I Watched Diddy’s Lawyers Question Cassie For 16 Hours - This Is EVERYTHING That Happened

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Speaker 2 Rated PG-13.

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Speaker 3 Bada bing, bada boop.

Speaker 2 I think every single person I know in existence, on a personal level, taken it upon themselves to send me anything that is related to Sean Combs.

Speaker 2 The amount of AI generated TikToks that my parents send me asking me if I'm safe, if I'm going to be okay in the next two months, it's getting out of control.

Speaker 2 But an interesting series of TikToks have actually been circulating in the Rotten Mingle group chats.

Speaker 2 In short, it is always somebody very passionate in front of a camera, seemingly very frustrated because nobody else thinks the way that they think. One person says, why the hell didn't Cassie leave?

Speaker 2 Like, you guys need to stop acting like we have this invisible line in the sand. Like, we're not allowed to ask, why didn't you leave?

Speaker 2 She's putting up with the bullshit because she thinks the good shit outweighs the bullshit. Y'all are gonna stop making people acting like they're crazy for pointing that out.

Speaker 2 At the end of the day, though, at what point are we saying you're a willing participant or not? Like, we can't ask common sense questions.

Speaker 2 Another person on TikTok compares her to Ghelain Maxwell, the counterpart of Jeffree Epstein. No, bro, she's got favorite escorts.
She's picking out different escorts.

Speaker 2 And come to find out, she's been cheating on her husband throughout this.

Speaker 2 No, bro, Cassie's husband is finding out that he's getting cheated on in the most diabolical ways in the courtroom, that he's walking out. Side note, that is factually incorrect.

Speaker 2 That is not why he walked out. And y'all are acting like, this is grape.
She was a willing participant.

Speaker 2 I can't stand how we are framing Cassie as this super victim when she's picking out the escorts that she wants. She's one of the most freaked out people in Hollywood.

Speaker 2 And y'all think that women just aren't on that? You hear a woman being part of stuff like this and you think, oh, there's no way she could have wanted that. Actually, bro, yeah, she's a ringleader.

Speaker 2 We saw the text messages. She's setting this shit up.
That's so nasty, bro. Everybody up there freaked out and the women too.

Speaker 2 Another one is focused on Cassie's husband, Alex Fine, with one TikTok saying, she cheats on you and he takes you back.

Speaker 2 Y'all work this shit out and then years later down the line, you have to find out how and exactly what way she was cheating on you.

Speaker 2 You find out not only was she cheating on you with one dude, she was getting double quadruple teamed. And not to mention she had an affair with the man that she said abused her.

Speaker 2 And then women on TikTok are going to gaslight you for taking on her bullshit.

Speaker 2 That is why women don't get the respect that they beg for in society because they don't tell the truth under any circumstances unless it benefits them.

Speaker 2 The comments under that read, 1 billion women versus accountability.

Speaker 2 Another reads, Cassie got away, got married, and still went back to Diddy and women are going to keep moving the goalpost for her actions.

Speaker 2 Another says, if your girl is praising Alex Fine and saying things like, every woman needs Alex Fine, you got to run.

Speaker 2 I will say many of the comments in these videos and the videos themselves are misquoting or miscontextualizing statements and or questions from the cross-examination against Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 2 Here is a full recap on the 12-hour long cross-examination of Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 2 We would like to thank today's sponsors who have made it possible for Rotten Mingo to support the Joyful Heart Foundation.

Speaker 2 They are working to transform society's response to SA, DV, CA, and support survivors' healings. This episode's partnerships have also made it possible to support Rotten Mingo's growing team.

Speaker 2 We'd also like to thank you guys for your continued support as we work on our mission to be worthy advocates. As always, full show notes are available at rottenmingo podcast.com.

Speaker 2 A few disclaimers before we get started. Regarding content, there are themes of DV, SA, and sex trafficking.
Please watch with caution.

Speaker 2 Many of the quotes and statements included have been shortened and condensed for brevity or rearranged because, I mean, if you look at the transcripts for Cassie's cross-examination, I think it's almost a thousand pages.

Speaker 2 Okay, no, I want to say it's like a good 600 pages. It's a thick stack and they keep jumping back and forth.
The timeline was so confusing.

Speaker 2 The way that it's absorbed in court in real time was like certain times text messages would be brought up and I'm like, I don't even know when this text message is from.

Speaker 2 We had to re-go through all the transcript and our notes and the exhibits to be like, oh, this is when it's from. So we've kind kind of rearranged it in a way that makes a lot more sense.

Speaker 2 And this week's testimony was impossible to shrink into a standalone episode. So if you haven't already watched the first part of Cassie's direct, that's like her direct testimony.

Speaker 2 So go check that out. And speaking of the legality of things, Sean Combs is presumed innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Speaker 2 Everything up until this point, everything that he's been charged with are alleged crimes until a verdict is reached, which at this time of the episode, it has yet to occur.

Speaker 2 Any descriptions and observations regarding Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs, his legal team, the court, and or the public during the trial were personally noted by myself or my two other researchers who were present in the courtroom.

Speaker 2 None of us three should be used as like a definitive source to determine how you feel about someone's innocence or guilt. So with that being said, let's get started.

Speaker 2 I saw a comment on the last episode. Well, like a few episodes back that said, Sean Combs' defense team is like all of the Avengers, except now they're working for Thanos.
They're representing Thanos.

Speaker 2 So there's typically three sketch artists in the courtroom, and they've been kind of bickering, they've been fighting a little bit. We have observed some things.

Speaker 2 We're not going to talk about it because we love the sketch artists, but two of them are now sitting on the very first row of the right side, which we are in the back of the right side,

Speaker 2 and one of them is sitting on the very first row of the left side, so practically right behind Sean Combs.

Speaker 2 And the one on the left side, I just see her grinding a piece of white chalk into the sketch, and I'm like, She's ferocious about it.

Speaker 2 I look over, and it's it's just three floating orbits of white hair heads in varying degrees of white. You got Brian Steele, who's got almost a nearly full head of white hair.

Speaker 2 You've got Sean Combs, you've got Mark Agnifilo, and she's just grinding in the white chalk, making their heads even whiter than I think they are in real life.

Speaker 2 And then on the other side, you have one of the sketch artists. She's like a legend in the courthouse, but She's drawing Cassie with a tissue in her right hand.
Cassie is clearly in distress.

Speaker 2 She's sobbing and the judge is looking at her as she's crying. It is propped up against the wooden railing right in front of her.
So usually you don't see too much unless you kind of crane your neck.

Speaker 2 They like to keep it a little bit slanted, but I think she's trying to get a good overview because she has it propped up that I can see the sketch pretty clearly.

Speaker 2 It's propped up and it's directly because I'm sitting behind Alex fine directly behind him. It's directly in his line of sight.

Speaker 2 If he were to look up, he will see Cassie, his wife, crying on the stand. And if he looks down, he will see a giant sketch of her crying.

Speaker 2 I think that the cross-examination of Cassie Ventura is, if you can even believe it, more emotional than her direct testimony. Before Cassie enters the courtroom, the energy is very interesting.

Speaker 2 There are these like five windows on the side of the courtroom that are massive.

Speaker 2 And the second one near the front, the curtains are clipped closed with like a giant binder clip the courthouse i think spends all of their money pumping the ac it's like negative 10 degrees in there cassie even mentioned that she might be a little bit chilly the judge is always asking people if they're chilly everybody's cold and the freaking curtain is binder clipped why don't they bring it up they do um they say it's a

Speaker 2 I talked to Officer Riz, who basically controls the courtroom, and he said, it's either going to be snowing or it's going to be so hot everyone's going to be sweating.

Speaker 2 Like there's no, I think it's very hard to control.

Speaker 3 I see.

Speaker 2 Sean Combs walks into the the courtroom. He's wearing this sandy colored sweater with a colored shirt.
He looks anxious, but not in the bad way. Like that's the best way we can describe him.

Speaker 3 This is like before the cross. Yeah, before the direct has happened.

Speaker 2 The direct lasted two days, it's happened, and now we're heading into the cross-examination. So this means that Combs' defense team are going to be grilling, poking holes into Cassie's story.

Speaker 2 I'm going to go into like what all the steps mean in a second. But he looks like something is going to happen.

Speaker 2 He looks almost anticipatory instead of like it's anxious because you're anticipating something.

Speaker 2 Side note, he is also not allowed to belt for obvious reasons. And his pants are always dangerously close to just like giving the press a sight of something that we did not ask for.

Speaker 2 And you can just tell it's going to be a big day because in walks Karen Acnifilo.

Speaker 2 Mark Acnifilo's wife, also Luigi Mangioni's representation counsel.

Speaker 2 And she brings her mom, her elderly mother. Karen's mom? Yeah.
Who Sean

Speaker 2 blows kisses at.

Speaker 2 And someone around me comments, it's a family affair. But I'm like, no, Karen, I love you.
Please just give us updates on Luigi. Like, we didn't ask for this.
She is very cool, though.

Speaker 2 Now, there's a little back and forth between the government and the defense team, which I think is just so fascinating the way that they talk.

Speaker 2 So long story short, not to overcomplicate things, the defense wants to use something that the government does not want to be used during the cross-examination.

Speaker 2 But they didn't even show the government all of these exhibits until yesterday so to that the judge is asking so how would you ever be in a position to establish good cause you would have brought that to the court's attention in any of the 15 or so hearings that we had in this court and then I would have addressed them right

Speaker 2 aka why are you upset after you turned in your homework late Mark Agnifilo is not phased. He pleads his case, but the way that we can best describe him is a giant teddy bear talking.

Speaker 2 Does that mean that he's a good person? I'm not even trying to say that. I know teddy bear is like associated with like good and kind.

Speaker 2 I don't know anything about him personally, but he's the energy of a giant teddy bear who yeps. He likes to say things like, I know your honor has given this a lot of thought, as you always do.

Speaker 2 I'm just trying to sort of give your honor a different way of looking at the letter and the understandings.

Speaker 3 Like he sounds very harmless?

Speaker 2 He sounds he's so disarming. If he were a cop, I would confess to crimes I didn't commit.

Speaker 2 He gives me like, if I'm lost in a supermarket and I need someone's phone, he'd be the first person I talk to. Wow.

Speaker 2 But the judge is not swayed by his backpack with 1,000 zippers and his slightly charismatic way of talking. And he is also reminiscent of a passionate filibuster.

Speaker 2 That's exactly how the RM team knows him. We call him the filibuster.
Seriously, he's Mr. Filibuster.

Speaker 2 Sometimes when I see his name pop up on the transcripts, I'm like, I remember that moment in court. I'm like, let's just fit through 10 pages because he just likes to yap.

Speaker 2 So they're arguing back and forth about these exhibits not being turned in on time. And prosecutor Comey chimes in.

Speaker 2 And every time she talks, like I said, I don't think I want to be on the receiving end of whatever she's saying. I forgive Mr.
Agnifilo for probably thinking about a different conversation.

Speaker 2 We have talked about a lot of messages over the course of the last few weeks. But in the last context of this particular meet, there were no discussions of those text messages.

Speaker 2 Basically, the defense wants a text thread admitted during Cassie's cross. The government is like, no, we don't want that admitted.
And you were supposed to tell that a long time ago.

Speaker 2 You were supposed to tell us if you wanted it. The judge is like, children, calm down.
I made my ruling. It seems like maybe people don't understand.

Speaker 2 Not only is there no basis to admit these specific messages, but maybe we're not on the same page. There is no issue here as far as I can tell.

Speaker 2 Because the actual examination of the witness is not being impaired. Am I wrong about that? So the judge, he's getting snappy with it.
He's not having it anymore.

Speaker 2 I feel like his patience is running thin.

Speaker 2 There are some whispers that the defense is, I don't want to call them dirty moves, but it seems like they're very strategic in the late timing of submitting exhibits and they're wordy, trying to do things a little bit slick.

Speaker 3 So that text threat is not approved. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Well, they are redacting parts of it.

Speaker 2 And as they're having this very intense back and forth, there's members of both sides of the legal teams pushing giant, they look like shopping carts, which is filled to the brim with papers and binders and files.

Speaker 2 This is going to be a very intense day. When the jurors walk in, and we haven't seen this since it feels like three months ago, but it was like a week and a half ago.

Speaker 2 We haven't seen this since the very first day of jury selection.

Speaker 2 When the jurors walk in and Sean Combs is nodding, his body is fully turned towards them and near his hip height, he has both of his hands near his waist and he's slowly rubbing his hands back and forth.

Speaker 2 Like when you're cold, you know how you rub them together to generate heat, but much slower. And he's slightly swaying his body.
Even his kids seem a lot more involved today. The daughters are gone.

Speaker 2 They're back in California. They actually only came for two days.
The three sons are still here, as well as the mother.

Speaker 2 So Justin Combs, Christian Combs, and Quincy, and Janice Combs, Sean Combs' mother.

Speaker 2 They're all dressed a lot more casually in their normal attire, and it just feels like they've got something up their sleeves.

Speaker 2 And maybe they do, because Prosecutor Slavic even tells the judge, basically, the deadline for submitting these documents, these exhibits a month, was a month ago.

Speaker 2 The defense only submitted four exhibits a month ago. Okay?

Speaker 2 We probably should have raised this with the court. However, last night, right before the cross-examination, this morning, they dumped 400 exhibits on the government.

Speaker 2 Some of these exhibits were incredibly long. They were documents proposed, exhibits of 100, 200 pages.
Many of these documents were internally duplicative.

Speaker 2 AKA, just the same portions of the same emails or text threads overlapping with government exhibits, but they have to go through all of them because they have to.

Speaker 2 This sort of dump of 400 enormous duplicative documents, this is high in efficiency.

Speaker 2 The government submits there really needs to be a solution so this doesn't continue happening throughout the course of this trial. Wow.

Speaker 3 Yeah. So that is definitely a strategy.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Comey even adds in, the government has produced hundreds of marked exhibits on our exhibit deadline.

Speaker 2 And as we have marked additional exhibits, we have been in real time been producing them to the defense throughout the trial. Our goal is to not have this trial by ambush.

Speaker 2 And our our goal is to not waste the juror's time in the middle of the witness's cross-examination. The judge is looking at the defense like that's a fair point.

Speaker 2 But the defense is arguing through Tenny Garagos that this is not a trial by ambush.

Speaker 2 They're arguing it's the defendant's right that the government cannot prepare her on potential exhibits while she's on direct examination. It's not trial by ambush.

Speaker 2 These are all documents that they've seen. They have them in their possession for eight months before we got them.
So in terms of fairness argument, it's a fairness for the defendant.

Speaker 2 In terms of the government, we've gave them everything that they didn't have by our deadline. To which the judges, they keep going back and forth.

Speaker 2 The judge finally asks Prosecutor Comey, you've heard what they have to say. What do you want?

Speaker 2 She stands up into the mic, I want their exhibits, Your Honor, and I think they've already marked them and I would like them now. So I want their exhibits now, please.
Very firm.

Speaker 2 And then the defense does something interesting.

Speaker 2 And again, I don't know if this is a strategy, but they say, oh yeah, our paralegal brought copies and they just have a giant cart full of binders for their exhibits.

Speaker 2 And Comey is immediately like, we will also ask for an electronic copy. To which the judge agrees, we are in the 21st century, so let's try to make that happen.

Speaker 2 Which one could imagine it could be the defense trying to make it harder for the prosecutors? But Tenny Garrigos jokes, we are. I do work with Mr.
Agnifilo, but we are in the 21st century.

Speaker 2 And he admits I'm a little behind.

Speaker 2 It's very interesting the way that they're doing this.

Speaker 3 I see, though, I see what you mean.

Speaker 3 It does seem like every single action is calculated with the intention of like delay or just complicate things, make it hard for them. Just everything is part of strategy.

Speaker 2 Exactly. And the way that Mark Agnifilo is able to talk to the judge is so fascinating because this was a conversation that's been coming up over and over again.

Speaker 2 And even the judge says, Let me take a step back. Mr.
Agnifilo, I thought you were going to take this off my plate. Those were the words Agnifilo told him a few days ago.

Speaker 2 And he says, I think taking taking it off your plate, Your Honor, is going to be a day-by-day process. And I'm going to continue to try and take it off your plate as the morning goes on.

Speaker 2 I am on an aspirational basis.

Speaker 2 What? He says, I aspire to take it off your plate, basically.

Speaker 2 Two days ago, he was like, I'm going to take it off your plate, Your Honor. Don't even worry about it.
And then today he said, day by day, on an aspirational basis.

Speaker 2 You know?

Speaker 3 Yeah. And what's Judge's like reaction over these type of talk?

Speaker 2 Just like what the hell is like you guys are wasting my time like this is literally his children arguing back and forth that's why you say he's his patience running thin oh yeah he he went from i think he's still fair i think he has way more patience i was even talking to some of um the people that work in the court and they were like he's actually one of the most fair judges Like a lot of judges won't even let both sides even plead their case like this.

Speaker 2 They'd be like, hey, shut up. I'm going to lunch.

Speaker 2 So he's very fair.

Speaker 2 However, he went from being like very, you know, in a good mood to now he's like Logan Roy from succession and all of his kids are arguing and he, it looks like he thinks they're all dumb.

Speaker 2 I don't think he thinks that, but it's the feeling. When a witness is called into a courtroom, you have the direct examination.
You're setting the stage.

Speaker 2 Now, Cassie Ventura is the government's witness, so the government leads the direct testimony. Then after that, you have the cross-examination.

Speaker 2 The defense or the other party will question and the whole part of the cross-examination is to effectively discredit the witness, poke holes in their story, pick out any lies that they can see and undermine any of their allegations.

Speaker 2 And then you have the redirect where the prosecutor will come up and try to repair any credibility or add context to anything that was not perceived well during the cross.

Speaker 2 Then there's the recross-examination, which is to challenge new information provided in the redirect.

Speaker 2 So a lot of people say that sometimes the cross-examination of a very important witness in a criminal case is the most important thing. One of the most important things.

Speaker 2 And there's so many rules that some people abide by. Some people say the number one rule is that don't ask a question you don't know the answer to in a cross-examination.

Speaker 2 Some people say, no, the number one rule is you're going to make mistakes cross-examining, so keep it short. The shorter the time, the less mistakes.
Proving two points is better than proving three.

Speaker 2 Proving one point is better than proving two. Always keep it condensed.
Everybody has different opinions. Attorney Anna Esteveo is the one doing the cross-examination of Cassie Ventura.

Speaker 2 She has a reputation for being a top white collar criminal defense attorney, usually representing clients accused of financial fraud, insurance fraud, tax fraud, money laundering, narcotics, and weapons offenses.

Speaker 2 She does this thing when she's talking, when she asks questions. This is our first time really hearing from her.
She will pause.

Speaker 2 let the silence linger, and it feels like she's constructing her sentences in real time.

Speaker 2 Like there's an invisible word document in front of her that we cannot see and she's like deleting words, replacing words. Cassie walks in.

Speaker 2 The first two days of her direct testimony, she was wearing sweater dresses with a coat. The first day was no coat.
The second day was a coat. The third day and the fourth day, she shows up.

Speaker 2 in blazers for the cross-examination. And I thought it was so interesting because I think going to court every day recently, I have been dressing depending on my mood.

Speaker 2 Like if I feel like it's so stressful, I want to dress a little bit more professionally because I feel less vulnerable. And it was just so interesting to see her very distinct shift in her clothing.

Speaker 2 She shows up with her blazer and Esteveo takes the podium. She's got very interesting body language.
Now her arms are tightly crossed, like very tightly crossed.

Speaker 2 I can see her shoulder blades peeping through her blazer in the back. Or her arms are flexed forward in front of her, just straight flex.

Speaker 2 There's no give in her elbow elbow and she's like gripping her pen tightly. Good morning, Miss Ventura.
Good morning. You and Sean were in love for 11 years, right? That's her first question.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 During that time, you loved him? I did, yes. And you believe that he loved you as well? Yes.
Sean, that's the name that you used the past two days in the courtroom, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 That's the name his mother gave him? Okay, she's like trying to humanize him. We all have government names, but like go off.

Speaker 2 And that's a part of what made your relationship with him him special, is that you knew the real Sean, right? I believe I knew a real version, yeah. This part is so strange to me.

Speaker 2 I thought it was odd. And you always knew how special you were to him, right? No, I don't think I always knew.
You sometimes knew. Sometimes it's fair.
You frequently knew.

Speaker 2 Sometimes you wanted to keep Sean's trust. Yeah.
And you earned that trust. I don't know, but I wanted to earn it.
You did earn it. I did earn it, yeah.
It's just very weird.

Speaker 2 I think it's like, I think it's weird because these cross-examinations always feel like some sort of power play.

Speaker 2 I feel like the first few, I don't know, maybe even 10 minutes, it feels like trying to establish dominance is the feeling.

Speaker 2 And maybe I'm looking too much into it, but it's like they're trying to control the conversation and put the witness in a specific mode of answering.

Speaker 2 So like even this, I'm like, I don't really know what it did for the jurors. I don't think it proved anything in like the defense opening statement.

Speaker 2 Like earning his trust, I don't think that has anything to do with racketeering.

Speaker 2 So to make him happy, you told him that you wanted to do freak-offs, right? No, there's a lot more to that. I'm sure we'll get there.

Speaker 2 In front of Anna Esteveo is a stack, a binder with all these papers, and it seems like every page has a different post-it sticking out of it.

Speaker 2 It looks like a highly annotated, at least two books of the Agatar series. It's like a thick binder.
And the whole time, Tenny is just passing more post-its.

Speaker 2 These defense attorneys are keeping the post-it company in business. The amount of post-its after the cross-examination, I want to say is like three inches high.
Whoa.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So there are a lot of text messages brought into evidence from the defense, and they start off a bit more normal and get more intense as they're released.

Speaker 2 In one text message thread, and this is all to establish that Cassie, I mean, more or less wanted it is what the defense is trying to argue, that she was not coerced into these freak offs.

Speaker 2 In one text thread, Combs texts Cassie, it makes me so happy that you would fly to Atlanta just to see me. I'm truly a lucky man.
Love you. Missing you.
Can't wait to hold you.

Speaker 2 Esteveo as Cassie read her messages out loud in the courtroom. I'm a very lucky woman, Smiley Face.
I'm a very lucky woman. I miss you so much.
I'd fly wherever you needed me, whenever.

Speaker 2 I love you, Cass.

Speaker 2 I think being in that courtroom, one thing that Esteveo did that I felt was more impactful than Prosecutor Johnson is she got herself and Cassie to read the messages out loud like a text thread.

Speaker 2 So Esteveo would read Combs' messages, Cassie would read Cassie's. Now Prosecutor Johnson did too, but a lot of the times it wasn't super clean cut.

Speaker 2 It was always like, then he responds and then what do you say afterwards? So there was a lot of break in the flow.

Speaker 2 I think this format is doing a lot more impasse for the jurors. And they're just rapidly going through these exhibits of text messages.

Speaker 2 And these jurors, at least in the beginning of the cross-examination, they're locked in.

Speaker 2 I saw one of the jurors flip a page in his notebook and he's already used like half of his notebook that he was given.

Speaker 2 And they're just rapidly going through these text messages, just normal conversations, maybe trying to establish that it was a normal relationship, I guess is what they're trying to do.

Speaker 2 One message Combs texts Cassie, I love you so much it makes me cry. Another one Combs texts Cassie, did you miss me? A lot.
You didn't even respond to my message.

Speaker 2 Then another one, Cassie, texts Combs, going to sleep now so it can be tomorrow faster and you can be home. I love you.
Love you, my baby. Smiley face.
I love you so much it consumes my life.

Speaker 2 How did that happen? Cassie responds, I don't know. I wonder the same thing for myself all the time.
Like, who was I before we decided

Speaker 2 to be together? I never knew it could be like this. How do you have me this way? LOL, what do you mean? I'm so happy that we fell in love.
We are so in love, we don't do anything else.

Speaker 2 That's not true. But you're going to have to work so hard, four times as hard as me, which takes a lot of time.
Another one from Combs to Cassie, I miss you already. Me too.

Speaker 2 When do you want to freak off, lol? LOL, I'm just going up to change and put my ring on. I just picked it up.
I'm always ready to freak off. LOL LOL.
Combs at this point is leaning in.

Speaker 2 His body is a lot more towards Esteveo and the jurors this time. When this message is read, he cocks his head to the left.

Speaker 2 Because anytime a message is read where she's initiating or responding well to a freak off, he's like doing some sort of motion. He's always kind of pivoting towards the jurors.
He's cocking his head.

Speaker 2 They continue reading these text messages. You tell me the day.
You choose. That's Sean.
It can be whenever. Name the night.

Speaker 2 I feel like the weekend, like a Friday night, would be the best because we'd want time to recover for work, for the work week, right?

Speaker 2 This upcoming weekend, the 8th, is the only one I have until the 28th. I'm on it.
Oh well, okay, but if you can't, we can always do it during the week. You know it doesn't matter to me.

Speaker 2 Estebea looks at Cassie. When you say, we know that doesn't matter to me, you're saying that you understand that Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs knows that you don't mind whether or not it's on a weekend or during the week, right? That's what it says. Okay, and then Mr.
Combs says, Friday it is. I wish we could get Jules here.

Speaker 2 Cassie reads her message. LOL, maybe we could.
We don't know him that well though. You want to call him and feel him out? Yeah, I could do that.
Call him now, please.

Speaker 2 Now, those are a little bit more on the tame side. There are some messages that have the internet in a bit of a tailspin.

Speaker 2 They're not read out in court, but the exhibits are displayed right on the screen for everyone to see, so they're admitted into evidence.

Speaker 2 August 7th, 2009, cassie says that the two of them are texting about planning a freak off cassie texts combs me too i just want it to be uncontrollable i can't wait to watch you i want you to get real hot she responds i can't wait to stare at some big black

Speaker 2 which side note

Speaker 2 The RM team's perception when a lot of these explicit messages were being read out, the Combs sons were in the courtroom and they look really pleased is the only way I can describe it.

Speaker 2 Especially Christian Combs has a harder time managing his facial expressions. He's got his like upper lip sucked in like he's hiding a smile.
Like he's like, mm-hmm, like that's the vibe.

Speaker 2 Whereas Quincy and Justin, they're like ferociously passing notes. That day, they're passing notes non-stop.
I don't know what they're passing notes about. I'd love to know.

Speaker 2 In another message, Combs texts Cassie, I'm so horny, I can't concentrate. She responds back, so what do you want to do? I'm going to Dwayne Reed to grab candles and then going home to pack us a bag.

Speaker 2 If you want any regular clothes, by the way, or just sweats, then I can go check in, set the room up, I'll eat, take my vitamins, LOL, and get ready before I LV the house. Leave the house.

Speaker 2 Just want to know what you're thinking.

Speaker 2 It's crazy because as these text messages are being revealed in court, I think it's like you sit there and you're like logically thinking and you go, yeah, no, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 This is exactly what Cassie said in her direct testimony. And this has been her stance since even she filed her civil lawsuit.
It's like the whole grooming thing.

Speaker 2 They met when she was super young, impressionable. He's got the power.
She wanted to make him happy. She clearly did not want to participate in these things, but she didn't know what else to do.

Speaker 2 And that's kind of what you get in the text messages. But I think in that courtroom, the impact as they're being read out was very intense.

Speaker 2 A lot of the jurors were scribbling notes, especially when the more explicit vulgar messages came up.

Speaker 2 I don't personally think that the vulgar messages are evidence of anything, but it had such a strong shock value in that moment.

Speaker 3 Yeah.

Speaker 2 That it was just, it's hard to not feel when it feels like the whole room feels shock. Cause there's like a collective energy that everybody has.

Speaker 2 And this is why I think direct and cross is so important because I think when you go online, everyone is like, oh, the whole direct testimony was so sad. And it's like one emotion.

Speaker 2 But then when you're in that courtroom for the entirety of the 15 hours that the direct testimony is, there's so many waves of emotions.

Speaker 2 And even if you're sad, if the prosecutor is asking asking maybe not the right questions, it's very easy to see that jurors are falling asleep next. And then people get sad.

Speaker 2 And then people fall asleep. It's like the weirdest thing.
Now, one text from 2009, Sean texts Cassie, I'm so horny. Esteveo asks her, and you received that message.
And in response, what do you say?

Speaker 2 Oh my God, I was about to text you the same thing. Sean responds, how are you feeling? Talk to me.
You're supposed to be seducing me all day. LOL, I'm sorry.
I'm nervous. I feel like I want to fuck.

Speaker 2 Another text thread that is exchanged between Cassie and Combs a few days before the Intercontinental Hotel Incident, so this is them preparing for a freak off in the Intercontinental. What?

Speaker 2 Cassie messages Combs. I want to spend time with my baby.
Okay, well, let me know either way so I can plan my night. Love you so much.
You look so sexy today. Hello? Well, hit me when you have time.

Speaker 2 Thank you, baby. I love you so much and you look so sexy today.
So what are you planning to do so I can plan the rest of my night? Baby, I want to FO so bad, but I don't want to fuck myself up.

Speaker 2 What am I to do? After the messages are read out loud, Esteveo lets it sink in for a second. So at this point, this is the fifth text message to him suggesting that you guys get together, right?

Speaker 2 Sure, yeah.

Speaker 2 And after he was asking you multiple times what you wanted to do, it was up to you, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he again says, what would you want to do, right? And then you say, I don't want you thinking I don't want to, right?

Speaker 2 So after this, she's like, I don't want you to think that I don't want to FO. Yeah.

Speaker 2 As in, you don't want him to think that you don't want to have a freak off. Correct, because he's been asking me over and over again.
After you have asked him over and over again. Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 It's just like, you know, when you're with somebody, you know how they speak and you know what they mean when they text certain things. It's like that.
Esteveo mentions that Sean texts back.

Speaker 2 Thanks, babe. I love you.
You look beautiful. Proud of you.
Have a great day. And then no response.
What are you doing? I just got out of a spiritual therapy session. What are your plans?

Speaker 2 With the messages up, Esteveo says. Because at this point, he's asking you what you want to do, right? Because at this point, you have proposed a number of things.
You've proposed a freak off.

Speaker 2 You've proposed going out with your girlfriends. You've proposed just being you.
I'm assuming that means staying in, right?

Speaker 2 This is the message at the top where you say, baby, I want to FO so bad, but I don't want to fuck myself up. What am I to do, right? Yep.

Speaker 2 And this is the one that you were asked about in your direct testimony, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 And this is the one when you were asked why you sent this message, right? You said you were doing damage control because you didn't want him to ruin your movie premiere.

Speaker 2 Because you remember, after the Intercontinental Hotel incident, she's got a movie premiere where she had to put a lot of makeup on.

Speaker 2 And that's the same one where she's like asked about, oh, how was your chemistry with your co-star?

Speaker 2 And she's like, he's a friend, he's a friend, he's a great friend. Right.
And at that point, Mr. Combs has sent you a number of loving messages, right?

Speaker 2 Right. And he's participated in a promotional event for your movie, right? A luncheon? I think he just came, but yeah, he came.
That went smoothly, right? Sure.

Speaker 2 And it was supportive of whatever decision you wanted to make in terms of how you two spend your time together, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then he says, so what would you want to do? And that's when you say, we can have fun.
I don't want you thinking I don't want to, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 To which they read the next text of Sean writing, I think if we start at seven or eight and end at four at the latest, take a Xanax and or Ambien and go to sleep, we'll be okay.

Speaker 2 And you rest tomorrow and all day Sunday, you'll be good. And drink a lot of water, we'll be good.
But we won't have hours to be caught in a matrix if if we do it. I want you to call Garen.

Speaker 2 So Garen is from Cowboys for Angels that arranges a lot of the escorts and see what he has. What did he say?

Speaker 3 Yeah. I want you to call Garen.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Okay. And see what he has.
So it can really be a turn on. But if we're going to do something sooner the better.
Can you elaborate, Miss Ventura, on the term matrix?

Speaker 2 It says, but we won't have hours to get caught in the matrix. So matrix, I said, is like...

Speaker 2 the high and being too high where we wouldn't be doing anything sexual, anything would be happening because we would just be too high. Like there would be no performance.

Speaker 2 So it would be a big deal for you to get very high before such an important night in your life, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Your premiere was a big night, right? And if you were to enter a matrix or take too many drugs, it might impact your ability to participate in the promotion for the movie, right? Correct.

Speaker 2 And you understood that he knew that and recognized that, right? I guess she's trying to prove he gave you so many outs. And you didn't take anything is what she's trying to establish to the jury.

Speaker 2 And I'm not going to add in like my own personal tidbits. I think it's been pretty relevant or clear as of now, like where I stand.

Speaker 2 But just to give you, when I say the defense is trying to establish, I'm not saying that's a fact. I'm saying this is their point that they're trying to make.

Speaker 2 Later, the text messages show that Combs is asking a ton of questions and Cassie's not responding. He says, chill with your friends.
I'm going to check you later. I tried.
Wait, yeah.

Speaker 2 He's like texting about the night and she's not responding. He's like, okay, well, why aren't you talking to me about Garen, I guess? And then he's like, chill with your friends.
I'll check you later.

Speaker 2 I tried. Like the I tried honestly feels kind of passive aggressive.
To which Cassie responds, I said, let's have fun. You're tripping and reaching and that's not cool.

Speaker 2 This is a big moment for me and it feels like it's spoiled now. Because it's like now he's just getting upset.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Comb says, call Garen. Can you do that and go get your stuff right?

Speaker 2 Where do you want to stay? Can you see who Garen has? Hello. Yo, I hate when we're in the middle of texting and you just stop.
She responds, I'm waiting for him to hit me back. He didn't answer.

Speaker 2 Are you headed home? Where are you at?

Speaker 2 Can we do it at your house hello talk to you later gonna go into this meeting carrie is here we can't do it at my house about to head home now i got intercontinental did you call garen hit me back is garen the one at the intercontinental hotel no it was jules so garen is the one that is just sending people oh i am imagining that he's going to be either a government witness or he's going to be subpoena Whoa, okay.

Speaker 2 Now, Cassie sends a picture of people Garen has for them that are discreet. That's the word used.

Speaker 2 Combs doesn't respond to which she texts, you hate when I stop responding, but now that's what you're doing. Can we get the other guys? You really want to bring another random into our situation?

Speaker 2 Esteveo points out that the two of them go back and forth discussing which guys to invite. So this is like the beginning, that one TikToker that's like, she's choosing and picking her escorts.

Speaker 2 The way it happens, it's more so. She's not like picking and choosing.
She's not like, ooh, that one looks hot. That one looks great.
It's more like,

Speaker 2 I've never met these people. I'm not really comfortable.
Like this person gives me weird vibes. If I have to choose, I'd rather choose Jules who I feel safer with.

Speaker 2 That's kind of been her whole energy throughout the entire testimony.

Speaker 3 That's what they're referring to.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Wow. Cause I was like,

Speaker 2 I'm telling you, if you see the state of the desk over there, like my researchers and I are flipping through transcript pages, like this doesn't even make sense.

Speaker 2 Cassie is being a bit stressed about this stranger coming and she just doesn't want a random person. I'll be right over there.
Let's just start the energy fresh is what Cassie says.

Speaker 2 I had such a great day and I intend on keeping it that way. Esteveo looks over the podium.

Speaker 2 When you say you were intending on keeping it that way, that included participation in this freak off that you're planning, right? So she's saying you intend on keeping a good day.

Speaker 2 A freak off is a good day. Another message Cassie sends read, I'm not in a combative place.
I've just been people pleasing all day and I just need relaxed fun.

Speaker 2 By saying you just need relaxed fun, you're referring to the anticipated freak off, right? Not necessarily.

Speaker 2 i felt like for me it was more about the high and hanging out with sean eventually she sends another text of like no crazy she doesn't want crazy because her energy is good she wants to keep it a good day she's got a movie premiere so she just writes no crazy to which combs responds all good you just don't hear how you be talking so this goes back to her direct where she talks about how he loves saying things like watch your face watch your words yeah yeah in another text thread if combs is text it's combs texting cassie you know we have to have a proper FO without no K, ketamine.

Speaker 2 I need to get it out of my head. I hate ketamine.
So you let me know when. Please don't be mad and think that's all I want to do.
It's just the K.

Speaker 2 A successful FO is when we remember and don't be fiending to do it the right way again. I won't bring it up again until you're in that mood and I'll fly Dave in.
Dave is another escort.

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, I'm fine, just trying to get my life back organized. Yeah, I know, right? I'm sorry.
I feel like it's my fault that we rush back into shit. I'm preying on us.

Speaker 2 Love is so hard sometimes. We both got to get back on track or we'll never get shit done.
I want you to know that I realize what's going on. We're at a great place.

Speaker 2 Let's give things time to breathe in a positive light. I need to get the songs for Epic.
Send me all the songs that you have on a flash drive when you're ready.

Speaker 2 I'll send Dave to get so I can get that done and I'm coming up with a management solution. Anything else you want me to work on, please send.
I'm going to my therapist today. Love you so much.

Speaker 2 Always will. They're trying to argue some of the same text messages are being used where Cassie in the direct is like, yeah, I didn't want to.
I was just scared. So this was my reaction.

Speaker 2 In the cross, they're basically saying, look, you want to. Look at this.
Like you guys are having in-depth conversations about the freak offs.

Speaker 2 In another message that was brought up, Cassie had texted Combs that she wants to talk to him about something. And he's like, is it going to stress me out? Do you remember that text?

Speaker 2 He's like, what is it about? Freak off. It can wait.
It's not a big deal. Now you don't want to do it anymore.
I already know. You're so predictable.
Really?

Speaker 2 Okay, since I'm done, that's definitely what it is. We'll leave it at that since I am so predictable.
Have a good night.

Speaker 3 Sean Sean Kong says, freak off. You don't want to do it anymore.
You are so predictable. Yes.
Meaning, Shang Kong's like, okay, you've done this a thousand times.

Speaker 3 You don't want to do the freak off anymore. I can already see it.

Speaker 2 The fact that he already knew what was coming is very interesting. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But the defense is like, she says, okay, I mean, I'll leave it at that. Good night.
He says, whatever, baby, I'm not going to play no games with you and you ain't going to keep shutting me down.

Speaker 2 Estevea looks at Cassie.

Speaker 2 You testified on direct that you were going to tell him that you didn't want to do freak offs anymore, anymore, but you didn't tell him that because you didn't want him to be upset, right?

Speaker 2 I saw his reaction and yeah.

Speaker 2 Then another message where Combs texts. And I will say I was getting very lost in the timelines that were jumping around.

Speaker 2 So I felt like they were slightly rearranging timelines in a way that made the most sense for the defense.

Speaker 2 That was the feeling I got because we would jump from like 2008 to 2018 to 2012 and there would just be like one line of like this message is from this date.

Speaker 2 So we actually go on to the next defense exhibit, which is from one day before the previous messages, and it reads, from Sean to Cassie, and baby, we really need to do some soul searching this time.

Speaker 2 We got to figure out a plan and get us back on point. Think about it.
Definitely. What do you feel about where we're at? What do you feel about us? I think it's more than missing you.

Speaker 2 I'm talking about us. I know.
I'm the happiest when I can feel your love, and I haven't felt it lately because I know that you don't really want to be around me.

Speaker 2 I know that I need to work on being nicer, less moody, and more like your woman. I just think that things haven't been able to turn around because we haven't given it any time to breathe.

Speaker 2 We just get, keep getting pushed backwards. I believe that our love has no bounds.
I'm 150% sure that you're the man that I want to be with and I want to be that woman for you too.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's probably, you know, you don't know how much it is to be ruth you. I think he means with you.
You're insecure and you don't know what it takes to take care of me.

Speaker 2 I over so much, but like, I think he's trying to say i still love you i don't know his texting is like kind of the most insane thing ever i just know that i love you and i'm trying so it sounds like they're on the phone briefly before cassie texts back freak off with a girl

Speaker 2 like she just texts him back so freak off with the girl that's yeah what makes you want to do that Esteveo is trying to establish that the day before she was asking for a freak off with a girl.

Speaker 2 And then the next day she states in her direct that she was going to tell him that she no longer wants to do FOs, period. So she's trying to establish it's a little bit weird.

Speaker 2 And then she just keeps moving on. Now, Cassie, at one point, she does get frustrated during the cross-testimony because she's like, am I allowed to like say something?

Speaker 2 And then they're like, no, just like answer the questions because she's not allowed to. She doesn't really have time to be able to explain much.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 Anytime a new text message thread is shown, it's it just seems like a good chunk of the times Combs will literally physically lift his butt up out of his chair so that he can sit at the the edge of his seat, lean onto the table, put his glasses on, and read the text from the evidence screen.

Speaker 3 So it sounds like they, from like their 10 years of text messages, which I don't even know how much text is there, they will cherry-pick very brief conversations that sounded like Cassie wanted to freak off.

Speaker 3 Yes.

Speaker 2 Is that correct? Yes. And it got to the point where

Speaker 2 I forgot what day this was. I think it was like yesterday.
We were texting and I think we were like,

Speaker 2 like half arguing half joking about something that was so dumb because I'm so sleep deprived and I remember thinking like oh that's so interesting because if you were to take anybody's full relationship of text message records even though we're half joking you could totally take everything out of context yeah yeah so it's very interesting it was just a weird oh this is so weird type of moment His energy while he's reading the evidence screen reminds me of, well, first he's looking at the evidence screen, but his demeanor is very casual.

Speaker 2 It's fascinating. He looks like, the best way I can describe it is, it's like a, he's staring at a menu when it's too dark in a restaurant.

Speaker 2 He's just like squinting, looking at the evidence screen, but it's a very casual demeanor. I don't know how to describe that even better.

Speaker 2 You know, when two people are also having a heated discussion, this is his energy throughout the cross-examination.

Speaker 2 Two people are having a very heated discussion and you're trying to say your piece, but they're like, shh, wait your turn.

Speaker 2 And you just have to wait like you're five years old, but you have so much to say.

Speaker 2 That is the energy of sean combs during the cross-examination or like when you know the answer to a question but you have been a smartass for the entirety of the day so the teacher does not want to call on you but you're like trying to sit up taller so that they'll call on you that's the energy sean combs has This is vastly worlds of a difference from the past two days that Cassie has been direct testifying.

Speaker 2 Even during the cross-examination on the first two witnesses, the security guard, the male escort, I mean, albeit there were much, much less critical cross-examinations.

Speaker 2 Other than Combs looking at Donaldson with the eyes of what I felt like was like, hello, what are we paying you for? He was not nearly as involved. This time, he seems, dare I say, excited.

Speaker 2 But off the chair, he's very expressive. Even his kids, there will be short moments where the judge is on sidebar with the attorneys.
Sidebar, they play the white noise machine.

Speaker 2 You're not allowed to talk. The judge is still on the bench.
Like, Officer Riz, he's kind, but he's fair. He'll be like, hey, you, no talking, right?

Speaker 2 The kids, they're like smiling they're giggling like the teacher just stepped out of the room and then eventually Sean Combs will look back at his three sons and they're smiling and nodding at each other and I know a lot of you guys said that I do not have the faculties to interpret those nods but this one was very interesting

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Speaker 2 Other points of the cross-examination. Combs is sitting in between.
So this is very interesting. So I thought he was going to be on a full like female table, female-led table.

Speaker 2 He's actually back to most of the original seating. So it's Tenny Garagos who's constantly passing post-its to Esteveo.
Then you have Mark Agnifilo, who's sitting right next to Sean.

Speaker 2 Then right next to him is Brian Steele and then Alexandra Shapiro. Now, Mark Agnifilo and Sean are sitting like two guys in a boardroom watching an intern give a presentation.

Speaker 2 I don't know who the intern is in this scenario. I don't think it's Esteveo.
Maybe it's more Cassie. Maybe no one.
It's just like, that's the best way I can describe the energy.

Speaker 2 It's like they're leaned back in that boardroom CEO

Speaker 2 demeanor and they look slightly amused. Like they're not laughing or smirking, but they don't look that tense or stressed.
So they go back and forth between these vibes.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, Brian Steele looks very stressed. He looks like he's being held hostage.
He looks like he misses young thug.

Speaker 2 There is this very awkward moment during a recess where everyone walks back in and Cassie's husband walks in and appears that, so my researcher and I both clocked it,

Speaker 2 him and Sean Combs make prolonged eye contact. Wait.

Speaker 2 Alex Fine and Sean Combs make prolonged eye contact. I would even consider it glaring.
And so much is said through that look, nothing great.

Speaker 2 But immediately after, Brian Steele and Mark Agnifilo start comforting Sean Combs like he just saw the boogeyman. And my researcher

Speaker 2 like patting his back, like talking to him, almost like they're giving him a pep talk. They're both leaned into the sides of his face.
Like, it's okay. Like, that's the vibe.

Speaker 2 I don't know if they said it's okay, but that's the vibe.

Speaker 3 So they saw the exchange of the look.

Speaker 2 Okay. And they're both like comforting him.
Like, he just saw the boogeyman. That's the feeling.
Like, they're really comforting him. I've never seen them comfort him like this.

Speaker 2 They'll hug, they'll like tap each other on the back, but this was like calming someone down, comforting. I don't know.
It was weird. It was weird.

Speaker 2 Now, there were moments where I think the defense were trying to prove a lot of points but it really depends on how the jurors are receiving this information it's hard to say because I do think there is a small discrepancy between what the internet thinks and maybe what the jurors think the jurors a lot of them have poker face but there will be times where I feel like they are not responding the way the internet is responding okay to some things that are said.

Speaker 3 Such as

Speaker 2 I think a lot of the text messages did not sit well with some of the jurors is the feeling I got. I don't, I really have no way to prove it.

Speaker 2 It's just like an intuitive feeling that my researchers and I felt. It would be like moments where a vulgar text message would be shown.

Speaker 2 It would not be read out, but then you would see like a juror look at the screen and then kind of eyebrows raised and start writing in their notebook.

Speaker 2 So it's like, I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's a small thing, but collectively over time,

Speaker 2 comprehensively, it's kind of like, oh, oh, oh, what's happening, right? So it's very, it's a little different.

Speaker 2 Esteveo asks Cassie, it was a very different relationship from any other relationship that you've had before, right? It was exciting. It was much different.
It was passionate. There was passion, yes.

Speaker 2 And it opened up your world tremendously, right?

Speaker 2 Cassie gets quiet. She kind of cocks her head to the side.
She purses her lips like, wait, what does that even mean?

Speaker 2 There's not really a yes or no answer to that one for me. Did it open up your world?

Speaker 2 In a different way, yeah, I'll say that. The defense pulls up an exhibit, a text message from October 14th, 2007.
Esteveo mentions, can you read from this or would you prefer if I read it?

Speaker 2 You can read it, I can read it, it's just... It's kind of making me giggle because it's from 2007.
I know, we're taking you back. You can do it though.

Speaker 2 Esteveo starts reading Cassie's message out loud. We've only really had one week of each other just together, and I can say that it's been the best and worst.

Speaker 2 I've never felt so loved, safe, and empowered since we've come together. When I'm with you, I feel like I'm your woman and no one else's.

Speaker 2 I feel protected when I'm in your arms and so comfortable that I can sleep and not worry about anything.

Speaker 2 You are one of the sweetest, most sincere people I've met in a long time, and I cannot express enough how grateful I am that you've chosen to be a part of my life.

Speaker 2 I don't want to rush things, but I can't help but sit with you and dream up a beautiful future together. Who knew I'd fall so fast? You make me feel like I can do anything, and that's real.

Speaker 2 On the other hand, you're constantly weary of me. I'm sneaky.
I never seem to make the right decisions to you. I'm a spoiled brat.
I'm dramatic, disrespectful, and some reason you don't trust me.

Speaker 2 It always goes back to, well, maybe Carrie would have been the better one to go after since I've witnessed you more than once, you realizing that she's way better fitting for you than I am.

Speaker 2 Carrie Morgan being Cassie's best friend of 17 years that she no longer talks to, that was also subpoenaed to be on the standpoint.

Speaker 3 Wait, she's saying maybe Carrie is a better fit for you?

Speaker 2 Yeah, because she's saying I've witnessed you more than once realizing that she's way better fit for you than I am.

Speaker 2 It's hard for me to handle that as I feel like I've given so much of myself in this short time, but whatever. I can take it.
I'm guessing there will always be something negative. I don't know.

Speaker 2 I really don't. I'm hurt that you think that I'm a malicious person.
The dinner I went to last night was definitely bad timing, but it had been planned before all the drama things had to be handled.

Speaker 2 Just like how you have to handle your business. I never step on your toes when it comes to handling yours.

Speaker 2 I'm about to get on this plane and I'm sad, mad, frustrated, and hurt that you just don't feel like I'm the right one.

Speaker 2 I really do love you and I hope to just be able to learn what it is you want in a woman and give it to you. You're very important, and I hope you know that.
Cass.

Speaker 2 There's a lot in this message, right, Miss Ventura? There sure is, yeah.

Speaker 2 Cassie says reading this feels like, I don't know, just like reading it like a journal entry. This message suggests that you are hoping to have more of a relationship with Mr.
Combs, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You're dreaming up a beautiful future together, right? Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 Esteveo then brings up the fact that Cassie was dating another producer prior to dating Combs, which the sentiment being, okay, the defense is trying to perhaps inconspicuously try to make the jurors feel like Cassie is someone who dates with opportunity.

Speaker 2 So you just said that prior to your relationship with Mr. Combs, you were in a relationship with Mr.
Leslie, right? Mm-hmm. And how much older than you was Mr.
Leslie? I believe 10 years older.

Speaker 2 When did you start dating him? When I was 19? 18? 19? And it was relatively serious? Yeah.

Speaker 2 In fact, I think you had the tattoo of his initials on your body, right? Uh-huh. So because you spent three years with Mr.
Leslie, when you started dating Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs, it was not the first time you had been dating an older man, right?

Speaker 2 Second, but yeah.

Speaker 2 In another message, Esteveo is trying to prove that Cassie loves freak-offs, with Cassie texting Combs, I miss you, and then sending a very explicit message, and I miss our love sessions in the afternoon.

Speaker 2 And when you're referring to love sessions in the afternoon, you're referring to freak offs, right? I don't know in this message, but they keep reading the messages. At the bottom, Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs says, you up, want to have some freak fun in the afternoon, Smiley Face? Are you horny or sleepy? We can sleep or make love today.

Speaker 2 You respond, I'm both, lol. I thought we were going to lay up and spend time, but you want to just come here so we can talk in person? I was thinking I wasn't going to see you until tomorrow.

Speaker 2 I had stuff planned for the day, but I'm good to cancel. Cassie says she doesn't remember this conversation at all.

Speaker 2 But continuing on, another thread where Cassie texts Combs, I'm just going to lay by the pool for some fun if it's cool. Wish we could have FO'd before you left.
My period is over. Sad face.

Speaker 2 Esteveo continues. On that page, Mr.
Combs is not initiating the freak off conversation, right?

Speaker 2 No, not in that one.

Speaker 2 Later, Cassie mentions that sometimes if she had a big event coming up, like her movie premiere, she would offer a freak off as pre-damage control.

Speaker 2 He would just have made it miserable for me. I never really had like the chance to or opportunity to enjoy the things that I'd worked really hard on.

Speaker 2 So I just felt like I was just trying to play a balancing act a bit.

Speaker 2 Establo starts relatively grilling Cassie. And it wasn't only sex that you were doing in the hotel, right? Having in the hotel? Right.
You were also listening to music, hanging out? True.

Speaker 2 In fact, I believe part of the reason you wanted to participate in the freak offs was to have your time with him, right? Yeah. And it was a special time that you cherished, right? Right.

Speaker 2 I think in proving the

Speaker 2 fact that Cassie wanted the freak offs, which is what the defense is saying in the opening statements, that's the fact that they're trying to prove to the jurors.

Speaker 2 I would say, I think emotionally the explicit messages probably have the most impact on the jurors.

Speaker 2 And then a lot of these other side messages, it's like you could really go either way depending on the juror.

Speaker 2 Because I mean, in the direct, they also brought up a lot of text messages where she's initiating freak offs.

Speaker 2 So it really just like depends on I guess the juror because it doesn't matter what we think. It matters what the 12 jurors think.

Speaker 2 A big point of contention that was mentioned in the defense opening statement as well was the fact that the freak off videos that the government got possession of, they received through Cassie's computers and her electronics, not Sean Combs's, insinuating that she had the power, that she was the one in the control.

Speaker 2 She did not fear blackmail because she was in possession of said blackmail. Cassie texts Combs, I just deleted our little video off this camera.
It was so dope. He says, I'm going to do it again.

Speaker 2 Esteveo looks at Cassie. Does that suggest to you that he was referring to taking another video with you? I would think so.
I just don't know what we're talking about exactly.

Speaker 2 I will say in court, it just feels like they're constantly showing her 5 million things to refresh her memory that we're not allowed to see.

Speaker 2 So the jurors don't see it either. They're not entered as evidence.

Speaker 3 So what are they showing them text messages?

Speaker 2 Yeah, they're just showing Cassie a bunch of things. She has to sit there and read through a bunch of things.
And then they're like, do you remember that day?

Speaker 2 It was just not well prepared is the feeling. I don't know.
She's going through text messages, not in any sort of chronological order. At one point, she's confused about the timeline.

Speaker 2 She's getting very frustrated with this timeline because they just keep grilling her on questions and she's like, I don't even know when this is from. I don't even know what we're talking about.

Speaker 2 Estaveo continues about the videos.

Speaker 3 Do you think that is a strategy or no?

Speaker 2 I think so because

Speaker 2 when she does say like, I don't remember this,

Speaker 2 I do think that some jurors could perceive it as she doesn't remember it because it doesn't look good for her. Oh, I see.
Was the feeling that I got from just observing the jurors? I don't know.

Speaker 2 I can't read minds. It was the feeling.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sounds like she's trying to maybe potentially evading this.

Speaker 2 Yeah, like, I don't know why I sent that, you know, but it's like, to me, I don't know if it's like the previous biases that we have, but it's like, I'm like, I genuinely, she's flipping through so many papers, I would be confused as well.

Speaker 2 Yeah. But Estaveo continues about the videos.
And going back to the videos, you testified on Direct about deleting videos that were in your possession, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 And by recording them on your devices, it gave you the capability of deleting them, right? If I saw them, yes.

Speaker 2 And at a certain point in your relationship, you insisted on recording them on your device so that you could delete them, right? No.

Speaker 2 Would you want to record them on your device so you could delete them? I didn't want them to be recorded at all. If they were going to be recorded, you'd prefer they would be on your device.

Speaker 2 I don't know.

Speaker 2 Esteveo also points out a text thread of them talking about an FO for later that night, which Combs texts asking, can we kiss tonight? A lot.

Speaker 2 To which Cassie responds, yes, which goes back to her direct. She said she hated kissing during

Speaker 2 freak-offs. He says, what are you doing? Where are you at? At Hustler, about to check out, trying to find something to impress you.
L-O-L-U? Great, go to hotel.

Speaker 2 okay how long you think you're gonna be to which Esteveo asks Cassie and in this exchange so far you have not said no right correct the next important part of the text is brought up Esteveo is asking Cassie what she responds next and she says shit I left the iPad should I go get it Esteveo asks when you say you left the iPad That meant you previously had possession of the iPad and had left it wherever you left it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I just don't know whose iPad it was. So it had been in your possession, right? Yes.
Combs appears to love this line of questioning because he's like bopping.

Speaker 2 He's like nodding his head along to it. And you told him that you left the iPad because you knew that he would want it for the freak off, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 And it was anticipated that the iPad would be used for some sort of recording for the freak off, right?

Speaker 2 In 2017, yes. And you asked him if you should go get it, right? I did.
And he says, yeah, fuck, right?

Speaker 2 Yes.

Speaker 2 They read the next message where Cassie says, okay, I will run there. Sorry, I had it hidden so I forgot to grab it.

Speaker 2 In the same text message exchange from 2017, Combs asks Cassie if she wants pizza, to which she responds, almost there, I'm good, I think, maybe a slice, I'm too excited.

Speaker 2 Esteveo questions her, that's referring to the freak off that you were about to attend, correct? In my mind, I probably would have been excited to see him and have fun with him.

Speaker 2 But the words you texted him were, I'm so excited, right?

Speaker 2 I'm too excited. I'm too excited, excuse me.
And this was after a discussion about negotiating supplies and logistics for a freak off correct yes thank you

Speaker 2 so they're trying to prove she had access to the blackmail material that she was supposedly very scared of they're trying to argue that she initiated and never said no to the freak offs and now they're trying to bring in jealousy which was a huge part of their defense opening statement they were saying even a lot of the violence and the toxic relationship between Sean Combs and a lot of his um

Speaker 3 they say like girlfriends and romantic partners prosecutors say victims right is through drug usage and jealousy so much jealousy okay so like the materials right like let's say she has it on her device yeah which is fine that that still doesn't mean that she wants this to be out there So let's say if someone else say, hey, I'm going to spread this video.

Speaker 3 That's still blackmail, right?

Speaker 2 I think the defense is trying to argue that he couldn't even do that because she has possession of the iPad.

Speaker 3 No, but he said he has it too. He has texted her that, hey, I'm going to send those videos.
So he did say that he will spread the video.

Speaker 2 But I don't know. That's just what they're arguing.
Okay. Yeah.
I am trying to keep, like, give you the flow of what happened in the courtroom. Right.

Speaker 3 I think the point they're saying, oh, you have the video, so it's not that he wants the blackmail. Exactly.
Right. But to me, it's like...

Speaker 3 That doesn't correlate to being blackmailed just because I have this video.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but also I think another thing to say.

Speaker 3 Well, even if I have this video and I let's say I share with you as a boyfriend or girlfriend still I can be blackmailed, right?

Speaker 2 Yes, and additionally I think it's very pertinent to consider the idea that a lot of celebrities even like Jennifer Lawrence for example her iCloud was hacked.

Speaker 2 So I think there is a strong level of paranoia that even if you think that you have the only copy of something

Speaker 2 I mean

Speaker 2 I think you could easily be blackmailed, especially at that level where he presumably has a lot of power.

Speaker 2 I just don't know i think as a woman it's kind of hard to see esteveo's points with certain things because it's kind of like

Speaker 2 like i get that this is what the defense is going for but also as a woman it's like i think a lot i think a lot of women in the gallery of the courtroom likely felt the same way is the whispers in the hallways i felt it's like yeah legally we don't really know because we're not attorneys The jurors have different perceptions, but as a woman, it's like so many people could relate to those feelings of anxiety.

Speaker 2 Now, they bring in jealousy and she is asked, what would trigger Sean Combs' incessant calling from your perspective?

Speaker 2 It could just be anything from not telling him where I was, many things, just angry with me about anything? Why do you think that he was concerned when he didn't know where you were?

Speaker 2 I think because he would assume I was cheating, but I don't know. So the defense brought up again, jealousy, insatiable jealousy, and they say it goes both ways.

Speaker 2 They enter another exhibit that shows a text message where Cassie texts Sean Combs. Amazing, I love you so much, it made me feel like I can't wait until we don't care anymore.

Speaker 2 What did you mean until we don't care anymore? Honestly, I don't know. I haven't seen this message in a while, but we definitely were not open about our relationship at the beginning part.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Does it suggest that you are looking forward to becoming public with your relationship? That I can agree with, yeah.

Speaker 2 They show another text message that reads, and they have Cassie read it. So you hung up.

Speaker 2 It's like I need to have something written out to say to you with no breathing room or you'll get mad at me and hang up. I haven't talked to you at all.

Speaker 2 I know you can take three minutes out of your day to talk to me and you don't even try. You're in too much of a rush to get me off the phone.

Speaker 2 That's not being in a relationship with somebody that you love and are in love with. I'm really hurt by the way you deal with me.
I don't need your money. I need some attention.

Speaker 2 I'm thankful, but I can pay for these things myself.

Speaker 2 Another one from July 2nd, 2013. By this point, they have been together for a good amount of time.
So this is like later. A lot of the messages are from like 2007, 2008.
So 2013.

Speaker 2 She texts him, as much as you think that you're Bruce Willis.

Speaker 2 Now, side note, Bruce Willis has a very healthy relationship with his ex Demi Moore whilst raising their kids together, even though they both have new partners.

Speaker 2 She's like, you think you're Bruce Willis? You aren't. He's married.
And before he was married, the family as a whole went on trips together.

Speaker 2 So she's saying he's married the new love of his life and even like before that, the family went on trips together as a whole. Or just him and his woman.

Speaker 2 Eddie Murphy and Paige took his kids away on their own. He didn't go with his ex because that's not who he's in love with.
I've been at the edge of tears this whole week.

Speaker 2 I don't think that you sympathize with my feelings. I understand you feeling like you need to protect your children, but after a while, it's like, for what?

Speaker 2 They've never known you and Kim to be together unless there's something I just don't know about. They were babies when we started dating.

Speaker 2 If Chance can go away with her dad and not her mom, so Chance is the daughter of Sarah Chapman and Sean.

Speaker 2 I think the other kids can too. The more time that goes by, the harder it is to understand.
I'm here. I'm ready to be that woman and I'm in a constant fight because you won't ever allow it.

Speaker 2 This isn't what I want. I can't be that woman this way.
I'm bracing myself for pictures that are going to break my heart. That's where my head is at.

Speaker 2 So Cassie explains that she's frustrated because A lot of the holidays she couldn't spend it with Sean. Kim Porter and the family would all go off.

Speaker 2 But a lot of the times it's not even like Sarah Chapman would come is her argument.

Speaker 2 Like, you keep saying that it's because the kids need Kim Porter, but they never thought you guys were like in a happy marriage.

Speaker 2 So she's just saying like, you're making excuses and I'm getting upset.

Speaker 2 Esteveo looks up at her. Miss Ventura, you were upset that you weren't integrated into Mr.
Combs' family life, right? Yep.

Speaker 2 That you didn't get a chance to form a relationship with his children, correct? Correct. You'd been together with him for years at this point, right? Almost seven years here.

Speaker 2 When you would see photos of him in Kim Porter, that would be extremely hurtful, right? Not always.

Speaker 2 If you saw them on social media when he was on vacation with Kim and his kids together, that was a little heartbreaking, right? It could be.

Speaker 2 You just didn't want to be a part of his sexual fantasy, right? Because, you know, there's this point of, I feel like I'm just for freak-offs.

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 Mr. Combs texts back, man, I'm going to spend time with my kids.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I won't let no pictures be taken.
She responds, well, I hope that you enjoy the kids.

Speaker 2 I don't trust that after the type of sexual relationship you've had with me, you had with her and have in the recent past.

Speaker 2 Today I texted you that I wish we could have FO'd before you left, by the way.

Speaker 2 I think this part is just sad.

Speaker 2 But all good. That was what I didn't get to say.
I'm done venting. Thank you for hearing me out somewhat.
Hope you don't shut your phone down like you said you were going to.

Speaker 2 That would really break my heart. I won't.
And you still have no response to what I said about an FO question mark?

Speaker 2 I think this has been interpreted some different ways. Some netizens feel like it's her initiating an FO and like using it as her own power play.
A lot of other netizens think this is just really sad.

Speaker 2 It's clear that she knows that's what he wants to use her for. And in these moments where she's expressing sadness, she pulls back so quickly.
She doesn't even double down.

Speaker 2 She's like, by the way, if you're interested, you know, so it's been interpreted interpreted differently depending on who the person is.

Speaker 2 Another text message, Chain, reads, Combs starts off by first saying, the things I want to do for you and to you, I want to be nasty for you. I want to do what you want me to do.

Speaker 2 I want to make you finish more than you've ever finished. I want you to feel safe to let go.

Speaker 2 The pause is in the courtroom. Can you begin reading your response, Ms.
Ventura? We'll take it one line at a time.

Speaker 3 When was this text from? Oh,

Speaker 2 probably like 2012, I want to say. Okay.
Can you begin reading line by line? I like that. I want it.
And I want to give you the same. I just think that I have to trust you beyond just being sexual.

Speaker 2 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 In order for me to be more open with the things we do in bed, I need to feel safe like home, like this is my husband, and this is the only man that will ever see this aggressive sexual side of me.

Speaker 2 I will say that Esteveo does a like relatively good job at incorporating pauses. Again, sometimes it's to craft her next question.

Speaker 2 Other times it feels like it's intentionally done to let some of these messages sit with the jurors. Now, Esteveo asks, does this reflect a communication between you and Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs that you want him to be the only one that he's doing these things with? Withdrawn. She withdraws her own question.

Speaker 2 And then she asks, it reflects that your acceptance of doing freak offs with him is that it's like home. This is my husband.

Speaker 2 And this is the only man that will ever have this aggressive sexual side of me, right? Am I reading that correctly? Prosecutor Johnson leans in.

Speaker 2 Objection, sustained, which means rephrase your question or move on. Sustained means that's not a good question.
Overruled means you can re-ask that question and it should be answered.

Speaker 2 Esteveo has Cassie read the first, the rest of the message while she reads it to the court.

Speaker 2 The last time was a mistake, but since has made me feel a little dirty and grimy as opposed to sensual and spontaneous.

Speaker 2 That's the only reason why I go back and forth in my mind with wanting and not wanting to do it. When we used to freak off when we were so in love, there were no questions asked.

Speaker 2 It felt right, like it literally made sense for the next step of our sex life together. I get nervous that I'm becoming the girlfriend that you get your fantasies off with and that's that.

Speaker 2 I don't get the other part anymore at least. When you sent that message, were you afraid that Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs was only seeing you for the sex in this way and that you were only fulfilling that part of his life?

Speaker 2 Again, I don't like remember this message specifically, but at the end of it, it sounds like that, yeah, like I was worried about that.

Speaker 2 And that your hesitancy was that you were afraid that you would just become the girlfriend to get his fantasies off with, right? That you wouldn't be his true full girlfriend.

Speaker 2 That's a way to look at it, I guess, yeah. You say that you go back and forth in your mind with wanting and not wanting to do it, right? Yep.

Speaker 2 And you say, that's the only reason why I go back and forth in my mind, right?

Speaker 2 That's what it says in the message, yes. Because at the time, you were afraid that you were being treated as someone who could just get his fantasies off with, right?

Speaker 2 That was a concern. So they're trying to establish that the only reason she didn't want to do freak offs was because she's concerned that that's all she's good for.

Speaker 2 So that's the point that the defense is trying to make. And you were still not public in your relationship with him, right? Correct.

Speaker 2 And so it was a fear that you would never be his public girlfriend, right? I guess that was something that was thought about. It wasn't a huge fear.
It was kind of an understanding we had more so.

Speaker 2 Esteveo even brings up that Combs once left a freak off in a hotel room with Cassie to go see Kim Porter in another room. Were you jealous of Miss Porter? I had some jealousy of Miss Porter, yeah.

Speaker 2 There were periods during the holidays when you learned that Mr. Combs was spending time with Miss Porter? I always knew that, every holiday.
And did that upset you? It did, yeah.

Speaker 2 And do you recall a time in April 2014 when you learned of someone named Gina?

Speaker 2 Gina is an ex-girlfriend of Sean Combs. There was, this is around the time that he was dating Young Miami publicly.

Speaker 2 And there was a lot of back and forth between the two of them where Gina would Snapchat or Instagram story Sean Combs in her house.

Speaker 2 And then Young Miami was making fun of the fact that maybe Sean Combs is paying her rent, but she still has carpet in her house. And there was a lot of like little drama.

Speaker 2 But I think the biggest takeaway was Gina at one point did go onto a podcast to allege that Sean Combs was incredibly violent with her.

Speaker 2 and that he would he forced her to terminate pregnancies as well. So Gina does come up a lot in this.

Speaker 2 There were lots of speculations that she was actually going to be victim number two, but the fact that her name is coming up and victim number two is Jane, who is a pseudonym, it doesn't appear that she is victim number two.

Speaker 2 When Gina comes up, the way that Combs is sitting is like a teacher's pet. Like, I want to answer the question.
Like, pick me vibes. Yes.
Cassie says she found out through social media.

Speaker 2 And what was your reaction to that? I was really upset. Cassie says that Sean just denied it to some extent.
And in fact, he did not break it off with Gina as you were led to believe, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah. And did that upset you? At the time, yeah.
It did.

Speaker 2 Cassie admits, yeah, it led to arguments between the two of them. Were there many women that you saw on social media who claimed to have relationships with Mr.
Combs?

Speaker 2 Not many, like a lot, but not crazy. But you reacted when you saw on social media that Mr.
Combs was with some other female, right? Yes, mainly Gina. Was Gina the main problem in your relationship?

Speaker 2 I would say so. Was Mr.
Combs consistently denying his relationship to Gina with you? For the most part. And how did that make you feel?

Speaker 2 Not great. She says she finally drew the line when she saw a video of Combs at a music conference literally trying to hide Gina off to the side.

Speaker 2 And she does somewhat corroborate this in a podcast that has now since been deleted.

Speaker 2 Gina said in a podcast she went to, I believe it was French Montana's birthday party where Sean Combs allegedly had her sitting behind like a poster board. Do you remember that?

Speaker 2 That said like happy birthday or no, I think it was Meek Mill. It's either Meek Mill or French Montana.
I think it's Meek Mill. Yes.
And then she like leaned over while Sean Combs was bent over.

Speaker 2 I'm sorry, forgive me. This was like months ago.
Okay. And I think she had said like, happy birthday, Meek.
And then she said that she was physically assaulted in the car that night.

Speaker 2 To which Esteveo says, and he was telling you that you were, if not the number one girlfriend because of Kim Porter, the number two, right?

Speaker 2 Uh-huh.

Speaker 2 October 13th, 2012, Combs texts Cassie, you ready for tonight? Yes. I just got to get stuff.
You got all you need? Man, you had all day, all day. It's always something.
One day. Wait, what?

Speaker 2 So it seems like he's getting agitated that she still needs to pick up supplies for the freak off. Oh.

Speaker 2 Yeah. I don't know why this was shown because I was like, I don't think, I don't think it's making the point that you wanted to make.

Speaker 2 I'm sure there's like a legal point that they're trying to make, but there were certain points where I'm like, the point was not made. I feel like it went the other way.

Speaker 2 A few months later, Combs texts Cassie. I said, answer the question.
What am I doing? What am I doing disrespectful in the picture? So clearly, Cassie is upset about some sort of picture.

Speaker 2 And he said, what am I doing that's disrespectful? You're making me look like a side piece and that is not what I thought I was. And you won't come to bullshit.

Speaker 2 We've, we'll all have a great time because for 2013, I'm not on any okey-dokey bowl. It is what it is.
I am who I am to you and I'm clear. We'll have a good time no matter what.
I'm having a ball.

Speaker 2 I'll be happy with you no matter what. I'll treat you as a king no matter what.

Speaker 2 Esteveo asks Cassie, you're concerned that you're looking like a side piece. What do you mean by that? Not a main girlfriend? And that upset you, right? Apparently so.

Speaker 2 Because you wanted to be the main girlfriend, right? I thought I was. I just don't know what we're even talking about, though.
He's talking about a picture. I don't know what the picture is.

Speaker 2 Esteveo ignores her. You testified on direct that you were insanely jealous, right? I did say that, yeah.
Side note, this is what was said during direct.

Speaker 2 Cassie says more or less there was a lot of cheating in the relationship.

Speaker 2 She says there were times she saw other guys, he saw other women, and she said, I was insanely jealous, but also super young, didn't get it at all. But I was definitely, yeah, young and jealous.

Speaker 2 When you say that you didn't get it, what didn't you get? So this is Prosecutor Johnson during the direct.

Speaker 2 I didn't get that he was him, as he would say, I'm puff, puff daddy, and puff daddy has many women where, you know, he likes the company of women.

Speaker 2 And yeah, I had to just really learn that over time, despite what he would tell us, tell me just between us. Esteveo continues, you were insanely jealous, right?

Speaker 2 Sure, but I wasn't, I expressed that. Can I speak? Of course.

Speaker 2 I expressed insanely jealous is who I was then, and it didn't pertain to every situation, but I was definitely jealous of certain situations that he was in.

Speaker 2 So it seemed hypocritical to you that he would date other women, but simultaneously expect you to only be in a sexual relationship with him, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Jurors seem locked in for the text message portions of the cross-examination. Other parts, they look like they're falling asleep.
So I'm just going to run you through a few lines of questioning.

Speaker 2 And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that both the direct and the cross, they just keep jumping around too much. They keep repeating the same question.
And I get the point.

Speaker 2 They repeat the same question, maybe in the direct because they're trying to pull more emotion or information out of Cassie, same as the cross.

Speaker 2 However, I think like when you ask multiple times, were you scared of the violence in the relationship? The first time Cassie responds, it's like a very emotional moment. You sit with it.

Speaker 2 And then if you ask her five more times, I think it's human nature, like each time you hear similar phrasing of the words, the impact lessens.

Speaker 2 And that's like one thing that I was reading from attorneys who were talking about doing directs and cross because they were like, you want that emotion to be fresh.

Speaker 2 Like the more you hear it, the more sensitized you get to it.

Speaker 2 So, I mean, the cross as well, it was jumping all over the place.

Speaker 2 One line of questioning, I think, is trying to establish that Cassie is not scared and that she had ample opportunity to leave with Esteveo asking, even though you were in a relationship with each other, you weren't together all the time, right?

Speaker 2 No. In fact, you often had long breaks from each other when you didn't see each other, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 And he sometimes would have to travel for long periods of time when he was doing something for work, right? Yep.

Speaker 2 They also try to argue that she's a very strong, capable, independent woman, which was said controversially in the defense opening statement with Esteveo asking questions like, at the time you were a very successful 21-year-old, right?

Speaker 2 I was trying, yeah.

Speaker 2 They try to prove a point by asking which celebrity showed up to our 21st birthday party. Cassie kind of looks confused.
Like, what does that even have to do anything with success?

Speaker 2 She's like, Sean was there. He brought Dallas Austin.
He brought Britney Spears. I think those were the two people that stand out to me.

Speaker 2 How is it that a 21-year-old is able to attract such celebrities to her birthday party in Vegas? That was all him. Yeah, I didn't even know them.

Speaker 2 What accomplishments had you already achieved by the time you were 21? Cassie says she had a pretty good first successful album. She's like, it did well, I think.
We have a plaque.

Speaker 2 You had a very popular song song that were well known at the time. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And people wanted to know you and get to know you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And you've been modeling for some time? Yes. And you're very beautiful and charming? Question mark? Like, that was a really random, and she says, thank you.

Speaker 2 And everyone in the courtroom starts really awkwardly laughing. It's just awkward.
I don't know if she was trying to get her to say yes to make her seem like, oh yeah, I'm so pretty.

Speaker 2 Thank you, you know, but Cassie felt awkward. She said, thank you.
And everyone's laughing because it was just like a very,

Speaker 2 I think it's an odd moment where the tension of it all, everybody was holding on to tension and then they just like released it in this giggle. I don't think anyone thought it was funny.

Speaker 2 It was just uncomfortable. Yeah.
It was like really weird. What was your financial situation as a 21-year-old having a successful album out?

Speaker 2 Cassie explains it's mainly her modeling money that she saved up at this point. Were you able to have an apartment in Manhattan? Yeah, my own place.
And pay for your own clothes and goods? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Another key point the defense brings up, whether you think it's a point that was made or not is up to you, but they bring up that Cassie testified indirect that she saw Combs hold her friend over the balcony before he threw her onto the patio furniture.

Speaker 2 They show text messages to Cassie, not to us, between Cassie and Christina Coram, the chief of staff for Sean Combs. Didn't you tell Miss Quorum that you just learned about Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs's activities on the balcony? You told Miss Coram that you learned after the fact that Mr. Combs supposedly dangled Miss Bongalon's feet off the balcony, right?

Speaker 2 No, you didn't tell Miss Quorum that. I'm not sure what you're asking me.
It's kind of confusing. Did you tell Miss Quorum that you had just learned something crazy? I saw that I did text that.

Speaker 2 I don't know if that's what I'm referring to because a lot of crazy things happened. Isn't it true that you learned about this incident on the balcony after the fact?

Speaker 2 I saw what I saw, so I don't know. That line of questioning kind of ends there.
They also try to highlight that Cassie did have relationships outside of Combs.

Speaker 2 Cassie disagrees, stating that it occurs when they were on breaks, but Esteveo asks her, what would trigger his incessant calling from your perspective? From my perspective, what would trigger it?

Speaker 2 Could be anything from not telling him where I was, many things, just being angry with me about anything. Why did you think he was concerned when he didn't know where you were?

Speaker 2 I think because he thought he would assume that I was cheating, but I don't know. Mr.
Combs also developed suspicions that you were not faithful to him, correct? Correct.

Speaker 2 What was his reaction like when he developed those suspicions? It was a little scary, yeah.

Speaker 2 So they start bringing up Kid Kid Cuddy.

Speaker 2 They start bringing up the fact that he learned about that connection between during a freak off where he went through her phone and then he tried to attack her. She ran away.
She got to a hotel.

Speaker 2 Then she decided that she was going to go talk to Sean Combs at his house. He kicked her in the back.
She went back to the hotel. The whole hotel room was trashed.

Speaker 2 She and Scott Muscati, which is Kid Cuddy, they went to Connecticut to be with her family. This is around Christmas time.

Speaker 2 And then eventually she breaks up with him because she felt like this was a dangerous situation. By New Year's she's back with Sean Combs.
Did you feel justified in cheating on him with Mr.

Speaker 2 Muscati because of Mr. Combs' infidelities? I could have, possibly, I don't know.
To your knowledge, this was particularly offensive to Mr. Combs because of Kid Cuddy's stature in the industry, right?

Speaker 2 To my knowledge, yeah. Because from his perspective, he was cheating on you with people who weren't celebrities, right? In 2011, I don't think so.
And because you understood that Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs put you in the studio with Kid Cuddy. Yes.
You would frequently have text arguments about cheating and he would bring up Kid Cuddy all the time, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 He would always throw it back in your face, right? He brought it up quite a bit. So the main point that was argued here is that Combs was the one that introduced her to Kid Cuddy.

Speaker 2 I think that the defense here is trying to establish a pattern of cheating from both sides.

Speaker 2 I think it also probably connects to the fact that Sean Combs had hired Alex Fine as her personal trainer, and then they ended up getting married.

Speaker 2 Again, I think every single person is going to have a different reaction to this. That's the point that the defense is trying to establish from the court's perspective.

Speaker 2 Like being in the courtroom, that was the perspective. They also bring up the fact that she was in South Africa filming a movie called Honey 3 and that's when she started dating Michael B.

Speaker 2 Jordan and that she had another brief relationship with someone who was an NBA star. She doesn't know if he still is.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Estaveo brings up another celebrity. He found out that you were dancing with another person in the entertainment industry and was upset and took your phone, right? I honestly don't know.

Speaker 2 Do you remember the occasion when he suspected of you dancing with Chris Brown? I do.

Speaker 2 Which side note, weird connection, Mark Gargos was Chris Bound's attorney during the incident with Rihanna and he is technically a long-term attorney for Sean Combs.

Speaker 2 So just like random attorney connection. I do, but I was not.
He thought you were, right? I don't know. Defense Exhibit 1303A is received into evidence.
Estevea leans towards the podium. I'll read Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs' message. Can I not get a chance to make things right? It seems like you're blaming everything on me.
It's like you have anger to me. I've been taking care of you.

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, I'm not running around telling our business, but my family knows because I need their support right now. You took care of me materialistically, not where I needed it.

Speaker 2 I have lived in this bubble by myself for too long. I'm too dope.
You may not be happy, but maybe it's because you surround yourself with people that always take from you.

Speaker 2 I don't need you taking care of Kim, Sarah, and Gina. I needed to love you and put me first.
I just don't trust anymore. The last shot put the nail in the coffin.

Speaker 2 I promised myself I wouldn't be with you anymore if you did that to me again. You lied to me.

Speaker 2 When I think to Burning Man a year ago, all the things I found out that you paid for and continued happening, I just love myself more. I'm not blaming you.

Speaker 2 Maybe I didn't try, but you wanted me to be a machine and forgive you every time, and she never went away.

Speaker 2 When you're talking about the last shot put in the nail in the coffin, that she never went away, you're talking about Gina, right? I would think so.

Speaker 2 Combs is slowly nodding his head during the sign of questioning.

Speaker 2 Now, Cassie was really collected for like her 12-hour cross-examination. There are parts where she would be waiting and awkwardly kind of smiling at Esteveo.

Speaker 2 She seemed very genuine, like she wasn't like throwing daggers at Esteveo. When it was quiet, she would just kind of awkwardly sit there and smile.

Speaker 2 At one point, Esteveo asks her if a personal assistant ever came into the hotel room during a freak off. Cassie is like, to my knowledge, they set up and helped clean up after freak offs.

Speaker 2 I don't know if they ever came in during. You would remember if an employee came into the room while you were in the middle of a session with an escort, right? Maybe, I don't know.
I was high as well.

Speaker 2 I just, I had my privacy invaded quite a bit while I was in that relationship, so I can imagine.

Speaker 2 So a lot of people, especially after seeing Don Richard's cross, a lot of people think that Cassie held her own during the cross examination. Regardless of like what netizens I guess feel about her,

Speaker 2 yeah, she was very good at answering questions genuinely and not getting bulldozed.

Speaker 2 Later, Cassie mentions that she's not a huge going out type of person. You've never been a huge going out person? No, no.
Personally liked it? No.

Speaker 2 But you did a lot of it. I did.
In fact, you were paid handsomely for it, right? Yes. And you spent a lot of time in clubs.
Yeah, too much.

Speaker 2 There's another ridiculous incident where Esteveo is just reading off messages. Mr.
Combs says, can you make it? I think it'll be good to go with Will tonight. Rube can take you.
You say, how are you?

Speaker 2 I love you. Mr.
Comb says, I'm missing you, Miss Belt. And you have a frowny face.
And you say, staring at our pictures from the plane, I miss you. Mr.
Comb says, I love you. Good morning to my queen.

Speaker 2 Have the greatest day at work and get a lot of work done. You say, good, good morning, my king.
You mean everything to me with extra E's and O's? And Johnson, Prosecutor Johnson, stands up.

Speaker 2 Your honor, is there a question coming? Esteveo pauses because you cannot make statements. You must ask questions during a cross-examination.
She says, Am I reading this accurately, Miss Ventura?

Speaker 2 I'm just waiting to find out what you want me to answer. Am I reading this accurately? I believe so.
You're just reading it.

Speaker 2 And then you respond, I will have the greatest day of my life until you're back home, right? Yeah, I can see that.

Speaker 2 Cassie's cousin was in the row in front of us, so her whole, um, her attorneys, and then you had Alex Fine, her brother, and her cousin. I could see her face pretty clearly, and I wrote this down.

Speaker 2 We observed that whenever Cassie had these slightly smarter responses to Esteveo, her cousin would smile up at her. Like most of the time, she was not smiling.

Speaker 2 There was one time where she was sitting down and we made awkward eye contact and she smiled, but they were like not interacting with the press.

Speaker 2 Like they were very focused on like not even looking at us, right? But

Speaker 2 she was like smiling at Cassie with all these smart moments. It was like a very interesting smile.
I don't know, but it gave me one of those moments of like standard ground smile.

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's what it felt like to us. Esteveo's cross is interesting.

Speaker 2 I will describe some of the body language.

Speaker 2 I think that she had a really hard job in the defense team because I think whoever is cross-examining Cassie, first of all, they knew it had to be a woman, obviously, but whoever is doing it, they can't come off too aggressive.

Speaker 2 They can't come off too hostile. This is victim number one of the entire case.
They have to be gentle. They have to discredit her all while being polite, not being aggressive at the same time.

Speaker 2 I think it's very tricky. I think that so far, out of everything we've seen from the defense, this is probably the hardest position one of them has been put in thus far.

Speaker 2 Probably there will be more opportunities for harder positions. But I will describe some of the body language.

Speaker 2 Estevea the whole time has her arms crossed and then she keeps like getting post-its from Tenny Garagos. She keeps looking at Mark Agnifilo.

Speaker 2 She keeps looking at Tenny while Cassie's answering the question. She does this thing where she will physically lean over the podium and like listen to Mark whisper to her the next question.

Speaker 2 And she'll do it with her arms crossed. It's like this really weird demeanor.

Speaker 2 It's like when you're doing a group project and you were not there for most of the project and the teacher, the professor is like, so who did the group project?

Speaker 2 And you lean over and they whisper and you go, so we did. That was the energy.

Speaker 2 And it was not just perceived by me because later at a sidebar, the judge tells Esteveo, one thing I'd like to avoid, I know you're almost done, sometimes a question is asked and then you're kind of going and looking at the rest of the members of the defense.

Speaker 2 I think it's disruptive in terms of you have asked a question, so you should listen to the answer. And the jury is seeing it.
I don't want that to be an element of this case.

Speaker 2 Mark, yeah, it was weird. Like she like physically just leaned over and then would come back.

Speaker 3 So the judge is saying that you should, you need to pay attention to the answer.

Speaker 2 Yes, and I think that's why the cross was so confusing and kept jumping around because it didn't feel like she's going based off of the answers that Cassie's giving.

Speaker 2 It's like she has a list of questions and she's just like checking it off.

Speaker 2 And I do think the prosecutor was doing the same thing. Johnson was doing similar things with Cassie, but it just both of them, it was, and it was

Speaker 2 so long.

Speaker 2 And I think the part that really bothered me is like, yes, you have to establish your foundation. You have to tell the jurors everything, right?

Speaker 2 But now it's like, you put such a pregnant Cassie on the stand for so long and I swear to goodness from my opinion half the time for the direct and the cross it looked like the jurors were falling asleep so I'm like why are you putting this girl through all of this just to go in circles and the jurors don't even care or at least it looks like they don't even care got it Mark tries to take the fall for it he tells the judge it's probably our fault I'll try to keep up I'll try to keep it and then he pauses because the judge interrupts miss Esteveo is in charge

Speaker 2 I'm sorry judge now there were brief arguments on whether or not the still images of freak-offs would be shown to the press and public in open court. AKA, not posted online, like sealed,

Speaker 2 like exhibits that are sealed so you can't request them, not shared with media organizations, but displayed on the public screen that the members of the press and public can see.

Speaker 2 I actually have a sick feeling.

Speaker 2 The RMT members and I were talking about it. There were some members of the public in the line outside the courthouse where it felt like they came specifically in hopes of seeing something.

Speaker 2 That was like the kind of conversations we heard overheard some. It was just really gross.

Speaker 2 There was one representative that I believe was a spokesperson for major media outlets that stated it should be viewable in open court.

Speaker 2 stating that the evidence should not be sealed or that they should pool certain reporters, some members of the press, like vetted members, some representatives that can see the videos so that they can present a description to them to the public.

Speaker 2 The argument being that these videos must have some persuasive and evidentiary value that the public should have the right to know about.

Speaker 2 Now, as a certified member of the press since two full minutes ago, I think these people are insane. I'm sorry, that's crazy to me.

Speaker 2 The fact that these like major publications are arguing that through a spokesperson, I get that justice needs to be served and the argument being that it probably has some evidentiary value.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but also just like, No.

Speaker 2 Cassie is already explaining and giving descriptions.

Speaker 2 I don't know why providing pictures to any members of any select group of press, no matter how reputable the publisher, the network, it just feels unnecessarily cruel for the sake of, quote, journalism.

Speaker 2 The spokesperson argues, the New York Times and the Wash Post and the Wall Street Journal are not interested in reporting anything salacious.

Speaker 2 They want to be able, however, to report that this was shown to the jury and here in a very discreet and appropriate and mature way is what they show.

Speaker 2 There's no different than any other trial, Your Honor. So we do strongly, strongly object to the total sealing of the exhibits.
We think they should be shown to the press and the public.

Speaker 2 We're not asking for copies. We do understand the serious privacy concerns.

Speaker 2 We ask the court to try and craft something that not only has the privacy concerns considered, but the very strong First Amendment access right considered as well.

Speaker 2 To which the prosecutor Comey, she later states to the judge, the core of the objection is that this was blackmail material that was used to victimize these women, used to convince them to do more or coerce them to do more of these acts, and showing them to anyone more than absolutely necessary would feed into that victimization, would re-victimize them, and would unnecessarily humiliate them.

Speaker 2 We have now heard vivid testimonies about how humiliating one victim found all these incidents to be.

Speaker 2 And in our view, in our victim's counsel's view, it is absolutely unnecessary and unwarranted to show them to anyone outside of the jury and the parties. Which the judge thankfully agrees.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know why that like really irked me. I was like fuming in the courtroom.
I was like, I know I'm not supposed to make reactions, but I want to stand up.

Speaker 2 Which, okay, during another break without the presence of the jurors or Cassie, the judge asks Esteveo how much longer she needs.

Speaker 2 Mark Agnifilo stands up and he says, I was told that I would be the one to fall on the sword. I think that's my role at this trial.
I think we're definitely going to finish this week.

Speaker 2 I think it's going to be all day tomorrow. We're going to do everything that we can.

Speaker 2 The judge is not happy because for months they have been talking about how Cassie needs to be off the stand by the end of the week. Finish, cross, redirect everything by Friday.
No questions asked.

Speaker 2 You recognize that as the exact opposite of what I was told yesterday in this courtroom?

Speaker 3 Does he sound upset about this?

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's not like, he's like, you do recognize that this is the exact opposite of what I told you in this courtroom. Like what I was told yesterday in this courtroom.

Speaker 2 And he's looking at them like, explain yourself right now.

Speaker 3 So they're saying we need more time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and Mark is like, yes, that's why there's a sword. that I must fall on.
It's a lot of material to go through. It's the most important witness in this case.

Speaker 2 We're trying to do it very very quickly. The judge is like, this was the subject of discussion for, I don't even think it's weeks.

Speaker 2 I think it's months that this witness needed to be off the stand by the end of the week. So what happened? I never understood that.
I understood.

Speaker 2 The government asks, our direct took less than two days, probably a day and a half, and we would ask that the court exercise its discretion under Rule 611, aka avoid wasting time and make procedures effective for determining the truth.

Speaker 2 Under Rule 611, to limit the cross-examination to the length of the direct.

Speaker 2 Mark says, one thing I want to point out is the government chose to call two witnesses before this witness, which took up a great deal of time.

Speaker 2 So I don't know that this artificial deadline of the end-of-the-week end-of-day Friday should be held against us. They chose not to call her first.
That wasn't our choice.

Speaker 2 So we are going to do everything we can, but it's a critically important witness. Prosecutor Komik pops up.

Speaker 2 As he knows, and as we told defense counsel, the first two witnesses had scheduling issues and we're not going to be able available to testify otherwise. The judge is not moved by the defense.

Speaker 2 It was the understanding of everyone that this witness would be off the stand by the end of the week. Direct took a day and a half, so the defense will have a day and a half.
He also notes, Ms.

Speaker 2 Esteveo, you have a witness who is being responsive to your questions, the questions you're asking. This is not the kind of witness that is fighting you on every single question that you're asking.

Speaker 2 Mark Agnifilo says,

Speaker 2 now it's starting to feel a little strategic on the government's part to kind of pen us in to only having a day and a half or two days for cross.

Speaker 2 It's not uncommon for cross to be three, four hours longer or shorter than one estimates.

Speaker 2 The judge snaps a bit in what universe did you not understand that this was important given that it was in the numerous filings and discussed amongst the parties several times

Speaker 2 when was this taking place uh in the middle like the the jurors and the witness would be gone and just like in open court they have these discussions so it's like a midday break type of thing yeah they'll have like a few breaks and then they'll have lunch but then even for lunch they'll send the jury they'll send the witness out and then they'll continue talking you know and then afterwards they have a few more breaks yeah Wasn't there like speculations on why they're doing this?

Speaker 3 Like, delay this cross because Cassie is extremely pregnant? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. So there's like a lot of speculations that the defense is pulling out some really dirty cards.

Speaker 2 There were speculations that they were trying to delay the beginning of the trial so that Cassie wouldn't be pregnant during her testifying, which was later semi-confirmed to some netizens with the defense trying to argue that they didn't want Cassie to walk in front of the jurors pregnant.

Speaker 2 So there's like a lot of reasons, but you know, it's very interesting because the judge, like I said, what I've heard about the judge is that he's so fair.

Speaker 2 One attorney that I did unrelated to this case, I heard in the hallways, they said, that judge is sharp. He's too sharp.
Personally, I like my judges a little dumb. Like this judge is very sharp.

Speaker 2 So there's that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, Mark Agnifilo continues. This is a critical witness in a case that involves a life sentence.
So the schedule is important, but Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs' right to cross-examine this witness fully and fairly is quite important. Thankfully, the defense does start speeding things up and Cassie is off the stand by Friday, but it's very interesting.

Speaker 2 The judge even says, I thought it was pretty clear that if issues are to be raised before the jury comes in, they need to be raised with the court in advance, and I've been very lenient.

Speaker 2 There have been letters that have come in at 3 a.m. I've come in early so I can make sure that I have a handle on the issues before we get here because the jury has been so prompt.

Speaker 2 Even later or earlier in that day, when the jurors come in for the first time in the morning, he apologizes every time. Welcome back, members of the jury.
I'm only five minutes late today.

Speaker 2 His like tone of voice, he's so compassionate with jurors and witnesses. You were here early, as usual, so I apologize for our lateness, but we are making a couple minutes of progress.

Speaker 2 We will keep working on it on our end. Like just so nice.

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Speaker 2 During the direct, so this is with the prosecutors, Cassie explains that she had started freaking out at one moment in the timeline because she was texting Sean, I need you to call me ASAP.

Speaker 2 Sean's responding, I called pick up, when did he say he saw it? How long ago? Ask him, what did the room look like, etc. Girl, you need to act like you need to get this info.

Speaker 2 So Cassie's explaining, I was in Atlantic City hosting a party with new management company.

Speaker 2 While we were out, somebody that I was working with mentioned that they had seen a sexually explicit video of me, and immediately my thoughts went to a freak-off video, so I reached out to Sean.

Speaker 2 Combs is texting her. You got to tell him this is your life and this is serious.
Ask him, who kid bring it up? So that's a DJ. Did he say, hey, look, I got this video with Cassie?

Speaker 2 The natural question Soojin would have asked is, how did he get the footage and what is he planning on doing with it? You got to tell him this is your life and this is serious.

Speaker 3 Wait, so Cassie called Sean saying that, hey, somebody mentioned a tape. Yes.
Sean was like, call him, ask him, this is my life. Do something right now.

Speaker 2 But like he's saying, you tell him this is your life. Like you got to do something about this.
But he's like putting pressure on her for sure. Now, Estaveo brings that moment back up.

Speaker 2 You said on your direct that you had learned from Soojin that there was potentially a recording of you out there, right? Yes. Soojin.
is part of the new management company. Oh, okay.
I think, yeah.

Speaker 2 And you were concerned about it because you thought it may have been one of the the free cop videos. Correct.
And you at some point were with Soojin and you asked him about the video, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 And you suggested on your direct that Mr. Combs was encouraging you to get to the bottom of it with Soojin, correct? Yes.

Speaker 2 Which later it's revealed that Cassie even asked Sean if they should take Soojin hostage.

Speaker 2 They play an audio clip, a recording that Cassie took herself. A lot of people were shocked by the audio clip.

Speaker 2 I think in the courtroom, there was definitely a heavier impact because you know when you're sitting there all day just listening and then you see like some random bubbles of text messages here and there and it's like seven hours in and then all of a sudden you hear an audio clip it's going to be a lot more memorable.

Speaker 2 It's going to feel like a lot heavier of an emphasis because it's like, whoa, what's happening right now? But can you set the scene for us in terms of what's going on in this audio recording?

Speaker 2 Where are you? I believe we're in Atlantic City. I just hosted a set of parties the night before.
And you reviewed this audio recording this morning before taking the stand. I did, yes.

Speaker 2 In the recording, you hear Sujin asking Cassie to come to one of his events. He offers to pay her.
Cassie says, you don't have to pay me for me to come.

Speaker 2 What I need to talk to you about is the video of me. Sujin reveals that he has it.
And Cassie sounds genuinely heartbroken. She says, you have it?

Speaker 2 Why wouldn't you show me? And then she's like, I would have shown you if I had a video of you. Wait, what do you mean you have it?

Speaker 2 He's, okay, to me, it sounds like he's either drunk or high. He's not cooperating.
He's just like, ha ha ha.

Speaker 2 Like, honestly, it was frustrating to hear because it's like, and she sounds like she's getting progressively more anxious. She sounds heart, hurt, heartbroken.
Like, what do you mean you have it?

Speaker 2 And then now you're not showing me. And then he's just like, ha ha, yeah, because I never want to see it again.
And she's like, no, you have to show me. And he's like, no.

Speaker 2 Later, she expresses, no, I will kill you. I will cut you.
I will bury you in the fucking dirt. I will kill you.
And he kill you again.

Speaker 2 And I'm going to kill you because you're fucking with me in my life right now. I'm going to fuck you.
And it's not, I'm going to kill you. And it's not going to be me.

Speaker 2 There's not going to be blood on my hands.

Speaker 3 Wait, she said it in that tone?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It was not. I see some people describing it as menacing in a tone that we've never heard Cassie before.
I don't necessarily think so. It was not like this dark, sinister, hey, look at me.

Speaker 2 I'm going to fucking kill you.

Speaker 3 But no, but the thing is that it's not like she's trying to kill kill him.

Speaker 3 Like, she's saying that, hey, give me... Like, he has this material of hers, like, blackmail material.

Speaker 2 No, but he won't. It's not even that he won't give it to her.

Speaker 2 It's like she's talking to a wall. Like, they're not communicating.
Like, he's not, he's like, I have it. Nah, da, da, da.

Speaker 2 Like, it's like, imagine you're talking to someone, the world is about to blow up, and they're like, hi.

Speaker 2 She's just like, I'm going to fucking kill you. Like, I'm going to kill you.
I'm going to bury you. That's her tone.

Speaker 2 That's the tone that she uses.

Speaker 2 A lot of people went online to describe it as menacing, as a voice we've never heard before.

Speaker 2 I think it was shocking in the moment. There was impact.
I just felt it was a very desperate response considering the circumstances. I think it was one of those moments where it's like, okay.

Speaker 2 God forbid a woman try to protect herself from having explicit videos of her circulating. Like, it just was kind of like, wait, what do you want women to do?

Speaker 2 You just want us to like lay down and get shot and take it?

Speaker 3 I'm so confused. I'm like, nicely, politely asked, can you please show me this video, please?

Speaker 2 Could I pretty please have it? And if you don't say yes, I'll just go back and cry in the corner. Like, it was just weird.
I don't think anything she said was particularly vile or scary.

Speaker 2 Like, she didn't, I want to say she didn't even know.

Speaker 3 Context and like situational awareness.

Speaker 2 Like, if people were in that situation, I think people would have said bigger things, worse things.

Speaker 2 But they try to use this to ask Cassie and try to establish the idea that Combs also didn't want the freak off videos leaked as much as Cassie did. Have you ever witnessed Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs expressing concern about these videos being released? Yes. And Mr.
Combs always supported you in not wanting these videos to come out and prevented these videos from coming out. Yes.

Speaker 2 And but this is the part where they confirm there was an escort that you met named Mr. Jonathan Odie a few times, right? Yeah.
Do you know who I'm referring to? Yeah.

Speaker 2 At some point you understood that he'd taken a video, a secret video of you and Mr. Combs that he had at a freak off, right? I thought he did, yeah.

Speaker 2 When you found out about that, you spent some amount of time, several months, trying to make sure that it went away, right? I did not. Mr.
Combs did. Yeah.
You understood that Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs spent a great deal of time and money to make sure that video went away, right? I didn't know any of the details.

Speaker 2 Were you aware that he spent a significant amount of money to make sure that that video did not get released?

Speaker 2 Because remember, there is an agreement circulating that Jonathan Odie received $5 million in exchange for signing an NDA. Cassie says, no.
So she was not aware.

Speaker 2 And you were very concerned about the situation with Mr. Odie, right? Yeah.
He seemed like a volatile personality, right? I don't know about volatile. I just didn't trust it.

Speaker 2 He was threatening to release a sex video of you, right? I don't know that he actually did that. I don't, I'm sorry.
You don't know if he threatened to release the video? I don't remember.

Speaker 2 You just remember learning that he had a video. I was in the room with him and I saw the phone up and so I told Sean about it right after.
Mr. Combs is a celebrity as we've already established, right?

Speaker 2 Yes. And these would have been embarrassing to him and had they been released, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 In another text message, the defense shows Cassie texting Combs, you're whack for lying to me about bitches coming to the house. I tried to just leave it, but you're fucking with me now.

Speaker 2 You aren't here and all you've done is stress my nerves. You're really bringing up Soojin.
You're crazy. He's a grown man.
I was trying to keep it cool. He hit me when I got home that he fell asleep.

Speaker 2 I don't know what you want to do anymore. I want to do whatever I can, but you just keep putting me down.
I'm over here dealing with this on my own.

Speaker 2 I really hope you didn't get drunk and embarrass me, but I'm sure you did. Always great to hear bitches telling me shit I don't want to hear or know.

Speaker 2 So Cassie sent this text message to Sean Combs a few days after the Sujit incident. Again, I'm not really sure why the defense brought it up.

Speaker 2 Because I'm like, if anything, it just showed Cassie saying like, I'm dealing with this all on my own.

Speaker 2 Adding to probably her feelings of desperation, adding to the fact that, yeah, she did, with words, threaten to kill someone, but it means situational awareness having some context this text message just kind of bolsters yeah and again like the the attorney was saying that it would be embarrassing for sean combs to have this video out meanwhile he didn't do anything about this he's like partying yeah versus cassie is the one like desperately trying to do something about it yeah so i'm not entirely like i think there was a point they were trying to make but clearly it didn't get made well enough i i'm sure they asked a few questions afterwards about that text message, but like the point did not point.

Speaker 2 One text message thread from June 2017 reads from Cassie to Combs. The game starts at 10 p.m., no texting after this.

Speaker 2 Create a character that you will be that is nothing like who you really are, and so will I. Different name, different occupation, different style of dress, different background story.

Speaker 2 We cannot break character until 8 a.m. When you see me, I am no one you have ever met before.
I'm not Cassie, and you're not Sean, Puff, Diddy, Mr. C, etc.
LOL.

Speaker 2 Example, pilot, doctor, author, professor, or whatever you decide. We do not know each other, then it goes on with this game.

Speaker 2 So the whole purpose of this game, Cassie explains, is that she just wanted to rekindle the romance. I think the defense is trying to establish.

Speaker 2 They're trying to say that maybe this is her proposing something else to rekindle their relationship, and it seems like they're trying to connect it with freak offs as like they're a very experimental couple.

Speaker 2 is I think the vibe that they're trying to set. There's another text message thread that's entered into evidence from 2012.
Sean Sean texts Cassie, what do you want to do tonight?

Speaker 2 I don't know, what are the options? Am I meeting you in the Hamptons or will we be in the city? In city, whatever your heart desires. Well, I get in kind of late.
We can just go to bed.

Speaker 2 You'll probably be tired. I doubt that.
I'm going to sleep on the plane, lol.

Speaker 2 So what do you want to do, woman? And no, I'm not asking you to FO. I want to know what you want to do.
Get something to eat, smoke, take a walk. He says that there's a party tonight.

Speaker 2 I'm horny as fuck also, but the way and please sleep on the plane, smiley face, and it looks like I have off tomorrow and I need some valium which there's a pack in my top drawer she doesn't respond he texts hello this part I think it's intriguing Cassie likes to eat smoke take a walk I feel like Sean is always texting her that he's horny yeah like all the text messages I feel like there I have not seen many text messages where there's a lot of depth in their conversations or at least both ways She tells him where the pills are and she just briefly says, let's go out and have some carefree fun.

Speaker 2 We will play it by ear. When are you on your period? What's What's carefree fun? I'm skipping it, just taking it as it comes.
Are you on it now? No. Good.
Are you horny? Yes. How horny?

Speaker 2 What you be thinking about when you're horny? Cassie responds, I think about the way you're on top of me and the way you look at me and talk to me like that.

Speaker 2 I love looking up at you and hearing you moan. He responds, you like it when I moan.
I'm a moan more for you, just for you. I love it, Eloelle.
That's what I really think about.

Speaker 2 I love the way you talk to me when you're on top. She does not mention, I love jumping into a gallon of baby oil in hotel rooms with strangers.
She mentions her relationship with Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs, which she, again, said in the direct. One of my favorite times is when we FO'd and then we made love after.

Speaker 2 I also liked it when we made love before and then, you know, was just in the next room. Then he came in and I blindfolded you.
She responds, yeah, I liked those times.

Speaker 2 I love it when we make love after. The last time was so good.

Speaker 2 I get the point that the defense is trying to make, but also I don't get the point that the defense is trying to make with these specific text messages.

Speaker 2 He even texts Cassie, so what do you want to do, woman? I'm not asking you to FO. Again, it sounds like he knows that anytime he asks, maybe she has like a, I don't really want to type of reaction.

Speaker 2 But the defense focuses on skipping the period. You tell him that you're skipping your period, right? Yes.
And you're telling him that so you can plan a freak off, right?

Speaker 2 I don't know exactly what I was thinking then, but probably, yeah.

Speaker 2 Later messages show Sean asking Cassie, I want you to tell me a new fantasy of how you want it next time. Would Dave turn you on? I don't know.
I haven't even had time to think about it.

Speaker 2 I've been trying to think about you with a girl to get into that, and I think I'm starting to fantasize about that.

Speaker 2 Which again, just I think they're trying to prove that she's very promiscuous and loves these fantasies, but it was just kind of depressing. Like she's saying, I'm trying to get into that.

Speaker 2 I think I'm starting to fantasize about that. In another thread that was entered in as a defense exhibit, so the defense is like, yeah, this one.
Cassie text Combs, how's the party?

Speaker 2 I'm horny and bored. I tip the cleaning ladies.
Hope you don't mind. Hello? I need your D.
Dying. I feel like I'm trapped.
Esteveo asks her, this was after a freak off.

Speaker 2 And when we go to the next page at the bottom, you say, I love you, had so much fun with you, I'm so happy, thank you.

Speaker 2 In another message from much later, so in 2017, Cassie texts Combs, please don't play victim if you can. Go to our last messages.
And then you say, that's all you wanted, and that's why I was upset.

Speaker 2 I love our FOs. We both want it.
Esteveo asks Cassie, and that's how you felt at the time, that you loved freak offs when you were both into it, correct?

Speaker 2 I would say that loving freak offs were just words at this point. Well, those were words that you said said to Mr.
Combs, correct? Those are texts, yes. In this text message, Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs says to you, I want to freak off right now. How do you respond? LOL, me too.
Well, I want to have fun with you. That's you telling Mr.
Combs that you want to have a freak off right now, correct?

Speaker 2 That is me agreeing to it in the first message, and the second one is me establishing I want to have fun with him. Mr.
Combs texts you, let me know if you want to have a light night.

Speaker 2 Jules is available, FYI. Jules is an escort.
If not into that, no problem. We can just do our own thing, me and you, just want to know for hotel purposes, love you.

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, love you, which I guess the point that Esteveo is trying to make here is that Cassie had a choice to the freak offs because she asks her, by him saying Jules is available, that suggests to you that he wants to have a freak off, correct?

Speaker 2 Correct. And he says, if you're not into that, no problem.
That's what it says, yeah. And that was an invitation for you to respond, yes or no, right? I suppose so.

Speaker 2 And the response you gave was, love you, right? Right, there was no yes or no. They read more of of the messages, comb texts, you didn't give me an answer.

Speaker 2 In response, Cassie says, I love you, pop, pop. In another thread, they bring up a text message from Sean.
I want us to have one of our nights. I found this new store.
Dope.

Speaker 2 We'll drink a lot of water. Don't overdo, but have us some freaky fun.
Do I have your permission to set up? Cassie responds, yeah, but I'm ovulating.

Speaker 2 This part, it feels like, I don't know, some netizens felt like it kind of proves Cassie is always trying to avoid freak-offs.

Speaker 2 He responds to her ovulation comment with, that's good, we'll be extra careful and anyone else. If you're not super horny, WTF.
Horny? Of course I am.

Speaker 2 Then in another message, Comb says, same fucking page, let's get some outfits, shoes, go to sex club, maybe a sex club with your wig. Cassie responds, okay.

Speaker 2 We share about tonight because I'm making plans, so I need to know, no stress. Which, yes, the words on the tag sound like, yeah, just let me know.

Speaker 2 But I guess Cassie is saying, like, it wasn't like that. She testified in the direct that she hated the sex clubs and he says, you sure? I need to know, no stress.

Speaker 2 He texts, didn't hear from you, so just put some plans in motion. If you're not sure, please let me stop.
Surprise package coming out of state.

Speaker 2 Just let me know if I'm headed in the wrong direction so I can cancel. She responds, I told you I was getting my lashes and brows done at 8.
I just finished. Cool.
Read and answer my text.

Speaker 2 The defense opening statement, Tenny Garrigos, brings up that Combs did indeed have a bad temper that was, quote, when he drank or did the wrong drugs, he got violent.

Speaker 2 AKA violent because mainly of the amount of substance abuse.

Speaker 2 She continues, Combs' violent outbursts, often fueled by alcohol, jealousy, and drugs, might have warranted domestic violence charges, but not sex trafficking and racketeering counts.

Speaker 2 With Esteveo repeating questions and circling back and bringing more questions about drugs, you would say that he was an addict, right? What substances was he addicted to?

Speaker 2 There were points in your relationship when he was heavily dependent on opiates, right?

Speaker 2 To which, yes, I think Cassie's attorney should have and did prep Cassie on how to respond to the questions in the honest way. But I do think that she's like fed up.
Cassie's not having it.

Speaker 2 There were points in your relationship when he was heavily dependent on opioids, right? We both were. There were points.
You said that when he's taking drugs, he's not doing well.

Speaker 2 Is that what you said? I was saying from my perspective, like my mind, if I'm taking drugs, I'm not doing well. Like I'm just trying to follow you right now, your questions.
My question is confusing.

Speaker 2 That's okay. When Mr.
Combs was using more drugs, was his mood worse? I can't specify. There was a lot of drug use.
You witnessed a lot of drug use by Mr. Combs, right? We both participated, yes.

Speaker 2 You said before that you witnessed him withdraw from opioids, right? Based on those experiences, how did his mood change during the withdrawal? I haven't thought about it in a while.

Speaker 2 I'm also not a doctor. Your serotonin levels are definitely messed up after you party and take certain pills.
So coming off of them, yeah, you'd be pretty irritated.

Speaker 2 And part of the appeal of freak-offs was going to be doing drugs, right? Part of it at the time, there are different reasons for me.

Speaker 2 The freak-offs were also a time to do drugs in a safe, confined space in a hotel room, right? Yeah. So someone like Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs, who is a celebrity and well-known, it's an opportunity for him to take drugs and experiment and not be seen by anyone, right? Yeah. And did you ever call each other high partners? We did.

Speaker 2 Now, Cassie mentions that she always felt like Combs wanted her to do drugs with him, but if she ever did drugs with anybody else, he would get explosively angry.

Speaker 2 The defense is trying to bring up that Combs tried to get Cassie off drugs. At one point, he encourages

Speaker 2 her to go to rehab. And Esteveo even asked, to your knowledge, did he tell drug dealers in the LA area or have communicated to drug dealers in the LA area that they were not to deal drugs to you?

Speaker 2 Cassie says, yes.

Speaker 2 Now, side note, in the event of trying to establish that Combs is like, I don't know, maybe this really good guy that's trying to get Cassie, his beloved girlfriend, off of drugs, to me, I'm like, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 To reach out to drug dealers and tell them specifically, do not sell drugs to my girlfriend is kind of crazy behavior. Like that is controlling behavior.

Speaker 2 So like I do feel like a lot of, and then I have seen whispers in the courtroom where it's like, it was weird because like the point proven.

Speaker 2 bypassed and then like a stronger different point was made with that one. Because it's just like that just proves how controlling he was.

Speaker 2 It doesn't come off like, oh, he's such a good, caring boyfriend, which it felt like that's what the defense was trying to do. So it was just very confusing.

Speaker 2 You previously told the government that you believed that Mr. Combs was blackout for the intercontinental event.
Isn't that right? I believe he was intoxicated, yeah.

Speaker 2 You believed he was blackout, right? Everybody's definition of blackout is different. You use the word blackout.
Sure.

Speaker 2 They bring up a text message that Cassie sends Combs after the intercontinental Hotel incident.

Speaker 2 When you get fucked up in the wrong way, you always want to show me that you have the power and you knock me around. I'm not a ragdoll, I'm someone's child.

Speaker 2 When you say, when you get fucked up in the wrong way, you meant that he took too many drugs, right? I meant that he was out of control. Because of the amount of drugs that he had taken, right?

Speaker 2 And alcohol. He often combined drugs with alcohol, right? Yes, we both did.
Do you remember when Mr. Combs overdosed in February 2012?

Speaker 2 Now, Cassie says something that has the internet kind of in a tailspin. Was that around the time Whitney Houston died? Yes.

Speaker 2 So there are speculations that there was this massive party and perhaps they all used the same like Hollywood drug dealers and there's just some connections there.

Speaker 2 I don't want to get too deep into it without perhaps it becoming more pertinent to the case, but um

Speaker 2 he had apparently overdosed and he went to a hospital. Other points argued by Esteveo include asking, he was suggesting going to marriage counseling, couples counseling, correct?

Speaker 2 Maybe I don't remember. Shortly after you started dating your now husband, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 It just seems like they're trying to prove that Combs tried to make the relationship work, and a major point of contention for the defense is the R-word allegation from August of 2018, with Esteveo asking, do you recall meeting with agents and prosecutors on November 30th, 2023?

Speaker 2 I could have. I don't remember the exact date.
This would be the meeting shortly after the lawsuit that you filed. Do you recall that meeting? Yes.

Speaker 2 Is your testimony that you you told the government that he was acting strangely at the dinner? I don't really remember that word. I don't remember that word.
That's okay.

Speaker 2 In fact, do you remember that you told them that he seemed anxious? I don't remember saying that.

Speaker 2 They pull up the original government report that we do not get to see, but Esteveo says, does this refresh your recollection as to whether or not you told the government agents that Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs was acting anxious and strangely that evening? It does, sort of. And you told them that you thought this behavior might be attributed to his bipolar disorder, right?

Speaker 2 You told prosecutors that you did not think that Mr. Combs was in his right mind because you didn't respond when you told him to stop.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 Then they bring up a message that Combs sent to Cassie, which is August 21st, 2018, that reads, from Cassie to Combs, hit me when you can, heart emoji. And then he responds, I know I look bad to you.

Speaker 2 I could tell I didn't turn you on yesterday. I fell off, but I'm about to get my shit together.

Speaker 2 Esteveo states that in the April 2025 meeting with prosecutors, Cassie told them that the alleged R-word R-word incident happened August of 2018. You saw Mr.
Combs the day before this message, right?

Speaker 2 I think so, I'm not sure. So the insinuation being that the text messages were sent around the time of the alleged R-word.

Speaker 2 They bring up other texts from September 12th, 2018, where Cassie texts him, landed safe, how's yoga treating you? I'm assuming now it's safe to date. Let me know.
Good morning. I'm confused.

Speaker 2 Safe to date? What are you talking about? Side note, it's revealed that he was having a romantic relationship with his yoga partner, allegedly, and he texts Cassie back.

Speaker 2 What does yoga have to do with me? Hit me back, please, babe. Nothing.
I hear you're dating. I didn't know.
I'm on the beach walking with my dad right now. I'm not dating.
Dating who? I'm not dating.

Speaker 2 Baby, I'm not dating lol and no dates, no dinners, nothing, nobody. Kay.
Who do you think I'm dating? I don't think I should even be bringing this up to you. Let's just leave it alone, all right?

Speaker 2 I actually need to stop even caring. Do you want to start dating? If you want, if you are, let's just talk about it.

Speaker 2 Estaveo tries to establish to the jury that Sean was open to Cassie moving on and wanted to have a conversation if she was ready to date.

Speaker 2 At the end of the last week, at the end of the page, you wrote, if you're in LA next week, maybe we can talk. I'm just trying to take care of myself now.
So Esteve was confirming with Miss Ventura.

Speaker 2 Then another text message from September 26, 2018. So this would be a month after the alleged R-word.
I don't want to have a conversation where you break up with me again. This is Sean to Cassie.

Speaker 2 I need you to love me. I need to love you.
I do love you. I would just prefer not being one of your girlfriends anymore.
I need to hold you. Let's get up tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 I'll do studio from like 6.30 until 9, 9.30. Can I hold you or are you just going to break up with me some more? We already did that.
Is that a yes? Can I hold you? We can embrace, lol.

Speaker 2 LOL, good to know that you still have a sense of humor. I can't wait to see you, Cassie.
I can't wait to see you too.

Speaker 1 Yay.

Speaker 2 I wasn't trying to upset you. I promise I'm not being mean.
I'm embracing my sanity. People have access and just showing up to the house really has me fucked up, had me fucked up.

Speaker 2 We don't even have to talk about it. That's just not what I need right now.
Right? If I can't know where you live, that's too far for me.

Speaker 2 If you want to be away from me like that, we don't have to deal with each other on any level. That's too far for me.
Live your life, whatever you need, will be done as promised. That's too far.

Speaker 2 I don't know what to say. I'm choosing my sanity over everything.
Today would be the first time we're seeing each other in person in a long time. I'm so peaceful right now.
I want to keep it.

Speaker 2 I'm finally sleeping well and gained weight. I don't think you understand how those two small things have made the hugest difference.
Esteveo looks at Cassie.

Speaker 2 And you don't say anything to the effect effect of, the last time we saw each other, you raped me, right?

Speaker 2 Right. In fact, you're saying that you want to keep the peace, right? Yep.
And he responds, I respect your sanity. It's best we keep it moving.
I'm not a stalker, no beef. I'm clearer than ever.

Speaker 2 I don't want to link. Focus on you and your sanity.
I'm good. Love.

Speaker 2 Combs is like reading the messages so intently, like he's never seen this before. I'm like, sir, you sent these.

Speaker 2 Like he's like really reading it. Like he looks like, he looks like he's about to kiss the evidence screen.
So this is clearly a very very important moment.

Speaker 2 And you said you were really looking forward to that hug, but okay, right?

Speaker 2 Right. And you wanted to hug him at that point, right?

Speaker 2 Yep.

Speaker 2 So the defense argues that September 27, 2018, Cassie sees Combs and we don't know what they showed to refresh Cassie's recollection, but Esteveo says, and when you saw him that night, did you have sexual activity with him?

Speaker 2 I did. So Cassie did mention during her direct that she was R-worded August and then she did have another encounter with him where she did consent.

Speaker 2 And that night when you were having intercourse with him, did you receive a FaceTime call? I did. And did you answer that call? No.
Did you recognize the caller ID to be your now husband?

Speaker 2 So at this point, she and Alex Pine were dating. I did.
And Mr. Combs noticed this call, right? Yep.
And he noticed the name that was, or the alias that was popping up on your phone, right? Yep.

Speaker 2 And this was in the middle of your evening with Mr. Combs.
Correct. During which you were having intercourse, right? Yeah.
Was it actually in the middle of intercourse that you received this call?

Speaker 2 We were together. I don't know if it was actually in the middle of intercourse that I received the call.
And your now husband didn't know that you were with Mr. Combs at the time, correct?

Speaker 2 I don't know what he knew at that point. I don't know.
You were seeing him at the time, right? Yes. At the time that you had this evening with Mr.
Combs? Yes.

Speaker 2 After this incident, your now husband learned about your evening with Mr. Combs, right? At a point, but I don't know.
You didn't didn't answer his FaceTime call that evening, right? I did not.

Speaker 2 Did he find out after that evening that you didn't answer his FaceTime call because you were with Mr. Combs? Objection!

Speaker 2 You told your now husband that Mr. Combs R-worded you, didn't you? I did.
That evening, right?

Speaker 2 That evening. In September? No, that wasn't the evening when I was R-worded.
Your husband punched a wall at a certain point, right?

Speaker 2 He did. When he learned that you were still having intercourse with Mr.
Combs, right? When you informed him that Mr. Combs R-worded you, correct? Yes, I think.
I don't remember exactly when that was.

Speaker 2 Your husband learned of your sexual intercourse with Mr. Combs, right? Right.
And you told him that Mr. Combs R-worded you, right?

Speaker 2 Right. And when your husband learned about it, he punched a wall, right?

Speaker 2 I believe so. The point I think that the defense is trying to establish, whether you agree with it or not,

Speaker 2 their defense is that

Speaker 2 she was seeing Alex Fine she was dating him and then she had this evening with Sean Combs in September of 2018 Alex Fine FaceTimed her clearly he's finding out that maybe she's not where she said she was going to be or something of that sort She goes back to him and he's trying to ask her like where were you and they're almost insinuating that she comes up with this R-word story

Speaker 2 in that moment to kind of

Speaker 2 de-escalate perhaps a big relationship fight with this new boyfriend of hers

Speaker 2 is kind of what they're insinuating with this line of questioning. Or at least that's what we got from it.

Speaker 2 Esteveo brings up other text messages from October 5th, 2018. So now this is two months after the alleged R-word.
Combs texts, I'm going to just fall back. You call me when you need me.

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, to be honest, I'm not sure how to even handle things to get my life to a comfortable place. I know that you don't want to hurt me anymore.
I miss you. I feel so lost without you.

Speaker 2 I'm heartbroken. I don't trust anymore.
I'm sad. You don't see him for a number of weeks, correct? A month after this is November 15th, 2018, Kim Porter passes away unexpectedly.
Isn't that right?

Speaker 2 Yes, it is. And you went to a memorial service for Ms.
Porter, correct? Another message is entered into evidence sent from Cassie to Combs on November 19th, 2018, after Kim Porter's memorial service.

Speaker 2 I didn't just leave you. I said goodbye a few times.
I want to be there for you, but needed to get to grandma. My flight was delayed, so I'm taking off now.
I need to be real with you.

Speaker 2 I know how crazy and painful this all is. And you want my support, but you've compared me to Gina the other day and the babysitter, whom he's allegedly sleeping with.
at the time.

Speaker 2 And there's last night, and you posted that Kim was your soulmate. What was the 11 years all about? 11 consistent years.
I know you're going through a lot, but that hurt my feelings.

Speaker 2 I love you, but I'm going to my family right now. I'll probably make it Saturday with my dad.
I'll hit KK, Christina Coram, the chief of staff. Hit me if you need me.
Love you.

Speaker 2 So Esteveo and what they've been arguing since the defense opening statement is that Cassie did not leave Sean Combs because she realized that he was abusive and that he R-worded her.

Speaker 2 They're trying to argue that her final straw in leaving was that he called Kim Porter his soulmate online. He let you go, right? You never saw him again after that, right? I didn't see him again.

Speaker 2 I don't know about letting me go. That's different.
You never saw him again. Yeah.
And you got married? I did. To the love of your life.
Correct. And over the years, has Mr.
Combs reached out to you?

Speaker 2 Yes. So they start reading text messages from Combs to Cassie.
Checking on you, seeing how you're doing, hope you're well. Sending you love and light, hope you're well.
Congratulations, Cass.

Speaker 2 I'm truly happy for you. You're going to make a beautiful mother.
God bless. This one, Cassie does respond.
Thank you. God bless.
Sending you love and light. Hope all is well.

Speaker 2 I had a dream about you last night, shaking my head. What a difference a year makes.
Really happy for you. Have a blessed day.

Speaker 2 just sending love later he sends another one congratulations I'm really happy for you I know you're so happy you deserve it love then March 2020 he texts miss my best friend hope you are well Frankie is so beautiful love

Speaker 2 miss you too and thank you hope you're taking care of yourself and the family as well Thank you so much for responding. It really means a lot more than you know.
I'm so happy for you.

Speaker 2 The kids are good. Mom is good.
I hope your family is well also. I miss you guys, sending you nothing but love and light always.
Please know I'm always here if you need me.

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, I've been reflecting a lot, like a lot. The turns of life are so crazy, but I'm happy everyone is good.
Please send my love to them, and if I can express anything, take care of you.

Speaker 2 I'm trying, just had another operation. This is going to be my last.
LOL. Not entirely sure what that is referring to.
Shit has definitely been rough without your friendship.

Speaker 2 I pray for a day that I can sit down with you and let you know all the things I've reflected on. You were there for me throughout everything.
You were my ride or die.

Speaker 2 I've got nothing but love for you always. My heart is filled with joy to know that you don't hate me.
and I hope you're taking care of you also.

Speaker 2 I thank God for the time that we had together, and you're one of the greatest women in the world. Don't ever forget that love.

Speaker 2 Sorry, I needed a second to gather my thoughts. The things you said blew my mind a bit.
First, I don't hate you. I never have.

Speaker 2 I wouldn't be at this beautiful point in my life without having been with you. I definitely think of the day to sit down and just talk because I know that we need closure, understanding.

Speaker 2 What do you mean when you said, Esteve was asking Cassie, what do you mean when you said the things he said blew your mind a bit?

Speaker 2 I think those were honestly probably all the things I wanted to hear for a long time that I never did, just being recognized as the greatest woman in the world, right?

Speaker 2 Not that part, just the message in general was, it was nice. And it was what you had been craving for a long time to hear from him, right? Before this, I don't think I was craving it then.

Speaker 2 You wanted a relationship previously. Yeah, in the relationship, I was craving it.
Because he shaped you in many ways after 11 years, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, that's fair. Can you go to the bottom message, please? Mr.
Combs says, Tears of joy. I don't even know what to say, but I'll always love you.
And one day I hope you can forgive me.

Speaker 2 I pray for the day we can have closure, but most important, talk. We're honestly lucky to be alive.
We went hard. God was really watching over us.
You deserve the world.

Speaker 2 I'm happy you found someone that loves you the way you deserve to be loved and respected. Please let me know when is a good time to get together and I'll make myself available.

Speaker 2 Tell moms and pops I said hi. Please know I send this message with all respect for your marriage.
Be well and never forget who you are. Love.

Speaker 2 She responds, we are honestly lucky to be alive. The defense tries to point out the timeline of the lawsuit.

Speaker 2 They state that it was filed November 2023, the month before Cassie and her husband moved into her parents' house in Connecticut with their kids.

Speaker 2 You moved into your parents' house in Connecticut because of financial issues, is that right? No, we were just moving to the East Coast and transitioning in my parents' home.

Speaker 2 Your husband is a physical trainer, is that right? He was at the time? He was.

Speaker 2 And your financial situation in October of 2023 was limited to the income your husband has as a physical trainer and whatever income you were able to make at the time, correct? Correct.

Speaker 2 Esteveo goes on to ask if you could categorize her parents' house as modest compared to the mansion seen in the government exhibits, which is like a crazy statement.

Speaker 2 I assume that her parents' house is modest, but like, I think she really just wanted her to confirm it's modest.

Speaker 2 Cassie mentions that she was preparing for tour

Speaker 2 for January 2025. As soon as you agreed to settle your lawsuit against Mr.
Combs in November 2024, you canceled this tour, right? I did.

Speaker 2 As soon as you saw that you were going to get $20 million, you canceled the tour because you didn't need it anymore, right? That wasn't the reason why.

Speaker 2 There is this one part that I do think...

Speaker 2 I would imagine if I were on the jury, which I'm not, obviously, but if I were on the jury, this probably would have alienated me from the defense.

Speaker 2 She, Esteveo, brings up, and I think that from what I could hear and gather, it irked a lot of people the wrong way, this part.

Speaker 2 Esteveo says, your lawsuit in November 2023 that you testified about on direct, was that the first time that the term freak off ever became public, right? As far as you know? So far as I know, right?

Speaker 2 Besides the participants, I guess. From your perspective, what happened to Mr.
Combs' career after your lawsuit? Objection, Your Honor. Overruled.
From your perspective, what happened to Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs' career after your lawsuit?

Speaker 2 That's a lot. Fair to say that his career was ruined based on your understanding.
When your lawsuit was publicized in November 2023, you understood that his career was ruined at that point, right?

Speaker 2 I could understand that, yeah.

Speaker 2 I guess it's like, regardless of the charges that Combs is facing right now, I think that hotel video alone, I don't know if people really care for his career.

Speaker 2 Like no one cares for the longevity of his career after seeing the hotel video footage. Now, obviously, we cannot make judgment on the charges that he's on trial for right now.

Speaker 2 However, just that, people are like, why does Cassie need to care about his career after that hotel video? That hotel video alone should probably end someone's career. So they just didn't like it.

Speaker 2 A lot of people felt like it's giving, but the R-worder or the abuser is a young man with a bright future ahead of him and you ruined that, right?

Speaker 2 It's like, yeah, but what about my life? That was the feeling.

Speaker 2 They also bring up that after the Intercontinental Hotel footage aired, she points out Cassie wrote, domestic violence violence is the issue.

Speaker 2 So she released a very simple Instagram statement, remember, after that footage. And in that statement, she writes, domestic violence is the issue.
Yes, you wrote, domestic violence is the issue.

Speaker 2 There was more than that, but yeah. So the point that they're trying to make, okay, if I'm being so honest, both me and our researchers wrote, what's the point?

Speaker 2 It just felt like it might have been better if they didn't even include this because it's like, I mean, for that footage, yeah, domestic violence is a huge issue.

Speaker 2 I guess they were trying to point out, you didn't write sex trafficking is the issue. But it just felt like, uh,

Speaker 2 like it just was, I imagine if, again, we were on the jury, I would have been like, this is very alienating for me because that's crazy. Yeah.

Speaker 2 And there is this part where it's kind of confusing.

Speaker 2 Estaveo is trying to say at that point in the timeline, it's, it's unclear if she's saying at that point in the timeline or right now, but she says, and you still don't hate him now, right?

Speaker 2 And Cassie says, I don't hate him. And Combs shakes his head side to side.
In fact, you still have love for him? I have love for the past and what it was.

Speaker 2 The defense closes their cross-examination with the text message. Want to freak off one last time tonight? This is what Combs texts Cassie in 2012.
They break up in 2018.

Speaker 2 Want to freak off one last time tonight? What?

Speaker 2 You can't read?

Speaker 2 Cassie responds, I don't want to freak off for a last time. I want it to be the first time for the rest of of our lives.
Anna Esteveo says, I have no further questions. And she walks off the podium.

Speaker 2 Prosecutor Johnson does the redirect. She pulls up more messages from that exact text start in which Cassie texts later.
And you know what?

Speaker 2 Prosecutor Johnson said, I felt like this was her redemption arc because her direct, a lot of people were struggling with her direct.

Speaker 2 I heard, because I do try to listen to like what people in the public are saying about, because there's like overflow rooms.

Speaker 2 Anyway, I try to listen and see what people thought because sometimes you go online and you you have a very different reaction from a lot of people in the courtroom because you're getting snippets of headlines and random excerpts from the court day.

Speaker 2 And then the people that were actually in the courtroom, you're getting like eight hours of information. Sometimes there's a discrepancy.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people said that with Prosecutor Johnson's initial direct,

Speaker 2 it just didn't, like they felt frustrated because this is an emotional testimony. And yes, you don't want to re-traumatize the victims.

Speaker 2 But there were a lot of points where it just felt like she didn't let Cassie talk.

Speaker 2 Like she just kept moving on to the next question, next question, when the jurors are like, wait, we want to know what she would have said further.

Speaker 2 Because there'd be these moments where she's collecting her thoughts, like wiping away a tear, and then

Speaker 2 we're already moving on. When it's like, wait, I feel like she was trying to say something after that, like after she collects herself.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now this, she comes in and she seems a little bit upset about the cross, okay? Because she, a lot of jurors are furiously taking notes when Johnson comes in for the redirect.

Speaker 2 Even Combs is taking notes on his pad on his lap. Her voice feels animated compared to the past 12 hours with Anna Esteveo, which, yeah.

Speaker 2 You say,

Speaker 2 I want to see you, but I'm emotional right now. I can't do one last time.
I'd rather not at all.

Speaker 2 So that's context to the question, the text message thread that the cross just ended with. Throughout your relationship with Sean, were there periods where Sean was kind and loving? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Did those periods ever last? No. What are some of the ways Sean's mood affected you? I mean, they affected my whole life, my career, how I felt about myself, my self-worth.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 Throughout your entire 11-year relationship with Sean, who did you want to have sex with? I wanted it to be with him, just him. Was there anyone else you wanted to have intimate relations with?

Speaker 2 Not at the time. Prosecutor Johnson also shows that in one of the texts that Cassie is expressing wanting to do freak-offs, Combs had texted her, you're supposed to be seducing me all day.

Speaker 2 During freak-offs, how often was your career discussed? A lot.

Speaker 2 Why didn't you get to do many of the things you wanted to do for work? Because I had a whole other job. What was that whole other job? It's basically a sex worker.
Motion to strike?

Speaker 2 So the judge does grant the motion to strike, which means jurors should disregard the last answer, which I think is nearly impossible to do as a human, but don't get me started on that.

Speaker 2 The prosecutors also point out that in other messages, it seems like Combs requests freak offs. Meanwhile, Cassie is sending messages like, I can book a show for us to go see tomorrow night.

Speaker 2 We can be like old times and take our central park walk, smoke, drink some wine, just veg veg out. Sorry if I seem a little out of it.
They put our oldest dog to sleep today.

Speaker 2 Instead, they do a freak off.

Speaker 2 Do you have any doubt that Combs are worded you? No.

Speaker 2 And a few weeks after that, in August of 2018, did you have consensual activities with Sean? Yes. And you said the settlement was not the reason you canceled the tour.
Correct.

Speaker 2 Why did you cancel the tour? After filing my lawsuit, I was just overwhelmed and I didn't couldn't continue doing that at that point.

Speaker 2 It was quite overwhelming addressing the past in the way that I chose to. I didn't want to be away from my kids at the time.
Do you plan to file any more lawsuits? No.

Speaker 2 Do you expect to get any money out of testifying at this trial? No. How much money did Sean pay you to settle the lawsuit? $20 million.

Speaker 2 Would you give that money back if that meant you never had to have freak-offs?

Speaker 2 She starts. This is probably the most emotional part of her testimony.
I'd give that money back if it means I never had to do freak offs.

Speaker 2 If I never had to have freak-offs, I would have agency and autonomy and I wouldn't have to work so hard to get it back.

Speaker 2 And this is like, I'm not going to say names

Speaker 2 because my researchers and I saw the same thing.

Speaker 2 A member of the defense team looks over at another member of the defense team and basically rolls their eyes.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, I get it. You don't think that that happened.
You think that she consented, but it was kind of sad to see.

Speaker 2 It was just like, really, wow, what is happening right now?

Speaker 2 Combs is frozen as a statue. Do you remember when defense counsel asked you yesterday if freak offs were a special time that you cherished? Yeah.

Speaker 2 How would you describe the experience of an escort urinating in your mouth while you were on the floor? Objection?

Speaker 2 Sustained. So they got to move on.
How many times did Sean insist you have a freak off when you still had a UTI? All the time, frequently. And did Sean beat you during freak offs? Yes.

Speaker 2 Once or more than once? More than once. How did you feel during the freak offs when Sean beat you? Worthless, just like dirt, like I didn't matter to him, like I was nothing, like absolutely nothing.

Speaker 2 What concerns did you have, if any, about saying no to freak offs?

Speaker 2 I was worried for my safety, I was worried for my career, but I was also in love with him, so I worried that he wouldn't want to be with me anymore. No further questions at this time.

Speaker 2 Esteveo is back on the podium, and she proceeds to go through and readdress a lot of the things, but nothing new is said until she asks, you stated on the redirect that you did not have any additional lawsuits other than your suit against Mr.

Speaker 2 Combs, right? Right. You have recently received a settlement from the Intercontinental Hotel, didn't you? No.

Speaker 2 So at this point, I was kind of confused of like, oh, maybe Esteveo got incorrect information, right? You did not? I haven't received a settlement from the Intercontinental.

Speaker 2 Did you make a demand on the Intercontinental? I did. Did you receive anything in response to that demand? No, I haven't.
Do you anticipate receiving some settlement in that case of matter?

Speaker 2 I do. How much do you expect to receive? I don't know the exact number.
Can you provide an estimate? I think it would be 10 million, maybe?

Speaker 2 And you reached the end of the settlement discussions with the Intercontinental? I have. So you expect to receive 10 million? From the Intercontinental, yes.

Speaker 2 Then Estaveo has cassie read the same message from earlier this is going to be the last thing i ask you to read which is her saying i need to gather my thoughts this is after the breakup the things you said blew my mind a bit first i don't hate you i never have i wouldn't be at this beautiful point of my life without having been with you i definitely think of the same day to sit down and just talk because i know we need closure and understanding

Speaker 2 Okay, this is where I think there was a huge discrepancy between the internet and the courtroom. I think the internet, it, I'm like, no, it makes sense.

Speaker 2 Like, I would also sue the Intercontinental Hotel. Are you kidding? Like, your security guard came up, they took videos.
Hee hee, look at my shiny shoes. They saw me with a black eye in the hotel.

Speaker 2 Like, it's in the footage. And then one of them was allegedly paid off to delete the footage.
Yeah. I think it's so valid.
Yeah. Yeah.
Sue them for more money, right?

Speaker 2 I think though, the way it was revealed in court in the recross

Speaker 2 Like you could it was like a mic drop moment and like the energy shifted in the courtroom and it felt like something that Cassie was trying to hide even though I don't think that's the case But the way that it was brought up made it feel like that in that moment

Speaker 2 I do think that some of these big numbers also don't sit well with the jurors is just what I've noticed. You know, this is a very large amount of life-changing money.

Speaker 2 Do we think she should sue for more? Probably a good chunk of us probably think, yeah, she should sue for a lot more, right?

Speaker 2 A lot of people were upset with the prosecutors about this because why did they not address it in the direct?

Speaker 3 So you're saying, like, when this was question was dropped, the jurors had a like energy shift or had a reaction.

Speaker 2 Courtroom. Everyone, like public, press, everyone.

Speaker 2 It was like a,

Speaker 2 oh,

Speaker 2 oh, got it. Oh.

Speaker 2 but then it's like afterwards, you get out and you're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, duh, right? But in that moment, it was like,

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah, so like it almost like this, this should have been brought up way earlier.

Speaker 2 Yes, okay, so that's why a lot of people are upset. It's not the fact that she sued them and got $10 million, it's the fact that it was revealed by the defense attorneys in the recross.

Speaker 2 If Prosecutor Johnson had brought it up in the direct and Cassie had time to explain, it's so easy for people to connect the dots of like, oh yeah, duh, we saw that footage. That was crazy.

Speaker 2 But instead, the defense brought it up. They took everybody off guard.
They took Cassie off guard and it made it seem like a dirty secret, even though technically it probably is not.

Speaker 2 In the redirect, Johnson just asks if she has any more pending lawsuits and or if she's expecting any financial benefit depending on the outcome of the trial. Those are all answered no.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 Esteveo just has one last question question for her recross and it's you just reached the settlement with the Intercontinental last week right I don't know if it was last week but in the past month before your testimony today right yeah

Speaker 2 Esteveo grabs her binder and she says thank you and she walks off the podium and she looks very upset

Speaker 2 After that,

Speaker 2 the witnesses off the stand, Cassie is walked away out of the courtroom with her husband, attorneys, brother, and cousin following after her.

Speaker 2 And after that, Sean Combs does prayer hands and hugs Anna Esteveo.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so I think that there were a lot of moments where people in that courtroom, from what I could tell and from what I overheard some of the members of the public saying, they felt very frustrated with how the direct occurred with Cassie.

Speaker 2 They felt like it just did not do her justice.

Speaker 2 And then with the cross, the revealing of certain information just really didn't do her justice. And she didn't have that time to explain in the direct.

Speaker 2 And a lot of people felt like it's not like the direct was short. Some jurors were seen allegedly falling asleep.

Speaker 2 We think they looked like they were very sleepy and very zoned out and not engaged during the direct.

Speaker 2 So there's clearly very slow moments where we just kept circling back, we kept rambling about things.

Speaker 2 And we, I maybe legally, it's like they're establishing the foundation, but it just, as someone who probably resonates with a juror, because I'm not an attorney, it just felt like a lot of yapping, but nothing was being said.

Speaker 2 And like the fact that you have Cassie on the stand to be re-traumatized through all of this, it's like

Speaker 2 it felt lengthy for no reason. And yet we didn't even address the Intercontinental.
We didn't address a lot of these things that if she had been given the time to explain her side of the story,

Speaker 2 it probably would have been good. And a lot of people think that's why the internet is having the reaction it's having because certain things she was not able to address in her direct at all.

Speaker 2 Outside the federal courthouse, Doug Wicter, the attorney for Cassie and Alex Fine, give a statement, Cassie and her husband's statement.

Speaker 2 Cassie says through her attorney, this week has been incredibly challenging, yet profoundly empowering and healing for me.

Speaker 2 I hope that my testimony has provided strength and a voice to fellow survivors, encouraging others who have faced similar struggles to speak out and begin their healing process.

Speaker 2 For me, as I continue to heal, I find that I can recall more, and with each memory, I am reminded that I will never forget.

Speaker 2 I wish to extend my thanks to my family and advocates for their steadfast support, and I'm thankful for the kindness and encouragement I've received.

Speaker 2 I'm relieved to close this chapter of my life as I shift my focus to the conclusion of my pregnancy. I kindly request privacy for myself and my growing family.

Speaker 2 Cassie's husband, Alex, also made a statement through their attorney. Over the past five days, the world has gotten to witness the strength and bravery of my wife freeing herself of her past.

Speaker 2 There has been speculation online surrounding how it must feel for me to sit there and listen to my wife's testimony. I have felt so many things sitting there.

Speaker 2 I have felt tremendous pride and overwhelming love for Cass. I felt profound anger that she has been subjected to sitting in front of a person who tried to break her.

Speaker 2 So to him and all of those who helped him along the way, please know this. You did not.
You did not break her spirit nor her smile that lights up every room.

Speaker 2 You did not break the soul of a mother who gives the best hugs and plays the silliest games with our little girls. You did not break the woman who has made me a better man.

Speaker 2 I did not save Cassie, as some have said. To say that is an insult to the years of painful work that my wife has done to save herself.
Cassie saved Cassie.

Speaker 2 She alone broke free from abuse, coercion, violence, and threats. She did the work of fighting the demons that only a demon himself could have done to her.

Speaker 2 All I have done is love her as she has loved me. Her life is now surrounded by love, laughter, and our family.

Speaker 2 This horrific chapter is forever put behind us, and we will not be making additional statements.

Speaker 2 We appreciate all the love and support we have received, and we ask that you respect our privacy as we welcome our son into a world that is now safer because of his mom.

Speaker 2 And that is the final part of Cassie's testimony. But it's not really over because they bring in Cassie's best friend.

Speaker 2 They bring in Don Richard, who testifies about some of the abuse that she saw Cassie go through. They bring in Cassie's mother.

Speaker 2 And they also, we have a pretty good inkling of like another thing that the defense is probably going to try to bring in because of a line of questioning during the cross.

Speaker 2 But that is where I leave you with today's episode. What are your thoughts? Let me know in the comments and I will see you in the next one.

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