Part 2: NBA Trade Team Grades With Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre. Plus, Super Bowl LIX Million-Dollar Picks.

Speaker 1 Coming up, part two of the big NBA trade deadline, Extravaganza Next.

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We're also brought to you by the Ringer Podcast Network.

Speaker 1 Put up a before Sunrise Rewatchables on Monday. You can watch it on our Ringer Movies YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 You can also watch me and Sean and Chris doing a trailer reaction to Jurassic Park Money Grab, the new Jurassic Park movie. I think that's the title.

Speaker 1 If you missed it, part one of the trade deadline podcast, which we did live on YouTube, which you can follow if you subscribe. Bill Simmons is the YouTube channel.
Me, Rob Mahoney, Big Woz.

Speaker 1 We covered all the angles from the week, and then this is going to be part two, which we basically started recording recording right as the trade deadline ended at 3 p.m et on thursday that is the first fart part of this podcast first part of this podcast then the first part of this podcast uh and then after that i am going to be doing million dollar picks for a little game they call the super bowl uh we did not do a lot of football this week but football was all over the place on the on the uh ringer.com on the ringer podcast network we had the ringer gambling show ringer nfl risilla did some stuff um the ringer philly special was great.

Speaker 1 So if you want football stuff, I would steer you to the pieces and the podcasts we did. And sometimes it's just one of those weeks.
I really wanted to do a podcast on Tuesday night.

Speaker 1 I thought Durant was getting traded to Golden State, so I paused it and then the window passed. And we ended up doing a two-parter for today.
This is part two, first our friends from Pro Jim.

Speaker 1 Okay, so it's part two right now, officially. It was 1201

Speaker 1 PT,

Speaker 1 and we're going to talk a lot about the Lakers down the road once we know all the trades. The big thing we're waiting, oh, there's been another trade.

Speaker 1 Sean says, Indiana trading James Wiseman and cash to the Toronto Raptors.

Speaker 1 He can't walk. He blew out his Achilles.
So that's our first one.

Speaker 1 But we're on Grizzlies watch now because they're clearly up to something. They're dumping salary and creating cap room for some reason.
And roster spots, it feels like. Is it Cam Johnson, maybe?

Speaker 1 I mean, they've been linked to Cam Johnson for sure. He makes a lot of sense for them.
What are your Cam Johnson? What's your Cam Johnson feelings?

Speaker 1 Very much like him as a player. I think he has been now appropriately placed.
Now that we've had the Luca craziness, we've had DeAaron Fox, we've had Jimmy Butler, everything has cooled down.

Speaker 1 Cam Johnson is a really good player who could help a bunch of different teams, including the Memphis Grizzlies. And now that is the context in which he lives.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's not the kind of guy that you just stick him on a great wing and think, oh, it's going to be fine. He's not.
The D part of the 3 and D is. No.
I think we finally let it go.

Speaker 1 He shoots the hell out of the ball.

Speaker 1 Variety of ways to get a shot off, which I think is going to be important for Memphis. And he's respectable on defense.

Speaker 1 I like that we're putting him in the Grizzlies now. This is fun.
Yeah, I think Memphis, he's going to help them with shooting.

Speaker 1 If no one else, well, but this is the kind of thing where I don't know to what extent these conversations could be linked, but if the Bucs could have gotten it on Cam Johnson instead of Kyle Kuzma, like that, that's the kind of fit

Speaker 1 it honestly might be. Too high.

Speaker 1 Brooklyn just doesn't trade anymore. Kuzma's been kicking ass this year.

Speaker 1 You guys are going to ruin a day. Kuzma's just laughed about the Kyle Kuzma dude.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you can get a minus 59 plus minus in one game,

Speaker 1 you've really accomplished something.

Speaker 1 I have a quick next take before we find out the rest of the trades. Do they really need to do anything else? I kind of like Cam Johnson.
I kind of like Nick Claxton. They're going to suck anyway.

Speaker 1 They're going to be a bottom 10 team, which is their goal. And why not just keep those guys and keep them as assets for the

Speaker 1 for the for the summer? I would rather do that. I don't think there's a tremendous amount of urgency.
I think they do have the option to play out some things.

Speaker 1 There are a couple of guys like Cam Thomas is sort of the one that comes to mind. Do you really want to be paying free agent Cam Thomas?

Speaker 1 Probably not. But he's also a tougher sell for a lot of different teams in the first place.

Speaker 1 He has his own injury concerns that winning teams that are trying to contend right now might not want to take a flyer on something like that.

Speaker 1 So the guys that I look at for Brooklyn are more like, oh, is there not a way you can flip D-Lo again? Is there not a market for Cam Thomas? How do you really feel about De-Ron Sharp?

Speaker 1 I mean, why not? D'Lo and Schroeder, just they're just trading them for each other. Waz,

Speaker 1 I don't want to bring this up because I don't want to spoil the mood because we're having a good time.

Speaker 1 I know Ben Simmons being traded on trade deadline as an expiring contract was a dream for you.

Speaker 1 And it feels like the dream is dying right now. What would have been your dream Ben Simmons team?

Speaker 1 The dream Ben Simmons team. To the team that gets him and is like, I don't know.
We'll see what he has. Maybe he could be an S.
War of those teams, though.

Speaker 1 it's got to be like a charlotte it's got to be a portland it's got to be a team that's like going after portland nowhere

Speaker 1 portland right now they're on fire you know uh what like who is the team that says ben simmons let's take a flyer on this i was thinking with charlotte just losing their mind he would have been like a fun lamella ball kind of combo i mean they got time to kill at this point they got so much can i share something kind of funny with you guys after all of these moves the wizards are now officially over the first apron.

Speaker 1 I mean, when you have a chance to really pay out the notes for a roster, that is technically true at the moment. Just because they wanted to acquire 100 second-round picks.

Speaker 1 Took on a bunch of picks, took on a bunch of money. Congratulations to the Wizards for winning the first apron championship.
And if you're over the first apron, what does that do exactly?

Speaker 1 For them, basically nothing at the moment. It just kind of limits the ways in which you can acquire players.

Speaker 1 And I think by the time that the summer rolls over, enough of that money will come off that it won't prevent them from getting somebody an assigned trade or something like that.

Speaker 1 Apparently, Sean said on TV that they are not moving Kevin Durant, the Suns. Okay.

Speaker 1 I wonder if they were ever really interested in moving Kevin Durant. And I wonder if anyone in Ishbia's conference room was like,

Speaker 1 we're going to trade Kevin Durant and get Jimmy Butler back. What are we doing? No, I don't think that's why we're doing that.
That seemed like a pipe dream for the heat. If he was that guy,

Speaker 1 I think that was the Golden Strait State trade, though.

Speaker 1 That was their attempt, was to make it a three-way deal. But

Speaker 1 I think if he wanted to go to Golden State, I think that trade was probably happening in some form. And Phoenix was getting Butler and some

Speaker 1 maybe the protected pick from Golden State or whatever else. But if you are Phoenix as part of that, that's what we're saying.
Like the Beal for Butler conversation makes sense. The Durant

Speaker 1 lose Kevin Durant and replace him with Jimmy Butler. That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 I think they were going to do it, though.

Speaker 1 Which, if I was a Suns fan, I would just be alarmed. I think they should be alarmed for many reasons.
Yeah. You know, Rob, that's a great point.

Speaker 1 The Suns fans, fans, the alarms are going off either way.

Speaker 1 We do not have, the Knicks are not making a trade.

Speaker 1 So, all right. So let's start the Lakers part of this conversation.
And then if anything else happens, we'll just audible and stop and keep going. So the Lakers trade

Speaker 1 Connect.

Speaker 1 I don't know if he's going to get a 30 for 30 for his 50 Laker games or what's going to happen, but it was a roller coaster ride. He seemed like the steal of the draft.

Speaker 1 I think I have a a podcast somewhere where I was shitting on Miami for taking wear over Connect.

Speaker 1 It's probably somewhere in my archives. Let's just delete that.

Speaker 1 But so they turn Connect, Cam Reddish,

Speaker 1 who I think is just 24 years old for the next 10 years. I don't know if he ages.
And then a 2031 first and a swap. And they bring Mark Williams back.
The swap, whatever.

Speaker 1 Is Charlotte ever going to have? Yeah. Come on.

Speaker 1 And then

Speaker 1 the 2031 first for a team that is almost definitely going to have Luka Doncic on it. Maybe.
Probably.

Speaker 1 31 years old. Probably.

Speaker 1 I'm not doing backflips about that.

Speaker 1 Why would they trade Mark Williams, a young center who has really played well the last six weeks? Is this offer like just too good to refuse? What was it?

Speaker 1 I really like Mark Williams, the basketball player. Mark Williams, the injury risk, scares the hell out of me.
You mean the 85 career games in three years?

Speaker 1 He has played less than than 40% of his games and he's had three years. Like three ankle things.
He's had a back thing, broke his thumb, not his fault. The back thing was probably the most concerning.

Speaker 1 Then they said he had some sort of foot issue that they feel good about. So that's the risk.

Speaker 1 It's one of these things where I get why Charlotte would look at this offer and say, you know what, maybe we just get out of the Mark Williams business. We like him.
We like what he's brought.

Speaker 1 We like his potential, but ultimately, maybe he's just too risky. And between connect and the pick and the swap, that's enough value.
And I also honestly do get it from the Lakers.

Speaker 1 You know, they are not going to have many chances to take swings on players this young and this cheap contract. Contract like five, six million.

Speaker 1 Cheap contract, but it's going to come up sooner than you think because he's already been in the league and hurt for so long and is going to be just a hell of a lob target for Luka Donchic.

Speaker 1 Just an incredible finisher, already a pretty good rebounder, really needs to figure it out defensively. But as far as a team that can grow and build around Luka, that's a great place to start.
So

Speaker 1 we know this because we're on the West Coast, the East Coast teams that start playing at four o'clock in the afternoon here. And you're like, oh, basketball's on.
And then it's like Pistons, Hornets,

Speaker 1 Wizards, Hornets. Literally.

Speaker 1 And for whatever reason, most of the bad teams this year are in the East. And those are the teams playing at 4 o'clock.

Speaker 1 So there's some people probably talking out of their ass about Mark Williams, but I think we've all probably watched him.

Speaker 1 And I've definitely watched the Hornets recently and noticed how good Mark Williams was. And then there was a Denver game.
Jokic got all his stats, but Mark Williams was also getting stats.

Speaker 1 And I liked him coming out of college. Yeah.
I think one of the reasons they traded Nick Richards was they felt like he was ready to be a guy. And he was a guy.

Speaker 1 And he was like, lob guy, who knows with the defense. He's been on bad teams.
We have no idea. It's true.
Lob guy gets 2012 basically every night. And is exactly the kind of guy the Lakers needed.

Speaker 1 I thought it was a good trade. It gave up a lot, but I liked it.
I'm a little bit more lukewarm on it just because I think the price was high in terms of that 2031.

Speaker 1 Everybody's like looking at that as the one. And that is kind of their one shot.
Was like Dalton. I guess they still have Austin Reeves.

Speaker 1 They could move Reeves at some point, but Connect and the pick, and I guess to some extent, the swap were their primary catalyst. So I think that was pretty high.
And I think with Luca

Speaker 1 building around him, I think you should be thinking defense first. And Mark Williams is an offense first player.
We get it. He's a huge guy.

Speaker 1 Like, he's like in the Rudy Gobert category in terms of like length and size and all of that stuff. Uh, but he has never shown to be like a great defensive kind of guy in his limited ability.

Speaker 1 You know why he's never shown it? Because he's played 85 games.

Speaker 1 And that's it all makes sense. And that's the thing.
Like, maybe he's going to turn into this defensive monster, this rim-protecting beast that he hasn't shown yet because he does have the tools.

Speaker 1 He's not very mobile. But I just think with Luca, you should be thinking defense first and offense.

Speaker 1 Like with Luca, like you just don't have to be that great in order to make it work around everything that he does. And so that's the only he's like seven feet 250.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 He's a crazy athlete, like really, really athletic. And most importantly, he is not Jackson Hayes.
So huge upgrade right out of the gate.

Speaker 1 As you guys know, it's, it's, I have to always do a disclaimer. I hate the Lakers and I don't want them to succeed.

Speaker 1 I saw this trade. I thought they gave up a lot for a guy who we don't even has not even played 100 career games yet.
But deep down, I was like, fuck.

Speaker 1 Mark Williams is good. He's a good player.

Speaker 1 And I was just the fun, the Celtics fan side of me was like, fuck, that guy. So now I think about the Lakers in a series, and I really want to talk about this.

Speaker 1 Size,

Speaker 1 they're going to play with a certain pace with Luke and LeBron. Oh, slow.
It's going to be slow, methodical. They're going to be big.

Speaker 1 And it's the kind of team, if I'm OKC, I'm not pumped about playing. A team that's going to be able to try to dictate the pace against us, that's going to throw big bodies all over the place.

Speaker 1 And it's like, we're going to take Mark Williams out. Now, all of a sudden, we have LeBron, Luca, and Rui Hachimura as our bigs.

Speaker 1 Like, they're always going to have size and length basically everywhere except the point guard position. But I don't think in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 Even at the point, like Austin Reeves is a big point, or Luca, whoever you want to consider it. And in the playoffs, like Luca just might be the point guard.

Speaker 1 They might just be Luca, LeBron, two wings, and Mark Williams, and that's their crunch time lineup. I'd be really scared of this team in the playoffs.

Speaker 1 The only thing about the Lakers is you got to do have to think about the defense because it's like, is LeBron guarded threes full-time? You got Luca.

Speaker 1 He doesn't guard one, two, three, four, or fives. You got Austin Reeves.

Speaker 1 You got Mark Williams. Like, it's not the greatest offensive situation happening there, but like Luca and LeBron figuring out your little postseason defense, that's scary.
Yeah, when, you know,

Speaker 1 people try to zag on the trade. Like, how are those guys going to play together? They both have the ball all the time.
And it's like, I'm positive they're going to figure this out. Now we're in it.

Speaker 1 It's like, who figure out how to play off? Who has the smallest guy in them? You or me? Oh, you do. All right.
You're going to have the ball down. Bludging him to death.

Speaker 1 Also, low-key Luka, I thought, was a pretty good sport about playing off the ball more this season in general. Like, it actually started to make some meaningful improvement in that part of his game.

Speaker 1 LeBron can obviously do it. These are.
brilliant players. It's not going to be a problem in terms of the offense.
And you're right.

Speaker 1 The thing that we talk about is maybe the most important skill set in basketball is how do you break down half-court defense and can you score one-on-one against anybody

Speaker 1 they have guys who can do that at an incredibly high level two of the most brilliant basketball players of this century they're now together they have a team that the the worries were we don't have enough size how are we going to guard people

Speaker 1 you know vanderbilt Finney Smith, Phineas Smith,

Speaker 1 at least be like, all right, if we're playing some hot wing in a playoff series, do we have somebody that we can at least cover them with? They have that.

Speaker 1 I don't think they're going to be able to guard point guards at all. No.
So, like, you pick a point guard, that guy's done.

Speaker 1 You shouldn't play a team that wants to spread you out because, again, LeBron, Luca getting spread out.

Speaker 1 But first two runs in the playoffs, like it's, it's like three, four.

Speaker 1 It really doesn't get till conference finals when it's every other day. And I think they could make the conference finals.
Like, I can't believe how things have flipped.

Speaker 1 It makes me want to pull one of my kidneys out and whip it against the fucking wall. But they're going to be really hard to play.

Speaker 1 And if I look at like OKC, number one, who's number two for playoffs, who has the ability to do this, the Lakers are the first choice.

Speaker 1 Denver's still my first choice, but again, like you're going to have to pry Denver out of my cold, dying hands, right?

Speaker 1 So maybe they're 2B. Yeah.
Lakers, Denver, 2A, 2B.

Speaker 1 Houston is so young. The offense is like, you still got to make shots.
The Grizzlies are racers. No, the Grizzlies.
Come on.

Speaker 1 I think the Grizzlies are going to be really good,

Speaker 1 even in a playoff sector. They have lots of proof, as all these teams do, the Lakers included.
We need to see how the Lakers guard. Jaw is taking all this time off.
He's saving his body.

Speaker 1 I hope you're right.

Speaker 1 I hope you're right. That's where

Speaker 1 my train gets off.

Speaker 1 The Grizzlies? You know, with the Jaw thing.

Speaker 1 He's just not playing basketball enough. Got you.
And it feels like they're beholden to him and the potential of what he can do, but he's just not doing it regularly.

Speaker 1 And so I think that's probably the team that has

Speaker 1 the upside ceiling. Yes.
They could. But if I'm just betting, I'm taking Denver and the Lakers are the two.
Another Laker thing with this trade, I think they're betting majorly on free agency in 2026.

Speaker 1 And I looked at it. It is a blank.
You can look it up. It's like a bunch of older guys.
And the number one prize is Jaron Jackson, which

Speaker 1 I'm not doing. I'm not doing that.
I'm not putting the Laker jersey on Jaron Jackson. I'm just saying LeBron might be.
Seriously, was Jaron Jackson to the Lakers? LeBron might be done.

Speaker 1 Obviously, he's good.

Speaker 1 Did he grew up a Laker fan?

Speaker 1 No, no, no, no. I'm just saying he is the main target of pretty much every team in the league at this point.

Speaker 1 But I think that's why they did the smart trade, though, because I think Memphis is trying to give him a massive extension. By the way, he might be an all-NBA guy.
I think he's in the running force.

Speaker 1 He's of tremendous season. But the rest of the guys in 2026, which I think the Lakers are also banking on, that they're going to bring in a major talent in 2026 as well that summer.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Let's take a, we'll take a quick break for the podcast.

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Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Prime Video. It's Bill Simmons here.
The NBA and Prime is back this Friday with another great Emirates NBA Cup doubleheader.

Speaker 1 The night starts with Pascal Siakam and the Indiana Pacers meeting Donovan Mitchell and the very good Cleveland Cavaliers. And then let's go down to Texas.

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See Amazon.com/slash Amazon Prime for details. I'm going to read you

Speaker 1 the Western Conference odds.

Speaker 1 OKC is plus 105.

Speaker 1 Who do you think is the number two best odds in the West right now? Probably the Lakers, just because everyone bets on the Lakers, I I would think. What do you have, Wes?

Speaker 1 I would go

Speaker 1 Memphis.

Speaker 1 So Denver is second at 6-1.

Speaker 1 Who do you think is number three?

Speaker 1 I mean, I'm assuming it's. I'm just going to keep saying the Lakers until they show up.

Speaker 1 Lakers plus 750. So basically, what we said before,

Speaker 1 the gambling public also agrees. Grizzlies are fourth.

Speaker 1 People seen that Luca trade and just said, yeah, I need it. Grizzlies fourth at 11-1.

Speaker 1 houston i'm sorry clippers 16 to 1 and this is to win the west win the west the clippers are above the rockets to win the west 18-1 you know why they're above the rockets because everyone's seen these crunch time fred van bleet plays nobody can watch them anymore how many how many how many terrible step back threes can you have in one season leave fred alone how many i like fred but how is that your offense at the end of the game it shouldn't be it shouldn't be he's he's turned out to be like quite critical to making them functional

Speaker 1 do they draw those up in the huddle? I don't think that's a good thing. I'm thinking Fred stepped back three again.

Speaker 1 We're only down two. He's miscast in his role as number one crunch time.
I think he thinks he's the guy in the team, though. But often, like, who is going to create...

Speaker 1 I'm just spreading the floor for Thompson and just get to the basket somehow. Maybe that's where they get to.
Just get to the basket. Emei can't.

Speaker 1 He's not going to bring himself to be like, a men Thompson is now our freaking crunch time score. Or Jalen Green, one of those guys.
Spread the floor for one of them.

Speaker 1 Jalen Green is the one who post-step Sheng Goon. You lost me at Jalen Green.
Look, he's had great moments. I've always hated Jalen Green.

Speaker 1 I'm just going to the basket over the friend Dan Breen step back. I can't do it again.
I feel that. I feel that.
I think Amen right now is thriving in chaos.

Speaker 1 Anytime the floor is unstable, unbalanced, unsettled, he's so good. Set half-court defense coming out of a timeout drive with a guy right in your face, not quite his game yet.
Houston, 18-1.

Speaker 1 Golden State, 20-1.

Speaker 1 Minnesota, 23-1. Interesting, because they have a chance to be a top five.

Speaker 1 I want to say this too. There's a difference, I would say, between the odds to win the West and the odds to also make the conference finals alongside the Thunder.

Speaker 1 I don't think Memphis can beat OKC in a way that you can talk yourself into the Lakers. You can talk yourself into Denver.
You can see the way their advantages profile.

Speaker 1 The size advantage and the sort of mind advantage of, you know,

Speaker 1 out executing this really young team who still only ever done the second round last year. You can see yourself.
Memphis is not going to have the IQ advantage in any series that carry it.

Speaker 1 It's just not going to be the case. They're super young and relying on dudes that have never been there.
So, I haven't done a podcast since Sunday night with Goldsbury,

Speaker 1 and definitely not since the press conference, which I know I think you guys talked about. Didn't you guys talk about that?

Speaker 1 Yeah, yeah, the Nico Harrison press conference, no, the Luca press conference. Oh, sure, yeah, yeah.
Well, actually, we didn't talk about that. We didn't talk about that, we didn't talk about that.

Speaker 1 No, no, no,

Speaker 1 so talk leather jackets, or what? What do you want? What do you want to do? I've been obviously like you guys, talking talking a lot about this Luca trade the last few days. And

Speaker 1 so if you're in the room with Nico Harrison

Speaker 1 and he brings, first of all, let's live in the facade of the world where nobody knew about this trade except Nico Harrison, the Mavs owner, Genie Buss, and Polinka.

Speaker 1 We'll be in that pretend world where LeBron didn't know and Rich Paul didn't know and Jason Kidd didn't know. We'll be in that pretend world that didn't actually exist.

Speaker 1 And you're actually in the room and Nico Harrison is like, getting close, we might do this. Did anyone around him at some point say,

Speaker 1 don't do this? You're going to trade Luca to the Lakers.

Speaker 1 All the things that frustrate you about him, all you're doing is putting a giant fucking chip on his shoulder and he's going to turn into Liam Neeson in the second half of take-in and be fucking awesome for the Lakers.

Speaker 1 You have to factor that in the trade. You're not trading this guy now who has 280 pounds in December.
And, you know,

Speaker 1 maybe he's kind of a dick to people. Who knows? Who knows what the reasons are?

Speaker 1 But just, this is what, this is what would be the result of the trade is this fucking maniac on the Lakers trying to get his vengeance year after year on you and the Mavs. Don't do this.

Speaker 1 I don't think anyone said that to him.

Speaker 1 I think

Speaker 1 the Luca

Speaker 1 having issues with his body and his conditioning. He's 25.
It bothers people who

Speaker 1 Jason Kidd, who was a great player himself, been around greatness, hyper-competitive guy,

Speaker 1 has, yo, talk about calling Luca out.

Speaker 1 Nobody in the history of Luca's career has done more publicly to call Luca. I remember him saying, I'm not the savior.
I'm not the one who people call the savior of the franchise. Like, Jason Kidd

Speaker 1 and Nico Harrison, who, again, is a big Kobe guy. And you think about the way Kobe comported himself and took his superstard so seriously.
Eventually came to comport himself.

Speaker 1 Didn't start out that way. Yeah, the revisionist history was that

Speaker 1 We've just thrown out the entire mid-2000s.

Speaker 1 But that's the thing, though. Like, he was around Kobe when he was that maniacal person.

Speaker 1 I think there's just like a boy king factor where it's, you just feel like this, we can't get Luca to do these things now. Why when we guarantee him $350 million, is he going to do it?

Speaker 1 Because he's Luka Dossic.

Speaker 1 Because he's off to one of the best five starts in the first seven years.

Speaker 1 I'm playing devil's advocate here. I could see a bunch of hyper-competitive people being like, this guy's just the next Embi'd.
He's never going to do the requisite things to get his body in check.

Speaker 1 He's never going to actually be on the floor for us. We get it.
He took us to the finals, but he just doesn't care enough about this extra stuff. And so let's get out of this business.
I don't agree.

Speaker 1 That's just, it's such a narrow view of what greatness looks like.

Speaker 1 It basically has to look like Kobe Bryant's.

Speaker 1 like basically fake workout i don't i disagree look at steph curry look at lebron look at um Jokic.

Speaker 1 Look at what he did to get his conditioning and all of his stuff right. Like, the best players actually do this.

Speaker 1 I don't disagree with you, but like, you could look at Giannis's injury history. And that's a guy who takes great care of himself, who puts incredible work on his game, on his body.

Speaker 1 Some guys get hurt. And some guys get hurt for reasons that have nothing really to do with whatever their conditioning is or whatever state their body is in.

Speaker 1 And honestly, the problem with the Embiid comp, and it's come up a lot. Like, this is sort of the primary defense you hear is a Joe Elkin Embiid comparison for Luca.

Speaker 1 And he plays half of the games in his career. Also, Luca has already, Luca at his best, is better than Joe Elk and Beat has ever been.

Speaker 1 And he has done more in the playoffs than Joel. And he went to the finals nine months ago.
Nine months ago. That's the thing.

Speaker 1 Going to the finals is the thing for me. It's like

Speaker 1 he's put it on the floor. Like that he has it in him to carry a team to the freaking finals.
Like, he's 25.

Speaker 1 He's 25.

Speaker 1 He's not the person, human being, slash work at the guy he's going to be.

Speaker 1 We've seen people, I know I made a shitload of mistakes in my mid-20s. I'm sure you guys did too, things you would take back.

Speaker 1 We've seen it with athletes over and over again, including Kobe Bryant, by the way.

Speaker 1 Mid-20s aren't, if the talent is there and the competitiveness is there, which it has been the entire time with this dude, and your only thing is, I wish he was in better shape.

Speaker 1 I wish maybe he treated people around here a little bit better. Like, those aren't real reasons to trade him.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I just think they did him the all-time favor. You could see in the press conference, he looked miserable.
He looked shell-shocked.

Speaker 1 He looked like he couldn't believe this happened. And I just think

Speaker 1 maybe it's because I'm older and I've been down this road a few times in sports. Like I just think he's, I would bet anything he's going to be awesome on the Lakers.

Speaker 1 I just think this is the kind of thing sometimes guys need. It's like the cattle prod.

Speaker 1 And that's it.

Speaker 1 And again, they're bet, the Mavericks have effectively bet, not just by trading away Luca, but by bringing back a Lakers pick as the primary future return of the deal that this will not work.

Speaker 1 Or that he's going to leave. Or that he's going to leave.

Speaker 1 I think both of those things are bad bets. And to put yourself in Luca's shoes.
Oh, no. Oh, boy.
Oh, my God.

Speaker 1 Conspiracy bill is back.

Speaker 1 It's almost like they think he's headed somewhere in the summer of 2026.

Speaker 1 And that's why they wanted that 20. But also,

Speaker 1 they and Luca have said. It's almost like they're, it's like a, like know something.

Speaker 1 They're on Negro Harrison is now on the record as saying there was no indication that Luca from him or any of his representatives would not have taken the Super Max.

Speaker 1 But he's kind of talked out of both sides of his mouth on the Super Max.

Speaker 1 Luca also basically laughed at the question when it was presented to him of, did you ever say that you were not going to take the Super Max? Like, why would he turn down? over $100 million

Speaker 1 to continue playing for the team that he just took to the NBA family. So a couple guys have

Speaker 1 Florida? Maybe. A.D.
did

Speaker 1 A.D.

Speaker 1 asked for his trade before he could sign his big Supermax in New Orleans. Kawhi did it to San Antonio.
So there are guys who have done it before.

Speaker 1 There's no indication that Luca was headed down that path. That's just the thing.
We have no evidence.

Speaker 1 We have so little evidence or justification for this trade. You have to invent reasons why it could be faster.

Speaker 1 Also, our memories are kind of short, too, because remember before the the the gafford deal the pj washington deal that was like a big part of the chatter around luca dallas needs to do something right now to prove to luca don't that he needs to stay here but so it wasn't that long that's like the lazy nba discourse of they got him

Speaker 1 man i think it was people that were plugged in with like they need to prove to the god that they're building a winner that was a big part of is it possible luca is just not from this country and sometimes a organization of mostly American people that couldn't really get a handle on a guy from Slavinia.

Speaker 1 Like, does it seem like Denver has a handle on Jokic?

Speaker 1 I mean, Nicole Jokic could retire this summer, but I wouldn't be surprised. It would be surprising to anybody who is even remotely associated with the Nuggets.

Speaker 1 They're like, that guy could fucking retire in two months and none of us would be shocked.

Speaker 1 And his jersey would go up in the rafters and it'd still be one of the greatest players of all time. Like, we're doing the two, like, no, I get it.
I'm just saying.

Speaker 1 But I'm saying, obviously,

Speaker 1 but there was a disconnect with the organization and their best player. And it's come out ever since.
And they had no problem.

Speaker 1 problem yeah especially when they realized how unpopular the trade was they had no problem leaking stuff out left and right including stuff i'm not going to say in the pod but the uh the

Speaker 1 the the fact that they kept this trade secret because they knew their fans were going to be so upset about it yeah that the moment it leaked there was going to be such a reaction against it that the owners would have backed out should tell you you're making the wrong trade.

Speaker 1 Probably should.

Speaker 1 That's all I need to know. It's like, hey, we have to keep this between us.
It can't get out. Why can't it get out? What would be the bad thing about it getting out?

Speaker 1 Because then more teams would offer stuff for Luka Doncic. No, it can't get out because you don't want the MAPS fan base to have a riot outside the arena.
Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 Again, I personally would have signed the guy, then tried to move him if I hated his work professional work habits so much. That's what I think they should have did.

Speaker 1 However, if you are of the mind, you put together a team that went to the finals last year, you have a a guy who cannot play, and you think if you bring in an all-NBA-level player, that you are going to continue to be a championship-worthy type of squad.

Speaker 1 I don't agree, but I don't think it's the craziest thing that you could say.

Speaker 1 It is a little bit if you put the ages of those players

Speaker 1 into the conversation.

Speaker 1 If you're prioritizing this year, looping Luca and his agent and everybody in does not help you. They start telling teams, no, don't do it.
No, don't. Just like the Anthony Davis, New Orleans.

Speaker 1 It actually does start to handy

Speaker 1 the amount of teams

Speaker 1 you can go about moving. So if you're going on Nico Harrison's idea of how good Dallas could be this year, it actually makes sense.
I just think he's wrong.

Speaker 1 He's in France with David Kahn in like two years.

Speaker 1 That's where it's headed for him. What gets me about this is

Speaker 1 you don't trade Luka Doncic, period. That's a failure.

Speaker 1 The decision to trade him because you don't like what basically are these puffs of smoke about his work habits and his conditioning, not real, actual basketball.

Speaker 1 Well, and then also in the finals last year when Windhorst had the ran after game three, because Luca acted immaturely and

Speaker 1 absolutely, that absolutely happens. The real thing, that's a part of his game.
I still would not trade him for any of those reasons. If you did decide to trade him, keeping it secret,

Speaker 1 not lobbying offers. And I hear you that for this season, that would be complicated.

Speaker 1 So play out this season, a season in which Luka Doncic is going to be a better basketball player than Anthony Davis, provided that he's healthy and back on the court. Play it out.

Speaker 1 And then once you get him under contract for the Supermax,

Speaker 1 ask for offering it.

Speaker 1 But then that becomes another thing. Like,

Speaker 1 you can't bring Luka Doncic back after you put him on the fifth market. If your assumption is that he wants to leave, then it's all part of the

Speaker 1 scare. It's a scare tactic.
Can we bring back in conspiracy buildings? Yeah, let's do it one more time.

Speaker 1 So it's getting a workout today.

Speaker 1 So the Mavs,

Speaker 1 Cuban sells the team, which was fishy to begin with. He was always like, I'm Mavs owner for life.
Then all of a sudden he's like, yeah, I'm selling.

Speaker 1 Sells it to this Vegas group that has gambling ties, all this stuff. The league green lights it.
Did the league say,

Speaker 1 this is why Conspiracy Bill is sometimes he's on crack.

Speaker 1 Did the league say, we'll green light the team, but you got to trade Luca to the Lakers in two years?

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 that's.

Speaker 1 This is coming from a place of deep hurt. I can tell.
Conspiracy Bill, also wearing green.

Speaker 1 This is Q Dunn. Q Dun Bill is here.
That is another part of this that's like Mav's ownership group is completely out to lunch on this. Or are they? Or are they

Speaker 1 having a bunch? How do you put your stamp of approval

Speaker 1 or

Speaker 1 are they hoping they just swap teams with the Vegas expansion in a couple of years and get the F out of Dallas? I don't, I mean, Vegas in terms of a market is not even close to Dallas.

Speaker 1 Not even comparable market sizes.

Speaker 1 No. Planet.
Like Vegas need to be comparing themselves to Memphis. It's funny that this trade happened five days ago and we're still struggling to understand a reason.

Speaker 1 We're at the level of like looking at the Texas state legislative calendar to figure out when

Speaker 1 betting should become legal. You realize what's going to happen like five days from now, seven days from now, Luca's going to have like 59 points in a game.

Speaker 1 And people are going to be like, What just happened?

Speaker 1 How did we allow this trade? We're going to move into that.

Speaker 1 Have you seen the Anthony Edwards sound? Where he's just like, guys,

Speaker 1 he kicked our asses to get to the finals. This guy is a stone-cold killer.
Yeah. That's 80% of the time.
I don't want a trade block. If this guy can't be trade, like, bro, please don't trade me.

Speaker 1 If you could trade Luka Doncic.

Speaker 1 So his next games, he's so if he comes back Saturday, that's

Speaker 1 being a minute. I believe he's expected to come back Saturday at this point.
But figure, so the rest of the schedule is Indiana, Utah, at Utah.

Speaker 1 home charlotte february 19th that has 70 written all over it at portland at denver home dallas oh my god home dallas yeah i think they have two games left so february 25th dallas and then minnesota clippers he's gonna have like 59 in one of those there's gonna be a game when we just all lose our minds that this happened by the way he had a tough start to the season for luca standards yeah felt like he wasn't you know didn't come to camp and you know i lot it's a guys best shape of my life, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1 Timps in body fat. We didn't hear any of those rumors about Luca coming into camp.
But the tough start is 28, 8, and 8. Yeah.
That's a tough start for Luca Donches, you know.

Speaker 1 That's 33.9-9 in the conference finals last year. What are we doing?

Speaker 1 What are we doing? Yeah, Trader just got to the Lakers.

Speaker 1 Oh, God. My dad called me the next because he was asleep in the trade happened.
My dad was miserable. He was terrified of Luca in the finals, and he hates the Lakers more than I do.

Speaker 1 And he just, he said he got all these texts, and he woke up the next day and thought, thought we made a trade, the Celtics, and then saw that was a trade.

Speaker 1 He was like, I don't, like, how did they not stop this? Like,

Speaker 1 yeah, now we have to deal with Luca, who's going to be pissed off and humbled. And

Speaker 1 big picture.

Speaker 1 I don't want to see them in a playoff series if I'm anyone in the West. No.
And that has changed. I would not have said that about the Lakers three weeks ago.

Speaker 1 That Knicks game when LeBron was starting to look better. I was like, oh, when Davis comes back, this team's interesting.
I could see them maybe winning around and throwing some punches in round two.

Speaker 1 And now this is the team that LeBron James at age 40 now has a chance to make the finals again. Well, it's a classic like Anthony Davis raises your floor.
Luka Doncich raises the fuck out of your CD.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he knocks out the CNN completely. And you have no idea what took.

Speaker 1 And Denver, OKC are the only two teams you can credibly say Luca won't be the best player in the series, head and shoulders, by the way. And then, you know, he's got LeBron backing him up.

Speaker 1 Pretty good. Pretty, pretty good.
Yeah, and you go through the rest of the West.

Speaker 1 I like this Clippers team, but

Speaker 1 the fact that they went backwards, I don't harden in a playoff series. I don't see it.
Minnesota, mess.

Speaker 1 Phoenix, no way.

Speaker 1 Dallas as a possible wild card, and Golden State as a possible wild card. And that's really it, unless Wemby just

Speaker 1 does something absolutely all-time insane. It would be shocking.
Not shocking if the Soros make the playoffs. If they advance, it would be pretty surprising.
It would be a huge mega upset.

Speaker 1 They have so many young guys. They need to learn a lot.
The Warriors are a team that I could envision making it through to the second round.

Speaker 1 Not a run-run, but keeping competitive, scaring somebody a little bit. That could be a thing.
Jimmy Butler was something to prove. Yep.
It's something I want to bet on. Quinn Post.
Woz.

Speaker 1 Quinn Post.

Speaker 1 Waz, can you walk us through the Jimmy Butler, Draymond Green text messages?

Speaker 1 A lot of profanity. What Draymond does sends the first text, right?

Speaker 1 Definitely, Draymond sends the first text. Like a let's get it exclamation point.

Speaker 1 It's more like we're going to rip people's faces off, chew them up, spit them out, kill them. They're a bunch of P-words.

Speaker 1 These guys have nothing on us. It's about time we got together.
Like, we're talking about two of the ultimate confidence maniacs that have ever existed

Speaker 1 in the the NBA, they I think were together in the 2016 Olympics.

Speaker 1 I think they're good. I'm not worried.
Like, I see a lot of chatter about, oh my God, these two big personalities.

Speaker 1 The people Jimmy Butler doesn't like are not the Draymond Green types.

Speaker 1 They're the people that he sees as like timid or unreliable. And like Draymond shows up.
Andrew Wiggins type. The young Andrew Wiggins.
Yes.

Speaker 1 Pre-Warriors Revolution Andrew Wiggins. Yeah, he's like.
like,

Speaker 1 I think it'll be fine. I would say Draymond's short-term, probably a bigger risk to everything than Butler because I think Butler would be in his best behavior for the season at the very least.

Speaker 1 And he'll probably have to come to Golden State.

Speaker 1 Maybe he'll launch a podcast with the ringer. Who knows? Invest in AI, bring him in.
Move some coffee. He's got some stuff.

Speaker 1 Maybe invest in Draymond Green's restaurant. He can get his agent on a podcast.
Bernie. That guy's got a lot of character of the year.

Speaker 1 So if you had wild card teams and I gave you Golden State and I gave you Dallas

Speaker 1 for one of those two teams will be in the Western Finals, which one would you pick? Golden State. I would take Golden State.
Over Dallas. Golden State.

Speaker 1 So you just think that the stink of this trade is going to submarine Dallas this season?

Speaker 1 Like Jimmy Butler and Steph's playoff pedigree and like level that these guys have gotten to, even if they don't get to what they've been, anywhere in that neighborhood is just

Speaker 1 enough. I think the part that, I mean, Nico Harrison, there are many parts he missed with the trade.
I don't think he realized what a distraction slash disaster slash running,

Speaker 1 running story this was going to be, especially if Luka starts playing well for the Lakers. Oh, yeah.
It's going to single-handedly submarine their season, I think.

Speaker 1 It's going to follow him and the team for the rest of his career as a general manager, I would think. We'll see what it ends up doing to the Mavs.

Speaker 1 My concern is not just, oh, you gave away Luka Doncic. It's really hard to make long playoff runs when you basically have no plus-level passers on your roster.

Speaker 1 And if you look at what the Mavs lineup is going to be now, AD at the four, either Lively or Gafford at the five, Kyrie is now your primary and basically only creator. Kay Thompson, PJ Washington.

Speaker 1 How are you breaking people down beyond Kyrie just going to be a lot of fun? That's one of the funniest things about the trade is that they built this whole roster around Luca.

Speaker 1 All these dudes that were meant to fit with him, and then they trade Luca.

Speaker 1 And like, even those lineups where you're benching both Lively and Gafford, and you're playing AD at his most optimal position, it's still Kyrie making that pick and roll happen. And that's just not.

Speaker 1 And Kyrie, we know, and I think Kyrie's been really good the last couple years, but he's lost his stuff.

Speaker 1 I also think you can, like the Celtics, the big thing when Luca felled out in game three, and it was like, all right, Kyrie, take us home. The Celtics shut him down.

Speaker 1 And you can shut him down with wings and size. And if you know he's getting the ball, it's not the same Kyrie from five, six years ago.
Davis,

Speaker 1 you know, Davis can be overpowering. Maybe he'll have a chip on his shoulder.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 Depending on the matchup, like there's matchups that he overwhelms where like he can be that one-on-one guy, but for, you know, for the most part, it's not going to happen.

Speaker 1 Bill Smith. I'm going to pick my fourth.
I'm very upset about the Luca trade.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know if it's because I'm older and I just know how it's going to play out because I've seen it.

Speaker 1 But, you know, same, like, it was similar to when Shaq got traded to Miami and it was like, Shaq's out of shape. Shaq's fat.
And it's like, cool.

Speaker 1 He's not going to be fat anymore because you pissed him off. And then he went to Miami and he had two awesome years for them.

Speaker 1 If I had to go four West teams that I don't think are going to make it,

Speaker 1 San Antonio,

Speaker 1 Sacramento.

Speaker 1 Those are my odd men out.

Speaker 1 Phoenix.

Speaker 1 Dallas, because

Speaker 1 I think the

Speaker 1 karma and all that shit from the trade. Those would be my fourth team.

Speaker 1 Guy Rita goes down for two weeks. And he has a bulging disc in his back at this point.

Speaker 1 PJ Washington is going to be creating offense.

Speaker 1 You know, like Spencer Dinwiddie, it's cool. Spencer Dinwiddie, who's been a nice backup this year, by the way.
But he got signed for a minimum contract for a reason. Like, I like Spencer Diddy.

Speaker 1 Diddy. Spencer Dinwiddie.

Speaker 1 But I just, I can't. You're going to have to edit that out of the pod.
Excellent. They said Diddy.
I'm not even sure we're allowed to say that on a podcast. I think the Clippers might slide out.

Speaker 1 I say that with all due respect to

Speaker 1 all due respect to the season they've had. I just think they could be a candidate.
They're overachieving like hell. Yeah.
I think they probably will end up as a play-in team, but maybe get bounced.

Speaker 1 And they haven't had one part of the season where they've had like lose five out of seven or like they haven't done that. They've just been consistently solid all year.
They'll do.

Speaker 1 Philadelphia, before we go.

Speaker 1 Just seem like they're shedding salary, maybe to pay Yabu in the summer. As they should.
Most popular sixer

Speaker 1 for points.

Speaker 1 One of their best colleagues. Going to make the play-in.

Speaker 1 Are they? Yes. Wes, how'd you feel about Embiid missing the Boston and Denver games, but being ready for Dallas and Daniel Gafford and Luca? I like him.
He's always like for the big regular season.

Speaker 1 Did that jump out of you or no?

Speaker 1 The Dallas game is ready. Look, man,

Speaker 1 this really, i feel very very privileged to be at the table with two bona fide and beat skeptics for a long long time

Speaker 1 just play basketball it's what are my rules i'm your basketball player play basketball i gotta give it up to my guy ben golliver he was actually the first person to point this out to me he's like all this that nobody like it's never his fault is is is tobias harris it's it's ben simmons it's bread brown brett brown it's sam hinkey it's it's it's always somebody else's fault and now everybody's like the bill has come due.

Speaker 1 Yeah, it's tough. But no,

Speaker 1 the Bulls are in the 10th seed, and they're one game above the Sixes right now. They're done.
That's fair. The Bulls season is.

Speaker 1 You don't think Pat Williams is going to save these guys? I don't think Pat Williams is coming to the rescue. At the Hawks are...
Counter. Counter? What was that? I like Budzellas.

Speaker 1 Well, sure. But do you like him as a player who's going to cement a play-in? I wonder if they can patch together a lot of Levine's stats with the guys they have.

Speaker 1 If lonzo can play more minutes if butzellis can be pretty good

Speaker 1 um they kept vucevic they did i think it's just a kobe white just could kobe white get more like i i do feel like they can patch together 24 points a game from other people i think the bulls are done and i don't think they want to be you know well they want to be in the bottom 10 right that's one of the teams that has the they have the incentive

Speaker 1 But, you know, they got their pick back. They did get their pick back.
They got their pickbacks. Nothing sweeter.

Speaker 1 Well, I mean, so Philly beats. If you love something, let it go.
It comes back. Yeah.

Speaker 1 Philly beats Dallas and B looks good. Doesn't play the next night against Miami.
And they end up losing to Miami by seven. Paul George didn't play either.

Speaker 1 Oh, no, he played 32 minutes and had nine points and one rebound and two assists.

Speaker 1 Smack in the year. Worst contracts in the league this year.
You fucking better believe we are.

Speaker 1 He's in the running for number one pick. That's tough.

Speaker 1 Newly minted too. Not even didn't take any time to age into milk.

Speaker 1 You know, just he's there's a Twitter account, Twitter account that just says, I, that, like, the name in the account is, I don't understand why you're not playing tonight.

Speaker 1 And it could just be like, John Rance not playing because,

Speaker 1 you know, his heel hurts. Paul George, knee rest maintenance.
Like these excuses these dudes have. The Paul George thing's really rough.

Speaker 1 They did get Quentin Grimes.

Speaker 1 I don't like, as far as trading Caleb Martin for Quentin Grimes, a better, younger player. Yeah, I didn't understand that trade for

Speaker 1 Dallas aside.

Speaker 1 That's when I started getting scared for Nico Harris. Well, Jason Kidd hasn't trusted Grimes all year.
At least that's the way it appears. Like, he doesn't have any

Speaker 1 cheap school. But he can guard.
He can guard. He can play.
I thought he's off the dribble game. It's actually been pretty useful.

Speaker 1 I never really got why he wasn't more of like a fixture in the rotation. I'm pretty sure I fell in love with Quentin Grimes the same summer league.
I thought Matt McClung could stick on a team.

Speaker 1 That dream is still alive.

Speaker 1 Osceola Magic stand up.

Speaker 1 Wuz, how are you feeling with all the Lakers moving?

Speaker 1 Is there a spot for Bronny now in the 10-minute rotation or no?

Speaker 1 Still got to pay his dues in the G-League.

Speaker 1 Probably won't be on the playoff roster. Okay.
But it's early. He signed a four-year deal, Bill.

Speaker 1 It's a marathon, not a sprint. It's a marathon, not a sprint with the great Bronnie James.

Speaker 1 Any last things before we go, Rob?

Speaker 1 I just can't believe we're still here with the Suns.

Speaker 1 I can't believe they didn't, like, they move Yusuf Nurkic, all that spinning of their wheels, and we're just going to have to watch them try to get better by doing what exactly? I don't know. Ryan?

Speaker 1 7KD more regular.

Speaker 1 I mean, he's been pretty healthy. Like, I know he's out with the ankle thing right now, but like, had pretty good health by Kevin Durant, modern standards.

Speaker 1 I guess you're just banking on some members of your rotation to play better, to somehow guard better.

Speaker 1 I just, I'm, i'm very disappointed by where phoenix season has ended up at this point well i mean it could be worse they could have given away mikhail bridges and cam johnson seven first-round picks

Speaker 1 to get there they could have i still i'll never get over them just throwing cam johnson in that trade on top of everything else they were giving up and and then ishbab was we got to get him all right fine throw in cam johnson like that part was nuts he was thirsty man he had that new owner thirst he had that look it's great it's the opposite of the look that new owners of the mavericks have

Speaker 1 i've never to antagonize the fan base i've never i've never seen anything like it yeah you know a few mavs fans all they're devastated like there's i've never seen a fan base this inconsolable and i get it i completely get it also like if you know anything about their new owner she's like

Speaker 1 Got her hands in things. She's got her hands.
Yeah. There's a lot involved.
More than basketball. I want to say a busy woman.

Speaker 1 As far as the fan base part of it goes, I thought Josh Bo of Mavs Money Ball made a point that I thought was really well stated, which is that part of what makes this really hard if you're a Mavs fan is that you, for this trade to be successful for the Mavs, you basically have to root against Luca.

Speaker 1 Like Luca has to fail for this to be a Maverick success. And this is the guy they've invested so much time, so much attention, so much like fan adoration in.

Speaker 1 And now you have to actively root against that guy if you want the Mavericks to be good again.

Speaker 1 I just don't get it.

Speaker 1 I just don't understand it. You and us and the rest of the NBA.
I just don't get it.

Speaker 1 And the sad thing is,

Speaker 1 at least for me, loves the Celtics.

Speaker 1 I think he's going to be awesome on the Lakers. I think the fans are going to love him.
Oh, my God. There's always been a weird LeBron thing because he followed Kobe because he wasn't a Laker.

Speaker 1 No baggage for Luca.

Speaker 1 It's zero. It's like, I had a couple people.

Speaker 1 say to me that it was like their version of like when JFK got shot like hearing the news like no remember I mean, in a good way. Damn.

Speaker 1 No, no, in a good way, where they'll always remember where they were. I was at dinner and I got a text.
Like, it's like one of those trades that you

Speaker 1 remember for the rest of your life. There are other points in history we could refer to.
What's up?

Speaker 1 Other than JFK getting shot. Me, it evoked the decision.
Okay. Me, yes.
Like, I'm going to remember exactly. But we knew the decision was coming.
Yeah. And we knew Miami was possible.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 But I just remember looking at it. Stephen A.
was on the

Speaker 1 like LeBron is on the Miami Heat. This is with D-Wade and Chris Bosch.
It was just brought to you by vitamin water.

Speaker 1 Yeah, normally, normally when you're in the middle of the man Jim Gray, normally when you remember where you were, it's usually because something terrible happened or something completely insane happened.

Speaker 1 Like, I remember where I watched the second Holyfield Tyson fight. You know, it was like, this is insane.
I'll always remember this.

Speaker 1 But the Luca out of nowhere, just hanging out on the couch with my wife, about to start a movie on a Saturday night,

Speaker 1 and then just trying to decipher what was real for 10 minutes. Like for 10 minutes trying to, and Sean's having to reassure people that the trade happened telling the truth.

Speaker 1 There's never going to be another movie like that. Because we had some other weird shit in the NBA this last decade.

Speaker 1 Like we had that, a really fun one was the DeAndre Jordan to the Mavericks and then he wasn't going to go to the next crisis. Yes.
The Anthony Davis, not Anthony Davis, Kawhi Leonard,

Speaker 1 Lakers or Clippers. And then on that Friday night, all of a sudden it was Paul George too.

Speaker 1 But never without warning yeah and i think like i was saying like people are making lists about was this the craziest sports trade ever i'm not going to compare this to the red sock trading babe ruth to the yankees that's crazy sure but it's certainly like since we've all been working together the craziest thing that's happened I think it's the craziest trade that's happened since I've had like a column or a podcast.

Speaker 1 So that's 30 years. Well, it's also the craziest.
Like you can't compare it to something like the Babe Ruth trade for obvious reasons, but also we are so trade-pilled now.

Speaker 1 Yeah, no trade makes like you would just say, Jimmy Butler, who cares? I don't need to do an emergency podcast. Like, no trade shocks you.

Speaker 1 Well, when a deal goes down, it's like, oh, we already know the three players who are probably involved for salary reasons. We've worked it out.
It's been trade machined to death.

Speaker 1 If you're one of the apron teams, we basically already know what the deal is going to be by the time it's made. This was a complete shock in an inexplicable move.
Player for player.

Speaker 1 Pick exchanged.

Speaker 1 Done. Yep.
It's going to go great. We had some good ones in the 90s, and it kind of brought me back.

Speaker 1 Like, I remember being on the phone with House after they traded Chris Weber for Mitch Richmond, and he was just disconsolate.

Speaker 1 Even though Chris Weber was kind of a disaster on the Wizards, but it was still one of those trades where you just knew the upside for us is we might win round one, and the downside is Chris Weber might go to the Kings and be awesome.

Speaker 1 He's like 25, and this was like a hundred times worse than that.

Speaker 1 One of those for me that I vaguely remember is the Knicks getting spree well

Speaker 1 because it it was his first team after he choked out J. Carlisso.

Speaker 1 And it was like, wow, New York media was not behind him.

Speaker 1 Just so you know, they weren't crazy about it, but like, I just remember being like, damn, they got Spreewell. That's, that's nuts.

Speaker 1 Couple questions from the chat before we go. Someone asks,

Speaker 1 How is LeBron going to handle not being the most popular guy on his own basketball team, which has never happened before? So not being the most powerful guy. He is.
That's a change.

Speaker 1 He is less relevant. This is the first time he's been less relevant than somebody in his organization ever, besides Pat Raleigh.
That's it.

Speaker 1 That's the only other time he's been on a team where there's a guy who's clearly above him in the pecking order in terms of like, you can't tell ownership, anything.

Speaker 1 Like, there's nothing you can do about this guy. Luca, like, you, you're, you're irrelevant in comparison to Luca.
Like, it's a Luca. You're living in Luca's world.

Speaker 1 Or LeBron, because of the way his brain works and the skills that he has, will just figure out an awesome way to be

Speaker 1 not quite a sidekick, but like a 1A, 1B type thing.

Speaker 1 We're a United Front. He'll treat this like a buddy cop movie, which was the way they tried to do it the first year with Wade in 2011.

Speaker 1 Join media. Wade was incredible in 2011.
Like those guys. So good.
Those guys were equal as great players that year. LeBron was better than two years before, but

Speaker 1 that was the last time we've seen at least somebody at the same

Speaker 1 length with them. I think it's interesting that it's a teammate that has a lot of the same bad habits LeBron has.
Luca not too interested in defense. LeBron uninterested in defense.

Speaker 1 Well, he's been interested when he's right now. Oh, wow.
H40.

Speaker 1 Both of them can be a lot of fun. If you're 40 plus, defense is optional.

Speaker 1 That's one of the rules. Both of them can be a little bit, guys, I got it.
Can you clear out for me at this stage of their careers how they navigate that? But I have no.

Speaker 1 doubt that they're going to navigate it. But I think it's the discrepancy between these things, where I think LeBron is still wildly more popular than Luka Doncich.

Speaker 1 Luka Doncic is a huge institution to basketball sickos like us. Yes.
To the outside world, it's not even comparable. That won't be the case for very long.
That is true.

Speaker 1 Someone jersey is going to move. Someone on the YouTube chat asked for trade grades before we go.
Hunter to the Cavs. Cavs, what's the grade?

Speaker 1 B plus B, B, B, B. For the Cavs? Yeah.
I think B is fair. I'm going B plus.
I like Hunter. For the Hawks.

Speaker 1 B minus.

Speaker 1 That's a nothing move. That's a backwards move.
I might go C just because I don't see the urgency of it. Lavert Niangi, two second rounds.
Three second round picks, two swaps. D minus.

Speaker 1 Butler to Golden State. Golden State, I have A minus.
That's fair. A minus.
A minus. Maybe even a solid A.

Speaker 1 You have one objective, and it's to make a Steph Curry team as good as you can. He's a star.
When Jimmy's right, he's a star.

Speaker 1 I said it wasn't a Hail Mary, but it was third and 13 to A.J. Brown and double coverage.
100%. It's double coverage.
Let's hope A.J. Brown gets raised to play or pass interference.

Speaker 1 We're trying to get some sort of thing to happen. For Miami, what do you got, Wes?

Speaker 1 Miami, this is A-plus, honestly. This is A-plus? A-plus.
What were they going to get for Jimmy? He no longer has to be around them. I think for the Miami grade, you have to factor in the longer saga.

Speaker 1 He's done. You have to trade him in the offseason.
Okay, well.

Speaker 1 Okay, we're factoring that. I think that's part of the deal.
Oh, then. Like, they should have traded him last summer.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 I think they could have D. I think it's probably a true.
Their handling of the Jimmy situation as a whole. Yeah.
Oh, D. F.
I want to say it's a D. You got to go to summer school.

Speaker 1 And also, they might still be the fourth season in the Eastern Conference by the end of the year. Like, I think both things are true.
But the deal is like. As the world exists right now,

Speaker 1 after Jimmy just tanked his value, after like you literally couldn't bring the guy back. Yep.
Okay, but like, no, the way they handle managed the Jimmy situation is an F. Sorry, Pat.

Speaker 1 A minus for the trade, F minus for the last six months for me. Yes.
And F minus for Jimmy, too.

Speaker 1 Nobody covered themselves in glory.

Speaker 1 Mark Williams to the Lakers. What do you got, Mahoney?

Speaker 1 Lakers grade.

Speaker 1 B minus.

Speaker 1 Was

Speaker 1 B minus for me as well. I think they kind of jumped the gun on this one a little bit.
For a guy who's very unproven. They clearly identified a player they really like, and I like him too.

Speaker 1 I just am very spooked by his overall injury.

Speaker 1 The level of consistent injury concern with multiple parts of his body is concerning. I'm going B plus.

Speaker 1 I think LeBron takes him under his wing, introduces him to the VersaClimber

Speaker 1 and some Pilata shit and all the other stuff LeBron does. But people say this about Christian Wood.

Speaker 1 We've had that. Here's the thing though.
I don't mind trading for

Speaker 1 injured guys

Speaker 1 from shitty franchises. Although Charlotte seems like they've turned it around a little bit, but this is a guy, he's going from like

Speaker 1 worst possible franchise you could be on, although they turned around with Charles Lee at least this year to now Lakers, big spotlight.

Speaker 1 But I'm going B plus just because he really jumped out of the TV the last few weeks. Like he was noticeably impactful on both ends, even though I'm not positive he knows what he's doing on defense.

Speaker 1 But he's big, he's got size, he leans on people. If he's around where the rebound is, he's getting it.
Like, I just think he's a good player. I want to say this too.

Speaker 1 Ropolinka's not a good deal maker, but the Lakers.

Speaker 1 No, we can't say that anymore because he stole Luca

Speaker 1 from stop it. He jet at Mind Trix is

Speaker 1 stop it. The Lakers' ability to like recognize talent, young people that have some level of talent.
Yeah, more to give it well. They're pretty good at that.

Speaker 1 Charlotte Grade.

Speaker 1 What do you got, Mara?

Speaker 1 B plus. I'm going to go just straight B.
B plus for me.

Speaker 1 The only reason it's tough for me me is like Charlotte is a team that should be betting on upside, given where they are in their cycle. And so for them to...
But they've had the guy in their building.

Speaker 1 They've been through it. I give them that.
But like Dalton Connect is not an upside prospect. Dalton Connect is older than Mark Williams.
It's not what you want.

Speaker 1 Not only is he older, he's like two, three years older, I think. I think he's like almost 25.
Yeah,

Speaker 1 he's a senior citizen rookie. I'm going.

Speaker 1 I really wanted to do a D-minus, but I'm going to go C-

Speaker 1 because I think Mark Williams was hurting their plan to get Cooper flag at all costs when he's putting up 25 and 16

Speaker 1 on certain nights. Too good to the fuck off the roster.
Got to get Yusuf Nurkic in there. But you make the key point.
Like, if you're a young, up-and-coming team,

Speaker 1 you kind of want the 22-year-old guy who's two years away from being a free agent, who's putting up huge stats. Like, you can afford to see if he can get healthy if you're the Hornets,

Speaker 1 even more so than the Lakers can, frankly. My fear with the Lakers, if I'm them, is like, why is Charlotte trading this guy? It's like, hey, you want to buy my car? Yeah.

Speaker 1 No, it's going, it's running great.

Speaker 1 Do you see? We just took a, here's some pictures of the road trip we just went on. Car's doing good.
Next trade, Brandon Ingram to Toronto. I'm going to start.
And for Toronto, it's a D. D.
D minus.

Speaker 1 D.

Speaker 1 I don't have any understanding of why this deal is happening.

Speaker 1 Messiah flew too close to the sun with the title. Dude.
He's been the same since. For New Orleans,

Speaker 1 they got New Orleans. If you told me a week ago that they they got a first-round pick for Brandon Ingram, I'm giving him a standing ovation.
That's like a

Speaker 1 B plus. B plus from me.
Is Bruce Brown a buyout guy? And could he be a Denver Nugget?

Speaker 1 Now we're talking. Now we're cooking.

Speaker 1 I like Bruce Brown. I like Bruce Brown too.
He started to put it together a little bit. Kelly Olinik, too, a player who I kind of thought might get rerouted by the actual deadline.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 Also could be a buyout candidate, but they need bigs there, so maybe not.

Speaker 1 Bruce Brown, like athletic feature a month from now, headline, money is Everything

Speaker 1 about Bruce Brown's tough last two years after winning the title. But it was it worth it if he gets the money and still gets to go back to Dallas.
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 1 You can have it all. Middleton Kuzma, all-star, Milwaukee, F plus.

Speaker 1 Not quite an F minus, but an F plus. Because I've watched Kuzma play basketball this year.
I didn't know they gave F pluses. That's a B for me.
Well, they got him on the cap.

Speaker 1 Solid. The last Kuzma fan, solidly B.

Speaker 1 He's living on. I think Kuzma won.

Speaker 1 He looks like a crazy person with the way he dresses and the hair and the tattoos. He's actually a pretty grounded dude.
He posts about RFK Jr. all the time.

Speaker 1 This is your grounded dude.

Speaker 1 A lot of reasonable people are RFK heads, believe it or not.

Speaker 1 Sorry, Florida.

Speaker 1 Look.

Speaker 1 We don't have to agree with everybody who loves RFK, even if we don't. I'm not the person propping up Kyle Kuzma as the voice of moderation.
This is great.

Speaker 1 I knew after two hours we'd end up in a Kyle Kuzma fan. Basketball.

Speaker 1 Koolz is going to get it done. All right.
All right. I mean, when you miss 73% of your threes, what's not to love?

Speaker 1 Trade grades. Did we do New Orleans for this? Yeah, we did.
So then I guess Phoenix would be the other one. Nurkic,

Speaker 1 getting rid of Nurkic, using one of your dump firsts that you gave up the 2031 first for,

Speaker 1 getting your fans excited about Martin, who's like the 19th swing you've had, who's like a defense shooter guy. I'm indifferent.
Okay. How about this?

Speaker 1 No grade. Yeah, no clean.
No grade is fine. Not absolutely.
Did not register. And then Memphis, whatever the hell they did with Marcus Smart.
And just like clearing out players

Speaker 1 who could help them?

Speaker 1 I don't understand

Speaker 1 just giving up on Marcus Smart being a playoff contributor

Speaker 1 if you have designs on being a serious player there. Maybe his injuries are so cooked that they don't think he'll be on the floor anyway.
That's the only thing that makes sense.

Speaker 1 They are a potential buyout team because they're not over the aprons. So cleared to roster spots, have some potential there.
You've already been on the phone with some folks. Maybe so.

Speaker 1 I want to say I saw it pop up that I think they took back Marvin Bagley.

Speaker 1 Marcus Smart to the Celtics? Are we allowed to buyout? We're not allowed to get buyouts. I don't believe so.
I think they're over the second apron. So

Speaker 1 no buyouts. It's way too expensive.
This apron just ruins everything. By the way.

Speaker 1 Except gave us the weirdest, craziest trade lunch in the history of the league yeah you're probably right uh wait sacramento san antonio the fox for fox i have an a plus for san antonio and like a c for sacramento solid a f for chicago so yeah solid a for san antonio yep i'm there i think b for sacramento like i don't know i thought the hall was good the the bulls what they got back for levina just making themselves a part of this trade like i called it a hill of beans.

Speaker 1 Rob said it was a stump of beans.

Speaker 1 Something less than a hill.

Speaker 1 What was the Vince Carter trade when Toronto got back like Alonzo Morning, but he had kidney issues? Yes. Yeah.
With Eric Williams and then some other terrible contract and like two bad firsts.

Speaker 1 It's always bad when you're taking the bad contracts back in a trade. And for the only benefit being your own pick that you were going to keep anyway, because your team is bad.

Speaker 1 The pick was protected. Like you were going to keep it.
The pick was top two protected.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, F for the ball. What they got was, yo, take the protection off.
We're one of the five worst teams in the league.

Speaker 1 I think the Kings did all right. I'm going to give the Kings like a solid B, especially under the circumstances.
They didn't have a lot to work on. Under duress.
Under duress.

Speaker 1 Before we go,

Speaker 1 Luka Doncic getting traded. What's your best Luka Doncic trade that you think would have been a better trade for Dallas than the trade they made?

Speaker 1 Player for player?

Speaker 1 I think it's got to be a pack. It would have to be like a Houston hall or a men's.

Speaker 1 Yeah, the only thing that would have made people happy was six years of picks, you know, owning somebody's draft picks from now till Tim Buck 2 and some young guys that are nice. So,

Speaker 1 I don't know, Houston making the money work,

Speaker 1 a man Thompson,

Speaker 1 bunch of picks in the field.

Speaker 1 You can't keep him in Texas, though.

Speaker 1 He hasn't.

Speaker 1 You can't.

Speaker 1 Well, like sending him to the Lakers.

Speaker 1 You don't trade him to you. San Antonio and Easter out.
You can't keep them in Texas.

Speaker 1 Who says no, Tatum Luca, if you know Dallas is trading Luca?

Speaker 1 Boston.

Speaker 1 I don't think Boston would do it. I agree.
I just wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be able to do that.

Speaker 1 I mean, obviously, Luca's a much better player, but karmically, that's just

Speaker 1 a disgusting move. It's almost like if you go to the finals, don't blow up the superstar core of the team that just went.
You know, like, that's what a crazy thought.

Speaker 1 Be like you leaving your wife with Sidney Sweeney.

Speaker 1 You're trying to get a reaction.

Speaker 1 Everybody would think that was insane of you. Come on.

Speaker 1 Bam and hero and every Miami pick for Luca in a contract. I don't like that.
But you know what? I would like is listening to all these offers.

Speaker 1 I would love if I were the Mavericks to sit there and actually feel them. I was like, would Minnesota trade Ant Edwards for Luca Doncic? I would.
100%. Love Ant Edwards.

Speaker 1 I would absolutely trade him for Luka Dan. But the problem is, if you're trading for Luka, you also have to factor in, will he want to stay in a year and a half? That's the thing.

Speaker 1 That's what Nico Harrison's trying to say, guys,

Speaker 1 about all of these picks and all of these great trades that were out there. That's what Nico Harrison's trying to explain to you guys.

Speaker 1 What he's trying to explain is the defense wins championships, apparently. The only one that makes...

Speaker 1 sense from a basketball standpoint that I think would have been six-hour meetings on both sides is Giannis.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 Yeah. For both sides.
And I get, if you're Milwaukee, you probably don't do it because it's like, well, why would Luca resign here in a year and a half?

Speaker 1 But fundamentally, for what he wanted from the trade, which was size and rim protection, Giannis is the better version of Davis. All NBA, MVP kind of guy, win now.

Speaker 1 I still feel like if this trade was Reeves, Davis, 29 and 31 in two swaps. Different conversation.
It's still not enough.

Speaker 1 But at least it's like, oh, I see it. They don't feel like they can resign it.

Speaker 1 That's a lot. It's a big combo.

Speaker 1 Whatever they got, wasn't it? Thanks to Michela Beltra, they sponsored our little YouTube live thingy, a Superior Light Beer, the official beer sponsor of the NBA.

Speaker 1 I also should say happy birthday to us. Thank you.
Today? Today. Today's my birthday.
Happy birthday to our colleague, Sira Sohi as well. We got you, Kyle Kuzman.

Speaker 1 Oh, yeah. Shouts to Sira Sohe, my birthday twin.
We never get our love. We never

Speaker 1 get our love in the ringer slack on the birthday love. So we're doing it right now live on the Bill Simmons

Speaker 1 trade deadline special.

Speaker 1 Wow.

Speaker 1 What a weird way to end the pie.

Speaker 1 Happy birthday. What happens today? You and Luca just going out?

Speaker 1 Going

Speaker 1 making bad food and drink yourself. We're going out for steaks tonight.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, man, that'll be it. Just a steak dinner.

Speaker 1 That's my birthday today. Hell yeah.
That's actually what I do every birthday.

Speaker 1 What part of Los Angeles do you think Luca Doncic will live in with the limited information you have about things that he likes? I like this as like a personality test.

Speaker 1 Ooh, things that, I mean, realistically, he should move to Beverly Hills because it's close to all the things that he's going to like socially.

Speaker 1 It's not going to be in Beverly Hills itself, but Beverly Hills is adjacent to where a lot of these things happen. So, yeah.
What's the

Speaker 1 hookah proximity is close. Okay.
Somewhere in the Beverly, the hills of Beverly Hills.

Speaker 1 Because Brentwood is is too far from the action, to be honest with you. Brentwood is too far.
Bel Air is too, is a little bit too secluded as well.

Speaker 1 What's another one that, folks, he's clearly not an Eastsider. He's not going to move with the freaking Hollywood Eastside people.
I think he's a Beverly Hills guy.

Speaker 1 All right. Caveat.
They practice an O Segundo.

Speaker 1 He's 25.

Speaker 1 Has mentioned the beach and the ocean a couple times. Yes.

Speaker 1 So I guess that is a Brent.

Speaker 1 Brentwood is, you know, you get the crib and you get to be closer to the ocean. I don't think he moves like, what are you thinking, like Manhattan Beach type of thing?

Speaker 1 I was wondering, could he be like a, like, where the, like, that's where the hockey players live, right? The LA Kings live in like Manhattan Hermosa. Rosillo's there.
Luca's not a hockey guy.

Speaker 1 He's, he's a different.

Speaker 1 He's an NBA guy. Let's just,

Speaker 1 let's just put it like that. I see him in the bay for a year while he figures it out.

Speaker 1 I don't think he's going to be. Do you think you run into Luka Doncic in LA at two in the morning at a club in the next two months? Yes.
You think so? Yes. Yes.

Speaker 1 And maybe not a club, but like, you know, one of the, you know, one of the things my guys at H would do. I could see him being an H Wood guy.
100%.

Speaker 1 I'll have to take your word for it. 100%.

Speaker 1 And it's not going to be like a nightclub loud music, blah, blah, blah, but like, you know, like

Speaker 1 Leo's going to be there.

Speaker 1 Is there a world where Luca

Speaker 1 lives with Rob and his wife?

Speaker 1 If Rob moved to L.A.

Speaker 1 Hypothetically.

Speaker 1 Rob gets a guest house in the back of his Brentwood estate.

Speaker 1 Would it be ethical or unethical for you to live in the guesthouse of Luca Dotsic's Brentwood estate? I think I would officially have to give up my awards vote if I'm living in Luca Dotchich's.

Speaker 1 That's fair. I'm glad you're open about it.
There are media members in LA who that's open to, but they do not work for theringa.com. I promise you that.
We stand up for journalism here. Yeah, we try.

Speaker 1 You know,

Speaker 1 well, everyone but conspiracy people. We're going to be holding these guys speak to the fire

Speaker 1 speaking truth to power, maybe living in their guest house. Guys, I had a blast.
Happy birthday, Wes. Thank you.
Thanks to everybody behind the scenes. And thanks to everybody who listens.

Speaker 1 Thanks for the questions, too. We're going to take a break.
I'm going to come back with million-dollar Super Bowl picks.

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Speaker 1 All right, million-dollar picks, Super Bowl edition presented by FanDuel Sportsbook. We don't have House this week because he is in New Orleans.

Speaker 1 He's hanging out with Sal and with Van and all these ringer dudes, the fantasy guys, and it just hurts my feelings. He didn't have time for us.
I'm going to carry on.

Speaker 1 I have a bunch of stuff I like, but I wanted to talk big picture about what I was seeing from the game because I stared at this game, I don't know, for 10 days and I just kept thinking Philly has more talent.

Speaker 1 Philly has more talent. Philly's better all over the place.

Speaker 1 The only things that you wouldn't give Philly the advantage are coaching, QB, pedigree in late game crunch time situations.

Speaker 1 So I thought I was going to take Philly for about a week, and then I thought about more and more. I went to the playoff gambling manifesto.
I looked at all the rules.

Speaker 1 Rule number one, first rule, beware of the looked a little too good, the previous playoff round team.

Speaker 1 That was Philly going against this Washington team that already was probably lucky to make the conference title game to begin with and then had a couple of big injuries. And Philly looked awesome.

Speaker 1 Rule number five, beware of the everybody believes in us team and the nobody believes in our QB but us team.

Speaker 1 So Casey is a little bit of the everybody believes in us team just because everybody's like, Casey can't go against Mahomes.

Speaker 1 Philly's got a touch of the nobody believes in our QB but us

Speaker 1 stuff.

Speaker 1 Although, I don't know, Hurts is making 50 million a year and he gets taken high in fantasy drafts and people know he's good. So

Speaker 1 Casey, a little bit, Philly, a little bit, but I'm not too sold on any of them.

Speaker 1 Rule number 10, when in doubt, gravitate toward one pick that would screw over the most gamblers and experts and would definitely go against the single worst gambler you know.

Speaker 1 Again, there's some Casey stuff. I still feel with people, just the infrastructure, 3P, don't go against Mahomes.
I still feel like when we get closer to game time, I think this line's going to move.

Speaker 1 I think it's going to move toward Philly. Right now, it's still KC minus one and a half.
So I don't think this comes into play. There is a prop.

Speaker 1 that I want to hit when we do props that I think qualifies for rule number 10. Rule number 16, take one last look at the quarterbacks.

Speaker 1 And remember, there's plenty of time to bait against any QB or coach, except for the Super Bowl, where you don't have a lot of time.

Speaker 1 Take one last look at the quarterbacks. Mahomes hurts.
What happens in a three-point game with nine minutes left?

Speaker 1 And Casey's down three and they have the ball and they're driving and you realize you bet on Philly and you didn't have Patrick Mahomes and Andy Reid.

Speaker 1 You just have to factor that in and you also have to factor in rule number 17.

Speaker 1 Don't try to be a hero. Just try to win money.
The hero move is to take Philly and to say, this has been the best team.

Speaker 1 When you think about it, they only had three losses. They could have, they were three plays away basically from being undefeated for the season.
They're loaded everywhere.

Speaker 1 They're going to lay the SmackDown. And the only reason you're not going to take them is because of Mahomes and Reid.

Speaker 1 The counter is Casey has just been spectacular. at winning close games against teams where they do all the little things correctly and they make the little coaching decisions correctly.

Speaker 1 And they always get one little break break around halftime when the other team does something stupid and maybe there's a bad special teams player they get one fumble they always kind of hang around hang around hang around and take care of business in the fourth quarter like they did with buffalo mahomes is 17 and three in the playoffs career he's 17 and 0

Speaker 1 in the last 17 one score games that zero means no losses this team just takes care of business all the time over and over again Meanwhile, Philly, their best wins this year, Green Bay twice.

Speaker 1 Washington, they went two and one. Baltimore, they beat by five and Cincy.
So the record is awesome. The stats are awesome.
The fact that they're three plays away from being undefeated is notable.

Speaker 1 Their defense has looked great. And yet, you can make the case Casey has just had a much tougher schedule, a much bigger bullseye in them, and over and over again has delivered.

Speaker 1 I was trying to think, I always try to do this for the Super Bowl. I do scenarios, best case, worst case, because I started leaning toward the Chiefs over the weekend.

Speaker 1 best case scenario

Speaker 1 comparing the chiefs to brady and the pats because i think there's a lot of similarities including like the infrastructure the coach the experience in big games all the veterans you have just the ability to just pull out these close games over and over again

Speaker 1 what brady super bowl win would this be like for mahomes And I settled on Patriots 28, Seattle 24, ironically, 10-year anniversary of that game this week.

Speaker 1 Really great YouTube clip that the Patriots put up with all this extended audio and video stuff from the game. I watched the whole thing.
I made my dad watch it.

Speaker 1 I think it's probably my favorite Patriots win of all the wins. It has the Malcolm Butler game.
Anyway, they're down 10.

Speaker 1 They win the game by four, 28 to 24. It was a pick'em line, so similar to this, 47 for the over-under, pretty close to this.

Speaker 1 It was a game that had 10 punts, three turnovers, seven touchdowns, and a field goal. So 10 possessions on each side.
That feels a little similar to what I think the game's going to go on Sunday.

Speaker 1 Patriots couldn't really run the ball. 21 for 57 running it, but 37 for 50 for 328 passing.
That feels like what's going to happen in this game for them.

Speaker 1 I don't think they're going to be able to run the ball that well against the Eagles. And I think the Eagles are going to

Speaker 1 try to push them to do short, medium passes.

Speaker 1 Just keep trying to move the ball downfield. And eventually we're either going to get a sack or a tip or we'll break up a play something.
But just take your time going down the field.

Speaker 1 Seattle on the other side in that game, 29 for 162 from the run, for the run, which kind of feels like what might happen with Barkley. They were 12 for 21 passing for 247.

Speaker 1 That feels in the ballpark of what usually happens within a Hertz Eagles game. The Pats were 8 for 13 on third down.

Speaker 1 Big time of possession for them, 33.46, because it was a lot of those short, medium completions that just kept the clock moving. Brady ended up 37 for 50 for 328.

Speaker 1 So close game. They had to throw the ball a lot because they weren't able to run it.
And then they took care of business down the stretch.

Speaker 1 And then Malcolm Butler came up with the most famous play in the history of the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 I think that if the Chiefs win, I don't think it's a big win. I don't think they win by 10 plus.
I think the game is tight in the fourth quarter and they pull it out. All right.

Speaker 1 What would be the worst version of the game for the Chiefs? What bad Mahomes loss would this be like? That's obvious. That's Bucs 31, Chiefs nine.
That was the Super Bowl result. KC favored by three.

Speaker 1 They ran the ball a little bit in that game, 17 for 107, 26 for 49, passing. Mahomes was okay, but he had a couple turnovers.

Speaker 1 And then Tampa ran the ball on them, 33 for 145, only eight incompletions for Brady, no turnovers,

Speaker 1 took a big lead, held them off,

Speaker 1 took over the game in the second half with their pass rush, and CC just couldn't do anything, nine points.

Speaker 1 I'm a little scared of that result for this. And I think

Speaker 1 if you're taking the Eagles, you're almost better off taking them by 10 plus.

Speaker 1 That's the, they're not, I don't think, winning a close game against Mahomes and the Chiefs in the fourth quarter, which makes me think if you're taking the Eagles, just take the minus nine and a half at plus 350 and get some juice on it and root for a game like that Bucs game, the 31-9 game.

Speaker 1 I am looking at this as a Chiefs win and a nail-biter of a game.

Speaker 1 There's some advantages for the Eagles.

Speaker 1 Number two, in limiting explosive plays, according to Shio Capadia.

Speaker 1 Really good tackling team. And then they have that recipe that used to work against Brady in the past.

Speaker 1 And I think the Eagles have it, where you just rush to four, they're constantly pushing the pocket.

Speaker 1 And then you have the other seven guys can basically be doing all kinds of, you know, are they blitzing? Are they bouncing back? Are they pretending to blitz and then blitzing?

Speaker 1 That's what used to frustrate Mahomes. So I, I, uh, Brady.
So I feel like

Speaker 1 there's some recipe stuff here, but ultimately, I just can't take,

Speaker 1 I can't take Hurts over Mahomes and I can't take Siriani against Reed.

Speaker 1 And if anything has taught us about this Chiefs team over the years, they just benefit from dumb shit from the other teams or just the play you shouldn't have made the moment that you can't believe this happened.

Speaker 1 And it just, it always works out for them. I'm not going to talk about the refs.
So here's what I'm doing. For million-dollar picks, we lost 211,000 last week.

Speaker 1 We are still up $1.071 million for this season. I'm going to try to double it.
We're going to bet 500K in the Chiefs minus 1.5.

Speaker 1 We're going to bet a 250K parlay. Listen to this one.
Eagles plus 8.5.

Speaker 1 Mahomes, 200 plus passing yards under 60.5 points.

Speaker 1 So it's a little bit of a hedge against that Chiefs minus one and a half because I think the game's going to be close and I'm going to try to middle it with that parlay.

Speaker 1 And that parlay is dead even on FanDuel. So doing those two.
And then 50K on the following Super Bowl props. Ready? Hurts anytime touchdown minus 115.

Speaker 1 I just, at some point, the tush push is happening near the goal line. That's just the way this goes.
Mahomes over five and a half carries, minus 128.

Speaker 1 You go back, you look at all the Super Bowls. Sal and I talked about this on the Super Bowl props.

Speaker 1 He uses his legs in every big game. And even if he doesn't get the five and a half carries, it's five instead of five and a half.

Speaker 1 So the odds are in your favor on this, especially if they're going to rush four and he's going to be able to scramble around and buy himself some time. Think about the Eagles' defense.

Speaker 1 If they get a little tired in the fourth quarter, who knows? I just think he gets the six carries.

Speaker 1 I like that a little more than the yards because the yards, if they had the lead, the kneel down, start cutting in the yard total, not doing that.

Speaker 1 Mahomes over 11.5 yards for biggest rush, taking that.

Speaker 1 I'm also taking Hurts over 11.5 yards for his biggest rush.

Speaker 1 figure one of those guys is rushing for 12 yards maybe hit both worst case scenario you split them chris jones sack plus 136 we talked about this on sunday line pushes forward hurts holds the ball holds it too long and then all of a sudden jones gets him both teams get a fourth down conversion minus 124

Speaker 1 i think there's probably going to be a point in this game where both teams have to get a little bit aggressive um because they're going to be worried about what happens if the other team gets the ball back.

Speaker 1 So even fourth and ones, fourth and twos, I just think both teams are getting a fourth down conversion. And then we have a boost on FanDuel that I'm just going to jump on for 50K.

Speaker 1 Casey wins, Mahomes over 225 yards passing, which you can use the profit boost token and go nuts on. And then I have some small 25K Super Bowl props.

Speaker 1 Mahomes 40-plus rush yards is plus 180. I like that one because if I'm betting on his rush over, I might as well just go for it and think he's going to go like eight for 45, whatever.

Speaker 1 Eagles first half, Eagles to win the first half, Chiefs to win the game, plus 750. This is the Cousin South special.
Could see it happening. So we're putting 25K on it.

Speaker 1 I think this is going to be a tight game. I do not think the Chiefs run away with this by any means, and I could totally see the Eagles winning in the first half.
So we'll fly on that.

Speaker 1 And last but not least, going back to the manifesto.

Speaker 1 No Barkley touchdown is plus 150.

Speaker 1 And at Fandel, they were saying, I heard through the grapevine, this is the least bet Super Bowl prop. So you want to have the prop that everyone is betting the other side on plus 150.

Speaker 1 We're putting 25K on that.

Speaker 1 And those are the million dollar picks Super Bowl edition. Don't forget Sunday night, me and cousin Sal, at some point after the Super Bowl ends, we will be going,

Speaker 1 we will be going full tilt on everything that happened in the game. We're not going live on YouTube, but it will be on this podcast.

Speaker 1 We'll get the video up as fast as possible um on youtube so there you go

Speaker 1 all right that's it for the podcast thanks to kyle creighton and saruti and gahau for producing don't forget you can watch all the videos and clips from this podcast on the bill simmons youtube channel you can also check out the rewatchables and the ringer movies youtube channel or on the rewatchables feed we did before sunset we have a monster movie coming on monday a movie that was always on the short list so stay tuned for that i'm not going to to tell you what it is.

Speaker 1 You don't need to know what it is because you've seen it. So there you go.
I will be back on Sunday after the Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 We're not going live, but we will be doing a Super Bowl reaction pod with Cousin Sal, the final podcast of the year.

Speaker 1 Don't forget to consume all of our NFL content on the Ringer Podcast Network, on theringer.com. We're doing some great stuff.
We have a bunch of people down in New Orleans.

Speaker 1 Enjoy the weekend. Enjoy the game.
See you soon.

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