"RE-RELEASE: Don Cheadle"

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Speaker 1 Hi, everybody. How is your day today?

Speaker 2 Are you asking us or the audience and you're expecting an answer from you know the audience is not Mike?

Speaker 3 Because you got it.

Speaker 2 Sorry.

Speaker 1 Well, no, I was asked, oh, they're not?

Speaker 2 Since when you call me and JB everybody. Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, I call you guys the audience.

Speaker 3 Because you think that's the only people listening to you? It's just us two? You've got higher responsibilities in that.

Speaker 2 Let's come with the good stuff. Judging by this opening, we're up there.
It's going to be a great Smartlist. Welcome to it.

Speaker 3 Sean, what's on your cap there? Is that a college?

Speaker 1 It's ISU, Illinois State University, where I have an honorary doctorate and a scholarship fund set up for people who want to go into music or the arts and acting.

Speaker 2 Are they still accredited? I mean, after that, you got a diploma. I heard that after they give you a diploma, that they were stripped of their power.

Speaker 3 That's like a real on, is that an online university?

Speaker 1 I still wear my sash to bed.

Speaker 2 Once they did an assessment of your intellect, they're like, we gave this guy a fucking diploma.

Speaker 3 Did you really go to ISU?

Speaker 1 I went to Illinois State University. Yeah, it's one of the greatest colleges ever.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Well, hang on. Let's quickly Google that.

Speaker 2 Let's see how much. Because I don't think you're going to like that.
For theater. For theater.
By the way, you know who went there?

Speaker 1 Me, Jane Lynch, Craig Robinson, and I were music majors together.

Speaker 2 I know, we've

Speaker 2 had them on the podcast. I know, we talked about that.
We talked about it for like half an hour.

Speaker 3 Hey, Arnett, where'd you go to school?

Speaker 2 I didn't. I dropped out, man.
No, but you did. You went to boarding school.
You know where I went? I went to fucking hard knocks, dude. Oh, bro.
The streets.

Speaker 1 Hard knock life with Annie.

Speaker 2 Toronto. The streets of Toronto.
Did you go?

Speaker 3 You went to.

Speaker 2 Excuse me.

Speaker 3 Excuse me. You went to

Speaker 3 additional voluntary school?

Speaker 2 I did for half a year. Half a year.

Speaker 2 I love you going. Just made me voluntary.

Speaker 3 No, access you to invert that. Voluntary additional school.

Speaker 3 And yeah, I just didn't understand the concept of that. You know?

Speaker 2 Well, yeah.

Speaker 3 I now have an option to not go. So taking that option.

Speaker 2 Sure. Kind of good joke.
Yeah, sure. I'd love to.

Speaker 2 Jump in. I didn't realize that you were grabbing the reins here.
We were just merrily going down a path, but

Speaker 2 let's talk more about your school.

Speaker 2 Let's talk more about your school. I didn't come.
No, no, let's not. Here we go, ready?

Speaker 1 The best gift I ever received was a broken drum.

Speaker 2 You can't beat it.

Speaker 2 Okay. That's all right.
That's okay.

Speaker 3 He doesn't claim these to be great jokes.

Speaker 2 I got a couple laughs in the background there.

Speaker 3 You should say, do you want to hear a dad joke? If you say that,

Speaker 2 I don't

Speaker 3 think people are ready for something good. Dad joke means it's not.

Speaker 2 I don't like the term dad joke. I think that that's

Speaker 2 lazy. Call it a job.

Speaker 3 How about bad joke? Just say bad joke so people aren't expecting to like.

Speaker 2 Like a pun. Yeah.
That's okay to say.

Speaker 1 I got one more. You got one more? Are there any mom jokes? Here's a mom joke.
What's faster, hot or cold?

Speaker 2 Hot. You can always catch a cold.

Speaker 3 That's good.

Speaker 2 That's good.

Speaker 2 That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 I guarantee you at least one of our listeners will be using that today after they get out of their car

Speaker 3 or off their subway or done with their jog.

Speaker 2 Right. You know, it's fun.
You're welcome.

Speaker 2 I love just. No, hang on, Sean.
I love Jason Shine to imagine what regular people do.

Speaker 2 It's so fun.

Speaker 2 They get on the subway and then they job.

Speaker 2 And then they kiss their kids goodbye, walk out door, go to job,

Speaker 2 say hi, boss, office.

Speaker 2 Want to hear a joke? Dear. Want to hear a joke at water cooler with me.
I love Succession 2.

Speaker 2 What are you watching? I'm also watching Succession. Are you watching it? I am also worried about saying that I don't like it.
You're worried that you're saying it. I do like it.
I'm just

Speaker 2 the joke. Not

Speaker 3 a real good opening patter, everybody.

Speaker 2 Did everybody sleep well?

Speaker 1 I slept really well.

Speaker 3 Patter's over. Let's get to our high-level guest.

Speaker 2 I think really good, though. Did you? For the first time.
Actually, that is worth it.

Speaker 3 Do you want to us about your sleep?

Speaker 2 It's not going to wait for your sleep report. Well, it's very rare that he has good sleep.
Before we get into it, it is true, Sean, and I'm happy for you.

Speaker 2 And there's nobody, we talk about it all the time. Right.

Speaker 2 sean yesterday morning jb sean uh i said to him hey you got a second let me know when you got a second like seven i'm up at six i said let me know when you got it was like seven it was at seven he calls me and i go and i thought that he was back you know his usual thing he wakes up in the middle of the night and then he goes back to bed at 6 30 until 10 it's whatever yeah and he was up and he'd been up since 3 30.

Speaker 2 3 30. he's been on a bad run of not being able to sleep so So I slept all through the night.

Speaker 1 I got up to pee and I went right back to sleep.

Speaker 3 And why do you think that is? Did you load up on a a bunch of sugar before you went to bed?

Speaker 1 I did a little bit, but because of yesterday, I think that what Will's talking about, I think I ran myself around in circles like a little child being up at 3.30, and then I just crashed and it made me sleep all night long.

Speaker 1 It was awesome.

Speaker 2 You nap.

Speaker 3 Boy, what a fucking story.

Speaker 1 I'll nap like 10 minutes.

Speaker 2 I'll nap like 10 minutes. Anyway, so good that we stopped for that.
You were right, Will.

Speaker 2 Silly me.

Speaker 3 So today's guest is

Speaker 3 so immensely accomplished.

Speaker 2 We're going to see Bateman's face. What a fucking story.

Speaker 3 God, who else slept through the whole night? Make sure you call in.

Speaker 2 Our lines are open and

Speaker 3 love to hear about it.

Speaker 3 So our next guest is so accomplished and so

Speaker 3 universally loved. Okay.

Speaker 3 He's done everything.

Speaker 3 He's done television, film, theater.

Speaker 3 He's even got a Grammy, I believe.

Speaker 3 It's been comedy. It's been drama.
It's been popcorn movies. It's been Academy movies.

Speaker 3 I just don't know what else to say about this fellow, except he's a new friend.

Speaker 2 Oh, okay. Okay.

Speaker 3 We met online.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 he is also a Capricorn.

Speaker 3 And no, he is a new friend that I'm very excited about.

Speaker 3 He swings a mean golf club.

Speaker 2 The way that started was he swings.

Speaker 1 I know. I know.
I was like, uh-oh, what?

Speaker 3 He'll take you where you want to go on the weekends.

Speaker 2 Okay. Will, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 But listen, I love him. He's here.
Very kind of him to say yes because this is a big shot. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr.
Don Cheadle. Hello.

Speaker 2 I love Don Cheadle. People.

Speaker 2 What's happening? Good morning. Don.
Don Cheadle's done. You know what?

Speaker 3 I was trying to remember, Don.

Speaker 3 What is that great nickname that you were given because you're so smooth?

Speaker 2 I couldn't remember it.

Speaker 3 You told me this on the golf course.

Speaker 2 I think Kelly Slater said that was very Donchalant. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Donchalant.

Speaker 2 Is that a new nickname?

Speaker 1 That's really clever.

Speaker 2 I'm trying to put it out there.

Speaker 2 I was going to try to trademark it, but I was unsuccessful. Donchalante is out there now.
Just FYI. It's fully out there.
And if you happen to run into Don

Speaker 2 Cheeto on the streets, just immediately, Don Chalant. Yeah.
Let him know. Mr.
Chalant. You can single gun it or double gun it.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 Don.

Speaker 2 Don Chidel. Hi.
Good morning. What's up, gang?

Speaker 1 I love Don Cheeto.

Speaker 2 You know, the team was like, you've got to do these guys' podcasts.

Speaker 2 You're going to love them. I love all of you individually and collectively.

Speaker 2 Not as much when I sat through the banter.

Speaker 3 The early banter. It's like,

Speaker 3 remember the joy that Regis and Kathy Lee used to give you with that first 10 minutes of coffee pattern?

Speaker 3 That's what we're reaching for, Don. You know,

Speaker 2 it was a strong

Speaker 2 six minutes.

Speaker 2 Don Don where are we finding you right now because and the reason I ask is because you look like you're either coming from or going to the golf course because you're wearing a zip up but I want to say which is surprising because you are such you're so busy and rightfully so because you're always you fit in that category for me too of people who are always good no matter what the project is you're so consistently awesome all the time and wait until you see this one well

Speaker 2 i don't know

Speaker 2 um

Speaker 1 you know what? You know what Scottie?

Speaker 2 I appreciate that.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Scotty and I just watched just last week, not even knowing, obviously, that you were going to be on because you're Jason's guest. We watched Mission to Mars.
I was in that.

Speaker 1 And I was like, there's Don. Again, and you're brilliant in it.

Speaker 2 Always. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Because you know, I'll watch anything sci-fi.

Speaker 3 I am picking up on surprise in Sean's voice, though, right?

Speaker 2 When he says, and you're brilliant. It was like, no, no.
You were pretty good. No.
No, I meant to Will's point. I didn't know you were an actor.

Speaker 2 And that you could grow facial hair.

Speaker 2 I thought it was only Jason who could grow.

Speaker 3 This is not really facial hair.

Speaker 2 This is disgusting.

Speaker 2 No, it was right.

Speaker 2 So, Don, I'm in Atlanta. Will, to answer your question, I'm in Atlanta.

Speaker 3 You're in Atlanta. And

Speaker 3 what's happening there in Atlanta?

Speaker 3 Working on something, no doubt?

Speaker 2 I'm working on something. It's a project called Fight Night.

Speaker 2 And I am in this wonderful project with who you guys had on the show, Kevin Hart,

Speaker 2 Sam jackson yeah saraji henson yeah terrence howard wow yeah it's um

Speaker 2 it should be it should be i'm looking forward to it yeah i just i've shot one day so i'm you know i'm looking forward to she can still be fired they can still easily reshoot one day that works early enough yeah so watch it i've been replaced before it wouldn't be the first time no have you no i've been replaced before oh i have i've that's i didn't mean to bring her something pink

Speaker 2 i love the dungeon i love that dude's like no i have no sorry i was just kidding

Speaker 2 of course

Speaker 2 mine was the cruel

Speaker 2 ship

Speaker 3 mine mine was the cruelest though because i worked my nards off on this pilot we shot the pilot it went well so i thought and then like a couple of days before the big announcements happen about whether pilots are going to get picked up to go to series i get a call from my agent saying uh you uh are going to um

Speaker 3 good news bad news good news is your show got picked up and i said unbelievable he goes here let me finish finish. The bad news is that they're going to go a different direction with your character.

Speaker 2 And I said, okay.

Speaker 3 Two days later, found out they're actually not picking up the show. So did you? I mean, it's just like the worst 48 hours.

Speaker 2 So good, bad, good. Well, but I couldn't.

Speaker 2 I agree with Donald.

Speaker 3 I could have been spared all of it by just them saying, well, we're not picking up the show.

Speaker 2 Basically, we're all fired.

Speaker 3 You know,

Speaker 2 are you still with this agent? Yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 No, no, no. That's the three or four.

Speaker 2 But it's good to know. I like it is personal a little bit because they were like, hey, we know the show's not getting picked up, but let's let Bateman know that even if it did, he wasn't coming away.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 In the event that this is going forward, not you.

Speaker 2 Not you.

Speaker 2 I got fired off a pilot that went to series the year before we started Arrested Development.

Speaker 3 Oh, God bless.

Speaker 2 And had I not been, I would have been stuck on that show.

Speaker 2 Don, wait a second. So you're in Atlanta.
You're doing this thing with Sam Jackson.

Speaker 2 Are you potentially playing golf with Sam today?

Speaker 2 You know, Sam has been on IR for a minute. I hope he comes off because I would love to.
You know, we used to play a lot, but

Speaker 2 he's nursing an injury or two. So

Speaker 2 fingers crossed.

Speaker 3 How's his game?

Speaker 2 Sam was like a four.

Speaker 2 What? Wow. Yeah.
Damn it. Wow.
Because all these people, the game is just so easy to so many people.

Speaker 2 Well, you know, Sam famously, you know, whenever he would get a gig, a part of his contract was they had to get him a membership to whatever local course there was because he's such a freak about it.

Speaker 2 So he knows shit. Yeah, he played everywhere.
I was like, you can do that? Sam also was, you know, Mr., if you force me, you're bringing me $900 in cash in an envelope the next day like a drug deal.

Speaker 2 I was like, this, this dude's my hero. Yeah.
That's by the way, Jason. You could, Jason, right now, you see, you look down, he's he's got, he's just gone on his phone on speeddell to CAA right now.

Speaker 2 He's like,

Speaker 2 what the fuck?

Speaker 3 You thought 12 country clubs short, damn it.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 3 All right. Now, how do you like, how do you like Atlanta? You know, I've worked there a lot, and

Speaker 3 I always thought that it was not going to be a place for me. And every time I work there, I just love it more and more and more.

Speaker 3 Are you enjoying yourself there? You've worked there a bunch, yes?

Speaker 2 I've worked here a bunch because a lot of the Marvel stuff was here. Right.
Oh, right.

Speaker 1 And I've kind of been around it a little bit more but this is probably the longest stretch that i'm going to be here so i'm looking forward to like getting up to the mountains and into the lakes and just checking it all out so so i did a movie there a long time ago in atlanta during the summer did you guys shoot those all those marvel movies in like the summertime because you can't breathe it's so hot hot atlanta hotlina yeah yeah and and and how do you you're in those costumes and running around in that heat is that what it is and you're in space

Speaker 2 yeah i mean i think that was the. Oh, there's a callback.
I was like, oh, good one. No, but I mean, isn't that brutal? Yeah, it's brutal.

Speaker 2 I mean, I was, you know, I'm from Kansas City, Missouri, where, you know, 98 degrees and 98% humidity. So I was, I was, I was born for this.
Yeah. You know? Yeah.

Speaker 2 But yeah, it's not, it's not fun. But right now, it's very cold, actually.
Yeah, it gets cold there. I like it too.
I like it too. I like JB.

Speaker 2 I spent the last few years about, last year I spent six months, I think, almost in Atlanta. And I really really liked it.
I really liked the people.

Speaker 2 Once you find a kind of a good zone where you can find your stuff and whatever, I liked it a lot. Find a zone.
But I was down in like, I was down like

Speaker 2 right near sort of little five points, like all in there. Like, that's where I was staying.
It was awesome. A lot of great, like restaurants.

Speaker 2 Okay. Okay.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, Jason, have you had enough? Yeah, that's it.
You opened it.

Speaker 2 You opened it. You opened it.
This is like a

Speaker 2 fucking court case.

Speaker 3 Good sleep last night, Don?

Speaker 2 You know, what's hilarious when Sean was talking about that is I was very jealous because I did not sleep well last night. That's what I'm saying.
I had the worst episode we've ever recorded. Right.

Speaker 2 We're right 17 minutes. And what I did.

Speaker 2 No, no, it's all my fault. It's all my fault.

Speaker 3 I'm talking about fucking Atlanta.

Speaker 2 We're talking about the weather.

Speaker 3 We're talking about sleep.

Speaker 2 It's like, let's get to something hard hitting. Now, somebody told me the other day that Kansas City, here we go.

Speaker 3 Kansas City is actually split right down the middle, the border between Kansas and Missouri.

Speaker 2 You still don't have it. JKB, you still don't have it.

Speaker 2 You still haven't got it. That's a whiff.
No, no.

Speaker 2 Help me.

Speaker 2 People? No, no, no.

Speaker 2 There's one in Kansas and there's a Kansas City in Missouri.

Speaker 2 I mean, they're close.

Speaker 3 Wait, there's two different places called Kansas City.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God. No, honestly.
I know. John's about to leave.
John, this is every day, by the way.

Speaker 3 54 years old, and

Speaker 3 I'm just now getting clarity on this.

Speaker 2 Let's do it publicly.

Speaker 3 There are two places called Kansas City. One's in Missouri, one's in Kansas.

Speaker 2 Correct. And which one's got the Kansas border?

Speaker 3 Which one's got the Royals?

Speaker 2 Missouri. Missouri.

Speaker 3 Missouri's got what?

Speaker 2 Let me just say this.

Speaker 2 Don, take a look at JB's face. Now, JB, walk Don through the gummy routine.
This is going to explain a lot. Walk him through the timing and the gummy.
Guys, I'm still up.

Speaker 2 I'm still up from last night's chew.

Speaker 2 No, now we talked about this this a little bit on the golf course. I don't remember.
I don't know if you remember. I'm sure you don't remember because your gummy program is in the middle.

Speaker 3 No, never, never when I'm golfing. Golfing's serious business.

Speaker 2 You said that. Now, wait a second.

Speaker 2 But what sports team does Kansas City, Kansas

Speaker 2 have? The Royals? He's still. He's here.
Is it the Royals?

Speaker 2 It's crazy. No, no, honestly.
Is it the Royals are in Kansas? Do you know what I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Do we want to just ask, go to like the internet?

Speaker 3 Kansas City, Kansas has nothing. Is that correct? Yeah.
No sports teams. No professional sports teams.

Speaker 2 Yeah, man. I'll let it rest now.
Just look it up. Okay.
I hope I'm going to be able to do it.

Speaker 2 Honestly, honestly, they're all looking it up, America. I've never looked into it this deeply.
You might be absolutely right. I just

Speaker 2 not right. He's not right.
No, are you right? Kansas City, Kansas has the Royals.

Speaker 1 Are there any sports teams in Kansas City, Kansas?

Speaker 3 I'm so sorry, America.

Speaker 1 And specifically, Kansas City has had teams in all five of the major professional sports leagues. Three major leagues remain today.

Speaker 3 Is that Missouri or is that Kansas?

Speaker 1 That's Kansas City, Kansas.

Speaker 2 Okay. Wait, who's in Kansas City, Kansas? I don't know.

Speaker 3 Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2 Boy, this is, again, this is Kansas City.

Speaker 3 We're going to pick this up. Hey, Don, how'd you get started in the business?

Speaker 2 Yeah, no. I want to know.
JB, fuck you. You have it.

Speaker 2 I want to know that. I have a little porn called Don Shalantis.

Speaker 1 No, I do want to know because to me, I've seen you in so many things. And like Will said, always brilliant.
Like, to me, you were born on screen. Like, I don't know anything about you other than the

Speaker 1 other than we run into each other a few times and had lovely conversations. But tell me, how did you get like you were in theater in high school?

Speaker 2 Well, sidebar, we almost

Speaker 2 played around with doing a movie together at one point. I remember.
I don't know if you ever got that off.

Speaker 1 I did. It didn't do well.

Speaker 2 Did you get it off? Yeah, it didn't do well.

Speaker 1 But thank you for your consideration.

Speaker 2 Next up, next up,

Speaker 3 way to dodge a bullet, Don.

Speaker 2 I was trying to give a compliment and went right in the trash bin.

Speaker 1 No, but did you, did you, were you interested in high school? Like what age, how early did you get the bug?

Speaker 2 So I kind of got the early acting bug. I think I was in fifth, sixth grade.

Speaker 2 I was Templeton the Rat in a production of Charlotte's Webb that was written about extensively in the

Speaker 2 Denver, Colorado periodicals. You can look it up.
I'm sure it's still there. No, I'm not asking.

Speaker 2 Templeton. And I was singled out.

Speaker 2 was i'm just saying i was singled out so uh

Speaker 2 the standout was the rat yeah and when cheetah hits the stage hold on to your yeah um so i did that but i was also doing music um kind of at the same time that's when i got uh involved in in playing my saxophone and instrumental jazz and so i kind of was on these two tracks of of really studying music and i when i went to high school i had a great acting coach, a great acting teacher, a great drama class.

Speaker 2 And I was in a really, a really good jazz band. So I was kind of on these two tracks.

Speaker 2 And when I graduated from high school, I had applied for both things to go into music, to go into vocal jazz, to go into instrumental jazz, and also to study acting and theater acting.

Speaker 2 And I got some scholarship money from a bunch of different places. And I kind of made...

Speaker 1 For acting or music or both?

Speaker 2 Both.

Speaker 2 I had both. Wow.
But I kind of made not only a weather choice, but I think I made a choice based on what I believed I was going to be able to actually do.

Speaker 2 Because I grew up with musicians now who are like professional musicians and who are hugely successful and incredible.

Speaker 2 And I knew what it was going to take to actually be able to do that, go down that road and, you know, shedding and learning theory and doing all of those things that I was like, I'm not, I know I'm not going to do that.

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think I'm probably going to spend my time more being, being out of the house, being with other people and pursuing acting.
And I loved it as, I loved it equally.

Speaker 2 So I kind of went up that road.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's definitely science and math to music that you have to want to.

Speaker 2 And I think it kind of, I was intimidated by it a little bit, to be honest. I think I was a little, you know, I'd gotten by, I had a really good ear and I'd gotten by on really being able to.

Speaker 2 to hear music rather than understanding how it broke down. And I was kind of wide-eyed when it would, when I'd get into the weeds on that.
So I get that.

Speaker 2 It's like, I kind of ran into something that I felt more comfortable with. But it's funny that the music has kind of come back around, and that's become a bigger part of my career now, too.

Speaker 2 But, Don, did you ever, and Sean, forgive me for taking your question, but did you ever think about, you know, kind of like when that guy dropped the chocolate in the tub of peanut butter and they came up with the Reese's?

Speaker 2 Did you ever think of taking the music and dumping that into the theater and going into musical theater, Sean? Five, six, seven. Seven, eight.

Speaker 2 Did that ever,

Speaker 2 did you ever get into that stuff?

Speaker 3 Oh, he sure did. Let's talk about the Tonys.
Go ahead.

Speaker 2 Well, I've never gotten one. No, but I produced something that was

Speaker 2 an award-winning

Speaker 2 show called Strange Loop.

Speaker 2 Yes. Oh, my God.
That's right.

Speaker 2 With

Speaker 2 Barbara Whitman. Yes.
Yes. Right? Yes.

Speaker 1 And she produced the play I just did. That's right.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Congrats on that.
Thank you. Thank you.
Crazy. Great show.
But did you yourself, were you yourself at it like in high school or afterwards in college? Absolutely. Yes.
100%. I mean,

Speaker 2 when I graduated high school, the choice I made was to go to, I came to California and I studied at California Institute of the Arts.

Speaker 2 And we, you know, did everything there. Musicals and dramas and classical pieces.
We did everything. It was really a great

Speaker 2 experience for me and a place to be able to try everything and make a lot of mistakes and not get fired for it as a result.

Speaker 1 Get ready because I love horrible theater stories, things that go wrong. So just get one rental.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 They're the best. You can't wait.

Speaker 3 Before we get to one of those, can you guys extend your tolerance for my lack of intelligence again?

Speaker 2 Is Kansas City, are you going to go to the Chiefs and the Royals again? It's worn pretty thin at this point. It's

Speaker 2 very, very thick.

Speaker 2 If I'm on the border,

Speaker 2 no.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 1 Get them in the freezer aisle today.

Speaker 1 And now back to the show.

Speaker 3 So jazz, talk to me about jazz. Now, I'm a big music fan and specifically classical music.
And so I feel like if I love classical music, I could really love jazz because it's a little easier to love.

Speaker 2 It's a little bit more toe-tappy.

Speaker 3 But I got to understand it a little bit more. And I'm hearing that jazz, its real appeal is

Speaker 3 knowing that for the most part, it's improvised. Is that correct? Or

Speaker 3 is it more traditionally written out in their sheet music?

Speaker 2 That is a component of it. And I think the umbrella of jazz under that are many, many subdivisions and categories.
It's a huge sort of a blanket term, especially by now.

Speaker 2 You know, if you think of somebody like Robert Glasper, who I won a Grammy with for producing the

Speaker 2 album.

Speaker 2 Anyway, sorry, your cough sounds terrible. Your cough sounds terrible.
You're my second Grammy. Sorry.

Speaker 2 You've got a a really terrible cough. Yeah.
Thanks, Bill. Let me get words.
Water go. Wait, are you close to an egot? Two Grammys.

Speaker 2 Oh, no, clear. Your throat's clear now.
Let me get that looked. Okay, that's good now.

Speaker 3 Do you have a nomination egot?

Speaker 2 I think you do. Yes?

Speaker 2 I have a nomination egot, yes, but not.

Speaker 2 I don't have them all. Pretty fucking good.

Speaker 2 But like Rob Glasper, you look at his music and he, you know, he

Speaker 2 spans the globe of what his musical knowledge is and his experience. And he does popular stuff, black radio, which is sort of, I think you would think of more as like R ⁇ B influenced.

Speaker 2 And then he does straight ahead, you know, jazz and standards and he does everything in between.

Speaker 2 So I think if you were to ask a musician like that what jazz is, Or even if you were going to go back and ask, you know, Miles Davis what jazz was, he hated that word.

Speaker 2 He was like, that's a word to box somebody in. You know, it's about good music.
It's about social music.

Speaker 2 So I think there are different like when i get in the car and you know the driver taking you somewhere is like let's put on some jazz and he puts on smooth jazz it's like i want to shoot him yeah i hate right yeah i'm done done you have to don you have to forgive jason because they don't do explanations of jazz on the hollywood reporter homepage so he wouldn't read it

Speaker 2 but but let me just let me just say this we did this bit in our show flake

Speaker 2 Nothing. Okay.
So where we had where we did, this guy's getting ready to have this girl over for a date and and then his buddy suggests he

Speaker 2 put jazz on. And they look at each other, and they're like, and they're unsure.
And he goes, I'm not sure where I fall on jazz.

Speaker 2 And our joke was always that, like, I can't figure out if it's cool to say I do like it or if it's cool to say I don't like it. And I'm still trying to decide where I land on that.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 Me too. Like, I just feel like I, you know, everyone says you should go to New Orleans for the jazz festival or everyone you should listen to.

Speaker 2 And that's a very specific kind of jazz. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I'm more like, I'm open to it if there's a melody that I can hum back, like a song.

Speaker 1 I'm not open to the

Speaker 1 jazz that's just people just playing.

Speaker 2 Sort of fusion-y, improvised fusion. Is that the thing?

Speaker 1 But you can't latch on to anything.

Speaker 2 You can't whack off to anything?

Speaker 2 What? What is it?

Speaker 2 I love it all because if you're really, you know, if you're a new jazz, you can whack to it.

Speaker 2 Sorry. Jazz.
No, latch onto it. Grab your thing and have some fun.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 new channel. You heard it, JB.
You heard it too, right? I think I might have.

Speaker 3 So, Don,

Speaker 3 so you're learning the saxophone at an early age. That gets you into music.
That's eventually you find an appreciation for Miles Davis, and then that project comes about.

Speaker 3 That was a, what was that, a documentary that you produced?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no. A movie.
A film.

Speaker 3 And you played him?

Speaker 2 Yes. Yes.
Yes.

Speaker 3 We're not good journalists. Brilliantly.

Speaker 1 And I remember you telling me when I ran into you that you were working on that.

Speaker 3 Some nominations or even some wins for that, I believe.

Speaker 2 Well, that was the Grammy that we got for the soundtrack, which is really cool, the album we put together with Rob Lasper. He and I put that together.
So that was really cool.

Speaker 2 But yeah, I think it's a big category. I talk about jokes on shows.
We had one on Black Monday where I'm talking to...

Speaker 2 Thank you very much. I'm talking to Regina, Dawn, her name, the character's Dawn, about it.
And she goes, yeah, I can never get into jazz.

Speaker 2 It just always sounded like a bunch of instruments thrown down a flight of stairs.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Now,

Speaker 3 in my, in my incredible research,

Speaker 3 did you really work on The Fresh Prince?

Speaker 2 Funny enough, I did. I was on one of the first episodes of Fresh Prince, and I have a funny pilot-firing story, too.
I love it. About a pilot that didn't go.

Speaker 2 So I did the, I think it was the second or third episode of The Fresh Prince, where Will was still super green. He's like mouthing everyone's words, you know,

Speaker 2 along with his, so he'd say his line and then he's staring at you and you'd say your line.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's mouthing it. That's such a thing.

Speaker 2 We've all worked with people who do that. It's such an actor thing, right? Yeah.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Are you mouthing my dialogue to me as I'm saying?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 So he was so studious. You know, he knew everybody's lines and then he would like mouth everybody's lines.
But so we did that one.

Speaker 2 And by the third or fourth show, the creators at Susan and Andy Borowitz,

Speaker 2 who were the head writers on the show, they said, we want to do a show around you. Uh-oh.

Speaker 2 Not necessarily based on the character that you're playing on this, but we just want to do a show around you. And I was like, okay, so that's cool.
So they wrote this show.

Speaker 2 How old were you?

Speaker 2 When I did Fresh Prince. Yeah.
Early 20s? Is that really germane to the story? I mean, he's just going to come in with that. You offered your own show.
It's like, I was six, okay? I was fucking six.

Speaker 2 No, he's just jealous. He's just jealous because he's like, when are you getting offers for your own show? And he's like, I worked my whole life.
Michael Landon did create a show for me. Sorry, JP.

Speaker 2 I know that

Speaker 2 Michael Landon.

Speaker 2 So, no, I, this, so I did the third day, they come down, they're like, we want to do the show. I said, okay, great.
So they wrote this pilot. We shot the pilot.
It's called In the House.

Speaker 2 I wrote the theme song to the thing. You know, it was just, everything was great.

Speaker 2 Heavy saxophone. It

Speaker 2 super, super heavy saxophone.

Speaker 2 It was on the schedule. And I, you know, I'm pretty like, I don't believe it until I see it.
And I just kind of wasn't believing that it was real. And also, it just was a huge thing.

Speaker 2 It was the biggest thing that had happened in my career at that point. I was like, I don't, something's telling me this isn't real.
But it was on the schedule. It was going.

Speaker 2 So like the day before. I got this faithful call, I gave my brother my car.
I was like, hey, it's on. Take the car.
I'm about to have this huge windfall. Yeah.
It's, I'm ready.

Speaker 2 And the next day I got a call and they said it's off the schedule.

Speaker 2 It was how old I was was Brandon Tardikoff was still running NBC at that time. Okay.
We're a late age. Everybody, I don't know if people are listening.
Yeah. No.
Yeah. Brandon.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 But he, when he stepped down and Warren Littlefield came in, he killed all the shows that were in Brandon. And that was one of them.
That was one of the casuals.

Speaker 2 You know, Sean, Sean, you told me a story, and correct me if I'm wrong, about

Speaker 2 where you shot the pilot

Speaker 2 because they had mignonette sauce instead of cocktail sauce for your oysters. Is that true? And you guys were about to leave Van Huys, and

Speaker 2 you were so mad

Speaker 2 because you're like, I hate mignonette sauce. I like cocktail sauce.
You shot the pilot out the bump.

Speaker 1 But I spared the co-pilot.

Speaker 2 As a lesson, so he could live to tell the story to other pilots about to get the sausage right.

Speaker 3 Now, all right. So, now, Don, could you imagine if that show had taken off, became a big success, you would have been a big sitcom star.
I wonder where your career would have gone.

Speaker 2 I was thinking the same thing.

Speaker 3 Like, but, like, even so, going back before that, was there another significant fork in the road, either where you grew up, like a fateful move to a certain city, or what your parents were doing or saying, or siblings, where you could have easily seen, oh, if I'd just simply gone right instead of left, I would be a veterinarian today, or I would be an architect today.

Speaker 2 Or was there, was there a fork that that's a good question. Thank you.
I mean, you know, it's crazy that my fallback was music. Like if this acting thing doesn't work out,

Speaker 2 I'll be a jazz musician. That'll get me there.
It's like,

Speaker 2 so, I mean, that's where I was trending. That's what I wanted to do.

Speaker 2 And quite honestly, it's, there's still no greater pleasure that I have, you know, in any sort of performance capacity than being with musicians and creating music. Really, really?

Speaker 2 That's to me the highest

Speaker 2 it is. It really is.
I think because of, as you were talking about, improvisation, that

Speaker 2 you're creating things spontaneously.

Speaker 2 I don't know what it's doing biochemically to you, but I'm sure if you have electrodes on and, you know, they were testing you, you're getting dopamine hits that are just through the roof because it's just so alive.

Speaker 3 Yeah. And it necessitates this connection with these fellow, pardon the term, artists that you're kind of communicating without speaking and there's a handoff and a yes and thing.

Speaker 3 You get that also in acting, but it's not.

Speaker 2 Yeah, you do.

Speaker 2 And there's also that thing you do when you perform live, when you also get that, when you get that feedback from an audience when you're on stage, and you get that thing, and it starts to inform you a little bit.

Speaker 2 They become part of your creative process because you get juice from that, I think.

Speaker 2 Absolutely. You do.

Speaker 2 And it transcends language, and it transcends, you know.

Speaker 2 English, Spanish. We can all speak this language.
Yeah,

Speaker 2 there's a big unifying thing that it it does that's just like beyond.

Speaker 1 I had the same thing, Don. You know, I was always had music to fall back on should the, you know, the acting thing, and I still have the music to fall back on if the acting thing doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 But I always thought my fallback was going to be, oh, I'll just be a pop star.

Speaker 2 Well, you can spin your ass off. So

Speaker 2 dad a shot.

Speaker 1 Well, no, but let's play.

Speaker 2 Can we just play it? Can just play a little bit of it right now. We do this every once in a while, Don.
Sean? Yeah, no.

Speaker 3 Now, Don, do you.

Speaker 2 Bennett's going to find it for us. He's going to play before Don leaves.
Bennett or Robert are going to find it. Chuck that needle, Bennett.

Speaker 3 Hey, Don, do you have a place where you go, like Woody Allen famously took his clarinet out

Speaker 3 once a week or whatever, and that's not a

Speaker 3 euphemism.

Speaker 2 Oh, nice. Not a euphemism.
Right into it, Will.

Speaker 2 You're my new favorite guy on the podcast.

Speaker 3 Do you have a place where you go whip out your sacks and go play it?

Speaker 2 Fuck it. Hang on, man.

Speaker 2 I just said Will got that one. You don't have to jump on that.
I'm trying to piggyback on that. Hey, you hear what I did? Jump on top of Will's thing? I'm tripping up on it.
Your turn, Sean.

Speaker 2 Get in there.

Speaker 2 I'll take it off.

Speaker 3 But like, do you have,

Speaker 2 I'll take it off. There it is.

Speaker 3 Do you have a band that you play with or a jazz club that you go to every once in a while?

Speaker 2 No, and I've been like bouncing around on different.

Speaker 2 So I played the Sacks and then I didn't do that.

Speaker 2 You know, when I went to Cal Arts, it was kind of like a conservatory, the amount of time that you had to spend on all that there was no time really to do anything but theater and voice and movement and dance and all that stuff um so i just kind of dropped it and then i was in new york doing a play and i walked by a pawn shop and i saw this beautiful tenor sax and i was like i'm gonna pick it back up again i'm gonna see if i have any facility because you know you lose your embouchure you use lose that musculature to be able to play it it's hard to get it back so i started playing it again it sounded terrible I was like, no, just hang out.

Speaker 2 Just like stay with it. So I started doing that.
And then I

Speaker 2 took a gig, actually,

Speaker 2 the Rat Pack movie and playing Sammy Davis Jr., who

Speaker 2 played drums and played trumpet and, you know, gun twirled and could play piano.

Speaker 2 And so I kind of went back to school again. having private, you know, having lessons from all of these teachers to learn how to do all these different things.

Speaker 2 And that's when I started trying to pick up the trumpet, which became something that was going to, I didn't know I was going to need later when I did the Miles Davis thing.

Speaker 2 So I've been playing bass more than anything lately and piano more than anything lately. I haven't gone back to the Sacks.

Speaker 2 I did bring, I bought a really beautiful brand new Sacks and let this dude play and he just recorded an album with it. And it's like, so

Speaker 2 it's always in the periphery somewhere, but I haven't, you know, I think the most amazing experience I had in musical experience in the last couple years was Rob Glasper was at his,

Speaker 2 he was recording something. He said, hey, come by, come, come listen.

Speaker 2 And I said, yeah, keep a track open because I'm going to bring the bass and I'm just going to like, you know, kill you guys with some shit. So just keep the track open.
I was completely joking.

Speaker 2 And so I came over and I listened to him for a while and he goes, okay, here, here's the bass. Let's go.
I said, no, no, no, I was, I was joking. I don't, I don't want to play.

Speaker 2 He's like, oh, no, you're going to play. And it became sort of like,

Speaker 2 you know, trial by fire. And I don't play like that but when you play with great musicians you know that they lift you up yeah and they it's just like acting

Speaker 2 i wish i could find that yeah i just lift me up it's unbelievable i'm just dragging

Speaker 1 these guys john you you you seem to be like like so great at surrounding your life with the things that mean

Speaker 1 you know have great value to you music acting family you always seem to be like great mood too like golf is golf yeah um how How do you do that?

Speaker 1 How do you, for people who don't know how to do that, where they're like, I'm in this rut? Like, to us, we've all found the thing that we love to do or things we love to do.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 1 How did you learn how to gravitate towards the good versus the bad? You know, the things that are good for you, the things that fill your soul rather than...

Speaker 3 This is a question. This is an interviewer, Will.
This is somebody who knows how to shape a question.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Sorry. Go ahead, Don.
I love the comments. I'm just here for the pot shots from the sideline, man.
You know that.

Speaker 2 Will's killing, and you're killing the pot shots from the sideline, by the way. I appreciate it, man.
Don't encourage him. I honestly have to attribute it a lot of it.

Speaker 2 I have to attribute a lot of it to

Speaker 2 my upbringing. I was very fortunate to have, and people get to it however they get to it.
You know, I was very fortunate to have really solid parents, you know.

Speaker 2 really sort of, you know, corny, traditional picket fence, three, you know, the 3.5 kids and a dog and the whole thing.

Speaker 2 I really was able to grow up like that with parents that never dissuaded me from going after what I wanted to go after. That's great.

Speaker 2 I think it was, you know, really fortunate that my mom was sort of a frustrated, you know, performer, a frustrated singer. So when I wanted to be an actor, she was like, yes,

Speaker 2 go after that.

Speaker 3 Do you have an older sibling that knocked the crap out of you when you got too, too, too big?

Speaker 2 Yeah, well,

Speaker 2 she's a girl. So I like took advantage of the different muscles.
You know, I was stronger than her.

Speaker 2 And then we moved into weapons, and that's when it's like, oh, she's leveled the playing field, so we got to chill out. And that's when we stopped fighting.

Speaker 2 But

Speaker 2 just really close-knit family. And it's something I think I just wanted to replicate in my life.

Speaker 2 And I'm really lucky that, you know, I have friends from when I was in elementary school still and from college. And the people that I'm close to are still are still in my life.

Speaker 2 And I think we all know people who have gotten to a certain place and have looked around and they don't know anybody that's no one that around them has been around them for five years.

Speaker 2 And you go, that person's probably going to have some problems. So you need people who will laugh at you and say, you're not important.
Chill out.

Speaker 2 I don't keep those people around because people can't breathe the air up here the way I can. Yeah,

Speaker 2 you're one of those people we were talking about, Will.

Speaker 2 The air is so thin up here.

Speaker 2 It's so rarefied that I can barely,

Speaker 2 I'm handing out masks to these two because I'm like, guys, we're going on a ride. We're going somewhere

Speaker 2 or we're going down. No, it's so important.
I love that. It is a measure of somebody, by the way, how many old friends they have from back in the day.
And I think I'm with you on that.

Speaker 2 I think it's really great. I've got a lot of my old buddies, too.

Speaker 3 Now, Don, I got a question here.

Speaker 3 You've been a part of so many incredible projects.

Speaker 3 I want to know if

Speaker 3 I want to know if any of them felt or smelt like turds right in the middle of it and you were shocked at the end of it that it turned out so well,

Speaker 3 projects like Crash,

Speaker 3 Oceans 11, 12, or 13, traffic out of sight, boogie nights. I mean, yeah, any of the Marvel stuff, did any of them just like go, oh, Jesus, what did I do here?

Speaker 2 I think I've had the opposite where I'm like, this thing's going to crush. And then it comes out and I'm like,

Speaker 2 yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not so much.

Speaker 3 Not so much.

Speaker 2 right?

Speaker 2 I mean, we don't know, right? You just go in with, you know, your best, you know, you've made the best decision you could, and you go in and throw everything into it.

Speaker 2 And then sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. But I've never, you know, I've always had,

Speaker 2 I've always believed that the thing I've said yes to has value and it's going to be good and the experiences. And then it turns into being what it's going to be.

Speaker 2 I've been really fortunate to have really, really great experiences. I've had very few

Speaker 2 experiences where it's it's a toxic set and people are horrible you know I've just been very very I've been the things I've gravitated toward have gotten made and I've just been very very fortunate I've had a very blessed career you've clearly got a got a nice connection going with Steven Soderbergh yeah yeah I heard the set of Chernobyl was toxic nice well hey hey

Speaker 3 but you you and you and you and Soderberg have a great a great rhythm going yeah you see you see working with him again in the future probably, yes, of course, right?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I mean, we have stuff, we're trying to develop things as we speak,

Speaker 2 I love Out of Sight is such a great fucking movie, man.

Speaker 2 Isn't it good? So underrated and overlooked. Such a good movie.
Yeah. God damn it.
Despite Clooney's looks, it's

Speaker 2 hard to get around.

Speaker 3 But Soderbergh's just, he's Soderbergh's such a beast. What a good guy, too.
But I mean, like, writing and directing and camera operating and editing. And I just, I would imagine that's got to be

Speaker 3 an easy voice to follow, considering he's,

Speaker 2 are you trying to dovetail into you?

Speaker 2 No, no. No, no.
That's what I'd like to do.

Speaker 2 But can I take a minute to honestly ask you to? Here, you know,

Speaker 2 spike it. He served it up.

Speaker 2 Spike it. Guys, take us, take a shot.
I did want to spike it.

Speaker 2 I'm a big Jason Bateman fan. I'm just going to say I'm a big Jason Bateman fan and I'm really,

Speaker 2 I love everything that I'm seeing you do.

Speaker 2 And I saw you in a roundtable talking about, you know, understanding as an actor what you were going to be doing as an editor and knowing when you get into the editing room, what you're going to be able to use and not use and how you kind of craft your performance based on that.

Speaker 2 And I was like, well,

Speaker 2 fucking smart and such a cheat. Yeah,

Speaker 2 it's really fun because he lives his personal life like an editor, too. So he's always thinking about the roads.
He's trying to cut you off.

Speaker 2 Fuck off.

Speaker 3 Yeah, trimming you.

Speaker 3 Well, now, well, what Don's doing here is he's dovetailing into his accomplishments as a director as well.

Speaker 2 He has

Speaker 3 gone, he has gone ahead and he's taken all the incredible set experience he's had and lent that to the directing experience, right? And made everybody's life a lot easier, I would imagine.

Speaker 3 You'll never do it again?

Speaker 2 Do you come on? Never do it again. Why not? Bullshit.

Speaker 2 I don't anticipate ever doing it again.

Speaker 2 Well, come on.

Speaker 3 You've done it a handful of times at least.

Speaker 2 And you're enough.

Speaker 3 It's really.

Speaker 2 is it the workload or the pressure or the time commitment or what it's it's the pressure

Speaker 2 honestly it's the pressure it's i think you know um my agent one time said you know good actors are just like can be and sometimes need to just be hard sons of they just have to be able to not necessarily in how they deal with people but you have to have a the ability to have stuff kind of roll off and be thick skinned and not have it be, you know, penetrate and keep moving.

Speaker 2 And I think I have more, I'm more like sort of bandied about by the things that happen and the things I wasn't able to get.

Speaker 2 And I just, and it's something that I'm learned about myself going through that experience. I'm like, oh, well, I'm a lot more porous in that regard than I thought I was.

Speaker 3 As an actor, you can ignore a lot of drama or problems or complications with the production. And you just kind of sit in your trailer.
And then someone else will figure it out.

Speaker 3 As a director, you can't hide from anything.

Speaker 2 None of it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1 And back to the show.

Speaker 2 John, you bring a really good point, though. It is true.
You know, actors, as we know, historically, you take a lot of heat and people go, oh, fucking actors.

Speaker 2 Or you hear people write like, even people you grew up with, like, what's your life like now? You're an actor. You see that people have this sort of thing.

Speaker 2 And I always say, and they're like, oh, yeah, but you're just an actor. And I'm thinking like, yeah, I am friends with, I am an actor.
I'm friends with tons of actors.

Speaker 2 They're some of the most creative, amazing people. And

Speaker 2 on top of that, to what you were saying, they're also, it is a tough road, as you know, from when you're younger to start to do the things that you want to do.

Speaker 2 And you have to, you do put up with a ton of disappointment. You get kicked in the nards on a daily basis.

Speaker 2 You know, my own experience, I lived in New York for 10 years and was trying to get fucking work and just got kicked in the nards.

Speaker 2 And then as I'd go down to wincing in pain from getting kicked in the nuts, I'd get kicked in the face. You know, like Jason, it's like you were saying, like, the show's not, here's the benefit.

Speaker 2 You're fired, and then the next day the show is fucking gone. And you're like, fuck, I didn't need those two kicks.
Yeah, yeah, right. And by the way, and it's not once a year.

Speaker 2 It's like two, three times a week for years.

Speaker 3 That's if things are going well for you, because

Speaker 3 those two or three rejections each week mean you got two or three auditions that week, which is really good.

Speaker 2 Yeah. And I'm not saying to feel sorry for it, but it is, right, Donna? It's a tough,

Speaker 2 you do have to have a little bit of, you know, you show your mettle a little bit.

Speaker 2 Well, for, for, for me, I really could, I'd sound like an idiot, Aaron, you know, complaining about anything about my acting career because, again, I was super, super fortunate.

Speaker 2 I've never done anything but this to support myself. Um, I, you know, got my first job when I was still in college in my, you know, my junior year.
I got a gig.

Speaker 2 Oh, I did get fired from a job. That was actually the first job.

Speaker 2 I got an AT ⁇ T commercial where a kid was supposed to be on the phone and sort of trying to dodge the questions that his mom was asking because he was not doing so well.

Speaker 2 She goes, how are your grades? And he's like, my grades? I can't hear you. This connection is bad.
She's like, no, I can hear you great. And it was AT ⁇ T.
You know, you fake the phone.

Speaker 2 You know, it's like one of those things. So I was running on my, I was going out of the door to do this audition and the phone rang in the hallway.
And I just kind of knew it was for me.

Speaker 2 And I picked it up.

Speaker 2 It was my agent she goes ah Don bad news they're not they're not gonna use you in the spot I was like what why she goes they don't want to portray a black kid as failing out of college I was like so they're gonna give a white kid my job

Speaker 2 wow yeah the irony of that

Speaker 2 that's what's gonna happen so that I actually did get fired from a job I got that was the first one but yeah but for me the acting thing has been I've been like I said I've been very blessed very fortunate.

Speaker 2 But the directing part of it, yeah, it's,

Speaker 2 it's really just, it's, it's been these particular experiences I've had. Not when I've directed my show.

Speaker 2 That's a little bit more of a comfort zone, a little bit more support I've had, and a little bit more resources and people to rely on. But, you know, I made, we made Miles ahead for $8.5 million.

Speaker 2 in a town that had, you know, only done one other movie before that, where we would show up and there was like no redundancy in the departments you know we'd have two cameras and only one cameraman i'd be like where's phil it's like oh he took a commercial in dayton you know yeah yeah

Speaker 2 you know coming in one day and i was like where's the we had her in the scene she's like yeah she didn't want to come today i'm like but we shot she's in the scene like yeah she doesn't want to come so i'm like put this woman in the dress turn her back to the camera like every day it was something like always solving problems just but the problems that didn't make sense like the fire alarm going off and then the fire then the actual fireman coming and coming in while we're shooting the scene.

Speaker 2 And so, okay, I'll guess we'll shoot this MOS and just mime all these things and we'll do it in post. I get, you know, just every day it was something like that.

Speaker 2 My wife came out to see me and she said, You can't do this anymore. You know, I lost weight.
It was just, you know, it's bad. So I have a lot of scar tissue.

Speaker 2 So maybe if I get, you know, some sort of procedure where I can scrape that off, I'll try it again. For the emotional scars.

Speaker 1 I have a question just about your acting style and approach, because when I first saw Ocean's 11,

Speaker 1 which you were brilliant in, I'm not making this up. Like halfway through the movie, because of your accent, I was like, oh, wait,

Speaker 1 is that Don Cheadle? Like, you didn't do anything to your appearance. You just changed your kind of

Speaker 2 way.

Speaker 1 I don't know how to describe it. And it's amazing what an act, just an accent can do.
How did you find the trust to do that? Why that character like that?

Speaker 1 And how do you do that like in any uh character you approach it it was written like that and i was going to change it um

Speaker 2 and my manager at that point said there aren't black british people i was like oh i mean yeah she's like so why don't you just do it as how it's written and i was like yeah oh so it's written try it And so while I'm in my trailer with, you know, a vocal coach, a speech coach going over like diphthongs and schwas and stuff, they're out playing basketball.

Speaker 2 I'm like sitting in my trailer watching them play poker and have fun. And I'm like, you know, no, this works.
No, uh, no, I, no, uh.

Speaker 2 Sean, stand up. Sean, stand up real quick.
He's Sean's wearing a diphthong. Let's stand up real quick.

Speaker 2 Oh, that's nice. That's a nice diphthong.

Speaker 2 But I was famously murdered. You know, people hate.

Speaker 2 People are split right in the middle on that. The people that hate that hate it.
When I was in London, I almost had to get security because people wanted to kill kill me

Speaker 2 on how bad they thought that accent was. Oh, the accent.

Speaker 2 Why? They hated it and me. People literally drove.
They would see me and come across four lanes of traffic to pull up next to me to scream at me about how bad the accent was. I was like, I hate that.

Speaker 2 Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 I totally bought it.

Speaker 2 I physically bought it.

Speaker 3 Is it safe to say you'll never do another British accent again?

Speaker 2 Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Speaker 3 Yeah, doing an accent, I believe, that would be

Speaker 3 very, very tough for me because you're acting twice, right? You got to do performance and you got to do the action.

Speaker 2 And some somehow. So would you make them pay twice, Jay? I know Jay very well.
Would you make them pay twice?

Speaker 3 I would like to.

Speaker 2 I would like to. Are you going to say, Don?

Speaker 2 No, I'm just going to say, and some of them, you know, fit better than others that I've attempted to take on, you know. But they're all, like you said, it's all tricky.

Speaker 2 Like you're kind of acting through a mask and you're trying to make that mask be as

Speaker 2 real and as facile as you can. It's tricky.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 Now, all of these incredibly high-profile films, which one do you think gave you

Speaker 3 the most

Speaker 3 useful bounce?

Speaker 3 Was it Devil in the Blue Dress?

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 I would guess. Devil in the Blue Dress was probably.
I was on Picket Fences for a couple of years before that. Oh, wow.
You know, I was 12th on the call sheet, and you guys know what that is.

Speaker 2 I'm sitting in the trailer all day, and they're like, we're coming up to you next. We're coming to you next.
And they're like, oh, no, we're not going to to use you today.

Speaker 2 And you'd been in the trailer for 12 hours. So, I started writing.
That's when I started writing, and just as survival, right? Um, just to not go crazy.

Speaker 3 But then, along comes this film with Denzel Washington. And it was uh, did you leave that project with uh with any um pearls of wisdom from Mr.
Washington?

Speaker 2 I mean, it was an incredible experience. It was directed by Carl Franklin, who uh, I did his um AFI thesis project, you know, his ASI, his graduation project.
So I had known him from before.

Speaker 2 So that was really old home and felt great. And Denzel and I from the audition on, which is online, actually.
Our audition is online. Oh, no.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 And so is that pilot that I mentioned, by the way.

Speaker 2 Find shit and upload everything.

Speaker 2 We just had a great time. And of course, I was just in awe of him

Speaker 2 and, you know, worked as hard hard as i've ever worked on anything to make sure i was in the pocket you know when i was with him i didn't come out i was super methody i was not great character i was mouse all the time you know i just stayed in it and yeah i yeah i had a great experience i love that movie and i love that experience would you if you had if you had say you had a scene with a because you know you're Denzel now to uh to to to to a young actor if you were to do a film with it what what what would you say to to a young actor today that you wish you'd known back when you were just starting out you know any sound like right exactly don't you upstage me or shadow me

Speaker 3 but we do we do have a tendency to overcomplicate things right and and things get more simplistic as we get older um you know i wondered aside from just that generality what is there anything specific i'm trying to think myself what i would tell somebody you know probably probably step away from my BMW.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Which of your BMWs, Mr. Gallagher? That's a great

Speaker 2 I just think that, you know, like we, I think people

Speaker 2 underestimate, you know, to what Will was saying earlier is it what we really do. I think people think it's super, super easy and then they try it and they're like, oh, you're actually

Speaker 2 trying

Speaker 2 to be very naturalistic inside a completely unnatural environment where somebody's standing in your eye line chewing gum and

Speaker 2 somebody's making noise off and somebody's walkie-talkie's going off and you've got to act like this is the first time you've ever done or said any of these things. And

Speaker 2 I think that you only do that well if you're really prepared and you've really. done your homework and you're not here just because you think it's going to be cool to cut line at a restaurant.

Speaker 2 You know, it's like,

Speaker 2 this is, this is a real, real this is really i'm not we're not rocket scientists and we're not you know jumping out of airplanes or whatever the hardest shit there is to do or ditch digging but there is a crap play them yes but we play the shit out of them and we learn about them that's another thing good actors are students so we're always in the lab right we're always trying to if i play a doctor i'm gonna read up on doctors i'm gonna follow doctors i'm gonna go to hospitals i'm gonna try to sit next to them if i'm playing a cop i'm gonna do a ride along i'm gonna so i feel like that part of it often gets overlooked, that we're always in school.

Speaker 2 You know, we're always trying to learn new things. So

Speaker 2 I think that's a great boon for us as artists, that we're always

Speaker 2 expanding ourselves.

Speaker 3 Yeah. Now, Sean doesn't want you to get away without, you know, searching your memory for a really tough theater story, you know, like forgetting your lines or trying to get

Speaker 2 a sandbag fell from a mountain.

Speaker 2 And I laid it in the first row in the woman's lap and she said you think you're drunk wait till O'Toole comes out or something like that, right, Sean? Is that what you were doing?

Speaker 2 Oh, you were at that performance. Tommy, of course.
You were there. That's exactly right.
But I said, wait till my tool comes out.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Double guns. Double guns.

Speaker 2 Donchalant. Donchalant.
Donchalant strikes again.

Speaker 2 Is that you, Sean?

Speaker 1 Oh, this is me singing, yeah.

Speaker 2 It's horrible. Here we go.

Speaker 2 It's so bad.

Speaker 2 Okay.

Speaker 2 Fast enough.

Speaker 2 Is that tabla? Is that some tabla?

Speaker 2 Okay, that's good. You know what it is? It's like Jimmy Somerville from Bronsky Beat was put in the back of a van and driven to Beirut and forced to make a fucking Middle Eastern dance record.

Speaker 2 Jimmy Somerville in Beirut. That was the name of the album.

Speaker 2 Oh, Sean.

Speaker 1 Yeah, did you ever see, by the way, did you ever see Ricky Gervais' music videos or anything?

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah, those are tough. Really? Yes.
Yeah. That's what that's similar path.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 But yeah, do you have any like tragic, horrible theater gone wrong?

Speaker 2 My tragic, the most tragic thing other than a real injury that I suffered during a play. Same play, by the way.
We were doing Cymbeline at the Public.

Speaker 2 that Joanna Colitis directed, who, you know, is experimental director from Mabu Minds. If people want to go back and look at all that stuff, she's great.

Speaker 2 But we had an actor, Stefan Schnavel,

Speaker 2 who played the doctor in this play.

Speaker 2 And, you know, it's

Speaker 2 kind of a

Speaker 2 stereotypical Shakespeare fifth act wrap-up where one character knows everything that happened in the play. Like, you're his niece.
And she actually has the potion.

Speaker 2 And this king knew him as a, like, they unwrap the whole thing. We're all on stage going, Oh, that's how I thought of that.
So, he had this last, you know, speech that he had to give.

Speaker 2 Stefan was, I think, 98 at the time. Uh-oh.
Wow.

Speaker 2 So, it comes time for him to wrap this up, and he goes up.

Speaker 3 Forgets his lines.

Speaker 2 Yeah, forgets his line, goes up, forgets his lines for those who want to

Speaker 2 theater vernacular.

Speaker 2 And he starts stammering and making up words and and and basically just sort of like trouble you know standing in place and teetering and no one you can't give somebody in shakespeare you know it's not we're not doing something naturalistic you can't come up with some i you could try to come up with some iambic pentameter and like slip a line there to help him along the way but it went on so long that First the audience sort of laughed and then realized, oh, it's not a bit and stopped laughing.

Speaker 2 And then the other half of the audience laughed and then half the audience shushed that part of the audience that laughed.

Speaker 2 And then the actors on stage kind of were starting to laugh. You know, those two that would start to laugh.
And everyone's like, shut the fuck up. And everybody stops laughing.
And he's still kind of

Speaker 2 trying to pull it off.

Speaker 3 He doesn't think anyone's noticed.

Speaker 2 Trying to pull it off. This went on for probably

Speaker 2 two minutes. You know how long? two minutes is yeah oh yeah you guys i mean you guys have died for two minutes for sure collectively on this show 100%.

Speaker 3 That feels like a long time.

Speaker 2 Yeah, it's a long time. And finally, it's not.

Speaker 2 Joan Cuzak, who was the lead in it, who played Simbline, just finally just started saying his lines. She just couldn't take it anymore.

Speaker 2 And he kind of revved up and got through it and then got off stage and he said, I want to kill myself.

Speaker 2 I have to quit. I'll never want to be.
You're like, you're 98. There's no point.

Speaker 2 Sorry. Yeah, you're going to be dead soon, I guess, is what Joan said to try to

Speaker 2 bolster his ego. Good lord.
Yeah. That's the scariest thing.
Wow, fuck.

Speaker 2 It was really sad.

Speaker 2 Going up in your dialogue like that on stage. It's the scariest thing in the world.
Right? There's just nothing. You don't need that crap at 98.
There's nowhere to hide. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 There's nowhere to hide.

Speaker 2 Right.

Speaker 1 But now, Don, you're like one of the sweetest people ever. What pisses you off?

Speaker 1 Because I can't, the few times I've met you, even today, you're always just very in the middle, very cool, calm, collected.

Speaker 2 Is there some

Speaker 2 gummy program? Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 I bet he's not happy when he blades a bunker shot, right? You hit that ball right in the belly coming out of the sand trap. It's just, you never have to.

Speaker 1 That pisses you off.

Speaker 2 Yeah.

Speaker 2 Immediately, but then I kind of let it go, you know. I think like stupidity without any desire to not be stupid pisses me off.
I don't mind if you're stupid. People can be stupid.
But when they're...

Speaker 2 are like incurious and don't want to actually look under the stupidity and see where that stupidity is. Stupidity are better than themselves.

Speaker 2 That kind of pisses me. And, you know, as we can see, it's incredibly dangerous.
And, you know,

Speaker 2 we're in a sweet spot of stupidity right now for a lot of people. And

Speaker 2 would that extend across all sorts areas, that sort of stupidity? Like, whether it's history or language or just geography, even basic geography of states and cities within the country that we live.

Speaker 2 Uh-oh. And like no one usually know

Speaker 2 where a city was. Yeah, like they don't know what a city is.
It's been been explained to them like five times. This feels like a shot.
This is definitely, hey, what's the problem?

Speaker 2 No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think Will's just trying to use it in a second.
They're general. It's very general.
I'm just trying to get a general sense of what Donald.

Speaker 2 Yeah, because Sean, remember earlier in the show, I know the problem with cancer. Well, ignorance isn't stupidity.
You know, ignorance is anyone can be ignorant.

Speaker 2 That's true. Anybody can be ignorant.
Thank you, Jason. So, Don,

Speaker 2 Don, honestly, you've been a dream.

Speaker 2 You're such a cool guy. We've never hung out.
We threatened once. I was on a

Speaker 2 Joey Russo wanted me to get into

Speaker 2 Football Fantasy League, and I said no. And Joe said, well, just stay in the chat and talk shit, even though you don't want to play.
And I did for about six months.

Speaker 2 Really? Yeah, you were in there. You were in there.
It was great. Don and Pratt and Rujo.

Speaker 2 Yeah. It was fun.
It was a lot like this, just like pot shots from the side. It was a lot of pot shots.

Speaker 3 Well, you know, Will, Will, you and Don should go out and play some golf while I'm on my golf hiatus, and then I'll rejoin you guys in the end of fall.

Speaker 2 Why are you on a hiatus?

Speaker 2 He's on a hiatus because he's working.

Speaker 2 He shot an even par 70.

Speaker 2 But who cares? Really?

Speaker 3 It's not a big deal. But listen, thank you for joining us today, Don.

Speaker 2 Don, will you make me this pledge when you come back that you and I will play? Can we do that? Can we say that'll happen? 100%.

Speaker 2 Okay, great.

Speaker 3 He's the absolute.

Speaker 2 Sean, do you play?

Speaker 2 This should be the foursome i i i could i always say i could drive the cart he loves to drive the cart it's a day so much fun we get him a soda we get him like a float like a root beer float and he takes no donny next time next time you're

Speaker 2 it's soda sometimes it's a really temple but it's a lot of sugar it's a lot

Speaker 2 he's very scroggy and and by the 17th old he's kind of kind of irritable a little

Speaker 2 guys it's good just pick it up we got to go

Speaker 2 that's totally me uh love you don Don.

Speaker 3 Thank you for saying yes.

Speaker 2 Love you, pal.

Speaker 3 Enjoy the rest of your day down there in Atlanta and say hi to our friend, Mr. Hart, please.

Speaker 2 I will. Thanks, guys.
Great seeing you today.

Speaker 3 Great to see you, dude. Thank you, Don.

Speaker 2 Bye, buddy. Yep, yep.

Speaker 2 I love Don Chalant. It's so good.
JB, what a great, what a great,

Speaker 2 great guest. God, he's so lovely.

Speaker 3 Do not your shoulders just drop when you're talking to him? Yes.

Speaker 2 Yeah, he's cool. I mean, he's just such a

Speaker 2 word.

Speaker 2 Mega talent. He falls into that category.

Speaker 3 Mega talent. And universally loved.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 1 we say this all the time. It seems like the people who work all the time also have wonderful personalities.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 Well, Jamie, you know, you're a director. It's a big part of your career now and your life.
And when you're deciding between, you have a lot of options to do stuff with a lot of different people.

Speaker 2 And part of the calculus, I imagine, is who do I want to spend the next four months with? It's huge.

Speaker 3 And it's before I even start to get excited about the idea of them coming on. And that's cast or crew.

Speaker 3 I'll do Zooms with people that I may not even see on the set.

Speaker 3 And I just need to know that they're not going to

Speaker 3 wreck it with their not being nice people.

Speaker 3 But he is

Speaker 3 amazing.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 I could have just gone on forever and ever. We didn't get to much of anything, which is what we do on this show.

Speaker 2 Sorry, you know, we get a lot of complaints about that. I think that some from some people who say, like, oh, you guys didn't, you just, and what they forget is like, we're just so excited to see Don.

Speaker 2 Yeah. Right.
It's a guy like Don. So we just start talking.

Speaker 3 Yeah, we're not journalists. We're just three dummies that want to just talk a little bit and can't believe anyone's listening.
So if you're like, oh,

Speaker 2 why didn't you get to what Don's favorite dog type is? We're like, sorry. We were just excited.
We just wanted to talk shit with him.

Speaker 2 You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 That's on the Smartless Extras. If you want to know, say, we're talking Thai.

Speaker 2 Exactly.

Speaker 1 Or talk about vacation spots.

Speaker 2 Like, I don't know, like,

Speaker 2 has he ever been to Thailand or Mumbai?

Speaker 2 Mumbai.

Speaker 2 Mumbai.

Speaker 2 You blaze right over it. Mumbai.

Speaker 2 Smart.

Speaker 2 Less.

Speaker 2 Smart.

Speaker 2 Less.

Speaker 2 Smartless is 100% organic and artisanally handcrafted by Rob Armjarv, Bennett Barbicoe, and Michael Grantary.

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