"Stephen Graham"

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Speaker 1 Hey guys, good morning. I'm drinking some tea.
What do you got?

Speaker 1 Uh, spit? Spit in my mouth? That's about it. Oh, welcome to Smart List.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 1 Smart

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 1 Hey, what do you got?

Speaker 2 Do you call it a toiletry bag or do you call it a dop? Is it dop kit? DOP? Dop kit.

Speaker 1 DOP is involved.

Speaker 1 We went through this on stage in front of thousands of people.

Speaker 2 Oh, I don't remember things.

Speaker 1 Wait,

Speaker 1 Do you not remember? No.

Speaker 1 We were on tour. We were in Washington, D.C.
It was our first time.

Speaker 1 And we got Sam Jones as a gift, right?

Speaker 1 Didn't we?

Speaker 1 I don't remember that part. I don't remember what that was.

Speaker 2 No, look whose memory is a little soft.

Speaker 2 But what does dop, what does Dop Kit mean? D-O-P?

Speaker 1 It's German, right? For toiletry stuff.

Speaker 1 It's German, man. Remember,

Speaker 1 somebody in the audience yelled it it out and they said it's German. I forget how it came about.

Speaker 1 Anyways, yes, D-O-P-P Dop Kit. Hey, why?

Speaker 1 Go ahead. Go ahead.
I was going to say, what happens in the morning when you...

Speaker 1 Like, I can't sleep. I'm constantly clearing my throat today.
Uh-huh. Does that mean I sleep in my joke here?

Speaker 3 Guys, real quick, the word was coined by leather worker Charles Doppelt, who patented the idea of Dops in 1919 and marketed them locally before landing a contract with the U.S. Army during WWII.

Speaker 2 And that he was a German?

Speaker 3 Leather worker. I think he was American.
Let's see.

Speaker 1 Well, it sounds German. More to come next episode.
Trust Doppel, D-O-P-P-E-L-T. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Now I'm looking at it, too. I also have the internet, Bennett.

Speaker 1 So.

Speaker 1 Congrats, guys. It's like when we get back, you know, we've brought this up before and people go, I did my own research.
Like, oh, you've got Google? Fuck off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 Takes like five seconds. You know?

Speaker 1 So last. Oh, sorry, Sean.
We were trying to get to some business. Sean's like, yeah, I know it takes five seconds.
So my story that I've got ready. No,

Speaker 1 I was

Speaker 1 actually

Speaker 1 serious about like the, I can't stop clearing my throat. I don't know why.
Does that mean I'm getting sick? I don't know.

Speaker 2 Or do you want to reschedule today's recording?

Speaker 1 No, no.

Speaker 2 It might be the smoke from the Canadian fires. I think that's the Toronto Maple Leaves fans still

Speaker 1 up there. What happened? Did we win? Dude, we don't need to be able to do that.
They're still burning stuff down.

Speaker 2 They're still shot.

Speaker 1 Shots fired over there.

Speaker 1 Are they not doing well?

Speaker 1 That's an understatement. It's been a minute.

Speaker 1 It's been a tough. I haven't mentioned it since.
It's been a while, but they lost again in another game seven, and it was really tough. Boy,

Speaker 1 I can't believe.

Speaker 2 I still haven't talked to you about it. I watched all three periods of you and Biz doing your commentary on that game

Speaker 2 with your blazers on.

Speaker 2 I can't. I mean, I sat there.
I had the clicker in my hand the whole time. Never punched it.
Just watched you two

Speaker 1 blather on.

Speaker 1 You know what the best part was? And I took a shot at you because I said, baby, it was supposed to be here. He's like literally a mile away.
And he's less than a mile away.

Speaker 2 Less than a mile. He was smiling at you saying, yeah, you know, he might even stop by during this.
And I was just like, laughing

Speaker 1 myself. I'm like, fucking hat, DJs.
Yeah. But, you know,

Speaker 1 the best part was they go, do you guys want to go do this in business? And I were like, yeah, let's do it.

Speaker 1 And we get there, we do the pregame, and then we go to this other studio to start this kind of alt cast thing. And then then just the dude goes in five, four, three.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, what do we, we don't, hey, everybody, we had no plan, you could tell.

Speaker 1 Oh,

Speaker 1 and then we had like

Speaker 2 literally watching the game along with the audience at home. That's funny, doing their own commentary.

Speaker 1 We had Charles Barkley kindly called in, he was amazing.

Speaker 1 He was hilarious. And then our buddy Al Michaelson,

Speaker 2 who is also amazing.

Speaker 1 Also, just amazing.

Speaker 2 Sorry, Sean, you think Charles Barkley's a singer?

Speaker 1 I always think he's the singer, right? Isn't there a singer named Charles Barkley? Narrows Barkley. Do you think it might have gone the other way?

Speaker 2 Oh, Narls Barkley. You think maybe Narls Barley?

Speaker 1 Like, do you think that the Arnold Palmer was... Do you think Arnold Palmer, the golfer, gave himself the name after the drink?

Speaker 1 Sweet Sean. I know.

Speaker 2 Hey, by the way, Sean, think about how sweet Sean is.

Speaker 2 Frannie, my eldest listener, she had a scavenger hunt last night, and I guess one of the boxes they had to check was get a picture with a celebrity. And Sean was nice enough to stay up until we...

Speaker 1 Introduce them to some celebrities? That's so nice.

Speaker 1 Right, that's 10.30, 10.45 or something.

Speaker 2 She drove over to your house with all of her friends and took a shot of you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm like, what's going on with your dad? Can you just take a shot with him?

Speaker 2 I guess I don't count.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it didn't count because now, did you go through the works before they got over there? Were you

Speaker 1 having your makeup all set? Check out that photo. It's horrible.
I look like I'm 95 years old. Oh, so you checked it.

Speaker 2 You said, let me see it.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I did it myself.

Speaker 1 Because, you know, when somebody stops and asks for a photo, which is so kind i always grab the phone i said let me take it because it takes me two seconds to open the phone otherwise it takes half an hour for them to go wait i got to find my i you know my phone icon or something like just give it to me and so i took it with all them because it's a scavenger hunt so you only have five seconds so i said everybody

Speaker 1 whoa whoa whoa i don't know that rule what are you talking about you're a scavenger hunt you got to get your thing and you got to go you got to get the thing on the list and then go

Speaker 1 so um But I had to hang out with them for like five, ten minutes because their friends were in another car. Anyway,

Speaker 1 who cares? And I took a photo myself and it didn't look great. but frannie's the sweetest i hope this is going to be in your book i mean

Speaker 2 that's rhythm you know you telling me that story about taking the grabbing everybody's phone and taking the picture yourself all the time and i immediately go to all the germs that i would be taking on my hands by touching everybody else's phone you know it's the dirtiest thing in your life your your your iphone i think your mouth is no it's dirtier than your toilet seat again i again i just want to point out are you are you watching people drop dead on the street or something because

Speaker 1 we're all fine no it's just it's just a gross factor i'm not worried about getting sick it's i did though but i did what i did franni texted me earlier in the day she's like are you gonna be up like about between 10 30 and i'm like yeah and um

Speaker 1 and then and i'm watching the osama bin laden documentary and i'm completely falling asleep

Speaker 1 so good and and

Speaker 1 yeah it's amazing oh really and it's so interesting and um and then i go i'm just falling asleep on the cushion i'm like scott i gotta go to sleep i'm gonna fall asleep and she's like we're here I was like, oh, God.

Speaker 1 And the doorbell rang. I freaked out.
And I went outside. And then my phone goes up at like one in the morning.
And she's like, are you still up? I want to retail.

Speaker 1 Because I think they needed something else.

Speaker 1 Really?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, no. And then I just texted her.
That's like the worst are you still up text you can get

Speaker 1 from Franny. On the scales of

Speaker 1 text. Yeah, it's not what you think.
It's, can we get a photo with you? Yeah, exactly. Maybe the photo was bad, but I was freaking out.
I hope she got, I hope she won. Do you know if she won?

Speaker 1 I have no idea.

Speaker 2 She hasn't surfaced yet. It's 9.40 this morning.

Speaker 1 Well, she should bet it like three in the morning. We should do a smartless scavenger hunt.
I would love that. I love a scavenger hunt.
I do too. That would be super fun.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 So how would that work? The three of us would be individually against one another?

Speaker 1 No, no, no. It's not for us.
It's for our fans. It's for, you know, for people who like listen to the podcast and that we endure and then we have like a whole.
Yeah. God, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 What's the prize?

Speaker 1 So you're so angry about that. A dop kit.
Adop kit. a dop.

Speaker 1 Nice.

Speaker 1 And because you wrapped it up with such a nice bow, Willie, we're going to move on to our guest today. Beautiful.
Oh, nice.

Speaker 2 Whose is it? Is it yours today, Shawnee?

Speaker 1 This is a delicious segue. Oh, you guys are going to love this.
It's so exciting.

Speaker 1 He got his first big break by tagging along to a friend's audition and improvising his way into the role. It was a big movie.

Speaker 1 He has such a thick Liverpool accent that fans don't often believe it's real. He used to tear up the streets as a teenage breakdancer.
So did I.

Speaker 1 And he's been punched, stabbed, and screamed at more in more scenes than I can count. But somehow he's the most gentle guy in the room.

Speaker 1 I met him once on his native soil, the UK, and I've been a fan ever since. It's the ridiculously talented and allegedly intimidating Stephen Graham.
Hey, Cindy there.

Speaker 1 That's happening.

Speaker 1 That is good. Good morning.
Look at that sweet face who would be first shit out of the shit. I was sure.
That was a world-class reveal. It was just so dramatic.
It was great. And oftentimes,

Speaker 1 that was very good.

Speaker 2 Now, Will, do you want to get started on the Liverpool football club?

Speaker 1 No, no, we're going to get it out of the way. We're going to end on that.
We're going to end on the glory on Liverpool. Okay.
Because I'm a massive supporter, Stephen. A massive supporter.

Speaker 1 So we'll get it.

Speaker 4 Nice, yeah. Great.

Speaker 4 Can I jump in on the scavenger hunt thing?

Speaker 1 Please go nice.

Speaker 4 I was at a mate's dude because we were in LA for a little bit.

Speaker 2 I heard about this because my wife was there at Guy's house, right?

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Guy Richie?

Speaker 1 Close.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Let him do it.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 Go ahead. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
My wife's Amanda. Amanda was there.

Speaker 2 She was probably the one that made your ears bleed just a little bit when you were wondering.

Speaker 1 No, she was talking quietly in the corner with somebody holding their arm. Oh, yeah.
Before it was, yeah, her.

Speaker 4 Yeah, she was lovingly. What's the story, Stephen?

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 4 During the day, a friend, we went to his sister. She graduated.

Speaker 1 Correct.

Speaker 4 And she was telling us about her scavenger hunt that she was going on.

Speaker 1 And I'll tell you what,

Speaker 4 it was a bit risky, some of the stuff that they get really high points for.

Speaker 1 Oh, really? Like, what?

Speaker 4 I mean, eating a bagel off a man's penis.

Speaker 1 No way. Not risking me up on that, Jason.
Isn't that true? Jason, did you win that? Did you win that one, Jason?

Speaker 2 Well, you know, you need to get a unit that'll actually fit inside that hole.

Speaker 1 I just had that for breakfast today.

Speaker 2 wait jason amanda was doing this what's happening yeah it was a little bit more of a bialy um for me but um wait that's crazy is that real like crazy like that well here at this party right stephen uh this was also get a picture with a celebrity and at your party there were there were some real celebrities there sean all due respect sure now i get it we're talking about uh you know the tops in the business like steven and you know and there was a whole group photo so they got major points I'm assuming yeah because we went outside and took a photo it was yeah but it but it was just when they were explaining to us in the in the morning what kind of things actually happen and how many points you get for certain things it just got rather disgusting I thought yeah really

Speaker 1 my elder said to me when he was doing his a couple weeks ago he said hey can I get my nose pierced because I'll get massive and I was like no what

Speaker 4 really get your nose pierced for points yeah I think one of the funniest ones was if you make out with one of the parents.

Speaker 1 Oh, parents.

Speaker 2 Myself wrote that in.

Speaker 1 You can't do that.

Speaker 1 Forensic handwriting check for Jason on that one.

Speaker 4 And there was also to drink a shot of certain bodily fluids as well.

Speaker 1 Wow. No.
Yeah. It was disgusting.
Jesus.

Speaker 4 I thought, what the fuck are these young people doing these days? I know.

Speaker 1 Wait, so Stephen, I'm an idiot. This is somebody here in LA's house's daughter.

Speaker 4 No, no, no, no. No, it was a friend's sister who was telling me about and my sister were telling us about what it was.

Speaker 2 Now, do you have kids, Stephen?

Speaker 4 I do, yeah. And thank God, mine, don't do any of this scavenger hunts.

Speaker 1 Well, hang on.

Speaker 2 Are they old enough yet? How old are they?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Alfie's 18 and Grace is 20.

Speaker 2 And so you're saying

Speaker 2 they never did anything like this in high school?

Speaker 4 We just don't have that kind of behavior where I come from, Jason.

Speaker 1 That's normal. That's normal.

Speaker 2 I don't think they're being honest with you, Stephen.

Speaker 4 Jason,

Speaker 4 one of the major things my children are is honest. Now, we do the Mooney, which is like stick your ass out of a window.
That's as far as we go.

Speaker 1 Would you ever do or against a window, which is a pressed ham? Well,

Speaker 4 that was always on a bus, though.

Speaker 1 That was on a bus.

Speaker 1 On a bus move. That was on a bus, yeah.
You do that one on a bus.

Speaker 4 But then the worst thing was you do it, and then the car that you did it to would pull alongside you later on in the traffic.

Speaker 1 And yeah, we used to do that when we go to football.

Speaker 2 What would be the name if you press it against the window and you spread it? What would be the name there? God,

Speaker 1 sliced hand. Yeah, there you go.
Thanks. That's what I'm here for.
Steven, first of all, thanks for being here. By the way, I just found out this morning, I found this out this morning.

Speaker 1 First of all, congrats on your recent Gotham Award. And Adolescence is the second most watched show of all time on Netflix.
That's awesome. Yeah, that's amazing.
That's crazy.

Speaker 2 That's well deserved.

Speaker 1 What an accomplishment. I mean, truly, I mean,

Speaker 1 and I know you've talked about this a lot because I've seen it out there and I've, and I watched the show.

Speaker 1 It's fantastic. You're fantastic.
Also, the co-creator of the show,

Speaker 1 which is no small feat. I mean, for people to understand,

Speaker 1 you know, they might

Speaker 1 see the credit and the creator, and you think, like, okay, well, he's got that's just another hat.

Speaker 1 It's the amount of work and thought and years and preparation that goes into just being the creator of the show, and then on top of being in it, and then on top of that, doing it, shooting it all in effect, live in one shot is so impressive.

Speaker 1 So I, I, and I know you've talked ad nauseum about that aspect of doing it, but for people to really understand what it takes to pull off doing an entire episode, each episode of that program live as if it were happening in, well, it was happening in real time.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And not just in one location, but

Speaker 1 getting into vehicles and moving to different locations. Everything that goes in that, the preparation that must have gone into that.

Speaker 1 When you came up with the idea of the show, was that part and parcel with it? Was it like, we're going to do this show, tell this story, and we're going to do it this way?

Speaker 4 Well, to be honest with you,

Speaker 4 we did a the whole thing kind of began with me doing a favor for a friend, actually.

Speaker 4 My mate, Phil Barantini, he was an actor, and he just, one day, he just phoned me up and he said, Look, I really want to direct.

Speaker 4 Would you help me out in being a short film? And I said, no,

Speaker 1 which is what you should do. I said, No.

Speaker 4 He was like, I went, Well, go make your first short film, and then we'll have a look, and then we'll talk again.

Speaker 1 I don't want to be part of the experiment,

Speaker 4 but of course, but it's also, Jay, you know, it's that kind of fight. Well, show me what you can do, Fitz.

Speaker 1 Exactly.

Speaker 4 Yeah, so he did. He went and he made this beautiful.
Oh, also, though, he was asking me if I would play the trainer to a boxer. And the lad

Speaker 4 who was going to play the main role was a boxer and an actor. And I said, Well,

Speaker 4 doesn't robbie have a trainer and he was like yeah i was like well just use robbie's real trainer right and he was like well i went because he knows what he's doing i said has he got a good face he went he went yeah he looks great i went well cast him then yeah he's like i got shit to do that's a really good idea i was like yeah just use him they've got a relationship so we did anyway and it was really good but to get to the point Matt, who he'd met, the DOP, had this glorious idea of doing a short film in one take, but setting it in a restaurant.

Speaker 4 So again, Phil said, Look, Matt, I had this wonderful idea. I think it'd be really good because Phil used to work in the restaurant industry.
He was a chef for a long time.

Speaker 4 And it was just this concept about

Speaker 4 a shift at work and this man going through a bit of, you know, lots of troubles at home and trying to navigate that in work. And also, he has his own addictions and stuff.

Speaker 4 So it was like, look, we'll shoot it in 22 minutes. That's how long the takes going to be.
And I was like, that sounds great. How many days? And he went, five.
I said, I'll give you three.

Speaker 1 He was like, oh, okay.

Speaker 4 I went, we can shoot it in three. So we did.
We shot it in three. And the primary purpose of it was to try and use it as a calling card to get Phil an agent.
So I give it to my agent.

Speaker 4 She sent it around the office. And literally, within four to five days, he was having meetings.
And he then got his agent, Jago. And that was how it happened.

Speaker 4 So it was all starting to do a favor for a friend. And then Jago said, why don't we turn this into a feature? So we did a little indie film called Boiling Point.

Speaker 4 And just to go to that prop, that you know, that you never know what can happen from these things, as we all know with this industry, you just don't know. Cut to

Speaker 4 three years down the line, four years down the line, was sat at BAFTA

Speaker 4 and films nominated for best actor, the films up for best British film. I'm nominated alongside Will Smith and Leonardo DiCaprio and

Speaker 4 Benedict Cumberbatch, all for doing a mate a favor. Wow.
And And so we had proof of concept with that particular piece. Sure.

Speaker 4 And then we were asked if we would be interested in turning it into a television show. And that's basically how it all began.

Speaker 2 So then, so then Boiling Point is similar to the story in Adolescence?

Speaker 4 It's a completely different story, but it's all shot in that one-take format. And that's more controlled.
It's an environment. It's all set in a restaurant,

Speaker 4 in a kitchen, and in a restaurant. And it's this one particular shift.
And I think the film is an hour and maybe an hour and 15.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 2 the thinking behind

Speaker 2 the creative effect that you guys

Speaker 2 were aiming for by having it all intact in one take and not distracting the audience with any cuts whatsoever or coverage or anything like that

Speaker 2 was what? Did you guys ever kind of put words to

Speaker 2 the purpose behind only one take?

Speaker 2 Aside from just like the incredible rush, the creative challenge challenge of that.

Speaker 4 I think that was that was it, basically, Jason, to be honest with you. It's that kind of trying to grab the audience's attention straight away.

Speaker 4 And you have kids, I have kids, and you know, we live in an age where,

Speaker 4 I mean, I don't know if

Speaker 4 we'll be watching a film, but yet they're still looking at the phones.

Speaker 4 And it's kind of like putting that down. We're trying to watch a film in many ways.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 So it was that wanting to grab the audience's attention, but also make sure that it wasn't just a gimmick shot. And hopefully, you know, that's what we achieved.
But the movement of

Speaker 4 the camera perpetuates the story.

Speaker 4 So, there's kind of like little things that we came up straight away with. Matt decided that we could never just move the camera when it doesn't have a purpose to move.

Speaker 4 So, what that does then, as well, is that kind of helps you, you know,

Speaker 4 it's like we all jump on a train and then we don't get off until we finish.

Speaker 1 But for people to appreciate, and we all sort of work in this meeting, so we understand, but to really appreciate the difficulty,

Speaker 1 not just the closing of the roads, not just the

Speaker 1 hiding crew in camera and all that kind of stuff, but the light changes, for instance. By the way, there is that, am I wrong?

Speaker 1 I'm like, did I imagine it? There were light changes when

Speaker 1 your son,

Speaker 1 the actor's name, is it Owen?

Speaker 4 Owen Cooper, yeah.

Speaker 1 Owen Cooper, who's brilliant.

Speaker 1 Owen Cooper, when he gets moody, did the light darken in those moments? Am I right about that? Or is that obvious?

Speaker 4 No, that was really that that was very subtle and that was also a decision that that Mark kind of made right at the very beginning there's there's moments where it does subtly change and Phil wanted that concept that psychological aspect of of it just changing slightly dramatically within the cell think was that a lighting changing yeah was that a lighting cue or was it an iris ride um it's a lighting cue kind of it's a lighting cue within the police station within the cell when he's when he's brought into the city I mean think about that JB I mean think about making that call so you're doing all that stuff you have all these different and then in the moment you've got to get it right and you have there's a a basically a lighting queue in the middle of it.

Speaker 1 There's so many elements happening at once.

Speaker 4 The logistics.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Logistics.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Today's episode is sponsored by Ashley. They don't just sell incredible furniture, they're also making an impact in vulnerable communities.

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Speaker 1 You know, partnering with Ashley in our live show, first of all, they just made our set look really good.

Speaker 1 They made us really comfortable and they kind of made us look legit because otherwise it would have been, you know, milk crates and,

Speaker 1 you know, cardboard boxes. And Ashley made it look like a real, kind of looked like a living room, made it really comfortable, made our guest, John Mayer, really comfortable.

Speaker 1 And then he thought that maybe we're professional, we're not just a bunch of clowns. To be honest, there was a point where I got so comfortable, I forgot that I was in front of an audience.

Speaker 1 I was sitting back on that nice Ashley couch and I was just hanging out with my buds in my living room.

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Speaker 1 Academy Award winner Billy Bob Thornton is back as Tommy Norris, facing higher stakes than ever.

Speaker 1 With an all-star cast including Demi Moore, Andy Garcia, and Sam Elliott, tensions rise as Tommy and Camille Miller fight to control M.Tech's oil.

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Speaker 2 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 And so the obvious question which I had, which how many takes did you do? And like, I mean, I'd be so afraid to be the one to screw it up.

Speaker 4 Well, the beauty of it, I mean, and it was also, look, it was beautifully written by Jack, Jack Thorne, our wonderful writer, who constructs the human condition so beautifully and so amazingly.

Speaker 4 And we had that kind of discussion right at the very beginning what it was going to be and how we were going to try to put this story across without pointing any fingers, but it's just that kind of accountability of parents.

Speaker 4 You know, maybe the parents are accountable.

Speaker 4 There's the school system, the education system, the society and the community where they live and also the government.

Speaker 4 And also on top of that, you know, you have the internet, which none of us had when we were kids. So we've never had...
to navigate that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 You know, if an incident happened in school, it was kind of finished by the end of when the bell went and then you you'd pick it up again the next day hopefully it didn't continue too much but today if anything happens on their phone straight away it can carry on so it's that perpetual kind of fear that some of these kids live in do you know what i mean with incidents happening in school but to go back to that it was more that kind of to navigate it the way we did um and make sure that everything is bang on we did it was a different process so you spend the first week just working through the script which we never have that luxury luxury, do we?

Speaker 4 We never have that luxury to be on set with the writer and the director and just discuss the words.

Speaker 4 Yeah, well, that's exactly what it is, Sean. It's that, you know, it's that beautiful process of being a theater company and having this brand new script.
So we take it to pieces.

Speaker 4 It's kind of, and I don't mean to be pretentious, but it's kind of like analyzing every single word like you would a Chekhov play and understanding the importance of it and why it's there and why it's being said.

Speaker 4 So we spend that week just immersed in it as the actors and the company.

Speaker 4 And then the second week, we spend the whole week rehearsing with the camera team, the sound department, the ADs, like you said, whether they were dressed in police uniforms or, you know, teachers in the school.

Speaker 4 So we then spend all of that week having a whole dress rehearsal. And by the end of that week, by that following Friday, we'll go for a little take.
We'll see what happens.

Speaker 4 And then when you get back in on the Monday, we do... we go for two takes a day.

Speaker 4 So you do one in the morning, about half 10,

Speaker 4 have lunch, reset, and then come back again in the afternoon. So it's a beautiful experience.
So ultimately, we were looking at hopefully trying to get 10 takes by the end of the week.

Speaker 4 But episodes two,

Speaker 4 three, and four were all the final take of each one. So it was that final Friday.
So I think take

Speaker 4 episode

Speaker 4 two was take

Speaker 1 14.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 4 And it was the only time that the drone actually got attached to the the camera got attached to the drone it flew up i don't know if you remember that in the school where it it flies up in the air and then it comes down and then it gets taken by the camera department and it comes to where i'm stood with the flowers

Speaker 4 now imagine that though will this is i mean the wind had been so we don't we didn't have a take at all so it's the final friday afternoon and it's all going great and i'm sat in the i'm sat in the i'm sat in the van

Speaker 4 Beating an executive to producer, listening to Sarah on the radio.

Speaker 4 Okay, go. So we've got the kids coming out of the thing, and it's, and I'm listening to it all, and it's like, okay, that's good, that's good.
And it's like, okay, drone's attached, the drone's up.

Speaker 4 And I'm like sitting there going, okay, so the drone's up. And then I see it.
And I see the drone. I'm like, oh, wow.
Okay, so the drone. And then I see the van coming around the corner.

Speaker 4 I see all the fellas jump out the van. I see Matt run over to the...
as the drone, they catch the drone. Matt takes the camera and then I go,

Speaker 4 oh shit, I'm in it. Oh my God.

Speaker 1 And then I've got,

Speaker 1 yeah,

Speaker 4 I've remembered I was in it. And I've grabbed the flowers and composed myself and then I've opened the door and got out.

Speaker 1 How about that?

Speaker 4 And we managed to get that take, but the picture went off when the drone was attached. So everybody back at base had no idea that we'd completed the scene.

Speaker 1 Right, right. They were just holding the panel.
They were just panicking. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's so, I mean, just aside from just all the logistics, the sequencing, and all the planning, and all that stuff,

Speaker 2 the fun of that, and the excitement of that. But specifically for this subject matter and

Speaker 2 the way that the scripts are constructed and this linear storytelling, it's A goes to B, goes to C, goes to D.

Speaker 2 And you're, as you said, on a train and you never get off, you're never tapped on the shoulder by an edit and knocked out of your trance. You're staying in this one

Speaker 2 shot and you're

Speaker 2 stuck in the best sense of the word and you can't stop watching. And

Speaker 2 it's so propulsive.

Speaker 1 And it's just it's it's a it's a it's a it's such a perfect concept to use this device with jb and i i'll add to that which is that i think that linear storytelling is is something that that we kind of take for granted and and don't we sort of try to get away from and try to dress stuff up and there is something because of the way that you told it and and it is there is no cut to distract you but also because it's happening in real time

Speaker 1 you feel less like you're watching it and more like you're in it. Yeah, exactly.
Right, right. And so it's much more immersive in that way.
You feel like you're,

Speaker 1 do you know what I mean? You're not, it's not performative. It's not something that

Speaker 1 you're not observing. You're actually in it.

Speaker 2 Yeah,

Speaker 2 and given the subject matter, it's very

Speaker 1 visceral.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you're so affected. It's like you just step on the audience's neck and you don't get off.

Speaker 1 It's outstanding.

Speaker 4 Thank you very much. They're lovely things for you both to say.
That was kind of one of the things we thought of at the very beginning.

Speaker 4 And like I say, Jack's one of my favorite writers of all time He's a wonderful man I've worked with him six times and Jack's kind of idea as we'd create the story was to to grab the audience But it also it he said what it gave him as a writer was a lot of freedom Because a writer is totally you know with writing that script He's totally in kind of control of not just what the story is but also the rhythm of how it moves and how it's set and the kind of pace of it yeah the music of it and then you're just amazed like you said it's that kind of voyeuristic element but as well conventionally, you know, the story would be told, but it'd be slightly disjointed and you could go to any point in time.

Speaker 4 But when I said from the very beginning, look, this goes over 13 months, and we're just going to grab the audience four times in this story, but it's going to be for an hour.

Speaker 4 And we allow the other, I think what we did as well was like, you know, treating the audience with respect and with intelligence, let them fill in the gaps.

Speaker 4 And it doesn't have the answers. And it wasn't open.

Speaker 2 And as an actor, was it exciting to be inside of

Speaker 2 the take, of the one hour, knowing that

Speaker 2 no one can get to you, just like theater. So like between action and cut, you're dictating the pace, the rhythm, the timing, everything.

Speaker 2 It'll never be changed. It'll never be manipulated by an editor's choice or a director's choice or

Speaker 2 a scene won't be cut.

Speaker 2 So

Speaker 1 all of your

Speaker 2 ideas about how you're going to arc out your performance is completely in your control.

Speaker 1 Well, you work it out beforehand, though.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but still, but like each, you say you do this multiple times.

Speaker 1 Once it's rolling.

Speaker 2 Yeah, exactly. So each take can be completely different.
I mean, everybody has to hit their marks because of all the technical

Speaker 2 sequencing, but there's still, there's just performance stuff you know is going to be married to this particular version of this episode.

Speaker 4 This particular take will always be my reaction to her line is always going to be that it's not going to be taken from take two married to her reading in take seven like it's all it's it's all unique to that one piece completely cool yeah yeah you've hit the nail on the head because you know as we all know when you perform there's you we're not in control of the choices that get made yeah um which which we all understand and that's very frankenstein yeah yeah completely they take the little bits like you just perfectly described but with the process of this and again you know back in Sean as well we have that wonderful rehearsal process like we would with a play.

Speaker 4 But then you're right, on the day, no take was identical to the others because

Speaker 4 what it does, and again, I don't, look, I'm a working class kid from Liverpool, do you know what I mean? I can't sound pretentious.

Speaker 1 By the way,

Speaker 1 you never run the risk of sounding pretentious.

Speaker 1 Just for clarity. All right, all right, good.

Speaker 4 But it's, and now give me a moment because I may do, but it's the most zen I've ever felt as an actor. And it also puts you right in that place that you're doing.

Speaker 1 You did do that. You did do it.
You did do it.

Speaker 4 That's what my microphone's leading on.

Speaker 1 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 4 So it's not, I'm just saying it for shits and giggles.

Speaker 1 That's what it's

Speaker 4 so.

Speaker 4 In the same respect, it's that kind of, you know, you're completely, like you said, Will, it's that immersive experience for the audience, but picking up on you, Jay, it is for the actor because you have to be present, truly present.

Speaker 4 And what it does is, to me, acting is all about listening and reacting.

Speaker 1 Oh, I know. Do you know what I mean? So

Speaker 4 you're constantly listening and reacting to

Speaker 4 what's being.

Speaker 1 Well, you know, somebody, as you know, Steven, I had this discussion with somebody very recently. They said, oh, is it hard to memorize lines? I was talking about this, having lots of dialogue.

Speaker 1 And Jay, I know you just came up with something where you had a lot of dialogue.

Speaker 1 And the truth is, as we all know, it's not hard when if you're present and the person says something to you, what you're going to say next makes sense to them.

Speaker 1 You don't have to memorize because it makes sense what you should say. Yeah, if the writing's good, you know what I mean? If the writing's good, if the writing's good, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 Uh, but that's what I love about your process about like it being like theater.

Speaker 1 You can discuss, like, I don't know that I would say, say that, I would say, I feel like this would make more sense, and that collaborative experience probably made it all the better. Completely,

Speaker 1 yeah. Tell me about, wait, so I want to talk about breakdancing.
First of all, what's scouse? So, I like scouse is what

Speaker 1 is that

Speaker 4 scout is like a terminology for the particular type of person who comes from Liverpool.

Speaker 2 It's like a subset of.

Speaker 4 Well, it's like, you know, if you're from Liverpool, you're called a Scoutser. If you're from Newcastle, you're called a Geordie.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay.

Speaker 4 If you're from London, you know, you used to be called a Cockney. Do you know what I mean? Oh, right, right, right.

Speaker 4 And if you're from Scotland, you're called a Jock.

Speaker 1 Why?

Speaker 1 So it's different.

Speaker 2 Where did all these come from?

Speaker 1 Like, if you're from Beverly Hills, you're called the douche. Right.

Speaker 1 So, no, it is. So, yeah, Scouser is

Speaker 4 someone who comes from Liverpool.

Speaker 1 Who's like a true Liverpuddian who has a, you know, who's right?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, that's it. You know, working class, full.

Speaker 1 Why do people think you're faking the accent? When I read like, what?

Speaker 4 Oh, he spoke so to me.

Speaker 1 It's so weird. I don't know.

Speaker 1 I've never heard that one. All right.
Tell me about breakdancing because I did it too, and I would, I would absorb the pain and then walk away like, that was really fun, but I'd be in so much pain.

Speaker 1 Like, I never did the the head spins or anything but I constantly was break dancing it was just it was

Speaker 1 kids because you did it in Liverpool and I did it like I was like I'm like when I read that I was like I did that too that's so crazy where was you when you did your breakdancing oh anywhere anywhere there's a mall fucking dinner theater

Speaker 4 anywhere there there was a piece of cardboard i would just go watch this and do the well we used to we we even bought lino so you you know the lino that people used to put in the kitchens back in the 80s yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 4 We used to carry out our own bit of Lino.

Speaker 4 Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, get all blasted, and uh, it was like back in the days of Electro 7 and Grandmaster Flash and Melly Merlin, the Furious Five, and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 4 And we just, yeah, I don't know, it was just this whole thing that just popped up.

Speaker 4 Obviously, it came over from America and it ended up in a little town where I'm from, Kirby, and we used to go and do it in the town center.

Speaker 4 We'd, I don't even, because we couldn't watch videos or nothing like that to work out what they were doing. Yeah, so I don't even know how we live.
I think it's got past.

Speaker 1 But now it's an Olympic sport.

Speaker 1 Isn't that funny? Yeah, you know, because it is.

Speaker 4 It's amazing, isn't it?

Speaker 2 How were the outfits? Were you proud of your outfits and your hairdos?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I used to have a shine. I had a shiny shell suit back in the day.
Yeah, something that you could spin on. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Now, the parachute pants and like, yeah,

Speaker 2 Sean, Sean, were you in like an Adidas track suit or were you like MC Hammer pants?

Speaker 1 No, no, but I did have parachute pants because I thought they were really cool. Yeah.

Speaker 4 I used to have a really lovely velor Adidas. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Oh, nice. Valor.
You have to do it. Wear that straight to bed.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So you grew up in Liverpool or outside of Liverpool. Kirkby.
Where's Kirkby?

Speaker 4 Kirby. It's just kind of like 35 minutes from the city centre.

Speaker 1 Do you know

Speaker 1 Stephen? You must know John Bishop.

Speaker 4 Not personally, but I've

Speaker 4 no, I've never met. I've met him a couple of times socially, but I don't know him personally.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 2 That's the guy you did the film that's based on, Willie?

Speaker 1 Yes, who's also

Speaker 1 a scouser. Yeah, whose film that we did is based on his life, yeah, his story.

Speaker 4 When's this film coming out?

Speaker 1 But I thought you would.

Speaker 1 Fairly soon. Yeah, we just, I met John by chance, and he told me a story of how he became a stand-up comedian, which is a really kind of an interesting story.
And he kind of by mistake,

Speaker 1 and he was going,

Speaker 1 he was separated from his wife and they were getting divorced. And he went to

Speaker 1 do stand-up. He went to go for a drink, and they were charging a cover because it was open mic night.

Speaker 1 And he put his name down just so he could get in, and they called him, and he had a few, and he went up and just started doing stand-up.

Speaker 1 And then it was quite cathartic, and he started going back, and he didn't tell anybody. And that's how he got into stand-up.

Speaker 2 Well, did you ever discuss doing it as him and doing the whole Liverpool accent and anything?

Speaker 1 Not really, because we didn't want it to be too much, you know, too like Billy Elliott or Fulmonty. You know what I mean? Like, all due respect to those movies.
We just wanted to tell a difference.

Speaker 1 So we said it in New York, Stephen. And

Speaker 1 I wrote it with an Englishman with Mark Chappell and Bradley Cooper directed, and Bradley's in it with me as well.

Speaker 2 Will, do you think you could do a Liverpool accent?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you could. No, it's tough.

Speaker 4 It's a tricky one. It is quite tricky.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because you hear me say, it's a tricky one. Like, there's a kind of like an almost like a.

Speaker 4 See, but then he sounds a little bit like Miss Doubtfire, there.

Speaker 1 It's a tricky one, children. Let's go together.
No, no, no, no, we don't speak like that.

Speaker 4 It's a very difficult accent.

Speaker 1 That's why I just kind of leave it alone that one.

Speaker 2 It sounds like there's a little bit of Scottish in there.

Speaker 2 Is Liverpool North?

Speaker 4 Yes. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 4 And it's kind of, I think it's an amalgamation of Irish, Scottish, but also kind of because of the docks and the pollution, it's kind of to do with nasal and throat kind of extractions or whatever.

Speaker 4 Do you know what I mean? Will's got that too. There's a science behind it.

Speaker 1 There are a lot of Irish people who immigrated to Liverpool.

Speaker 1 Yeah, because it sounds a little bit Irish.

Speaker 4 Well, a lot of scouters, I say scout is scouters are just lazy artists that couldn't be asked going through America. When the boat came, they just stayed at Liverpool and didn't move forward.

Speaker 4 Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 So it's kind of

Speaker 2 the fellas in the Beatles, did they have famously thick Liverpool accents?

Speaker 4 But back then, the accents were slightly different. Really? And obviously, it's changed.

Speaker 1 But they, yeah,

Speaker 4 all of them, Paul, Ringo, Leo and George, Leon, George, obviously, they all have that Liverpool accent. But theirs was a lot more kind of singy at the time.
Do you know what what I mean?

Speaker 1 Right, right.

Speaker 4 It's more melodical and like nice little notes and things.

Speaker 1 That's the go-to when anybody does an impression of a Liverpool accent.

Speaker 1 So, wait, so you, so growing up there, what, what was your window to want to be an actor when you were breakdancing? You're like, wait, if I'm not a breakdancer, I'm going to be a...

Speaker 4 For me,

Speaker 4 it was really interesting because when I was about, I think, 11, we were doing a play in school.

Speaker 4 And across the road from my nana's house, a wonderful man called Drew Schofield lived there. And he was an actor, and he was on television.

Speaker 4 And he was on a show called Scully, which was really popular. And that was about a young man who had this dream and this fantasy of playing for Liverpool.
And he was the lead role in that.

Speaker 4 And he lived across the road from my nana's house.

Speaker 4 And no one in my family was ever into the arts or anything like that. You know what I mean? Me and my dad used to go to gallery and stuff like that and everything.
And heavily into films.

Speaker 4 My dad got me right into films when I was a young lad, but no one had done anything like that. But I could see Drew across the road and he was on the telly every week.

Speaker 4 So it made me realize that it was a possibility.

Speaker 4 And he came to watch a play we did in school. His nephew was in the same play.
And at the end of it, he said to my mum and dad, he said, look, I think Stephen's really talented.

Speaker 4 You should look at maybe taking him to a youth theater or something.

Speaker 4 Thank God, you know what I mean? I did. I went to the Everyman Youth Theatre, and that's kind of where it all started.

Speaker 2 Did you ever think along the way in high school,

Speaker 2 maybe I should

Speaker 2 do my studies in such a way where I can get into a college and maybe study up on another career? Was there ever a backup?

Speaker 4 There wasn't, but there was also that kind of thing.

Speaker 4 My intention was to go to university and, you know,

Speaker 4 if I couldn't make it as an actor, but give it a go, then I would hopefully fall into being a teacher.

Speaker 4 That was kind of the other role I was looking at and the other way of going. Really?

Speaker 2 Like an elementary teacher that teaches all subjects or specializing in one in high school?

Speaker 4 Teaching drama in like

Speaker 4 a high school, do you know what I mean? Because over here we have TCSEs and stuff and that kind of, so that's secondary school,

Speaker 4 being a drama teacher, that was another possibility that I looked at. Or if not, believe it or not, I wanted to be a fireman.

Speaker 1 Yeah. Well, sure, why not? Same.

Speaker 1 Now, wait, but this is pretty wild. Like, I had me.
You with the fireman? Yeah.

Speaker 1 With the fireman. No, no, no.
It's fire.

Speaker 2 It's the fireman and village people.

Speaker 1 That guy.

Speaker 1 That's right. I keep forgetting that's what it is.

Speaker 1 Wait, your dad, your biological dad was Jamaican.

Speaker 4 My granddad was from Jamaica, yeah.

Speaker 1 And your stepdad, African-American.

Speaker 4 Yes, yes, Pops.

Speaker 1 That's awesome. That's a family.

Speaker 4 Yeah.

Speaker 4 Pops, you know, has been there since I was 10, so he's the man that's raised me. He's my father.

Speaker 1 And you ever talk to your biological dad? I mean, when he was.

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, we, you know, we haven't spoken for a while. There's no animosity there, you know, I suppose kind of through that.

Speaker 2 But he didn't, he didn't.

Speaker 1 Sean, are you familiar with this area? Yes, yes. Oh, God, hang on.
I got to get that. Dad calling.
One second.

Speaker 1 Hello.

Speaker 4 Sometimes you grow apart, don't you? You know what I mean? In many ways.

Speaker 1 Yeah, or sometimes you just drive away.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, exactly. That's the running joke, Stephen, that my dad left when I was five.
Anyway, so

Speaker 1 okay, so, and you're, and you have siblings, and

Speaker 4 did he really leave when he was fired?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, he spun the wheels.

Speaker 1 He just

Speaker 2 threw it and drive, and there was a screen.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they didn't see any warning signs. I mean, other than he bought a sports car, a two-seater sports car, a flat camp.
Wait a minute.

Speaker 4 Well, let's be serious for a second.

Speaker 4 Did he say, I'm just going to go to shop? I'll be back in a minute.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm going to get some milk. No,

Speaker 1 he was in a Korean War, and he came back and he married. The Korean War or the Korean War? The Korean War.

Speaker 1 he was in the in the army and then he came back and he married my mom and had five kids and this said this isn't for me back to Korea yeah

Speaker 1 I don't know where I don't know

Speaker 2 I'd rather be back in a war theater than be part of this

Speaker 4 so we hang on so

Speaker 1 five yeah yeah and then he made the decision to fuck off yeah yeah wow

Speaker 1 selfish bastard if you spend a lot of time with sean it is you'll it'll make sense.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, wait, wait, Sean, what number are you within that five?

Speaker 1 Five. What, what?

Speaker 4 What number are you within that five? Oh, I'm the youngest.

Speaker 1 I'm the youngest. Yeah, he's the one that really sealed the deal.

Speaker 4 Fuck me. Well, he stayed for the first four, Sean.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you were the one, I'm sorry for

Speaker 1 the bang on the money there.

Speaker 4 I mean, he put up with four and he was around. As soon as you came, it was like, get that fuck out of here.

Speaker 1 Sean, Sean. Sean, do you think it was the break dancing? Do you think the money made over the beatle?

Speaker 1 I ain't raising any kid that does that.

Speaker 4 Sean, you really were the straw that broke the camel's back, weren't you?

Speaker 1 I really was. Oh,

Speaker 1 Sean.

Speaker 4 You get a lot of therapy now, though, Sean.

Speaker 1 God, I love it. Totally, I love it.
Yeah, you know what? I got to say, of all the jokes that we do about it,

Speaker 1 Sean is so in front of this trauma, if you will, in a way that you talk about it in such a very healthy way, which is why we do joke about it.

Speaker 1 For our listeners, because sometimes people are like, man, you guys are really rough on Sean. No, I mean, the way that we deal with stuff, all of us, is by laughing about it.
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 And it's earned laughter because you've been through all the processing and all the therapy.

Speaker 1 And now you landed in the laughter. And I don't know, Steven, I grew up Irish Catholic, so we stuffed everything.

Speaker 1 So my therapy is to talk about the shit that I wasn't allowed to talk about when I was a kid. Exactly.
And so it feels good to do. That's why I talk about my mom's fake eye.
Anyway, Steven.

Speaker 2 Yeah, so we can move over to the mother now, with just the fake eyeball.

Speaker 1 Pad Nause and we were talking about it. Steve is just like, what?

Speaker 1 His sister, we were on tour, and his sister brought the eyeball out on stage and opened it in a box and stuff. And we took it out.

Speaker 1 It was a lot of fun. Steven doesn't know whether we're kidding or

Speaker 1 it's true.

Speaker 4 So your mom had a fake eyeball?

Speaker 1 Yeah. We were never allowed to ask about it.

Speaker 1 Except for that. Well, that's true.
It was a glass eye then. Yeah, it was a glass eye.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How did she lose it? Nobody knows.
She still can't find it.

Speaker 1 She had cancer when she was two years old. And so they had to take her eyeball out.

Speaker 1 Anyways, hilarious story

Speaker 1 is your mom still alive uh i nobody knows again no she passed away no but the eye is

Speaker 1 no she um she passed away oh god six years ago maybe seven years ago anyway um i want to talk the irony that you don't remember and that uh she well i know she dropped it was january of 2021 no 2019 maybe yeah yeah yeah but look how well balanced you are look at whatever is it's you're a nice young boy.

Speaker 1 No, you're not a mess. I mean it.
The way that you talk about it, that you're so open about it and that you have come out the other side of this JB said and done all the work. It is very healthy.

Speaker 1 Well, inspiring. To be honest, it is inspiring.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 Wait, so you had brothers and sisters growing up, yes? And were they interested in what you did or no?

Speaker 4 Not really, no.

Speaker 1 They don't do anything near what you do.

Speaker 4 My life's very complicated because with that biological father, similar to yours, he went off and he had four children to four different women.

Speaker 4 Um, so yeah, but but you know, look, everyone is their own. I'm all right now, I'm out the other side of it.

Speaker 2 Are you an only child from uh from no?

Speaker 4 I'm not because my mum and pops they had Nathan, who there's a 20-year gap between me and Nathan, older or younger, he's my little brother.

Speaker 4 I'm 20 years older than him. My mum had me when she was 20, and she had our kid when she was 40.

Speaker 4 Um, wow, so it was the beauty of that, though, is I was I had all my my time with my mum, who, God bless her soul, I adored, and all that time with Pops, who, you know, I love to bits, who raised me.

Speaker 4 Like I said, you know, he taught me about my history, Marcus Garvey, Malcolm X, Toussaint Lobucha, all of those things about my historical, you know, background and where my origins are from.

Speaker 4 So I was given all of that beautiful information by him. So I was always educated in that respect.
And then when I was ready to leave to go to university at the age of 20, Nathan was born.

Speaker 4 So we never had any of that sibling rivalry. And I love our Nathan to bitch.
You know, technically, look, he could have been my child. You know what I mean? That kind of thing.

Speaker 4 That age difference is there. But it's a wonderful relationship I have with Nathan.
And it's a beautiful relationship I have with my dad, who's there for my kids massively.

Speaker 1 I love that expression, our Nathan, that you get, like my friend who grew up in

Speaker 1 sort of the West Country, they say like our mark. Yeah.
You know, I love that. There's something really endearing about it.
Indeed.

Speaker 4 and it's just sort of the inclusiveness of it and and you know it's sweet i mean my dad did this sorry just to pick up on that point as well when i was when i when i when i i was about 14 and i said i think i really want to be an actor dad was like all right come on let's go and i was like what and he was like do you want to do it properly and i was like yeah so he took me to the video shop remember the old-fashioned video shops

Speaker 4 like a library yeah blockbuster video it was before blockbuster even this was just the local video shops just the little

Speaker 4 independent ones okay and we went in and we looked and he picked these three films um and it was uh he picked uh the deer hunter um the godfather

Speaker 4 and taxi driver and then we went home and he was like right we're gonna watch these this is how you do it properly let's watch these films and we spent the whole weekend re-watching those three films which is which is your favorite from those three

Speaker 4 That's a tricky one, isn't it? I love the deer hunter.

Speaker 1 I love the deer hunter. Yep,

Speaker 1 I love that. And then, when you were in your 20s, you were in gang, like 14 years old, you said you wanted to be.
And then six years later, you're in Gangs of New York with Martin Scarcelli.

Speaker 1 I mean, yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker 1 That was

Speaker 2 another incredible film.

Speaker 4 Mind-blowing as well to be a part of.

Speaker 1 What was that like from the moment that you knew that it was a project that was happening to getting an audition to being there? Can you tell me that?

Speaker 4 Well, it was it was, it was, um,

Speaker 4 I got the call from my agent and said right we need you to come in and do a read and put yourself on tape

Speaker 4 And so I went into London and I and I I met Ellen Lewis who's wonderful We just had a really lovely time and I read this these couple of scenes and then I went away

Speaker 4 And it was one of them, you know, where you don't air for like four or five weeks later and you kind of go it's over. There's no chance.
So as a job and actor and a young lad, I had to go for this.

Speaker 4 We've all done it, lads, let's be honest. I had to go for this bag of shit audition.

Speaker 4 And I really didn't want to go it was fucking awful but I'm on the train I'm sweating I'm on my way into London you know you got to pay the rent haven't you got to eat this moment I'm like

Speaker 4 and I'm going through this fucking awful script and I'm like okay all right yeah having a coffee and then the next minute my phone goes and it was my agent Jane and she said him she said are you sitting down I was like yeah I'm sitting down she went right okay you've got that part in Gangs in New York she's like what she went yeah they came back today you've got a fly to you've got to fly to Italy.

Speaker 4 Say this was Friday. You've got to fly to Italy on Monday.
Marty wants to sit down and talk to you and go through the character. And I was like, what? And I was made up.

Speaker 4 But then the best bit was, I went, does that mean I don't have to go for this audition? No.

Speaker 4 She went, no, you don't have to go for that.

Speaker 1 I was like, fuck that.

Speaker 4 And so then I flew out there and, you know, and we met, and it was wonderful. And it was just a wonderful experience.

Speaker 4 That's where I became friends with Leo as well. That's when we.

Speaker 1 And there was some story about a golf cart or something. We wore a golf cart around the set.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I tipped a golf cart over and I nearly broke his leg.

Speaker 1 Oh, okay, okay.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you can get really messed up on those things. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. You don't realize they're dangerous.
I think that if you go to my Wikipedia page and you look at my filmography, Stephen, they all fall under the category of you have to pay the rent

Speaker 1 for what it's worth. Okay.
Well, and then this is wild.

Speaker 1 So one of the three movies you mentioned was The Godfather, and then you're with pacino you know and the irishman well can you can you imagine that phone call to me dad i i mean that's incredible that's incredible

Speaker 4 i had to go to it was it was a wonderful wonderful story i i was doing a a a a a little series over here called the virtues with shane meadows and it was it was a wonderful uh experience and and on the friday i had to fly to new york to to go to marty's house to to meet robert de niro because rob was an exec and you had to meet him and he wanted to you know make sure that I was right and things like that so

Speaker 4 so you can imagine how nervous I was and I had to fly to New York so I finished work I think first thing Monday they let me go early so I had to fly out and then I got there and literally I had to land go to Marty's house and see Marty and then I met I'm sitting in and Bob comes up and he's got his little cap on and he's got the paper underneath his arm and pair of shorts and a little baggie shirt and he's like

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 it was unbelievable It was amazing. We had a wonderful afternoon.
But Ellen had said to me, Look, he doesn't really talk much.

Speaker 1 And I'm thinking, oh, shit.

Speaker 4 She's like, so you might have to make some conversation. I'm like, okay.

Speaker 4 Anyway, cut to, we were there for about two and a half hours. And then

Speaker 4 they went like, right, okay, you best go.

Speaker 1 And then I said, if I've got the part, I went, I can't, I can't leave now without knowing if I've got the part.

Speaker 4 And then Bob was like, just give us a minute. Go on.
Just give us a minute. And I was like, oh, shit.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 4 I've tried my hardest. I don't know if this is going to work.
I hope so. I don't know if he likes me.
First of all, he was like, you're not Italian. I'm like, no, I'm not Italian.

Speaker 4 And so then I come back in and I sit there. And he goes, he goes, sit down, sit down.
I'll let Marty tell you. And then Marty was like, okay, kid.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 do you want to do this? And I was like, of course.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 I got a hug off them. And I felt like, you know, in all the films, when I felt like I was a made man, do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 Or you were about to be killed.

Speaker 4 Yeah, or I'd be taking out the back and

Speaker 4 two in the head.

Speaker 4 And then you can imagine that that phone call to my dad, and the pride gets me emotional, just thinking about it a little bit.

Speaker 4 You know, I'm a young kid from a block of flats, a young mixed-race kid who had a dream to be an actor.

Speaker 4 And my dad took me to that video shop, like you say, Sean, and then the next minute I'm phoning him up saying I'm going to be in a film with Robert De Niro and Al Pacino and being directed by Martin Scorsese.

Speaker 1 So, you know, that's really cool.

Speaker 4 It's one of those beautiful stories.

Speaker 2 And Martin Scorsese is famous for many things, one of which, though, is his kindness and his warmth and his spirit on set.

Speaker 2 And you've had the chance to work with him at least twice.

Speaker 1 Three and others.

Speaker 1 Three. Wow.
Yeah, good for you. That's really cool.

Speaker 1 And then when I met you, Stephen, at the Graham Norton show just in February, and you were so, I mean, I just fucking loved you right away. You were so normal and kind.
And like, it was.

Speaker 1 That's such a fun show.

Speaker 2 They should, they should have.

Speaker 1 Stephen, what did you think of Sean? I mean, he said that about you. And be honest.
And be brutally honest.

Speaker 1 He was lovely. It was wonderful.
He was like a ray of sunshine. Yeah.
Sure, yeah. Sean was a ray of sunshine.
Yeah, he was lovely.

Speaker 1 Your Sean, this one.

Speaker 4 See, look, CDND and there. Your Sean was lovely and really wonderful.
Do you know what I mean? He was

Speaker 4 very gregarious.

Speaker 1 It was lovely. And afterwards, I was like, oh, my God, you got to come on the show.
So it's nice to be here. Yeah, he did.
But wait, but you were promoting a movie where you trained to be

Speaker 1 this boxer. And the movie's called A Thousand Blows.

Speaker 4 Yeah, the TV series Disney, A Thousand Blows, yet

Speaker 4 set in the 1800s.

Speaker 1 That one, and

Speaker 1 I haven't seen it yet, but those clips, I was like, that looks incredible. Oh, go ahead, go ahead, Will.
Sean, when Jason and I are just looking at each other,

Speaker 1 who's got the joke here? Who wants to go on A Thousand Blows? Do you have it?

Speaker 2 I don't have it yet. I'm still writing it.

Speaker 1 Well, if you're there, go ahead.

Speaker 4 See, My Misses Went. As soon as he said, right, A Thousand Blows, My Misses Went

Speaker 4 sounds a bit like a top shelf.

Speaker 1 I mean, it's just

Speaker 1 Sean right it's it's like my summer in Sean Hayes my summer in Mikonos a thousand blows

Speaker 1 my time share on Fire Island

Speaker 1 I imagine it's different than that Stephen yeah

Speaker 1 the movie

Speaker 1 are you are you did you train did you did you train as a fighter

Speaker 1 yes I trained oh sorry you're asking him

Speaker 4 yeah I did yeah yeah I did

Speaker 1 Yeah, I did. Will, yeah, I did.

Speaker 4 I did, yeah, yeah, I did a lot of boxing, it shit loads of protein, and did, yeah, it was great. I had six months and I got into the best shape I've ever been in.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, you're very young. I mean, you're not 20, but you're still pretty young.
I'm 51, yeah, yeah, to do all that training at 51. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 Like, you, were you a boxing fan, or are you, are you, yeah, yeah, I've always been a boxing fan, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 And how do you feel about where boxing is now? Or have you transferred over to UFC, or are you still a purist with the boxing?

Speaker 4 I like UFC.

Speaker 4 I just, I'm not 100% on the kind of, look, it's attracting audiences. I get that.
I understand that. But I think it's gone a little bit sensationalist now.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 I'm... I'm more of a fan of the pure art of pugilism, do you know what I mean? And the belts.
And I feel like the belts are important.

Speaker 4 And to be number one in the world or a world champion is an important thing to be. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 I'm going to say something that's maybe unpopular, which is that my problem with the sort of the MMA in general is that there is a, to me anyway, there is a kind of a darkness around it that I find,

Speaker 1 you know, around the culture of it that I that I find

Speaker 1 me off.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's something about it.

Speaker 1 Boxing you get that is the sort of the purity, right, of the sweet science, or is that what they call it, right? And the sort of the art of it.

Speaker 1 And of course, there's a ton of art to MMA, and I'm not disparaging what the athletes do, but the sort of the culture around it, to me, there's a, I don't know, there's a sort of a darkness to it.

Speaker 1 Just me.

Speaker 2 I mean, it starts starting with them doing it all in a cage.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 The optics of it.

Speaker 2 But it's still, it's really fascinating. And the multiple disciplines

Speaker 2 inside that cage too is kind of cool. So, yeah, I'm conflicted on it myself.

Speaker 4 And to me, though, one of my favorites is Paddy the Baddy, who is also a scout.

Speaker 4 He's great. He's fantastic.

Speaker 1 Do you guys know this guy?

Speaker 1 He's so funny.

Speaker 2 Is he a boxer?

Speaker 4 He's an MMA fighter. He's an MMA fighter.

Speaker 1 He's so profoundly funny to me. Every time I see him, God, he's good.
And he's tough as nails.

Speaker 4 Yeah, he's amazing.

Speaker 4 He's brutal, but he also doesn't take himself too seriously at all. And I love the kind of showmanship of that kind.
Look, Ali was the best showman we ever had.

Speaker 4 But, you know, he also, and you go, yeah, but Ali respected the other fighters.

Speaker 1 No, he didn't. No.

Speaker 4 I listened to some of the things he used to say, especially to George Foreman.

Speaker 1 Some of the things he said to him was, you know, they were horrific.

Speaker 1 And Patty the Batty, he uses that and that thing that you guys, the Scousers do of calling everybody Lad and putting Lad in everywhere. And there's something sort of

Speaker 1 hilariously disparaging when you use the term Lad, yeah?

Speaker 4 Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. Have a look at him, Jay.
Some of his videos, he's really funny as well. He's nice.
He's very sharp.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Is he what weight class is he?

Speaker 4 I'm not too sure.

Speaker 1 It might be lightweight. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Um, all your tattoos, did you have to did you just not cover them up?

Speaker 4 And or no, I did, I did, yeah.

Speaker 4 Which that was you spend like 50 minutes in this year getting painted when we did the thing.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's it's yeah, then they don't come off in the shower, the cover-up, and it's just gonna be really.

Speaker 1 And you had you have a tattoo of your nanny or for your nanny or something. And I never heard this term, a fairy cake.
We just call it a cupcake.

Speaker 4 Yeah, no, my nana, she used to, when we were kids, she used to make fairy

Speaker 4 Yeah, cupcakes. Cupcakes.

Speaker 1 Okay. Yeah, fairy cakes.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 nothing on fairy cake, Will. No? I'm sorry, GB.
No, no,

Speaker 2 I'll give you a couple more minutes. Go ahead.
No, how do you?

Speaker 1 Continue with the interview. I never have.
I never heard that before. I never heard that.

Speaker 4 No, no, no, no.

Speaker 4 Obviously, not a lot of Americans have.

Speaker 1 Hey, fairy cakes, did you?

Speaker 2 So then what is your what

Speaker 2 when you're not doing these incredible projects, Stephen,

Speaker 2 what is something

Speaker 2 what is your primary hobby? It's not, I bet it's not boxing.

Speaker 2 What is something that

Speaker 2 occupies your time that people might be surprised about?

Speaker 4 Oh, meditation.

Speaker 1 Yes.

Speaker 1 Right. Meditation.
I love it.

Speaker 2 I'm constantly trying to learn how to do that without falling asleep.

Speaker 1 It's right on the edge.

Speaker 4 No, he just bang on the door and you may laugh but that's the key yeah the key is not to fall asleep there's a wonderful practitioner called Mooji yeah if you get a chance I'll go on YouTube I'll type in Mooji and have a listen to him his his voice is fantastic but his pointings and his teachings are wonderful and he always says you know look try and the basic aim is to try not to fall asleep in many ways with meditation but in the same because that's that but if you think about it when the head shuts off most of the time is when you're asleep yeah right you know that's when the subconscious comes into effect.

Speaker 4 But predominantly, it's that kind of trying to stop the white noise and that constant pounding of the head to step out. But it's just allowing it to, oh, where have I gone here? It's just allowing.

Speaker 2 It's trying to get your brain to think about nothing, nothing, right?

Speaker 4 And then, but then, but then that's the key, we'll see. Um, sorry, Jason, that's the key, isn't it?

Speaker 4 We're trying to get the brain to think about nothing, and in that trying, you're already doing, so it's that kind of just letting the clouds pass.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 4 I don't know what else I've got into if you've done ice baths, but not in an egotistical sense. Just that kind of like maybe two.

Speaker 4 If you do two minutes, it does everything your body needs physiologically. Will does it all the time.

Speaker 1 I've been doing it for 10 years. I've been doing it for 10 years, and it's been a game changer for me, man.
Absolute game changer. And it is, that is, I don't, I wish I could meditate.

Speaker 1 Like JB, I've thought about it.

Speaker 1 I've sort of, I've gotten apps before and I've tried it and I've had, and I remember somebody saying to me once, like, imagine a stream and leaves are falling off the stream, and each thought is like a leaf is each thought is like a leaf and then just let it go with it a little bit and then you can just reset yes under the thing i just started doing it and and and it does work but i do it in the cold i do i get in that thing where i just i'm like i'm gonna do three minutes and i just think about my breathing think about my breathing and then yeah when i first started doing when i first started meditating this is i'm talking about like a month ago like really doing it i start every single time i would do it i'd start to cry because my brain works overtime constantly from the moment i wake up to the moment I go to bed I'm like constantly thinking about blah blah blah and it's going 80 miles an hour and from anxiety whatever and then so I didn't I didn't and sugar and I didn't know what to do with myself when I'm still so I would just start welling up and I was like

Speaker 1 but now I'm not anymore that's because that's sitting in the middle yeah you seem fixed for sure yeah

Speaker 4 look it's you can do you can be mindful with anything you do you don't have to the art of it itself is the art the practice is the art you know what I mean at least you're taking that to me.

Speaker 2 You also might be out of tears, Sean.

Speaker 2 It might just be rebuilding the well.

Speaker 1 But there is that thing of also like when you're doing it and then you hear like

Speaker 1 you isolate the sound of the refrigerator running or whatever, and that's okay. Then think about that.
Then focus on that. Then allow those things.
And it's just the allowing, it's the constant.

Speaker 1 And then when you're done with the meditation, you really do feel calmer and more focused and present.

Speaker 1 I mean, have you ever tried TM? Have you ever, Stephen? Have you ever tried TM? I haven't. I've wanted to do that.

Speaker 1 What is that? Oh, Transcendental. What's the difference? Yeah, I don't really know, but I guess that's a different, it's a different practice, the Transcendental Meditation.

Speaker 4 Yeah, that was all at kind of David Lynch school, wasn't it, and everything?

Speaker 1 Was it?

Speaker 4 Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 Stephen, we've taken up way too much of your time. Thank you for being here.
Not enough of your time. God, I could talk to you forever.
I know. I love you.
I agree.

Speaker 1 Where are you right now, and what are you going to do the rest of the day?

Speaker 4 I am in New York.

Speaker 4 We got here on

Speaker 4 Monday. And then

Speaker 4 Seth Meyers, I think, we're doing today, this afternoon, sure, later on, and then and then I'm gonna go home.

Speaker 4 And to answer your question as well, Jason, my family is my favorite thing to do in the whole

Speaker 1 thing.

Speaker 4 I feel very blessed and very, I'm very lucky, and I'm full of gratitude that I have. I have the most amazing wife and two gorgeous kids.

Speaker 1 I love them to bits. Yeah, that's so great.

Speaker 1 I love that blessing. Well, we love you.
Thank you for being here, Stephen. You're so

Speaker 1 big,

Speaker 1 huge fan.

Speaker 1 Huge fan of you.

Speaker 2 Keep going. Keep going.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 2 Thanks, guys, my friend. Thanks for watching.

Speaker 1 How do they say goodbye in Liverpool? I don't know.

Speaker 4 Ta-da.

Speaker 1 Ta-da.

Speaker 1 Ta-da.

Speaker 1 Ta-da. Tara.
Tara. Ta-da.
Ta-da.

Speaker 2 Enjoy the rest of your day. See you bye.

Speaker 1 Take care. Thank you.
See you later. Bye-bye.
Bye-bye. Bye.
Bye-bye.

Speaker 1 Sean, what a guest. I love him.

Speaker 1 I mean,

Speaker 1 when I met him at the Graham Norton show, I was like, oh, I totally know Stephen Graham. Like, I know his work.

Speaker 1 But but I didn't, you never know how anybody is. And I met him.
We ended up just talking and talking. And I'm like, he's such a great human being.
A nice spirit. Great vibe.
Yeah. And so talented.

Speaker 1 And so many things that we all know. You know, so many big movies and TV shows.
And everybody.

Speaker 2 He's been a really high-level character actor for a long, long time.

Speaker 2 Like, you'd probably like, if you like put one of your, one of your favorite movies on, you haven't watched for a while, you go, oh, there he is, Stephen Graham.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Another great example. We were talking about recently of somebody who had talent, came from,

Speaker 1 didn't come from an environment that was conducive to making his way into Shoba's, and had a mentor, had somebody who said, Hey, this kid's great.

Speaker 1 He should go here. And just another, you know.

Speaker 2 Yeah, we've talked about it before. You need

Speaker 2 that next stage of people that believe in you after your parents.

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
I'm still looking. Oh,

Speaker 1 Sean. Listen, I believe in you.

Speaker 2 Sean, look at me.

Speaker 1 I'm looking at you. Hey,

Speaker 1 you're great.

Speaker 2 Oh, no. Your eyes are crossing.
Your eyes are crossing.

Speaker 1 I'm trying to find you. I'm trying to find you.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 here we go. Jason, and Will, I had, I ordered, remember when I told you I was in Ohio?

Speaker 1 You know what the worst part is? It's just the fuck.

Speaker 1 It's his face.

Speaker 2 So let's have to watch you change lanes on the highway. You must put your car into a four-wheel slide when you do it.

Speaker 1 I love, I'm still laughing at, so fairy kicks, listen.

Speaker 1 So, no, I really did order some when I was in Ojai last weekend, I ordered some tea and it was, it was hibiscus tea. Yeah, okay.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 So the opposite of hibiscus tea would probably be chamomile?

Speaker 1 Are you trying to get us to say bibe?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah.
Well, that's not a thing. That's not a word.

Speaker 1 We do that sometimes, but it's not the thing.

Speaker 1 No, no, sorry, jay i i deciphered that i mean we we almost needed the enigma machine for that

Speaker 1 i was i can't believe you got that i was nowhere near that hibiscus okay let me do another one we know we just planted

Speaker 1 did you see him click the file

Speaker 1 this is what you know today

Speaker 1 i was in the um i was in the backyard and we we planted some um hydrangeas okay okay and so um after we were done and i walked away i said,

Speaker 1 hydrangeas.

Speaker 1 That one's not that. This is crazy.
Sorry, listener.

Speaker 2 We'll see you next time.

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