Why the Libs ditched net zero

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Speaker 4 Today the Australian people have voted for Australian values.

Speaker 6 Government is always formed in a sensible centre but our Liberal Party reflects a range of views.

Speaker 5 Politics is the brutal game of arithmetic but no one's going to vote for you don't stare at something.

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Speaker 4 Hello and welcome to the party room. I'm Patricia Carvallis joining you from Rungery Country in Melbourne.

Speaker 1 And I'm Mel Clark on Nunnawal Country here in Canberra at Parliament House filling in for Fran Kelly. And what a week it is.
I know Fran Kelly would love to see how this week has played out.

Speaker 4 She should be losing her mind.

Speaker 1 Because this has been the moment that the Liberal Party has been building up to ever since the election.

Speaker 1 It's been waiting for its reckoning on the policy on emissions reduction, on climate change, on net zero.

Speaker 1 Yesterday was the party room meeting. Today, on Thursday, the shadow ministry has endorsed a policy.

Speaker 6 Under the Liberal Party, affordable and reliable energy will come first.

Speaker 6 Our emissions reduction goals will never come at the expense of Australian families. To keep faith with that commitment, the Liberal Party will remove a net zero target from our policy.

Speaker 6 And if elected, we will remove the 43% 2030 target and its net zero by 2050 target from the policy.

Speaker 1 I'm not even sure where to begin in describing this policy, PK, but look, we're going to talk through it. We're going to talk about the Liberals dumping the net zero targets.

Speaker 1 We're going to look at what this means for the Conservatives and the moderates in the party, how this has played out.

Speaker 1 We're going to look at what it means for the joint coalition position with the nationals and of course what it means for Susan Lee's leadership.

Speaker 1 And given how critical this policy is to our nation's environmental and economic position, we're going to look at what it might mean. as a policy proposition as well.

Speaker 1 And look, I think we should also touch on the historic security deal that's been signed, well, that will be signed between Indonesia and Australia that was agreed between Anthony Albanese and Praboo Subianto today as well.

Speaker 1 So lots to get through, Pik.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I mean, like, just sort of pulling back here,

Speaker 4 we have seen, I think, over the last week, the most seismic, watershed differentiation from the Liberal Party that I think we've seen for a long time. Probably, I think, fair to say since...

Speaker 4 Tony Abbott's

Speaker 4 election and his kind of election as the leader of the Liberal Party when he came through the middle in 2009 and everything changed and ultimately of course he did win in a landslide a couple of elections later and became Prime Minister.

Speaker 4 That's how significant I think this is for the Liberal Party.

Speaker 4 We had a marathon party room meeting that led to a dominant view that the net zero target should be dumped and now we've got this really significant moment. It's been a massive week.

Speaker 4 Michelle Grattan is chief political correspondent for the conversation and professorial fellow at Canberra University. She's with us.
First hot take. Welcome to the party room, Michelle.
Wow. Wow.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. And it's not over yet because, of course, this has to be negotiated with the Nationals.

Speaker 2 And then there's a joint party meeting held virtually on Sunday for those who haven't had enough yet. And

Speaker 2 then it's all done and dusted. So still a bit of a way to go.

Speaker 2 but I would imagine, given the Liberals have, as you say, made this really, really big decision, it does land them very close to the Nationals and one would think things would go relatively

Speaker 2 to copy book predictions from now on.

Speaker 4 Oh, I think that's right. I think, you know, that's as far as I can see.

Speaker 4 I think if you're searching for some difference between the Liberal Party's policy right now and the nationals policy, you will be looking for lots of little details that I think are almost irrelevant.

Speaker 4 So I want to put this bit to you as we go through all the detail, Michelle. So they say they're abandoning net zero by 2050.

Speaker 4 They are staying in Paris, but this bit, which I think is a little, I don't know, like a little schmacko, you know, dogs that get a little treat for the moderates, they would welcome it if it occurred.

Speaker 4 So if, guys, somehow net zero by 2050 just happened by osmosis or by some kind of quirk, they wouldn't be upset about it. What on earth was that addition, Michelle? Like that has just broken my brain.

Speaker 4 Do they really think the public's going to think that that actually is a commitment to something?

Speaker 2 That was a fig leaf to the moderates.

Speaker 2 Nothing more than that. And I think the public will

Speaker 2 take no notice of it at all. But the moderates, of course, had an overwhelming defeat in the party room yesterday.

Speaker 2 Before that, there'd been some vague hints that they might, in fact, step down or some people might step down from the front bench.

Speaker 2 Susan Lee was pretty desperate to keep everything together, and so you get that fig leaf.

Speaker 2 It means nothing.

Speaker 1 Can I just describe where the Liberal Party has landed here? here?

Speaker 1 Instead of making a decision on emissions reduction and energy policy, the Liberals have agreed to every request that has come through the Liberal Party party room to some degree, have landed with a grab bag of promises, many of them completely contradicting each other.

Speaker 1 And this is the perfect example. We're going to

Speaker 1 dump net zero as a commitment.

Speaker 1 We're going to walk away from the 2030-2035 targets that have been set, even though we're locked locked in under international treaty, under agreement with Paris, but we're staying in Paris, but we're ignoring Paris, so we're both dumping the policy and staying in Paris where the policy requires that we're had.

Speaker 1 This is the example of what has happened. Everyone's trying to be accommodated, so they've ended up with a nonsensical policy that doesn't actually make sense.

Speaker 1 And we saw that in Susan Lee's press conference when she was asked to explain that contradiction and her answer to that was, well, I'm not going to get talk about some detail on an international agreement, I'm not going to let that get in the way of what I'm doing domestically.

Speaker 1 And then, when asked again a second time, right at the end of her press conference about this contradiction, she said, Well, if the UN doesn't like it, I can deal with that.

Speaker 1 So, there's inherent contradictions in this policy. They haven't actually made a decision, they've given everyone a fig leaf,

Speaker 1 and the disagreement about what we actually want to do within the party still remains.

Speaker 2 Well, I think that

Speaker 2 what does come through is that this is an overwhelming victory for the Conservatives in the party. Now, as Mel says,

Speaker 2 it's resulted in a very, very messy and contradictory outcome.

Speaker 2 And the idea of remaining in Paris but going backwards on Australian targets and indeed cancelling Australian targets really doesn't fit within Paris at all.

Speaker 2 But I suppose the point is, the bottom line is that Susan Lee won't have to cope with that problem because the chances of her being Prime Minister, I think, are nil.

Speaker 4 Well, let's go to that because I think we've just naturally gone to the politics by you saying that.

Speaker 4 The chances of her being Prime Minister are close to nil. Big call, but I absolutely agree with you.
Why is this so damaging for Susan Lee, Michelle?

Speaker 4 Like, why is this because in my view, what I witnessed of this woman who said she was bringing the party to the sensible center when she got elected, capitulating as she has, talking about, you know, net zero, it's all gone, and standing up and saying that really created a vulnerability for her in a weird kind of way because she looks like she stands for nothing.

Speaker 2 Well, absolutely. She has followed, not led, the party.

Speaker 2 And in blunt terms, quite apart from that and her not being able to project any authority in this party, the numbers are just against her. The party is...

Speaker 2 totally dominated by the Conservatives, the Parliamentary Party, let alone the party outside Parliament.

Speaker 2 And while the extra-parliamentary party doesn't have formal power, it has quite a lot these days of informal power.

Speaker 2 And if you talk to the Liberal politicians, they will tell you the pressure they've been under from their branch members over this net zero issue.

Speaker 2 It's become a sort of religion that this must be dumped. And Susan Lee has just been run over in this rush to get rid of it.

Speaker 1 Can we look at the dynamics that are going on in the Liberal Party here? Because we have the Conservatives who've clearly had a victory out of this process.

Speaker 1 They have managed to muster more numbers to their side if the tallies coming out of the meeting yesterday are anything to go by. They have organised in a more coordinated fashion than the moderates.

Speaker 1 The moderates from what I can tell at this point seem quite divided.

Speaker 1 There are some moderates who feel that Susan Lee has been dudded by potential Conservative challenges, that she hasn't been given the space that she needed to try and arrive at a sensible policy position, and that she has been undermined all the way along.

Speaker 1 There are others in the moderates who were frustrated and feel like they were misled when they

Speaker 1 supported Susan Lee in the leadership because they thought she would be able to deliver an outcome that was acceptable, that would stick with net zero, that would have some level of ambition on climate action.

Speaker 1 So I think what we've seen out of the last two days is the Conservatives on on the ascendancy, the moderates defeated and divided.

Speaker 1 And PK, I think that leaves us now with a question of where the numbers lie.

Speaker 1 Because when it comes to leadership, the numbers on net zero for and against don't exactly line up with Susan Lee for and against. But there's clearly a momentum shift here, right?

Speaker 4 Huge momentum shift. I'm glad you've taken it to that.
I think it's really important to mention.

Speaker 4 I felt like we watched Susan Lee as a weakened leader standing up there, trying to look tough, trying to speak as if this policy process has come up with this brilliant policy conclusion when she has clearly let down the moderates who locked in behind her, but equally showed that she doesn't have, well, the numbers.

Speaker 4 I think her leadership is terminal, to be honest. I don't know how she can lead the party with this kind of policy and lack the conviction that comes with it.

Speaker 4 If they have landed with this policy, my view view is that a sort of, you know, you do actually, in a weird way, need someone like Andrew Hastie who fights the good fight right to the sort of on till he's, you know, burning down the barricades with this policy.

Speaker 4 Like, Michelle, I just think it's a mismatch, isn't it? Like, how do you have this leader arguing this policy when she kind of probably, we think,

Speaker 4 maybe doesn't even agree with it. And even if she does, it's rather half-hearted.

Speaker 2 Well, she certainly embraced this policy to try and protect and preserve her leadership but I think that

Speaker 2 even before this week it was pretty clear that she wasn't going to last that long. It's just really a matter of time.

Speaker 2 I think that the

Speaker 2 people who want to bring her down don't exactly want to bring her down just now. It's inconvenient.

Speaker 2 It looks as though they haven't given the first female leader of the party a chance but they are determined to bring her down and certainly i think that will happen uh next year there's little doubt about that now when you talk about andrew hastie i think that's quite interesting because

Speaker 2 Although we're obsessed this week with net zero, the political battle is about a lot more than climate policy, frankly.

Speaker 2 The Liberals will alienate key segments of the population, women, young people, people in teal electorates with this policy.

Speaker 2 But we won't be only talking about climate policy in the next couple of years.

Speaker 2 And I think it would be a bold move, frankly,

Speaker 2 to put in Andrew Hastie and expect that he would in fact be able to carry an effective debate on behalf of the opposition across a wide range of policies.

Speaker 1 I think there's certainly a lot of dynamic at play there when it comes to the leadership, and I think that's going to be tested again when it comes to the negotiations that will now happen with the Nationals.

Speaker 1 There's some key alignments between what the Liberals have talked about today and what the Nationals decided a couple of weeks ago. And I think it's worth drilling into that a little bit.

Speaker 4 Drill, baby, drill.

Speaker 1 So appropriate, PK, actually, here.

Speaker 4 Thank you for noticing that.

Speaker 1 Look, amongst the discussion of targets, we're going to dump targets, we're not going to have formal targets, we'll just look to reduce year by year, which is what the coalition is saying, the policies that sit behind that are quite a grab bag of ideas.

Speaker 1 So they are saying that the current system of what's called the capacity investment scheme, which is where there is support for

Speaker 1 energy sources that will help feed into the grid and help stability in the grid.

Speaker 1 The coalition wants to put a pause on all of that and then restart it, allowing any technology to be a part of it with a specific attention to increasing the role of baseload power delivered by coal and gas.

Speaker 1 Dantean was pressed on this and he was very clear that he was willing to have the federal government financially support the development of new coal-fired power stations.

Speaker 1 He talked about extending the lifespans of existing coal-fired stations which is already happening in some states but a lot of them are really on their last legs and intend to close in the next 10 years.

Speaker 1 He's saying they will continue to try and stretch that out.

Speaker 1 He said the safeguard mechanism which is currently the scheme by which the biggest heavy industrial polluters are required each year to gradually reduce their emissions and there's a trading system that allows them to do that.

Speaker 1 He says they're just going to make that voluntary, no hard requirement to mandate them to reduce their emissions.

Speaker 1 And somehow this is going to lead to a position where energy prices are lower and emissions will reduce every year. But everything that's been put in place to reduce emissions is being removed.

Speaker 1 I can't quite square that circle, PK.

Speaker 4 Well, I haven't squared it, so if you haven't squared it, I can promise you, Mady, I have not squared it.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I don't think it's plausible, arguable, believable.

Speaker 4 I think they've just handed Labour, and I'm not saying Labor doesn't have issues with power prices and like, I still think they have some complex issues, but I do think they've handed them a pretty easy campaign to run because of the absolute stripping down of all this architecture.

Speaker 4 And one other angle that I want to throw at you, and then Michelle, of course, we want to hear so much from you, but is investment certainty. Like, what? Like, how is this country meant to run?

Speaker 4 Like, how do we, how do we actually give business certainty with this level of mismatch? Am I crazy or like have I missed something about the way investment works?

Speaker 1 Michelle, what do you think? I mean, the business community made it pretty clear they were fine with a net zero target and that certainty meant more than argument over the details.

Speaker 1 So, how is the business community going to be?

Speaker 2 I think this is, of course, very bad for investment certainty. And that, though, works not just against the coalition, but it also works against Labour.

Speaker 2 Now, we've said that the Coalition is a very long, long way from power, but nevertheless, investors might think, well, given this argument that's going on and given the coalition's policy, we'll just not take the chance at all on especially any marginal investments.

Speaker 2 So that works badly for the country as a whole from now.

Speaker 1 I just want to give a generous assessment of how you might best try and interpret the Liberals' policy here. So let's go with the Dantean plan of we're going to return to coal-fired baseload power.

Speaker 1 We're willing to have government investment in that. Now the existing coal-fired power stations are going to phase out over the next 10 years.

Speaker 1 The opposition

Speaker 1 at the very best could come back into power in two and a half years time.

Speaker 1 Pretty unlikely given their margin, but let's go with the optimistic view for the Liberals that they can get back in power at the next election.

Speaker 1 They want to, in the space of seven and a half years,

Speaker 1 not only replace the existing coal-fired power with brand new power stations, plus more

Speaker 1 in eight and a half years. We can't even build one snowy 2.0 tunnel in 10 years.

Speaker 1 There's not going to be the timeframe, even if you were to fully support, you know, forget about how much coal we'll emit, not worried about that.

Speaker 1 Forget about the investments made to switch the grid to renewables, forget about the investment millions of households have made in rooftop solar that you have to turn off if you want bigger baseload power.

Speaker 1 We go with this policy of more baseload coal-fired power stations. You literally won't be able to build it in time to deal with the existing system going out.

Speaker 1 Something else is going to have to be built in the meantime, or you will have blackouts.

Speaker 1 So, even on sheer logistics, if you take out any environmental factors, the cost factors, purely on the ticking of the clock, this policy isn't going to work.

Speaker 2 But even with government aid, investors are not going to go these days for coal-fired power stations. They're just, it's something of the past.

Speaker 2 Keeping the existing ones going is one thing, but going into new ones is completely another.

Speaker 4 And so we are now in this kind of really bizarre world where we've got the Liberal Party going into a political cycle saying saying that essentially they're going to have more coal in the system in a world that's still, I'm not saying there haven't been issues, yes, the US has pulled out of Paris, you know, there are more complex issues than there were a few years ago, but in a world, Michelle, where we are decarbonising.

Speaker 4 How does that work?

Speaker 2 I think another point that's interesting in all this is they didn't have to have this discussion, this decision at all. We're talking about 2050.
2050 is a whole generation on.

Speaker 2 Now many people, including people in Labour, think that we won't get to net zero by 2050, but they could have just left the target there and avoided this whole issue.

Speaker 2 And I think

Speaker 2 that it's really important

Speaker 2 not just the nitty-gritty of this policy, but the signals they have sent to key parts of the electorate that they need to win the young people the the women the people in teal seats and they've thrown away the opportunity to capture those people or substantially thrown it away with an argument that they didn't need to have at this point

Speaker 4 and yet they've had it because of the passions of their base which is the point we were kind of harbouring like going on about before so let's talk about metropolitan australia michelle a place i know very well as a melburnian we're talking the suburbs of sydney and melbourne where guess what there are more and more gen z and millennial well millennials are very entrenched now but more gen z voters coming on next election let me tell you my daughter who's 16 will be voting in i cannot believe i'm that old but it's true she will be voting let me tell you, I don't know how she's going to vote, and she's actually very secretive about such things, but I will tell you this.

Speaker 4 That kid has learnt about climate change since she was born. Born, not from me, but her entire life has been entrenched in arguments about the planet warming, about the dangers of that.

Speaker 4 It is entrenched in her brain, Michelle. So if she is just one of the many that are joining the hordes on the electoral roll with that worldview, that that matters enormously.
How does that work?

Speaker 4 How do they capture the seats? How does someone like Tim Wilson win back the seat of Goldstein, which he's only won by a small number of votes?

Speaker 2 Well, I was going to mention him because I've thought he sounded slightly panicked over the last couple of days and he warned against the Liberals becoming Nationals light.

Speaker 1 We face a choice.

Speaker 7 We can stand up to be a Liberal Party and fight for the future of this country.

Speaker 7 There's an alternative choice, which is we just end up being a National Party light, or we can define the future of this country.

Speaker 2 Well, they've become nationals and not all that light

Speaker 2 for that matter. So I just think that they are completely handicapping themselves, worse than handicapping themselves, in those sorts of seats in the urban areas.
They've got hardly any urban seats.

Speaker 2 Anyway, they can't win power or even get a respectable number of seats in the House of Representatives short of power without getting into those urban areas and this signal is just so strong and so bad for them.

Speaker 4 So here we are Susan Lee announcing what I think is just

Speaker 4 a brain-breaking policy that has enormous implications. Michelle, one other thing.
She's promised, she has, she said it, that energy prices will be absolutely 100% lower under the coalition.

Speaker 6 I can look Australians in the eye and say that prices will always be more affordable under us.

Speaker 6 And I might, I'm sure I don't have to remind them that for two elections, Anthony Albanese stood there, pointed to graphs, waved things around, and said, life will be cheaper under me, and electricity prices would come down by $275.

Speaker 4 Oh, when I heard that.

Speaker 4 I thought

Speaker 4 it's $513. You know, and then she mocked Labor for promising them bill relief.
Fair enough, you know, fair cop, but Michelle,

Speaker 4 are we kidding? Like, given the points

Speaker 4 that Mel has made about timeframes and even if they wanted their strategy to work and also the cost of coal and all of that shenanigans and detail, what is she doing?

Speaker 4 Is it just that she knows she's not going to be?

Speaker 2 I was a bit reminded by the Liberals years ago always saying interest rates will be lower under us than under Labor. It's a very vague sort of promise.

Speaker 2 She can't put any number on it and of course it's a ridiculous promise to make.

Speaker 2 And of course the lesson that Labor learned in the 2022 election

Speaker 2 has obviously not been learned by the Liberals.

Speaker 1 And can I just say on this point, the cost factor is a really interesting one because I don't think either party, either Labor or the coalition, is really being upfront with the fact that the electricity grid is undergoing a massive transformation.

Speaker 1 It is going to be an expensive enterprise that will lead to higher costs for people.

Speaker 1 The question is how to minimise that cost, not suggest that there's a secret plan that will somehow magically not have a cost attached to it.

Speaker 1 This is a major infrastructure network across the country that needs to be remade. Labor is partway through making it as a renewable electricity grid.

Speaker 1 The Coalition is saying, nope, let's go back to what we used to have.

Speaker 1 Either way, you need to build the second half of the renewable grid or you need to start again from scratch with a coal baseload system that Dan Tian wants.

Speaker 1 Either way, it's going to be expensive and I think both sides are going to run into trouble with this issue of power prices because no matter what the policy is, there's a big cost attached to it.

Speaker 1 All right, maybe we can wrap things up here on this issue of the Liberal Party's net zero emissions policy or not net zero as it has now turned to be.

Speaker 1 I know we're going to keep talking about it for plenty more days and weeks yet.

Speaker 1 But one of the other things that has happened while this has been going on has been the security agreement that has been struck between Indonesia and Australia to look at common security between the two countries, an agreement to consult with each other when it comes to matters of mutual security concern.

Speaker 1 Michelle, we had Anthony Albanese alongside Probo Subianto in Sydney announcing this agreement. It's something that Penny Wong, as Foreign Minister, has been working very carefully on.

Speaker 1 We know it comes at the same time as the government has been working to line up security deals with a number of Pacific countries in the region.

Speaker 1 Take us through the significance of this deal with Indonesia and why it's different from what we've seen with the Pacific countries.

Speaker 2 Well, I think it's interesting in that we did have a deal which is broadly similar to this under the Keating government, and then when things went bad between Indonesia and Australia, that was scrapped by the Indonesians.

Speaker 2 It's also interesting in the context that we've just had the agreement or the alliance sort of deal with Papua New Guinea.

Speaker 2 Now, this Indonesian deal is not at the same level as that PNG one, but it does show that the Australian government is very anxious to shore up or tie down, in a formal sort of sense, relationships, security relationships with as many neighbours as it can.

Speaker 2 And of course, why is that? Well, it's because they see a mounting potential threat from China. And so they're trying to create this ring of formal formal security relationships where possible.

Speaker 4 Yeah, it is a significant escalation. And I actually asked in the

Speaker 4 relationship, and I asked actually Peter Khalil, who's the assistant defence minister yesterday, how it would work and whether a scenario.

Speaker 4 You'll remember, guys, it was a big deal for a couple of days. I interviewed Peter Dutton about it, but you remember there was that story during the election about Russian bases

Speaker 4 in Indonesia and how that will all work and

Speaker 4 whether that was going to happen. And that was such a big deal at the time.
And then, you know, it didn't kind of eventuate.

Speaker 4 But the idea about like how that relationship and how our communications would work is a key part. Like Khalil said to me, well, yeah, it would actually help in those sorts of scenarios.

Speaker 4 It's true, wouldn't it? Like all of these relationships, all of these

Speaker 4 increases in any of those agreements, Michelle, ultimately, they are more insurance, aren't they, for us as we deal with the kind of geopolitical changes?

Speaker 2 Well, they are. And also,

Speaker 2 the consideration is there that if we don't build these relationships, the Chinese potentially will. So, we don't want vacuums anywhere that we can fill those spaces.

Speaker 1 We also don't want to be surprised. And I think this is what a key part of this agreement, particularly with Indonesia, is, because it is about consultation.

Speaker 1 In security terms, that's really important because being taken by surprise or misunderstanding something, and I think the election example, PK, is a really good one where there's confusion.

Speaker 1 And in a tense environment, miscommunication, confusion can see things escalate really quickly.

Speaker 1 So having agreements to consult, as boring as that kind of sounds, is actually quite important to making sure that points of tension don't escalate, that

Speaker 1 friendly nations are sharing information adequately and are able to act together, even if they're separate decisions made. I think that is really important.

Speaker 1 And it's also a signal that Indonesia, for all of its desire to maintain its non-aligned status, it is looking at what is going on, particularly in the maritime realm of Southeast Asia.

Speaker 1 And there is a shared interest between Australia and Indonesia of not wanting to have China dominate that maritime environment.

Speaker 1 So there's a strong motivator for Indonesia to take this step when previously they might not have been willing to do so.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think that's right. Oh, it's what an extraordinary day.

Speaker 4 We have recorded the party room way later than we usually do just to capture what is a sort of like incredibly significant political event in the departure of net zero bipartisanship.

Speaker 4 Michelle, thank you for navigating and waiting around all day and watching and doing everything you do. A whole career of brilliance.
Thanks, Michelle. Good to talk.

Speaker 4 That's it for the party room today, but we'll be back tomorrow. We're going to actually do a bonus question time so we can get to your curly questions, talk more about how this is all playing out too.

Speaker 4 Send us voice notes. You can email them to thepartyroom at ABC.net.au.

Speaker 1 And remember to follow Politics Now on the ABC Listen app so you never miss an episode. We'll have your question time episode tomorrow.

Speaker 1 And then on Saturday, David Spears is back for Insiders on Background, a really interesting one.

Speaker 1 He's going to be speaking to Ruben Berg, who's the co-chair of the First People's Assembly of Victoria, about Victoria's historic treaty. So plenty more to come this week.

Speaker 4 Heaps more to come. This is the final reminder for us that if you love us and you love sharing your opinions, We want to hear from you.
We'll be leaving our survey open for one more day.

Speaker 4 So for anyone who's been thinking about doing it, the deadline you have is Friday afternoon. We want to hear your voice.
Like we want to improve what we do. We think think a lot about it.

Speaker 4 So please head over to our show notes, click on the link, and give us your feedback. See you, Mel.

Speaker 1 See you, PK.