Episode 332

Speaker 1 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 1 I remember her saying

Speaker 4 that

Speaker 5 she has a little boy and she just kept saying Zion,

Speaker 5 but they didn't let her up.

Speaker 6 Welcome to episode 332 of Sword and the Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real.

Speaker 6 The final episode of this season was written and produced by Elena Thomas, one of our senior producers.

Speaker 6 As this year comes to a close, We'd like to say thank you to our entire staff, including producers Evan Ziegelman, Valerie Vernon, Michael Stebiel, Mish Barber Way.

Speaker 6 Also our engineers, Rob Ravelli and John McMichael, Gertie, who works our customer service whenever you have a problem with your app, which you can download by the way right now in the Google Play Store or the Apple App Store.

Speaker 6 I know we've been losing a few of you in the last year or so, and

Speaker 6 we'll try to get you back.

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Speaker 6 In early August of the year 2000, just before the new school year was about to begin, the heat sat heavy over Mayfield, Kentucky. It was still early in the morning, and everything was quiet and still.

Speaker 6 The only sounds were the occasional bird chirping on the rooftop of Mayfield Middle School and the floor waxing machines humming inside the building.

Speaker 6 Out behind the school, a teacher spotted an unusual dark shape in the grass.

Speaker 17 I taught an environmental science class and

Speaker 17 we, this was a memorial to a teacher that had died at our school and we always kept fresh flowers and kept it planted and weeded and stuff like that.

Speaker 17 I went out the door and I just I still had my hand on the door. I remember because if I had closed it, it would have locked.
And I saw this sandal laying right by the

Speaker 2 door.

Speaker 17 There's a little concrete pad there and I saw the sandal laying there and I just thought, you know, I wonder what that sandal's doing there. And when I looked over to the left is when I saw the body.

Speaker 6 It was hard to tell it was a human body though. The corpse was burned to a crisp.

Speaker 17 It just took me a few seconds to try to figure out, you know, that it was a body. And

Speaker 17 I just, I was still holding on to the door, and I just turned around. You know, I said to myself,

Speaker 17 I believe that's a body. And I went back in the building to find Mr.
Allman, my principal,

Speaker 17 to tell him. And

Speaker 17 I told him, I said, Mr. Allman, I think there's a dead body out back.

Speaker 17 And he immediately just started, you know, running down the hall. And

Speaker 17 we went back out there, and

Speaker 17 sure enough.

Speaker 6 The next day, August 2nd, officials used dental records to make an identification. The charred woman was confirmed to be 18-year-old Jessica Curran.
The autopsy offered few answers.

Speaker 6 It looked like she'd been badly beaten in the head and face. But a segment of a black braided leather belt found beside her body is what took center stage.

Speaker 6 Based on that, the medical examiner determined that she must have been strangled. Because the top half of her body was so badly burned, the usual indicators of strangulation weren't there.

Speaker 6 But the belt was enough. Just the same, there weren't any physical signs of sexual assault.
But detectives had found Jessica's ripped underwear near her body, so the assumption was made.

Speaker 6 Over by the glass doors of the school, they found a clump of Jessica's hair. and some suspicious smudging near the door handle.
Jessica hadn't gone down without a fight.

Speaker 6 Here are a couple of detectives from the Mayfield Police Department.

Speaker 18 It was obvious, even that part, you can tell that there's smudges could have been from anything.

Speaker 18 But I mean, it looked like hands had been, you know, like this, smudged over there. So

Speaker 18 with the clump of hair there, it certainly appeared to have been some type of struggle. Perhaps somebody trying to get in or throw the door open.

Speaker 18 You figure with that kind of violence, I mean, there's a big smash back of her head. Her nose is driven up into,

Speaker 18 I mean, this part is driven up into the brain, essentially. I mean, she's hit pretty hard.
And she was tagged hard.

Speaker 18 Very painful, had to be. So you figured blood spattering somewhere.
So it probably did.

Speaker 18 But with all the rain, it washed its way. And then they found later that there was still a lot of blood there and it drained there.
So most of it happened pretty close to there.

Speaker 18 And definitely the burning happened there because the grass is firm.

Speaker 6 The grass around her body was scorched. Detectives took that to mean she was set on fire right there in that spot, not burned elsewhere and moved.

Speaker 6 This was assumed to be a violent, bloody struggle. But there was no blood evidence found at the scene.
After all, Jessica had been laying in this spot behind the middle school for two days or more.

Speaker 6 Because of the environmental damage, the medical examiner was limited in what he could say for sure. He listed strangulation as the cause of death.

Speaker 6 The rest, possible head and facial injuries, couldn't be pinned down with certainty. In truth, there wasn't much left to go on.

Speaker 6 What everyone hoped, though, is that Jessica died before she was set on fire.

Speaker 21 From what we gathered, it was from the autopsy report.

Speaker 18 We don't know for sure. There's no way to tell perfectly other than there's no soot.
in there to where she would have breathed any soot at that point.

Speaker 18 So, I mean, honestly, we're hoping she was dead before she was set on fire.

Speaker 6 Forensic evidence can give you an approximate time of death and tell you how someone was killed, but it can't tell you who a person truly was.

Speaker 6 18-year-old Jessica Curran came from a notable local family. Her dad, Joe Curran, was the definition of Mayfield.

Speaker 6 High school football, church on Sundays, a small business, and eventually captain of the fire department. Can you picture it? Typical Americana stereotype.

Speaker 6 The dark irony of the situation was not lost on anyone. When his daughter was killed, Joe believed his town would rally and discover the truth.
Years later, though, he would still be asking for it.

Speaker 19 She was pretty tiny. I think she was about seven pounds or so when she was born, a little over.

Speaker 19 After she grew up, she was more like 5'9 or so.

Speaker 19 Long legs, tall. A next son came three years years later and she was pretty much a mother for him.
She packed him around all the time. She recorded his football games.

Speaker 19 She recorded his basketball games. And we could tell most of the time when she did the recording, most of the time, recording was only on him.
It wasn't on the team. It was just on him.

Speaker 19 I thought that was so funny. I'm like, who scored the points? And who else is playing on this team?

Speaker 19 She's had everything on Josh. She showed everything on him.
She didn't act like nobody else was on the team. You could hear her hollering for him, go, Josh, go, Josh.

Speaker 19 She really loved her brothers.

Speaker 19 She really loved her family.

Speaker 6 But soon, Jessica grew up. She wasn't a little girl anymore caring for her brothers.
She was a young woman who had just entered adulthood and found herself unexpectedly pregnant.

Speaker 19 It wasn't a happy time.

Speaker 19 I wasn't ready for that at that time.

Speaker 19 But she was old enough and I know she had been seeing a few guys and

Speaker 19 I knew it was a possibility.

Speaker 6 Now this was a community where word got around.

Speaker 6 People were talking about who the father of Jessica's son Zion might be and why he might have wanted Jessica dead. Within two months, two local men were under the microscope.

Speaker 6 At the time of her murder, baby Zion was only seven months old. When she first had him, she thought Zion's Zion's father was a guy she really liked, someone named Marcus.

Speaker 6 But there was a possibility that it was another man, someone Jessica really

Speaker 6 didn't like. Do you know Jessica Kern?

Speaker 23 Yes, I do. How did you know Jessica?

Speaker 24 I met her at Grace County High School.

Speaker 5 We went to school together.

Speaker 24 We had a math class together and we just started interacting with one another and

Speaker 24 started hanging out and

Speaker 24 became pretty good friends. I considered her one of my best friends.

Speaker 24 Well

Speaker 24 that night had to have been the night she got pregnant.

Speaker 26 So

Speaker 24 she probably conceived that night because the person she was seeing on the regular, her sexual partner was Marcus Morris.

Speaker 24 And she swore that that's who the baby she just knew that's who the baby's daddy was because, I mean, for real, it was one time with Jeremy, you know, and she, we didn't even think about that night because we hadn't even seen the dude since then, you know.

Speaker 24 And

Speaker 24 so when the baby was born, she was trying to get child support ordered for Marcus or whatever, and they'd done a DNA test and it came back negative. Or however they come back.
It wasn't his.

Speaker 24 And so she called me and she told me and she's like, Jessica, the only other person that could be is Jeremy Adams.

Speaker 6 According to her best friend, Jessica was devastated and for good reason.

Speaker 24 When we were hanging out, we first started hanging out, she wasn't really dating anyone. There was a few, I mean, we just hung out with people.
We didn't really date.

Speaker 24 We would go to football games and, you know, just things like that with our friends. And then

Speaker 24 she did start seeing Jeremy Adams. But it wasn't a date thing.
It was a

Speaker 24 hangout thing. Like, so we all went back to my house and we hung out or whatever.
And that night,

Speaker 24 he

Speaker 24 kind of forcibly took her around the building and they had sex.

Speaker 23 It was like two seconds.

Speaker 24 They were around there and came back and he walked off.

Speaker 26 And

Speaker 24 that was that. And then

Speaker 24 we didn't really...

Speaker 24 See him again. We didn't really hang out with him again or anything because she felt uncomfortable about that.

Speaker 24 Nope.

Speaker 6 Rumors that Jeremy was the father of Jessica's baby gave rise to theories. This was only fueled by the indicators that there had been a struggle at the middle school.

Speaker 6 The clump of Jessica's hair, the smudges on the glass doors, and a baby that might not be his.

Speaker 6 All this put him right there in the crosshairs of the investigation.

Speaker 6 The circle soon widened to include Carlos Saxton, who moved in Jeremy's orbit and according to Mayfield police was with him the night they went looking for Jessica.

Speaker 6 They would both face indictment, Jeremy with murder and Carlos as an accomplice to murder. The audio you're about to hear is from the grand jury proceeding.

Speaker 21 Would you state your name for the record, please? Detective Tim Fortner.

Speaker 28 I'm Tim and how you're employed.

Speaker 21 I'm employed by the city of Mayfield as a police detective. So if you would, let's just tell the grand jury what happened and how you got involved in the investigation and where we are.

Speaker 6 Apparently, Jeremy Adams had a cellmate at the county jail named Jesse.

Speaker 6 Well, Jesse desperately wanted to tell authorities what Jeremy had shared with him while they were locked up together.

Speaker 21 Jesse is very

Speaker 21 distraught, crying,

Speaker 21 said that

Speaker 21 this has bothered him. That's the reason he wanted to talk to us.

Speaker 21 He never mentioned anything about any money, any crime stoppers, nothing.

Speaker 21 He just

Speaker 21 was very distraught about this.

Speaker 6 Jesse seemed genuinely terrified at the prospect of sharing a cell with a murderer. So scared, in fact, that he requested a different cellmate.

Speaker 6 Eventually, he even requested to be transferred to a different facility.

Speaker 6 Here's Jesse's statement.

Speaker 21 On January the 15th, Yeremy came to my cell while me and two other inmates were there and started talking about Jessica's case again and made the statement that he'd have been seeing Jessica and that she had messed around with someone.

Speaker 21 Then he was talking about an argument and her running out of her brown sandal and being hit in the head so hard that her tongue was in and out.

Speaker 21 Then he had made the statement that her little white panties had been tore off and fell beside her and that she had been killed in one spot and drugged to another.

Speaker 21 He also at one time said something about

Speaker 21 after she was burned and turned over about the braided hair being stuck to the ground and said something about not wanting his girlfriend finding out about the baby they had together.

Speaker 6 These are a lot of details that, as far as I know, weren't public knowledge at the time. And if Jeremy had a girlfriend, that's another possible motive.

Speaker 6 Jeremy stated that he didn't want his girlfriend to find out that he had a baby with another woman. Based on all of this, a grand jury returned indictments for both Jeremy and Carlos.

Speaker 6 The cases were slowly headed towards trial. Jeremy was set for February of 2003, but less than a week before the start date, a judge dismissed the case entirely.
The reason?

Speaker 6 Mayfield police had failed to turn over audio and video evidence. They had, you know, fucked up a procedural thing.
Some paperwork, some nonsense. And that was that.

Speaker 6 Jessica's family felt they knew who had done this. Jeremy's cellmate was certain he was the one who had killed Jessica, but now Jeremy was walking free.

Speaker 6 Here's Jessica's dad.

Speaker 19 I wasn't really happy about that at all. I felt like they finally got somebody and now they're releasing them.

Speaker 19 I remember the first time that I, after the case had went, they had released the first three, and me and my wife went to Walmart.

Speaker 19 And I know a lot of people I've been around this area all my entire life

Speaker 19 and I went in Walmart and I would see somebody that I knew and I was friends with and I always speak to talk to or shake hands with and they would turn away

Speaker 19 and some of them wouldn't know what to say

Speaker 19 and some of them would just turn and go a different direction to avoid me

Speaker 19 and that night I realized what an impact it had

Speaker 26 on the community, the people here.

Speaker 19 So I went back to the car. I told my my wife,

Speaker 19 I'm not going to put those people through that.

Speaker 19 They really didn't know what to say to me. What do you say to a person who's lost their daughter and then they release the people?

Speaker 19 They really didn't know what to say.

Speaker 19 What do you say?

Speaker 6 For years, Jessica's murder sat unsolved. But sometimes the person who breaks a case doesn't carry a badge.

Speaker 6 In Kentucky, a homemaker named Susan Galbreth decides Jessica's murder shouldn't fade into the shadows.

Speaker 6 If you've spent any time at all in the Facebook community, especially the true crime community, you'll know that there's a whole lot of these people out there.

Speaker 6 They call themselves, I guess, web sleuths or armchair detectives or, I don't know, any number of things, but they got a whole lot of time on their hands and they spend it trying to solve cold cases, often to the detriment of the official investigation.

Speaker 6 Anyway, Susan Galbreth was one of these people, and she says she was at the crime scene that day, and when she saw Jessica's body, she knew she had to help.

Speaker 6 So she starts small with a phone, a list of names, and the patience to call dozens of people.

Speaker 6 She keeps notes about things that don't sit right with her. She shows up with questions and lets people talk.

Speaker 6 Tips all start landing in one place,

Speaker 6 Susan's notebook. Bit by bit, doors that stayed closed for law enforcement open for her.

Speaker 6 Officials learn her name. Reporters do also.
And for the first time in a long time, this case feels like it might actually be solvable by a determined woman with a stubborn streak.

Speaker 6 This is the part that really makes you want to believe in humanity. at least a little bit.
The crazy and hopeful idea that an armchair detective can do what the system can't or won't.

Speaker 6 Because it looks like maybe, just maybe,

Speaker 6 Susan would be the one to solve the murder of Jessica Curran.

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Speaker 6 In August of the year 2000, The charred body of 18-year-old Jessica Curran was found behind a middle school in Mayfield, Kentucky. The autopsy leaned on a piece of braided belt that was found nearby.

Speaker 6 So the medical examiner deduced that the cause of death was strangulation. The early case zeroed in on a man named Jeremy Adams and his friend Carlos Saxton.

Speaker 6 They were both indicted, but in 2003 the cases were dismissed after discovery violations.

Speaker 6 Years passed without answers until 2004, when a Kentucky homemaker and self-proclaimed citizen sleuth put the case back up on the map.

Speaker 6 Susan Galbreth had no law enforcement experience and had never done any real detective work.

Speaker 6 But sitting alone at home, she started investigating.

Speaker 33 Remind me when you said you became

Speaker 5 interested in this case.

Speaker 35 Oh, today the body was found.

Speaker 36 The day Jessica's body was found.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 33 did you have contact with the Curran's

Speaker 6 during that time? No.

Speaker 6 I knew.

Speaker 34 Did you follow it in the paper?

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 34 Did you say that you weren't, were you employed at that time?

Speaker 6 Um, no.

Speaker 36 I've been hurt out of my job in 98, so I hadn't had

Speaker 36 a job since then.

Speaker 6 And this new job that had fallen into her lap was the one she knew she couldn't do alone. So, shooting for the moon, she started reaching out to celebrities like Oprah Winfrey and Julia Roberts.

Speaker 6 Most never wrote back, of course. I mean, I doubt they even see their own fan mail.

Speaker 6 But one person

Speaker 4 did.

Speaker 6 Not any of the A-listers, but a guy named Tom Mangold, a veteran BBC journalist in London. Susan, it seems, had cast a very wide net.

Speaker 6 Her matter-of-fact email landed in Tom's inbox, and he answered it. In quick succession, He shelled out his own cash, bought a plane ticket, and flew to Kentucky.

Speaker 28 I don't think Susan herself is quite sure what it was that particularly grabbed her about the Jessica Curran case.

Speaker 28 If I had to hazard a guess, and I've never really done more than guess about it, I think she has a kind of Erin Brockovich dimension, which came out at that particular time.

Speaker 28 And I think it's still there, and I think it could come out again tomorrow. You're asking me why did I censor story? One just does.
I mean, it seemed to me that

Speaker 28 here was a very interesting situation where you you have a murder.

Speaker 28 Well, murder is pretty commonplace everywhere in the Western world, but you had somebody who was absolutely dedicated to finding who the culprits were, didn't quite know why she was so dedicated, and was up against what was effectively a corrupt police force, a totally failed series of investigations that just plowed on and on without any particular benefit to herself.

Speaker 6 By the spring of 2004, Tom Mangold was on the ground reporting with Susan. He once was a journalist reporting on wars, organized crime, and UK politics.

Speaker 6 Now, he was in Mayfield, Kentucky, reporting on a young woman's murder. Susan opened doors, and Tom put a spotlight on what they were hearing.

Speaker 6 In the fall of the same year, Tom put the case under the microscope with an article called, Murder in a Small Town.

Speaker 6 Around the same time, the state's investigative arm, the newly built Kentucky Bureau of Investigation, got involved.

Speaker 6 In 2005, two women who had already been interviewed years earlier, Victoria Caldwell and Venetia Stubblefield, changed their stories.

Speaker 6 Those new statements taken by state investigators now pointed to an entirely different suspect.

Speaker 25 Why did they ask you to make this statement?

Speaker 5 They asked me to make this statement because

Speaker 38 they wanted me to fly for

Speaker 38 unflinching

Speaker 38 crops.

Speaker 6 These re-interviews were done in a hotel conference room for some reason. People who had told one story the first time around were now telling an entirely different story.

Speaker 6 But KBI ate up every bit of it. Susan Galbreth was happy to see her cunning detective work finally paying off.

Speaker 6 You're fully confident in the results that you got, obviously. I am.

Speaker 35 Yes. I interviewed Quincy Cross.
I spent about an hour and a half long interview with him. And in that interview Tom told me don't expect a confession and so I didn't

Speaker 35 but the truth never changes but but lies do. In that interview he gave me some telling information that I knew had never been made public.

Speaker 35 I remember at the time screaming pretty much to Kentucky State Police that, you know, this is enough to arrest him on right here. Did it happen? No.

Speaker 35 But I definitely believe they've got the right culprit with Quincy Cross.

Speaker 6 Quincy Cross was Victoria's cousin's boyfriend. Victoria tells KBI that somehow everyone involved knew they were going to be interviewed by the Mayfield police.

Speaker 6 And 15-year-old Victoria says she was told to lie to divert attention away from Quincy.

Speaker 6 She says she obeyed.

Speaker 25 How did you come up on your information

Speaker 25 that you knew about

Speaker 23 Quincy?

Speaker 4 Um, I,

Speaker 17 what do you mean?

Speaker 25 How did you know your information?

Speaker 5 Because

Speaker 5 I heard my husband speaking about it

Speaker 5 and I heard him say some things.

Speaker 6 Okay.

Speaker 29 When you talk to us,

Speaker 25 if we had no knowledge of the case,

Speaker 23 Victoria, I want you to use names because you know if you know all the people that you're talking about,

Speaker 23 we need to know.

Speaker 6 Victoria's first statements to KBI were cautious. She says she just overheard her cousin talking to Quincy Cross about the case, and that's where she was getting her information.

Speaker 6 But after numerous follow-up interviews that summer, her story crystallized. Victoria's statements would implicate six people in total, including herself.

Speaker 6 By the time she took the stand in 2008, her story had become sharper, more linear, and much more disturbing.

Speaker 5 And that's when Quincy

Speaker 5 and Tamar

Speaker 5 and this white guy, I don't remember his name, but they had pulled up to my house.

Speaker 39 You said you remembered his first night.

Speaker 37 Yeah.

Speaker 23 It was Jeffrey.

Speaker 5 My cousin asked me if I wanted to take a ride with them. And I was like, yeah, because she's older than me, you know, so it's cool to hang out with older people.

Speaker 5 So then I get into the car with them, which I got into the back seat.

Speaker 5 They picked up Anisha.

Speaker 5 Venetia had mentioned that Jessica had me arrived at the party and I guess nobody wanted to give her a ride.

Speaker 5 So I don't remember what was said, but

Speaker 5 Quincy and Tamar had whisper something to each other

Speaker 5 and they were like, okay, then we'll go pick her up. Jessica gets into the car.

Speaker 5 When we got to the white guys' house,

Speaker 5 they had gotten out we all had gotten out, but they had pulled um Jessica to get out the car with them, kind of like forcing her to get out the car.

Speaker 5 And they go inside and then they go into this bedroom.

Speaker 5 The white guy had left me and had went into the room with them and he came right back out. But then I heard yelling.
And it's me, so I was wondering what the hell was going on. And so

Speaker 5 I opened the door and that's how I had seen Tamara holding Jessica down. and Quincy over her with the belt around her neck.

Speaker 5 And Quincy was kind of over her, like, kind of like over her stomach, like up high,

Speaker 5 on her stomach area. And he had a belt that he had gotten from his aunts and had put it around her neck.

Speaker 5 And she was just,

Speaker 5 I remember her saying

Speaker 17 that

Speaker 5 she has a little boy, and she just kept saying Zion.

Speaker 5 And, but they didn't let her up.

Speaker 5 And I just went back out of the room real quick and I had just sat down on that couch and then I just ran back in there again.

Speaker 5 And that's when I was like,

Speaker 5 She's not breathing. So I touched her neck,

Speaker 26 and

Speaker 5 I told him that she was dead.

Speaker 6 Victoria says her cousin Tamara took some photos of Quincy with Jessica's body. These photos were never found.

Speaker 5 From the pictures that I saw, Tamara had to take a couple of those pictures

Speaker 5 because

Speaker 5 she

Speaker 5 had his private area out

Speaker 5 and I I was like kind of torched her lips.

Speaker 7 Just his lips.

Speaker 4 This is...

Speaker 7 Was this before or after she was

Speaker 6 murdered?

Speaker 5 After she was murdered.

Speaker 5 That's what I mean by they were getting off on it.

Speaker 6 Victoria says they wrapped Jessica's body in a blanket and threw her into the trunk of the car.

Speaker 6 They drove around for a while and eventually ended up in the Mayfield Middle School.

Speaker 21 Okay, so they stopped at the school.

Speaker 16 Who gets the body out of the trunk?

Speaker 5 First, Quincy and the white guy tried to lift the body out of the trunk, but they couldn't. So Tammer went to the back and helped them lift the body out.

Speaker 37 Okay.

Speaker 10 And what do they do with the body then?

Speaker 5 They lay it

Speaker 5 in the flower bed area, where the flower bed is.

Speaker 29 Okay, and

Speaker 7 then what happens?

Speaker 5 They...

Speaker 5 I don't remember if they took the blanket off. I don't remember.

Speaker 5 Quincy poured the gas on her and and venisha had through the match where did he pour the gas um what was the majority of the gas poured on

Speaker 5 i believe it was her face i'm not really sure okay

Speaker 16 so he pours the gas what does he do with the cut

Speaker 26 um

Speaker 5 i don't remember what he did with the cut because after he poured the gas and venished through the match i ran

Speaker 7 okay so

Speaker 7 Quincy, everybody gets their story together.

Speaker 39 Jeremy Adams is going to be the fall guy. Was there any discussion?

Speaker 39 How did Jeremy Adams' name come into it? Whose idea was that?

Speaker 5 That was Quincy's, because I guess Jeremy owed him some money.

Speaker 5 Okay.

Speaker 39 Was there a mention, was there any mention about, did anybody know that Jeremy ever had a relationship with Jessica?

Speaker 7 Tamer knew that.

Speaker 39 How did she know that?

Speaker 4 I don't know.

Speaker 5 Tamer has known Jessica for a long time, from my understanding.

Speaker 6 But it wasn't just Victoria Caldwell who had changed her story and agreed to testify. Venetia Stubblefield wasn't a primary witness, but she corroborated pieces of Victoria's story.

Speaker 6 This included the others that were implicated in Victoria's version of events. A man named Jeff Burton, the owner of the house she testified that the murder happened in.

Speaker 6 Her cousin, Tamara Caldwell, and a guy named Austin Leach.

Speaker 6 and someone named Isaac Benjamin. All this testimony gave the jury a cohesive chain from the house to the car to the middle school.

Speaker 6 Victoria also testified that after that day, Quincy called her, claiming the belt used to kill Jessica was his and offered Victoria money to keep quiet.

Speaker 6 The Commonwealth put all of this in front of a jury. There were no dramatic forensics, there was no hard physical evidence, and no confession from Quincy.

Speaker 6 It was all a narrative built from testimony with Victoria Caldwell at the center of it all.

Speaker 6 And it worked. Ultimately, the jury decided this group of people were guilty and that Quincy Cross was the ringleader.

Speaker 6 After being found guilty on charges of murder, first-degree rape, first-degree sodomy, abuse of a corpse, and tampering with evidence, Quincy was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Speaker 6 After the trial, guilty verdict, and sentencing, numerous questions still hung in the air. When a case leans this hard on human stories, some of them changing over time, how should we weigh them?

Speaker 6 What's the standard? People forget things and get things wrong all of the time.

Speaker 6 We know that. We've seen it.
So what do you do with human testimony?

Speaker 7 As you can imagine, I get presented with cases

Speaker 7 many times a day, all day. I mean,

Speaker 7 you know, that's one of the the things about being known in this space, right? A lot of people need help. And if they're smart and, you know, and they have the ability, they're going to reach out.
So.

Speaker 6 This is Jason Flum.

Speaker 6 He's a veteran record executive turned innocence advocate. Whether you think you're the next big pop star or you're wrongfully convicted, he's the guy to call.

Speaker 7 When I first heard about this case from... A guy in prison in Mississippi who I've been trying to help for some time now.
His name is Sharon Edwards, but he calls himself Sherlock Homeboy.

Speaker 7 He's a great guy. He's not an innocent guy, but it's a complicated case.

Speaker 7 But anyway, Sharon Sherlock enjoys researching cases around the country and bringing them to me when he finds cases of actual innocence. So he spends his time in the law library

Speaker 7 and he brought me the case of Quincy Cross. And when I heard about it, I just was blown away.

Speaker 7 I mean, I hear so many crazy cases, but the deeper you get into this one, it's like layers of a rotten onion. You just keep peeling them, and it just keeps smelling worse and worse.
And you go, wow,

Speaker 7 how could this be? And then I came to find out, sorry for my rant here, but I came to find out that

Speaker 7 the two dads, Quincy Cross's dad and Jessica Curran's dad, have been aligned for many, many years now, working together to try to get justice.

Speaker 7 David Cross wants justice for his son, who's wrongfully convicted.

Speaker 7 And Mr. Curran believes, wants justice for his daughter.
And

Speaker 7 he's unequivocal in that he doesn't believe they got the right person.

Speaker 7 And so it's such an unusual and powerful alignment to have the two dads working together when one would think that they would be mortal enemies.

Speaker 6 If the people who lived this case say Quincy isn't the killer, what do they know that the jury didn't?

Speaker 7 One of the things that makes this case so maddening is the idea that first thing they did was they assigned a rookie cop. Well, a rookie, a guy who'd just been promoted to detective.

Speaker 7 He was a patrolman up until, you know, I don't know, days or weeks before this happened in a place that hadn't had a murder in over a year.

Speaker 7 And they assigned this guy, Tim Fortner, who has said that he thinks that they were setting him up to fail. He didn't know anything.
He didn't even know to secure the crime scene.

Speaker 7 They threw out evidence, like lots of evidence. They threw out the maggots that were on the body.

Speaker 7 Sorry for that detail, because she had been dead for some time, which would have helped to determine how long she had been there for.

Speaker 7 They threw out all sorts of other evidence and they allowed people to sort of trap through the crime scene, which is, you know, again, give me your random, you know, teenager, and they would know from watching crime shows on their laptop that or their iPad that that's you don't do that right but Tim was

Speaker 7 Tim was way over his head but there was a lot of stuff going on I mean the Mayfield police department was hopelessly corrupt and that's not speculation right that's been proven the the head guy there Ronnie Lear was almost comically

Speaker 7 corrupt and was you know indicted and

Speaker 7 charged and convicted of all sorts of, you know, all sorts of crimes. You know, when he cleared out, when he was fired from the police department, they cleared out his desk.
They found,

Speaker 7 as his successor said, they found enough drugs for half of Mayfield in his desk.

Speaker 7 And they found guns that weren't his police weapon, and they weren't registered to him, and they don't know who it belonged to.

Speaker 7 He was caught stealing from the evidence room and selling. various items.
I mean,

Speaker 7 he was a character.

Speaker 6 And into this mess enters Susan Galbreth, the professional armchair detective.

Speaker 39 You know Susan Galbraith?

Speaker 18 Yes, sir, I do.

Speaker 37 And she was involved in the investigations of this case, was she not?

Speaker 19 Yes, sir.

Speaker 37 She has nothing to do with law enforcement, does she?

Speaker 18 No, sir.

Speaker 37 Yet, she was actually

Speaker 37 involved and present during official questioning of witnesses, was she not?

Speaker 6 Official questioning of witnesses?

Speaker 18 Yes.

Speaker 37 In other words, we look at transcripts where they say persons present.

Speaker 37 And we'll see you and why it's O'Neill Calvert. So-and-so-and so-so, Calvert.
She was at these interviews. That's possible.

Speaker 7 She was, you know, bizarrely almost anointed,

Speaker 7 deputized, someone who had no experience, no background in law enforcement or any investigative experience, or anything. She wasn't a journalist.

Speaker 7 She was just a homemaker who they allowed to run roughshod over this case. And she was given full access to everything.

Speaker 7 And sure enough, she got her way and she got some awards. And she's not around anymore, but

Speaker 7 she died relatively young, I guess. But she left a trail of bodies in her wake that is really

Speaker 7 extraordinary.

Speaker 34 Did you have an interest in

Speaker 34 criminal law in general?

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 36 when I was a child, I either wanted to be a comedian or a police officer.

Speaker 6 So I'm neither, of course.

Speaker 36 I've just always had a fascination with the law and things like that.

Speaker 33 Had you taken an interest in other cases prior to this one?

Speaker 36 Yeah, I like followed court TV, stuff like that.

Speaker 6 And

Speaker 36 so I, of course, was,

Speaker 36 at the time, there were so many murders in Mayfield going on that it

Speaker 36 I was I was just you know dumbfounded by it. It was just you know and here was another one and it just all of them kind of captured and interested me, you know.

Speaker 36 So

Speaker 36 Detective Steeger and I, through Detective Mills, became acquainted and so I started anytime I needed anything that I could give him, I would call him then, you know.

Speaker 6 Just a reminder, this was quite literally a random unemployed woman calling to interview people, taking notes, and reporting back to authorities. And they were taking her seriously.

Speaker 6 This should tell you something about the state and effectiveness of government, more than anything. That is, if you're smart enough to pay attention.

Speaker 6 The audio you've been hearing, by the way, is from her testimony at Quincy Cross's trial. That's how deeply she was integrated into this case.

Speaker 7 She was definitely a key piece of it. They really didn't have much else.

Speaker 7 They had some circumstantial evidence that even after it was disproven, they clung to, and they kept reinforcing it and hitting the jury over the head with it figuratively. And,

Speaker 7 you know,

Speaker 7 but there's so much to process because it's such a crazy web of lies and corruption.

Speaker 7 And, you know, and nine people arrested for this crime under these whacked out theories and

Speaker 7 you know

Speaker 7 several of whom ended up in prison and Quincy's the only one who's still in prison but some of them you know there were people who were forced to testify in a certain way and then have recanted all the witnesses have recanted and there's no physical evidence of any kind all these years later as we know now there's none There's zero evidence connecting any of the people who eventually were targeted and I believe framed for this horrible crime to the crime itself or to Jessica.

Speaker 7 And what we know now is that most of them didn't even know each other at the time that they supposedly committed this crime together. Things that make you go, hmm, right? That pointed towards,

Speaker 7 you know, some of the people who ended up in the crosshairs of law enforcement. But how those things unravel is breathtaking.

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Speaker 6 When 18-year-old Jessica Curran's body was found behind a Mayfield Middle School in 2000, the crime scene was handled sloppily, to say the least. Evidence went missing.

Speaker 6 The Mayfield Police Department was corrupt, and as a result, they dropped the ball, and the ball fell through the grate and into the sewer.

Speaker 6 Their original suspect, Jeremy Adams, slipped through their incompetent fingers. Then, after a year of stagnation, a new storyline formed around Susan Galbreth, the local sleuth.

Speaker 6 Suddenly, memories started to change. With Susan's help, Victoria Caldwell and a few others came forward to law enforcement with their new story, that Quincy Cross had killed Jessica Curran.

Speaker 6 But there are glaring issues with this second attempt at justice.

Speaker 6 We know the justice system is flawed, but digging into the intricacies of a case like this reveals just how deep the roots of corruption can grow.

Speaker 6 This is a complicated story, but if you've been listening to our show for many years, you'll keep keep up just fine.

Speaker 7 You're not a sword and scale regular listener and you don't know what you're doing, right? I mean,

Speaker 7 that doesn't make you mean you're going to be right all the time, but you're more informed than 99% of the general public. You're listening to a sword and scale on a regular basis.

Speaker 7 So I'm a podcast fan, and true crime podcasts are my jam. And maybe that sounds terrible, but it's true.
But this one, I believe, is as good as any. that you've ever heard, that I've ever heard.

Speaker 6 Jason Flom isn't just a huge name in the music industry. He's one of the founding members of the Innocence Project.
I'm sure you've heard of it.

Speaker 7 And I'm not just being nice to him because he's kissing my ass. My origin story goes back to 1993 when I randomly picked up a newspaper on my way in a taxi to go somewhere.

Speaker 7 And there was a story about a kid named Stephen Lennon who was serving 15 to life on a nonviolent first offense cocaine possession charge in a maximum security prison in New York State.

Speaker 7 And it was in the paper because his mother, who was just a mother who wanted her son back, right? She wasn't like any influential person, had no particular means.

Speaker 7 She was just a regular everyday person from Rome, New York. And she had been petitioning for clemency for her son.
He had already been in for eight years. He was 32.
I was 32.

Speaker 7 At this point, I had been sober almost eight years. And I was like, this is too close for comfort.
That could have been me, right?

Speaker 7 I'm not a religious guy, but there before the grace of whatever you believe in, goes I, right?

Speaker 7 So a major political figure at the time had asked the governor to grant clemency to her son and he had refused, which is why it was in the newspaper. So I just thought, this is insane.

Speaker 7 I didn't know that we put people in prison for 15 years to life for a nonviolent first defense cocaine possession charge. Like, ah, I was like, this is, you know, it freaked me out.

Speaker 7 And I decided I had to try to do something, knowing nothing at all. I'm a 32-year-old AR guy aspiring to make my way in the music industry.
And

Speaker 7 I called the mother on the phone. Her name was Shirley.
Her number was in the phone book, luckily. I offered to send some money to get a new lawyer.

Speaker 7 She said they had exhausted all their appeals and it was hopeless. And one thing led to another.
I called up the only criminal defense lawyer I knew at the time, a guy named Bob Calina.

Speaker 7 He represented Stone Temple Pilots in Skid Row, and they were getting arrested weekly back then. Those are your listeners who are old enough to remember, would remember that.
Got him to agree.

Speaker 7 He agreed to take the case pro bono. He said it was hopeless, but he was going to try.
And six months later, we ended up in a courtroom in Malone, New York, and I sat there holding Mrs. Lennon's hand.

Speaker 7 Her husband Stan was on the other side. Stephen was there in shackles as if he was some, you know, serial killer or something, right? And I said, non-violent for his defender.

Speaker 7 And the judge was this old guy with white hair. And I was like, this is not going to go well.
But it did. And he banged that gavel down and sent Stephen home.
And that was my moment.

Speaker 7 I said, this is, I didn't know I had a superpower, but if I do, this is it. And I'm going to use it as much as I can for as long as I can.
And I've never looked back. I've never stopped.

Speaker 7 That's literally half a lifetime ago for me. So from there, I learned about an organization called Families Against Mandatory Minimums, now called FAMM.
I became their first board member.

Speaker 7 And soon after that, I learned about the work of the Innocence Project. Barry Scheck and Peter Dufeld had started the Innocence Project in the early 90s.

Speaker 7 And what I saw on TV was even another level of insanity, which was a case where this guy had been scheduled to be executed.

Speaker 7 And these guys, these two geniuses had come along with their law books and their microscopes and their knowledge of science.

Speaker 7 And they found the DNA and they identified it and they proved that he could not have been the person that committed this crime. And he was not only not executed, he was freed.

Speaker 7 And I said, that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. And I rushed down to their office and I walked in and I said, I don't know what you guys need me to do, but I'll do it.
And I'll do more.

Speaker 7 And so myself and a guy named Jack Taylor became the first two board members of the Innocence Project. So founding board member, not the founders, because the founders are Barry and Peter, but,

Speaker 7 you know, who are heroes of mine. And so I've been, you know, working on these issues ever since.
and I'll never stop as long as I'm breathing.

Speaker 6 Jason's decades of experience have helped him and his team to suss out false claims of innocence. Sometimes a guy saying he's been wrongfully convicted really did commit the crime.

Speaker 6 In fact, that's often the case. But Jason is confident that this isn't what happened with Quincy Cross.

Speaker 7 I'm so glad I get the opportunity to tell you the story. So after I heard about the case from Sherlock Homeboy,

Speaker 7 there's another another case, another Kentucky case I've been working on for some time of a guy named James Mallory. And he's been in prison, oh my God, for, I mean, pretty much since he was 11.

Speaker 7 I've been working on trying to help free him. And I happened to be on the phone with him not too long after I first heard about this crazy case.

Speaker 7 And I said to him,

Speaker 7 James, you're not going to believe this. I just got involved in another Kentucky case.

Speaker 7 It's this horrible case where this poor girl is 18 years old and, you know, just a beautiful young girl starting her life and, you know, was set on fire behind the middle school.

Speaker 7 And he goes, oh, you're talking about the Quincy Cross case? I'm like, yeah, Quincy Cross. He goes, oh, man.
He goes, that motherfucker's innocent. I'm like,

Speaker 7 I go, what? He goes, oh, yeah. He says,

Speaker 7 he's definitely in it. I know he's innocent.
I go, how do you know he's innocent? He goes, man, I was in jail with him. He says, he's a good dude.
He goes, I read his transcripts.

Speaker 7 I know the case inside and out. That guy's definitely innocent.
I go, he's definitely innocent. He goes, no, I'm telling you, he's really, really innocent.

Speaker 7 I go, how do you say he's really, really, really innocent? He said, well, because, dude, he goes, the actual killer was my cellmate.

Speaker 7 He goes, look it up in the DOC records. And he confessed to me and everybody else in the jail.
And he goes, I know every detail of the case. He told it all to me.
And he goes, and I'm from that area.

Speaker 7 So I recognize, I know some of the people.

Speaker 6 The cellmate this guy said had confessed to the murder was Jeremy Adams.

Speaker 7 I was like, oh my God, what are the odds of this? And, you know, the first thing I did was call, I actually called Barry Sheck at the Innocence Project. I said, Barry, is this hearsay?

Speaker 7 He goes, no, that's a statement against interest. If he actually, and I said to James, I don't want to put you in a bad way.

Speaker 7 Like, if you're, you know, I don't want you to be labeled as somebody who told on somebody who confessed to you.

Speaker 7 He said, no, no, in this case, it doesn't matter because he confessed to so many people and everybody here knows that Quincy ain't the guy. So he goes, I'll sign affidavits.
I'll do whatever you want.

Speaker 7 I don't know the exact number, but there could be as many as 15 people who have come forward either with affidavits or with statements that Jeremy confessed to them.

Speaker 6 And let's not forget that Jessica's best friend, someone who hasn't changed her story over the years, told police that Jessica knew her baby's father had to to be one of two men.

Speaker 6 She had a paternity test done and it came back negative for the first guy. So,

Speaker 6 you know?

Speaker 6 But let's now take a moment and revisit people who did change their stories because that's the crux of the case.

Speaker 7 There were witnesses who have come forward and talked about how the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation and state police threatened them with really terrible things, taking their children away, sending them to prison for the rest of their life, jabbing them with a needle.

Speaker 7 They conducted these very unorthodox interrogations in a hotel instead of at the police station. You know, the whole thing is really pretty grotesque.

Speaker 7 And when you hear, which you will hear, these people come forward and tell their truth,

Speaker 7 the pain is palpable. as they talk about how they were made to lie under these threats.
And they were kids, you know, so

Speaker 7 they were kids. Some of them were troubled.
One was a crack, you know, was addicted to crack. And that's how you end up in this situation.

Speaker 6 Jason hosts his own podcast called Wrongful Conviction. He's the founder of the parent company Lava for Good, a media company that partners with the Innocence Project.

Speaker 6 His team spent several years digging into the case. and the result was a full season of their show Bone Valley.
Go check check it out on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Speaker 6 At first, when the team reached out to interview Victoria Caldwell, she seemed almost afraid to talk about the case. I don't know.

Speaker 38 I'm not allowed to talk about it.

Speaker 34 I don't want to piss these people off.

Speaker 22 They're very powerful. So,

Speaker 22 piss them off in what kind of way?

Speaker 41 What you mean?

Speaker 41 Maybe I should rethink having this conversation.

Speaker 38 They're two very powerful people.

Speaker 6 Eventually, they coaxed Victoria and others to talk.

Speaker 22 I really feel like my,

Speaker 38 I guess my statement that I gave on video would stop

Speaker 38 lots of times and I was told what to say. And people could see the descriptions.

Speaker 23 Who was telling you what to say?

Speaker 22 From Ronnie Lear to the KBI.

Speaker 29 How did they get you to say what they got you to say? What happened?

Speaker 38 They told me they'll stick the needle on my arm on the elevator at the Drury Inn. So it's kind of like Drury Inn in Paducah, Kentucky.

Speaker 6 In case you couldn't understand what she was saying in context, Victoria says they threatened to do all this at the Drury Inn in Paducah, Kentucky. That's the hotel KBI conducted the interviews at.

Speaker 6 Venetia Stubblefield, the peripheral witness who corroborated parts of Victoria's second version of events, signed an affidavit admitting that she gave false testimony at the behest of law enforcement.

Speaker 6 Another witness admitted that she had been willing to testify for money and said that officers threatened to put her in jail or take her kids away if she didn't keep lying.

Speaker 6 And remember, all of these people were implicated by the story. They served their short sentences and years later they've recanted.

Speaker 6 Sounds like a bunch of shitty police work, if you ask me. But hey, what am I other than an internet sleuth?

Speaker 7 They took plea deals because Quincy went to trial first.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 when he was convicted and sentenced to life,

Speaker 7 you know, for the other people, they were looking at a similar fate. And if they were, when they were offered a deal, it's a Sophie's choice, but you can't blame them for taking it.

Speaker 7 This is some small-town stuff. And, you know, if you're looking at

Speaker 7 basically a living death sentence, right?

Speaker 7 And the prosecution certainly in Princey's case asked for him to get the death penalty.

Speaker 7 Then I, you know, that's that's a that's a choice that you can

Speaker 7 I hope nobody that's listening ever has to make that choice, but you can you can understand how that choice could have been made by people who are actually innocent. It happens all the time.

Speaker 7 Well, unsurprisingly, the lowest sentences were the ones who testified for the government.

Speaker 7 Two of them, and there's so many people, there were nine, right?

Speaker 7 And I can't even keep them all straight in my head, but when you hear the podcast, you'll know because that's the awesome power of the government, right?

Speaker 7 They can They can say to you, you know, you give us information on so-and-so, and, you know, we're going to

Speaker 7 make sure things go well for you. So the sentences were, I mean, almost ceremonial in those cases, right? Because

Speaker 7 if that's the right word.

Speaker 6 And the power of the government doesn't stop there in this case.

Speaker 6 Jason's team at Lava for Good and the Kentucky Innocence Project separately uncovered evidence that Victoria Caldwell had been paid by the state and was essentially put in their witness protection program, relocating her to North Carolina and funding her entire lifestyle while the case was being built.

Speaker 6 Records show that the Attorney General's Office and Kentucky State Police were reimbursing her from February 2007 through January of 2008. Almost a year.

Speaker 6 They paid for rent, utilities, groceries, restaurants, gas, car repairs, clothing, phone cards, and even purchases from places like sex shops.

Speaker 8 Yeah.

Speaker 6 Yeah, that's where your taxes are going.

Speaker 6 Believe it or not.

Speaker 29 I read an article from some time ago that there was a rumor that some cop named O'Neal, that name sound familiar.

Speaker 29 Was there ever any monetary exchange between you or him?

Speaker 29 What do you mean monetary?

Speaker 23 Money.

Speaker 29 Did he send you money at all?

Speaker 22 He's always giving me money

Speaker 29 okay when you say money what kind of money like we're talking like a couple hundred bucks just to get by or are we talking a couple grand to help

Speaker 22 more than a couple grand but he's always taking care of me

Speaker 29 is it cash check

Speaker 26 no cash always cash

Speaker 6 you meet in public places or he comes to you how does that work no he comes to my house At trial, when the defense asked about this, KBI downplayed it, acting as if they'd only paid for rent and utilities.

Speaker 6 This wasn't an isolated incident either. Another state witness said officers paid her $100 to make controlled calls.

Speaker 6 Cash for cooperation.

Speaker 6 All while she was in the grips of drug addiction. But all of this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Let's get back to Susan Galbreth and Tom Mangold for the moment.

Speaker 6 Susan was actually the very first person to put Victoria Caldwell in touch with the Kentucky Bureau of Investigation for a second round of questioning.

Speaker 6 She steered the narrative prosecutors eventually ran with, and she had a motive much deeper than just a cursory interest in this case.

Speaker 7 She was in a relationship with the mother of the obvious suspect, Jeremy Adams.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 it seems like she found something to do. I think she was bored and she found this opportunity to become

Speaker 7 famous, important, whatever it was she was after, and at the same time helped to

Speaker 7 steer the cops away from the son of her

Speaker 7 partner relationship, whatever they want to call that, you know, to her lover.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 then, of course, in order to finish that job, job, she had to pin it on somebody else.

Speaker 6 And to think that this woman was allowed behind the crime scene tape, she was given backstage access to the evidence rooms, told authorities who to interview, sat in those very same police interviews, discussed her theories with the Kentucky State Police, and even testified.

Speaker 6 at Quincy's trial. She inserted herself into this crime to a degree that is unprecedented.

Speaker 7 I don't think we'll ever know all of it because there weren't records made of all the conversations.

Speaker 7 But what we do know is that she was given a level of access that is

Speaker 7 confounding to say the least. And not just access, but influence.
She was allowed to steer the investigation. as if she was some senior official empowered to run roughshod over this whole

Speaker 7 thing. And

Speaker 7 all those years later, she starts building this case based entirely on circumstantial evidence and rumors and innuendo.

Speaker 7 And then that takes on a life of its own when the authorities get involved and start getting these people in a room. Again, a room in a hotel.

Speaker 7 It is a hotel, but it's something I don't want to conjure up something fancy. It certainly wasn't anything fancy.

Speaker 7 But why? Why, why, why? I mean, wouldn't you want to, I mean, how basic is it to take someone to the police station and do it there?

Speaker 6 But hotel interviews are really at the bottom of the list when it comes to the issues with this case.

Speaker 7 It's really heartbreaking,

Speaker 7 not just because of what happened to Quincy, who got the worst of it, because he got life without parole, and he's been in for almost a quarter of a century.

Speaker 7 But what happened to these other people, you know, the ones who were forced to testify or the ones who just got caught up in it because of Susan.

Speaker 7 I mean, Jeff Burton, you know, who's who's a white kid

Speaker 7 who got caught up in this. He never met Quincy.
You know, he doesn't know anything about this. He didn't, you know, he wasn't a troubled kid.
He was a good kid. He was a young father making his way.

Speaker 7 But when

Speaker 7 when Susan became convinced that there was a couple of white people involved, she just went searching for some white people that she could sort of rope into this thing.

Speaker 7 And she found out that there was a couple of parties in Mayfield. One of the knights in question, she found out he was at one of the parties, and that was good enough.

Speaker 7 And so literally he knows nothing about this. And he ended up serving,

Speaker 7 you know, many years in prison and still suffering to this day. And the ripple effect of all of this, how it hurts the community, taking him, just to take Jeffrey alone, leaving aside,

Speaker 7 you know, so many of the other people who were wrongly targeted and ultimately so badly hurt.

Speaker 7 You know,

Speaker 7 Venisha, Victoria, Jeff Burton, we talked about, Tamara, Caldwell.

Speaker 7 Each one of those people has people that love them. Some of them had children that they left behind.

Speaker 7 All of them have scars that don't easily heal, you know, from this horrific experience of being betrayed by people who their taxes go to pay

Speaker 7 in service of somebody who skated.

Speaker 6 Quincy was convicted in 2008. He lost his first appeals by 2010.

Speaker 6 After three more attempts to get his case revisited, he was denied.

Speaker 6 For several years now, Jason, his team at Lava for Good, and the Innocence Project have been pulling out all the stops trying to free him.

Speaker 7 I called Joe Kern.

Speaker 12 I spoke to David Cross,

Speaker 7 the dads of the victim and

Speaker 7 the wrongfully convicted man.

Speaker 7 I believe he's wrongfully convicted. Again, listen, make your own judgment.

Speaker 7 And I said, I got to help. And one of the things I've done over the years is try to appeal to governors and even presidents for clemency in situations where I know a wrong has been done.
And

Speaker 7 it's a power that's vested in these people because they are the last

Speaker 7 stopgap in the system that gets it wrong far too often.

Speaker 7 There's that great saying from the English jurist William Blackstone who said, it's better that 10 guilty men go free than that one innocent should suffer.

Speaker 7 And so in this case, I thought, let me try to reach out to the governor. you know, because this has got to change.

Speaker 7 And when you've got the victim's father advocating for the guy who's wrongfully convicted, that's powerful. You know, that should go a long way.

Speaker 7 I feel connected to Kentucky. You know, my wife's father is Muhammad Ali.
So, you know, he's a Louisville.

Speaker 7 So I reached out. I don't know the governor.
I met him only once,

Speaker 7 actually at the Ali Center in Louisville, but only for a minute. But I didn't know him back then.
I'd never met him. But I was able to get somebody in a position of significant power and influence in.

Speaker 7 the highest levels of government, I won't name names, on the phone.

Speaker 7 And I figured he'll give me three or four minutes just to, I don't want to say humor me because there's nothing funny about it, but to, you know, placate me.

Speaker 7 And

Speaker 7 I ended up speaking to this person for 26 minutes. I remember that because I remember looking at my phone and going, damn, that was a long conversation.

Speaker 7 And he was like, oh my God, this is the craziest case. And, you know, Mayfield, Kentucky, there was a tornado there recently.

Speaker 7 And, you know, you know, the mayor and, you know, we're going to get involved. Like this, this has got, you know, he was like, he was almost breathless.

Speaker 7 And I've never had a conversation with a person in a position like that. I've had a lot of conversations, but never with somebody who's like so enthused to get involved and help.

Speaker 7 Usually it's very, you know, monotonal, you know, relatively curt.

Speaker 7 And then he called me back that night at home.

Speaker 7 Kids running around, making noise in the background. He's like, I just want to make sure I got this straight.
And he's going through details of the thing. I'm like, oh my God, I called Mr.
Cross.

Speaker 7 I'm like, I think we're going to get somewhere with this. This is, I mean, I I hate to say that because you never want to raise expectations.
But I was like, this is unbelievable.

Speaker 7 This really seems like they're really interested in this injustice.

Speaker 7 And then he ghosted me.

Speaker 7 Never heard back again. Tried reaching out.

Speaker 7 And I'm the farthest thing from a conspiracy person.

Speaker 7 But one

Speaker 7 might speculate that perhaps

Speaker 26 he

Speaker 7 was

Speaker 7 excitedly talking to somebody else, I don't know who, who said to him,

Speaker 7 back off. Leave that one alone.

Speaker 6 Victoria Caldwell has flipped back and forth over the years, recanting her statements and then turning around and saying that she was actually telling the truth.

Speaker 6 Jason's team uncovered emails between Susan Galbreth and Tom Mangold from all the way back in 2012.

Speaker 6 where Tom wrote that there's a, quote, teeny weeny, itsy bitsy chance we've got got this whole fucking murder story wrong. In public, though, he doesn't want to talk about the case.

Speaker 6 After the Kentucky Innocence Project got involved, CNN covered their progress.

Speaker 6 They reached out to Tom for comment, and he said, quote, if your project is any attempt or reference to the fact that Quincy Cross and all the others who were convicted of Jesse's murder might be innocent, then I want nothing to do with it.

Speaker 6 If it's anything else, I'd be pleased to help.

Speaker 7 Quincy is still in prison. I spoke to him today, actually.
He's excited that we're

Speaker 7 today as we're recording, not today as anyone's listening, as people listen whenever they listen. But

Speaker 7 yes, I spoke to him today. I've spoken to him many times.
He's relentlessly optimistic. He's not bitter.

Speaker 7 He really just wants his story to be heard and he wants justice, not just for himself, but for Jessica. and for the others.

Speaker 7 I've interviewed hundreds of people on the Wrongful Conviction Podcast who've been either, you know, who are either on death row or they're in prison for life or

Speaker 7 they've been freed after serving 10, 20, 44 years more, 48 years like Glenn Simmons in prison. And every one of them is,

Speaker 7 you know,

Speaker 7 optimistic, thoughtful.

Speaker 7 Even, I mean, they exude this sort of grace, you know, and it's just mystifying and inspiring to hear them. And it puts

Speaker 7 it puts gratitude in my attitude and puts any other problems that we all have in perspective.

Speaker 7 There's still some legal remedy. I'm trying to remember what it is, but he does have, yes, he does have some court proceedings still to come.

Speaker 7 There's some discovery being done.

Speaker 7 So follow along. And I believe that there's still

Speaker 7 a strong chance. I have to cling to that belief that he can be exonerated in court.

Speaker 7 But the other

Speaker 7 last

Speaker 7 option is if that's what it takes, then I hope that the governor, this governor, the next governor, will take a hard look at this case and

Speaker 7 see what

Speaker 7 now is clear to anybody who takes a serious look at it, which is that the wrong guy's in prison and he's been in for a very long time.

Speaker 6 For Jessica's parents, the system's failures have a different cost.

Speaker 6 The paperwork, the headlines, the endless retellings, none of it brings their daughter back.

Speaker 19 When they tell you, you know,

Speaker 19 well, something good will come out of this, and things will get better with time. And

Speaker 19 you get to ask my wife, and it's just like it happened last week.

Speaker 29 It don't get better.

Speaker 19 You learn to live with it, but it never gets better.

Speaker 19 We're going to miss her until the day we're gone.

Speaker 29 No doubt about it.

Speaker 19 And so will everybody else in our family. Because she had that big of an impact

Speaker 19 on all of us. And I would say most of her friends.
She was just

Speaker 19 that kind of person.

Speaker 6 The fire that took Jessica Curran's life never really stopped burning. Susan Gobreth reignited the sparks.
Maybe hoping the flames would clear the debris and reveal the truth.

Speaker 6 Or maybe to burn away evidence that pointed towards Jeremy Adams.

Speaker 6 In the end, those flames weren't a tool of justice. They were chaotic, aimless, driven by something other than truth.

Speaker 6 And they, eventually, consumed everything

Speaker 6 in their path.

Speaker 6 That's going to do it for this episode and this year. Thank you so much for joining us.
We'll be back after a short break.

Speaker 7 Mike, what's up, my man?

Speaker 4 This is Ken from Tennessee.

Speaker 6 Listen, first thing I got to say is that as a law enforcement officer, it truly makes my blood boil sometimes when you say that you don't, and people on your show should not talk to cops.

Speaker 27 As much of an advocate as you are for the victims that you portray

Speaker 27 that are led on your show, you say and don't talk to the cops.

Speaker 23 It's totally fast accurate to me.

Speaker 27 But nonetheless, I got to say I was one of those guys who never liked podcasts. I thought they were for weird people who had no good taste in music.
But when I was introduced to your show,

Speaker 27 I was, I got to say, I was into the show.

Speaker 27 Obviously, I drive a lot for my job, so when somebody gets in my car, they hear what's on the radio, the looks like it are pretty astounding.

Speaker 37 So from your law enforcement fan base, I say to you, stay safe and keep up the good work, my dude.

Speaker 27 Thanks.

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