"Anthony Mackie"

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Well, here we are.

It's Will.

I've uh Sean and Jason aren't here yet, but I just want to say, don't be naughty on this all-new smart list.

Smart

list.

Smart

Let us

Smart

Let us

You know what though being in London, thank you.

That's where I'm at.

Thanks everybody.

Oh, Sean's got material.

No, I don't.

So listener, let's catch you up.

Sean is in London doing

another run of Good Night, Oscar.

What about Apt?

Thank you for bringing it back.

Thank you for Europe.

It's much more convenient for me and my travels.

Good night, London.

Good night, London.

Buena Sera.

No, the Buena Sera, Oscar.

No, the,

by the way, I'm looking at my window at Westminster Abbey.

Can you believe that?

Isn't that

got yourself a nice place there, huh?

Am I going to?

Am I?

Oh, yeah.

Can you show me my room?

Listen, I'm about to live with Sean.

You're going to go stay with those guys, huh?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Remember how you used to do that when you would travel with Sean and go to all these wonderful places around the planet?

Well, I get to do one now.

You know what it's so funny?

When I heard that, I actually thought about your sort of crappy little voice being sad about that, and then how that you were going to be excited that you were going to stay with Sean.

There's no Istanbul, but it'll do.

No, it's better.

Or Venice or Venice.

Or Venice.

Oh, that's a tight.

That's a tight second.

Both of them.

But, Shawnee, it's going well so far.

Are you remembering to look right when you step off the curb?

Isn't that wild?

I really am trying to get...

And by the way, you know the other thing?

When you're walking on a sidewalk, I have to go to the left.

No, you don't.

What are you talking about?

You're going to pass somebody.

No.

Yeah, because

they're hoping you do that.

Are they?

I'm telling you.

No.

Yeah, I'm telling you because I lean to the right and they're like, and then they lean to the right and then I lean to the right.

They keep going to the right.

You've been leaning right for years, though.

I I think you and Will are going to jump parties on me soon.

Wait, but you know that, like, you walk around London and you're like, wow, I get why J.K.

Rowling wrote Harry Potter.

Like, it's so, it's so magical.

Like, it's incredible here.

I know, I do love that place.

It's incredible.

And people that live here that I talk to, they're like,

what's that?

Just kidding rolling?

Is that what you're doing?

Just kidding, rolling, J.K.

Will,

you've been to England, right?

Do you like Europe?

Do you like England?

London in particular?

Here he comes.

Don't try to bait me.

Don't try to bait.

It was a classic bait, man.

Don't try to do it.

I'm not going to do it.

Willie, why don't you come out?

Why don't you come out?

Why don't you just move there?

I don't know why you got yourself away.

I am going to come out.

Sean, I made a plan this morning.

We're going to come see your play in August.

We're going to go over the dates.

I'm coming.

Bradley and I are coming and chapping.

No way.

That's so nice.

By the way, you guys doing some reshoots?

Tons.

We're doing reshoots, yeah.

We have tons of room, Willie.

You can stay with us if you want.

Fantastic.

Yeah, it's unbelievably beautiful.

Well,

that I'm very excited for.

But I hear you got there and it was in kind of shabby shape.

You had to bring in a deep clean company.

Yeah, when we got to this place that we got.

No, no, no, no.

Not deep clean, but you know, it has an elevator because it's an old townhouse.

Oh, boy.

And, of course, the elevator broke down.

No, what?

You were in it again?

No, I wasn't in it this time.

But I keep a bottle of valium in it.

You know what?

Can I just say something?

It might be user error at this point.

Can I just say something?

This is user error.

I think it's your fault or Scotty's fault.

This is important to say at this juncture,

which is because just in the times we live in, and I think that for you to be able to speak so openly and so bravely and so relatably about the shabby shape of the elevator in your townhouse in London.

Yeah, this is the second dwelling you've been in with an elevator.

I've never been in a place with an elevator.

Oh, but this, yeah, I'm renting it.

I don't own it.

But

it's really beautiful.

But it's,

you know, so I keep a bottle of Valium in the corner in case it goes, but I did my exposure.

You don't need a full bottle.

Why don't you just keep one in your pocket?

Well, no, no.

You need a full bottle of valium in the elevator?

In the elevator, in case it shuts down, and I have to wait for the repair guy, and I don't go crazy.

So I'm just, I need, you know,

just put a gun in there.

Put a gun in there, and then just put it deep into your fucking.

Wait a second.

First of all, your fucking therapist needs to be arrested because this is, this is, that's absurd.

No, I'm telling you, because if something goes wrong and you're stuck in there for an hour while while the guy gets there, I don't want to go crazy.

I just want to chill out.

Well, that ship has passed.

Why don't you look within, man?

I did.

So I did exposure therapy and it's kind of working.

What?

You just get on the tube and just flash your jacket open?

Yeah, it's really working.

What does that mean, exposure therapy?

So it's really fascinating.

You sit there with your palms up and your eyes closed.

You have to repeat over and over a million times.

You have to go, I'm walking down the hall, I see a small elevator, and I step inside.

I'm walking down the hall, I see a small elevator, I step inside.

And you say that over and over and over again, like, you know, for like 20 minutes, and your therapist will check in every two minutes and say, where's your anxiety level?

And it goes from 10 to 8 to 7, you know, to three to two to one, until you become bored with it.

Then you move on to, I'm walking down the hall, I step into an elevator, and then the doors close.

I'm walking down the hall, I step in the elevator, and the doors close.

And you try to feel what that feels like over and over again.

And it fucking works.

And what are they charging you an hour for this?

I don't remember.

Because I used to do this in elementary school when I would screw up.

They'd make me write stuff on a chalkboard over and over and over again.

Like Homer Simpson.

Yeah, it's called sentences or whatever.

Hey, you know what else works, Sean?

Is nutting up.

Yeah, it's just called developing the backbone and the thicker skin and just getting older.

You know, I mean, you've been through a lot in your life and you are a tough.

I mean it.

Like, you know how to deal with a lot lot of stuff, and you get your head on your shoulders.

Yeah, but it's claustrophobia.

I mean, if you got stuck in that elevator that I had second, you would have gone fucking bananas.

Will, what's your plan today?

Will, what's your plan out there in the Hamptons?

My plan is pretty, it's a little overcast and rainy.

I was already, I was up super early

going over stuff with our friend

BC.

Going over stuff.

Yeah.

The edit.

He's working on the edit.

Right?

How's stuff looking?

It's looking pretty good.

So we're doing that this morning early.

I was up like five because he's in Europe.

And then, uh, aren't you close to getting a cut that you like?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, you know, it's a work in progress.

He's, you know, working away on it.

Has he shown you his director's cut yet?

There is, no, there's no director's cut yet.

No, no.

Okay.

But, um, and then, uh, you know, did my usual thing.

Are you happy with your performance that you've seen?

I am.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know.

It's no, I'm happy with watching his performance.

It's pretty.

But I mean, it's, it's something like you're starting to see yourself and in its context with the one scene stuck next to another scene, next to another scene.

Like it's that's like it's a scary thing.

Like how's it starting to feel?

Good?

I think that we have a movie.

I'll say that.

And you've been doing it a lot longer than I have, JB.

You know how it is.

And so you never know until you know.

Right.

And so I'm just kind of leaving it out there in software.

Are you allowing it to become something different than what you had imagined it was going to be?

Yeah, it is.

Inevitably, it is.

It always, as you know, it always changes.

I'm excited for you to see it, for both of you to see it.

Sean's in it as well, and Sean's great.

So he's still in it.

You're saying it's still in it.

Yeah, as of this morning.

But I'm excited for you guys to get your thoughts.

I can't wait to hear your thoughts on it and stuff, too.

So

that'll be forthcoming.

What else are you excited about?

Our guest today.

Well, I'm excited about our guest yesterday.

I know.

Sorry, Sean.

Well, I was about to.

I was just answering the question.

Sean, are you in a rush?

Yeah, he's got a

dinner.

I'm sorry, are your knickers in a twist?

Are you keeping the palace waiting?

By the way, we're so lucky.

We're so lucky because now we do get, we get to get to our guest, which is going to be just, he's a, he's a palate cleanser in every way.

This guy is so

he's done everything.

And he's one of those guys who

classically trained, Juilliard trained.

And then, so he's done everything from Broadway to like indies to like, you know, cool cool plays to like the biggest of biggest of biggest of hits.

He's like just a bona fide movie star.

I've had the pleasure of getting to know him a little bit over the last couple of years because we've worked together on a project

together, me in a producing role, but him as the star of.

He's incredible.

You guys know him from all his performances the second I start to name it.

Sean's going to go, I know who it is.

He's been in a gazillion Marvel movies.

and within the Marvelverse, he then graduated and became a sort of a different character altogether.

You know him as Captain America.

I know him as Anthony Mackey.

Mackey, no way.

Oh,

Anthony Mackey.

Good morning.

Thank you.

I have so much to say about those first 10 minutes.

Okay, I was like, I wanted to see which one of y'all was going to talk about who had the most Teslas in their drywall.

That'd be Jason.

That'd be Jason or down to one of them.

I was trying to get it away from my wife, but she wouldn't.

Anthony, by the way, you should know that Jason's glass house is so, the glass is so fragile.

He's in his guest house overlooking his screenhouse, overlooking his main house right now.

Anyway, Anthony Mackey, dude, thank you.

Thank you for being here.

Welcome to Smartlist.

It's so great to hear you.

Yeah, so nice to meet you.

No, thanks for having me, man.

I appreciate it.

It's been a long time coming.

Yeah.

It's been a long time coming.

Where do we find you?

Are you at home?

No, I'm in Budapest right now.

And I'll tell you what.

Wow.

A black man in Budapest for the summer is, I mean, goddamn.

It's like

I found my people.

I don't know what.

I don't know.

It's like they shot me out of a rocket and landed me.

Like I did something right in my life.

You know what I mean?

They're like, you get to go to Budapest for the summer.

Really?

What do you mean?

What do you mean they just love you there?

Well, everybody loves you everywhere.

No, it's different here.

Like everybody's nice like the food is good the city's beautiful and historic you know there's a dirty river like just everything you want you know every day is sunny the the budapeshians are great people i love that and there's a lot of stuff that's shooting there lately huh like um yeah what what what are you doing there can you say uh I'm doing a show for Apple so nobody will see it called 121212.

1212 12.

Gotcha.

Apple business.

Apple's huge.

People will see it.

Come on,

Formula One.

Like it's this F1 thing.

It's making a lot of money.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Apple's great.

I'm excited.

It's my first time.

Well, my second time on Apple because I did the first movie on Apple, actually, The Banker.

And this is my first time back.

So they've been great, man.

It's been wonderful.

They gave me the opportunity to come to Budapest for the season.

And so how is it?

Is it a bunch of episodes?

So you're there for a while?

It's eight episodes it's me and jamie dornan so they're uh wow this is our second time working together i'm like you know it's um we're and kari who directed uh falcon winner soldier is directing it oh cool uh so it's a pretty good it's a pretty pretty good group great uh scripts like great stories you know it's just it's a good time and it's it's in budapest for the it sounds like it's big it sounds like it's

there's a lot of action

you know who you're talking to

you're not the only one i mean it's huge buddy we're We're doing well here.

No, I mean,

it's action and it's stunts and

it's a muscular project, yes?

It's a lot of testosterone.

Some might call it toxic, but I don't get it.

Ballsy.

Ballsy.

So how long are you there?

If you're doing eight episodes, you're there for five months?

Five months between here and London.

And it is

like London.

When I come to London in two weeks, I'm coming to your show too.

Yeah.

Yeah, I'll be there.

I'll be there.

Shit, I wear like my Liza Minelli shit.

Sure, yeah, because I'm good.

Yeah.

No, we're not going to be able to get it.

We're not going to be open in two weeks.

You come back in July.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Two weeks is in July.

Oh, well, end of July, July 31st.

So you go back and forth.

You guys shoot stuff in England.

You shoot stuff in Hungary, back and forth.

No, I'm shooting Avengers in England, and I'm shooting this in Hungary.

Okay, gotcha.

Wait a second.

So you're going back and forth to London.

You're doing Avengers.

Sean, hold your question.

Sean is a massive,

I'm a big fan of Avengers Marvel.

And you're working with, you have the misfortune of working with Downey, I'm sure, over there with Robert.

I mean,

what a drought.

Hey, he serves up a great lunch, man.

I mean, everybody's healthy.

You know,

it's really good.

We drink

his bottled chill brew.

It's a good time.

It's a good time.

It's a good time.

So, Anthony, with all this time away from home,

what's the main thing you find yourself missing?

I ask because it's on my mind.

I just had my daughter call me from, she's on a trip to actually also to Europe on some sort of camp thing, and she's feeling really homesick.

But so,

what are you missing most about home right now?

Yeah.

I hate to say this because it fits in y'all's conversation earlier, but I miss my cars, man.

Yeah, yeah.

I miss driving when I'm away from home.

I just want to, I'm a very, very like homestrucking dude.

So literally, I'll go, after going to the gym, I'll get a pole boy and an ice cold beer, sit in the garage, and work on my cars all day.

Wait, so after the gym, you find a real fatty, carbohydrate-ritten snack and some puffy-making beer.

Sure, Jason's one of those guys who doesn't eat pizza, by the way.

But I came out with a big fat face i gotta like spend every minute of every day that's the whole point of going to the gym man you go to the gym and you're like then you go get a po-boo exactly i exercise so that i can be a little bit bad i don't exercise you look you look great man you look like

i love you you look like you have one of those pelotones you know what you look like you do pilates is what it is

how dare you um so you miss driving you miss your cars uh where's home l you you do have like a pilates not your body but your temperament and like the way that you are in the world You seem like a Pilates person.

I tell you what, I am hearing that that's what I need to make a friend of, is Pilates.

Pilates, yeah.

Yeah, it's good that it's a bit of a pilot.

Yeah, so it's got all the stretching of yoga, but it's got some core strengthening, like muscle-building stuff.

Anyway, I take that.

I heard it gives you outstanding sexual stamina.

Wait, what?

He doesn't mean that.

I heard, dude.

I heard a friend of mine started doing that.

Use a little bump in that as well.

Thank you.

Just maybe another 20, 30 seconds would be incredible.

Wait, Anthony,

speaking of relationships,

I love this segment.

I'm just waiting for you to get your first fucking question.

All my clothes are off.

Go ahead.

Wait, I love it.

I love it, JB.

I'm telling you, I love it.

I'm having fun.

It's fun.

Do you notice that, Sean?

He brings on a guest.

He just sits back.

He basically introduces them.

And then he's like, okay.

Not at all.

We're having a conversation.

We're having a conversation.

We've covered a lot of shit.

This is going really well.

I have to say.

Yeah, this is going very well.

How dare you?

Oh, sorry.

Okay.

Anthony, just to make Sean, just to make JB feel better.

Anthony, how'd you get your start in show business?

Which I really do want to do.

By the way, JB, you will be jealous.

Let's talk a little bit for a second.

And Anthony, I've asked you about this in person, too.

You went to Juilliard, which is so rad.

It's like the gold standard.

I mean, that must have been talk a little bit about like getting into Juilliard and was it like a dream?

Was it a dream come true, or were you like, yeah, big dream?

Did you ever cross paths with Laura Lenny there?

I think she's she's a big wig over there.

I never saw Laura Lenny.

She was never there when I was there.

Patty Lapone was there all the time, which was amazing.

But

it all started in New Orleans.

I mean, I went to the school called New Orleans Center for Creative Arts, which is pretty much like fame, but in New Orleans.

And

I just loved it.

Like, it was amazing.

It taught me everything.

And I got to New Orleans, it is a very segregated city.

So getting to meet and see people from the other side of the city was mind-blowing how different it was, you know, on the other side of the track.

So it forced me to want to get out of New York.

I mean, New Orleans.

So I went to boarding school in North Carolina

at North Carolina School of the Arts.

And

I consider that to be my year of time.

Like, everybody's been arrested.

My year of jail time was at in Winston-Salem.

Oh, really?

Why, why, why, why,

have you ever been to Winston-Salem?

No, no,

Winston-Salem in 1996 was some shit.

You hear me?

So, I made it out.

I did my bid.

I got out.

You know what I mean?

Yeah.

And the man couldn't hold me down forever.

So, I moved up to New York and, you know, auditioned and got into Juilliard from North Carolina.

and moved to New York when I was 18.

And it was crazy.

Wait, so Anthony,

so you grow up in New Orleans.

You were born and raised there?

Yeah, born and raised, yeah.

Semoor Boscoville, Hardhead.

So then your first real exposure to, as you say, the other side of the tracks was going to this really cool art school where you got to see

some folks that are from a different socioeconomic background and they're coming to see some of the productions and stuff like that.

And the, the seed gets planted to be an artist, an actor.

Yeah.

And, and, and, and, and you say, okay, I'm not bad at this.

You're getting some nice accolades

such that you think you can take on more?

Not at all.

It was just, it was something I, I, I was, uh, probably the worst actor at my school, but really, I, uh, it kept my interest, you know, like,

you know, the idea of being in a room with different types of people and doing different types of shit.

It was almost like every day was summer camp.

Like, I look forward to going there every day because you would go there half a day and then regular school half a day.

And it was just like a bunch of people in a room that I

like identified with, people that I got along with.

And, you know, it was a school that was half dancer.

So we had all these smoking chicks in a dance program.

So I was like, fuck.

Like, I just showed my, I have a 16-year-old son.

I showed him my yearbook from high school.

And he was like, yo, those are the girls.

And I'm like, this is what girls looked like when I was in school.

Fuck you.

Like, you got it good.

And we will be right back.

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And now back to the show.

Was it a common thing for the folks where you grew up to go into the arts, become an actor, go to this art school?

Not become an actor.

I mean, in New Orleans, you know, every little boy grows up wanting to be a trumpet player.

You know, everybody wants to be a musician.

Everybody wants to march in a parades.

But were your parents musicians or in the arts at all?

No, hell no.

My daddy worked.

My daddy was a roofer, you know?

So it was six of us.

He had to work.

So

I was roofing in New Orleans, too.

That is not.

Yeah, my my mom was a homemaker and my dad was a roofer so it um but they always pressed on us education and going to school uh so it was very important to them that um we did something that fulfilled our our dreams and kept us interested but also probably they had their eye on practicality too it sounds like they're they they were not uh afraid of good good hard work and some some pleasant predictability about income and uh and providing were they sort sort of,

you sure you want to pursue acting or the arts is something that like,

how about getting like a quote unquote real job?

Was there pressure for you to do that as well?

No, not at all.

My parents, my dad had one rule, do whatever you want, be the best at it, just don't go to jail.

Oh, that's cool.

That was it.

Wow.

You could be a damn garbage man.

Just be the best garbage man and don't go to jail.

That's it.

Like growing up in New Orleans in the 80s and 90s, it was such a rough city.

It was, I mean, it was the murder murder capital of the world.

I mean, they were in a city of 700,000 people,

400 to 500 people were getting murdered a year.

So Per Square Capita, we were literally the murder capital of the world.

Wow, I didn't know that.

So, yeah, it was wildly dangerous in the early 90s.

Do you have brothers and sisters or were you an only child?

Five of them, yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

And

we're all vastly different and very different.

Anybody else go into the arts?

No, no, no, no, no, no.

My brother, you know, was a

singer, but he also played tennis.

So all that shit's weird.

You know what I mean?

So, so, so, I mean, that's amazing.

So, you go, and then you go to, you go to North Carolina, then you go up, you get into Juilliard, and you go to Juilliard, and I always wonder this.

So, you graduate Juilliard, you've got a degree from arguably like the premier place to get an acting degree, certainly in the States.

And is it like, okay,

you know, the day after you graduate, is it like everybody's knocking at your door or is it just hit the streets and start auditioning like everybody else?

Well, you do this thing called league scenes, and you invite all the agents and all the agencies to come see the graduating class do their monologue.

A showcase, yeah.

And everybody comes, and from that, hopefully, you'll get an agent or a manager.

And I got lucky.

I did these, you know, three scenes, and they were fine.

You know, it was cool.

But what really helped me was when i was in school um we wrote this play about tupac called up against the wind yes and um you know i we all did it like you know there was a girl rosemary in a directing program michael in a writing program and all of us actors we all wrote and produced the scene ourselves i mean the the show ourselves at school so when we did this the show, Jim Nicola from New York Theater Workshop came to see the show and was like, I want to move this off Broadway.

So it was a big problem at Juilliard because you're not allowed to do outside work while you're a student.

And it came out.

But it was a gray area because you guys had started it at the school.

I started it at the school.

Right.

And, you know,

it was very eye-opening because there was a fight between me and the staff if I would do this play off Broadway, which was created at the school, or if I would do the checkoff play for my final grade of the year.

Right.

So we were going back and forth about that, and they were very adamant about not letting me do this play.

And then the play caught fire and took off.

And all of a sudden, everybody was a supporter.

Like, there was a teacher who was interviewed by the New York Times.

And true story, this is still in print.

She said, you know, usually the black kids just sit around and wait to see who's going to play Othello.

But it's great that they created something that they can go and do

in the New York theater.

whoa

what what does that even mean like what it means she was a idiot i know that what that's yeah crazy yeah what it means she was a idiot

wow that's what it means that must have lit a fire under your like a little bit to be like like i'm gonna yeah like yeah and that was my biggest thing like coming out of that school it was it was really eye-opening for many different reasons because i went to go see a play like every two weeks and I saw so much bad theater, but I saw so much good theater

and so much small theater and innovative and courageous theater.

And it really just formed and shaped me.

What I saw really formed and shaped me more than what I learned at school.

Yeah.

And now what you find yourself, sorry, Sean, you find yourself at a place of great success with tons of momentum and futures wide open.

Did you allow yourself to see yourself at this place at this age?

Or are you kind of like, you know, it's a tough question to answer, but are you where you thought you would be?

Are you, are you, are you

overperforming, underperforming?

You've got to be happy.

You've got to be content.

You know, this is a weird business.

And, you know, psychologically, it's a huge mind fuck to be a part of this business because

I never thought I would be here.

Like I never, when I got into this business, I didn't say, oh, I want to be famous.

Oh, I want to be a movie star.

I literally dreamed about being a working actor.

I wanted to, you know, work at the Guthrie.

I wanted to work at Penumbra.

You know, I was like, that's why we've had longevity.

And that was the focus of my career.

Like, how can I do these great roles?

You know,

these great American theater roles in great theaters around the country, you know?

And

it just so happened,

you know, because it sounds like such an asshole story.

So

when we were doing Up Against the Wind,

there was this amazing casting director named Molly Finn.

God rest her soul.

And she was in New York.

She came to see the play.

And Curtis Hansen was putting together 8-Mile.

Right.

That's right.

So she came to see the play.

I get to audition for Curtis Hansen.

And I was always a huge fan of Curtis from LA Confidential, from all the shit he had did.

And

my

audition, like it was just funny.

I always had a belief if you get people to directing you and working with you, that's because they're interested in you.

If you audition and they go, good job, kid, thanks for coming in, then nine times out of ten, you ain't getting that job.

So I walk in and I meet Curtis, sit down.

Curtis was a cool cat, like love him to death.

And I asked him, I said,

so at that, that was right when, like a year after Wonder Boys had came out.

And I said, Curtis, I have a question for you before we start.

He's like, Yeah, sure, go ahead.

So I was like, Wonder Boys.

I'm like,

was that meant to be an ode to Alfred Hitchcock?

Or were you like directing it in a sense towards the ideals and teachings of Hitchcock and the way he worked?

So he goes, whoa, what are you talking about?

What do you mean?

So I explained.

to him what I saw in the movie and, you know, what he did with Toby McGuire and the backdrops in the scene and the escalating visual aspect that tied into the mental frustration of the character.

And we talked for like an hour about Wonder Boys.

I never read,

never did my audition.

So I come out and I'm like, fuck.

Like, oops.

I blew my chance to, you know?

So I'm like, don't do that again.

Don't do that again.

So three weeks later, he called and he was like, yo,

cast somebody else in the role that you came in for, but there's another role.

It's only four days.

If you are, if it, I don't want to offend you, I know you're a trained actor, but if you're willing to do it, you know, I'd love to have you in Detroit.

So, I'm like, hell yes, Curtis Hanson.

Yeah, so fly to Detroit

and just sit with Curtis Hansen and eat dinner and like kick it for like two weeks.

And

the role only was four scenes.

Yeah.

Right.

And he was like,

you have anything booked after this?

I said, not.

He was like, well, so if I extend your role, you can stay.

I'm like,

I can stay.

Going nowhere.

So they extended my contract to a run-of-picture, and we developed that role over the course of

really cool.

And

that's kind of how

it started.

That's amazing.

That's so cool.

You guys kind of built it off a person, like just like a dialogue that you were having with him about a shared interest.

Like, that's that's so relevant.

That's what's so funny in the movie.

Like,

Eminem has that, you know, rap at the end of the movie where he's like, you went to private school and all that shit.

If you go back, like,

we had a conversation a week before and we're talking shit.

And, you know, M is just an amazing dude and a lovely human being once you spend time with him.

It's just funny, but he's always learning and hearing and listening.

Like, he's like a fucking sponge.

So we get to set the next day and he's like, yo, there's no reason why I don't like this dude.

Like, yeah, we're beefing, but nobody knows about our backstory and our history, so we need to put that in a script.

So, Curtis was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you right.

So,

it comes the battle scene, right?

And I write my rhyme, I'm like,

right.

We go to set, and Eminem

starts his rap.

And he's like, You went to private school.

I was like, I did go to private school.

He's like, Your parents have a real good marriage.

I'm like, My parents do have a real good marriage.

You motherfucker, you talking about me,

that's cool that's cool wow

now wait a second wait so was was eight mile your first movie that was my very first movie yeah wow yeah that's pretty cool wow 2001 man that was my first movie nice start that was my first job isn't that crazy i mean it was the first massive movie i know yeah yeah yeah i did i did up against the wind off broadway and then went into uh uh eight mile have you been back to theater yet?

Yeah, I did.

Well, the last time I did theater was 2016 with Chris Walkin and

one of the most amazing human beings on earth, Sam Rockwell and Zoe Kazan.

Called

Behanding and Spokane.

Oh, yeah.

And I'll tell you what, if you haven't worked with Chris Walkin, just save up some money.

produce a play and fucking do a play with Chris Walkin.

That motherfucker's amazing.

Like that was, that was the pinnacle of being able to do theater to see him on stage every night.

I bet, I bet.

That's really cool.

What a cool experience.

You know, a lot of people say, you know, acting is the study of human behavior and this human psychology and stuff like that.

And you've done so many,

so many different roles and so many, played so many different people.

Do you find yourself outside of work?

kind of getting people's heads or analyzing people's behavior or analyzing the human behavior outside of a role.

Like I find myself doing that probably to a fault sometimes because I'm like, oh, that person acts like that because of A, B, you know what I mean?

Do you do that?

Well, no, that's a very interesting perspective and great question because I do that all the time.

But in this generation, like people are so

like thwarted with their own insecurities that you can't really ask questions about why they do something or how they think because they instantly go on the defensive because they haven't even thought about why they do the things they do and why they think the way they do.

Yeah, they don't think that deep.

Yeah.

And my thing is, as an actor, it's really interesting to me to try and understand people and the knowledge and the aspect of what happened on the course of your day to make you act or react it the way you did just now.

Right.

You know,

you just ask questions like,

why do you think that way?

Or what made you think that?

And it's like, oh, you're you're just being an asshole.

And, you know,

because

I'll drive Scotty, my husband, crazy.

I'll constantly ask him every day, how are you?

What are you doing?

What are you thinking about?

What's going on?

You all right?

Like, trying to get in there because he's like, yeah, get out of my face.

I'm fine.

I'm fine.

You know?

You're a digger.

And he's just like, just let me be quiet.

Yeah, like there's nothing wrong.

Is he really grouchy?

Does he seem really grouchy?

No, no.

I just want to know.

But he goes, if you keep asking me, that's what I'm going to get upset.

Exactly.

You know what I mean?

It sounds like a great match for me.

You ever get tired of Scotty, you send him over to me.

We'll be quiet in the car together.

We'll be so quiet.

Just sit over there.

But I didn't know, Anthony,

if you're like that, Anthony, where...

Anything like me, where if it's in a relationship, whether it's a friend or a coworker or a romantic relationship, whatever it is,

I just sometimes overanalyze people to death.

And they're just like, okay, stop talking.

Yeah, I try to, and I just ask questions and give them space to breathe and just see what comes out of that.

You know, but for some reason, people take that as you being an asshole and they get upset with you because you try and understand them and they've never tried to understand themselves.

You know, and the more I understand you, the easier and better this relationship will work out.

Like I was having a conversation the other day, and my boy was like, you know, you need to come to LA and go to the parties and meet these directors so people can see you.

And I'm like, yo, after 25 years, if I got to go to a party at like so-and-so's house for you to want to work with me, then fuck you, dude.

You know what I mean?

It's like, we've been in this game long enough to where,

like, you know, the people that like are doing it and the way they're doing it.

What's this game now?

What is this game?

Now, all of a sudden, I got to come to parties and do blow off of Jason's dick for us.

exactly Jason.

Yeah, leave that up to me.

But it was

a short line, though, wasn't it?

Jason, stop putting blow on your dick.

Well, it's my short line.

I can't really fit a line on there.

It's just little upgrades.

By the way, you'll hear funny.

I texted this to JB twice this week in the same day.

Two people came out to me and go, Hey, I know your buddy Jason.

I used to party with him back in the day.

I used to live in Venice, and this other guy, I worked with him on a thing, and I texted JB.

And JB goes, Yeah, I put a lot of people into rehab.

Bye.

Have fun.

They spent a week with Jason in 1995, and they were screwed.

They were screwed.

They were done.

Wait, so you do, Sean brought up, I mean, you've done, I mean, you've just done countless movies, and you've done so many different kinds of characters.

I know so many.

And you're amazing.

Off-Broadway, Broadway.

Obviously, we mentioned Juilliard, and you did all this stuff.

And then, and you're in Hurt Locker, like you've been in all these

celebrated films, and then you get asked to become part of the MCU.

Yeah.

And what was

that process?

That's the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Tracy?

She knows that.

That's one we don't need to explain.

I don't know.

Is Tracy a big Marvel fan?

Just a strike.

Sean's sister.

Sorry.

She really likes rom-coms.

Right.

Yeah.

Okay.

So, Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Here we go.

What was that call?

Like, what was that conversation?

And were you like, were you like, yes, or were you like,

was the first one,

to Will's Will's question, was the first one Winter Soldier?

Was that the first one?

Yeah, because I saw you in that.

I saw, I love that movie, by the way.

I love that movie.

I know.

And I love all of them.

But I mean, like,

when I saw you, I was like, what the?

This guy's incredible.

Like, what an unbelievable addition.

What the fucking, I mean, it's

costume with the colours.

Favorite parts, you know, the wings.

So, so, wait, so wait, so how did that, how did that roll out?

How did that roll out?

No, yeah, but yeah, yeah, how did it feel get the call and like what?

And oh, my God, and what was it like?

You know, it came together like a,

you know, it was like a well, I guess it was a what?

Oh my god.

Tell us what.

Yeah, because I kissed Sean.

No, I know.

Tell us some more.

No, I just can't imagine getting a call like that.

Sean, Sean, if Sean, if Sean's, if Scotty knew who Sean was about to get the call, he'd put a diaper on him first.

Like a little baby chimp about to get his first taste of ice cream.

Fucking what?

running around this townhouse with no elevator, just doing zoomies, zoomies on the floor

with a belly full of sand.

And a diaper full of no, but that must have been a cool, that must have been a pretty cool day.

Like, hey, you want to come and join the fucking biggest thing in the cinematic world?

No, it was.

It was a really cool call to get.

You know, but the problem was.

But it wasn't checkoff at

Lincoln Center.

So it was like,

you had to think, okay,

can I bear this and still pursue that?

Right?

Like, there's a strategic career growth sort of conversation you have to have with yourself and your team, perhaps, at times when you get opportunity, right?

But that script was phenomenal, I'm sure.

Like, it's not like, you know what I mean?

Well, but that's the problem with Marvel.

You don't know.

You don't get to read the script.

You don't get to know anything.

Like, I had a meeting with the Russo brothers, and

these guys, they're one

two brothers from Cleveland,

but with a great Italian heritage.

These two guys

are poor as real.

We'll be right back.

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And back to the show.

So the Russo's call, we know Joe and Anthony real well.

TB and I do.

And so they call you and they're like, just say yes or no, sight on scene.

Pretty much, we meet.

It was such, it was like the most LA shit I've ever experienced.

We go to this hotel and it's like all like art stucco and a swimming pool in the middle.

And it's like all these ladies, these old ladies with like their lobster titties laying out by the pool.

You know, we order lunch and they're just like fucking cooking.

And Nate Moore and I were like the only two black dudes in the whole hotel.

Like it was some LA Beverly Hills shit.

Everybody has their shades on.

Sure.

So, you know, Joe Russo, he's the talker, you know.

So Joe goes, look, Anthony, we have a script.

We have an idea.

You know, we have a character and we'd like you to play it uh

is that something you're interested in

and i was like yeah like can i read it he went no

can i know the character no wow so i didn't know who i was playing no literally so what made you want yeah what made you want to say yeah joe's magnetism

because i knew being in the mcu would like do for my career the same thing, you know,

being nominated for an Oscar Award.

Yeah, right.

You know, because at the end of the day, if you go up to, and I always do this with my friends, at the end of the day, if you go up to the average person and ask them who won best actor last year, no one knows they don't know.

Nobody knows.

Not even the average person.

Ask any of us who won best actor last year.

Who won best actor?

I have no idea.

Adrian Brody.

I can't tell you what.

Adrian Brody.

Go up to the average person and ask them who, average person our age.

Ask them who, you know,

who was, who played Rocky or, you know, who did this?

So they'll always have those iconic characters and moments in their mind as opposed to an award push for you to get a statue.

Sure.

Right, right.

Right, so, right.

So, so in that respect, it's a no, it's a no-brainer.

It's like, like I said, it's like, hey,

we're running the biggest deal in the game right now.

Do you want to jump on this train?

We're going this way.

And you're like, I kind of want to go that way.

Hell yeah.

Then you let your eyes, then you let your eyes drift over to Anthony Russo, and you're like, like, well, hang on a second.

This guy has not stopped staring at me.

He hasn't said a fucking word.

Not a word.

He just stares at you the whole time.

And I want to know what the deal is.

Anthony's going to be a stone-cold psycho with you

while Joe's talking,

eating his sandwich.

He's trying to distract you with the shiny penny over here.

Don't look at my brother.

I always find it fun when Joe takes the time out from playing fantasy football to actually have a conversation with you.

That part's fun.

He's going to stop looking at his phone to actually look at you and talk to you for one second i'm like i feel like the most special person he's like the talented mr ripley he's like

so how's it going yeah

you know and it's fine so so what happens so then at what stage of the of that of of of that whole thing do you get do you finally kind of get keyed in on who your character is like what his name is what he is uh where he lives and then actually reading a script et cetera etc like how far down the road Right before I got on a plane to go to Cleveland, because we shot that in Cleveland, mostly in Cleveland, some stuff in Atlanta.

But

I didn't have anything.

I was just like Marvel.

I loved the movies.

I'd always wanted to be in the movies since the first Iron Man.

I'm like, I'm down.

I didn't know what the movie was.

I just thought

because I had been approaching them.

I had had my team approach them

a long time before about the idea of playing Black Panther.

Like growing up, Black Panther was one of my favorite comic books because my oldest brother read all the comic books.

So I always, that was like Luke Cage and Black Panther were my two favorite comic icons, along with Superman.

But they were my two favorite black dudes.

And we had always gone after and circled the idea of at some point in time, they have to do Black Panther.

you know call them emailed them text them i write letters to kevin feige fuck you black panther right

Right, right.

So I thought when they hit me up, they were like, you know, would you play this role?

I'm like, of course it's Black Panther.

But then when I got the script, I realized it was Sam Wilson.

And once I started reading the history and the background about Sam Wilson, I realized the importance of him in the MCU, like what Stan Lee intended

for him to be and what he created him for was really amazing and really profound and really spoke to the idea of the perspective of the black American in America at that time.

So it was, you know, him being a part of the airborne

was strategic.

You know, him being

ex-military was strategic.

Him being a hustler from Harlem was strategic.

All of those things were put in there to socialize and emulate what black culture was at that time in America.

So as black culture evolved, so did Sam Wilson in the MCU.

So you do that.

So you get there, and you appreciate that, and you start getting into that, and then you eventually, and you make, I don't know how many movies you were in, obviously

seven.

Yeah, like some movies.

Seven.

Yes, now this is, this would be my

10th and 11th.

10th?

I mean, how about, hey, Rey Russo's, hey, how about just

a brief cameo?

I know.

So

Jason and I know them.

When they were just

directed directed the pilot of Rest of the

Tech.

These are two of the oldest.

We've known Joe and Anthony about as long as anybody in town.

That would be great.

Right?

Jason, who knows those guys longer in town than us?

Anthony is the end.

Do not text Joe.

That text will be lost.

It's unbelievable.

Just a couple of nice seats for a premiere would be great.

Yeah, that'd be.

Even just a discount at Regal Cinemas would, you know, I take that at this point.

You know what I mean?

But so you do.

So this is your ninth and tenth or tenth and eleventh.

And then when was it that you made the transition when you became Captain America?

That's a pretty...

That sort of mantle was handed over.

When was that?

That was

at the end of Endgame, which was weird because that's when all the shit changed.

Like that's when...

you know, Disney bought Marvel and Disney Plus became a thing.

And after Endgame was when everything turned into this idea of Marvel and Marvel streaming and Marvel TV and all these different entities under the Disney umbrella.

So, because of that,

which I was very happy about because you could put so much in a eight-part series as opposed to an hour and 45-minute movie,

the

Falcon Winner Soldier show was more so about the idea of Sam Wilson becoming Captain America and leaving all the other shit behind.

So that's what I did after Endgame.

Because nobody knew, like on Endgame, I didn't know I was going to fucking be Captain America.

Nobody knew that shit.

Like I found that out the day we were on set.

I didn't know about that.

That Sunday, Sunday, we were at Chris's house playing, watching football.

And I found out at Chris's house that Monday morning, we were shooting a scene where I became Captain America because he had got those pages Wednesday.

Oh, my God.

You guys don't even get a script when you start a project.

Wow.

No, you get a script, but as soon as you get the script, you put it down and every day you get pages.

Oof.

Yeah, yeah.

And then they're like, hey, you better read these pages because we're about to change the trajectory of your life.

Character, your life, your career.

Right?

Like, just.

So like,

is there like a group of like super dorks that are sitting around a table and figuring out how all of these different characters

intertwine.

And, like, is there like a microphone?

I mean, that's what you want to know.

Look at the mirror, Sean.

A one-year plan, five-year plan, ten-year plan for how all these characters slowly get closer to one another and cross-pollinate.

And, like,

where's the think tank on all this stuff?

I want to know.

And when does Mickey Mouse come into all of this stuff?

You know, the idea is

the scope of it all.

The original plan was

the first cycle, the first 10 movies to have that arc all the way to endgame.

And then, you know, all the other phases after that, they just build it out phase by phase.

So you have the beginning, the middle, and the end of the phase.

And how that, how that works.

I wouldn't even know where to start.

I mean,

would I start at Iron Man?

And like that, that would, if I just started there, I would, I'd, I'd start to get...

You could do the Iron Man one, two, and three, and then where do you move to?

Well, see, this is the problem.

All right.

I don't think you need to watch all the movies.

Like, I don't think some of the movies, like the Thor movies, don't really

translate into the universe.

But there's probably some useful information there that affects other stuff, right?

Because that's Thor's own thing.

Like, that shit is so far out.

Like, it's so different because he's a god.

Like, that shit, when you see Thor come into the MCU, you never see anybody go to his universe.

Right, right.

So, Spider-Man wasn't around because Spider-Man was owned by Sony and Spider-Man came into the world on Civil War.

So you don't need to watch any 17 incarnations of Spider-Man.

God.

So

the movies you really need to watch are the Iron Man movies and the Captain America movies.

Those are the ones that give you the

through line in Spanish.

And that'll get me to Avengers?

So Captain America, The First Avenger, and all the Iron Man and Captain America movies will get you to Endgame.

Jamie, I think we need to do, you and I need to do an MCU film fest in your new theater.

Please, what are you home?

I'm sure one of y'all got a movie theater in y'all's house.

No, Jason does.

I'm sure all three of you have movie theaters in your house.

I do not.

I do not.

Jason does.

It's not in his house.

It's its own building.

Now, listen.

So, so it literally has a different address.

Next question.

But

so so you do all that stuff.

I don't know how you find the time to do all this other stuff.

Not to mention the fact that we've got Twisted Metal Season 2, which is premieres end of the end of July.

July.

This is the thing you're producing, Willie?

Yeah.

Yeah, on Peacock's.

That's end of July.

Season 2 comes out on that, which is a huge hit for Peacock.

So that's coming out.

You're promoting that.

Second season, super fun.

Anthony's so good.

If you haven't seen it, Anthony is so good in it and so funny.

It's a good time.

It's a good time.

It's fun.

You're a band member in a hard metal band?

Is that what?

No, no, but not a bad member.

No, Dad.

We're just

on the road with you.

It's like stuff in the bus.

No,

fucking.

He's too busy listening to Yacht Rock to watch our fucking show.

Yeah, totally.

No, it's a.

It's a post-post game.

It's basically based on a video game.

The video game Twisted Metal, which was big in the 80s and 90s, 90s and early 2000s.

It's a,

we got the property and built out this world behind the lead character John Doe.

And, you know, it's the post-apocalypse, and the world is basically falling apart.

But you see John Doe and the rest of the characters trying to maneuver through it and figure out how to get inside what is now the real world, which are these walled-in cities all over the world where society and reality still exist instead of the war zone that's outside the walls.

But Anthony, you know, it's, there's, you, there's so many projects that you're, I mean, I know, I know, like, it's mind-blowing.

Like, do you,

by the way, it would be like, when you go to the market, Anthony, Anthony, do you remember like we would have

meetings

when we were first

working on Twisted Metal?

We had a couple like development meetings or something.

And like, I'd be like, Anthony, where are you?

And he's like, I'm in Saudi Arabia.

I'm on a boat.

He literally's like, I'm on a boat in Saudi Arabia.

And I'm like, what are you talking about?

All right.

So then

this prompts the obvious question.

Let's talk about domestic life.

Do we have a family that we're trying to navigate through all this?

Or are you just a rock and single and you just can take your show on the road?

No, the one thing I realize is being like.

I'm a firm believer that I think, like, I love to work.

Yeah, clearly.

I feel like me working is my happiness.

You know, I love to stay busy.

It's like, that's just my joy.

And, you know, sadly to say that most of the times when you're gone for four and five months at a time, relationships don't really fit into that.

And all of my free time and all of my empty brain space goes to my kids.

You know, it's like I have, I have a four sons and, you know, four little boys, dude.

Like, they are so interesting and different and manipulative and just little assholes at the same time.

So it's like, it's like, you know, you have to like every free moment I have is a moment to fall in love with my boys.

Yeah, yeah.

So I don't really have space.

Are they able to come with you on some of these things?

Well,

they do.

They'll come out and visit, but the problem is I have to remember that they have their own live.

Exactly.

You know, like now I'm in Budapest and my boys have worked all school year for two and a half months of summer.

Exactly.

So do I say, fuck your camps, fuck your friends, fuck your fun, you come to Budapest and sit in this hotel room while I'm at work.

Can't even see them.

I get to see you right before you go to bed.

Yeah, I'm saying that.

That would be,

I would hate that.

Yeah, right.

So it's a, you know.

Well, what hotel?

Which hotel?

Depends.

The Budapest hotel.

Yo, my boys, they love a good room service, boy.

Them fucking chicken wings are.

The chicken tenders?

And craft service?

I bet you Marvel puts up a nice craft service on set, too.

Good snacks.

Yo, our crafty is crazy.

And then you can go over to Downey's camp, too, and get a little something extra.

Crazier.

But like one day, I snuck over.

Well, you go get your fiber in Downey's camp.

Sure, if you're gluten intolerant, you just step over there.

So when we were, when he had the pizza truck, I went up to his security.

Security's real cool guy.

And I was like, look, man.

I went over to the pizza truck and all of them was sitting in there talking.

I'm like, I don't want to sit in there and talk to them, motherfuckers.

I want to make pizza.

So I go over with the pizza guys and start making pizza on the truck, right?

So I make this dope, delicious, I mean, chef's kiss pizza, right?

So I cut a piece off and I go over to Downey's security guard and I'm like, yo, man,

here's a slice of pizza.

Like, I know you've had a long day.

So I just wanted to introduce myself.

We haven't met.

My name's Anthony.

It's so great to meet you.

He's like, oh, nice to meet you.

So two days later, I'm like i want to sneak in robert's

base camp and he's like who has air conditioning

i go in my trailer i don't have ice i'm like i know who has ice right so i sneak over to roberts base camp i go to the security guard i was like yo what's up he's like anthony how's it going he's like that was a great pizza thanks i was like hey you mind if i If I go in right quick?

He's like, no, go right ahead.

I stole all his fucking ice.

That's how it works, kid.

That's how it works.

Yeah.

That's right.

It's who you know.

It's who you know.

It's who you know.

There's no little man on this poll.

Well, listen, man, we've taken up too much of your time.

You're over there, you're working, you're having a good time.

You're probably on your weekend, and we're really.

Yeah, that's really nice of you.

Dude,

Anthony, it's always awesome to talk to you.

Again, like, you're the busiest dude I know.

You're such a super talented dude.

So impressive.

And if you haven't seen, if you haven't seen Twisted Metal, please see Twisted Metal season two on July 31st on Peacock.

Like I said, Anthony's amazing in it.

And then your new show coming out next year on Apple,

12, 12, 12, which is going to be amazing.

And more Avengers and more all of it.

And, dude, Anthony.

Keep it coming.

We love it.

Yeah, keep it coming.

Continued success, dude.

You're a great team.

I love a lot, man.

Appreciate it.

Sean, I'm going to come check you when I get back to London.

I love it.

I love it.

Thank you.

I feel like you like April Spritz and shit.

So we're going to have like an April Spritz or something.

I'll have it.

I'll have anything with a Spritz in it.

I mean,

yeah.

I would love that, Anthony.

It'd be great to see you, too.

Yeah.

So come on down.

I would love it.

I'd be so honored.

Definitely.

We'll do.

Great to see you.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Thanks a lot, guys.

Thanks.

Nice to see you.

See you, buddy.

Oh, Sean.

Hey, Sean, great job.

Great job.

I didn't know anything.

You know, Sean's been working with a tutor, an interview tuner.

Tutor?

Thank you.

Yeah.

This is

subtle, but it's much better.

Thank you.

I mean, I'm billing her three ways.

How could he?

He's the only nominated interviewer that we've got.

There's always room to improve, he said to me in a text.

Were you not on that?

Yeah.

No.

How great is Anthony, right?

Yeah, he's great.

I've never met him, never seen an interview with him.

And that was awesome.

Yeah, he's really cool.

He's such a great dude.

And

when you look at his credits, it's so unbelievably impressive.

Not just the volume, but all the different kinds of characters he's played.

I'd love to see him on stage, too.

I bet he's a beast.

Incredible on stage.

And you see that, like, you see, remember he said early on he was like, well, you know, you want to come out.

You want to do too many different things because you don't want people to think you're all over the place.

I'm like, dude.

Mission accomplished.

Yeah.

I mean,

he's covered every corner.

Yeah.

I know, and he's got like 17 things coming out soon.

I know.

There was one year, I think, where he had like eight movies in theaters at the same time.

Are you kidding me?

No.

Crazy.

Yeah.

Oh, my God.

The promotional work on that must have been a nightmare.

All the stories you've got to come up with.

Oh, my God.

Oh, my God.

How about this?

You immediately think about the junket.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the first thing you think of.

You have to think of like so, like,

so many different ways on that junket to say.

Like what?

Good.

Oh.

no, no.

No, work on it a little bit more.

Come back to us.

That was just a straight up.

Oh, you got another one?

Well,

you know what?

You ought to do nest of your traps in the elevator or think of some good butts.

Yeah.

And just put a chalkboard in there.

You know what I mean?

Is there a new dad joke you've got for us today?

We haven't had a dad joke today.

I'd really like one.

I did have.

Did I do the

what did the pirates say when he turned 80?

Did I do that one?

No.

Uh-uh.

What did the pirates say when he turned 80?

Well, what?

Hi, meaty.

That really got him.

I really like that.

I just love them so much, but I love them coming out of Sean's face.

I know.

You know, because he's just like,

I'm half laughing already when I'm around him.

What did the pirates say after they plundered the other boat?

What?

What?

Bye, meaty.

Bye, meaty, meaty.

Oh, it's so fun hanging out with you guys.

Jesus.

Bye, gang.

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