#393: Giggly Baby Face Killer Shows HS Friend CORPSE Asking “Are You Squeamish Around Dead Bodies?”

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Speaker 1 Ramble.

Speaker 1 Bada-bing,

Speaker 1 Some friend groups have tiers for emergencies. One friend group said online they have specific codes like the cops do for their emergencies.
971 is it's urgent. I'm at the store.

Speaker 1 I'm trying on an outfit and I'm waiting in the changing room while there's a line forming outside to see if I should buy these clothes and you need to help me.

Speaker 1 951 is you just found out that the person you went on two dates with has a full-blown family. 911 is you just found out that your dad has a a side full-blown secret family.

Speaker 1 Obviously, those are very extreme examples and I'm sure it doesn't apply to high schoolers, but the 10th graders that Carly hangs out with all had their little emergency system and that is to basically just mass text all of their friends telling them, my life is falling apart, you need to help me and quote, I fucked up.

Speaker 1 March 19th, 2024, that's exactly what 14-year-old Carly Gregg texts all her friends after school one day, and they start panicking. Recently, Carly had just been all over the place.

Speaker 1 She's been drinking Germex, the hand sanitizer. Technically, the whole thing was a prank.
They were like, hey, I dare you to drink the hand sanitizer as a joke.

Speaker 1 At least it was supposed to be a joke, but then she actually drank it.

Speaker 1 What?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and there was that incident where she brought a knife to school and then she stole the exam answers off the teacher's desk. Is she saying this is an emergency now? It's probably very serious.

Speaker 1 What's going on? Carly responds, I fucked up. I need help.
I need help. When one of her friends asks, why? I can't tell you why.
Another guy friend asks, should I call 911?

Speaker 1 To which Carly responds, you can't do that. One friend hops up on his bike and starts making his way over.
Another friend, she gets dropped off by her dad because this seems very serious.

Speaker 1 And when she gets to Carly Gregg's front door, Carly's standing there, she does not appear to be in the middle of an emergency. In fact, she seems calm.
So what was all of that?

Speaker 1 Carly asks her, are you squeamish? I need you to not freak out. I'm not going to freak out.
What's going on? You're not squeamish, right? Have you ever seen a dead body?

Speaker 1 Carly's friend shakes her head no, and Carly brings her into her bedroom where she looks down and on the ground of 14-year-old Carly Gregg's bedroom is a dead body.

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Speaker 1 As always, full show notes are available at rottenmingopodcast.com. A quick disclaimer, the defendant in today's case has been diagnosed by one with bipolar disorder.

Speaker 1 Other doctors disagree with the diagnosis, but just to be clear, just because someone has a particular mental health condition does not automatically make them violent.

Speaker 1 So with that being said, let's get into it. There's a part of trials that tends to go viral, and that's typically when defendants hear that they have been found guilty.

Speaker 1 In some cases, it might be just the raw human emotion. I mean, you're capturing this very intense, life-altering realization in real time.

Speaker 1 I mean, you witness a person processing the fact that their life as they knew it is effectively over. Maybe it's like a satisfying feeling you get as a viewer knowing that justice has been served.

Speaker 1 And sometimes these guilty verdicts become much more intense when you factor in polling a jury. That's a thing.
That's a thing. And it's quite brutal if you're found guilty of your charges.

Speaker 1 Because the judge reads the final verdict of guilty, then they're going to make you sit there while they ask each and every juror to respond to, juror number two, is that your verdict?

Speaker 1 Is that your verdict? 12 times you have to listen to most likely in a guilty verdict, each juror reconfirm, yes, you are guilty. You will spend the rest of your life rotting in prison.

Speaker 1 So polling a jury is just confirming

Speaker 1 the chip. Okay.
It's not done in every case, but when it is done, it's pretty brutal. But why do they do that? One of the sides will request it in advance.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Okay.
So it takes enough time. And I think the repetitive nature of it, I think it really starts feeling emotionally volatile for some people.

Speaker 1 And there is nothing you can do but watch as your fate has been sealed. You can't beg the jurors to change their mind.
You can't even talk to the judge.

Speaker 1 You also can't go and hug your family that's sitting behind you in court. You just sit there and you listen.

Speaker 1 For 15-year-old Carly, she has to sit there and listen to 36 different, is that your verdict? Yes, guilty.

Speaker 1 At first, with the judge reading guilty for her three crimes, she almost has no reaction. And then with each juror's confirmation, her face gets more red.
It's getting scrunched up.

Speaker 1 She starts sobbing. And in the span of five minutes, you see her go through a whole chain of emotions.
She hangs her head. She looks like she's trying not to act like this is happening.

Speaker 1 And then her whole body is shaking from crying. And then she just stares from the judge to the jury and almost this, this can't be happening.
I don't believe this is happening face.

Speaker 1 There's just no way. She keeps looking at her family sitting behind her, but they can't do anything for her.
Just six months ago, 14-year-old Carly Gregg is student of the year at her high school.

Speaker 1 She skipped a grade and was one of the highest academic achievers in her entire school. Everyone said she had a lot of friends and was quite popular.

Speaker 1 What happened since March 2024 and now September 2024 that she is now sentenced to life in prison at just 15 years old? You say there's 36 juries?

Speaker 1 There's 12 jurors, but she's convicted of three counts of a crime. Oh, so each person are asked, okay, three times.

Speaker 1 Three different crimes. She is found guilty and each juror has to be asked to confirm three different verdicts.
Wow, okay. Now, Carly Gregg, she really gets into trouble.
She's the smart kid.

Speaker 1 Her mom's the math teacher at their high school. Her name is Mrs.
Smiley, and she's like a fan favorite with the students.

Speaker 1 Carly's friends, let's call them Jason and Jenny, they start getting worried for Carly recently, March 2024. That's when everything starts feeling very unsettling.

Speaker 1 In fact, she's just acting very strange, more risky with her life. That morning in March, Her whole demeanor feels off.
She looks jittery, secretive, like she's hiding something.

Speaker 1 She's alone in the cafeteria and she spilled her milk. It's just weird.
It feels like she's smoking weed again. And this is very unlike Carly.
She was never really into drugs.

Speaker 1 This is the same girl that scored a 30 on the ACT already as a sophomore. That's higher than 93% of all test takers.

Speaker 1 And now she's smuggling in knives, getting caught, going to her teacher's desk, stealing and taking pictures of the exam, getting caught passing that around.

Speaker 1 This is just not normal behavior for Carly. Jason and Jenny, they come up with this plan.
Today, they're going to distract Carly and tell her mom everything. It's going to be an intervention.

Speaker 1 Will Carly Carly be mad at them? Probably if she finds out that it was them, but this is going to help her in the long run get her act together.

Speaker 1 The plan is Jenny is going to take Carly on a walk around the school, distract her after class. Jason is going to go visit Mrs.
Smiley's classroom and tell her what he knows.

Speaker 1 And Jason's smart with it. He even tells Ashley Smiley, Carly's mom, don't confront Carly about it today, that she's hiding weed vape pens in her bedroom.

Speaker 1 I just don't want her to know that it was me and Jenny that told you this.

Speaker 1 He thinks as long as Mrs. Smiley listens to him, everything will be fine.
Everything's going according to plan. School is dismissed.

Speaker 1 And as Jason bikes towards Carly's house to check up on her after school, he sees police cars all parked outside.

Speaker 1 That day from the morning the high school bell rang, a series of events would take place that would end in murder. Carly crawls out of the storm drain.

Speaker 1 You know those little parts next to the sidewalk that has a gaping hole in the ground? And you get nervous anytime your dog walks anywhere like 10 foot near it?

Speaker 1 you can crawl into those it's not advised it's for storm water to drain so that your street doesn't get flooded but you crawl out underground yes it's cramped it's confined there is typically a ladder it's typically very dark very cold there's probably lots of rats and very uncomfortable it's gonna smell incredibly foul down there and by the time she's crawling out there's people waiting for her She's soaking wet.

Speaker 1 I mean, considering the circumstances of, you know, crawling out of a storm dream, she's remarkably calm.

Speaker 1 She looks a little confused, a little uncomfortable around these strangers, but that's to be expected when you get arrested and your hands are getting swabbed for gunshot residue. And she's short.

Speaker 1 She's like maybe not even five feet tall at 14 years old. She's got this short brown bob.
She's wearing a nirvana shirt. And she asks the officers, what is this? It's GSR.

Speaker 1 It shows which hand you shot with. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 Obviously, you fired with a pistol, correct? Yes, sir.

Speaker 1 She's very polite, almost kind of nonchalant. Like, if you were to go to the hospital and they ask you to take your weight, it's uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 You're not feeling the best, but you're being polite and you're letting them help you. They ask her, which hand did you shoot with? Oh, um,

Speaker 1 I don't remember. And as they're swiping her hands, she asks, is my stepdad okay?

Speaker 1 I don't know, baby. I can't talk to you about that.
That's how a cop responds. I don't know, baby.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I do think he doesn't mean it strangely. I think it might be a southern thing.
This is in Mississippi.

Speaker 1 Now he says, I don't know, baby, I can't talk to you about that. Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 So are you okay?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm fine.

Speaker 1 The police step aside to talk to each other out of Carly's view about what just happened, discussing which facility they're going to take this teenage girl to.

Speaker 1 And one cop turns to the other and says, she doesn't even know about her mom. She's over here asking about, is my stepdad okay?

Speaker 1 When police were called to their house, they had found Ashley, the geometry teacher, Carly's mom, dead. Her stepdad, Heath, had been shot and Carly had been missing.

Speaker 1 She was found in the storm drain, not even like an hour later. So what happened? People don't know what happened.
The police need to figure it out.

Speaker 1 And all the answers are in this small camera that's hiding inside the refrigerator. It's not normally placed inside the refrigerator because why would one need a camera in the refrigerator?

Speaker 1 That's very odd. It's normally up on a high shelf in the kitchen.
So you can see the whole back door. You can see the kitchen.
You can even see a little bit of the living room just outside.

Speaker 1 But they find it behind stacks of water bottles in the kitchen as if someone was intentionally trying to get rid of this camera. In the refrigerator.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Because I guess the police would look in the trash. Is it like a ring camera type of thing? Yes.
And the police import the footage and they start watching.

Speaker 1 And I'm sure it's strange for authorities to watch footage from inside someone's house. It's just weird when you watch someone move about their space.
This is publicly available.

Speaker 1 I'll insert it in the video, but it's just, it's odd. Cause it's, I mean, these are actions that people have when they think nobody is going to perceive them.

Speaker 1 Their faces are usually different too, because they're not trying to smile or make certain faces because they're around people. They're just more relaxed.

Speaker 1 The police click open the first file from that day. And at this point, this is what the police know.

Speaker 1 Ashley and Carly may have had a tense car ride home, considering one of Carly's friends told Ashley that she was having problems with weed and had a burner phone and she had weed vape pens hidden in her bedroom.

Speaker 1 And it's likely that Ashley Smiley, the mom, was going to go look for those weed pens in Carly's room once they got home.

Speaker 1 And they know that Ashley Smiley, the mother, the math teacher, is found dead in Carly's room. So it's safe to assume that she's in there right now.

Speaker 1 when the video starts playing, because she's not in the video.

Speaker 1 You see Carly letting the family's two golden retrievers in from the backyard and she's walking in through the back door, but her demeanor is interesting. She's almost sneaking back in.

Speaker 1 She's walking through the kitchen, but she's careful about each step, trying to listen while quietly going towards the living room. She's standing in front of the living room.

Speaker 1 She pokes her head out to the right, then to the left, and then she listens briefly and then starts swiftly, quietly moving towards the left.

Speaker 1 She comes back into frame, holding something behind her back.

Speaker 1 Does she hear someone? Is it like a possible intruder? What's going on? At this point, the dogs are roaming around freely in the house. Their tails are wagging.
They're completely oblivious.

Speaker 1 They're having a good time. Is there an intruder? It doesn't make sense, right?

Speaker 1 You see Carly go from the left side of the hallway, pass by the kitchen to the right side of the house, holding what appears to be a gun behind her back.

Speaker 1 The camera? Yes. You don't see the gun that well because she's hiding it, but it appears to be a gun because right afterwards, you hear a loud gunshot.

Speaker 1 Then dogs start pacing. Then you hear a high-pitched squeal of some sort.
It sounds like someone had been shot and they're squealing. Then another two rounds go off.

Speaker 1 And for a brief moment, everything in the kitchen freezes. And then the dogs start pacing.
The dogs are so anxious, they're confused. They're trying to figure out what's going on.

Speaker 1 Carly walks back into the kitchen, calm.

Speaker 1 Like gunshots did not just go off in the house. Is she holding the gun?

Speaker 1 Behind her back. And she sits in one of the counter stools facing the camera and she places whatever was holding behind her back down on the counter, but you can't see it.
And it seems intentional.

Speaker 1 And she grabs her phone and starts messaging people. Her demeanor is very bizarre considering three gunshots just went off in her house she's hiding right from the camera yes

Speaker 1 that's crazy so she's aware the camera is recording right now everything she does is on camera

Speaker 1 that is so bizarre she hides her whatever behind she starts getting on her phone and her demeanor is very strange one of her pinkies is in her ear digging in her ear while she's messaging her friends that's just how casual everything seems

Speaker 1 and then you hear

Speaker 1 someone kind of moan for help, but I think because of where the gunshots were, it sounds like someone's last breath, but it almost sounds like a humming noise, like someone's singing.

Speaker 1 It's a little unsettling considering when you know in hindsight, but

Speaker 1 Carly perks up. She listens.
She's calm. She's like an FBI agent almost.
If I were watching a movie, I would think this kid is like an FBI agent at the scene of the crime, ready to go.

Speaker 1 She's alert, cool, calm, calm, collected. She's not pacing around like the dogs are.
She just grabs the gun from behind her back and then gets out of there, briskly walks to the right side again.

Speaker 1 In fact, the dogs are looking at her, trying to figure out what to do. They're terrified.
Their tails are down. They're very panicked.
And by the time that Carly comes back, her mom is dead.

Speaker 1 There's no gunshot, right? No. Carly goes to the kitchen, tells the dogs it's okay, and leads them back out to the backyard.
She does not look fazed, even in the slightest.

Speaker 1 It looks like she's just another kid back home from school, But she's texting her friends, it's an emergency, and one of them comes over and she asks, have you ever seen a dead body?

Speaker 1 Are you squeamish? I need you to not freak out. Do you want to see one?

Speaker 1 After showing her high school friend her mom's murdered body, she had been shot in the face. She shot her mom three times in the face.

Speaker 1 Then she asks her friend, can you wait outside in the backyard so I can quote, I put three in my mom and I'm going to put another three in my stepdad when he comes home.

Speaker 1 She had even taken her mom's phone and texted her stepdad, you almost home, honey? Question mark.

Speaker 1 Kylie Gregg, the little girl of the math teacher in high school, the one that skipped the grade because of how intelligent she is, she killed her mom in cold blood and tried to kill her stepfather too.

Speaker 1 So what the hell is going on in this house? I don't understand.

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Speaker 1 She She doesn't end up killing Heath, her stepdad. She ends up shooting him.
The bullet grazes his trap muscle on his shoulder, and he manages to wrestle the gun from her.

Speaker 1 And she flees the house, hiding in the storm drain. What's going on with the friend? Do we know? Do we have any details on what happened? Traumatized.

Speaker 1 They didn't expect to see a dead body, and now they're like, Carly has a gun, and she's telling me to wait in the backyard, so I'm just waiting in the backyard because I don't want to be shot if I'm running away.

Speaker 1 I mean, they didn't say exactly exactly like that, but it's pretty clear. That's what happened.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Now, when a 14-year-old kills anyone, one of the first questions is, okay, yes, but are they insane? Because any other option doesn't make sense. 14-year-olds aren't inherently evil, are they?

Speaker 1 I mean, how can they be? They look so young and naive. She must have some debilitating mental condition that makes her legally insane, right?

Speaker 1 Carly kept this journal where on March 12th, so a week before the incident, she writes, I think I had a psychotic break earlier. The whole ordeal was quite silly.

Speaker 1 I actually spoke with one of the voices in my head. Well, I didn't hear them until earlier today, but I only do then.

Speaker 1 My particular friend and I were practically screaming bloodthirstily and ravenously. I mean, thank God physical confrontation was not fruitfully possible.
I sound crazy.

Speaker 1 I need to get back into the habit of journaling. I think it's good.
I haven't quite decided if I will bring this stupid thing to my therapist tomorrow. I just can't decide.

Speaker 1 Then stuffed into that journal is a loose piece of paper that's been folded up and there's writing in the middle that reads, anywho, I don't think I'll make it any longer.

Speaker 1 Then scribbled all over the paper is, please help me, please help me, please help me in different fonts, different types of handwriting. I don't, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, please help me.

Speaker 1 When asked about this piece of paper, Karla claims she has no idea what anyone's talking about, making it seem like she does not recall writing anything like that.

Speaker 1 Then another page in her journal reads, what do I believe? There is no God. Heaven and hell are fake.
You don't need family. Writing your your own destiny, loving yourself, don't belong to anyone.

Speaker 1 Never be alone. Go to your place of comfort often.
Sometimes you must blend in, but never forget. It's okay to be evil.
Sometimes you must jump into the dark to truly see the light.

Speaker 1 Death is inevitable. Another one reads, water, fire, earth.
I choose fire. It's powerful, beautiful, and deadly.
Those are the traits I desire, so I choose fire.

Speaker 1 Another one reads, do I have schizophrenia? Am I having a psychotic break?

Speaker 1 And one that reads, I know one of y'all will read this journal.

Speaker 1 She then gives a guideline on gaslighting. She writes, take advantage, happy hurting, life's greatest illusion is innocence.

Speaker 1 And there in the middle of that page is a pencil stabbed hole where she writes, she stabbed it like Tom Riddle.

Speaker 1 which is Voldemort from Harry Potter, whose most famous line is, there is no good in evil. There is only power and those too weak to seek it.

Speaker 1 Allegedly, Carly thought one day she was going to be famous for making a nuclear bomb. I don't know.
So it's a lot to unpack. And maybe the prosecutors did not want to unpack it.

Speaker 1 They offered Carly and her legal team a plea deal. Plead guilty for shooting and killing your mom in the face three times and for shooting at your stepfather.

Speaker 1 Plead guilty and we will give you 40 years in prison. She'll be 54 when she comes out.
Or the other option is go to trial. It's your choice.
The ball is in Carly's park.

Speaker 1 And the judge tells Carly, think very clearly about this because either she gets the 40 years, she could be 54 when she gets out, or the jury could either acquit her, meaning she gets no time, or the court could sentence her to two life sentences for murder and attempted murder and tampering with evidence.

Speaker 1 She can probably get out even earlier than 54, no?

Speaker 1 They said 40 years, no parole, I believe.

Speaker 1 Carly stands before the judge and rejects the plea deal. That would probably be the third worst choice in her life.

Speaker 1 The first worst would probably be shooting her mom, then shooting at her stepdad, and now this.

Speaker 1 She now has to convince the jury, even with all that footage in the kitchen, the dog's going crazy, that she is insane. She was lost in her mind in those moments.

Speaker 1 She also has to sit there and listen to Heath, her stepdad, that she tried to kill but was unsuccessful, be alive, and sit on the witness stand to talk about what happened that day.

Speaker 1 Heath Smiley is Ashley Smiley's husband, Carly Gregg's stepfather. He testifies and his testimony has been quite controversial, I will say.

Speaker 1 He does appear to be quite lethargic during most of it, emotionless even. But remember, this trial is actually exponentially speedy.

Speaker 1 I mean, most murder trials, they take years for the prosecution and the attorneys to get through all the evidence and discovery and all of that. This happened six months after the crime.

Speaker 1 So it's very fresh. Everything is incredibly raw still.
He could be medicated. He could be emotionally guarding himself to protect himself.

Speaker 1 There's a lot of reasons he could not be emoting the way we want him to. But on the stand, he talks about how he and Ashley got married a few years ago in 2020.
They met in 2019.

Speaker 1 The way he describes his wife is super nice, real smart.

Speaker 1 He's not Carly's biological father, but he felt like she was his biological daughter. The whole family, they were still in this honeymoon phase.
They would go out.

Speaker 1 He would take Carly to karate lessons, guitar lessons. And then obviously everything changed March 2024.
He walked in through the door after work and saw a gun go off right next to his face.

Speaker 1 He was maybe in the door three, four inches. The gun was about a foot from his face.
The bullet grazed through his shoulder trap muscle area.

Speaker 1 And Heath's 911 call is played for the court where he does not sound like himself. The 911 operator kept calling him ma'am.
He's very incredibly distraught.

Speaker 1 It sounds like the adrenaline is overpowering and he can't even control his breathing. He isn't even able to tell the operator his address.
He's just screaming.

Speaker 1 He's screaming that his stepdaughter had shot him. He managed to take the gun from her, but she ran out the back door.

Speaker 1 And Carly is the most emotional during the entire trial when she hears Heath's 911 call. Probably more emotional than when she is being read her final verdict.
Really? Yeah. What was her emotion?

Speaker 1 Just snot dripping down her nose, sobbing. I mean, I can see potentially why.
I mean, when Heath discovers his wife, Ashley, is dead, he sounds a bit like a wounded animal.

Speaker 1 I mean, I say that to paint a picture for you. It's pretty heartbreaking.

Speaker 1 He screams, she killed her, she killed her mom, she killed her mom, she's dead on the floor of my daughter's stepdaughter's room, she's on the floor.

Speaker 1 When the dispatched officer arrives at the house, you can hear Heath screaming inside the house. He's finally able to open the door.
He can barely stand up straight.

Speaker 1 Once he gets out the front door of his house, he falls onto the ground. He has his back up against the wall.
He can barely talk.

Speaker 1 The officer runs inside, looks for Ashley, and when he walks out, Heath is laying on the floor on the porch. And six months after this, Heath is on the stand testifying.

Speaker 1 And a lot of the questions were about Carly's mental state prior to the incident. He says Carly's biological dad was just not a great person.

Speaker 1 He terrorized both Ashley and Carly, that Carly told them that whenever she went to hang out with her biological dad for required visitation custody, he would do really questionable things like blow smoke in her face, do drugs in front of her.

Speaker 1 At one point, she reportedly told Heath that her biological dad forced her to drink a beer when she was 12. He said Ashley would do anything for Carly.

Speaker 1 They had such a good relationship, but because Ashley had lost a child previously to a genetic condition, it seems like perhaps she was a tad bit more on the worried parenting side, which I mean, these days isn't the worst thing.

Speaker 1 Also, since her former ex, Carly's biological dad, struggles with drug usage, it seems like Ashley was very sensitive to anyone doing drugs around her, especially her 14-year-old child, for good reason.

Speaker 1 Ashley is in fact so scared of her first husband, the biological dad, she keeps a loaded weapon under the mattress of her bedroom.

Speaker 1 that's the one that carly grabbed to kill her mom which heath said he was shocked by he said that morning was as normal as it could be i mean everything was normal nothing was even slightly different at one point heath states after the chaos was over he realized the garage had a camera set up inside the garage.

Speaker 1 He went home after being released from the hospital. He found the SD card.
He tried to copy the card onto his computer. And he also called the police.

Speaker 1 But instead of copying the videos to his computer, it moved the videos to his computer. Then he found the camera hidden inside the fridge.
He called for the police for that as well.

Speaker 1 He did everything to be cooperative, but apparently the vibe he got back from authorities were that they were treating him strangely.

Speaker 1 The authorities gave him what appears to be lectures on, quote, tampering with evidence, because he had copied the files from the SD card.

Speaker 1 And he said that he stopped working with the authorities and hired an attorney at that point.

Speaker 1 He states that he loves Carly like his own biological child and believes the only reason she would have shot him was perhaps she did not recognize him.

Speaker 1 Maybe she thought he was an intruder or something.

Speaker 1 The prosecutors. So he saw the footage, right? Yeah.
The same footage you just described? Yes, but he's saying she must not have been in her right mind.

Speaker 1 The prosecutors ask Heath to identify the person in court today that shot at him. Point to that person in court.
They do this often. And he looks at Carly, points, and he smiles.
And she smiles back.

Speaker 1 And they both smile at each other because Heath is in full support of his stepdaughter.

Speaker 1 There is a lot of discourse about Carly's stepfather, primarily because there's this one clip that's going viral where Heath is in court, he smiles at Carly, and I don't know what he mouths, but it sounds like he mouths I love you to her.

Speaker 1 Which, I mean, stepdads love their stepdaughters, but I guess people just thought it was weird. So there is a lot of discourse about the stepdad.

Speaker 1 And I do want to mention that this is not normally something I would include in one of our episodes.

Speaker 1 I think it's really dangerous to talk about these types types of theories that have no proven basis yet or ever, but it's just such a big part of the discourse of the case that it would be nearly impossible to bring you a comprehensive overview of what happened without including it.

Speaker 1 And a lot of it has to do with the interactions during the trial.

Speaker 1 Now, I don't think most of us are trained behavior analysts, nor do we know these people personally, nor do we have access to their personal devices. So keep that in mind.

Speaker 1 These are just theories circulating on the internet. Heath Smiley is not a known suspect of any sort of crime.

Speaker 1 In fact, he is a victim in this case, unless there's any new developments that suggest otherwise, which I don't know if there will be. But until then, he's honestly just a victim.

Speaker 1 And these theories are a little unhinged sometimes. So there is this wildly circulating theory that somehow Heath is involved in the murder.

Speaker 1 Again, just to reiterate, this is a pretty high-profile case. If there was evidence he was involved, I would have to hope that law enforcement would have found it.

Speaker 1 And I just don't see why they would do anything to protect Heath.

Speaker 1 But theory that is mainly based on gut feeling and court clips, some netizens think there's no way that Heath is able to forgive Carly for something like this. There's just no way.

Speaker 1 There have been arguments by netizens who state, even if that was your biological child that killed your wife, it would be hard to forgive.

Speaker 1 And they're saying like as parents, I'm saying this, I'm not a parent, I wouldn't know.

Speaker 1 They say, even if this was a stepdaughter that you raised from birth since she was a day old, it would be hard to forgive.

Speaker 1 But they state it's even stranger when you realize that Heath only met Carly and Ashley in 2019. So Carly was maybe around 10 years old, 11 years old.
I'm sure they've bonded.

Speaker 1 I'm sure there's a strong relationship, they say. But they argue that it's just not enough time, they believe, to form a bond so strong that you would want to stand by her side through all of this.

Speaker 1 Not only did she shoot and kill your wife, she tried to shoot and kill you.

Speaker 1 Would you really have such a strong bond to this child that you raised?

Speaker 1 A lot of parents were commenting saying, even if my biological child that I birthed and raised from the minute that they came out of me if they tried to shoot and kill me i don't know if i could forgive them

Speaker 1 would you really have such a strong bond that you raised after four or five years this child that you would rather than your own self-preservation people are saying if she's free she could easily try to quote finish the job if you will and kill him Netizens are also confused by the fact that there was a protective order put in place where Carly and Heath were not allowed to communicate for Heath's safety.

Speaker 1 But Heath, the stepdad, requested it for it to be lifted. He has been speaking with Carly ever since while she's been in prison awaiting trial.
They talk nearly every day, it appears.

Speaker 1 Then there's the whole thing with the SD card being copied onto his computer and the police having to have a conversation with him about tampering with evidence. He lawyered up after that.

Speaker 1 Some netizens thought that in addition to everything that else is strange, the SD cards is strange. What if he wanted to make sure there was nothing on there?

Speaker 1 But just to clarify, Heath was never considered a suspect. A few other parts that netizens point out is obviously the fact that he's forgiving forgiving of Carly and that he's supporting her.

Speaker 1 But later when the defense asks him what his wedding day to Ashley was like and how Carly was that day, he says Carly was just her normal, wonderful self all day.

Speaker 1 A lot of netizens think just the way he describes Carly to them does not come off as very honest, but overly perfect. They feel like he fully works for the defense in trying to help her.

Speaker 1 He's bringing up stories of how smart she is, how friends depend on her. She's so sweet, so happy, so bubbly.
She loves the dogs.

Speaker 1 One netizen writes, there is no way she was this calm, peaceful, and sweet all the time. She was taking medications, getting therapy, self-medicating.
I mean, something was clearly wrong.

Speaker 1 So what is this? One netizen writes, defense will love his testimony. No justice for his wife.
Only Carly, I guess.

Speaker 1 Others state that Heath smiles more when he talks about Carly than when he talks about his own wife, Ashley. I did notice it, but I did notice it once someone pointed it out.
So I don't know.

Speaker 1 One netizen writes, I don't think I'm accusing him of anything inappropriate, just stating that he's acting very strange. It's weird.

Speaker 1 Defending the child you only knew for three years that tried to kill you.

Speaker 1 Now, others argue that not everyone has to be skeptical of innocent people and victims.

Speaker 1 They argue, yes, these types of cases have happened before, where stepdads will groom the children and then might even try to get them to kill the mom or a foster child will, you know, there have been some cases of that.

Speaker 1 It's a lot. But they argue, even when he's talking about their family life, it just seems like a man who actually enjoyed his new life with his family and his new kid.

Speaker 1 He talks about how he and Ashley surprised Carly with their second golden retriever.

Speaker 1 It just sounds like very fond memories for him, which they find enduring that he and both Carly are able to think back to those positive memories.

Speaker 1 Other people are saying, this is just unfair that you're accusing him because, first of all, he's a victim. There's no proof.
And if there was, law enforcement would have found it by now.

Speaker 1 And second of all, it's almost perpetuating this narrative that stepfathers cannot love their stepchildren without being creeps.

Speaker 1 So they're saying it's just, why can't we just be nice parents and not be misconstrued as creeps that are trying to groom their stepkids?

Speaker 1 I mean, they're both smiling when he's talking about it. And if you listen to the footage they released in court, you hear him get shot.

Speaker 1 Yeah, in the garage footage, you hear a bang go off and then you hear screaming and then a few more bangs go off and then you see Carly and her friend running, jumping the fence from the back door.

Speaker 1 Also, the 911 call, I mean, That was a very intense 911 call. I just don't know how someone would fake that kind of emotion.
If he did, that's an Oscar winning performance.

Speaker 1 As for getting an attorney, it makes total sense.

Speaker 1 They say you don't want to talk to a police officer without an attorney present, as well as the fact that they took his ID and didn't give it back to him.

Speaker 1 And they kept giving him these weird lectures of tampering with evidence when... If he was suspicious, why would he even call them about the SD cards? The police weren't even looking for SD cards.

Speaker 1 They didn't even know the existence of these cameras. So it's not like, where are the SD cards? He called it and then willingly gave it to them.

Speaker 1 So they're like, no, he's never even been considered a suspect. These group of netizens comment, if you have ever had severe trauma or PTSD,

Speaker 1 I mean, you know not to judge this man. You detach, you learn to compartmentalize the trauma.
Another one reads, this is a trauma response. It's called compartmentalizing.

Speaker 1 Stop victim shaming and blaming. Another one reads, everyone really needs to stop with the accusations against the stepdad.

Speaker 1 If you don't think that detectives and prosecutors haven't already checked out that angle, you're nuts.

Speaker 1 Further, if there were something there with the stepdad, her defense attorneys would be using it as part of her defense because then she could say that she was coerced or manipulated into doing these things by another adult.

Speaker 1 Another suspects that he might just be very medicated right now. And I will say, I think it would be really hard to fake that 911 call.

Speaker 1 One net is in comments, the grief in his cries for his wife is earth-shattering. Or, I don't feel that he's covering up or hiding anything.
I think this is a man destroyed. He's just numb.

Speaker 1 He's answering all the questions asked. That's my opinion.
Others think not only do they feel bad for Heath, but it just shows how good Carly is at manipulating people. She fooled her friend.

Speaker 1 She tricked her mom, her psychiatrist, and now her stepdad, especially because he's in such a vulnerable state, he might feel almost to a degree trauma bonded to Carly.

Speaker 1 In a sense, Carly might be the only other person that went through what he went through that day.

Speaker 1 Or maybe even helping her will give him a purpose to try and offset the bad, some netizens have speculated.

Speaker 1 Or perhaps it's the guilt of missing your wife and knowing that perhaps Ashley would not want her daughter to be rotting in prison for the rest of her life.

Speaker 1 One netizen comments, I feel he's being manipulated by Carly and is making himself look like a creep for defending her. Which many netizens can see.

Speaker 1 Just the way he talks about Carly, it sounds like someone who has been charmed almost.

Speaker 1 When he talks about how intelligent she is, he states, she was always complaining to us that kids constantly bug her for help with schoolwork because she can do all of it so easily and she can explain it to them better than most teachers.

Speaker 1 And she got so tired of them coming to her for stuff. She loves school, but she was almost bored with school a lot of days, even though she was in the advanced classes.

Speaker 1 She was a light year ahead of everything they're teaching. You know, anything new she picks up and just wants to be a step ahead of the teachers.

Speaker 1 At one point, the defense attorney asks, In all the time that you've known Carly, would you describe her as callous?

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 1 Calculating?

Speaker 1 No, not except, um, except with math.

Speaker 1 And he smiles, and Carly smiles.

Speaker 1 So Carly's grandparents have also been in attendance. Ashley's parents, it seems.
She smiles at them whenever she comes into the courtroom.

Speaker 1 So people use that as proof that Carly's just very manipulative, it seems. Do we see the grandparents' reaction? Yes.

Speaker 1 Not in the high emotional moments, but when she smiles at them and they're typically stoic and smiling back.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 There might be a legal aspect to all of this too. Some people say, no, he's not defending Carly because he is like doing something weird with Carly.

Speaker 1 It might be because he's trying to protect himself. Technically, the gun used to shoot Ashley is registered to Heath.

Speaker 1 Heath knows that prior to this, she was seeing a therapist and Carly was mentally unstable. Some netizens believe that could fall on Heath.

Speaker 1 He could get some sort of charges for having his gun so easily accessible because recently with all the other happenings, the school shootings that has been the case where parents know that their children are mentally unstable and still let them have access to weapons, they also get charged, which rightfully so.

Speaker 1 But some people think he's doing this defense of like, no, nothing was wrong, nothing was wrong, so that he doesn't get legally held potentially for having her have access to these weapons. Wow.

Speaker 1 So some people are saying it's not a weird thing. He's doing this for his legal thing.
And that's probably why he also got an attorney. I don't know about this theory.

Speaker 1 I don't know if the police would have charged him with anything, but a lot of netizens have been pointing it out. Also, there were a lot of guns in that house.

Speaker 1 There was also a shotgun and an AR unloaded, but in the closet.

Speaker 1 But still, one netizen writes: Hearing that the gun was unsecured under the bed, it feels like all of this could have been prevented or reduced with proper gun safety.

Speaker 1 So that's one of the theories. And then I will say, a good chunk of people fall into the category of, I don't know, but it's definitely weird.

Speaker 1 They comment, very weird reactions from the stepdad, but I guess people deal with trauma differently. I don't know.

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Speaker 1 One of the reasons that this case starts going viral recently is not just her interactions with her stepdad, whom she tried to kill, but Carly has very interesting court appearances and she just behaves a bit interesting.

Speaker 1 A lot of netizens have opinions on how she looks, what she's wearing, how she cries. So people point out that she was arrested in a Nirvana shirt and her hair was in this almost sporty looking bob.

Speaker 1 But now she's got this bob with bangs. She is kind of leaning into this doll girl type of aesthetic.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Obviously, nobody expects her to show up in court with her nirvana shirt on, but some netizens think that she's clearly, clearly dressing in a way that is very reminiscent of Catholic schoolgirl outfits.

Speaker 1 Plaid dresses, collar dress shirts, cardigans with gold buttons all the way, frilly sleeves. Some netizens comment, who thought dressing her up like an eight-year-old would be believable?

Speaker 1 I don't know. The outfit makes her look more evil.
The little Catholic schoolgirl thing does not work on us.

Speaker 1 They also say with her hair, the short hair with the bangs and the outfits, they say she looks like the girl from the movie Orphan, which makes this creepier. But some commentators think it's working.

Speaker 1 They write, I mean, she's got that little pumpkin face, this little bob. She looks very innocent.

Speaker 1 Others make comments about how the defense is working overtime with her styling saying, surprise they didn't just put her in something pink with unicorns on it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, so that's, that's been a huge topic of conversation. I will say her baby face is kind of out of this world.
She does look a lot younger than she is.

Speaker 1 And defense attorneys to their defense will coach their clients on what to wear, how to dress. But more so than her attire, I think it's her demeanor.

Speaker 1 I mean, the first day she looks a bit more distressed, but other than that, most of the time she looks like she's seen crazier stuff, like more exciting stuff.

Speaker 1 She looks like she's in the pews of Easter Sunday church sermon.

Speaker 1 She looks kind of disinterested. One of the times she's very emotional during Heath's 911 call when that's played.
She's pretty engaged when Heath is on the stand.

Speaker 1 And she's the most locked in when the defense expert, the psychiatrist, goes up there to talk about how mentally unwell she is.

Speaker 1 What is she doing? She's just locked in? Locked in.

Speaker 1 So fascinating.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Like what are they saying? Just talking about her. Just that she has potentially schizophrenia.
She's bipolar. She was not of her right mind.
And she's just locked in. But not, the locked in is weird.

Speaker 1 The locked in is almost, it's, she's fascinated by how someone perceives her, how this expert perceives her.

Speaker 1 There is an authoritative look to her when she's locked in. It's not like, oh my gosh, I'm so nervous.
What's happening? Like, I don't understand these words he's saying.

Speaker 1 It's almost analytical studying, which is kind of, it was a little creepy at times. Yeah.
It was a little unsettling. She does giggle and smirk a lot during the trial.
There was one time.

Speaker 1 Okay, there was one where the

Speaker 1 prosecutor's expert. went up there and he's talking about, yeah, I don't think she's crazy.
I read through her journals. I spoke with her.
I'm a psychiatrist. I don't think she's crazy.

Speaker 1 And like the whole Tom Riddle thing, that's from Harry Potter. And he's talking about the connections with Harry Potter and all these villains.
She seems to have an obsession with villains.

Speaker 1 And she just smirks. A full smirk.

Speaker 1 Not even like a, huh? Smirk, like a full smirk.

Speaker 1 Sometimes she's giggling. with her attorneys.
I don't know if they're writing something, but she'll just giggle.

Speaker 1 She scribbles something on a piece of paper, her defense attorney, and I don't know what the context is, but she thinks it's hilarious and she just starts giggling. It's just not appropriate.

Speaker 1 Another point of frustration for Nettison's is she really only cries when someone calls her a victim of some sort. She just can't help but cry.

Speaker 1 And there are other times when her defense attorneys talk about how close she is with her mom. She starts blinking rapidly.

Speaker 1 Her lips get thin and she starts nodding up and down like, Yes, yes, we were. A lot of people feel like it's very forced.
You tell me. She also does this thin-lipped looking down shy smile

Speaker 1 when the defense like talks about her grades and how smart she is. Like, oh, stop, stop.
I'm embarrassed.

Speaker 1 Or when the defense talks about how she's not a deranged child, she's not a troubled child. She does these strange little like no head shakes and her lips are thin.

Speaker 1 Like she's trying to cry and she just shakes her head. No.

Speaker 1 It's just, it feels like she's very performative for the jury.

Speaker 1 And it just doesn't feel natural. A lot of the comments.
Not working. No, a lot of the comments read me when I force myself to cry.

Speaker 1 Sometimes she'll have these moments where she just looks straight into the camera of the live streaming court stuff where it just feels like she's breaking the fourth wall.

Speaker 1 The whole thing is unsettling. She'll just stare straight into the camera.
Many netizens also point out that she just cries at weird times.

Speaker 1 I mean, she could be in her head, but she'll just start busting out into tears while they're swearing in a witness, like a random witness, like a police officer.

Speaker 1 who's probably not going to say anything crazy, but she'll just start crying while they're being sworn in.

Speaker 1 It's just very odd.

Speaker 1 On top of that, when a state witness, so her opposition, if you will, if they state something about her that puts her in a negative light, she'll just sometimes smirk here and there.

Speaker 1 And then she'll like take these side glances to her stepfather who's sitting in the court supporting her and then they'll smile at each other and her behavior is definitely unsettling and it's not working in the defense's favor because their whole argument here is that Carly is insane.

Speaker 1 They state that prior to this, Carly has,

Speaker 1 they're saying she is like the poster child of for someone who might have a psychotic break. They're saying that her biological father is bipolar.

Speaker 1 Now, the state brought up an expert who said, well, I went through her father's.

Speaker 1 medical records because I was allowed to, and I saw that he had a one-hour consultation with a doctor and they diagnosed him with bipolar disorder, bipolar two, to be exact.

Speaker 1 But one hour is not enough. And that same doctor prescribed him Adderall, which is an ADHD medication.
And this psychiatrist for the state is saying that is not common.

Speaker 1 When you have someone with bipolar two, you would be very, very hesitant and careful to prescribe a controlled substance like Adderall. The defense also states that her dad is schizophrenic.

Speaker 1 And they state that that means Carly has a higher chance of being schizophrenic, but he has never been diagnosed, at least from what the state could find of having schizophrenia.

Speaker 1 They state that prior to this, Carly was seeing a therapist here and there for a a few weeks because she was just having bouts of depression. She just became very lethargic.

Speaker 1 Her mom was really worried about her. She would go see this therapist like once or twice a week, never mentioned hearing voices.

Speaker 1 But suddenly in prison after the murder, she reports that she's been hearing voices since she was a little kid. The state's experts argue that's actually not very realistic.

Speaker 1 People don't start hearing voices when they're seven years old.

Speaker 1 Maybe it's an internal monologue that they mistake as a voice in their head, but these hallucinations don't come in that early and that consistently.

Speaker 1 They also state that Carly was put on antidepressants. She was first put on Zoloft and that made her feel like a quote zombie.
They switched her medication to Lexapro.

Speaker 1 They think that that medication switch also caused a psychotic break in her head. The state is arguing Lexapro usually causes self-exit ideations, not homicidal ideations.

Speaker 1 So this just doesn't make sense either. Like, are we really pulling the Lexapro defense? Because it doesn't really work.

Speaker 1 The defense also states the weed, the self-medicating, was also very volatile for her mental state, which most people argue it's just weed. She should not be doing it at 14, but it's just weed.

Speaker 1 And a lot of comments were saying if she was doing meth, cocaine, crack, all these things, I might be like, okay, yeah, that could probably cause a psychotic break.

Speaker 1 But weed, people were saying it doesn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 They also state that coupled with sudden disappointment that she knew her mom was feeling because on the way home, she found out that her mom found out that there were vape pens in her room, she didn't want to feel that disappointment because she loves her mom so much that it rendered her into a state of psychosis and then she murdered her mother in a state of psychosis.

Speaker 1 So would I say out of all the insanity defenses that I've researched before, is this a good one? I would say it's probably one of the worst ones.

Speaker 1 Worst ones. Especially for a 14 year old, I feel like you could have done an okay job considering her age.
What do you mean you could have done an okay job? Because she's already 14.

Speaker 1 She's been in therapy. I feel like there would have been a lot of ways for a good defense attorney to try and spin a whole story about how she's unwell.

Speaker 1 I don't think it would have been believable in the end, but these defense attorneys were very questionable. Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think they were probably, yeah, one of the worst defense attorneys I've seen.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And the biggest thing is the defense states that before Carly shot her mom, she blacks out, doesn't remember coming home.
Okay. She gets home, blacks out, shoots her mom.

Speaker 1 She comes to in the storm drain. She crawls out of the storm drain.
But the state points out the fact that in the body cam footage, her hands are getting swabbed and then she confirms it's a pistol.

Speaker 1 She asks about her stepdad. So they're asking, okay, how could you black out and still remember those things?

Speaker 1 Additionally, her psychiatrist is stating that she is having these nightmares where she hears gunshots go off. And this is in prison while she's awaiting trial.

Speaker 1 Now the state argues, if you blacked out, you don't remember. So why would you have these PTSD-like dreams about it?

Speaker 1 If you don't recall that, if that's not something that you did, how could you have nightmares about it?

Speaker 1 And then also they argue that her journal, it sounds like someone who wants it to be read. It sounds kind of like

Speaker 1 a little kid reads a book on psychosis and then writes a journal about it. And the journal was written all like recently? Yes.
Like how recent was it?

Speaker 1 Within the oldest entry I think they brought up into evidence was maybe a few months old. Oh, there was one

Speaker 1 in 2023. So like 11 months before she allegedly wrote, I'm a schizophrenic person.
I'm crazy. I miss the comfort of being sane.
I just want to find true love. Then maybe I wouldn't be so crazy.

Speaker 1 I'm scared. I need help.
Something along those lines.

Speaker 1 And the psychiatrist for the state was like, again, it just sounds like every symptom in the book that she's trying to replicate into this journal. It sounds very villainous.

Speaker 1 All these things are a little bit odd. And it just, and the way that she writes about hearing voices, she writes, it's silly, actually.

Speaker 1 The state psychiatrist says, if you've met anyone with auditory hallucinations, they would never trivialize it. They would never say, it's silly, actually,

Speaker 1 because these are real to them. It's so traumatizing.
It's so haunting for them. They're terrified of these voices.
They're not going to downplay it and say, I'm just so silly. I hear these voices.

Speaker 1 I see. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And also, Heath, his whole argument in support of Carly was trying to argue that it seemed like Carly was out of her mind. She didn't even recognize him when she shot at him.
That's how he says it.

Speaker 1 But she did text on her mom's phone, you coming home, honey? Like, it's very clear that she's luring him in.

Speaker 1 Additionally, one of the main notes of her psychiatrist that was seeing her prior to the murder was that Carly reported being angry with her friends because they weren't as serious as her.

Speaker 1 The psychiatrist wrote, she never reported hearing voices. She was just kind of rude to people she felt were not as smart as she was.
She felt like she was losing patience with her teachers.

Speaker 1 It seems like she gets off on being better than others.

Speaker 1 She would tell her therapist in almost a bragging way that she was reading Crime and Punishment, which is about a main character who is obsessed with his own intellectual superiority that he starts planning to murder someone to get away with it.

Speaker 1 And he does in fact murder someone and his whole life starts unraveling. He descends into a very scary state of paranoia, self-loathing.

Speaker 1 He's being hunted by a detective till he's ultimately confessed and is sentenced to hard labor. And they report that she does seem to have these very strange

Speaker 1 wants to appear a certain way. But that was about it.
Other than that, she seemed a little depressed. The state argues, Carly likely heard her mom in her room finding her vape pen.

Speaker 1 That's why she was listening. Then she walks with purpose quickly directly to where the object is that could kill her mother in her mom's room is the gun under the mattress.

Speaker 1 To me, that sounds like an intact motor function. It shows coordination and it suggests a specific intent.

Speaker 1 She did not walk to the kitchen and grab a banana, which is something that many psychotic patients would do, like when they're in psychosis, in a state of psychosis.

Speaker 1 A lot of the times when people are in a state of psychosis, they don't harm others. They end up harming themselves by accident.

Speaker 1 She walks directly to where the sole object is that could kill her mother, retrieves it, in a very methodical manner, she peeks around the corner while hiding this object.

Speaker 1 These are high-functioning things that take several areas of the brain. It's almost predatory, in my opinion.
That is the statement of the states expert.

Speaker 1 And even with the two shots to Ashley's brain, he believes it takes marksmanship that shows a high level of brain functioning to shoot someone in the head like that.

Speaker 1 He says if he were to describe the crime, the psychiatrist states the word would be diabolical.

Speaker 1 And in fact, he states Carly is actually quite charming and manipulative in a sense. He says, she's very likable.
I liked her. I don't like saying any of these things.

Speaker 1 Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Wow. So with the closing statements, the defense states, if Carly is so diabolical, so smart, so callous, why is this so dumb?

Speaker 1 Essentially, they ask, nothing about this looks like a well-planned out scheme. Much of what she did seems senseless.
Why plan to shoot your stepfather and invite friends over? That makes no sense.

Speaker 1 Why wouldn't she immediately just run away? I hope none of us are ever judged by the worst moment of our lives, but rather our whole lives as a whole.

Speaker 1 And when you look at the facts of this case as a whole and the picture of who Carly Gregg is on the whole, you'll see this wasn't a bad kid. This wasn't a kid who was enraged.

Speaker 1 This was a kid experiencing significant mental health issues and health issues that were running in her family that we know are hereditary.

Speaker 1 This is a kid that was compliant with the medication that she was put on. However, that medication caused her symptoms to worsen.

Speaker 1 And while she was having a state of psychosis, in that episode of acute stress, she lost herself in what was the perfect storm.

Speaker 1 I'm asking you for those reasons to please find Carly Gregg not guilty by reason of insanity and finally quell this storm for Carly Gregg and her family.

Speaker 1 The prosecutors state, the defense wants you to believe that from... The time she took the dogs out, she blacked out.
Well, that's a real convenient time to be blacked out.

Speaker 1 But she still has the wherewithal to enter her mom's code into her phone and text someone specific, and that specific person is her stepfather, Heath Smiley. When are you going to be home, honey?

Speaker 1 They go on to argue, yes, she has mental health problems. Quote, those records state she has anxiety and depression.

Speaker 1 Ladies and gentlemen, it's indisputed that anxiety and depression don't cause you to kill someone.

Speaker 1 As for her hearing voices or having lapses in time, you did not hear that from any provider that's ever seen Carly before the crime. Was it a perfect plan? No, nobody ever said it was perfect.

Speaker 1 That's why we're here, but that is not insanity. In the end, Carly was found guilty.
They are appealing her sentence, but a lot of netizens have a lot of thoughts, even with this verdict.

Speaker 1 The netizens who believe that Carly should have been found insane, not guilty by reason of insanity, they write, damn, some of you guys are brutal. She's a baby.

Speaker 1 She doesn't even have a fully developed frontal cortex. Things happen to children that develop these behaviors.
They're born innocent. She's remorseful.
It happens sometimes. 14 is a child.

Speaker 1 I know she took a life, but her brain is not fully developed. We're watching more and more children being treated like adults.
I'm torn.

Speaker 1 The crime is really bad, yet we are dealing with the child physically, mentally, and emotionally. Poor Carly, the way her stepfather smiles at her and has a good relationship with her.

Speaker 1 I remember I started seeing a psychiatrist at 14 because I was bipolar. They had her on medication.
Maybe she just flipped out.

Speaker 1 The others that do not believe she was insane at the time of the crime, that she knew what she was doing, they write, the fact that she shot her mom, came to the kitchen and was messaging someone, heard her mom screaming, and then went back to check upon her, she was fully aware of what she was doing.

Speaker 1 Another writes, oh, crimia river. She was always trying to make herself cry, but it's not working.
Sociopaths always forget to produce tears in their performances.

Speaker 1 I believe those tears are real tears. I just don't believe this was mental illness, is another comment.
She cries for herself and herself only.

Speaker 1 She ugly snot cried today because it suddenly became very real for her that she will spend the rest of her life in prison. I don't know, after hearing from her therapist, nothing sounds like insanity.

Speaker 1 Sounds like a very intelligent girl who, for all intents and purposes, is now trying for some insanity defense. Still don't know if life is the answer, but she should have taken that 40-year plea.

Speaker 1 Others just focus on the evidence in the trial, like the footage of the dogs. They write, the body language of these dogs really makes it sink in for you.

Speaker 1 They instantly went from tails wagging, excited to see their owners, to scared, frantic, and confused. Animals are so perceptive.
Wait, what happened with the dogs?

Speaker 1 After the gunshots, they start pacing. Like they look very anxious and stressed.

Speaker 1 Others are just using that as a chance to bully a 14-year-old. They write, it's the chin pimples for me.
Hope they sell proactive at the commissary in prison.

Speaker 1 Others are just talking about her strange courtroom cries and smiles. They write, it's the fake convulsions and strained face for me.

Speaker 1 Others think Carly is enjoying the trial and they write, look at her. She's both horrified and fascinated by what she's done.

Speaker 1 She has been sentenced to life in prison for the murder of her mother, the attempted murder of her stepfather, and 10 years for tampering with evidence.

Speaker 1 Her attorneys have expressed disappointment and they...

Speaker 1 What temper with evidence?

Speaker 1 oh hiding the cameras oh okay yeah they state that carly knows this is not the end meaning they're going to be appealing the verdict which could be possible i imagine if she claims ineffective counsel there were parts where the defense was just doing things and i'm like what is the purpose of this for example the body cam footage where carly is arrested and her hands are being swapped the defense kept bringing up the fact that one of the officers muted his body cam after swabbing carly's hands he states that he did it because he and the other officers were talking about personnel issues like who's going where and who's who's taking where who.

Speaker 1 And those are lots of officers' names that don't need to be included in this evidence, right? And it's not like they were interacting with Carly at the time that they muted it.

Speaker 1 They were stepped off to the side. There were other officers with Carly.
But the defense kept stating it was strange. It's against protocol.
Is it not? Is it not? And everyone was like, I mean, it is.

Speaker 1 He did break protocol, but what does that have to do with Carly?

Speaker 1 Because it's not like he has any incentive or motive or there's no suspicion that he was trying to help Carly, not help Carly in any way. Yeah, it's unrelated, right?

Speaker 1 Yes, but they were just kept going on it. Like, you broke, admit it, you broke protocol.
A lot of the experts stuff didn't make sense.

Speaker 1 They state that she was diagnosed after the murder with bipolar two and was having auditory hallucinations her whole life.

Speaker 1 But auditory hallucinations can happen to those with bipolar two, but aren't as common. So everything just felt very wishy-washy.
I don't know. She could have bipolar two.

Speaker 1 She could have been having auditory hallucinations, but it just nothing made sense in fact they just basically went up there and read someone the dsm5 is what it felt like they were like you know what it could have been this which symptoms include blah blah blah blah blah dsm5 is the diagnostic manual for a psychiatrist it just felt not specific to carly and just more so a regurgitation of information of things that could possibly happen to someone when they have maybe certain conditions it just didn't make sense

Speaker 1 and some comments just read, this is justice. She could have admitted guilt and gotten parole after 40 years, but she didn't.
She didn't admit anything.

Speaker 1 And now she gets life in prison and will never be released. She chose this.
Another comment reads, she is truly shocked.

Speaker 1 She thought because she was 14 and looks 12 that it was going to go in her favor.

Speaker 1 Another comment reads, the thought of someone carrying their own killer in their stomach for nine months is truly creepy to me and depressing.

Speaker 1 Another just reads, adult decisions have adult consequences.

Speaker 1 What are your thoughts on this case? It seems like everybody is very divided. Some people think that she should just be hospitalized.
Others think that she should be acquitted.

Speaker 1 I would say most are pretty happy with this conviction, but they wonder if there's a lot of other theories roaming around.

Speaker 1 What are your thoughts? Why do you think she killed her mom? Just pure evil?

Speaker 1 Some people were saying this is like a serial killer in the making, but a lot of people were also arguing it doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 She doesn't have these trademarks that you see in a lot of serial killers.

Speaker 1 It just feels off.

Speaker 1 I don't know. What are your thoughts? Leave it in the comments.
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