Episode 328

Speaker 1 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 4 You were there when he was killed. No, sir, I was not at his house when that man was murdered, sir.
I can't. This is the kind of shit that gets people in trouble.
Oh my god, I know.

Speaker 2 Hello, and welcome to Sword and Scale episode 328. Let's go.

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Speaker 2 43-year-old Brad McGarry and 30-year-old David Kinney were friends for years.

Speaker 2 They met while working at a local coal mine in the small town of Ohio called Bel-Air.

Speaker 2 Sounds nice, right?

Speaker 2 Don't get ahead of yourself, though. This is Ohio.

Speaker 2 Bel-Air sits along the Ohio River and borders West Virginia, another stunning location, filled with PhDs.

Speaker 2 It's a place built on hard work, traditional values, and coal.

Speaker 2 Yeah, coal. The thing that's probably powering your iPhone.
For generations, the mines and the coal in it shaped everything in Bel Air.

Speaker 2 Those mines offered steady work for anyone willing to face the challenges of being underground all day long. It's dangerous work.
Probably worth every penny and then some.

Speaker 2 But by 2017, these jobs were disappearing. Mines were shutting down and operations were scaled back.
Work became harder to find and harder to keep.

Speaker 2 For men like Brad McGarry and David Kinney, getting and keeping a job in the mines made them feel lucky. This is Detective Ryan Aller of Belmont County.

Speaker 3 Belair is one of our bigger municipalities in Belmont County. I wouldn't say it's a high crime rate, but compared to other parts of the county, there's a good bit of drug activity down there.

Speaker 3 There's been homicides in Belair before, but it's been quite some time.

Speaker 3 So a case like this is very shocking to our community.

Speaker 2 Brad McGarry wasn't just a friend to David. He was a family friend, sharing holidays, family dinners, and afternoons at each other's homes.

Speaker 2 To David's kids, Brad was known as Uncle Brad because they loved and trusted him. Brad was single, so he appreciated the opportunity to feel part of a full-blown family.

Speaker 2 And both David and his wife Sherry were happy to have Uncle Brad.

Speaker 2 Sherry felt almost like she had two responsible men in her life. She was a young single mom when she and David met.

Speaker 2 David was young too, but in no time they married and he became a father to her three kids. By 2017, they'd been together for 10 years, and Brad had been part of the family picture for about six years.

Speaker 2 On May 7th, 2017, David, Sherry, and their 13-year-old daughter drove half an hour from their town of Brilliant to Brad's Bel Air home, a 1950s ranch sitting almost at the end of a residential dead-end street.

Speaker 2 They were stopping by to give Brad a weed trimmer. It was a small gift to repay for some things he'd done for them.
Brad was like that. He was a really helpful, good friend.
Those are hard to come by.

Speaker 2 So they pull into the driveway, the gravel crunching under the truck's tires. It's a typical quiet Sunday afternoon.
Sherry shifts in her seat and takes her seatbelt off while David exits the truck.

Speaker 2 As they're doing this, they immediately notice that the kitchen door is open. Just slightly, but it's not normal.
It's not like Brad to just leave it open like that.

Speaker 2 David scrunches his face, squinting towards the house, but their 13-year-old daughter is excited to see Uncle Brad, so she darts from the truck.

Speaker 2 Stay here, Sherry says automatically, but the girl's already halfway to the porch, where she waits, but peers inside.

Speaker 2 Meanwhile, David starts calling Brad because he's afraid something is off. Brad's phone rings, unanswered.

Speaker 2 Sherry watches David try again, holding his phone up and listening to empty ringing on the other end.

Speaker 2 She follows her daughter up the steps, and her adrenaline is pumping. The door swings inward with a soft creak under her hand.
Inside, she sees chaos.

Speaker 2 Yanked open drawers and gaping cabinets. Papers and belongings were scattered like someone had ransacked the place in a hurry.
At that point, Sherry is scared and reaches for David's arm.

Speaker 2 Go get your gun, she whispers. David doesn't argue.
He turns back towards the truck, moving fast but controlled. Sherry stands frozen in the doorway, one arm thrown out to hold her daughter back.

Speaker 2 Her daughter looks at her in sheer terror. What's happening, Mom?

Speaker 2 David comes back with his firearm at his side. His face is tight and pale.
She's not used to seeing her tall, rugged husband in this state.

Speaker 2 He tells her to stay there. He's going inside to check.
Sherry doesn't move, gripping her daughter's shoulders. She wants to run out, but she can't make herself move.

Speaker 2 She's frozen, like a rabbit in headlights. David's footsteps creak on the basement stairs.
A second passes, then

Speaker 2 another.

Speaker 2 Then,

Speaker 2 suddenly, she hears his panicked voice from the basement.

Speaker 2 Call 911!

Speaker 2 He shouts. Stay here.

Speaker 2 Stay here.

Speaker 2 What's this, Road?

Speaker 7 What's this road? Call County, 911. Where is your emergency? Hi.

Speaker 8 We have an emergency. I don't know.

Speaker 8 What was this? Stay there.

Speaker 4 Where are you at?

Speaker 8 We in West Belarus, I don't even know the road right next to Fruzi. She came all the way back and up the hill.

Speaker 8 Okay, what's going on?

Speaker 8 I don't even know. You don't know what's going on?

Speaker 8 Where's he at?

Speaker 8 Oh, my God.

Speaker 8 My husband is hot and bad.

Speaker 4 What?

Speaker 8 Ma'am.

Speaker 4 Ma'am.

Speaker 8 We're at West Belair. We came to visit my husband's friend, and his back door was cracked open,

Speaker 8 and he wasn't answering his phone so we came in the house and he's in his basement.

Speaker 2 The dispatcher tries to make sense of what's unfolding on Wagner Avenue, but Sherry is struggling to process it herself.

Speaker 8 Okay. Oh my God.
Okay, calm down.

Speaker 8 Did you say he's dead?

Speaker 8 I think so.

Speaker 4 Oh my God. I think so.

Speaker 7 Okay, ma'am. Does it look like something happened to him? Does it look like he fell?

Speaker 4 He's all over.

Speaker 8 He's on the floor. There's one everywhere

Speaker 8 okay what is your name my name's is sherry kinney sherry kinney yeah his back door was cracked open okay my husband looked in okay there was stuff all the way

Speaker 8 in the kitchen okay sherry i need you i need you to try to find me an address can you do that oh gosh i don't even know what stream was just

Speaker 8 for these markets

Speaker 8 What's the address on the house?

Speaker 2 The questions keep coming from the operator, but the whole scene is disorienting for Sherry.

Speaker 2 She's still trying to make sense of the chaos around her when the most critical question of all waits in the background.

Speaker 2 Is he dead?

Speaker 8 Oh my god, he's just laying there.

Speaker 4 Okay,

Speaker 4 we hurt.

Speaker 8 Listen to me, okay?

Speaker 8 Does the back door look like it was forced open? His kitchen door.

Speaker 8 His kitchen door? Does it look like it was just cracked open?

Speaker 8 Yeah. It wasn't forced open.

Speaker 8 I don't even know.

Speaker 8 Oh, Awa.

Speaker 8 Go in here. Okay.
It was just cracked. I don't know if it was forced entering.
Jerry.

Speaker 4 Oh, I know. Jerry.

Speaker 7 Jerry.

Speaker 8 Is he breathing?

Speaker 8 Is he breathing?

Speaker 8 I don't think he's breathing.

Speaker 2 It was looking like they were too late, and Brad was indeed dead.

Speaker 2 But how did this happen?

Speaker 2 Did he fall down the stairs, or

Speaker 2 was there a struggle?

Speaker 8 What is his name?

Speaker 8 Brad McGarry. Brad McGarry.

Speaker 8 Brad McGarry.

Speaker 8 Okay, is that your husband?

Speaker 8 My husband's freaking out. Yes, I started.
Okay.

Speaker 8 Okay. All right.
Oh, he has a oh my god. He has a run-cough wound in the back of his head.
He has a gunshot wound. Okay,

Speaker 8 Sherry. Sherry.

Speaker 8 Sherry.

Speaker 8 Oh,

Speaker 8 Sherry.

Speaker 8 I need you to calm down.

Speaker 8 Is there a gun near him?

Speaker 8 I didn't see one. Okay, ask your husband if he saw a gun lying on the floor.

Speaker 8 No, I don't see one.

Speaker 8 You don't see a gun? No, I don't see a gun. Okay.

Speaker 8 All right, I need you guys, listen, I need you and your husband to back out of the residence and wait outside for the officers. Do you hear me? All right.
Okay. Stay on.

Speaker 8 Both of you need to go wait outside.

Speaker 4 We're outside.

Speaker 8 Okay.

Speaker 2 There were a lot of unanswered questions. Apparently, Brad knew they were going to stop by, and David spoke with him on that very day.

Speaker 2 But then he didn't answer his phone, so the Kinneys were already on alert.

Speaker 2 Brad was good at communicating, and it just wasn't like him to ignore calls.

Speaker 8 Okay, I know you're upset, and I know that this is a horrible, horrible thing, okay?

Speaker 8 I need you to try to calm down for me, okay?

Speaker 8 No.

Speaker 8 When was the last time you guys spoke with him?

Speaker 8 When was the last time you guys spoke with him? When's the last time you talked to him, DJ?

Speaker 8 He talked home earlier. He was on the, he went to a wedding over the weekend.
He was on his lead from his mom to talk to him.

Speaker 8 That was today?

Speaker 8 Yeah. That was earlier today, and he told him that we would be coming down, and he said, just come down whenever.

Speaker 4 Okay. All right.

Speaker 8 Do you remember what time earlier today you spoke with him? What time was it that you talked to him? Do you remember?

Speaker 8 It said it'd be on his cell phone. Okay.
All I know is we, uh.

Speaker 8 Well, I asked my husband and he asked his kids. He's curious.

Speaker 8 Do you have your gun? Just think Brad wasn't answering his phone and his kid was yelling and he wasn't saying anything.

Speaker 8 So he went to his truck and got his dominant case, you know, because he was scared of himself.

Speaker 8 It's not like Brad wants to answer his phone. Okay.
And then,

Speaker 8 oh, God. Does your husband still have his gun out? Hunter approach on his side, yeah.
Okay. Because the kids still carry just, you know, carried protection for us, but

Speaker 8 meaning that he wasn't answering, and the door was cracked open. We, you know, he got it because he was scared himself.

Speaker 2 Remember, kids, if you're ever at a crime scene and you have a gun on you, let the 911 operator know for the safety of everyone.

Speaker 8 Okay, the officer is out there, okay?

Speaker 8 Yeah. Make sure you tell the officer that your husband has a gun on his side, okay?

Speaker 8 Just all right.

Speaker 8 Okay,

Speaker 8 no, we just want to let you know he has

Speaker 8 a gun on it.

Speaker 4 Okay, baby.

Speaker 8 All right, thank you. Okay, talk with the officer, okay?

Speaker 2 As first responders secured the scene, the question wasn't how Brad McGarry died, it was who

Speaker 2 would want him dead.

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Speaker 2 In May of 2017, Brad McGarry, a resident in the quiet town of Belair, Ohio, was found dead in the basement of his home, face down, surrounded by blood, with what appeared to be a gunshot wound to his head.

Speaker 3 My name is Ryan Aller. I'm the chief of investigations at the Belmont County Sheriff's Office.
I've been with the Sheriff's Office since 1996. I've been a detective since 2005.

Speaker 3 You know, Brad was

Speaker 2 Brad was a coal miner.

Speaker 3 He had a couple other careers. He seemed to be happy with that job.

Speaker 3 He was very well liked by his friends and family. They say that that he had a very outgoing personality,

Speaker 3 kind of lit up any room he walked into, loved being the center of attention.

Speaker 3 Nobody I talked to, not a single soul, had a single bad thing to say about him, which I can't always say about the victims that

Speaker 3 we have.

Speaker 3 One of the things any good detective will do is

Speaker 3 They try to get to know their victims, even if

Speaker 3 they're deceased. And that's one of the

Speaker 3 most important things to do. Try to get inside the head of your victim, try to know them.

Speaker 3 And, you know, sometimes you don't really like your victims.

Speaker 3 They're not the best people in the world.

Speaker 2 But, you know, I think I would have liked Brad.

Speaker 2 It was his friend David Kinney and his wife Sherry who made the discovery.

Speaker 2 As detectives started to dig deeper, they uncovered parts of Brad's life that no one had talked about, and people who might have wanted him gone.

Speaker 2 One of the first leads that came in was from a local cab driver. He told police that a woman he knew named Courtney had asked him for a ride to Wagner Avenue.

Speaker 2 Her plan, she said, was to rob a man she claimed had contacted her through a Craigslist modeling ad.

Speaker 2 According to this guy, the man was going to give her $500 for nude pictures of her. But the deal changed when he added that he'd like to see the pictures of her three-year-old child as well.

Speaker 2 Courtney saved his number in her phone under the name, Baby Raper.

Speaker 2 She told the cab driver the man was sick and that he deserved whatever was coming.

Speaker 2 It was the kind of lead investigators just couldn't ignore. But when they interviewed her further, Courtney said she didn't go through with it.

Speaker 2 The cab driver said he refused to drive her because he'd been drinking that night. She said she deleted the messages, messages, but she gave the police the man's phone number.

Speaker 2 And when they traced the number, it led them right back to Bel Air.

Speaker 2 Close enough that police had to wonder, was Brad McGarry living a life no one knew about? Was he indeed the baby raper on her phone? Or were they just chasing the wrong lead? entirely.

Speaker 2 Detectives started digging and discovered that Brad would probably be the last person who would ask for naked pictures. Courtney's story fell apart, too.

Speaker 2 Phone numbers didn't match. She gave the wrong street, and she was just kind of a sketchy witness all around.

Speaker 2 With that lead fading fast, detectives turned to the people who knew Brad best, starting with Brad and Sherry.

Speaker 2 When was the last time they saw Brad? Well, it was just a day before.

Speaker 2 A Saturday.

Speaker 4 What'd you guys do when you got there? Uh Brad made pizza and we all had some pizza. Went down in the basement, was talking about the the two spare rooms in the back.

Speaker 4 He was planning on we tore all the drywall out of the one room, piled a bunch of stuff up in there and we were talking about how to dry lock it and you know start getting stuff done because he had a company wanting to come in to put rug down and stuff and hung out down there and BS about that, come upstairs, played with the dogs, you know, my son and I just we just hung out, the normal thing you can do at your buddy's house your son hang out there a lot uh he goes with me what's he do while you're there usually just hangs out with us okay

Speaker 2 i got a house full of girls he's the only boy so a lot of times it's hey dad can i go understood that was saturday may 6th they hung out and then brad took off for a wedding that evening when it was over he stayed with his family overnight and he called David just to check in.

Speaker 4 He called me that night when he got back to his mom's house. and we just BS'd about the wedding.

Speaker 4 And then he called me the next day.

Speaker 4 Did he stay at his mom's house? Yes, yes. Or at his grand mom's or his grandmother's house.
I'm not sure which house he stayed at.

Speaker 4 Now we're on a Sunday, right? Yes.

Speaker 2 On Sunday, the day of Brad's murder, Brad was excited to get home. The Kinneys had told him they'd be bringing him a gift.

Speaker 4 As I was out running around,

Speaker 4 me and my wife did our normal Sunday thing throughout the the day and had lunch. What's that?

Speaker 4 He texted me again.

Speaker 4 Hey, or hello.

Speaker 4 I texted, hey, he said, don't forget my surprise. I said, we'll be bringing it out.
When was that? Probably about.

Speaker 4 Well, he texted me. I would say it was

Speaker 4 probably

Speaker 4 one something.

Speaker 4 And I didn't get right back to him right away. I think by the time I actually got back to texting him back, it was like three o'clock, quarter after three or something like that.

Speaker 4 I told him we'll be bringing it out. And I told him, you know, stop by, drove by earlier, no one's home.
Call me whenever you get home, we'll come out.

Speaker 4 So where were you and your wife at Sunday afternoon? Um we went to Chinese restaurant, got some lunch after we hung out at the house.

Speaker 4 What Chinese restaurant? In Steubenville. Are you guys close to Steubenville? Yeah.
I'll try to get the geography there. Yes.
Like I said. 15 minutes away.

Speaker 4 We're like 15 minutes south of Steubenville.

Speaker 2 She and David had breakfast with the kids, then ran a quick errand to stop and pick up hair dye at Sally's Beauty in Steubenville.

Speaker 2 Steubenville? Am I saying that right? Who cares? It's Ohio. Anyway, they came home, and shortly after, David said he had to go help a friend whose car had broken down.

Speaker 2 And he wanted to stop by Rural King, a farm supply store, just to look around.

Speaker 2 Then David brought up the weed trimmer.

Speaker 4 And then

Speaker 4 I talked to a friend of mine

Speaker 4 and then I went and I went and was gonna go to Royal King, look at some trailers, get a truck. I did a little bit of running.
Did you go there? Yeah.

Speaker 4 We did uh I just did my running I wanted to do.

Speaker 4 So you drove from your home in Brilliant to Royal King, yes, sir. Was your wife with you? No sir.
Okay.

Speaker 4 And this was probably about

Speaker 4 140, uh maybe about quarter till two.

Speaker 4 okay

Speaker 4 and uh

Speaker 4 and I left

Speaker 4 back home by

Speaker 2 you went back to Brilliant yeah I was back home I think it was like three I was back home about three o'clock when David got back home his wife was dying her hair they decided to drive back over to Brad's thinking he'd be home from the wedding by then

Speaker 2 His daughter wanted to go with them because Brad's dog had a litter of puppies she hadn't seen. And Sherry wanted Brad to see her new hair color.
Why, you ask?

Speaker 2 Would a male family friend be interested in her hair?

Speaker 2 Oh, well, that's easy. You see, despite the fact that he now worked in a mine, he had a job before that.

Speaker 2 He was a hairdresser. And yes, Brad

Speaker 2 was gay.

Speaker 2 Since the Kinneys knew this and the detective was asking about Brad's relationships, David had this to say.

Speaker 2 Should be a minute.

Speaker 2 Richard

Speaker 2 or Richie?

Speaker 4 Is he like a fuck buddy or a boyfriend? I think it was more along the lines of just a fucking buddy.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 And

Speaker 4 that's who he was with recently? I don't know if he was with him recently. I just know that they would

Speaker 4 probably

Speaker 4 call him

Speaker 4 when he wanted him to come over.

Speaker 4 Were you ever there when he came over?

Speaker 4 I think I was there once when he came by. What'd he look like?

Speaker 4 Medium height,

Speaker 4 athletic built,

Speaker 4 some tattoos.

Speaker 2 And then there was a young guy named Scotty.

Speaker 2 Friends and family described Scotty as Brad's ex, someone he was involved with not long before the murder. According to them, it didn't end well.

Speaker 2 Scotty had a drug problem and legal issues, and Brad didn't need that. in his life.

Speaker 2 Scotty wasn't happy when they broke up and even made some veiled threats. It looked like detectives might have found their suspect.

Speaker 2 But when they tracked Scotty down, he was already in jail, locked up for a probation violation. And that's where he was for the whole weekend of murder.
Whatever happened to Brad, it wasn't Scotty.

Speaker 2 The more detectives questioned David, the more they found out about Brad and his relationships.

Speaker 2 Investigators had already spoken with Brad's friends and family, and they all hinted at yet another romantic involvement. Someone Brad talked incessantly about during the weekend of the wedding.

Speaker 2 But David didn't seem to be aware of this person, or at least he didn't let on that he knew.

Speaker 4 I wouldn't even know Brad. Oh my.

Speaker 4 Eight years.

Speaker 4 My daughter was.

Speaker 4 Two when we first met.

Speaker 4 Where did you meet Brad?

Speaker 4 Coal mining classes.

Speaker 4 We carpooled. Would you say you were his best friend? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 He got real close with me. Our families got real close.
We did

Speaker 4 holidays and gatherings and everything together. Your wife, too? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 He came over for like what, Christmas and stuff? Christmas, Thanksgiving. He certainly did the same with him.

Speaker 4 What's your kids calling? Uncle Brad.

Speaker 2 This was a breaking point for David. His kids called Brad Uncle.
He was part of the family, and he was David's best friend.

Speaker 2 The numbness was wearing off for David now, and the realization was setting in that Brad was gone forever.

Speaker 2 The detective had obviously seen people cry before, but it seemed like David had been holding a whole lot of tears back for some reason.

Speaker 2 He was a big, lumberjack-looking guy, at least six feet tall, but in the police station, he was reduced to the sobs of a child over the loss of his best friend.

Speaker 4 You guys were pretty close, weren't you? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 What, uh.

Speaker 4 How close were you and Brad? Very close. How close were you guys? We were very close.

Speaker 2 Have you ever lost a best friend? I'm sure it's really hard. But being best friends with someone and being really close to them are two kind of very different things.

Speaker 4 Dean, you said

Speaker 4 stuff on your fence, a little.

Speaker 4 little questionable. Yes, sir.
Kind of sounds like you and Brad were boyfriend and boyfriend. Oh, no, sir.
We weren't boyfriend and boyfriend. It was.

Speaker 4 Kind of a shock to us.

Speaker 4 You guys have sex together.

Speaker 4 There's a few times in the past where,

Speaker 4 you know, he's attempted a lot and we've

Speaker 4 kind of

Speaker 4 fooled around a little bit in the past. Okay.

Speaker 2 But was it okay?

Speaker 2 David was married with kids, a wife, and a life built around routine and appearances. Brad was his best friend.
According to detectives, that part didn't matter. This wasn't about judgment.

Speaker 2 it was about honesty.

Speaker 4 This is between us, okay? Yes, sir. There's some stuff on your phone.

Speaker 4 My wife doesn't

Speaker 4 fool around before. I mean, that was.
When was the last time you guys fooled around? It's

Speaker 4 been a while. It hasn't been recently.
I know that. Is that what's on your phone?

Speaker 4 The guy. The video you took of the guys having sex?

Speaker 4 Is that Brad and you? Or?

Speaker 4 Video I took. Yeah, it's on your phone.

Speaker 4 I don't know. The

Speaker 4 machine we use is. Yes, sir.
I understand. It brings all the devices and stuff.
Well, it sucks a whole phone out. Even the stuff he deleted.
Yes, sir, I understand. There's some

Speaker 4 text messages, too. Yes, sir, I understand.

Speaker 2 The text messages paint a picture of a whole lot more than friendship. Put it that way.
It was a very deep, deep friendship, if you catch my drift. They were fucking, basically.

Speaker 2 Not only did David try to minimize the activities in their relationship, but he also denied that these activities were sex.

Speaker 4 When's the last time you had sex with him?

Speaker 4 We never had sex.

Speaker 4 We would just

Speaker 4 fool around with each other. It's like like some each other.
He would jerk me off, and I would jerk him off, and he would

Speaker 4 look on me. Okay.

Speaker 4 I never had a bad blow, Job.

Speaker 4 Be ashamed about it. Are you ashamed about it?

Speaker 4 I'm sorry, but

Speaker 4 what?

Speaker 4 That's about

Speaker 4 what doesn't know. I'm sorry.

Speaker 4 Was Brad in love with you, David?

Speaker 4 I couldn't tell you that he was in love with me. I mean, we did the whole,

Speaker 4 all right, bud, love you, love you too, kind of thing. Like, you could ask my son when we left Saturday.

Speaker 2 So they told each other casually, love you, bud.

Speaker 2 I don't know, but maybe that's what bros do in 2017. I'm really not sure.

Speaker 2 I'm really too old for that. But all the other stuff,

Speaker 2 I'll tell you right now, that's not something bros do.

Speaker 2 Pretty sure. Pretty sure about that one.

Speaker 2 The next question the detective asked was even more personal and would be an essential part of the investigation.

Speaker 4 There's a

Speaker 4 used condom in his trash can that's going to the lab.

Speaker 4 Hey, sir, I got a feeling your DNA is gonna be on that condom. Oh, no, sir.
Damn.

Speaker 4 You sure? Yes, sir. Never? No, sir.

Speaker 2 So Brad and David may have been fooling around, to put it lightly. But DNA analysis confirmed he was telling the truth.
The contents of the condoms were someone else's.

Speaker 2 Maybe Richie, a guy Brad would call sometimes for company. And it wasn't like Brad was slutting around.
In fact, he didn't want another boyfriend. He wanted David.

Speaker 2 But David asked him to find boyfriends from time to time, almost like decoys, to keep people from knowing about the two of them.

Speaker 2 So the police would check into this Richie lead and anyone else who might have been there recently. But for now, the detectives would squeeze as much as they could out of David.

Speaker 4 Do you ever tell you you had feelings for him?

Speaker 4 It was a while back you came out, and you know, it was me and my wife both.

Speaker 4 You know, my wife even knows that you come out and say, At one point in time, I did have feelings for him, but he said, I understand that you're married and have kids.

Speaker 4 And my wife was part of that whole situation.

Speaker 4 Does she know you guys ever did anything together? When was the last time you guys did do anything together?

Speaker 4 Um,

Speaker 4 it's been a little while.

Speaker 2 When asked to clarify, it turns out that a little little means a few weeks. If you believe him, that is.

Speaker 2 And when asked the burning question, David said that one thing was off limits. At least that's what he said.

Speaker 2 Then again, he lied a lot. To his wife and kid.

Speaker 2 To everyone, actually.

Speaker 4 Never had any butt sex? No, sir. The one thing that was kinda

Speaker 4 big is that he tried to get me, and I told him I didn't want to.

Speaker 4 He tried to

Speaker 4 do him in the butt?

Speaker 4 No, he just asked me to

Speaker 4 have sex. Oh.

Speaker 4 No, never.

Speaker 4 No, sir. Okay.

Speaker 4 Well,

Speaker 4 so you sure it's not going to be your DNA on that card? No, sir. I mean, you didn't realize that it is or it isn't.

Speaker 2 The detective was good at making David relax. Probably not as good as Brad was, but I digress.
He needed all the information to get to the bottom of what was becoming a mystery.

Speaker 2 No detail was untouchable, as personal and as explicit as it might be. But there was one thing that David was particularly concerned about.
His wife finding out.

Speaker 2 And this was odd, because all of Brad's friends seemed to think she already knew about her husband's affair with him.

Speaker 4 I don't know who would have told you that she knows four different people, unrelated. No, sir.
Brad told them.

Speaker 4 No, sir. Brad told them this.
No, sir. Brad lost all that weight because he wanted to keep you.
No, sir. My wife has no idea about this.
I see. Brad wanted you to leave her? No, sir.

Speaker 4 He's even told me before, like, I understand you're not going to leave your wife and kids.

Speaker 2 This interview made soap operas seem boring.

Speaker 2 So, Brad is in love with David, and David is married to a woman with kids. David and Brad are best friends, though, and David appreciates the friendship as well as the favors Brad does for him.

Speaker 2 Cookouts, holidays, and barbecues, a little smoke, and a lot of heat.

Speaker 2 But the interrogation room was a pressure cooker, and the detective was about to crank it up to 11.

Speaker 2 David was brought in as a witness, but he was starting to look like something else.

Speaker 4 No, sir, you show me that picture. I could guarantee you.
I wish you would. That's not coming.
A picture of it is coming. I'll show you.
It's you.

Speaker 4 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 But it's you.

Speaker 4 I mean, do you think I'm making this shit up? No, sir, but I've never taken any pictures of me having sex with somebody. I have pictures on my phone of me fucking my wife.

Speaker 2 David David was telling the truth about that. The picture the detective was describing happened to be a picture of David having sex with his wife.
Not a man.

Speaker 2 Easy to...

Speaker 2 mistake, I guess. Depending on the angle.

Speaker 2 Yikes.

Speaker 2 So far, David hadn't confessed. The killer may have been someone else, but David still had some explaining to do.
And it was complicated when he had so much more to hide.

Speaker 4 Listen, you drove by, he wasn't home. How long were you there? I wasn't there that long.

Speaker 4 How long?

Speaker 4 I could, I don't know. This is...
Oh, my.

Speaker 4 You're telling me you just drove by.

Speaker 4 Did you stop at all? I drove by the house. I pulled off.
He was not home.

Speaker 4 We're talking seconds, minutes. A couple minutes? That's it.
Yes, sir. I even sat there on my phone.
I sat there on my phone.

Speaker 2 David said this occurred after he went to Rural King. He stopped by Brad's, waited around for a few minutes, and then went home.

Speaker 2 You guys really took

Speaker 2 David.

Speaker 2 You guys really think? Seriously?

Speaker 4 I'm not going to tell you I think.

Speaker 4 David, look at me. I'm going to tell you I know.

Speaker 4 I knew you had something to do with Rats. I don't have a boo.

Speaker 4 What else could it be? Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 Oh, my God.

Speaker 4 Yes, sir. I understand how this looks.
I've known the man eight years. Right now, they're GPS.

Speaker 4 GPS of your whole day. I've known the man eight years.
How long you were at that house?

Speaker 4 I'm gonna tell you right now, this is your chance to get in front of this. Yes, sir.
You're not the type of guy that would do something like that. No, sir, I would not do that.

Speaker 4 There's gotta be something to it. There's gotta be a reason.
Oh my god, I would not do this. I would not do this.
Dave, you're a father. Yes, sir.
You're a husband. Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 You can get in front of this and tell me what the hell happened. For I gotta put it together.
Oh my god. We got it all.
It's all on the phone. I know, sir.

Speaker 4 We're there.

Speaker 4 We know exactly

Speaker 4 when he was killed. Yes, sir, I know.
You were there when he was killed. No, sir, I was not at his house when that man was murdered, sir.
I can't. This is the kind of shit that gets people in trouble.

Speaker 4 Oh my god, I know.

Speaker 4 Gutter had to get with it, but. Sir, what do you want me? I'll tell you anything.
I don't know what happened.

Speaker 4 Oh my god. What aren't you telling me? But there's nothing I'm not telling you.
I did not kill Brad. I did not kill a brad.

Speaker 4 Oh my gosh, no. Dude, what the hell's going on?

Speaker 2 I don't know about the rest of you fellow cis males out there, but listening to Mr. Mackey here wail uncontrollably is a little

Speaker 2 uncomfortable. Either David was hiding something huge or he was the killer.

Speaker 2 Either way, what are the awards soap operas give out? The daytime Emmys?

Speaker 2 David gets a daytime Emmy.

Speaker 2 Remember how a minute ago he said, I'll tell you everything?

Speaker 2 He was just about to do that.

Speaker 4 But what I saw there, what I read, what I've been trained to read,

Speaker 4 what I saw, what I believe, is somebody panicked and opened all the drawers in the house to make it look like something and was like, shit, shit, shit, shit. What do I do? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 But don't you look me straight in the eye. You and I, I'm going to tell you, if you had anything to do with Brad's death, we will

Speaker 4 bring you

Speaker 4 to jail. I know.
So listen to me now and listen to me cool like you never listened to anybody in your whole life. You understand? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 I'm probably going to get a lot of grief over this, but I got a theory.

Speaker 3 I think it might have been an accident.

Speaker 2 David is unraveling. But even now, he denies that he killed Brad.

Speaker 2 Instead, he starts to talk about that day.

Speaker 2 And now it sounds like maybe there's more to this than anyone realized.

Speaker 4 When Brad called me,

Speaker 4 he wanted me to meet up with him at his house before me and the wife and kids came out. Great.
So I went to his house and I sat there and I waited on him and I waited on him.

Speaker 4 And he shows up.

Speaker 4 He had

Speaker 4 another guy with him.

Speaker 4 I don't know who he was. I don't know his name.

Speaker 4 I swear it on everything that's fucking holy right now.

Speaker 4 What happened? He was.

Speaker 4 They get out of the car.

Speaker 4 I go walking over. Francis

Speaker 4 unloaded the back of his BMW.

Speaker 4 And what happened? This is the horror part, isn't it?

Speaker 4 David, let it go. I can't.
Look at me. Let it go.

Speaker 4 Let it off that chest.

Speaker 4 You'll feel better, I guarantee you. God.

Speaker 4 You heard a gunshot?

Speaker 4 You heard a gunshot? Yes, sir. Then what happened? I went under deck my car.
Uh-huh.

Speaker 4 And the guy came running out of the garage. Okay.
And he got into Brad's BMW. Okay.

Speaker 4 And then I left. Oh.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 Okay. I was so scared.

Speaker 4 It's okay.

Speaker 4 He knew. He knew what I looked like.

Speaker 4 My vehicle was there. I did not know what to do.

Speaker 2 At one point, after Detective Valar hears about the third person, he turns towards the camera and makes a what the fuck kind of face.

Speaker 3 So one of the first stories he gave me was, oh, well, I was there and this mysterious person

Speaker 3 was with. Brad and I heard a gunshot, so I left.

Speaker 2 And I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 Well, David I said so you hear a gunshot your dear friend's inside you think something's going on so you leave you go home you get your wife and kid and come back and he's like oh well this is what happened so then he's like well I was in the basement and this guy who got out of Brad's car and

Speaker 3 you know uh he just went crazy and he shot Brad and he put a gun to my head and told me if I said anything I'm next I'm like, okay.

Speaker 3 So

Speaker 3 you go home, you leave there, this mysterious one-armed man,

Speaker 3 and he didn't really have one arm in the story. That's a that's a reference to the fugitive.
I said, so

Speaker 2 he says, I said, so, so this guy kills Brad, tells him he's going to kill you, and you leave.

Speaker 3 He's like, yeah. I was like, so you go home and get your family and come back to find Brad's body? Why?

Speaker 2 It was still possible that David had just been a bystander, but with every new detail, that was less and less likely.

Speaker 4 So, quarter till 10 to 10. Oh, God, oh my god, I kept saying, I need to call the cops, I need to call the cops, I need to call the cops, I didn't know what happened.
Look at me, I'm a cop.

Speaker 4 You're telling me now. Oh, my God,

Speaker 4 do you know why this guy shot

Speaker 4 Brad? No, sir. What did Brad say to this guy? Oh my god, did you know him anything?

Speaker 2 It was time to call David out on his

Speaker 2 bullshit.

Speaker 4 Now we got it when our man that shows up that

Speaker 4 David, the evidence

Speaker 4 that this guy wasn't there. There was where did he go? Did he find him?

Speaker 4 We got the show out. What? No, sir.
I swear to God, sir.

Speaker 4 I swear to God.

Speaker 4 Oh my god. This is almost like you come down on me now.
Well, because you did it. No, sir.
I did not kill my fucking best friend. Hey, David.

Speaker 4 Listen, like I told you, I was well with you there for a while. Sir, I did not kill my best friend.
You're kind of insulting me. I did not kill him.
I swear you could, sir. I don't know.

Speaker 4 No, sir. You sure? Yes, sir.
I'm gonna have to go ask her. No, sir, that's fine.

Speaker 2 The detective was using every tactic he had, and still, David insisted that he wasn't Brad's killer.

Speaker 4 I mean, let's love each other.

Speaker 2 What the fuck, indeed. I mean, you can do whatever you want, and I hope you have the right to do whatever you want, and all of the rights that everyone else has, of course.
But

Speaker 2 still.

Speaker 2 Ew!

Speaker 2 Right?

Speaker 2 Next, he points out that the chief of police lives on Brad Street and happens to have cameras everywhere.

Speaker 2 He tells Brad that if he pulls out that footage, he's pretty sure he'll see a BMW pull into the driveway, and Brad will be in it, but the seat next to him will be empty.

Speaker 2 He had just given David numerous opportunities to be truthful.

Speaker 2 His life actually depended on it. But David just wouldn't be straight with him.
Pun intended.

Speaker 4 I'm not talking because I like to hear you talk. I mean, this is serious goddamn shit.
You

Speaker 4 got to see that the things you keep telling me. And listen, I'm at the point now.

Speaker 4 I don't think that you're telling me this stuff because you care about what I think.

Speaker 4 I'm going to tell you something. I still hold on to hook.
You're not.

Speaker 4 an ass.

Speaker 4 I'm thinking you can't admit it to yourself what happened. Because you immediately made up this grandiose story right away and you believed it.
You believed it. You made yourself believe it.

Speaker 4 Because you can't live with yourself about what happened. Because he was your best friend and you loved him.
He was more than your friend. He was your heart, wasn't he?

Speaker 4 Me and Brad loved each other, bro. You loved you.
He was my heart.

Speaker 4 You loved this man, and there's no shame in it. You understand?

Speaker 4 There ain't no shame in loving somebody. No matter what color they are, they got a dick or three pussies.
It doesn't matter. You love them, you love them.

Speaker 2 Those are some pearls of wisdom right there.

Speaker 2 Finally, it seemed like David was ready to confront himself and tell the detectives what actually happened.

Speaker 4 Tell me what happened.

Speaker 4 Get in front of it.

Speaker 4 Me and Brad,

Speaker 4 we were really close. You know, we I loved him.

Speaker 4 Not like I do my wife, you know what I mean? But I know.

Speaker 4 I love him.

Speaker 4 What happened? I want you to know before

Speaker 4 I didn't shoot him.

Speaker 4 I did not shoot him. Tell me what happened.

Speaker 4 Somebody did shoot him. Tell me what happened.

Speaker 2 David tells them that while he's at Brad's, a man he doesn't know comes into the place and starts an argument. And Brad accuses him of taking money.
It turns violent.

Speaker 4 Liz, listen, I'm going to run this bullshit down. You can run this

Speaker 4 Is this guy real? Yes, sir.

Speaker 4 Yes, sir. That guy is real.

Speaker 4 He and Brad have argued about it before.

Speaker 2 I'm assuming he means that he and Brad argued about this guy before.

Speaker 2 I wonder what they argued about. Not sure.
In any case, it was another false lead. The detective was again sure that footage would show only two people on 358 Wagner Avenue that day, Brad and David.

Speaker 2 This was a personal issue between the two of them, and Detective Villar had a theory. It involved stolen money, which was one of the few truths in David's story.

Speaker 4 This is a fucking TV movie of the shit and stuff here. Yes, sir.
I'm worried. Here's what I think happened.

Speaker 4 Hey, think

Speaker 4 that this guy here that you're coming up with and creating,

Speaker 4 okay?

Speaker 4 I'm thinking this is you putting all your guilt into this guy because you can't limit yourself of what happened. Brad's mad at this guy and you're mad at this guy for stealing Brad's money.

Speaker 4 Brad accused you of stealing this money. If you did or didn't, it's irrelevant.
But Brad accused you of taking your money.

Speaker 4 You were so upset that the man you love thought you accused you and he's dead, that you totally dumped all your guilt and your accountability into this dude who doesn't exist. Yes, sir.
Okay?

Speaker 4 That's some crazy shit, man. I ain't never seen anybody so upset or sick of their selves that they went to this extreme.

Speaker 4 It's crazy. Sir, I didn't shoot him.

Speaker 2 This was yet another lie.

Speaker 2 and there was still one lie left. This one, David hadn't said out loud.

Speaker 2 Not yet, anyway.

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Speaker 2 Two men in Ohio. David is straight, allegedly, married and has children, and his best friend Brad is gay.
Somewhere along the way, their friendship crosses a line into a sexual affair.

Speaker 2 All of Brad's friends know this DJ, this man Brad is in love with, but is David in love with Brad?

Speaker 2 This may never be known. He claims he loves him, but not like he loves his wife.

Speaker 2 They all say David's wife is onto the whole thing, but David insists she knows nothing other than David confessing to her that Brad has told him how he feels about him.

Speaker 2 But hey honey, no worries, he tells her. I'm not going anywhere and there's nothing going on between us.
Winkyface, Winky Face.

Speaker 2 Now Brad is dead, and it's looking very much like David is the killer.

Speaker 2 At the very least, he was present during the time of the murder, so he's either guilty of being an accomplice since he waited to call police, or he's just guilty all the way around.

Speaker 2 In any case, he knew Brad was lying face down in a pool of blood, dead of gunshot wounds to his head, in his basement. And what does David do?

Speaker 2 He takes his wife and younger daughter to the house, pretending he doesn't know any of this. He subjects his young daughter to the trauma of seeing dead Uncle Brad.

Speaker 2 But after all the stories and all the lies, Detective Alar was closing in. And David was about to reveal the final version of his truth.

Speaker 4 You took your own daughter past the body of a man you knew was dead.

Speaker 4 And you maybe, I don't know if your wife's involved with it or not yet. Okay,

Speaker 4 we're gonna find out. No, sir, she is not, sir.

Speaker 4 We're gonna find this out very shortly. Yes, Yes, sir.
Do you understand? Yes, sir. That toitch is gonna look you in the eye and tell you

Speaker 3 if I had to tell her about you and Brad or not.

Speaker 4 I heard she already knows. That's what I kept being told today.
And listen, people that I'm talking to,

Speaker 4 my team's talking to, they don't know each other. Yes, sir.
Okay? It's like Brad's friend from

Speaker 4 when he was a hairdresser and he worked at a gym salon that doesn't know Brad's cousin who came in from Florida who

Speaker 4 talked to Brad about all the problems he's having with you at the wedding. Okay.

Speaker 4 And wait for it. Brad abruptly leaves his dinner with his family saying he's going to meet, guess who? Who's he going to meet?

Speaker 4 Guess who?

Speaker 4 He's not going to pick up another dude to bring to your house. He says he's going to meet with you because he wants to have sex with you.

Speaker 2 You heard Detective Lillar ask if David's wife, Sherry, was involved. That brings in a whole new layer of suspicion.

Speaker 2 Though she was never brought in as a suspect, there could only be one reason she would know about this and go along with her husband having a gay affair.

Speaker 2 The reason is the same reason people have been doing shady things for millennia. Do I have to spell it out?

Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's money, it's money.

Speaker 2 The root of all evil, you know, all that.

Speaker 2 Apparently, Brad paid for all kinds of things for the Kinney family, not just for David. He provided elaborate birthday parties for the kids, bought them household gifts, took them out to eat a lot.

Speaker 2 And get this.

Speaker 3 So one of the things we found out was that,

Speaker 3 you know, Brad was essentially a part of David's family. The kids called him Uncle Brad.
He paid for a lot of things for the Kinneys, vacations,

Speaker 3 birthday parties,

Speaker 3 things of that nature.

Speaker 3 Both Sherry and David told us that they were getting ready to go on a cruise together, all of them together, you know, which you think, you know, you're going on a cruise with your wife and your lover at the same time.

Speaker 3 That made us kind of wonder about Sherry.

Speaker 3 You know, did she know this was going on?

Speaker 2 So while Sherry's involvement is unconfirmed to this day, that gun is smoking.

Speaker 2 Speaking of guns, it definitely did not go down the way Brad described. That was his last lie.
Trying to say that Brad was waving it at him and he felt threatened. So he took the gun from him.

Speaker 2 But then what? The threat is gone, right? No more gun pointing at him. So why shoot him? Not once, but twice.

Speaker 4 Like our situation, me and him.

Speaker 4 I love my wife and kids to death. You love Brad, too?

Speaker 4 I did. I mean,

Speaker 4 we're tight, man.

Speaker 4 Real tight.

Speaker 4 Sometimes you think about leaving your wife, Rand.

Speaker 4 Okay. I told him numerous times, man.
I'm not really leaving my wife. And they kind of come to the conclusion that he understood.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 But

Speaker 4 I told him, I said,

Speaker 4 you know, things are going to have to start to stop.

Speaker 2 No doubt it was hard, as David put it. But self-defense was out of the question.
He tried to allege that Brad was slapping him around before pointing the gun in his direction.

Speaker 2 Keep in mind that Brad was about a foot shorter than David. And not only was David a big guy, a bear, you might say,

Speaker 2 he was also rugged and muscular, unlike Brad.

Speaker 2 All he had to do was walk out of the house.

Speaker 4 He told me,

Speaker 4 he said,

Speaker 4 if you end all of this now, then

Speaker 4 I'm done with you forever. He said, that's it.
And I told him, I said, now

Speaker 4 we can't just drop each other like this. I said, you're my best friend.
I'm your best friend. That's when he said, you need to leave your wife.
He said, this has been going on for too long.

Speaker 4 You need to leave your wife.

Speaker 4 I told him, I said, I'm done. I'm not doing this with you no more.
I'm done.

Speaker 2 David claimed that Brad was guilt-tripping him and accusing him of playing with his emotions. That he couldn't believe he wouldn't leave his wife.

Speaker 2 David claimed he never said anything different than that. And Brad always knew.
Maybe parts of this version were true. Maybe David was the man arguing with Brad.

Speaker 2 Brad wanted him to leave his wife, but David refused. And rather than split up and risk their relationship being outed, he shot him in the head.

Speaker 2 It's also possible that David was milking Brad for everything he had, including stealing money from him.

Speaker 2 Someone had stolen money, but the culprit was never proven.

Speaker 2 And maybe Brad finally called him out on his thievery.

Speaker 2 Why'd you shoot him?

Speaker 4 He was coming at me with his gun, man. What?

Speaker 4 I thought you said you took his gun from him. I did.
So you had another gun? No, the Derringer call.

Speaker 4 You take his gun from him. Yes, sir.
You said you shot him. Yes, sir.
Tell me why you shot him.

Speaker 4 I felt threatened. I'm not going to lie to you.

Speaker 2 He claimed, I'm not going to lie to you. Not only did David sit there for hours and hours telling one lie after another, but his whole life was a lie.
His whole marriage was tainted with lies.

Speaker 2 If he felt threatened, it was because he was scared he couldn't have his way. Scared his wife would leave him.
Or scared of admitting that maybe he was actually gay.

Speaker 2 Gasp.

Speaker 2 I don't know if you know it or not, but it's 2025. Nobody gives a shit.
Do whatever you want.

Speaker 2 Maybe just don't lie to your family and make them live a whole lie that they don't even know about.

Speaker 2 You know, be a decent human being.

Speaker 2 Detective Alar promised David he'd let him know if he had to tell his wife about the affair, assuming she didn't already know.

Speaker 2 Well,

Speaker 2 that time had come. It was time to tell his wife.

Speaker 4 I need to know that you have my back, and that everything I'm telling you is the truth from here, okay?

Speaker 4 And I love you and the kids. And I don't

Speaker 4 want you to be there for me, okay?

Speaker 4 Brad had another gun at the house.

Speaker 4 He had a 22-day

Speaker 4 I went to Brad's house to meet up with him after the wedding. He was fighting with me because he had some money.
Come up missing, and I didn't take no money off of Brad. I never stole money.

Speaker 4 Brad, he always gave me money. You're done to be fucked up.
Listen, just listen to me.

Speaker 4 I went to his house and I told him, I said, listen, from here on out, it's just friends. You and me.
It can't be anything more else because Brad is...

Speaker 4 You know how Brad was with me.

Speaker 4 Okay.

Speaker 4 He flipped out on me. Listen to me.
Please just let me talk, Sherry. Will you please let me talk?

Speaker 4 He flipped out on me. He grabbed the 22 Danger.
And

Speaker 4 before he even did that, he slapped me around a little bit after I told him this was it.

Speaker 4 Okay?

Speaker 4 You are fucking kidding. Listen.

Speaker 4 He came at me with that gun, okay?

Speaker 4 He came at me with that gun because I told him

Speaker 4 he wanted me to leave you guys. I told him that he'd come at me with that gun.

Speaker 4 I decided not to say that. No, David.

Speaker 4 Sherry, I was fucking scared. I didn't know what to do.

Speaker 4 I was scared. I didn't know what to do.

Speaker 2 She knew.

Speaker 2 She knew.

Speaker 2 You can tell.

Speaker 2 She may have been lying to herself and everyone around her,

Speaker 2 but she knew.

Speaker 2 Deep down.

Speaker 2 David was scared, but he wasn't scared of Brad. He was scared of everything but Brad.

Speaker 2 He continued to lie repeatedly to his wife for the next half an hour, only admitting what she probably already knew, that he and Brad had fooled around, but it had been a while, he said, since they had.

Speaker 2 The only real question she had for David was: how long had it been?

Speaker 2 She desperately wanted to know the last time they had sex together, probably because she did know about the affair, and David had likely made promises of stopping before,

Speaker 2 but didn't. But Sherry finally gave in and told him she'd be there for him and to stay strong.
They embraced each other for a long hug.

Speaker 2 They kissed several times. They told each other they loved each other, and David went to jail.

Speaker 3 You know, I've had harder trials, but it was a rough trial. We thought we had a, you know, still think we had a really good case, but you never know.
You never know what a jury is going to do.

Speaker 3 But at the end of the day, you know,

Speaker 3 you present a good case, you get a good result. And this was a good case.
I mean, everybody played by the rules, colored in the lines. There was nothing out there that we were worried about.

Speaker 3 I think David thought that his self-defense story would win the day, but it was just so ridiculous that no one bought it.

Speaker 3 I know one thing that

Speaker 3 was talked about

Speaker 3 our prosecutor deciding to charge David with aggravated murder. We believe that's what it was, but could we prove prior calculation and design?

Speaker 3 Can we prove that he went there with the intention to kill?

Speaker 3 There was a lot of evidence to support that, but

Speaker 3 that was definitely a hot topic issue with the trial.

Speaker 2 And

Speaker 3 defense counsel, who did an excellent job,

Speaker 2 really tried to keep that from happening.

Speaker 3 But the evidence won the day and he was convicted on everything we charged him with.

Speaker 2 Finally, we get to the truth of what actually happened. Here it is.
Brad was shot twice in the back of the head.

Speaker 2 The first bullet entered near the crown at a downward angle, as if he were turning or crouching. He would have lived after this one.
The second one hit lower, driving forward into his skull.

Speaker 2 He never saw it coming. Brad was found face down in the basement, lying in his blood near his hot tub.

Speaker 2 There were bruises on his face. His phone was still in his pocket.
Nothing in the house had been stolen, but the drawers were open, like someone had tried to make it look that way.

Speaker 2 David Kinney would claim it was self-defense and that Brad had confronted him. Things had gotten heated, and he pulled the trigger out of fear.

Speaker 2 But the evidence suggested a very different story. There were zero signs of a struggle, no defensive wounds, just two bullets to the back of the head.
And David had brought the gun with him that day.

Speaker 2 To anyone's best guess, Brad didn't even own a Derringer.

Speaker 3 So I mean, the only other thing about the scene that we had was

Speaker 3 that basement was very cluttered, and we knew at the time we were dealing with a small caliber

Speaker 3 but we didn't know uh how small but typically

Speaker 3 laws of averages when you're dealing with a small caliber it's probably going to be a 22

Speaker 3 so we're looking for uh shell casings

Speaker 3 and um

Speaker 3 i think for the next week we we searched that basement at one point

Speaker 3 We actually took everything out of that basement.

Speaker 4 Everything,

Speaker 3 every box everything period and looked for shell casings never found any so typically that'll tell us that you're probably dealing with a revolver or someone found the shell casings and picked them up one of david's many stories was that he took brad's derringer off of him which which is a revolver or a contained weapon depending on the model and where the casings stay in the weapon after they're fired.

Speaker 3 And that's what he shot him with.

Speaker 2 But I, you know,

Speaker 3 I just don't know.

Speaker 3 I know, I, I, I, I believe that, that David took a weapon there to kill Brad. You know, it was his plan to kill him.
I mean, I think that the evidence supports that most definitely.

Speaker 3 So we don't know what kind of gun it was, just it was a 22. Not for sure.

Speaker 2 To detectives, it wasn't panic. It was fear.
It was a plan.

Speaker 2 David claimed he chucked the gun in a certain location along the highway, but it was never found. We asked Detective Alar for his take on David's character.

Speaker 3 I think there's a little bit of a monster in everybody, and some are worse than others. And, you know, like I said before,

Speaker 3 I understand.

Speaker 3 You know, I know I've been, there's been several times in my life where if things blew a different way, I might have been capable of murder.

Speaker 3 I think everybody, if they're honest with their self, they can agree with that.

Speaker 3 And,

Speaker 3 you know, it's the fact that

Speaker 3 you got to tame your own monster, you know, and you get to that point. You know, you can either be a decent human being or you let the monster win.

Speaker 3 And

Speaker 3 in this case, you know, David Kinney let the monster win.

Speaker 2 David Kinney, the Flaming Queen, was convicted of aggravated murder and sentenced to life in prison, without the possibility of parole plus three years for the firearm.

Speaker 2 His wife was cleared of any involvement with the murder. For a time, it appears she stayed by his side.
They were still married for several years after his conviction.

Speaker 2 But by 2024, her life had taken a different turn. Public posts suggested she eventually remarried quietly, moving on from the man at the center of one of Ohio's most intimate betrayals.

Speaker 2 There's no public word on how her children have coped, either by the loss of their dad or Uncle Brad.

Speaker 2 But one can only hope they've had support and counseling needed to navigate away from something so

Speaker 2 ugly.

Speaker 2 This wasn't just a story about murder, it was a story about betrayal. It was about trust fractured across every layer of small-town life.

Speaker 2 It was about the damage that a secret can do to a family when it's fed, protected, and finally

Speaker 2 exposed.

Speaker 2 That does it for another one. Go check out our merch store now that the holidays are coming up.

Speaker 2 And if you like what we do here, you can find a whole lot more of it on our iPhone and Android app or our website, swordandscale.com.

Speaker 5 Hungry for art and culture that's iconic as the Bay Area itself, stay stay original at kalw.org.

Speaker 5 Life doesn't pause when you're sick. Vaccines against respiratory illnesses can help protect you and give you more playtime with your best friend.

Speaker 5 Depending on age and health status, vaccinations for flu, COVID-19, RSV, or pneumococcal infection may be recommended. Vaccines can help keep you from having a rough time.

Speaker 5 Learn more at cveep.org/slash vaccines dash protect. Brought to you by the American Lung Association and CVEEP, Fighting Infectious Respiratory Disease.

Speaker 9 Be our guest at Disney's enchanting musical, Beauty and the Beast.

Speaker 1 Experience this timeless, classic tale brought to life like never before.

Speaker 1 Fill your heart with joy and Disney magic at this dazzling and beloved production.

Speaker 13 Coming to the Orpheum Theater July 14th through August 9th, tickets on sale now at BroadwaySF.com.