Episode 292

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It's time to head back to school and forward to your future with Carrington College.

For over 55 years, we've helped train the next generation of healthcare professionals.

Apply now to get hands-on training from teachers with real-world experience.

And as few as nine months, you could start making a difference in healthcare.

Classes start soon in Pleasant Hill, San Leandro, and San Jose.

Visit Carrington.edu to see what's next for you.

Visit Carrington.edu slash SCI for information on program outcomes.

Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences.

Listener discretion is advised.

You know, I said who laughs, laughs, laughs best.

Who was that weird-sounding woman at the intro?

You're about to find out.

This is season 12, episode 292 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real and literally all around you.

It's fucking terrifying.

It's enough to make you want to crawl in a hole and just listen to podcasts.

Just a reminder that we don't do this for free.

If you'd like the show and want to support it, head on over to swordandscale.com, download the app on your Android or Apple device, and become a plus supporter or a SAS hole, as we affectionately like to call our fans because we love people so much.

It's time to head back to school and forward to your future with Carrington College.

For over 55 years, we've helped train the next generation of healthcare professionals.

Apply now to get hands-on training from teachers with real-world experience.

And as few as nine months, you could start making a difference in healthcare.

Classes start soon in Pleasant Hill, San Leandro, and San Jose.

Visit Carrington.edu to see what's next for you.

Visit carrington.edu/slash SCI for information on program outcomes.

In a relationship, it's easy to mix up being needed with being wanted, especially when you're in love.

The dependency can feel like a sign of closeness.

But as time goes on, needing someone can become more important than wanting them.

And that's when problems begin.

The distinction between being needed and being wanted might not seem like a big deal at first, but it can make all the difference in whether a relationship lasts or it falls apart.

When someone depends on the other for their happiness, their self-worth, and even their identity, it's no longer about love.

It's about something else entirely.

Control.

The fear of losing that person isn't because of love, it's because their whole sense of self is tied to them.

It's not about wanting a life with them anymore.

It's about being scared of a life without them.

When someone feels like they have nothing to lose, they'll do anything to hang on and keep their life from falling apart, even if it means crossing lines they never would have thought to cross.

This kind of unhealthy reliance doesn't just hurt feelings, it ruins lives.

And the aftermath,

it often affects the people who least deserve it.

Outside the police department in Plantation, Florida, the parking lot is still dotted with the harsh orange glow of street lamps.

It's a little after 4 a.m.

on June 28th, 2018.

The sun won't be up for at least another couple of hours.

Outside, it's a balmy 78 degrees with 93% humidity.

Oh boy, do I not miss that.

It's like a sauna every day.

The humidity makes it feel even hotter.

The air is thick and moist.

So much so that it feels difficult walking through it.

Inside, though, it's almost chilly.

The fluorescent bulbs cast a uniform light, making the small room feel more impersonal.

A little boy sits quietly with curious eyes.

He can sense there's something that the adults aren't telling them.

Do you ever get in trouble at home?

Sometimes.

What happens?

What happens when you get in trouble?

I don't usually remember since it was a long time ago.

I usually do that when I was six or below.

Oh, okay.

So you're a pretty good kid.

Adrian was seven years old.

The detectives are trying to gauge his understanding of right and wrong and whether he knows how to lie.

He just witnessed...

Something horrible, which is impossible for his undeveloped mind to understand.

Can you tell Mr.

Mike who you live with again?

I don't I didn't write it down.

Mom, her name's Nastia.

I usually call her Nas Nasinka since that's how I call her in Russian.

And who else do you live with?

And

dad, his name's Mark.

Adrian lived with his mother, Anastasia, and his father, Mark.

They all lived in his grandmother's townhome.

It was nice and spacious, about 1,100 square feet, with two bedrooms and two bathrooms.

There was plenty of room for Grandma Barb and her three cats, but it got a little crowded when her son Mark and his family found themselves down on their luck and moved in.

We share the same room inside Grandma.

She sleeps with the cats.

Grandma Barb gave up the biggest bedroom so the family of three could have a little more space.

It wasn't ideal, but they were having a bit of a rough patch after being recently evicted.

Of course, little Adrian didn't understand any of this.

It was summer and he was living a kid's dream, staying up late and watching TV.

He explains that the night before, he had watched cartoons before bed.

He was mesmerized by the colors and the sounds coming from the TV.

Oblivious to the brooding turmoil in his home.

When you go to sleep, do you watch TV to go to sleep?

Oh.

Yeah.

Yeah?

Do you remember what you were watching last night when you were going to sleep?

Um,

oh yeah.

What were you watching?

Zadal House?

The Loud House?

Yeah.

That's a cool show I like.

And also,

when I finished the Loud House, I watched SpongeBob

Square Pierce a movie.

Oh, okay.

Who put that movie on for you?

Oh,

it just came up randomly when the talent show was over.

Okay, so when the loud house was over, the Spongebob movie came on.

Yeah.

All by itself?

Yeah.

Adrian didn't know it yet, but that would be the last carefree evening in front of the TV that he would experience in a long time.

Do you get

But recently, Anastasia had started sleeping in the little kid bed.

That night, after watching the SpongeBob movie, Adrian took a melatonin gummy and got ready for bed.

He fell asleep in the big bed next to his dad, Mark.

Anastasia was already sleeping in the little bed next to the door.

Was mommy and daddy in the bed with you when you were sleeping?

No, just dad was in the bed with me.

Dad was in the bed?

Where was Mommy?

Oh, sleep.

Sleeping in on the little bed.

Do you remember where you when you woke up today?

Oh

I think it was I think it was for something.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How do you know it was for something?

No, I just think.

Oh you just thought that you didn't see a clock or anything?

No.

Did something wake you up?

Or did you wake up by yourself?

When dad was trying to wake mom up, dad waked me up.

How did that wake you up?

Oh, because

um he was talking

at 4 a.m.

Adrian woke up because he heard talking in the room.

Mark was trying to wake up Anastasia.

Adrian thought this was so she could get ready for work.

He knew she had just gotten a job.

Was your mom saying anything?

Oh, she didn't.

So she's sleeping

so hard.

I'm not sure she was sleeping.

How do you say that?

Oh, because when dad was trying to wake her up, she didn't wake up.

That's why she had to drag her to the couch.

And

that's how I saw the blood.

Okay.

Even a seven-year-old knows what blood is, and that blood outside your body is bad.

But Adrian didn't really understand what was happening, so he tried to make sense of it.

Adrian thought his dad was just trying to wake up his mom for work, but she wasn't waking up.

When Mark dragged her to the couch, Adrian didn't understand

the danger.

If any adult had woken up to this scene, they would immediately be filled with fear.

But in Adrian's innocence, he just watched with wonder.

Well,

I don't know why, but at least I know when my mom got a big

boobo on her head.

Then, when dad can't wake her

dad couldn't wake her up, since she is snoring, Also, she had never snored before.

And

dad had

dad's gonna was gonna wake her up into

the couch because she got

she also got the dead dirty with her um blood on her head.

That's why she couldn't do it, so

she was sleeping so hard.

So, dad dragged her on the floor

and I saw blood.

Oh.

And you said mommy was snoring?

Oh, yeah, she had never done that.

That's how

dad figured out something was wrong with her.

Then she saw that was the blood in her hair.

Oh, and then you heard your mommy snoring?

She never

did snoring before.

Okay.

Now I think she's going to the hospital.

Okay.

I think.

This poor kid had no frame of reference for what he witnessed.

The plots from cartoons don't really prepare a kid for experiencing death.

And that's exactly what he saw.

His mother wasn't snoring.

That was her body losing the ability to clear the mucus from her throat.

He heard his mother's...

death rattle.

Seconds after his father dragged his mother from the room, Grandma Barb came in and grabbed him.

She took him to her bathroom and shut the door.

She left him for a moment to grab her phone beside her bed.

When she returned, she called 911.

Adrian had to be confused and likely afraid, but he knew 911 was the number to call for help.

I stayed in the bathroom with Grandma since she didn't want me to step step in blood,

she called 911 and she also called

the ambulance.

She also called the ambulance so mom could

go

in the hospital.

And that's why dad did it early because

mom has to go do her hospital work

and

this this morning.

Adrian explained everything he saw and heard.

His mother snoring, his father dragging her, and the blood on the bed and the floor.

His grandmother took him to the bathroom so he wouldn't step in the blood.

It's difficult to listen to, knowing he didn't fully understand the real reason he was in the bathroom.

He tried to make sense of it with a child's rationale.

His mother, Anastasia, was a doctor.

He knew she had just started a job.

The only reason they were up so early had to be for his mom's work.

In Adrian's young mind, mom had a boo-boo, but grandma called an ambulance.

So, the ambulance would take her to the hospital and fix her up just in time for her to start her shift.

The poor kid didn't get it.

He was an innocent in the purest sense of the word.

She does surgery to people in the hospital.

Oh, okay.

Was anybody else there when you came out of the bathroom?

Oh, yeah.

Some polices.

Yeah?

Yeah.

Okay.

Then what did you remember seeing after you came out of the bathroom with the police?

I saw dad went to jail for some reason.

I don't know why.

Oh, okay.

Adrian didn't know that his mother was dead.

He didn't understand his father was arrested for her murder.

Maybe it's better that he didn't get it.

He was too young to process the full nature of what happened, which is a blessing in his case.

But he's not likely to forget his mom and dad anytime soon.

And the memory of them, I imagine, will haunt him for years to come.

He'll never see his mother again, or fall asleep next to his father.

They won't be there to wake him up and take him to school.

The events of that night, the trauma he experienced, will eventually shape his understanding of death.

It'll shape him as a person,

his whole personality.

The lasting impact, which only the adults involved understood,

will be the loss of his innocence.

It's time to head back to school and forward to your future with Carrington College.

For over 55 years, we've helped train the next generation of healthcare professionals.

Apply now to get hands-on training from teachers with real-world experience.

In as few as nine months, you could start making a difference in healthcare.

Classes start soon in Pleasant Hill, San Leandro, and San Jose.

Visit Carrington.edu to see what's next for you.

Visit carrington.edu/slash SCI for information on program outcomes.

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On the morning of June 28th, 2018, seven-year-old Adrian woke up to to the sound of his father talking.

Even at such a young age, he knew something was wrong.

He was confused by his mother's snoring and the boo-boo on her head.

He rationalized the events in his mind without being able to draw the connections between them.

His mother was hurt.

His father was arrested.

But he didn't understand why.

14 years earlier in 2004, Anastasia first traveled to the U.S.

from her native country, Bolaris.

She used the trip to practice her English, and by 2005, she moved to Florida permanently.

What better place to pursue her dreams than the land of opportunity?

She wasn't alone, though.

She had a close friend with her who also moved from Belarus.

Did you guys go to college together?

Not the same college.

I went to FIU.

Anastasia went to FAU.

Okay.

and it was a little bit later than I did.

Then I pursued a legal career.

I went to NSU Law School and she went to NSU as well.

Well actually that was the same school but a different college with university.

A different college.

Right.

Okay.

This is Hannah Jamorlik, Anastasia's best friend.

Anastasia sort of followed her to the U.S.

They were so close that after Anastasia gave birth to Adrian, she asked Hannah to be his godmother.

Of course, she said yes.

And since 2005, she stayed, and we've, I mean, we lived together for some time, but then she moved out, but we still stayed close and we still stayed friends.

The two were both determined women with ambition and goals.

Anastasia quickly enrolled in college and started pursuing a degree.

By the time she neared the end of her bachelor's degree, she had met a man, Mark Berkowitz.

she worked at trump hotel and he worked there as well and um that's how they met each other and this that's how they started dating okay we hang out a lot then they got married um she got pregnant and i i was their friend i mean i wasn't mark's friend but i was anastasia's friend and because and i communicated with mark a lot

A romance sparked between Mark and Anastasia, but she didn't let that distract her from her goals.

Yeah,

she was always at the computer.

I mean, she enjoyed it.

It's not like she had to do it.

And she was a bright student when, like, many students failed the exams.

She passed them and with good grades.

And she was very dedicated.

She felt like this is what she wanted to do.

She was enjoying it.

Even though she wasn't required to do some reading, she was just going through the books or reading some stories, materials, because this is what she liked.

Anastasia was an achiever.

She set her sight on something and didn't stop until she got it.

She did more schoolwork than was required because she actually enjoyed it.

This was a stark comparison to her husband, Mark.

Here's Grandma Barb describing Mark as a child.

No, he

hated school.

He was

dropped out at ninth grade.

You know, he was very, he was always a difficult kid and always getting in trouble.

And he was a very tough kid.

And thank God,

Brian, my younger son, God bless him, he learned from him like what not to do.

That's why he turned out to be such a good son.

Between Grandma Barb's two sons, Mark was the black sheep.

He couldn't seem to stay out of trouble.

He dropped out of school his freshman year and started working a series of jobs in hospitality.

He also struggled with his mental health.

Well, he's bipolar.

Has he been diagnosed with that?

Psychiatrist, yeah, I have a list of all his medications.

Yeah.

Mark suffered from bipolar disorder.

He would swing between manic episodes and bouts of depression.

His uncontrollable swings in emotion and his decisions during these swings made him prone to getting into trouble.

It wasn't long before the troubled teenager became a convict.

Oh, yeah, he has a record.

Even when he's 13,

obviously in trouble, drugs, problems.

He drove me through hell, right through my cars.

Anastasia didn't care about Mark's troubled past.

It didn't matter to her.

His past was just that, the past.

She was young, in her 20s, by the time she met Mark.

He was in his early 30s and had a good job at a luxury hotel.

Mark had become wiser with age.

He seemed to have calmed his rebellious youth a bit.

But it didn't bother her because she was set

as far as her career.

It was

on the main goal and, you know, nothing was not going to stand in the way.

She's very intelligent.

She knows she could do it.

She's one of the top 40 in her graduating class.

What school did she go to?

No.

No.

You know, nothing was going to get in the way.

She's going to achieve her goal and make all her dreams come true.

The romance bloomed, and they both had a sharp eye on their future together.

Mark was going to work and support Anastasia as she earned her degree.

Anastasia told me

when they got married at the courthouse here in Fort Lotterdale that she wanted to go to school to become a doctor and she wasn't going to work.

And I guess Mark was fine with that.

He worked at the Fountain Blue.

Mark

was in love with her.

I mean, he was supporting her.

Once Anastasia became a doctor, Mark could chase his dreams.

Dreams a high school dropout with a record could never seem to afford with a string of dead-end jobs.

Once she graduates, you know, he wanted to open a restaurant.

He had all these big dreams, you know, like...

His dream also was to be like a DJ and he liked all this, you know, he loves music.

So their future was set.

They had a plan.

And Mark and Anastasia could see the path before them.

They just had to walk it.

But turmoil was just around the corner.

She was going to be a doctor.

She was going to for several years.

She was studying and everything.

And there were people and he was a loser.

I mean, he couldn't keep any job that he could get.

Maybe because of his drug abuse, he was depressed and he lost every job as quickly as he

got this job.

Mark found himself trapped in a cycle of self-loathing.

He'd fuck up at work for one reason or another, get fired, and fall into a deep depression.

And these bouts of depression would last a while.

Then, like a swing of a pendulum, Mark would rebound, get another job, and All was right with the world again.

At least in his eyes.

The cycle continued until one day, Mark spun out of control.

Adrian was about one year old and they were living in Miami Gardens.

This incident would change everything.

And her parents were here.

They were visiting Anastasia and they were visiting Damai to see the child.

I think he was high.

He was under something.

He didn't look like he was a typical Mark when he's sober.

And he started yelling at the parents.

Anastasia's mom said something, but he misinterpreted, because he doesn't speak English, and she said something in Russian, but he misinterpreted it and thought that was something in English.

And

right, and it was something like bad about him.

So

he started yelling at her parents, and Anastasia trying to defend the parents, but

he got angry with her and

he attacked her.

He pushed her on the bed and tried to strangle her.

Anastasia was trying to diffuse the misunderstanding between her her husband and parents.

But Mark lost it, grabbed Anastasia, and threw her on the bed.

He straddled her body and wrapped both hands around her throat.

Her stepfather had to pull him off.

Anastasia and her parents grabbed one-year-old Adrian, hid with the neighbors, and called the police.

Anastasia was frightened.

Mark had never acted so violently before.

She didn't know what to think or what to do.

Of course, the police didn't either.

So after this incident, the parents left.

The husband spoke to her.

And

I mean, she did take him back.

I mean, she was in a very vulnerable state.

She was without work.

She was a student.

She had a child.

I mean, so, I don't know.

She probably believed that he can change.

But after some some period of time, it looked like he sought or she convinced him to stop.

Anastasia knew she couldn't raise Adrian and go to school on her own.

So she convinced herself that this was a one-time thing and Mark could change.

After Anastasia took him back, Mark seemed to turn his life around.

He really put in the effort to be a better man for his family.

He stopped his illicit drug use, got another job, and actually seemed happy.

Mark was

doing okay, he's just controlling his medication, and he was working at the Renaissance.

He was exercising,

he was mentally feeling good about himself.

And things were okay for a while.

All the while, Anastasia kept working towards her degree.

By the time Adrian turned six, they lived in an apartment across the street from Grandma Barb.

Then something happened.

Something that would be the catalyst for change in their relationship.

The downfall started after they got evicted at Los Prados.

I found out after when they moved in with me that the reason they were evicted

at Los Prados apartments in December is because she took out some money from this, Mark told me that she took out some money from the student loan and gambled it.

So they didn't have enough money for rent.

Anastasia liked to gamble.

It was the only thing she did for fun.

She spent the rest of her time studying and being a mom.

So every once in a while, she would blow off some steam at the casino.

It's just that she rarely won.

So things started going downhill.

Of course, I lived across the street.

He was really upset

that she did that.

He was really upset having to move in with me.

And

he blamed her.

Mark resented Anastasia for what she did.

He turned his life around for her.

Now he was 42 years old and he relied on his mother for a place to live.

Makes you feel like a real loser when you get divorced and have to move back in with mom as an adult male.

It can really do a number on your self-confidence if you're not careful.

Mark felt that he should have more to show for his life, being where he was in life.

He felt like he was right back where he had started.

Anastasia's life was moving forward with lightning speed, while his life was standing still, and it was all her fault.

But he tried his best to move past it.

In March 2018, Anastasia became a naturalized citizen, a milestone she had been waiting on for years.

She was now a full-fledged citizen of of the United States and only a month away from becoming a doctor.

Anastasia could not have been happier.

She was so close to the goal she'd worked so hard to achieve, and she wanted to celebrate.

He was working at Vivice, okay, and he got offered a management job there.

And I said, that's great, Mark.

I mean, they must really like you and have confidence in management.

So that month was okay.

And then she was supposed to have her graduation party at Vivice, and he was going to get

a discount.

Well, the discount fell through.

If you ask Grandma Barb, she'll say Mark quit.

But the truth is, he was fired.

Mark was caught skimming.

Skimming is a childish scam of patting the check so the customer pays more, essentially giving the scammer a larger tip.

In Mark's case, he was pocketing vouchers for espresso.

He would apply the coupon to the customer's bill after they paid.

He'd make like 10 bucks each time.

He got caught when upper management noticed the vouchers being used when they knew that the espresso machine was broken.

Oops.

Mark was busted, and it ruined Anastasia's graduation party plans.

All for,

again, $10 at a time.

The tension between the two was higher than ever.

I mean, what a fucking loser.

So anyway, so that was a disappointment.

You know,

that was a big argument.

She was very upset with him, with that fact, that that didn't work out.

So now he hasn't been working since.

So the friction, I mean, got worse then because she didn't want to talk to him.

She was upset.

He wasn't going to talk to her.

Anastasia was pissed.

She didn't ask Mark for much, but when she did, she was routinely disappointed.

Mounting tensions at home couldn't have come at a worse time.

Anastasia was days away from graduation and tried to remain focused.

Mark, too, tried to play the role of dutiful husband, but the rift between them was already too great.

As her graduation day approached, she couldn't have been more excited.

But when the day came, she didn't seem to want to share it with Mark or Grandma Barb.

I saw that the husband was very angry with her because she didn't want to hold his hand.

She was

like, she didn't want him to be there, but he wanted to be there.

He felt like he's being rejected.

He wanted her attention, and he was giving her like a very hard time.

He was insulting her.

Basically, I mean, he brought her to tears, and that was her special day.

It was Anastasia's special day.

She spent the better part of a decade working towards that day.

But Mark couldn't help but want to share in his wife's success.

After all, they were partners.

He'd helped her get to where she was.

Her success was their success.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it.

In fact, it was his success.

It was it was Mark.

Mark, Mark had done it all.

I mean, he'd, you know kept the fork going anastasia couldn't have done anything if it hadn't been for mark right

needless to say anastasia didn't see it that way to anastasia her success was despite mark he would want to come up and kiss her hug her and she would shove him away her girlfriends were there and she completely ignored mark She said she didn't like anybody to touch her and she was disappointed in him.

and you know mark mark felt rejected i mean i could see that but she didn't want him

that day surrounded by all their graduating doctors anastasia was embarrassed by her unaccomplished husband she had a vision for the rest of her life that didn't include mark mark was confused and angry this wasn't part of their plan Anastasia's graduation was supposed to be the start of the rest of their lives together.

But it wasn't shaping up that way.

Anastasia shunned Mark in front of her friends and his mother.

Of course, Mark pitched a fit.

He disappeared with the car, leaving Anastasia crying.

When he returned an hour later, he gave Anastasia the keys and told her he was walking home.

His manipulative attempt at guilting her worked.

She and her friends picked him up and took him with them to celebrate.

Because we were going to Harok, I mean, to have like some lunch and maybe like celebrate.

She got afraid and she said that if we're not going to pick him up and take with us,

I don't know what he's going to do to me at the house when I'm going to be back.

But Mark couldn't let go of Anastasia's disrespect towards him.

And he was very aggressive.

He was screaming at her, yelling at her.

He was like very agitated and he was very angry.

I mean, even I was scared of him.

The argument continued and grew until until Mark finally

saw only one path forward.

He was the one who started the conversation.

Maybe we should get divorced.

He started.

He started.

He started.

And she was happy that he was the one who started the conversation.

But again, from what I heard from the parents, he took his words back several days later.

He changed his mind.

But she didn't want to change.

I mean, she was determined to get divorced.

Anastasia was secretly thrilled Mark brought up divorce first, and she intended to file, even though he changed his mind.

There was just one little issue: Adrian.

Her main concern was that she had a child.

She was supposed to start working at the hospital.

The schedule at the hospital is very specific.

You have to be there early, and I mean, you finish very late.

So, she was very concerned who is going to be taking the kid to school and pick the kid back

from school.

So, she was trying to maintain the friendly relationship with the mother-in-law and maybe with the husband so that day in the future, even though she's going to like divorce him and move out, they still can try and help her in some way, maybe.

Right.

Anastasia was about to embark on a successful career as a doctor.

She wanted to ditch the dead weight of an unaccomplished husband, but she needed his help for the sake of their son.

The long hours that the job demanded conflicted with Adrian's school schedule.

So Anastasia tried to maintain a good relationship with Mark and his mom.

It just wasn't easy.

After graduation,

she was like,

okay, I don't need you anymore.

Attitude.

My friends I talked to, they said,

she's going to dump him after she

doesn't need him anymore.

I mean,

that was the way his thinking was.

But I could tell that they were going further and further apart.

Mark knew that Anastasia was preparing to move out.

She told him as much.

But he refused to accept it.

Instead, he would pick fights, usually about money, and often very petty.

Living in a place he didn't want to be with a wife who clearly didn't love him was wearing on him.

And his mental state was starting to deteriorate.

They would fight a lot.

And because, you know, she was a real screamer.

she could be a drama queen and she would provoke him and then they you know get in like a war zone they were toxic for each other and mark said he was feeling like he was being used

mark felt like he was being used because after nine years of marriage he was about to have jack

to show for it

He was a broke 42-year-old bipolar unemployed man living with his elderly mother.

He had no career prospects, and his wife was about to divorce him.

So, definitely the kind of guy that they give out popularity trophies to.

After everything he did for her, this is the thanks that he got.

He felt like he was owed something, you know?

Because, like, in the recent months, there was a police call to her house many times, and she told me a lot about all the situations.

At one, during one of the situations, she was hiding in the closet because he was pursuing her in the house.

There was one point in time, the recent time, when Astasia had to stand on her knees and beg him not to touch her because, I mean, he was raising her arm.

And I was so embarrassed, but they got in such a fight.

I mean, she would provoke him because you can tell they hated each other and they knew they were getting a divorce.

I can tell they both wanted out.

Three times the police had to respond to that home.

One time, Mark was put on psychiatric hold.

The most recent time, Mark was arrested on an unrelated outstanding warrant.

Anastasia couldn't have been more thrilled.

Anastasia was relieved

because

yeah, and she thought, she asked her friend who's a lawyer,

it said, because Mark has a bad track record, and that he was going to be until December 13th.

And she was like relieved.

Well, she said, well, maybe six months in jail will give him,

he'll get straightened out and get his head together.

So she was relieved.

And I was like, oh, God, no, we're fighting.

Anna had read the release date on the sheriff's office website, but it was inaccurate.

The outstanding warrant was for unpaid child support.

Oh, yeah, Mark had another son many years earlier.

By this time, the kid was a full-grown 18-year-old man.

Anyway, all Mark had to do was sign a promissory note saying he would pay back the child support, and he was released.

Anyway, comes home, of course, he's even more

furious because,

you know, he's thinking, you know, she's ruined my life.

I have my track loaded, I'll never get another job.

You know, he was really, really depressed.

He didn't care about anything.

With Mark's return, Anastasia's fear grew.

His erratic behavior and outbursts of anger were getting more frequent and more unpredictable.

She was frankly afraid of him.

A couple of days ago, I said, one of my little knives, and she says, I have them hidden under the bed.

Would she just say, I'm afraid of him, or because she's afraid of him?

Yeah, she's afraid of him because

you can tell that he hated her.

And just when Anastasia thought it couldn't get any worse, Mark found text messages between her and another man.

So you're saying Mark saw the text messages?

Yeah, he saw some of the text messages, but they were very neutral.

There was nothing romantic or nothing.

One of the text messages said that my husband was arrested again.

Online, it says that the release date is December.

Something like that.

Well, it's good because I'm going to have enough time to move out and he's not going to

prevent me from doing it.

Well, I don't think he thought that there was an affair, but the fact that maybe she was communicating with another man and they were talking about their relationship,

her living, I mean, he kind of knew that she was living.

In fact, it's gonna happen.

The text messages, of course, infuriated Mark.

There was no way he could be in denial now.

The proof of Anastasia's betrayal was in writing, right before his eyes.

He accused her of having an affair.

the ultimate betrayal.

She tried to explain it was just a work colleague, but Mark wasn't buying it.

Needless to say, Mark's anger sent Anastasia's fear and anxiety through the roof.

So, yeah, she would normally lock herself in the room, especially like during the night,

the last couple of weeks, or maybe a week, that he asked her not to lose the door.

Say he, Mark, Mark.

Mark asked him not to lock the door.

That he convinced her that he would sleep on the kid's bed.

He was like,

he was pressing.

He was trying to convince her that he's not going to give any trouble to her.

And I don't know why, but she unlocked the door.

Despite her fear, Anastasia unlocked the door and allowed Mark to sleep in the room.

She was just tired of arguing and gave in.

She would be gone soon, anyway, after her first paycheck.

She would have a place of her own.

Besides, she never thought he was capable of, well,

anything, really.

But certainly not hurting her while she slept next to their son.

She always thought that he's a coward.

He's not capable of like doing it in cold blood.

She never thought that

she would, I mean, he would do it when she's asleep or like the child is

next to her.

I mean, she was like, she was mistaken.

I mean,

she

was mistaken.

You know how they say hindsight is 2020?

Well, after Anastasia's untimely death, the events of the days preceding took on a whole new ominous overtone.

The night where Mark was pacing in the room and staring at her while she was sleeping.

And she said, that was kind of freaky.

And she just turned over.

She woke up in the middle of the night and she saw him standing by her bed looking at her.

And she asked him, why are you here looking at me?

And he said that

I can fall asleep.

You know, because he hasn't been sleeping.

And

she said, that's kind of strange.

He's been staring there watching me sleep.

And now I think

he must have been planning it.

Two nights earlier, Mark was pacing and watching Anastasia sleep.

At the time, it was weird, but.

Now it's downright scary.

The next night, Grandma Barb also noticed some strange behavior from Mark.

So I did notice something strange, and she mentioned that, too.

He's making me nervous and pacing, walking back and forth like something's going through his mind.

And I was like...

While Adrian was sitting on the couch watching SpongeBob, Mark was in the background, pacing, contemplating the murder of his wife.

When the movie was over, Adrian took his sleep gummy and crawled into bed with his father.

Grandma Barb went to sleep around midnight.

Mark Herder shut the bedroom door.

He lay there in the room with his family, but he didn't sleep.

His mind was racing through every little wrong Anastasia had ever committed against him.

He played out his future without her.

No house, no wife, no kid, no family, no life.

With everything gone, he had nothing to lose.

His mind was unraveling.

And then all of a sudden, Mark opens the door and he says, I killed Anastasia.

Like,

look what I did.

And I was like,

oh my God.

And he says, come here, look.

Look, I killed her.

And he grabbed her arm and said, see?

Like that.

You picked her arm up and fell to the floor.

Well, no, no, no.

She was already on the floor.

Right.

But But, I mean, he just wanted to kind of turn her head this way to see that she was dead.

At 4 a.m., Mark burst into his mother's room and told her what he'd done.

He'd killed Anastasia.

By this time, Adrian was awake, probably rubbing the sleep from his eyes as he witnessed his father dragging his mother's limp body out of bed and down the hall.

He says, I'm going to call the police.

I'm going to jail.

I mean, Mark said that.

Yeah.

To you.

Yeah, it was like he had a plant.

And he said, like, he has no life.

His problems are over.

Yeah, his problems are over.

Right.

And he was like, I'm proud of it.

Look what I did.

After Mark told his mother what he did, he dragged Anastasia further down the hall and into the living room.

Barb didn't hesitate for a moment.

Adrian is in the room, and

the first thing I thought about was Adrian.

And

I went in the room and I got angry.

I said, Adrian, let's just go in the bathroom.

And Adrian likes this, I saw blood and oh God, Adrian.

Grandma Barb took Adrian to the bathroom and locked the door.

She wasn't sure what he'd already seen, but she didn't want him to see anything else.

She was also afraid of Mark.

She clearly didn't know what he was capable of.

Oh, yes, yes, please.

Mark just

kills his wife.

Please, please, come on.

Yes, yes, please.

I don't know with a nine.

Where's the knife right now?

Hi, yes.

If you missed it, in the background, you can hear Mark asking for the phone.

That cordial and calm voice at the end saying, hi, yes.

That was Mark.

His voice sounds so much like his mother's that the operator didn't even realize he was on the call.

I don't want my son to see I killed my wife.

Okay.

Where is he right now?

I put her on the floor for the blanket over.

My son is in the bathroom with my mother.

Do you know how long ago this happened?

I just killed her probably about like 10 minutes ago.

So, does he still have the knife right now?

No, I hit her with a hammer.

Yes, I killed her.

Mark was calm and matter-of-fact.

His demeanor wasn't what you'd expect from a man who just murdered his wife.

He almost sounded relieved.

And you don't have the knife on you anymore?

Hammer.

I did not have a knife.

I killed her with a hammer.

Oh, okay.

Sorry.

Okay.

And she's not

right.

No, she's dead.

Okay.

How old are your son?

He's seven.

I feel bad.

But

is there a reason that you did this?

Yeah, because she was going to leave me.

Okay.

Are you feeling any thoughts yourself of hurting yourself at all?

No, yes.

No.

If some arrests me, I'll spend the rest of my life in jail.

I won't say bye to my son.

Because I'll never see him again.

Let me say bye to Adrian.

Let me say bye to Adrian.

Who are you talking to?

My mom.

You're injured.

I love you, okay?

I love you, okay?

Where are you going?

Where is he?

Huh?

Where are you going, Dad?

Daddy's going to jail.

I love you, okay?

joy?

Mark said goodbye to his son and walked outside.

Officers arrived for the fourth time in as many months and arrested Mark without incident.

I'm here.

I'm here.

Hey, hey, no reason for weapons.

When detectives got around to interviewing Mark, it was around 8 a.m.

The orange glow from the streetlights in the parking lot had since been replaced by the early morning sun, peeking over trees in the east.

Inside, Mark sat calmly, as he didn't have a care in the world.

But his deep-set eyes stared forward with a terrifying intensity.

I was looking at her and I was just thinking, she's so evil.

How could she.

Why do you think she's evil?

Because she turned on me.

She lied to me.

She broke my heart.

What is she lied to about?

We were supposed to be with each other forever.

You were supposed to move in the apartment.

She

backstabbed me and betrayed me.

Well, it seemed like she, I guess she had to plan the whole time and she ended up using me, I guess.

You know, you know, it was her fault.

How could she do that to me on the day she graduates?

I supp

I'm just a very unstable person.

I just flip from one place to another.

You know, I just, I can't control my emotions.

Okay.

It's hard being bipolar because your emotions go this way and they go that way.

And like, you know,

I'm good, I'm good, I'm bad, I'm bad, I'm good, I'm good, I'm bad, I'm bad.

But I know I'm absolutely freaking nuts because everybody tells me I am.

What did you use?

I used a hammer.

I didn't want to do it, but I really didn't.

I sing.

It's the voices.

Do it, do it, do it, do it.

And I'd walk up, I'd put the hammer close to her head, and I'd walk away and then

I just closed my eyes and I just did it.

Why the hammer, though?

I don't I hate knives.

I don't want to do it with a knife.

Okay.

Was there anything special about it or anything?

No.

It was spontaneous.

I hate knives.

I don't want her to scream in front of my kid.

I don't want to see her, my kid hacking her to death.

You hit somebody in the head with a fucking hammer, they're out.

That's it.

You're out.

You hit somebody in the head with a baseball bat, they're out.

That night, as Anastasia and Adrian slept, Mark got a hammer from his mother's toolkit.

It was old and missing one of its claws in the back.

Mark held the hammer inches from Anastasia's head, his mind in conflict with itself.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Don't do it.

Do it.

Do it.

He tried to work up the courage to kill her, but his mind kept backing him out of it each time.

Then, suddenly, he swung.

Anastasia's skull cracked open like the shell of an egg.

I know she's gonna die because I could see the gashes and the blood in her head.

I can see like a piece of brain sticking out and shit.

So, you know, she made noise.

I'm like, Adrian, she's snoring, turn around, go back to sleep.

I pulled her out very quickly.

I remember pulling her out very quickly, and then I had to string lay her to put her out of her misery.

When Mark grabbed her by the ankles and dragged her from bed, A trail of blood was left behind from the gaping hole in her head.

He stopped for a moment to show his mother what he did and then continued to the living room.

Then he wrapped an electrical cord around her neck and finished her off.

And I did it very quick.

I did it very quick, and I was very slick.

And I

said something to her, but I'd rather not say it.

Okay, that's I'll say it because I don't give a fuck.

I'm going to electric shirt anyways.

I said,

you tore my heart out and you destroyed our family.

I saw them be together.

Mark was ricocheting between manic explanation and crippling sadness to the point where he could barely talk.

Even though he was crying, his words showed no remorse.

He didn't feel guilty about killing Anastasia or traumatizing Adrian for life.

He confessed to what he did, but his explanation of why would show just how twisted his mind had become.

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Hey, I'm Eric Kripke, Showrunner of the Boys, here with my friend Sean Ryan, showrunner of the night agent.

And on this episode of Creator to Creator, we will talk about the madness of making a TV show.

Listen to Creator to Creator, wherever you get your podcasts.

A nightmarish scene unfolded in the early morning hours of June 28th, 2018.

Seven-year-old Adrian's innocent mind tried to rationalize the horror, believing his mother simply had a boo-boo and that his father was just trying to help her.

Anastasia was an immigrant who moved to this country, learned English, and pursued her dream of becoming a doctor.

Mark, troubled since youth, struggled with his mental health and addiction into adulthood, but tried to provide for Anastasia and Adrian.

But after Anastasia's graduation, everything changed.

She acted as if she didn't need him anymore.

But she was just really fed up with all of his failures.

Mark saw this as a betrayal, and in the following weeks, his mental health started to unravel.

The paranoia took over.

I mean, basically, I supported her for 10 years while she went to medical school and, you know, and,

you know, paid all the bills and everything, you know.

And then, you know, once I lost my my job and everything, things started to get very sour.

And then she ended up graduating school.

She was, um, you know, she became a doctor.

Mark is sitting across from the detective, looking tired and speaking softly.

His life with Anastasia had fallen apart, and he feels like she destroyed it completely.

He's trying to explain how everything unraveled, and his voice shakes as he does.

The day that she graduated, she didn't come up, hug, or kiss me or anything.

She went directly to her friend.

She completely ignored me and blew me off.

And I was just heartbroken by that because we were so close.

Like, she's like, I don't want you anymore.

You're stupid.

You're an idiot.

Like, she would always undermine me and everything.

I just don't, I was, like, completely blindsided by it.

You know, I was destroyed.

I was hurt, you know?

Mark expected gratitude on Anastasia's graduation day, a sign that all of his sacrifices were appreciated.

Instead, in his eyes, she betrayed him.

When she walked past him with her success in hand, that moment was the final straw.

The deep love they once shared had curdled into jealousy and resentment.

Mark admits that something inside him was breaking slowly, steadily.

He couldn't control it.

He paced in the dark, dwelling on her perceived betrayal.

His mental state, already fragile from years of bipolar swings, was unraveling faster than he could grasp.

I just, the last few days have been pacing, I can't concentrate.

Like, I have the devil inside my head.

Killer.

She's gonna leave you.

I don't want her to leave me.

I love her.

I'd rather have her dead than

her leave me.

The admission comes out slowly, the weight of his words heavy in the room.

Mark's mental state shifts between love and violence, need and control.

In his fractured mind, killing her was the only way to keep her.

If he couldn't have her, no one.

would.

We all know how it goes.

You know,

I looked at her phone and she's talking to another guy and she's cheating on me.

How do you know she's cheating on you?

Because

like sweetie and you know, all the, you know, all blushing, you know what I mean?

Okay, so then when you read the text messages,

and I just want to understand, you

felt sad, but what else did you feel when you saw her saying sweetie?

Oh, I felt angry.

Okay.

And this voice is in my head.

My son, and sun, and sign.

See?

And sign.

Mark's jealousy boiled over.

In reality, there was no affair, but Mark's mind twisted the truth, turning innocent texts into evidence of infidelity.

Or maybe it's because he can't read that well.

Either way, he couldn't control his emotions anymore.

The voices in his head grew louder, more relentless, until they drowned out everything else.

I see a lot of black, I see a lot of shadows, and I see it's coming towards me.

I see black crows.

That is all I wanted was just a family.

That's all I wanted.

Like,

I'm 42 years old.

I don't have another chance at a family.

That's all I wanted.

I didn't want to lose her.

She's so mean to me.

She's so mean to me.

If she can't have a family with me, she cannot have a family with anybody else.

And that's it.

Mark's confession teeters between self-pity and delusion.

He blames his mental illness, claiming to see shadows and black crows.

Yet, he can't admit that his possessiveness and fear destroyed everything he wanted.

A family, stability, love.

Everything.

She betrayed me.

You don't sit there with somebody for 11 years, married for nine years,

have a child and a family.

Let me support her.

I supported her.

I was so proud of her.

Every time I talked to everyone, I'm like, my wife's going to be a doctor.

I know she had a beautiful future in front of her, but that beautiful future was supposed to be with me.

The pain in his voice is real, but twisted by possessiveness.

Mark didn't see Anastasia as an independent woman, as an equal.

Instead, he saw her as a part of himself, a token, a status symbol.

And now that part was leaving him.

Her betrayal wasn't just personal, it was the destruction of his identity.

Without her,

he was nothing.

You know, the person did want her.

I mean, she was very afraid of him.

And

she

should have left him a long time ago.

We tried to persuade her to move out of the house.

We said, why don't you divorce him?

I mean, we're going to help you.

We're going to

pull up paperwork together.

We're going to help you.

And she would say that

I'm scared because I brought this issue up several times.

And he always told me, if you're going to divorce me, you'll see what's going to happen.

You know,

somebody helping you pay through college is not worth the trauma or the hell you go through.

I don't know why she was so desperate.

Well, that was, Mark was her, it sounds like her only reason to be in the country.

That's right.

She's from Russia.

That's right.

They're married, she leaves, then she needed her citizenship.

So that's it.

That was, and then

if she doesn't need them anymore.

Right.

Well, she got her citizenship.

She's pretty much good to go.

Yeah.

Yeah.

From the outside, it was clear to everyone.

Anastasia could have left Mark long ago, but she stayed.

She needed Mark, but she didn't realize how much he needed her.

I think that he just couldn't accept the fact that she's going to be a successful doctor.

She's going to move out of that house and she's going to leave him to live his miserable life with his mom because he knew he's going to have no future.

He has no job.

He had criminal history.

And he just

couldn't let it happen i killed her i killed her that's it that's it there's nothing afterwards i i deserve to go to the penitentiary you know it's the hardest motherfuckers on earth they would probably beat the shit out of me and rape me but i deserve that i don't give a fuck you know what

you reap what you sold you know

there's a strange acceptance in mark's words he's resigned to his fate, knowing the only thing left for him is punishment.

Yet even now he feels justified, as if Anastasia's betrayal warranted the murder.

The conversation shifts to Adrian, the other victim of his actions.

Mark, despite his confessions, doesn't fully comprehend what he's done to his son.

I just say to my son, I go, oh, Adrian, I love you.

I gotta go.

And he's like, daddy, where are you going?

Like, you know, like he doesn't know he doesn't know a thing you know he didn't know what happened you know

and um

and i'm like i love you he's like i love you too daddy bye-bye that's the last time i'll ever see you

he's convinced that adrian doesn't understand and that he didn't see

but he did he saw everything The house they all shared wasn't that big.

When Mark dragged Anastasia's body from the bedroom to the living room, he was only five feet away.

Adrian had to step over his dead mother to get to Grandma Barb's bathroom.

How could he not see everything?

Anastasia's body lay right there, eyes vacant, with an extension cord wrapped around her neck.

You not think your son didn't see this?

No.

You honestly think that?

I know so.

Oh, you don't know so because your son's blocking stuff out and with the trauma that's going to, he's going to go through the rest of his life.

I know, and I understand.

I don't know.

I feel very guilty about that.

I don't think you feel guilty about that.

I did.

I think right now you're kind of, you've been cooperative up to this point, which is very good because you're being honest.

I'm here about the facts, but my main thing is the respect for your son.

I love my son very much.

If you love your son that much, then I'm trying to understand that.

How the equate of love versus what you just put your son through.

He didn't see that much.

Mark can't face the truth.

The trauma will stay with Adrian forever, but Mark is too far gone to accept it.

He loves his son, but his actions have destroyed any chance at normalcy.

I want to tell you that.

I feel so,

so bad for my son.

I feel

horrible that I committed this crime.

I

did not want her to destroy my family.

She ripped apart my heart.

But I'm the one that destroyed it.

Kill me.

Deserve it.

Mark's greatest fear that his family would fall apart became a reality.

But not because of Anastasia.

He destroyed it himself.

He did a good job, ensuring that Adrian would grow up without either parent present.

Mark didn't get the death penalty.

He was sentenced to life in prison for first-degree premeditated murder for the death of his wife.

Adrian was left in the custody of Grandma Barb until 2019.

when Anastasia's parents adopted him and took him back to Bolaris.

Grandma Barb passed away from natural causes on February 9th, 2024 at the age of 90.

Mark and Anastasia's relationship was built on a strong foundation.

As Anastasia became more independent and needed Mark less, he felt like he was losing his purpose.

When he lost his job and saw Anastasia succeed, He couldn't see a future with her and made a drastic decision, driven by fear and resentment.

He felt that losing her meant losing everything that defined him, leaving him with nothing to lose.

It wasn't love, it was toxic dependency that led to Anastasia's death.

It blurred the lines between love, control, and possession.

Mark believed it would hold them together, but it ultimately tore them apart, leaving devastation that even Adrian couldn't escape.

Adrian witnessed his mother's murder and was caught in the crossfire of his parents' toxic relationship, leaving invisible scars that may never heal.

He may never fully understand why his father did what he did, but he'll carry the weight of that night with him forever.

Every memory of his parents once tied to love and safety will be shadowed by violence and loss.

The childhood innocence that allowed him to rationalize his mother's boo-boo

is gone,

replaced by a reality far too heavy for a child to bear.

As he grows older, the ripple effects of that night will likely shape his relationships, his sense of trust, and his understanding of love,

forcing him to navigate life haunted by the actions of those who were supposed to protect him

the most.

That story was written by our senior producer, Evan Ziegelman.

If you like it, you'll find a whole lot more like it at swordandscale.com.

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