#402: Ex Abercrombie CEO Accused of Global S*x Trafficking Ring of Models - Epstein & Diddy Connection

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Speaker 1 When you walk into a store, just know that they might be watching you. And there is so much that we are telling the store owners by just walking through a store.

Speaker 1 90% of us will turn right once we're inside the store. That's after you get past the decompression zone.
That's what they call it.

Speaker 1 It is the zone right before the exit that is just big enough that the average customer walking in will transition from being outside all the noises of the cars honking, the parking lot mess, to now getting ready to spend money.

Speaker 1 It is timed so that you feel comfortable enough inside this new space. Then most of us turn right, which means some stores will take advantage of that.

Speaker 1 They will guide you counterclockwise through the architectural flow of the entire layout.

Speaker 1 The first wall you hit is the high power wall, which means stores will place items that they want to sell on the first aisle or wall the customer stops on.

Speaker 1 It's not going to be the best items, but the good items. The best items are actually scattered throughout the store to make sure that you walk through every single aisle looking for them.

Speaker 1 Side note, stores intentionally put small traffic blocking obstacles that are not a major inconvenience, but slow the customer down so that they can encourage browsing.

Speaker 1 So you're running around the store trying to find the best items, but the really good ones, the really good products are near the left side, right before you check out.

Speaker 1 This is when our carts are already full and we know that we already went over budget, but this one thing is so irresistible that we can't even say no. I mean, it's for the end.

Speaker 1 That's why they leave it there. But what you really came here for, the eggs, the milk, it's gonna be at the very back of the store so that you're forced to go all the way through the back.

Speaker 1 You can't just grab what you need and go. You have to linger inside the store.

Speaker 4 Okay, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 Retail psychology. Yeah.
Speaking of, if you want your customers lingering, you're going to want to play slower music.

Speaker 1 Or if you want them to get everything they need and leave or make impulse purchases, make the tempo of the music faster. Add splashes of red, which subconsciously create a sense of urgency.

Speaker 1 And remember, eye level is bi-level, meaning whatever you want to sell the most, items with the highest margins, like you're trying to get off the shelves, you're going to want to put it at eye level with the consumer.

Speaker 1 When you walk through the children's aisle with your children or your nieces, in my point, what's at your eye level is not what they're trying to sell you.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, they are trying to sell it to you, but what they're really trying to sell you is at what it's eye level with your child.

Speaker 1 One thing stores do not ever forget, at least the good stores, is the smell. You know that amazing smell when you walk into a coffee shop? Most of it is coffee aroma pumping through the HVAC systems.

Speaker 1 It's not just their coffee machines.

Speaker 1 Some department stores will even pump different scents in different sections of their store, coconut scent in their bikinis and vacationwear section, lilac in their lingerie departments.

Speaker 1 But there is one store that takes it even further. The mandatory number to spritz the cologne is 10.
Several inches from the clothes every single hours, spritz, spritz, spritz, spritz, 10 sprays each.

Speaker 1 After the ninth spritz, it feels more appropriate to just put the bottle of cologne through a hose system and spray down the clothes.

Speaker 1 It's like a mushroom cloud puff of smoke that every time everybody walks in, it's just the strongest scent. I mean, I'm sure at first, it could be a good scent.

Speaker 1 But the employees of the store that are surrounded by this scent 40 40 hours a week, you might as well mix Windex and lemon with musk and call it Abercromby Fierce.

Speaker 6 They sprit 10 times per hour?

Speaker 1 The nicer stores have a system that spritzes the perfume automatically on a timer. Heavy-duty commercial machines that spritz the perfume.

Speaker 6 But like that's 10 times at one section.

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 7 And they do it throughout the whole store.

Speaker 5 Throughout.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Some employees complained that by the end of their day, their eyes were blood red and their nails even felt like they were going to fall off because they're brittle, just because of how strong and toxic the scent is and how it's filled to the brim with alcohol in the air.

Speaker 1 But that is the price to be hot.

Speaker 1 That and a button-down shirt that's supposed to be worn with three buttons open, skinny jeans that are cuffed at 1.25 inches, and hairstyles that are supposed to be kept natural and well-kept.

Speaker 1 That is the price of hot. According to Abercrombie's employee lookbook, that's what they want you to look like.
The story is fascinating.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're no longer like this, but back then they were known in the mall for having two shirtless guys standing outside the door trying to, I guess, telepathically convince you to come in through their abs.

Speaker 1 Once you walk in, the clothes, they're terrible quality. Or maybe they're not.
It's hard to say when it's completely dark inside. The music is blasting so loud, you can barely hear yourself think.

Speaker 1 The smell is so nauseating after a few minutes. And the employees who are required to say, what's up? Within 15 seconds of you walking in, suddenly they're standoffish.

Speaker 1 They don't really want to help you. One former employee said, At the time, Abercrombie trained its employees to purposely ignore and not help and be snotty to its customers.

Speaker 1 It creates like a too good image, and it was encouraged.

Speaker 7 That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Is that true? Yes. And they were also told to not apologize for not having plus-size sizes.

Speaker 1 They said, Don't be sorry. Don't tell the customer you're sorry.

Speaker 5 What?

Speaker 1 And this, the whole idea of Abercrombie, is the work of the then CEO, Michael Jeffries, the quote-unquote mad genius behind the brand, who has now been arrested for sex trafficking with alleged connections to potentially Diddy, but also to Jeffrey Epstein.

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Speaker 1 Some quick disclaimers for today's ongoing case. Updates are developing as we speak, so the information is current up to the publishing date.
Some statements have been shortened for time.

Speaker 1 Additionally, this case is quite heavy in regards to illicit forced substance abuse, essay sex trafficking.

Speaker 1 Anything we state though in today's episode, specifically when we cover what alleged victims have stated to the media, the news outlets, detailed in their lawsuits, and even the federal indictment, they are all just allegations right now.

Speaker 1 Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, and the people in question have pled not guilty. So with that being said, let's get started.

Speaker 1 Do you ever just watch someone and you think, oh, that's so interesting? Why do they do something like that? Michael Jeffries just is a fascinating person. He does very fascinating things.

Speaker 1 He goes through the revolving doors twice. He has to go through it twice.
He can't just get off after the first round. He has to go through it twice.

Speaker 1 He never passes others on stairwells, even if he's late. He doesn't like to pass them by the side and go in front of them.

Speaker 5 Even if he's not going to be able to do that,

Speaker 6 the revolving doors. Yeah.
He takes a 360 plus.

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 6 Just is out is out. What is that? Just a weird habit?

Speaker 1 Perhaps some could say maybe there's some indication of some neuroscience. Maybe he is very neurotic about it.

Speaker 1 He parks his Porsche every single day at the same angle in the same parking spot and he wedges his key in between the car seats and leaves the doors unlocked.

Speaker 1 He has a pair of lucky shoes. If he has to read something important, like a financial document, he will put those shoes on.
He will not read it in any other footwear. This is his footwear of choice.

Speaker 1 But right now, he's with a journalist named Benoit, and the two of them are walking through an Abercrombie store, passing all the big blown-up pictures of the shirtless abs all over the walls.

Speaker 1 And he's asking Benoit, the journalist, how does the store look? How does it feel? How does it smell? These are the things that I'm obsessed with. He walks up to the mannequins.

Speaker 1 We're just not there, guys. He's yelling at his employees.
No, we're not. The music is blasting.
He's practically screaming over it.

Speaker 1 For some reason, they don't just lower the music, not even a decibel. He's pointing at the mannequin in the woman's clothes.
The jeans are too high.

Speaker 1 The jeans have to be lower, and we need to make the legs look skinny, okay? Should we clip the back of the knees or something? We need it bigger at the top and skinnier at the legs.

Speaker 1 That is much sexier, okay? It's going to be much, much better. Then he turns his attention to the male mannequin.
How much more rugged and masculine can we make this one look?

Speaker 1 A bunch of assistants run over. Make the jeans look a little bit bigger in the leg, you know? Oh, that's good.
That's good. He looks cooler now.
He's got more attitude. That's what we're looking for.

Speaker 1 More attitude. And look at this.
Look at this. We need to fix this guy's package.
Someone's come stuff him. He's talking about that package.

Speaker 4 A female. You're talking about a mannequin?

Speaker 1 Yeah. A female assistant runs over to try and poof up the private area of that mannequin.
Now lower the pants some more. The pants need to be much, much lower.

Speaker 1 Get them as low as we can without them falling off. We don't want him looking like some old guy.

Speaker 1 It's not really something you would do in front of a customer, but there's no customers coming into the store because this is is not a real Abercrombie store.

Speaker 1 It's a mock store, a fake practice store inside the massive 300-acre office for Abercrombie located in the middle of nowhere in Ohio. They call it the campus.
That's what their HQ is called.

Speaker 1 Welcome to the Abercrombie headquarters. If you see a drone shot of it, it could honestly be used in one of those showing FBI training headquarters movies or some doomsday bunker for the ultra elite.

Speaker 1 Pretty much every single person on this campus, they're wearing flip-flops, rip jeans, polo shirts with mooses on the front, Abercrombie's logo. Kidding.

Speaker 1 They themselves call working at Abercrombie the 13th grade because that's what it feels like, an extension of high school. 13th grade.

Speaker 1 Benoit is following Mike Jeffries, the CEO, around the campus, and he kind of walks fast for someone who's perpetually click-clacking around in flip-flops.

Speaker 1 And it's just so fascinating to listen to the CEO. Everything is dude this, dude, that, dude, dude.
Man, dude. What a cool idea, dude.
Let's make this dude look more like a dude, dude.

Speaker 1 Interesting. You know, the man is 61 years old.

Speaker 1 And Mike thinks the worst kind of people are moody and cynical, as opposed to cool people who are beautiful, masculine, optimistic. That's what America needs more of.

Speaker 1 And Mike Jeffries, he seems to act like he has it all. I mean, he acts like it.
Mike Jeffries is the CEO of AvoCombie, but one could argue he's more like the founder and creator.

Speaker 1 He made the brand brand what it is. Those shirtless guys outside spraying cologne on people that walk past, that was his idea.

Speaker 1 It was also his idea to not sell extra large or XXL in women's clothing specifically. They sell them for men, but not for women, which is interesting.
Because it's all about aspiration.

Speaker 1 Those are his words, not mine. Mike Jeffries says, that's why we hire good-looking people in our stores, because good-looking people attract other good-looking people.

Speaker 1 And we want to market to cool, good-looking people. We don't want to market to anyone other than that.

Speaker 1 In every school, there are the cool kids and the popular kids, and then there are the not-so-cool kids. Candidly, we go after the cool kids.

Speaker 1 We go after the attractive all-American kid with a great attitude and a lot of friends. A lot of people don't belong in our clothes, and they can't belong.
Are we exclusionary? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 Those companies that are in trouble are trying to target everybody, young, old, fat, skinny, but then you become totally vanilla. You don't alienate anybody, but you also don't excite anybody either.

Speaker 1 This interview will later go viral and it leads to a huge campaign, a boycott against Abercrombie and Fitch.

Speaker 1 It leads to a YouTuber vlogging himself, buying Abercrombie clothes from Goodwill, handing them out to people without homes on Skid Row, which this is also very controversial, but he tells his viewers that they need to rebrand Abercrombie into the number one apparel for people without homes.

Speaker 1 He encourages his viewers to donate their Abercrombie clothes to people without homes and use the hashtag hashtag fitch to the homeless. Which

Speaker 1 that's not exactly it either.

Speaker 1 Okay, but listen the whole thing is very complicated, very messy, but not as messy as it's about to get in 2024 when the feds get involved in the former Abercrombie CEO's life.

Speaker 1 The federal indictment reads, from approximately 2008 to 2015, the defendants Michael S. Jeffries, then CEO, Matthew C.
Smith, and James T.

Speaker 1 Jacobson, together with others, operated an international sex trafficking and prostitution business. A man named Luke tells the BBC,

Speaker 1 these are just claims, but he says, it was nothing like what he anticipated.

Speaker 1 He had walked in and it's, of course, a dimly lit room with those giant photos of shirtless guys all over the walls and everything is dark.

Speaker 1 And in the middle, there's a group of assistants standing full head to toe in Abercrombie uniforms, the forever recognizable polo shirt, blue jeans, flip-flops, just casually folding clothes on a table.

Speaker 1 The only only thing missing is likely that strong scent of cologne. Abercrombie Fierce, they call it.

Speaker 1 Luke was called by the supposed executive assistant of Mike Jeffries, the former CEO, to come in for a photo shoot. Except this is not an Abercrombie store.
It's also not the mock store.

Speaker 1 It's not the practice store. According to Luke, this is a hotel suite that has been outfitted to look exactly like an Abercrombie store.

Speaker 1 According to Luke's allegations, again, these are just allegations, but those quote-unquote assistants that are folding clothes keep encouraging him to pretend to be a shirtless greeter at the front of the store, like roleplay.

Speaker 1 Just do it, they allegedly kept telling him.

Speaker 1 They allegedly kept telling him, now I have two very important guests, and these are going to be customers that you need to impress and entertain because they're going to be buying a lot of clothes from you.

Speaker 1 Luke says in that moment, Mike Jeffries and a man named Matthew Smith come out from the corner of the room. He claims that they immediately start touching him.

Speaker 1 Luke alleges, the former CEO of Abercrombie then proceeded to perform oral sex on Luke, while Luke allegedly, quote, I tried to say no repeatedly, and then I just kind of got convinced to do something, but I was constantly saying no.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to go. And you know when you pack your suitcase perfect for your trip, everything is stuffed to the brim and it works.
It zips.

Speaker 1 But the second that zipper starts unraveling, everything starts coming out. Once this comes out, a string of allegations will start coming out against the former CEO of Abercrombie.

Speaker 1 One allegation is by John, fake name. He states that he was on a cruise, the Queen Mary 2, that sails from England to New York.
He was there because Mike Jeffries asked him to be.

Speaker 1 And how do you say no to Mike Jeffries, who keeps trying to allegedly insert a, quote, bleeding finger into him? He thought this was a work opportunity to potentially be a model for Abercrombie.

Speaker 1 I was in the bed putting on a fake smile, crying on the inside.

Speaker 1 Here I am in the middle of the ocean, having this person four times my age in that position of power and influence belittle me to death and literally call me worthless simply because I said no to something.

Speaker 1 No to sexual advances. advances.

Speaker 1 In one lawsuit filed against Mike Jeffries, the former CEO of Abercrombie, the lawsuit alleges, this is separate from the federal indictment and still nonetheless an allegation.

Speaker 1 The lawsuit alleges, quote, at one point, a video circulated within the Abercrombie office which depicted Mike Jeffries sniffing what was believed to be cocaine off a man's penis.

Speaker 1 A line of cocaine off of a man's private part.

Speaker 6 What was floating?

Speaker 1 Circulating. I guess a bunch of employees were just circulating the video.

Speaker 6 It was a video.

Speaker 1 That's what it's the allegation is, yes. Okay.
The prosecutors also allege that the victims were as young as 19 years old, were often subjected to painful penis injections to induce erections.

Speaker 1 They were allegedly told that it was liquid Viagra.

Speaker 1 The indictment reads, on more than one occasion, the defendants either directed others to or personally injected men in their penises with a prescription-grade erection-inducing substance for the purpose of causing the men to engage in sex acts in which they were otherwise physically incapable or unwilling.

Speaker 1 Notwithstanding the fact that these injections were not medically injected and frequently caused the men to suffer painful physical reactions that lasted for several hours, Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith employed their use to fulfill their own sexual desires by causing men to submit to them.

Speaker 1 The indictment alleges, quote, sex events, including amongst other things, anal intercourse, the insertion of large sex toys into the anus, and high-pressured enemas administered by inserting a hose into the anus.

Speaker 1 So an an enema allegedly given through a high-pressured hose would not only be painful, but extremely dangerous. These are the allegations set forth in the federal indictment.

Speaker 1 It stated that these could potentially cause severe injury by tearing a hole in the rexum or the colon. It could cause damage to the intestinal lining.

Speaker 1 And it stated, quote, using a high-pressure hose for an enema would be extremely dangerous and should never be attempted.

Speaker 1 All these allegations are currently being handled by the Eastern District of New York, the same office that handled the Nixium sex cult case. Not to be confused with the Southern District of New York.

Speaker 1 That is the office that is handling the Diddy case. The Eastern District of New York will be taking on former CEO Mike Jeffries, and they are not here to play.

Speaker 1 During a press conference for the arrest of Mike Jeffries, Mike's right-hand man Matthew Smith, who is now known as Mike's recruiter, James Jacobson, the prosecutors state, to anyone who thinks they can exploit and coerce others by using the so-called casting couch system, this case should serve as a warning.

Speaker 1 Prepare to trade that couch for a bed in federal prison.

Speaker 1 Wow. Which is a very powerful statement, but it's also very intriguing.
Because why now? That has been a question brought up by so many netizens. He was the CEO, he stepped down in like 2014.
Why now?

Speaker 1 And they have been busy drawing connections. Netizens are drawing connections between Mike Jeffries and a few other controversial figures, Diddy and Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 Some people think the timing of Mike Jeffries' arrest is interesting. He is arrested about a month after Diddy was arrested.

Speaker 1 The sex trafficking charge feels similar, and perhaps some of the allegations feel similar to netizens. Mike Jeffries would allegedly host these private events at his massive Hamptons mansion.

Speaker 1 Instead of it being filled with celebrities and wearing all white, allegedly he would invite over-aspiring male models. He would invite them to his $30 million home.

Speaker 1 And the house staff that worked at this massive estate said it was very strange. Every Saturday between 11 to 6 p.m., they all had to leave.
They're like, why do we have to leave?

Speaker 1 I feel like this is the day where we get the most work done. It was unspoken that this was Mike's playtime.
That's one of the former staffers said.

Speaker 5 Whoa.

Speaker 1 One alleged victim states that the house in the middle of nowhere in the Hamptons, all you hear is the ocean and seagulls. I mean, the homes are so big, neighbors are far apart.
It's very secluded.

Speaker 1 And the house is clean. They said the house is too clean.
He says, quote, like when I say clean, I mean like a hospital clean, like almost sterile.

Speaker 1 Another victim states of the Hamdens house party, I was told to undress into my underwear and I was given a glass of wine and was told that they're going to come chat with me, like an interview.

Speaker 1 They continue, I was presented with meeting the CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch for a sex party, a sexual experience. There was never any real clarification of what was expected of me.

Speaker 1 It was just like, you can go there and do what you're comfortable with and let it be known in a roundabout way that the further you go, the better. I just was not a human to these people.

Speaker 1 I I was an animal. I was a body.
I was being presented to someone to do what they wanted with. Which again, a lot of medicines feel very similar to the Diddy case.

Speaker 1 They comment, yeah, Diddy is dropping names in alphabetical order, Abercrombie for A.

Speaker 1 Another writes, the first Diddy domino has fallen. Sing, Diddy, sing.
But there is no direct connection between Abercrombie and Mike Jeffries and Diddy, at least none that the public knows of.

Speaker 1 But there is an interesting, perhaps stronger connection between Mike Jeffries and a Jeffrey Epstein.

Speaker 1 Side note, we have a whole two-part series on Epstein and Epstein's Island, but it's rather well known that Jeffree Epstein and a man named Leslie Wexner were once very, very close.

Speaker 1 Leslie Wexner is a billionaire that runs L brands. Well, he did.

Speaker 1 The parent company for brands like Victoria's Secret, which allegedly Epstein would pose as a recruiter for Victoria's Secret to approach young women and try to essay them, allegedly, or sometimes would fully allegedly essay them.

Speaker 1 Leslie Wexner put Epstein in charge of his finances, billions of dollars. This is how he becomes so rich.

Speaker 1 Leslie Wexner has since stated that he has been taken advantage of by Epstein and called Epstein sick, cunning, and so depraved. But netizens are very suspicious of him.

Speaker 1 But what does this have to do with Mike Jeffries? I'll tell you exactly what it has to do with Mike Jeffries. Teddy Roosevelt.

Speaker 1 Hold on. Teddy Roosevelt and Ernest Hemingway were actually big, big fans of Abercrombie.
They're not wearing the polo with the popped collars. Abercrombie is actually quite old.

Speaker 1 They didn't put 1892 on their sweaters to appear more collegiate. They were actually formed in 1892.
They were known primarily for safari wear, fishing gear.

Speaker 1 They had some really cool hunting gear that people would equate to the style of, I guess, like peaky blinders.

Speaker 1 and like the long trench quotes you're going hunting they sold fishing gear guns shaving cream books everything one-stop shop at the Abercrombie but eventually Abercrombie becomes this failing brand They're not even just not making money, they're losing $25 million a year.

Speaker 1 Not in the way that tech companies are not profitable, but like investors are very stressed about this.

Speaker 1 They're just losing money with no end in sight until Leslie Wexner comes around, purchases Abercrombie and Fitch for $47 million to join all his other brands under the limited company, which again, he's no longer a part of.

Speaker 1 But when he was, he was in charge of Victoria's Secret, Express, Lane Bryant, Bath and Body Works, The Limited, Limited, Henry Bendle, White Barn Candle Company, and now Abercrombie and Fitch.

Speaker 1 Les has a few things that he's known for. One, the way he builds his businesses, there's always one of two ways he goes about it.

Speaker 1 He either takes an existing brand, tries a new concept that lives within that existing brand's cohesive message, and then spins it until it becomes successful, or he will take an existing failing brand and do everything he can to make it profitable.

Speaker 1 He buys failing Abercrombie and puts a man named Mike Jeffries in charge. And that's how they're connected.
Rihanna is an investigative journalist for the BBC. This was several years ago.

Speaker 1 She actually broke this case. She was the one that kickstarted the federal investigation.

Speaker 1 Back in 2021, she's scrolling on Instagram when she sees this discourse happening between male models about feeling ignored during the MeToo movement.

Speaker 1 One model writes, we've seen it happen with hashtag MeToo. How about hashtag us two?

Speaker 5 Interesting.

Speaker 1 She immediately tries tries to get in contact with the male model that posts that because perhaps she could help share the story. I mean what story does he have?

Speaker 1 After an hour of talking, the male model, Barrett, opens up and tells her, it was the darkest experience I've ever dealt with.

Speaker 1 They had someone come and shave me, like my whole body, because that's how they like the boys. Rihanna is like, who the hell is he talking about?

Speaker 1 The CEO of Abercrombie, the one that made $70 million in a year. $70 million, $7.00 million.
He tells her that he thought he was going to get scouted as an Abercrombie and Fitch model.

Speaker 1 Instead, he ends up essayed. But he's not the only one.
It's like a whole operation, and it all starts with the man with no nose.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 1 The what? Okay. Another alleged victim of then CEO of Abercrombie States.

Speaker 1 He explained that he has no nose or no skin on his nose because he had a plastic surgery mishap with his nose and it collapsed and it had to be removed completely.

Speaker 1 He chooses to wear this snakeskin patch, like a leather patch where his nose once was. He kind of looks like Voldemort.

Speaker 1 They were all told, you go meet with Mr. No Nose first before you can meet the CEO of Abercrombie.
He's the gatekeeper.

Speaker 1 This would start a three-year hunt to look for the man without the skin on his nose.

Speaker 1 And when Rihanna finally finds him two years later, she manages to track down the man with no nose, tracks him all the way down to his front doorstep. Knock, knock.

Speaker 1 The door slowly creaks open, and here he is on the porch steps with his head in in his hands and he tells Rihanna, the reporter, I promise I'll tell you everything if you leave my name out of it.

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Speaker 1 The name everyone cares about in the fashion industry, or at least at at one point, was Mike Jeffries.

Speaker 1 The one that turned a random fishing brand into the only thing that teenagers want to wear and spend $60 on a polo shirt on, or at least convince their parents to buy them a $60 hoodie.

Speaker 1 I mean, he didn't just do that with Abercrombie and Fitch either. He created Abercrombie for kids, for little five-year-olds to wear Abercrombie, the regular Abercrombie for middle schoolers.

Speaker 1 High schoolers, there's Hollister. The tiny, tiny bit less expensive brand that sells the California dream.
There's a lot of spin-off brands. This is how one journalist describes it.

Speaker 1 For the middle schoolers, there's Abercrombie. For high schoolers, there's Hollister.
And quote, it's a wildly popular surf-inspired look for energetic and outgoing girls and guys.

Speaker 1 Perfect choice for Midwestern teens that wish they lived in Laguna Beach, California.

Speaker 1 Then quote, when those Hollister kids head off to college, the preppy and collegiate Abercrombie and Fitch is waiting for them.

Speaker 1 One psychologist said, they are selling the most popular people in class, the quarterback and the head of the cheerleader. That's what they're actually selling.

Speaker 1 One former employee said they were required to say, hey, what's up? to everyone that walked in.

Speaker 1 They write on Reddit, you're required to say that tagline to anyone within 15 seconds of them entering the store. Hey, what's up? That's the simplest one.

Speaker 1 One time they changed it to, hey, how's it going? Have you tried our jeans? They'll make you look like a star. Which naturally everyone in the store hated.
But that is what Mike Jeffree wanted.

Speaker 1 And what Mike Jeffrey wants, he gets. The first day one would start their job at Abercrombie, at least back then, it's likely they would have a big binder slapped down in front of them.
What is this?

Speaker 1 Employee lookbook. If you flip to page one, it reads, exhibiting the Abercrombie look is a tremendously important part of the ANF stores.

Speaker 1 We are selling an experience for our customer, an atmosphere that people want to experience over and over again. Our people in store are an inspiration to the customer.

Speaker 1 This is what you need to look like. Hairstyles, neatly combed, attractive, natural, classic hairstyle.
There are two pictures on the lookbook. The acceptable side shows an image of a white model.

Speaker 1 And of course, the unacceptable side shows a black model with dreadlocks. As for jewelry, gold chains are not acceptable for men.

Speaker 1 But a thin, short, delicate silver necklace on women is perfectly okay. Women are allowed a maximum of two earrings per ear and should not be bigger than a dime and should not dangle.

Speaker 1 Men, no earrings allowed. Underscored and bolded.
Men are not allowed to wear earrings. Even fingernails, it reads.

Speaker 1 Fingernails should not extend more than a fourth of an inch beyond the tip of the finger. Although natural nails are preferred, if polish is worn, it should be clear or natural in color.

Speaker 1 Managers and recruiters were told, the best way to find the employee is just go straight to the best fraternities on each campus and recruit the best looking guys there.

Speaker 1 Likely, that guy is going to do well in the store, just standing shirtless at the door.

Speaker 1 But he's probably already popular, meaning if he's wearing Abercrombie, everyone else will want to wear Abercrombie, so it's perfect.

Speaker 1 There's even a manual for the crew on the Abercrombie Company jet, a 47-page manual. Some interesting parts read.

Speaker 1 The male staff should spritz their uniforms with Abercrombie cologne upon arrival at the household and throughout the duration of the shift.

Speaker 1 Even here, with private planes, he's very picky, Mike Jeffries is, writing. Hats should be worn when the temperature is below 40 degrees.
Make sure that the brim of the hat is two inches thick.

Speaker 1 The brim should be pulled so that it is approximately in the middle of the forehead. He is meticulous.

Speaker 1 He even cares about how many cushions were on each office chair or on the private's jet plane chairs. Even bringing dogs onto the plane, Mike Jeffries has a protocol.

Speaker 1 Upon arrival, the houseman will direct the bags to the captain. The houseman will take the dogs on board board the aircraft, leaving the dogs on their leashes.

Speaker 1 Once on board, the houseman will hand the dogs to the steward to tend to them from there.

Speaker 1 The houseman will then carry all the carry-ons on board to be taken directly to the crew rest area, where Ruby and Trouble travel. These are the dogs' names.

Speaker 1 Ruby will sit opposite Michael in the cabin. As for meal service, one medium tray liner should be laid three and a half inches from the edge of the table.

Speaker 1 One dinner napkin should be centered on the tray liner so that the embroidery at the bottom of the napkin lines up with the embroidery at the bottom of the tray liner.

Speaker 1 One lunch and fork should be placed on the left of the tray liner, half an inch from the bottom of the tray liner.

Speaker 1 One luncheon knife should be placed to the right of the luncheon forks, half an inch from the bottom of the tray liner. One white wine glass should be placed above the tray liner.

Speaker 1 There's even a section for language and tone. When Michael or a guest makes a request to respond by saying, no problem.

Speaker 1 This should be used in place of phrases like, sure, just a minute, right away, yes, sir.

Speaker 1 Which, if you remember from the Epstein episode, Ghelaine Maxwell had some weird manuals for house employees, and these, like saying no problem, these things, she was very particular about.

Speaker 1 So the connection is very strong. Even preparing reports for Mike Jeffries.
To read on the plane is detailed.

Speaker 1 It reads, set up the whole punch by pulling out the silver calibrated side so that the edge of the whole punch lines up with the fifth mark on the silver calibrated slider.

Speaker 1 He's even detailing how you need to punch holes. And it's not just an arbitrary little booklet that he creates for everyone to read and not.

Speaker 1 He actually holds people people accountable for these things. It's called a corporate blitz.

Speaker 1 Unannounced store visits in the sense that the stores will probably find out that someone from corporate, potentially even Mike Jeffries himself is coming, but maybe a few days ahead.

Speaker 1 One former employee said that they would find out a corporate blitz is happening on a Friday. That means Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, everyone is doing overnight shifts non-stop.

Speaker 1 This is Abercrombie. This is not.

Speaker 1 I don't know, the World Health Organization.

Speaker 1 They not only check to make sure that the shelves are completely dust-free, the moose head that's hanging on every store wall has to be super clean.

Speaker 1 Mike is very detail-oriented, and honestly, kind of a micromanager.

Speaker 1 One former employee writes online, I worked as a quote, model folding clothes at the front of the store, and it was my job to greet people who walked in.

Speaker 1 And the only greeting I was allowed to use at that time was, hey, how's it going? Because I guess it seemed more cool and laid back or whatever.

Speaker 1 I literally got yelled at by my manager once for going off script and saying, hey, welcome to Abercrombie.

Speaker 1 Another former employee says, during orientation, we were told not to interact with customers. Our jobs wear twofold clothes and look good in clothes.

Speaker 1 Another said, men had to wear their jeans one waist size bigger so you could see their underwear line and the logo on the underwear.

Speaker 1 Our shirts also had to be one size smaller so it was tight in the chest and arm so you could see our muscles. When we had to wear our belts extra long to hang in front like a penis.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 4 That's what they said.

Speaker 1 But the most important thing, according to one former manager during a a corporate blitz, is the thing that mattered the most though, was who was working the day of the visits.

Speaker 1 There were some people that we kept on staff just for those visits. AKA, they have to go above and beyond the lookbook.

Speaker 1 The former manager said, it was never, hey, your story is not hitting the number or doing this. It was, you got to get better looking people in here.

Speaker 1 One employee said, I remember a girl walking in once and asking me if we're hiring. We were, but somehow the manager overheard and told me in the headset to tell her that we weren't.

Speaker 1 The manager said, she didn't have to look.

Speaker 1 One former ANF store manager went on to CBS to say, I was sick of getting my schedule back every week with lines through names, essentially telling people that they're not good enough to work here.

Speaker 1 I can't look the people that work for me that want to be there in the eye and say, you know, lie to them and say, oh, we don't have hours, when it really was because they weren't pretty enough.

Speaker 6 How is that okay for such a big brand to discriminate like that for that long?

Speaker 1 They found a loophole. Did you catch the loophole?

Speaker 6 No.

Speaker 1 The employees are called models.

Speaker 5 Oh,

Speaker 6 so they can judge based on looks, you're saying.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 1 Abercrombie was just overall a menace to society. I mean, they had graphic tees, just playing tees with little slogans on there, which just started off normal and cute.

Speaker 1 Abercrombie and Fitch established this day, blah, blah, blah. It looks very collegiate, but somehow they end up escalating.
One shirt reads, I had a nightmare that I was a brunette.

Speaker 1 It's just mean for no reason. Okay, but they keep going.
Blondes are adored. Brunettes are ignored.
Mike Jeffries is indeed blonde. They have girls' shirts that read on the chest.

Speaker 1 Who needs a brain when you have these?

Speaker 1 Or, I see that you already met the twins. Okay, not great.
Or another one that reads, gentlemen prefer take old bitties.

Speaker 1 Saying, no brains. Do I make you look fat?

Speaker 5 Whoa.

Speaker 1 It's all relative in West Virginia. Which apparently the governor of West Virginia did not approve of that message, was very upset by it.
Or good girls drink quickly.

Speaker 1 Or just a shirt that says freshman 15 that's sold in the women's section. Freshman 15 with a list of 15 boys' names.

Speaker 1 So freshman 15 is typically known as the 15 pounds that you gain when you go into college as a freshman, right? But this one reads a bunch of boys' names.

Speaker 1 So it's indicating that as a freshman in college, she slept with these 15 boys.

Speaker 1 But it's not until they mess with the Swifties that they actually end up in a bit of a trouble with most of these shirts. They made a t-shirt that reads, more boyfriends than TS, TS for Taylor Swift.

Speaker 1 Swifties start protesting, to which Abercrombie responds very sincerely and very professionally, issuing a statement on Twitter. Hey, hashtag Swifties.
So we no longer sell this shirt.

Speaker 1 We hear Taylor's music and think that she's awesome.

Speaker 1 If you called the Abercrombie customer service line, you would hear the new updated message on the phone. Thank you for calling Abercrombie and Fitch Public Relations.

Speaker 1 If you are calling regarding the Taylor Swift t-shirt, please note that it is no longer available. Heinous, but it somehow gets worse.

Speaker 1 They start selling these t-shirts with a donkey wearing a sombrero and holding a taco in his hand. Next to him are the words, Juan Moore for the road.
Then they release another shirt.

Speaker 1 It shows stereotypically racist caricatures of East Asians with slanted eyes, and the t-shirt reads, Wong Brothers Laundry Service. Two Wongs can make it white.

Speaker 6 That is crazy.

Speaker 1 There were protests outside of Abercrombie after that. People were rightfully so pissed off.
Asian Americans did not find this funny. This shirt would actually cause so much problems for the brand.

Speaker 1 People started protesting outside the stores, holding up posters reading, two wongs don't make it white, but two wongs can make a fight. Educate America on institutional racism.

Speaker 1 I'm not Asian, but I recognize racism when I see it. Which side note, with all of this going on, SNL decides to be racist about it.

Speaker 1 Tina Fey, acting as a news reporter, states, the protest was non-violent and orderly, but the same could not be said for the parking lot when they all went to drive home, saying Asians are bad at driving.

Speaker 1 In response to all of this, a spokesperson for Abercrombie said, We personally thought Asians would love this t-shirt. We are truly and deeply sorry for everyone that we've offended.

Speaker 1 We never single out any one group or poke fun at anyone. We poke fun at everybody, from women to flight attendants to baggage handlers to football coaches to Irish Americans to snow skiers.

Speaker 1 There's really no group that we haven't teased. Mike Jeffries says, we have a whole morals committee for t-shirts.
Sometimes they're on vacation. Listen, do we sometimes go too far? Absolutely.

Speaker 1 But we push the envelope and we try to be funny and we try to stay authentic and relevant to our target customer. I really don't care what anyone other than our target customer thinks.

Speaker 1 One former employee guessed it's because controversy brings free publicity and the shirts are supposed to be cool. And what's cooler than something your parents don't want you to wear?

Speaker 1 Probably the more honest reason though is another former employee states, they kept making those graphic t-shirts because,

Speaker 1 quote, the kids loved wearing them.

Speaker 1 So we just kept making them and they were cheap you could sell tees for like an 85% markup and I guess people wear them because they want to fit that image of the guys on the Abercrombie ads Most of the pictures of all the shirtless guys laying down on the sand showing off their armpits they're known for their armpit ads It's always like aggressive armpits.

Speaker 1 Do you know what I'm talking about?

Speaker 1 And one of them literally states in an interview, oh, I'm the armpit guy because that's one of the most iconic pictures to come out of Abercrombie. That is all.

Speaker 1 All the photography is the work of one man named Bruce Weber.

Speaker 1 In the photography and fashion world, it's said that you could spot a Bruce Weber from a mile away.

Speaker 1 They say the aesthetic is, quote, joyful group shots, young people, sex, Americana, golden retrievers out in the countryside.

Speaker 1 He was one of the highest paid photographers at one point. He worked with brands like Calvin Klein, Rath Loren, Revlon, Versace, Vogue, GQ, Vanity Fair, L, Rolling Stone.

Speaker 1 You know those underwear ads for Calvin Klein? They basically started due in part because of Bruce. They were very controversial at the time, but also very groundbreaking.

Speaker 1 To some people, they said the photos look like softcore porn.

Speaker 1 The National Coalition for the Protection of Children and Families and another group called Focus on the Family, they both launched boycotts of the brands because of Bruce Weber's photos.

Speaker 1 But criticism aside, Bruce was killing it in the industry. So it doesn't really matter because being in the same room as Bruce meant that your career is going to advance.
It's going to skyrocket.

Speaker 1 Abercrombie models remember going out to a photo shoot where Bruce was. He's not even taking pictures all day of everyone.
He's looking for the right moment, the right people to take pictures of.

Speaker 1 They just told the models, be natural, do whatever feels natural. And Bruce will take a picture if he likes it.

Speaker 1 One model says guys would just be climbing up a tree being like, hey, Bruce, it's a tree and I'm in it. Look at me.

Speaker 1 Or they would start doing push-ups on the curb to get his attention. Bruce is a very fascinating character.

Speaker 1 One model remembers that he was called for a potential shoot with Bruce Weber, but instead of meeting at a photo shoot location, he goes up to meet with Bruce at a jewelry store. Uh hi Bruce.

Speaker 1 Hi, nice to meet you. I'm Bruce won't even look at him, won't even acknowledge him, nothing.

Speaker 1 So now he's just standing awkwardly to the side, uncomfortably, while Bruce, for quote, at least 10 minutes, picks out jewelry for his wife. It was all very strange.

Speaker 1 It's like a power play or something.

Speaker 1 But still, it's Bruce. This is what one model has to say about working with Bruce.
I couldn't sleep the night before. I was like, I am going to shoot with Bruce Weber.

Speaker 1 Oh my God, I'm going going to shoot with Bruce Weber. My star could turn.
I could take off from here. And everybody is like, you're shooting with Bruce.
That's awesome.

Speaker 1 Because he is the brains behind the image of Abercrombie. Skinny, rich, sexy, white.

Speaker 1 One former employee said, all that mattered was that the employees you took pictures of and sent back to headquarters were hot. That's it.
That's at the store level.

Speaker 1 They're taking pictures of everyone working in the store, sending it back to corporate. And these people need to look like they could potentially be in a Bruce Weber ad.

Speaker 1 One supposed former manager of Abercrombie and Fitch did an AMA on Reddit where they said there's a thing called the cast of insert store tracker.

Speaker 1 You submit your top 10 most attractive and outgoing sales floor staff.

Speaker 1 It is okay and encouraged for an ugly or quote chubby employee to only work in the back or with the night crew and not be on the sales floor.

Speaker 1 Every year the cast of gets their photo taken and submitted to corporate. Calendars and video propaganda are made and dispersed congratulating the sexiest store locations.
It was weird.

Speaker 1 And the process of that is just uncomfortable. You have to take shirtless pictures of guys that work there to send to corporate.

Speaker 1 They write, it was so weird to take a guy into the back room, make him take off his shirt, pull his jeans right down to his pubes, and then take his picture. We have to do this to search for greeters.

Speaker 1 It was fucking awkward. Of course, with everyone in the company having OCD, they made us do it like 10 different times with the same people off the clock.
Just constantly taking weird photos.

Speaker 1 Another former manager states, the thinner, more conventionally attractive you were, the closer you were to the front.

Speaker 6 That is so crazy because this wasn't even that long ago, too. No.

Speaker 6 So the fact that now thinking back in those days, that is crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Ethnic minorities and overweight people most of the time just went to the work in the stockroom along with anyone who wasn't tall or facially symmetrical enough to fold t-shirts.

Speaker 4 Wait,

Speaker 5 what? Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Another, a completely different former manager, she says, you have to rank your employees on the level of cool to rocks. If they aren't at least cool, you have to zero them off your schedule.

Speaker 1 They have to be fired. It didn't matter what your sales were.
All that mattered was that the employees that you took pictures of were hot, which is clearly that's illegal, right? That's what they say.

Speaker 1 One of the former managers also said, It was something of a sport amongst the floor managers and employees to make fun of overweight shoppers who came in looking for clothes, as we generally didn't carry about a size 12 in most items, and we were encouraged not to apologize for this.

Speaker 1 One manager even told me as his biceps strained the sleeves of his moose-emblazoned shirt that wearing Abercrombie was a privilege, not a right.

Speaker 5 Okay, bro. What?

Speaker 1 And any employee who gained a significant amount of weight was fired with little explanation. The Supreme Court hears a lot of interesting cases.
And then there's cases that honestly, honestly, why?

Speaker 1 Why did this happen? Why did somebody feel compelled to do this? And now we have to go to the Supreme Court.

Speaker 1 Why couldn't we just all have basic human decency and we would save everyone a lot of time, heartache, and even money? In 2015, SCODUS hears a case of a woman named Samantha.

Speaker 1 She says in 2008, she applied for a job at Abercrombie, but she was denied a position because she wore a hijab. That's the only reason she was denied the position.
Not because she was underqualified.

Speaker 1 If anything, she was likely overqualified. No other reason than her religious garment.
They told her it went against their quote look policy, which is the quote classic East Coast collegiate style.

Speaker 1 Samantha rightfully files a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, which then files a lawsuit against Abercrombie, and they doubled down.

Speaker 1 Abercrombie reps say, well, it's kind of like a baseball cap. Well, it's kind of not, but they double down and they keep going.
We ban all types of headgear, regardless of religious affiliation.

Speaker 1 Because of Abercrombie's stubbornness on being discriminatory, the case goes all the way up to the Supreme Court. The case was heard by SCOTUS.

Speaker 1 And like I said, if Abercrombie and all the employees just had basic decency, it wouldn't have gone up all this way. Which side note, that's not me saying Samantha shouldn't have brought it to SCOTUS.

Speaker 1 That's like, if we we don't punch people in the faces, we don't have to have these trials about assault. I think Samantha did amazing.

Speaker 1 SCOTUS rules eight to one in favor of Samantha, stating that Abercrombie has violated the Civil Rights Act, which states that employers must provide, quote, reasonable accommodation without undue hardship, which honestly, Samantha is amazing.

Speaker 1 She quite literally helped make the country better. But again, nobody had to do that and go through all this anxiety had Abercrombie just not been a bad person.
And it's not just racist merchandise.

Speaker 1 It's not just religious discrimination. They were also just flat out, their whole thing was bizarre.
And they were also just flat out racist to everyone. They're just discriminating.

Speaker 1 After a corporate blitz in Irvine, California, which is heavily an Asian community, they fired almost everyone in the store because they're Asians.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And they pointed at the white guy on the poster and said, you need to have more staff that looks like that.

Speaker 6 That's crazy because Probably most customers are Asians. Yes.

Speaker 1 Which is just outright corporate discrimination and racism. Another Asian employee said he asked the assistant manager about rehiring him because he does well for his job.
He's qualified.

Speaker 1 Why can't he work his job? And the assistant manager allegedly straight up told him, my manager said we can't rehire you because we already have too many Filipinos working in the store.

Speaker 1 He said, I was like, are you serious? She looked pretty uncomfortable and was like, yeah.

Speaker 1 Which leads to a class action lawsuit of discrimination. The attorney representing all the plaintiffs said, it was visually very easy to see what the plaintiffs were saying in this case.

Speaker 1 They say, in this case, I could go to the mall and verify what our client had told us, and so I did that.

Speaker 1 I would go into the Abercrombie store and look at all the retail workers there, and then I would go across the hall to another retail establishment, Old Navy, Banana Republic, or the Gap, and the contrast was just striking.

Speaker 1 One former employee said online, I cut my hair into a short afro and the next day at work, my manager immediately told me to go home because my hair no longer fit the approved styles in the company lookbook.

Speaker 1 They showed me all the approved styles, all of which I obviously couldn't replicate with a one-inch curly afro.

Speaker 1 It was very clear that when my hair was chemically straightened, it was approved, but that when I allowed my hair to grow naturally, it became a problem.

Speaker 1 As a young black woman, it definitely hurt to think that my natural look wasn't, quote, acceptable. They essentially refused to schedule me until I made my hair look white again.

Speaker 1 So I just kind of never showed up again. Allegedly, Abercrombie attorneys tried to argue that they were not fired due to racial discrimination.
They were fired because,

Speaker 1 for lack of better words, they were ugly.

Speaker 1 They just weren't good enough to work the floor. Ultimately, Abercrombie settled and they never admitted guilt.
Abercrombie did settle for $40 million.

Speaker 1 They paid out to thousands of people, so they didn't really make that much money.

Speaker 1 But Abercrombie, however, was forced to sign a consent decree, basically agreeing to change their recruiting, hiring, and marketing practices, meaning that they would have to report to a court-appointed monitor for six years, which sounds very serious.

Speaker 1 It sounds very committed, but it's not. Nothing happens if they miss a benchmark.

Speaker 1 They just had to hire a VP of diversity to promote diversity training for all employees with hiring authority, which again, doesn't really change anything because they just start calling front-of-house retail employees models.

Speaker 1 This is the loophole I'm telling you about. Because if you call them a model, you can technically discriminate on aesthetics.

Speaker 1 Models have to aesthetically look a certain way that fits the brand's image, whereas everyone working in the back of the store, stocking shelves, or in the back stock rooms, they were called impact employees.

Speaker 6 What does that mean?

Speaker 1 I guess they're impacting the store, but also impact, that's like basically saying diversity hire.

Speaker 1 Impact employees.

Speaker 7 That's crazy.

Speaker 6 So they got a lawsuit for discriminating. Yes.
And they're like, okay, I'm sorry. Here's some money and I'm going to do it again.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 8 Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 6 But smarter this time, quote unquote.

Speaker 1 It's a legal loophole.

Speaker 1 One former employee says, the idea was that calling their minimum wage retail employees models, Abercrombie could get away with anything that a modeling agency could get away with.

Speaker 1 They had to add an updated clause to their lookbook for employees that now reads, for example, head coverings including baseball caps are not permitted for certain purposes such as religion or disability.

Speaker 1 However, associates may be permitted to wear approved head coverings. And another statement that reads, diversity, Abercrombie employees represent American style.
America is diverse.

Speaker 1 We want diversity in our stores.

Speaker 1 Which is like

Speaker 1 the dumbest diversity blurb I've ever read in my life. A few netizens who allegedly work at Abercrombie during this time said nothing really changed by adding those clauses.

Speaker 1 One writes, I got written up for having a sunburn when I worked there. The seriousness of it all, just for me to be standing at the front of the store saying, hey, what's up, is absurd.

Speaker 1 Another netizen writes, I got a $20 class action settlement for working here during this policy, LOL crying face. which another netizen responds, all that for $7.25 an hour to ring up some clothes.

Speaker 1 There were petitions at the time stating Abercrombie's brand is discrimination. They rooted themselves in discrimination at every single level.
Side note, they really do.

Speaker 1 They were also sued for not having an accessible entrance to their store, one of their sister's stores, Hollister, violating their Americans with Disabilities Act, which side note, they tried to argue,

Speaker 1 technically it's fine, okay?

Speaker 1 There are steps, there's no ramp, there's steps.

Speaker 1 Which nobody that is wheelchair bound could potentially ever possibly use safely, but it's fine because, quote, Hollister is like a fantasy of Southern California.

Speaker 1 It's all about hot lifeguards and beautiful beaches, young and fun. Hollister never takes life too seriously.

Speaker 1 The reason that that specific store has no way for anyone with a wheelchair to get inside is because, quote, well, the entrance is supposed to look like an entry to a house in SoCal that you would walk up onto the porch or walk down onto the porch to enter like you do at a beach house.

Speaker 7 What are these arguments?

Speaker 1 The company's attorneys argued the stepped porches aren't discriminatory because they're visual displays that all customers, even disabled ones, can enjoy.

Speaker 1 The judge did not care.

Speaker 1 They are truly out here to offend and discriminate every single person known to existence except a small group of super skinny, super rich white people who probably, hopefully, were so offended that they don't want to be a part of that either.

Speaker 1 The alleged former manager that did the AMA on Reddit says: if a person talks, looks, or acts gay, they're not supposed to be hired. This company builds itself on people.

Speaker 1 People are its only advertisement, they say. The people they put on a pedestal are straight, clean, young, usually white, people with clear skin and natural looks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that means they must act and dress straight.

Speaker 7 That is crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 5 But still, like all of that.

Speaker 6 And they were hyped, so hyped for so long.

Speaker 5 Yes.

Speaker 5 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Is it because like maybe social media was in that event back then? So nobody can talk about these issues.

Speaker 1 I do think we have come a long way.

Speaker 1 I don't know if people who grew up in minority-dominated areas can resonate, but growing up in a white-dominated area, I definitely think that it was very normal to feel the pressure to be a part of that group.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but then nowadays it's like, oh, I love being me. Right, right, right.
Okay. But eventually, this all catches up to them.
And the first to fall is Bruce Weber.

Speaker 1 Some say the main photographer for Abercrombie at the time, Bruce Weber, they don't call him creepy Santa Claus for no reason.

Speaker 1 Those working with Abercrombie would later state and allege that there's something called being brucified.

Speaker 1 It's when a model model gets a call to come to Bruce's hotel room privately to talk about future modeling opportunities. Or you go on a long walk with Bruce.

Speaker 1 You know, when that person gets a call for a long walk, they're getting brucified.

Speaker 6 Wait, is Brucified in this lawsuit as well?

Speaker 1 Bruce is not. Bruce is not, though.
But he has his own lawsuits pending. Okay.
Civil lawsuits. Yes.
Many, like over a dozen allegations of sexual assault.

Speaker 1 Yeah, one model who worked with Bruce claims it's presented as an option, but it really isn't.

Speaker 1 Even nudity on sets, quote, the model that didn't go nude were always cut on day two, and those who did would stay for additional shoot days.

Speaker 1 The boys who would socialize with Bruce after the shoots alone in his hotel room would get booked for longer with a carrot of major campaigns being dangled in front of them.

Speaker 1 Sometimes models didn't even know why they had to be nude on set. It didn't even make sense.
One model who worked with Bruce said, it unfolded slowly.

Speaker 1 He's directing you and the peak of the moment is when you're fully exposed and being told to hold it, hold that pose and you're wondering, what are these pictures even for? Because you're not on set.

Speaker 1 You're thinking, this is not what I'm getting paid for. Unfortunately, it does indeed get worse.
Bruce allegedly had these breathing exercises.

Speaker 1 Many male models have come forward to say, yeah, that's not what the breathing exercises were. Let's be real.
They allege that Bruce would have the model remove all their clothes.

Speaker 1 The model would then place his hand on his own chest. Bruce would put his hands on top of the male model's hands, like they're in a strange naked prayer, except Bruce is fully clothed.

Speaker 1 Bruce Weber would allegedly have each of the models go lower and lower with their hands, as he's allegedly guiding them, but he's not.

Speaker 1 I guess if you really want to be technical, he's not really touching them.

Speaker 1 But allegedly, he said, the purpose of the exercise was so that the models could breathe and see how the energy flows in their body, and the energy seemed to always allegedly flow straight to their privates.

Speaker 1 Once they start rubbing their own genitals by coercion, by force, by choice, it's unclear. Bruce would allegedly take the male model's hand and eventually move it over to his own trousers.

Speaker 1 It's claimed he would have the male model rub his genitals through his pants by guiding their hands. One model states, I remember him putting his fingers in my mouth and him grabbing my privates.

Speaker 1 We never had sex or anything, but a lot of things happened, a lot of touching, a lot of molestation. But the models were told this was to help keep them vulnerable in a photo shoot.

Speaker 1 And that if they're vulnerable, they're going to go a lot further in their modeling career. If they're not vulnerable, you can imagine what happens.

Speaker 1 One former model says that he was on a photo shoot site. He gets a call.
Day three, photo shoot. There's a bunch of models there.
He says it was day three.

Speaker 1 All of a sudden, the phone rings, and I'm like, oh, I know what that is. Hey, Bobby.
So I'm sending a car for you to come over. And it's Bruce.
I want you to come over to the hotel and we can talk.

Speaker 1 And at this moment, the moment is like, I'm not going. Like, I'm going to go home or not.
Right. So I tell him, yeah, so I'm not going to be able to make it.
He was like, what? No, you have to come.

Speaker 1 It's going to be great for your career. So I'm like, yeah, no, I'm cool, Bruce, but thank you very much.
And all of a sudden, we hang up. My phone rings in probably one minute.

Speaker 1 Let's just say less than two minutes. It rang again and I was like, hello.
I pick it up and it's like, hey, Bobby, unfortunately, you're going to be cut and your flight is ready.

Speaker 1 Get your bags ready and then you have a flight out tonight. It was just like that instant.
It was done.

Speaker 1 One male model filed a lawsuit against Bruce Weber for inappropriate touching during a casting session. He said he was 28, Bruce was 69, a full 48 years older.

Speaker 1 He alleges that he goes to Bruce's house and Bruce immediately pressures him to take off his clothes.

Speaker 1 And ultimately, the lawsuit alleges Bruce forces the model to rub his own privates because he looks too, quote, tense.

Speaker 1 While the suit claims, Bruce is sitting there whispering creepy things like, if you just had the confidence, you would go really far. How far do you want to make it? How ambitious are you?

Speaker 1 Then Bruce allegedly put his fingers into the male model's mouth and kissed him on his way out of the apartment.

Speaker 1 That is not the only one that's spoken out about alleged misconduct by Bruce.

Speaker 1 Another male model alleges that Bruce kept telling him to dress completely nude for Calvin Klein, which the model didn't think made sense because what do you mean?

Speaker 1 He later realized the nude photos were for Bruce to show Calvin of Calvin Klein.

Speaker 1 I guess to approve or not approve? I don't know. But he alleged that it was very uncomfortable and Bruce would get mad when he said no.

Speaker 1 Also, he asked him if he and his brother could pretend to be boyfriends during a photo shoot, which they both refused because that's disgusting.

Speaker 1 They claim that when they said no, they were subjected to verbal abuse and they believe Bruce blacklisted them from the industry after that, which I'm not saying this as a fact.

Speaker 1 I would not be able to tell you that. But a female photographer, Jesse English, who spent a few years assisting famous male photographers, said, the attitude at the time on sets was insane.

Speaker 1 It was like this. If I need to touch you between your legs or grab your breasts so that you have the right look on your face, that's just the way it is.

Speaker 1 For example, one alleged victim states that after a casting, he left in sheer terror because allegedly Bruce tried to stick a male model's hands down Bruce's pants.

Speaker 1 When he tells Bruce's agent, the response was not what he was expecting. The agent just states, that's all he did?

Speaker 8 You should have gone further.

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Speaker 1 Bruce has since denied all the allegations, but the number of accusations netizens are quite suspicious. Additionally, they're wondering: did Mike Jeffries really not know?

Speaker 1 And if he did, how much did he know?

Speaker 1 One former model states, and we can infer from his statement that Mike Jeffries allegedly knew it all, he says, it felt like they were always implementing a new step in the process at Abercrombie, like during the photo shoots, one of which was you had to go into like this tent that was closed off and it was just Bruce Weber and Mike Jeffries in there.

Speaker 1 Literally, it was an interview to see if they liked your personality, who you were, and what you brought to the table. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Mike Jeffries is not the first person to think of the so-called genius idea of selling clothes by advertising people with no clothes on. But he's probably one of the richest ones that thought of it.

Speaker 1 In 2006, profits for Abercrombie were hitting $2 billion.

Speaker 1 In a single year alone, Mike Jeffries was making around $71 million, making him one of the highest paid executives in the world at the time.

Speaker 1 One journalist describes Mike Jeffries as the Willy Wonka of the fashion industry. They state, quirky, perfectionist, control freak.
One person says, you want to look at this guy?

Speaker 1 I mean, a lot of people say, look, he's weird. Certainly, he's probably insane, but he's also unbelievably brilliant and extremely driven.

Speaker 1 Another industry expert says, I think he is one of the greatest merchants in the United States.

Speaker 1 In fact, other merchants and designers and everybody honestly were trying to get in front of Mike to have him say, yes, this is sexy. That was the goal.

Speaker 1 People who worked directly with Mike Jeffries said, he was tireless. The guy was very energetic and boisterous.
He just never stopped working for the brand.

Speaker 1 Thinking about the brand, he would wear Abercrombie blue jeans, a navy blue polo shirt, leather flip-flops with a leather belt. He was an incredibly big personality.
He would explode in a room.

Speaker 1 But is he a mad genius? Abercrombie's whole approach isn't particularly original. Not saying it doesn't work, but the brand is a mixture of two.
It's a mixture of Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren.

Speaker 1 Calvin Klein was one of the first brands to merge youth culture and sex. They're selling sex.
Ralph Lauren is selling the all-American preppiness. So they merge the two.

Speaker 1 That's Mike Jeffries' great idea, I guess. Word association would be fraternity, boarding school, wasp, uppercross, preppy with money.

Speaker 1 One former employee would say, just aspirational enough, but not so expensive that it was out of reach. The fundamental idea is that fashion is selling us belonging, confidence, cool, sex appeal.

Speaker 1 You know, in so many ways, the very last thing that it's selling is actually the garments. Abercrombie sold a dream.
It was almost like your fantasy, like a young person's fantasy.

Speaker 1 Even the bags had the half-naked, ripped guys on there. Do you remember in black and white? You would see people walking around the mall with those bags.

Speaker 1 Some girls would cut out those guys from the bag and post them on their lockers.

Speaker 6 Oh my god, yes.

Speaker 1 Or cover their textbooks with them. I mean, he is, at the end of the day, a pretty good marketer.
He would have these posters in his office that had a line down the middle.

Speaker 1 This is what Abercrombie is. This is what it isn't.
What Abercrombie is, the dog is a golden retriever. It is not a standard poodle.
The Abercrombie College kid drives a Jeep.

Speaker 1 He does not drive a sedan.

Speaker 1 He would host little meetings around the fire pit to discuss how much money the company is making.

Speaker 1 The beginning years were around $165 million, then $235 million, then $335, $522, $816, and finally billions of dollars of sales per year.

Speaker 1 One retail marketing consultant said, it is one of the best examples of a brand that is incredibly focused and disciplined about its retail execution.

Speaker 1 It's very targeted, precise, executed, and nothing is left to chance. And obviously, sex sells.
Mike Jeffries says, I think what we represent sexually is healthy. It's playful.
It's not dark.

Speaker 1 It's not degrading. And it's not gay and it's not straight.
It's not black and it's not white. It's not about labels that be cynical and we're not cynical.

Speaker 1 It's all depicting this wonderful camaraderie, friendship, playfulness that exists in this generation and candidly does not exist in the older generation.

Speaker 6 But then, like, how did it all went downhill? Like, it was so hot back in the days. And then all of a sudden,

Speaker 6 it was gone. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're going to get in there.

Speaker 1 They used to have this Abercrombie quarterly magazine, which was just a picture book of very sexy photos. It said that in one quarterly, you could not see a sweater or a garment until page 122.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They just had a magazine.

Speaker 6 What does that mean? You don't see it until.

Speaker 1 Everyone's naked. Until page 122, you might see one sweater.
I see. I see.
An HR rep told an employee, I mean, you could ride Abercrombie with dog shit on a baseball hat and sell it for $40.

Speaker 1 That's where we're at right now. It's awesome.

Speaker 1 Fascinatingly enough, Mike Jeffries' career was not doing great until Leslie Wexner hired him as a CEO of Abercrombie, which is interesting because it makes you wonder why did he hire him then?

Speaker 1 The company that Mike Jeffries was CEO of was failing. Would you really want to make him a CEO of a company that you just purchased that is also failing?

Speaker 1 Unless there's another reason, maybe you guys have a deep, deep friendship and connection or something. I'm not saying there is.
I'm just saying it's very intriguing.

Speaker 1 Prior to Abercrombie, Mike Jeffries was the president of Alcott and Andrews, positioned itself as an upscale professional clothing line for women. They were failing for a lot of reasons.

Speaker 1 And it's just fascinating. Why bring a failing president to take over a currently failing brand? Maybe he saw something special in Mike Jeffries.

Speaker 1 If you ask Mike Jeffries, he'll probably give you a very PR answer. Mike would say that it all started when he was five years old.
He was growing up in LA where his dad owned a party supply store.

Speaker 1 Mike was obsessed with organizing, reorganizing, designing the windows and the counters. He would scream at his parents, we need another store.
We need another store.

Speaker 1 I always wanted to expand and get bigger. And I would get off on saying,

Speaker 1 why do we do the fixtures like this? Why don't we do it this way? That totally turned me on. Seemingly, working at Abercrombie would be the best career choice of Mike Jeffries' life.

Speaker 1 Not for everybody else, but for him. He's selling sex meets the Ivy League.
That's the vision. And they're bringing it all to the other sub-brands that Abercrombie creates.

Speaker 1 They start selling these little triangle push-up bras. That's what they call them.
Push-up bikini tops. They're striped.
They come in black, red, blue, just triangles and strings for $24.50.

Speaker 1 This becomes a whole controversy because the problem is this is in the newly launched Abercrombie Kids section for little girls 8 to 14 years old, which is not even the worst scandal they were on.

Speaker 1 On the contrary, they actually sold thongs for literal children. They had thongs and the phrases on there would say, eye candy, wink, wink.
Wow. What the hell is going on right now? Parents are upset.

Speaker 1 They're saying this gets young girls to think that about themselves in that way before it's even developmentally appropriate.

Speaker 1 To which Abercrombie released a statement saying, yeah, okay, we will take out the push-up part of the bikini, but you can still buy them.

Speaker 1 And the company responds, you think it's weird? You think it's weird that children wear stuff like this? You're weird.

Speaker 1 They state that the underwear was created with the intention of being lighthearted and cute. And if you think it's weird, then it's, quote, purely in the eye of the beholder.

Speaker 1 Mike Jeffries would even later say, that was a bunch of bullshit. People said we were cynical, that we were sexualizing little girls, but you know what?

Speaker 1 I still think those are cute underwear for little girls. And I think everybody who gets on a bandwagon about thongs for little girls is crazy.
Just crazy.

Speaker 1 There's so much craziness about sex in this country. It's nuts.

Speaker 1 I can see getting upset about letting your girl hang out with a bunch of old pervs, but why would you let your girl hang out with a bunch of old pervs? Just such a weird response.

Speaker 1 One journalist writes about Mike Jeffries, and for a man obsessed with creating a sexy and emotional experience for his customers, he comes off as oddly asexual.

Speaker 1 He is touchy-feely with some of his employees, both male and female, but the touch is decidedly paternal. Mike Jeffries has a wife and a son.

Speaker 1 The son is full-grown, and I believe he and his wife live separately. They're pretty separated.

Speaker 1 Because one person talking about Mike Jeffries said, when he ran Abercrombie, he always sold clothes to women and girls.

Speaker 1 But I think most people saw and responded to was the male image and the male form. And it appears that Mike Jeffries included.
Because it's a well-known secret that Mike Jeffries is gay.

Speaker 1 He has a blown-up torso, a man's abs hanging over his fireplace. Some people said, you just knew he was gay.
And he sort of became a gay icon in the fashion world. Him and his partner, Matthew Smith.

Speaker 1 Matthew Smith is a very, very private person. There's probably a handful of pictures of him out there.
Here's what the public does know about him. He is British.
Interesting, right?

Speaker 1 Another Jeffrey Epstein connection, Ghelene Maxwell. Perhaps 60 years old now.
Mike Jeffries was 20 years older than him. He's kind of seen as Mike Jeffries' shadow.

Speaker 1 He doesn't actually work for Abercrombie, but he was very influential in every decision in the company, which is fascinating considering he's not an employee executive or a board member, but he allegedly held considerable power.

Speaker 1 He was involved in all the internal meetings. One former employee says, I can't think of a time where Mike went anywhere independently without Matthew.

Speaker 1 He was the one that allegedly created the manual for the executive Abercrombie jet, which included 40 pages of highly detailed instructions, including what kind of underwear aircraft staff should wear, which again, reminiscent of Ghelane Maxwell.

Speaker 1 Which, side note, some employees were nervous about this.

Speaker 1 They said they were concerned because if Matthew Smith made a decision that would negatively impact the company, technically he would be cleared of responsibility.

Speaker 1 Aside from that, nobody really knew anything about Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith in their private lives. They say, if he has a life outside of work, it's not something people knew about.

Speaker 1 And they didn't until decades later later when he and Matthew Smith, along with James Jacobson, the man with no nose, are arrested for sex trafficking. So where does Abercrombie fall?

Speaker 1 In 2001, a new Spider-Man movie with Tony Maguire comes out. In the movie, there's this school bully.
He's not even the villain of the movie. He's just a school bully.

Speaker 1 He's an obnoxious, dumb, loud jock, like a caricature. Interestingly enough, in every single scene, he is purposely dressed head to toe in Abercrombie.

Speaker 1 One former employee at Abercrombie said, that's when he knew the brand was going to fail. That's when he knew.
Because that's not looking good. That's no longer a cool person.

Speaker 8 Really?

Speaker 1 However, one expert disagrees and believes that Twilight was the start of the downfall of Abercrombie. They said that after that movie, quote, pale, skinny hipsters were in trend, not beefcake dudes.

Speaker 1 Which is kind of a wild statement to make. But the point being, nobody cared for logos and branding anymore.

Speaker 1 In fact, wearing giant logos made you uncool, made you someone with no style, with your own personal taste. Bad quality probably didn't help either.

Speaker 1 One former employee said, we were forced to wear their leather sandals with no supporter padding. Over time, employees' feet actually flattened.
And then I hated wearing those tight pants or jeggings.

Speaker 1 They were so tight and you would get yeast infections and you can't move well enough to do your job. The dye on the jeans would actually make your legs turn blue if you wore them long enough.

Speaker 1 That's how the products were feeling, but they're asking for premium prices.

Speaker 1 On top of that, another former employee states, at some point, those kids that learned it wasn't cool to be bullied growing up, they grew up and they decided they didn't want to spend money at a place that made them feel bad.

Speaker 1 Exclusion just stopped being cool.

Speaker 1 There were these criticisms that Mike Jeffries is losing touch with keeping up with the customers changing taste. He didn't lower prices at all during a recession.

Speaker 1 Abercrombie and Fitch no longer felt cool and exclusive. It just felt expensive.
The brand was becoming frankly irrelevant.

Speaker 1 And shareholders were not happy that Mike Jeffries was leading the brand into irrelevancy, but was still paying himself $40 million a year.

Speaker 1 And I guess he could feel it, that he was going to get ousted because he just quit out of nowhere. After 22 years, he resigns.
Nobody hears from him again.

Speaker 1 His 22-year reign of the company is over, and he's not even walking away empty-handed. He leaves with a $27 million retirement package.
And now he is being charged with sex trafficking.

Speaker 1 There are civil suits filed against him as well, and it appears that he is going to be fighting all of them.

Speaker 1 He has pled not guilty, and I think likely the argument is going to be that everybody consented.

Speaker 1 What's so insidious about all of this is I believe there will be a lot of victim blaming coming from the defense on this one.

Speaker 1 During the BBC investigation, they reached out to Mike Jeffries for comment. His attorney said, Mike Jeffries is an 80-year-old man and retired.

Speaker 1 In the years past, he has chosen not to comment on media reports, documentaries, and stories of any kind as they relate to his personal life and does not plan on doing so now.

Speaker 1 Since his arrest, his attorneys have kept the same tone, stating, we will respond in detail to the allegations when appropriate, but plan to do so in the courthouse, not in the media.

Speaker 1 Many of the male models feel like it's going to be a very uphill battle.

Speaker 1 Barrett, one of the victims, says, I mean, no one was forcing me there with chains and pushing me into a room and ripping my clothes off the way that we often think of sexual abuse and it being violent, right?

Speaker 1 I wish it was that simple to say no. Did I want to kiss Mike Jeffries? No.
Did I want to engage in sexual activities in front of him? No.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 did I just want to leave? Yes. I think part of me disassociated.
So yeah, I didn't say no, but I fucking didn't say yes either. I didn't have control.
This experience, I think it broke me.

Speaker 1 I think this stole any ounce of innocence that I had left. It mentally messed me up.
But with the language I now have today, I can sit here and tell you that I was taken advantage of.

Speaker 1 Another victim states, on one hand, I guess I could have left at any point, right? There was nobody there with a gun to my head.

Speaker 1 But on the other hand, it was like, this guy is the gatekeeper and he's telling me he has the keys. I was so scared.
I just wanted it to be over.

Speaker 1 I was like, what do we do so that I can get this over with so that I can leave? Additionally, it's very hard for victims to come forward because they felt like it makes them look bad.

Speaker 1 One alleged victim states, there's an immense amount of shame associated with this idea that you're not a masculine man if you've been molested or taken advantage of by another man.

Speaker 1 One legal expert says, it's very normal that many of the victims went back. It's extremely common.
You know, the reasons you normally see for returning is one, I already did it. I did it.

Speaker 1 They broke me down. I have no self-worth anymore.
I have no self-esteem. I feel worthless.
Number two is the money. Okay, I got money.
Sometimes they were paid like $2,500.

Speaker 1 I want to make sure I can justify what happened to me. And the third is the carrot.
You've already come this far.

Speaker 1 You've already gone through something so terrible, but if you turn back now, you're not going to get the reward. You're not going to get the campaign.

Speaker 1 One male model turned journalist said, the industry grooms you for this kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 He says, you're told over and over and over again that if people don't want to have sex with you, how could you be a good male model?

Speaker 1 That means they don't find you beautiful, which means your whole career is kind of pointless because you're not a beautiful model. To the point where he says, I always wanted people to like me.

Speaker 1 I would almost get offended if they didn't want to have sex with me. That's how I got groomed.
That's how it worked in my mind. I didn't even realize how bad it was until I got out.
Wow.

Speaker 1 And when it happens, the models hate it. They don't want it, but they try to reason with themselves.
One casting director states, models are treated like shit.

Speaker 1 Just because some model posed for an overly sexualized picture, that doesn't mean he or she is who that picture is.

Speaker 1 It's a complete insult to anyone who has ever been put in a compromising position to say, anyone could have just walked away, gotten up. That is not true.
One victim states, Jeffries was the kingpin.

Speaker 1 If it wasn't for him, like none of this would have existed from what I can tell. It's alleged that this is what Mike Jeffries wanted.
He was the king of the castle.

Speaker 1 Matthew Smith was the one coordinating all of it. And James Jacobson, the man without the nose, was like a recruiter, like a little recruiting agent.
He never formally worked with Habercrombie.

Speaker 1 He was the intermediary. He would reach out to models and say, Hey, you want to meet the CEO? But first, you got to meet me in a hotel room before I let you go meet them.

Speaker 6 And he will essay them too.

Speaker 1 Allegedly, yes. One alleged victim said, It flowed like a business would flow.
It seemed very professional.

Speaker 1 I would wager that this involved a few hundred people, if not more, to coordinate all these these fake casting calls, hotels, flights.

Speaker 1 In a lawsuit from the victims, they allege, the venture had everything a sex trafficking organization needed.

Speaker 1 Funding, infrastructure, the appearance of legitimacy, and a complicit corporate institution. And I guess the feds are coming down now.

Speaker 1 One of the victims, David, was asked by the BBC what message he would have for Mike Jeffries and Matthew Smith if they're watching. And he says, Was it worth it? Was all of this worth it?

Speaker 1 Did you get what you needed? Do you remember me?

Speaker 1 Abercrombie, the company, has stated that they were not aware of the allegations of sexual misconduct and that their new leadership had transformed the company into, quote, values-driven organization that we are today.

Speaker 1 Some of the victims are not so certain.

Speaker 1 They believe there are allegations out there that Abercrombie, at least many of the employees knew, that there was some hush money paid out to some victims through Abercrombie's funds, but it's unclear.

Speaker 1 Side note, Abercrombie has shifted its brand imaging. They now sell women sizes up to 32.
When Mike Mike was in charge, they did not go above a 10. And it's working.

Speaker 1 Interestingly enough, Abercrombie was doing really well last year in 2023. Their stock performed better than NVIDIA in 2023.
What?

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No way. Fascinating.
They were the top performing stock in the S ⁇ P 500 index for 2023. You're kidding.
I'm being so for real.

Speaker 8 What do you mean?

Speaker 1 Yeah, they performed better than NVIDIA.

Speaker 6 So what happened? Like the store came back, just

Speaker 6 start killing it?

Speaker 1 They went viral with their sizing inclusivity and their new branding. They said that they were in a very interesting position because everybody already knew the name Abercrombie and Fitch.

Speaker 1 So they didn't need to bring awareness. They just needed campaigns to show the shift in branding.

Speaker 5 Wow.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 It's very interesting. People say that they are intrigued to see how it shifts again because their target demographic right now, their main audience are millennials.

Speaker 1 And they wonder how that'll work to now include Gen Z into their marketing.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Mike Jeffries has pled not guilty, which means, like I said, there's going to be a trial.

Speaker 1 And he has, interestingly enough, been released on a $10 million bond, which is a fifth of Diddy's bond proposal that has been rejected multiple times.

Speaker 1 I will say there's likely a few reasons why Mike's bond was accepted while Diddy's was not. First, being, I mean, yeah, we do have to factor in race.

Speaker 1 Diddy is a black man, Mike Jeffries is a white man. But a few other reasons could be severity of charges.

Speaker 1 They both have sex trafficking charges, which honestly, I don't think anyone should be let out on bond for, but Diddy's indictment lists a whole list of other severe charges, including racketeering, kidnapping.

Speaker 1 I mean, they're both serious, but Mike Jeffrey's indictment seems a little bit more limited in terms of scope.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying that the victims were less victimized, but I'm just saying in terms of the indictment and what the feds have, it seems limited in scope.

Speaker 1 There's also a belief, I guess this is the discretion of judges, that Diddy poses a stronger flight risk and a danger to the community.

Speaker 1 I mean, technically both are flight risks considering the amount of wealth that they've amassed, but I'm sure the video of Diddy in the hotel did not help his chances of getting bombed.

Speaker 1 If you're going to do that in a hotel hallway, I mean, it's very hard for a judge to say you're not a danger to society. And lastly, age.

Speaker 1 Some legal experts think because Mike Jeffries is in his 80s now, it was easier for him to get bombed. Honestly, I don't know if these are the reasons.

Speaker 1 It's hard to say when it's just two different judges. It could just be one of the reasons or many of them or all of them.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 But Mike Jeffries has been released on bond with an electronic monitor until his trial. The judge states to him, Mr.

Speaker 1 Jeffries, you are putting your family at a financial risk if you do not return to court.

Speaker 1 If the defendant does not show up to the court, your house will go into foreclosure and you will owe the government $10 million.

Speaker 1 Most netizens are shocked that it took this long for something to be done. They comment, never realized he was exposed long before he was arrested.
Poor victims.

Speaker 1 Falling like dominoes, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Another comments, Cat Williams wasn't joking about 2024.
Or, all these elites seem to have skeletons in their closet.

Speaker 1 It's only a matter of time till they fall from their ivory towers. Why are they just arresting all these people now? All these rings and crimes have been going on for a long time now.

Speaker 1 Which another netizen feels frustration that Mike Jeffries is so old and he's just now being charged. They write, I'm guessing he had been doing that for years.

Speaker 1 They always wait until they're on their dying beds to arrest him. He's got like two full years of life left anyway.
Another writes, a billionaire who is corrupt and does deplorable things secretly.

Speaker 1 What else is new? All these rich guys look like they would be into some weird things. Side note, I don't know if Mike Jeffries is a billionaire.
Some netizens are more focused on his looks.

Speaker 1 He looks like the monster Dr. Frankenstein created.
He does have some botched plastic surgery and fillers.

Speaker 1 And they comment, this, this is the guy that said ugly people shouldn't wear his company's clothes? He looks like one of those creatures off the hills have eyes.

Speaker 1 Innocent till proven guilty, but very guilty of bad plastic surgery. is another comment.

Speaker 1 Some netizens think that Diddy is the reason that he's going down, which just to clarify, the three in the indictment are, just like Diddy, innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, but also there's no proof that Diddy is involved in any way, shape, or form.

Speaker 1 But netizens are suspicious. They say, it's surreal when you realize the conspiracy theories weren't conspiracy theories at all.
One comment reads, well, looks like Diddy has a new cellmate.

Speaker 1 Another netizen brings up his connection with Epstein, writing, just say no to anyone named Jeffrey or Jeffries.

Speaker 1 One comment reads, people like Mike Jeffries and Sean Combs aren't the only ones out here participating in this type of inappropriate sexual predator and deviant behavior.

Speaker 1 There are others out there, they just haven't been caught yet. Or another comment reads: The bigger story is why cops ignored this for 30 years.

Speaker 1 This freak preyed on young men for over 20 years, and y'all wait until he's 80 years old to prosecute him. Fuck out of here.
They are facing 15 years to life in prison.

Speaker 1 Mike Jeffries is 80 years old, his partner Matthew Smith, 61, and James Jacobson is now 71. Yes.

Speaker 1 If you or anyone you know are victims of this case, call the FBI. They are still gathering leads and witnesses.
1-800, call FBI. 1-800, call FBI is the tip line.

Speaker 1 But that is what is going on with the ex-CEO of Abercrombie and Fitch.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well, like, he's 80,

Speaker 6 so it sounds like he's been doing this his whole life.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 6 And he almost got away with it.

Speaker 1 And yeah, he might still just get away with it.

Speaker 5 Right.

Speaker 6 That is crazy. And then like you said, like if even one operation hundreds people know,

Speaker 6 that means in his whole life, like how many people know? It just sounds like the whole industry is, they're so, so dark and there's so much of these type of things going on.

Speaker 1 It just feels like Hollywood, the entertainment industry, the fashion industry, there's these reckonings that keep happening. And I don't know if anything's getting fixed.
It doesn't seem like it.

Speaker 1 It just seems like you just wait until the next one falls and then it becomes a whole conversation discourse of like, we can't let this happen. And then it just happens again until the next one.

Speaker 1 I mean, I don't know. I don't know what an alternative would be.
Like we're just all on the outside thinking, how can this not happen again?

Speaker 1 What are your thoughts? Leave it in the comments and please stay safe and I will see you in the next one.

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