"Pam Abdy & Mike De Luca"

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Speaker 1 Guys, breathe.

Speaker 1 Big in.

Speaker 1 Big out, okay?

Speaker 2 Big in one more. Big in.
Through the nose.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and out.

Speaker 2 You just really get into your sit spot.

Speaker 1 Hey, are you feeling a little bit relaxed, both of you guys? A little bit?

Speaker 1 Let me just tell you this.

Speaker 1 I took some of the Smartlist money, I put it in Bitcoin. Wait, what? Wait.

Speaker 1 It's going to be fine. Welcome to all new Smart List.
Smart.

Speaker 1 I'm at the office today, so I'm not

Speaker 2 but I've got a I've got a new um what office he doesn't have a fucking office.

Speaker 1 I have an office I've had for a couple years over here.

Speaker 2 You don't need to talk all calm like it's no big deal. Let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 You're really impressed with offices.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I am.

Speaker 2 Remember the one we had you never showed up in?

Speaker 1 Yeah, you know why? Because my dad spent 50 years working in an office, and I'm an artist, man.

Speaker 1 Playing part of

Speaker 1 I'm not playing businessman. Oh, I need to go in.

Speaker 1 Are you storytelling?

Speaker 2 Are you working out how to storytell?

Speaker 1 I'm an artist, though. Okay.
I'm an artist.

Speaker 2 Wait, truly, truly, honestly. How long have you had this?

Speaker 1 I've never heard about it. A couple years.
Do you want me to turn the camera around so you can see?

Speaker 2 Wait, is this where the beast lives?

Speaker 1 Yeah, this is where the beast lives. Hang on.

Speaker 1 What's the beast? I guess we'll wait.

Speaker 2 Listener, just wait.

Speaker 1 Will's

Speaker 2 got a

Speaker 2 no, he doesn't need to bring in, it's not show and tell.

Speaker 1 Oh, oh, oh, he's got the leather, who's got like the bachelor leather.

Speaker 2 Look at how unused that meeting space is.

Speaker 3 What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 JB, you forget, I grew up in a serious world. You grew up, so now you're playing make-believe office manager.
You've got a company.

Speaker 2 Yeah, but there's people in my office. You've got an empty meeting space.

Speaker 1 Dude, it doesn't matter. It's like those people who used to go,

Speaker 1 We're gonna have all these platforms for content, so we're gonna create content. Like, what's the content?

Speaker 1 You can have anybody could have a fucking office. Sean could have an office for Christ's sake.
I think he is.

Speaker 2 He's talking to us from

Speaker 1 it's just off the kitchen, though. Oh,

Speaker 1 by the way, this is true.

Speaker 2 Ricky's bed is there below his feet.

Speaker 1 Ricky's right there on the floor.

Speaker 2 Hey, so

Speaker 2 how is everybody's night?

Speaker 1 Everybody. everybody.

Speaker 2 So, listeners, we just or listener, sorry. I was a little ambitious there.
I know, God. How are you doing?

Speaker 2 We had dinner again, our Sunday dinner. We haven't had

Speaker 1 Sunday night.

Speaker 1 Months? Months. Yeah.
Like two or three months.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that

Speaker 1 was fun. It was good to see everybody.
It was really good. It was really good.
It was really good to see Danny Dees.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 2 The great Dan Dees.

Speaker 1 He's the best. I love him and Don.

Speaker 1 And Don. That he and Don

Speaker 1 are part of our regular crew now. That's really, it's nice.
It's nice.

Speaker 1 Did everybody sleep okay today?

Speaker 1 Yeah, we're a little tie-tie, yeah. I guess so.

Speaker 2 I got my PJs on still. Will, do you wear your pajamas to the office?

Speaker 1 I don't.

Speaker 1 I could. It's so fat.
It's a five-minute drive now from my new place. It's great.

Speaker 2 I bet they were very happy to see you. You have not been in there for a while.
You're fresh back from your film.

Speaker 1 I haven't been here in a minute. They were happy to see me.
And

Speaker 1 yeah, it was good. I, you know, I was up super early.
I'm still a little jet lagged and still coming down. My clock is all messed up from late nights and stuff.
So

Speaker 1 I don't know, just one of those.

Speaker 1 I woke up the other morning at like 4:45 and I got a coffee and then I was sitting watching outside and I saw this huge crazy light, you know, being followed by sort of mist.

Speaker 1 It was kind of cutting through the mist, but the light was coming from behind. I looked it up and it turns out it was a rocket being launched from just up the coast here in California.
UFO.

Speaker 1 UFO. It was pretty spectacular to see at like 5:30 a.m.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And so I've been feeling just a little spacey, just kind of coming back to the end of the day.

Speaker 2 Well, you're still in Eastern time, so you're still getting up. And I'll bet you were getting up at five in the morning over there, which was two in the morning here.

Speaker 1 So we were doing five in the morning, like Monday, Tuesdays, and then immediately switching to nights. And we did that for about three weeks.

Speaker 1 The little thing that I did, Jay, I was there like, you know, we had night shoots, and it was two in the morning.

Speaker 2 The listener, Sean, was in it as well.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but

Speaker 1 like two in the morning, I'm like, okay, bye, everybody. I got to go home, and I look back, and I'm like, there's Willie still going till like five, six in the morning.
It was unbelievable.

Speaker 1 And then I've got young Denny, too. So Denny's been, he's a little bit on New York Times too.
So he's like up early. And, you know.
Anyway, it's all good. These are, these are great problems to have.

Speaker 1 But I'm great. It's nice being in California.
Nice to see everybody. I'm sorry about last night, too.
I was going to grab a bite of steak and I forgot I had a dinner because our friend's dog died.

Speaker 1 Okay, so JB, I'm going to walk you through this because it a little bit felt like a lie. No, not at all.
Not at all. Okay, well, hang on.

Speaker 1 And I don't want to meet, I guess it looks like we have a double guest coming up, which we, because we've got two squares.

Speaker 1 Sorry, guests. Sorry, guests, plural.
Jesus.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And then

Speaker 2 I want to ask you if you've locked down your car, and we don't need to say what kind it is.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 Yes. Yes, I have.
You did? That's a lie. Oh, listener.
That's

Speaker 2 bobby big deals at the fucking office got himself a real nice car this weekend

Speaker 1 jesus christ i know i know i don't want to let's not go too deep so i mean the big

Speaker 1 but uh

Speaker 1 but i said to sean yesterday i talked to him in the morning we were talking about something and i go oh you know what i think that the the big boys like have stuff after school and they have uh you know music and and athletic stuff so i said well look do you want to go get a dinner uh grab an early dinner?

Speaker 1 And he goes, yes. And then he texted me and he goes, oh, I forgot our friends, we made plans with our friends.
I'm like,

Speaker 1 yeah, that is. It felt a little excuse-you know,

Speaker 1 no, I swear to God. Because the initial thing was like, yes, of course I want to go to a jar and have a steak with you.

Speaker 2 And didn't you pile on the excuse just now and say that an animal had died as well?

Speaker 1 It didn't pile on, but he had a friend of theirs. Kevin and Carrie, you know, Kevin Carrie.
And he said that they lost their dog. I said, well, maybe we can help them find it.

Speaker 1 Which is a rip-off of an old Norm McDonald joke, by the way.

Speaker 2 So wait, so they lost their dog and they needed you and Scotty to sit around them and

Speaker 1 eat so that they could feel better. You know, the doggy's like a family member.
JB, have you tried this? Have you tried this bar? Yeah, I have. It's not good.
It's pretty good, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 You can mention it, maybe get some free ones.

Speaker 1 You know, I'm good for six bucks. I'll wait till you take a bite.
The bear bell, the bear bell bars, they're really good.

Speaker 2 All right, listener. Today,

Speaker 2 we don't have some fishy, flashy, fancy celeb type.

Speaker 1 Uh-oh.

Speaker 2 Not today. Today, we have got not one, but two people who make the flashy fancy types.
They are two of the most important people in the industry today, period.

Speaker 1 What is

Speaker 1 the entertainment industry? Oh, yeah. Okay.
Okay, okay. Individually.
It's the only industry in the world.

Speaker 2 All right. But individually, individually, they've been behind such movies as Birdman, The Big Short, The Revenant, The Social Network, Moneyball, Captain Phillips, Austin Powers, Boogie Night 7.

Speaker 2 Together,

Speaker 2 they have combined to bring us such films as Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Wonka, Dune, Part 2, and Barbie. Let's find out how these two are able to bring us so much incredible entertainment.

Speaker 2 Please meet the co-chairs and CEOs of Warner Brothers motion picture group, Cam Abdi and Michael DeLuca

Speaker 1 on Smartlist. Good morning.
Good morning.

Speaker 1 Good morning.

Speaker 2 We're going to have a couple of smart folks come on and talk to us for fucking once.

Speaker 1 This is cool.

Speaker 4 I had to hold my laughter in. Oh, my God.

Speaker 2 I want to say Pam's still at home. Mike, you're at the office.
I'm in the office. You were both in the office.

Speaker 3 We have two offices.

Speaker 3 We have an office we share, and then we have a spillover office. We need to do solo things.
Pam's in the spillover office.

Speaker 1 These are people with two eyes. So in all of Warner Brothers, we only have two eyes.

Speaker 2 Now, in the shared office, do you have one of those his and her desks where you're looking at each other?

Speaker 3 No, we thought about it like an old

Speaker 1 diagonal we are.

Speaker 3 Like an old Howard Hawks movie, like a Ben Hecht screenplay where the

Speaker 3 desk and the newsroom are together. But we went,

Speaker 3 I think, a more realistic

Speaker 3 cornered.

Speaker 1 We did have that first section.

Speaker 1 Jason and I had an office for a while, for a couple of years, where we faced each other, and he would always complain, as you could just tell this morning, that I was never there.

Speaker 1 Again, my dad was in an

Speaker 1 belly up. Like a lead balloon.
Your shitty ideas sunk it.

Speaker 1 Hey,

Speaker 1 Mike and Penn. Welcome to Smartlist.
Wow, this is not Smartlist. This is an honor for us.
We're Smart fans.

Speaker 2 Pam and I have threatened to do this for a long time. I'm so glad we finally found some time from your very busy schedule to do this next Friday.

Speaker 1 Collectively, individually, and collectively, you two are responsible for some of the greatest pieces of entertainment that people have enjoyed across this country ever. It's true.
It's really cool.

Speaker 1 It's so impressive. It is really impressive.
Thank you. It is.

Speaker 2 Now, but what is unique, listener, is that usually the people who are driving

Speaker 2 these factories of incredible entertainment is usually just one person. But

Speaker 2 this is a pair. This is a duo.
And this isn't the first time that you guys have done it. You came from, tell the audience where you started to work on your duoness.

Speaker 3 Well, I got to meet Pam. I was at this company, New Line, in the 1990s.
It was my first job, actually.

Speaker 1 This is a company.

Speaker 3 I was there as an intern in 85 from NYU.

Speaker 1 So I had been at New Line

Speaker 3 for a long time. And Pam worked for this company, Jersey Films, which of course produced pulp fiction and so many great films in the 90s.

Speaker 2 Dan Indevito and Michael.

Speaker 1 Schamberg and Stacy Scher. Yep.

Speaker 1 Many of my people moved to Jersey.

Speaker 2 This is an ongoing dumbass bitch, some Italian guy in the back wings that likes to comment.

Speaker 1 Sorry. Push through it.

Speaker 3 So that's where I met. I Pam at Pam.
Jersey Films produced a couple of movies for New Line. That's where I met Pam.
We became best friends. She's from Jersey.
I'm from Brooklyn.

Speaker 3 We're united on all things, Italian food.

Speaker 2 It's the Holland Tunnel apart.

Speaker 1 And movies. Yep.

Speaker 3 And then we had a chance. We switched jobs many times.
I went from being an exec to being a producer. She became an exec at Paramount.
I produced for her.

Speaker 3 Then when I became an executive again after producing at MGM, I invited Pam to work with me. And then we've been an executive team ever since.

Speaker 2 it's just like, but so, so then, again, for the, for the listener, there's a, there's,

Speaker 2 there's, you can either be selling stuff or you can be buying stuff. And that that's like a big, big difference.

Speaker 2 You know, one, obviously, you're sort of like doing the dog and pony show and selling your wares.

Speaker 2 And the other one, you get to sit back in the chair, fold your arms and say, sell me, let me hear what you've got

Speaker 2 to overly reduce it. So you guys have both have done both of that at very, very,

Speaker 2 very high levels. You're obviously on the on the premium elite buying side right now.

Speaker 2 Is there a side that you like more? I mean, obviously with the selling part,

Speaker 2 you spend more time sort of out there in the trenches and on set sometimes.

Speaker 2 And on the buying side, you're

Speaker 2 in a more air-conditioned situation.

Speaker 1 Yes. Snacks are better, more consistent.

Speaker 2 What do you prefer?

Speaker 3 Well, you know, it's different pleasures.

Speaker 3 When you're a producer, you know, it's more artisanal and you're building the project from the ground up with the director and you're just so much more intimately involved in

Speaker 3 just the creative aspects of movie making. And it's just a different pleasure.
You're kind of part of a family that erupts as the thing starts to take shape.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 it's a really wonderful experience. And you're with these people for stressy, I bet, yeah?

Speaker 2 Because you're not in control.

Speaker 2 You're not the buyer.

Speaker 3 You sing for your supper a little bit more, but we find there's advocacy on both sides. If you're a producer, you're advocating for a financier or a studio to greenlight you.

Speaker 3 But even when you have the power of the checkbook, you're still advocating for

Speaker 3 your boss or the board that you report to to finance a state of pictures. And there's advocacy

Speaker 3 in both versions of the job.

Speaker 2 But the agenda is different. Yeah, Pam.
I mean, you're like, while you're advocating, you need to sort of mind the asset a little bit more on the buying side.

Speaker 2 And on the selling side, you can be a little bit more sort of purist and like, no, just whatever's whatever's better for the film. I mean, I'm oversimplifying it.

Speaker 1 But you also know as both having, having been on the other side, that you know, you can't bullshit a bullshitter.

Speaker 1 So if somebody comes to you and is like, hey, this, and then you're like, hey, man, I know how it's, I know how the sauce is. Nobody can tell Pam.

Speaker 3 Nobody can tell Pam. No, no producer is going to pull the wool over Pam's eyes on budget.
She can literally do both jobs, you know,

Speaker 1 my love.

Speaker 4 I mean, Jason knows this because Jason and I have produced a movie together and worked together. My first love will always be producing because I just love the grind and being on set.

Speaker 4 As you guys know, it's just the best. There's nothing like it.

Speaker 2 Well, then, do you miss that?

Speaker 4 Always, but I love this too. You know, they're not, they're not, it's not either.

Speaker 1 You guys can go visit the set. We do.
Exactly. Anytime you do that.

Speaker 4 But I am, you can't, you can't pull the bowl over.

Speaker 1 You're in the studio. Yeah.
Oh, they're going to really watch it.

Speaker 3 Like, if you're not, we try to visit the set. If you don't visit, sometimes they think, oh, well, you know, don't you care about us?

Speaker 1 But then when you do show up, people are worried, like, oh, are we over budget? Is Is there a problem?

Speaker 3 Really got to navigate that carefully of when and how we show up.

Speaker 2 Who's more prone to say, hey, let's go visit that set? Who likes to get out a little bit more often?

Speaker 1 Oh, Pam, for sure.

Speaker 4 I like to go rogue.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I have a terrible turbulence anxiety. Like, I have a flying phobia, so I do it, but it's not something that I volunteer for a lot.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I do. I'll relate to it.
Yeah, it's gotten increasingly worse. And you know what? In the last couple of months, it's been a little bit better, but these guys know I get quite a lot.

Speaker 2 like, Will, you didn't have like a bad experience, right? It's just like as you become older, you more

Speaker 1 kids. When I had kids, when I had kids.

Speaker 2 Same with you, Mike, or did you have a bad experience? Exactly.

Speaker 3 Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 No, no bad experience.

Speaker 3 Shrink told me once it's a control issue, obviously.

Speaker 3 A lot of people get it when they get their first dose of real responsibility.

Speaker 3 So when I got, when they, when New Line made me head of production in the 90s, I was only, I was 26, 27, and I, I, you know, it was the first big responsibility I ever got.

Speaker 3 That's when I got the flying phobia. And then it just, it's escalated since I've had children and gotten more responsibility.
It just kind of increased exponentially.

Speaker 1 Have you, have you thought about working?

Speaker 1 I have considered working through it because I know I have a friend of mine who years ago, and he had access to tremendous resources, but he went with that guy who's famous for walking people through that phobia.

Speaker 1 And he did, I think he told me he did a month of flights and he'd go to the, he'd go to like LaGuardia. He lives in New York.
And

Speaker 1 they'd look at the board and they'd pick a flight and they'd go, they'd fly to Cleveland. Then they'd fly to Houston.
Then they'd fly to Miami. And he did that for about a month.

Speaker 1 And the guy walked him through basically every scenario. And he got a lot of people.

Speaker 1 Yeah, well, I'm telling you, when I got stuck in that elevator, like my therapist said, the best thing you could do from now on. Because then I was in such a massive panic.

Speaker 1 She goes, ride as many elevators as you possibly can. Right.

Speaker 3 It's like aversion therapy. It does help.
I accidentally stumbled into aversion therapy because my ex-wife lives in Fort Worth, Texas with my children, and I travel there every weekend.

Speaker 3 So I'm on planes twice a week, and it's just kind of normalized it for me. So that's helped a lot.
And then information helps me. So I fly with a lot of apps.

Speaker 3 I have apps going that tell me where the plane is in relation to every other plane.

Speaker 1 Oh, you should fly with them. And you need to what the weather is like.
And it really helps. Wait a second.
Mike, I'll tell you something.

Speaker 1 Mike, I do the same thing, and I'll tell you what I've done recently.

Speaker 2 While you're in the air.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I track my own flight, and I I look at ATI weather and I look at flight aware and to see what they're thinking and I'm like, are these guys going to go around this storm or not?

Speaker 1 I'm right there with you, brother.

Speaker 3 I literally will go to the flight attendant.

Speaker 3 Excuse me, flight attendant, I noticed that this plane at 34,000 feet is smooth because you perhaps ask our pilot to pick it up 2,000 feet because we're bopping around at 32,000 and she goes.

Speaker 1 Do you know that they now have this new software that the pilots use that shows them where turbulence is that they all share it and it's like a credit card? Tyreps. Yeah, pilots.
Pilot corners.

Speaker 1 He knows everything, Will.

Speaker 4 He knows everything. I fly with him a lot.

Speaker 1 But here's my suggestion. This is what I, and this is recent, just this spring,

Speaker 1 I decided to stop doing it. I had a moment, Michael,

Speaker 1 where I went,

Speaker 1 I'm not flying this plane. And the pilots don't want to die.
Right. Yeah.

Speaker 3 That's trust. Somehow you achieve trust.
I'm still working on trust.

Speaker 1 Here's what I do. I fly the first flight out as much as I can because I'm so unbelievably exhausted.
I don't care what happens.

Speaker 1 Are you able to sleep on planes? I fall asleep in a second.

Speaker 3 Oh, I'm so envious of that.

Speaker 1 Because that explains your diet, too, that you just don't care what happens.

Speaker 2 Mike,

Speaker 2 what about a nice cool beverage

Speaker 2 to cut the edge?

Speaker 3 You know, I'm sober, so I'm in a lifetime timeout of anything.

Speaker 2 What about a, are sleeping pills on your list of?

Speaker 1 No, no, I can't. Yeah,

Speaker 3 they're on the no-fly list for me.

Speaker 2 What about melatonin?

Speaker 2 No?

Speaker 3 Yeah, no, I try to do it substance-free and just use my apps and engage with the flight attachments.

Speaker 1 Same.

Speaker 4 When we're flying together, I'll go check on him, and then he tends to show me every app. So then I start to have a panic attack, which I don't normally have on a flight, but yes, that's what we do.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you know what I feel would help all of us is if we flew in one of those hurricane planes that the air totally.

Speaker 1 They fly literally into the wall of a hurricane

Speaker 1 to measure the speed of the winds.

Speaker 2 Well, that's just it. It turns out planes can handle so much more than you think that they can.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 2 once you basically scuba dive with a shark, you're no longer scared of sharks because you look them in the eye and they don't care about you.

Speaker 1 And by the way,

Speaker 1 I was talking to my therapist the other day, and it turns out that humans can withstand so much more, too. Oh, really? Jesus.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 you can do it, Willie. We are resilient.

Speaker 1 We can handle it.

Speaker 2 Now, let's talk about real fear. Let's talk about budgets.
Let's talk about

Speaker 1 Zaz.

Speaker 1 But also, but like to Jason's point, though, too, like, I want to get into that because I'm fascinated watching from the sidelines about movies and stuff.

Speaker 1 And like, why, you know, what is your opinion about, because I'm sure you guys talk about this. We all talk about this.
Everybody in the business talks about

Speaker 1 what's the state of the business.

Speaker 1 Because it seems like first of all it seems like you tell me the perception is that the i the star of any movie now is the idea because movie stars at least there are some that can still you go oh i want to see that person i like that person i like those but for the most part do i have that that right or yeah like stars used to open films and now it's a little bit more plot and premise driven to to

Speaker 3 drive audience and i think there's an element of truth to that however you see you see each new generation kind of want to want they still want to create their own movie stars so you have you have people like Timothy Chalamay and Austin Butler

Speaker 3 Flores Q like you know basically any anyone on the red carpet for Barbie or Dune is an example of you know young young audiences creating new movie stars brought audiences to that is the concept before the star right it's exponential if you can if you can combine no I think I think Chalamet playing Bob Dylan was a great example for sure combining you know something iconic with with an actor people clearly want to see I think there's opportunities to create new movie stars.

Speaker 3 Movie stars still matter. But it is, you know, with the advent of streaming, where people get so much content, you know, constantly,

Speaker 3 you do need that sticky idea and that provocative, audacious kind of concept to break through things.

Speaker 2 Preexisting IP, like Superman.

Speaker 1 And we've been inundated, right?

Speaker 1 Who is it who said,

Speaker 1 Tom Rothman who said, you know, the tyranny of IP. And we've been inundated with it, right?

Speaker 2 And is there something says the guy who only has one Marvel title.

Speaker 1 Way to go. Way to go.
He just made his shit list. Oh, no, I love that.
No, I know. I know.
I'm kidding. He's a great guy.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 1 And now back to the show.

Speaker 1 My question is, I guess, in the face of all of that, is there...

Speaker 1 And be as candid as you want to be, you're comfortable with being. Given, if all things being equal, if you could control the appetite of filmgoers and people who go into the theaters, what would be

Speaker 1 what would you do? What kind of films would you make? Would you green light? Would you develop?

Speaker 1 All things being equal?

Speaker 3 All things being equal, we really believe in a diversified slate because we feel like

Speaker 3 the world's become pretty niche. So we try to have something for everyone so all your eggs aren't in one basket.

Speaker 3 It's almost impossible. Even for Disney, which owns those four giant labels of Lucasfilm and Pixar and

Speaker 3 Marvel,

Speaker 3 you can't have a 20, 10-pole slate. There's just not that much IP available to just have nothing but billion-dollar movies every year, although we'd certainly love it and everybody tries.

Speaker 1 But there's room for the originals, too, like what you guys just did with the centers, right?

Speaker 3 Yeah, we think a balanced slate. We have something for everyone.
And yes, if you're lucky enough to have IP and you can mine those franchises, great.

Speaker 3 But then it's also great to give new voices a chance, new filmmakers, directors that are free.

Speaker 2 So if you could change one thing,

Speaker 2 you'd maybe try to get the audience to be a little bit more thirsty for something weird and original and without

Speaker 3 yeah I think it's I think if we could change anything it would be to get our fellow studios to make more movies I think I think box office is down just because the amount of films has never really ticked back up since the pandemic

Speaker 4 started to research well and also you can just get it on streaming you know yeah I mean the other thing I think that's important for the audience now is directors I think there is a relationship with this next generation where they can tell when a signature filmmaker has their voice on a movie.

Speaker 1 They can tell that like a Jordan Peale or Ryan Kugler. Yeah, Jordan Peel or Ryan Kugler or Greta Gerwig or Chris Nolan.
Paul Thomas Anderson.

Speaker 3 They can sense authorship or the lack of it. They really do.

Speaker 1 Jason Bateman. Jason Bateman.

Speaker 1 Absolutely.

Speaker 3 Jason Bateman. We're waiting for a much bigger filmography, man.

Speaker 1 A Jason Bateman picture. He refers to himself as a third person a lot.
Do you know that?

Speaker 1 I think the world needs another Jason Bateman picture of you. I love his picture.
I love Saturday.

Speaker 4 I told you. I told Jason to start directing when we were making Identity See.

Speaker 1 He's such a good director.

Speaker 1 Yes. And we always encourage him to make more comedies too, because he's such a funny Maufau.
But can I ask you this, though,

Speaker 1 just while we're on this topic, is there, and again,

Speaker 1 at the risk of,

Speaker 1 I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings,

Speaker 1 but

Speaker 1 is there, has

Speaker 1 the sort of the onslaught of the IP, and again, there are lots of great films that have come out in this era, and there are a lot of people whom we all know and love

Speaker 1 who have made these and have done really well. And blah, blah, blah.
The list is very long. But have we,

Speaker 1 in a certain way, have we dulled our

Speaker 1 taste buds for other kinds of films? Have we changed,

Speaker 1 is there a chance that we altered

Speaker 1 people's tastes of the film?

Speaker 2 Because the big things are so loud and sticking out.

Speaker 1 Well, yeah, that we don't, you know, we were all, we're all older. We're all the same sort of generation.

Speaker 1 We were all raised on a diversified slate of films that came out every year, and there were lots of comedies and dramas and action, et cetera, et cetera.

Speaker 2 They had the verdict in Raging Bull and Kramer v. Kramer, which now you can't have those sort of adult dramas.

Speaker 1 And so now everything's been kind of, it's kind of like, you know, it's what people complain about pop music, if you will, that everything just becomes the very, you know, homogenized and very much the same.

Speaker 1 And have we damaged tastes?

Speaker 3 I don't think so. I think, and again, because your tastes are always refreshed by new audiences coming up.

Speaker 3 I think what's happened is the bar has just gotten higher for what we consider theater-worthy criteria, you know, things that will make something not streaming, but theatrical.

Speaker 3 But I think, you know, when you see a spread of theatrical successes from Long Legs or Everything Everywhere All at Once from the Neons and the H24s, they're not tentpoles, they're not making a billion dollars globally, but they are pulling in audiences theatrically.

Speaker 3 And And then on our side of the street, when you have

Speaker 3 something as

Speaker 3 diverse as Minecraft, and then the next weekend, Sinners are at Universal, Oppenheimer, and then we had Barbie.

Speaker 3 I think that people are up for the theatrical experience and they're up for a variety of movies. The bar is just higher for what will get them out of the house.

Speaker 3 And that's our job to meet that higher bar.

Speaker 2 And it's less about how theatrical is not as good. It is more about how streaming is more appealing, and there's good stuff to watch at home.

Speaker 1 Convenient. Yeah, they're not mutually exclusive.
There's enough to go around.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I think there are consumers that are happy to wait for streaming or watch streaming originals, and then there's consumers that want the theatre. Want to get out of the street?

Speaker 1 Yeah, and there are people who don't want to ever leave their house, right? Who don't want to go, they won't even go to Larchmont, even though it's three blocks away. Right.

Speaker 1 I want to go. Oh, I wonder who that could be.

Speaker 1 Yeah, you can get everything on your phone. Go ahead, Sean.

Speaker 2 Now, but you said

Speaker 2 you'd love it if studios made more movies. What do you think

Speaker 2 is the primary reason that they're not making more movies because it's getting increasingly more expensive to

Speaker 2 build a sort of

Speaker 2 a public profile for it, like a marketing profile?

Speaker 2 Like you got to have, we got to buy a bunch of commercials for it and sort of build that social pressure to go see this thing because everyone's seeing the billboards and the commercials and oh my god, I guess I got to go see that because I got to talk about it at work.

Speaker 2 It's cost so much money to buy those commercials and those billboards that people say, ah, maybe I'll just make it for streaming where I don't need to do all that stuff. It's just production costs.

Speaker 2 Is that one of the big things that no?

Speaker 4 I think, I think it's about, yes, it's expensive to make some films, but you can make films at different, you know, different budget levels

Speaker 4 depending on what it is.

Speaker 2 But isn't the price to sell them the same thing?

Speaker 4 But I think you have to meet, I think marketing has changed, and I think you have to meet

Speaker 4 the audience where they're receiving their advertising.

Speaker 4 not necessarily a 30 right not necessarily a 30 second linear tv spot but like digitally like what we saw just how we saw the fervor of minecraft with the chicken jockey and the memes taking on a life of its own coupled with two weeks later sinners and like Mike and my TikTok feed just filling with people, you know, experiencing this film.

Speaker 4 Like that was magical, like magical to see that happen. And I think that's where they are.

Speaker 3 I think every legacy studio, by legacy studio, I mean, you know, the Paramount, Sony, us,

Speaker 3 the non-streamers,

Speaker 3 coming out of the pandemic, everyone is cautious about, okay, is box office down because the pandemic irrevocably altered viewing habits, or is box office down because we're making less movies?

Speaker 3 You know, Pam and I feel like it's because we're making less movies.

Speaker 3 Some people feel human behavior may have been altered and the audience may be never coming back at the level they were in pre-pandemic.

Speaker 3 So I think as everybody tries to figure out the answer to that, and and it's a very fluid situation,

Speaker 3 working your slate back up to 10, 15, 20 movies a year, I just is going to be a slow, cautious process. Everyone's kind of feeling their way of

Speaker 3 what's exactly causing the downturn. Is it the hangover from the pandemic? Or is it that we're not making the same amount of movies?

Speaker 1 Right. You know,

Speaker 1 almost to that point, you know, it seems like, and you guys tell me, more people than ever are out of work in the history of the entertainment business.

Speaker 1 It seems like writers that used to work all the time can't find a kit. Crew.
Actors, directors, producers, crew, everybody. Why is that in your opinion?

Speaker 1 And what does your crystal ball say about the future of that? Do you see that changing? Like Village Road Show, didn't they just go bankrupt or something? It just seems like

Speaker 1 the entertainment business is collapsing. It's strict.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's getting smaller because there's less stuff being made.

Speaker 3 Yeah, there's work.

Speaker 3 There's been some consolidation in the industry. So that immediately means less buyers on the block.

Speaker 3 There was a contraction in production, both on the series side and the feature side.

Speaker 3 As we were navigating the pandemic and then the so-called streaming wars, which were never really a war. Netflix won that war before it even started.

Speaker 1 They had a 20-year head start.

Speaker 3 I do think things are picking up and will tick up,

Speaker 3 maybe not to pre-pandemic levels, but I think that has been a symptom of both.

Speaker 1 It's all cyclical, right? Pambi.

Speaker 4 Yeah, I was just going to say, just the studios making less movies, like we were saying, but also if you go to TV, you know, streaming has created the eight to 10 episode series as opposed to what we all grew up with, you know, on network television with 22 episodes.

Speaker 4 And you, you constantly felt like, you know, you had all those linear networks that were creating multiple shows filling must-see TV and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 And I feel like that has been altered, you know, quite a bit since the streaming and since the pandemic.

Speaker 1 Sure, I used to do how many, 24 episodes a year for Own Will and Grace? Sometimes 22, sometimes 26, sometimes 23. It was great.
It was amazing. And then they don't.
Ozark, how many did you guys do?

Speaker 1 Just 10. JB? 13? 10? 10.
10. And they're remaking it, right? They're doing it with robots, and they said it's got more luck to it.

Speaker 1 You see the way

Speaker 1 he can set it, works that right in there.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they said it's going to, it's going to, yeah, it breathes more.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but shoot, what was I going to say?

Speaker 3 By the way, Will, we use Lego Batman in every tribute reel to Warner, every best of Warner Brothers reel that we screen at Cinemacon. We always include Lego Batman.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's our favorite.

Speaker 2 I won't do that to him, Mike. He's kind of dying out on that.

Speaker 1 Thank you. We love it.

Speaker 2 So, so, guys,

Speaker 2 you have

Speaker 2 been

Speaker 2 uniquely great individually and also together

Speaker 2 in really getting behind some of the more

Speaker 2 specific creative voices behind these movies, people like Paul Thomas Anderson and David Fincher, et cetera, et cetera. When you are

Speaker 2 collaborating with someone like that, who they like to keep the edges on, and that's what the audience likes too, but sometimes, oftentimes, that's at odds with the

Speaker 2 goal to get as many people in the tent as possible, buying a ticket and making it mass appeal and sound around the edges sometimes and not be as controversial, not be as challenging.

Speaker 2 How do you manage that? On the producing side, on the selling side,

Speaker 2 it's probably a lot easier. But in your current roles, as,

Speaker 2 you know, trying to bring in profits as well, are those conversations difficult? Do you err on one side or the other? Walk us through that a little bit.

Speaker 4 I find it because of our background. I mean, listen, I'm 30 years in.
Mike's longer than that.

Speaker 3 We're just a little. It's very polite of you, Pam.
Thank you for saying

Speaker 1 that number of jobs.

Speaker 1 No, no, no.

Speaker 4 I'm just saying. I'm 30 years in, whatever.

Speaker 4 But I think because both he and I have been in the trenches

Speaker 4 on a producerial side, there's a certain level of understanding and trust that we bring to this job.

Speaker 4 So the filmmakers that we work with, some of them, we've had long relationships, like we're working with Alejandro and Yorichi right now. I'm on my fourth film with him.

Speaker 4 I think it's...

Speaker 4 it's there's there's a trust there's a collaboration there's a respect i mean you have to earn the filmmakers respect you know so i think what we bring to the table is because we have this knowledge of being on the ground and going through the ups and downs and the difficulties of what it is to be on set every day and try to make something great because we all set out to make something great and sometimes shit happens and it doesn't come out exactly how you envisioned it you have to be you have to be in lockstep together as creative partners so i think mike and i try to approach it that way where

Speaker 4 We look at filmmakers as our partners. We're all have the same end goal to make something great and to get the biggest audience in the theater theater to see it.
So I don't find it difficult.

Speaker 4 I actually find it invigorating.

Speaker 1 Well, that's really funny, Pam. That's really funny because you often hear people, you do in comments and stuff saying, these fucking people in Hollywood and they, they just want to make shit movies.

Speaker 1 Like, nobody's trying, nobody sets out to make a shitty movie, by the way.

Speaker 1 Everybody's intentions are good. Right.
Right.

Speaker 3 And it's, and there's no blanket statement for Hollywood. Like, it's so, it's so, it's so different.
You know, our friend Donna Langley at Universal is different than Tom Rothman at Sony.

Speaker 3 We do our thing at Warner's.

Speaker 2 Donna, another one from New Line that started.

Speaker 2 Not as an intern, right?

Speaker 3 No, we actually hired Donna. She was an assistant to a manager at the time.

Speaker 3 And she, you know, and

Speaker 3 she and another executive, Mary Parent, who went on to do great things and is a

Speaker 3 running legendary for Josh Grode,

Speaker 3 Newline, it was a great kind of, you know, training ground for a lot of people in the 90s. And when you met Donna, you knew she was going to run an empire someday.

Speaker 3 I mean, she was just born in the world.

Speaker 2 And has been in that position of leadership longer than anyone.

Speaker 1 Anyone? Yeah. Yeah.
Like, like ever. Through multiple regimes.
Running Universal. It's just a lot of people.
By the way, the new line is.

Speaker 1 The people who have come in and out of New Line, it's a pretty interesting slate of people now that I think about it. All the people.
Brenner's still there with you.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he is. Then you've got...
Toby Emmerich, wasn't he? Obviously, Toby.

Speaker 1 And then you have our buddy Ken Alterman, who's there, who we're still, Jason and I still play golf with. We love

Speaker 1 Ken's grave.

Speaker 1 We love Kent.

Speaker 1 And I'm just thinking, like, wow, that was what an interesting place that was for a lot of people who kind of

Speaker 1 learned

Speaker 1 their stuff there.

Speaker 3 Yeah,

Speaker 3 we were given the freedom to really run our projects. And even though you're an executive, you almost behave like a producer at New Line at that time.
So we all learned a lot.

Speaker 1 Interesting.

Speaker 2 And it really does seem like you guys are creating that or continuing that environment of trust and deference to a very specific filmmaker agenda, like something like Sinners, for example.

Speaker 2 Like I have not seen it yet, but from what I've seen from the materials and heard from people, it's a very specific and exciting creation.

Speaker 1 Responses

Speaker 1 incredible. Oh, yeah.
People are just like crazy for it.

Speaker 1 We're so happy.

Speaker 2 Selling popcorn and getting incredible reviews. So like that's that's the mother load right there, right? So

Speaker 2 talk about how frightening that can be to

Speaker 2 while you, as you say, Pam, you're a partner with the filmmaker, you're coming from a place of shared experience and you kind of know what they're going through and blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 But eventually one has to just kind of close your eyes and jump in. and just say, all right, Ryan, I get what you're going for here.
We're really not going to be able to gauge until we're done.

Speaker 2 And so we have to trust you.

Speaker 2 We have to wait till after principal photography, get post, have all that music come in and the color timing and all that stuff to create this very finely cooked meal that it looks like nothing coming out of the grocery store.

Speaker 2 You look at all the ingredients on it, like you don't know what you've got till it's cooked. And so you have to give him all of that runway.

Speaker 2 Is that really, really frightening, or is it exciting or both?

Speaker 1 And we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 Sorry, we got to reload. No, it is a good question.
It is a good question. It is long, but it is is a long question.

Speaker 4 I find it exciting. I have to be honest.

Speaker 4 I think when you have that chemistry with a filmmaker, with a director, and when you're pushing and pulling on things, it's not like we're just sitting here saying, hey, go off and run in the field and make this movie.

Speaker 4 You know, we're all talking all the time through the script process, through run in the field process.

Speaker 1 Run in the field. Go off and play it and play and play.

Speaker 1 People are going to start to use this, by the way.

Speaker 1 Thanks, Will. Thanks for Mike teasing me.
Thanks, Will. Netflix meeting tomorrow.
They're going to be like, look, guys, we're going to be running in the field over here.

Speaker 1 Ted doesn't want us running in the field. Exactly.
Pam, I just want to run in the field.

Speaker 4 Frolicking, you know, having a good time.

Speaker 3 It's going to be the variety headline tomorrow. Like, Pam Abbey of Warner Brothers advocates field running as a bigger piece of money.

Speaker 1 By the way,

Speaker 4 by the way, the last six weeks I've been having i wouldn't be surprised anyway

Speaker 1 warner brothers warner ankles field running

Speaker 3 but you know ryan well when you're dealing with like ryan comes to the table trailing you know like two billion in box office like he

Speaker 3 yes you could call it ip but he created the Creed franchise out of his head.

Speaker 3 Black Panther, I'm a comic book fan.

Speaker 3 I'm a huge comic book collector still and geek fan. And I knew the Black Panther character, but it's not like that was one of the top 10 characters.
Ryan

Speaker 3 created that franchise also, again, out of his mind,

Speaker 3 obviously under the brilliant Kevin Feige, too. But so

Speaker 3 when you're doing a film with Ryan Koogler, who has that pedigree, it is a little bit of a hedge against the unknown. I mean, greenlining movies at a studio is like being at a casino.

Speaker 3 You have a certain amount of money and you're placing bets and you're hoping more of them work than don't work.

Speaker 3 But the only hedge against the unknown is sometimes you can point to someone's track record. You know, like when we hired David Fincher to do Seven,

Speaker 3 you know, I happened to thought, I thought Alien 3 was a beautiful movie. It didn't work as big as they wanted to commercially, but there was tremendous artistry.

Speaker 3 And of course, he had all his music, his music videos and his commercials

Speaker 3 before that point made hiring him for seven very, very easy. We were lucky to have him.

Speaker 3 So when you can look at someone's pedigree, whether they're established like Ryan or a new voice coming up, like we just made a movie with this guy, Zach Kreger, who did the movie Barbarian, and I think he's in love with that movie.

Speaker 1 Wasn't that an amazing movie?

Speaker 1 That's great guys. It's great.

Speaker 3 Totally unique, surprising in the genre, innovated within the genre.

Speaker 3 We were lucky to get his next movie. When you can look at someone's previous work,

Speaker 3 also another great horror movie that came out, Talk to Me, you know, by these two. two directors who started on a YouTube channel, Rocka Raka in Australia.

Speaker 1 Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 When you can look at people's previous work, it gives you a little bit of a hedge against the unknown, and that helps us make that call sometimes.

Speaker 1 There used to be that old adage or that thing that people would say that the studios are in the business of not making movies, right? Do you remember? No, is that true? Yeah, I remember that.

Speaker 1 I remember when these were. There was a period, right? Yeah, where studios were playing games.

Speaker 3 Well, there was a period when I was a non-writing producer, which is literally like Willie Lohman with scripts under your arm, like driving all over town, you know,

Speaker 3 pitching your wares.

Speaker 1 That was just from somebody who just got somebody passed on. They're languages.
Yeah, movies are dare. Studios are making a movie.

Speaker 4 yeah studios would almost be like we dare you to make a movie right we dare you to get us to make a movie and that that that i find not a helpful attitude yeah that's not helpful i also don't think you can declare like that i think that was like in the early 2000s will when people were like after the boom of the 90s and like we're starting to shift and internet and all that stuff was happening and tech and everything i i just don't think you can declare any one thing right you can't say this is the way it is so we shouldn't make these kinds of movies until until one one works.

Speaker 3 Although when we lost DVDs, when DVDs went away, we did lose a safety net. And, you know, and streaming doesn't quite make up that gap.

Speaker 3 So we are working without a net, you know, but I also think, like, Pam said, that can be really exciting because it just, I think for the consumer, it means that the bar for quality really, really has to be high to get you to get out of your house and convert to being a ticket buyer.

Speaker 1 But people couldn't, they couldn't have predicted back then in the early 2000s what it was going to become. And I think that that sort of fear.
So, you know, as you said, you lost DVDs.

Speaker 1 However, everybody was so nervous at the advent of the internet and social media.

Speaker 1 You remember the fear, you know, I remember the first when MySpace took off and people were trying to green light movies with people who had a presence on MySpace, and everybody's clamoring to be

Speaker 1 people

Speaker 1 were not able to predict what it would be in the same way that we can't now with things like AI, et cetera.

Speaker 1 And of course, we're going to look back in 10 years and say, my God, we were so foolish to spend so much time worried about about X, Y, and Z. I agree.

Speaker 1 And because,

Speaker 1 obviously, something else will happen. People will want to watch stuff.
People will want to enjoy stuff in some way.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 they want the communal experience, you know, for certain kinds of films.

Speaker 4 They want to go and sit with their neighbors and go watch the movie and then go to a cafe afterwards or a bar and have a drink and talk about it.

Speaker 2 Yeah, and I get that

Speaker 2 being in a big, a big dark room with a bunch of strangers, it's really fun to

Speaker 2 get a shared experience.

Speaker 1 That was my 20s and she got them.

Speaker 1 Berlin for me. That's a Berlin.

Speaker 1 Twice a year. I allow myself twice a year.

Speaker 1 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 2 But to like everybody be in the same room all at the same time, get scared, I get why horror movies make so much money.

Speaker 1 Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 Now, to think about, you know, crying next to a stranger, I get how maybe dramas, I'd rather maybe see that at home on a streamer. I get that.

Speaker 2 What I don't get is that there isn't the desire for a shared experience with laughter in a group of people. Like, so tell us what you guys think.

Speaker 2 What is your theory of why comedy is such a hard sell in movie theaters nowadays?

Speaker 1 I'm going to jump in real quick with a super fast answer than you guys do. It's because comedy now you can get on your phone in little tiny bites and you're fulfilled.
And I think that has the

Speaker 1 same.

Speaker 1 I got to run. I got to run.
TikTok. I've been taken off.
TikTok is so so sorry. I'll talk to you guys later.
Sean Hayes, brought to you by Netflix. Yes, exactly.

Speaker 1 TikTok. By the way, think about it.
People used to go to theaters to watch porns together.

Speaker 1 What do you think about stereotypes? That's over now.

Speaker 1 Right, Sean? That's over now.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 I think

Speaker 3 a lot of comedy has gone to live on streaming and

Speaker 3 TikTok in short form. However, I do think that theatrical audience is there.
I thought Jen Lawrence's movie, No Hard Feelings, was a good shot at it. And I do think

Speaker 1 Tom got right? Yeah, Tom Rothman. Yes.
Tom Rothman. You're back.

Speaker 3 I'm going to give Tom Rothman too. Anyone but you came out and worked theatre.

Speaker 1 Thank you, Mike, for showing Jason up. Jason, Tommy's so mad at you.
I knew Tom Mood is. Tommy's mad at you now.
Also, comedy is different now. Comedy is different than when we grew up.

Speaker 1 It's told in a different way.

Speaker 3 But I think if you had, you know, if you, if you had,

Speaker 3 we want to bring Rated Comedy back. We want to bring romantic comedy back.
But if you think, I do think if, I do think it's a case if you build it, they will come.

Speaker 3 We just, so much of the talent, the new talent has gone directly right into

Speaker 3 streaming

Speaker 3 and TikTok and YouTube that we're just trying to steer them back to, look, let's take a shot with an original script. Let's take a shot with a script.

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 we had Blum on here a while ago. Jason Blum, yeah.
Jason Blum, because he, yeah. Tracy knows because she heard it.

Speaker 1 And we had Blum on here because he basically forced us to have him on. And

Speaker 1 we love it. We love him.
We We love him. We love him.
It's a joke. He was amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we love him.

Speaker 1 I couldn't love him more.

Speaker 1 But we did talk to him about the, because he was, you know, he's obviously the master of horror and

Speaker 1 horror.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he,

Speaker 1 he, I said, why can't we make a comedy? He said, you just can't make any money.

Speaker 1 And he was quite blunt about it. We're going to prove him right.

Speaker 3 Well, I'm just suspicious of blanket statements like that because everybody says,

Speaker 3 so my career is 40 years now, since 1985.

Speaker 1 You look correct.

Speaker 3 Every time someone says, thank you so much, I moisturize.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 3 every time someone says this will never work again, and then something comes out and proves it wrong.

Speaker 3 I remember the R-rated comedy was dead, and then American Pie came out, and suddenly everybody had to have an R-rated comedy.

Speaker 3 Hollywood can be such a pack animal sometimes.

Speaker 3 And I just am very suspicious of blanket statements.

Speaker 1 And reactionary, too, right? Yes, very. Yeah, one of the greatest things I ever heard is everybody wants to be the second person to say yes.

Speaker 1 That's a great quote.

Speaker 4 Yeah, but it's more fun being first through the door.

Speaker 1 That's true. But of course.

Speaker 3 You know, look, this could be famous last words, but for better or worse, Pam and I feel like you can't do this job if you're afraid of getting fired. You got to be fearless in it because

Speaker 3 if you breed risk out of the system, then innovation dies and the customer moves on.

Speaker 4 And it also breeds a culture of people not wanting to pitch. exciting new ideas.
And just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it's not going to work.

Speaker 4 And I just think you could do both.

Speaker 3 You can walk your shoot them at the same time. You can mine your IP, your franchises, but you can also try to find that next generation of filmmakers that will give you new franchises.

Speaker 2 Speaking of IP, you know, you mentioned earlier you're a big comic book collector, Mike. And so, you know, one of the things you guys get to oversee is DC and James, James Gunn, and

Speaker 2 Peter Safran in there. And tell us what you're excited about coming out of there.

Speaker 3 Well, we actually have to stipulate DC reports directly to David Zaslov. We don't oversee it, but we were big supporters of Peter and James taking the job.

Speaker 1 Work in concert with.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we agree that that label

Speaker 3 really could have used. We thought our advice when we were asked is it doesn't need another career executive.
It needs a storyteller in charge.

Speaker 3 We were really impressed with Pixar. They brought Pete Doctor, who's a filmmaker in from the field, to be chief content officer and preside over their slate of movies.

Speaker 3 And James, you know, I've been, I used to chase James as a producer, you you know, when he did Slither and started with his low-budget movies. And he's really unique.

Speaker 3 And I think DC is in great hands with the two of them. We've seen an early cut of Superman.
And

Speaker 3 I don't want to bury the lead. There's a lot of marketing about to roll out on the way to its release.

Speaker 3 He really understood the assignment.

Speaker 3 His heart's in the right place. His aim is true.
And we're really excited about their new version of DC. That's great.

Speaker 1 Yeah, James is great.

Speaker 2 It's awesome for the whole studio, though, too, because it allows for you to sort of cross-promote. And like, what is the rising tides? Will, what's the saying?

Speaker 1 Well, all boats. All boats, right? Right.

Speaker 1 What do you guys think about it? I'd be going to love the real world at some point.

Speaker 1 I just knew I was going to get it slightly wrong. Honestly, it's really enjoyable.
It's nice that you guys have each other's backs. I know, I love it.
Yeah, it's so funny.

Speaker 1 What do you guys think about, like, remember Quibby when Quibby came out, which I may have may have remembered? You promised to never bring up Quibby again. Come on, Sean.
What are you doing?

Speaker 1 Wait. Now

Speaker 1 you hurt Rothman. Now you're hurting Jeffrey.

Speaker 1 I didn't say anything about it. I just said, do you remember it?

Speaker 1 I do remember it. Okay.

Speaker 1 And I just read an I didn't read the whole thing. I read a blurb about that.

Speaker 1 That's coming back now, like short, short little things, like short episodes that are two minutes long and they're really picking up. And kids on social media are loving it.

Speaker 1 They want a whole season of like two-minute episodes and 10 two-minute episodes or something that tells a story. What do you think about that? Is that true? And is that really picking up steam?

Speaker 3 Yeah, I personally think

Speaker 3 YouTube and TikTok and some of the platforms are really about user-generated content.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 3 I think that's great. And I think some of the user-generated content kind of will evolve into scripted content occasionally.

Speaker 3 But

Speaker 3 in a way, when Quibi debuted, I'm not an MBA. I'm not half as smart as a lot of the people involved who ran that company.
And

Speaker 3 I would never say that I know better. I did think, though, like YouTube kind of has that base covered even then in terms of, and

Speaker 3 I thought

Speaker 3 what people really love about those platforms and short form content is that it's user-generated.

Speaker 3 There's no distributor involved.

Speaker 3 It's the creator directly to their audience.

Speaker 1 That's right. And it's for those platforms.

Speaker 3 And I think that's kind of wonderful. Yeah, about that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean,

Speaker 1 I actually do think that it was a sort of a valiant effort to try to do that and to and to get into that space but i think that you're right and i think that it seems to be one of the one of the mistakes that is consistently made is that people try to jump out of their lane and there's nothing wrong with taking chances but they they they say well we're now we're going to do the thing we're going to try to create this and then make it into a movie well no it is that it shouldn't be that it's like when they make the doc you know that documentary that everybody loved uh during the pandemic right and then they go let's make it into a movie well they've already got the documentary They know the fucking story.

Speaker 1 Why are we doing that again? I think the same thing.

Speaker 1 Well, then why did you never said that then?

Speaker 1 Why did I have to say it? And then you can just agree as if you don't get to. You're the second guy, the second guy in.

Speaker 1 No, this is a line. You can agree with me and say, yeah, you're really smart, but you don't get to have any ownership of it.

Speaker 1 But wait a minute, I agree, but there are examples where that has happened, but it worked where the documentary, I mean, the film of the documentary is actually engaging and thoughtful and successful.

Speaker 3 I mean, sometimes when we did

Speaker 3 Captain Phillips

Speaker 3 with Scott Rudin and Dana Brunetti,

Speaker 3 the impetus was we were watching the news.

Speaker 3 You get a version of the story from the news, but

Speaker 3 we were thinking, gee, the news can't tell you what's being said inside that lifeboat or

Speaker 3 what the hijackers are saying to Captain Phillips. And when you can dramatize,

Speaker 3 because I did Moneyball, Captain Phillips, and Social Network, all based on true stories.

Speaker 3 And the neat thing about dramatizing true stories, whether you're adapting a documentary or working off a non-fiction book, is you can bring audiences dramatic structure, which are peaks and valleys and, you know, moments that you can.

Speaker 1 I'm the captain now.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I'm the and that was that was an improv line, too. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. I'm the captain now.
And by the way, I remember reading Moneyball. That was 2003.
The great Michael Lewis. When that book came out.
The great Michael Lewis, absolutely. The great Michael Lewis.

Speaker 1 I've read all his books. These guys have never read a book in their lives.
And I read that book. My ears work.
They read book reviews, though, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 But I remember thinking at the time, when I heard that they were making Moneyball into a film, I thought, if you've read the book, you think, well, how the fuck are they going to do that, right?

Speaker 2 Or Social Network, like, I want to see a fucking movie about it.

Speaker 1 And it was incredible. I loved Moneyball, the film.

Speaker 3 We had the, I mean, Aaron Storkin, who's one of the, if not the best working screenwriter, certainly one of the greats on social network.

Speaker 3 And he co-wrote Moneyball with Steve Zelian, who wrote Chandler's List. I mean, these are incredible screenwriters, and they were able to find the human story.
Obviously,

Speaker 3 it's amazing.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 if you've read the book, you realize how brilliant those screenplays are.

Speaker 2 But talk a little bit

Speaker 2 if you don't think it's going to be a sleeping pill, like my questions are.

Speaker 2 Is there an interesting story

Speaker 2 that Tracy might be interested to hear about how, when you do a true story, how do you put the words into the mouth of real people without getting sued?

Speaker 2 Like, how do you, how does Aaron Sorkin go off and say, all right, now, you know,

Speaker 2 Mark Zuckerberg says this. Because it's a dramatization.

Speaker 1 It's not.

Speaker 2 I know, but you're using real people.

Speaker 1 So there's legal safe harbor you can put in.

Speaker 3 Basically, the way, not to get too, too boring about it, but basically if you're not derogatory or defamatory, you know, you have dramatic license, certainly, to make up dialogue.

Speaker 3 You also, we do a legal vetting of every screenplay based on a true story. And it it goes through this vetting process of

Speaker 3 are you on the right side of the derogatory and defamatory lines?

Speaker 1 That's the risk we're running here.

Speaker 3 And can you back up things that you're alleging through documentation? On Social Network, we had the transcripts of the lawsuit that Ed Savarin brought against Zuckerberg.

Speaker 3 And if you remember the movie, that's kind of home base for Aaron.

Speaker 3 Those depositions and that lawsuit are kind of what he cuts back to as the story's being told. So he was on safe ground there.

Speaker 3 On Moneyball and Captain Phillips, we actually negotiated the life rights of each of the people. So

Speaker 3 we had sewn them up before the movies were shot. But then

Speaker 2 does that give them the right to then look at the script and say, no, I didn't say that or I would never say that.

Speaker 1 Take it out? Or was it

Speaker 1 necessarily?

Speaker 1 They sent it away before.

Speaker 3 Now, of course, you don't want to, you try to be responsible because you don't want people saying when the movie comes out, you know, going on a PR jihad that, oh,

Speaker 1 this ruined my reputation.

Speaker 3 Moneyball was actually great because we made our deal with Major League Baseball, and they were the gatekeepers, and all we had to do was make sure Major League Baseball approved the script and approved the kind of movie.

Speaker 4 It is helpful when you have the life rights of people and you bring them into the tent. Like films, just I worked on World Trade Center.

Speaker 4 We had John and Will's rights, on Aaron Brockovich, Aaron's rights, on this film Freedom Writers years ago, this teacher, Aaron Gruhl. It was based on, you know, we had the kids involved.

Speaker 4 We changed the kids' names to protect them and their background, But it was so helpful to have that authenticity and to have that collaboration with the real people.

Speaker 2 But sometimes then your hands are tied, though, because it's a true story. Maybe the ending isn't as movie-ish as you might want it to be.

Speaker 2 And then you have to deviate from the real story and create some weird ending.

Speaker 1 Let's ask somebody who loves having their hands tied, Sean. Sean would be.
So I would prefer

Speaker 1 a twist. I'd prefer a twist.

Speaker 2 That's with the glow stick in your teeth.

Speaker 1 Sorry, pays to have their hands tied.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 before we let you guys go, can you talk a little bit about what you guys might be collectively or separately excited about that's coming out of Warner Brothers that the audience can be looking forward to?

Speaker 2 You guys want to separately say which is your favorite? You can't say which is your favorite coming out, but that's like asking a parent, like

Speaker 1 all our babies. Yeah, no.
But

Speaker 1 what's coming up next that you're excited about? You're excited about all of them. What's coming up?

Speaker 3 Well, look, this is this, this is, this, you know, I'm a little biased about New Line because I started my career there. So it's just neat for me to have it back in my life.

Speaker 1 Final Destination 6 is a fantastic theatrical experience. It's amazing.
It is so much fun. It's incredible.
It is so much fun.

Speaker 3 And then we have Zach's movie, Weapons, which is his follow-up to Barbarian, which is completely original.

Speaker 1 No way to see it.

Speaker 3 Again, an incredible audience response. And Paul Thomas Anderson has made a movie

Speaker 1 with DiCaprio.

Speaker 3 It's so of its moment.

Speaker 1 I mean, we're going to drop.

Speaker 3 That was a teaser. There's going to be another trailer.
It's so unique and so of the moment. I think that's going to really blow people away.
We have Brad Pitt's F1 movie that's just

Speaker 3 a fun, big Jerry Bruckheimer Joe Kaczynski production.

Speaker 1 And they're a day one. Nobody's a bigger fan than

Speaker 1 Cool It Well.

Speaker 3 It's Brad Pitt at his Brad Pittiest.

Speaker 3 It's just so, it's really, it's really amazing to watch him in that movie.

Speaker 3 And then, you know, again, as a comic comic book geek, I'm really up for, I think, I cannot wait for this, for the world to see James' new Superman.

Speaker 1 That's great.

Speaker 4 I'm excited. So I'm excited for all of our sleeve.
And we have Mortal Kombat as well, too, in the fall, which is super fun.

Speaker 4 And I'm really excited for some of the stuff we have in post. I mean, we started, we relaunched the animation.

Speaker 3 Oh, yeah, Will, we relaunched Warner Animation to stand on the shoulders of Lego Movie and Lego Batman.

Speaker 2 Oh, Will, you're, I guess, not included in that, though.

Speaker 1 We're going to have you back. Warner Animation Group is back.
It's back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think I feel like I sunk you guys with Teen Titans Go to the Movies, which is actually a great movie if you've ever seen it. What's it called?

Speaker 1 It's a phenomenal movie. What's it called? Teen Titans Go to the Movies.

Speaker 1 I love that movie. No, I love that film.
I hear that. That's great.
And I convinced, you know, we worked with those writers, Aaron and

Speaker 1 Michael, are brilliant. They're brilliant.

Speaker 3 I agree. Yeah.
I think James and Peter are working on a live-action Teen Titans, but and a new and a new Teen Titans go, I think, actually.

Speaker 1 Will, you maybe you could read for that. You play pretty young.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're really excited about the new animation label.

Speaker 4 Yeah, our first movie next year is Cat in the Hat with Hayter as the cat. Bill Hayers.

Speaker 1 Really, really excited for that.

Speaker 3 And I was in the direct, like, like Jason Bateman, Bill Hayter's a director that we hope to have making movies at the studio.

Speaker 1 Bill's great director, too.

Speaker 4 Yeah, we have Emerald Finnell's movie Wuthering Heights next year. We have Maggie Gyllenhaus movie, The Bride next year.
So we're really, we're really jazzed about

Speaker 4 the eclectic slate we're trying to build here with the existing IP and

Speaker 4 filmmaker driven.

Speaker 2 It is really exciting that you guys are there and doing what you're doing and the way that you're doing it. And I'm so excited for you.

Speaker 2 The success.

Speaker 2 I don't know when this is going to air, but Minecraft and Sinners, double barrel,

Speaker 2 blockbusters coming out of the gate this month. And so just

Speaker 2 congratulations to you guys.

Speaker 3 Oh, Jack's the best.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 3 Look, man, it's the best. Like we love, when you love movies, it's the best job in the world.
You know, we've been obsessed with movies since we were toddlers, and to be able to do this is we're

Speaker 3 true.

Speaker 2 You can tell with the films, you guys are giving your yeses to. So please keep doing that.
And

Speaker 2 thank you very much for joining us today.

Speaker 1 You guys are.

Speaker 1 Oh, my God. Thank you.

Speaker 3 What an honor. Thank you guys so much.
We love

Speaker 1 Smartless. So great.
Thank you.

Speaker 2 Please now go back to your busy day and green lights.

Speaker 1 Well, this is the most fun we're going to have today. So thank you you for this.

Speaker 1 Thank you guys so much. Thank you, guys.
Thanks, guys. Bye.
Have a great day. Bye-bye.
See you later.

Speaker 2 So, guys, you know, I got to mix it up a little bit.

Speaker 1 Yes,

Speaker 1 you know. I've been talking to them for a lot longer.

Speaker 1 It was so interesting to talk to that kind of caliber of people on the show. I know.
We never get to talk to those people.

Speaker 1 We're always talking about them or about studios or about people who work for the studio.

Speaker 2 They are running the studio.

Speaker 1 They are in control of what America is seeing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Fascinating.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And they've got such good taste.
And usually those folks don't get hired to do such a corporately responsible job. And they manage to balance the two.

Speaker 2 I'm just, I'm really fascinated with how they're able to do both that.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 God, you're so stupid. I'm so dumb.
I know.

Speaker 2 It would be hard for me. You know, I can't do two things at once.
I can do it.

Speaker 1 You see me try to shoot them?

Speaker 1 I was going to like, imagine if I was in charge. Do you think we'd have bridges and roads?

Speaker 1 There would be nothing. We'd all be huddled under a tree if I had been in charge.

Speaker 2 Yeah, how do you think you would do at running a studio, Will?

Speaker 1 I would say terrible. I'd run into the ground one week.
What about you, Shawnee? You would. I would love it.

Speaker 2 I think I would really love it too. I don't think I'd be any good at it, but I would love it just

Speaker 2 for a week to be on the buying side, right?

Speaker 1 I think I could do it.

Speaker 2 Get to sit there and just say, yes, tell me.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I think it'd be super fun. And like I said, I think you'd both be horrible.
You'd drive everybody who'd worked for you crazy. Everybody'd hate you both.

Speaker 1 Knowing you both as well as I do, everybody who'd work there would fucking hate the hell out of you.

Speaker 2 Snacks. Snacks would be sneaking.

Speaker 1 And they wouldn't be able to tell you.

Speaker 1 Neither of you are self-aware in any real way. You'd have a gummy,

Speaker 2 a gummy closet, a chips closet.

Speaker 1 But you know what? The chocolate closet. You'd have the snacks.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, wait, I got one. Oh, here he comes.

Speaker 1 But the biggest movie that they did was so great. What was it last year? What was it about? The Hasbro, The Doll? What was it?

Speaker 1 Bar.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 it's not by.

Speaker 1 So you can't use it. But we've been lazy.
No. Try another title.

Speaker 1 If you want to find a word that does reference. Barbie.
You can just go and look up and use some help from A-by.

Speaker 1 No, no, not there on it.

Speaker 1 That's not a word either. Bar-by would have been great.

Speaker 2 Let's see here.

Speaker 1 Barbai? Yeah, Barbie. Yeah, Barb.
Barbai.

Speaker 1 That would have been great.

Speaker 2 Okay. You know know what? I just check with the judges.
They will allow.

Speaker 1 You know what? Hang on. I'm going to look at a word and you two, I'm going to put both of you on standby.
Bye.

Speaker 2 Very good.

Speaker 1 Bye.

Speaker 1 No, that's a bye.

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