EP.245 - KATE NASH

I added one more podcast to the giant podcast bin.

Now you have plucked that podcast out and started listening.

I took my microphone and found some human folk.

Then I recorded all the noises while we spoke.

My name is Ad Buxton, I'm a man.

I want you to enjoy this, that's the plan.

Hey,

how are you doing, podcats?

It's Adam Buxton here.

I'm standing still

at this point in the Norfolk Farm track

and I'm being regaled by a chorus of birdsong coming at me from every angle on this beautiful, breezy, sunny morning coming up to mid-May 2025.

Have a listen to this.

It's like Bird Glastonbury out here, Doglegs.

What do you think?

I'd like to go back to the house and lie on the sofa.

I know, Rosie, but we're going to go for a quick walk.

Come on, it's too nice to lie on the sofa.

You've got the whole rest of the day for that.

I'll join you.

How are you doing, podcats?

I'm very well, thank you.

I got knocked off my bike yesterday though.

Wasn't hurt I'm glad to say and my bike was unscathed but it was very shocking.

I was on a roundabout in Norwich quite busy a lot of traffic and one of the cars joining the roundabout just didn't see me as I was coming round the edge and didn't stop so hit my front wheel and my leg.

but luckily was breaking as they did so so I wasn't badly biffed at all although the front of the car got a bit of a dent.

Anyway it was very lucky

and we were both shaken up, myself and the driver

and he stopped and apologised and made sure I was okay

and once I realized that I was definitely okay

we parted amicably.

both relieved that it wasn't much worse.

But you know it was one of those moments when you I I wouldn't say my life flashed before me, but there was a moment when I realized that the car was going to hit me

when I thought, oh dear, I might go under the wheels.

And then that would be bad for me and the Brompton.

But thank goodness it didn't come to that.

I felt quite emotional afterwards.

I mean I always feel emotional.

It's been an emotional week.

I've been doing interviews for the book, which comes out in a couple of weeks.

By the way, obviously, plug for the book link in the description to pre-order copies.

There's signed copies waiting for you to be scooped up at Waterstones, Waterstones, as well as my local independent bookshop, the Book Hive,

here in Norwich.

Anyway, for goodness sake, pre-order if you haven't yet.

Castle Buckles is depending on you.

So anyway, yes, I've been doing interviews and you know talking about

the ridiculous things in the book, but also talking about the more serious themes

of grief, losing my mum, that kind of thing.

I need some media training, basically, so I can just go in with some sound bites and do it that way.

But the other emotional thing, in a very positive way, that happened to me this week was that I saw Tim Key and Tom Basden's film, The Ballad of Wallace Island, which I got a preview screening of

before

recording a podcast with Tim and Tom, which was very good fun.

A lot of stupid laughter.

That's going to be coming out in a few weeks.

But the film was great.

I loved it.

So much heart.

It's about a lottery winner played by Tim,

who lives on a remote island and pays for his favorite folk duo to reform and play him a private gig on his island.

And the folk duo were once a couple as well, but they split up.

They're played by Tom Basden and Kerry Mulligan as Maguire Mortimer.

Anyway it's very funny and

it's got so much heart.

I loved it.

If I hadn't loved it I would have done the podcast with Tim and Tom anyway but I just would have found other things to talk about.

As it was I was in the happy position of being able to gush genuinely about it and I really recommend it when it comes out in two or three weeks time I think.

Okay apologies for the extended top waffle there.

Let me tell you a bit about podcast number 245 now which features a rambling chat with English singer-songwriter and actor Kate Marie Nash.

She of the distinctive indie pop sound and candid lyricism.

Remember when she emerged from the vibrant UK music scene of the mid-2000s and quickly garnered attention with her 2007 debut album Made of Bricks, which featured the hit single Foundations and showcased her unique blend of wit and emotional depth?

Of course you do.

She was one of the people that defined that era in music.

The birds, they are going for it today, Doglegs.

Anyway, last year, 2024, Kate released her fifth studio album, Nine Sad Symphonies.

But in addition to her music, she's carved out a successful acting career, most notably featuring in the acclaimed Netflix comedy-drama series Glow between 2017 and 2019, alongside co-stars that included Alison Bree, Ruth Wilder, and American comedian and podcaster Mark Maron.

So, those are the Kate Nash headlines.

But when I recorded a conversation with Kate face-to-face in London in early April of this year, 2025, we went behind the headlines to hear about the reality of Kate's ups and downs in the music industry and how she was able to march on through setbacks that have included being dropped from her label after her second album and facing financial ruin and lengthy legal proceedings in 2014 following the discovery that her manager had been stealing from her.

Kate also told me in typically straightforward terms about the reality of the modern music industry for someone in her position and the radical money-making strategy, that's how I would characterize it.

She might disagree.

Anyway, it's a strategy she's been relying on to keep her band on the road and herself out of the red.

Now, if you're one of the people that used to listen to me and Joe Cornish on Six Music back at the end of the 2000s, you may remember that I recorded a Kate Nash parody song as part of one of our Song Wars battles.

And even after Kate had arrived for our recording with PR person Sinead, who had set up the meeting, thank you, Sinead, I was still dithering about whether or not to mention my song in case it made things weird.

So, which way do you think it went?

Tough one, isn't it?

I'll be back at the end for a tiny bit more waffle, but right now, with Kate Nash, here we go.

Ramble chat, let's have a ramble chat.

We'll focus first on this, then concentrate on that.

Come on, let's do the fat and have a ramble chat.

Put on your conversation coat and find your talking hat.

I'm really excited to be doing this.

Oh, it's nice to be here.

I feel slightly starstruck by you.

Quite right.

Which I don't actually feel about anyone, really.

Oh, well, that's a very nice way to begin.

Did you ever used to listen to me and Joe on the radio in the old days?

I did, yeah.

I haven't heard your parody of me.

Oh.

But I know that you did one.

Itchy Bum or something.

Joe's was called Itchy Bum.

Mine was called Bums and Binge Drinking.

Sounds like my youth, yeah.

I mean, it's, it was, I was riffing on some of the themes on Made of Bricks.

Yeah.

But no, it sounds actually like it could have been on the album.

Well, maybe I'll play it to you at the end.

Okay.

Would that be okay, or would you feel weird about that?

I think I'll feel okay about it.

Well, maybe we should just see how you feel.

By the end of the conversation.

Let's see how the conversation feels.

You might end up going, fuck you, and stick your stupid song up your ass, and I never want to see you again.

Okay.

I only because I talked to Robbie Williams once on the podcast.

I listened to that episode, yeah.

What did you think of that?

I felt, I actually feel about your interviews.

I feel like when I'm thinking, oh, I kind of want to know this thing, I feel like you ask it or you approach it from a way where the listener is like thinking the same thing and wants to kind of know.

And I feel like you did it from a place of like, it was kind of weird, right?

Because he hit you up being like, I'm a fan, I want to do this.

or something.

It was a lockdown thing.

I think he was bored.

He was into you.

He started listening maybe through John Ronson, who is a friend.

Yeah.

And I like John as well.

The thing I worried about actually was that I was a bit rude to him.

Or not rude, but.

No, you didn't come off rude.

I thought maybe it was not cool to play him my parody of Rude Box, which I played at the end.

Did he like it or not?

I couldn't tell.

I mean, it was.

As I was playing it, I thought, well, I'm putting you in an impossible situation because you have to be a good sport about it.

Otherwise,

you might sound a bit precious.

So that wasn't really okay of me, I thought.

To play the parody.

So that's why you want to play it to me.

Well, no, that's why I'm asking you about whether I should play the parody to you, because it would be a similar thing.

I would hate it.

It was sort of affectionately done, but I would hate it if you were offended by it.

Yeah, I think...

It's interesting because I think like

had you played it to me 10 years ago, I might not have been able to handle it because there was a lot of trauma in those years in my career.

And like when you're 17, 18 and you do get like bullied by the media for a variety of reasons from your music to the way you look and like all these things.

And then you have like the public who are like,

You're this one thing, and you've never like been that anything else in terms of like mainstream success other than that thing to me.

So I'll constantly remind you of that.

And like that can be like a weird relationship.

You have to basically redefine what success means to you and your self-esteem and like how the world views you and how you view yourself.

And I feel at this point, I've kind of overcome a lot of that.

So I feel like I could listen to a parody of myself by someone that I like and think is funny.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah, you put it very well.

Okay, well, let's take that journey.

Let's go back into the trauma.

And you know, of course, course, if there's anything that you are sick of talking about, or you just say, I feel like I've done, I've,

yeah.

If I don't want to answer something, I wouldn't.

Sure.

All right, good.

I'll tell it.

I'll be truthful.

Yeah, please.

Yeah.

From my point of view, as someone who wangs on quite a lot about the internet and how shit it is and how horrible it is.

Yeah.

as well as appreciating the fact that, of course, it's lots of fun in lots of ways and it has been useful for me in my career in some ways, but it's been central to yours yeah

and i'm interested in that and your relationship what was your first interaction with social media back in the day i remember my friend wesley at the brit school showed me oh

what was it called like friend star or something it was before my space it was before was it even friendster friendster i don't know one of those and he was like have you heard of friendster and i was like no and then he made me he's like, we're going to make a profile.

And I was like,

okay.

Made me one.

And he was like, and I was like, so what do you do?

And he was like, well, you just like chat to people on there.

And I was like, why?

Yeah.

Like, I didn't understand at all.

I barely used it, but it was MySpace that was my in to that world because I was like the perfect age for that period of time.

MySpace, I think, is one of the best moments in music history ever because it was just just kids like running everything.

Kids were just picking a song for your profile, and it was all identity.

So it was like, this is what I'm into, this is what I like, this is how I want to look.

And you could kind of build this image of yourself.

And then kids were just kind of meeting up at club nights, but it was all associated with music.

Music was really important to my space.

And it's kind of insane.

There was no one from the industry in charge at all.

Kids were just playing stuff.

And like, there was no algorithm.

Like, people were not finding stuff because the industry went, oh here's like 50 grand into this campaign or like it was just kids like just finding music liking it playing it putting it on their profile and it was really fun for discovering bands and new artists and it was just like a great discovery tool it was really fun how old were you at that point 16 17 I think I was 16 when I started and you were at the Britz School I was at the Brits School I think I was like finishing the britz school how did you get into the britz school can anyone go to the brits school it's a free performing arts school when I went it was the only free performing arts school in the the country.

I'm not sure if that's still true, but it is free.

And you audition.

You apply, you write, like, you fill in a form, you do a cover letter, and then you audition.

And you wanted to go because you wanted to be a singer, a performer?

I actually went to do theatre there.

Yeah, I was kind of toying between like music and theatre, and I went down the theatre route.

And I'm really glad that I did because I think that really shaped me actually as a songwriter.

And that's why Made of Bricks is so much like storytelling and, you know, because I was kind of wrapped up in that theatre world.

Right.

Were loads of other people doing the MySpace thing there as well?

Yeah.

So we were just on there as kind of teenagers, like socializing.

And I guess like leaving the Brit School.

And I think it was probably in my last year of the Brit School that I went, I created that profile.

And

yeah, it must have been because I was working, I was like working in Nando's.

And I remember like writing songs when I was working in Nando's.

And I got rejected from drama school and from university, I didn't get in anywhere.

I'm sorry.

It was, yeah, I was sad about it at the time.

But I

started writing songs and thinking, like, I need to do something because I'm just working in like a chicken shop.

And then you broke your foot.

I did.

And you were forced to convalesce.

This is the

official narrative.

It is.

And the timeline's a bit funny, but basically, I broke my foot and got my last rejection letter.

I was in Nando's.

I had a heart condition.

Did you?

Yeah.

Yes, that's right.

Yeah, so I had to have heart surgery.

And you wrote death proof off the back of that.

I wrote death proof, yeah, about that.

What was wrong with your heart?

I had like a tachycardia, like an extra like thing that my heart.

Too groovy.

Too groovy.

Too many beats.

And yeah.

And it would kind of get stuck on this like little digger

and I would get these palpitations.

Ooh, scary.

Was it scary?

It was quite scary, yeah.

I got it like lasered off, like laser surgery.

Laser heart surgery?

Yeah, they like make holes in tiny little holes in like the top of your kind of thigh crotch area, both sides, and they push tubes through your veins, and you can feel it.

You have to be awake.

So you can like, it's such a weird but kind of cool feeling of like feeling tubes go through your vein like painful

and then they just like set your heart on fire why can't they go in through the chest I don't know I think it's I think they're missing a trick dr.

Buckle says go in through the chest mate no need to go up the thighs what are you doing that for I think it like just is like about not you know no scar and they kind of can feed everything through like the veins and go direct what's wrong with the bum

that's what I've been saying for years yeah

well we could revolutionize it.

We'll get there.

Okay.

But that is frightening.

And then you came out of it the other side.

I quit Nando's and then I needed another job and I started to work at River Island.

And then I think between getting rejected from all of my universities, I had like a couple more bristle old Vic and a few things.

I got my final rejection letter.

I'd gone through that heart surgery and then I was like, I need to do something fun and I just need to do something creative because all my friends are kind of off doing this stuff and like I don't just want to work in River Island and so it was around then I think I broke my foot and and that was a good thing for me because it gave me like negotiating time and I was like when my foot's healed I'll book my first gig and I worked on songs at home with my broken foot and I think I needed that like as like a I don't know, just moment to be like stuck at home and finally admitting like you're really bored.

Like even though you're really scared of a gig, it's going to be better than being this bored.

So it's time to confront the fear.

And were the songs you wrote many of the Made of Bricks songs at that point?

Birds was there, definitely.

I think Nicest Thing was there.

Caroline's Victim, which was my first single.

I can't really remember.

And did the sound, that very particular sound, was that...

present and correct from day one or did that evolve i think it was in some of those in a very basic recording you know i didn't really have recording skills and i was just recording yeah how were you recording Garage Band on my laptop.

Yes.

And just as the I know you use, right?

Sure, that's that was my the beginning of my incredible musical journey.

I love your music.

Thank you.

It's great.

But it is just like a really easy, creative tool.

It just made it really accessible.

Yeah.

That's right, because Made of Bricks came out in 2007 and that was around the time that I got Garage Band, which I guess must have come out around 2005.

Yeah, I started in 2006, I think.

So my first gig was April 13th, 2006.

Yeah.

I really remember that.

There you go.

And who were you listening to?

Like, what were your influences?

What was going into those songs?

I was listening to like Regina Spector a lot and

Kimir Dawson.

Ah, from the Moldy Peaches.

Moldy Peaches.

When I started kind of entering the music world, there was just so many...

fun artists around.

Like Jamie T was, I saw him like in a pub in Nambuka and like started seeing people around at different club nights, like Lily Allen or Adele

I knew from school and just like lots of indie bands.

And you just kind of start hanging out and kind of getting to know each other at shows.

And it feels like really exciting to be part.

Like I would go anywhere.

I would just get on the tube and go to like an open mic night an hour away because I was like, I'm just trying to like.

make this happen.

Or like an anti-folk festival in Brighton.

I was like, I'm going to get the train and then get the train home that night.

You know, I was just really driven to be part of a creative scene.

Yeah.

So then you start putting up your music on

MySpace.

Yeah, my negotiation with myself was like, as soon as my foot's healed, I'll like make my secret music profile public and then I'll go to my local bar and book, try and book my first gig with a demo.

I did that and

it just kind of started happening quite quickly for me.

I think that MySpace window, I was really lucky to get in in there because I just became part of that London scene and young people just liked my music.

And so quickly there was music lawyers and labels and publishers in my messages on MySpace, you know.

So within a few months, it seems like

you get a record deal.

Is that right?

I think so.

Whoa.

And how was that?

I did a single deal with Moshi Moshi Records, which is really fun.

I started like meeting,

I got a manager.

And I think the first person that I got on my team was a lawyer, which I was, you know, like, I didn't even know why I would need a lawyer, but I got one because lawyers are like, you need a lawyer.

And I guess because they know you're going to be dealing with contracts and stuff soon, they're trying to kind of lawyers, I think, get in there early.

And I got a publishing deal first, which was really scary because it was just like a, I had no, I mean, I was like 17 or 18, like no, I was dealing with like

Nando's and River Island style work contracts, contracts, you know, and then you get offered like a lot of money and this massive contract that you just don't understand.

You try, but you can't because you're a teenager and it's really hard to get your head around that.

I remember being really scared to sign my publishing deal and I went to the loo and like hid in the loo and I was like, I'm just going to try and call everyone I know and no one picked up.

And I was like, well, I guess I'm just going to sign it then because no one's here to tell me not to.

What did your parents say about it all?

My parents are really supportive.

And I think they were also nervous because, like, I was,

my publishing deal was more than probably, my mum was a nurse.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, she did not make a lot of money.

So, that's like a lot of money that is just suddenly thrown into your life and

spent on records and promotion.

Was your dad around?

Yeah, my dad.

Yeah.

They still like come to all my shows.

They're really supportive in terms of like...

being there, showing up, coming to gigs.

And they've flown around the world to see me.

And they always supported me like with hobbies, and my sisters as well.

My mum got really scared when it started sort of going, and like Amy Winehouse was around at things.

I remember being with my mum somewhere like Paris or something, and Amy Winehouse was on a TV show, and it was like she wasn't doing great.

And my mum got like really freaked out by that, I think.

And just realizing, like, she didn't have the

tools, I guess, to teach me anything about it either.

Because it, like, we don't have anyone famous in our family, and it wasn't like, Oh, this is someone who can look out for you.

It was like, Oh god, this is actually a really toxic world that's quite crazy and scary.

Were you wary yourself?

Were you sort of thinking, oh, I've got to tread carefully here, or were you just thinking, Whoa, hey,

I'll have those drugs.

Yeah, I think

a bit of both.

If like young, and like, I really wanted this, and I was excited.

I don't think I was ever comfortable with fame.

Like, when I was younger, and I was like, I want to be a famous actor, or I want to be a a famous musician or whatever.

And then as soon as I was like chased by Paparazzi for the first time, I was like, oh, I really don't like this.

And I was, yeah, I guess, you know, you're young, everything was going really fast.

I was traveling and just like drinking all the time.

And it like

you're just learning as you go and trying to perform and trying to, I mean, it's just a lot.

Yeah.

And, you know, within a few months, well, the album came out, went to number one.

It was in the charts for like 40 weeks or something.

It was a big deal.

You won a Brit Award the following year in 2008.

You were on big TV shows.

You were on Later with Jules.

You did all the big festivals, Glastonbury, Latitude, Reading, Leeds, Tea in the Park.

And

what was that like?

Was that a steep learning curve to suddenly be on big festival stages?

Festival gigs, man.

That has got to be one of the hardest shows you can play.

I think it was numbing, a little bit numbing.

Because

my goal, like when I was on MySpace, I was like, my dream is to play a festival.

And then, like you say, I'm playing every festival in the world.

Like, when your dream was just, like, I want to play a festival.

And then it's like, you couldn't really compute it as being someone so young.

I would have a lot of fun.

I had some really exciting moments.

I understood a Brit Award, I guess, because like as a kid, I watched that on TV all the time.

And there were certain moments I feel I could be a bit more conscious of.

But

I don't even know how I feel looking back.

I think it was just really quick

and I was really driven and I got things that I really wanted.

But as a young person who was in an industry where people really take advantage of you, and I spent a lot of years, I guess, learning,

A, I'm the boss, I'm in charge.

So I decide like who my employees are.

And B, what I want.

And C, like how to become really good at what I do, and that just takes time.

Yeah.

I mean, you were sufficiently confident that you didn't get crushed in the first couple of years, right?

No, no, I didn't get crushed by everything that I've been through.

Yeah, yeah.

And was it fun, though, playing those shows?

And did you generally get a good response?

I think it was.

I think I enjoy everything now so much more

for quite a few reasons.

I guess, I mean,

I definitely had fun.

Like it wasn't just like, oh my god, it was just too much.

Like I wasn't like shy or overwhelmed, but I was overwhelmed sometimes.

I remember playing Hammersmith and selling it out and being a bit like, I don't really feel anything.

And I think I realized after that, I was like, I need people around me that I like, I'm going to really enjoy this with.

There's a couple of moments I remember like this guy in my band, Jay, who did my first ever gig with me.

He was the guy guy who like,

you know, at Wembley Rugby Club when someone was, we were all like 14, 15, we used to go to this like Wembley Rugby Club and watch metal bands.

And we used to go together, but we didn't know each other.

And he would like jump in on bass when someone was like puking in the corner or he'd be on keys or he'd be on the drums.

Like he just kind of did everything easygoing.

And he was in my band from my first gig to like 2000 and maybe end of mid-10 and then he had to leave for personal reasons.

He's still one of my really close friends and we still like collaborate now.

um

but once he left that was like you know when something moves that you're like he was my person

of like goodness and like mischief and solidness and then he left and i suddenly everything was so visible of like all these things are really wrong and all these people like no one actually has my back and everything just felt really wobbly and then i had one insane experience after a six-week american tour

where you're just levels of exhausted especially when you're like drinking and all of that i don't i don't drink anymore but it ended in a stop in Mexico where we did a Mexican show.

And then I had a TV the next day.

And I was this lighting girl who was really paranoid about everything.

And she was kind of like covered in tattoos and like stoner, but every city, she'd be like, this is a really dangerous city, man.

And you're like, what is wrong with you?

You're so paranoid about everything.

And we got to Mexico.

She hired her own security guard and she made us put our passports in the hotel safe.

I don't that.

I do not do that.

I throw my passport in my bag, it survives, and like I function in a sort of like chaotic mess, but it like it works.

So we do the show, we do an interview, I do a performance, it's like 8 p.m., we're driving to the airport, we get in the mini bus.

I remember leaning on the window and I was like, oh, I'm so happy I'm going home.

Like, I'm so tired.

Also, I don't even know I was happy to be going home.

I had a horrible boyfriend who I lived with at the time.

Like, everything was just like not great around me, but I was like relieved relieved the tour's over.

We get to the airport and there's this moment where like you're at the airport and the tour manager's like

passports please.

I was like, oh my god, my heart just like sank into my stomach and I was like, I don't have my passport, do I?

I was like, I don't have my passport.

My lightning girl's like, I'm going to get my security guard to go and get the passport.

I'm like, okay.

And then one by one, everyone gets on the plane.

And my tour manager at the time hands me 400 Canadian dollars.

I have a credit card that's like out of date, doesn't work.

And this security guard's coming, and he's like, Here's the number of like the AR guy from Mexico that I didn't know.

You can sleep on his floor tonight.

And I'm like, What?

And everybody leaves me at the end.

No, they all get on the plane.

Everyone gets on the plane, and I'm crying and going, Please don't leave me.

Like, please don't leave me.

Literally crying.

Like, I've never really done that.

I would be crying.

And they all left.

And then I'm like, okay, what do I do?

Like, you know, 10 minutes later, the security guard arrives with my passport.

And I have to figure out, I have to call someone in the UK, a friend, who it's like two in the morning.

He like wakes up, goes to my place to like

gets a credit card for me from my apartment.

And like, I figure out getting this flight to Paris and then I have to get the Eurostar back home and I eventually make it.

and I was like no food on the plane I was just like horribly exhausted

and I get home and I had like one more tour that end of year it was like December it was like with a German band called Sportfreuunde Stille who are massive in Germany they sing in German and I was like I'm bringing my sister and I'm bringing like this other girl and like this person

and I separated like everyone dressing rooms wise.

I was like, no one can come in my dressing room.

Cause I was like so angry.

And then the band were really friendly and it was a really fun, like joyous kind of like little thing.

But I pocketed kind of who I liked into these like dressing rooms and just kind of pushed everyone else away.

Yeah.

I had one major fight in a corridor where I screamed at someone.

I said, remember this day.

Who are you screaming at?

Someone in my band who I was like, I'm firing you after this.

What had they done?

So because I had done that, they were trying to like get revenge.

And my sister went into into the dressing room to get something from my tour manager, and they kicked her out.

Uh-huh.

You don't.

Don't.

Don't fuck with family.

Don't kick out kids.

You're not in charge.

Like, the whole thing is my dressing room.

Anyway, then I got home and immediately fired everyone.

And that was like my first time doing that.

Fired the whole band.

The whole band and crew.

Tour and crew.

I kept two people because my lighting engineer in the UK is awesome.

It's the last time I've ever not brought her to the US.

And a guitar tech who I just promoted to tour manager and so after that I came home and I was like I want an all-girl band because my crowd is all girls and everyone has just like men on stage and I want girls to see like

people that they could maybe be on stage and

that changed everything

at that point had you done your second album Yeah, I think, yes, because 2009 I recorded it, 2010 it came out.

That's the end of sort of like the

not not the toxic era because there was more to come, but like when I suddenly was like, oh, I'm in charge, like I can choose, like, I can have people around who make me feel good.

And like, that has made me be able to get through like all the other stuff that I've gotten through and have real support and people who genuinely care about me and like want to have a good time and love what we do.

And have over 12 years, I guess, of playing together live.

I think it's amazing that you were barely in your 20s and making those kinds of decisions.

And I mean, it's weird that you didn't have a sort of manager who could hold your hand and that you trusted and who said, No, don't fire your whole band.

I'll tell you, the first time I've had that manager, and it's two years ago.

Right, okay.

It took me a long time to find a manager who I genuinely trust.

Yeah, yeah.

But like, it's really hard to find people in the industry that are like, I think, good at their job, decent people, working hard and like trustworthy.

And

I've had a lot of managers.

My first manager was just a bit like doing Coke all the time and like sort of treating me like a little pet girlfriend.

And then they tried to shift me around a few people in the company.

No one was really right.

Then I went like off-rogue with someone who used to be an AR and

then that didn't work.

And I just have tried loads of different people.

I think a good manager is essential, but you just, I didn't have one for 18 years.

How do you, like, if you could go back, how would you do that part of your life differently?

Is there anything else you could have done?

No, I wouldn't.

I wouldn't go back and change anything.

Okay.

But if there was a young artist who was starting out, a young woman.

I just say don't sign contracts.

If someone pressures you to sign a contract, don't do that.

Have the confidence to fire someone if you don't feel good.

This is my only advice I think I can really give.

If you feel like something's off,

it is.

You know, that saying, if there's doubt, there is no doubt.

That changed my life.

It's probably the best advice I think you could ever give anyone.

Because, especially as an artist, like if there's doubt, there is no doubt.

What does that mean?

If you doubt something, you're not doubting it for no reason.

Oh, I see.

I was confused because I was thinking if there's doubt, then

there is no doubt.

But there's no doubt that you, do you know what I mean?

Like, it's trust your gut instinct.

Like, if you feel like something's wrong, you're not, because like right now in this situation I'm not like oh my god like something's wrong with Adam like maybe there's something wrong you know because there just isn't

so if I was sitting here thinking this is quite weird isn't it like is this is this weird because it is weird and I think so often in life we're like we need the evidence or I've thought so many times like I'll wait until I feel this is wrong or I don't really know if I like that person or I'm not really sure about this.

Well, I guess it's hard for people to trust their instincts.

I mean, I know I find that hard.

And a lot of the time I do think well this seems like a drag but maybe this is just the price you have to pay to get to where you want to be and I suppose that's what a lot of people would think in your position back then in their 20s early 20s yeah they would not have the confidence to fire the whole band because they'd be thinking who fires their whole band yeah

what if there's nothing else on the other end of this yeah and what if I've thrown away my only opportunity to yes do something you never have right you just just clear, you have to clear shelves to be able to put new stuff on shelves.

It's the same thing.

You know, if you just go, like, I'm not sure about this, I don't like it.

I'm going to change it.

That's okay.

You can just trust your instincts.

I think that's really underestimated, is like how you can just sense things.

And then after your second album, you parted ways with your label, is that right?

Yes, they dropped me.

I was told via text

by one of my many managers.

And what was their reason for that?

I don't know.

I'd love to ask them.

I guess my second record didn't perform as well as my first.

I was, I mean, I think a bit of misogyny at play.

Like, I do feel like

I've seen peers not perform as well as their first records or whatever and still just stay in their major label contracts.

But at the same time...

I wouldn't change the story because, again, it just totally shaped me into who I am right now.

And you bounced back very quickly.

I mean, you didn't sort of spiral into depression for months and not do anything.

No, I'd made the record already.

I'd made Girl Talk.

So that's album number three where you're suddenly getting a lot more punky.

That was like my rage punk breakup getting dropped album.

Yeah, it was awesome.

The NME said Kate Nash, this is their review of that record.

Commits career suicide.

Yeah, Kate Nash just committed career suicide.

And it sounds awful.

And it sounds amazing.

It's a great headline.

So they liked the record, but they were aware that, well, what are you doing?

I mean, this is going to be hard for people to get their heads around.

This is not like Made of Bricks.

This is not digestible.

So I watched a documentary about you

named after one of the tracks from Girl Talk, that album, Underestimate the Girl.

Yeah.

It's the name of the track and the name of the dock directed by Amy Goldstein.

which came out in 2018.

And there is a part of that documentary in which you are playing a showcase

in an ad agency, is that right?

Oh my god.

There's footage of you and

you are doing your best to, I think, get sort of funding, get some influencer cash or something.

Oh, memory.

That's the most painful part in the doc for me.

I mean, I really watched it and I was like, holy shit, that looks like a tough gig.

I've done gigs like that before, right?

But it's not the same as going out there and singing one of your songs on a little shitty stage in a canteen while people are having their jumping salad and just having their lunch.

Totally ignoring you.

You haven't even got a mic.

No mic.

Turn up there to do this showcase.

There's no mic.

There's no amplification.

You're expected just to sing this song for these total randos.

It's pure desperation.

And someone filmed it and it's in this dock.

And I was like, whoa, that is fucking impressive.

No, but that is impressive.

Like, I was like, holy shit, she she did it.

Do you know what?

That is one of the worst gigs I've done.

Me and my guitarist, Ben, we always laugh about that because we're like, we have seen some shitty gigs.

Like, we have seen some shitty gigs.

I would play that totally differently now.

And I treat stuff like, because you still, every now, I mean, I'm not doing like ad agency lunches anymore.

But every now and then, you walk into a situation where you're like, what's it going to be?

It's going to be awkward.

And

I know how to work those rims now and like make them less awkward and break that ice and just kind of I treat it like a theatre experience rather than a gig but God that was a bad one

it was it was brutal it's so brutal it's just so uncomfortable

honestly though but that was the moment in that dock I just thought anyone who does that is to be reckoned with okay because I yeah as I say I've done I've done things like that and my worst nightmare would be that they would be filmed and put online, let alone.

I know.

I still, when I watch that, I'm like, oh, it's like a sick feeling of just like weak, you know.

But

I think they all add to the.

But it was awful as well because you could see that you were unprepared for the reality of it.

Like you had the very reasonable expectation that there might be a microphone

for your

musical show.

Oh, God.

Yeah.

Oh, it's so awful.

It's so like cringy.

Anyway, respect.

Thank you.

And

but around.

It was worth it to gain your respect.

Yeah, all these years later, I'm like, finally, it paid off.

It's actually made it okay in my mind now.

All right, good.

I hope so.

Around that time, though,

you realized that the bad manager was squirreling away cash.

It's actually happened to a lot of musicians.

I'm sure.

It's quite common.

Happened to Leonard Cohen, didn't it?

It's happened to so many people.

They've turned around and gone through their accounts and realised that.

It's really easy because, again, it's not my comfort zone and it's not my place of like running business and check it.

Like, I have anxiety about money, especially now after being stolen from, like, you really get anxiety about money.

So it's hard to navigate.

And that was a big lesson for me.

But I don't know that I could have done it any differently because I was like just learning how to do that.

Like, I was so young to be trying to figure that kind of thing out.

But yeah, we did go to court, and it was years of my life-like three years.

I feel like the whole thing kind of took famously.

You know, one of the most stressful things that can happen to you is actually

going into a legal proceeding.

Yes, and by then, the money really was running out because I signed this.

I mean, it was

sad because, like,

I invested in myself, as I always do, for girl talk.

And I spent that money without a major label backing.

And I went on that runaway train.

And I got to the end of that.

And I was like, oh my God, we stayed on the tracks.

Like, we played Coachella and Lollapalooza.

And we really did that ourselves.

And then I signed this publishing deal, which, by the way, was a horrible publishing deal.

Signed that.

And I was like, finally, like the tanks kind of refilled.

And I've got the security of.

some finances again.

Like it all felt worth it.

And then he basically, yeah, that all got spent by somebody else and then i got a tax bill on that and i couldn't pay it because i didn't have it

it all just kind of collapsed there for me you were out in la at that point i was in la

and i

i mean my personal life too everything was just such a mess so then i

went to sort of like a pro bono lawyer so everything slows down because you just can't afford a lawyer so you're doing everything for free and I have to pay the tax bill so I sold my flat to pay that tax bill and then I was like at my mum's house, like drinking wine in bed and being like, oh my gosh, yeah, like, what I'm doing.

No, I mean, mate, have some wine in bed.

Definitely.

So I just need to be really still.

Yeah, yeah.

And like, no one asked me any questions right now because I'm on the brink.

And I had a dog as well.

I had like this, rescued this dog, and I sort of put her into like doggy daycare, long boarding.

And I was like, let me go back to London and figure out what I'm going to do.

And I booked Glow.

You booked Glow.

So, so

I feel relief even just hearing that.

Had you

sort of wrapped up the situation with your manager, you'd moved on from.

Glow it was still ongoing.

Oh, was it?

Yeah.

It was rumbling on in the background.

You're pretty much broke.

Yeah.

And you went for an audition.

You'd done a bit of acting before, right?

Yes.

I had done...

obviously theatre at the Brit Square.

I did a short film.

I don't really think I'd done much, but I wanted to act.

And I had an acting manager.

And I had booked a pilot the year before

called The Devil You Know that was directed by Gus Van Sant.

Oh, hello.

Oh, hello.

And just had this amazing time shooting this pilot.

Really cool experience.

It didn't get picked up, but the Gen G Cohen was producing it as well.

And Jen Euston was the casting director.

Gen G and Jen Euston worked together.

And so they were casting for Glow about a year later.

And I saw this breakdown.

It was like lycra hairspray wrestling or something.

Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling is the acronym.

Yes, it is, yeah.

And it's about the lives of a group of women who performed for a wrestling organization in Los Angeles during the 80s.

Yeah, it was a real show.

There's a documentary about the Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling.

It was a real show in the 80s.

And it was the first time putting like lady wrestlers on TV and having like female wrestlers.

And it became a bit of a kids' show, really, in the 80s, but it was also totally unhinged.

They had like the good girls and the bad girls, and they created this Netflix drama.

Basically, Genji Cohen produced it.

And you worked with Mark Maron.

Mark Maron was on the show.

Of American Podcasting, the OG.

Exactly, yeah, Mark.

Yeah.

How is that?

He's an intense guy.

Yeah, he's like, if people always ask what Mark is like, and I always say he's exactly what you think he's like.

Like if you meet him, I feel, have you worked with him or have you been?

I interviewed him for the podcast.

And he was, yeah, he was cool.

In In fact, he was more easygoing than I expected him to be.

I was quite nervous.

I thought he was going to be super intense, and I was worried I was going to say one wrong thing and storm out.

But no, no, no, he's not like that.

He's just a bit of a camudgine-y grouch.

And then he separated himself from us at the beginning quite a lot.

But we all would just kind of hang out with him and like try and annoy him and get him to love us as much as possible.

And he did, he did love us, you know.

But,

oh my god, it was just the best experience.

It was like

even just hearing my life story back, and I'm like, thank God she got a fucking win.

Because

I don't think I would be who I am now if I had not had glow.

You need wins.

Yeah.

You need a win.

Every now and then you just need a win.

And to be on, like, I think I won TV.

I'm like, that's the coolest show you could ever describe to me of like booking a job.

And like, I did it.

I did glow.

I mean, these were like comedians.

I hadn't really spent a lot of time around comedians.

And like, we, I laughed every day till my, I had abs more because of laughing than because of wrestling.

Yeah.

Like, these girls like lifted my soul out of the gutter.

And then slammed it down onto the mat.

And that feels.

But that really, that physical like force thing, like, really will snap the emotion out of you and like make you feel really powerful.

And it really, really rescued my self-esteem.

Like, I really,

like, thank, thank fucking God for Glow.

Before that, then,

what was the bleakest you got?

I mean, did you really feel...

You seem like an amazingly, admirably positive person in every way.

But did you, at one point, just think, actually, I don't know if I can deal with this.

What did that moment look like?

I am like a forever optimist.

I think I just, I don't really know because there was like a lot, you know, over the years.

I really remember being like,

oh, God, like, I wish you would just give up.

Cause like no one's really offering you a hand, but why are you just going to stand up and just keep doing this?

Like, can't you read the room?

Just go and be a teacher.

It's not happening.

It didn't work out.

Like, you failed.

Just do something else.

And I'm like, I'm not going to do something else.

Like, I'm going to keep trying.

And you're like, why?

It's really hard.

And that was that sort of like, I just need to be really still and not break.

And if I don't break, I can just carry on.

I can laugh through a lot of the stuff that's happened.

Yeah, that's amazing.

I think that's so admirable that you can get through a moment like that and carry on, especially when.

Yeah, when you're exposed to harsh criticism as well.

Were you across, like going back to the internet, what was your relationship with it in those days?

Were you you looking at stuff online?

Were you across what people were saying about you?

Were you...

Yeah, of course.

Because

another thing you did was use Kickstarter

to fund your fourth.

I just don't give up, do I?

No.

Well, I mean, it is so impressive.

So you go and, but one of the things about Kickstarter is that it's not free money.

Those are your investors.

Oh, gosh.

So you raised the money to make your album.

Yeah.

Instead of $150,000 or something like that.

It's very scary to do Kickstarter.

I'm sure it is.

God, you just think, I'm not going to do it.

Everyone's going to see I'm a failure.

Like, I'm not going to raise it.

Then you're sort of beholden to them

in some way.

Was that not a scary position to be in?

It was, but I was like, I need to shed

whatever it is that's like you had this made of bricks, like number one record, and foundations was a hit and everyone kind of knew who you were and you were famous and now you're not and you're not as successful because you chart at like 82 in the charts and like I needed to shed whatever it was that's like you're a failure or you're a success and that's it and I was like my career doesn't fit into those boxes like I'm an artist and I'm gonna just like keep doing this and I remember this quote from Patty Smith that was like Sometimes being an artist is like you make a record and everyone really cares about it.

And sometimes it's like a poetry zine and no one's gonna read it.

And I was like, just live it and don't worry about what people think now.

And just know you're gonna, you know, you're gonna just die one day.

So who, like, what the fuck?

Am I gonna care what the fucking sun thinks of me or like some internet comments are saying about me when people can go out there and like just spew a bunch of shit and then be like, I'm gonna cook dinner.

Why should I live my life based on what other people like have decided I am or I'm not when I'll just be in like dust and bones one day?

Do you know what I mean?

I know that's kind of a...

big thing to say, but it's like, why the fuck should I?

And so you have to shed what people think.

And if you're going to be a failure, and if it's not going to work out, it's like, don't really believe in failure.

I just think, like, I'm trying to have a life as an artist, and I want to make music, and I'll just like

just try to make it happen.

And actually, isn't it great that I can do that?

So it's like, I think everything I went through, like, really rebuilt gratefulness for what I do.

And I think that was like my path to being okay.

Was like, I actually fucking love this.

And now I'm actually like

way better at what I do.

I feel really confident in my abilities to be a performer and an artist and a songwriter.

And I, it's not about whether, you know, every now and then I can go in a pub and some blokes like, oh my god, are you Kate Nash?

What's it like not really being as famous anymore?

And like, do you want to talk about that?

I'm like, no, fuck off.

I really don't.

Like, there is a part of me that can still really get triggered by that whole perception of me, of course, just human.

But when it comes to what I actually do, I know I'm good at that and I know I'm going to keep doing that.

Can we talk about your bum?

We can.

In recent years,

your bum has become, and listeners, I apologise, I know you're thinking

Buckles has gone full, he's gone full, creepy sexist.

It's warranted, listeners.

It's warranted.

In recent years, your bum has become a more central part of your work.

Yes, actually, it's been like...

Well, it was lyrically present on certain

made of bricks.

Yeah,

it was all pre-written.

It was all leading me to this moment, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Anyway, so you tell my listeners why I'm asking that offensive question.

Yes.

So I put out a record last year.

I finally have a good manager.

I signed to an indie label.

I'm signed with Kill Rock stars, who are a really iconic punk label, who I love working with.

Across the board, my team are awesome, finally.

And I put out a record last year.

It's called Nine Sad Symphonies.

And, you know, it's going like very well.

But the music industry's in...

crisis, essentially, especially in the grassroots.

But really, I would argue across the board.

When has it not been i don't know but it does feel like it's coming to some kind of a head right now and the nature of the crisis is well financial yeah live music listeners probably know lots of venues are closing yeah post-covid it really bit yes because so many venues had to close and loads of artists you'll notice cancel tours and they might say it's extremely difficult to profit from playing shows also from your recorded music now because like streaming is valued at about like 0.003 of a penny per stream.

Yeah, you've got to have like billions of streams before you start seeing any money.

Yes.

And so

that means that like a lot of people just can't afford to have music as a career, and they might have levels of success that you'd think warranted them being like financially good from it.

So Foundations is your number one song on Spotify, and that's up in the 127 million or something.

Yep.

Is there any like an appreciable amount of money coming from that?

I hear that and I'm like, why am I not a millionaire?

I don't understand.

Like, actually, I should be earning so much more when I hear that.

Like, I just went to America and it's like 70 grand loss.

I went to Europe, it's like a 26 grand loss.

And the UK, I was like, oh, great.

I'm not making anything.

How many dates are you playing on those terms?

Like a month in each.

Well, a month in America, like 10 days in Europe.

I mean, I'm doing a rescheduled gig in in Berlin on Sunday and it's like a loss of 13 grand.

I remember hearing someone say to me, like, oh, we had to cancel that tour because it was going to be a hundred grand loss.

And I was like, surely not.

That's insane.

And then I've gone on tour and lost 70 grand.

So it is the reality.

If you're going to travel safely and ethically, if you're going to pay people good wages or be like, I can't have a band, I'm just going to do backing tracks.

And some people do that.

Fine.

Respect.

Like, I'm not dissing that.

I'm just saying, like, this is how I want to tour and this is the show I want to put on.

And I don't think it's unreasonable.

Yeah.

And but the upshot is that you're filling the financial shortage.

I was in the middle of those tours, and I had like five days, and I was about to start the UK leg, and I was like, I'm really feeling the pinch, and it's nearly Christmas, and I want to pay all my invoices and buy my mum a Christmas present.

And I'm like, how am I going to pay rent in January?

Like, okay, I'll get my quarterly PRS in like March or when April maybe, and that, and that'll be fine by then.

But what am I going to do for those three months?

Like, this is actually, this is insane.

This is my job, but it's also my passion project, and it's really like making me financially bleed right now.

And so, I thought, what can I do?

And I was like, maybe I could sell pictures of my bum on the internet and like start an OnlyFans account and sort of

could I do that?

So, you had a positive impression of OnlyFans?

Yeah, I had never used it, but I was like, I know people that do use it to fund things.

And they hadn't had bad experiences on there.

No.

Because the obvious, like, I'm coming at this

as a 55-year-old,

father of three,

including a daughter that I wouldn't necessarily want to encourage to go on OnlyFans, right?

That's my cards on the table as a kind of conservative-minded when it comes to that kind of thing.

Totally person, I would be saying to her, Well,

is there nothing else you can do to earn money?

And you're aware of all these potential pitfalls.

There's the there's creeps out there, and a lot of them congregate around porn, especially.

And they're gonna, you know, your data is gonna leak out.

People are gonna be unscrupulous with whatever you post on there, they'll steal it, they'll post it on other sites, they're not gonna pay you for it.

Creepy guys are gonna be expecting to have engagement, and many of them could make your life pretty miserable.

You know, casual commentators, randos on YouTube are obnoxious enough, and you want to encourage that with a sexual element too?

I mean, that would be a nightmare as far as I would be concerned.

I, yeah, I mean, I think I already deal with a lot of all of that.

Right.

And

actually,

obviously, I didn't know what that was going to be like, but funnily enough, I have actually found it to be

more respectful than like

general YouTube music comments.

And it's a kind of simple exchange.

It's like, this is a service.

You want a picture of my ass, for example.

Like, I'm going to sell it.

You're going to pay for it.

And then you're going to like it.

And then I can kind of set the boundaries.

And actually, I found people were really like, oh, what are the boundaries here?

Like, can I say this?

Or do you kind of, is it okay?

I don't really know.

Is it okay for me to do this?

And I'm like setting those boundaries.

You can, you're really in control of the whole thing.

So for some people are going on there and like selling hardcore sex tapes.

And some people are, you know, there's a variety of things you can get on there.

And people are kind of saying like, it's okay to do this and it's not okay to do that.

And I can like set all of those boundaries.

There's two different ways to look at it always.

There's there's like the human side where i'm like naked bodies are not offensive to me like naked is naked you know what i mean like we're born naked we all have naked bodies and

like we use them for different things i was born in a fleece were you i can see it

tiny lore yeah

um but like the body the bum is a great example it's like this perfect body part of like

practicality.

It serves a very clear purpose.

Also, it's kind of comedy and it's also like hot to some people, and it's like a sexual, it covers all bases, I think, as a body part.

I'm really a fan of the bum.

So, there's that human side, and then there's the side that like women are treated totally differently in media in the world in so many ways.

I'm 37.

I feel like confident about my body.

I have experienced being nude before for entertainment.

I find like getting my bum out quite funny.

I just think like the human body

can be used for different things.

And

I am also making a punk protest that, like,

I shouldn't have to be doing this actually.

I should be able to be like, I want to do OnlyFans because it's fun for me and I like it.

And, like, I want to make extra money.

Not because I'm like, I'm losing so much money through my tours that, like, I'm worried about paying invoices and want to be ethical.

And like, my industry is melting and no one's fucking saying anything about it.

It's just just not right.

Like we're saying, like working class people, you can't fucking do this because you can't.

You cannot.

I'm so privileged to go.

I lost 70 grand on a tour and I can do another, you know, 13 grand loss on Sunday.

That's a privileged fucking position.

And that's because I had made of bricks and I've carried on, I've gripped the fuck on, as you just heard, to my career and like made it financially viable for me.

It shouldn't be this much.

It just shouldn't be this hard.

And like anyone saying to me, like, you're a bad example to young women, I'm actually fucking advocating for them, like across all classes, to be able to enter the music industry.

Like, because they can't right now, and the door is closing on them.

So, that's why I'm getting my ass out.

Yes.

So, sign up.

It's Kate Nash and OnlyFans, by the way.

I'd love to get a few new followers.

I'll put a link in the description.

Great.

And

maybe I'll post a photo of my ass as well.

I don't know.

If you want, we could do a collab.

Do you want to hear my bum song?

Yeah, I do.

It's the perfect time for it.

Before I play my bum song,

what are you doing with your bum on OnlyFans?

I mean, what kind of things are people asking you to do?

There's no uncreepy way of asking you that question.

I like take pictures.

I've done, I do different photo shoots.

I've done like little videos.

Do you remember Norman Sphincter?

No, who's Norman Sphinct?

My entry into TV was on a show called TakeOver TV back in the old days on Channel 4 in the mid-90s.

And one of the people who contributed to that show, which was essentially a kind of public access program,

was

a guy who called himself Norman Sphincter.

And he would decorate his ass cheeks and make them up to look like celebrities.

And then he would lie.

And I think that is on TV.

Here's the thing I think people actually have a problem with.

Is a woman making choices for herself and having agency.

Like, this is about agency.

This is my choice.

It's my body.

I can do what I want.

Like, if I say it's okay for someone to wank over a picture of my ass, then it's okay.

If I say it's not, I won't put pictures of my ass on the internet.

But, like, I grew up on like watching carry-on movies with my nan and granddad, with like, there's tits and ass everywhere.

And it's like, hee hee, it's funny, it's fine.

But it's like, it's not fine if I choose to do it and I make money from it.

I really think the shocking thing is that I'm making a lot of money from it.

I think people are like, yes, I am.

I solved my like touring crisis problems in like a week like I am making money and like I'm gonna invest that money back into my music career but if you decorated your bum cheeks well this is giving me inspiration like this is what I'm gonna do as soon as I get home you lie on your side the eyes and the nose are on the top cheek yeah the crack is the mouth I'm gonna definitely do this you waggle the you waggle the cheeks to make them speak and then you have to do an impression of whoever your bum is decorating are you waggling them like just by a jiggle or with the hands Is it like anything?

No, you frame out, you hang like clothes around the ass.

And it's a question of frame.

Lying on your side.

Lying on your side, yeah.

And then you hold the top of the bottom.

Can you send it to me?

Sure, sure.

And so you waggle the cheeks like just out of frame.

And then they...

I'll split the profit of what I make from that with you if you want.

All right, good.

In the meantime,

I'm going to play you bum

and binge drinking.

This is from 2009, and this is from a segment on our.

Oh, wait, are you gonna regret this?

Are you gonna be like, I feel bad?

Like, just be okay with it.

Well, no, because I'm giving you permission.

I'm only playing it now because I, having spoken to you for two hours, I think you're gonna take it in the right spirit.

Yeah, great, great, great.

And I don't think it's horrible.

But, you know, please, genuinely, if you think it's shitty, then say so.

If the bum is shitty, then you've got to say.

You always have to say.

Yeah.

Oh my god.

I was a bit depressed today, so I started thinking about binge drinking around three o'clock.

So I went and done a little knock on the door of my best friend Mandy and my boyfriend Andy.

He was Randy.

I could tell because he kept looking at my bum like he was some kind of pervy bum fan.

Bums and binge drinking, binge drinking and bums.

When I get depressed, I like to go binge drinking with my chums.

Why are you depressed?

Said Mandy, but not Andy.

When we were at the shops, buying Alco Pops, Mandy never stops asking me questions like that.

So I told her, Mandy, it's the media, they make my bum feel that.

I have to go binge drinking just so I can deal with that.

Bumps and binge drinking, binge drinking and bumps.

When I get depressed, I like to go binge drinking with my chums.

Cover it if you want.

This is literally my life.

I threw up on Andy and we had a big fight.

Then Mandy puked, and then we had a meal.

And later on, we all watched balls of steel.

Then I felt quite happy, then I was sad.

And I thought, I wonder how many drinks I've had.

And then I threw up, and then I passed out.

It was so embarrassing, my thumb was hanging out.

Bumps, and binge drinking, binge drinking, and bumps.

When I get depressed, I like to go.

Binge drinking with my chums.

Ah.

Bumps.

And then it cat, that's it, basically.

I like that.

La la la la la rooty toot.

Yeah, what?

I remember being quite pleased with that bit.

There you go.

I loved it.

Wow.

I think it's really good.

It's a really good song.

I think it was a great parody of me in my 20s.

I really feel after this conversation like it covered a lot of things that happened.

It sort of tied it all up in quite a neat bow.

Now to

reset the universal axis, though, I think we should have music from you.

Okay.

Would you be okay with that, or do you feel it's a bit weird?

No, I'm okay.

Okay, great.

Maybe I should play something from Made of Bricks.

She was waiting at the station.

He was getting off the train

He didn't have a ticket so he had to bum through the barriers Bum again bum

again

While the ticket inspector soaring rushing through He said girl you don't know how much I missed you but

we better run

because I

haven't got the funds to pay this

Bye

She said

Bye

Well so they ran out of the station and jumped onto a bus with two of yesterday's travel codes Two bottles of bud and he said you look well nice

Well she was wearing a skirt and he thought she looked nice and yes, she didn't really care about anything else

because she only wanted him to think that she looked nice.

And he did.

But he was looking at her, yeah, all funny in the eye.

She said, Come on, boy, tell me what you're thinking.

I'll don't be shy.

He said,

Alright, I'll try.

All the stars up in the sky, and the leaves in the trees.

All the broken bits that made a trip up, and grassy bits in between.

All that matter in the world, that's how much that I like you.

She said,

What?

He said, Let me try and explain again.

Right birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head, yeah.

They can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared.

But when you look at them

and you see that they're beautiful, that's how I feel about

you.

Right birds can fly so high and they can shit on your head, yeah.

They can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared.

But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful,

that's how I feel about

you.

Right, that's how I feel about

you.

She said,

What?

He said,

You

she said,

What are you talking about?

He said you

Right birds can fly so high and they can shoot on your head.

Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared.

But when you look at them

and you see that they're beautiful, that's how I feel about

you.

Right, birds can fly so high and they can shoot on your head.

Yeah, they can almost fly into your eye and make you feel so scared.

But when you look at them and you see that they're beautiful,

that's how I feel about you.

Right, that's how I feel about

you.

She said,

Thanks.

I like you too.

He said,

Cool.

Oh, that was amazing.

Yeah.

Love it.

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Continue.

Hey,

welcome back, Podcats.

Well, that was Kate Nash talking to me and singing.

And I'm very grateful indeed to Kate for making the time.

Much appreciated.

I really enjoyed it.

And as promised I've put a link to Kate's OnlyFans page in the description of today's podcast.

There's also a link to my website with further Kate related bits and pieces.

There's also a trailer for The Ballad of Wallace Island.

That's Tim Key and Tom Basden's film, which they co-wrote.

It was directed by James Griffiths, produced by Rupert Magendy and Steve Coogan,

and due for release on the 30th of May 2025.

And of course, there is a link to pre-order I Love You Buy, the new hilarious and heartwarming memoir by Adam Buxton.

Why not pick up a signed copy from Waterstones?

Oh, imagine how much they're going to be worth one day.

Imagine a bit higher than that.

Yeah, there you go.

That's probably about right.

There's also also a link to buy tickets for one of the live shows I'll be doing in support of the book publication.

And that is on the 19th of May at the Union Chapel in Islington, one of the most beautiful venues in London.

And I will be there talking with Catelyn Moran.

about the book reminiscing about the 90s

maybe playing a few clips clips from the Adam and Joe show and some outtakes, perhaps a bit of radio head stuff because I write about working with them on the In Rainbows webcasts in the book, possible argument with wife Log

action.

Who knows?

Who knows what'll happen at that Intelligence Squared event and it would be lovely to see you.

All right, that's it for this week.

Thanks again to Kate Nash and to Sinead for helping arrange the conversation.

Thanks very much indeed to Seamus Murphy Mitchell for his invaluable production support and conversation editing.

Thanks to Helen Green for her beautiful artwork.

Thank you to all at ACAST.

But a particularly heartfelt thank you to you.

You're one of my favorite listeners.

You're just so generous, easygoing, open-minded, slow to judge, very well dressed.

You smell delicious.

And I was wondering if we could have a hug.

Oh, okay.

No, that's fine.

Sorry, I didn't mean to.

Oh, okay, come on.

Hey.

Good to see you.

All right.

Until the next time, we share the same owl space.

From myself, my friend Doglegs.

Don't patronize me.

I apologize.

And all the beautiful birds and the other crawling creatures out here in Norfolk.

Go carefully, it's still nutty out there.

And if it makes any difference, I love you.

Bye.

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