"George Clooney"

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Hey, I'm Jason.

I'm Sean.

I'm Will.

They said do it quick, not like legal.

Hi, I'm Jason.

Hi, I'm Sean.

I'm Will, and it's an all-new SmartLess.

Let's go.

Let's go. SmartLess.

SmartLess. Hey, do you guys ever grind your teeth? Because last night I had this pain from my jaw through my ear all the way up to the top of my head.
And you don't have a chew bar or a mouthpiece? I don't have a chew bar. You know what? That's a good idea, though.
I could take a chew toy from my dog. Like a bit? How about a bite plate? Yeah.
Will, you probably just use your cereal spoon. You just sleep with your cereal spoon in your mouth? You know how much I love cereal.
And I like to mix cereal. Every time he calls me, he has a bowl of cereal in his mouth.
I mouth i know and i make big industrial i just finished off a nice big bowl of lentils a big lentil soup gosh that's delicious do you remember lentil soup yeah what do you mean i i'm not in a fight with my body so i eat healthy food so i don't need to remember lentils it was yesterday and a couple of days before that. Oh, man.
You really... Legumes?

You really showed me.

Yeah. Well, yeah.

Your body will go into shock when you give it frosted flakes seven days a week, and then

you give it some lentils off the same spoon.

You guys, I'm going to fight with my body, too.

That's why I'm drinking Juicy Juice this morning.

Why are you so angry at your colon?

You had to infantilize it,

right? You just needed to have a little kiddie name on it to make it and will you had a diet coke there did you yeah do you know the gang down at diet coke again i keep asking if they've got a face man or just a pitch man or a voice man because i'm i'm ready i don't think they they advocate drinking it at 10 0303 a.m. West Coast time.

They do like these large glass bottles of just orange liquid that I have here,

which is water and electrolytes.

I love those.

That's why at 67 years old I look like this.

And I love those bottles that look like you ripped them off of an Amish farm.

You know what I mean?

Just to keep it rustic in Beverly Hills.

I know.

God damn it. What a clown show.
Their style inside the fridge, which I think is going too far. Yeah, there's a lot.
I've seen your wife. But by the way, it should be noted, your wife has excellent taste.
She really does. In stuff, not in dudes.
Right. I feel like that's a shot at me, maybe.
Let me think about it.

Guys, I'm super excited about our guest today.

You know, it's not the biggest guest we've had on,

but still, this person was really kind to say yes to me,

and I've loved this person for a very long time.

An incredible story, actually.

This person played Bobby Hopkins on The Golden Girls,

one of my favorite characters on one of my favorite sitcoms,

and then, get this, didn't work for 20 years, and then out of nowhere wins an Oscar, right? What? We have an Oscar winner? Not since Roberto Benigni. Guys, it's George Clooney.
Hang on. Come on.
George. Hey, guys.
What? Whoa. George, did I skip anything? Did I get that right? Well, I was a little hurt that I wasn't the biggest star that you've ever had.
No, no, no. He didn't say biggest star, biggest guest.
And I think Kamala Harris, you would agree, has got to be right near the top, sharing the pinnacle with Stacey Abrams, perhaps. Yes, I would agree that I'm not in that league.
And maybe Paul McCartney? Can he be above your altitude? Well, you know, what has he really done? This is good. This is really good.
That was my attempt at being sarcastic, George. Can I say something? You know, I've been listening to this podcast, you like to call it.
He has notes. He's got notes, guys.
I wanted to do this show. I wanted to do this show because I do really enjoy it.
And I have to say I enjoy it mostly because I feel as if the guest really isn't involved at all in the show. You don't have to do anything.
There's no pre-interview. It doesn't matter who it is.
Sean doesn't even have questions. No, you talk about each other.
And we don't let you do any talking. And I enjoy it so much that I thought I'd just come on and just sit back yeah yeah you make a really good point and i want to get into that but first sean yeah what's up so you don't have the bite plate you don't have the cereal spoon george george i'm so excited you're here hanging out with us i'm so excited too and thank you, and thank you for taking the time.
I know you're in a crazy life. It's fun to see you guys.
You know, Sean, you know, Jason and I, people will not know this, but Jason was a very big star of a show called Silver Spoons. Yes.
And we were at Gower Studio. I was doing The Facts of Life.
It was like 1985 or 86, maybe.

And I'd set up a little basketball court out in the back,

and Jason, young Jason, very young Jason,

would come out and shoot some hoops,

and we would shoot around back a long time ago.

I had a nice mullet then.

Oh, you did.

You were trying to bite Stamos' style.

You were going for your blacky look. look well you know he he had it down by the way he did he looked good so george so you knew jason back then he came and he played basketball and then he kind of you know he has a long career in showbiz and then he and then he reaches new heights later in life and were you just as shocked as anybody to see him find success? I knew there was something hurtful at the end of it.
It was pretty surprising. You know, every once in a while, you know, we'd touch base.
I'd see him at an event. And I kept thinking, first of all, I'd think I haven't seen you in a while.
And then I would think, that's about right. You'd go, oh, that's why.
Look at him banging into the walls. There's the reason.
Everybody had shorted my stock and did very well. George, where are you right now, by the way? Because for some reason, it's hard for my brain to accept that you live in Italy because I prefer that you live in the same town that we do so I can just come and go as I please.
Well, I'm living in Boston as we speak. In fact, I'm looking out at the ocean right here.
I'm directing a film in Boston right now with Ben Affleck and some wonderful actors. I'm so excited that you're doing more and more and more directing.
Do you see that, not to get into a serious question, but do you have a sense of the ratio, how you'd love for it to go or not go? Is it all project related? I don't know. You know,

I mean, how much are you, you're doing a lot now, right? I'd prefer to do it full time only because,

uh, I'll bet like you, you, it's, it's so complicated and challenging, um, more so than the acting. Maybe, maybe it's a more difficult job.
I don't know, but you seem to be as comfortable

with the acting as, as I am and was, and you maybe want to take on a little bit more.

I don't know. But you seem to be as comfortable with the acting as I am and was.
And you maybe want to take on a little bit more. I think it's interesting.
First of all, it is that, you know, at some point, particularly when you've done television. Because when you're doing television, you're doing 22 hours a year of, you know, it's like doing 11 movies.
So, you know, you're doing a lot of acting and it's fun to be involved. But in general, you know, about 25 years ago, I just started looking at it and thinking, I don't want to worry about what some casting director thinks of how I'm aging.
You know, I'm going to be 60 this year. Well, well, by the way.
Just a fair update. Not as well as I'd hope.
Not a problem. But, you know, the alternative is death.
So I'll take it. George, let me ask you this.
I want to, so, so you mentioned television and I love the way that you kind of threw that out because up until kind of the nineties, up until when you were on ER, there was, there were television actors and there were film actors and you know, there was kind of that divide did exist. And sometimes, often people made the leap.
But there was that sort of, there was a kind of a, television actors were often frowned upon or looked down upon. Yeah, we were at the Golden Globes.
It's called the television tier in the back. Right.
And when you get to move down to the front, you feel really privileged. Yeah, yeah.
But you kind of, you threw that all away. You came off of VR, you went into film, you were instantly successful and did it in a way that kind of gave, I thought it was fucking rad and awesome and you don't delineate between any of it.
Well, I was lucky in a way. You know, it is funny.
You guys all know this, having done all of it. There is this weird pecking order that you learn the moment you get into acting, into the industry, where it's like the theater actors shit all over the film actors and the film actors shit all over the television.
It kind of was this, a lot of that seems to have gone by the wayside. I think part of the streaming thing has helped in a way because there's really interesting films.

Television really changed, honestly, with The S the sopranos in terms of the kind of things you could do you could you know there could be nudity and foul language and things that would i think it's been a kind of process clint eastwood came out of television well you bring up a good point if my memory is working right i feel like you made a big declaration there when you went over. It was Mimi's film, wasn't it, where you went from television into film.
Mimi leader. And then the other way, more recently, was the reverse direction was McConaughey and Woody when they went and did True Detective.
I remember that was a big shift as well. And so now everything was sort of cross-pollinated.
Again, I was kind of lucky because it's a really weird thing because David Caruso quit after one season of NYPD Blue and I think he won the Emmy that year and it was one of those things, he went off to do movies and said he's leaving and up until that point, if you wanted to leave your television series or get out of it, they didn't let you. I mean, you didn't go.
Pierce Brosnan couldn't get out to do Bond early on. And it's tons of stories of, you know, people being sued.
And then he left and it sort of kicked the door open. So the next year, ER came out and it was an even bigger hit.
And so the first question I was asked every day after the show hit was, you know, are you going to leave the show? Which I wasn't. I was like, no, I'm not going to leave.
But I wanted to, people were offering me movies and they said, we'll work it out so you can stay on the show and do a movie. So things changed sort of drastically because they were afraid that you would leave the show, which I had no intention of doing.
Was part of the no intention of leaving fueled by a sense of having an ongoing television series is like the greatest warm blanket you could ever have as an actor,

that you've got a gig at least eight months of the year?

Yeah.

I mean, how many, like I'd done seven television series before then

and 13 pilots.

Yeah.

That's such a famous story that you are that guy who did like all these pilots so i'm just doing them man yeah i did show sean i did a show called sunset beat where i played a rock star at night and a cop during the day art imitating life i did some shows and here by the way is there is one of the wait who's got the worst show let's hear it oh i think i i might take the gold on that come on let's hear i did a show that lasted two episodes on nbc with my buddy mike o'malley called the mike o'malley show and uh we were halfway through our seventh episode and they're like you guys can go home and we're like well we only aired two and there was it was like literally like a tuesday in this the morning after the second airing they were like we're all done here, so just come get your shit. Go to Radford with your tail between your legs and empty your dress.
You were back in that line at Warner Brothers auditioning, remember? Well, people might not know. Like the cruelest part of doing, and the same listener might not know what a pilot is.
A pilot is the first episode of a series. And then based on the quality of that episode, the network decides whether there's going to be a following you know 21 episodes to make a full season you know what jason this represents growth for you because thank you rarely do you do that you take the time to do anything for anybody else and in that moment to talk sean's my sister so george there's that there's a running thing where we explain things for listeners who may not be on the inside yes i've heard i heard.
I've heard you explain it. In fact, you're explaining to me now what I actually know.
Well, we're going to add you to the runner now. So for George and for Aunt Tracy, Sister Tracy.
It's Sister. It's Sister Tracy.
I'm honored. Okay.
So anyway, so the cruel part is that, just to finish my long-winded story, when you go in and you read for a pilot tracy um you sign a document that you see on a single page what your fees are going to be for the next five years with the five percent bumps built you get the job you get this job you're about to go audition for in the next 20 seconds so you actually see i mean and you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars to somebody who is signing that piece of paper really needs it almost by definition and it's no leverage like you don't need any more pressure and there's five other guys signing the same piece of paper yeah it's a look at him like i could i could fucking kill this guy yeah and you had to go through that pain repeatedly george so that's so you get on er and people ask you you're gonna leave the show like fuck no i stay here until they drag me out. Yeah.
I mean, and I remember the first, the show, we were getting like 42 million people to watch the show. That's crazy.
And those are numbers that are just unheard of when we had 150 channels. And I remember Noah Wiley saying, is that good? And you go, yeah, that's good.
Yeah, that's that's good that's pretty good i didn't watch er a lot when it was on first run but my ex amy whom i think you know uh amy polar she is a absolute er junkie really oh my god and so we watch every episode every night so i got to know you on your ER. My wife is watching them now.
And it's getting me in a lot of trouble because I've forgotten all of the, you know, terrible things I was doing, picking up on women. Wouldn't it be great if you started to notice that she started to get just a little bit starstruck around you? Like, you know when you work with some people and, like like you're midway through the production and you happen to watch one of the things you've never

seen that they're really famous for and then you show up to work the next day and this happened to

be a hundred times and i'm just like kind of weird around them now just sort of like hey so um i saw

such and such last night and oh my god you were so good i get it yeah that's not my wife

wait i want to ask you a question about that if it it's okay, George. You know, other than the fact that your wife is gorgeous and the most perfect person on the planet, what we're, because I was, you know, we aren't like, we don't hang out every day.
Like, people probably think we do. Yeah.
They don't. But I was like, sorry, I'm like,, oh my God, this guy could probably have settled down many, many times.

Like, other than the fact that Amal is the perfect person for you and your children are perfect and your life is perfect now.

What was the, is there reasons behind the 20 year lapse of like, oh, I don't want to go that, I don't want to go that route.

I don't want to get.

What a softball.

This is a great, this is an easy.

And by the way, answer that quickly.

Right now, what's your answer on that? Just the word. Yes.
You know, I, the truth was I met this amazing woman and she took my breath away and she was brilliant and funny and beautiful and, uh, and kind. And, uh, you know, I sort of swept off my feet.
We got engaged after a few months and got married within the first year that we met. That's awesome.
It surprised me more than probably anybody else in the world, and everybody else was pretty surprised. And now babies, right? I got two.
I got twins, man. How old are they? They're three and a half.
They're monsters. Wait, but three and a half, that's such a fun age.
Everything gets destroyed in a second. Are you having, because if you're like me, you discovered that.
He's not, by the way, in any way. Keep going.
You discovered the first 12 months is garbage, and then after 12 months, it's the part they all have been talking to you about. Like, oh, having kids is the greatest thing in the world.
I really got it after 12 months. And then it's just exponentially better and better and better.
Well, the first 12 months, the guy has literally no business. Right? They don't care about you at all.
They're like mom for everything, for food, for everything. So all you're really doing is cleaning up a lot of shit and feeling sort of useless.
And then, yes, the fun starts. My son now, who every mistake he makes as a child is in trying to be funny.
And so, like the other day, he literally did the peanut butter joke where he puts it on his shoe, and he stands there and he goes, he starts going, Papa, Papa. And I go, yeah, and he goes, you smell poo-poo.
And I'm like, no. and I look down and he goes he starts going papa papa and he's i go yeah he goes you smell poo poo and i'm like no and i look down and he looks down at his shoe and he picks up the peanut butter off of his shoe with his finger and then he eats it come on that's pretty high level and he goes oh and i was like kind of humor i loved it that's great i was so wait did he pick that up do you think from you or do you have him – because I learned a lot of humor from watching television and cartoons and stuff.
People say don't let your kids watch TV. No, I taught him that.
Yeah, because that seems like – that's a George joke right there. Yeah, I mean anytime you can use Nutella, peanut butter, and a nappy.
And crunchy. Crunchy sort of adds a little bit of like – Nutella in a nappy and get them to put the nappy like halfway on and then take it off and go to mama and go mom and then that's hilarious that is so on brand from what I've gleaned from you over the years and I want to get to because I've told this story a million times and it and I just retell you telling it I think I saw you tell it on Carson, I think, years ago.
And it was, because you know, you're very close with Richard Kind. Yeah, and whom I've had the pleasure.
I ran into him last week. Hello, Jason.
Hello, Will. He's such a great guy.
Sean, you were very good, but I was better. The guy is hilarious.
I was in the big knife. I killed.
But you told a great story when you guys were roommates. Would you please bore these guys? Oh my God, I do.
Please tell the story about the cat. Well, you have to understand we were sharing, I was living in his apartment.
Got through a bad breakup and I was living in his, and I was an unemployed actor. He was doing the Carol Burnett show, the remake of the Carol Burnett show.
And I would watch Jeopardy, and there would be that, Richard loves, he thinks he's a genius at Jeopardy, too, as you can imagine. And so I would watch the East Coast feed, and then he would come home, and then I would just know all the answers for the West Coast feed, he thought he's still to this day until he hears this will have thought that I was the greatest jeopardy player in the history of jeopardy that's been and it's all horseshit Richard if you're listening fuck you that's great and I would be home and I had nothing to do and he had this little tiny kitten that he would sleep with on his chest, and he called it Kitty.
And he'd keep it in the apartment because we're in Hollywood, you know, over on Hayworth. And he was working, and I'm waiting for an audition.
And I go into the bathroom, and there's a kitty litter box next to the toilet, and it's got cat shit in it, and I scoop it up, and I flush it down the toilet. I go in, I'm watching Jeopardy, I think.
And Richard comes home and he goes to the bathroom. He comes out and he goes, my little kitty has not taken a shit in, I think three days.
And I don't say anything. I don't know why.
I just don't say anything. I just am like, ah.
And the next day, the cat takes a shit. I flush it down the toilet.
Richard checks. And it goes on for like three or four, five days.
Meanwhile, you're just trying to be a good roommate, right? I'm just trying to be a friend at this point, you know. Yeah.
And then he takes the cat to the vet. And they give him this, like, kitty Metamucil, you know, to clean your colon.
You understand this, Jaden. Sure.
And so now this little kitten is shitting like 15 times a day, and I'm scooping. I got nothing to do, right? I'm reading like Hardcastle and McCormick auditions, you know? Oh, my God.
And I've got nothing else to do. And so I'm flushing.
And Richard's checking. I don't know.
He flips a cat on his back, and he's like, feel his stomach. Does it feel tight to you? It feels kind of tight to me.
Again, I have no idea why. It's just funny.
And then I scoop up some cat shit, I don't know, after a couple of weeks. And then the light bulb goes off and I realize what I must do.
Sure. Which is take a shit in the cat box.
Now there is this moment, Sean, when I'm squatted down over a cat box where i'm going really yeah mom and dad were right i should have been a lawyer yeah exactly i love the moment that it occurs to you oh yeah you're just like going huh it's funny it's. I'm not sure it's how I want to be remembered, but it's good.
What was the reaction? So I went, and when I'm watching Jeopardy, Richard comes home. We're talking for a minute.
He goes in the bathroom. He's in there for like a minute, and I don't hear anything.
And then all of a sudden I hear, oh, my God. Oh, my God.
Get him. And he comes running out, and he goes, you're not not going to – you have to come see this.
The cat is like six inches long. I mean, the tiny cat.
Get it. Everything bad about it.
And literally I come in and I just – tears coming down my eyes. I'm laughing.
And slowly he figures it out. And over a whole – it's this long thing where he realizes that I've been shoveling the catch it out.
And he gets madder and madder and madder. And finally he's like, I understand humor.
Defecation doesn't make me laugh. He's just screaming at me.
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I really respect that kind of commitment to that bit over weeks. The slow burn of it, fucking, I get it.
Will, I did one where I found a painting that someone threw away. It was sitting outside in the garbage.
I took it home, put it in my closet, got some paint, acrylic paint, and painted my name to it. I bought an easel and paints.
I set it up in my living room. And Richard would come over and go, you want to play golf? And I can't.
I can't. I got art class.
That is genius. And then I would go to those little, those flea markets and I'd buy paintings for like $12 that were good and I'd hang them up on the easel and Richard would come in and go, this is unbelievable.
And the painting I took from the garbage is six feet by three feet of a naked woman in the worst. It's in aqua and pink.
It's the worst painting you've ever seen in your life. And after a year of like him, you know, I made him stop at art supplies stores with me to feel brushes and palette knives.
And he kept saying, this is just amazing what you're doing. And he's seen all these other paintings that are pretty decent.

And he's going, it's really amazing.

And finally, I go, for his 40th birthday, I said, Richard, you've been so supportive.

You know, my art teacher thinks this is the best thing I've ever done, and I want you to have it.

And it looked great hanging up on your one-bedroom wall in the living room.

And he rips this thing open, and he's like, it's great. it's just great it's it's it's beautiful and i said it was look good over your couch and for two years everyone knew except richard that i'd taken it out of the garbage so everyone would come into his house and compliment him on his painting i'm sure you were there that you just go a great painting.
And finally, I did, I think the Tonight Show, told the story, and then said, you know, and I came home and said, Richard, you should watch the Tonight Show, and I got the call. I hate that painting.
What's wrong with you? That is so funny. And doing the bit like that, also, telling him through the Tonight Show, then you told the other one on The Tonight Show, and then didn't you one time, Julianne Markley, she asked you for stories and you stole her story and told it the night before she was going to be on? Do you remember that? I told her, it was something horrible where I, oh, I told her a story that happened to my mom.
Yeah. And I told her to tell the then I have I had like my mom and her both telling the story like intercut back and forth that's hilarious like tell it as if it's your own and then they revealed it on the show after she told the story I think maybe it was Leno and said yeah it's funny you should say that because here we have and they put up the video and you totally set her up that's so funny Julian had had my head on a pike for about a year for that one so I I learned my lesson on trying to be funny at the expense of your co-star.
God damn, that makes me laugh. I want to get back to your life, George, because it's interesting and I love you and it's fascinating.
Go, Grandma. Good, here we go.
No, I want to know, by the way, sidebar, my sister, I didn't tell Will and Jason this. I think for every guest that I bring on, like George today, I asked my sister from Wisconsin, who we kind of, you know, break things down for so she understands.
I asked her to send in a question for George today. And whenever I have somebody, I think that'd be kind of fun.
A new element. Sure.
So from my sister Tracy in Wisconsin, she asks, quote, she texted this to me yesterday. Do it in a Wisconsin accent, please.
Okay, well, it's different than Chicago. Hey, George.
Like, I want to know what leading lady wasn't in like a joking mood and he got annoyed with them. Maybe they were having an off day and didn't think any of your antics were funny, George.
Oh, so she just wants dirt. She wants dirt.
You're going to have to apologize for her nationally. Who's grumpy? She wants to know who's grumpy.
No, no. Exactly.
All right, we'll skip that. I can't think of anyone, because, you know, I'm not, I, in general, didn't play horrible pranks on anyone who I was actually going to do a love scene with, because that always ends poorly.
Yeah. Almost always.
Right. Did you ever hear that saying right before a love scene? I can't remember whose story it it's a famous story and they said to the actress the guy said to the actress I apologize if I get hard and I apologize if I don't exactly I think it was probably like David Niven who always had the great quotes yes remember David Niven at the Oscars when the guy was streaking do you remember that the guy was streaking and Niven just turned to the camera and said, it's amazing that the guy's, you know, the greatest moment of this man's life is, you know, by taking off his clothes and showing the world his shortcomings.
Just like that. It was like that, yeah.
I was going to streak. I rehearsed it.
I was going to streak the year that Frank Owen and Hathaway hosted. and i went down and i knew those guys you know bruce conan and his and his partner there were producing and so i went and i abc said well you got to wear flesh-colored underwear if you're going to go across and i said well i can't that's not the then it won't be as funny i got to go and be be holding it otherwise there's no point doing it like then it's just it's phony and i wanted to do this bit where I go across, I was going to do this bit where I go across and then try to go up the other side and then slowly creep back and say that the door was locked and sorry about that.
Right? So I reversed it. It was great.
And then ABC was like, and I wasn't wearing underwear and I was just holding all my, all and cheeses, and I'm coming across, and they go, and then ABC, I see them huddling in the audience, and they come up, and they're like, yeah, you're not doing that. I'm like, what? They're like, no, we're not running the risk of, no, that's, thank you.
Do you still get paid? I still got my SAG. Yeah, it was great.
And then I filled some seats on the night, and it was great. Yeah, that's a good job.
Yeah, the minute someone else wins, you've got to sit right down. I want to ask some more father-children questions because that's where you are in your life now.
Yes, I am. So with children in your life who are gorgeous and amazing, and obviously with age, a shift comes where, you know, things you deemed important before your priority list completely changes.
So what are some of those things that you kind of pushed down the list after meeting Amal and having a family? Because all we have is time. And so now that's compromised when you are away for four to six months like you are in Boston right now.
Well, my kids and wife are here. Okay.
Next question. Yeah.
So that is your question. Next, Tracy.
Do you have any more questions for Tracy? Sure, Tracy. Yeah, I will say this.
You know, there is a funny thing that happens, and, you know, I'm late to the game. I'm like Tony Randall having children at, you know, I'm 59 and I've got a three-year-old.
But it's what everyone else knows, which is that all the things that seemed important aren't, you know, they really aren't. And it's hard to imagine them not being important before the kids showed up, or before my wife showed up, quite honestly.
There was so many other things that I was concerned with. You're concerned with making a living when you first start out as an actor.
All you want to do is make a fucking living. You don't want to wait tables or, you know, sell insurance door to door, which I did.
You just want to work and you want to have a living. And then you want to have some sort of career at some point.
And then you want to have some acknowledgement of your work. All these things are so important at the time.
And then someone like Amal walks into your life. These kids show up magically and everything changes.
And all of a sudden, none of that really. You look back and you go, God, it was such a mad race to something that, you know, doesn't give you any of the, you know, it's amazing when things are great, but it comes and goes very quickly.
And, you know, you go home and there's these knuckleheads there and it changes everything. And do you feel there's pressure about like, you know, they're growing up with you as a father and her as a mother and, and that, that you have a legacy.
And so how do you handle that? Well, I worry about this. I will say this, you know, all kidding aside, I do worry about the idea, you know, I was friends with Gregory Peck.
I was friends with Paul Newman. And, you know, they had sons who lost their lives, you know, quite honestly, from trying to live probably under the pressure of having, you know, someone famous as their father.

I think there's an advantage for me.

I'm a lot older than they were.

My son isn't ever going to feel competitive with me. I'll be gumming my bread by the time they could feel competitive.
So I think that that kind of goes out the window a little bit. You know, my wife is such an accomplished human being on so many levels.
And she is so, the work she does and how hard she works at it, you know, it'll always be something that will be difficult for either of our kids to live up to, you know, in a much more important way. But, you know, as you guys do, you have kids, you understand this.
It's the same thing. It's our job to make sure that they care about people, that they challenge people in power and look out for people who don't have power.
Those are kind of the things I was raised with and believe in. Have you enjoyed what being a husband and being a father has done to your instincts, either premeditated or even on the fly, with what you do as an actor or a director, your whole sensibility and perception? Let me spin it around.
Did it change things for you guys? It did for me. Yeah, things got more subtle, more sort of surgical in my taste in performance.
The things I choose to sort of frame up and try to amplify as a director. I'm sort of tuned into a different frequency.
I don't know if it's a better one or a worse one, but different things, like I cry watching commercials now. Never used to do that.
But there, you know, there's a whole side of me that is much, much softer now. I cry watching Batman and Robin.
And Jason tries to, but it's funny how Jason, he takes that question of like, yeah, and how it applies to him as an actor and a director, not as a human being, like a fucking robot. And, you know, because he has, there is no inner life.
When you scratch the surface, it's more surface. But here, I will say this.
Yeah, it's totally, for me, I will say, as a human being, thank you, George, talking to another human being, it completely shifted

everything. Yeah.
Like you said, it, it, it, you reprioritize. It's a brand new perspective.

The perspective that I had for leading up to my first son at 38 completely shifted. And what I

do, what my priorities are, whatever it is, does it fit my life? And by life, I mean, does it fit

my kid's life? And so I find myself, I probably sold myself short a lot professionally because I tried to do everything I could for my kids. And I don't know if that's smart or at the end of the day, somebody's going to say you should have been more selfish.
I don't know. But it's just the way I did it.
Here's the funniest part of that. I mean, and I know what you're saying.
but there's, I don't think anyone is ever going to say at the end of the day, God, I wish we'd done two more interesting films rather than, God, I'm really glad I spent this time with my kids or I did this with my kids. Right.
That's, I think, the part of the lesson that took me a long time to learn and having children has taught me, which is, and the pandemic is sort of teaching us all too, which is, you know, we're all learning how deeply connected we need to be and how important it is that we have other things besides our work. Because, you know, we know too many people who have been immensely successful in our industry.
I mean, all of us have worked with major stars who are no longer stars. know shit goes away things change the rules change but it's if you have this core this family these people that matter to you then you know you can handle anything yeah yeah and i see jason i i all joking aside i mean you know i gave jason shit the other day i passed him on sunset he was dropped and there he's driving his Hyundai Palisades, not as a plug, Jason.
It's a great car. Great car, you know.
Oh, God. Got a fold-down seat in the back.
And I see him and he's dropping Maple off at a friend's house, you know, and like those are the things we've become. It's so funny.
20 years ago, Jason and I would have been like, look at that clown driving around in the thing. And now I'm passing him and I've just dropped my kids and he's dropping his daughter at the thing.
That's what I was doing. By the way, when you guys were doing that, I was passing you calling you clowns.
Yeah. Exactly.
I was like, look at those fucking clowns. I'm living the life.
What do you want? Well, now I'm literally like behind you cleaning up, and washing everything. I find myself – even whether you have kids or you're just in love, thinking about mortality and also getting older.
And then we just had this incident with Tiger in town. And it made me think about you, George, about your accident.
And i've never talked to you about it and i didn't do any reading um about it when it did happen aside from like oh god i hope he's all right i didn't i didn't want to you know comb through it and stuff but what was and i don't mean to ask you to tell stories i bet you told a bunch of when it actually happened but did the did the tiger incident bring back some of those memories for you with respect to your mortality now that you've got a family too, that there's an added thing to all of that? You're talking about Tiger Woods' accident in his car quite a while ago. And George had an accident in Italy, right? I think Tracy saw that in the news, Sean.
Yeah, Tracy got that. Thanks for specifying which Tiger we're talking about.
Well, because we don't know when this is going to air and it's going to be a while later. Right, another tiger might become, yeah, famous.
Well, look, I will say this. I've been in a couple of funky situations before where I kind of thought it was going to be lights out.
A couple of times in South Sudan where I thought that. But I didn't have a family and kids and things.
Look, I hit a guy at 70 miles an hour in a motorcycle and I was launched and knocked out of my shoes and hit the ground. And I broke his windshield in with my helmet and then went flipping up in the air.
And I was fairly sure because I'd been riding for 40 years. I was fairly sure I knew what that meant, which was probably that I'd broken my neck.
And I read that you landed literally on your knees and your hands or something like that? I landed on my hands and knees when I finally hit the ground. You can actually watch it.
There's CCTV footage of it. You can see me going, flipping through the air.
Wow. And, you know, I have to, it was just luck.
I mean, you know, if I'd landed on any other direction, I would have been, you know, definitely dead.

And so I remember this about it, which is an interesting thing.

I'm a pretty optimistic guy, and I actually, you know, I look at the world in a fairly, you know, I always think the best of us.

But there was this moment when I hit the ground, and Grant, one of my closest, maybe my closest friend and partner. The great and creative Grant Hesloff.
Yeah, Grant Hesloff. He was in the motorcycle ahead of me and he came running back and he's holding me.
I'm laying on the ground and I got glass in my mouth. I thought it was my teeth.
It was a windshield glass in my mouth. And I really thought this was it.
And all the people that got out stood over me. And once they realized it was me, pulled out their cameras and started, you know, taking pictures.
And I'll remember that forever because I always think, you know, that moment that was probably going to be your last was somebody's entertainment for, and it doesn't make me bitter. It just, it just changes my perception of why, you know, is it that important that I have to please everybody and all the, you know, it's that thing of just going, okay, I get it.
Fair enough. You know, if that's how it is, you know, I thought it was a little more, more than that.
But you got to take care of you first and foremost at all times. So it's kind of, yeah.
No, not don't think in terms of that. I just think in terms of, you know, sometimes we get kind of caught up in the idea that it's more than just entertainment or something like that.
Yeah, the expectation on human beings is lowered a little bit when stuff like that happens. Well, you see somebody fall on the subway in New York and everybody everybody pulls out their phone.
Yeah. Put your fucking phone down.
Yeah, and lend a hand. Jason and I got in a taxi accident in New York like a year and a half ago on 23rd Street.
And we got on the side and we're like, geez, and the cab's smoking. And we look over and there's a kid right next to us filming us.
Really? Yeah, we're like, hey, man. Can you use that phone to call the cops, please? Yeah, that was the thing.
Call the cops. I actually told this story.
I got hit by a car on 57th Street like four years ago. And he was doing at least 40, and I was looking the wrong way, and he spun me out, and I landed on my feet, but I kind of spun.
I came so close to death because he just caught me. He just sort of sideswiped me.
And I got to the other side and I was so fucking rattled right at Park Avenue and I get over to the other side and I look at him and I'm like, Jesus Christ, I almost fucking died. Look at this guy.
He's looking at me and I go, did you see that? And he goes, yeah. Can I get a picture? And I went, Jesus, I almost fucking died, asshole.
But, you know, George, you bring up something. Did you take the take the picture though that's what's important i did take the picture because he seemed like a genuine fan but george you you i went to i remember one time i don't know if you remember this the first time we really met i was with john krasinski we went for sushi and uh you guys were working on leatherheads at the time yep and and um there's a great thing we gave you i gave you a ride back to your house.
And, uh, you guys were working on leather heads at the time. And, and, um, there's a great thing we gave you, I gave you a ride back to your house and this struck me and I loved it.
And you're directing a movie and you're George Clooney and you've done all this great stuff and you're doing more great stuff. And I was really, I really, and, and kind of Sean mentioned it before too, you know, you've done, and you talked about it, you've done all these pilots, you know, I did like seven pilots.
I had 50 canceled shows. I did every variation that you could of cancel before it went, got fired off a show before it got picked up, like just all of it.
And so I always like, in a lot of ways, and I, and I'm almost embarrassed to say this because I hate giving up any power, but you were often in a lot of ways, a very much a North star for me in a lot of ways. And so it was really cool.
And we drive back to your house and we get to the gate and I forget what it was, but you, and I'm driving and I said, what's the code? And by the way, the gate looked like it was at a, you know, just at a goat rodeo. It could have fallen off and you could walk around it and you go like, yeah.
And you go like it's like one the code's one two three four

no you know what are you out of your mind and then we drive up to the house we walk out we get out and you go it's okay door is open and i go and i said to you i go are you crazy you got the fucking world look at your gate is one two three four your door is open you go yeah i'm just not going to be a prisoner. Yeah.
And it like floored me.

It floored me.

And also I was like, that's fucking rad.

Good for you.

Well, I now have a better code with kids.

Yeah, of course.

Of course.

Of course.

But that was, you know, 15 years ago.

And by the way, I don't live there.

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At the risk of embarrassing you, you really have very consistently sort of represented a way in which to do this fame and fortune thing that I think gives actors a good name. I will just say you have always been so effortless with your, with your just keeping it kind of real.
Um, it's never, it's never waned. Um, even the responsibility, uh, of, of, of using your, your platform to, to speak up every once in a while about things that you think are left or right of good.
And with that specifically, are you, and I don't want to get you into a political place that you're not comfortable with or any of us are comfortable with in today's climate. But given today's climate, do you find yourself thinking twice or three times now before you talk about certain things that might really bug you as opposed to how you may have felt five, ten years ago? No, I think it's the exact opposite.
You know, I think that, you know, there's a line in the film I wrote, Good Night and Good Luck, that Murrow says, because this is no time for people who have opinions to be silent. You know, there was a period of time a couple years ago where the executive branch, the legislative branch, and the judicial branch were all kind of dropping the ball in a way.
And in some ways, you need the fourth estate to pick up. You need the news organizations and things like that to pick up the slack.
And they did. They did a pretty good job of holding people's feet to the fire.
And the judicial branch actually came around eventually. But along those lines, you know, you need people.
You got to be out there if you believe it. You know, and listen, you can be John Boyd and believe that Trump's, you know, a god and say those things.
Fair enough. You know, have at it.
You know, do your thing. But I do believe that this is a time where if you have, you know, I'm not going to lose my right of citizenship because I'm, you know, I've reached a place of success in my career.
And, you know, I grew up in the 60s, man. You know, we were, if you weren't talking about social issues, if it was the Vietnam War, the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement or any of those things, you know, there was something wrong with you.
And so I grew up with the idea that it's your responsibility to pick fights. What good is this sort of megaphone if you don't get to try to amplify certain things? And I find it more interesting now.
Speaking to that, because you're part of, not in our watch project, the tons of foundations and organizations. Is there one you're most proud of that you pay most attention to that you're most involved? Well, Mal and I have the, we have this foundation, the Clooney Foundation for Justice, and we're doing some pretty amazing stuff.
Like we're right now monitoring the Navalny trial in Russia. It's a fascinating moment.
We have trial watchers in about 30 different countries. Countries are using the court system to commit the same crimes that they normally would do without the court system.
So they're basically saying, well, the judge found them guilty when the judge is also the prosecutor. Right, right.
And this will be, you know, finding guys guilty for being gay in Nigeria and, you know, all kinds of just insane stuff. So we're putting trial watchers in there.
We're trying to, because this is all happening in the darkness. And so we're trying to be able to set up and create a method and a way to monitor and keep and hold these people responsible.
It takes time. You have to build enough cases up to basically create a justice index and where those countries stand on those.
Well, that's so rad. And by the way, I just found, yesterday, I just found Sean guilty of being gay here in America.
I just came out. He's got a trial coming up soon.
Verdict just came in. What happened to, so do you guys know, I know that publicly they say they don't know where Navalny went, but specifically, do you guys have an idea of where he went or and they said you know he's not gonna be treated any differently where he's being kept you may they're sending him to a work camp now which is a pretty dangerous spot to go but i don't think anyone knows which one maybe they do i haven't have a check but you know we we also have one of the parts of our foundation something that started before omar and met, was a thing called the Sentry.
And we're doing with that, you know, the idea of following these, you know, war criminals. I used to do all this stuff.
We had a satellite that we rented and we would shine it over the border of Sudan and be able to follow troop movements and mass graves

and you know we had

really good success

at being able to point out these atrocities

but nobody did anything about them

right? Nothing. You'd have it on the front page of the New York

Times and nothing would happen and we always

say these things like never again

but it's always again. It always happens.

Right. And so

what became really clear was you can't make these bad guys be good but they don't give a shit but there's tons of people who are doing business with these bad guys yeah who you can't because they want to put on a goddamn tux and go to an award show or go to a banquet because it'll be you know for a while it was the banks who were ignoring these guys who were spending, you know, they're not doing it in Sudanese pounds. They were doing it in pounds and dollars and euros and they're banking in our Western banks.
So you go to them and say, well, these guys are laundering about $400 million in your bank. And the banks turned around and said, give us all the information.
We give it to, you know, to the U.S. government mostly to try and freeze their assets to the Treasury Department.
We even did it with the Trump Treasury Department. We gave them tons of information and they froze assets.
And it's the same thing. So it's really fun to be able to, you know, go to people who really think that they're the good guys and say, well, you're not looking that hard.
So we're going to tell you this and I'm going to hold a press conference tomorrow, and either you're going to say, yeah, we have nothing to do with these guys, or I'm going to tell them you're complicit. And once you do that, you shut down the avenues for these people to spend their money, and that's a big way.
You know, we had a good, fun time with the Sultan of Brunei on that as well, and it was really effective. That's so rad.
And on that level,

you're not just using your platform

and your voice.

You're actually involved in a real way

and obviously, you know,

follow the money.

But by hurting them there,

you're really affecting change

in a real way.

That's super fucking rad.

Well, I'll tell you,

it's a funny thing.

Here's the deal.

All the things we did,

we were talking about earlier,

whether it makes the cut for your podcast or whatever, all the things we were talking about earlier, the pranks that you play, right? The way, when you're playing a prank, you're basically trying to set people up to react the way you want and to get them to do what you want to fuck with them, right? Well, that's what you're doing with world leaders in the same way, with people who are war criminals in the same way. You're going, okay, well, I'm going to...
Shit on a paper plate. Exactly.
Shit on a paper plate and stick it on the... But that's the truth, because that's sort of the mentality with this.
I have a completely different question that we're going to end on, and this is from my brain, George. Okay.
If you could, out of the entire cast, if you could have, out of the entire cast of Ocean's Eleven, besides Julia Roberts, slept with somebody who would have been. You got Pitt.
Please say Brad Pitt. You got Damon.
Please say Brad Pitt. Is this another one from Tracy? Brad Pitt.
It's from me. Tracy, the answer is Brad Pitt.
Yeah. Come on.
That's a no-brainer. Same.
Same. I mean, come on.
You guys feel the same way. He's a pretty boy pit.
I'll tell you something. We went to, for Ocean's 12, we went to Europe to do the premiere.
And we ride in. Jerry Weintraub does everything big, so he's got us on a yacht.
And we're going up to Monaco first on our way to Cannes. Sure.
To open Ocean's 12. Because Ocean's 12 is a perfect Cannes

film. Sure.
That's exactly what you want to take to Cannes. So we're getting there and we take off and we're in Monaco.
There's the Grand Prix. We have our names on the back of a Jaguar race car.
Wow. Right.
And while we're riding there, the car rolls over and catches on fire and our names are in flames, you know, above the thing.

Oh, my God.

We get there, and it's Pitt and Cheadle and Damon and I, and we're all in this boat. And there's surrounded by 50 paparazzi pontoon boats, you know, everywhere just trying to get your picture.
And Brad's like, I'm going to go up on the top and jump off of this thing. It's like six stories high

and we're like, okay, let's do it.

We go up there to jump

and Brad takes off his shirt

and it's like something Michelangelo's

carved out of marble, right?

It's just like ridiculous.

And then Matt goes,

and he pulls off his shirt,

which is like something

that Pillsbury Doughboy cut out of him.

You know, it was like, and I'm standing there and I'm looking at him and I go, what's wrong

with you, man?

Who take your shirt off right now in front of all these people?

Unless you wanted a comfortable, unless you wanted a comfortable chest to sleep on, then

you'd go for Matt, you know, it's at the pillow you can punch.

You know, he'll, Matt will get in like shape.

I mean, he'll be like, you know, Jason Bourne, you know. But off-season, you know, it's wine and beer.
Let's stay warm, yeah. Yeah.
It's like. I remember I was at a Bon Iver concert, Jason.
You'll love this. And we were talking to Justin Vernon, and we come, and Brad came in, and he goes, hey, man, I really loved your show that you did for Netflix.

I said, oh, thanks.

And we went out the door and I slid down the wall and I cried, oh, my God, he's so gorgeous.

Now, wait a second.

If he's validating Bon Iver, I'm in.

Because he did that for me with Radiohead.

I had no idea Radiohead was way back when.

And I still am addicted to Radiohead because he stamped it.

So I'm on Bon Iver now.

I love them.

I also said to him, I said, you know, Brad, you know what movie has aged really well? Benjamin Button. That's so dumb.
Incredible. Incredible, Will.
He liked it. We were shooting Oceans 12 in Italy.
Brad, you know, we'd been doing shit to each other, pranks to each other. And Brad took out, put posters on telephone poles all around my hometown in Como, Laleo, this little town, that said, you know, George Clooney is here shooting now and he only wants to be referred to by his character named Danny Ocean.
And don't look him in the eye. Just like, and in the newspaper, it gets like, Il Divo.
And I'm like, fuck,'m like I'm gonna fuck this guy up and so he had a Prius and I I went to one of those shops that you go to that has bumper stickers and license plate things and I found a bumper sticker that was in the shape of a pot plant that said fuck cops there's no way you don't get pulled over with that on the back of your car. It lasted one day.
He came over and goes, dude, that was, that was cold, man. Has there been any like garbage about you or fake news about you that has made you laugh? Like, that is so crazy.
It always makes us laugh. I to you know it's funny because it's i'm every day literally every single day i'll get you know life and style or national inquire is gonna run this story you have an hour to respond and it's always just like you know yeah it just makes us laugh i was just right back to like stand my clothes and just say say, suck it.
Because it's just like, you know, what's your response? Suck it. You know.
Yeah, yeah. If you're going to be childish, I can be childish.
I love that. I don't know.
There's no, the idea that I'd ever see something that even had a grain of truth would be funny. You know, you handle it all with so much grace.
You always you always will keep leading it for all of us

please yes and i know you don't do a lot of press my friend and you're very picky so thank you for being on our well listen i want to say this you guys and this is absolutely the truth i have grown a uh this this habit of listening to podcasts i like to listen to them when i get in bed at night some of them I use

to help me sleep

not that that's a bad thing

I'm talking about yours i listen to like american history tellers and stuff because i like history ones and i like to learn stuff and i got turned on to yours a while back and i have to say i can't play it at night when i want to go to sleep because i sit up and listen to it and laugh through the whole thing. You guys make me laugh.
Well, you made our day. I've known all of you, and I'm a giant fan.
But, man, you guys together are hysterical. Thank you, George.
Thank you, buddy. Likewise.
It's fun. Really, really appreciate you coming on, man.
Yeah, total honor. It's good to talk to you.
Very nice. All right.
Enjoy the rest of your day, pal. Okay.
Bye, guys. See you soon, buddy.
Bye. See you, George.

Sean, what a great— Holy shit.

Sean, you got real moves.

You know I love George Clooney.

You know I love George Clooney.

Who doesn't?

Yeah, true.

GC in the house.

Well, if you had had a heads up that it was going to be George,

would you have worn anything different?

Would you have done anything different with your hair?

Do you think you would have moisturized a little bit more, something like that well why do i not look you look a little dry um your your black shirt is disappearing into your black uh background there i feel like you probably would have yeah you would have gone for something don't by the way normally i normally i'd hit back with something else you know really trying to take still a little stunned. But I'm really, I'm so worried and my self-esteem is so shaky around George that that's, so I got to ask you, are you being serious? Because I can't take it.
No, I'm not being serious. Because I might cry.
You did very, very well and so did Sean. We, I, I, I think that was awesome.
Yeah, I read a lot of stuff that he, there's tons of stuff I wanted to get to that I couldn't. But I read a lot of stuff before he came on and he's just – I love that it was like exactly as I've always kind of known him to be and I assume our audience always hopes him to be, which is like this perfect balance of funny and smart and a and, and a, and a listener and a speaker.
And, you know, I mean, it's just, he's, he's, he's a perfect man. The other thing that I love, which, and it was kind of was evident in that story that I told about when I went over to his house with, with Krasinski and we go for Krasinski goes sushi.
I mean, Clooney just texted me. Let's go get some sushi.
I almost

said sushi just texted me. So we go over and then he says, and then George says, Hey, can you give me a ride home? And I'm like, yeah, no problem.
And so I give him a ride home and he was so cool and he was so down to earth and he was so the same. He's the same guy that you see when he's on Carson or whatever or Tonight Show or that you see when you meet him 10 years ago.
And he's the same guy when you see him and we'd see him sometimes. He comes, we've seen him over at Jens a couple times or whatever.
And just always consistently like, oh, yeah, he's just down to earth and a good guy. Yeah.
And he spends so much of his free time not just advocating for people, but actually getting his hands in there and getting his hands dirty and doing it and it's it's bloody impressive isn't it he walks the walk and talks the talk yeah yeah also sean i like that you brought up i don't know if it's going to be a normal segment because jason and i have to talk about this sure with the question from tracy isn't that a great idea and be for my guests, like, right? So you guys don't have to worry about it, but I thought it'd be funny. Just so that I know going forward, is it T-R-A-C-E-Y or just a Y? Great question.
Is it an I dotted with a heart? With a heart is an I. I mean, I don't want to be disrespectful.
I just want to know what we're dealing with. Wisconsin gets a lot.
If we do this tour that we've talked about so many times if we ever do a tour we'd have to go to wisconsin absolutely i don't even know if anybody would want to see us on tour i'd like to hear from from madison to see if they would like to welcome us there and and what would be what would be the other cities let's let's if any does do people even know how to get a hold of us they vote on cities for a tour? If we get, let's say, the five most sort of requests, we'll go to those five cities, right? Yes, we'll come to your city. But you've got to let us know that you want us first because we're really insecure.
You need to go first and invite us instead of us assuming you want to see us. Tell us why you, not why you're worthy, but why we're worthy of coming to your city.
I love that. It's a great idea.
So guys, this has been an embarrassment of riches as far as ideas going today. Today.
Today's episode has a lot of, God, and if we do a tour, also, can we stay with you? Yeah. Let us know.
That's a deal breaker. Do you have like a guest house or is it a is it a blow up we'll need pictures so yeah we'll probably need pictures yeah and and then we'd also need to be able to send stuff that we like like i like half and a half just to make sure probably a car right use of a car use of a car for which is fine we could share um but we're coming to your town and we're coming to your house we're coming to your house let us know if you want us there and we'll the house that we send out everything and and we'll we'll be there also should we do a tour at all should actually for real should we do a tour i think we should i think it'd be fun i don't know if people would want us i'm available let's see i'd like to finally see you guys while we're talking to each other yeah right that would be That would be actually, you know, a lot of podcasts do tours.
Is that right? Yeah. Well.
Why not us? Let's put it in the pipe and smoke it. Okay, well, we'll see if people, maybe they don't want it.
People are like, we don't want to see you. They don't care.
All right. Well, so there's a bunch of different kinds of bicycles, right? There's the one with the three wheel.
What's the one with the two wheels called? Bicycle. So stupid.
Smart. Less.
Smart. Less.
Hey, friends. Jason here.
We're so excited the Smart List has officially joined the SiriusXM family. We can't wait to announce new surprise guests who we know that you'll love.
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