really stupid, his other stupid decision was to try and have a gas tax holiday. Yeah.
Let me get this. We're trying to get people off of SUVs and off of internal combustion engines.

Speaker 2 So we're going to give them...

Speaker 12 Yeah, a lot of the climate people were pretty pissed about.

Speaker 2 I think Bezos is taking an easy, an easy shot at stupid policy. I think President Biden, on this one issue, I think he's been a fantastic stabilizing force.
I think he's a good man.

Speaker 2 I think he's gotten us, pulled us away from the edge of the city.

Speaker 12 It is interesting that Bezos never said a word about Trump, even though Trump even attacked him rather viciously. And then suddenly he's Mr.
Blah, blah.

Speaker 12 But I guess he was the CEO of Amazon at the time. Who knows?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I think they all, I think, when the camera's on or they have an employee meeting and they see how young and how many of them live in Brooklyn, I think they all pretend to be much more progressive than they are.

Speaker 2 Not all. I think they're closeted.
They call themselves libertarians. They're really Republicans.

Speaker 12 Yeah, yeah, we'll see. We'll see.
I agree. I agree.
They love their moolah. Anyway, speaking of feuds, Gavin Newsom is coming for Ron DeSantis.

Speaker 12 Newsome ran ads on Fox affiliates in Florida telling residents to join us in California over the holiday weekend. Let's listen to a clip.

Speaker 13 Republican leaders, they're banning books, making it harder to vote, restricting speech in classrooms, even criminalizing women and doctors.

Speaker 13 I urge all of you living in Florida to join the fight or join us in California, but we still believe in freedom.

Speaker 12 That made me laugh. I don't know.
I thought it was good. What do you think?

Speaker 2 It's simple. This is him announcing his running for president.
Yeah, as you noted. There's just absolutely no reason he would do this.
He's not trying to raise money out of Florida. He's not trying.

Speaker 2 There's no reason to antagonize the governor of the fourth largest state when you're the largest state.

Speaker 2 This is nothing but deciding to play offense and is about as transparent as a press release that I, Gavin Newsom, the governor of California, am running for president. And I see my competition as you.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to start shit posting about you.

Speaker 12 So what do you think of it, though? What did you, did you like it? Did you?

Speaker 2 not like it i do like it i i i do not like all the shitposting uh from these tech executives who make all of their money in California.

Speaker 2 California, in addition to being the most beautiful, if California was a country, much less a state, it'd be the most beautiful nation in the world.

Speaker 2 Nothing matches the collision of sea, sky, and land.

Speaker 2 Nothing matches the alchemy that has created the most innovative culture in the history of mankind that has generated so much wealth that white guys from Stanford who conflate luck with talent, make billions of dollars, and then leave the state to recognize that capital gain at a lower tax rate and immediately start shit posting about the problems in California.

Speaker 2 California has huge problems, but it is just not, when you have made billions of dollars because of the positives of California, regarding the negatives of California, keep it to your fucking self.

Speaker 12 Yeah, it's shabby.

Speaker 12 You know that. You know, I'm always like, leave.
Your girlfriend doesn't like you anymore. Anyway, I enjoyed it.
I thought it was very saucy.

Speaker 12 I think a lot of people liked it because a lot of Democrats think Biden's not being aggressive enough. And so they like aggression.
The same thing with governor of Illinois, Pritzker.

Speaker 12 And there's going to be more of that from Democrats, like more like kicking ass of Republicans, I think, which is fine. I liked it.
I thought it was a good ad. He's a handsome man.

Speaker 2 It worked. You need it.
We need a handsome president. Handsome presidents are more effective.
Yeah. Yeah.
Tall, handsome president.

Speaker 12 If it's Mark Cuban, we get to go, we'll have a good time at the White House. It'll be fun.
Are you?

Speaker 2 Oh, that's right. Didn't Governor Newsom marry you?

Speaker 12 No. Oh, I thought he married you.
No. But I do know him very well.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I do know him very well.

Speaker 12 Yes. Yes.
Maybe we'll be seeing him soon at some event that I'm running, but we'll see.

Speaker 2 Weren't you excited? I was excited to see it.

Speaker 2 It really triggered something. Whoever did it, it was a bold,

Speaker 2 aggressive, and smart move. It made me excited about Governor Newsom for president.

Speaker 12 Yeah, he's an interesting character. I know there's a lot of hair on that dog, but I do think he's interesting.
Okay, let's get to our first big story.

Speaker 12 Speaking of Illinois and the governor there, who gave a very heartfelt speech, there's been yet another mass shooting in America.

Speaker 12 A shooter killed seven people during the 4th of July parade in Highland Park, Illinois. The alleged gunman planned the attack for weeks and disguised himself as a woman to hide his identity.

Speaker 12 His online presence suggests that he has a strong fascination with violence. There's a ton of online presence for this guy.
Two of his music videos depicted shootings.

Speaker 12 He posted thousands of times to an online forum dedicated to sharing violent content. This guy was deep into tech stuff.
Like, it's really interesting.

Speaker 12 And of course, of course, Tucker Carlson blamed women and the internet, but nonetheless, I think we should blame the shooter. He's admitted to it, apparently.

Speaker 12 His father also gave him permission to buy these guns after a lot of incidents, a lot of violent incidents.

Speaker 12 So, after you've all heard unusual arguments about how to prevent mass shootings, do any of them apply here? You can't harden a parade against shooters.

Speaker 12 You can't police every single rooftop around every single gathering in America. No one left a door open for the shooter.

Speaker 12 This is a really difficult thing. Now, you have talked a lot about young men and their isolation, and this guy seemed deeply disturbed and isolated, especially in the online space.

Speaker 12 I don't blame online for that, but thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 Well, just as it relates to mental illness and men who are failing or struggling, there are a lot of reasons, good reasons, to allocate more resources and destigmatize mental illness.

Speaker 2 There are a lot of reasons, I think, to make

Speaker 2 an incremental or bigger investment, not so much in young males, because I think that'll become too politicized, but in our youth, where we have seen their opportunities for the first time, a man at the age or a woman at the age of 30 is not doing as well as his or her parents of the same age.

Speaker 2 Cost of education skyrocketing. Social media has made a lot of them feel very isolated.
A lot of young men, biologically, societally, and economically, are failing relative to every other cohort.

Speaker 2 They are alone. They are broke.
And a lot of them turn to very damaging behavior.

Speaker 2 And the thing I worry about, and I've asked, I think I told you this, I've been asked to go on CNN and other networks and talk about the link between failing young men and their emotional health and mass shootings.

Speaker 2 And it's dangerous to conflate mental illness and these mass shootings because I believe it has been used as a weapon of mass distraction from the real problem. And that is in the U.S.,

Speaker 2 we don't really over-index on

Speaker 2 mental illness. What we over-index on is that the mentally ill people we have have access to weapons of war and care.

Speaker 2 And in addition to that, if you looked at the mass shooters, the majority of them, the day before the mass shooting, would likely not qualify as mentally ill or at least not reach the qualification where you could

Speaker 2 incarcerate them or demand

Speaker 2 take away their rights.

Speaker 2 So I find, unfortunately, I think the conversation around mental illness and failing young men in this country is a huge conversation around the importance of our economy, the importance of people's well-being, the importance of people to attach to others, the importance of household formation, the importance of getting young men away from misogynistic and anti-climate and conspiracy content.

Speaker 2 But I worry that this is mental illness and this discussion is being used as nothing but a distraction. Because here's the reality, when you're talking about mentally ill,

Speaker 2 they're more likely to be the subject or the victims of violence than the perpetrators. And so to immediately go to the mental illness card and say, oh, he was mentally ill.

Speaker 12 Well, that's what the Republicans, come on, that's what they do.

Speaker 12 They don't want to, I think one of the issues is that this guy got a gun after several disturbing incidents with his family, by the way, which never,

Speaker 12 they just, you know, they thought he was going to harm them. And then

Speaker 12 the family said, oh, it's fine. You know, that's, which I can see a family doing, you know, after calling the police, after being nervous.

Speaker 12 And then the father signed on for a weapon of mass, like one of these, you know,

Speaker 12 velocity rifles kind of thing. And so that the age gating of certain weapons seems to be just the way we talk about the age gating of certain social media networks.
It's we gate everything else.

Speaker 12 Why not this? And that's, you know, they need to be assault, the ban on assault weapons,

Speaker 12 maybe not everybody, but certainly people under 25. It's, you know, you could just have the statistics.
And that's what it means. And I do think this online radicalization is problematic.

Speaker 12 I I think it feeds into the entire thing. I do not think it's to blame.
I hate when I saw all these people. And listen, I'm very critical of these companies.

Speaker 12 They did have a lot of warning. They just, I don't think they can monitor this stuff.
I don't think it's who knows what's the line between obnoxious videos and I'm going to act and shoot people.

Speaker 12 It's, you, I don't know how you, it's impossible. It's impossible.

Speaker 2 If you were to attempt to say, all right, we're going to identify young men who are estranged, feel a loss of social status, are behaving strangely.

Speaker 2 It is very difficult to discern what is truly dangerous teenager behavior from what is just teenager behavior.

Speaker 2 And it would be incorrect to stigmatize every male introvert that exhibits depressed or lonely or

Speaker 2 social, you know, stressed behavior as a potential shooter. That's going to do more harm than good.

Speaker 2 And a lot of what you're talking about go to gun control, specifically red flag laws, where we say, okay,

Speaker 2 if you want to have a weapon, you have to meet certain standards in the household. I also think there's issues around liability.
But you're, again, it all comes back to

Speaker 2 how do we ensure that these guns don't get into the wrong hands. And it's always a weapon.
This guy bought the guns legally. They are weapons of war.

Speaker 2 They do tremendous, I mean, anyways,

Speaker 2 it just feels like this. We're playing the same movie over and over, and the Republicans in the NRA will go to mental illness, which

Speaker 2 is a huge problem for our society.

Speaker 2 In this case, it's nothing but distraction in its attempt to obfuscate from the real issue here, and that is we have to, we need much more stringent gun control laws.

Speaker 2 And you pointed out something, the best regulation we could ever have for guns or for gun control is a 25th birthday. A lot of this would go away.

Speaker 2 The mass shootings, not the deaths by suicide, which are the majority of gun deaths, is somebody feels, wakes up and says, my world is black. There is no way out today.

Speaker 2 And rather than acknowledging what is almost always the truth, and that is, you will get better, you will feel better, they think, I know, I have a gun. I can end this right now.
So

Speaker 2 there's a,

Speaker 2 you know, it's a nuanced, complex issue. But in this case, the people talking about mental illness aren't really the ones that care about mental illness.

Speaker 2 They're the ones that care about distracting us from the real issue. Right.
They don't.

Speaker 12 They don't. It's like the, it's like anti-it's anti-abortion, people caring about the kids that are actually born, as George Carlin says.

Speaker 12 I just,

Speaker 12 I never blame parents for some of these things because you never know, you know, how difficult it is to deal with a very depressed child and someone who's troubled.

Speaker 12 You know, there's, there's a troubled kid in every class, you know, and everybody knows that,

Speaker 12 at least one, by the way. And I try not to blame the parents, but in this case, it sounds very much like the parents, father particularly dropped the ball in a way that is significant.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 they did not,

Speaker 12 it was very, they should not have given this kid a gun or let him get a gun. I would, there's no way.

Speaker 12 Now, kids are going to get guns if they really want to get them, but they'll have to try harder than parents sign off on it. I just, I never blame parents.
Boy, is this one moment when you should.

Speaker 12 Anyway, we'll see. I don't think it'll go anywhere, unfortunately, but it was terrifying.
And especially break, what you talk about, they're very, everyone's gathered online.

Speaker 12 And a lot of it's conspiracy theory and other stuff. The offline gatherings, like the parade we went to in Vermont, was so beautiful.

Speaker 12 There's so few chances for community that this is another destruction of community-based joining together of people in a happy place.

Speaker 12 Churches are weaker, workplaces, nobody's going back. We got a lot of reaction to our last episode about with Jeremy.

Speaker 12 There are so fewer and fewer places to gather. This just, it goes to the heart of the problems we have as a country, which is we can't gather anymore, even.

Speaker 12 We're terrified of going to the supermarket,

Speaker 12 doing things in a community-based thing. And a parade, a Fourth of July parade, really is the top level of that in so many ways for a lot of people.

Speaker 2 You mentioned a couple of things. One, you can harden these places and we don't want them hardened.

Speaker 2 I think it was when Newtown happened, I was on the board of my kids' school, and there was understandable concern/slash hysteria that we immediately needed to have

Speaker 2 constant armed guards, a gate, a fence around the school. And I'm like,

Speaker 2 what's the point? I mean,

Speaker 2 the whole point, I mean, at Columbine, there were armed guards. All you do when you arm a guard is ensure that they get shot first because it's usually the kid usually went to the school.
There's

Speaker 2 so few instances, and this goes for owning a gun for quote-unquote self-protection. The moment you decide to own a gun for self-protection, you increase the likelihood you will be shot by that gun.

Speaker 2 It just doesn't, there is no hardening. And not only that, even if we could figure out the level of hardening we want, we don't want that.

Speaker 2 That's the point of having a joyous, open society where you can walk your kids to school. You can pick up your kid from school in front of the school.
But this is...

Speaker 2 All roads lead to the same place here, and they're just going to try and divert our attention into different off-ramps. We need serious, serious gun reform.

Speaker 2 And the other thing we need, and this will be more controversial, or I would advocate, in Israel, when a terrorist would blow up a nightclub, the Israeli army would show up to the house of the family and they would blow the house up.

Speaker 2 It was unfair. And I'm not advocating for that, but what I'm saying is there needs to be more liability for the people in the house.

Speaker 2 who know there are weapons of war in the house if something terrible happens. Because no matter what kind of gun regulations we put in place, you cannot supervise millions of people.

Speaker 2 And parents have to take parents and family members when they see

Speaker 2 a young man, especially with a weapon of war or they have access to a weapon of war. They looked at his videos.
I think there are, I think, quite frankly, there's criminal liability here.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I would have looked at my kids' videos like that and been like, no guns. We're going to therapy.

Speaker 12 Who knows? I just, it's such a breakdown of family structure. Anyway, let's go on a quick break.
We come back. We'll talk about Twitter suing the government of India.

Speaker 12 And we'll take a listener mail question about super apps, which is Scott's favorite subject.

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Speaker 12 Scott, we're back on our second big story. Twitter is suing the government in India and alleging that Indian officials abused their power.
Very important case.

Speaker 12 In the last year, Indian authorities have requested that Twitter remove hundreds of posts and accounts.

Speaker 12 Some of those posts challenge the government position on issues ranging from Sikh independence to COVID measures.

Speaker 12 Twitter reportedly complied with the requests last week and says the government threatened to open criminal proceedings against one of its Indian executives.

Speaker 12 I think this is a really interesting fight.

Speaker 12 The country isn't afraid of banning apps. In 2020, it banned banned TikTok, WeChat, and dozens of Chinese apps.
India already has a homegrown Twitter replacement called Koo, Waiting in the Wings.

Speaker 12 Government ministers are using KU in favor of Twitter, but it's kind of ridiculous.

Speaker 12 It's a real, it's manipulating media, really, in a lot of ways. I think this is very important.

Speaker 12 Twitter's got to push back in all these countries where this is happening, and so do the other ones.

Speaker 12 You know, they spent a lot of time in this country where they have pretty much free reign in many ways. Very little is in their way in this country to have this happen in other countries.

Speaker 12 I don't know. I think they must or they become organs of the government, whatever government's in power.
It doesn't even mean this particular party.

Speaker 12 And

Speaker 12 Modi using, trying to, you know, they do it do Terte in the Philippines. It's all over the world.
This happens. And so Turkey,

Speaker 12 you can't allow the internet to be balkanized in this fashion, I think. And, you know, the same thing is happening in these Texas decisions.
It's not going to pass.

Speaker 12 You know, these trying to force people to keep things up.

Speaker 12 These companies should run the companies the way they want to, and then they can get, you know, attacked for those decisions, as we've many times have done.

Speaker 12 But it seems like government getting involved

Speaker 12 in content moderation is literally the worst thing I could think of. More than I'd rather have Mark Zuckerberg at the wheel.
Sorry.

Speaker 12 I hate to say that, but I do not want to have any government official at the wheel of content moderation whatsoever.

Speaker 2 Look, you're right. This stuff can be weaponized.
It's frightening to think that the government is going to start deciding what content can go out on Twitter and what can't.

Speaker 2 At the same time, companies have to operate within the confines of the law of the domains they want to operate in.

Speaker 2 So I think it comes down to the decision Google faced and ultimately decided to leave that they face in China was, do you want to play along with a government, you know, whether it's an authoritarian government or a government that's trying to weaponize Twitter into a propaganda tool?

Speaker 2 Or do you want to pull up stakes and leave?

Speaker 2 I don't know the semantics of the case, whether they have a legal argument here, but this is a problem doing business in nations that aren't, you know, I mean, India, a lot of people describe India as the world's largest democracy and that we have no moral footing to stand on.

Speaker 2 But when the platform is kind of being moderated by government, you kind of have to decide, look, do we want to do business here or not?

Speaker 12 Yeah, but it has 48 million active, monthly active users across its smartphone apps in India, according to Censor Tower.

Speaker 2 I bet they make no money there. Probably.

Speaker 12 It's a headache and they have to fight it. I think this.

Speaker 12 Now, interestingly, the European Parliament formally approved the Digital Markets Act and the Digital Services Act on Tuesday, among other things, legislation to force Apple to allow apps from outside its app store.

Speaker 12 I think this is precisely the way you legislate these companies. You create competition and the European Commission is making it easier to quit Amazon Prime.

Speaker 12 Amazon, for example, agreed to shorten the cancellation process just two clicks, following pressure from several European consumer groups who said the process was intentionally confusing.

Speaker 12 What a shock. We'll see how this, I think this is the way to do it.
Aim at privacy, aim at at business. Aim at competition.

Speaker 12 You do not aim at regulating speech. I think that's where they get into trouble.

Speaker 12 Sticking to regulating business practices and stay out of regulating speech seems to be the smartest way any democratic government should deal with it. And I agree, they should pull up stakes

Speaker 12 if they're not allowed to be who they are and make decisions as businesses.

Speaker 2 All it says to me, and I apologize for being so cynical, is they make absolutely no money out of India.

Speaker 2 Otherwise, they wouldn't be taking this moral stand because they failed to take it anywhere else. Well, we'll see.

Speaker 12 I do think

Speaker 12 what Europe is doing is much smarter and some other democratic governments in terms of dealing with the business part of it. And that's what our country should do.

Speaker 12 We're still waiting for the Globetar bills, the various Globetr bills, and the other bills in Congress to deal with this stuff. But it should all focus on privacy, business practices, and competition.

Speaker 12 And that's it it does take care of itself if you do that. The minute you start wading into these idiotic Texas law, keep them up, put them down.

Speaker 12 Like none of their fucking business are government officials about what should be kept up and put down unless it's actually dangerous and that's another thing altogether um anyway we'll see where it goes uh it's a very important move anyway even if it's virtue signaling but you're right they probably should leave okay scott let's pivot to a listener question you've got you've got i can't believe i'm gonna be a mailman you've got mail

Speaker 12 The question comes from Andy in Oahu via email. I'll read it.
I love Oahu. I miss Hawaii.
Hi, Kara and Scott.

Speaker 12 You often mentioned the lack of US-based super app to rival that WeChat has in China with Amazon Prime now offering free Grubhub delivery.

Speaker 12 Prime now has its hands in shopping, grocery delivery, streaming entertainment, streaming music, e-books, gaming, unlimited photo storage, and food delivery.

Speaker 12 If they bought Twitter and or Lyft, who else could even attempt that type of horizontal scale? Thanks, Andy, and Oahu. Kara, we've got a remote desk waiting for you.
Oh, Andy, I wish it was so.

Speaker 12 I have too many children like Elon Musk.

Speaker 12 And no, and no private plane. plane.
And now here I am without private plane. Talk about this.
Super app. Get into super app.

Speaker 2 Well, look, a super app

Speaker 2 essentially, first off, let's talk about India and China both have super apps.

Speaker 2 And whoever establishes super app status, and it's usually three legs of the stool, our transportation, social media, and then some sort of payments platform.

Speaker 2 And then it becomes the operating system for that nation. And that company becomes one of the five most valuable companies in that nation.
And so what you have in the U.S.

Speaker 2 is you have iOS and Android have a vested interest in ensuring no super app emerges because essentially the App Store and Android or iOS, if you will, are already super apps.

Speaker 2 Because what happens with super apps is if you have the best payment platform, if you're PayPal and you say, okay, we have a great payment platform, and then you buy Lyft,

Speaker 2 if you already have gone through the brain damage of putting your credit card information onto PayPal and they'll say, we'll give you $50 in free credits if you use Lyft after they acquire acquire Lyft.

Speaker 2 All of a sudden, Lyft gains a lot of share. And just as I don't love Apple Music, but I'm already in at the Apple ecosystem, so it gets a little bit easier.

Speaker 2 So even though it's an inferior product to Spotify, I might use Apple or Amazon Music because they have this kind of super app status.

Speaker 2 So whoever is able to establish kind of super app status in the US is going to rival Google and Apple in terms of market cap. And what's interesting is the door through which it could enter.

Speaker 2 So if Uber were to purchase a social media company or a payments company, it could have super app status. I think the most likely one is a payments platform because of their market capitalization.

Speaker 12 Amazon has a payments. I'm trying to think of the apps I use the most.
Amazon, hands down.

Speaker 12 I use Uber, certainly.

Speaker 2 If they owned Uber, that would be great.

Speaker 12 You know what I mean? That wouldn't be great because I don't like consolidation. But,

Speaker 12 you know, Amazon is the one I interact with absolutely the most of all of them in terms of many significant things. And not everyone, but certainly a lot.
And he's right.

Speaker 12 I think Andy is right that this is the closest thing.

Speaker 12 Probably

Speaker 12 the constellation of Apple apps, I guess, together. But you use them separately.
They're not a super app. You use them separately.
The constellation is.

Speaker 12 And if you were an Android, they're a constellation of things. But then again, I use Google Docs.

Speaker 12 There is no super app here.

Speaker 2 You're right. It's very hard for that to happen.
Well, Apple and Android put their elbows out. They want to make sure nobody gets there.

Speaker 2 And what I thought would have been interesting, actually, I mean, way back when, pre-Elon, when I was trying to soft circle capital to take a position in Twitter, I thought, okay, if

Speaker 2 a PayPal or someone were to acquire Twitter overnight, you have a competitor to WeChat.

Speaker 2 And I always thought the smartest thing that Elon was talking about was trying to incorporate, and he has obviously a background, yeah, payments into Twitter.

Speaker 12 You had discussed that before he did. Let me just point out.

Speaker 12 Where's that going? He's been unusually silent. I guess it's moving forward.

Speaker 2 Oh my God. Hey, who's that guy that shows up for every ninth soccer practice?

Speaker 2 Anyways,

Speaker 12 a lot of soccer practices.

Speaker 2 Oh, I hate soccer. He could spend his life on a soccer sideline.
I mean, we have two kids that play soccer, unfortunately, and I am just so sick of it.

Speaker 2 I hate soccer. Turned me off to use soccer.
Anyways,

Speaker 2 he's being quiet.

Speaker 12 He's like, 40 children. I like basketball.
I'm glad Alex is on the varsity team. That's very funny.

Speaker 2 Yeah, basketball's fun. Basketball's okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 I don't like.

Speaker 12 Don't tell them, but I don't like lacrosse.

Speaker 2 Oh, really? I think about lacrosse. I played in the father-son basketball tournament just a few weeks ago.
And, of course, torn my meniscus. Someone tell that guy he's 57.
Anyway. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Elon Musk has been quiet about the deal, Kara, because

Speaker 2 he's trying to, you know,

Speaker 2 he's doing everything he can.

Speaker 2 It's already a figment of, it's already in this rearview mirror. He wants nothing to do with it.
He has tasked his lawyers with getting him out of the deal for the least amount of damage possible.

Speaker 2 I saw the most ridiculous statement.

Speaker 2 Someone was, I forget who it was, was saying that, oh, that Twitter doesn't want to go through this case because it will reveal in Discovery their behavior during the process.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, well, you're right. Someone's going to look really bad in Discovery here, but it's not going to be Twitter.

Speaker 12 Well, could be. Who knows? Who knows? Jack Dorsey was in there and they're pals.
Who knows? In any way, we'll see where it goes. We'll see.
But we do think Amazon is the closest.

Speaker 12 And by the way, Amazon Prime members can now get a free year of Grubhub Plus, offers users-free delivery and other perks. Usually costs $9.99 per month.

Speaker 12 In response to the news, DoorDash dropped 11% and Uber dropped 4%. I have not used, I use Uber Eats.

Speaker 2 I do.

Speaker 12 That's what I use.

Speaker 2 More food. More food in the back than Uber now than that's right.

Speaker 12 I use it quite a bit.

Speaker 2 So I guess I do interact a lot with Uber.

Speaker 12 Anyway, if you've got a question of your own or one that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT.

Speaker 12 and we'd love to hear your voice so please do that all right scott one more quick break we'll be back for wins and fails

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Speaker 12 Okay, Scott, let's hear some wins and fails. Why don't you start?

Speaker 2 My win is I was forwarded this, I don't know if it's a letter to the editor, but a letter by a guy named Tom.

Speaker 2 He's a retired computer programmer from Baton Rouge named Tom Barton. And I don't know the owl that he wrote in on, but I think it was a local paper.
But he basically says, and I'll read...

Speaker 2 some excerpts from it in this letter, outlying abortion is just a bad idea. I'm an old man who's probably already had his last sex, but that doesn't mean I've turned against it.

Speaker 2 In my mind, sex is the best it gets. It's fun, good exercise, and free.
Most importantly,

Speaker 2 it's life's most spectacular form of intimacy. Think of music, think of poetry.
And then he goes on to say, all my life, I've known known the difference between a fetus and a baby.

Speaker 2 Now I'm being told there is no difference. That's a distortion of words and an error.
The foundation of a house is not a beloved home. A three-month-old fetus is not a baby.

Speaker 2 Having a kid shouldn't be a surprise assignment from God. Raising a kid is a 21-year project that's going to take up all of the parents' resources.
Even then, it might never be finished.

Speaker 2 Pushing people into parenthood is a bad idea. Sex is beautiful.
God did give it to us.

Speaker 2 We should not be be asking every man and woman every time they enjoy this gift to be wagering on a lifelong obligation to raise a child. The abortion alternative comes from our friend science.

Speaker 2 It is not the enemy. Good for you, Tom.
He just, I thought he just kind of perfectly encapsulated

Speaker 2 a side of this issue we don't talk about. And that is sex is a means of saying, I choose you.

Speaker 2 It's a means of saying our relationship is singular. It's one of the the few places I think in the world where you can really be who you are.

Speaker 2 And to start saddling it with all this bullshit obligation from people who are kind of

Speaker 2 probably beyond the ability to have sex and aren't going to be obligated. And usually overseas states where one in four kids are so concerned about are living in poverty.

Speaker 2 But I thought he did a good idea of articulating the upside of sex beyond just procreation. Anyways, that's my win, Tom Barton from Baton Rouge Music.

Speaker 12 I like it. I'm going to do a win and then we can both do fails.
I have several wins, actually.

Speaker 12 Larry the cat, the chief mouser at the cabinet office, I just literally love every, it was so such a pleasure

Speaker 12 for this cat to be commenting on what was happening. I know it was silly and stupid, but just now wanted new housemate for Westminster-based feline.

Speaker 12 Recently decorated house includes excellent security, lightly used office space, and garden suitable for hosting parties. Deep clean required.

Speaker 2 Oh, I just made it.

Speaker 12 The cat makes me laugh. And the other person who makes me laugh, Linda Carter,

Speaker 12 I think she's become a really fantastic tweeter and a very smart. She's a former Wonder Woman.
And I got to tell her, she's just fantastic. She's so funny.

Speaker 12 There's several celebrity tweeters, like Henry Winkler's funny and several others.

Speaker 12 I'm just really blown away by

Speaker 12 her. And I think she's really interesting in terms of how she's doing it.
And she wrote one that I think, you know, there's a lot of stuff going on around trans people now.

Speaker 12 And there was a very controversial piece in the New York Times, et cetera. And I think she wrote a response that was the smartest response I heard.
And I agree with it completely.

Speaker 12 I cannot think of anything that helps women's rights less than pinning the blame on trans women. They face so much violence and scrutiny as is.
Leave them alone and focus on the real war on women.

Speaker 12 It's happening in the courts and legislatures around the country.

Speaker 2 I just was like, that is correct, Linda Carter.

Speaker 12 Why shouldn't, you know, very, she does it all the time. And I really, she did one around lesbians and Wonder Woman.
And I, she doesn't, she's not always liberal, but boy is she smart.

Speaker 12 I got to say and then

Speaker 12 the cat and Linda Carter. That's my

Speaker 2 you brought you brought Linda Carter to my book party.

Speaker 12 Did I? Yes. Yeah, I didn't.
Sammy Haddett did. Yes.
And my fail is Brittany Griner in

Speaker 12 Russia

Speaker 12 was on trial there. They needed to get her out of there for just having some vape things.
And I understand countries have laws, but this is obviously a show.

Speaker 2 When you say they, who do you mean?

Speaker 12 The Biden administration should be more aggressive.

Speaker 2 I don't know, Carol.

Speaker 12 Yeah, I know it's hard.

Speaker 2 I get it.

Speaker 2 I get it.

Speaker 2 I've been thinking a lot about propaganda, and I'm writing about it. And I actually think that TikTok is the next essential threat and should be banned

Speaker 2 unless they can spin it into a U.S. operation.

Speaker 2 And the master, the seventh-level, you know, grand chess master, Jeddah Yoda, you know, of propaganda and geopolitical play is Putin. And notice who he has incarcerated.
A woman who would immediately,

Speaker 2 immediately absorb or invite all kinds of

Speaker 2 support from the gay community, from the athletic community, and immediately put pressure on Biden to get her out. And what are they asking for?

Speaker 2 They're asking that in exchange that we give up and release. a global arms dealer who has been trafficking in weapons in and out of Russia.
I just hear that. This is nothing.

Speaker 2 This is nothing but superior calculation on the part. It was no accident who they took when they took her and incarcerated her.

Speaker 2 And I'm not saying I think it's, I think it's abhorrent she's been incarcerated. I think we should do everything we can except

Speaker 2 except create more incentive for them to continue to take people of color

Speaker 2 from the LGBTQ community here.

Speaker 2 So I think the Biden administration is in a tough spot, but we should absolutely, I think they're doing the right thing.

Speaker 2 They should not give into pressure that he is clearly predetermined would come to bear on him and give up an asset. All right.

Speaker 2 You've shown me.

Speaker 12 I just feel terrible. She just admitted she brought it in and it's 10 years.
I just feel like this is like, I feel like I'm back at Midnight Express or something like that. Anyhow,

Speaker 2 God, that movie freaked me out.

Speaker 12 Do you remember that movie? Freaked me out. Freaked me out.
Freaked me out. Freaked me out.
Yeah. All right.
Your fail?

Speaker 2 My fail, and you're going to hate this one. My fail to date is Vice President Kamala Harris.

Speaker 2 I think unless in short order, if she doesn't find an issue or develop a more optimized VP office or get more support from the West Wing, whatever she needs,

Speaker 2 I think she's going to go down as nearly insignificant because I don't think Biden is going to be the president in 2024.

Speaker 2 My sense is so far

Speaker 2 her vice presidency has been, in a word, underwhelming. Yeah.

Speaker 12 I think most vice presidencies are underwhelming. Let's be clear.
Let me, there's very little. If you want to get on with, you have to go against the West Wing, and that's an issue, right?

Speaker 2 I don't even think she comes. Yeah, but they're at least likable.

Speaker 12 I don't even think i don't think her likability i think her likability and approval ratings have even gone down i think she's seen it's totally ineffective and there's rumors that her staff doesn't like her that her part yeah they've had a turnover so anyways but that's always with women give me a break give me a that one i'm not gonna go with uh you know tough ladies the same thing with amy klobuchar she's so mean i'm like oh my god really i agree i agree i don't know i think it's uh i think i think she's in a she's in a jam and she has to pull her she's got to like if she she has to decide if she wants to be vice president or president someday.

Speaker 2 So well, she's, she made that decision a while ago. Remember, she ran for president.
So, yeah, she did. She look, she, she needs to find an issue and own it.

Speaker 2 And the what, and the West Wing needs to support her. Supposedly, the West Wing just does not like her at all.
And

Speaker 2 they, they need to support her and they need to say, all right, this is an important issue. We're going to give this to you.
We're going to support you.

Speaker 2 And she needs to get all over it and start actually making some progress because she's going to go down is just a trivial question.

Speaker 12 Meanwhile, Gavin Newsom, also in her state. You said he wouldn't do it because it's in her state.
I don't agree with you. I think Gavin will.
Gavin's an ambitious man. So I think he's running.

Speaker 2 I didn't say he wouldn't run against her.

Speaker 12 I thought it was you who said he wouldn't go against her.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, I don't think.

Speaker 2 They all wake up and say hello, Mr. and Mrs.
President in the morning, and then they look in the mirror.

Speaker 12 Meanwhile, your best friend, Pete Buttigieg, is quietly being competent somewhere right now.

Speaker 2 Yeah, no, they're all running.

Speaker 2 I think

Speaker 2 it's going to be super interesting. Anyways, but again, my other one, Mitch Landrew, is another name.
That's right. Thank you.
I had lunch with the most interesting woman.

Speaker 2 Do you know Jessica Yellen from News Not Noise?

Speaker 2 She's another Twitter friend of mine.

Speaker 2 News Not Noise is this fantastic news service that mostly distributes through Instagram, and it just breaks down the news in a quick bite, kind of distilled fashion. And she does her best to call.

Speaker 2 balls and strikes and just gets you to the news without the noise. And

Speaker 2 it's kind of become my go-to's. She is interesting.

Speaker 2 She ran, she covered the White House, I believe, for CNN. Very interesting woman.
You like her a lot. I'm shocked you don't know her.
I don't know her. All right,

Speaker 2 a lot of people. All right.

Speaker 2 Well, my lunch with Jessica Yellen. And guess what? It's all coming full circle.
You know who I saw at that lunch that I was having with her, but I was too intimidated to go up and say hi. Who?

Speaker 2 Linda Carter.

Speaker 12 Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 She's at the same restaurant as us.

Speaker 12 She is hopefully going to be a guest host when you're away. Scott Free August.
Anyway, maybe I'll have her on my ears.

Speaker 2 Scott Free August.

Speaker 12 That's what we're calling it. We're calling it Scott Free August.

Speaker 12 Please please send in host suggestions we want very different and interesting we've had some great hosts in the past but who would you like to be uh take scott's place during scott free august who would you like

Speaker 12 to let me know and we will have them on and we'll try to get them on anyway okay scotts that's the show in fact i've got to get on a commercial flight for california i'm taking my boys and we're going to the wedding of their longtime babysitter when they were kids her daughter is getting married and we're very excited uh leah Rivera, congratulations.

Speaker 12 She is wonderful, and we are excited to be there for that event.

Speaker 12 We'll be back on Tuesday with more Pivot. Scott, read us out.

Speaker 2 Today's show is produced by Lara Naaman, Evan Angle, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Intertot engineered this episode.
Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Meal Silverio.

Speaker 2 Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Box Media.

Speaker 2 We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Sex is a gift.
Right on, my my brother. Right on.

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Speaker 17 This month on Explain It to Me, we're talking about all things wellness. We spend nearly $2 trillion on things that are supposed to make us well.

Speaker 17 Collagen smoothies and cold plunges, Pilates classes and fitness trackers. But what does it actually mean to be well? Why do we want that so badly?

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