Trump Revives Birtherism

Speaker 1 What's poppin' listeners?

Speaker 2 I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time.

Speaker 2 Want to know about the fake heirs? We got them. What about a career con man? We've got them too.
Guys that will whine and dine you and then steal all your coins.

Speaker 2 Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Beyer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more.

Speaker 2 Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 3 Year after year, Harry and David makes my family's holiday season feel special with treats handcrafted in Medford, Oregon.

Speaker 3 Harry and David still hand picks and packs every Royal Riviera pear, makes their iconic Moose Munch popcorn using the original recipe, and ties each bow by hand on their Tower of Treats gifts.

Speaker 3 And they all taste as good as everyone remembers. Make your own holiday magic and and get 20% off site-wide at Harryandavid.com, promo code PAIR20.
That's HarryandDavid.com, code PAIRE20.

Speaker 1 Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm John Favreau.
I'm Dan Pfeiffer. On today's show, with Kamal Harris' VP announcement imminent, we'll read the tea leaves and talk through the shortlist.

Speaker 1 We'll also talk about how, as we suspected, Trump already seems to be regretting his VP pick, and reports of Project 2025's demise may be greatly exaggerated.

Speaker 1 But first, the followout continues from one of the

Speaker 1 worst, most deranged interviews Donald Trump has ever given, which is saying a lot. His live appearance on Wednesday at the National Association of Black Journalists Convention.

Speaker 1 So Lovett and Stacey Abrams reacted in real time on the Wednesday pod, but there have been some developments since then that have kept this story going.

Speaker 1 Namely, the fact that Trump and his campaign have decided to double down on his accusation that Kamala Harris isn't really black.

Speaker 1 And the vice president's response at an event that evening in Houston. Let's listen first as a refresher to Trump's comments, and then you'll hear what the VP said in response.

Speaker 4 Some of your own supporters, including Republicans on Capitol Hill, have labeled Vice President Kamala Harris, who was the first black and Asian American woman to serve as vice president and be on a major party ticket, as a DEI hire.

Speaker 4 Is that acceptable language to you?

Speaker 6 How do you define DEI? Go ahead.

Speaker 4 How do you define it? Diversity, equity, and inclusion. Okay, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 6 Is that what your definition gives you?

Speaker 4 That is a question.

Speaker 6 Give me a definition then. Would you give me a definition? Yeah,

Speaker 6 give me a definition.

Speaker 4 Sir, I'm asking you a question.

Speaker 6 Define it for me if you want.

Speaker 4 I just defined it, sir.

Speaker 6 She was always of Indian heritage, and she was only promoting Indian heritage.

Speaker 6 I didn't know she was black until a number of years ago when she happened to turn black, and now she wants to be known as black. So I don't know, is she Indian or is she black?

Speaker 7 Donald Trump spoke at the annual meeting of the National Association of Black Journalists.

Speaker 7 And it was the same old show.

Speaker 7 The divisiveness and the disrespect.

Speaker 7 And let me just say,

Speaker 7 the American people deserve better.

Speaker 7 The American people deserve better.

Speaker 1 All right. Let's start with the man who's had a spiritual awakening since his assassination attempt.
What the hell do you think Donald Trump was up to with that response?

Speaker 1 And that whole interview. Like the entire interview, he was just unhinged.
Unhinged. I think I've now listened to this interview several times.
I've listened to me too.

Speaker 1 It's funny. Like last night, I had watched it.
Tommy had it on his computer when it was happening. And so I started, I tuned in because I was so busy.
I didn't even know what was happening.

Speaker 1 And then I went home last night just because I was so stunned. Not like surprising because nothing about Donald Trump is surprising, but just shocking.

Speaker 1 And watched the whole thing again. And it was even worse the second time.

Speaker 1 I was traveling

Speaker 1 back home from a family trip and I was in the airport and I was like following the slacks coming in and the texts and I was like, this seems bad.

Speaker 1 And my friend with my family, my parents are like, how bad is it? I was like, I don't know what's happening, but it seems very bad.

Speaker 1 And the, well, let me just say that in listening to it, the true, the part that's not getting enough attention, because it might be the funniest part in what is

Speaker 1 largely an unfunny and highly offensive interview is when he keeps asking her to define DEI and she keeps like

Speaker 1 exact words. She's like, that is the literal definition.

Speaker 1 But it's obviously he doesn't he doesn't really get he knows that there's a dei attack that the right wing has been using and that it's like it's you know uh it's it's it's racist and you know he can or or it's a it's a wedge issue that they can use he like gets the politics around it but he has no fucking idea what dei is i think he thinks it's a word not an acronym

Speaker 1 which is why he was so confused by her saying it like he thinks it's like i would love to see him try to have to spell it

Speaker 1 i mean let's start with why he was at the national National Association of Black Journalists to begin with. I can sort of see

Speaker 1 the meeting weeks ago, maybe months ago, in the Trump campaign headquarters where they decided to do this, right?

Speaker 1 At the time they're running against Joe Biden, we know from all the interviews that Chris Lasavita and Susie Wiles have done to tell us how smart they think they are, that black men are a huge target for the Trump campaign.

Speaker 1 They go out.

Speaker 1 So in their mind, it's like we can go to the National Association of Black Journalists, talk to all of the black media in one fell swoop, and a Republican president who's been repeatedly called a racist by Democrats, showing up at NABJ would be a grand gesture to show that he's courting their vote, that he is actually, unlike most Republican presidents in the past, he is actively seeking the votes of the black community.

Speaker 1 And they knew, too, that Joe Biden, at least in polling, was having trouble with younger black voters. It was highly unlikely to go do an interview at NABJ.
So he would have the stage to himself. Yep.

Speaker 1 Now, that is one of the things that makes, like that's an idea in theory but if chris loss of daily and susie wells were as smart as they want us to think they are they would have remembered their candidate is a racist asshole who also cannot and will not he doesn't like tough questions and he really doesn't like them from black women and so this even if we had not been in this place where he was clearly reeling from how the racist shifted and all the momentum that kamala harris has and seeing her fill arenaz and the polls tightening and all of that just in any scenario even if he was you know still in his like coronation phase against Joe Biden, he still was going to have to answer these questions in front of with very good journalists asking him tough questions.

Speaker 1 And he was going to melt down there. Maybe not to this degree, but he was definitely going to melt out on that stage.

Speaker 1 One of those things that's a good idea in theory, but theory fails to account for the fact that Donald Trump is the candidate.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and I also think right before he did the interview, he had some crazy post about like, I thought we tried to do this on Zoom and now Kamala Harris is not doing it on, or gets to do it on Zoom.

Speaker 1 And now I have to be there in person.

Speaker 1 I would not be surprised if when the race changed and he knew it was just him and Kamala, and then he was like, oh, now I have to go to the National Association of Black Journalists.

Speaker 1 He was already probably, you know, he probably wanted to do it over Zoom and not actually go there. Then he goes there.

Speaker 1 And then I'm sure because he's Donald Trump and he thinks he's fucking great, he thought that the first question was going to be like, hey, you know, Mr. President, thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 And what's your plan on, you know, and the fact that the first question was so pointed about all of the, you know, you had a dinner with a white supremacist.

Speaker 1 You have, you know, said all these racist things.

Speaker 1 I think that, when you challenge Trump like that, we've seen this with other interviewers too, the few that actually really push and challenge him, that's when he loses his shit.

Speaker 1 It was the, similar to that Brett Baer interview when he went through all the people in Trump's cabinet and team who had turned against him. Right.
And Trump melted down about that too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 So some people are like,

Speaker 1 was it a strategy to say that?

Speaker 1 It's possible. Anything is possible with Donald Trump and his campaign.

Speaker 1 But having watched him for the last eight years, it just seems like when you challenge Donald Trump, when you corner Donald Trump, when he's already upset, he's going to say crazy shit, racist shit, sexist shit.

Speaker 1 It just comes out.

Speaker 1 And like, I don't, so that, now, what happened next, I think, is clearly strategic. Well, but.
In quotes. In quote, right.

Speaker 1 We can debate that. I don't want to ruin your day, but I want you to know it's just been nine years.

Speaker 1 We've been what we've been podcasting about Donald Trump for nine years.

Speaker 1 Yeah, whereas we did something wrong in another life. Well, I guess we've been podcasting about for eight years, but we've been watching Donald Trump for nine years, just to be factually accurate.

Speaker 1 So After it happens, he doubles down, and the campaign doubles down.

Speaker 1 At his rally that night in Harrisburg, the campaign projected an image of a business insider headline that noted how Harris became California's first Indian American senator, which is true.

Speaker 1 Trump also posted a video clip of Kamala cooking Indian food with Mindy Kaling and said, quote, crazy Kamala is saying she's Indian, not black, stone-cold phony.

Speaker 1 She uses everybody, including her racial identity.

Speaker 1 Why does he and the campaign think that this is like a a winner for them? Why are they, what's, what's, what do you think?

Speaker 1 The only thing I can think of on the doubling down is like one of the first principles for Donald Trump and all the people around him is never apologize, never back down, just like lean into any kind of gaffe or controversial statement you make.

Speaker 1 I think there is some of that for sure. It's like what did Lovett used to call them intellectual Zambonis who would go around behind Trump and like clean up the mess.

Speaker 1 I think these are like strategic Zambonis here.

Speaker 1 I think that there is a strategy that is a very tried and true, very misogynistic strategy often used against female candidates and female candidates of color, which is to paint them as

Speaker 1 overly ambitious, do anything for power.

Speaker 1 And so what I think take away the way Donald Trump did this, like his execution of their plan was horrendous and offensive and counterproductive and probably and hurt him in ways that we can talk about.

Speaker 1 I think the campaign's message is they're racing to define Kamala Harris and they want to do this argument where she said she was black when it helped her with in this way.

Speaker 1 She said she was Indian when it helped her in this way as a way to make her seem unprincipled, phony.

Speaker 1 This is, you know, we've seen this strategy run against candidates, especially women candidates all the time from Republicans.

Speaker 1 Trump just did it in a way that was like such an unsubtle sledgehammer that it kind of blew up in his face. Could I just point out why it's so fucking stupid and

Speaker 1 like where it's coming from that's not only in Donald Trump's mind, but like a broader feeling on the right with some of this DEI bullshit.

Speaker 1 It's like, like, first of all, Kamala Harris, her mother came here from India. Her father came here from Jamaica.
She has talked about that for her entire career. She has written about it in her book.

Speaker 1 She's given speeches about it when she became the vice president. All of the stories everywhere said that she was the first black and South Asian woman to be vice president, a lot of firsts.

Speaker 1 There was a whole millions of headlines about that. So the idea that it was hidden or she tries to, she turned black is just nonsense, right? She went to historically

Speaker 1 historically black sorority. Yes.
But they are trying to argue that somehow

Speaker 1 being black or presenting as black is an advantage, is a political advantage in some places because everyone knows that black Americans, you know, they have all this privilege and advantage, right?

Speaker 1 Like historically, right?

Speaker 1 And that sometimes saying that you have Indian heritage gives you some advantage politically, which is just, it's so fucking preposterous, but it's exactly how the right thinks now, which is like, oh, well, if you're white, you know, you're, uh, you have to, you have to work hard and get ahead.

Speaker 1 But if you're black or if you're some other minority, then the way that society is now, and with DEI and everything else, then you get an advantage that other people don't get.

Speaker 1 That's what he's, that's the real racist part of it. And that's what he was really getting at.

Speaker 1 It is a, without using the acronym/slash/word, it's a way, it's a way of making of arguing she is a DEI candidate.

Speaker 1 She could never have succeeded in this way on her own because it is impossible for these Republicans to fathom the idea that a woman or a black woman or Indian woman could best them in all these ways to achieve what she has achieved, to win the election she's won, to advance in the career.

Speaker 1 They can't comprehend that.

Speaker 1 They get to this also because

Speaker 1 they live like Kamala Harris's story,

Speaker 1 the fact that she's black and Indian is also an anathema to their view of America, right?

Speaker 1 Like what Trump is really arguing is that he is a bulwark against changes in this country that mean that white men are going to have less powers. We become a more diverse country.

Speaker 1 And so the idea of Kamala Harris is that as Barack Obama in the same way was something they could not comprehend, they could not wrap their mind around.

Speaker 1 And so they must lash out at it in the most offensive way as possible.

Speaker 1 Like it does, it does not compute in their mind that she could have achieved everything she achieved based on her hard work, her talent, her brains, her grit, all of that.

Speaker 1 Like that does not, that is not in their, the way, in their worldview. It is not possible for them.

Speaker 1 Kamala Harris, who has won more elections than Donald Trump and J.D. Vance combined, who has more political experience in years than Donald Trump and J.D.

Speaker 1 Vance combined, who won the race for attorney general, a close race for attorney general,

Speaker 1 particularly the primary in the largest state in the country, who won a race for U.S.

Speaker 1 Senate in the largest state in the country, the fifth largest economy in the world, and then who went on to run for president and get selected as vice president and then just spent four years working with Joe Biden in the White House.

Speaker 1 That is the DEI candidate that they are denigrating there. Just the other thing, I was on the Bulwark podcast today with Tim Miller and something he pointed out that had not occurred to me.
J.D.

Speaker 1 Vance's kids. I know.
Which I don't even, I didn't even want to mention because it's like they're his kids, but like, oh my God.

Speaker 1 I wouldn't even want to bring him up either, but he got asked about it and just basically stuck with Trump instead of pushing back anyways here before even separating himself in the most mild way to acknowledge the complexity of American life.

Speaker 1 Also, Donald Trump,

Speaker 1 like Donald Trump's daddy gave him a bunch of money and then he swindled his way to his fortune. That's that's how Donald Trump got where he is.
That's Donald Trump's advantage. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I mean, his DEI is just being a, being a rich Phil son.

Speaker 1 What's poppin' listeners?

Speaker 2 I'm Lacey Mosley, host of the podcast Scam Goddess, the show that's an ode to fraud and all those who practice it. Each week, I talk with very special guests about the scammiest scammers of all time.

Speaker 2 Want to know about the fake heirs? We got them. What about a career con man? We've got them too.
Guys that will wine and dine you and then steal all your coins.

Speaker 2 Oh, you know they are represented because representation matters. I'm joined by guests like Nicole Beyer, Ira Madison III, Conan O'Brien, and more.

Speaker 2 Join the congregation and listen to Scam Goddess wherever you get your podcasts.

Speaker 8 Cashflow Crunch, OnDeck's small business line of credit, gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it.

Speaker 8 Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat with flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently.

Speaker 8 Apply today at on deck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow.
Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondec or Celtic Bank.

Speaker 8 ONDAC does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amount subject to lender approval.

Speaker 9 With TikTok ads, our revenue went up $10 million year over year during back-to-school season. Penn Foster is online education.

Speaker 9 TikTok is great because the reach is incredible for finding a lot of different types of audiences on the platform. Creator content at scale allowed us to easily develop and distribute creator-led ads.

Speaker 9 Our return on ad spend for TikTok is 21% higher than the Nexbus channel.

Speaker 1 Start growing your business today. Head over to getstarted.tiktok.com slash TikTok ads.

Speaker 1 So, what did you make of Kamala Harris's response? I loved it, but what I want to hear why I loved it as well, but I want to hear why you loved it.

Speaker 1 Okay, so I had a couple people say to me, you know, Trump doing this and everyone calling him racist and him taking over the news cycle with this.

Speaker 1 It's giving me 2016 vibes where we were all like, oh, Trump every day was saying something sexist about Hillary or then he was saying something racist about someone else.

Speaker 1 And suddenly that became the campaign and we all thought, oh, of course he's going to lose and then he wins. Right.

Speaker 1 And I do think that not just the Clinton campaign, but the whole Democratic Party has sort of learned over the last several years that

Speaker 1 he wants us to take the bait, right? He wants, he was desperate for the Harris campaign and Democrats to be like, you're a racist. Let's talk.
And then he's like, I didn't say anything racist.

Speaker 1 I said that she's just trying to prove that she's not really black, you know, like, and they want that. And the fact that Kamala Harris stood up there and said

Speaker 1 it was disrespectful, like he always is, and it's divisive, which he always is. But same old story, same old act.
We're all tired of it. We've been hearing it for nine years.
There's nothing new.

Speaker 1 It's complete bullshit. This is why we need to move forward.
This is why we need to turn the page. It is the strongest argument, and it prevents her from getting sucked in.

Speaker 1 And it's also not ignoring it altogether, because I'm sure some people are like, oh, she should ignore it.

Speaker 1 You can't ignore it. But I think lifting it up and making it about, it's not a fight between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump.
He wants it to be a personal fight between the two of them.

Speaker 1 What she needs to do is every time he does this, talk about like, this is a race about the people of this country and living in an inclusive, diverse country where every single person has the chance to get ahead.

Speaker 1 That's what this race is about. He doesn't want it to be about that.
He wants to be about like lobbing insults at me and everyone else because that's who he is. We're so tired of that.
Let's move on.

Speaker 1 I thought what I loved about it was she seemed overjoyed to take it on. Like she almost laughed in that clip right before she started because she's, she was ready for it.

Speaker 1 You're right. It wasn't in anger.
It wasn't about her.

Speaker 1 It was about taking it back on Donald Trump and then fitting it back in her frame. And I love when she said, same old stuff, right? We've seen it.
It's the past. We're focused on the future.

Speaker 1 We don't need this. And there is something, and

Speaker 1 this is like, this is what I have loved about their campaign to date: they take everything as an opportunity to push their frame, right?

Speaker 1 They're not like, they're fighting the war, not the individual battles. And

Speaker 1 because there was just something inherently old and past about not understanding people's complex identities in 2024. It is an old man thing, right?

Speaker 1 It is an old, out-of-touch, 78-year-old rich guy who lives in Palm Beach who doesn't get it. Because, you know, tens of millions of Americans identify as biracial, right?

Speaker 1 Everyone knows someone in their family, their friends, who it's a, you know, white mom, black dad, you know, everything, right? And

Speaker 1 how people talk about it and think about it. And, you know, and this is, we dealt with this with Obama too, right? This was the whole thing.
Obama's not black enough, all those things.

Speaker 1 And people got it. You never had to be explained because they understand because they see it in their lives.
And Donald Trump just looks like

Speaker 1 an old fart who doesn't get it. And that, that's what you want, right?

Speaker 1 This is, that is, that is how this race has fundamentally shifted in the last two weeks is it is, we have gone from present versus near past to future versus past. Trump is the past.

Speaker 1 An old fart and an old fart who's fucking scared. Yeah.
Like he looked and sounded weak doing that.

Speaker 1 Like I know his whole thing and the whole race against Joe Biden was strength and Joe Biden's weak, but Donald Trump latching out like that makes him seem small and weak.

Speaker 1 It did not come from a position of strength.

Speaker 1 So of course, J.D. Vance joined in the stupidity in Arizona on Wednesday night.

Speaker 1 He called Harris a quote phony in his remarks and later added that she has a quote fundamental chameleon-like nature, that she is, quote, not who she pretends to be.

Speaker 1 And he also accused her of faking a southern accent in her Atlanta rally after his event. Then he went back to defending his comments that not having children makes you, quote, sociopathic.

Speaker 1 when reporters asked him vance said quote i'm happy to defend what i said because what i said is true in a clip that the harris campaign immediately circulated good for them so we've been wondering when trump is going to get tired of the jd vance routine it seems like the time might be now he was asked about vance at the nabj event this didn't get obviously as much attention for the for for good reason but here's what he said when he was asked about jd vance when you look at jd vance is he ready on j on day one

Speaker 10 does he what Ready on day one, if he has to be. I've always had great respect for him

Speaker 10 and for the other candidates too. But I will say this,

Speaker 10 and I think this is well documented. Historically, the vice president in terms of the election does not have any impact.
I mean, virtually no impact.

Speaker 1 We knew it. Honestly, I thought it would come as a leak first, or I thought that maybe Trump would try to dress it up a little more.
But he basically stuck two daggers in.

Speaker 1 He was asked, is he ready on day one? And his response is, is he ready to be president on day one? And his response is, the VP doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 Because you can always, we've now been watching this sad, sad man

Speaker 1 in the public sphere for so long. You also know this is the conversation he's been having with a bunch of rich

Speaker 1 Palm Beach donor types who are asking whether he fucked up the JD Vance pick. And his answer is, he can't defend it because there's no upside there at all.
But he would just say, does it matter?

Speaker 1 And he's like, historically, it doesn't matter. It's not exactly true, but kind of true.

Speaker 1 Also, just the way he mentioned that he liked the other people too. And he did say, you know, they're like little, I mean, I could obviously.

Speaker 1 That got me nervous that I'm like, oh, no, he's going to drop him. I think there's a chance he could, but I also love that he said he always had great respect for him.
Yeah. This is player.

Speaker 1 And also, you know for true. Meaning like until I didn't know any of this shit was going to happen.
That's basically what he was trying to say. I mean, Don Jr.

Speaker 1 had his one moment in the sun where his dad pretended like he loved him on stage at the convention, and now he is fucked. He has fallen so far below Eric.

Speaker 1 He might be below Tiffany now in the family inheritance. How long does Donald Trump have to do something about J.D.
Vance if he wanted to drop him from the ticket?

Speaker 1 Don't they have to print ballots somewhat soon? I think so. Soon-ish.

Speaker 1 I don't think we're at ballot printing yet, but we're getting pretty close because we're not that far away from early votes starting in a handful of states. So you could, I mean, you can still

Speaker 1 do the switch after the ballot printing, but you'd much prefer not to. That's actually a really good question for an attorney, which we know some we could ask

Speaker 1 because I know what happened, how tricky it is if the top of the ticket person

Speaker 1 is, but I don't know what would happen if it's the wrong person on ballot.

Speaker 1 On the bottom, like, like if it is, all of a sudden it was Trump Bergham, what that would do. But yeah, but basically, I think he would have like maybe a week at most to probably do this.

Speaker 1 I also can't imagine it being Bergham as a replacement because it's like, we're going to drop JD Vance, but don't you worry, everyone, we got Doug Bergham.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know anyone who would be exciting for people, but like

Speaker 1 even Rubio, I guess, would be better at that point. I don't know.

Speaker 1 You know, there's a conversation happening somewhere in Mar-a-Lago or in the Trump campaign somewhere where they're whispering about like, well, he could ditch JD Vance maybe during the Democratic convention, step on her speech, do something like that,

Speaker 1 get a press hit, or maybe do it the day after.

Speaker 1 They're thinking about it.

Speaker 1 I guess August 7th would be

Speaker 1 probably the deadline because you know, because that was the Ohio. Ohio ballot.
And Trump, like, Kamala Harris could become president without Ohio. Donald Trump cannot.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, August 7th, you'd have to switch. And then the RNC would have some process by which they just rubber-stamped whoever the replacement was.
The new, the new, yeah.

Speaker 1 There was also reporting in the bulwark that everyone on the Trump team thinks that Kellyanne Conway, who was in favor of Rubio for the VP pick, is leaking internal doubts about Vance.

Speaker 1 She didn't exactly deny it to Mar Caputo at the bulwark. What do you think is going on there? Is that just internal sniping where the campaign's pissed at Kellyanne and Kellyanne is sniping back?

Speaker 1 Or what's going on there? I mean, who knows with these people?

Speaker 1 One thing that's pretty clear from seeing Kellyanne over all these years is she really wants people to think she's right. Right and in the know.

Speaker 1 She loves, she, she was, she, she, the piece said that she bristled at the suggestion that she's not still advising Donald Trump. And she's like, I advise him all the time.

Speaker 1 I mean, yes, that is very clear that she, that in any conversation she has, she must put herself in the center of all big decisions in Trump land.

Speaker 1 And so you can just see a world where she's telling people that she was in the room pushing for Rubio or whoever else. And so she's not responsible for this numb school who keeps saying crazy shit.

Speaker 1 So yeah, it is, you know, this is also, it's another sign that wheels are coming off because that's, this was like a flashback to 2017 and 2021 Axio stories about various people kniving each other in Trump world.

Speaker 1 Like there's been none of that throughout this campaign.

Speaker 1 We've joked about the famously disciplined Trump campaign, but one way where they have been more coherent is that there is less, there's less of that internal drama spilling out into the pages of Politico and Axios.

Speaker 1 And this is kind of the bulwark in this case. And this is the first time that's happening.

Speaker 1 So that's also a sign that they are on their heels since Kamala Harris became the presumptive Democratic nominee. And of course, time is a flat circle.

Speaker 1 So all of the Trump campaign internal sniping stories are coming back one more time. Yeah.
Because those stories always come, if history says anything,

Speaker 1 14 to 21 days after the Trump is a changed man stories. So we're right, we're right on schedule here.
Yeah, we are. We are.
All right.

Speaker 1 Lastly, before we move off of this horror show of an interview forever, Rachel Scott also asked Trump whether he can legitimately claim to be the candidate of law and order when he wants to pardon the January 6th rioters.

Speaker 1 Here's what he said.

Speaker 10 My impression is about those rioters who assaulted officers. You have to answer.
Would you pardon them? What's going to happen? Oh, absolutely, I would. You would pardon those.

Speaker 10 If they're innocent, I would pardon them. They've been convicted.
And by the way, the Supreme Court just under.

Speaker 1 He would pardon people who have been convicted of physically assaulting police officers, in some cases, giving them injuries that they are still recovering from right now. And

Speaker 1 we didn't play it in the clip, but afterwards,

Speaker 1 when she says, well, they've been convicted, he's like, yeah, but this system,

Speaker 1 this unfair system.

Speaker 1 So again, convictions only count in Trump's mind when they are convictions against people he does not like, when they are convictions against people that support him or the people that he likes.

Speaker 1 They do not matter. That is the, that is the guy who wants to be the chief law enforcement officer in this country and execute our laws.
Cool stuff. I mean, it is,

Speaker 1 that's going to be the worst politics.

Speaker 1 Like, I mean, I just like, I know, I could see in the last couple months, there were a few quotes here and there from people in the Trump orbit that they were like maybe trying to walk back the pardon thing by saying, well, he wants to, he wouldn't pardon the rioters who've been convicted of physical assault.

Speaker 1 It's the ones who've been convicted of like trespassing or just been sitting in jail and all they did was just walk into the Capitol, right?

Speaker 1 Like he right, just physically assaulting police officers, sure, pardoned. I mean, that to me is an ad.
That's an ad right there. 100%.
It is.

Speaker 1 And even the, like, you're really dancing on the head of a pin if you're trying to separate the people who

Speaker 1 were the two, the actual final assault people who went into the Capitol.

Speaker 1 Because we've seen in polling, look, look there are lots even majorities of republicans believe uh that the election was stolen many of them believe that trump did nothing wrong on jan on january 6th they they have better feelings about uh they feel some of the convictions were wrong the system's broken but they really do not like the people who actually went into the capital and even a lot of republicans do not think they should be pardoned and so trump is he you're right he is zoned in on there's no more there's no less popular way to talk about this than trump has decided than trump is doing it like he is it is he's just

Speaker 1 it's bizarre almost. It's, it, it, there is, has always been like this self-destructive impulse in him, and it is coming out in, he is in full flower right now.

Speaker 1 God, this is why I want the, the, the debate so badly, because can you imagine? Yeah, I know. And it, and again, the, the last debate, it probably would have happened.

Speaker 1 He would have been self-destructive had Biden not had the night that he had. Um, but he, you know, he wasn't challenged.

Speaker 1 And I think if he's challenged at a debate, which I'm sure Kamal Harris would do, and I'm sure the moderators would do as well, who Who knows? Who knows what we'll see?

Speaker 1 Speaking of political liabilities, Project 2025 is, quote, winding down its policy operations, according to the Washington Post, and the guy who was running it stepped down.

Speaker 1 This was also a fun reminder that Project 2025 isn't just a document full of terrible and unpopular ideas.

Speaker 1 It was also a staffing operation run out of the Heritage Foundation to act specifically as an administration in waiting. for Donald Trump.

Speaker 1 And it was filled with over 200 people who worked in the last Trump administration, including some very senior advisors and a handful of cabinet secretaries.

Speaker 1 Anyway, the Trump campaign released a statement saying, quote, reports of Project 2025's demise would be greatly welcomed and should serve as notice to anyone or any group trying to misrepresent their influence with President Trump and his campaign.

Speaker 1 It will not end well for you. Okay.

Speaker 1 Not everyone's so happy about this on the right.

Speaker 1 Molly Hemingway, the editor-in-chief of the Federalists, tweeted, Trump world bows down to left-wing media lies and keeps signaling he doesn't want his most loyal foot soldiers who kept with him even when very few others did, or their conservative ideas in his next administration.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Molly Hemingway.

Speaker 1 What do you think has really been going on behind the scenes between Project 2025 and the Trump people? I think the Trump people really wanted the Project 2025 people to shut the hell up. Right.

Speaker 1 Like there was no need.

Speaker 1 They did this all publicly as a way to raise, to raise money for the Heritage Foundation and raise the relevance of the Heritage Foundation, a group that had fought that was very dominant for a long time public politics and sort of fell out of favor for a long time

Speaker 1 and like they want all the work they want the lists they want the ideas they just don't want the bad press and this is something that had been getting a ton of attention democrats were utilizing it very well and so they wanted these people to shut up now

Speaker 1 it's important to note that donald trump is the official nominee of the republican party Next, in a couple of weeks, Kamala Harris will be the official nominee of the Democratic Party.

Speaker 1 And what that will mean is that the federally funded transition operations will begin. So they don't need Project 2025 in two weeks to staff the government with all these apparatches.

Speaker 1 Like they can do it. They're going to, taxpayer dollars will be helping them do it by Labor Day.
It's interesting when you said that. I thought, oh, now we're going to know.

Speaker 1 The transition is going to get staffed with people who were part of Project 2025. Like that is inevitable.
Yeah. Yeah.
It won't be the people who are the head of it, obviously.

Speaker 1 No, because they want to be careful. But like, it's going to, it's going to become obvious pretty soon that, of course, the Trump campaign embraces both the people and the ideas of Project 2025.

Speaker 1 Obviously. Of course, they're going to do it.
There's not even a question in my mind.

Speaker 1 There is no question in my mind that were Trump to win the White House, Project 2025 will be their 100-day, their 200-day, their 300-day, their first term plan, right?

Speaker 1 That is what they're going to do. And the people on that list are going to be working in that government.
Because do you think the Trump people are out there just really.

Speaker 1 combing through LinkedIn looking for undersecretaries of natural resources? Of course not.

Speaker 1 There's no one left.

Speaker 1 They They had like dozens of senior advisors and national security people and cabinet secretaries who've said that Trump is dangerous and a threat and would never work for him again.

Speaker 1 A whole bunch of other people who probably have legal bills from the last Trump administration. Like they don't have a lot of choices.
So of course that's how they're going to staff their government.

Speaker 1 And the idea that, because you know,

Speaker 1 you talk about sort of the Democratic strategy moving forward on Project 2025, the idea that Donald Trump is somehow separate from these ideas or doesn't embrace most of these ideas, like he's already come out for eliminating the Department of Education, rolling back all of Joe Biden's environmental regulations, getting rid of most of the non-political appointees in the federal government to replace them with MAGA loyalists.

Speaker 1 He included Medicare and Social Security cuts in every single budget he proposed every year he was president. Like all of this stuff, he's already agreed to, you know?

Speaker 1 And so I, it's, I don't know, is there anything else that you think Democrats should do going forward on this? I think we never stop talking about it. We keep pushing him.

Speaker 1 We do not take no for an answer here, right? This is their agenda. I would start joking, too, about Donald Trump saying things like, I know nothing about Project 2025.

Speaker 1 I think some of the points are fine. Some of them I disagree with.
I've never read the document. I think some of the points are good.
I have no idea who's behind it.

Speaker 1 More than 200 people who used to work for me run it.

Speaker 1 Like, I just, there is sort of a, there's a mocking there that I think is important because some, some people will think, oh, well, he's disavowed Project 2025. He says he has nothing to do with it.

Speaker 1 And I think it's important to like remind people that he's full of shit. There was plenty of great mainstream press coverage of Project 2025.
Like the press did a very good job of it. Really good job.

Speaker 1 But the reason why it broke through was people took it online and started creating their own content about it. It really was like we are now living in a, you know, brat summer, coconut-pilled

Speaker 1 abundance of pro-Kamala, anti-Trump media.

Speaker 1 But the one success we had prior to the changing candidacy was lot of people made some great videos and content about Project 2025 that really scared the shit of a lot of people and they got, and they got shared.

Speaker 1 And so you can do, continue, we should continue to do that.

Speaker 1 There's, I mean, these are, you know, Cheesecake Factory menus lists of bad policies that we can continue to do and people should keep doing and pushing it out there.

Speaker 1 Because then you're, if you're trying to litigate this in the free press, like what the Trump people accomplished here is getting the, you know, you can see the debate where the moderator says to Kamala Harris, but the Trump campaign, but the project has ended, right?

Speaker 1 Or in a press conference or an interview that she is doing-not an interview here, an interview with more credulous mainstream media, but

Speaker 1 on social media, continue to educate people about it because

Speaker 1 you are in the correct. You are in the right if you are pushing this out there and explaining to people what it is, because that is a Trump agenda, whether they disavowed this staffing plan or not.

Speaker 5 Hey, weirdos!

Speaker 11 I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 5 Each week, we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 11 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 5 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 11 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 5 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Yay! Woo! Aye!

Speaker 8 OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, ONDEC's loans up to $250,000 help make it happen fast.

Speaker 8 Rated A by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star trust pilot reviews, Ondeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at onDeck.com.

Speaker 8 Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by Ondeck or Celtic Bank. Ondeck does not lend in North Dakota, all loans and amount subject to lender approval.

Speaker 9 With TikTok ads, our revenue went up $10 million year over year during back-to-school season. Penn Foster is online education.

Speaker 9 TikTok is great because the reach is incredible for finding a lot of different types of audiences on the platform. Creator content at scale allowed us to easily develop and distribute creator-led ads.

Speaker 9 Our return on ad spend for TikTok is 21% higher than the Nexbus channel.

Speaker 1 Start growing your business today. Head over to getstarted.tiktok.com/slash TikTok ads.

Speaker 1 All right, we are down to the final few days until VP Harris selects a VP of her own. As a reminder, the reporting is that she's going to do a rally on Tuesday, introducing her running mate.

Speaker 1 That rally is in Philadelphia, stoking a lot of speculation that the pick would be Pennsylvania Governor Josh Shapiro.

Speaker 1 The campaign said not to read too much into the location, but then today, NBC News reported that Shapiro had canceled some fundraisers that were scheduled for this weekend, and Shapiro's folks confirmed that.

Speaker 1 They also reported that Shapiro met with Harris's vetting team on Wednesday.

Speaker 1 Harris wasn't there, apparently, but reportedly the vetting team had very similar meetings with Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, Illinois Governor J.B.

Speaker 1 Pritzker, Kentucky Governor Andy Bashir, and Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg. How much do you read into all the signs that are pointing towards Trapiro? Do not read anything into the signs.

Speaker 1 There are no clues. I think it's helpful for you and I to explain how this worked when Barack Obama picked Joe Biden.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We were in the know.

Speaker 1 We were senior-ish staffers on that campaign. Up until hours before the announcement, your team was writing three different speeches.

Speaker 1 Right? You wrote a speech for Joe Biden. Well, I'll tell you what happened.

Speaker 1 Yes, we were supposed to write all three speeches. I wrote the Joe Biden speech because

Speaker 1 I was getting vibes that it might be Joe Biden. And then someone else wrote the Evan Bay speech and someone else wrote the Tim Kaine speech.
And I think that I edited the Tim Kaine speech.

Speaker 1 I don't even think I looked at the Evan Bay speech.

Speaker 1 I was like, he's not picking Evan Bay. But so I like had a sense that it was Joe Biden, but you're right.
That was was all I knew. And we had to do three speeches.
Right.

Speaker 1 We had three communications plans. There were three sets of signs that were made.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so this idea that

Speaker 1 because it's the most closely held secret in the entire campaign, I'm sure the campaign wants to tell their supporters before anyone else knows.

Speaker 1 So the idea that the advanced team knows it's Josh Shapiro, so they booked a rally in Pennsylvania is that is not it.

Speaker 1 The reason the rally is in Pennsylvania is because Pennsylvania is the most important state for Kamala Harris and Donald Trump to get to 270. And it's the closest to Washington, D.C.

Speaker 1 and Wilmington where the campaign is. And so if you're doing a Battleground State tour, it makes sense just logistically to

Speaker 1 start in Philly. That's so funny you said that.
It did not occur to me until now that the campaign is still in Wilmington, Delaware, even though Kamala Harris is from Oakland, which is so.

Speaker 1 I mean, I love my home city, but it's just. I think it's, I've heard that it's split.
Like there are some people who are working out of D.C.

Speaker 1 and there's some people who are still working out of Wilmington. So we'll see.

Speaker 1 And this idea, Josh Shapiro may be canceling his fundraisers because he's probably been told, as have the other finalists, to keep their weekends open for some sort of secret meeting with Carola Harris.

Speaker 1 She's not going to pick up what she's not going to.

Speaker 1 And the other thing you mentioned about the fundraiser, about donors or campaign fundraisers telling people that they should give now because there are certain laws about people who do business with the state giving for governors, the fundraisers also don't know, right?

Speaker 1 No one knows.

Speaker 1 No one would tell a fucking fundraiser.

Speaker 1 Like, here's the thing. If the fundraiser knows, you know, right? I was just going to say, the fundraiser knows, failure.
Uh,

Speaker 1 and so I don't know that she, she probably has not made her decision yet. She apparently hasn't met with the finalists yet.

Speaker 1 She probably has an idea of who she was thinking. Like, Obama clearly was very much leaning towards Joe Biden when he, I think, when he did those final meetings with the folks.

Speaker 1 But it's probably Kamala Harris, Jenna Malley Dylan, one or two other people on her closest team who have any sense of where her head is on this. And so all the clues are fake.
It's all just noise.

Speaker 1 So some lefty groups like the Democratic Socialists of America and the Uncommitted Movement are making it known that they would not be happy with Shapiro on the ticket, mainly because they think the Jewish governor is too pro-Israel, even though he's called Netanyahu one of the worst leaders of all time.

Speaker 1 notably has taken positions on Gaza that are no different than any of the other VP contenders. What do you think about that?

Speaker 1 I think it makes me deeply uncomfortable that you would have that position specifically for Governor Shapiro.

Speaker 1 Yeah, who's the only one who's Jewish? Yeah. And even beyond that, just for people's understanding, what matters here is Kamala Harris's position.
Right. Right.

Speaker 1 And just to give you an example from our life,

Speaker 1 Barack Obama's signature issue was his opposition to the Iraq War. Joe Biden.

Speaker 1 voted for the Iraq war and was a longtime defender of the Iraq war and became Barack Obama's running mate and became then an advocate for Barack Obama's position for ending the Iraq War, right?

Speaker 1 That like that his position, were he to be the VP nominee, will be what her position is. And so if you're comfortable with her position, and you may not be, right?

Speaker 1 And you may want to push her to change it, whatever it else, but her position is a dominant position here on this issue and every other issue. And guess what?

Speaker 1 Kamala Harris, who's now getting attacked for positions she took in 2019 and 2020 in that primary, All of her positions are changed now because they were changed when she got to the White House because her positions were Joe Biden's positions.

Speaker 1 Yeah. That's what, like, just what you said.
That's what happens with the VP. And Josh Shapiro serves in this White House, his positions are going to be Kamala Harris's positions.
Aside from that,

Speaker 1 the reason that Josh Shapiro keeps getting mentioned and he keeps popping up at the top of the list is like the guy has a 60% approval rating in Pennsylvania.

Speaker 1 He has won elections there by a good deal. He outran John Fetterman in 2022.
Now, of course, he was running against Doug Mastriano, who is somehow even a worse candidate than Dr.

Speaker 1 Ross, but he is wildly popular in Pennsylvania. And there was a Fox poll, I believe, last week, that tested what if it was Shapiro versus Trump in Pennsylvania, and it had him winning by 10 points.

Speaker 1 And I haven't seen any polling yet that tests how would Harris Shapiro fare against Trump Vance in Pennsylvania and like, would it make a difference on the tickets? I haven't seen that polling yet.

Speaker 1 But if it helps a few points and everything else checks out well with Josh Shapiro, and Pennsylvania is the tipping point state in this election, the most important state to win, you could see why she would want to go for Josh Shapiro.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, the polling is a little,

Speaker 1 like hypothetical polling is always a little sketchy.

Speaker 1 I have seen polling that ask people, would you, Pennsylvania voters, would you be more or less likely to vote for Kamala Harris if Josh Shapiro was on the ticket?

Speaker 1 I've seen similar question for Mark Kelly in Arizona. A lot of Pennsylvanians are more likely.
Most of them will say it makes no difference. A majority will say it makes no difference.

Speaker 1 Some of them will say more and a tiny percentage will say yes. So yes, we'll say it makes them less likely to vote.
But the problem with that polling is the sample sizes aren't good enough to know.

Speaker 1 Are the people who are saying more likely, people who are voting for Kamal Harris anyway? Right. So you don't really know.

Speaker 1 Whether it's Josh Shapiro or Mark Kelly in Arizona, history shows. And with all of these things, there's a very small sample size issue, but generally...

Speaker 1 In the past, one to two points is what you can expect from, it's the home state. It's considered the home state advantage.

Speaker 1 That has gone down in recent years as American politics have gotten more national, more polarized, and more nationalized. But over the past,

Speaker 1 the home state advantage is greatly overstated, but Pennsylvania is probably going to be decided by two points.

Speaker 1 When was the last time there was a VP on the ticket

Speaker 1 who was from a very competitive state that Paul Ryan in Wisconsin?

Speaker 1 No, I was going to say

Speaker 1 who was a statewide statewide official, right?

Speaker 1 Because Paul Ryan in Wisconsin, it's like he had a district there, and I'm sure people in Wisconsin know him, but he wasn't a statewide official in Wisconsin. Was it Gore in Tennessee?

Speaker 1 Although Tennessee back in what, in 1992, that wasn't like a make-or-break state, was it? Clinton won it easily in 92 and 96. But Gore obviously famously lost it in 2000.

Speaker 1 So in some cases, the home state advantage doesn't work.

Speaker 1 I think Paul Ryan is

Speaker 1 the closest approximation because he's not a random congressman. He was a national figure with name ID, sort of akin to a statewide elected official, but it's been a long time.
But

Speaker 1 the way they measure this generally is not in a battleground. It doesn't have to be a battleground state.
Like what, how did the state perform compared to how

Speaker 1 the Kansas performed nationally, right? Because a baseline.

Speaker 1 And so, you know, it's like Biden did, you know, Obama did a point or two better in Delaware than he otherwise would have done based on, but it's, it's, it's all very hard to disentangle what it means.

Speaker 1 So I think the thing is, it's not, it is, does not, picking Shapiro does not guarantee Pennsylvania. It may help.
It may. And then you say the same thing about Mark Kelly in Arizona.
It may help.

Speaker 1 But if it does help, it's only going to help a little.

Speaker 1 Right. I think that's right.
And so I think at the end of the day, if you're Kamal Harris, you want someone, first of all, you want someone who can govern. Right.

Speaker 1 You like a lot of these candidates and Barack Obama thought this too, which is like, I want to pick someone who, if something happens to me, then like, I feel they are ready on day one, like Trump could not say about J.D.

Speaker 1 Vance. And then you want someone that you like vibe with on the campaign trail, someone that you know, someone that you trust, right?

Speaker 1 And so, you know, we can make all the political calculations and I'm sure the Harris campaign is doing that as well, but she's got to feel comfortable with this person.

Speaker 1 And so what do you think about sort of the other contenders?

Speaker 1 I think, like you said, Kelly would potentially help with Arizona a little bit, which is a key state, not as key as Pennsylvania, not as many electoral votes.

Speaker 1 And she's probably behind there by more than she is in Pennsylvania. So that's something to consider.

Speaker 1 And then you've got Tim Walls, who it would be someone that you'd pick because he makes a great argument, he's great on TV, and could go to some of those Midwestern states and probably do well campaigning.

Speaker 1 I think Pete Budigej, excellent communicator, one of the best messengers in the party, also says nothing says future than Harris and Pete on the ticket together.

Speaker 1 So what do you think about some of the other possibilities? I actually think they're all great. Yeah, they really are.

Speaker 1 I actually would not be disappointed. There's not a bad choice in the group.
Yeah. I didn't have strong feelings about Tim Walls, but then I listened to the interview with Love It and he was awesome.

Speaker 1 And it did remind me that this will also date myself.

Speaker 1 Back in 2006, campaign ads didn't go viral back then because no way for them to go viral, but Tim Walls had an introductory ad that was based on his time as a football coach for his congressional run 2006.

Speaker 1 That was one that everyone in town talked about and thought was like the best ad of the cycle, which I looked for for at least seven minutes on youtube and i could not find but tim walls is he has got a great story he's a great candidate the internet has fallen in love with tim walls like he is he is there's a lot of tim walls on tick tock these days um

Speaker 1 i mean kelly it has obviously has gravitas military experience astronaut gabby giffords you know um

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 I think provides some ideological moderation in how he's sort of seen as a moderate, tough on the border.

Speaker 1 He's definitely like on paper, like the most impressive resume, right? But then the question is, you know, we've seen a bunch of people who are on paper really good. It doesn't pan out.

Speaker 1 But on paper, I think you're right. Like an astronaut who was in the military and, I mean, let's, yeah.
And

Speaker 1 he's had two tough rates, two really tough races, two high-profile tough races. Shapiro has not had a tough race.

Speaker 1 Right. That's because Doug Mastriano, Kook,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 his attorney general races, which was statewide.

Speaker 1 But it's it's not.

Speaker 1 He hasn't had a lot of money spent against him. So we don't.
Kelly's been in the crucible.

Speaker 1 And so you can have some, that gives you, like, there, it's hard to compare a Senate race to a presidential race, but at least you've seen he's had some things.

Speaker 1 The other thing is that Susan, I talked about the Susan Rice when I talked to her for last week's pod, is all that stuff is interesting, but the president and the vice president have lunch together once a week.

Speaker 1 And so you really do have to, like, think about this.

Speaker 1 If you have to pick someone, like, imagine you're hiring someone for your company and they're like, you're like, I'm going to have to have lunch with this person once a week for the next 48 years.

Speaker 1 Like, you really got to like the person for that. You really got to think it's been an interesting, useful conversation.

Speaker 1 And honestly, honestly, that's why I hired Lovett to be the speechwriter in the White House because I was like, did the interviews? There's a lot of good candidates, a lot of good speeches.

Speaker 1 But at the end of the day, I was sitting there at Starbucks and he's making me laugh. And I'm like, I think I, I think, I think I could hang out with this guy.
15 years later,

Speaker 1 yeah, boy, still eat lunch together. If only I could go back.

Speaker 1 Just kidding, just kidding, Lovett. Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 1 And also, she knows Josh Shapiro because they were AGs together, the same class of AGs. And same thing with Bashir.

Speaker 1 We haven't talked about Bashir, but Andy Bashir is also that class of attorneys general.

Speaker 1 So some of these personal relationships probably matter as well.

Speaker 1 Well, we'll see. We'll see.
We'll see if it leaks. So the event's going to be Tuesday, so it might really hoping it leaks before we record on Monday, but who knows?

Speaker 1 We have really gotten lucky with some

Speaker 1 news recently. So I think that this one is definitely, you're going to

Speaker 1 put that pod in the can, and then it's going to pop right out. Yeah, probably.
All right. Before we go, the election cycle is ramping up.

Speaker 1 And if that feels like being trapped in a Boeing that's already lost a wheel, but still speeding down the runway, we're here to help.

Speaker 1 Every week, we're cutting through the noise with honest, open, sanity-preserving conversations about what's at stake.

Speaker 1 We're talking abortion, healthcare, immigration, taxes, supreme court positions, and so much more. Want to be proactive but don't know where to start? Consider subscribing to Pod Save America.

Speaker 1 And if you're already subscribed, let's take it a step further share an episode with five of your friends so they can share it with five of their friends

Speaker 1 this line says that's right we're bringing back y2k chain letters or reference that i don't know who will understand i mean we're of the demographic who should understand it and i don't understand it barely yeah uh and if you're too young to know what that means oh look i should just should have read the next sentence we need you out there more than anyone i love when the housekeeping surprises me head to apple or your preferred podcast platform now to make sure you're subscribed then share your favorite episode with someone in in your life who could be more engaged, active, and hopeful for our democracy.

Speaker 1 There's no time to waste. All right, that's our show for today.
We will be back with a new pod on Tuesday morning. And everyone have a good weekend and we'll talk to you then.
Bye, everyone.

Speaker 1 If you want to get ad-free episodes, exclusive content, and more, consider joining our Friends of the Pod subscription community at cricket.com slash friends.

Speaker 1 And if you're already doom scrolling, don't forget to follow us at Pod Save America on Instagram, Twitter, and YouTube for access to full episodes, bonus content, and more.

Speaker 1 Plus, if you're as opinionated as we are, consider dropping us a review to help boost this episode or spice up the group chat by sharing it with friends, family, or randos you want in on this conversation.

Speaker 1 Pod Save America is a crooked media production. Our producer is David Toledo.
Our associate producers are Saul Rubin and Faris Safari.

Speaker 1 Reed Cherlin is our executive editor, and Adrian Hill is our executive producer. The show is mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick.

Speaker 1 Jordan Cantor is our sound engineer, with audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis. Writing support by Hallie Kiefer.
Madeleine Herringer is our head of news and programming.

Speaker 1 Matt DeGroote is our head of production. Andy Taft is our executive assistant.

Speaker 1 Thanks to our digital team, Elijah Cohn, Haley Jones, Phoebe Bradford, Joseph Dutra, Ben Heathcote, Mia Kelman, Molly Lobel, Kirill Pelavieve, and David Toles.

Speaker 11 Hey, weirdos, I'm Elena, and I'm Ash, and we are the hosts of Morbid Podcast.

Speaker 5 Each week we dive into the dark and fascinating world of true crime, spooky history, and the unexplained.

Speaker 11 From infamous killers and unsolved mysteries to haunted places and strange legends, we cover it all with research, empathy, humor, and a few creative expletives.

Speaker 5 It's smart, it's spooky, and it's just the right amount of weird.

Speaker 11 Two new episodes drop every week, and there's even a bonus once a month.

Speaker 5 Find us wherever you listen to podcasts. Yay! Woo!

Speaker 12 Did you know that parents rank financial literacy as the number one most difficult life skill to teach? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app for families.

Speaker 12 With Greenlight, you can set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on your kids' spending with real-time notifications.

Speaker 12 Kids learn to earn, save, and spend wisely, and parents can rest easy knowing their kids are learning about money with guardrails in place.

Speaker 12 Sign up for Greenlight today at greenlight.com/slash podcast.