Twitter, Layoffs, and Streaming: Pivot's Q2 Quarterly Review

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Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.
I'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway.

Today, we're doing our quarterly review where we keep ourselves to account.

We'll look back at old predictions, see what came true, and hear from some friends at Pivot about what they think is coming next in 2022. It's been a high news environment.

Okay, Scott, let's begin our quarterly review. I'm going to hold you to it.

First up, here's a two-part prediction from Scott. Let's set the stage here.
This was in early April. Elon Musk had just announced that he owned more than 9% of Twitter.

The company said he would join the board, and then he did not. Here's what Scott said at the time.

I think, one, at a minimum, there are shareholder lawsuits being drawn up here like there's no tomorrow. And also,

I think Gensler is sick of being called flaccid and a wimp and neutered. And at some point, he has to actually go.
I actually think Musk has crossed a red line here. Right.
On both counts, Scott.

Twitter shareholders sued Musk less than a week after Scott's prediction. There's probably more to come.
Another lawsuit came in May.

The suits claimed that Musk manipulated the market by not disclosing his purchases earlier and got a better price, essentially.

That timing is also subject to an SEC investigation, which was confirmed in May. They kind of have to do it.

So which is more likely to succeed, the investor lawsuit or the SEC investigation? And most people think it's just going to be a slap on the wrist.

And if the sale goes through, what happens to the legal problems? Will shareholders sue the new owner, Scott?

I think the answer is yes. But what you have here is

what people forget is,

you know, these regulators are people. Senators are people.
And Elon Musk has gone out of his way to be profane and really disrespectful and insulting to a lot of these people.

And so I think the SEC might even decide not to get in the way of this transaction just to let him sweat it out. I mean, just to say, all right, boss, you broke it, you bought it.

And they'll just let it play out and let him show up in a Delaware court and have a Delaware judge potentially say, you have to show up with $45 billion. You signed a hermetically sealed agreement.

I mean, this was,

you know, this whole thing is so fascinating. And it'll definitely, I'm just,

the question is whether it will be a docudrama. It's like what network it'll play on.
You know, one of the things about innovators is they have a lack of impulse control and they have few guardrails.

And they think, oh, I can put a man on Mars or I can put a woman on Mars. And that is, that is part of being a visionary.

The problem is when you don't have any guardrails around you and you have a board that is basically just a group of stenographers and sycophants and you come up with a ridiculous idea to leverage a lot of your personal net worth to go after a company and then the market goes down and then you just all of a sudden you realize that you've made a tremendous mistake.

I mean, it just seems to me so obvious what's going on here. And now we've entered the part of the program where everyone's just posing for a Delaware judge.
Do you have any thoughts on this?

I'm surprised he's been so silent lately. I think he's going to get a slap on the wrist here.
He knows how far to push it. I think these lawsuits are difficult.

I think the Delaware Court is where he's going to

come to Jesus moment. I agree with you.

One interesting thing is, where is Jack Dorsey in all this? He's now starting Web 5, in case you're interested, which is a mix of Web 2 and Web 3. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

He's supportive of Elon's takeover bid. You know, if he knew about it earlier, he could be, several people could be in trouble here.

The question is, how much trouble and whether there's real teeth to the SEC. So I think they think there isn't.
I think most people think there isn't. And they're willing to forego.

They're not worried about being sued by anybody. So we'll see where these shareholder lawsuits.
I think he'll, you know, he doesn't mind. It's his price of doing business for him in many ways.

I think he's more in trouble with this deal, whether he has to take it or not. But who knows?

I spoke to someone who's very senior at a firm that may play a large role in financing the debt part of his financing when he was actually, you know, seemed like legitimately interested in closing.

Yeah, does it rhyme with the Apollo? But But go ahead, sorry.

Not Apollo.

Anyways, but what you have is if you look at the agreement, what happened is in 2008, a lot of property equity firms walked from their deals because in between the time they signed the agreement and when they were supposed to show up, the market went south and they got slaps on the wrist.

So since then, the agreements have actually been tightened. So this is going to be a very interesting legal precedent to see if you sign an agreement.

I mean, do agreements matter anymore? And

I have some bias here. I think it's going to be more than a slap on the wrist here.
I think a Delaware. I'm talking about the SEC thing.
I'm talking about the deal is a different story.

Oh, understood. I got to say, everyone thinks they can get away with everything because of Trump.
And guess what? They can't. No way.
It's got to pay up.

Anyway, next, there's a prediction Scott made in late April. The streaming market.
The content market is about to get taken to the woodshed. It's just going to be so fucking ugly.

There's going to be so many layoffs. You're about to see enormous consolidation and and radical cost cutting at the biggest and strongest.

I mean, it'll be everyone, maybe with the exception of Apple TV Plus and Amazon Prime Video, because they have just literally infinitely deep pockets. Well, this one was right.

Scott, once again, right. Netflix has laid off over 400 people since Scott's prediction, including a large round of layoffs at the end of June.

The company canceled shows, including an animated series from Megan Markle. And Netflix isn't alone in streaming.

Pornhub was hit by layoffs in June, although it may have related to a damning article in The New Yorker. But nonetheless, definitely pulling back.

Everyone's indicating that the spending is, they're getting much more specific about their spending.

So I interviewed, Ted Sarandos told me at Con that Netflix isn't trying to buy Roku, by the way, discussing the possibility of Roku selling ads for Netflix, maybe, but they also are probably going to do that via Google, most likely.

So what do you think of this? It's not just Netflix, it's all of them. So what do you think?

There's so much great content out there, a lot of spending of money, a lot of famous people. Tell all.
What do you think now after that prediction was correct?

There's never been an art form that's had a greater level of investment. If you aren't watching a lot of scripted television right now, you're ignoring a great age of art.

We've just never seen this amount of creativity and capital go into one art form.

And just look at the numbers. There are 120 million U.S.
households. 80, 90 million are streamable.
So 80 million, call it 80 million streamable homes. $140 billion in the the U.S.

by most estimates being spent on streaming content. What is that? $1,600, $1,700 per household.
So just imagine the economics here.

We're not talking about your phone bill. We're not talking about your data.
These streamers are spending $1,500, $1,700 per household to send you Bridgerton and Euphoria.

I mean, it's just the economics just don't work. And as long as they kept increasing their subscriber base, their stock kept going up until it didn't.

Because what happened was there's, this isn't a company of of scale. These companies are linear.
And that is the only way you get more subscribers is to spend more on content.

There was never a network effect similar to what you got at Google or what you got even at Amazon or a Facebook. Yeah, you got to keep up the promise and then you run out of people anyway who can pay.

When all of a sudden someone said, okay, at what point does this thing turn massively profitable? And all they needed was the excuse of a flat quarter.

And the tail wagging the entire media dog right now is Netflix being off 72, 74%, whether it's CNN. Too much.

Whether it's CNN Plus shutting down, whether it's the Obamas not getting their contract renewed, the entire media landscape has shifted.

And the cloud of the atmospherics that people aren't talking about enough, what is being done, what Netflix did to Hollywood is being done to Netflix by TikTok. But I think this was an easy one.

This was a simple case study in economics when you have massive overinvestment. So what happens? I think it's been over with Netflix.
I mean, a lot of Bill Cohen. You think it's been oversold?

A little bit, like a little bit too far. Because I think there's a lot of Schadenfreude from Hollywood with Netflix.
I think they're setting the tone for what's coming next.

I don't, I think they're, apparently it's like four or five times their enterprise value. Anyway, they're in the right place.
And

they have to really be very tight around advertising. I think it's very promising for them.
And

their content and being much more choicey. around things.

Because I have to say,

I pay for it and I would not pay for it. It's worth it.
It's worthwhile to me.

Like you were talking about subscriptions in a previous episode. It's worth the money.

But for those who don't have the money, incredible deal for control. Incredible deal.
And so I wouldn't even think about it. It would have to get really bad.
But if they clean themselves up,

they'll be a good stock at some point again. They'll be flying high again, I suspect.
Anyway, here is Scott's prediction from mid-May now.

You're about to see the gray layoff, and it's going to be amongst the unicorn folks that we have been just hiring everyone for so long.

And it didn't matter. Just grow, just grow, just grow.
Pay them what they want. These companies now are going to go into a room and go, we need to reduce SGNA by 20 or 30%.

And they're going to, I mean, it's just happening. It's happening everywhere.
And they're in the planning stages right now. People are being thoughtful.

You're going to see every 24 hours, one to three stories.

This is mostly tech. You're talking about mostly tech.
It's going to be the slaughter of the unicorns

or the jockeys. I don't know what the right metaphor is, but you're about to see the great information age layoff over the next six to 12 months.

Yes, Sari, this one is right. Scott, since Saskatch me made that prediction on May 16th, there have been layoffs at PayPal, Klarna, Gemini, Stitch Fix, Crypto.com, BlockFi, Compass, Coinbase.

We're going to leave the... Bitcoins out of this, but Masterclass and others.
And just today, Unity is laying off a big chunk of people, even though they said they wouldn't several weeks ago.

So, is the layoff wave over? Are there more to come? And this is a fleece layoff, as you said.

They're dying to get people at all the restaurants and everything else. I can tell you that.

Are these layoffs just post-pandemic adjustment? Is there more at play? This is industries that have benefited from the pandemic at the same time.

Overhired. What do you think? Can I just say I'm really enjoying this session so far? I'm really enjoying this episode.

And I think our producer deserves a raise. Unless we lay them off.
We're not. We're not going to do.
We have such a I got so much of this shit wrong. This, this again was an easy one.

This recession, or what they think is a recession, or might be a recession. Is it a recession? Is it inflation? Is it stackflation?

Recessions or slowdowns in the economy, and you can be comfortable assuming we're going to have a slowdown in the economy. impact certain cohorts more than others.

There's blue-collar and white-collar recessions. And we've said this is going to be the Patagonia Vest recession.

And it's just simply a level of overinvestment since 2008 in information economy growthy companies.

And you see some of these companies, they've increased their SGNA, which is Latin for employee costs, by 200%.

And the revenues are up 30%.

So, and with most of these companies, there's some RD, there's some IP, but the real big expenses here, they're not manufacturing. They're not spending money on raw materials.

The real costs are people.

And we're in an environment where, you know, if you've, if you dropped out of college, college, but you got some experience programming, you can make $120,000, $150,000 a year for a tech company.

And it just got so out of control.

There's always a tension between capital and labor. And labor has, at least in this part of the economy, just had so much leverage.
But I think we're just getting started. I think the layoffs here

are across the economy. I mean, you talked about Amazon overhiring, too.
No, no, no. So let me be clear.

frontline workers finally have some overdue leverage, and you can see it everywhere. Everyone talks about supply chain.

The level of customer service at the frontline has just the way I describe every hotel now is six-star prices with four-star service. Like, take a star off of all service everywhere.
Airlines.

Oh, my gosh. Lots of my flights were delayed because they didn't have enough staff.
Those jobs are safe for a while. They'll have different impacts around inflation.

The part of the economy here that's going to see the most dramatic number of people laid off, I believe, is going to be in these growthy companies that basically were just hiring everyone and everything.

And I have some personal experience with this. I started an ed tech company that's had layoffs.
I'm on a few boards of companies. Yep.
Over hiring.

You're not only seeing your first wave of layoffs, you're going to start seeing second and third waves. Wow.
So this is just getting started. All right.

Well, let me just say it's also an opportunity for innovation. A lot of people get laid off and ended up starting great companies.
So not necessarily a bad thing. All right.

Just so everyone knows, we didn't highlight the predictions you just got right. You actually had a really good quarter for predictions.
Keep it up or else I may let you off.

Anyway, all right, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll hear from some friends at Pivot about what they think we'll see in the next quarter.

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Scott, we're back. Now that we've looked back at our own predictions, let's hear from some friends of Pivot about what they expect in the coming months.

Here's a prediction from your favorite, Preet Barara. Preet.
Freet's host of Stay Tuned with Preet.

By the way, if he runs for governor and then Mark Cuban goes to the White House, we are so in with the power people. We are sick.

Anyway, let's go. Hey, Kara and Scott.
It's Preet Barara.

With respect to the January 6th committee, Few minds will be changed, but a foundational predicate for criminal liability will have been laid laid out.

I don't know if the committee will make a formal referral to DOJ, but I don't really care because that doesn't matter. DOJ has the ability and the authority to act regardless.
Will it?

The execution of a search warrant at the home of former DOJ official Jeffrey Clark and also the seizure of the phones of John Eastman do suggest serious and real action is in the offing.

As a great legal scholar myself, I hope he's right. How many times can we say this is the one that gets him? I think they're definitely going for those two.

Yeah, I think it doesn't really matter. Congressional hearings have shown light on some crazy shit.
And I think Just Martin has to act. I don't see that.
I think Preet's right. What do you think?

Quickly. Well, I saw him on CNN, and I think the most important takeaway was, you know, he has beautiful eyes.
Have you seen Preet's eyes? He's dreamy. Oh, my God.

And that voice, and he's so thoughtful, and he's so engaged. Oh, right.
Come on. Stop sexually harassing your.
No, he's literally, he's the old blue eyes of Wilmer Hale Hale now.

Did you say he took a big job? Yes, he did. He's making serious freaking bank.
Can you imagine how much they had to pay that guy? I spoke to him about it. He called me about to talk about it.

Oh, really? I'm jealous he didn't call me. Because you talk about his dreamy eyes, and I help him with his career choices.
Anyway, go ahead.

Yeah, this is, I think, a fairly safe, considered prediction, as you would expect from Preet, but I'm not even sure what he said. Is he saying that the president's going to be indicted?

What's he saying here? He's saying he thinks there's going to be some movement, and they've got a lot of proof now. The predicate, you see, he said that? The predicate to a

foundational predicate for criminal liability has been laid out okay i wouldn't i wouldn't call this one of the bolder predictions okay all right

you're just mad he didn't call you next up we have a prediction from yelp ceo jeremy stoppelman one of my favorites it's about remote work hi karen scott it's jeremy stoppelman here ceo and co-founder yelp i predict that over the next quarter more companies are going to realize hybrid work is a hell of half measures and go full remote why do i believe this well hybrid companies are not getting any of the wonderful benefits of going full remote.

Employees are still commuting some of the time, burning lots of hours, completely unpaid. Employees are still required to live in high-cost areas.

And you create a culture where FaceTime potentially matters more than the work. Scott, you've talked about having to come in in a hybrid environment to impress the bosses.

Well, that's not really an issue in a remote environment where it's more of a level playing field. Everyone's a tile.
So you don't get the benefits of remote.

And with hybrid, you don't even get the claim benefits of in-person either. People typically come in at different days and times.
In-person collaboration still stinks. Bosses can try coercion.

Hey, Elon, but you'll lose some of your best who have come to expect the greater flexibility and autonomy that remote provides.

And why go into the office for Zoom calls when you can do them just as well at home? Yeah, Jeremy staked out a big position here. Hell of half measures.
You know, interesting.

That's what you call a prediction. Yeah.
And I don't know if Jeremy has dreamy blue eyes, but he makes a prediction, Preet. That's That's right.
So I think it's interesting.

I was at the box offices the other day with Jim Bankoff, and he said he has a hard time getting people to come in. They were trying to do three day a week.

He has to coerce people. He doesn't really want to.
They just say no, you know, uh-uh, kind of thing. And so what do you think? Because you're a proponent of in-person.
I am too, a bit.

I think intentional in-person is critically important, but many do not. We saw headlines last week about Tesla tracking office attendants and emailing workers.
They haven't badged in enough.

That's a Bloomberg thing to badge in, by the way. They watch you everywhere you move and it's creepy.
You have to really put the screws to your employees to get them to do this, I suspect. So

I try to never say no to any academic who calls me for and asks to speak to me.

And I'd say 50% of the calls can be summarized as: I'm much more talented than you, but you're much more successful than me. How do I close that gap? Yeah.

And what I've said, I had this conversation yesterday with an academic from

an Ivy League school, a super impressive young tenure track woman in the business school. And I said, if I were going to,

you got to go, it's better to be good when, you know, in when the waves are great than to be a great surfer when the waves suck.

In other words, the content area you decide to be, she was basically saying, How can I become a thought leader, you know, like yourself, quote unquote? Meet Kara Swisher. But go ahead.
Sorry.

There you go. Yeah.
Go on a podcast with Kara Swisher.

Or Preet.

But

a pivotal moment for me, in addition to coming on your podcast, was in about 2000. I said, my whole brand strategy rap that I've been preaching for the last 10 years is getting tired.

And I pivoted to how technology is disrupting traditional industry. And I thought, I'm just going to focus on that.

And that was the right move because everyone preaching brand is just like, okay, maybe they get invited to camp, but no one really gives a shit what they think.

And the next, a really interesting place around thought leadership because it's raising just a host of huge issues that are unanswered and is labor, or specifically our relationship with work in terms of how we communicate, the physical place around it.

The questions are so big. And right now, they're so, I don't want to say unanswerable, but I listen to Jeremy.
I think Jeremy's a very impressive person. And

I hear him say this and I think, well, that makes sense. But at the same time, at the same time, I just don't think.

How do you onboard people remotely? How do you create a sense of connection? How do you develop mentors? How do you develop?

And not only that, a lot of the most talented young people don't want to be in their 400 square foot apartments and go on us five days a week. So I've seen this at Prof G Media.

It's the most ambitious young people who actually want to be in an office.

So I do hold to the notion that I don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but I think it's going to be somewhere in between. I don't know if the fully remote thing works.

I got to tell you, the young people don't want to come in the office. We had lots of stories of people like they don't, they like, I had one young person, I want to stay at home.

I'm like, you're an idiot. Like that's kind of, but it's interesting.
I don't know what I would do if you want to create these workplaces. I have always had people come in at will.

We and we had an intentional lunch every week. This was 10, 15 years ago when I started All Things D.
And I liked that and they liked that.

But it was, it took a lot of work to get to do that, to create that. We did a lot of online stuff.
We did, we didn't, this was pre-Slack and pre-everything.

And then I had an office people could come into and a lot more people did come in when I didn't make them.

I just, I was there. That was the thing.
And if they wanted to interface with me, when I was there, they were often there. So I don't know.
I don't know, Jeremy.

I think you're probably right, but that's the way it's going. But it makes me sad to think about all these people stuck in their little offices looking at Zoom.

It's kind of a sad and lonely existence. If you don't, workplace is a great place.
I'm in Century City right now. And you go, I went over to the Twin Towers.

I've been there in a while, and I was, you know, just sort of sentimental to go see it. Middle of a workday on a Monday,

these are enormous office complexes.

And no one's there. They're

literally deserted. But I just want to make sure, I do want to have one comment here, and that is advice to young people.
If you're really ambitious, and maybe

you don't live to work, you work to live, and you want to have the trade-off of quality of life and take advantage of remote work, or you are a caregiver and need to take care of people, which is, I think that's one of the really wonderful unlocks around remote work, is saving people time in terms of commuting or putting on a pantsuit or whatever it is.

But I think for that, that what I'll call very ambitious people, my advice, full stop, is to get into the office. Yeah.
That promotions are a function usually of relationships.

And people push back on me and say, no, there's new metrics. I don't buy it.
It's there are three people qualified for every promotion.

And the person that gets the promotion is the person who has the best relationship with the decider. And relationships are a function of of proximity.

If you're really ambitious, figure out a way to get into the office. We will see where it goes.
I have noticed very busy streets in D.C.

in the office area because, you know, or Congress, they're all in person. Scott, we'll see what happens.
We don't know. This is a really interesting topic.
And you're right.

This could figuring this out is going to be very difficult. And there's no good answer, actually.
All right, Scott, one more quick break.

We'll be back for a couple more predictions from Friends of Pivot.

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Okay, Scott, we're back. Let's get to more predictions from some friends of Pivot.
Here's one about cryptocurrencies. Hey, Karen Scott, this is Edward Anguaso Jr., Advice's Motherboard.

For my prediction, I think that in the coming quarter, we're going to continue to see crypto have a high correlation with other risky equities driven by the liquidity crunch as consumers and investors predict a recession.

And this means that multiple funds, tokens, lending platforms, they're all at risk as the effects of the liquidity crunch, rising interest rates, and venture capitalists tightening their belts.

all threaten the unsustainable business models with no clear utility that populate a lot of the decentralized finance space.

I think continuing that trend, there's going to be less of an appetite for risk and speculation that drove a lot of the adoption in the stable coin and the decentralized finance space.

I think that's a pretty safe thing to say, Edward. You know, interestingly,

Sam Bagman-Fried, who's one of the more stable people in this at FDX, was interested in making a deal to buy Celsius, but walked away, apparently, this story,

after finding a $2 billion hole in the balance sheet. That's what the story was.
I think he's correct. I think it's going to really tighten up.
I don't think that's a bad thing. It has to.

And everybody's going to have to show their underwear, essentially, about what they have and all their assets and things like that, and sort of act like real live kid like real live boys and mostly boys it was less of a prediction more of a summary of what's happened the last three months i mean there's definitely been a risk off trade and this is the tail of the whip of risk kind of these shit coins and the speculation and many of these platforms that were really levered and we're seeing a massive delevering across the entire ecosystem and this is one of the most levered.

I do think though that it's important to separate not all tokens are the same. And I do think Bitcoin is than the rest.
And that is, Bitcoin has established this scarcity credibility

along the lines of a fiat currency. And, you know, everyone talks about the collapse in Bitcoin.
I'm when on the Prop GPod, I interviewed Michael Saylor, I think, less than two years ago.

Bitcoin was at $18,000. So, how many securities are up from where they were two years ago? And the other gangster move here that really shocked me was

SEC Chairman Gensler said that other than Bitcoin, he purposely called out and exempted Bitcoin. He thinks that these other coins need to be regulated as securities.

So when you have this delevering and Gensler saying you're a security and you're going to be subject to reporting requirements and regulation, but he exempts Bitcoin from that, I think he basically just said to said Bitcoin is a legitimate asset.

So

I think he said it's a commodity. I was with some people at the commodities regulators and they were like, it's a commodity.
It's going to be a commodity.

Bitcoin I'm not saying it's not justified, but the reality is what he's saying is

there's a bunch of coins that are about to be basically every coin is about to be regulated as a secure, as a security, except for one token coin slash commodity slash payment slash store value, whatever you want to call it, called Bitcoin.

So I think Bitcoin, just as in 99, everybody says he's this, you know, talks about, okay, in 99, they cleared out all the shit and then there were some enduring companies.

It looks as if Bitcoin is going to be enduring. And I think it's dangerous to lump them all together because

you know, but it is, I can't imagine the meetings that are going on

at crypto companies right now around the kind of the delevering. And do you want to talk about layoffs? And I do think these government agencies are cooperating a lot more than you think.

Everyone's like, oh, they've been fighting with each other over who gets to run it. I think they're cooperating quite a bit.
I think they talk all the time.

And I do think they're going it's going to be a commodity. I think it will be.

Lastly, here's a prediction about Cheryl Sandberg's future.

Hi, Kara and Scott. It's Cecilia Kung of the New York Times and co-author with Shira Frankel of An Ugly Truth Inside Facebook's battle for nomination.

I've been asked what the next quarter has in store for Cheryl Sandberg. And a lot of sort of the top line for Cheryl Sandberg is a period of transition.
She is leaving the company by this fall.

And so she will be officially handing over a lot of her responsibilities to other very senior lieutenants at Facebook at a period of great transition at the company as well.

This is a really interesting time too because Cheryl Samberg as perhaps the business world's most prominent and recognizable feminist has already weighed in on abortion rights and the decision by the Supreme Court.

We may see her and her organization potentially weigh in more. She She has talked about how she wants to focus more on her nonprofit work.

But the big thing I would note is a period of transition for Cheryl Sandberg. And as one person recently said to me about her, she's got a fire in her belly, so she's not done yet.
Oh, interesting.

Well, she should take mail ox if that's the case. You know what? She's got to step up.
Like we said, I mean, Cecilia, this is an interesting thing to say, but she can't transition.

She needs to move right fast to something significant. I mean, Mackenzie Bezos has already given over $250 million, I think, to Planned Pair and just dropped it, boom.

Like step the fuck up here in this time. I think that's really important for her to make a big, significant difference and not a lot of playing around.

I don't know. What do you think, Scott? I mean, just the contrast and what you brought up.
I'm involved in the JED Foundation, which focuses on teen prevention of teen suicide and teen mental health.

And we did a fundraiser in New York and Mackenzie Bezos,

basically the head of the foundation, John McFee got an email saying, hi, we're from the Mackenzie Bezos Foundation, I don't know what you're going to call it. We need your wiring information.

We're sending you $15 million.

Boom. And they said, we have done the diligence.
We don't need anything. We don't want anything.
We think you're doing great work. Godspeed.
Where do we send the money?

And then you have Cheryl Sandberg, who basically will give a million dollars and want a big check and have... a bunch of people take photos of her.

And I want to say that Sheryl Sandberg is more like most men. And that is the notion of giving is like, I need something in return.
It's not really giving.

I don't buy into the premise. And I'm not a huge fan of Sheryl Sandberg.

I think to call somebody who has delayed and obfuscated data and used the majority of her skills to obfuscate and misdirect our attention from what has been probably the greatest level or crisis of teen depression, especially among young girls.

To call that person a feminist, I just don't buy into the, I just don't, I don't think they've earned that title. Or de-earned earned it.
Dearned it in a lot of ways. Here's the thing.

She's got to roll up her sleeves. You said skills.
She has the skills. You know what I mean? She has the ability to do something significant.
Great executive. Talented woman.

So she needs to like use her force

for good. And she needs to really, speaking of lean in, lean the fuck in, Cheryl.
That's what I would say to her. And she's probably listening to this.
Lean in in a real significant way.

You've got the money. You've got the means.
Ignore, you know, like you're going to get a lot of shit. Take it.
Take it. You deserve it.
Like, you know what I mean? About Facebook and everything else.

And stop focused on yourself and focus on the problem, which is in your case, you have, you know, abortion rights is a big issue for you.

And I think especially focus on the people really hurt, hurting, which as Scott pointed out in a previous show, was women of poor, women of color or the poor, just in general.

You need to really get shit done that actual is not a photo opportunity, that is not, that you don't talk about that you just do like just do essentially i think she's got fire in her belly then use it for that um anything else a lot of studies a lot of uh you know considering talking just move just move you you can do it like this is an opportunity to redeem yourself in some fashion and you should it's a golden opportunity you should take it you're assuming this is an individual that's redeemable i do okay i do as you know i you know what she's got the means and the money money and the talent.

She can do it. You know, not everybody's redeemable.
I agree with you. Like, I want her to use her money for this.
And I want her to use her intelligence and her drive and her ambition and

focus it on something that matters, that will change people's lives for the better. The rest of your life should be about that.
That's my feeling.

I think there's a lot of parents of teenage girls that will not accept her apology. Agreed.
Agreed. But, you know, look at all these cigarette people that have given all this money for anti-looking.

It could happen. Look,

just make it so. Make it so.
And

you may not even, by the way, you may not get a thank you. You may not get, get, I forgive you, but do it the fuck anyway.
That's my feeling. You know, I think you can do it.

And so we'll see where that goes. No more transitions.
Let's go. You know how I am with that? Like,

speaking of layoffs, I self-fire myself all the time. Anyway, Scott, I'm very excited.
This is, you did very well this quarter. You may retain your job.
A broken clock, broken clock, Kiara.

No, you're a very thoughtful man, and and you deserve credit. This was, you did a lot of really good ones.
Yeah, um, and uh, and very, I don't think there were any bad ones.

You know, I think you've been pretty much on point. Um, and one of the things is you do listen to a lot more people.
I think you've been availing yourself to a lot more interesting

points of view, uh, which is great.

Does that hate crime? Does that have a hate crime?

Anyway, that's the show. We'll be back on Friday for more, but I'm glad we're able to assess ourselves and see how we do.
We'll try our best to do our best going forward.

Scott, read us out. Today's show was produced by Larry Naiman, Evan Angle, and Taylor Griffin.
Ernie Intertot engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burroughs and Miel Silverio.

Make sure you're subscribed to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media.

We'll be back next week and next quarter for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, thanks for a great quarter.
Best of you and yours. You too.
Here's to the next one.

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