"Stephen Colbert"

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Subject to change. I'm so glad the other two couldn't make it today.
I'm Sean Hayes, and I am the host of SmartList. It's a show where we used to have two other hosts.

Can you believe the balls on this guy?

I'm Sean Ace. Hello?

When they fucking plug my mic in,

I'm going to light this kid up.

Oh, Sean.

I was just saying.

I was told that you guys couldn't make it.

That's weird because I was just saying

to my friend,

what a great job you're doing on the intro.

So where does that leave us now?

Just kind of like a enjoy the show yeah enjoy the show

smart

smart smart smart Sean, Jason said to me the other night, he goes,

I was FaceTiming him from his apartment, and he goes,

have you got it? crackers? And I go into his cupboard, and I open up, and I had taken a photo of his fridge and how bare it was, and I sent it to him and Kimmel in Thoreau. And then I said, yeah, let's take a look at these crackers.
They are the most unappetizing looking crackers you've ever seen. Why? Because they're not edged in cheese or they're not stuffed.
They're not edged in anything. It's cardboard with seeds.
And then he says, I just come back from work and he goes, you eat after work? And I go, yeah, it's called dinner. You know,

a lot of people do it. They've been doing it for a minute.
And I was having salad with grilled

chicken. He's like, what are you doing? Because that just doesn't compute for him because he just.

Jason, when's the last time you had like a burger or pizza or anything just horrible?

I had a burger about three weeks ago and it was incredible. You guys should check into it.

It's three weeks ago. Yeah.
It a ground beef and that they remembers the date oh sorry remembers the whole thing go ahead it was on the calendar it was on his calendar uh the bun was soft but with a crispy little edge to it um i went ahead and had a little ketchup uh lettuce tomato cheese oh good for you jason's death row meal they'd'd be like, well, what do you want? Most people, you know, I want a thing and a chicken and, you know, pasta with a huge thing and a sundae. And Jason's like, if I could have half a slice of a whole wheat pita, that'd be nice.
And a half hour on the treadmill. Is it available? Yeah, before he passes, before they wire him up to the chair.
Listen, I've told you a million times there's a 600-pound man in here waiting to get out. I have to stay on the mouse wheel.
Otherwise, it's not going to end well. He's got me on this lemon water now, too, which has nothing in it but lemon.
And water. Guys, speaking of 600 pounds, we have a guy today who has 600 pounds of talent.
Oh, 600 pounds of talent. Here we go.
What a description. Isn't that a good segue? It's the name of his autobiography.
Huge fan of this guy. I love that you have no idea who it is.
I'm super excited that he's on the show. He's so nice to be here.
I've been a fan of his and watching him for many, many, many years. I've never done a deep dive on this fella.
In doing so for today, I had no idea we had so much much in common this is what we have in common okay i'm from chicago he spent quite a while in chicago specifically not really in common but go ahead no specifically at second city which i also attended classes he's irish catholic youngest child of a massive litter i'm also the youngest of a large irish catholic family he has a big love of lord of the rings franchise and i think you guys know how i feel about about all of that. Yeah, a million times.
We both grew up playing Dungeons & Dragons. We both have a connection to The Daily Show.
What's so funny? Oh, no. What's so funny? Just the Dungeons & Dragons is just so...
So you guys both just crushed a lot of ass growing up. That's covered.
Sean, how excited do you get when you hear the sound? Pew pew i just soiled myself i think i get so excited okay he's currently guys he's currently in first place in the million year late night talk show race my best friend in the whole world stephen colbert hang on what steven what oh i love the pan down too tilt down tilt down there you go there you go that's professional that you go. That's professional.
That's how you get number one. Yeah.
That kind of technical expertise. You're not going to get that from Kimmel or Fallon.
Listener, he's in a very erudite library, home den. It's kind of exactly how, by the way, another thing we have in common, Stephen.
What is that? What is that? What is that? Lord of the Rings. Book, I think? Lord of the Rings.
What's that? I love it. I can't get enough of it one volume red book of west march edition of the lord of the right wow that's the lord of the rings all of this behind me on this shelf is tolkien commentary or the unfinished tales like uh you know the fall of gondolin or the children of uran over here is more lord of the rings commentary that's smeagol that's go's Gollum Right here, what's this? It's Sting Wait, is that from the movie? Actual hero swords from the movie Peter Jackson game This is one of the fucking swords that was used in the movies Look at that thing How did you get that? I don't care if you don't like Tolkien or the movies You gotta like that You must have children all over the world How do you stop getting laid? How do you stop getting laid? How are you not getting laid right now? I fight him off with this.
Oh, that's another one. And Dural, which was given to me by Viggo Mortensen.
Another sword. Fucking Viggo himself gave this to me dressed up as Eric.
No way. And it was the greatest sex I ever had.
Wow. You and Viggo slept together? Is that? We're making news, guys.
100,000% as I as i remember did you buy those or were they given to you they were given to me this is actually one of the stings from the lord of the rings that's incredible wow and i had to actually pry these both away from my kids because when my boys were young they would fight each other with it i'm like i could pay for your college with this give me that listen uh steven it's great to have you here on the show Well,. Well, it's a pleasure.
It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Of course. I am such a big fan.
And just right off the bat, Stephen, is there some kind of like a mental adjustment you have to make in your brain to go from host to guest? Like, is your instinct to take over an interview when you're the subject? Absolutely not. I'm fascinating and I am fascinated with me.
I do almost every interview I do. I'm listening to the person going, I could answer this better.
I could answer. I've read your bio.
I did the pre. I know exactly how to fucking kill with this answer.
And you are shanking this. The urge to like, just say, go let's switch.
I'm happy to do that. Do you like that that do you like when a guest comes on and they kind of freestyles and goes and goes off script basically do you like that or do you like sticking to it as long as they've got a story that's all i care about what the only thing you don't want is for someone to come on and they say just ask them about ask them about their first day on set just asking about first day on set and then you say um so gosh big i mean you're you're a young actor you're there with all these like huge stars what was your first day on set like and they go it was great and that's it yeah uh full start and then you go like fuck me they like they don't if they say they're gonna do one thing and they don't do it that's when you just want to open a vein because you realize there's another 10 minutes with this person.
The other version is if somebody is super, um, Hey man, I just put it out there in their public life, you know, and then you have them on and say, Hey, okay, put it out there. And they go, you know, people, people have different attitudes about things.
Like they completely back away from whatever position or what their book says, or, you know, some women are nice like you know whatever they they don't because they they see the audience they see the audience and they'll say one thing on their stupid news show where there's no audience to yell at them but they see my audience and they go you know everybody's got their opinions and they're like those that's the worst people who kind of play a character they lose a little courage when they get in front of the audience right and? And then will you go after them? Will you sort of like privately resent like, Motherfucker, you're on my show. You should be entertaining.
And will you kind of leave them hanging out to dry or will you throw them a lifeline? Well, I mean, I'm not there to like stick a knife in anybody. I don't like, even on the old gig, I didn't really wasn't there to do that.
That was more of a, that was more of a legend. Got a real gotcha environment over in your show steven i've noticed it's a real gotcha well when you're there when you're there the general feeling from the staff is fuck him up fuck this guy up i get no i get it fuck will up and i like it and they're like before i go on stage you're like you know you come back with his liver on a stick you fucking don't come back at all because we are hurt by his presence in this building sure you know why sure i do know why and then and i go i promise you i'll make him suffer though i'll tell you something who actually is actually i have a pleasant hostility with is uh that's jason bateman dumb right here because i've interviewed you a couple of times and i actually enjoy there's a pleasant hostility with you as a guest.
And I mean, pleasant. What does that mean? Don't you feel like there's a hostility? Like we don't get along.
Well, you're incredibly pleasant. Like you're such an enjoyable performer.
There comes a but. But there is.
There it is. No, and.
No, you said but. Good for you.
Okay. Good for you.
All right. Yes.
But there is. and.
But there is. Okay.
But there is. In addition to your pleasantness and your wonderful, charming nature, there's something about you that's a little hostile as a guest.
Yeah, it's anger. Listen, motherfucker.
Hang on a second. I can't imagine I'm the only host who feels this way.
Or friend. I might be the only one to tell you.
I look forward to it. I love a guest who who's a little hostile let me just say this for jason really quickly because you don't know this steven but the one of the last times that jason was on your show he might have been a little hostile because he was going through something yeah yeah let me explain my hostility the last time i was on your show you know about this i don't think he does know i actually don't know i don't remember anything about the interviews just that there was a sense perhaps it's defensiveness and the hostility is as a rose's thorns still beautiful but defending oneself let me say this let me say this i jason and i were going to do this pressing and he came and we were meeting at jfk he was going to do your show and he shows up jfk late and he's a sweaty mess and he said how did how did Colbert go? And he's like, Jesus fucking Christ.
Right, Jason? Is that the setup? Yeah. Hey, you're great.
All right. So here's, first of all, Stephen, my- Do you want me to tell the story? No, I got it.
Is this a true story? This is a true story. Am I about to hear a true story? Yes.
Yeah, it's a true story. Now, I will first say, in my defense, I have a British mother who has – she was very sarcastic and dry, and so my sense of humor tends to be a little like that.
It can come across as hot. Okay? I apologize.
You also have a lot of anger just below the surface. And I've got some anger below the surface.
Okay. Okay.
So here's the story, Stephen, and I will say I will apologize to Mr. Jimmy Kimmy kimmel right now because i told him about this and he said oh you got to save that for the next time you're on um so screw you jimmy i'm going to tell it to steven because steven owns it because it was on his show so here's here's what happened i come to do your show uh i'm in the dressing room there which by the way has no bathrooms okay least the dressing room I got, the dressing room I got, I did not get the lead guest dressing room, whatever it was, there's no Johnny in there.
So here I am. They put you in the pit.
They put me in the pit. So I'm in the pit and, and my, my little suits in there, my little outfit, my little talk show suits in there.
And, uh, everyone gets out of the dressing room so I can change into my, suit and i put it on and you know my wife likes me wearing stuff that's a little tight and and i don't like it but i i guess i lost the battle on this one so i put it on it's a little bit tight and i'm thinking boy it could be less tight if i just let a little this gas out i just came from dinner and and things have built up a little bit and i feel like if I could just let this one bubble out, things would really work out for me.

Again, let me remind the audience.

True story.

True story.

All of this is completely true.

Keep going.

So, so.

How nice is this suit?

How nice is this suit?

Armani.

It's, please.

What did you say to me?

What is it, 1988?

No, and it's not Hugo Boss either. They make lovely things.
Something I can't even pronounce probably. Pierre Cardin.
Pierre Cardin. That's it.
So, so the suit's on, or at least, at least the pants are on, such that I know I need to, I need to try to make a little bit more room here. And so I, I released the valve a little bit.
Out comes less, well, it's more than air.

Less than solid.

Now, what are we to air time at this point?

What are we to air time?

We're four minutes from.

We're four minutes from.

You're well done with the monologue.

You're probably in commercial break.

And it's time to walk.

I haven't even got the makeup on yet. Because the makeup artist is waiting outside the door for me to get the monologue.
You're probably in commercial break and it's time to walk. I haven't even got the makeup on yet because a makeup artist is waiting outside the door for me to get the suit on.
So this is a problem. And there's a knock on the door.
She'd like to get the makeup started. Stage manager would like for us to be walking.
So now I've got to, I got to get the pants off, get the underwear off and get rid of the underwear in the bathroom that doesn't exist

there so now i've got to bury the underwear in the trash can i've got to i've got to top it with some some kleenex or something a crusty loaf we usually have some bread and some cheese so nobody finds no one's the wiser no one can and so any so a couple of cans of la croix yeah so suit's still tight. Now I'm commando um I'm not feeling great about myself I've forgotten all my funny answers that I've worked on with the segment producer on the pre-interview now I'm sweating I really need makeup I got David Cross in the dressing room next to me ready to pre-tape an episode and he wants to talk um and so I let him in I in, I let, I tell him what, what's happened.
He thinks it's fantastic. He thinks I should lead with that.
Um, I elect not to, uh, I get the makeup on the powder, whatever. I make it out there and, uh, and I sit down and we do our interview.
Um, and that is probably the reason I was less than chatty. He shat his pants steven you know i mean you know okay now you know what you want to know why i'm mad if i hadn't appeared on this podcast today you would have told that story on good for you when it's my trash can good for you and my show where that happened and you were going to tell that story on that's true totally entitled it.
Totally entitled to be angry. You should be double the angry you are now.
You owe me underwear. Absolutely owe me underwear because— What size? Are you men's medium? M? Will? You're an M.
Will? He's a boy small. He's a boy small now with his diet.
He's a boy small. All right.
What kind do you like? I like a boxer brief. Got it.
Okay? Okay. Doesn't crawl up your— Doesn't crawl up your leg? With preferably sort of a rubber saddle to it.
Hang on. There's a great question.
He just asked you, does it crawl up your leg? Does it crawl up your leg? Because it crawls up my leg. No, it doesn't.
Because the fluid in the seat of it keeps it weighted down. It's a mild adhesive.

It's like a post-it note against your ass.

You can imagine we're like, he's, how'd it go

on Colbert? Not great, man.

Not great. I took a shit in my

pants and I had to fucking bury my underwear

and I'm fucking, and now we gotta get in an all-night

flight and he's like, for fuck's sake, I'm

fucking, he was like very rattled. You know what though?

We can go down this rabbit hole, no pun intended, because I had a similar thing in in grade school i was in eighth grade i raised my hand i had already crapped myself in my jeans i was 12 years old i raised my hand i said can i go to the bathroom and she said yes i left i walk into the bathroom i go into the stall i take my underwear off i throw it into the stall underneath next to me sure and then i hear all like the entire football team come into the bathroom and they go whoa dude what the oh god and they open this thing the stall next to me like holy shit that oh my god there's shitty underwear oh my god and i was I thought I was going to get literally the shit beat out of me again by these people.

Oh, bless.

Don't we all have those stories?

Will, you're up.

Will, you probably never have, right?

Batter up.

No, I'm good.

Batter up, Will.

I don't think I do.

Come on.

You have a history with alcohol.

You must have wrecked plenty of shorts.

My life wasn't fucking train spotting, okay?

I wasn't, you know, shitting beds.

But I will say that I did do a similar thing to you, Jason.

I was spending the night with a lovely young lady at her apartment years ago, 25 plus years ago in New York City.

Just a tremendous date and getting to know you.

And woke up in the morning, had a little coffee at her apartment. And then it got away from me.
And I actually ended up opening the small window in her bathroom and throwing my underwear into the courtyard. So I threw it out of the building.
Steven, we're going to complete the circle and we're gonna go ahead and complete

the circle yeah start the interview sure i mean i have one i have one story like that it involves conan uh o'brien i have one i have one story like that we were um people always say like hey do you good late night guys all know each other i actually am friends with conan it's kind of a late onset friendship in our careers. But we were out, where were we? We were out in Deer Valley in Utah.
And I was skiing out there with my family. And Conan called me up and he said, could I ski with you guys? And I was like, ah, you know.
And he said, have no i have no friends and i frightened my family and could i that sounds like conan and i said i said okay i'll i'll yeah all right and so we met at the top of uh silver strike you guys know the lips we met at the top of silver strike and uh it's just it's just me and him because my kids saw him and said, I don't want to ski with him. And they were fans of Leno.
And they said, we don't want to ski with Tony. And I made them take a side because I thought like if you want to be in show business, the most important thing in show business is to be in a camp.
That's right. That's the most.
Like talent, okay. Or like dedication.
But the most important thing is to pick a camp in Hollywood and never forgive anyone for anything they do. Right, right.
And they said, Dad, we can't because we're Leno. And I said, I understand.
We're Leno. And I'm proud of you.
I said, I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you.
You're crying're crying right now it should be pointed out you're crying telling this story about how proud you are and so they went off to do whoever with their mom and uh they went to go do that uh get a big cookie size of their head and so i get on the i got on the lift with conan and and he is you know He loves the sound of his own voice. And so we're right on the lift with Conan and he is – he loves the sound of his own voice.

And so we're running on the lift and I'm like, shh, we got the masks on.

There's a chance for nobody to know who we are.

You know what I mean?

Because we got the helmet.

We got the goggles on.

We got the mask.

We can actually go out there and enjoy ourselves.

He's like, I'm Conan O'Brien when we're in the lines.

And his helmet is the color of his hair. his helmet actually is the color of his hair okay on the back on the back of his andy richter's face is stitched into the back of his jacket and i'm like this is embarrassing so we get on we're on the we're on the we're on the we're on the we're on the we're on the it's on the lift we're not because it's not enclosed which is a big part of the story And we're on the – we're on the – we're on the – it's on the lift because it's not enclosed, which is a big part of the story.
And we're on the lift going up. And he's talking – he's kind of obsessed with Lou Diamond Phillips at this time.
Sure, yeah. And he's – all he wants to talk about is an officer and a movie.
You know that thing on History Channel that Lou Diamond Phillips used to – Lou Diamondips used to watch like kelly's heroes or something and then he would interview someone saying how was that tank battle was that accurate and and he's like why the fuck does lou diamond phillips like what did i know he was in that movie with like meg ryan about like something about denzel washington but why does he get to be the guy who interviewed officers? And he's like, he will not let it go. He's got, he's got, sorry.
No, but you know, because he's interviewing these people as if he's had military service. When he, he always like, he does like a heel turn and solutions like that.
So Conan won't shut about Lou Diamond pillows the entire time. And we're going over, and I know how you're going up and you'll be going others you're going over ski runs yeah yeah and this is out west where like it might take you 20 minutes to get to the top of the mountain so you're looking at other people and you're judging the way they ski and everything and conan he uh he sees like a little one of these little like a conga line kind of like toddler ski class going going by and he goes i bet I could take a dump on those kids.
And I said, I said, don't even joke about that. That's my children and their mother.
Nice. That's not right.
That no, they weren't my kids, but there was like, you know, it was like, whatever, like the reindeer club or whatever it is, you know, and they all, they got the clips on the front of their skis. So they have to be in this.
Pizza, French fry. Pizza, French fry.
Pizza, the entire time. Exactly.
Which is how Conan skis, by the way, it's all pizza. It's all pizza, French fry, which isn't easy in his height.
And so we're going over one of these runs. I don't know.
It's like, uh, homeward bound or whatever. One of those things like that, you know, all the names out there.
And, uh, and Conan's like, I bet I, I bet I could do that. And I said, please don't try.
And he said, too late. Sounds like you're daring me.
And I'm like, you're in a full, you're in a full length. You're in like a neck to ankle, like one piece jumpsuit.
How are you going to do this? And he goes, zip. He's got a flap in the back and he just scoots it out.
He scoots it out over the back.

And I swear, hand to God, he yells, Tora, Tora, Tora.

That's his shit war cry?

He yells, Tora, Tora, Tora.

And just like, have you ever seen like those movies where like a, like some sort of rescue squad has to put down a marker in the snow. So a helicopter can find you.
Like it's like, or it's like the flame retardant coming out of the planes. It's the same.
It's the same color as his hair. No way.
100%. A bright orange waist comes out of cone.

100%.

It's like he lives just on Dorito dust.

And it just absolutely, he drops it like when he drops it,

like one of those planes that's firefighting.

Sure.

And just, and literally knocks these kids down.

Lesson over.

Absolutely knocks them down. Oh, my God.
And with just a high-pitched cackle. And I'm like, are you okay? That is not.
And again, the color, again, was like, remember when Cone, before he wore the wigs? Yes. Now it's all, when he still had hair? Right, yeah.
Sure. Before, and he's all proud.
And I gotta say i'm i'm impressed of course i gotta say a man a man his age that control this is again this is 100 true 100 it happened true yeah he might remember this story differently than i do um and we've never talked about it we've never talked about it since from that moment we never talked about it we made a promise he looked at me and his pride it went from like pride to deep shame he goes i want you to swear that not only did you not see that like you'll never say anything but you'll never say we went skiing together and i said i won't ever say anything about us skiing together if you never say anything about it. Even that day? That second, from that second, didn't happen.
Fuck around. We so appreciate the trust.
And one of the reasons was is because we get to the top, and obviously, who's up there? Cops. Like, they're like, because that is.
I thought you were going to say Lou Diamond Phillips. Jesus Christ, what a ride.
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You can buy a jar of Jif to save the celery. So let's begin the interview.
Sure. And I just want to say, I do want to add one more thing if I can before we start the interview.
And none of this is recorded, right? No, no, no, this is all rehearsal. Yeah, this is all pre-show.
The one thing I want to say is that, again, as we remember things differently and he'll remember it differently than i do if he ever talks about it again is that the one thing i know happened is the lou diamond full of shit talk that's the one thing i'm not sure about the rest of it steven welcome to the show um steven good to. Yeah, thank you.
And I love your short stories. They're going to cut together great.
So listen, I have been such a fan for so long. We don't have to go through your whole, I mean, people might find it interesting.
I know they would. I know I would, but I don't want to bore you with you.
So I want to know the trajectory of the late show with Stephen Colbert, because I feel like when the show now feels like it's different than when it began a little bit. It's different than it was a year ago.
Yeah. Did you, at the beginning, did you feel like you had to conform into Letterman's kind of format or any pressure like that? And then realized, wait a minute, I need to do my own thing here.
Like what steered it in the direction it is today? Just trying a whole bunch of different stuff. Like when I, when I started, I had never been myself before.
I was like, I'm not a host. I like hosting parties, but I'm not a host.
I don't, I didn't know what that was. I'd always, even, even the Colbert Report, that was, that was a 10 year sketch right like i did a 10 year scene i was doing a character really like that guy and i are not the same guy right and i worked really hard to never leave character like i worked really hard like before i went on stage every night i'd slap myself in the face hard like really just to wake myself up and i'd look in the mirror and go hey don't drop it now like now.
Like you've been carrying this plate of glasses for like six years. Don't drop it now.
What was the purpose of carrying it for six years? So I tried to stay really, you know, it's a character you wear as lightly as a hat, as the saying goes lightly as a cap, but I still try to keep it on. Then I go over and I go, okay, so me, what do I want to do? I don't know.
So I just kept doing different things for, uh, I'd say six months. And then one of the things I was doing at the same time was actually show running the show.
I was, I didn't have a show runner. It was me.
Oh yeah. It was, I had the old show and I thought I could do both.
And I kind of lost my mind. I'm like, I can't, I can't, I'm not thinking at all about what i want to do comedically i'm thinking about running the show i gotta say steven it really struck me i noticed one of the last times i went there we did it we did a bit and i came a little bit early we rehearsed it and then uh and then i got a knock on the door and one of your writers somebody on the show said hey we're downstairs steven's rewriting the bit right now if you want to come down because he's kind of changing it and i was so shocked by how close it was to showtime and you were downstairs and you were you were driving you were at the computer and you were the one who was doing it and taking ideas from everybody and you were the one who's actually physically changing the bit yourself and i thought wow that is so what a high wire act you're about to go out and do the show oh i still do that that never changed that's incredible i i'm talking about the show business side of it like i literally had somebody can't i take all the show business side of it so all i could think about was the comedy and then that that changed the way i did my entire day which let me just think about okay i'm just a comedian or a performer here and that's when i found out what i liked and what i didn't like

about what i was doing but that level of control was like it was you i still i mean i can't imagine

not like working on it till the last minute right i don't i can't imagine i can't imagine that

because every day is this metaphor john stewart and i used to use uh back when i used to work with

that guy is um it's like a distillery Like the morning you get the pitches. That's like the corn.
And then you mash it with the first draft. And then you take that mash and you check the alcohol level and you go, OK, let's rewrite it.
That's actually to put it in the little thing and to get to get the pure alcohol out of it. And then the last rewrite that thing in the room right before you go on that's where you try to make it the way i would say it then you try to get it in your own mouth feel and that mouth feels like that's when that's oak aging or something you know that's putting in the barrel so it turns into whiskey and you can't always do that but it's always the goal i'd hate to not try and it's not like you look at it go like oh shit that's brandy every night sometimes it's just moonshine but you want to try to make it brandy if you can't do you ever show up and it's in great shape right off the bat yeah yeah i mean i've got well listen i don't know because there's a process that happens before i ever see it there's the pitch in the morning which i always hear yeah and i weigh in on which of those i like you know we might get eight pitches and we'll write on guys will write on five or four of them.
And so, sorry, what does that mean? You get eight pitches, eight pitches of jokes or eight pitches of ideas to do areas. I had the stories like, cause this is for monologue or for after monologue.
This is for a monologue. I mean, there are other, there are other refillables that get written more like buckets, you know, like they're not as timely, but the monologue, that first 15 minutes of the show, that is for lack of a better word.
Like that's the national conversation. What are people talking about today? And we don't, we don't dictate that.
We literally have a guy we stole from Anderson Cooper's wonderful researcher named Brandon. And I go, Brandon, what's the conversation? Where are the news trucks in the world right right now right what's what because i'm going to talk about that thing that the audience has heard all day anyway and have their own anxiety about it what's the deadline on that we record the show at 5 30 cut off is about five right we have a late breaker team we have a team that starts writing around three o'clock ish and the late breakers before we put their script to bed around five or five fifteen we go late breakers got any um mini chunks we call it anybody anything getting chunky upstairs we got any mini chunks and then we go we got maxi chunks because there was just a press conference or a new vaccine just came through or what whatever it is what's going to lead all the cable news tonight is what we're thinking.
What's the lead? Because that may not be what we lead our monologue with. We might lead with something silly that just sort of like puts a little gas in the engine for the audience.
But we're going to talk about whatever it is. We try not to ignore whatever the thing, even if it's tragic, sadly.
Because we don't make jokes about it, but we don't want to say like, hey, we didn't have the same experience you had as an audience tonight. That process took about six months to create the way we do it.
And we've been doing that for about five years now. Sean mentioned at the top when he was introducing you that you were at Second City in Chicago.
I know that you were a, uh, um, you were part of that whole gang. Who were you, who, by the way, who are your kind of your contemporaries when you were in Chicago? Cause everybody has kind of different classes that they were with.
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, there's, there's two different things. There's, there's the people you watched.
Yeah. Right.
You wanted to be your contemporaries. And then there's the people you performed with yeah but in your mind those people you watched are also sure like the people you were watching like the people i watched the people who i first saw improvise actually not at second city but at this little club in chicago called cross cross currents it was called cross currents and was under the belmont l and just really really divey little place dave pasquese do you know guys? Pasquese was the first guy I ever saw.
I went, oh, I want to do that. Whatever he's got, I want that.
That little secret he has when he walks on stage. I don't know what it is, but I always want to know what it is.
I'm like, how can you – today, I still – I kind of still want to be Dave Pasquese, especially his ability to improvise. But who else was there? Mike Myers was on stage and Tim Meadows was on stage.
No, Correll was essentially my same generation. He was about a year ahead of me.
Second City works like a rep. You come in and you learn the last 40 years years of material and you do that on the road he was in that process like six months to a year ahead of me in that process and what about like amy amy sedaris hired on the same day because there's a big casting call every year like the 300 people come in and they pick like five four six my year the people who were hired that august were which was 1988 i guess was me rose abdu is hilarious uh amy sedaris paul daniello and chris farley wow wow wow and greg hallman uh but chris farley so first six months i toured with farley god he i toured around the country he could do no no to me.
Funniest guy. You know, people don't talk about Farley enough.
People don't. I agree.
He deserves a deeper memory in comedy. He's written off as just kind of like this big, dumb, sort of goofy who did big physical stuff, but there was such a purpose there.
It was so sharp, right? He is. You're right.
That's how he's written off. Not a dumb guy.
It's so specific and so, and it was so spot on and it was so, so specific, right? So spot on. Just, he and Sedaris had this thing.
Like, I remember that I saw them before I worked with them. I saw them on stage because they were actually, we were hired, but they were actually placed in the company first.
And so I was literally still like waiting tables there. And I saw, I saw them on stage and i went who are those people first thing the time thing i ever saw amy say is she walked on stage door bursts open there's this tiny little bundle of energy she goes oh my god you've got a wet bar and just starts laughing like that and runs over and goes oh now i want to see the cocktail she's going to make now i want to i want to work with her.
And then me and Paul and Amy ended up essentially working together almost every day for like 17 years. Yeah, and you created Strangers with Candy.
We were in a common-law marriage for the next 17 years. It's great.
And Strangers with Candy is one of my favorites. Yeah.
It's fantastic. I heard that once you described Amy as like an idiot savant without the savant.
Is that true? As a joke as a joke to her to her oh no she knows yeah yeah she knows no that i yes i think that i think that might be uh her own accurate that might be her own interpretation of herself she would sit in the corner as we would like write changes with candy and of course everything is written for her and around her it's all built around like what can we build around her yeah and paul and it'd be like three o'clock in the morning and he'd be slapping on the keys going okay where do we go with this and we'd be just sitting there in like the horror of the clock whizzing on the wall like the hands going around like we have to shoot this tomorrow and then amy would go like but what if it was a squirrel and we'd go what she's like what did i say like you, you said something about a squirrel. And it would be exactly the right thing in that moment.
And she wouldn't necessarily know that she had absorbed every problem we were trying to surmount. And she would just blurt out exactly the right answer exactly when we needed it.
So the wheels are always turning inside that little coconut-sized skull of hers. And she's one of those people who makes me laugh more than any.
I just, I can't, she's like a drug to me. Yeah, I love it too.
But speaking of that, Stephen, like just thinking really fast, you have such a fast brain. I love that you're like, you know, wishing you were, had as great of improv skills as some of the people you grew up with, but you do.

I mean, your brain works so fast.

Is it frustrating?

To be with people like you who aren't as fast as I am?

Who's really slow.

Is this agony to actually be doing anything with you

to deign, to condescend,

to appear on your podcast?

Are you ripping paper?

No, I'm enjoying myself.

No, but is it frustrating being around people who don't think as fast as you or work as fast as you or work as hard as you or anything like that? No, I actually don't think of myself as that great of an improviser. I mean, I know a lot of people who are better than I am because I don't think it's necessarily about being fast.
I think it's being like honestly reactive because, you know, not to get too spiritual here, but the first guy I took any classes with was Del Close. And while there are, you know, there are people have their own opinions or pros and cons about, you know, Del Close, I don't have much of an experience with him, but he, one of the things he said was that don't think that it's you.
Don't think it's you that have to do this. You actually have to be reactive and just the universe is going to do it.

If you actually do it right, it's just happening.

You won't know who did it if you do it right.

And I think that's sort of in some ways the opposite of quickness.

That's vulnerability.

That's vulnerability.

And there are people who are great vulnerable performers who I'm incredibly jealous of because I still have a need to please.

And that can get in the way of me actually being a good improviser because you want to score. Don't you consider what you do on your show, your conversations with people as improv? I mean, I do.
Sure. Being able to just be on your feet and be listening and then.
Yeah, it's not. I mean, to me, the old show was more like improv because there was a character choice.
And then you were making performance choices in the moment. That was really improvisation.
This one, I really, especially now in COVID, I just tried to actually have a conversation with someone. It must be kind of harder now just being yourself in a certain way than spending all those years where you were playing a character.
and character and getting, it's because you have to be much more honest again, without being too sort of, you know, corny, but you're being much more, just being yourself and being vulnerable in that way is probably more difficult. Yes or no? It was for me.
Yeah. It is for me.
I mean, now I wouldn't want to do that old guy. I mean, I didn't want to do that old guy anymore.
Anyway, that's why I left. It's not like I got fired.
I still like doing him, but I wanted to leave while I still liked it. And I never intended to be doing what I'm doing right now.
Matter of fact, I already made the decision to leave that show before I was offered this one. That was, this was 100% a happy accident.
I had a whole other plan. I had a whole other thing I was going to do.
What was that plan? What were you going to do? I still want to do it, so I don't want to steal it. But honest to God, that's how showbiz I am.
It's registered trademark. I was going to put that character into a narrative.
I was going to put that character into an honest to God, like, half-hour comedy. You should.
You still can do that. I wanted to follow what he was going to do next.
Yeah, but nobody can steal that idea because you play the guy. A half-hour comedy starring sort of like the character from Colbert.
And like single camera or multi-camera. I can tell you what it was going to be.
I can tell you what was going to go with it. Is that in 2012, what gave me the idea was that I had all this money because I started a super PAC.
I started, I raised $1.3 million, which scared the, but Jesus out of me, by the way, we started as a game. Like I, I, on the old show, I like to always just do everything real, you know? And as my publicist once said to me, Carrie, Carrie Bylock, my dear friend, she once said to me, Hey, I need to ask about this running for president thing.
Everybody's calling and i just want to get you know everything nailed down here so i understand is this is this a joke or are you running for real and i said well if it wasn't real it wouldn't be a joke she goes got it got it got it and that was the way we did i wanted to do everything for real i really had a super bag i really wanted to raise money because i really wanted to see i wanted to be the joke the character was the joke what made it easier for me is that anytime you would approach a subject there is a base code of joke because the character's a joke right i could approach any subject and there would always be some level of comedy of course because the character would be the joke and now there always has to be a joke and that's what's harder now. I don't have to turn that extra knob to do the character.
And there are times when I really, I really do enjoy being myself. And I actually enjoy interviewing people more as myself.
But I think it requires more of my writers in a way because they actually, our joke per minute ratio has to be much better because it's setups and punch up some punchlines right smartless is sponsored by liquid iv so one of my things that i'm trying this year really trying hard is to wake up earlier i wake up like my alarm will go off like a lot of people i know and you'll hit it and you'll listen i really try to force myself to get out of bed and hop in the shower the minute i wake up in the morning. So whatever you guys decide to do to try this year,

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Hilton, for the stay. do you give yourself the credit that you deserve for being such a great actor by playing that character as well as you did with no winking, no nut, to the point where...
By the way, Jason, sorry. For Tracy in Wisconsin, we're talking about the Colbert Report.
Right. Just so people know.
We've never said what, we just keep saying the character.

Where you played a fervent right wing, what would you call it?

Pundit.

Guy, yeah.

Pundit.

That took acting skills. I question, hold on one second, I'm going to interrupt you because I'm the host.

Sean, I question whether Tracy in Wisconsin,isconsin hearing colbert rapport if that helps her any more than knowing that i'm stephen colbert and saying character because if they don't know stephen colbert used to do a character i don't think colbert rapport is gonna tip them off okay just calm down about all of that and let's just keep going wow i'm trying to give you the hostility that i got it it's coming through it's's coming through. And that's the cycle of abuse.
That's the cycle of abuse. Still trying to finish my goddamn question.
Oh, well, we'd love you to fucking start it. Hey, Steven.
Hi. So given all of that great raw acting talent, do you have any desire to play characters? Like have like a career uh in and around your show uh in and around my show now the show takes all of my time you know like i like i'd much rather produce other people's shows i like i'd much rather take this and help people the way i was helped that's what i'd like to do like while i'm doing my show i think to really do a good job i'd have to like stop doing this show and i the show.
I don't want to be, I don't think I could do like a side hustle as an actor. But could you, could you see yourself doing, like you were just mentioning, you know, the show that you wanted to do based on your character from Colbert Rapport.
Could you imagine taking that character and producing it and potentially writing it at whatever and running it and having another actor, say like a Lou Diamond Phillips playing playing you is that something that you would consider and again knowing now wait a second i was going to say no okay i was going to say no and then i said until you said lou diamond phillips just to get under conan there could be a natural sort of war angle to it as well just knowing that conan is so mad at him because conan's like where does he get off right conan could do like a like a guest arc like a stunt arc on it it's producing itself so but could you no but all bits aside could you could you see yourself producing like that idea that you had that you wanted for you producing it for somebody else yeah i mean i got that i'd rather i'd rather i'd rather i'd rather do something else because that i specifically there was things i wanted to do with him that were ways what i liked about him was how he clanged up against the real world like going out into the real world and really upset people almost every time i did it it was so fun and and and now i i honestly i like people to like me as much as the next person sure and so now honest to god like you know i actually don't i love the audience i don't people have like a hostile relationship to their audience. Like I never feel like it's the audience's fault if the show doesn't go well.
I never blame them. It's always me.
That's my job. They're like, they're amateurs.
I'm a professional. And so I, I like people to like me.
And so this is such a different job. Whereas that old job, I, I, it was okay if they didn't like me, that was kind of the purpose of him going out into the world was to see what this kind of character would be clanging up in his most extreme state with real people who weren't in on it.
And given that, do you think in today's political climate that, that you could do that show today? And, and no, I don't think, I think it would, it would, it would poke the bear too much. Wouldn't it? I think it would be too dark.
I think our political climate has gotten, I could feel it. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to leave is I no longer wanted to, as I said before, that I no longer wanted to sip that cup of poison because you had to sip a little bit of it.
You had to titrate it a little bit to go do the character. And I just couldn't even look at those people anymore.
And now I would never, can you imagine having to leapfrog the guy who was just to be worse than him? No, I know. Because he literally quoted my old character at times.
Literally like word for word. What's the reaction you get when you go back to the South? You're from the South.
Yeah. I'm from South Carolina.
All roads lead north from South Carolina. Sure.
Nice. That's good.
What's it like um it's fine i mean i don't

know still family there yeah yeah and i married a girl from there so like there's no debate about

where we go when we have time and we like have a plate we have a house like right across the street

from her sister it's like really that's great and her and her parents live in a block a block and

half away and my sister lives about a half a mile away and so when you show up in town you don't

have to wear a heavy disguise uh for for no no no i don't think i i'm happy to say i don't think anybody cares about me yeah right we do here at smartless we do i don't get fanned at and i don't get hostile that i'm just um unless i'm sitting in the guest chair and is anybody because you got you come from a large family like me but not as nearly as large as yours. Is anybody else in the family, like, first of all, 11 kids you grew up with? There's got to be a gay one in there.
Not that we know of. All right.
Well, hang on. Not that we know of.
Hang in there. The door is open.
Sure. Door is open.
What was it like growing up in such a massive organization? Normal. You know, whatever happens to your childhood is normal right right right so it felt perfectly normal it wasn't until i had no sense of it until i was in first grade so i'm in first grade and the very first day of first grade we all the teacher i forgot mrs pool i think her name was and we all had to sit up on the back of our seat like with our butts are on the back of our seat our feet are in the seat of the seat and we're all to sit up there and she's going to hold up her hand fingers and when she gets to the number of children in your family sit down because she's trying to get to know us right and she gets to 10 and i'm still sitting up on the back of my seat and she thinks that I can't count right she's like I'm the troubled child because that's what that's why she's doing it to see if kids know how to count and um wow this is 1969 South Carolina this is just like two steps away from To Kill a Mockingbird this community I'm in and the Yules live right around the corner and and so uh that's when i found out that it was unusual that you had that many kids and are you trying to replicate that do you have a bunch of kids running around there how many do you have i'm trying to but so far just three just the three just three but i'm not giving up do they do they know what you do and my wife is listening, I'm not giving up.
We're both in our late 50s, but you know what? Have you heard of Abraham? Yeah, this is very threatening, man. Again, you might want to bring the tone down.
Go ahead, Jason. Do they know what you do? Do they appreciate you, your humor? Do they give it up? Or is it the toughest audience in the world like the rest of us? I, it's a tough audience.
It's a tough audience. I mean, I think they appreciate what dad does.
Yeah. Tough audience.
Evie's still a good audience. That's nice.
She's my audience now because I got no audience when she, when she comes in and sits in the extra little red chair or the storage closet where I'm doing the late show right now, that's it. Like that's as good.
I mean, I, I actually said this on the show the other night when I started off, I thought like, God, I wish I could make an audience laugh the way I make every laugh. I could make it, but honest to God, cause it was like, I could feel like the honesty and like the intimacy.
Cause really that intimacy, like, what do you want? You like, there's a sense of community with an audience if you get it right, you know? And now she's it, that that's it like she's the one i'm making laugh and it's kind of joyful and kind of wonderful and as sad as the last year has been that's been a marvelous thing because she was she she and my the kids were my crew down in south carolina we bugged out one year ago yesterday we left the ed sullivan theater yeah wow and we went down to south carolina to help take care of her folks who are like, you know, in their nineties and they couldn't have any, anybody come in and help them. So it was just, you know, really Evie and her sister taking care of them.
So we were down there right down the street and we couldn't let crew into the house. We had a satellite truck parked on the front lawn, killing the grass.
And they ran cables in through a spare bedroom window where we packed foam around it, try to keep the bugs out. And I put a kitchen stool next to an old desk from her family.
And there was a TV in there. I could put graphics up on it.
And the first thing is my, my middle son, my, my daughter's, you know, in her twenties and out there with a job, but she was working online in the kitchen, and my eldest son was my crew for the first couple months, and then he was finishing up college. He was like, I'm literally not going to graduate if I keep doing this, Dad.
So his younger brother, who was finishing up high school, both of them robbed of their senior years. They're worse things, but I felt bad for him.
Then he took over in tag team. And school both of them robbed of their senior years you know they're worse they're worse things but it was i felt bad for him then he took over in tag team and then both of them are like mom like well we won't i won't graduate from high school so then evie took over and then she was my crew and which was just kind of great and it was really like the old 19th century everybody's going to pitch in and help dad down at the lumber mill because we've got the pine you know the the new, the new lodgepole pines are coming in and we've got to make flooring or whatever they did in the 19th century.
So did they laugh at the jokes? No, everyone would laugh at the jokes. I don't think I, that my boys cracked a smile for five months because that's how long we did it, but they weren't really paying attention either.
But what they did, but they were, cause they were just doing the technical aspects of it, but it was like lighting, sound cameras, switching over like channels and everything, communicating with the people. And they're on the headset, talking to the virtual control.
Basically a live show. No way.
Live show. I'm a hundred percent.
Great. They're on the kids on the headset going, hold on dad, we're switching satellites or whatever.
That's what my boys are doing for me. And then my daughter's my makeup and then uh cbs catches when they go oh we could do this a lot cheaper uh-huh we actually we actually had to get a union waiver it was like an emergency of course like you literally because it was emergency code but the union said okay you can do this but it was kind of an amazing thing but they got to see what my, I loved it because I think

it's very helpful for everybody to become an adult, to see their parents as human.

Yeah, of course.

You know, I lost my dad when I was pretty young and I was robbed of that ability to

see him as not Olympian, to not see him, to see him as a human being.

And so there's something stunting about your development if you don't get to see your parents

as human.

And they 100% saw their dad as human going like literally like in the middle of a monologue just throwing my glasses across and i'm going i don't know how the fuck i'm supposed to do this with no audience and like no sense of timing like i took the goddamn job at the late show not because i had ever really like harbored this dream of being a late night talk, because it's real. This is a real late night.
Like I didn't know what this job was like until I did. No idea.
I mean, my respect for like the Jimmy's and the Conan's and your Dave's and your J's and your Johnny's and your Steve Allen's and your Jack Parr's and your Dick Cavett's went, I already liked them. I'd never had it.
Like I already liked them, but my respect went through if I went oh my god this is a really hard job and it's not anything like you are you still loving doing it oh absolutely i mean i want the audience back but it wasn't literally wasn't on the bucket list to do this gig and when i was offered i went god it's the only fucking promotion i could think of is to take that job and no one's ever going to offer to me again i I'll give it a shot. I love a live audience.
Thinking of it that morning and doing it that night and finding out because the audience makes the special sound with their mouths and you know that work and you get to pull another piece of Kleenex out of the box tomorrow. That's what I love about it.
And I've been doing it for a year now with none of that. And my kids got to see the guy crump for the first two weeks.
I kind of like just imploded in front of the camera. And then I went, okay, stop complaining.
This is what it is. And then I found some real enjoyment in it.
I found actually an ability to like take, take some risks that I couldn't with a live audience. That's all.
And it made me think of Jason too, because you said you, uh, you know, your daughter did your makeup and Jason's daughters do his makeup every morning before he goes to the mall or whatever. And I think that that's nice too, to have that connection.
You know what I mean? We got to connect once a day. Yeah, yeah.
You're dying to get back to audiences then, right? When do you think that'll happen? Probably in the next two, three months, right? Somewhere between three months and three years from now, because you keep on getting these different messages from people. But I think people are getting shots so quickly now.
You know, when people can like show proof of vaccination and we can do like a, like there are like seven minute rapid tests coming down the pipe when we can do that. Right.
And I can have 400 people that I don't want, I want to go back on that stage. Like I left that.
I bet that's June. I mean, now that Biden said May 1st, everyone's going to be, um, everyone's going to qualify.
Uh, that's, it's June, right? Middle of June. Yeah.
June, July, maybe after the 4th of July, something like that. Because if Biden says we can all get together for small parties in 4th of July, I think it's reasonable by mid-July, because we're off for those first two weeks.
By mid-July, we might be able to do that. But don't hold me to that, because I don't have any idea.
I don't know who else to hold it to. Yeah, me neither.
It kind of feels. It comes down on you, man, a little bit.
We'll come back to you and ask you what happened. So, if it doesn't go the right way.
Have you guys ever talked to Conan? Because he talks a lot. We talked to Conan.
We cut him off, though. We cut a fucking...
I want you to promise me you're not going to broadcast that. You have our word.
Because I promised him. I promised him.

Wait, about Conan?

About the ski trip?

About on the ski.

He said, I beg you, never say anything because this will ruin me. Yeah, no, no.

We've already cut that.

This will ruin me.

You have our word.

You are a very, very generous man with your time, your spirit, your stories, and your laughter.

Steven.

Oh, Steven.

Thank you, Jack.

Thank you so much. It's so funny.
Thank you very, very much for doing this thank you Stephen this was so fun you guys this was worth burning a couple hours on a Saturday I hope so we appreciate it very much thank you for being such a nice guest see you guys in the wrestling bye Stephen thanks man bye buddy so are we really leaving or really yeah yeah we're really leaving okay i just know what this one of those things where like you're gonna cut you broke me you broke me with the conan story you fucking broke me in half i never recovered true story i never recovered so we cannot use that is what you're saying how about this if he ever talks about it if he ever if he ever said anything about me dropping a deuce when we were skiing if he ever says anything like that then all bets are off obviously but i don't know anything about that because that never happened according to you the other one never happened either what what what did he say anything about me because i know nothing about listen no i can't we're not allowed to say anything about anything we're we're with an nda with you we're gonna nda with him yeah okay so you're saying he said something i mean i can't say that he said anything i don't even know i'm not even allowed to acknowledge the fact that he can talk okay good good and whatever you do whatever you do do not broadcast the fact that up close conan looks like one of those guys they fish out of a bog in ireland like who was sacrificed in some celtic ceremony like 3 000 years ago and and like you see him in a museum in dublin and they look like a catcher's mitt up in cooperstown that was used by like shoeless joe jackson but they forgot to oil for 100 years you don't want us to say that you don't want us to have you on record saying that that is that is super important of course not of course and we'll respect that we'll respect that right right exactly because he still can bust a move in this town and i don't want to make any of course sure you're safe with us we understand that all right goodbye this is for real goodbye steven thank you goodbye wow sean that guy should host a talk show and let me tell you something he knows how to get a conversation going Knows how to keep it going Keep it going Okay so that was crazy to hear Colbert tell a story that feels like we heard a different side of Yeah Conan has a completely different And the question is now who's the liar you know Right And I guess this is where it comes into what camp are you in Are you in Colbert's camp camp now? Right. Or are you in Conan's camp? I'm going to say, at first, I believed Conan.
But, you know, now that Stephen was just on him, maybe because he was just on, he was extremely persuasive in his stance. And specific.
And he was very specific, right, on the story. He seemed a lot more specific than Conan.
He actually implied or even said that the excrement was safety cone orange. Yeah.
Right. Obviously, again, as Colbert pointed out, in show business, you have to pick a side.
And you can never deviate from it. But I would say that knowing Conan, you know, historically, I've known Conan for whatever, 20 years.
He's such a fucking liar. So it's hard not to just immediately assume that he, because he a such a untruthful fucking person through and through i mean when you run into him he opens with a lie i don't know do you trust the fucking liar or do you trust the guy with the um i guess i'm gonna go colbert yeah yeah i'm team colbert let's just do that let's just land.
Yeah. All right.
Great guest. He is, though.
I mean, to be able to sustain the energy to do a daily talk show where you have to be, you know, interested every single day and write all of that stuff. And it's just.
I know. He's such a unique talent.
I don't really know him. I know him from through the biz- the biz industry through like uh award shows and stuff we'd always end up getting kind of corralled into the same area uh for a number of years um i guess quick wit i think that's background holding as it probably that's what they call it yes yes because that's what the bh was for yep and um and then they would uh but we and he was always uh he and his wife wife were always so delightful and sweet and funny and cool and normal.
Yeah. And then, of course, as a performer, he's just hilarious.
That's funny. Yeah.
Here's the other thing. Conan is such a liar that last year he tried to convince me, honestly, with a straight face, he tried to convince me that he grew up in Mumbai.
Mumbai! Bye! Bye! Smart. Nice.
Smart. Nice.
Hey, friends. Jason here.
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