"Past Life Detective" from Snap Judgment

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Speaker 2 Spooksters, we've got a special because every once in a while, our sister shelf Snap Judgment comes across a story that veers into spook territory.

Speaker 2 Today is one of those stories we think you're going to dig it.

Speaker 2 Liz Mac spoke to Bob Snow.

Speaker 11 Let me tell you something. When I was commander of homicide, one of my biggest admonishments to all my detectives was do not get emotionally involved in your cases.

Speaker 11 If you get emotionally involved, you can't see things you need to see.

Speaker 11 But believe me, I was really emotionally involved in this case.

Speaker 12 Tell me about how this all started.

Speaker 11 We're at that party.

Speaker 2 I don't remember what holiday it was.

Speaker 2 I was talking to a psychologist, Kathy Graben.

Speaker 2 I'd read a book about past-life aggression therapy, and I was talking to her about it.

Speaker 2 Past-life aggression therapy is when a psychologist or psychiatrist hypnotizes you and supposedly takes you back to a life you live before your present one.

Speaker 2 I basically told her I thought it was just foolishness. I didn't realize that Kathy used past-life aggression, so I think I was being kind of obnoxious, putting it it down so bad.

Speaker 2 And she gave me the name of a friend of hers, Dr. Mary Ellen Griffith, who did past life regression, and told me, try it yourself and see if you really still think this is silly.
I said, I'd do it.

Speaker 2 Well, actually, the next day I woke up and I was a little more clear-headed and sober. And I thought, this is stupid.
I'm not doing this.

Speaker 2 But it seemed like from that day on, I ran to Kathy constantly. And when I'd see her, she'd always ask me, have you made the appointment yet?

Speaker 11 I got tired of making making excuses every time i saw kathy so finally i just decided well i'll do it but i also decided i was going to take my own tape recorder along record the session so i could bring it back to kathy and show her how silly it was

Speaker 11 being a police officer you want evidence you want proof before you make any claims

Speaker 11 and so i basically made the appointment to go see dr griffith to have a past-life regression

Speaker 11 Dr. Griffith's office is kind of a dark, dingy building.
I sat down on the couch, which was the most uncomfortable couch I think I'd ever sit on.

Speaker 11 Dr. Griffith, very nice lady, had a kind of a funny, kind of a musical, sing-song-y type voice.
So let's now close your eyes again.

Speaker 11 And she told me, close your eyes, and we started talking.

Speaker 11 She said, okay, we're ready to go. She said, can you imagine a balloon? Now, I was sitting here, and there's a window to my right, and I could see a...
big purple circle.

Speaker 11 Of course, I knew it was just a light through the window at the right to where I see a purple balloon. She said, Okay, imagine yourself getting in the balloon and taking it up and going,

Speaker 11 I'm trying to imagine this for.

Speaker 11 She said, Land the balloon, tell me what you see.

Speaker 11 Well, I didn't see nothing.

Speaker 11 I'm thinking to myself, this is her daydream, not mine. And nothing happened.

Speaker 11 And she kept saying, Okay, land the balloon, tell me where you're at, what you see.

Speaker 11 We went through this at least a dozen times,

Speaker 11 and she finally said, There's 12 steps. We're going down into the valley, and there's 12 steps.

Speaker 11 And she goes, 12, 12, 12,

Speaker 11 11, 11, 11. And each number is getting longer and slower and drawn out.

Speaker 11 But when she reached one, something really bizarre happened. Something really stunning.

Speaker 11 All of a sudden, I was in a valley.

Speaker 11 I don't think I, I mean, I just imagined I was in a valley or I daydreamed I was in a valley. I was in a valley.

Speaker 11 It was vividly clear. I could see the leaves on the trees.
I could see the veins in the leaves. I could feel a breeze in my face.

Speaker 11 So, Dr. Griffith asked me, says, Look down and describe yourself to me.

Speaker 11 I looked down. I could see a pair of dirty, hairy legs, and I could see I was wearing dirty matted fur.

Speaker 11 In my left hand, I was carrying a piece of tree limb.

Speaker 2 I thought, well, obviously, I'm a caveman.

Speaker 2 Between each episode, there used to be a light up high above you.

Speaker 2 She said, go into the light.

Speaker 2 It looked like the late 1800s coach. There were horse-drawn carriages and gas lights.

Speaker 2 And I could see it's an artist's studio.

Speaker 2 And the room is just filled with dozens of paintings.

Speaker 2 At that moment, I was painting a portrait. It was the portrait of a hunchback woman.
The hunch on her back was very, very prominent in the painting. And I was just putting the very last touches on it.

Speaker 2 And I told Dr. Griffith that I wanted to take one last look at one of my paintings.
She says, tell me what you regret about this life. I told her I regretted it.

Speaker 2 We didn't have children because my wife couldn't have children.

Speaker 11 But then, right after I said it,

Speaker 11 The taper cord I'd brought along clicked off.

Speaker 11 And I opened my eyes and that was it. The obsession was over.

Speaker 12 Is there anything particular that's going through your mind right then?

Speaker 11 Do you really have to think what does this all mean?

Speaker 2 Because I liked my life the way it was. My life was very grounded, very solid.
I didn't want this other stuff.

Speaker 11 If I proved it, then it means everything I believed my whole life, my whole belief in how the universe works, is wrong.

Speaker 11 I'd have to completely stop, take back everything I've ever believed in, throw it in the trash can, and bring in new beliefs.

Speaker 12 So, okay, what happens after this?

Speaker 12 Do you see Kathy?

Speaker 2 I called Kathy on the phone and told her, and I said, well, that I had seen some very interesting things. She was very gracious.
I think she realized we didn't push her anything.

Speaker 2 She said, thank you very much.

Speaker 2 But I think she could read between the lines.

Speaker 11 I was becoming obsessed about this. And let me tell you, as a police officer, I know when people have really deep obsessions, it seldom turns out well.

Speaker 11 It was probably a month or so afterwards before I finally decided, look, Bob, you got to do something about this.

Speaker 11 So my idea was I would go to Nampas Public Library.

Speaker 11 I would start thumbing through their art books. By the way, this was in 1992.
When you did research, you had to go down to the library and pull books off the shelf.

Speaker 11 And I figured it wouldn't take me long. Case closed, go back to your life the way it was.

Speaker 11 Come on, how many portraits of hunchback women could there be?

Speaker 11 It took me several months to go have not only a lunch hour, but weekends.

Speaker 12 And how many books did you go through?

Speaker 2 Hundreds, hundreds. Probably, oh, four or five hundred books at least.

Speaker 11 I went through every book that the public library had. I went through all the books each bookstore had.
I went through probably a half dozen bookstores right in Indianapolis.

Speaker 11 I went to number art galleries and talked to the art dealers to see if I could find the paintings.

Speaker 11 And so I wasn't ready to give up yet.

Speaker 11 So finally, as a last end resort, I finally went back to Dr. Griffith for a second session.
I thought, maybe if I could go back and have her access the artist's life, I could find more information.

Speaker 11 And she took me back to several past lives who were very vivid, but they were all so far back in history, you know, you couldn't decide whether anything was real or not real.

Speaker 11 But interestingly enough, every time she tried to take me to the artist's life, nothing had happened.

Speaker 11 And when it was over, I asked her why. And she says, You already know everything you need to know.

Speaker 2 All the evidence I had, I had followed it to its end, and it hadn't led anywhere. Basically, it was a cold case.

Speaker 11 So I hadn't told anyone. I thought it'll be an unsolved mystery.
I simply take to the grave with me.

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Speaker 2 I haven't pressed play yet.

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Speaker 7 Limited availability coverage may require extenders at additional charge.

Speaker 9 Fidelity active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same.

Speaker 9 So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge.

Speaker 9 And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time.

Speaker 9 Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com slash active ETFs.
Before investing in any exchange-traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses.

Speaker 9 Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully.

Speaker 9 While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs.

Speaker 9 ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses.
Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC, member NYSE, SIPC.

Speaker 11 It was getting towards my wife and I's anniversary, so we decided to go to New Orleans.

Speaker 11 Our last day in New Orleans, I suggested we go window shopping in the French Quarter.

Speaker 11 I noticed as we're walking down Royal Street, the galleries are getting smaller and the paintings much more obscure. So finally, we get onto a gallery at the very end of Royal Street,

Speaker 11 and there's a

Speaker 11 portrait on an easel in the corner. And I walk by and give it a glance, and then I stopped like I'd went into a glass wall.

Speaker 11 And I spun around, and it was a portrait of the hunchback woman.

Speaker 11 I could still see every brushstroke, and it was identical.

Speaker 2 My heart was beating. I could feel electricity running out in my arms and my stomach.

Speaker 11 Probably for four or five minutes, I just stood there staring at the portrait.

Speaker 2 One of the workers in the art gallery obviously saw me staring at painting and thought, hot dog, here's a sale.

Speaker 11 So he came over to me and said, I bet you're thinking how I said look over your fireplace, aren't you?

Speaker 11 So I asked him, I says, I don't recognize the artist. I says, who is the artist? So he said, hang on a second.

Speaker 11 So he walked over to his desk and come back and he had a little bio, probably, oh, maybe five or six sentences.

Speaker 11 And it said, J. Carol Beckwith, born 1852, died in 1917.

Speaker 11 So I started reading the biography, and I found five different things that I had seen in the regression.

Speaker 11 So I asked the dealer, I said, I told him, I said, I've seen this painting somewhere before. I said, has it been an exhibition somewhere?

Speaker 11 he said no he said this has been a private collection for years but let me be honest with you he said beckwith wasn't that good or that famous he says i actually let this go pretty cheap so so do you buy the painting no no they wanted like five thousand dollars for it my wife would have killed me

Speaker 11 at that moment building came downstairs and we left but i felt good Now I had a name, date of birth, date of death. I could go back and I could reopen this.
This case was no longer on the shelf.

Speaker 11 The next day we were back back in Annapolis, so I went down to the public library and I started researching on J. Carol Beckwith.

Speaker 11 He simply was not that famous or that good.

Speaker 11 That kind of bugged me. I thought, wait a minute, how could I know these things about him if he's that well unknown?

Speaker 2 I happened onto a book, and at the very bottom of the page goes a footnote that said this information came from the diaries of James Carroll Beckwith that are kept on file at the National Academy of Design in New York City.

Speaker 2 Wrote a letter to them, basically asking him if they were available to look at.

Speaker 2 While I was waiting for the diary to come, I went through and listened to the tape of my regression.

Speaker 11 And I made a list of various things I had said. Dates, places, causes of death, what have you that could be proved, disproved.
And I found I had 28 things.

Speaker 11 Now, what I was looking for at this point wasn't more proof about Beckwith. What I was looking for, I wanted to find one or two disproving things.

Speaker 11 For example, I had said we couldn't have children because my wife couldn't have children. Now, if he had kids, then what? This is not true memories.
This is not real.

Speaker 12 Why is it so important that you disproved that what happened in your regression is real? Why don't you just want to prove it?

Speaker 11 If I prove reincarnation is real,

Speaker 11 again, you have to throw away all your thoughts about how the universe works.

Speaker 11 And I'm certainly not going to do that unless I got some solid, solid evidence.

Speaker 11 So I thought maybe I'll have my wife. I'll talk to her and see what she thinks about the whole idea.
Maybe she can see something I didn't see.

Speaker 11 My wife thought I was nuts. She said, okay, hang on a second.
She says, I'll tell you what, I'll look into this case. I'll find information about Beckwith you didn't know was there.

Speaker 2 My wife was the child abuse detective and a very excellent detective at that.

Speaker 11 She started looking at the case and she started looking intently into it. And she didn't find a single thing.
Not a single thing I hadn't found. Nothing.

Speaker 11 She told me very plainly, look, Bob, okay, forget about it. Don't tell nobody but me.
Captains don't go talking about this. I thought that was probably

Speaker 11 solid advice. It really was.
If I was to prove this or not, this would cause all kind of turmoil in my life as a police officer. Tremendous turmoil.

Speaker 11 But I couldn't let it go. I spent a year.
I read every single page of Beckwa's diary. every single page.
There were over 17,000 pages of diary.

Speaker 11 And I found out that sure enough, his wife had had a very, very serious miscarriage, and after that, she couldn't have children.

Speaker 11 He talks about his mother being in church and having a stroke caused by a blood cot and dying. That he died in 1970, he didn't drink wine.
I saw myself die in a large city. He died in New York City.

Speaker 11 That is finding this proving fact. I kept finding one fact after another that agreed with what I had seen.

Speaker 11 Before I was done, I ended up proving all 28 28 facts. Every single one.

Speaker 11 Every single thing I had said during aggression was right on Beckwith's life.

Speaker 2 There is no doubt this case is solved.

Speaker 12 Do you believe in reincarnation now?

Speaker 11 Absolutely. I mean, how else do you explain it? How would I have Carol Bequist's memories in my mind?

Speaker 11 Police officers, you always look for the simplest explanation because 99% of the time it's the right one. The simplest explanation is that I carry Beckwith's memories in my mind.

Speaker 12 So, you know, how important is reputation when

Speaker 2 you are the police commander?

Speaker 2 You're the backbone of the police department. And so, your reputation as a police commander is very, very important.

Speaker 2 You want to have an image in the community of strength and stability and all.

Speaker 2 It could basically end your upward mobility in the police department if you started talking about things that weren't really accepted as what a police captain should believe in.

Speaker 2 It seemed like too important a story to keep quiet. So many things happened.
So much information came from so many unexpected sources.

Speaker 2 Believe me, my wife was really dead set against me doing this. She was positive it would damage my career.
And she was right, it turned out.

Speaker 12 What happens when you come out to the public about what happened to you?

Speaker 11 I kept various publicity about it. And each time I do it, it would really upset the command staff more.

Speaker 11 Eventually, what happened is, even though the last year I was in homicide, we had an 83% clearance rate and our murder rate was the lowest I've been in 20 years, they moved me out of there and put me on the citizen service desk for people come to get photographed or get fingerprinted.

Speaker 11 So they put me in a dead-end job hoping I would retire.

Speaker 11 My career basically flatlined after that.

Speaker 12 Do you wish that you had never stepped into that hypnotist's office?

Speaker 2 Yeah, I don't know. You know, I've often thought that, which way I'd have been happier, but apparently that wasn't the point of my life.

Speaker 12 So the case is solved, right? So what did you do to mark the occasion?

Speaker 2 Well, I was in New York. I found out that Beckwith scrapbooks were at the New York Historical Society, and I found out he was buried in Kinsey Cove Cemetery, which is up in Val Hall, New York.

Speaker 2 And I thought how cool it'd be to visit my own grave.

Speaker 2 It was in August, but it was a very nice, pleasant day. It wasn't real hot.
It's a huge, huge cemetery, and I walked all the way through it. It didn't even break out of sweat.

Speaker 2 But I didn't realize, I don't know why, but I don't think you're supposed to do this.

Speaker 2 As I got closer to the grave, my heart was just beating terrible fast.

Speaker 2 I was just running out of sweat, and I could feel, you know, you have electricity trendling at my arms and not my fingertips.

Speaker 2 I started having a tremendous panic attack.

Speaker 2 I found some workers who were trimming some hedges close by, so I had them take a picture of me standing to grave just to show her by I wasn't scared. I was terrified.

Speaker 2 After that, I left.

Speaker 2 I can't worry about James Carroll Beckwith.

Speaker 2 You really can't live as the other people.

Speaker 2 I mean, you've already done that.

Speaker 2 You have to deal with the person you are in the present.

Speaker 2 I realized I had to simply go on with my life as Bob Snow.

Speaker 2 I went, got on a train, flew back to Annapolis, and went on with my life.

Speaker 2 Big thanks to Bob Snow for sharing this story. Now check out our website, snapjudgment.org, for a link to Bob Snow's work.

Speaker 2 He's written about this experience and a whole bunch of true crime stuff that you do not want to miss. The original score for that story was by Renzo Gorio.
It was produced by Liz Mack.

Speaker 2 Now then, how about you?

Speaker 2 Have you ever stepped from one reality into another?

Speaker 2 Have you ever gotten a heads up about what's going to happen next? Have you ever seen someone walking around? who under no circumstance was supposed to be on this side of the grave? If so,

Speaker 2 send me your story. Spook at snapjudgment.org, and check out our sister podcast, Snapjudgment, for more tales about things that change everything.

Speaker 2 And wherever you go, whatever you do, always remember, never,

Speaker 2 ever turn out the lights.

Speaker 1 Support for Spooked comes from Oakland San Francisco Bay Airport. OAK offers non-stop flights to your favorite destinations across the U.S.

Speaker 1 and Mexico with new non-stop flights to Los Cabos and Zacatecas. OAK makes travel easy with Park OAK's convenient parking options.

Speaker 1 Reserve a spot in the daily lot or economy lot and save on your next trip. Learn more at iflyoak.com, the best way to San Francisco Bay.

Speaker 13 This is a vacation with Chase Sapphire Reserve, the butler, the spa.

Speaker 15 This is the edit, a collection of hand-picked luxury hotels and a $500 edit credit. Chase Sapphire Reserve, the most rewarding card.

Speaker 16 Learn more at chase.com/slash Sapphire Reserve. Cards issued by J.P.
Morgan Chase Bank and a member FDIC, subject to credit approval.

Speaker 2 Oh, watch your step. Wow, your attic is so dark.
Dark.

Speaker 2 I know, right?

Speaker 3 It's the perfect place to stream horror movies.

Speaker 2 Play me.

Speaker 4 What movie is that?

Speaker 2 I haven't pressed play yet.

Speaker 4 AT ⁇ T fiber with all-fi covers your whole house.

Speaker 5 Even your really, really creepy attic turned home theater.

Speaker 6 Jimmy, what have I told you about scaring your guests?

Speaker 4 Get AT ⁇ T fiber with Al-Fi and live like a gagillionaire.

Speaker 7 Limited availability coverage may require extenders at additional charge.

Speaker 9 Fidelity active ETFs have the flexibility to shift and transform as markets do the same.

Speaker 9 So instead of just riding an index, they can seek to outperform it by adapting to market conditions and pursuing new opportunities as they emerge.

Speaker 9 And while you get the potential outperformance of an actively managed fund, you can still buy and sell it on your terms, just like any other ETF. Markets can change in real time.

Speaker 9 Make sure your ETF can too. Learn more at fidelity.com/slash active ETFs.
Before investing in any exchange-traded fund, you should consider its investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses.

Speaker 9 Contact Fidelity for a prospectus, an offering circular, or if available, a summary prospectus containing this information. Read it carefully.

Speaker 9 While active ETFs offer the potential to outperform an index, these products may more significantly trail an index as compared with passive ETFs.

Speaker 9 ETFs are subject to market fluctuation and the risks of their underlying investments. ETFs are subject to management fees and other expenses.
Fidelity Brokerage Services LLC member NYSE SIPC.

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It hydrates, restores, and protects dry eyes for up to 12 hours. Sustain Pro, triple action dry eye relief.