The Late Show with Joe Biden

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Visit WixFilters.com to find Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
I'm Jon Lovett. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
Tommy Vitor. We are here live in Chicago for the Democratic National Convention.
Are we live? I guess we're live. I mean, we're alive.
We're barely alive. We're always live having a conversation.
On tonight's show, Joe Biden addresses the Democratic convention, and Donald Trump apparently thinks he's still running against him. Plus, Illinois Governor J.B.
Pritzker stops by to talk about hosting the convention and why he's had so much success fighting back against Republican attacks. And the bears.
And the bears. And the White Sox sucking.
And the White Sox sucking. And the cops.
It was a a wide-ranging interview. He's a good time.
He was fun to talk to. You guys had a good time? He gave us beers.
He did? Yeah, we drank with him. We had a couple beers.
Oh, that's fun. Yeah.
Well, Lovett and I went to go drink with some Vote Save America volunteers. Yeah.
So that was pretty fun. Also good.
Everyone wins. That was really special.
You guys want to talk a little bit about the convention first? What it's been like being here? For the last we've been here for, what, 96 hours straight without sleeping? That's just tonight's program. Should we paint a picture? We're in a box made of blue pipe and drape directly adjacent to the Newsmax TV studio.
They're right there. For those of you watching, right there.
There's our Newsmax friends. We're surrounded by plants.
Some real, some fake plants some real some fake so you have to guess which we've run into a lot of people a lot of friends the pod we love that these guys had a good time uh john and love it had a good time with dean phillips we did we had a great reunion with dean phillips we did and love it what did you say oh what i said i said uh dean phillips you son of a bitch how dare you be right before it was what I say. You were right too early.
Shame on you.

Fuck you for being right too early.

And then some random person came up and screamed.

It's the retribution gang.

I don't even know what that means.

I don't either.

But you know what?

It's a good time.

It's joyous here.

It is.

People are fired up.

People are fired up.

There's energy.

There's excitement. Everyone's got a smile on their faces.

We love that.

All right.

Let's start with the first night is in the books of the most surprising and consequential Democratic National Convention of our lifetimes. There were many, many speakers.
Some might say too many speakers, but the headliners, of course, were Joe and Jill Biden and Hillary Clinton. Kamala Harris made a surprise appearance on stage.
There were some really powerful testimonials from women whose pregnancies became nightmares under Dobbs, and also AOC and Steve Kerr gave fantastic speeches. But let's start with the man himself, Joe Biden.
Quite a balancing act for him, celebrating and also saying goodbye. Unfortunately, some of you might have missed it because the pre-program went so long that he got knocked out of primetime.
It was ridiculous. I was mad on behalf of Joe Biden.
They bumped James Taylor to make room for Joe Biden, which means they gave James Taylor's spot to Jamie Raskin. Tough town.
Or Chris Coons or somebody. Chris Coons.
Yeah, Chris Coons. Anyway, if you did miss Joe Biden's speech, here are the highlights.
I stand before you now on this August night to report that democracy has prevailed. Democracy, democracy has delivered.
And now democracy must be preserved.

I've got five months left in my presidency.

I've got a lot to do.

I intend to get it done.

It's been the honor of my lifetime to serve as your president.

I love the job, but I love my country more. Selecting Kamala was the very first decision I made when I became our nominee.
And it was the best decision I made my whole career. We've not only gotten to know each other, we've become close friends.
She's tough. She's experienced.
And she has enormous integrity. Enormous integrity.
Her story represents the best American story. And like many of our best presidents, she was also vice president.
That's a joke. I promise I'll be the best volunteer Harrison Waltz has ever seen.
All right, let's talk about Joe Biden's speech. What you guys thought was the only speech where he went down to the floor.
We were standing on the floor for the speech. He was a little emotional when he first came out.
He followed his daughter, Ashley Biden, who gave a very moving speech. And he didn't start for a while just because the crowd was, there was so many, we love, we love you, Joe.
Thank you, Joe. So it took a while for him to get going.
And the crowd was really, the crowd was very generous, which was nice. But what did you guys think of the speech? I think the most beautiful moment came later when he said, you know, I love this job, but I love my country more.
And it was genuinely moving. These are all Biden delegates.
These are all people that if Joe Biden hadn't stepped aside would have disregarded anyone who said otherwise and thrown their support behind him. And it was just the capstone of his presidency and a reminder that he did something very selfless.
But it was great that we all had a moment to do that. And then this was his night, I think, to really sort of declare victory of his presidency.
And I think, you know, I think we all want this campaign to be about the future. But I think for Joe Biden, this was his moment to say, I'm really proud of what we got done.
I was proud to seek reelection based on my record. I would like to extol the virtues of my politics.
And I think it's also incumbent on on everybody to say, all right, that is the vision of democratic politics that Joe Biden has been shaping. And now we're going to carry forward.
Dan. Yeah.
Look, Joe Biden did an incredibly important thing for this country when he came out of retirement to beat Donald Trump. He accomplished a ton of things and was a great president.
And this was his moment. There's a moment for that to be celebrated by the people who voted for him or chose him to be to run again.
Right. This was these were his people.
And these are the and just to be specific, he handpicked these delegates. They were picked by his people.
And it was a moment, a time for the moment for the country to celebrate Joe Biden. What he was trying to do.
And like you said, the tricky thing to navigate was lay out all that had been accomplished as a way to say that you can trust Kamala Harris to build on that success, right? And that's, you're trying to both let Joe Biden have his moment and also use that moment as a way to propel her campaign forward. Yeah, on a personal level, I do think Joe Biden deserved a moment to be celebrated to get round after round of applause from that audience tonight.
I think as a political matter, as a political messaging opportunity, it was a lot of it was a missing so far as it was a lot of relitigating accomplishments. It felt a lot like the stump speech.
there was less of a contrast with Donald Trump or an argument made for Kamala Harris as early and as strong as I would have personally liked to have seen. But look, I mean, Joe Biden did something that very few political leaders in world history have ever done, which is willingly step aside and pass the torch.
I think he deserved his moment in the sun, though I don't know that that was the speech. Look, I think it was the speech he might have given, were he the nominee, less than an argument for Kamala Harris.
Yeah, I was remembering when he was speaking in Playbook today, there was a quote from Anita Dunn, who we all worked with and is a very close advisor of Joe Biden, who just left the White House. And now she's at Future Forward, which is the pro the pro Kamala Harris super PAC.
She's talked about the speech. She said this is not a time for legacy.
This is a time for arguing why Kamala Harris is the best candidate. Seems like Anita did not really know the speech.
But it was legacy and I do think that in Biden's defense it was every president gives a farewell address and I think that his farewell address, whether it's Kamala Harris who wins or Donald Trump, God forbid, it's not going to get as much coverage because there's two other candidates. This is probably the biggest audience he'll get until the end of his presidency.
And so I think he wanted to make sure that he had this opportunity to tell the country what he accomplished. You know? Yeah, I'm trying to be generous and like show grace to this person that did something extraordinary that a lot of people asked him to do.
And many people said he wouldn't do. If your goal is to give a speech that does the most that you can to help Kamala Harris win, that was not the speech.
Right. And I hope when he's on the stump, that's the speech we get.
I hope when he's out there over the next couple months, that's the speech we get. He said he wants to be their best volunteer.
I love that line. I really love that.
But that means making it about the most effective version of the argument. And this was much more about legacy than it was about, I think, winning.
I agree with that. But I also think it is totally okay for him to have his moment.
This is not a situation where he's leaving at the end of two terms. Right.
Like Obama with Hillary Clinton. It's extremely unusual.
It's extremely unusual. Up until one month ago, this was his convention.
He would be speaking on Thursday night. He spoke on Monday night.
He got a chance to deliver, as you said, I don't know what the audience was. It's obviously not as large it would have been if they'd actually gotten it in before network coverage.
But the audience of this, I'm sure, is larger than whatever farewell address he would give in January of 2025. And so let him have it.
He deserves it. It's fine.
And I don't even know how, like, what is the speech he would give that would be of massive strategic importance to Kamala Harris? So I think that at some point on the stump, and I agree that like, it was good that he, he deserved to give the speech he did tonight, for sure. I think at some point on the stump over the next couple of months, he can talk about what it was like to work with Kamala Harris over the last four years and why she should be president, why he thinks she should be president, what, like what she helped him accomplish, just just personal stories about her, what it was like working with her, what it's like being her governing partner for the last four years.
I think that would be useful. Yeah.
I mean, there obviously could have been more of that in this speech, for sure. There were times where he weaved in, Kamala and I did this, Kamala and Tim Walls will do this, but there is a segment of voters where he has value for her.
Right. I do just imagine, I mean, listen, we're nitpicking.
I'm not trying to upset anybody. But he did this extraordinary thing where he stepped aside.
He passed the torch, right? No one thought it was possible. No leader ever does this.
If that had been maybe up front the central focus of the speech, the moment, why he did it, why he believes in her, in her it could have i think really been something unique in political history rather than hey look at all this stuff we did and look maybe that maybe joe biden is right that like talking about prescription drug prices and what voters want to hear and dumb pundits like us want to hear the political new thing i also like we we a lot of it was like a uh uh like a collage of things he said before i almost said pastiche and i stopped myself a fine word uh but uh but i didn't uh but i do think like the speech they don't let me uh i keep asking but uh they're they're they're like some of the best moments i do think like were about policy and it might be the kind of thing that gets shared like where when gets shared when he said it was always infrastructure. He didn't build a damn thing.
That's a good line. The damn thing was a good line.
I liked infrastructure decade. I liked infrastructure decade.
You didn't like it as much. I liked it.
I'm just saying I liked it. We can disagree.
That's fine. That's fine.
The new line was Trump didn't build a damn thing. I love that.
I liked infrastructure decade.

As I was listening to the speech, I was thinking in my head,

I have heard all of this before,

both the campaign event or policy event he did with Kamala last week,

the farewell address.

But then I thought in my head how this plays out is,

if I was working, like I did this with Obama all the time,

is some reporter would tweet, nothing new here.

And I'd be like, hey, dumb asshole.

It's not for you. Not for you.
The people we care about are the ones who don't pay attention every day. And that is true.
Well, let's talk about the people who might not have seen it because the program went far too long tonight. Love it.
We're in day two. As a fellow speech writer, should we go on a harangue about this? I'm like genuinely outraged about what's happening.
People are speaking too fucking slow and I don't know what to do to address it. I've talked about this on multiple...
I can't stop talking about it. Once you see it, you can't stop.
But people are not speaking over the applause. They're speaking at under 100 words per minute.
When you're watching at home, you can't hear the crowd. And so people are just standing up there interminably.
People's attention spans are lower than they used to be. I don't know why speakers are slower now than they were four years ago or eight years ago.
It makes no fucking sense. Everybody pick up the goddamn pace.
Everybody's on TikTok and watching cooking videos next to explainers about Reddit AMAs. So everybody's got to pick up the goddamn pace.
We were all actually remarking on this at the Republican convention, which was at home,

watching on TV, it sounded quiet in the hall. Now we were just down on the hall.
It was actually

quite loud down there. People say that you could barely hear Hillary Clinton during her speech

because the applause was so loud, but it just doesn't come through on TV. They have to talk

over the applause. But that is like the number having sat in sessions where there is speech

Thank you. It's what they, I remember they taught Obama this in 04 before ever working for him because he did not know how to ride the applause.
Riding the applause is people start applauding, but you just keep going because, again, your audience is the people at home, not the people in the room. And so I think that was an issue.
There was also, I think the speeches were just too long. And now just for, I know there is an army of outstanding speech writers back there trying mightily to cut those speeches down.
And the other challenge is you try to cut the speeches down. And the speaker, who is an elected official, is like, no, no, no.
I'm going to do what I want to do because I'm an elected official. I know what the people want.
I have to say, if one more person goes out there and asks, are you ready to elect Kamala Harris and to get a round of applause? Fucking cut it. Fucking cut it.
There's too much rhetoric. There's too much bullshit in these speeches.
Nobody can pay attention to this shit. Nobody cares.
So we're recording this Monday night. I guarantee that the Tuesday night speeches are going to be a lot tighter.
And then Wednesday and then definitely Thursday because you cannot push Kamala Harris. If you think bumping James Taylor is bad.
It'll be like that animal house when a guy smashes the guitar against the wall. Yes, they should cut down the speeches, but also people should go faster.
Like, AOC gave an awesome speech. Like, they were awesome speech.
Steve Kerr? Kerr. I know how I would pronounce it.
It's the third time. We've corrected you.
It's spelled with an E. It's phonetic to me.
But, like, they gave really great speeches. They really moved.
AOC was awesome. She was speaking over incredible applause.
She was passionate. Content aside, like, I thought it was a speech content, but just as an effective speaker and communicator,

I thought she was maybe the best of the night. She rode the applause.

She was passionate.

She was direct.

She engaged with a crowd, but she was always moving.

And more people need to emulate that because, by the way,

you'll be able to make a longer and stronger argument

if you just keep moving through these speeches.

The idea of a speech with a beginning, middle, and end

that proceeds sequentially instead of just in a random array of various lines.

I know.

So obviously, a ton of love for Joe Biden in the hall.

Of course, there's a whole subtext here that he appeared in front of a party that, as he thinks and has said, has forced him out of the race.

An idea that Nancy Pelosi didn't exactly dispel when she spoke to jake tapper today uh let's listen it does seem like there's some residual bad blood or resentment and i'm wondering if you've spoken to him and and and what your response is to that sometimes you just have to take a punch for the children i love it i cannot believe you can deliver that line with this. But sometimes you have to take a punch for the children.
She said it on multiple occasions now. I know.
It's like a line she's using. Is the implication that someone's going to punch the kid? No, no, no.
You take a punch or you can help the children. Yeah, she's fighting.
We're all fighting for the children. And so if you want to punch her for that, that's okay.
The visuals. No, I know.
You're sticking to the chin out there. That's's why i'm laughing but uh no i look so how much of a killer is nancy pelosi nancy pelosi

i've said it before i'll say it again she's uh what would happen if a prada bag with a gun in

it became a person and i fucking love it i i've always i you know i used to end every episode of

love or leave it by thanking nancy pelosi and people said i was a neolib fucking chill and now

everybody's back on board and i just want to say welcome the dean phillips of nancy yeah

I'm sorry. episode of love or leave it by thanking nancy pelosi and people said i was a neolib fucking chill and now everybody's back on board and i just want to say welcome the dean phillips of nancy yeah i am dean phillips and nancy pelosi that's that's that's that's a sentence that makes sense to anybody whose brain isn't fucking broken the other main speaker tonight was your old boss hillary clinton you bet uh who brought back a lot ofett's favorite lines.
She also situated Kamala Harris' run alongside her own. Let's listen.
He's mocking her name and her laugh. Sounds familiar.
But we have him on the run now. Lovett, I'm throwing to you.
So that was my favorite moment of the speech. Listen, I've had a drink.
I was feeling very wistful watching Hillary Clinton speak because she made the speech about stuff. She made the speech about breaking the glass ceiling.
And again, you're thinking, what is the most effective argument that Hillary Clinton could make? Would it be as focused on history as much as the future? I don't, I don't know. I actually genuinely don't know.
I thought it was clearly very authentic to her that this is what she wanted to say. But I also just found myself feeling like, like there was moments in the speech where she was saying some version of like, I can see it happening now.
Like this, something is in America. We're really going to do it.
And her voice, there was one point where it like didn't crack exactly, but there was real emotion carrying through that. Like, she genuinely believes like this is a speech she is giving at the convention before we finally elect the first woman president of the United States.
And don't jinx it. But so I had two feelings.
But that was my feeling. No, no, no.
It was like, like, like, you know, we've got Trump on the run. Like it makes me really nervous.
Like you turn right after that. Like, but no matter what the polls say, we got to work hard.
So like, which I really appreciate it. But I was like, turn around, throw salt over your shoulder.
What are we doing here? Um, but like it was, it was personal for her. And like, I think similar to Joe Biden, like this is the speech she wanted to give as a person who beat Donald Trump in the popular vote.
And but for James Comey would have been president. I just believe that.
So, yeah, again, another speech where I feel like it was more about the personal argument that the person wanted to make. But who the fuck am I to say don't make that argument? I mean, we also think about this always through the prison, the persuadable voter who might be watching, but there's also just an element of Democrats love Hillary Clinton.
They love Joe Biden. Let him give their speeches.
Yeah. And there is this element when you talk to people in the, over the last month, since Kamala Harris has taken off where people are, they're so excited and they're, then all of a sudden they're just like, but what about Hillary? Right.
Cause they're, that is the, the subtext, the the subtext of everything and so she addressed that tonight and her at least saying that this time is different for these reasons or it can be different if we do the following things and believe it can be different believe it can be different that she believes it's different is me that's not how you're getting someone who's choosing between trump and there's not a voter who's choosing between trump and harris right now who is just like one Hillary Clinton speech away from moving into the Harris column. But I think it's, you're also just citing anxious volunteers, right? Yeah.
You're just,

you're talking, you're preaching to the choir and not so much of the convention about preaching to

the choir and that's okay too. Yeah.
All right. Let's talk quickly about the two other speeches

that really grabbed people's attention. We, we mentioned AOCs already and also Steve Kerr,

coach of the Golden State Warriors and the men's national team. And a longtime Bulls player speaking in the United Center in Chicago.
Also true. This was the ultimate home game for Steve Kerr.
Right. And here's a sampling.
Ever since I got elected, Republicans have attacked me by saying that I should go back to bartending. But let me tell you, I'm happy to any day of the week because there is nothing wrong with working for a living.
I, for one, am tired of hearing about how a two-bit union buster thinks of himself as more of a patriot

than the woman who fights every single day to lift working people out from under the boots to breed

traveling on our way of life. Coach to coach, that guy's awesome.

Although, I have to say Coach Wall's way too much reliance on the Blitz in 99 against Mankato East

Thank you. awesome.
Although I have to say, Coach Wall's way too much reliance on the Blitz in 99 against Mankato East. You had a strong defensive line.
I would have played more press coverage with your corners and then dropped the safeties into a Tampa too. Sorry.
I wanted you to know how I feel every day of the NBA season. After the results are tallied that night, we can, in the words of the great Steph Curry, we can tell Donald Trump, night, night.
Do you know how good a sports joke has to be for it to fucking kill with me? I just, our audience might not be sports junkies. Steve Kerr making a joke about how specific the criticism is of professional coaches after literally every game is very, very funny.
And he'll play extremely well with a big swath of players. I mean, and the Steph Curry night-night thing.
Which just happens. More people may know it because it happened at the end of the Olympics.
Right. Explain it.
Explain it. Is that when Steph Curry makes a three-pointer that basically is the final dagger that puts the game away, he does night-night like that.
And he did it after making the most insane. That's not good sportsmanship.
I don't like that. He did it to the country of France.
He did it to France. Okay, then it's cool.
It was very cool. Yeah, I love that.
I was going to say, I thought it was, there's a lot of Donald Trump hits tonight, obviously. And I think in some speeches, they can get a little like, we get it.
We're going back to something Trump said three years ago, and we're rehashing the same thing. And I think that mocking Trump or a light touch on Trump, I think the night-night thing was the right tone to go after Trump.
I think in a different way AOC's the two-bit union buster who acts like and it's interesting that she's you know the whole speech was about like economic populism right but she didn't say he thinks he's a populist he doesn't think he's a working people because he thinks he's a patriot and more patriotic than the woman who fights people every day and the fact that she worked in and she can sort of combined patriotism as like lifting people up who are working people in this country, I thought was really smart. There is, first of all, I just, AOC is one of the greatest politicians any of us will ever see.
The evolution of how she has like her rhetoric during this speech, the fact that she was somebody that like really defended Biden, which I think gives her a lot of credibility, not just from the left, but in the broader party. That speech, there are people on the right that just identify her with the sort of DSA, the leftism that they view as incredibly unpopular.
But man, has she found a way to speak? I don don't want to get her in trouble by the neolib PSA guy saying that she didn't sound like a DSA member, but she did not.

She's a political celebrity, right?

So she gets treated that way by the left for better and for worse by Republicans.

But you almost forget about her bio, which was she was just a normal person like six years ago. And whenever I hear her talk about who she was so recently, I remember it takes me back to 2007 and driving around Iowa with Michelle Obama and her being like, you know what? Me and Barack, we paid off our student loans a couple of years ago and we still live in a condominium.
We're able to be normal in rooms like this because it wasn't that long ago that we were literally just like you. Yeah.
You know what I mean? We were normal not that long ago. And this is, and Tommy will know this, but we used to call Michelle Obama the closer because they would put her in a room with undecided Iowa caucus goers and she would close the deal.
And one of the things she would say is there are a lot of people who are like, we love Obama. I think he's amazing, but is he's not ready yet.
Or I want to vote for this person now.

And she would say four years from now is not going to be the same. Because it's going to be four years further removed from being normal, from paying our student loans, from paying our mortgage and all of that.
And AOC has it. And the way she gave that speech, and to redefine patriotism as economic populism.
I mean, it is a, we could look back at that moment just as a very memorable moment in democratic messaging, as something new that has not happened before. I think it also lays the groundwork.
Kamala Harris could do the same thing. In fact, she has been doing something very similar, which is her message, if you listen to Kamala Harris' stump speech, and I'm sure we'll hear this Thursday night as well, does combine a lot of economic populism with patriotism, and she sort of wraps it together.
And I think that that is maybe the most potent message that a Democrat can deliver. And also, I'm glad that she highlighted that the stupidest critique Republicans could make of AOC is that she used to be a bartender.
That does not land with any voters. I saw people even falling for the trap.
I saw some right-wingers being like, then I'll have a whiskey soda and make it snappy. People being super fucking sexist and gross about it.
There's something about the transition from Biden to Kamala and this moment of enthusiasm, like reclaiming the word freedom and reclaiming patriotism. I think we're something a lot of people talked about, like, can we do it? Should we do it? How do we do it? And then this sort of hinge point, let's say like, we're just fucking doing it.
Yeah. We're taking these, we're taking these, these symbols back.
We're taking this word back. And I, I love it.
From God's lips, Dan's message box. Yeah.
Yeah. Message box was crucial in this, and we've always said that.
Many people are saying that. Message box was the Dean Phillips of the patriotism.
And the freedom message, frankly. I was doing that since 2021.
Look, we've always said that Dan Pfeiffer is the Dean Phillips of Substack. We've been awake too long.
The other thing I'd just say is, Tim Walls, Steve Kerr, there is something about coaches and public speaking. And you can just see, we saw this with veterans in 2006, where the DACCC is going to be out recruiting football coaches going forward.
Coaches and bartenders. Steve Kerr should run for office.
I mean, he's incredibly talented. He's a great speaker.
He's a great leader. He's a great motivator.
As longtime friends of the pod know, back in 2017, he was on Pots of America.

That's right.

Yeah, you went up there.

You went up court side.

Elijah and I went to Warrior's Practice, and we interviewed Steve Kerr,

and we asked him if he would run for office.

And he said, definitely not.

Okay.

Well.

Yeah, but that's what you say.

But you know where Steve Kerr is from?

Arizona.

Oh, come on, Steve.

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All right. So while Democrats were legitimately thrilled about their party and bursting with more energy than we've seen in years.
Donald Trump was in York, Pennsylvania with a pretty dry message at a manufacturing plant. You know, they had a few surprises off script a couple times.
According to the reporting, his advisors really, really wanted him to stick to the script. And he did he got a lot of plaudits for doing some of the economic talking points off the prompt yeah he makes it through a speech without saying the c word he gets a fucking pat on the back it's unbelievable but then he also did uh he also did a lot of this you know he said we're weird that jd and i are weird i think we're extremely normal people with like you exactly like he's weird while.
While Biden and Harris have been impoverishing our country, they have been getting rich, very rich at your expense. According to a 292-page report from the House Oversight Judiciary and Ways and Means Committees in Congress.
So sad because he's going to be making his speech tonight. And they don't call him Crooked Joe for no reason.
They said President Biden engaged in impeachable conduct. I would have made billions of dollars in this job if I wanted to play that game the way they played it, but instead I took the job very seriously and very importantly.
I can't believe that that was covered as partially normal. Such a whiner.
He's reading off the prompter though. That's in the prompter.
That's what I'm saying. And he's talking about a House Republican bullshit report and just making up what's in it that joe biden made money he did not that kamala harris made money of the job he did not that donald trump was just uh you know on the up and up when he was president i mean it was crazy there's been some discourse about whether democrats need to move on from the weird framing about Republicans, in particular J.D.
Vance and Donald Trump.

And I agree on some level that voters are going to want more.

It was a great way to define J.D. Vance in the near term, but voters are going to want to hear more about what we're going to do for their lives.

But it is so deeply in Donald Trump's head after just a couple of weeks of this.

It clearly makes him so mad. He's mad we're calling him weird.
He's mad that J.D. Vance is weird.
He's probably getting all the memes from his buddies saying, why did you pick this guy? It's got him off his game. He does that every day.
Authoritarians hate being mocked. And weird is also a type of mockery.
And Donald Trump doesn't like getting made fun of. He doesn't like being mocked.
And the fact that the Harris-Walls campaign, the way they are treating him, even though we all believe he is an existential threat to democracy, that is not necessarily the rhetoric we're hearing. What we're hearing is he is a like washed up entertainer who picked a fucking weirdo for his VP and look at them run around the country acting like idiots.
I think the most effective part of what Walls has said, like put the word weird aside, the part where he comes back to this over and over again, which is some version of, could you imagine Donald Trump or JD Vance doing normal things, making a McFlurry, whatever it might be, Laughing, smiling. Laughing, smiling.
It's such a smart, like Tim Walsh just screams fucking normal. Just like, I'm a normal dad.
You know, there was a moment tonight where his two kids were doing the rabbit ears behind him. And you just know, like, you can't teach it.
You can't pretend. You can't fake it.
Like, he is that guy. Kam also school's normal and and like that's why throughout this was like you know she grew up middle class she worked at mcdonald's like these are just two normal people i think in part you know she escaped some of the misogyny that hit hillary clinton in part because this was kind of thrust upon her right so she retained some of her kind of normalcy and donald trump like the otherness of him the stress of him, like kind of really is like a direct hit on the populism he's trying to claim.
It's, it like really is like an effective way to like blunt, um, the power that I think he had and he just doesn't know what to do with it. Can I still disagree here? Yeah.
I, I am very resistant to strategies that are about triggering Trump to do something because you've got to get a persuadable voter's attention twice. You've got to get them for you.
You basically have to get them to pay attention to what you're saying and you've got to get them to understand what Trump is responding to. And that's just too much context.
I fundamentally agree that the beauty of the strategy to the extent the sort of underlying weirdness is mockery. And that is the thing that I think Harris has done,

and Walls obviously has done incredibly well,

is when Trump attacks them, they smile and laugh.

They don't just get all serious and stentorian.

I've been really thinking over the last couple of weeks,

particularly as we've been here today, what is different?

The difference is that Kamala Harris has made politics about something other than Donald Trump. Yeah.
She parries him, right? Brush him off. People are excited.
He questioned her racial identity and said she lied about being black. And her response was to smile, kind of laugh, dismiss it right away.
And that is the way you do this. It's the way Obama would do it.
And instead of just like going to this, you could just see a different, an alternative world where you give a full speech about what he did, right? And everyone responds to what he did. Which, by the way, is what Hillary Clinton did a lot in 2016.
Yeah, and Biden did in 2020. And Biden did as well.
The strategy has worked in the past, right? We won in 2020, we won in 2022, we won in 2018. There is an element to it, but just, I think that feeling has grown so tired where democratic messaging is the mere image of Trump and to be something totally different now.
It's also an understandably tempting strategy. Yeah, it is a great way to get engagement.
Those of us who are Democrats and liberals and pay close attention to politics, we genuinely believe that Donald Trump poses a threat and is dangerous, right? And so when he says something very offensive or something that seems quite threatening, we want to respond by, you know, going to the barricades and doing that kind of stuff. But for most people in the country who do not like Donald Trump,

which most people don't, but,

you know,

are sort of maybe open to voting for him or open to just not voting at all.

Holding him up as a subject of mockery as a clown is an,

is an easier way in to persuade them that,

yeah,

he's not the guy for you.

The way you beat a wannabe strongman is to expose them as weak,

not to herald and,

and worry about their strength.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

Thank you. The way you beat a wannabe strongman is to expose them as weak, not to herald and worry about their strength.
Right. Right.
Yeah. And I think it's interesting that he has not been able to settle on a message about Kamala Harris that is both effective and one that he feels comfortable owning and delivering.
He can't even pick a nickname. He can't even pick a nickname.
You know, he was doing the like, the like okay well she was vice president for the last four years so she's talking about lowering inflation and cutting costs but like why hasn't she done that for the last four years you know it was like the first time when he said something like okay i could see that being a message that of all the messages about her could could resonate right because you know joe biden is an unpopular president not just because of his age but people are still upset about high prices and everything. But he can't for some reason, he can't stay on that message.
The it's what, you know, Trump's strength is not that he's some great, you know, like nickname or some like sort of idiot savant about that. It's that he throws his opponents off their game.
And all of this is a reminder that Kamala Harris is not being thrown off her game by Donald Trump, and that really shakes him. And then it also gets at this sort of, look, we know what the Republican vices are.
They are stoking fear and hatred and bigotry, appealing to cruelty and all the rest. Democrats, we have our vices too and it's a piousness, a negativity, a kind of like self-righteousness and Trump invites that because it's fucking deserved.
It's fucking deserved. But the way Tim Walz is, the way Kamala Harris is, they're just rejecting that as a kind of politics.
The joy is both an antidote to Trump, but also an antidote to Democratic vices. Yeah.
All right. Just after the break, J.B.
Pritzker sits down with Tommy and Dan for a very fun interview. Very fun.
Where I guess you guys had beer. Yeah, you did.
That's awesome. Sorry, you guys skipped it.
But before we do that, a lot of talk here at the convention about what's going to happen in the swing states this fall. You know what's going to be happening in the swing states this fall? What's going to be happening, John? Tell us, John.
Two things. Two things? First, Pod Save America is going back on tour.
Where are we going? Join us in Phoenix on September 7th, Ann Arbor on October 5th, and Philadelphia on October 6th. Sandwich Town.
You can get your tickets at crooked.com slash events. The other thing that's going to be happening in the swing states, all of us are going to be out there volunteering, calling, door knocking, doing everything we can to persuade all those voters who are still on the fence.
And if you want to be as informed as possible about where those voters are, may I suggest this season of the wilderness? I don't even know that. It's full of incredible insights.
Not from me. From all the very smart people I talk to.
Hey, hey, hey. Come on, John.
Hey. Final episode, talk to David Plouffe, senior advisor, Harris Wall's campaign.
Also, Lynn Vavrick, my favorite political scientist. Lynn Vavrick, excellent.
The episode before that, talk to Anant Shankar-Osorio and Michael Podhorzer about messaging. Great final two episodes.
And now I'm done with the wilderness. Hey, congrats.
You know what? If this election goes right, are we just done? Is there no more season? We're not out of the wilderness. We're just the season.
Fingers crossed. Look, this is what this election's side.
Season finale or series finale. That's right.

That's what the choice is in this election.

All right.

When we come back, Governor J card and money app for families. With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.
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Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com slash podcast. We cannot keep pretending that Donald Trump is an outlier when everyone else seems to be out there with him.
But instead of feeling paralyzed, our job now is to pull what we've got and see what we can make happen. Here at Assembly Required, we will continue to face each executive order, legislative policy, and news cycle, no matter how terrifying or absurd, by asking, what can we do to learn more about what's happening? What can we do to solve problems, however small? And how can we find the kind of hope that can sustain our work in difficult times? Listen to new episodes of Assembly Required every Thursday on Amazon Music.
We are here in Chicago on the first day of the Democratic Convention. And joining us now is Illinois Governor J.B.
Pritzker. Governor Pritzker, welcome to Pod Save America.
Thank you. Great to see you guys.
Okay. I know you have been planning this convention for a long time now.
You've spearheaded getting it here in Chicago. You've planned it.
And then one month ago, something no one could have foreseen, we had a switch of candidate. How has that affected the planning? What did you guys have to do to account for that? Well, let me start by complimenting all the people who put this together because Mignon Moore, for example, Alex Hornbrook from the DNC, and then of course our host committee.
So they deserve a lot of credit and they were going to put a great convention on either way. But I think what you're asking about is, you know, the maybe two months ago, it was

questionable. People would call me up and say, I don't know if I want to come.
I'm not sure. Should we throw a party? I don't really think so.
I mean, there were a lot of people like that, I hate to say. And I have to say in the last 20 days, there's been a lot of change.
People literally calling me up like, how do I get a credential? You know, my seven relatives want to come with me. Everybody's throwing a party now.
So, I mean, just to give you an idea, I mean, the electricity, the enthusiasm is high, and you can feel it in this building, and we haven't even gaveled in yet. Yeah, you can feel it on the street for sure, walking around today.
Yeah, people are excited. The hotel's excited.
Also, we should say thank you very much for bringing us some J beers. Yes.
Some local beers. So Dan and I are boozing during this interview.

Yeah, as we should.

It's great.

Well, they're specialty beers.

Just say, so save the can at the end because, you know, it was my staff that put the label together, J beer.

But it's actually made by, well, we've got an IPA made by Alter Brewing here in Chicago and a lager made by Sketchbook.

I mean, these are actually really good beers.

Yeah.

So enjoy it and keep it as a souvenir. I would just note that Tommy and my beers are open.
The governor's is closed. He's got a lot to do today.
He's a busy guy. I'll crack it around 630.
That's right. We're podcasters, so we got some free time.
So there's a lot of history for the Democratic Party in Chicago and for the Democratic Convention in particular. There were some really awful images from the DNC that have haunted the party for years.
And a lot of Democrats have been worried about history repeating itself this year. You're talking about the Macarena.
You're the governor of Illinois. You came up to my joke.
Can you pledge that no one will be doing the Macarena tonight or ever? Well, I was at that convention, so I actually did the Macarena at that convention. And I have done one recreation for somebody, so no, I cannot promise that.
That has already happened. Do you feel like it's fundamentally dishonest to invite thousands of people to Chicago in August and not have them experience a lake effect winter snowstorm? What do you mean? It is 74 degrees like this all year round.
It's perfect all the time. I don't know what you, have you not been to chicago before i guess i must have blacked out that the great part about working on campaigns in illinois as we were talking before is they're over in november so you get to you know well i mean we were here for a couple winters and i would say we appreciated working in a building that had was connected to all the other buildings with an underpass yeah so we you could get to work in the morning at night, and never go outside.
Look, you don't appreciate a spring and a summer unless you've gone through a Chicago winter. That's true.
And Chicago summers are spectacular. I'm not exaggerating when I say that.
I am a little biased, but honestly, these are some great summers. But yeah, January, February, my brother who lives in LA always calls me up and says, you know, how's the weather? And I always remind him that I love everything about L.A.
except the people. Don't hit on an L.A.-based company.
My brother, my brother. So jokes aside, there are a lot of protesters in this city.
Some of them are pro-Trump. A lot of them are concerned about the war in Gaza.
How do you balance their constitutional right to protest with the need to keep the city running, to keep this function going? Tell us about how you plan for that and allow those voices to be heard. Well, we started out with, of course, the principle that people are allowed to protest.
And I've been to almost every democratic convention since I was able to vote. So that's an awful long time.
And there have been protests at every single one of them. And so it's our job to protect the protesters and their right to protest.
What we aren't going to protect, of course, is the troublemakers, the people who are trying to cause mayhem or violence. Right.
And we haven't seen any of that. And I don't expect that we'll see any of that.
I do think we're going to have vigorous protests. They're loud.
Sometimes some guys walk around with a loudspeaker just hooked to themselves around their neck. Just love it.
Yes. Exactly.
And our goal is protect them, but it's also the residents of Chicago and the 50,000 people that are coming to visit, making sure they have a great time while they're here, that they don't have any problems. And I have to say that the superintendent of police here in Chicago, a very experienced guy.
He's well-liked by the department and everybody in the department. And so far, the planning here has been amazing, right? Every level of law enforcement is engaged.
Secret Service, FBI, ATF, and then, of course, the Cook County Sheriff's Office, the Chicago Police Department itself, Illinois State Police, and then we've got surrounding police from surrounding states as well as surrounding communities in Illinois. So there's a lot of law enforcement.
There's also, this is a national security event, so people who have this, you know, thing in mind about 1968, it was a whole different ballgame back then, right? It wasn't, you know, we didn't live in a world where there was this kind of, you know, the terrorism that you sometimes see. And so there's a lot of protective engagement, protective equipment, people keeping things orderly on the ground.
And then, you know, our job is to make sure we got a great convention for people who come. And as you've seen already, it's a beautiful place, United Center, and it's been put together so that I think everybody watching at home is going to enjoy the show.
You sort of built a reputation as a very direct, pugnacious messenger for the Democratic Party, sort of willing to call Trump and MAGA Republicans out on their BS. It used to be in the party that we were we sort of when they went low, we went high.
What's your take on the tone so far you've heard from the Harris Walls campaign? I thought I was going high. High by non-Chicago standards.
Yeah. Okay.
All right. Well, you know, I, I, look, the fact is that we live in a, in a world where the Republicans apparently know no, you know, there's, that there is no nadir to the low that they'll take.

And so it's unfortunate, but we've got to make sure that people understand how dangerous the guy on the other side is to democracy.

And the danger that he poses to working class families across the United States.

I mean, I don't think anybody actually believes that he's in this for them.

He's in this for himself.

He's in this for Elon Musk.

I'm going to go to the United States. I mean, I don't think anybody actually believes that he's in this for them.
He's in this for himself. He's in this for Elon Musk.
He's in this for the wealthiest people in America. And we just have to keep reminding people of that.
And I've, you know, yes, when I ran for governor in 2017, 2018, every speech I gave, I'm not exaggerating, And remember, he had just taken office. So every speech I gave started with everything we care about is under siege by a racist, misogynist, homophobic, xenophobic.
And I wasn't predicting anything. He'd already shown all of that.
I talked about him as somebody who is genuinely just a narcissist. And so I haven't stopped because he's still a narcissist.
He's not changing. Apparently, even the threat to his own life that occurred hasn't changed him.
I think we all had hoped maybe he might change. But no.
So this is Donald Trump, and we all have to call it out and make sure that we're saying it over and over. We have to remind people, because here's what happens.
The media, when you've got a week where Donald Trump acts normal, and I can't remember a full week of that. Yeah, it's like a long weekend.
Monday and half a Tuesday. Barely that.
Maybe a couple hours in the middle of the night when he's sleeping. But the media forgets the media forgets or they say, oh, look how normal he is, you know.
But we can't forget. I mean, this is a guy who spent his entire career lining his own pockets and, frankly, defrauding a lot of other people.
Now he's been convicted of it 34 times. So I think we just have to keep reminding everybody.
And have I ever thought this way before in my life? No. Before 2015, I never thought we'd be in a political system where we're literally name calling, right? I mean, on the other side, he's calling people names, making things up like it's eighth grade or the fifth grade, you know, recess.
And so, look, I hate that politics have turned into this. I grew up in an environment, you know, my parents were Democrats through and through, but we knew Republicans, we had Republican relatives.
I mean, Bob Dole, you know, Howard Baker, Jack Kemp, right? That all seems tame. You know, George W.
Bush, as wrong as he was about the Iraq War. I mean, a tame, you know, somebody who's like a patriot, but just disagrees with us.
We live in a whole other world now. We have a lot of work to do.
What do you make, speaking of name calling, what do you make of the new Democratic message calling J.D. Vance, MAG Republicans weird? I mean, I think it's a good summation of a lot of stuff that we've heard about them and a way for people to kind of put it all together.
And, you know, and I do think there's some weird things that I've heard about both of the candidates, of course, over time. But it's not something, it's not a campaign theme that we can carry through for the next 79 days until election.
I just think it's a good way for everybody to sort of stop and think, like, maybe not those guys. This is not normal.
Kind of pause, put them on the couch for a minute, evaluate them. Maybe a little more catharsis than constructive.
Yeah, that's fair. It feels good.
Yeah, I mean, it's a short-lived minute, but yeah. Republicans love to attack Chicago.
I mean, we experienced this when we were working for Obama. They talk about crime.
They talk about the Democratic Party stealing both for Kennedy in 60. We were talking earlier about how four of the last 10 Illinois governors wound up in the pokey.
Congratulations for not. Yeah, congratulations.
Yeah, really appreciate you guys giving me a microphone that has crooked on it here in Chicago. So, yeah.
In hindsight, that was a mistake. Rod Bluglavich's hair, also a mistake.
Chicago, Illinois is being showcased this week. What do you want people to take away about this city, this state that they might not know or that might not kind of be the caricature they see on Fox News? Well, I hope the first and most noticeable thing is it's a beautiful city, right? We're on a lakefront.
We've got beaches here. You know, some of the best blues you can find anywhere in the world.
We have great Chicago pizza and hot dogs. And, of course, you know, the bear has shown everybody we can do Italian beef better than anybody.
So there's a lot to be said just for, like, it's a great city to come visit and certainly to live in. And I think the other thing that I'd like people to know is that, you know, one of the reasons we got chosen for this convention is because we've carried out the basic values of the Democratic Party, which are the basic values of everyday Americans.
Right here in Illinois, we have protected reproductive rights here and workers' rights, which we put into our constitution, and voting rights and civil rights. We've stood up for our LGBTQ community.
And then guess what? We've created jobs. And I want to give Joe Biden a lot of credit because a lot of jobs have come back from overseas as a result of some of his policies.
And here in Illinois, we're winning a lot of those companies coming here. And also union jobs, right? And people getting a good wage for a good day's work.
So those are all things that Democrats stand for. The Republicans do not.
They are against every single one of the things I just said. And so here, if you stand on top of the United Center, where we're sitting right now, you literally could point to seven things that happened because Democrats made them happen.
I'm talking about improving our economy, building our roads and bridges, right? Broadband, just, I mean, lifting up communities that have been left out and left behind. Those are all things that are fundamental principles of the Democratic Party that here in Chicago and in Illinois, we have carried out.

You mentioned the Bear. I want to talk about the Bears, Chicago Bears.
You got a great new quarterback. I think you're 3-0 in preseason.
Are you ready to predict a Super Bowl victory? A hundred percent. This year? In your lifetime? What are we talking about? I didn't say when.
Just going to happen at some point? It's going to happen, yeah. I mean, remember, I'm also a Cubs fan, so we waited 108 years for that,

and it finally came. I don't think we have to wait that long for the Bears, I might add, but it has been a little while since we were in a Super Bowl.
Now, the White Sox are 30 wins, 95 losses. Do you take responsibility for that, too, or is this you pushing them off to somebody else? Or as a Bears fan, are you okay with it? We're all the politics here.
I take responsibility for that too or is this you pushing them off to somebody as a Bears fan are you okay with it the politics here I take responsibility for the teams that every Illinoisan loves um and I'm talking about uh even Cardinals fans that's hard to do for a Cubs fan but but uh meanwhile I'm a Cubs fan uh through and through but I I want the White Sox to do well because we've had a lot of years where Cubs weren't doing well, White Sox were, and so we need, you know, we want parity at least or maybe Cubs doing a little bit better. But, you know, I'm a Sox fan, and we want to make sure they do well, and, you know, people who live on the south side love the Sox.
You're shaking your head like you can't imagine wanting the Sox to do well. Well, Obama was a White Sox fan.
Yeah, he's a White Sox fan. In 2005, Jon Favreau and I were sitting in his Senate office, and you guys swept us, and he found a broom, came over to our desk, and started sweeping off our desk just to talk shit directly to his two lowly little employees.
We swept the Red Sox. Us is the Red Sox in this? The Red Sox were swept by the Chicago White Sox, and Barack Obama decided to rub our faces in it.
Yeah. Well, I would do that too if it had been the Cubs.
As you should. And also the Red Sox.
Come on, guys. Greatest franchise in history.
Everyone knows that. I'm glad you brought up the bear, because Chicago is a great food city.
We had famous Chicagoan David Axelrod on this podcast last week. Yes.
And Jon Favreau, our co-host, asked him for some restaurant recommendations for people here visiting Chicago. And Axelrod turned into some sort of politician and refused to name a single restaurant.
Wishy-washy garbage. Yeah, he thought he wouldn't offend anyone.
I don't know what happened to him. What advice can you have a little more political courage than Axelrod and give people some good advice on where to eat in this great city over the next several days here? Well, should I start with I love all the restaurants? As evidenced by my size, I might add.
We have some great restaurants and it is a foodie town, right? We got a lot of James Beard Award winners and frankly, you know, some of the best food you can find in the whole world. Wiener Circle.
Wiener Circle, yes. I love the way you think.
So there are a lot of places to recommend. I must say that if you're a steak eater, which we get a lot of great steak joints in town, I'll name a couple, but I'm not going to get them all.
Chicago Cut. Gibson's is a classic.
I think everybody who's visited here as a tourist might have at least stopped there once. And then we've got 77 neighborhoods of Chicago.
So you can imagine we've got a cultural delight anywhere you go in the city of I, by the way, I took some friends out and we did a steak crawl.

Okay.

That's aggressive.

It's aggressive anymore.

I will say there was, there was a lot of alcohol involved also, but, uh, but we did a steak

crawl and no, we did not each have a steak at each of the five restaurants that we went

to, but we got one steak at each place.

They thought we were crazy.

We walked in the door and say, could you, us a New York strip, medium rare, and cut

it into this number of pieces.

Did you mix different cut at every restaurant?

No. No.
It's exactly

the same. Oh, New York strip at every place.

And we had a scorecard.

Yeah. And so I'm not going to tell you

which one won because that really would be taking

sides. But Axe is not wrong

to have difficulty naming

one restaurant for your couple. In Axe's defense, he did imply that Manny's Deli is the one place you should go.
Certainly if you're in politics, I got to say, every one of my election victories has been preceded by a visit to Manny's. That's good.
It's a good tradition. When Mike Ditka briefly pretended he was going to run against Barack Obama in 2004,

he would only do TV interviews from his restaurant, which I believe is called Ditka's,

in the kind of Gold Coast area, which I thought was a savvy marketing move. I don't think so.

No.

I think it went bankrupt.

But then he backed Trump, I think.

He did.

Boy, he did it.

That sort of goes hand-in-hand, Trump.

You run the hard way.

Bankruptcy.

There you go.

That's right.

Well, Governor, thank you so much for being here.

Yeah.

Great to see you guys. Good luck this week.
Thank you. You too.
That's our show for tonight. Almost.
Friends of the Pod subscribers get an exclusive bonus segment. We're going to be doing these subscription segments every night.
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Bye, everyone. Bye.
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