Are Republicans About To Impeach Biden?

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central's the daily show new tonight at 11 on comedy central and streaming next day on paramount plus Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Dan Pfeiffer.

And I'm Alyssa Mastromonaco.

Alyssa, thank you for joining us again. This is, I think, the third time you filled in during the month of vacations here at Crooked Media.
I love it. It's my insurrection.
The question is, will you be here next week when we do the Zoom? I mean, I'll do anything. Anything you ask of me, Pfeiffer.
Anything if you ask me, I'll be there. All right.
Excellent. All right.
Let's get into it.

OK.

On today's pod, the House Republicans might impeach Joe Biden. The right wing hatches a plan to destroy the federal government.
Senator Maziarono talks to Alyssa about the tragic fires in Maui, and we answer some of your questions. All right.
Despite no evidence, and I literally mean zero evidence, it appears that the House Republicans are about to embark on an impeachment inquiry into Joe Biden having something to do with the business dealings of his son, Hunter. Here's what Kevin McCarthy had to say to Fox News' Maria Bartiromo on Sunday.
So if you look at all the information we've been able to gather so far, it is a natural step forward that you would have to go to an impeachment inquiry. And just so your viewers understand what that means, that provides Congress the apex of legal power to get all the information they need.
All right, Alyssa, I'm not sure why this is not a bigger story. And I think there's a very good chance this would maybe be the dominant story in American politics when Congress comes back next week.
But it really seems like based on the reporting and Kevin McCarthy's habit of doing whatever the Freedom Caucus tells him to do, like the House is actually going to embark on this impeachment inquiry maybe as soon as next week. Here's my question for you.
Have these people lost their fucking minds? Buddy, the SNL skit writes itself. I mean, this is like, he's practically hyperventilating in that interview because he's already stressed.
This is such a circus. It's like, what do they say? You elect a clown.
It doesn't make the place a kingdom. It makes it a circus.

I don't know, something like that.

But that's basically what he's done.

And that is what Congress is going to be like when they come back.

The world, there are so many important problems on this planet, buddy.

But let's make sure that we use the apex of political power for this.

I mean, just so people are clear, the launching of an impeachment inquiry does not necessarily mean they are going to impeach Joe Biden. But in the history of the United States, impeachment inquiries have been launched quite rarely.
And they almost always end in impeachment because these things get a momentum of their own. And this is truly, truly bizarre.
And it's particularly

bizarre in a world in which Kevin McCarthy has an incredibly narrow majority. He can barely pass mildly controversial bills, let alone the impeachment of the president of the United States.
He has 19 members who are currently in districts that Joe Biden won in 2020. and he is going down this path.

Now, Kevin McCarthy,

because he is the kind of guy who likes to read the stage directions out loud during the play, decided to do an interview with the New York Times this week where he told, he basically told the New York Times that the reason he was doing this was as a way to convince the far-right members of his

caucus to avoid shutting down the government. Does that make any sense to you? Or is that a plan so crazy that it could work? Honestly, I think it's not a bad plan for him.
Like, look, every- No. Yes, yes, no.
Hear me out. Hear me out.
I'm not saying I think it's a good idea in general. I'm saying here's the deal.
Kevin McCarthy has three constituencies, right? He's got Trump, he's got the Freedom Caucus, and he's got the moderates. Every day is about survival for this man.
He serves two out of three with this move. He'll be able to raise some money off of it.
I mean, buddy, listen, there is a time back in the day

when you could buy votes with a bridge to nowhere, you know, but like now you got to try and impeach somebody. And so like, I don't know, call me clairvoyant, but I can't help but think that old Kevin hasn't heard the last from the Freedom Caucus on shutting down the government.
Like they aren't exactly rational or cohesive. Now, to try to explain the substantive logic, and I use the term logic quite loosely here, the argument that McCarthy is making is that if the government were to shut down, Congress would have to stop this impeachment inquiry into Biden.
And therefore, if you really care about impeaching Biden, you want to keep the government open. Now, a couple of flaws in this plan.
One is, Kevin McCarthy is essentially the one who determines what Congress can and can't do during a shutdown. So the Freedom Caucus just has to come to Kevin McCarthy and say, no, this is an urgent thing and we're going to keep it going.
Right, right. Two, there's a very obvious way here in which the House Supreme Caucus can have their shutdown and eat it too, because they can start the impeachment inquiry, shut down the government, take a break for three weeks while the government shut down, come back and continue the impeachment inquiry.
So now Kevin McCarthy has the worst of both worlds, which is the government is shut down, something he thinks is quite unpopular and damaging, and he has this impeachment inquiry, which he has decided I think incorrectly to be slightly less politically damaging than shutting down the government. So I just, like, as a political professional and a human being who believes in rational thinking, this makes me want to scream.
Because the basic, the most basic task of being Speaker of the House is keeping the government open. That is it.
Yes. That is table stakes.
That's what you think, buddy. That's what you think.
Kevin McCarthy thinks his only job is to try to keep his job. And that's all he's thinking about right now.
And he doesn't care. He's like, he's like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables.
He just keeps looking at the mirror and saying one day more, one day more. That I have to, that is the first musical theater reference on a Thursday pod to date.
So congratulations. Thank you so much.
It's why you brought me here. But here's the thing.
The question, I guess the question is, what is the job Kevin McCarthy cares more about? Is it leader of the Republican caucus or speaker? Speaker, right? Well, then he is choosing incorrectly because polls show that 56%, now a poll came out and we will see more that, and this poll is done by a Democratic group. So take it with a modicum of salt, but that 56% of people think that impeachment of Joe Biden would be a partisan witch hunt or partisan fishing expedition, whatever the language is.
But people don't like it, right? A majority of people don't like it. To keep his majority, he has to convince some number of people who voted for Joe Biden in 2020 and are likely to vote for him again in 2024 to also vote for a Republican member of the House.
How is impeaching Joe Biden or wasting taxpayer dollars on this thing? So much money. Completely bogus thing.
How is that going to help him do that? It is so dumb. And I do think we ought to stipulate.
And this is very important. I should have said this earlier.
And I just got so worked up about this. I went down a path of attacking Kevin McCarthy, which I do sometimes, is I just want to be very clear.
Congress has investigated this for well over a year. Yeah.
A U.S. attorney has investigated Hunter Biden, a Trump-appointed U.S.
attorney who is now a special counsel, has invested Hunter Biden for five years dating back to the Trump administration. In that time, the media has also dug deep into this.
Right-wing media, mainstream media have thrown all their resources at this.

And never at any time have they found a piece, a single shred of evidence that Joe Biden did anything improper as relates to Hunter Biden's business dealings. Not once.
Not a single piece of evidence. The person they're basing this on is the testimony of a former business partner of Hunter Biden named Devin Archer, who has been convicted of multiple crimes, is awaiting a sentence to prison, and also did not, according to the Democrats who heard his deposition, indicate that Joe Biden did anything other than say hello to his son and the people he was speaking to while on speakerphone.
Buddy, buddy, buddy, buddy. Are you under the impression that they're tethered to reality in any way, in any way whatsoever? Or- Of course not.
Of course not. Or that they're linear thinkers.
Well, yes. I think we should hold them to account for not being linear thinkers.
I agree. And to think more than one move ahead.
There has never been a human being in the history of the planet, with the possible exception of Donald Trump, more likely to fail the marshmallow test than Kevin McCarthy. If you said to Kevin McCarthy, I can prick your finger today or I can cut off your arm in six months, he would choose having his arm severed in six months.
That's right. It is always what happens down the line.
Yeah. And it just, it makes no sense.
And this is just so, such idiotic galaxy brain thinking that I can't take it. And it's frankly bad for, it's bad for Kevin McCarthy.
It's bad for the house. It's bad for the Congress in general.
It's bad for the country. It is just, it's idiocy and it's about to be upon us.
There's like, as you said, there's real things happening here. They have to pass a bill

for funding for natural disasters.

There's a hurricane

hitting the Southeast United States

right now as we say this.

You just talked to Senator Hirono

about the Maui fires.

They have to give money to people.

What are they going to do instead of that?

This bullshit.

Yep.

Yep.

But this tracks.

This tracks.

I mean.

Yeah, yeah.

It's on brand.

We don't have to like the brand.

Right.

We don't have to like the brand,

but this is like,

they, they,

none of them,

I'm just going to go out on a limb here.

None of the people have be in Congress to help people. That's not why they're here.
other than Donald Trump. They want to be there to help Donald Trump.
Oh my God, yes, help Trump.

One interesting wrinkle here is that in the past,

most impeachment inquiries begin with a vote of the full House to say this is of such a serious nature that we're going to have a vote and to declare that we're going to look into this. Right.
Now, in 2019, Nancy Pelosi, quite deftly, I would think, decided, given the members that she had in vulnerable districts, said, we are not going to have a vote of the full House. We're just going to begin, which is procedurally you can do.
That made Kevin McCarthy and every Republican quite angry at the time. He called it an abusive process, illegitimate, blah, blah, blah.
I'm going to give you one guess. How do you think Kevin McCarthy plans to launch this inquiry as soon as September? The same way? The exact same way, without a vote of the House.
I mean, they're nothing if not hypocritical. Now, do you think that's a good, should we like slam him for some hypocrisy? Are we going to get him that way? No, of course not.
Who cares? They don't care if their shit's devoid of merit. They're fine with it.
They don't care. I mean, they just don't care.
And so there's no point in trying to argue the point because we did it. So now they do it, even though Donald Trump actually committed crimes, some on national television.
And, you know, these guys are trying to chase a Biden down a rabbit hole. I mean, just so we can, because everyone's memories have grown so short in this terrible age we live in, the reason the House impeached Donald Trump was because he was on tape blackmailing the president of Ukraine.
Of where? Ukraine? Oh, right. Yes, yes.
Holden extorting him over funding for the military weapons he would need to oppose, at the time seemed like a nebulous threat from Russia, in order to get dirt on Joe Biden's son, Hunter.

And that was on tape.

So, seems like these are not two of the same things. Not apples to apples here.
Now, even if the House launches inquiry and then Kevin McCarthy somehow gets the requisite number of Republicans to vote to impeach Joe Biden on all of this bullshit. We know Joe Biden is not going to be convicted and removed from office because, as a reminder, it takes two-thirds, a vote of two-thirds of the Senate to make that happen.
That did not happen for Trump. Either time he was impeached, it's not going to happen for Joe Biden here, such as he did nothing wrong.
But if you're in the White House, how do you view this? Do you view this as a gigantic pain in your ass? Something you can maybe welcome politically? What's your take on it? You know, I don't think they welcome it. I don't think it's that bad.
I don't know that anybody welcomes it. It's going to be a huge fucking pain in the ass.
You know, it's like, I think that this is a White House that can more than, is more than capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time. They will have a team.
There will be people outside, you know, an external group that will help them. They will keep doing the people's business.
You know, they will keep getting things done for this country, but it's a, it's a distraction and it's a pain in the ass. Again, a lot of other things happening in this country that they should be focusing on.
And I mean, I think they'll continue to focus on those things, but this is like, it's a pain in the ass. It's a huge pain in the ass.
Yeah. The reason why this is more of a pain in the ass than the other oversight investigations that have been ongoing for a year and a half now is under the rubric of an impeachment inquiry, Congress has its highest power to investigate.
Right. Its subpoenas, well, we thought at least that its subpoenas would be taken more seriously.
A lot of court decisions during the various Trump impeachments really brought that into question, but there are various officials or requests for documents, emails are more likely to have to be negotiated or acceded to under an impeachment inquiry, potentially than under the normal bullshit that Jim Jordan's doing every day to end up on Newsmax or whatever else. Now, I will say, and this is maybe a bit of fortune for the Biden folks, is they just named Ed Siskel, the new White House counsel.
Who is terrific. We love Ed.
We worked with him in the Obama White House. He was very instrumental in helping us respond, although Obama was on peach, but he was the target of one gazillion bullshit investigations, helped us navigate all of those things.
And so they have a very able hand to help them handle this. They have some really smart people doing the comm stuff on this.
Beth LeBold, who's the communications director, was the person who handled the response to all of the Republican bullshit in the legal

investigation stuff for us as well. So they are certainly not rookies in this in any way,

shape, or form. No, they can handle it.
What do you think the politics of this are for Biden?

Is it somewhat, even if it's annoying in the short term, is the mere fact that this a little

bit of a political gift? I think a little bit. I think that President Biden is really good

at taking on the Republicans when they really sort of piss him off by just making them seem small and seeming unafraid of them. And I think that that's what he'll do.
He will get asked a gazillion questions when he's out campaigning and he'll be like, yep. I mean, like, look, when you think about it, Donald Trump obfuscates.
He denies.

He tries to get away with things.

And Joe Biden's just going to like damn into the torpedo.

He's going to be like, yeah, okay, fine.

Come for me.

Here you go.

We'll give you whatever you want.

Like take everything.

You know, like dust on his shoulder.

So I think it's, you know, I just, it's hard to imagine. You mean dirt on a shoulder, right?

What did I say?

Dust?

Yeah.

Did I mess up a rap lyric?

You messed up the Jay-Z reference.

Oh, yes. Okay.
I meant whatever I'm supposed to have said. But I did the brush.
It's fine. I did the brush thing right.
Yes, you did. Correct.
But no, I mean, like, it's hard to say it's like a net positive, but I think that they will make the best of it, I guess. Yeah.
No one wants to be impeached. No.
No one wants to deal with these things. It will be supremely annoying.
If the House actually goes through with this, it becomes one of these things that is hard to explain generations from now. Right.
When people are just going to whatever the hologram 3D metaverse version of Wikipedia is, and they read about Joe Biden. And it's like, how do we explain to these people that there was this period in time

where the Republican Party was run by idiotic weaklings who decided to impeach the president

for no reason?

Like, that will be a hard thing to explain.

Right.

But from a pure, raw politics point of view.

So I'm going to use this poll that I mentioned before that was done by the Congressional

Integrity Project, which is a Democratic group that pushes back Republican investigations. You know, for someone who hates polls, you love polls.
I think that they just provide us a little snapshot in time. OK, that's good.
I just wanted to take a minute. And so this poll showed that 56 percent of voters, as I said, thought that this basically was stupid partisan bullshit.
But in 88 percent of Democrats thought that I would like to speak to the 12% who didn't. But when you look at the 2024 polling today, the race is much closer than you want it to be.
And the main reason for that is Joe Biden is currently underperforming with Democrats and people who voted for him in 2020. Right.
And he's getting, in some cases, about 77% of Democrats. I wrote a long piece about this in the message box earlier this week.
But one thing that will quickly solve that problem is Republicans impeaching him. This is exactly what happened to Trump's approval numbers in 2019, early 2020.
When Democrats impeached him, Republicans went back to Trump.

Right.

And his approval numbers actually went up during the course of that inquiry.

And so there will probably, this will, in some ways, remind people why the Republicans are

fucking nuts and remind them.

One of the validations of Joe Biden's presidency will be that these hateful morons are attacking

him.

That's how negative partisanship and polarization works in this day and age.

Oh, thank you for breaking that down. Sorry.
Did I do that in an obnoxious way? No, it was perfect. Okay, thank you, thank you, thank you.
Okay, switching gears for a second. And speaking of cockamamie right-wing schemes, the Heritage Foundation- Oh, I'm so upset about this.
That's why we had you here. The right wing, a right wing think tank has put together a 1000 page plan and plans to recruit thousands of people to come to Washington to literally destroy the federal government as we know it and fire up to 50,000 civil servants if Donald Trump or some other MAGA-friendly candidate wins in 2024.
This is called Project 2025. It sounds very scary, but it's quite confusing.
Alyssa, you, when you were a White House deputy chief of staff, you had many, many responsibilities. One of those was you were in charge of presidential personnel, staffing the government, essentially.
Can you help me explain what it is the Republicans are trying to do here and why it'd be so bad? Just know that I'm about to embark on a nerd spiral, so you can just sit back. This is, first of all, these heritage people, they call their plan, it's actually packaged as like a coffee table book.
Just, I don't know, think about that for a minute. There's something about that that makes it even more pretentious and annoying.
But, okay, first, the U.S. government currently has about 4,000 political appointees.
These are people who switch from administration to administration, and we have about 488,000 civil servants who are known as FTEs, full-time equivalents. Okay, those are the people who keep the government going.
They don't change from administration to administration. I oversaw the political appointees.
That's how it should be. We were in the administration.
I oversaw the political appointees. The FTEs are basically our safety net.
They're the reason we have a smooth transition of government because they're the career employees with specific expertise that keeps the government running. And if you actually go to usajobs.gov, you can see the process that they have to go to to apply for a job.
What the right wants to do is return to the spoil system. This is what they want to do.
It was actually President Carter who reformed the civil service in an effort to end political bias, which had been a problem since the 1800s. The civil service is what the GOP has dubbed the deep state because they believe they stood in the way of Trump.
But to be honest, these people are meant to be the guardrails for all of us. This is what they do.
We all come into government. Most people haven't done it before.
They have the depth of knowledge that helps every administration be successful. So basically, what the GOP wants to do is bring in 50,000 people to eliminate the people I just told you about.
So in essence, I'm just going to make a real clear example. They want to be able to hire somebody to work at the USDA Forest Service who isn't required to know how to put out a forest fire.
That's what they want to do. Or like, they don't even have to know what a tree is.
It's fine. They just want to bring in all of these new people.
And this is the best part, buddy, as I went down the rabbit hole in this. The Heritage Foundation actually held a jobs fair for the government in waiting.
And do you know where they held the jobs fair? In a Fox News green room? Even better. It was at the Iowa State Fair.
They held their jobs fair at the Iowa State Fair because, buddy, bring your turkey leg and beer and come over and learn about working at Treasury. That's what they want to do.
Their government in waiting. And, buddy, they are putting so much effort into this.
And it is truly so stressful to me because at first, like when you get in the government, you meet the career employees, they might be a little judgy of you.

They're like, who are these political whippersnappers? And the truth is, you're like, who are these people who've been here for forever? And guess what? You fucking need them. America needs them.
We all need them. They're American heroes.
And this is such a tragic situation. I mean, to put it into just like some real world context from our lives.
Yeah. You and I, I think Favs was with us, were on the first bus of people who went from Barack Obama's inauguration, the moment he becomes president- I was already there.
I had to miss inauguration. You always forget this.
Oh, that's right. You always forget this.
Well, then you can speak to that because you walk in to the White House. Yeah.
And Obama became president during what we now know to have been an active terrorist plot. Right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Big deal. And the White House feels empty.
All the office, the Bush people are all gone. It is tumbleweed, tumbleweed through the hallways.
You think it's tumbleweed, right? In the offices that we're going to sit in, right? There's a little post-it note with your name on it. Your desk is empty other than some nice people put some pencils and pens there.
And there's a phone. And there's a post-it note on the computer with your temporary password.
Yep. Yep.
That's it. And that's it.
That's it. But then you go downstairs.
And you were like, who are all these people waiting in line to get coffee? And you realize it's all the people, the full-time national security professionals who've been there for years, who are monitoring the sit room to make sure that the country is protected and thought through and there is a continuity plan if something were to happen while we're there. Right.
And they're going to take the – and they want to get rid of those people. And the reason they want to get rid of them – and you have to think about this in the context of January 6th.
Yeah. The reason Trump could not pull off the things like seizing the voting machines, instituting martial law, various things he wanted to do.
The Justice Department was because there were career employees there who would not sign off on it, who threatened to resign in mass if he did these things. That's why he had such trouble with the Pentagon, because there were all these career military people who were not going to do what he wanted.
And so they want to get rid of those people, because that is the bulwark against the craziest things that the Republicans want to do. And then you have to put that in the context of the overall vision of right-wing government, which is, as Grover Norquist, the Republican anti-tax advocate once said, is shrink it down to the size you can drown it in a bathtub.
Because if you get rid of all these people, you can't do research on climate change. You can't implement the food stamp program.
Everything they want to get rid of is they want to break government so that people don't want government anymore. And that's what this is about.
I mean, one of their plans is to give employees at DHS power of law enforcement. Political appointees.
Everybody. A whole bunch of people.
Yeah. A whole bunch of people.
Just, you know what? You work here, you're now law enforcement. What? And there's no one to stop them.
There's no one to stop them. If Donald Trump wins or that other guy, Ramaswamy, they will do this.
They will absolutely do this. It is really, everyone should be really terrified.
This is truly terrifying. It's hard to explain to people, but I think you did an excellent job of explaining why it affects people's lives, right? And that's the thing we have to do during this campaign for a lot of people.
Yeah. Okay.
Alyssa, Donald Trump, the former president of the United States, with a hurricane hitting his home state of Florida, went on Instagram to offer a message to Floridians and frankly, all Americans. Let's take a listen.
Wow. My interview with Tucker Carlson has turned out to be the single most watched video and interview in the history of the world, I guess.
Such a great honor to have participated. 262 million views and counting more than doubling the longtime reigning champ, the Oprah Winfrey interview of Michael Jackson.
So I want to congratulate Tucker and I want to thank everyone. Thank you very much.
Alyssa, tough hit for Oprah, huh? How do you think she's handling this? You know what? I think she's doing great. You know why? I don't know what other people did, but I went back and watched the Oprah Michael Jackson interview.
What a fucking trip. I had totally forgotten about that.
1993 never felt so fresh. Alyssa, I decided to put this in the outline.
Yeah. Two and a half hours ago.
Yeah. In that time, you have interviewed a United States senator and you watched a 1983 interview with Michael Jackson.
I did. It was incredible.
Elizabeth Taylor was there. Buddy, you know that when you invite me to do the pod, I was prepped and ready to go by last night.
I had nothing but time on my hands this morning. So, yes, I watched the video, the interview of Oprah at Michael Jackson's house, Neverland Ranch.
That shit was wild. But also, I think you and I both know, like, as many people watch the Donald Trump interview is attended his inauguration.
Are you saying it was not the largest crowd to ever witness an inauguration in history as the soon to be Dancing with Stars contestant Sean Spicer said? I was just like, what is he doing? He's so pathetic. He's just so pathetic.
You have to, Like, what is he doing? He's so pathetic.

Like, he's just so pathetic.

Like, you have to, like, how does Melania even look at him?

But also, he's always so horny to, like, be with the elites.

Like, he had to say Oprah because secretly he wants Oprah to like him.

He wants Oprah to call him up and say, good job. And that's never going to happen because that interview is iconic.
I mean, it is. He has many times over the last seven to eight years mentioned the fact that Oprah used to be nice to him and now she's not.
Yeah. He also invited the Clintons to his wedding.
Just saying. He's had a real journey.
I don't want to play the role of fact checker, something I pointed myself to in last week's pod with Tommy. But to be clear, when Donald Trump says 262 million people watched his interview, that is not true.
No. I know.
I'm sorry. Yeah, it's true.
Oprah's record stands the test of time. With one extra view right over here.
Yes. Everyone's going to be shocked to hear this, but Elon Musk is playing a little fast and loose with the view count on Twitter.
What a Twitter view means is really is what we used to call an impression. All it means doesn't mean you watched the video.
It doesn't mean you started the video. It doesn't mean you paused on the video as you were squaring through Twitter feed.
It means it showed up in your feed. So if, for instance, you follow Donald Trump, you follow Tucker, some reporter you follow retweeted it, that counts as a view.
Some progressive person you followed quote tweeted to tell you how stupid Trump is, that counts as a view. The folks at Mashable did an estimate based on the video view count.
And that just means you watched some of it or started it. You don't have to watch all of it or even most of it.
That it was closer to like 12 or 14 million people, I think. And that was actually not only the, not the most watched video in history, it was not even Tucker Carlson's most watched interview, his interview with Andrew Tate, the accused sex trafficker and misogynist.
That one actually had more video views at the time than Trump. So the only reason I bring this up is because Trump's a nut and we should make fun of him.
But also I think there is like an object lesson here for progressives, which is Donald Trump did the Tucker Carlson interview because he's a shallow, spiteful man. He wanted to screw over Fox.
Like there's nothing more to tell Fox that he is mad at them than to do an interview with the person that Fox is currently in litigation for over violating his non-compete. But he also is doing something that is like, it's not intentionally strategic, but it's something that ends up happening so often that it is like a downstream strategic benefit of Trump's sort of crazy media style, which is Donald Trump believes that Tucker Carlson helps him become president.
Yeah. And therefore he takes his time and he lays hands on Tucker Carlson as a media figure.
Because Tucker Carlson went off to do this Twitter show. And if you really, has anyone even thought about Tucker Carlson since he launched his Twitter show? No, no one sees it.
No one cares about it. Also, can I just say, I think I'm a better interviewer than Tucker Carlson.
That was like a bad interview. I mean, he's terrible.
That was a bad interview. It's also why people don't have to like dunk on Trump.
Like we all hate him, but stop quote tweeting. It's just giving him more views.
Yes. You're giving him what he wants is your attention.
He doesn't care if your attention is good or bad. He just wants your attention.
But what Trump does by doing this interview is he helps make Tucker Carlson a more influential figure, gives him more followers, more viewers, bigger part of the conversation. And that is a lesson that Democrats up and down the ballot can learn from Trump, which is we should do the same thing for our media allies.
Right. It is why we it is why more politics.
It's why we love when politicians do interviews on Positive America or Hysteria. That's why Elijah and Ben make me beg people to smash the subscribe button on

positive America, YouTube channel, because that helps build up our following and make sure more people see our stuff. And so if you believe, if you think progressive media is, if you're a politician, you think progressive media is a net benefit for progressive causes and progressive politics, then you have to do more stuff with them.
That is my pitch for people to come on Pulse of America in hysteria.

That was well done.

Thank you.

I didn't totally see where it was going right at first.

Then I was like, oh, I get what he's doing.

It made me force people to listen to Donald Trump for 28 seconds, but hopefully there's

a payoff here.

Or Oprah and Michael Jackson.

That's right.

And you got to watch that interview.

Okay, when we come back, Alyssa talks to Senator Macy Arano.

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Restrictions apply. Look, we know things don't feel great right now, but we can equip ourselves for the unprecedented months ahead without letting the news overwhelm us.
Join us each week at Strict Scrutiny as we break down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by. We'll supplement your daily news

diet with a dose of necessary legal analysis and a healthy serving of our Real Housewives takes,

some pop music, and 90s throwbacks because we believe there's no better way to unwind

after an oral argument than by watching a stupid reality TV argument.

Subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts, and don't forget to check out full episodes on YouTube. Senator from Hawaii, Maisie Hirono, welcome to Pod Save America.
Good to be with you always. Aloha.
Aloha. We are a few weeks out from the fires that ravaged Maui, specifically in Lahaina and Kula.
We see the aftermath of Hurricane Edelia across the south. Mother Nature feels very pissed at us right now.
I saw that a recent brush fire, another one, albeit brief, caused an evacuation of Lahaina. Are the fires fully contained on the island at this point? The fires are contained 100% as far as I know in Lahaina, but everyone is ever watchful, you can imagine.
The fires have been contained as far as I know. What are the unique challenges of being an island state when it comes to recovering from a disaster like this? We are also a very tourist dependent state.
And when something like this happens, and people no longer come to our state is going to have a devastating impact on our economy and our ability to recover. And that is why the governor and the mayor of Maui County is asking people to help with the economic recovery by continuing to visit not Lahaina, but the other parts of Maui, being very sensitive to the fact that there is a lot of grieving and loss being experienced by the people of Maui.
But still, the recovery is going to take time and resources, and part of that are tourists who will come in and support the economic recovery of Maui. Again, being very sensitive to what we are going through.
Are there other ways that people traveling to Maui can be conscientious tourists, other than just not going to Lahaina? Are there ways that they can help? Well, they can certainly go to a website that I've been suggesting people go to. It's called hawaiicommunityfoundation.org.
And they have set up a special fund for Maui recovery. hawaiicommunityfoundation.org, all not underscore, just type that in.
And they are accepting contributions from literally all over the country and the world. There are a lot of people who hold Hawaii and Maui dear to their hearts.
And so those kinds of contributions are really, really important right now. And I have been following them as well, Senator, and they have been very transparent about how much money they're getting and what they're giving away and to whom.
So they have really been doing heroic work. Yes.
On Maui, there are still 300 people reportedly missing. Several news reports are saying the mayor of Maui was derelict in his

duties and didn't call the state for backup. Are you confident that if people made catastrophic

mistakes that they'll be held accountable? I think that that is all going to reveal itself

as we continue to recover. And as you probably know, there are multiple lawsuits.
The county

has already filed a lawsuit against the electric company. Electric company will probably countersue.
Then there are private suits going on. So all of that kind of information will reveal itself.
And there will be a lot of finger pointing, I'm sure. But at the same time, the recovery is going to require time, resources, and really the recovery should reflect the values and the voices of the people of Lahaina in particular.

It is not about, as the president said yesterday, it is not about the federal government or anybody else swooping in and saying, here's what you all are going to do.

Here's what Lahaina is going to look like.

No, it's going to be done very much reflecting the values and voices of the people there. To that point, I think for a lot of folks, it's hard to imagine a drought on an island.
But Maui was in fact experiencing a drought and the fires were largely fed by non-native plants. Something I think it's really important for our listeners to know.
Loads of plants were brought onto the island in the late 1700s and 1800s like guinea grass for purposes they no longer serve like feeding cows. Colonists turned from cattle farming to other forms of agriculture, but left these grasses that grow up to six inches in a day.
They're both drought resistant and decompose less quickly, making them essentially kindling in a situation like this. Will recovery efforts include addressing issues like these invasive species that make your lands more vulnerable to fires? Of course.
There are other areas of Hawaii that are vulnerable. Hawaii has wildfires just like any other state.
And the numbers of acres percentage wise is akin to other states. But of course, this was the most devastating in loss of life and property in an entire town, burned to the ground, a very historic town.
And yes, so the conditions that led to this disaster will need to be investigated, including the presence of invasive grasses that needed to be cut back. There are other places where these invasive grasses have grown, and we need to make sure that the management of the lands, the fallow lands, is part of our efforts to prevent and mitigate these kinds of disasters.
This morning, some news broke. You can always count on Oprah to make a splash.
This morning, news broke that Oprah and The Rock have launched an assistance fund called the People's Fund of Maui. They donated $10 million to kick it off and say every cent will go to the people of Maui.
According to the press release, residents 18 and over who live in the affected area and who were displaced by the fires will be eligible to receive $1,200 a month to help through the recovery period. Maisie, do you think we're at a point now where climate disasters are so frequent that we're going to have to rely on private citizens to provide relief for survivors? I'm really glad that private citizens, particularly I would say, of the people of Maui.
When I was visiting the shelters, it was very clear all the people were there volunteering, including high school kids who were volunteering. But this is a joint effort by government.
We have to acknowledge, we, our country, has to acknowledge, I would say, the connection between global warming, climate change, and the frequency and how damaging all of these disasters are. So hurricanes and flooding and wildfires, these in my view, and the view of scientists are connected to global warming.
And we need to acknowledge that and as a country deal with it. And that is why the Inflation Reduction Act has $300 billion to deal with global warming and climate change.
But we know that there are some states where you can't even use the words climate change. Well, hey, everybody, wake up, because this is a time for all of us in a bipartisan way to say that we are doing things in our globe that is really setting the stage for these kinds of global climate damaging events to continue to happen.
And we need to deal with it in a way that will prevent and mitigate global warming. You touched on this a little bit ago, but we have been hearing stories about unsavory developers and real estate agents trolling to buy up land.
Do you have confidence that the people in Maui will be provided with the means to keep the land they own and rebuild the homes that may have been destroyed? I believe that there will be ways that especially at the county level, there may be a moratorium on building or sales of land. And whether that will be challenged, I'm not sure.
But there is a general, I would say, consensus and support. This is no time for people to come flocking in and trying to buy up the land that's in Lahaina.
This is not the time for any of that kind of activity to be happening. I believe that there is a moratorium on this kind of activity.
I certainly hope so. Let's talk a little bit more about giving and how people can help.
I have focused my giving toward the Maui Humane Society. I am wearing their t-shirt today.
Since in Hawaii, pets are considered part of the Ohana, the family. They're doing incredible work.
Are there other organizations? We already talked about the Hawaii Community Foundation. Are there other organizations you would love our listeners to be aware of and to support? If you go to Hawaii Community Foundation, there is a list of all of the organizations.
They're trusted organizations that the money that goes into this special fund through the Hawaii Community Organization. Please check through that to see if the Humane Society is among them.
Or you can probably just go to Humane Society Maui and scroll through. But make sure that these are legitimate organizations that are accepting these funds.

And we will make sure to link to these organizations in our show notes so people can just click

over and support.

And also, I just want to say that for me, growing up, we always went to Maui in the

winter and our favorite thing was coconut syrup.

So I have ordered loads of coconut syrup to help support businesses. So if you are near me, you will be getting coconut syrup soon.

Well, there you go. Thank you.
Maisie, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to

talk to us today. Mahalo.
And thank everyone who cares about Hawaii to help our recovery. Mahalo

no Iloa. Thanks for the focus.
It's going to take a long time for us to recover from something

as devastating as this. It's so heartbreaking.
It's so heartbreaking just watching. And I really feel it's terrifying to hear people talk about the conspiracy theories of what they think happened.
So I really wanted to get you on today to be able to kind of like. Yes, we need to push back and focus our energies and what's really going to help.

And that is not about,

you know, there's going to be,

as Kevin McCarthy,

he wants to do an investigation

to the federal response.

Politicizing this tragedy

is not what we need.

Nope.

At the moment or any time, frankly.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Hawaii Community Foundation dot org. ahead without letting the news overwhelm us.
Join us each week at Strict Scrutiny as we break down the cases that will decide the rules we all have to live by. We'll supplement your daily news

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some pop music, and 90s throwbacks because we believe there's no better way to unwind

after an oral argument than by watching a stupid reality TV argument.

Subscribe to Strict Scrutiny wherever you get your podcasts,

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All right, before we go, Alyssa and I wanted to answer a few questions submitted from the Friends of the Pod community on Discord. If you love Pod Save America, if you love Crooked Media, if you want more content, you want ad-free episodes of Pod Save America, if you just want to be part of a community of people who are working together to defeat MAGA Republicans and save our democracy,

particularly an online community that Elon Musk is banned from, you should go to crooked.com slash friends and join the Friends of the Pod subscription community. I promise you,

if you like what you're listening to here, you will love that. And these questions were

submitted by people as part of that community. Alyssa, our first question is from Mont Govern,

who asks, in light of McConnell's apparent health issues, if he does retire in the near future, who do you think would replace him as the party's leader, and what would that mean for the Senate? Thune, right? John Thune. Wouldn't Thune replace him? There is a battle between three Johns.
John Thune, John Cornyn, John Barrasso, who I swear is a real person in the Senate of Miami. But John Thune, don't tell anyone.
John Thune's the most handsome, though. Alyssa.
What? You were speaking to someone who- I know. Spent two years of their life running campaigns against John Thune.
I didn't say that he was smart or capable. I don't think any of the three of them are, but he's the most handsome.
Would you say Mitch McConnell was a successful Republican leader? In all the ways we hate, but would you say he was successful? I mean, yeah, probably. Would you say he's handsome? Definitely not.
Okay. Okay.
Just some context here for people who may not have seen. Mitch McConnell, earlier this year, had a bad fall.
He was absent from the Senate for weeks. He was very mysterious about what caused the fall or how he was dealing with it.
He came back to the Senate. During a press availability a month or so ago, he froze up.
And during that, it had a clear health issue while speaking to the press and had to be escorted away from the microphones by the three Johns I just referenced. And then just yesterday on Wednesday, he was in Kentucky, he had a similar incident where he was asked a question about running for reelection and then just froze.
He did not speak. An aide had to come up and talk to him.
Eventually had to be sort of taken away from the microphone. McConnell staff has told no one anything about what is happening, what the issue is.
They haven't had a doctor talk to anyone. And so there's real questions about not just whether McConnell will run for re-election in a few years, but whether he can continue to be Senate leader or even senator from Kentucky right now.
And you were probably right. So the order here is that Thune is the number two in the Senate.
Cornyn has been in Senate leadership for a long time. He's sort of a little bit more of a political person than Thune is.
He ran the NRSC. He's a little more of a MAGA media personality.
I could tell you nothing about John Barrasso. Like at all.
I don't know that anyone could either. And I appreciate that you could tell me a little something about the second John.
But the reason I said that John Thune should do it because he's the most handsome is because that's all I know about any of the three of them. John Thune, as I mentioned, I worked on two Senate campaigns against him.
We won the first one, lost the second one. He is an able politician.
I would say he is not a deep thinker, would be a fair way to say it. He certainly was not strategic like McConnell, but he would probably be a better messenger if he were to become the leader of the Senate.
Like McConnell is never on television. Ever.
I mean, he- Is utterly un-telegenic. And he speaks, like every McConnell interview, his whole career has been basically like someone reading the Almanac of American politics with marbles in their mouth.
Like you just can't understand the words.

And when you can understand the words, it's in Senate jargon.

It's terrible.

Thune is a good messenger and probably better for that.

Cornyn is really kind of a gross, disgusting individual in his politics, but also a smoother messenger.

And like I said, if John Barrasso walked in this room right now, I wouldn't recognize him.

So maybe he's probably not the one who's going to win.

But the change in the Senate would probably be same politics, less able execution than McConnell had. All right.
I buy it. I buy it.
Okay. Next question.
Listen, this one is definitely right up your alley. MG asks, who is the person in the White House in charge of all the flags? Like, is there a room full of every country's flag and they just pull it out during state visits? Do you send along flags before international visits? MG wants the flag scoop and also wants to know if this person in charge of the flags retires, can they apply for the job? Well, as a matter of fact, flags are handled by the Visits Division at the State Department, and they work in coordination with the White House Military Office

when the visit is at the White House.

And since MG is very stoked on flags, I will add this little nugget,

which is that the lowering of the flag over the White House

is a function of the White House Staff Secretary's Office,

and they actually draft a proclamation for the president to sign that determines how long the flag will be at half mast. Is there a room with the flags? I mean, they're not kept in a bunker, so there's a room somewhere with flags.
Where are the state flags? Like the United States of America? Yeah, the 50 states, because aren't those always put up all the time? Why are you trying to make me look like an asshole who doesn't know anything? I don't know where the fucking state flags are kept. I'm just kidding.
I am fairly confident in saying that they are kept in the White House military office. Okay.
That's a good answer. Thank you.
All right. Katrenia asks, people make fun of the West Wing for its rosy portrayal of an idealistic White House team, but surely you had a few West Wing moments over the years.
What's one you remember? What's one you remember? Mine's not that rosy, but I'll give it to you anyway because it was quite funny. Mine's funny.
Mine's not rosy. Mine's just funny too.
In the, I remember early, early days of White House. We'd only been there maybe like a month or so.
And for those who don't know, on the weekends, White House staff can get, when the president is not working in the West Wing, White House staff can give family, friends, a private tour of the West Wing, where you can see the Oval Office behind an open stanchion and the cabinet room and all this other stuff. And they can happen after hours during the week and on Saturdays and Sundays.
And particularly in the early days when a Republican, right after a Republican had been in the White House for eight years, the White House was packed, particularly there was so much excitement over Obama being president. The White House was packed with people giving tours.
And it was like, there was like traffic on Saturdays and Sundays, like trying to get to your office because there were so many people doing tours. And I was stuck walking up the steps from the basement of the West Wing where you would get coffee and breakfast.

And visit me.

And visit me.

And visit you, yes.

And so I had gone and got breakfast and I was headed up to my office and I was behind a family getting a West Wing tour from a staffer.

And one of the people on the tour says, you know, this looks nothing like the TV show The West Wing, which is true. It does not.
But at the exact moment she said that, for reasons that are still hard to explain, around the corner comes Rob Lowe. No! Like, just as she says it.
No, Sam Seaborn! It was wild. Yeah, he had been in the White House for a meeting on environmental policy, I think, with our climate change people.
But it was just like exact perfect time. And he was just like, so that's what you think, huh? Or something like that.
And they just like jaws dropped everywhere. Buddy, that's an amazing story.
I actually never knew that. I didn't know that story.
One day I'll tell the story about when the entire cast of True Blood was trapped outside of the White House trying to get on a tour on the day Ben Watten was killed. Because everyone was in town for the correspondence dinner.
Yeah, that's right. Right.
Anywho, what's your- Okay, so my story is about the two of us, and I bet you won't remember it, but I, every time I'm like a little down in the dumps or something, I will think about this. You and I, it was, I don't know what year it was, but our offices were across from each other, right? Next to oval.
And you know, you and I, we would always pop into the other person's office. That was January 2013 until March of 2014.
Okay. So we were across the hall from each other and I'm pretty sure it was, well, you know how my feet would always get hot.
And so I would not have my shoes on in the West Wing when I thought no one was paying attention. So I popped over to your office to chat and the door was open.
And as I'm standing there barefoot in your office, Bibi Netanyahu, I'm pretty sure it was Bibi Netanyahu and POTUS walk by and POTUS, who like didn't always stop and be like, this is Alyssa and Dan, stopped and immediately looked in and saw my feet and gave me the face. It's like, Jesus fucking Christ, Alyssa.
And I was just standing there in your office and I was like, shrug emoji, nothing I can do now. Anyway, it's like, how can you, I don't like that doesn't, it's like, it was the weirdest, funniest thing.
And I'll always remember it because you were also quite embarrassed. I mean, in fairness, it's Brock Obama's fault.
He knew all of us when he, for many years before he hired us to the white, to these jobs in the white house. So no one should have expected anything more from me.
Okay. Utterly professional, got the job done, but often barefoot.
All right. Last question.
Jen Woda asks, what's the best advice you've given each other? Okay. So I'm going to go first because Pfeiffer has given me two hugely important pieces of advice that I utilize weekly.
Okay. So the first one was I was in my office and I was like real bummed out and i wish the reason i love to tell this is because i think that like people who listen to the pod think of you in a very specific way and i need them to see this side of you and this is not enough it's not a 90210 story so you come in and you're like alice buddy what's wrong I'm like, and I tell you a story about someone who has really let me down.
And you're like, buddy, okay. I say this with love.
And I was like, uh-oh. You're like, you have to stop being constantly disappointed by people who will only disappoint you.
And it was like a light bulb went off in my head because that is literally an entire cornerstone of my personality is being disappointed by people who are only in my life to disappoint me. So that was the first one.
Here's the other one. Someone new, you might remember this one.
Someone new had joined us in the West Wing and I went into your office and I was like, I don't know about this one. And you're like, buddy, listen, you always dislike somebody before you like them.
In two weeks, you're going to be cackling in your office together and I will be right. And you were right.
And so now when I go through life and I meet someone And I'm like, what a fucking asshole. I'm like, Alyssa, hold your fire.
Pfeiffer might be right here. And nine times out of 10, you are correct.
So you have really just lifted burdens off of my brain. I know exactly who you're talking about those instances.
And I feel like that advice worked well in both cases. It did.
And in life. And so I just, you know, it's been, I don't know how many years we've been friends, but since you gave me that advice, I think about it routinely.
We've been friends for 16 years, Alyssa. And I look better than when we met.
That is a fact. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much. Leaving government does wonders for your skin.
I don't know that I could single out a single piece of advice you gave me because there is no question in my mind that I would not have- Because you're a goldfish? Survived. Because you're a goldfish.
Like what is that? It means you have no memory. It means you have no memory.
Yes. No, because there's no way I would have made it through the White House, a whole bunch of like really challenging periods of my life without you there.
There's no question about that.

But the one most, I mean, and you literally saved my life once by sending me to the hospital

during a medical emergency and getting me top-notch medical care from someone who's

now a right-wing microchongruist.

Absolute maniac.

But at the time, that did save my life.

But obviously the most impactful and valuable piece of advice you gave me is that you told me to date my wife.

I did.

You were a full endorseee.

You encouraged me.

So without that, my life would be very different, much sadder.

And so I couldn't be more lucky to have you have done that. So thank you.
See, we had to give the people what they want. I know I don't have to tell you guys this, but everyone needs more Alyssa Mastermonico in their life.
So be sure to check out her podcast, Hysteria, where she and co-host Erin Ryan break down the stories that affect women's lives. Talking about everything from reproductive rights to rom-coms.
New episodes drop every Thursday. Make sure to tune into Hysteria wherever you get your podcasts.
Pod Save America is going back on the road. Tickets to our live shows this fall and winter are available now.
There are no off years in politics, and with so many important state elections this year, 2023, we're excited to be stopping by Battleground States to help break down the news and help you find ways to make an impact. Join us for live shows in cities like Louisville, San Diego, San Jose, Washington, D.C., and New Orleans.
Get your tickets now at crooked.com slash events. Alyssa, thanks for joining us today.
Thank you to Senator Hirono. We will talk to everyone next week.
Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive producer is Michael Martinez.
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