Episode 316

Speaker 1 Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 4 He was pulling my wrists and he pulled me in the vehicle, and he's reaching and he's pulling.

Speaker 5 When you are being held against your will

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 you have no idea what's ahead of you, it felt like it lasted forever.

Speaker 7 Oh boy, are you guys not going to like this one? The misogyny does run thick here at Sword Scale.

Speaker 8 Enjoy.

Speaker 7 There is a line between

Speaker 7 a man

Speaker 7 and a monster. monster.

Speaker 7 And when I say man, I'm also obviously talking about you ladies. You're not immune from this.

Speaker 7 But that line is thinner than we'd like to believe. Most people will never cross it, living their lives without ever feeling the sharp edge of true darkness.

Speaker 7 But under the right or perhaps the wrong circumstances, even the most ordinary person can unravel.

Speaker 7 Just look at my Facebook feed. A moment of rage, desperation, or even fear can crack something deep inside, something buried, unleashing a version of themselves they never thought possible.

Speaker 7 Not every killer is born a monster.

Speaker 7 Some are made, shaped by pressure, by pain, by a perfect storm of events that turn any human into something unrecognizable. That's the whole point we've been trying to make here for 11 years.

Speaker 7 It's not about true crime, it's about human nature. What makes you tick.

Speaker 7 And once that line is crossed, there is no

Speaker 7 going back.

Speaker 7 Well,

Speaker 9 I would like to say on May 7th, 2019,

Speaker 9 I had no idea that when I called my brother, that I would be inundated with phone calls from law enforcement from Clayton County, Georgia. I immediately panicked and feared the worst.

Speaker 9 I had no intention on answering those calls due to fear.

Speaker 9 I answered the phone by mistake.

Speaker 14 And within five minutes, my wife called me and told me there was a deputy at the house to see me.

Speaker 9 My life from that point has never been the same.

Speaker 9 The following day I found myself repeating to my wife I do not know how I'm going to tell my parents or explain to them how this happened.

Speaker 7 The voice you just heard belonged to a man named Keith Herring. He was speaking about an incident involving his older brother, Kenneth.

Speaker 7 On On the evening of May 7th, 2019, 62-year-old Kenneth Herring was driving on a busy highway in Clayton County, near Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta, an airport I know very, very well.

Speaker 7 At some point, he drove into an intersection that he shouldn't have.

Speaker 4 This story begins with Kenneth Herring and his car driving along, and there's pretty much no doubt that he runs a red light near Forest Parkway and Riverdale Road.

Speaker 4 When he runs that red light and another tractor trailer were coming toward that intersection, and Mr.

Speaker 4 Herring hits the trailer, and everybody pulls off to the side to deal with the fact that there's just been a traffic accident.

Speaker 7 Several other motorists saw the crash unfold, and some pulled over to help, including A Georgia correctional officer named Terry Robinson.

Speaker 16 Did you witness a vehicle vehicle collision on May 7, 2019?

Speaker 20 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 16 And where did that collision occur?

Speaker 20 Clark Harrow and Forest Parkway.

Speaker 22 As we were approaching them,

Speaker 22 the light, the light was green.

Speaker 22 The vehicles were turning to the left.

Speaker 22 And the truck I know was turning right.

Speaker 20 All of a sudden, I seen this maroon vehicle come, bam.

Speaker 22 hit the side of the truck.

Speaker 7 Terry Robinson wasn't on duty at the time. He wasn't a traffic cop or highway patrolman either.

Speaker 7 But as a correctional officer, he took it upon himself to control the scene until the proper authorities could get there.

Speaker 16 Now, what damages did you observe to the red maroon truck after the accident?

Speaker 22 The front end was heavily damaged.

Speaker 22 Radiator fluid, all water was leaking out. and everything was heavily damaged to the front.

Speaker 14 Because I was thinking that this vehicle could not go anywhere.

Speaker 20 I assume that the vehicle was disabled.

Speaker 7 The pickup truck was wrecked, practically totaled. As for Kenneth Herring, he didn't appear to be injured, but he was somewhat dazed.

Speaker 22 And I saw the gentleman kind of slumped over a little bit.

Speaker 14 That's what made me pull over to see if he was okay.

Speaker 22 And I, when I got a car, that's when I asked the gentleman, is he okay?

Speaker 22 And then just basically making sure the gentleman's okay, that's that's when i call 911

Speaker 7 kenneth was responsive but there clearly was something wrong with him and he was possibly drunk after checking on kenneth's well-being terry robinson called for help as it so happens that just happened to be one of the worst traffic days in that area

Speaker 16 285 was shut down because a battery truck had caught on fire.

Speaker 4 So law enforcement is kind of blocking the entrance and exits for 285,

Speaker 4 and then there's another accident somewhere else in that area. So traffic is piled up, cars everywhere, no one can really get anywhere.

Speaker 4 And it's taking law enforcement a few moments to get to the scene.

Speaker 7 More than 20 minutes had passed since Terry called 911.

Speaker 7 No cops or emergency services had arrived. So Terry called again.

Speaker 27 Clayton County 911, what is the location of your emergency?

Speaker 26 Clark Howell and Forest Parkway is in. We had a call earlier, and it's been over like 20 minutes now,

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 no police or no hamlands have shown up at this location.

Speaker 28 And like I said, there's a ball, a red decoder, and a semi-tractor for us.

Speaker 26 And none has pulled up at this moment in time.

Speaker 29 Okay, I just need a call. We already have someone on the way.

Speaker 7 The dispatcher assured Terry that help was on the way. Meanwhile, another witness to the crash also called 911.

Speaker 31 Cretan County, 911, what is the location of your emergency?

Speaker 26 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 24 I'm working on Forest Parkway and Clark Howell Highway.

Speaker 26 And there was just an accident. I'm sure they've already called, but I was just I just witnessed it and I just wanted to make sure that

Speaker 26 I, I guess, called the police as well in case they didn't.

Speaker 30 What were the kind of vehicles involved?

Speaker 26 It's a red Dodge pickup truck. I think it's a Dakota.

Speaker 26 And a semi was involved.

Speaker 26 And the red Dakota offspring the red light and slammed into the side of the semi.

Speaker 26 Okay. And what's your name? My name is Hannah.

Speaker 32 A-C-N-N-A-H.

Speaker 26 Last name is Payne. T-A-Y-N-E.

Speaker 7 Terry and the other witness continued to wait. As they did, they noticed something strange.
Kenneth Herring had climbed out of his truck and began aimlessly wandering around.

Speaker 4 Mr. Herring appeared somewhat confused

Speaker 4 after the accident. Kept saying, who hit me, what's happening, things along those lines.
And then started saying things like, I didn't do anything wrong.

Speaker 7 Kenneth wandered in circles a few times. Then he got back behind the wheel of his truck and tried to restart the engine.

Speaker 22 He got back into the truck when I recall. He got back into the truck and I said, well, sir, are you okay?

Speaker 14 Like that? And he's like,

Speaker 14 I'm ready to go.

Speaker 22 Like, I said, sir, you can't go anywhere.

Speaker 14 You know, can't go anywhere.

Speaker 22 And all of a sudden,

Speaker 14 he turned on the vehicle. And I was like, well, sir, you can't do anything.
You can't move.

Speaker 20 You can't move.

Speaker 22 And that's when he

Speaker 22 put it in the drive and

Speaker 2 floored it.

Speaker 7 Kenneth sped off.

Speaker 7 Terry, while still on the phone with the 911 dispatcher, watched as the damaged pickup disappeared down the highway.

Speaker 28 I think he's uncared.

Speaker 26 Something's going on with him.

Speaker 24 And so the thing about we're trying to tell him the turn of his vehicle off and smoking, and he's not calling the man.

Speaker 26 So that's why I'm asking if he's

Speaker 10 moving his fear.

Speaker 26 He's trying to drive off, man. He's driving off.
He's driving along. Take a picture.
I'm driving life. Take a picture.

Speaker 32 Quick, quick, quick, quick.

Speaker 26 Quick. He's driving off.
He's driving off. Where's he going, Kerry?

Speaker 26 He's heading for us. He's heading for us on Riverdale Road.
He has an older black gentleman, gray hair, blue shirt on, and front end damage, heavily front end damaged in front.

Speaker 26 Can't even believe it. I knew he was coming wrong with that guy.

Speaker 28 I knew it.

Speaker 7 As Kenneth had fled the scene, the other witness, Hannah Payne, didn't hesitate. She jumped into her Jeep Wrangler and took off after him.
Okay, good. Go.

Speaker 32 Now, the other driver who was in, and she's going to take a picture of the

Speaker 26 hopefully the lady, the lady in the Jeep was almost in the recident, so she turned around and she went after him. So she's going to take a picture of his videos and stuff.

Speaker 7 As Hannah pursued Kenneth, she stayed on the phone with the 911 dispatcher and relayed his movements.

Speaker 30 911, what's the location of the emergency?

Speaker 31 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 18 I'm on Clark Howell at Forest Parkway, DNS section.

Speaker 30 I actually called about 20 minutes ago for an accident and no one has shown up yet.

Speaker 18 But I am under the impression that the guy that caused the accident who ran the red light is drunk and he's gotten back in his car and he's looking like he's trying to drive away.

Speaker 30 Okay, can you get his tag number?

Speaker 19 Hold on, he's driving away.

Speaker 35 It's a red South Dakota.

Speaker 32 One second, hold on.

Speaker 32 Okay, so he is going west

Speaker 3 down Farth.

Speaker 33 No, I'm sorry, down Fort Farthway.

Speaker 30 Okay, so you couldn't get a thing number?

Speaker 31 No, but I'm passing up to him right now.

Speaker 7 Hannah followed Kenneth and eventually caught up to him. What happened next left several other drivers stunned and horrified.

Speaker 4 Now, did you see any sort of struggle between the driver of the car that she's standing at and Miss Payne? Yes. Okay, describe what you saw.

Speaker 34 It just looked like a little pushing back and forth.

Speaker 6 What else happens next?

Speaker 14 I ended up pulling out my phone to record.

Speaker 15 Honestly, I hate to say it like this, but that was like another date in Clayton County.

Speaker 10 And

Speaker 10 as I was recording, I heard a gunshot.

Speaker 7 On May 7th, 2019, a gunshot echoed through the traffic on Riverdale Road in Clayton County, Georgia. Drivers hit their brakes, their heads whipping towards a sound.

Speaker 7 At first, it seemed like just another case of road rage until they saw the blood.

Speaker 7 Someone was shot.

Speaker 7 Someone

Speaker 7 was dying.

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Speaker 7 On the evening of May 7th, 2019, 62-year-old Kenneth Herring caused a traffic accident on a busy highway in Clinton County, Georgia.

Speaker 7 He ran a red light, driving his pickup truck headfirst into the side of a tractor trailer. The semi-driver was unharmed, but witnesses noticed something about Kenneth.
Something off.

Speaker 7 He seemed confused, maybe even drunk. Among those who stopped to help was an off-duty correctional officer named Terry Robinson.

Speaker 16 Was the vehicle operable?

Speaker 24 At the time, it wasn't because it was off, but we see that happen that

Speaker 22 he was able to turn it on and leave the scene.

Speaker 4 He realized at some point, Mr. Robinson did, that Mr.

Speaker 16 Harry's kind of circling his vehicle.

Speaker 4 If he doesn't know what's going on, he might get in his car and drive somewhere. I think he's going to leave the scene.

Speaker 6 And sure enough, Mr.

Speaker 25 Harry does.

Speaker 19 Get in his vehicle and begin driving.

Speaker 7 About 20 minutes after the accident, Kenneth did something unexpected. He climbed back into his truck and sped away.

Speaker 7 A short time later, and just a couple of miles down the road, a frantic driver flagged down a police sergeant.

Speaker 38 Yes, I was flagged down by a citizen that informed informed me there had been a vehicle accident and someone had been shot.

Speaker 4 When you first arrived, kind of describe what you initially see.

Speaker 15 There's a large crowd of people, obviously the two vehicles that appeared to have collided, and there were other vehicles pulled over to the side to, I guess, assist with the situation.

Speaker 38 And multiple witnesses pointing to a red pickup truck saying that the man inside had been shot.

Speaker 7 The officer was directed to Kenneth's truck. Inside, Kenneth was unresponsive, slumped in the driver's seat, bleeding from a gunshot wound to his abdomen.

Speaker 4 And what did you do?

Speaker 38 We were trying to identify where his gunshot wound was and basically what was going on with him and as long as trying to get the driver's side door open.

Speaker 4 And was a paramedics or EMT or an ambulance requested?

Speaker 25 Yes, they were.

Speaker 4 And were there also civilians assisting you with Mr. Herring? Yes.
Before the paramedics arrived? Yes.

Speaker 4 Did Mr. Herring ever say anything while while you were there?

Speaker 23 No, no.

Speaker 7 When paramedics arrived at the scene, they rushed Kenneth to the hospital. But it was too late.
Kenneth Herring, a father, a husband, a brother, and a son, was gone.

Speaker 7 His death was sudden, violent, and completely unexpected. His family was devastated.

Speaker 23 I no longer have a big brother.

Speaker 19 He called me

Speaker 6 biscuit head all my life because from a little kid,

Speaker 6 every time my mom

Speaker 19 would get up every morning to make fresh biscuits, I would be there.

Speaker 6 As the baby, I got the first one.

Speaker 19 And so as I got older,

Speaker 6 he would then just call me biscuit.

Speaker 19 I won't get to hear that anymore.

Speaker 19 We won't get to

Speaker 19 laugh at him

Speaker 6 because he couldn't dance, but he tried.

Speaker 10 No more Christmas.

Speaker 23 No more birthdays.

Speaker 10 No more family gatherings.

Speaker 6 His grandchildren

Speaker 19 won't know him.

Speaker 6 He has

Speaker 10 two adult children, but

Speaker 10 they don't have a father anymore.

Speaker 7 After Kenneth had died, an autopsy was performed performed to determine the cause and manner of his death.

Speaker 16 And did you recover any projectiles from Mr. Herring's body?

Speaker 8 Yes, so the bullet traveled through the abdomen. It struck the small intestine, the large intestine, the colon, and the left kidney.

Speaker 8 Then it came to rest just beneath the skin of the left side of the back.

Speaker 8 It resulted in a massive loss of blood.

Speaker 16 And what was the cause of death in Mr. Herring's case?

Speaker 8 Gunshot wound up the abdomen.

Speaker 16 And what was the manner of death in Mr.

Speaker 19 Herring's case? Homicide.

Speaker 7 Kenneth Herring had been shot to death in his own truck on the side of a Clayton County highway. When police arrived, there was no mystery about who pulled the trigger.

Speaker 7 The shooter confessed right then and there.

Speaker 4 Did you do anything to see if you could determine who had fired a shot?

Speaker 38 Yes, I asked who shot him, and that's when Ms. Payne stated I did and handed me her firearm, her license, and her Georgia concealed carry permit.

Speaker 7 The shooter was 21-year-old Hannah Payne. She had witnessed the initial traffic accident, and when Kenneth fled, she made the fateful decision to follow him.

Speaker 7 When she first witnessed the crash, Hannah was on her way home from her job as a property manager.

Speaker 4 Typically, I'm in the field. I go from property to property, either collecting rent,

Speaker 4 sometimes walking vacant and or abandoned apartments that could potentially be under construction, and I would show vacant apartments to potential renters.

Speaker 39 And because you were going to all these different places to meet people you don't know, did you do anything for your safety?

Speaker 10 I did.

Speaker 20 And what was that?

Speaker 4 I registered for a concealed carry permit and when I received it, I purchased a firearm.

Speaker 7 Several hours after she admitted to shooting Kenneth, Hannah sat down with Clayton County detectives. They wanted to hear her side of the story.

Speaker 7 According to Hannah, when she caught up to Kenneth, she got out of her jeep and approached the truck. She told him he needed to return to the scene of the crash.

Speaker 7 That's when, she claimed, Kenneth grabbed her wrist and tried pulling her into the truck through the driver's side window.

Speaker 40 We grabbed my wrist, we kind of started going back and forth, fighting and that's when he punched the gas and he ran into my tire.

Speaker 24 Now I don't know if he riching,

Speaker 40 I wasn't watching him, I was trying to pull away from him and he had driving him off of me and behind my shirt.

Speaker 7 Hannah told detectives that Kenneth grabbed and ripped at her shirt as she struggled to break free. As she fought back, Kenneth's truck lurched forward, crashing into her parked Jeep.

Speaker 40 And he grabbed like

Speaker 7 Hannah claimed she had no memory of actually pulling the trigger. As for the evidence, Hannah did have some minor bruising and scratches on her body, and her shirt was nearly torn in half.

Speaker 7 So, there were signs of a struggle, but why would Kenneth attack her? Why would he try to drag her into his truck? Was he just a drunk and angry man that day?

Speaker 7 Or was there something else to this story?

Speaker 16 Now, when you made contact with the driver in the Maroon truck, what were your observations of him physically?

Speaker 22 Physically, the scene that he was, again, out of it, like I said, I'm notice his eyes were a glassy effect.

Speaker 22 Again,

Speaker 22 again, not being a professional doctor or anything, just saying that

Speaker 22 was he going through a diabetic situation or whatever. I didn't smell any alcohol on him

Speaker 22 of that sort, but I just noted that the gentleman was, you know, out of it.

Speaker 16 So you didn't smell any alcohol?

Speaker 19 No, I did not.

Speaker 7 A key witness to the initial traffic accident was an off-duty correctional officer who happened to work at the jailhouse infirmary.

Speaker 7 When the officer observed Kenneth after the crash, he concluded fairly quickly that Kenneth wasn't drunk at all, but was suffering from some kind of medical emergency, like diabetic shock.

Speaker 16 You notified Detective Moore that he was walking pretty normal, but he reminded you of a person like you would like from when I was working in the infirmary and stuff.

Speaker 16 These guys, you know, when you're a diabetic and you go into shock and your mindset, you know, that's what it reminded me of.

Speaker 16 He kept asking me what day it was and stuff like that, and I said, okay, sir.

Speaker 7 Yes.

Speaker 16 So based on your observation of Mr. Harry on that day and your experience in working in the infirmary at the Georgia Department of Corrections,

Speaker 16 did you believe Mr. Herring was having a suffering from a medical condition?

Speaker 21 Yes.

Speaker 7 Later on, investigators did confirm that Kenneth was a diabetic and that he relied on insulin.

Speaker 4 And are you related to Kenneth Herring? Yes. And how were you related to Kenneth Herring?

Speaker 43 I'm his baby sister.

Speaker 4 In the time that you spent around

Speaker 4 Kenneth, were you ever aware of any medical conditions that Kenneth had?

Speaker 42 I knew, I know that he was a diabetic severely.

Speaker 4 Were you aware of any type of medications or anything that he had to do in order to manage his severe diabetes?

Speaker 43 He was insulin dependent.

Speaker 7 Although Kenneth's medical condition was clear, The autopsy couldn't confirm if he was suffering from diabetic shock at the time of his death.

Speaker 8 When a person dies, the blood sugar continues to be metabolized very, very quickly. So even in a person whose blood sugar was normal at their time of death, that test would show low blood sugar.

Speaker 8 That's just the normal course of what we call post-mortem change.

Speaker 8 So if his blood sugar was already low, there's no way for me to differentiate if he had a low blood sugar at the time of death versus the normal post-mortem lowering of the blood sugar.

Speaker 7 While the autopsy couldn't verify diabetic shock, it could reveal if Kenneth was intoxicated on the day he died.

Speaker 8 So the comprehensive blood screen at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation tests for all the major and common drugs of abuse, and there are hundreds of different additional drugs

Speaker 8 that the panel covers.

Speaker 16 And you say everything was negative?

Speaker 8 Yes.

Speaker 19 And what about the blood alcohol content?

Speaker 8 It was negative as well.

Speaker 7 The results were clear. Kenneth Herring was not high.
He was not drunk. And it was likely that he'd been in a state of diabetic shock when he crashed.

Speaker 7 When Kenneth's wife was questioned, she gave a plausible explanation for why Kenneth fled the scene of the accident.

Speaker 7 He probably knew he needed medical attention and didn't have time to wait for an ambulance that never came.

Speaker 46 I know he was having a diabetic episode because he don't just run off the scene. I knew he was trying to get to the hospital.

Speaker 7 With this new information, Hannah Payne's self-defense story started to crumble. Diabetic shock doesn't cause aggression.
It usually causes dizziness, confusion, and also weakness.

Speaker 7 Also, Hannah's version of events didn't match what multiple witnesses saw that day.

Speaker 47 I was getting off work as I was approaching Forest Parkway. I was making a left off Atlanta South Parkway.

Speaker 47 As I was making my left and getting into the far right lane, Miss Hannah was coming up Forest Parkway. She was coming from the inn off of Highway 85 and she almost ran me off the road.

Speaker 47 She was speeding.

Speaker 47 She was going very fast.

Speaker 7 When Hannah chased after Kenneth, She didn't just follow him. She sped after him at a reckless pace, weaving in and out out of traffic, nearly running other drivers off the road.

Speaker 7 When she caught up, she used a merging lane to block him. Kenneth was trapped.
He had nowhere to go.

Speaker 4 And blocked him from driving, so he abruptly braped. And it caught my attention because it was like really aggressive, or it was just

Speaker 19 road rage at the time.

Speaker 41 And then

Speaker 24 a woman popped out of the car and she

Speaker 4 said, get up out of the truck to him a bunch of times.

Speaker 7 Several witnesses saw what happened next. They watched as Hannah got out of her Jeep and aggressively approached Kenneth's window.

Speaker 47 I saw her at the driver's side door of the vehicle yelling obscenities for the man said, get out of the car.

Speaker 47 And it looks like she was trying to fight him through the window.

Speaker 16 And when you say she was trying to fight him through the window, what did you actually see?

Speaker 47 I just saw her hands moving you know get out of the car motherfucker doing all this I never saw anyone's hands come out of the window per se but I did see her at the window she got out of her jeep and she immediately went to the truck driver's side yelling

Speaker 48 and began swinging and hitting the man that was in the driver's side of the truck What

Speaker 16 did you hear her say?

Speaker 3 I heard her say, get the F out of the car. She just kept cussing at him.
Get the F out the car.

Speaker 16 Now, were you able to see Mr. Herring inside of his vehicle during this incident?

Speaker 4 Yes.

Speaker 8 And what did you observe of Mr.

Speaker 23 Herring?

Speaker 4 He looked confused. Were you able to see what the driver, what the man in the truck was doing?

Speaker 19 Yes.

Speaker 4 What could you see about him?

Speaker 48 He was sitting there.

Speaker 19 He didn't raise any hands or anything.

Speaker 48 He was just sitting there. That's what made got my attention because he wasn't reacting.
So I thought that was kind of odd, just sitting there and allowing somebody to punch him like that.

Speaker 4 Could you see anything about the facial expressions or anything like that on the driver of the truck?

Speaker 48 He looked confused and shocked.

Speaker 7 According to multiple witnesses, Hannah Payne had recklessly chased down an older man. When she caught up to him, she blocked his truck and assaulted him.

Speaker 48 She was punching the man in the truck repeatedly because his window was down and she just kept punching him over and and over.

Speaker 48 And the truck tried to go forward,

Speaker 48 and that was there was an impact.

Speaker 7 Witnesses saw Hannah yelling and striking Kenneth when his truck suddenly lurched forward, slamming into her Jeep.

Speaker 7 She must have been irate about that.

Speaker 7 The logical assumption is that Kenneth had put the truck in drive and hit the gas, desperate to escape the enraged stranger shouting at him through his window.

Speaker 16 She backed away.

Speaker 48 I could see the gun on her hip

Speaker 48 and she pulled the gun out after punching him repeatedly

Speaker 48 and asked him to get out the car. She was pointing the gun at him, telling him to get out the car, get out the car.

Speaker 41 And she pulled out a gun and I remember it was a lot of traffic. So people, we couldn't really move and people started honking to get the heck out the way.

Speaker 16 Well, what if anything else did you see?

Speaker 19 Her pull a gun.

Speaker 47 After she pulled the gun, she shot him and she said, now you need an ambulance.

Speaker 7 After Kenneth's truck crashed into Hannah's Jeep, Hannah pulled out her gun and a single shot was fired. Soon after, one of the witnesses called 911.

Speaker 33 It was emerging lane and then she like got impatient and went around him for no reason because it was coming from traffic.

Speaker 30 And then

Speaker 35 he almost hit her because he did that.

Speaker 28 So he breaks suddenly.

Speaker 33 But then she got mad and hopped out of her car. And then she pulled out her gun and started screaming at him.
He was like, What the heck?

Speaker 28 And then she's like, I was just doing it, and she started hitting him.

Speaker 18 Okay, you said she pulled out a gun?

Speaker 31 Yes. Did she shoot the gun?

Speaker 24 Did she shot him?

Speaker 24 She shot him.

Speaker 7 Unfortunately for Hannah, a key piece of evidence backed up the witnesses' accounts.

Speaker 7 The entire time she was chasing Kenneth, Hannah was on the phone with a 911 dispatcher. There was recorded proof of her actions.

Speaker 7 Okay, so you couldn't get a TAG number?

Speaker 31 No, but I'm texting up to him right now.

Speaker 30 Okay, ma'am, we actually do not want you to chase him.

Speaker 32 We just want you to be safe.

Speaker 3 I understand to chase him.

Speaker 18 I understand. We're not going to send.
I'm just going to get the PAG number, if nothing else.

Speaker 18 But I am going west down

Speaker 32 Forest Parkway

Speaker 49 and

Speaker 24 we are almost up to him.

Speaker 7 Hannah had gotten close enough to read Kenneth's license plate number to the dispatcher. But when the dispatcher told her to turn around and go back to the scene of the accident, she refused.

Speaker 30 If you can go back to that location where the incident happened,

Speaker 30 because someone is actually on the way to you guys now.

Speaker 18 Okay, well, there's a police officer there, but he is drunk.

Speaker 33 I'm not, I'm not, I'm sorry, but I'm here to tell you I'm not going to follow him

Speaker 31 because he is going to cause another accident.

Speaker 35 So I'm gonna stay behind him and tell an officer to get to.

Speaker 30 You know, that's what I want. I want you guys to go back to the location where it happened,

Speaker 30 and an officer will be out there momentarily, okay?

Speaker 30 Ma'am.

Speaker 30 Get out the car.

Speaker 30 Get off the car!

Speaker 30 Get off the car!

Speaker 30 Ma'am!

Speaker 30 Ma'am!

Speaker 30 Yes! Ma'am!

Speaker 30 He just pulled the trigger of my gun in my hand while he was...

Speaker 30 While he was... Ma'am!

Speaker 30 You are not supposed to follow him.

Speaker 30 Okay, you got the game number.

Speaker 32 There's a police officer down the street. Tell them to come up here now.
He pulled the trigger on my gun after he attacked me.

Speaker 7 He pulled the trigger of the gun in my hand.

Speaker 7 Okay, Karen.

Speaker 7 After Kenneth was shot, Hannah had the nerve to tell the dispatcher that Kenneth had shot himself with her gun.

Speaker 7 Imagine that. Moments later, she coldly told a bystander that she was fine, but that Kenneth wasn't.

Speaker 7 Witnesses later described Hannah's demeanor after the shooting. They claimed that she was cold and actually seemed kind of proud of herself.

Speaker 16 And what was her demeanor at that time?

Speaker 33 Calm?

Speaker 23 Like

Speaker 24 aloof.

Speaker 3 Like she, I don't know.

Speaker 4 There wasn't a lot of

Speaker 16 Now, what was the defendant's demeanor immediately after the victim was shot?

Speaker 47 She had no remorse. She was just like, she was thugged out.

Speaker 47 She had no remorse at all. She was so right in that moment.
She felt like she had done something.

Speaker 16 Now, after the victim was shot, what happened?

Speaker 47 Well, he just laid back in his seat.

Speaker 47 His eyes went. white.
He just laid back.

Speaker 47 She stood back. Somebody else waved down a police officer he was already at exit the officer came running up he said what happened who shot they put her handcuffs

Speaker 7 hannah insisted that kenneth grabbed her gun and shot himself but no one at the scene could confirm or deny that because nobody had a clear view of the weapon when it fired And you know where the gun was based on your observation.

Speaker 48 At that time, the gun was in her, if I'm not mistaken, right hand, but it was inside the truck.

Speaker 48 So, of course, of the door panel, I I couldn't see what was going on there because she stuck it in there.

Speaker 4 But when the gun, when you hear the gunshot, if I'm not, I just want to make sure I understand,

Speaker 4 the hand or the arm with the gun was inside the truck.

Speaker 23 Yes, ma'am.

Speaker 7 Despite her claims of self-defense, and it's a woman, so they're always going to be claiming self-defense, Hannah was ultimately arrested and charged with multiple crimes.

Speaker 7 including malice and felony murder.

Speaker 45 Formally charged. A grand jury indicting the woman accused of following a man involved in a hidden run, then killing him during a confrontation.

Speaker 45 Clayton County's district attorney says Hannah Payne was trying to act like the police when she fatally shot 62-year-old Kenneth Herring last month.

Speaker 45 A witness telling police he appeared to be suffering a medical emergency like diabetic shock. Payne indicted on malice and felony murder.
She's claiming self-defense.

Speaker 7 The COVID-19 pandemic, I know I'm sick of talking about it too. I am.

Speaker 7 But it caused caused a massive court backlog across the entire country, and Clayton County was no exception. It took prosecution four years to bring Hannah Payne to trial.

Speaker 7 In the meantime, she remained out of jail on a $100,000 bond, surrounded by family and friends who supported her.

Speaker 29 You know, you obviously got an outcome that you were looking for, a $100,000 bond. Your reaction?

Speaker 12 I'm speechless.

Speaker 50 I'm just so glad, you know, that it went that way. I mean, we're sorry for what happened and everything in regards to Mr.

Speaker 50 Heron's family and everything, but Hannah is not the person that they are saying she is. Not at all.
She's the sweetest, most caring.

Speaker 12 What do you say? You just mentioned about the family, Mr. Heron's family.
What do you want to say to them?

Speaker 50 I just wanted to say that this was an

Speaker 50 unfortunate situation that, you know, turned out the way it did, but not at the hands of my daughter.

Speaker 12 What do do you mean, not at the hands of your daughter?

Speaker 50 Just, it was not her fault.

Speaker 7 Of course not. How could it possibly be your precious baby angel's fault? Naturally, Kenneth Herring's family saw things a bit differently.

Speaker 7 After waiting years for justice, their frustration boiled over, and Kenneth's brother wrote a letter to the NAACP.

Speaker 7 Within that letter, he wrote, My brother, Kenneth Herring, was murdered in cold blood by Hannah Payne.

Speaker 7 This murderer is out on bond and has not been brought to justice.

Speaker 7 Eventually, the trial did begin. Hannah Payne faced eight felony charges, including malice murder, which could have put her in prison for life.

Speaker 7 At trial and in a surprising move, Hannah took the witness stand.

Speaker 7 Staring directly at the jury, she told them her reasoning for why Kenneth Herring had to die.

Speaker 7 She said there was no choice. She had to save her own life.

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Speaker 7 In December of 2023, after four years of delays, Hannah Payne's murder trial finally began.

Speaker 7 She faced eight felony charges, including malice murder, felony murder, false imprisonment, aggravated assault, and possession of a firearm during the commission of a felony.

Speaker 7 That last one seems a bit redundant, doesn't it?

Speaker 7 If convicted, the now 25-year-old woman could spend the rest of her life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Speaker 53 In 2019, Clayton County police say Payne shot and killed 62-year-old Kenneth Hering. Payne is accused of following Herring after he left the scene of a crash where he reportedly hit a semi-truck.

Speaker 53 Herring was experiencing a medical emergency, which appeared to be diabetic shock. She allegedly confronted him and attempted to make a citizen's arrest.

Speaker 53 She's facing a number of charges, including malice and felony murder.

Speaker 7 Like any murder trial, the proceedings began with jury instructions, followed by the prosecution's opening statement.

Speaker 4 On May the 7th of 2019, defendant Hannah Renee Payne had the audacity to chase,

Speaker 12 corner, detain, assault,

Speaker 4 shoot, and kill

Speaker 4 an unarmed

Speaker 4 62-year-old Kenneth Harry who was sitting in his own car,

Speaker 19 all because

Speaker 4 she didn't like his driving

Speaker 7 from the start prosecutors hammered home a key point hannah payne had no business involving herself in the crash between Kenneth Herring and the semi-truck driver in fact Hannah Payne had no business involving herself in many things and neither do you ladies What, you're an expert in geopolitics now just because you have a Facebook profile?

Speaker 7 Go fuck yourself.

Speaker 7 Anyway, the accident had nothing to do with her.

Speaker 7 She had no right to intervene.

Speaker 19 And the defendant,

Speaker 4 even though the first accident really didn't have very little to do with her,

Speaker 4 has the audacity

Speaker 4 to get in her vehicle and chase him.

Speaker 4 The defendant is narrating what she's doing to the 911 operator, who of course

Speaker 10 of course

Speaker 4 tells the defendant, ma'am, don't chase him.

Speaker 6 That's not safe.

Speaker 49 Don't follow him.

Speaker 27 We don't need you to do that.

Speaker 4 But this defendant, as far as she was concerned, was the rightest person she knew.

Speaker 4 Because she tells that 911 operator, well, I'm not going to follow him.

Speaker 18 So she could have backed off and just let it be.

Speaker 27 Nope.

Speaker 4 Not good enough.

Speaker 24 And you will hear the defendant screaming, get out of the car!

Speaker 24 Get out of the car!

Speaker 4 And witnesses will tell you that she jumps out and is going straight to his driver's side.

Speaker 4 But it turns out Mr. Herring's window is part of the way down, and that this defendant is reaching in to where Mr.
Heron is sitting in the car, in the truck.

Speaker 4 The defendant reaching in and assaulting Mr.

Speaker 32 Heron.

Speaker 4 And while he's trying to deal with the defendant at his door, his car moves forward.

Speaker 32 And what happens

Speaker 4 is that he bumps into her G.

Speaker 4 And once that happens, you'll hear an escalation in what she's saying.

Speaker 6 Get the fuck out of the car.

Speaker 6 Get the fuck out of the car. I will shoot you.

Speaker 32 I will shoot you.

Speaker 7 The prosecutor has also wasted no time dismantling Hannah's version of events. implying that her explanation of what happened was absurd.

Speaker 4 And after she shoots him, she picks up the phone with

Speaker 4 the 911 operator going, ma'am,

Speaker 4 you are not supposed to follow him.

Speaker 4 She's going to tell you the very first thing she says, he hit my car.

Speaker 4 That's what she says.

Speaker 3 You will hear her tell you in her own words why she killed this man.

Speaker 4 Then she tells the 911 operator, he pulled the trigger on my gun

Speaker 3 and shot himself.

Speaker 23 That's the level of audacity you're going to hear.

Speaker 32 Trying to claim this man

Speaker 4 would shoot himself.

Speaker 7 The defense, on the other hand, stood by Hannah's story. They insisted that Kenneth Herring had been the aggressor and that Hannah had no choice but to protect herself.

Speaker 38 And upon grabbing her, he's pulling her into the car.

Speaker 25 And you will see pictures.

Speaker 54 And you will hear testimony.

Speaker 25 And you will see scratches all over her neck, scratches on the back of her head, all these bruises on her face.

Speaker 25 These are evidence that are going to come in.

Speaker 54 These pictures we're taking right after this.

Speaker 54 And you're going to see her shirt just ripped completely wide open.

Speaker 7 To bolster their argument, the defense pointed out that Kenneth, a handyman, had various tools in his truck. Items that...
in theory could have been used as weapons against Hannah.

Speaker 7 Yet, that never happened.

Speaker 39 They're going to show you pictures of a knife,

Speaker 19 work tools that can be used aggressively to cause substantial, serious, immediate harm.

Speaker 7 The trial lasted five days. Witnesses, police officers, and forensic experts took the stand, laying out what they saw, heard, and uncovered.

Speaker 7 Much of the testimony supported the prosecution's case, painting Hannah as the aggressor.

Speaker 7 There was evidence of a struggle, but nothing to suggest that Kenneth Herring had attacked Hannah when she confronted him at his truck.

Speaker 7 Then

Speaker 7 Hannah took the stand.

Speaker 4 I was on my way home from work

Speaker 4 and I was coming up to an intersection where the light had just turned green. As I was getting ready to turn left, there was a semi that was turning right.

Speaker 4 Someone ran the red light and I watched him run right into the tractor trailer.

Speaker 4 I

Speaker 4 pulled off to the side and I got on the phone with 911.

Speaker 7 Hannah began telling her side of the story, describing the traffic accidents she witnessed and everything that unfolded after that.

Speaker 4 After that we were kind of just standing there waiting for the police to arrive and

Speaker 4 the other gentleman who had witnessed it walked over to us and he introduced himself and said that he was a state officer and he flashed his badge

Speaker 4 and said that he had checked on the other gentleman and that was asking us are we okay is everybody all right

Speaker 7 one of the key witnesses to the accident was an off-duty correctional officer named terry robinson during her testimony hannah claimed that she'd been following the instructions of a man she assumed was a quote state officer what i thought that that we had learned was

Speaker 4 that the driver who had caused the original accident was potentially drunk. I noticed that's when he completely gets in his truck.

Speaker 4 He starts trying to turn it on and you can hear him like revving it to get it to turn on

Speaker 4 and that's when he started to drive away.

Speaker 4 So I'm explaining to the dispatch what happened

Speaker 4 and as he's pulling off she's asking me, you know, was I able to get the tag number? Realizing I wasn't able to, I was already at my vehicle and

Speaker 4 I got in my vehicle, completely got in my vehicle and went to go pull off.

Speaker 4 And at that time, the truck driver and the state officer was still standing over in the street, and he started waving me over, like calling me towards him.

Speaker 39 And when you got close to him, what happened?

Speaker 4 I

Speaker 4 asked him,

Speaker 4 did Did he go straight? And he said, Yes. And he's telling me, He said, Go.

Speaker 39 So at that time, you were under the impression that he's a state officer sending you to get the tag, and 911 knows that you're on the way to get the tag.

Speaker 4 Correct.

Speaker 7 After Kenneth had fled the scene, Terry Robinson instructed Hannah to follow Kenneth, and this fact was not disputed.

Speaker 54 And that was you in there saying, Go, go, good, go.

Speaker 15 Correct?

Speaker 54 Yes. Okay, that was directed clearly to Miss Payne, correct?

Speaker 10 Yes.

Speaker 54 And you didn't see her after that because she's going to get a picture of the tag, correct?

Speaker 21 Yes. Because

Speaker 39 you never said anything about please don't pursue.

Speaker 54 Or you never said anything like, hey, D say, don't do this.

Speaker 14 I said, get the picture of the tag.

Speaker 2 And you said, go, go, go, go.

Speaker 14 She's going to get a picture of the tag.

Speaker 7 While Terry may have been in the wrong to encourage Hannah to pursue Kenneth, one thing was certain. He never told her to run him off the road and shoot him.

Speaker 7 Not to mention the fact that just because you're female doesn't mean you don't have autonomy and can't make your own decisions. You know?

Speaker 7 Why are you always acting like victims? Hannah's decision to chase him was her own, despite what anybody else told her. Nonetheless, Hannah's testimony continued.

Speaker 39 Alright, so then now you're going in the direction they pointed you and you're on the phone with 911.

Speaker 39 Was 911 saying anything?

Speaker 4 I was just, there was kind of silence from the time that she had initially asked me if I had got the tag.

Speaker 4 I was still kind of getting my bearings and I just started repeating to her, telling her, okay, you know, he's going down

Speaker 4 Clark Howell or Forest Parkway.

Speaker 39 So you never heard them give a warning of not to chase?

Speaker 39 No.

Speaker 7 This was a damning moment at trial and frankly a boneheaded move by the defense.

Speaker 7 When prompted by her own attorney, Anna claimed she hadn't heard the 911 dispatcher tell her not to chase Kenneth. But the recorded call told a different story.

Speaker 33 Okay, so you couldn't get the same number?

Speaker 31 No, but I'm texting up to him right now.

Speaker 30 Okay, ma'am, we actually do not want you to chase him.

Speaker 32 We just want you to be safe.

Speaker 19 I understand to chase him.

Speaker 18 I understand we're not going to send. I'm just, I'm going to get the pack number, if nothing else.

Speaker 7 The dispatcher's words were crystal clear. Do not chase.

Speaker 7 Hannah had even responded, saying that she 100%

Speaker 7 understood before outright refusing to obey. Y'all ever heard of that word? Obey?

Speaker 7 Might be a new one for you.

Speaker 32 I'm not.

Speaker 33 I'm sorry, but I'm here to tell you I'm not going to follow him

Speaker 31 because he is going to cause another accident.

Speaker 35 So, I will stay behind him until an officer can get to us.

Speaker 7 Hannah's testimony continued. She went on to explain her actions when she confronted Kenneth.

Speaker 4 At that point, is when we had both come up to the intersection, and I saw him stopped in the turning lane.

Speaker 4 So, I turned as well,

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 4 when I stopped,

Speaker 4 I was under the impression with me having 911 on the phone that I could just be kind of like a messenger.

Speaker 4 So I took my phone on speaker and I took it to him to show him that I had the police on the phone. And I'm telling him they want us to go back to the original accident site.

Speaker 7 Hannah tried to present herself as a good Samaritan, but the 911 recording contradicted this.

Speaker 7 She had been aggressive, barking orders at an older man who was likely in the midst of a medical emergency.

Speaker 7 Granted, she didn't know Kenneth's condition and assumed he was drunk, but even so, there was no justification for her to chase him down and confront him.

Speaker 4 But as I got closer, I heard him

Speaker 8 asking me, who the F are you?

Speaker 4 And I told him that I was nobody, but that I had the police on the phone and that they wanted us to go back to the original accident site.

Speaker 4 Apparently, I was close enough for him to reach out the car,

Speaker 4 and he knocked my phone out of my hand, and he grabbed me

Speaker 4 by my wrist,

Speaker 4 and he pulled me into the vehicle.

Speaker 7 Hannah claimed Kenneth attacked her and tried to pull her into his truck. If that was true, a point the prosecution strongly doubted, Hannah was clearly the one who escalated the situation.

Speaker 7 Legally, whatever action Kenneth took at that point didn't matter.

Speaker 4 The indication is, as from all of the witnesses, were asked her demeanor. Aggressive.
Aggressive. Very aggressive.

Speaker 4 Once she is noted as the initial aggressor, as the aggressor on scene, nothing that Mr. Herring done

Speaker 16 did is relevant.

Speaker 7 Despite the prosecution's argument, Hannah stuck to her story. She insisted that she'd been trying to protect herself.

Speaker 4 He was pulling my wrists and he pulled me in the vehicle and he kept yelling at me, telling me, I have something for you, bitch.

Speaker 5 And he's leaning

Speaker 4 and he's reaching and he's pulling.

Speaker 3 And at this point,

Speaker 5 I

Speaker 5 remember

Speaker 4 I remember that he had let go of my wrist and he grabbed me by the back of my neck. And it was as if he was trying to kind of keep a hold of me.

Speaker 4 I'm telling him to let me go.

Speaker 4 And that's when he hits the gas.

Speaker 10 go forward.

Speaker 4 I'm still in the car at this point.

Speaker 4 while it only may have been a few steps or a few feet

Speaker 5 when you are being

Speaker 4 held against your will

Speaker 4 and

Speaker 3 you have no idea what's ahead of you

Speaker 4 and you're looking down, it felt like it lasted forever.

Speaker 7 Here we go with the tears. Of course.

Speaker 7 Hannah goes on to tell the jury that after Kenneth's truck lurched forward and crashed into her precious Jeep, Kenneth attempted to take Hannah's gun.

Speaker 7 And now suddenly she's being held against her will.

Speaker 7 The irony. What the fuck was she doing there anyway? This eternal victimhood.
It's fucking exhausting.

Speaker 4 He grabbed my hand with the gun in it.

Speaker 4 He's pulling at it, he's pulling at it, and I'm just yelling at him to stop.

Speaker 4 As he's turning it towards, like that way I'm being pulled and pulled and I can feel myself like pressing up against the car like my face is up against the door

Speaker 4 and as he's pulling it is when it

Speaker 8 this should

Speaker 6 could went off

Speaker 39 having gone through that situation and

Speaker 39 you are in court is there anything you've learned from this situation or that sticks in your mind That not everybody is going to have a reaction that you think they're going to have

Speaker 5 and

Speaker 3 that clearly trying to do the right thing is not the right answer.

Speaker 7 Jesus frickin'.

Speaker 7 Did the concept of minding your own business ever cross your mind, Hannah? I mean, why would it?

Speaker 7 Hannah claimed that she had been simply trying to do the right thing. But in the end, it was Kenneth who was to blame for what happened.

Speaker 7 For Kenneth's family, who were sitting in the courtroom, listening to Hannah's words was unbearable.

Speaker 13 How was that? I mean, for them to bring forth that type of defense, what did you think about that?

Speaker 43 I think it's selfish to blame the victim.

Speaker 42 And I thought it was heartless.

Speaker 55 when all the counts said

Speaker 43 she was the aggressor and then to blame a a victim of the person that you caused the death of.

Speaker 13 It must have been tough to sit through that.

Speaker 43 It was very tough.

Speaker 7 Next up, the prosecution cross-examined Hannah, which was a bit of a disaster for the defense.

Speaker 16 And you also testified today that you never heard the 911 dispatch give you a warning gotta chase.

Speaker 4 No, I never said that.

Speaker 4 I said that she told me that she wanted me to be safe. And I said that from what I took it as, was that she didn't want me to chase.
And when I explained to her, I wasn't chasing.

Speaker 4 I was just simply staying with him until a police officer could get to us.

Speaker 16 And the 911 dispatch indicated to you approximately four times

Speaker 16 to either not chase Mr. Herring and go back to the scene, correct?

Speaker 4 Incorrect. I only heard it one time and she told me not to chase, to be safe.

Speaker 4 She never told me to go back to the scene until after I had told her that I was behind him and that she wanted me to be safe. And in doing so, she said that she wanted both of us to go back.

Speaker 7 Hannah's explanation of the 911 call was a word-salad mess. Rambling, contradictory, and unlikely to convince the jury of anything.
other than she was an idiot.

Speaker 7 You only heard her tell you to stop chasing once, but then she told you again to stop chasing and go back to the scene after you told her that you were behind him? What?

Speaker 7 What, what, what?

Speaker 7 What are you even saying, lady?

Speaker 7 Oh, that's right. It's never my fault.

Speaker 7 I see. Makes sense.

Speaker 16 And the dispatcher tells you, okay, ma'am, we actually do not want you to chase him. We just want you to be safe.

Speaker 16 The first time they tell you not to chase him, correct?

Speaker 4 She didn't tell me not to. She just said that they didn't want me to to because of my safety.
At least it's the way that I interpreted her.

Speaker 16 Okay, I'll give you that. So they told you that they do not want you to chase him, correct? Correct.

Speaker 16 And the dispatcher tells you after that, it's not safe to chase him

Speaker 16 second time, correct?

Speaker 4 That's what the transcripts kind of said. When we're listening to it, I don't remember hearing that, but.

Speaker 16 And once she gets a tag number from you, she tells you, okay, so if you could go back to that location where the incident happened because someone is actually on the way to you guys now, is that correct?

Speaker 24 Correct.

Speaker 16 That's the third time she's telling you to not continue to follow Mr. Henry and go back to the location.
And the dispatcher tells you after that,

Speaker 16 you know, that's what I want.

Speaker 16 I want you guys to go back to the location where it happened and an officer would be out there momentarily. So that's a fourth time she's telling you again.

Speaker 7 After going over the 911 call, the prosecutor then turned to what happened after Hannah blocked Kenneth's truck.

Speaker 16 Now you testified that you walked up to him.

Speaker 16 Does it sound like you described it calmly telling him that the 911 dispatch wanted him to go back to the scene?

Speaker 23 Correct.

Speaker 16 And telling him calmly that you were on the phone with 911?

Speaker 4 I mean, when you say calmly, do you mean,

Speaker 4 like, was I irate or was I louder?

Speaker 16 that's just your testimony today that you did not get out of your vehicle and run up to mr. Herring's vehicle telling him to get out of the car correct

Speaker 16 and you never once got out of your vehicle and go up to him and tell him to get out of the fucking car

Speaker 4 well everyone heard I did

Speaker 16 and so at no point on that 911 tape did you ever tell him to stop

Speaker 16 go back to the scene. I did.
And did you hear that on the 911?

Speaker 4 Conveniently, no.

Speaker 7 The prosecutor's argument was simple. Hannah had no legal right to chase Kenneth.
She had no reason to confront him at all.

Speaker 7 And the only reason a man was dead was because of the choices she made on that day.

Speaker 16 So in the initial incident, your vehicle was not struck, correct?

Speaker 19 Correct.

Speaker 16 And so there was no reason

Speaker 16 for you to interject yourself in the final conclusion of what happened with Mr. Herring as far as that incident was concerned.

Speaker 4 There was a lot that led up to that.

Speaker 4 So for me to have interjected myself to begin with was me doing something that I would have wanted someone else to do for me, which was to be a witness for what I thought was an accident.

Speaker 16 You talked about the fact that it could have been avoided had you not attempted to, I guess, assist or help.

Speaker 16 But this actually could have been avoided if you not had introduced a gun into this incident, correct?

Speaker 4 I introduced the gun to

Speaker 4 try and save my life.

Speaker 16 Nothing further on.

Speaker 7 Hannah's decision to testify didn't do her any favors. But given how much evidence was stacked against her, she really didn't have much of a choice.

Speaker 7 Maybe a white girl crying on the stand would sway a dumb juror or two.

Speaker 7 Finally, after days of testimony, the trial drew to a close and both sides delivered their closing arguments.

Speaker 16 The defendant had multiple opportunities to do something else.

Speaker 16 To go back to the incident location, to go back home, not pursue. This had nothing to do with her.

Speaker 16 You can't poke a bear. And then when the bear turns around

Speaker 16 and attacks you, want to claim self-defense. It doesn't work that way.

Speaker 16 And you know how much entitlement you have to have

Speaker 16 to chase somebody down, detain them, jump out your car

Speaker 16 and run toward a stranger.

Speaker 19 He didn't know her.

Speaker 46 He didn't know why she was approaching his car and demand that they do anything.

Speaker 16 He didn't have to listen to her.

Speaker 16 He didn't have to do anything she said.

Speaker 16 And the audacity

Speaker 16 to come here and take that stand and blame everybody

Speaker 19 else.

Speaker 7 The prosecution argued the obvious. Hannah should have minded her own business.
The world would be a much better place if more of y'all out there. Yeah, you.

Speaker 7 The ones listening right now. Minded your own fucking business.
The defense countered, claiming that Hannah was young, naive, and simply trying to do the right thing.

Speaker 7 But how many times have we heard that before?

Speaker 39 Not understanding what could happen, because she's never been in this. She's 21 years old, never been in a situation like that.

Speaker 38 In her mind,

Speaker 39 she's a young individual trying to help out.

Speaker 39 This is not some killer.

Speaker 25 This is not some murder.

Speaker 54 This is a young girl that got caught up in in the wrong situation with a good heart and good intention.

Speaker 7 The jury had two versions of Hannah Payne to consider. The defense portrayed her as a well-intentioned but naive young woman.

Speaker 7 The prosecution painted her as an entitled and smug Karen who took the law into her own hands and ended up killing an innocent man.

Speaker 7 In the end, it was the jury's job to decide which version of Hannah was the truth. And it only took them about two hours to make that decision.

Speaker 56 More breaking news this time out of Clayton County, where we just heard hours ago a jury return a verdict in the murder trial of Hannah Payne.

Speaker 57 The panel deliberated for a little more than two hours, unanimously finding her guilty on all eight counts.

Speaker 7 Say it with me.

Speaker 7 Guilty on all counts.

Speaker 7 For Kenneth Herring's family, justice had finally been served.

Speaker 11 When I heard the first verdict, I know he wasn't supposed to show a sign, but tears start rolling down my face because at that moment, I felt a relief that came over.

Speaker 43 And

Speaker 34 from the first to the second to all the way to the eighth, all I could say was thank you.

Speaker 13 Thank you.

Speaker 21 Thank you.

Speaker 7 While this trial remained focused on the evidence, the court of public opinion, of course, was much messier.

Speaker 7 Because Hannah was a white woman who shot a black man, many on social media, you know, the shit stain that it is, were quick to label her actions as racially motivated.

Speaker 7 The prosecutors rejected this theory outright because the evidence just didn't support it. Besides, Hannah had previously dated a black man.

Speaker 7 Her current boyfriend was Dominican, and her best friend since childhood was a black woman. By all accounts, Hannah had a diverse circle of friends.
In fact, she must have felt bulletproof.

Speaker 7 Anyway, for the state, racism and hatred were never a factor in this case. That's just social media horseshit by other Karens with nothing better to do.

Speaker 17 I think people are under the misconception that it was race. We never ever bought race into this matter.

Speaker 17 As I told y'all when she was convicted the other night, that was too simple to say that it was black and white. You know, we sat in our office for four years.
We were having these discussions

Speaker 17 and trying to figure out why. Only Hannah Payne knows why she did it.

Speaker 17 But the fact that we, there's certain things that we knew that she, we knew she had an African-American boyfriend, you know, so that automatically throws out, you know, hate out there, you know, race.

Speaker 17 We will never know. We will never know because she never really told us the truth, on the stand.
That that story kept changing.

Speaker 7 The district attorney put it bluntly. Only Hannah Payne knew why she did what she did.

Speaker 7 But one could argue that maybe even she didn't fully understand.

Speaker 7 The people closest to her certainly struggled to make sense of what happened. Her friends and family were stunned when they learned about it.

Speaker 7 Those who knew Hannah swore she was one of the kindest people they'd ever met. At Hannah's sentencing hearing, several of them spoke on her behalf.

Speaker 55 Payne was in tears at times as her loved ones talked about the person they knew her to be.

Speaker 44 I have witnessed her servant's heart more times than I could be permitted to talk about today.

Speaker 44 Over the course of time, I have consistently witnessed Hannah opening doors for others, always express thank yous

Speaker 44 without hesitation to step in and offer assistance whenever and wherever needed.

Speaker 44 If you've ever had a moment where you need to lift a heavy item into your car and a stranger walked up without being asked and offered to help you, this could have been Hannah.

Speaker 44 If you've ever seen a person ask for money on the street and a person give it freely because they care, that may also have been Hannah.

Speaker 44 If you have ever seen a stray animal walking too close along a roadway and a total stranger stop to render help, that also was likely Hannah.

Speaker 44 And not once, not ever, have I ever witnessed her be the slightest unkind.

Speaker 7 The murder of Kenneth Herring wasn't the work of a cold-blooded killer, but rather several moments where someone's worst instincts took over.

Speaker 7 Hannah Payne allowed her inner monster to win, and because of that, a father, a husband, husband, a brother, and a son lost his life.

Speaker 7 But what made things even worse was what came next.

Speaker 7 Rather than take responsibility, Hannah took her case to trial, trying to convince the jury that her murder victim attacked her and that he had shot himself.

Speaker 7 Her lack of remorse spoke volumes. One of the nicest people you've ever met, you say?

Speaker 7 Huh. That's interesting.

Speaker 7 She continued to allow the monster to win, adding to the suffering she had already caused. At sentencing, Kenneth's family, understandably, pleaded for the maximum punishment.

Speaker 55 The prosecution and defense both presented witnesses, among them Herring's relatives.

Speaker 34 I'll never see my brother again, only through pictures.

Speaker 34 The same

Speaker 34 sentence that she gave him, I would like to see the same sentence given to her.

Speaker 7 Kenneth's family and the prosecution pushed for life without parole, while the defense pleaded for life with the possibility of parole.

Speaker 7 Ultimately, the judge chose the latter, but also ordered that some of Hannah's additional charges would run consecutively to her life sentence.

Speaker 17 Ms. Payne is going away for life with the possibility of parole.

Speaker 17 For those of you who do not understand what life with the possibility of parole means, it means in 30 years, that will be the first time that she will be able to come up for parole.

Speaker 17 But she's got an additional 13 years. She's a 25-year-old woman.
I'm not good with math, but 30-plus 13 would put her somewhere around 78 years old before she could possibly get out of jail.

Speaker 7 Hannah Payne was not a career criminal. She wasn't a hardened killer.
By all accounts, she was a decent and ordinary young woman living an ordinary life. Until the day she wasn't.

Speaker 7 Until the day she got so gassed up that she thought she was Batman.

Speaker 7 That day, a mix of arrogance, self-righteousness, and adrenaline pushed her past the point of no return. Women don't seem to do well with adrenaline.
Men live with it. Born in darkness, molded by it.

Speaker 7 In Hannah's immature mind, she was a hero, an enforcer of justice, a caped crusader and a jeep wrangler. Do you hear how dumb that sounds?

Speaker 7 But justice was never hers to deliver, and in chasing a moment of control,

Speaker 7 which is all it was, she destroyed countless lives, including her own.

Speaker 7 She lost everything.

Speaker 7 One pull of a trigger was all all it took for an ordinary woman to become a murderer.

Speaker 7 The line between man and monster isn't as thick as we'd like to think.

Speaker 7 It's fucking scary.

Speaker 7 It can happen in an instant to you. To me, or anyone else, for that matter, when we're least expecting it.

Speaker 7 Sometimes, all it takes to cross over that line is the wrong belief that you're on

Speaker 7 the right side.

Speaker 7 All right, ladies, I think I've beaten you up enough today. He's so abusive.
So why don't you mind your own business and head on over to sword and scale.com and until until next week, stay safe.