"Jon Hamm"

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Speaker 1 Hey, it's John Hamm. I got here early and set my tech up very quickly.
So, of course, I'm waiting for three idiots. Welcome to Smartless.
Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart.

Speaker 1 Smart,

Speaker 1 less.

Speaker 2 Oh my God, that gives me, is that Yaz? Yeah, Yaz it is. That brings me back to,

Speaker 2 I met,

Speaker 2 I went to Chicago once to work the phones at a charity or a telethon.

Speaker 1 Jason, what have you done with my Jason?

Speaker 2 Yeah, and

Speaker 2 I met a girl there, and she was also working the phones. And we fell in love.
And

Speaker 2 I was 15, and I went back home. I talked to my mom about this love I fell in with this girl in Chicago for a whole full week.
She said, why don't you go back and see her? I'll take you.

Speaker 2 I'll go with you. I was like, great.
My mom and I got back on a plane the following weekend, went back to Chicago. And I had the most...

Speaker 1 Did you tell her you fell in love with a girl?

Speaker 2 Yeah, working the phone banks with me at this telethon. And we had a magical weekend.
And that was that. All we listened to was Yaz the whole weekend.

Speaker 1 Yeah, only you. It's one of of the best songs ever.

Speaker 1 Now, Jason, did you know that

Speaker 1 the guy who wrote all those Yaz songs wrote all those Eraser songs and wrote Depeche Mode songs? Really? Vince Clark. Not all of them, but a lot of them.
Yeah, a bunch of them.

Speaker 1 Well, Vince Clark was the writer of Yaz, and then he went to Depeche Mode and wrote, you know, Just Can't Get Enough and all those kind of songs.

Speaker 1 Then he left Depeche Mode and went to Eraser and wrote all those Yode. So now let me ask you this.
Here's a little, here's a, Sean, you might know that, you probably do.

Speaker 1 The name of the lead singer of Yaz. What was her name? Alison Moyer.

Speaker 1 Wow. Again, I said you may know this, but yeah, okay.
Well, do you guys?

Speaker 2 Yeah, go ahead. Did you guys know what the music festival was

Speaker 1 where

Speaker 1 Queen? What's this new game show we have?

Speaker 2 Queen

Speaker 2 Queen was the headliner, and Yaz led in for them. It was called Yaz Queen.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 2 it predated Lollapalooza.

Speaker 1 I can't believe I was laughing at that.

Speaker 1 That's stupid.

Speaker 1 Look at that.

Speaker 1 Yaz Queen. Even a stopped clock.

Speaker 1 I want to ask you guys what the worst trouble you got as a kid. Because here's why.
Because whenever I'm like five minutes late to rehearsal,

Speaker 1 however late I'm rehearsal here in Chicago, you know, I feel like you get in trouble like I was a kid. So I was talking to Scotty about that.

Speaker 1 And Scotty's like, I asked Scotty, what's the worst trouble you got as a kid? Scotty got his mouth washed out with soap from the nuns in Catholic school. He was about six or seven years old.

Speaker 1 And he got in trouble because he was making fart noises on his arm in the bathroom.

Speaker 1 And they literally took soap and they really, literally scrubbed his mouth. Why they should have scrubbed his armpit.
Right.

Speaker 1 But you know what he did?

Speaker 1 He breathed in to make his mouth all dry so that it wouldn't suds up.

Speaker 1 You under our guest or

Speaker 1 yeah.

Speaker 1 What do you are trying to do? Will Will, can you top Scotty's Scotty's dry wash?

Speaker 1 I mean, there have been a lot of stories of heroes over the years, and that is really, people really, when their backs against the wall, are forced to come up with,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 2 A little bit outsmarted them. Yeah.
You know, there's no fluid in my mouth, so you will not get suds, ma'am.

Speaker 1 But I always thought that was like a not a real thing that you got your mouth washed out with so, but he got his mouth.

Speaker 2 That once happened to me. Right.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 One time my mom went to hit me with a wooden spoon, true story.

Speaker 1 And I was in the kitchen, and I was being mouthy, I guess. I can't imagine how.
Probably not. And I was sweeping.

Speaker 1 I was holding a broom and I was sweeping and she went and I said something and she went to swat me with the wooden spoon and I put the broom up to block it and it broke the wooden spoon in half.

Speaker 1 My timing was perfect and it snapped it in half. And there was a moment of like, what just happened? And then we both burst into laughter.
Oh, that's nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Because you said you better step off.

Speaker 1 Well, just because I was able to block her so easily.

Speaker 1 And just the whole topic of the whole topic of abuse in families is.

Speaker 1 Well, she went to hit me on the butt with the wooden spoon.

Speaker 2 Next time, does she come at you with a metal spatula? Because that's what I would have done. I would have learned my lesson.

Speaker 1 You know, I know it, I guess these days I don't even want to get into the broader conversation.

Speaker 2 Yeah, well, no, hang on a second. Let's talk about

Speaker 2 how you discipline your children and what you advocate for.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I want to open that up. I'd like to open it up to the world.

Speaker 1 And not only that, I want to hear their opinions on it.

Speaker 1 You would never do anything. No, of course.

Speaker 1 Guys, here we go.

Speaker 1 Ready? Mind if I... I got to burp.
I'm not going to burp right now.

Speaker 2 Would this guest appreciate something like that?

Speaker 1 He wouldn't care. He wouldn't care.
You didn't even wait for our answer. You said, do you mind if I burp? And then you just were going to do it.
You didn't. I was going to say.

Speaker 1 You said, why bother saying it? It was just.

Speaker 2 Was it a false alarm? Because I didn't see you burp.

Speaker 1 Yeah. No, it came up.
It was right on the whatever this part of your throat is, but it didn't. You are, you are, I will say, after having been on the road with you for 10 days, almost two weeks.

Speaker 1 I'm a burper. You're quite a burper.

Speaker 2 Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 You are a loud burper like me you like to you like to what yeah no but you like to kind of yell your burp well jason you like to do the burp that's almost like is you pretend as if you're about to throw up completely throw up and you go

Speaker 1 but i do the same thing

Speaker 2 um i will say that uh it to both your credits um you neither one of you have uh bubble problems from the other end

Speaker 1 No, I don't have too many bubble problems. Bubble bubble problems.
Problems from the other end. Yeah.
This guy's amazing. Let's get.
I don't want to waste his time.

Speaker 1 He's received, guys, 16 Emmy nominations for one television show.

Speaker 1 Harrison.

Speaker 2 Yeah, I'm going to say,

Speaker 2 well, wait, so that's 16 years.

Speaker 1 Well, no, it could be further. It could be multiple.
Multiple

Speaker 1 writing and producing.

Speaker 1 Yeah, sure.

Speaker 1 He's one of the rares that's known for both comedy and drama, and his films are some of the best ever made. This, I didn't know about him.
He returned to his high school in St.

Speaker 1 Louis, Missouri to teach eighth grade acting, acting, and one of his students was Ellie Kemper. I didn't know that.
Really? Because I love this, and I hope we talk about it for the entire episode.

Speaker 1 He's an avid golfer. Uh-oh.
It's none other than the dashingly handsome, the talented, very relatable John Hamm.

Speaker 1 One.

Speaker 1 What? Did I get any of that right, John? Yeah, you got it all right. I did, really.

Speaker 2 Ham, you have to say,

Speaker 2 I don't think I've ever been immediately put in a good mood from any of our obvious guests.

Speaker 1 It was a pretty low low bar given the fart burp conversation that i stumbled on to but do you want to join in you just perked me up

Speaker 1 hi boys sean what's happening ham it's been a minute how you doing oh john the best or nothing Yeah, we want to get all the worst. We got three car guys on here.
Sean,

Speaker 1 get a fucking car contract for car.

Speaker 2 Or how about a motorcycle, Sean?

Speaker 2 Let me hear you sell a Yamaha right now.

Speaker 1 Okay, ready? Hey, guys. Are you in a hurry? Get a Yamaha.

Speaker 1 Wait, you're advocating. They're going to be like, no, no, no, we don't want to advocate for people to speed if you're in a hurry.

Speaker 2 Hey, guys, pissed off at those dudes cutting line by going right in between your cars. Get a Yamaha.

Speaker 1 Hey, guys, want to weave in and out of traffic?

Speaker 1 Hey, we make musical instruments and motorcycles. That's not weird.

Speaker 1 Hey, you can paint. You can paint our car.
Do you want to ride up to your baby grand in style? Hey, I wonder how many products Yamaha makes.

Speaker 1 They make musical instruments. They make pianos, obviously.

Speaker 1 They make guitars.

Speaker 1 I know they make violins because I had one in third grade. A Yamaha violin? I've never heard.
I believe I did. Whoa.
How long did you play violin? I think until about sixth grade.

Speaker 2 And then

Speaker 1 it just got too, I could never really read music.

Speaker 1 It got too complicated.

Speaker 1 I just, I could, I could, I can still kind of do it from memory, like that weird, long, long-term memory where you remember lyrics of songs, but like, you know, your mom's birthday somehow you forget.

Speaker 1 It's the weirdest thing how your brain is.

Speaker 2 What's your mom's birthday?

Speaker 1 February 1st. Oh, that's easy.

Speaker 1 That's a very easy day.

Speaker 2 Did you move on to a different instrument or did you just say screw it?

Speaker 1 No, I think that's when like sports became kind of paramount and I just did that.

Speaker 2 What did you jump into in sports?

Speaker 1 Football, baseball, swimming, soccer, basketball, what have you.

Speaker 2 Were you kind of good at all of them?

Speaker 1 I was better at football and baseball, but I was kind of good at a lot of stuff. This is the high school in which it says Burroughs baseball.
This is my baseball shirt from 10th grade.

Speaker 1 Is that your actual 10th grade t-shirt? Yeah. Yeah.
From congratulations. God, what brand is that? It's really holding up.
I think it's a champion.

Speaker 2 Will's high school t-shirts now a beautiful midriff that he wears every once in a while.

Speaker 1 It's turned into an homage to 90s Britney Spears.

Speaker 1 Jason's high school t-shirt is a Warner Brothers lot tour shirt.

Speaker 2 It's a tank.

Speaker 1 Okay.

Speaker 1 It's got a cap to match it. It's from up fronts.
They came in after Alf. Upfronts.

Speaker 1 1988 up front. Johnny.

Speaker 1 I didn't know that about high school where you graduated with an English degree and then went back to your high school to teach it because that's kind of like a fact.

Speaker 1 I'm one of the few people that loved high school and clearly you do too. I went to a really excellent high school, the aforementioned john burrows in st louis missouri and we had like crazy you know

Speaker 1 we were encouraged to try everything so it was like arts and sports and and academics and everybody was sort of encouraged to achieve and do well and and that sort of was the ethos of the whole joint so you know you didn't have to be good at it but you had to try and that was the fun of it all and exposing getting exposed to like all of these different disciplines was really was really cool and and it wasn't you know there weren't like the jocks and the nerds and the sportos or whatever the Edie McClurg thing from Ferris Bueller is of all of the gradations.

Speaker 1 They were all kind of. It was all on Edie McClurg.

Speaker 1 Come on. You got to know McClurg.
You got to have McClurg at the top of the list.

Speaker 2 I did a show with her for five years. I truly love that woman.
Yeah. Hey, so, but now, John, don't be falsely modest here, but I've got you between the jocks and the nerds.

Speaker 2 I've got you heavier over on the jock side.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the dials twisted a little to that side.

Speaker 2 She did very well in high school.

Speaker 2 Was that a fair statement?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I graduated with honors.

Speaker 1 That's not what I'm talking about. Yeah, it is.
You did okay? Did you do all right?

Speaker 1 Okay. Why do you keep winking at him? I'm not winking at him.

Speaker 2 Look, we're talking about sports.

Speaker 2 Did you score a lot?

Speaker 1 Scored a lot of points. Yeah.
Scored a lot of points. I don't know.

Speaker 2 Did you put a lot in the bucket?

Speaker 1 That was good he was. He had to play a lot of defense.

Speaker 2 Put a lot of balls in the basket.

Speaker 1 I don't know where this metaphor is going. Jason, has Amanda got you like on a no-fly list? What's going on right now? Are you not.

Speaker 1 What's going on?

Speaker 2 Well, then, how did all right so then so then you start to feather in jason fix your hair i'm sorry you start to feather in some theater right did that did that feather feather feather in some theater and then did you brain

Speaker 2 i don't have a lot of terms will's so tired of my

Speaker 1 butt it's new to john so be hush hush there was a there was some theater feathering for sure uh yeah did the jocks uh ostracize you for that that's a new one will i'm gonna i'm gonna feather that one in did they ostracize you and then did the nerds embrace and receive you like i said no not really because there there was a real blend of talk about feathering we were the both groups were feathered together quite well yeah and um the jocks were all over we did the the senior production senior year production was godspell so

Speaker 1 uh

Speaker 1 and and as in most high school productions they were you know 35 roles and they split up roles and you would you would do half a song and

Speaker 1 um with the exception of me who played judas and the uh the kid who played jesus So

Speaker 1 yeah, you know, it was fun and exciting. And it was, you know, it was something to do.
And it just, it was encouraged. So we all did it.
It was fun.

Speaker 2 If I looked at your high school picture, did you have luxurious hair?

Speaker 1 I had a good flow in 89. Sure.
Real good flow. Real salad, huh? Bateman-esque, I would say.
Jason, this is, I think Ham's giving you a run for your money. He's got a great flow.

Speaker 2 He can have it. John wins every category with any man on the planet.
Look at him.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 you're foolish.

Speaker 2 You just chase the silver with him.

Speaker 1 Listen, it's just nice to be nominated in any category. Wait, Johnny, when you went back to teach at your high school, was there anybody still there that you knew? Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah, tons, tons of teachers that I knew and loved.

Speaker 1 So it was kind of a challenge. Now teaching beside them? Yeah.
Yeah. They were now colleagues, which is really cool.
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 And in fact, the guy who was pretty much responsible for me becoming a professional actor, giving me the encouragement and hiring me and got me my equity card eventually. Wow.

Speaker 1 I kind of taught under him as his, that was my pitch was like, look,

Speaker 1 you're so such a good teacher that you made this department like a fun thing to do. So you have way too many students.
So you need a, you need a helper.

Speaker 1 And basically, I'll be the like junior theater teacher if you'll have me. And they did.

Speaker 2 And when was that?

Speaker 1 I graduated college in 93. So this would have been 94, 94, 95.
And then I moved to LA in 95. Wow.
I did too.

Speaker 1 Okay. Wow.
Jeez.

Speaker 2 What a coincidence.

Speaker 1 Lower your eyebrows, Sean. Fuck.

Speaker 2 A lot of people hit the airport in 95 out here.

Speaker 2 Like a million a day.

Speaker 1 I remember we auditioned up against each other all the time, Sean. So it was

Speaker 1 another one down here. And then I went on the 405.
I was on the 405, too.

Speaker 1 What car? What exit did you get? Because I was on the 405.

Speaker 1 Okay, wait.

Speaker 1 Okay, wait a minute. I came here so long ago.
It It was the 404. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Sashimi, okay.

Speaker 1 Wait a minute.

Speaker 1 Wait.

Speaker 1 Sorry, John. When we were on tour,

Speaker 1 Will or Jason, one of them came up with a paper. It was Will.
The best pun in the history of puns.

Speaker 2 It was the dumbest.

Speaker 1 I kept going. I was too lazy to

Speaker 1 make dinner, so I ordered some Japanese food. Sashimi.

Speaker 1 It's so stupid.

Speaker 1 And we were so punch-drunk and tired, we couldn't stop laughing. Oh, God, was that funny? I was crying real tears.

Speaker 2 And we will be right back.

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Speaker 1 And now, back to the show.

Speaker 2 John, would you ever consider doing something so generous and loving and give back-ish as going as teaching the eighth-grade classic now that

Speaker 2 you got the 16 Emmys, this incredible career?

Speaker 1 Nominations.

Speaker 1 Nominations. That's crazy.
Is that the most nominations anybody's ever received for one show? It's got to be a record. I don't think so.

Speaker 1 It's crazy. I think there's been, because they were kind of, they were for, eventually I became a producer on the show, so I got nominated for best show and things like that.

Speaker 1 But you won three as an actor? I won one. Oh.
I won one for the final season of Mad Men. But I was nominated, I think, as a guest star on SNL and on 30 Rock and a couple of things like that.

Speaker 1 So I think those have been lumped in there.

Speaker 2 What'd you do with all the speeches? What'd you do with the 15 speeches that you didn't use?

Speaker 1 I still got them. I bet you do.
I still got them right up here.

Speaker 2 No, no. Did you memorize them or did you write them down?

Speaker 1 No, did you? I didn't write anything. I never wrote anything down ever.

Speaker 2 You didn't have any sort of thoughts prepared.

Speaker 1 If I get up there, I want to make sure i don't forget to thank honestly no i really didn't did you jason did you write a few of the times that you lost oh yeah no i've got a book yeah you did write them down yeah i was an early adopter for when bateman won i i was right there on i'm probably number four on the text chain congrats buddy john is incredibly deserve it supportive love you consistent oh you know what that's a good point congrats jason what happened i know it's been a couple years no you winning the members i don't think i ever did it.

Speaker 1 Hey, better late than dead. Wait.
Tsashimi. Tashimi.
All right.

Speaker 1 You know what? Will can use the same joke again, another one from the tour, which was when I said to Jason,

Speaker 1 I got him golf balls for Christmas, like two sets of 18 golf balls each or something. And I said, Did you ever get that? And he goes, Yeah, I already had those.

Speaker 1 And Will goes, That's a twist on thank you.

Speaker 1 Wait, what did I say? I already had those.

Speaker 1 No, Sean, you said that you dropped them. Sean, you go, I gave you like a couple boxes of golf balls.

Speaker 1 You came over to my house and I gave them to you and go, and Jason, you said, oh, yeah, yeah, I did get those.

Speaker 1 I said, well, that's a fun twist on thank you.

Speaker 1 The robot.

Speaker 1 Thank you.

Speaker 1 It's pronounced thank you.

Speaker 2 I don't think that happened.

Speaker 1 I think you're bulked. Wait, back to Jason's question.
Would you ever go back and teach now, John? Would you ever do that? Is desire still there?

Speaker 1 i sure would i i i i was offered a a a chance to extend my contract by another year and i would have um loved to have done it but i was 24 turning 25 at the time and i thought well maybe i'm at least going to try to to do la see what happens and um and you know i did and i i really would though i i've I found it tremendously fulfilling.

Speaker 1 I don't know what teaching is like now with phones and internet. This was pre-internet, pre-phone.

Speaker 2 Well, that's what I was going to kind of ask, like what teaching would be like now for you, though, like you as an acting teacher then versus how you would teach acting now, not to get into acting weeds because

Speaker 2 we'll lose our one listener.

Speaker 2 But like as you're as your whole theory about acting, like how would you teach the kids now? Would it be different?

Speaker 1 It would probably be similar, if not identical. I would just have much more credibility as a 50-year-old rather than a 24-year-old guy trying to wear a tie.
Yeah. What was the gig that you had?

Speaker 1 What was the job you had right before Mad Mad Men?

Speaker 1 I was kind of unemployed for like,

Speaker 1 I got a pilot, which I got fired off of.

Speaker 1 And then I tested for seven other pilots the following

Speaker 1 pilot season and got none. I went all, you know, all the way up to the top.

Speaker 1 Seven times. Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 So Madman was my eighth.

Speaker 1 test that season and it was crazy late in the in what used to be called pilot season because it was on amc amc which didn't really know how to do pilot season so they just had a different schedule than everybody else but i had tested seven times and and

Speaker 1 biffed them all um so yeah so my last job was a pilot that was called something that then went on to be called a show called related with lizzie kaplan jennifer sposito and oh yeah someone else.

Speaker 1 And I played the love interest of, God, why am I spacing on her name? She was in Pretty Woman with Julia Roberts. Sangiacomo.
Yes, Laura Sangiacomo.

Speaker 1 So Laura Sangiacomo was the eldest of three siblings, and I was her love interest.

Speaker 1 And she killed herself on this pilot. She was wonderful in it.
And they forced her call every day. And she had a kid at home.
It was like, they treated her terribly. And then they fired her.

Speaker 1 And the powers that be said, you're out. When they told me, they're like, but we like you and you're going to stay.
I was like, there's no part for, like, that was my love interest.

Speaker 1 I don't have a person and I'm not in the family. So it doesn't make sense.
No, no, no, no, no. And they kept me, kept me, kept me.

Speaker 1 And I had to turn down another couple of jobs that now I was available for. And then they released my option on the last day and fired me.
So that was my last gig before Madman.

Speaker 1 That's so crazy. And

Speaker 1 what a change of perspective you have now on the other end of it. And we all know we've been there of just hearing you describe it brings almost like PTSD.
Oh, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 1 Yeah, like you said, we've all had a version of that of just like,

Speaker 1 oh, this is going to go. Oh, it didn't.
And then it's going to go in the far worse way than it ever possibly could have.

Speaker 2 Right. And a good example of while it probably felt like hell at the time, had that show kept going, had they not fired you,

Speaker 2 you would have been unavailable to do Mad Men. So it was a great...

Speaker 1 Everything happens.

Speaker 2 Yeah, everything happens for a reason.

Speaker 1 So you're saying look at the bright side of things, which I, you know, I'm going to say I agree with.

Speaker 2 There's plenty of fluid in that glass.

Speaker 1 Johnny, I read somewhere that you, after Mad Men, you got offered like 800 parts where it took place in the 60s or some kind of same thing over and over and over and over again.

Speaker 1 But you were smart enough to wait out, wait for that one good thing. And what was that one thing?

Speaker 1 Well,

Speaker 1 obviously, like...

Speaker 1 As soon as one thing hits, then there's five versions of that thing that come down the pike. And so for us, it was NBC came out with something like called Pan Am,

Speaker 1 something that was about like sexy stewardesses in the 60s. And then like there was some other version of like Woodstock and it was just all this stuff.
And

Speaker 1 then the like the movie Revolution Road came out. Like there were all of these kind of things that the 60s became kind of a hot commodity, or at least the late 60s.
And it was

Speaker 1 And not only that, it was just, yeah, it was like, so if there was a brooding, dark character that smoked and drank a lot, then I got that script and i was kind of like that's my day job like i don't right i and i and i love it and i i get to do it at a at a very high level and i very much appreciate it but it's my day job like yeah i would rather do something radically different was any part of you like oh god you know i know what it's like to not work so much that maybe i should for sure

Speaker 1 like like the the immediate instinct when you have that is to just grab everything with both hands and hold on for dear life um but i don't know there was something i guess i was older i was 36 at the time, 37.

Speaker 1 Like, I was kind of like, eh, all right, I got this. This seems to be going really well.
But then, like, you know, Lauren Michaels came calling and said, like, why don't you host the show?

Speaker 1 And I was literally like, this has to be a prank. I don't understand.

Speaker 1 And I, yes, yes. And in fact, I had to turn it down the first time he asked because my then-girlfriend at the time.
and I were had planned this huge trip. Like, I'd never been to Greece.

Speaker 1 We had like, had planned this whole like two-week week long getaway and it was like we couldn't we couldn't move it wow i was like well i get to say no to lauren michaels sean will never go to meek and us again tell them what happened

Speaker 1 sean what happened sean jesus yeah you know me too well i love the highlights uh john i you know it's funny madmen was and and remains such an incredibly uh like

Speaker 1 it's one of those shows that really changed i feel like in a lot of ways changed tv changed the way that people look at TV, was one of incredible, incredible writing. And you were so incredible in it.

Speaker 1 And I'll tell you,

Speaker 1 here's a testament to how great you are. You were in that part and you are, because it still lives on.

Speaker 1 When I actually started watching it in earnest, I had already known you a few years and then started watching it and was completely immersed in it and could not get enough of it and watched absolutely every episode all the way through to the end and was really profoundly moved by your performance

Speaker 1 as Don Draper. Honestly.
And

Speaker 1 really, really, really, truly.

Speaker 1 It's historical now. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 Did it change the way you acted around John

Speaker 2 when you'd hang out with him afterwards? No, no.

Speaker 1 No, but yes, of course.

Speaker 1 But I think. Way more deferential.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 Let's hear what John has to say. I don't know.
At least my friend, my friend John. My friend John is.

Speaker 1 John, do you want anything?

Speaker 1 I mean, I wasn't going out, but I will. I will totally go out.

Speaker 1 Oh, but the kids are in bed and the doors are locked, but I'll get up. No, I'll get dressed.
I'll get dressed.

Speaker 1 But so you do something like that, that changes your life in so many ways. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 And it's at first scary, probably, and weird. Like you say, Lorne Michaels is calling you.

Speaker 1 And it didn't happen at 18 years old.

Speaker 1 To this day, you know, Jason God,

Speaker 1 your life and growing up the way you grew up being famous since you were six.

Speaker 1 I remember you on Silver Spoons, I'll say it.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 And I was a fan. I was a fan early on.
I was like, this kid's good. I get it.

Speaker 1 But yeah, it changes everything, you know, and it really does provide an incredible amount of opportunity, but it comes with an incredible amount of like.

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 caveat, you know, like just be careful what you wish for in a lot of ways. So, you know, we also, we also came around,

Speaker 1 you know, the show really kind of got famous and I then got famous around 2007, which seems like not that long ago, but was a long time ago. Not only it was 15 years ago, but it was

Speaker 1 that was the year they came out with the iPhone.

Speaker 1 And I think it was maybe around the time that Twitter started.

Speaker 1 And then like 2010 was Instagram. And like all of these things were starting to kind of like people's access to the internet became in their pocket and 24-7.

Speaker 1 And so that was kind of the blogging recap culture was just starting.

Speaker 1 So this idea of kind of actively engaged fans that could in real time kind of talk about the shows really came around right when we happened to get famous.

Speaker 1 So there was a lot of like serendipity and luck involved in our show's success. And it was, you know, it was crazy and it was a whirlwind and it was impossible to kind of not

Speaker 1 enjoy because it was enjoyable. And

Speaker 1 it so rarely happens that you, and we all, we've all been a part of at least one, in some in some cases,

Speaker 1 several hits like that where you just it's out of your control and you just have to hold on for the ride. And that's kind of what I did.

Speaker 2 But getting that level of fame and respect and success in in a profession

Speaker 2 at the age you are at is fortuitous, I would think,

Speaker 2 in that you've got the coping mechanisms to deal with something like that. Were you able to

Speaker 2 take some really beneficial parts from fame and incorporate it into your life in a healthy way?

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, I think part of it is

Speaker 1 being okay with

Speaker 1 appreciating it, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 1 Yeah, there's a lot of us, I think, that want to poo-poo it and play it down and be modest with it,

Speaker 1 which is also very healthy and good. But there's something very,

Speaker 1 I think, healthy about saying, like, you know what? Yeah, good for me. Hooray.
Yay, me.

Speaker 1 I didn't for nothing like work for 10 years with very little recognition or accolades or money or jobs or anything.

Speaker 1 Like, you know, when I landed in 95, when Sean and I landed in 1995, it took me three years to even get a job. So, you know,

Speaker 1 and it wasn't for lack of trying. I auditioned for everything.
You know, my weird audition story was auditioning for Mimi Leader for Deep Impact,

Speaker 1 a part that eventually went to Jon Favreau.

Speaker 1 And, you know, who to this day I still say, I'm still a little angry at. I'm a little angry at him for beating me out for that.

Speaker 1 He had swingers. He had swingers.
He's a writer.

Speaker 1 He had so much. And he couldn't.

Speaker 2 He didn't need Deep Impact.

Speaker 1 He couldn't back off and just give me that.

Speaker 1 I needed it. No.

Speaker 2 He could pay you back now, give you some nice, sweet arc on Mandalorian.

Speaker 1 Some Mandalorian love. Yeah.

Speaker 2 Nice little tight little three up arc.

Speaker 1 Well, he's also, he's the guy in all that stuff, too, and all the Marvel stuff. Isn't he the guy? Yeah, he's Johnny Marvel.
Come on. Isn't he the guy? Isn't he in those movies, too?

Speaker 1 He's Downey's driver, right? Chauffeur.

Speaker 1 Getting his sag benefits. You know what I mean? Listen, he's driven Robert Downey in the Iron Man trilogy, quadruple.

Speaker 1 He's driven Jack Nicholson,

Speaker 1 I think. Truly? In As Good As It Gets? Really? Am I making this up? I don't know.
Was he a driver in that?

Speaker 2 Was he in As Good As It Gets? I don't know.

Speaker 1 I'll be honest. I might be conflating a lot.
Yeah, I think you made that up.

Speaker 2 John is a fun guy to act with.

Speaker 2 Have you guys done that?

Speaker 1 No, but I obviously know him. He's a fun guy in Jack Nex.

Speaker 2 He is fun in a scene.

Speaker 1 Very fast, very quick.

Speaker 2 And him and Vince together, that must have been fun to watch.

Speaker 1 Oh, man. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've met those guys. I live on the east side of L.A., and they're they're kind of credited with kind of bringing Los Felis into the hipster world for sure.
The Dresden,

Speaker 1 that whole kind of swing, you know, the swingers scene was their scene for sure.

Speaker 1 And when those guys walked into a bar in 1996, like you knew it. It was,

Speaker 1 they were, they were very good hangs and they were very funny even then. And, you know, the proofs and the pudding, they both have very nice careers.

Speaker 1 We were talking the other day about, Jason and I were talking about Vince, about how fucking quick and funny he is there's just no one better at what he is

Speaker 1 he's unreal yeah and nobody does what he does which is a nice place to be yeah

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Speaker 2 All right, back to the show.

Speaker 1 John, when you, you know, now that you worked your butt off to get to where you are, and in hindsight, it probably took longer than you wanted and longer than what you explained before.

Speaker 1 Is there anything that you would tell younger actors going through it now or any kind of

Speaker 1 businessy advice rather than acting, acting, you know, technique advice that, you know, that you would probably pass on to anybody looking to make it now?

Speaker 1 You know, I've talked to actually Jenna Fisher about this, who's also from St. Louis, who I've known for some time.
I didn't know her in St. Louis, but

Speaker 1 we were talking about something for some reason.

Speaker 1 And it's funny, like you can go to all of the acting schools in the world and nobody really teaches you about the business of acting. Right.

Speaker 1 And what it really is like, of course, like managing your day and managing your time and

Speaker 2 your expectations.

Speaker 1 Your expectations for sure, like thinking about, you know, here's what it is to like drive into the valley in August and then have another audition in

Speaker 1 Fox in an hour, you know, and it's, you know, it's, it's a lot and it's and it's real.

Speaker 1 And it's actually the part of acting that most actors engage with from a professional standpoint far more than they do, you know, scene study or whatever. And

Speaker 1 so there's that part and there's also just the fact that everything

Speaker 1 at this level moves so quickly, especially in television, that if you're not ready to go, if you haven't done the work before you get to work, then you're, it's not going to go well

Speaker 1 for one reason or another. And I've seen it happen.
I've been a victim of it of just like, oh, I'll just wing it. And then you're like, uh-oh.
Right.

Speaker 1 But it's.

Speaker 1 It's a real lesson to learn of just, you know, it's the first one I learned in class. It's just like, be prepared.

Speaker 1 I had an acting teacher too years ago.

Speaker 1 He kind of would

Speaker 1 profess this, and he was kind of a working actor. He was a character actory guy.
He'd lived in L.A. for a long time.
He had moved back to New York. It's like early 90s.
Charles Nelson Riley?

Speaker 1 Early 90s.

Speaker 1 Charles Bronson. It was Charles Bronson.

Speaker 1 Bruce for laugh. And

Speaker 1 we'd only do scenes from Fort Apache, the Bronx.

Speaker 1 But he would. Wait, what?

Speaker 1 Great movie.

Speaker 2 He wasn't in that.

Speaker 1 Charles Bronson was. Sure, he was.

Speaker 1 We had a lot to pick for him, but I'm glad you picked that one. Yeah, me too.

Speaker 1 He would say the same thing, which was like, as a young actor,

Speaker 1 if you get to set and you start going, like, I'm going to work through my stuff, you're fired.

Speaker 1 There's no time to work through your shit. They got to get this shot and they got to move on.

Speaker 1 And they don't give a fuck about what your process is and how you get there. You deliver.
When they fucking call action, be ready. And I think that that was like the, I had that at an early age.

Speaker 1 And I was, I felt lucky because I feel a lot of actors feel like, I'm just going to go and I'm going to get out. I'm just going to feel it.

Speaker 1 Once they see how amazing I am, they'll give me all the time in the world. Right.

Speaker 1 But it depends on what you want, right? If you want to be like, take Tom Cruise, for example, people are like, they didn't just hand it to him. Like,

Speaker 1 he worked his butt off to be Tom Cruise. You know what I mean? And having worked with him, he is the first guy on set.

Speaker 1 He's in the gym at five in the morning, call times at six. He's there.
He's ready to go. And he's the last guy that leaves.
And

Speaker 1 that guy deserves it. He wants it.
He got it. He works hard at it.
And that's, you know, Jason, I know you've directed.

Speaker 1 Have you guys both directed television, Sean and Will?

Speaker 1 It's the same thing when you sit through those auditions and you think like, all right, the guy that comes, who's going to come in and take this part? Who's going to come in?

Speaker 2 So I can worry about something else.

Speaker 1 So I can worry about something else. And by the way, so I can go back to the set.
I got to shoot. Yeah.
And

Speaker 1 you watch the guys that do it, that walk in and just say, like, I don't have any questions or, or I don't have any ridiculous questions. Not hey, this is not 10 minutes of bullshit.
No.

Speaker 1 It's like, let's do this and I'm going to prove to you how

Speaker 1 I can crush this. And then it's like, great.
That's the guy I want on the day when I'm 10 hours behind. Sean, you do, but

Speaker 1 you haven't directed, but you also, you go to the, when it goes to the, going to the gym, you're the last guy there, the first guy out, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Very similar. Yeah, I mean, look at me.

Speaker 2 So, John, growing up in St. Louis,

Speaker 2 did you spend any summers at the Lake of the Ozarks down there?

Speaker 1 Yeah. In fact,

Speaker 1 a good portion of my family has retired down there.

Speaker 1 My dad's sister, my Betty,

Speaker 1 lives down there full-time now.

Speaker 2 Is it true that

Speaker 2 there's a bar down there that does real well called Big Dick's Halfway In?

Speaker 1 No way. Is that a true story? It's entirely possible.

Speaker 1 If I'm judging by the amount

Speaker 1 and the quality of puns that I've seen and heard throughout the years

Speaker 1 in the Lake of the Ozarks, the Rednecks. Is that true, Jason? Is that a real bar?

Speaker 2 That's a real bar, from what I understand, and it is a very high-level pun.

Speaker 2 They deserve to do a lot of business in that.

Speaker 1 Jason,

Speaker 1 can we get a little something out of Marty Bird?

Speaker 1 I don't change at all.

Speaker 2 This is a full Marty right now.

Speaker 1 We hear a little something out of Marty. A little interview has been conducted by Marty Bird, I think.
I would love to have a

Speaker 1 I think it might go a little something like this.

Speaker 2 Now, did you ever see any

Speaker 2 money laundering or

Speaker 2 killings or anything down there?

Speaker 1 Very little, if any.

Speaker 2 We're painting a pretty bleak picture of the lake down there.

Speaker 1 There was a lot of bass fishing, a lot of water skiing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 And some pretty heavy drinking. Yeah.
But, you know,

Speaker 1 a lot of very poor water safety. Yeah.

Speaker 2 But you're not getting a murder a week down there.

Speaker 1 No.

Speaker 2 Yeah. We're taking a little license.

Speaker 1 You know, fall out of the boat, hit your head. Son of a bitch.
Yeah. I had my phone in my pocket.
God damn it. A lot of that.
That's for sure.

Speaker 2 A lot of anger.

Speaker 1 But not a lot of cartel guys walking down dirt roads with shotguns in the middle of the night, right? Just didn't see it. And that doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Speaker 2 Now, are they upset at us for painting that type of a picture?

Speaker 1 I think any publicity for the Ozarks is good publicity.

Speaker 2 You know, they do need to lengthen the runway there so they can get some commercial flights in there and really open up tourism, darn it.

Speaker 1 You're preaching to the choir at this point.

Speaker 2 Won't you get down there and kind of ramrod something like that?

Speaker 1 Is that one of the other bars? The Ramrod something like that? The Ramrod does great business, but it's mostly on weekends.

Speaker 1 And it's gay.

Speaker 1 Mostly on weekends. Thank you.

Speaker 1 Johnny, what's your favorite best movie experience on a set or part that you played? And explaining I will tell you that

Speaker 1 I've got it right here. You're loaded with that one.

Speaker 1 I worked on a movie called Bad Times at the El Royale a couple years ago. Yes.

Speaker 1 Directed by a guy who I have known for a long time. He used to write promos for the WB.
I auditioned to be the guy that reads the promo next on the WB.

Speaker 1 That guy that Will probably got. Yeah.
No, I did CBS at that time. Fair enough.
Fair enough.

Speaker 1 And so

Speaker 1 I got the offer for it

Speaker 1 during Sundance. Yeah.
It came through. They said, you got 48 hours to read this.
It's yours if you want it. You got to be on a plane from Sundance to Vancouver.
Let me know.

Speaker 1 And I read it and I loved it. And I was like, cool, cool, cool.
This is amazing.

Speaker 1 Who fell out, basically, because clearly somebody did. No, John.
No, somebody did. It was fine.
It was Russell Crowe. Whatever.
Good. Good replacement, I think.
Sure.

Speaker 1 And it was to work with Jeff Bridges, who I've wanted to work with my entire life and I've always thought was maybe the coolest,

Speaker 1 coolest guy. You know, even pre-Big Lebowski, I was just, I was on board.
I just thought.

Speaker 2 That's no letdown, right? He's a real, that's a high-level professional.

Speaker 1 And so I got to work with that guy for, I shot the whole thing chronologically.

Speaker 1 Spoiler alert, I die in the first act, but I shot all, you know, whatever two and a half weeks of my part, and it was mostly with Jeff. And

Speaker 1 man, that was a, that was a, and it was a beautiful set. It was super cool.
Everybody on it was nice.

Speaker 1 Um, it was,

Speaker 1 that was, that was one of the good ones. That was really one of the good ones.
John, how weird. So you actually, you, you did this movie with the guy who was writing promos at the CW.

Speaker 1 What a trip for you guys, right? Did you guys acknowledge him? And I knew him through like a little poker league that we played in.

Speaker 1 Like he, he was just, he, he hit the big time, Drew Goddard, and he's still making a lot of money. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, wait, I know Drew because I, he, he's Caroline Williams.

Speaker 1 He's married to Caroline Williams, who's a tremendous comedy comedy writer. She's one of the funniest writers I've ever worked with.

Speaker 1 She wrote on Bojan. Bad things happen to good people sometimes.

Speaker 2 Now, you mentioned auditioning to be the voice of CW. So

Speaker 2 the voice has been something that you've been using for a while, then it sounds like. But

Speaker 2 you've really hit the top of the mountain there with Mercedes for how many years now?

Speaker 1 I think going on 13 now. John Hammond.
That's so cool. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I've outlasted several CEOs and CMOs.

Speaker 1 13 13 years, that's pretty good.

Speaker 1 Here he comes. Here he comes.
Here he comes.

Speaker 2 It's not professional grade, though. I mean, 13 years is good, but it's not professional grade.

Speaker 1 It's not professional grade. It's not professional grade.
It doesn't matter. Oh, no.
I think people want to know.

Speaker 1 I will say, for the listeners out there, every now and again, I will get texts from both Jason and Will. about some voiceover something or other, which is,

Speaker 1 it's a compliment, but it's a left-handed compliment. No.
No.

Speaker 1 It's always a, oh, you see you doing that too. Good for you.
Good for you. Good for you.
Real happy for you.

Speaker 2 And let me tell you what else is a good. That Apple commercial that you do is killer.

Speaker 1 That's well done.

Speaker 1 That's beautiful. And it's beautiful.

Speaker 2 Who shot that, by the way? I want DP and director.

Speaker 1 Another guy I've known for a long, long time through our mutual friend Tall John Schrader, a guy named Wayne McClamy, who now is another guy that came out of

Speaker 1 the trenches of the WB. No, I'm kidding.

Speaker 2 Do you know who shot it? Do you know who the DP was?

Speaker 1 I don't remember the name of the DP. I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 Okay, wait, Johnny, before we let you go, because I know you got to go, I want to know what you're excited about coming up. That's

Speaker 1 really getting you going. I'll tell you exactly what I'm excited about because I've said it about four times today.

Speaker 1 I get to go

Speaker 1 to

Speaker 1 Europe for my birthday.

Speaker 1 I turned 50 last year and it was during a pandemic and my big celebration was having some people over and standing 10 feet away from them.

Speaker 1 And I get to go, my gal and I get to go to the

Speaker 1 Alps for two weeks for my birthday. I've never been, I've never been to Switzerland.
Oh, that's exciting. I've never been to that part of France and I've never been to that part of Italy.
So

Speaker 1 we're going to do it right. And you're going to like that a lot.
I'm leaving in a week and I'm very, very excited about that. That's so exciting.

Speaker 2 George can toss you the keys for the house in CC, baby.

Speaker 1 You got Como handy? Let me

Speaker 1 rock her out.

Speaker 1 I promise I'll mop up. Why not? And listen, you can pop down to Zermatt.
And, you know, where are you going to Switzerland? Switzerland, Stad. Stad.
Yes.

Speaker 1 I just want to be like, I want to do like one thing James Bond did. Right.
Like, I want to eat dinner in a like UFO shaped thing that you have to take a gondola to

Speaker 1 and then you ski out and

Speaker 1 dessert.

Speaker 2 Hey,

Speaker 2 are you going to get you going to get into Germany at all? You should get to Germany and have Mercedes give you one of their cars and drive on the Audubon where there's no speed limit.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's correct. I think that's a different trip, but yes, yes, that's gonna happen at some point.

Speaker 2 I'll go on that one with you. Okay, let's go.
Yeah, come on.

Speaker 1 God, that sounds like let's take uh, let's take this podcast on the road and uh do it German style.

Speaker 1 But one more thing, and I know that I know the personal life is way more important than anything we do for a living, but I'm just excited about you and your talent.

Speaker 1 And is there anything that you're excited that's coming up that you can share with us that you're working on or going to work on?

Speaker 1 Uh, the most exciting thing that I have coming out, which will finally come out in May, is the long-awaited 30 years on sequel to Top Gun. Oh, nice.
Oh, nice. You're in that? Yes, I am.
Holy shit. And

Speaker 1 that's coming out, I think, Memorial Day weekend around there. And

Speaker 1 I've seen it. It's really, really good.

Speaker 1 It's exactly what you want out of this. And it's,

Speaker 1 I cannot wait for people to see it. It was one of those things where another kind of pinch-me-moment, like just like, wait, they're asking me to be in the Top Gun sequel?

Speaker 1 Like, tell my, tell my 15-year-old self that. And I would punch my 15-year-old self in the face.
Like,

Speaker 1 that's healthy. So, yeah.

Speaker 2 Tom Cruise was

Speaker 2 not a disappointment either, I'll bet, right?

Speaker 1 Just incredible. Incredible biz, man.
He's the best in the biz. He's as advertised.
He is intense and hardworking, but that's exactly who you want. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's what you want in a Tom Cruise. Oh, yeah.
That's great.

Speaker 1 A whole hour on that. That's awesome.
Well, I'm excited about that. Johnny, thank you for being here.
I know you got to run. It means the world to us, and thank you for saying yes to coming on.

Speaker 1 I'm such a big boy. Boys, thank you very much for having me.
It's rare that I know all three podcast hosts at the same time.

Speaker 2 Hopefully, if Major League Baseball gets her act together, we can go out there and do quality time.

Speaker 1 Jason and I have a lovely, friendly Cardinals-Dodgers rivalry that the Dodgers have had the better of the last few years.

Speaker 1 Not really. Barely.

Speaker 2 You still have Flarity, though.

Speaker 2 Listen,

Speaker 1 you got the ring.

Speaker 2 You give me him, and all is forgiven.

Speaker 1 Okay, I'll trade you for Walker Beale. Maybe with the high school last year.

Speaker 2 No, no, no. He needs to be with Walker.

Speaker 2 Anyway, we'll talk. We'll negotiate something.

Speaker 1 No, no, no. Please continue on with fucking baseball, man.
All the fucking. So let's end on baseball.

Speaker 1 We can end on the fact that I went on a blind date with Jason's now wife. We can all, but that's what we that's

Speaker 1 wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, he's got to stand in there and really say that.
I got to go. I got to go.
That's

Speaker 1 the shot.

Speaker 1 Did you really go on a blind date with Amanda? Ham, just wink at me. One wink means yes.
Two means. Okay, yes.

Speaker 1 john all right john ham thank you so much john thank you johnny oh great to have you ham you're the best you're the best go burrow

Speaker 1 the next time all right i love you guys thank you

Speaker 1 buddy thank you

Speaker 1 thank you

Speaker 2 uh john ham is no ham john is a is a very humble classy solid individual.

Speaker 1 Solid individual. Yeah.
Yeah. I was super excited that he was coming on.

Speaker 1 I mean, he's like one of those guys that's, you know, I say it all the the time, but about other people, but whenever he's in something, you're like, oh, this is going to be great. Yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 He's got a real solid presence.

Speaker 1 And I really meant it about

Speaker 1 Mad Men watching that and truthfully, like thinking, like...

Speaker 1 kind of know him and like this how's this going to be watching him in this it's kind of like what jason watching you in ozark which is also a testament to how good you are it's like you get into it and you're like you forget that you know the guy which is it's a harder it's a higher bar to have to hire hire someone.

Speaker 1 I love that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 That's so true.

Speaker 1 And that shows how good it is. Jay, whenever I, yeah, whenever I watch those, I can't, it's like, I don't, it's transformative, as they say.
So congratulations on that.

Speaker 1 Congratulations to John Hammond being. So, Sean, also, what a great guest.

Speaker 1 It's so great having John on. Yeah, he's got a new podcast.
Yeah, I was going to say that. Does he have a new podcast? Yeah, he's got a new podcast.

Speaker 1 It's called American Hostage, and it's on Amazon Wondering. It's fantastic.

Speaker 1 You got to listen to the trailer. The trailer sounds like an actual movie.
It's really, really cool.

Speaker 1 He's perfect for that. It's really great.
He's perfect for that. Because he's so good.
I meant it when I said, like, I watch Mad Men.

Speaker 2 And I mean, how many, you would never think that a series about a pot store would last for how many seasons? Oh, no, no.

Speaker 1 You're thinking of, sorry, you're thinking of Mad Men, which is a pot store out here in California. No, it's a different, it's a totally different.
Yeah. I mean, it's a very

Speaker 2 mad. So it's an anger management, like a help group.

Speaker 1 And again, it's just, honestly, I wish you could just kind of play on Madison Avenue, guys of advertising

Speaker 1 executives.

Speaker 1 I'm lost.

Speaker 1 But it's like where they, you know, those ad executives that come up with all the different slogans, like, you know, do this, do this, or like, you're thinking of like

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Speaker 1 Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. They go perfectly with music,

Speaker 1 podcasts, and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds.

Speaker 1 Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you.

Speaker 1 Hello. Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to.
I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's.

Speaker 1 Ashley, go back to the nature sounds.

Speaker 1 Nice. Yeah, that's really nice.