Colleges Push Back, Ozempic Price Promise, and White House vs. Anthropic

Support for the show comes from user testing.

You can stop with the guessing because, with user testing, you can test anything and learn everything from the people who matter most: your audience.

Whether it's an ad campaign, a website prototype, or a brand new product feature, user testing helps you see and hear real reactions in just hours, not weeks.

That means no guesswork and no wasted effort, just insights you can act on right away.

Teams use user testing to move faster, make smarter decisions, and craft experiences people truly love.

Real people, real reactions, real fast.

Learn more at usertesting.com/slash pivot.

Support for this show comes from Apple.

Before it was Pivot, it was just an idea, and the place where my ideas could take flight was always on my Mac.

I've been using a Mac for everything since I started using computers.

And of course, an iPhone, I got one of the first ones.

You know, I use my Mac all the time when I'm doing podcasts, especially when I was traveling, but I used it in the very beginning of doing podcasts when I did remote stuff.

And no matter what you have an idea for, whether it's an innovative piece of tech, a groundbreaking policy, or a short story concept you can't get out of your head, go for it.

You just need to get started.

Great ideas?

Start on Mac.

Find yours at apple.com slash Mac.

Support for the show comes from Charles Schwab.

At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs.

That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices.

You can invest and trade on your own.

Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs.

With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab.

Visit schwab.com to learn more.

Okay, you said short story.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Oh my God, you're so okay.

Oh, my God.

Where is this going?

Hi, everyone.

This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network.

I'm Kara Swisher.

And I'm Scott Galloway.

Guess where I am?

I like this game.

Where are you?

Las Vegas, your favorite place.

Vegas.

What are you doing in Vegas?

Oh, I'm giving a speech at a place you gave a speech at.

I can't remember this, Stansbury.

Anyway, I'm here to talk about AI, of course, because that's the topic du jour of many.

of these events.

Nice.

I didn't do anything in Vegas last night.

I went to sleep and I watched The Diplomat before that.

That's what I did.

Oh, really?

Entire evening.

Yes.

I love that.

Yes.

How does it feel?

To what?

Well, I mean, how does the mood people say Vegas is dying because people now have Vegas in their pocket with their phones and people have less money?

You know, it was full.

You know, I was, I met eight at the, I guess it's the wind, the one with all the trees that hang down.

You know,

Vegas better than I do.

But I'm staying

at the Encore, that whole facility.

And it's, it's, was packed.

I was surprised.

It was very jolly.

Although it wasn't, I wouldn't say the casino was packed, that's for sure.

But it was, it wasn't like unfull, I guess.

I don't know.

Is this the time of year for it to be full?

I think Vegas is pretty much a year-round place around conventions and everything.

Right.

I've only been here at like CES, so it's always full.

It's not like that, like by any means like that whatsoever.

I used to go there.

My friend Lee Lotus and I would get ridiculously fucking high and decide at 2 a.m.

that it was a good idea to go to Vegas.

And we'd jump in his Volkswagen Jeddah

and head for five hours to

across the desert.

To Vegas or across the desert.

And we'd stay at the Golden Nugget where they, because they had this buffet for $9.99, you could basically eat for a good, you know, enough for a day or two.

Yeah.

And we would always put $5 in the glove box so we had enough gas to get home because we knew we'd lose all our money.

And did you?

Oh, yeah, that's part of the fun.

Yeah, I was going to go out and bet last night, and then I got tired, and I bought Carrie Russell.

So, so I always used to, with Vegas, I would take my mother's boyfriend's cardigan because it was really, really plush and nice, and I thought it made me look older.

They let you in here, they'd let like a 10-year-old in here, wouldn't they?

I mean, they're kind of like they're much more strict now.

I think back then they would.

Now, they're very, they're very strict.

My favorite was there was a casino called Circus Circus to be family-friendly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right.

Actually, I was, oddly enough, I texted Amanda and I said, we're going to California for the, for Christmas, and we have like a couple of days.

And it's either go to like LA and go to like a theme park.

Or I was like, why don't we come to Vegas and watch The Wizard of Oz and the Sphere with the kids or something like that.

I literally, and she didn't reject the idea because I thought she'd never been to Vegas.

She didn't totally reject the idea.

It's the best place in the world for 36 hours.

And then on hour 37, it turns into the worst place in the world.

Yeah, I thought we'd be kind of fun, go to the buffet, and the kids would, like, it's so weird and strange.

I thought they would enjoy it for like a short time.

And it's so, you know, it sounds dumb, but it's kid-oriented because there's all the noises and things.

And, you know, like it's an, it's, it's sort of a nursery school for adults, I guess.

I don't know.

It's, it's also Vegas is, and I know this firsthand, it's actually a wonderful place to retire because my mom, as you know, retired there on during the middle of the week, say on a Tuesday or Wednesday, you can go see, you know, the ABBA show or Cirque du Soleil and a dinner for like like 14 bucks.

They have all these local resident discounts on their off nights.

And, you know, you basically can see world-class theater concerts and they have very high-end food for a pretty low cost of living.

It's actually, and it's the desert, which old people like, it's actually a really nice place to retire.

Yeah, and plus strippers, right?

I mean, you know.

Yeah, well, no, I wouldn't know about that.

I used to go to that.

Yeah, I lost contact with her after 20 years about a year ago.

What's the club, the strippers were?

Pyramid Rhino?

Yeah, that's where all the CES guys guys went.

And I went to and I ran into them and they'd lose their minds when they'd see me in the strip club.

It was very funny.

I haven't been to a strip club in 20 or 30 years.

I have a general rule.

I don't eat fast food or go to strip clubs in the city I live in.

Okay.

All right.

Well, we can do it on every night in the tour and stuff.

Yeah, that's not going to happen.

It's not going to happen.

Anyway, I'm in Vegas.

I'm leaving.

I'm going to Korea this week.

Korea?

I'm going to Korea.

She had to stop us.

Why do you go to Korea?

It's for The Secret Show.

For The Secret Show.

Oh, God.

It's the last episode.

They want to go.

Oh, that's Korea's where

I know, I know a bunch of women who take trips to Korea to look, not look Korean, but to look younger.

I guess Korea, they're obsessed with beauty and they're very good at it.

Yeah, yeah, they are.

So we're going to do a little bit.

They're also have one of the most aging populations in the country that's doing the most about it.

Like, I'm going to be in an ectoskeleton or whatever.

But they're planning a lot for their aging population in a really interesting way.

So they're bringing you over to inspire young people to start having sex.

I miss the gap there.

I miss the connection.

Anyway, I'm going to put some shrimp semen lotion on my face.

That's what I'm doing.

And I'm going to bring some back for you.

You know, there's a component of that that is appealing,

but it's not.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm not even going to go there.

I feel like you're giving me so many softballs.

I'm giving them to you.

I'm throwing them up and you're not taking shrimp semen.

You could do nothing with

shallp semen?

That is not the facial I imagine nor want to see.

All right.

Okay, scallop semen.

I don't know.

They're going to have like all kinds of, there's always the word semen

in their facials.

I'm excited.

Supposedly only one in 20, is it one in 20 or one in 200, some scary low number of Koreans is going to have a grandkid because of basically as women

as women get more economically viable and quite frankly get smarter and more educated, they decide this whole kid thing kind of sucks for me and they stop having children.

And essentially that book in the 70s 70s that said that the world was going to

collapse on itself and that there was going to be a population bomb.

Well, the bomb exploded, except it didn't explode.

It imploded.

And we're having trouble figuring out how Western nations and democracies

maintain population growth.

And the percentage of young people to old people is just shrinking every year.

Which is why, hence, Kara's going to Korea to talk about that.

Yeah, and old people have this habit of voting themselves more money.

And before you know it, young people are 24% less wealthy than they were 40 years ago, as they are in the U.S.

And old people are 72 percent wealthier and our society is is kind of turning upside down and young people have no hope okay elon got it no i'm kidding i'm kidding no i'm going to talk about this topic and this is the topic this is the topic anyway i last time i was there i was with walt when we were deciding where to have our asia conference um and uh korea we considered seoul for a minute i really do like seoult though i don't know if you have how many times you've been there but i really like it a lot yeah i've i haven't been there and i haven't been there since business school i'm kind of curious to go back and check it out.

I'm going to get on a bullet train.

You know, things like that.

It should be.

Before or after you got a facial.

All of it.

Oh, God.

It's kind of been like.

This is literally like...

Korea.

This is like

a 12-step method to get me to stop watching you porn.

As I type in facial and I see you in Korea.

It's literally, okay, that's it.

No more porn.

I'm done.

I'm cured.

Anyway, I'm cured.

I'm one of those people that doesn't drink and doesn't watch porn.

Endless taping of TV.

I see see.

Speaking of people who abstain,

I met literally the woman of my dreams right after I moved to New York.

I'm going to say her name because she's really a cool woman.

Her name was Olivia Shantikai.

This will get to her and she will absolutely freak out.

And she had a cosmetics line.

She was smart.

She was funny.

She was spectacular.

And I was in full-blown douchebag mode.

That's because you had hair.

I had bought a house in the Hamptons with a sand beach volleyball court, which gives you a sense of the mode I was in.

You're like a sex in the city character.

I buy the house in the Hamptons.

I am just optimized.

I have a place in Miami.

I'm just optimized for the random sexual encounters that did not materialize for me.

Anyways, and I met this woman, Olivia, at a party, and I worked it so hard.

I would find out.

I would try to accidentally be at the party she was at.

I'd lay on

a little of the dog charm, a little like

reticent humor.

And I had this whole rap about I was a professor and whatever.

I was trying so hard.

And finally, finally, I get her to go out on a date with me and we went to this place this is how clueless i was we went to this place called blue water grill which might as well be like a corporation exploding into a restaurant because i didn't know where to take her and we sat down and we we we started talking and the guy came over and he said can i give you guys something to drink and i said to her yeah i said i'll have a you know i said to her i said what would you like to drink and she said i don't drink and literally instinctively i go it's not going to work

It's not going to work.

Yeah, I can't out loud.

Oh, yeah.

I'm like, it's not going to work.

She's like, what?

And I'm like, it's not going to work.

We can be friends, but it's not going to work.

And she's like, what?

And I'm like, imagine this coming at you sober.

It's just not going to happen.

It's just not going to happen.

I've never dated a woman who doesn't drink.

Oh, wow.

Well, we never will date.

So who knows?

If I had me and Olivia, it could have been a great romance.

Where is this going?

So no drink.

No, I just can't.

I can't date anyone that doesn't drink.

I just like, I have no interest.

Well, your wife likes to

enjoy herself.

She has a good time with her team of ladies.

She's funny.

Who's this?

Your wife is fun.

Your wife is a lot of fun.

Oh, yeah.

She's in the midst of a midlife crisis that puts everything.

Oh, my God.

Her and her friends.

Let me just dial you into what happens when women hit a certain age.

They had their hot 20s, and they gave up their hot 20s because they got basically, guys found them and started procreating with them.

And then they had the mess of kids.

And then all of a sudden they wake up and they're in the late 30s, early 40s, and they're like, oh my God, I'm losing my hotness and my eggs are dying.

I got to go fucking crazy.

They go to music festivals.

It's called having a life.

They hang out with younger men.

They like go, they experiment with drugs.

The midlife crisis of a woman in her late 30s, early 40s is the most underreported explosion of hormonal loss, fear.

Oh my God, they go crazy.

The guys, like, I don't do this, but when their husbands get together, they go golf and are in bed by 7 p.m.

Yeah, that's true.

The ladies and then, you know, talk about their gout and how much it sucks to get older and tax avoidance.

That's our big talk topics.

And the women are out till I'm not exaggerating, they're out till six in the morning.

Yeah, I know.

Your wife's a lot of fun.

I went to sleep when we were all together, and they were all out running around.

Anyway, anyway, all right, we've discussed partying because I'm in Vegas when I did none of it in any case.

But we've got a lot to get to today, including Anthropic and David Sachs fighting over AI regulation and colleges pushing back against Trump, which is really interesting.

I can't wait to hear your take.

But first, almost 7 million people gathered to take part in a No Kings protests this weekend around the country.

Over 2,700 events took place in 50 states.

The protests were peaceful with no arrests, no arrests being made in cities like D.C.

and New York, which drew obviously the biggest crowds.

Some sign highlights, real clowns would run things better.

I like taters, not dictators.

Tylenol is safe from the tyranny.

You sucked in Home Alone 2.

Mike Johnson blocked me on Grindr.

And of course, Groper Cleveland.

GOP lawmakers are calling the movement a hate America America rally.

Still, I think they won't stop and claiming it's a political cover for a shutdown.

It looked pretty jolly to me.

Of course, as usual, President Trump tried to suck up the oxygen in the room by posting an AI-generated video depicting him dropping feces.

Well, it was just a poop, a big giant diarrhea from a fighter jet onto protesters.

A lot of the mainstream

wouldn't say that that's what it was.

I mean, I think it was just a distraction because he didn't get any attention.

Turnout was impressive.

I don't know if it does much, but it was really quite amazing.

It was like, that's a lot of people.

And again, it was peaceful and seemed lovely and

a good organizing thing, I suspect.

Any thoughts?

I think it's really important.

I think that,

you know, I always go back to World War II, and that is

what was so disappointing about World War II initially was that so many people seemed to enable it or look the other way.

And then the pushback by Americans,

obviously Europe had an existential threat that this guy was invading them.

But America did have real controversy over whether to re-enter Europe for the second time after they'd paid such a terrible cost in the First World War.

And a lot of people didn't really understand why that was our war and we're about to do it again.

And ultimately, their decision to move into the war was

kind of a vision of FDR that like this will hit our shores eventually.

And they weren't as much pushing back on anti-Semitism.

Really, they weren't pushing back on anti-Semitism.

They were pushing back on fascism.

And

this is, in my view, America has become very fat and happy and lazy and has taken its prosperity, its alliances, and its freedoms for granted because the majority of us have been raised in an era where those things continue to get better.

And so the natural assumption is it couldn't happen here and it'll keep getting better.

And I think for the first time, Americans are thinking, or first time in a while, are thinking, okay, maybe that isn't a guaranteed right.

And

the best summary of it to encapsulate, I think, well, at least how I feel about it, is

the following.

The No Kings protest isn't about hating America, but about loving it enough to defend it.

For generations, Americans have stood up when power grew too big, when truth got twisted, or when leaders forgot they served the people.

This is one of those moments that defines who we are as Americans.

We will stand together peacefully, not to divide the country, but to remind it who we are.

And that's from this great philosopher, Eric Theodore Cartman from South Park.

Yeah.

So, but he said, I thought it just kind of perfectly encapsulated the moment.

So to be clear, I'm not sure if that was AI.

I did some research, and some people have attributed that quote to Heather Shreve Bueller.

But regardless, it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful quote.

And this stuff is important.

And people say, well,

I agree that

these protests are better when there's a specific action required.

But I think that when you saw those videos yesterday in your feed on social, you realize Americans are upset.

Americans are prone to action.

Americans will take the time to give up their Saturday and put together a sign.

The Americans on this side, it always comes across as a little hippy-dippy and a little bit like Mother Jones and Cynthia Nixon and with kombucha, you know, which I don't, you know, they come across.

But I don't think this one did, but go ahead.

No, this one was less of that.

It felt just very positive, very solid.

There were some videos that that really bothered me.

The video flying around the internet that really upset me was of that idiot who gets tripped and hurts his face.

And a lot of progressives are celebrating it and calling it karma.

I don't think that's good for us or the nation.

I saw a lot of people in inflatable animal costumes, which I thought.

That's hilarious.

That's been going on all over the city.

I like those memes.

You know,

lots of my friends who went, they said it started.

I didn't, I had the kids yesterday or the day of March.

Several people said it started off kind of lefty, but then as the day grew, it was sort of all kinds of people and much more sort of people, like moms and daughters, and fathers and sons and stuff like that.

And they said it seemed, um, it was seemed like very, like lots of different people they were struck by.

They go to, you know, more than one or two protests every now and then or around marches.

And so I thought the photos were amazing.

And again, they did a lot of really good stuff on social around the contrast between Trump's military parade, if you recall that kind of loser of a parade, and that.

And it seemed not, it didn't seem festive is the wrong word.

It seemed, it didn't seem positive.

It seemed positive.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah.

And I thought it was like, it's great for, I bet they collect lots of names.

You know, it sort of gets people energized for the fight.

And then, of course, Trump had to do a stupid thing.

And I think,

honestly, it's just so weird.

It was so weird to do that.

And thinking it's funny when you're, you know, a 79-year-old man.

And I'm sure part of me feels like the fact that he did a pooping thing, right?

That an elderly man to do a poop thing, either it's sort of self-harming himself by posting it, or else whoever's working for him is doing some brutal trolling of him.

I just thought it was such a weird selection.

It's just more of the same.

It's just a total lack of respect for Americans if they don't agree with you.

And

I don't know, trying to, and again, it's effective because we're talking about it and it enters the news cycle.

Well, actually, it enters the news cycle, but like all his little minions did one too, of him not leaving office or him as a king.

And I keep thinking, these people are like, you know, 60, 52, 79.

Like, this is like, you act like a, like a badly behaved seventh grader who no one he likes.

I don't know if it works.

People like that.

I guess.

I don't know if people like the poop thing.

I don't think anybody likes.

I mean, maybe if you're 12, I guess.

But well, I doubt they did.

Anyway, it was very impressive.

And the media should have covered it more because I thought it was really lovely.

Now, as of this recording, six colleges have rebuffed the Trump administration's so-called Compact for Academic Excellence in Higher Education ahead of the White House deadline.

The agreement offers special access to federal funding in exchange for schools agreeing to a set of demands, including eliminating race and sexist factors and admissions and capping international enrollment.

MIT, Brown, Penn, USC, UVA, and Dartmouth have all said no, arguing the deal would undermine free speech and academic independence.

The White House initially approached nine universities and is now reaching out to more schools after a wave of rejections.

Really interesting.

I think

really interesting that they're doing this.

I don't know as much about it.

How did you feel about this?

As

someone who's you like some of it, but I think overall the government is getting its dirty myths and things that is none of their business.

Yeah, some of it, I mean, some of it's sort of common.

It's not even what's in there.

It's

that's not important.

What's important is whether or not the federal government should be threatening to withdraw funds unless they sign up to a series of standards, some of which include what sort of distills down to thought control or who you hire.

And I think the majority of it could be, or a lot of it could be perceived, freeze tuition, although that's basically a price control.

That's socialism.

But who you hire and who you let in, that's sort of, I don't know, I have some issues with that.

Reducing the number of international students.

I mean, just to riff on that for a moment.

We keep talking about bringing American jobs back, and

there is,

there are few.

For every 1% decrease in international enrollment, we lose a billion dollars.

And that is imagine, just to highlight how stupid, fucking stupid these tariffs are.

International trade wildly is asymmetrically beneficial towards us.

We sell an NVIDIA GPU hopper at $100,000.

It's $55,000 of operating profit times a PE of 40.

We get $2 trillion in market value.

Mercedes sells in $100,000.

Mercedes at 10% of operating margin trading in a multiple of eight, they get $80,000 in shareholder value.

And another great example of how asymmetric and beneficial to us our international trade is, there will be a small number of students, although it will triple or quintuple this year, of American kids who decide to go to Instituto Empresa in Madrid.

And they will spend money.

They will spend their American dollars and their parents' American dollars in Spain, which will grow the Spanish economy.

We get hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of kids and families who come here.

And at NYU, they're spending about $280,000 in tuition over four years.

They're renting $3,000, $5,000,000, $7,000 apartments.

They're buying Chipotle every goddamn day.

And then there's the soft power of they like Americans and they stay in contact with them when they go back to run the economic ministry of El Salvador or wherever.

It's just that

it is so much high margin revenue for us.

And to discourage foreign students by putting a cap on the number that can come here, they're looking at it the wrong way.

And that is the University of North Carolina says, okay, we're going to give you $650 million, but you have to let in 82%.

Now, what they should do is just expand the top-line number with their endowment and let in more kids.

But anyways, I don't mind that.

What they need to do is the following, in my view.

And I had dinner on Thursday night with the chancellor of UCLA, Julio Frank.

who's a really impressive guy.

And I won't speak to the specifics of the conversation, but my view is the first thing they need to do is coordinate.

And that is, they need to

hold their tongues and elect a couple presidents of these universities to represent them all and then

stand around the fire, hold hands, and say, whatever this group decides, we are going along with.

Because how they lose is to be divided.

They pulled off one by one, yeah.

That's exactly right.

UCLA says, we'll take the money.

And SC says, no, that's an authoritarian's playbook.

You go along with me, I'll make you super rich.

You don't go along with me, I'll illegally punish you.

The first thing is coordination.

The second thing is litigation, because a lot of this is just wrong.

A lot of this is

so

they're trying to interpret visa rules arbitrarily, and

there's a precedence against that, a legal decision, the 2022 DACA recision.

There's constitutional protections here.

The First Amendment against compelled speech or ideological litmus tests for faculty or curricula.

That's a violation of the First Amendment.

The 10th Amendment, spending clause, that federal funds are conditioned on political compliance.

They could file in sympathetic jurisdictions.

They also need to weaponize, and they haven't done this, their alumni to make financial commitments such that they have the financial wherewithal, at least in the short term.

Harvard is up, right?

Harvard is actually up in donations.

Well, also, the schools that have immediately pushed back here, it's no accident.

They're the ones with the largest per capita or per student endowments because they can afford to push back.

And then state-level counterweights, they could have legislative shields, attorney general lawsuits, parallel funding, and some.

They need need to use the courts, coordination, inspiration around fundraising, and litigation to delay this bullshit.

But they all need to speak with

one voice.

Otherwise, it seems like, I don't know who the others, the nine are, but that's one, two, three, four, five, five of them.

All of them should be part of this.

They should be speaking with one voice.

It's sort of like the Pentagon thing last week.

Just stop it.

And also.

Also, I think they should go gangster.

We have

universities are a corrupt cartel.

They have this enforcer of the corruption, which is the accreditation.

There's a board made up of the incumbents that accredits universities.

And you need accreditation, otherwise you don't qualify for federal student loans.

And

it's just insane.

They don't allow new universities.

They don't accredit new ones.

So what do you know?

Universities have not grown.

They are not adding additional universities.

Students are actually, there's a bit of a birth dearth.

There's a chill over international students.

They think international, applications from international students

are going to go down 20 to 40 percent.

And for every student that comes here to a private university, that's literally probably like

Let's think about it.

That's probably $400,000 or $500,000.

Say the average family spends $15,000 when they come to America.

It's like 20 or 30 families not coming here to go to Disneyland in Universal Studios and see the Grand Canyon.

It's just really fucking stupid.

It's a huge, and in addition, our PhD students, and I've gone on about this forever, we attract the best and brightest to make our weapons, our chemotherapy, our pharmaceuticals, our internet applications would spill over into huge job growth.

So, this is just, I mean, in addition to the economic end of it, this is the bottom line.

The accreditation institution should be in the forcer here and say,

We're speaking with one voice, bitch.

And if you decide to go make a side deal with your buddies in the administration, yeah, maybe you're even legally complied, but we're going to make it hard for you to get accredited next year.

Universities need to go a little bit gangster here and speak with one voice.

Otherwise, they will be picked off one at a bunch very briefly will they do that no because they're all they're all administrators and they lack the type of leadership

okay i don't want

a leader needs to emerge a leader needs to emerge like there's some very innovative people that i don't know who the new president of uva is i really think the president of harvard has done a decent job

there needs to be there needs to be a leader who steps up and says calls all of them and says, we either fall together or stand together.

And you may have your own views on which parts of this you like or don't like.

And there's a very solid argument for saying,

I represent USC, so I'm going to have a dialogue.

And this is what happens.

The first university that cracks and agrees will get more, won't have to give up that much, and then they're going to come back for even more to number two.

So they absolutely need to stand together.

Right, right, right.

I made it, I was thinking six schools out of nine, but I agree.

It is, it's kind of ridiculous.

And they keep winning legally.

So it seems like, you know, I think the proclivity of a lot of these places, and then we're going to move on, is let's just talk.

Let's not fight.

Let's talk.

Yeah, let's dialogue.

Let's dialogue.

That's what we do.

That's what we do.

And so that's where they're getting.

And I thought, again, with the reporters, the Pentagon did, I don't know what the result of that.

We're just not going to, we're not going to agree.

And then the people that agree are a motley crew of shitty, whatever, not even journalists at the Pentagon, and they look ridiculous.

And I think

in this case, if they stand together, as the Trump people typically fold, that's always seems to be their thing as they push and push.

And then, and then it's taco.

It's essentially Taco Tuesdays.

Okay, Scott, let's go on a quick break.

We come back.

This is an interesting story.

Anthropic becomes a White House target.

Support for this show comes from Delete Me.

Right now, the headlines are chock full of data breaches and regulatory rollbacks, making us all vulnerable.

But you can do something about it.

DeleteMe is here to make it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online.

DeleteMe does all the hard work of wiping you and your family's personal information from data brokers' websites.

You can sign up and provide DeleteMe with exactly what information you want deleted, and their experts take it from there.

And DeleteMe is always working for you, constantly monitoring and removing the personal information you don't want on the internet.

I've used DeleteMe many times, and I have to say, as always, I'm shocked by how much stuff I found out about myself on the internet.

A lot of it inaccurate, but a lot of it accurate and brought together in ways that seem really disturbing.

See why Wirecutter named Delete Me their top pick for data removal services.

Take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me.

Now at a special discount for our listeners, get 20% off your Delete Me plan when you go to joindeleteme.com/slash pivot and use the promo code pivot at checkout.

The only way to get 20% off is to go to joindeleteme.com/slash pivot and enter code pivot at checkout.

That's joindeleteme.com/slash pivot code pivot.

Support for the show comes from Saks Fifth Avenue.

Saks Fifth Avenue makes it easy to shop for your personal style.

Follow us here and you can invest in some new arrivals that you'll want to wear again and again, like a relaxed product blazer and Gucci loafers, which can take you from work to the weekend.

Shopping from Saks feels totally customized from the in-store stylist to a visit to Saks.com where they can show you things that fit your style and taste.

They'll even let you know when arrivals from your favorite designers are in or when that Brunella Caccinelli sweater you've been eyeing is back in stock.

So if you're like me and you need shopping to be personalized and easy, head to Sacks Fifth Avenue for the best fall arrivals and style inspiration.

Support for this podcast comes from Zeta.

Marketers have been juggling too many tools for way too long.

But imagine a world where all your marketing and advertising work together.

No silos, no wasted spend, just smarter growth.

That's what Zeta makes possible.

Zeta is a marketing platform that unifies both paid and owned channels in one system.

This helps eliminate duplication, wasted spend, and slow execution.

With Zeta, there are no more silos, just accelerated growth.

The Zeta marketing platform is an AI-powered solution that unites both owned and paid channels together in a single system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable, profitable customers.

So you can forget about the days of relying on third-party cookies as Zeta is built on first-party data so you can have reliable foundation for your marketing growth.

Zeta is the AI Marketing Cloud, the platform that unites paid and owned channels into one system, giving CMOs and CFOs a measurable path to predictable, profitable customers.

To learn more about Zeta's services, go to zeta global.com slash pivot.

That's zeta global.com/slash pivot.

One last time, that's z-et-t-aglobal.com/slash pivot.

Scott, we're back.

The latest feud over AI regulation is between Anthropic and the White House, specifically Trump's AI czar, David Sachs.

Sachs is accusing Anthropic co-founder Jack Clark of running a quote sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering.

Oh, did you look up all those words, David?

This was in response to an essay Clark wrote about balancing optimism and caution around AI.

Sachs is also claiming Anthropic has positioned itself as a foe of the Trump administration.

And while CEO Daro Amodi, who backed Kamala Harris, isn't bending the knee like other tech CEOs.

Anthropoc still has a number of government contracts and partnerships.

Really weird, a weird attack, I thought.

And specifically, Colleen One is someone who's supposed to be this AI czar and supposed to be pushing all the companies and everything.

And of course, those that have showed up for Trump and given him money and done all these things get all the juicy bids.

It's sort of an insider game here with Sachs at the center of it.

And I'm sure he's quite effective at getting what he wants around cyber and I mean, crypto and this, but to attack one company for just making normal,

they want to build the brand around safety to do that.

It seems bizarre to me.

I guess he just he wants everybody to go along with the with the casino that speak in Las Vegas and the house is always in charge.

But I don't know, any thoughts on this?

You said something that always struck me and that every accusation is an admission.

Is that what you said?

Yeah.

Is a confession?

He wrote, Anthropic is running a sophisticated regulatory capture strategy based on fear-mongering.

No,

we have never seen regulatory capture like big tech showing up to the White House.

And the tariffs are effectively a transfer from the 490 that have to figure out the sclerotic strategy to the 10, the magnificent 10, that really aren't affected by a tariff.

And for him to say that because Anthropic has said, I'm not going to bend a knee on everything here is sort sort of, and also, let's be clear, he didn't write this.

The White House wrote this.

The White House, he's not going to do anything without the White House's approval.

And so, for some reason, Anthropic has gotten cross-eyed with the Trump administration, and you sort of

threatening them.

In addition, this just at a very baseline level, we forget the administration is not supposed to speak to, punish, or reward individual companies.

Correct.

That was what was so strange about it.

They're They're supposed to pass laws that affect everybody or don't affect everybody.

Or they take all AI companies on a tour of Asia with the Secretary of Commerce to try and build business.

Or they say, here's an idea.

Every AI company cannot have any technology that lets people under the age of 18 engage in synthetic relationships.

You don't decide, okay, I don't have an investment, me and my venture firm and my buddies don't have an investment in Anthropic, so I'm going to go after after them individually.

This is, and if you look at

a more broader level, if you look at jobs, what's happening with jobs, job increases have gone to really big companies.

And actually, who's getting really hurt are small businesses.

And small and medium-sized businesses are responsible for two-thirds of job growth in America.

Why?

Because small and medium-sized businesses have no seat at the table.

They don't get to go to the White House and cut sweetheart deals and get big deals and big contracts.

Like, that's the whole thing.

Like, I was thinking about all these businesses that don't get to go to Mar-a-Lago patio, as I said.

And one of the things around this essay is read the essay that Jack wrote, Jack Clark wrote.

It is essentially like, I'm really excited about AI, but there are some things we should worry about.

Like, literally, he's not a foe.

of the Trump administration.

He's just making a normal thing that everyone, and by the way, there is a growing worry about all this, like among normal people, which Zach's never, never sets his foot near.

And I think if you're, if you're a parent, if you're, if you're a business, everybody is, and, and, and the stock market feels very frothy based on the spend.

Everyone understands what's happening here from a stock market point of view.

And all he was saying was we should be cautious, like, just because he wants to like have a little bit of regulation and put, put it in the hands of our elected officials, which would be Congress, to be passing some of this stuff.

I think it's just, I was sort of really struck by the how corrupt the situation has become.

Um, and of course, it puts Anthropic's going to have to do government contracts, it's going to have to do, you know, just like this is where all the big money is for these things to grow into actual businesses.

And so, it's really the picking and choosing again, socialism.

And then, the weirdest thing this week was this these stories of Peter Thiels has some thoughts on AA regulation.

He's warning it could summon the Antichrist if we stop it.

Like, he's giving these speeches that are seem like we must do this, or the ant.

I'm not clear who the Antichrist is.

I guess it's people who oppose the complete takeover of the government by tech billionaires.

Like, I,

it was so, I don't even understand.

He's gotten increasingly religious, and good for him if he finds comfort in religion.

Peter Thiel's gotten religious?

Oh, yeah, yeah, very much so.

There's a whole gang of them that are very, like,

it's a, I think it's a brand of Catholicism.

It's one of it's it's a branch of it.

And and and so

it's just the Antichrist.

Are you are you kidding me?

Like, it's just the strange.

So now it's becoming in terms of like a real existential fight for the future of humanity is how they're selling it.

And I think believing it, actually, I don't think this is a feint.

I don't.

I think it's an actual belief system.

It's all very strange.

It's it you do.

I use both.

I try to cross-reference and use them to check each other.

I use ChatGPT and I use Claude.

And I like Claude better.

I use Claude more because I find it's better with the written word, but ChatGPT I find has more comprehensive data.

What I have also noticed is that, and sometimes it bothers me, quite frankly, is Claude is more politically correct.

If I'm doing research on the shooters,

of

or the perpetrators of political violence, sometimes if you phrase the question wrong, it comes back and says, I can't provide information on attempted murders or whatever.

And then, you know, and then last night I got very upset.

It wouldn't give me any information on, I wanted to see images of lesbian tech journalists getting facials in Korea, and it just wouldn't go there.

Oh, you just got that.

You just got that.

That just registered.

Anyways, it is more politically correct.

And

so my sense is that at Anthropic, they're sort of trying to be the good guys.

And this guy just sort of steps out of line and doesn't line up for the, you know, doesn't line up to be part of the mafia.

That David Sachs is clearly a soldier of the dawn in Washington.

And the Gree is sign up and you're going to make a shit ton of money at the expense of the lower 490.

And it seems like the head of Anthropic, good for him, has not signed up and says, well, actually, I have some views and I have some concerns because

the,

you know, I think the collision personally between synthetic relationships and AI

is just so fucking frightening.

I just think it's, and they're not talking about it.

I think it's going to make it seem like phones and social media were just an Easter parade when all of a sudden we notice that everybody or a third of the people in our life have disappeared and are long

coming down for dinner, no longer talking to us because they have decided that their synthetic relationship knows everything and knows them and it can run their lives.

And

anyways.

This is with Thiel is much more profound.

Let me read a quote because one of the things is the hostility towards technology is his focus.

And he,

let me just read this quote because

according to some Christian traditions, the Antichrist is a figure that will unify humanity under one rule, but this is from Wired before delivering us to the apocalypse.

For Thiel, its evil is pretty much synonymous with any attempt to unite the world.

How might such an Antichrist rise to power, Teal asks, by playing on our fears of technology and seducing us into decadence with the Antichrist slogan, peace and safety.

In other words, it would yoke together a terrified species by promising to rescue it from the apocalypse.

And he's like blaming like Nick Bostrom, who's an AI doomer.

You know, who I'm not a fan of Nist Bostrom either, but like he's, this is like, um,

so strange.

And to fend it off,

we have to stop people like this, I guess, like, like anthropic, like any AI doomer.

And if there's any, it's just,

it's so strange that, and disturbing that this guy is at the center of power and is influencing all these people.

And of course, South Park made fun of him.

Peter Deal knows the anti, he's worried about the Antichrist, which was a very funny episode.

Well, I had some experience with this.

I'm not, no joke.

I had a dream

and the devil showed up in my dreams and whispered, I'm coming for you.

And so I whispered back.

I whispered back, that's gay.

Why should we be worried about the most powerful people in the world that have an unbelievable command of godlike technology, who basically own the vice president, who are becoming increasingly theocratic?

I mean,

no worries there.

No worries there.

Well, I recommend South Park's Peter Thiel and the Antichrist.

It's really funny.

It was really, really funny.

Anyway, it's worrisome.

And that's enough he's one odd duck odd duck odd i'd like to go to a strip club with him have you ever partied with him no i've been to a party at his house yes i had an argument with him at it anyway it was a long time ago over something i can't even remember it was many moons ago many iterations of peter till ago uh i'm exactly the same um uh this is an interesting story glp uh one drug stocks fell late lastly after donald trump said in an oval office presser that the price of ozember as he called the fat loss drug would soon drop to $150 a month.

Dr.

Mehmet Oz, who's now running Medicare and Medicaid, quickly jumped in to clarify that's not a done deal yet.

The clarification didn't do much to common investors.

Novo, Nordisk, and Eli Lilly both lost billions in market value.

The price of Ozempic is currently around $1,000 a month.

Talking about the implications, the price really goes down to $150.

I'm of two minds.

I think it should be $150, like, right?

Like, it should be really inexpensive for people who, especially people who are overweight, to figure out a way, because again, with the secret thing, actually, every doctor i talk to talks about the importance of these drugs on the general population probably it's the antichrist um because it will unify us in health um but uh but what do you think of this you were one of the first people to talk about the implications of glp one drugs but the prices remain stubbornly high for and out of reach of most americans on a monthly basis like i every year when i do my predictions deck which i'm about to do in a month for the follow for the next year i predict a technology of the year and in 22 and 23, I said it was AI.

First time I've done back-to-back on a technology.

And in 24, I said, the technology that's going to have more impact on a ground level than AI in 24 is GOP1 drugs.

I think these things are nothing short of revolutionary.

I mean, the fact that if you think about when we came off the savannah,

we didn't have access to trans fats.

We didn't have access to mating opportunities to replace.

So we've become addicted to food, to porn, to gambling, because our instincts have just not caught up to institutional production and these things are literally scaffolding on our instincts and when you go into the grocery store you not only buy less food you buy more lettuce and kale and yogurt and you buy less cookies and soda it's just how does it know how to turn off the parts of your brain that says i need to eat chocolate covered almonds late night after my five milligram edible which i did last night yeah i had milk duds but go ahead i love milk ooh those are really bad for you um anyways

the yeah, you're not going to find those in Korea when you're getting your face shirt.

I know that's why I had them here last I found them in the Vegas, but go ahead.

There you go.

So, oh, in the mini bar?

No.

Oh, God.

That's my favorite thing with my son is we bond.

We go back to the hotel and we raid the mini bar.

Anyways, what was disappointing about GLP-1, at least initially in the United States, was the region that had the greatest penetration of GLP-1 was also, ironically, the richest.

The thinnest.

Thinnest, yeah.

And thinnest and richest go one together.

It was, it was ladies of lunch on the Upper East Side trying to lose that last 10.

That is not who needs GLP-1.

I believe a decent government program would be for Medicare to repeal the legislation that says Medicare cannot negotiate on drugs.

We spend two to four times more on Ozempic than they do in other nations, despite the fact that Nova Nordo's produced,

which is a European company, we have American produced GLP-1 drugs.

I would love to see just

the federal government do what it's it's supposed to do, and that is help prevent a tragedy of the commons and use their purchasing power to take these drugs down to 50 bucks a month.

Because then it becomes accretive.

You will save more than that on food.

And the one thing Americans share is not military service.

It's not their ethnicity.

It's not their religion.

The one thing we share as Americans is that 70% of us are overweight or obese.

And if you wanted to figure out a way to save $100 billion, $200 billion, a half a trillion dollars a year, you would get America down to Japanese-like levels of obesity where only 4%

of the Japanese are obese.

I think it's- It's actually more than that, because I have to say, in doing all

this series I'm doing,

everyone's like, ultimately, it's food, exercise, being rich, and sleep and stuff like that, ultimately for longevity.

But every expert I talked to is like, these drugs are miraculous in terms of getting getting us to the place we need.

Besides the really cool stuff that's happening with cancer and AI and, you know, CRISPR.

It's here.

This is the thing that every single, and not just that, but around

issues around stroke, around,

and taking it in a small amount.

Like some of my doctors, like, you need to take a little bit in a small amount.

I know a ton of people that aren't that aren't fat, that microdose VLP.

But it's more addiction, right?

And drinking and

cognitive stuff, all this stuff that is like around it.

And of course, it does worry some people that it could like

make a left turn like Fen Fen or whatever.

But most every doctor I talk to is very much like not worried about this drug.

It's a really interesting, it's a really interesting development.

About two years ago, I got invited to a dinner to speak at a dinner, and it was neuroscientists.

And I thought, wow, I would like to be in there with a bunch of neuroscientists in case I ever get sick.

Or it's just not a bad idea to have relationships with really good doctors.

And so it was a dinner.

There's about 16 neuroscientists and me there.

And the head of this hospital,

and I think probably a couple of people who like funded the gold circle of,

you know, whatever it was, Langown.

But

and I noticed about an hour into the dinner, I noticed, I looked around the table.

And all the plates were half eaten.

All of them.

No one had finished their meal.

And I said, I can't help it.

I noticed, but and then people had pushed away their food or asked it to be taken away.

And I'm like, I said, I said, this is very unusual.

No one's eating their food.

And I said, can I ask a question?

And obviously, it was off the record.

I said, who here is on GLP-1 drugs?

And they all looked at each other sheepishly.

And like eight of the 14

folks, it was 12 men and two women, raised their hands.

And that is supposed to be the tell for if a drug works, is its adoption by the medical community itself.

But these things,

if you were to stop 10 people on the street in America and find 10 hardcore users of AI and 10 people on GLP-1 drugs and query them about the impact on their life emotionally, psychologically, economically, I think GLP-1 is having a much bigger impact on people than AI.

I'm talking about getting it down to

the regular, you know, the people.

I did it.

You should give it out.

Well, that's the thing.

I did an interview with a nurse who was 350 pounds and she went down, but they, what they did, and then I introduced her doctor, who's also a well-known weight loss doctor.

And it was a nutritionally focused doctor, but it was combined with learning how to cook at fresh foods and exercise.

Like it's the whole package.

It's the whole package and not just this is not that you just take the drug and that's it.

And that's what was, I mean, I was, of all the interviews I've done for this thing, that interview was the most moving because I had dinner with her family.

And one thing that was really interesting is she, she said to me in the kitchen, she goes, I was embarrassed.

I couldn't do things with them.

Like they went to the Grand Canyon.

It's a very fit family, except for her.

And they went and hiked and I couldn't do it.

And I'd have two seats on an airplane.

You know, the whole, the whole story of overweight people.

And

she goes, I was.

I was so embarrassed for them.

I was embarrassing to them.

And

I repeated it.

She hadn't ever told her family and they were heartbroken that she felt that way.

It was a really,

I was very moved.

You know what I mean?

And it wasn't like I could, because she tried everything.

Like she tried all the diets and everything else.

And I have to say, she has such a better life.

Like, and it's not someone who has a lot of money, very modest house in Massachusetts, nurse, hardworking, and knows about health, right?

It's not someone who's not aware of the issues.

And just, it seems like she's going to live a lot longer.

That's just the facts, right?

And so I was like, the combination of the drug with lifestyle changes that, and the drug allows you to do the lifestyle changes more successfully is a really interesting thing.

But what do you think of Trump doing this?

This is like crazy.

Like, although it's kind of good, like in this case, I'm like, fine.

I love this topic.

So let me back up.

The reason why Gavin Newsom will likely be president in 2028 is the same reason why we should have a federal program to get GLP-1 drugs out to everyone that needs them after negotiating a ridiculously low price.

And it's the following.

America is an exceptionally and dangerously and unfairly luxus country.

And one of the strongest forward-looking indicators of whether a child is going to suffer from adulthood depression is if they're overweight.

And also the American Academy of Pediatrics, which is not promiscuous around recommending drug intervention for children, has recommended,

right, has embraced GLP-1 for children.

Because here's the bottom line.

When you're obese in America on many levels, you're fucked.

You're going to have trouble finding a mate.

You're going to have trouble getting hired.

People immediately look at you and regardless of how many subscriptions to the Atlantic or the New York Times, they immediately subconsciously go, weak.

And it's unfair.

And then you look in the mirror and you go, I'm weak and I have no control of my life.

And in my view, after negotiating a radically low price and playing them off against each other, Every household in America that is suffering from obesity, not a woman looking to lose her last 10 pounds, but if a doctor says obesity is a presage for diabetes for you, it is getting in the way of your mental health.

It is getting in the way of your ability to exercise.

This shit should be everywhere.

It's like fluoride and water.

Put the GLP-1 in effectively, metaphorically, in water.

This would be one of the most accretive things emotionally and financially we could do in the United States over 36 months.

One of the things that I am against is like what Pete Hegseth did, fat generals.

Like making it awful, figuring out ways for people to have a better life is different than using fat shaming and everything to do.

100%.

I'm not.

I'm just like, that's what I'm saying.

And then the second thing is,

what's interesting about the Trump administration, RFK Jr.

is against all this, and Oz is on the other side.

So this should be a really interesting discussion, I think.

It'll be interesting to see what happens here because RFK thinks you should just jog and eat, you know, kill your own animals.

Well, yeah, but RFK is blessed with good genetics.

And

Mehmet is a doctor, and he sees some people,

you know, everybody has people who are overweight in their lives.

And we immediately look at them, and we unfairly think they're weak.

A lot of them are in food deserts.

A lot of them don't have the the money to do anything but eat cheap calories, which are fat.

And quite frankly, a lot of them are just born really big.

They're just, you know, they're born big.

So we need empathy.

Having said that, Kara, I do think there was a movement that was unproductive.

And unfortunately, there's no,

the pendulum is never at the middle where it's like, okay, let's have empathy for this people.

Let's figure out programs to give them the capability.

Let's give them GLP-1 drugs.

But when the industrial food complex, including Coca-Cola, McDonald's, which, by the way, is the stock price of Coca-Cola, PepsiCo, McDonald's, KFC, they're all almost entirely correlated to obesity in the U.S.

And so what did they do?

And also,

many of the major clothing brands are very much tied to plus-size clothing.

What did they do?

They started to romanticize.

and celebrate obesity.

And I hate to say this, and I'll get negative comments for it.

You're not finding your truth.

You're finding a fucking ventilator in diabetes.

So while we have to have empathy for this people, let's at least be honest and say, folks, this is not something to romanticize and celebrate.

No, but it was because of the hatefulness that went on for decades before.

I think it's okay.

No, maybe so.

Maybe so.

But the kind of, if we're, I've had heavy people in my family, it's hateful, the kind of things people say.

I agree with you.

And now they have a tool

to help get people there.

And it is no question the right thing to do.

It's just that

making people feel ugly about themselves is never a prescription to good health.

That's what we do.

We agree with that.

But should we have done away with the Presidential Fitness Awards that celebrates fitness because we think of it as fat shaming?

Trump doesn't exercise.

Look, if he ends up dropping the price, I'm good with it.

Answer my question.

I used to be very motivated to get the Presidential Fitness Award, the third, the fourth, and I didn't get the fifth years because I had a growth spurt and I couldn't do the pull-ups.

And it was very motivating for me to be fit and strong.

Just one last thing.

I'm virtue signaling right now.

Pharmaceuticals, GLP-1 can do what there was a drug, there was a drug that changed my life.

Changed my life.

Harris Fisher.

And I'm still addicted to it.

What's the definition of addiction?

Something you continue to engage in despite the fact it damages.

One last thing.

What's your extra?

That's right.

What's your excuse?

I'm addicted.

And baby, if this addiction is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Loving you is wrong.

When are you getting that facial?

Anyways, all right.

A drug, I had, until the age of 40,

I had never taken an Advil.

I just never took any sort of drug.

I barely, I think I saw the doctor eight times up until the age of 40.

Okay.

I just didn't, my parents didn't have money.

Short story.

Go ahead.

Go ahead.

Okay.

A drug literally changed my life.

Any guesses?

And it has to do with aesthetics.

I don't know.

Milk tuds.

From the age of 13 to 19, if I was ever able to maneuver using a mix of humor, luck, and persistence, able to get a date, this is what you did on a date.

Liquor.

You would take a woman to a movie.

And I remember going to see Greece

with Melanie Burke.

Okay.

Mourinho Burke.

Excuse me.

Marino Burke.

And I was so excited.

I went down to this ridiculous, preppy store.

I'd saved up.

I got my mom to give me a credit card.

I couldn't spend more than $30.

And I bought nice corduroys and a, and a polo, Ralph Lauren polo shirt with the the actual polo logo on it.

And I bought Sperry Top Ciders.

I was just so fucking ready.

Got it.

And I'd go into Greece.

And every time I went into a movie on the few dates I had, I would have to purposely plan, do I go into the aisle first or do I let her go into the aisle first?

And you know what that was based on?

What?

Which side of my face?

had fewer zits than the other.

Oh, okay.

Every time I went to the movies, I would strategically plan which side am I going to sit on?

Because my acne was so bad, I would have to think, which side is it less grotesque?

Oh, wow.

And finally, my dermatologist, after soaking me for six years of money I did not have,

said, maybe we should try this drug called Accutane.

Accutane, yeah.

And in 11 weeks,

I had perfect skin.

Perfect skin.

And if you want to talk about someone going through the most sensitive, insecure, self-conscious time time of their life, and they have white heads and enormous, and just their face is riddled with acne up and down their back and their throat.

And all you can think about when you're talking to someone is they're staring at my zits and they hurt and they, they're painful.

And then nine weeks, 11 weeks later, I have perfect, beautiful skin.

And all of a sudden, girls are smiling at me.

And all of a sudden, I don't think about my skin.

And all of a sudden, shaving isn't like land, isn't like navigating a fucking landmine it's the only letter i've ever the first letter i'd ever written to a corporation i wrote to hoffman the roche and said and said this has absolutely changed my life and now and i did this about

it's i feel like it was two months ago seven months ago i was at a gas station in nantucket where they actually pump your gas okay go ahead and there was a young man and he had terrible cystic acne and i said look

i'm not i i i'm probably overstepping my boundaries here i had terrible acne i took a drug called accutane and it cleared it up in 11 weeks and it changed

and now now we have Scott, you know, celebrities are microdosing Accutane now.

Just so you know.

But my point is, I think that GLP-1 can do that.

I kind of think there's an equivalence between terrible acne and obesity.

And if you can give people back their confidence, their sense of self, their,

I mean,

there's nothing more.

And let's not make people feel badly.

When you see this interview, she tried everything.

But in any case,

we think this is fascinating.

We'll keep covering it.

All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break.

And when we come back, we'll talk about a major security hack.

No, not the Louvre.

Support for the show comes from Vanguard.

The lineup includes over 80 bond funds.

To all the financial advisors listening, let's talk about bonds for a minute.

Capturing value and fixed income is not easy.

Bond markets can be massive, murky, and let's be real, a lot of firms throw a couple of flashy funds your way and call it a day, but not Vanguard.

Vanguard bonds are institutional quality.

They're actively managed by a 200-person global squad of sector specialists, analysts, and traders.

Lots of firms like to highlight their star portfolio managers, like it's all about the one brilliant mind making the magic happen.

Vanguard's philosophy is a little different.

They believe the best active strategy should be shared across the team.

That way, every client benefits from the collective brain power, not just one individual's take.

So, if you're looking to give your clients consistent results year in and year out, go see the record for yourself at Vanguard.com slash pivot.

That's vanguard.com slash pivot.

All investing is subject to risk.

Vanguard Marketing Corporation distributor.

Support for Pivot comes from LinkedIn Jobs.

As a small business owner, your work hours aren't dictated by the hands on a clock.

Your business is on your mind 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

So when you're hiring, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do.

That hiring partner is LinkedIn Jobs.

When you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in by making it easy to post your job, share it with your network, and qualified candidates that you can manage all in one place.

LinkedIn's new feature can help you write job descriptions and quickly get your job in front of the right people with deep candidate insights.

Either post your job for free or pay to promote as promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants.

At the end of the day, LinkedIn wants you to feel confident that you're getting the best because the most important thing to your small business is the quality of candidates.

And based on LinkedIn data, 72% of small business owners using LinkedIn say that the platform helps them find high-quality candidates.

Plus, you can let your network know you're hiring by adding the hashtag hiring frame to your profile picture to get two times more qualified candidates.

Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring today.

Find your next great hire on LinkedIn.

Post your job for free at linkedin.com/slash pivot.

That's linkedin.com/slash pivot to post your job for free.

Terms and conditions apply.

All right, remember, the machine knows if you're lying.

First statement: Carvana will give you a real offer on your car all online.

False.

True, actually.

You can sell your car in minutes.

False?

That's gotta be.

True again.

Carvana will pick up your car from your door, or you can drop it off at one of their car vending machines.

Sounds too good to be true, so true.

Finally, caught on.

Nice job.

Honesty isn't just their policy, it's their entire model.

Sell your car today, too.

Carvana.

Pickup Pickup fees may apply.

Scott, we're back with more news.

Cybersecurity and network security company F5 says nation state hackers broke into its systems this summer, exfiltrating files and stealing some source code.

The breach has been blamed on state-backed hackers from China.

Over 80% of the Fortune Global 500 as well as universities and credit unions are F5.

customers.

This is as big as SolarWind to many people I've talked to this week, actually.

F5 is a publicly traded company, which would usually mean it's required to disclose cyber attacks within four business days, but the DHA allowed the company to delay notification, which can do for attacks that pose national security risks.

Really disturbing.

And I'll note early Monday morning, a major AWS outage took down services like Amazon, Snapchat, and Chat GPT.

There was no indication of malicious, anything malicious at play.

But again, every single cyber person I talked to this week was like, this is bad.

This is another bad.

Our landscape is so porous for hackers from state-backed, especially from China.

It was another disturbing thing that they didn't have to say anything, that people couldn't act.

And we are so exposed from a security point of view.

This was a really bad attack for people to understand

how dependent we are on these kind of things and how vulnerable.

What I don't understand is, and it's easy to hug off in the cheap seats, is I've met some of our

folks who run our cybersecurity or our cyber defense, and

they're very popular conferences.

And by the way, most of them have been fired because

they're not Republicans, which makes no fucking sense to me.

But

what they all say is that we actually have the best.

And what I don't understand is why isn't it like nuclear weapons in that sense that if they do something like this, shouldn't we be hitting them back three times as hard until we all come to sort of a détente?

We may be.

But they were in there.

One of the things that's classic of these things,

they've been in there for two years.

And then

they place things there and then disappear and erase where they were.

And that's what they've been doing.

And so, you know, there's very little known because they keep everything quiet.

And the question is, what should people know?

What should we understand about it?

Everyone considers this as big as solar winds, which happened in 2020, the end of 2020.

and so you know i i suspect lots of stuff is going on behind the scenes with this stuff um but again the cuts in by this administration again exposes us the solar winds happened in the trump administration right it was the end of it was before by just before biden got into office and it's the same thing the idea of like exposing we we have such an exposed

everything between our infrastructure

is bigger the surface attack is bigger and we do not have the people in place in the government as much.

I mean, remember, he fired Chris Krabs, who's

I love Chris Krabs, and

you know, a lot of people.

But we're, you know, all this is all interconnected, including with the federal government.

And so the Chinese have been very successful.

I suspect we have been hacking them too, et cetera, et cetera.

But there's broad risks here that I think,

as a country, we have not taken seriously, given our dependence on this.

And even the ones that aren't deemed malicious, like this one this morning, these, these may, if AWS has a major outage, all the services get affected, whether it's, you know, Amazon, the stuff we use day to day.

And so so much, it's such a, it's something we really do need.

We should talk about more.

And it's complex, obviously, but we, our country is much more exposed than people realize.

I just, I'll just note that.

Well, our, our tech infrastructure, technology loves scale and compatibility, right?

So So everything's running on the same source code and can be more fluid and more frictionless.

And to their credit, we have 50 states and 50 different electoral procedures and 50 independent technologies tallying votes.

And a lot of people

or tech companies have said this should all be on one system.

And the best defense against that is that, okay, it's feasible that one of us gets hacked, but it's very unlikely all 50 are going to get hacked because we're all on different systems.

And just as technology loves scale, it creates more vulnerability because you have entire power grids now that are essentially, if someone figures out how to hack that power grid, you know, you could have three states in the southeast go down.

And what this requires, which we don't have, it requires skill and resources of which we have more than anyone in the world.

What we don't have is the long game.

So, for example, I think the greatest anti-terrorist precision attack in history was the Pager attack against Hezbollah.

That was years in the making.

And what the Chinese do is the long game, my guess is a lot of every time there's a real, there's a

cyber attack, my guess is it was put in place or the wheels were put in motion two or three years ago.

And unfortunately, because of this political back and forth and firing and hiring, it is much more difficult.

And also, just American mentality focused on quarterly earnings.

American mentality does not play the long game.

And the Chinese, you know, the Chinese have a 50-year plan.

So

they already have assets on the ground here trying to implant listening devices, security code, routers that maybe in two, three, five years they activate.

Because what you don't want to do to raise red flags, red flags are a function of not only the activity, but the cluster and the concentration of them.

And so if it's just one or two small infiltrations and then there's not a follow-up, people don't worry as much about it.

And part of there's so many ways that our short-term, quite frankly, thinking helps us, but on a a lot of levels, it hurts us.

And this is one of those ways.

These guys aren't in for the long game.

They'll start putting in place the infrastructure for cyber attacks that they won't be able to activate for five or seven or 10 years.

Yeah, absolutely.

Anyway, one more quick break, and we'll be back for wins and fails.

Let's be honest.

Are you happy with your job?

Like, really happy?

The unfortunate fact is that a huge number of people can't say yes to that.

Far too many of us are stuck in a job we've outgrown, or one we never wanted in the first place.

But still, we stick it out, and we give reasons like, what if the next move is even worse?

I've already put years into this place.

And maybe the most common one, isn't everyone kind of miserable at work?

But there's a difference between reasons for staying and excuses for not leaving.

It's time to get unstuck.

It's time for Strawberry.me.

They match you with a certified career coach who helps you go from where you are to where you actually want to be.

Your coach helps you get clear on your goals, create a plan, build your confidence, and keeps you accountable along the way.

So don't leave your career to chance.

Take action and own your future with a professional coach in your corner.

Go to strawberry.me slash unstuck to claim a special offer.

That's strawberry.me slash unstuck.

Support for the show comes from Crucible Moments, a podcast from Sequoia Capital.

We've all had pivotal decision points in our lives that, whether we know it or not at the time, changed everything.

This is especially true in business.

Like, did you know that autonomous drone delivery company Zipline originally produced a robotic toy?

Or that Bolt went from an Estonian transportation company to one of the largest rideshare and food delivery platforms in the world.

That's what Crucible Moments is all about.

Hosted by Sequoia Capital's managing partner Rolof Boeta, Crucible Moments is back for a new season with stories of companies as they navigated the most consequential crossroads in their journeys.

Hear conversations with leaders at Zipline, Stripe, Palo Alto Networks, Klarna, Supercell, and more.

Subscribe to season three of Crucible Moments and catch up on seasons one and two at cruciblemoments.com on YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listen to Crucible Moments today.

When will AI finally make work easier?

How about today?

Say hello to Gemini Enterprise from Google Cloud, a simple, easy-to-use platform letting any business tap the best of Google AI.

Retailers are already using AI agents to help customers reschedule deliveries all on their own.

Bankers are automating millions of customer requests so they can focus on more personal service.

And nurses are getting automated reports, freeing them up for patient care.

It's a new way to work.

Learn more about Gemini Enterprise at cloud.google.com

Okay, Scott, some wins and fails.

We got to be quick because Kara's got another interview soon.

Why don't you start?

Well,

the obvious obvious one here is,

and we spent some time talking about it.

I do think that the protests were an enormous win for America.

We've all been just so desperate for some pushback and wondering where Americans are.

Well, 7 million turned out, and that's about 2% of the population.

Supposedly,

I don't know where this test comes from, but supposedly when you hit 3.5%, which would be 11 million, that's when real action starts.

But I just don't think there's any getting around it.

A lot of Republican congressmen and senators must have noticed that and said, okay, this is,

there's some real issues here.

So I thought at a minimum, it just gave a lot of comfort to Americans that people value our democracy.

They value peaceful protest and they're resisting and they're willing to give up their own time.

And they really do value the blessings, the liberties, and the, you know, the prosperity.

So look,

that's my win.

I thought it was really,

really wonderful and inspiring.

And I tried to take my kids to the tube station where their mother slept to talk about fascism.

They wanted nothing to do with it.

But there were protests in Germany.

There were protests in the UK.

They were all incredibly peaceful, incredibly positive, incredibly optimistic.

It was just a good look for America, a very good look for a democracy, a very good look for people who want to resist against Trump.

That's my win.

That's an easy one.

The fail is

George Santos, the disgraced representative, his seven-year prison sentence has been commuted by Trump after serving just three months.

He pled guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft.

Look, he lied.

He committed crimes.

He was an embarrassment to the government.

But the thing that really chased me here, he's no longer required to pay back more than $370,000 in court-ordered restitution to his victims.

So the people he lied to and stole from, he no longer has to pay them back.

In addition,

he was only the sixth lawmaker in U.S.

history to be expelled from Congress after an ethics report was released outlining his behavior in 2023.

He was also the first to be expelled before being convicted of federal crimes or supporting the Confederacy.

So just some of his claims.

He claimed his grandparents were Holocaust survivors.

They were not.

He claimed that the CCP kidnapped his five-year-old niece.

That is not true.

He claimed to be Jewish, then Jew-ish.

He claimed he was a model for Vogue.

That's my favorite.

He claimed he had a university degree.

By the way, he said he went on a volleyball scholarship.

That guy hasn't jumped since 1988.

He claimed he had a brain tumor.

And some of the more outlandish things he said or did while after being in Congress, he spent campaign funds on Botox, Hermes, and my favorite, OnlyFans.

He started selling $200 cousin videos on Cameo.

I'm like, that's that bad.

He had a staffer impersonate Kevin McCarthy's chief of staff to raise money.

And he committed ID theft by using donors' credit cards to make purchases.

So, and what's so sad about this,

there are some people who are currently incarcerated who have applied for clemency, and some of them have done their best to compensate their victims, show that they're on the right track, and are deserving of clemency.

And because they're trying to get Marjorie Taylor Greene back in camp, on camp, and she seemed to like George Santos, They move a guy who showed no remorse, who was a fucking embarrassment to the Constitution, to America.

They push this guy to the front of the line, and the people he stole from are shit out of luck, such that we can, such that the president can kiss Marjorie Taylor Greene's ass.

This is such an abuse of the whole, the basic understanding of what clemency is.

Well, clemency.

The clemency in pardoning is a wonderful thing.

We get it wrong all the time in our justice system.

The justice system is a powerful, but it is a crude instrument.

And we find out new evidence comes to light, or we find out that for whatever reason, strange laws resulted in a guy who stole an antenna from a Kmart gets issued a life sentence.

And these things are taken seriously, and very talented people review these things.

And we're just making a mockery of the system.

Anyways, my fail.

is that Representative George Santos, his sentence was commuted because of the president's attempt to get Marjorie Taylor Green to stop talking about the Epstein files.

And by the way, my favorite sign was: GOP, Guardians of Pedophiles.

Oh, dear.

Anyway, my fail is these issues around these tech companies and safety, like pushing back against the idea there should be safety.

But it's more than that.

There's a great story in the New York Times today about as tech companies build data centers worldwide to advance artificial intelligence, vulnerable communities have been hit by blackouts and water shortages.

They're not just

the idea idea that we are against advancing technology at any,

and then they say it at any cost is ridiculous.

They're setting it up so that they get all the juicy bits and they hurt people around the globe.

60% of the data centers are outside of the U.S.

And there's lots of projects coming all over the place around the world, but it takes enormous amounts of power for computing and water to cool the computers.

And these people are, you know, the famous one was Musk going into a community, I think, in Tennessee and polluting it because he wanted to get his thing up faster than anyone else.

And all the governments are angling to give them cheap land and tax breaks and things like that.

But there is very little transparency around how they're building these data centers.

And it's the same idea.

They don't care about safety of anybody because they themselves are doing things.

And it's really hurting individual communities.

And they go into vulnerable communities.

communities

to be able to do it, to do what they need to do.

And it's very dangerous.

And they're not really investing in the communities because most of these things use very few people.

And so, and these plans just sail through.

And it's the same idea.

If Anthropic wants to talk about safety, or if we want to talk about safety, it doesn't mean we hate it.

It means that we care about the citizens more than lining the pockets of David Sachs and his friends.

I have two very quick wins.

I've got to give a credit to both Lorraine Powell Jobs and Ron Conway.

He resigned from the Board of Salesforce's Philanthropic Arm over Mark Benioff's original comments about bringing National Guard into San Francisco.

Lorraine Powell Jobs also wrote an essay, Beware of Philanthropists Who Want to Control in Exchange for Their Giving.

And it was a great essay about that.

I really give kudos to them for stepping out rather a lot against Mark's stupid

comments.

He's now doesn't believe the National Guard needs to come.

He walked himself back, but he tarnished himself.

So I give credit to that.

Lots of people complained, but it's hard to go out on a limb if you're in that group of people and they did.

But I actually want to give the win to the diplomat.

The new seasons downloaded to Netflix, and Carrie Russell is so good.

It's such a good, and Alice and Janny and

Bradley Whitford.

Everybody on that cast is amazing.

So you have a crush on Carrie Russell.

I love her.

She's a fan of Pivot, by the way.

I don't have a crush on her.

I actually have a crush on the whole show because it's so diplomatty.

I wanted to be in the State Department.

So I love the whole thing.

It's sort of like my home.

I liked homework.

Is she going to Korea with you?

No, she's not.

But we're going to have like, she's a fan of Pivot.

She lied on it.

I'm not.

I just say Carrie Russell and you start smoking.

No, no, no.

It's okay.

You're wrong.

Not my type.

But nonetheless.

I know you're 80.

You still have hormones.

No, I did.

She's not my type.

I've been taking that estrogen.

You're getting it.

I just want to say it's a great show.

And lots of people like this show.

Stop it.

Everyone likes it.

As usual, you turn something beautiful into ugliness.

But it's a great show.

I've never seen it.

No.

Never seeing it.

All right.

It's great.

You would love it.

I watched four episodes of Slow Horses last night.

Okay.

If you like that, you do like Homeland?

love homeland okay you'll love this the the writer i think is

the writer of this is deborah kahn she's so talented but there was one line this is why i love it there's all these great lines besides she doesn't comb her hair etc and they make jokes about it but um there's one line yeah i'm sure she looks just awful

she's the one that like yeah but yeah that that's let me guess she's like really sloppy and still looks like a nine out of ten

11 out of 10.

yeah

but um she's really good she's had a great career she's had really interesting interesting roles, including the Americans and things like that.

But I don't want to talk about Carrie Joesel because I think she's great.

But I have to say there's a lot of lines in it.

The writers are terrific.

And they end one reminding me of you, which is you're about, they're talking about her husband, Hal, and I'm blanking on the actor's name who played, but who's great too.

But she goes,

you're about as subtle as a kidney stone, which I immediately thought of you, Scott.

I appreciate that.

You're about as subtle as a kidney stone.

Anyway, I love that show.

and now you're making it ugly, which is very sad.

I have comments on all of this.

Do you have to go get a pedic here with Boutros Gali?

No, no, go ahead.

Very quickly, very quickly.

That's impossible for me.

Okay, first off, the data centers.

The data centers are nothing but, again, another elegant transfer of wealth from middle-class homes to big tech.

How is that going to happen?

They are picking these areas where they are, quote-unquote, desperate for jobs or where the congressperson representing that area wants to get some of that AI money sent to their

for

regulatory capture, for campaign fundraising.

And the bottom line is these data centers might as well be dark during the day.

They create very few jobs.

What they do is they will create jobs to get built, but they create very few ongoing jobs.

What they do is they are so power hungry that you are going to see 50, 100, 200, 300% increases in electricity costs in these areas.

And what will end up happening is the government, these people will get outraged.

So the government will step in and will subsidize the electricity costs of the grid, which is nothing but a transfer of wealth from taxpayers, especially people consuming electricity in those regions, to big tech firms.

Everything in America right now is trying to prop up 10 firms who have been responsible for 77% of the SP's gain this year, which is the only cloud cover that Donald Trump has to send federal troops into peaceful cities.

This is another, this will be another elegant transfer of wealth.

And then what was your second one?

Kerry Russell.

Oh, wait, Carrie Russell, the diplomat?

Oh, no, Mark Benioff.

Just so I can fill our YouTube comments with a bunch of hate, I love Laurie Powell Jobs.

I thought it was an elegant article.

I think Ron Conway is fantastic.

He invested in two of my companies.

This is how we lose 28.

And that is, I get it.

Mark Benioff said something stupid.

He has since apologized.

And now everyone is doing what Democrats do.

They're more interested.

in a purity test.

They're more interested in grabbing social virtue.

They're more interested in getting their guardians of gotcha pin.

They're more interested in going after a white billionaire than they are around being effective.

Mark Benioff is a huge ally for San Francisco.

He is a huge ally for Democrats.

He fucked up, and he's being treated like an apostate.

And this is exactly what is wrong with the people who are.

They said things were before.

They said things before, and they didn't want to affiliate with you.

But if you're Mark Benioff.

Yeah.

And you have literally spent 20 years trying to be the most generous guy in California,

supportive of progressive policies, supportive of Democratic politics, And then all these Democrats wave in with their finger because he fucked up and he did fucked up.

And by the way, he's apologized.

Let's just talk about the reality of this.

Do you think Mark Benioff is now going to be really, really in it to win it and support Democratic candidates right now?

Or is he thinking, you know what, guys?

Go fuck yourselves.

This is what Democrats do.

We have decided, maybe you're my ally, but you're holding the gun wrong.

So I'm going to go after you rather than the real enemy.

Could we be any more fucking stupid?

And this is the typical Democrat.

He asked for National Guard to come to San Francisco.

He fucked up.

And he's also been an enormous, an enormous supporter of Democratic ideals and politics.

And here's the thing.

I'm not agreeing with you.

Oh, sorry.

One strike, you're out.

We're Democrats.

And guess what?

JD Vance in 2028.

This is exactly how we lose the election.

No, I think we should go.

Democrats are much more concerned with grabbing social virtue than

to be critical of your own allies.

It's not.

It's normal.

It's actually what.

No, you're so far down the Trump world.

Such a talon.

Oh, yeah.

Me and Trump were very tyled.

No, no, but the Trump world is you don't apologize for anything.

And you, you, he did apologize.

He kind of did, but that's okay.

Whatever.

He said, I'm sorry.

Yes.

He said my comments real time, and I'm sorry.

And now everyone's writing op-eds about how billionaires and philanthropy shouldn't.

No, that op-ed was written, by the way, before, and I think it influenced him, by the way, FYI.

And I think there is so much,

there is so much,

there is so much hate right now out there from people who see an opportunity to pile on and grab social virtue at no risk to themselves.

Guess who I interviewed?

Action.

I've got a good

time.

He says, we shouldn't even go in with the billionaires.

The lady giving you a squid facial.

And so

I interviewed Bernie Sanders, and he's like, this is the problem with going with the rich people.

And just saying, he's just

going to demonize rich people.

Not demonize them, but we, come on rich people have had billionaires shouldn't exist according to bernie standards no rich people had far too much of an influence in both parties far too much far too much and that's what's got to end that's citizens united yes i get it but they've had far too much but in the meantime let's try and get as many billionaires on our side no i i no we've got to like build a we have to build a coalition of ethics the same people saying maybe it would be smart to bring elon musk back into the democratic party are taking a great Democrat who fucked up and basically putting him, casting him onto

islands.

They won't let him into the Trump gang anyway, so it doesn't matter.

That said, we should have not, there's been too much billionaire influence of all the billionaires on both sides, and it has to stop.

Anyway, we're not going to argue about this.

Citizens United, you're saying we should, we should, I agree with you.

We should do away with Citizens United.

Okay.

All right.

Let's end on that.

And by the way,

by the way, Mike Johnson, swear in Democratic Representative Grijalva, you squirmy little bitch.

Put her in office.

That's awful.

Put her in office because you know what?

The Epstein.

What a lie.

What a lie.

The guy running the country right now is in an unmarked grave.

Jeffrey Epstein is running the country right now.

Put her in office.

She was elected by people.

I want the people to speak.

Anyway, we want to hear from you.

Send us your questions about business tech or whatever's on your mind.

Go to nmymag.com/slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 8-5551-PIVOT elsewhere in the Carrot and Scott universe.

This week, and on with Carrot Switcher, I just said I spoke with Senator Bernie Sanders just as he got back from the No Kings rally.

Let's listen to what he had to say about pushing back against billionaires.

Let's listen to him.

Money is important.

I'm a politician.

You don't need zillions of dollars to run a campaign.

You need a certain amount,

and you can win.

But that is, and then, of course, ultimately, you've got to get rid of the Citizens United, which allows billionaires to buy elections.

So he'll turn on billionaires.

Say, just ignore it.

Just say good for that.

If they want to contribute and play a role, that's fine.

I mean, I appreciate that.

I'm not, you know, there are a lot of decent people who happen to be billionaires.

They think that democracy and truth is important.

God bless them.

But the future of this country depends on working-class people standing up and taking on the billionaire class, which is getting richer and richer.

I agree with all of that.

See, there you go.

Now, see, you didn't think that that was the case.

He's very reasonable.

Anyway, and remind me.

I like Bernie.

I know I do too.

Lots of people do.

It was amazing that a lot of Bernie bros went to Toronto.

I think they're coming back in a lot of ways.

If he, a lot of his messages, he's coming.

He's coming around.

Suddenly, everyone's coming around to Bernie.

And a reminder, we're going on tour.

We'll be going to Toronto, Boston, New York, D.C., Chicago, San Francisco, and L.A.

Visit pivottour.com for tickets.

There's very few left, actually.

Okay, that's the show.

Thanks for listening to Pivot.

Be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel.

We'll be back on Friday.

Scott, next time I see you, i will have had my shrimp semen uh facial i'll let you know how it goes read us out today's show was produced by larinoe marcus and taylor griven earning your todd entered this episode jim mackle edited the video additional support from brad sylvester and rosemarie ho

Thanks also to Drew Burroughs, Mia Severio, and Dan Shulan.

Nishat Kura is Vox Media's executive producer of podcasts.

Make sure to follow Pivot on your favorite podcast platform.

Thanks for listening to Pivot from your magazine, Vox Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod.

We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.

Kara,

I call my penis Bernie Sanders because it leans far left and stands up for everyone.

That's cool.

That's bad.

Mercury knows that to an entrepreneur, every financial move means more.

An international wire means working with the best contractors on any continent.

A credit card on day one means creating an ad campaign on day two.

And a business loan means loading up on inventory for Black Friday.

That's why Mercury offers banking that does more, all in one place, so that doing just about anything with your money feels effortless.

Visit mercury.com to learn more.

Mercury is a financial technology company, not a bank.

Banking services provided through Choice Financial Group column NA and Evolve Bank and Trust members FDIC.

Support for the show comes from Google Pixel and the all-new Google Pixel 10.

Tired of settling for the same old phone?

It's time to switch to the Google Pixel 10.

With Magic Q, get the right info right when you need it, and the built-in camera coach helps guide you on how to take the best pick and generate videos of pretty much anything you can imagine with Gemini.

Head to the Google store now to learn more about how Google Pixel never settles.

Magic Q availability varies.

User 18 and up.

Camera coach results may vary.

Subscription required and availability varies for VO3 video generation.

Users 18 and up.

Support for the show comes from Charles Schwab.

At Schwab, how you invest is your choice, not theirs.

That's why when it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices.

You can invest and trade on your own.

Plus, get advice and more comprehensive wealth solutions to help meet your unique needs.

With award-winning service, low costs, and transparent advice, you can manage your wealth your way at Schwab.

Visit schwab.com to learn more.