The Aggro Lions, the Sleeper-ish Hawks, Million-Dollar Picks, and Jesse Ventura on His Surprise WWE Return

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On this podcast, Joe House and I are going to react to a fantastic Lions-Packers game. We're going to do million-dollar picks.
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all right we are taping this right after the lions packers game is 8 30 All right.

We are taping this right after the Lions Packers game is 837 Pacific time. We were hoping that would be a really good game.

It seemed like it was going to be a really good game and then it was a

really good game.

And even better Packers plus three and a half covered my adjusted Packers

plus four and a half with,

with love 200 plus passing yards that covered one of my first million dollar pick already. Detroit had the ball 36 minutes house.
They had 280 yards passing. They outgained the Packers by over 100 yards and felt like they dominated the game.
And yet, I kind of feel like the Packers blew it.

They had the ball first down after that long completion over the middle and they were inside the 20. And then they, all of a sudden they just kind of, and they're settling for a field goal.
And I really feel like they had it. Well, it was, it was first in goal.
And there was to me, a very suspicious

pass interference, offensive

pass interference call that pushed

them... Well, it was first and goal, and there was, to me, a very suspicious pass interference, offensive pass interference call

that pushed them way back.

Yeah, it didn't.

I mean, the number of times that occurs in a football game

and it goes uncalled, and they were inside of,

it happened like virtually at the line of scrimmage.

So are you, wait a second, are you giving me,

you think that we are headed toward a Lions-Bills conspiracy Super Bowl? The two losers, somebody has to win. This is Goodell has now ordered that in.
Not only, I love that. And you know who especially loves it is Cousin Sal, because I think that was his prediction for the Super Bowl matchup for this season.
I like, look, I'm not going to, you know, say bad things about it. Detroit is an A-side team now.
Detroit gets A-side calls. Well, explain that because that's a Raheem phrase that you guys do on Ringer Gambling Show.
For my audience, they might not know what that is, but it's Raheem's best thing. Yeah.
It's like his best theory. I love it.
But explain the A-. I'll try and do it.
It's when you've achieved a certain status. And the best example of it in the NFL is the Chiefs, where every week it feels like every call that might go their way does go their way.
Every ball that bounces seems to find the hands of the team that is the A side team. I think it's basically that concept.
Yeah, it's like the, it's a Monday night game. Somebody's getting three and a half in their home and you could just tell in the first quarter the calls are going their way.
And it's like, oh, they're the A-side today. It's a good one.
LeBron's been the A-side in the NBA for like 15 years. The Warriors had a few A-side runs on their end too.
But it's a good theory. But yet I felt like considering that Love had 31 yards at halftime, they seemed completely blindsided by how good the Lions defense looked in that first drive when they were just flying in and hounding them.
And then they found something with the run game. Then they started taking shots deep.
And it felt like by the time we're in the fourth quarter, it actually felt like the Packers were a slightly better team. And then they just couldn't hold the Lions off.
They got that big fourth down stop. And if I'm the Packers, I'm feeling good.
I can play with that team. I can go in there in the playoffs in January and I can hang with that team.
And I, I'm not like losing sleep. You're going to be the wild card.
Anyway, the entirety of that fourth quarter felt to me like whichever team has the ball. That's is going to win the football game, which is a testament to, you know, the, the matchup.
But I just want to be clear. I know that I said the a side thing about that dubious pass interference call.
There was a holding call on Detroit in that last drive that was also ticky-tack. Felt a little makeup-y.
And to Detroit's credit, they overcame that, went right down the field. You know, crazy Dan Campbell goes for it on a fourth down that, you know, had Jared Goff falling over because he gets his foot stepped on by a lineman.
They still get the yards. They still are able to just clinch the game that way.
But that's the way it goes when things are running in your favor. On the nine text threads I was on during this game, most people thought Campbell was a lunatic.
I actually liked it. And it goes to what you said a minute ago.
It started to feel like whoever had the ball last game and he was going to kick a field goal there. Love gets the ball on his own 30 with 43 seconds left.
And I feel like they would have been able to go down the field and get in a field goal range. So, you know, it's fourth and inches.
They didn't get it earlier to me. A lot of times, I like when the Lions go for it.
There's other situations where I hate it, like the Jaguars, when you can't really block and you have Trevor Lawrence. And I just am not confident you're getting it on fourth and two or fourth and four.
There's a bunch of teams like that. With them, I like when the play that they didn't get it, that Gibbs pitch out play.
I didn't like the play. I like that they went for it, but you have this huge offensive line.
Just run behind it and push forward. It seems like teams always get into trouble when they try to get tricky.
They try to out-trick themselves a bunch of times in this game, which is why the Packers were able to hang around. The thing that you said in our text thread, I think early in the second half, it did indeed feel like the Lions could get 10 to 15 yards passing the football anytime they wanted it.
And they ran really sharp plays in the red zone. Both times, fourth down, those touchdowns that they got were really sharp play calls.
Ben Johnson in his bag, BS. Yeah, Goff was 32 for 41 for 283.
He had one bad pass. He stared the guy down through a pick.
But they ran the ball. Montgomery and Gibbs were 29 for 94.
I think they were only 3.6 for Montgomery, 2.9 for Gibbs. But I think the reason they were trying to run the ball, I think they were trying to shorten the game.
I agree. Because they didn't trust the defense, right? Totally agree, yes.
And so it just felt like, I like when the Lions play with pace because they have so many weapons, but I guess they feel like they can't do that anymore because it's such a patchwork defense. But a lot of people writing online, people on pods have been making the same point that this whole conference feels like it's shifting toward Philly a little bit.
I heard Lombardi today talking about he really feels like Philly, they have the second best odds to win the NFC, but Philly's in a great spot, whether they're the one seed or the two seed, the way their defense is playing. To me, the NFC feels way more wide open than it did a couple weeks ago, and it's because of their Detroit injuries.
Their defense isn't the same. Right, yeah.
I mean, wide open means what? Three teams. Three teams.
Okay, fair enough. Yeah, but I thought there was a point about four weeks ago when it just seemed like Detroit was almost like I'd bet anything

they're going to make the Super Bowl. This just seems like the dominant NFC team.
I just love

the way they're playing. Even after the Hutchinson injury, it still felt pretty great.
So I'm

Fandle right now. They have the conference stuff.
Detroit's plus 140. Phillies plus 250.
And the

Packers are 8-1. Vikings are plus 950.
And we're going to talk about them later on Million Dollar

I'm sorry. Detroit's plus 140.
Philly's plus 250. And the Packers are 8-1.
Vikings are plus 950. And we're going to talk about them later on Million Dollar Picks.
But there's some pretty interesting defensive stats with them that are not encouraging. Other than that, I don't see anyone else.
So it's those three in the NFC. But I feel like the Packers, I think they could go into Detroit and hang.
Philly would be a little tougher because of the Philly defense. And we need to know when J.R.
Alexander comes back is the other thing. That's right.
That's going to be huge for Green Bay. The Philly thing, the Philly advantage that they have is their own ability to just shrink the clock and run the ball, especially in the second half of these games now.
Yeah, they're good. It's interesting.
Detroit has probably been on TV the most this year, other than maybe KC, right? It's those two, but I feel like Detroit, I feel like I've seen almost all of their games. Well, sadly, we've seen way too much of the mother-effing Jets.
I mean, the Jets shoot them straight into the into the sun. But that's my point.
Usually like the NBA is in this situation. Now they have just a shitload of Laker games left.
They barely have any Cleveland games. They barely have any Oklahoma city games.
And a lot of times, like the most televised teams, it turns out to be disappointing. I love watching Detroit.
I really get it. And I have, I have fantasy guys from them in different leagues.
and I'm sure that's part of it. I have the one seed bet with them.
I have their over, all kinds of stuff. I just think they're really entertaining offensively.
About as entertaining of an offense as we've seen in a while. Then the big thing that they added that they just didn't have in the first two months was this Tim Patrick who who I always thought was good on the Broncos.
He got hurt, and he was healthy in preseason, and I guess Peyton, just like the other receivers, let him go, and he's the third receiver that the Lions have kind of been dying for. He had a couple of really big catches today, but I think they just have playmakers everywhere.
I always feel like that Packers didn't get that thing, tie game, four minutes left, and it's like, fuck, you guys probably lost. I don't think you're stopping the Lions.
I think they're going to get in a field goal range and win the game. Didn't you have that feeling? Yeah, of course.
Yes. The only thing that put it into doubt at all was Crazy Dan Campbell going for it on that fourth down.
Well, I wonder. I mean, I wonder like the pie chart of that decision making.
Where they didn't get it before. And I do think there's like a attitude piece to when he's been doing this for three years.
No doubt. And it's like, if I go for it here and we get it, I kind of win our swagger back.
If I kick the field goal combined with us not getting it before, our swagger's in like a tiny bit of a question. And I, you know, he's just aggro.
That's who he is. Yeah, it's true.
And I do wonder, it can't be part of the affirmative calculation when he's sitting there making the decision. But there is got to be something in terms of the identity.
Like, this is who we are. This is what we do.
We have to do it. We don't waver from it.
We can't waver from our identity. This is who we plow ahead.
We plow ahead. And it did have the desired outcome, which was not giving the Green Bay Packers the football back.
The nerds didn't like it. It was like, I think 4% probability was better if they just kicked it for winning the game, which I was surprised by.
Okay. But I liked it.
I thought they were going to get it. I was judged the stuff by, do I think they're going to get it? If I'm like, I was, you know, obviously rooting for the Packers with the plus points and hoping that the Lions would kick the field goal and really worried that not only were they going to get it, but they were going to be the thing where they break through and get the touchdown.
I don't know. Just the whole thing made me nervous.
So are the Lions still the best team to you? Sure. Yes.
Yes. I mean, we're going to see Kansas City this coming week, and I feel like we're due for a Kansas City statement game,

and it might be this weekend.

It might be this weekend.

Well, that's nice to move into Million Dollar Picks because we had KC down as one of the possibilities.

KC, the line's finally adjusted to back up what we've been watching

week after week where they haven't been covering any of these, and they've been pulling wins out of their ass. And every week, the Lions have been three to eight points too high for them.
Yeah. And FanDuel and everybody else who makes Lions finally had enough of it, and they made them three-and-a-half-point favorites at home against the Chargers on a Sunday night that don't have J.K.
Dobbins, that McConkie's hurt, and we'll see tomorrow on Friday. If the guy doesn't practice on Friday, it's usually a bad sign for playing.
He's been their big play guy every third down. The only play guy.
Yeah. And I would have thought the line would be maybe six-and-a-half.
I was going to say six. All the odds makers were like, nope, we've had it with the Chiefs.
It's three and a half. Well, you know why? The Chiefs are on a six-game against the spread losing streak.
Right. Incredible.
For a team with their winning percentage, if you look at the history, there's some great numbers out there. Action Network team was doing it.
Some incredible numbers about a team with their winning percentage being on a 0-6 against the spread streak. Yeah, and even if you look at their last six wins, beat the Niners by 10, that turns out to be a congratulations.
Vegas by 7, Tampa by six, Denver by two, Carolina by three, Vegas by two. They beat Vegas twice by nine points combined.
And I think the odds makers have just had it. And they're like, you know what? So to me, it's a huge gambling opportunity because I don't love the hook, but it does allow us to use their money line and start combining it with stuff.
But the big thing for me with the matchup is just, A, not sure about the Chargers at all. Their best wins is, I like them.
I've enjoyed betting on them. I happen to make the playoffs.
They're better than a good, bad team. I'm not sure they're a good team.
Their best two wins were Denver by seven and Atlanta by four.

Denver's the only team with a winning record they've beaten.

Casey's defense, third against the run.

Chargers don't have Dobbins.

Their run game was non-existent last week.

Chiefs at home.

Chiefs kind of need to make some sort of statement at some point

before we get to January. And this just feels like the week.
I agree. I mean, this is, you know, the weakness for Kansas City has been their past defense since the cornerback Jalen Watson got hurt.
That was against San Francisco. We've seen a lot of teams get into that secondary, that Kansas City secondary.
But the Chargers are so one-dimensional now. And look, all credit to Coach Harbaugh.
Yeah. Amazing turnaround.
And they did exactly what they needed to do against stupid Atlanta, which was just hang around. Just be on the football field and let Atlanta serve you up on a Thanksgiving platter.
Here you go, guys. We've got some nice leftovers for you.
How would you like to win this game? And Herbert and the Chargers accepted openly. But that's not the Chiefs.
That's not the Chiefs at home. That's not the Chiefs only laying a little number like this.
Patrick Mahomes with laying under six like this, very good numbers. It's like in the 60-some percent range.
And they got extra rest, right? They're coming off of that Friday all the way back around to a nice Sunday. This could be a Chiefs smash spot, but it could be a cheap smash spot.

So do you like the minus three and a half or are you liking a money line with somebody else?

There's a money line situation that I really

like. I like it all.
I'll just

tell you, I like it all. I'm not afraid of any

of it. Okay.

The hook scares me just because

the settling for field goal things.

They do have Pacheco back. Tell me

how the Chargers score 20 points. I know.
Tell me how. I know.
I'm with you. Let's take a break and we'll talk about the rest of the games.
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St. Louis, Missouri, must be 21 plus to order alcohol,

alcohol available only in select markets. So Hass, on the Ringer Gambling Show today, you were talking about a parlay.
And I was listening to it and I already had it written down. And I texted it to the thread, the Sunday pregame thread, before I heard you actually toss out the parlay, and it was basically the torn Achilles parlay.
It was take Minnesota against Atlanta and take Miami against the Jets. Short Cousins, short Rodgers.
It's like, I think, plus 109, something like that. I mean, both of those guys' left legs are shorter, so it makes sense.

Right.

And I like the symmetry of it.

And I was like, I would love to do that.

I would love to bet against Kirk Cousins again.

And obviously Miami at home.

I actually think Miami is a little undervalued now because the Packers Thursday night game

threw everyone off the scent.

But it was cold,

cold weather Thursday night.

What the fuck do you think was going to happen?

They'd actually played well the weeks before that.

So let's be fair.

The,

the,

the Dolphins offense was up to the challenge,

right?

The Dolphins defense would have no part of tackling in that.

They didn't want to be there.

They did not.

And then Atlanta's nine and 19 in our last 28 against the spread worth

mentioning.

Atlanta's not good.

No, they're six and six. They really could be three and nine, two and 10, a couple of plays.
And I was like, I'm going to do this. This sounds great.
And then I started looking at the Minnesota defensive stats, which I mailed to you. And they're a little alarming.
And there's something I don't trust about this game. My shit detector's going off because

it's really like the make or break game

of the season for Atlanta.

They're at an impasse with Cousins

here. It's Cousins going back to

Minnesota.

But I look at Minnesota, they give up 29 to

Green Bay, 31 to Detroit, 27

to Chicago, 30 to the Rams. Last week

Arizona had 406 yards and 25 first downs in them. And really kind of choked the game away.
They had the game. They're at 19 and six, they're in control.
And I just don't trust Minnesota and make the counter with just try to do your Kirk Cousins counter and let's talk this out. Yeah.
So what we've seen from him in virtually every game except for the games against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers where virtually all of the yardage, all of the positive EPA for the Atlanta offense was generated from the enormous success that the Falcons offense had against Tampa in two games. Over the last three games, Kirk Cousins has this many.
I'm holding out, but giant zero touchdown passes, and they were not against great defenses. Right.
It was against the Saints was one of those games. I mean, I'll go back and look.
Well, the Chargers have a good defense. They had, but it was a short week and a travel week for the Chargers.
And the Falcons had no problem moving the football up and down the field. They just got to the red zone and puked all over themselves.
And Kirk Cousins, especially, you know, short arming and short legging and not moving and playing out of pistol. And the guy that is the offensive coordinator for, not covering himself in glory because we keep having this conversation about the Falcons, not putting Kirk cousins in a tenable position, a tenable situation.
They have two incredible running backs. It doesn't matter.
They try and set up play action. It doesn't matter.
Cousins single handedly is, uh, taking wins away from this team, and it's only going in one direction with him physically. One of the guys in our thread shared that next-gen stat.
Now, I don't know how long next-gen has been around. Is it two years? Is it 20 years? Is it 50 years? Yes.
No quarterback. There are no quarterbacks since NextGen has been measuring the velocity of passes that's had at least 20 attempts and has not reached 37 miles an hour.
And Kirk Cousins came along on Sunday and said, hold my beer, mother effers. I'm right here.
And you could see it. I mean, they kept saying, we watched that game.
He had no push out of his feet at all. No push.
Would you want next-gen stats to measure your P's since you were a teenager to now? Miles per hour? Can we have next-gen stats in bathrooms? Lord, no. Oh, my P is down to 34 miles an hour.
I don't want anybody measuring my bathroom performance. Any sort of streams? No.
Well, you compared Cousins to Joe Biden on the ringer. What did you say? Well, only in the sense that when you reach this point physically, it only goes in one direction.
That was the point I was trying to make. The case that people were trying to make over the summer, oh, Joe Joe Biden, he can over he behind the scenes is as sharp as a tack.
There was no overcoming the thing because the thing was he's old and you can't, it only goes in one direction every day that goes by. You're one day older.
That's where cousins is right now. It's not that he's in a rough patch.
It's not that he's working things out. He's not, you know, uh, he doesn't have the yips.
He's not physically able. He's literally physically unable to perform and that's why going up against a Brian Flores blitz heavy defense.
I know, but the defense hasn't been that good though. It's the blitz.
I get it. It's the blitz.
It's not the secondary that I'm interested in. It's the blitz.
So I think I'm going to see the case. I feel like I got so lucky last week on Million Dollar Picks with the Chargers in that game where they just couldn't do anything and Cousins just single-handedly delivered the game to them.
He did. I almost feel like I don't even want to play with house money with them.
There's another game I like with the... To me, the parlay is Miami and Kansas City.

Fine. Great.

The Dolphins home against the Jets.

Sauce Gardner, we're taping this on a Thursday night.

He's got a bad hamstring,

so he's either going to be playing hurt or not playing.

Either scenario, awful for the Jets

with the speed of the Dolphins.

Breeze Hall is questionable for the 100th straight week.

The Jets are awful. They're 1-5 on Sundays.
They're 1-6 on the road. No, they're 1-8 on Sundays.
1-6 on the road. They have three starters out on their offensive line.
Their left tackle and their entire right side. Miami's defense sneaky good.
Knife against the run.

Knife against the pass. Improving.

Improving. And you look at their two of losses, right? Two of missed

a bunch of games there. But the games they've lost with two

they lost to Buffalo twice. They lost to Green Bay.

They lost to Arizona.

I don't think they're bad. Well, you know who

likes playing against the Jets?

Who I'm ready to get in bed with?

Two of these nuts.

Two of these nuts loves playing

against the Jets. He's

Thank you. likes playing against the Jets, who I'm ready to get in bed with? Two of these nuts.
Two of these nuts loves playing against the Jets. He's 3-0 or straight up or whatever.
The numbers are very good. And on top of that, they're home.
And their offense is so much more comfortable. They're all of the precision stuff.
The DJ is spinning his home Miami sound. DJ Mikey Mack.
He loves it. He loves spinning those Miami records.
He loves the Miami sound. Oh, I think he's breaking out some 45s for this game.
Shout out to Lombardi. I think the DJ went into the attic and pulled some rare selections from the early 90s.
No, no. I want to no.
I want to ask you. Some Yacht Rock.
I mean, he really looked like a... Maybe he got inspired by the Yacht Rock doc.
Maybe he went and grabbed some doobies. Doesn't it look like he could be in the doc? I mean, I...
Well, he definitely could. Missed opportunity.
Yeah. The Jets line, I just don't see any...
They seem like they're... If they're not the worst coach team in the league, they're one of the three or four worst coach teams in the league.
They make penalties every week. Rogers clearly just can't wait for the season to be over.
Can't wait. It's just a disaster.
So it seems like a great spot. It's a great parlay leg.
It's a great teaser leg. However you want to put Miami.
Well, Miami money line, KC Moneyline is plus 109. Great, great.
I'm in. Done.
We'll mark that one down. The next one, you knew this was coming if you listen to this podcast.
Nothing I love more than a team that has fired their coach who the players are rebelling against than playing the next week. It's not 100%, but it feels like it's at least 80.
We just hit this with the Saints, which we did not do. You talked me out of it.
The fucking clogger came in, won a game outright. You talked me out of it.
I've forgiven you. But this Bears-Niners...
Well, it didn't happen for the Jets. The Jets lost their first game.
No, but they... Remember that game? They kind of should have won, and then they Jets-ed it up, but they didn't play better, and then they kind of fucked it up.
Yeah, the brick. Yeah, the brick.
Oh, brick. Yeah.
I've watched a few of these Bears games, and they've had some lows, right? They've had some games where they just look awful.

Oh, I get your point.

They've also had some pretty good moments and stretches and halves.

And I think they figured out something

with Caleb the last couple weeks

with just having him get rid of the ball faster.

Defense can create some pressure.

I don't know.

I just think they could win this game. It feels like a three-point game.
To me, the bigger thing is this is a

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this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a

this is a this is a this is a me, the bigger thing is this is a zag against a Niners team that feels like the season is going in the wrong direction. Not just not making the playoffs, but just kind of edging toward, hey, are we sure Kyle Shanahan should be the coach next year? Oh, you can't really do...
Can we do that? How many Niners fans have you talked to? Yeah, in the Niners fans' worlds, there's a lot of Kyle Shanahan consternation right now. I mean, they literally got, what, two-thirds of a legit game out of McCaffrey over 13 games? I'm not saying it's rational.
I'm just saying. I mean, he's literally the most important player in the league.
He's in the conversation for offensive player of the league every year that he's healthy. I don't know.
Taking that guy out of the mix? It seems like it. And they lose Ayuk.
Their defense isn't the same. No.
We see this in football every year with at least one team and sometimes two. The pedigree team that either just has way too many injuries or gets old.
And we just sit there for... I went against the Niners in that Packers game.
I've had success going against them, betting against them, because I just don't think they're good. Well, didn't Brandon Allen, I mean, that wasn't really going out on a limb with Brandon Allen.
I know. But the lines didn't really reflect even that.
Okay. And then it was like, I don't know.
I just thought the way they were being measured. They're a past tense team to me is my point.

Fine, fine, fine.

They're not a present tense team.

They're not an arrow pointing up team.

I think the Bears can beat them this week.

And I love the new coach bump.

The only thing that I'm concerned with is like,

when's the last time the Bears won a game on the road?

Right.

It's been, it's been,

that was one of the Eberflus hallmarks.

Like,

oh,

go find him on the road

and load up against,

against the bears.

Cause they just don't.

The thing that worried me

looking at the stats

was just the bears run.

Defense has been bad.

I think they're like 27th

against the run.

Yeah.

The Niners are obviously

a good running team,

but they're,

they're down.

Isaac Correndo.

Yeah.

Their third stringer,

right?

Yeah.

The fantasy darling this week.

And Trent Williams is hurt.

Might play,

might not.

Right.

Thank you. good running team, but they're down to Isaac Garendo.
Yeah, their third stringer, right? The fantasy darling this week. And Trent Williams is hurt.

Might play, might not.

For that Buffalo game, as soon

as Williams was out, I was like, oh, I can't have

enough Buffalo. Put all the buffalo on

my plate. That was my Thanksgiving

dessert. So Bears

plus three and a half

or Bears in a tease or bears adjusted or bears money line. What hardens your nipples out of those? Well, it depends on what color Caleb's fingernails are, but starting from there, I'd like the bears like in a tease.
That's the only thing that makes me feel comfortable. I don't – because the Niners had two diabolical situations in that Green Bay and Buffalo back-to-back, and I'm worried that there's like the basic operating function.
Now, again, let's see if Trent Williams is playing. That'll be a determining factor.
But out of all of the

options you're giving me, the Bears

with a teased leg is my

favorite. All right.

So what if I gave you the Bears plus eight and a half

in the Steelers money line

against Jameis and the

Browns, which is minus 110 on

FanDuel. Now we're talking.
That's

a good one. And that's our bet.

Love that one. Yes.
So

Steelers game.

Thank you. rounds, which is minus 110 on FanDuel.
There we're now talking. That's a good one.
And that's our bet. Love that one.
Yes. So Steelers game.
Cleveland has the really tough, exciting game in Denver in altitude on Monday night, playing six days later against Pittsburgh. In the Denver game, so my buddy Gus Ramsey, huge Denver fan, and he was telling me the D-back that was out was going to have a dramatic effect on the game because the guy that was going in for him could not cover anybody.
And he's like, I'm a little nervous about Jameis in this game because we have this guy that I think, and guess what? That guy gave up like 200 yards. But so I think that's made people think the Browns are a little more explosive than maybe they actually are.

So you sent me some Brown stats.

The Browns have lost 20 consecutive regular season games in Pittsburgh. Their last win was October 2003 with Tim Couch.

Yes.

I had been living in LA for less than a year when that happened.

Shut up.

Shut up to Emory Abrams.

In Mike Tomlin's career with the Steelers,

no opposing QB has gone 2-0 against the spread against him in the same season.

Thank you. And then in Mike Tomlin's career with the Steelers, no opposing QB has gone 2-0 against the spread against him in the same season.
Straight up against him. Straight up against him.
Yeah. Straight up.
Straight up. So Jameis beat them in that fluky, stupid Thursday snow game.
Right. Which had all the makings of a stay away, and then it turned out it was.
And I continue to think the steelers team's a little undervalued i think i actually think this line should be higher than six and a half but i'm delighted that the money line is only minus 310 and i feel like this is a gift from the gods and we have to put it in somewhere yeah i like that a lot i like the money line just fine over history in these division games when pittsburgh has six in that neighborhood. It doesn't, you know, the underdog division opponent tends to cover and that's been, you know, sort of the Tomlin thing.
You grab Tomlin and the Steelers when they are underdogs and you fade them against the spread when they're faves but this is a situation where we're just looking for the Steelers to win. I don't want to mess around with the points.
I mean, the ceiling and the floor with Jameis, it's like Mount Everest, the variance there. So let's just go ahead and pick the Steelers to win, have that be a leg, and then we can move on with our lives.
So Steelers, you could tease them with the over of 37 and a half, which I wanted to discuss quickly, even though it's December, a little colder. But the fact that the Browns will not be able to run the ball at all, and Nick Chubb, I love Nick Chubb, but it really feels like maybe he should have sat this year out.
But they're not going to be able to run the ball, which means they're going to throw it a lot, which means the ball is going to be in play all over the place. Raheem had an incredible stat today on the gambling show that Jameis actually broke the passing yards record if you include the 190-whatever interception yards that he had with his own yards.
He was like 600 yards receiving for both teams. Nearly 680 combined receiving yards.
But Raheem said that every interception has a five-point impact on the spread. Yeah.
Jameis is good for probably two interceptions in this game. I don't know.
It just seems like 37.5, lowering that with the Steelers as a tease. That's another way to go.
Then we're not relying on the Bears. We like the Steelers that much.
It's a danger zone when you start messing with the points in these AFC North games, especially in December. We recognize the risk, but if the weather doesn't look like it has a high chance of precipitation, it looks like it's just going to be 40 degrees cloudy ish.
The wind doesn't look insane. Um, so those are still, because we, we, we think that with Arthur Smith, you know, it's a miracle.
They get rid of that bum, Matt Canada. And all of a sudden they four games where, with both Justin Fields and Russell Wilson, all of a sudden, Pittsburgh can gain 400 yards on offense again.
It's a goddamn magic act. Kudos to Arthur Smith for getting his bag, cooking up some offense.
It's fun to watch. And did Arthur Smith, did he revitalize Russell Wilson's career? There's a whole case with Arthur Smith.
Russ is cooking. You can look at Arthur Smith and just be like, who was the quarterback that he had to work with? Everybody he had as a quarterback in the Falcons is not a starting quarterback in the NFL.
I mean, Ritter played a couple of weeks because three guys got hurt. But you know, maybe he was a good coach just in a bad situation.
I don't know what to think, but he's completely reinvigorated Pittsburgh. There's another scenario I'm just going to throw at you.
Since it seems like we like the Pittsburgh money line, the KC money line, and the Miami money line the most. You put those three together, that's plus177 on FanDuel.
So I wouldn't

do a full allocation

like you like to do. I wouldn't do a full

$200,000 on that one.

But that's worth $100,000.

That's worth $50,000.

It's nearly

one and three quarters to one.

We like that.

Minnesota, yes or no?

I mean, I'm all in on it.

It's a smash for me.

I love Minnesota.

I think they're going to kick the living crap out of Atlanta.

There's all kinds of numbers about Kirk indoors.

He stinks indoors.

He had all those years in Minnesota, but he hasn't been good.

I mean, there's a lot of angles if you want to fade Atlanta, but the biggest one is it's one-legged Cousins. I really do like the symmetry of the Cousins with Rodgers' parlay.
Fade the frauds. So would you put Steelers with Minnesota or the Bears? Definitely Minnesota.
So you know what? I'm going to put Steelers with Minnesota or the Bears definitely Minnesota

so you know what I'm going to put Steelers

with Minnesota and then if Minnesota

blows it it's my fault

I just get to blame you and call you a

motherfucker and send you nasty text

you can send you that

picture where you click

you think it's a news link but it's that guy

sitting on the toilet with the huge dong

I'm going to do that to you.

The P-Stream.

Send me some P-Stream, some next-gen P-Stream.

So Steelers, Vikes, we're already up 200K this week.

So Steelers, Vikes.

And I'm going to just do the Bears plus three and a half against the Niners

because I think they can win that one.

It's your money.

All right, let's do it.

Million-dollar picks. Week 14, we're already up $200,000 thanks to the Packers covering four and a half and Jordan Love throwing for 200 plus yards.
Won $870,000 last week, Cass. That's a good one.
Good one. For the season, we are now up $1.413 million.
Go back and fucking fact check it because that's the number, baby. Here we go.
Million dollar picks. The rest of them because we're already up 200K.
Miami Dolphins going against Aaron Rodgers who we can see on Netflix on December 17th in Enigma which I'll be watching as I pour salt in my eyes. I was going to say, which I won't be watching.
I'm going to watch it as I drip Tabasco sauce, like it's contact lens solution into my eyeballs. Well, Tabasco always makes me think of Gilbang.
But if we're going to watch it. I'm like Gilbang myself.
If we're going to watch, then I'm going to get next gen to watch.

I'll be watching with my P-stream.

Miami Moneyline against the Jets.

With the Kansas City Chiefs Moneyline against the Chargers.

We cannot figure out how the Chargers are going to score even 14 points in this game.

Especially if Bukaki doesn't play.

So Miami KC Moneyline, that is plus 109.

House, we're having a good run right now.

I'm going to get a little freaky.

Let me hear it. We're putting 250K on that.
Bang, bang. Yeah.
Speaking of Gil Bang. We're Gil Bang-ing that up to 250K.
Bears plus three and a half in San Francisco. New coach theory.
The Iberflus thing was so bad that there were reports of he started to speak to the team after the game and Jalen Johnson, their star cornerback, just interrupted him and started screaming at him that he doesn't understand why the coaching keeps blah, blah, blah. It sounded awful.
I feel bad. Listen.
I think he's like a decent enough dude. He'll be a good defensive coordinator.
He will be. He will be.
He just had no business being in that job. Like the whole world knew it.
We were making the jokes in the effing summer about the Bears. You have this prized possession, the number one draft pick.
Don't eff it up. And they put this dunce in charge, and he runs it right to the ground, and they wasted a year of this kid's career and his development.
Now,

here's the redemption story. Well, they could have gotten Mike Vrabel.
They could have gotten Jim Harbaugh.

They were real guys to get.

They couldn't talk to Belichick.

They couldn't talk to him. They couldn't have a conversation

with the man. Same thing with Sala and the

Jets. But here's the redemption story.

Over and over again, you see these teams hold on

to the coach for the extra year when we already

know the jig is up. Doofy doofus.
What's the redemption story? Thomas Brown, your guy, the new head coach. This week, this is when it starts.
We've seen the green sprouts shooting up of Caleb, you know, getting rid of the ball quickly. That offense gets cooking a little.
Team likes him. DJ Moore is alive for fantasy football playoff time.
I know. Yeah, so Bears plus three and a half.
New coach theory. It's almost a blind for me at this point.
You talked me out of it with the clogger and the Saints. I resented you for it.
We're doing it here. And also a chance to short the Niners.
Because to really have a season from hell, you got to keep losing

in December.

They haven't clinched season for else that.

You still have to have a couple more losses,

so we're going to do that. And then last but not least,

we love the Steelers at home against the

Browns.

Just like Jameis coming

off Monday night.

He's not beating Tomlin twice in the same

season. Steelers need the game.

It's not like it's like, oh man,

we got caught by surprise.

We relax. They need every game.

They're trying to win their division and get either

the two seed or the three seed.

We're throwing the Steelers in with the Vikings,

which you insisted on because they're going

against Kirk Cousins, who

basically died last

week and turned into a chalk outline that resembled John Jastrzemski watching the Miami Dolphins playoff game in my house. Well, I think he died like a month ago, but we finally caught on.
We finally realized. I'm just on the record as saying my shit detector was going off with this game.
It seems too easy. The Minnesota defense, I think, is a little overrated.
Okay. You talked me into it.
Steelers, Vikings.

It's minus 119 on FanDuel.

Just that has to win.

And we take it.

We're putting 200K on that.

We're putting 200K on the Bears.

Plus three and a half as well.

And then, you know what else?

Just for fun.

Just for shits and giggles.

Let's hear it.

A little 50K extra.

Plus 177.

Steelers, Miami, KC,

all to win.

Little extra.

We do like it.

Little sprinkling.

Who Fs us?

Let's play who Fs us on that one.

Not KC.

Miami always worries me.

I agree.

That is the answer.

The disc jockey.

It's true.

Tua taking a hit.

One last hurrah. Anyway, those are the million dollar picks for week 14.
We're going to take one more break and then House and I are going to talk NBA really quick. This episode is brought to you by Nissan.
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House, quick basketball stuff. I was in Denver for a couple days with Brasillo.
We did a great live show. Super fun.
Gambling is legal in Denver. I could actually get FanDuel in Denver and I could make some fun bets, which I did, including Jordan Love, 200 plus yards with the Pack which I tweeted out.
That's why we're cashing, yeah. But there were some future bets, and it got me looking at some of the over-under stuff and to make the playoff stuff.
For the NBA. What do you think the Atlanta Hawks regular season win total is right now on FanDuel? The Hawks are 12-11.
They've won five straight. 43? I didn't look.
I haven't looked at it. It's 38 and a half, House.
Wow. Yeah.
Yes. They have a bunch of high-quality wins over the last 10 days, and we loaded way the F up on them getting to like 41 or 42 games.
And I have been, I felt very validated. You know, who's playing really effing good and was a key component of the handicap for why Atlanta could be capable of turning the page.
DeAndre Hunter. Can that dude please stay on the floor? Keep DeAndre Hunter healthy.
Make sure he's getting his vitamins, getting his sleep because he, you know, the Dyson Daniels thing cannot be under understated or underrated. The addition of like a proper defense player.
Can I just tell you, I did stop. I love Atlanta.
I did ringer 100. I had Dyson Daniels ahead of DeJounte Murray in the ringer 100 and he was like 10 to 15 spots ahead.
So it's your, solanta won that trade by they don't win that trade if it was a straight up they also got larry nance and two first round picks yeah yeah so the atlanta thing i was just startled by so of course i had to bet it and then i was like well i might as well throw some other over-unders in there might as well So I did two different bets. What do you think Oklahoma City's over-under was heading into tonight? Oh, this is fun.
They won tonight. I haven't looked.
They won tonight. I think it made them 17-5.
Let me guess. I'm going to say 58.
So it's 57.5. I threw that in.
Okay. Okay.
I did pretty good. And what do you think the Houston The Houston Rockets Who were playing as we tape What do you think Their over-under was? Amazing Did we all three of us Lock the Houston Rockets Over? No, you guys did I didn't I bet the Rockets Are now 46 and a half Well, they were 42 and a half When we did it You You and Rosado locked it.
It was now 50 and a half on family. Holy moly.
I know. And guess what else? I bet it anyway.
So I did Atlanta, OKC, and Houston plus 581 for the overs on that. Bang.
Bang. Then the other one I did, I did those three.
What do you think Dallas' over-under was? They won tonight. And by the way, Dallas has been sneaky, contendery for the last two weeks.
They have rounded into shape. They were one of my locks in the preseason, and their number was like in the 49.5.
They weren't even a 50. I bet they're 50 now.
I bet they're 50 now. You did not have them as a lock, but you did have them.

But we, yeah, they were.

I think they were 49 and a half in the preseason.

Yeah, they're 50 and a half and they're 51 and a half now.

So I put that in there.

Fine.

And then I had to the Lakers.

What do you think the Lakers are right now?

It's got to be close to what the preseason was.

Are they like 43?

44 and a half.

Okay.

So a game and a half.

So before the year, they were 42 and a half.

Oh, okay.

So 44 and a half.

That was the number.

That's great.

Those five together, Atlanta over, OKC over, Houston over, Lakers under, Dallas over, was

over 22 to one on Fandle. You need to tweet that out.
I happily put $100 on that. You need to tweet that out.
I was so happy. Go get it.
So the Lakers would have to go 45 and 37 to beat that, and they cannot guard anybody. Nope.
Nope. Other than your Wizards.
So here's another one. I didn't bet

this because I couldn't decide whether

it was a good line or not. What do you think

the wizards over under was heading

into the game today, which they got killed in?

Oh, amazing.

14 and a half.

That's what it was. Hey!

Hey, I didn't even look.

I swear I didn't look.

Well, you didn't look at any of these. No, I didn't.
You don't have to keep telling us. We believe you.
14 and a half. And my initial instinct was that's way too high.
And then I was like, man, if you win less than 14 and a half games, that's becoming one of the more unsuccessful seasons in the history of the league. In the history of the league.
I stayed away. The Celtics were like 62 and a half, which I was surprised by.
So here's the other thing I did. They have make the playoff bets.
And I was frantically doing this on the plane before the plane took off. I'm just going to ask you if these teams will make the playoffs and you can tell me yes or no.
Dallas Mavericks? Yes. Houston Rockets? Yes.

Denver Nuggets?

Yes. Ooh, you

paused the same way I did, but yes.

Denver's number was minus 400 to make the

playoffs. Yeah.

Minnesota Timberwolves?

Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Phoenix Suns?

Yes. Okay.

I thought those five would make it as well

Memphis Grizzlies

awesome story

I honestly think they are

going to make the playoffs yes

so

my thinking was those were the six

teams other than

OKC so OKC

and those six in the west and I don't know

who's getting the eighth spot you can tell me it's Golden State

you know like what

Sacramento's not dead

Thank you. Other than OKC.
So OKC and those six in the West. And I don't know who's getting the eighth spot.
You can tell me it's Golden State. You know, like what you can tell me.
Sacramento's not dead. Those six with Atlanta.
What do you think Atlanta's playoff odds were? Atlanta to make the playoffs. Like decent.
They're going to make. I think they're going to make the playoffs.
Yeah. Plus 106.
Yeah. So all of those together was over six to one.
OK. And I was trying to figure out who fucks that up.
Dallas, Houston, Denver, Minnesota, Phoenix, Atlanta, or Memphis. Like the odds would say Atlanta.
Yeah. And yet if you watch Atlanta, I don't know how they're not going to be a seven or an eight seed in the east.
They can play defense. They try hard every night now.
I think the coach likes the team. They trade.
They're getting a better version of him than they've had before. They kind of got all their injuries.
I'll knock on wood for them because we're rooting for them. We're invested in them.
We feel like they owe us because we did this last season with them. They were the fuck job team for it.
We would have had a legendary year last year with the over-unders and they've completely fucked us. But I want to knock on wood and say they got most of their injury stuff out of the way at the beginning of the season, hopefully.
Because look, the two wins that the Washington Wizards have, back-to-back wins against the Atlanta Hawks. Amazing.
Only two wins. And if Atlanta wins those, they're like 14-9 right now.
Right. But I was looking at the game yesterday.
It's like kind of the perfect box score where Capella has 17 rebounds. Daniel has six assists, three steals.
Risa Shea hits a couple threes. Trae Young's terrible.
He's six for 19. And Jalen Johnson has a 23, 13, and 5 and they beat Milwaukee by 15 points when Trey doesn't even play well.
To me that means they're a playoff team. And on top of that you know when I clicked into that game and saw early on that the Hawks were off a little bit, up by a little bit.
It's like oh is Giannis not playing? Oh Giannis was playing. Because Milwaukee is like the poor man's Denver this year to me.
They're only competitive if their super duper star is having an extra terrestrial performance. Another triple-double, by the way, for the Joker tonight with 20 effing rebounds, but they're not competitive at all in the game.
Cleveland just dog walks them the whole game.

I almost bet that when I was in Denver

and I just

don't like betting. I just don't like

betting against Jokic.

It's why you took Denver over in the preseason.

But it was one of those things where

this seems like a horrible matchup for them.

Cleveland's just way better as an all-around

team. Murray, I watched some of that game.
I had that on the small TV as I was watching the football game. Murray just isn't going by guys anymore.
And I noticed it in person. Priscilla and I talked about it on our Denver pod, but he's getting like, he has the guy on his side, but he's not like getting the half step over them.
The guy's just next to him, and he can't ever really get to where he wants to go. And I think it's a massive, massive, massive concern.
I'm very worried about them, House. I understand.
Yeah, so Atlanta in the playoffs, if you're just looking standings-wise, you figure Cleveland, Boston, Orlando, New York, and Milwaukee are locks to make the playoffs. I think those are the only

five. Atlanta's the sixth seed

right now. Miami's seven.

Brooklyn's going to start

making trades soon because they don't want to be good.

Chicago's

kind of frisky and

might not... It's the same Chicago.

There's a feel-good story. They had a

big win tonight. The play-in bulls.

They can't wait to be in the 9-10 game. And Indiana has lost four in a row.
They're 9-14 and they might have the worst body language of any Eastern Conference team. They're the one.
What happened? What happened to the Pacers? So, I've asked around a little and I've also watched them. And I think Siakam's a really good player.

Yep.

And I'm not sure he fits in with how they played last year

when we liked watching them so much.

Interesting.

Those first two months when Hal Burton was great

and they're flying up and down.

Flying.

Flying.

And then this year you put Siakam in there.

You bring Matherin back, who I think is a little alpha-y.

And they just seem like more of a normal basketball team

than the team that we watched last year that was balls to the wall.

Thank you. Matherin back, who I think is a little alpha-y.
And they just seem like more of a normal basketball team than the team that we watched last year that was balls to the wall.

And they don't seem that happy to me.

So to me, they're East Coast, Minnesota,

where the roster shifted in Minnesota in a more obvious way.

But they don't have the same kind of thing that made them special last year. For Indiana, it was that pace.
And I don't see the same pace this year. Do you? No, I haven't sat down and done any deep looks at the pacers.
I just keep looking at the outcomes of games and the box scores and trying to make sense out of why they're not competitive in these games. They're like getting blasted.
No, and you know, it's the classic year after syndrome too, right? Is Halliburton, is there some kind of hangover from the Olympics? He didn't play in the Olympics, so it shouldn't have affected him. Well, how about this? How many points a game do you think they averaged this year? Last year, remember, they were in the 120s.
They were like 123, some crazy number. It's like 108, 109.
I don't know. I don't have it in front of me.
Last year, they were 123.3. Yeah, what are they now? This year, they're 113.4.
Okay. They've lost 10 points a game.
Yeah. And yet they have Matherin and they have Siakam for a full season.
So that doesn't make sense, but it does make sense if you watch them. They're not, they don't play with the same pace.
And I, to me, they're the most, I think the most likely trade team in either conference right now is Indiana. Makes a ton of sense.
I get people like Chicago.

But if you watch Chicago, they actually

seem like they like playing with each other and they

have a specific identity. Indiana

doesn't know what they are right now.

That is the issue, right?

Their identity, they have to

outscore teams because they still don't

defend. I mean, I haven't gotten sat down and

looked at the advance numbers. They're almost

minus five for the season. They're giving up

118.2 and their score on 113.4.

So this is, but this brings

Thank you. I mean, I haven't gotten that down and look at the advanced numbers.
They're almost minus five for the season. They're giving up 118.2 and their score on 113.4.
So this is, but this brings me to my Atlanta point. I just think Atlanta took their spot and I don't really see a path for Indiana unless there's some trade that they have coming, but they just signed Siakam a huge deal.
Right. Right.
If you look at their, Miles Turner's going to be a free agent at the end of the year. If you look at their assets, they have Walker, the kid they took in the lottery two years ago, that hasn't really had an impact for them.
If you look at their assets, I don't know, they already traded a couple picks for Siakam. I mean...
But on the other hand, they made the Final Four last year. Matherin's good.
I think they have some good guys. But I think he's the trade piece.
Yeah. Which one? Nembhard or Matherin? I think Matherin is the trade piece.
Okay. He's good.
I mean, that should fetch something. One of the things that hurt with them is, how many games does Neesmith miss now? Yeah, he's only played six.
And I think that's one of the reasons their defense has gone backwards. Okay.
But anyway, the likely trade teams for me, Indiana no question. I'll be really interested to see what happens with Minnesota and Randle and whether there's even a market for him.
I went through all the teams. Anyone interested in Julius Randle for 33 or 36, whatever he makes, it gets really hard.
It's hard to find takers. You end up staring at the Charlotte type of teams.
But all those teams are trying to tank now. Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
I'm surprised. Why aren't we talking about the Pelicans? The Pelicans, isn't everybody available on the Pelicans? I guess, but who? Ingram's an expiring.
What are you getting for him? They just signed McCollum, he's making over 30 a year, like is that, are people looking for all offense guards who can't guard anybody making 30 plus a year? That's a oof. Probably not I like McCollum, but Is the right thing to do for them to just suck and get the very best? I think that's, well they beat Phoenix tonight tonight.
I had that game on. I don't know what they were thinking.

Damn it. Yeah, they broke their win streak.
The Zion thing is the

most interesting

story in sport. I mean, New Orleans is

in a weird spot because they don't really have anybody

covering the team.

They're kind of this anonymous NBA team.

They're playing in a super small

market. They don't even have like,

I don't even know who, if there was stuff going on in New Orleans, I don't even really know how we'd find out. I don't know when Zion's coming back.
They showed him on the bench today. He was wearing like one of those jogging suits where it was hard to tell if he'd put on 50 pounds or not.
They just signed Trey Murphy. They can't trade him.
They have, Hawkins, I would say, has some trade assets. So yeah, you're right.
New Orleans is in there. But to me, Indiana, that's the one I'm watching short term because I think they have pieces, there's moves, and I want to see if they do something.
And then the other one who I saw in person, Rissola and I really talk about it in the Denver show, but Golden State. Now, they didn't have Draymond.
Draymond solves a lot of second ball handler stuff with them, creating shots for people. Without him, Curry's really their only shot creator.
They felt like a three-for-one team for me as I was watching them. They desperately need...
They have all these guys who are all fine and none of them can create a shot. So when Denver just took out Curry in the last five minutes,

Yoko just calling out every Warriors play.

And

they just didn't have that second

guy who's like, I got this. Let me get a couple

buckets. Even somebody like Matherin would be

a huge help for them.

So

I left the game

thinking I actually wouldn't be opposed

to them trading for Zach Levine.

Okay. And I don't

know with this, how the apron, I don't

I don't know with this, how the apron, I don't even know how the trades work anymore and whether it's even conceivable and does it have to match exactly. But that's the type of guy they need.
And Curry being 36, I just don't think you can waste the window anymore. Otherwise, just say, you know what? We are who we are, and that's it.
I felt that way the last two years, I felt that way with this team. They just can't get them help.
They just keep saying, we're going to roll the ball back out there with the guys that we got, and they just got worse. I mean, really, they never recovered from Draymond punching Jordan Poole in the face.
They didn't. A sentiment I kind of understand now.
But, you know, it's been two seasons, two full seasons, and we got excited at the beginning of this season. They won in 22, so I don't...
You're right. Don't shed tears for the Warriors, but...
No, I'm not saying it. Right.
But I think the burden that they have on Curry now at the age that he's at is unrealistic. And I think know it and I was watching last night, I was watching how hard he has to run around and get open and do all the Curry stuff that he's been doing forever but now he's doing it as a 36 year old and I don't know basketball is really hard to play.
Did you see that? There was that thing that came out about about people running during basketball games and the amount of the amount of miles you run during a year. Somebody tried to do a study on it to try to figure out and basically took all the three-point shots and the pace of the game and figured out some formula to compare it to the 80s, the 90s.
And it's just like there's way more running and sprinting now is basically the theory of it. It backed up what I've thought as I go to the games.
It just feels like it's harder to play. It just feels like you're constantly on the move, sprinting, doing rush outs, flying around, and I don't know.
I just think it's unrealistic. It's much more impactful mileage now.
Yeah, because my biggest regret of our over-unders was the Phoenix one because I think we gave KD's health too much credit because he played so many games last year. And he's a guy who's been in the league since the 2007 draft.
He's hurt again. He's been hurt twice already this year.
And for what we were laying for that bet which was what was the over it was like 48 and a half something yeah it was in the in the high 40s might have been 47 and a half though yeah 47 and a half and all three of us did a lot i don't regret it i don't regret it not yet i'll regret it if if uh if he can't play yeah right now they're 12 and 9 we're gonna be sweating out. We are going to be sweating that one.
Because it's like one more injury and they look pretty ordinary when it's out there. Anyway, so...
And then Lakers, I don't... Lakers will do some sort of panic trade.
I just don't know what it is. I think if they're actually trying to be competitive this year, they know that you can't play LeBron, who's, by metrics, like one of the five worst defensive players of the league now, with Reeves, with Connect, and with D'Lo.
You can't have those four guys on the basketball court at the same time, unless you're trying to play a game that's like 145 to 143. So my guess is Reeves would be the trade guy.
Right? Because his contract, you put it with something else. It's an amazing contract.

They still have that first round pick in 29.

Which is super valuable.

Would you trade Reeves?

Yes, definitely.

I'm trying to see what his new... You have to have the right guy.

He's like 15 million bucks a year.

Yeah.

Great, great price. 12.9, 13.9, 14.8.
It's a great contract. Russell's 18.6 expiring.
So already that gets you over 30. Rui with 17 gets you to like the high 40s, right? So now you could, if you really wanted to make a run at an expensive guy, you could.
But I'm sure Danny Ainge is just waiting. He's just waiting for them to panic.
Ainge? Why? What's Ainge got? Because Ainge has all those pieces. He's got John Collins at 26.5.
He's got Sexton at 18.3. Jordan Clarkson at 14.
And he's got, most importantly, Kessler at three. The Lakers are not taking any of those dudes.
Sexton and Kessler would help them. They would genuinely help them.
And they have white guys to offer Utah. That's like the best currency you could have.
They're going to be dangling Austin Reeves. They're like, hey, Utah, look.
The guy that I would think that the Lakers would have circled Jimmy Butler. That's who I would think that they would be going in that direction, right? They're not going for Walker fucking Kessler.
We're going to go get a big, super-duper, big dong star

that's a tough guy, and he's already on the banana boat,

and that's it. He's our dude.
Something like Jimmy Butler.

I like the way you're thinking, Huss. Let me look at this for a second.

So that would be Reeves.

That would have to be basically Reeves, Russell and Rui. Bye-bye.
And by the way, all those guys would be like, Miami? Yes! We're in! Kyle, turn the TikTok camera on. Here's what I actually think the Lakers should do.
I would trade Davis and cash in on him. What's he worth? Wow.
Embiid. Embiid for Davis.
I would have been. Honestly, what would Davis be worth? Everything.
Who can come up with enough? Let's say he was in play for the Rockets. Would they have to think about that? Of course they'd have to think about that.
Of course they would. What kind of question is that? Yes.
Yes. Yes, a million yeses.
I just don't think... The Lakers are not trading Anthony Davis.
If the goal is to win a title over the next four years... The goal is to win the title this year or next.
They have no chance. I agree.
Zero chance. No chance.
None of winning the title. No chance.
Zero. There is no way.
There's a guy. They need a guy.
They need a time machine. They do need a time machine.
Yes. Look, it's amazing that LeBron is still playing and that he can score 29 points in a game in his 22nd year in the league.
They're not winning a title with him. They're not winning a title with the team they have, and they can't play defense.
And they know it. No argument.
He was 31, as healthy as he's ever been, making a ton of money. They dedicated themselves.
They became a three-point shooting team shooting team except for they can't shoot threes I'm going to hold on to that clip that I sent you that's going to be my part of my where LeBron misses the entire rim he misses so badly that the announcer is like wide left that's not even like, wide left! That's not even... Oh, my! Wide left! Yeah, that would be...
Indiana's my number one trade team, though. Anyway.
Okay. That's it.
That's my little basketball report for you. Who would you bet right now for the finals if you had to make a bet? Oklahoma City and Boston.
It's funny. I don't think that's changed and yet I continue to think Cleveland's really really good they are really good and I have Celtics fans in my life who aren't really focused on it enough yet one of the things about them Mitchell is about as unafraid of the Celtics as any guy in the league.
He really has so much confidence against them. They have size, and there's still that Okoro spot that I think I don't know if they're going to try to upgrade that or whether they just like the chemistry so much, but I also would just counsel in favor of, don't be dismissive of the Knicks.
If the Knicks arrive in the playoffs healthy, those guys, they're alpha. They are not...
They think that Boston is beta, and they think that they're alpha, and that's going to be a hell of a fist fight. I'm just telling you.
I'll welcome that one. Okay, I'm just telling you.
They think it'll be a fist fight, and it might be a good one. The Knicks aren't the team.
It's Cleveland's the team. Now, the Knicks, if Robinson can come back and actually be healthy.
Yes. I said they're healthy.
I figure there's a buyout guy for them. That we don't know who it is in February or beginning of March, but there's some guy they're going to get who is excited to play the Knicks,

who has a relationship with Wes and Leon.

For sure.

And there's some sort of DiVincenzo replacement type swing

that will be on their team that I don't know who it is yet.

Is it, it can't be DiVincenzo?

No, because he is traded.

He would like to come back.

Minnesota will be able to trade him.

Yes.

I don't think they'll be able to trade Randall, but anyway. All right.
How's the Washington Commanders? Yes. What's your enthusiasm level right now? Super high.
Okay. I tried.
I did a whole emotional hedge, a whole thing. I made my best bet, Tennessee, last week.
It was worth it. It was worth it.
I mean, that's a good investment by me. Washington kicked their ass.
I love it. I'm going to go to, I'm not even going to say it out loud.
I'm, I'm, uh, I'm cautiously optimistic for the fortunes of my Washington football team. That's the way I'll say it.
Who do you think gets benched first? Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, or John Jastrzemski from the Sunday ringer pregame show? Who's going to get the hook? Not JJ. JJ is a starter for life.
I saw an unnamed vet in the Ringer locker room say JJ was hosting for his starting job this week. I won't tolerate it.
No JJ slander on any of these shows. I'm just kidding, JJ.
I mean, he did start a podcast part today. He was saying like, guys, don't think I'm crazy.
Anytime he starts a sentence with don't think I'm crazy, I'm like, oh, no, here you go. He's going to take a terrible quarterback.
Here it comes. I enjoy it.
I always enjoy it. Yeah.
No, JJ, you can turn it around. We all have faith.
Joe House, great to see you. I'll see you on the Ringer Sunday pregame show this Sunday, 11 a.m.
on YouTube TV and FanDuel TV. Great to see you.
Great to see you. This episode is brought to you by Verbo, private vacation rentals.
With Verbo, you always get the whole house so you and your fellow fans can cheer on your team in peace. What's worse than watching a game with somebody who's not rooting for the same team you're rooting for? Nothing.
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Shop now at homedepot.com. All right, somebody I've never had in the podcast before.
Jesse, I know him as the body, Ventura, but he is going to be returning to NBC, WWE Saturday Night's main event, returning to broadcast television Saturday, December 14th, 8 p.m. ET Live.
And Jesse, you're going to be part of the announcing crew. You're going to do a match or two.
And not only are you a Hall of Famer, you are one of the great broadcasters of all time. So I'm so happy to have you on TV again.
Well, thanks, Bill. It's great to be here.
And the ironic thing is that we're holding this event in the very building that we held the very first one way back in the 80s. So which building is it? I don't even know.
I don't know. Nassau Coliseum, wherever.
The one out in Long Island. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's where we held it back then. And so they're going to hold this very first one of the new NBC Saturday night's main event.
And what's exciting about it, and I got the word on this, it's going, the whole show is going to be a throwback. What does that mean? Well, that means it's going to look like it did before.
Really? Yeah. The graphics, everything? Yes.
The wrestlers are not coming down that ramp. They're not coming with all the lights and spectacular.
They're coming in through the crowd. Wow.
Like the old days. That's why they brought me back.
Amazing. Wow.
You should be back anyway. We're going back in the time capsule only.
It's going to be four times a year. Unbelievable.
So what was of all the Friday night main events, Saturday night main event, and I know it's almost 40 years ago, but what, what, what was the most memorable one for you? Because you were there for most of them.

I'll get to them, but I need to make a more of an introduction here.

Yeah.

Hell has frozen over.

Why?

Because I never dreamed I would be back in the WWE now, WWF, until hell froze over.

I had a friend, Glenn Frey of the Eagles.

And I remember when the Eagles broke up, they thought, oh, it's over. We'll never hear another Eagles song.
The differences are too much. They'll never be able to bend fences.
And lo and behold, Glenn got together with Don Henley and away they go. They came back and they cut that phenomenal album when hell freezes over.
And I kind of feel that way, that hell has frozen over for me because I never believed in my wildest dreams I would be back doing wrestling again. Well, in the Eagles case, hell froze over because they made a shitload of money on that concert tour.
I think that's one of the reasons, right? That was one of the first great nostalgia tours ever. So what's the case for you? Why did hell freeze over? Well, because for me, it's a full circle of my career.
I can't go back in the United States Navy where I spent my first six years.

After I graduated from high school, I was in the Navy, United States Navy, for six years.

I can't do that because there's age limits.

My friend Rudy Bosch stayed as long as you could.

He had 44 years in when they threw Rudy out. But anyway, that aside, but this is ironic because it means my career has gone full circle.
Right. Because, and here's the part that I don't understand.
They couldn't control me before. Why do they believe they can now? Oh, I like this.
Is that really why, is that what happened with you? They felt like they couldn't control you. Like when you talk about fences being mended.
I was thrown out. I was uncontrollable.
Jesse, the body Ventura, number one, I tried to unionize. Right.
Number two, I wouldn't allow them to market me without negotiating it. that's what ultimately got me thrown out of the WWF, WWE.

Then I went to WC. market me without negotiating it.
That's what ultimately got me thrown out of the WWF, WWE.

Then I went to WCW. Here's the behind the scenes story.
I went to WCW. They went into turmoil.
The guy who hired me got fired. They brought in Bill Watts, who was an old school relic, who didn't understand the business

had changed.

It had gone to television now, not to putting seats in the stands.

The money was now going to be in TV.

He didn't get that.

So he comes in and then he gets fired.

And I busted my butt behind the scenes to get Eric Bischoff into the position.

Thank you. And then he gets fired and I busted my butt behind the scenes to get Eric Bischoff into the position.
And here's where it got interesting. Eric Bischoff then got the head job at WCW.
And then behind my back, he went out and got Hogan because Hogan was leaving the WWF or getting booted or whatever was happening with his career. They gave Hogan total artistic control.
He came in, got me immediately fired because he took over my look. He put the shades on, he put the do-rag on, and he became a villain.
He couldn't have Jesse Ventura be there and become Jesse Ventura. So he got me fired.
And in essence, my wrestling career was over. I had worked for the two major, I wasn't going into one of these little outlaw ones in your own hometown.
That wasn't about to happen. I looked to other things.
What did I do? I went to the dirtiest business on the planet, got myself elected mayor, and went on and got myself defeated the Democrats and Republicans at the same time, and got myself elected governor of Minnesota, and dig this. I only raised $300,000 to do it.
You want to know who could have been president if he wanted to be? You're talking to him. Well, you beat a legacy kid too in Minnesota.
You upended both parties and beat Humphrey's son. Oh, I beat Hubert Humphrey's son.
I beat Senator Norm Coleman. Well, on the Democratic side at that time, we called it my three sons.
You had the sons of Hubert Humphrey, Orville Freeman, and Mondale. So it was my three sons on the Democratic side, like the old TV show.
The legacy kids always have trouble in politics and sports. I want to go back to Hogan though.
And there's been a lot written and a lot discussed, but you haven't seen it yet, but we did the six episode documentary on Vince McMahon for Netflix. And we had a big section in there about when you tried to unionize in 86 before WrestleMania 2 that we ended up in the final cut.
We only had six plus hours. It's in there, but we cut it down a little from one of the cuts we had like eight, nine minutes because it was so interesting.

And what really happened

was Hogan shanked you and Hogan

admitted to us on camera

that yeah, he went and ran to Vince

and told him what you were trying to do and you were basically

trying to upend WrestleMania to

get it so that they would have

health benefits, all kinds of stuff

that they didn't have.

Okay, here's the story. Yeah.
It was, I knew this was the perfect time. And then, of course, we had to get with the Charlotte guys and have them walk out also.
If we could have got us and Charlotte, it was perfect timing. All the publicity was out there.
He couldn't change nothing. There wasn't time for wasn't the pay-per-views are being sold the Wrestlemania 2 three cities the whole thing it's it's two weeks before the show all we had to do was as in mass walk out go to the media and say we refuse to wrestle unless federal negotiators for union are brought in.
It's federal law. He couldn't stop it.
It's federal law. And we refuse to perform until we're allowed to unionize or collective bargain and bring these people in.
And I made that passion speech. and when I was done, I went home and the next day Vince calls me immediately.
Well, I found out he apparently called all the wrestlers and threatened them all and all of this stuff, I guess. I didn't know about that, but he called me and I stood up to him.
I said, Vince, I said, this isn't just to fight you. I said, this is about the fact right now, and this was mid eighties.
I said, right now I'm paying $5,000 a year for health insurance for me and my family. I said, if we had your own pocket, out of my pocket, if we had a union, their strength in numbers, maybe I'd only have to pay $2,000 a year instead of $5,000.
I said, Vince, I've seen hundreds of guys give 20 years of their life to this business. And in the end, they ain't got a pot to piss in, a window to throw it out of.
I said, we're wrestlers. We're not financial planners.
And I said, if we had a union, maybe a guy could retire on 500 bucks a month and get something for the 20, 30 years you give to this business. I said, it isn't just about fighting you.
I said, sure. And we'd like working conditions to where if you go on the road three days in a row,

you're then given so many days off.

Well, hold on.

Wait a second.

You got to give context on this because in the 70s and 80s, you guys are on the road

for 300, 310 days a year.

You're wrestling everywhere.

You're in all the territories nonstop.

I'll tell you how bad it was when I got injured with pulmonary emboli, blood clots in the lungs.

Yeah.

That was caused by flying.

Really?

Yes.

They've determined it today that you're very more susceptible.

That's why you need to exercise on planes.

So, and they don't say nothing now because the airline people are well aware of it.

I get up on every plane and do toe raises for 10 minutes. The flight attendant won't say a word to you.
They know exactly what you're doing. But the point is, here's how bad it was.
The month that I had the pulmonary emboli blood clots, do you know how many days that month I flew? 28. Oh my God.
Really? Yes. And you were one of the headliners at that point, like you were going against Hogan.
You were one of their best guys. You're talking 30 days in a month and 28 of them when I was on an airplane.
Let's get back to, that's what I wanted the union for. I wanted the union and for Hogan to then make a statement.
Well, I didn't want to get paid like everybody else. He makes it sound like unionizing is socialism and communism.
Does Pat Mahomes make the same money as everybody else in the NFL? Of course not. He makes way more and they have a union.
Does LeBron James make more than everybody in the NBA? Yes, of course he does. And they have a union.
Hogan would have still made more. That's a lame excuse.
You want to know how bad it was? It out my court case my court case against vince we have the numbers from wrestlemania three right the big one pontiac silver dome yeah hogan against andre and then the greatest match that i ever saw ricky steamboat againsto. The greatest match I'd ever broadcast or ever seen, that match.
But that aside, we got the numbers in my court case. Hulk Hogan made more that night than all of the rest of us combined, including Andre.
Wow. I mean, he did probably was the biggest reason they sold out

the Silverdome. Now you want to know why he'd lay his life down to stop a union? Well, he denied it forever and ever, right? He always said he never did it.
And now he admits that he did it. Of course he did.
And here's why. And here's why.
If you come from the business during my era of the old territory days,

the worst thing you can be accused of being is an office stooge. That's somebody who rides around with the boys, pretends he's one of them, but all the while he's listening to the gossip and he's reporting it back to the promoters, taking care of himself and being, quote, an office stooge.
That in my day of wrestling was the worst thing you could ever be. And that's what Hogan was.
Your relationship with him, you didn't know for a few years, it didn't come out to the steroid trial that he had in 94 that he had been actually going back and telling Vince. It didn't come out until my trial that I had.
And it only came out because I told my attorney the story. And when you depose someone, you can ask anything in a deposition.
So I told my attorney the story and my attorney was great.

They beat Vince.

And my attorney, I said,

if you can find out who ratted me,

I would really love to know

who was the rat in the dressing room

that ratted me out.

And so during the deposition,

I can't say anything.

I'm sitting there and my attorney asked Vince,

he said, Mr. McMahon, he said, has there ever been a union in wrestling? And Vince said, no.
And my attorney said, has anyone ever tried to form a union in wrestling? And Vince thought a moment and he said, yeah. He said, I think Jesse Ventura might've spouted his mouth.
I remember he used the term spouted his mouth off about it one time a number of years ago. And my attorney said, oh, really? He said, did you hear Mr.
Ventura talk about unionizing? And Vince went, no. And my attorney said, well, then how are you aware of it? With no hesitation.
Vince went, Hulk Hogan told me.

Thank you. And my attorney said, well, then how are you aware of it? With no hesitation, Vince went, Hulk Hogan told me.
I almost fell out of my chair. Now, I had to sit there.
I can't show no emotion. I can't, you know, it's a deposition.
I can't talk. I can't, nothing.
I can only sit there and confer with my attorney. it was it was as it was as rough as getting hit in the face with a hard left jab.

Because Hulk Hogan had, I thought, been my friend.

Who did you think did it then?

Before you found out it was Hogan, who did you think was the one that told Vince?

I had no idea. That's why I wanted to find out.

I wanted to know who was the rat in the dressing room. Because I made sure there was nobody from the office when I made the speech.
When I made the, because I made sure of it. Pat Patterson wasn't there.
Strongbow wasn't in there. None of the agents were there.
so you knew because you started wrestling almost 50 years ago

and you were in, I think the Portland territory where you wrestled against my, one of my favorites, Snuka back when, back when, uh, he really had the hops. You're in Minnesota.
That's when you teamed up with Adrian Adonis. Sure.
AWA. Um, but then you ended up in the WWF back then, early eights, right around when Hogan was in there as a bad guy.
So you must have known him forever. No, no.
Hogan came into the AWA when I was there. Oh, right, right.
So that was even like the 79-80 range. And then Vern wouldn't give him the title and Vern wouldn't let him market himself.
And so Hogan made the smart move. He jumped right away to Vince who let him do all that.
And, you know, financially, yeah, I don't begrudge Hogan that. I did the same thing too.
Yeah. You know, but, uh, uh, him ratting us, that was low.
Well, you know, but, but anyway, uh, you anyway, that was the nature of the business. Everyone's out for themselves.
It's always been that nature of the business. That's how the business survived, was backstabbing.
You know, we had a couple of what-if scenarios when Vince took over. and we played it up a little in the documentary, but not as much as I think we could have.
Because one of the guys he wanted was Dusty Rhodes. Because he knew he had to give it to Bob Backlund.
He knew he needed a more charismatic champ. And then the other one was Hogan.
And at that point, Hogan was in the AWA, as you said. But Vern Gagne wouldn't give him the title.
Coming off Rocky when they were on ESPN. And there's this whole alternate universe where Vern Gagne just says, I should just build AWA around this guy and Hogan never leaves and becomes like this ESPN star.
And I don't know what happens to wrestling if that happens. I don't know.
Who the heck would know? It's a good sliding door though, right? Then it would have been a hell of a lot more challenging for Vince to go across the country like he did. Right.
Because Vince needed Hogan just as Hogan needed him. They needed each other.
Yeah. You know, that was a mutual deal.
And don't begrudge either one of them. You know, what they accomplished was remarkable.
And to be part of it. You know? Yeah.
I mean, it worked out perfectly for all sides. Yeah.
And it worked out and it, and it worked out great for me because, you know, unfortunately my career ended right before I was due to wrestle Hogan the night before I was due to wrestle Hogan in LA. My first match with him in the WWF.
And I'm seven days critical in San Diego hospital so bad. My wife had to fly out to San Diego.
I didn't know if I'd ever wrestle again. And ironically, you know, who came to my rescue? Who? And she don't even know it.
I bet today. I bet if you asked her, she wouldn't even truly know it.
Cyndi Lauper. Really? Yeah.
How did she come to your rescue? Well, Cyndi Lauper did me a favor that ended up creating my entire broadcasting career. which was what? I went home.
I went home facing the end of my wrestling career. What do I do now? Am I going to go down to General Mills and sign on as a VP and put down past experience pro wrestler? You're not going to get no job.
job. And like all pro athletes in its own weird way, nobody ever thinks about it till it's over.
And then when it's over, you got to face it. And I had to face it prematurely.
I did come back in the ring, but I never came back to the extent of what I was doing. And I, and a friend of mine said, here's the Lauper story.
A friend of mine said, you should be a broadcaster. You can talk.
So I went down to channel 11, Tom Ryther. He just passed away a few months ago, my friend, Tom Ryther.
And I told Tom my situation. He was a head of sports down there.
So he introduced me to the head guy of the station and he gave me a producer cameraman who was Emmy award winning. And he said, okay, he said, go out and do something for me.
Right. Right.
Yeah. So Cindy, it was right Cyndi Lauper rock and wrestling crap, you know, when Cyndi was all involved with Wendy Richter and it was going big and all that.
MTV. Cyndi was doing a concert here in Minneapolis.
So, I called up David Wolfe, her manager, and I said, could I come down and interview Cy interview Cindy before the show? He said, of course.

And so I came down with my guy. We got together with Cindy and it was during that punk era.

So we decided to have Cindy dye my hair. So Cindy Lauper dyed my hair like six different colors

because that was in then. And that night at her concert, she brought me out in front of the crowd to show the crowd what we had did that afternoon.
And Vince got a hold of that tape. And it was like two days later, he calls me and he says, Jesse, do you think you could do color commentating? And I said, I know I could.
And he said, I got an idea. I said, what is it? He said, there's never been a villain on the mic before.
You're going to be the first one. Honestly, one of the great ideas.
And I wish we had them in actual sports. It'd be really fun if we had football, NBA.
We had somebody who was the heel announcer. I know they would never do it, but super fun.
Well, like I said, Cindy, I bet don't even know that the piece she did with me spurred McMahon to have the light bulb. And I give Vince credit.
He's PT Barnum of the generation, man.

The light bulb went out in Vince's head

and he thought there's never been a villain on the mic.

Let's put a villain on the mic.

And then I was fortunate

because who did they put me on with but Gorilla Monsoon.

Right.

One of the great teams.

Oh, I mean, Gino was a dream to work with. You know, you couldn't have asked for an easier, better tandem.
I don't think Gino and I ever had a misunderstanding, ever. I can't think of one.
Can we go back to your wrestling for a second? How did you ever hit your peak? Do you feel like there was more there? Do you hit your ceiling when we were at your best? Well, I think I was at my best right before I was going to go against Hogan. Right.
So how old are you at that point? You're like mid late thirties? Earlier thirties. Right.
Yeah. But I'm right at the, I'm right.
I'm right where I ought to be for it. Right.
And you could have been one of the big heels. I'm as big as I'm ever going to be.
And right there. And all of a sudden I'm flat on my back and in critical condition in San Diego, California, not knowing if I'm going to live or die.
And yet, weirdly, physically, it was probably better for you long-term. Well, I always view it as, and I tell people this when I give speeches and stuff, I always tell people, remember, out of adversity, great things can happen.
When you think adversity struck you and that everything has gone to shit, it's amazing how, look what I fell into then. I got more famous being on the mic than I probably ever would have been in the ring.
I mean, the thing you tapped into, which was so funny, wrestling was all about provoking reaction, either a happy reaction or an angry reaction, right? The more heat you can get, whether you're wrestling, a manager, whatever, that's where you want to be. They couldn't control me then.
What makes them think they can now? Well, you were the first announcer that made people mad. Exactly.
Do they have any idea the power I have now? Do they have any idea the guy that's going to be on that mic sat down face to face with Fidel Castro? Right. Do they have any idea that the guy on that mic had a dinner in his honor at Tiananmen Square in China.
Wow. So you've seen it all.
And I did all this after wrestling. What was your relationship with Vince the last 25 years? Because you came back, you got inducted into the Hall of Fame.
But other than that, you weren't really around. I had no relationship with him.
Really. Nothing.
So what was your reaction watching the last five years as it all kind of fell apart? Well, when I got inducted into the Hall of Fame, they asked me what I felt my biggest contribution was to pro wrestling. And I think I shocked everyone.
And I know I irritated Vince and Linda,

but I said, I, I believe my biggest contribution to wrestling was the fact that I was the first

wrestler in history who made Vince McMahon deal with a management manager or an agent.

Is that true?

Yes. Hogan never did.
Hogan dealt with Vince. It's him and Vince.
Hogan had a Hollywood agent. Yeah.
I was the first one that, and that resulted as, because of Predator. Right.
Which he didn't want you to do. He told me I couldn't do it.
So I quit. And I went and did Predator.
And while I was doing Predator, Arnold said, in September, I'm going to do the Running Man. There's a part you're perfect for.
Would you like to do it? And I said, hell yeah. And so I negotiated Running Man first.
Then I went back to Vince. And you know why that was? That gives you F you money in your pocket.
Where if he doesn't do what I'm satisfied with, I'd tell him flake off. I'm doing The Running Man in the fall.
I'm okay. I got another major movie with Arnold that's going to come up in the fall.
But the thing is, all that stuff was fantastic for the WWF at the time. Sure it was.
To have their announcer be in these high-profile movies with one of the biggest movie stars we had. That ain't what it's about with him.
With people like him and power people with money like that, it's control. It ain't got nothing to do with doing deals and doing the right thing

and promoting the correct way. It's all about control.
I was the horse that got out of the

corral. I wouldn't let him market me.
That's the final straw. I was going to do my own video game.

And Vince said, you can't do it.

I said, I own my rights.

I'm registered with the government.

Jesse, the body Ventura, I own the copyright with the government.

How can you tell me I can't do it?

And that was the final straw.

That's when he fired me.

And then I think he, because I never did get the video game. So I think some hanky pink went on there too.
Oh no. Well then when you sued him, I have no evidence.
When you sued him, it was because he, you felt like you were given the wrong impression of a contract you signed that signed away your rights to be basically in all the home video stuff. I never signed the contract.
Oh, that's what it was. Okay.
I never had a contract. So when you sued them, what were you suing them for? And the important point is that you won.
Well, I sued them over videotape royalties. And not that he had to pay me, but all the time that I was working for Vince, I would ask him, Vince, how come everything I do in Hollywood, when they replay it, I get royalties and everything I do for you, I get nothing.
I said, how does that work? It was just he and I, I'd be there with him alone. I said, tell me how that works.
How come I get royalties in Hollywood and I don't with you?

And he'd give me these phony excuses of why.

So what I did every time I, or at that time, my agent was Barry Bloom.

Every time I or Barry would negotiate with the WWF, we would bring up videotape royalties. And every time we were told the same thing, I don't pay videotape royalties.
Well, we won in court on what's called quantum merit. And what that means, Vince didn't have to pay royalties.

There's no law that says he does. But here's how I beat him.
When you sit down to negotiate, you expect the other side to be telling you the truth. We were constantly lied to by being told he didn't pay royalties.
Well, when we sued and got into discovery, we found out Hulk Hogan was getting royalties.

Mr. T was getting royalties.

Cyndi Lauper was getting royalties.

Everybody from mainstream Hollywood were all getting royalties. Right.
It was us wrestlers who weren't. Well, he lied during those negotiations and said, I don't pay royalties.
That's called quantum merit. That's where he broke the law.
He has to tell the truth during negotiations. You expect that.
He can't lie.

And the truth was, yes, he paid royalties. And when I got on the stand, my attorney asked me, Jesse Ventura, had you known other people were receiving royalties, would you have agreed to work for what you did.
I said, absolutely not. I said, if I found out other people were getting royalties, I would have demanded them too.
There you go. And the jury found for me.
This didn't probably like that, I'm guessing. Oh, he hated it.
He took it all the way to the Supreme Court, for cripes sake. Wow.
And then he calls me on the phone and screams into my ear when it's all over, that's my money. And I very calmly said to him, Vince, I said, the jury said it was my money.
The federal judge said it was my money. The United States Court of Appeals said it was my money.
And the Supreme Court says it's my money. I said, Vince, I think you're a minority opinion.
And that's that. And that was the end of it.
So 10 years after you left, give or take a year. Yeah.
He became a heel. He became heel owner after Bret Hart punched him and that led the Montreal Screwjob.
And it leads to this whole character arc where he's the owner of WWF at that point, but he's also bleeding in and it's hard to tell what's real, what's not real. Did you ever figure that out when you worked with him? What was real and what wasn't real with that guy? Well, I'll tell you this.
Vince was successful because as bad as he was, all the other promoters were worse. No, I'm serious.
No, I believe you. I'm laughing because Vince was like the savior.
Yeah. I knew when I went to Vince that final time, I was going to quit the business.
This was it. I'm going to go try.
I'm going to do this last hurrah with Vince. If it fails, I'm done.
If it succeeds, we'll take it to wherever it goes. And fortunately we succeeded.
I was in pretty much,

I knew I was going to do it before.

Well,

before I did it because, uh,

uh,

there's another story behind that,

but I won't go into it today,

but,

uh,

uh,

it's a long one,

but,

uh,

uh,

Vince actually did me a great favor along the way.

And that's why I had loyalty to him.

Okay.

And I'll just leave it at that. A favor in the early 80s, mid-80s, or late 80s? Early 80s to mid-80s.
When the jump happened. Right.
Well, I'll tell you the final straw of why I jumped from the AWA to Vince. Want to hear that? Yeah.
I was with Saido then, Mr. Torture.
Yeah. And we were, of course, the Far East-West connection.
And me and Torch were wrestling tag team then in the AWA, and Vince was just starting make his big move and they ran La Crosse, Wisconsin. And we went down there and we did an angle for a cage match, right? And so three weeks later, we came, we got the payoff.
It was okay. Three weeks later, we came back to La Crosse, me and Saido for the cage match and verne and greg were on their yearly aspen vacation the gagne's yeah where they go up to aspen and ski and have fun uh that's what they were doing then when we had the rematch in lacrosse and it was in the cage and the house jumped, I think, 20 to $25,000, right, in business.
And I got my paycheck and I got less money. And this was at a time when Hogan had just jumped.
And I got paid, the house went up and I got paid less and Ganyas were on their vacation. Well, I knew who was paying for the vacation.
We were. And so I came up to Wally Carbo and I said, Wally, what the hell is this? I said, the house jumps 25,000 bucks and I get less money? I said, well, the next time I hope nobody's there, I'll get more money.

I said, what kind of bullshit is this?

Right.

And this is at a time he should have been taking care of his wrestlers, not cheating them.

So that was that.

And that's what happened. And look, and that was the final straw for me.
I said, I'll jump in defense. Best guy you ever wrestled against.
Most impressed you were by another wrestler. Who was it? Say that again.
All right. You wrestled a bunch of guys.
Yeah. From 75 to 86.
Who is the best one? Who is the best in-ring guy you wrestled? I don't know who the best was, but the guy I liked to wrestle and work with the most was Tito Santana. Really? Why? Because Tito and I go back to the AWA, and we were on the same wavelength he understood my style and he adapted completely to me and he had total confidence that when it was his time I would always give it to him and I never had a bad match ever with Tito Santana.
I would say right with him would be Jimmy Snuka. My first favorite.
Jimmy Snuka, Tito Santana. Was Snuka doing the stuff in Portland? Was he doing the jump off the top rope, all that stuff, even in the mid-70s? He was doing everything.
And everyone was saying, Jimmy, why are you wasting it here? Get to New York. Right.
You need a bigger audience. There had to been 10 to 15 people that told Jimmy Snuka to get to New York.
And I, and I was one of them because I wanted him there because I knew I wouldn't be far behind. And if he wasn't a villain out there, I knew I'd get to work with him.
Right. What was the most memorable main event that you did a broadcast for? Because I have a couple in my head.
What's the most memorable match I ever did was Macho and Steamboat. That's the greatest match in WrestleMania 3.
What about the twin Hebners? You did that one, right? Probably. I think so.
When Hogan lost the title because the twin referee came out? Oh, yeah. I vaguely remember it now.
That was a good one. Yeah, the Hebner brothers.
That was a good one. See, you're reminding me of this stuff.
I don't have memory of a lot of it yeah you're in the ground and i and i'll tell you why when hogan got me bumped out of wcw that was it it's just i stopped watching i didn't pay attention i i vaguely only remember the the against Stone Cold. I know that was huge, but I wasn't watching it.
It had nothing to do with me. And I moved on.
Put it this way. I moved on with my life.
You moved on, moved forward. I wasn't going to let wrestling define me.
So, Running Man versus Predator, what movie gets mentioned more to you over the last 35 years? Predator more. Okay.
Predator. What is the number one thing that you get asked about it? It's my film.
No. Oh films have lines that define them.
And if you go to Predator, my line is the defining line of the movie. I ain't got time to bleed.
I can't argue with that. Okay.
Just as in Terminator, Arnold's I'll be back.

So have you told Arnold this? Hey, just FYI, I had the best line of Predator. No.
Why would I do that? Because you could. That's all up to, that's all, there's no one that can say it was or wasn't.
That's all up to the discretion of anybody. I'm just saying 20th century fox printed it on a t-shirt and and uh you know i i i feel great because every film usually has one line that defines it yeah and i had a supporting role in fact the biggest complaint that i receive on predator is that I died too soon.
Well, that's my biggest complaint. But see, then I have to inform you it had to be that way.
Why? Why? You could have made it 15 more minutes. No.
No. It had to be that way.
You know why? Why? I was the toughest guy.

And you noticed I was the only one that had a funeral.

Right?

All right.

Yeah.

Okay.

And here's the biggest thing.

When I died is when the platoon went to shit. The stakes got higher.
Blaine was dead. Blaine doesn't die.
Blaine doesn't die. This guy is the closest thing to Superman.
He's been through all these wars, all these incursions, walked out of every one of them. How can Blaine be dead? What could kill Blaine? That's why I had to die.
Remember when Sonny Landon turns and says, we're all going to die? Because why? Blaine was dead. And you were there for the Van Damme stuff, Van Damme.
The Van Damme playing the Pred Predator for a couple minutes, right? And then he got fired. Yeah.
I was there when John came down. So when he became a star later, were you like, that guy? No, not at all.
Jean-Claude had talent. Jean-Claude, he was living out of his trunk at the time when I met him.
And that was the first job he ever got. And I think he didn't understand that he thought he was going to be running through the jungle and all the girls were going to see his handsome, pretty face.
And I don't, and I think when he got down there, he realized nobody was going to see his pretty face, right? He was going to be inside of some type of suit. And they hired him because they thought he'd be agile with his karate stuff.
Well, he wasn't. Not in that suit.
No. And they fired him.
And they got Kevin Peter Hall, a seven foot one black man. And Kevin filled out the suit a lot better.
How much? I don't know. I never saw The Predator.
Ever. What do you mean? Until a screening in Chicago.
Wow. And what's good about that, I'm not supposed to see it.
It's invisible, isn't it? Well, when you watch it now, the special effects, because we didn't have in the 80s, it was tough. It was invisible.
That's why I couldn't see it in the first place. I only saw it for the first time at a screening in Chicago.
We had to pretend it was killing us. We couldn't see it.
I never saw what it was going to look like. You were just acting.
Yes. I never saw the Predator until they created it long after we were done shooting.
How much input did you have over Captain Freedom's workout video in Running Man? In Running Man? You had a whole workout video in that. Complete Freedom.
Like my name. Do you want to hear the backstory? Yeah.
Oh, it's a great one. Running Man.
So I'm the retired stalker who now has this physical fitness show on TV, right? Yeah. That's what I do now, as well as color commentate the running man game.

Right. And so I have my workout thing in the day.
So what occurred was this,

when they needed to do that, she wasn't famous yet for singing. That was due to happen in like

a year or two. But they sent me over to this nice little beautiful young woman by the name of Paula

I'm not sure. that was due to happen in like a year or two but they sent me over to this nice little beautiful young woman by the name of paula abdul and they sent me over to her uh dance studio because paula's one of the at the time one of the top choreographers in hollywood and I'll never, she knew what she had to do.
I knew

basically what I was there for. And I remember Paula Abdul, she got famous singing a couple years later, but she came up to me that day and it was hilarious.
I'm 260 pounds, this hulking big monster and she's this this bitsy little tiny girl, athletic as hell, can do all this, got these skinny girls that can do all this dancing in Hollywood. And she looks at me and she goes, looks at me and smiles.
And she says, what can you do? What was the answer? And I looked at her and at the time at home, I had started taking aerobics and I had done aerobics. I challenged myself.
I had gotten up to level three, an hour and a half with David Gray, the crystal light national Aerobics Champion. He was my instructor in Minneapolis, the Crystal Light National Aerobics Champion.
So I looked at Paula Abdul. I said, well, I said, for the last few months, I'm getting ready for this.
I've been doing aerobics. She looked at me a big smile.
She says, great. She goes, you do aerobics.
We'll dance around you. I went, okay.
And that's what we did. I went out and went through aerobic routines and Paula choreographed all the girls to dance around my routines and make it work.

And there you have Captain Freedom's workout.

So you worked with Hogan and Schwarzenegger during this mid-80s testosterone,

very patriotic time in America.

And Stallone.

So when did you work with Stallone?

Demoman.

Yeah, that was 90s, though.

I was thinking more 80s.

Well, okay, that was late 90s.

And they also cut their fight scene completely.

Well, I was going to say,

because you couldn't have worked with Stallone in the 80s

because you were so much bigger than him.

I don't know how they would have done that. I was bigger than him in the 90s.
That's the thing. I forgot.
I don't have to lean into Mike. No, but I mean, it is funny because that era of a lot of muscles.
Predator is the peak of it because Predator just has entire bicep scenes. It's just close up of oiled biceps, just where we were in 1987.
Well, the great thing about Arnold is he's not insecure. Yeah.
When you've won Mr. Olympia seven times, come on.
That's the best built man in the world. Yeah.
And he won it seven times. Arnold doesn't have insecurities.
Arnold doesn't care that I'm two or three inches taller than him. That doesn't bother him.
Yeah. You're playing pranks on the set with him.
There's good YouTube stuff about you playing pranks with that, trying to convince people you had bigger biceps than him, all that stuff. Oh, I think that really got blown out of proportion.
We did more. I don't know.
The thing about doing a Schwarzenegger film is you're going to have fun. That's the fun part about it.
Arnold never takes himself too seriously only when he has to. you was also in the trailer with him sitting right there when these guys came up to him.
We weren't even finished doing Predator. Yeah.
And these guys were approaching him about the sequel, Predator 2. Which they did without him.
Wait, I won't say the money because it's no one's business.

Yeah.

But I sat right there and they offered Arnold, and this was 1985, 86.

They offered him so much money to do Predator 2, and he turned them down flat.

When they left, I looked at him and I said, Arnold, it's just him and I. I said, how in the hell do you turn down? And I said, the figure.
Arnold looked at me and smiled. You know what he said to me? Jesse, the time is not right.
And he was right. Yeah.
The Predator sequel was a bomb. People know.
Look at what he did on Terminator. He made them wait seven years.
He made the public want the sequel. Smart.
I mean, he constructed his career the best. If you come out with a sequel immediately after the film, everybody knows it's just a money ripoff.
That's true. They're capitalizing on the...
Arnold wouldn't fall victim to that. The money he turned down, you would have been astounded.
And he turned them. I won't say, cause it's no one's

business. But, uh, in fact, I raised, I said, Hey, Blaine will do bring Blaine's twin brother.
He'll do it for half. I said, you can resurrect me.
Oh my God. There he is.
Blaine's twin brother. There he is.
He'll do it for half. He's fighting in Korea.
When Arnold ran in California, did he talk to you about it? Because you had already been through it in Minnesota. No.
Arnold and I never discussed politics once. During my campaign or during his.
He lives in California. I live in Minnesota.
Why am I going to campaign for him in California?

What the hell is he going to say in Minnesota?

Well, I don't think he had to campaign,

but he could ask you for advice about being a non-politician.

Who's a celebrity trying to run for stuff.

He didn't need it.

And neither did I.

We both won, didn't we?

So we must've did it right.

Didn't we?

And then Trump does it in 2016. Well, steal some of your playbook.
He took all of it. He's still riding it and they won't admit it.
They won't. He took all of it.
Took my playbook. I didn't raise money.
I held rallies. You know how much money I raised to become governor? Wasn't it like less than a million bucks?

300,000.

Yeah.

That's all I raised.

If I ran for, I'll tell you what, I could have beat either one.

I could have won the presidency if I had, if Mark Cuban would have backed me financially,

like, who do you call it back?

Trump.

I'd have beat both of them if I don't want to do.

What year?

2016? Right now. And Trump knows it.
You want to know why he knows it? He's in the pro wrestling hall of fame. He knows damn well.
I'm the greatest talker there's ever been in wrestling. He knows damn well.
He couldn't hold a candle to me. If I had a debate with him, the best thing he could do would be sit in a chair,

keep his mouth shut, and let me talk. Yeah, physically, he wouldn't be able to tibbate you.
Oh, not a bit. Donald Trump knows deep in his heart, and Jesse Ventura's never

lost an election. I would have been the biggest threat he'd ever had out there because I'd have

beat him. Well, he wrote a book.
And you know why else I'd have beat him? I ain't a criminal. He wrote a book in 2000 and he was talking about how you got elected governor in Minnesota and he said it's because he talks straight.
Non-politicians like Ventura are the wave of the future. He wrote that in 2000.
He wasn't wrong on that one. Yeah.
Yes, he was though, in a way, because he didn't talk straight. Well, I'm just saying non-politicians.
He took it beyond that. He took it to wrestling, lied about everything.
Wow. And he also learned some stuff from Vince too.
No, no. And I mean, lied about everything.
He just say whatever he wanted to say. I'll be interested now in the, and I'll leave it at this.
Let's watch in the next four years, how much of that stuff gets implemented. You liked him in 2015 when he was running, you were for it.
No, I wasn't necessarily. I don't support Democrats or Republicans.
He joined the Republican Party and he even did worse. He joined the ultra conservative evangelical right.
Pretty hard for an agnostic atheist to support that. Why didn't you run again after 03? Multiple reasons.
Personal. More to do in life.
I could have won easily. I remember when I had the highest approval ratings in Minnesota history at 73%, 72%.
And I remember right before re-election was due to happen, I had fallen to 49%. And the media immediately challenged me and said, oh my God, for the first time, you're under 50%.
I looked at the media and I said, are you guys really that stupid? I said, you must consider something.

It's a three-person race. If I'm at 49%, that means I'm up 12.
I won with 37. So if I'm now at 49, I'm up 12.
It's a landslide. People forget in a

three-person race, the dynamics

change. You were

not a huge fan of the media when you were

governor.

Mainly because they attacked my children.

They couldn't attack

nothing else, so they had to go after

my son. They had to go after my kids.

Well, that sounded like that was a big

reason why you didn't want to do it again.

One of the reasons.

Yeah.

The other was money.

You know how much I was being governor for?

Let's get it on the board.

Yeah.

All right.

When I was governor, I got paid $120,000 a year.

You know how much the football coach at the University of Minnesota makes?

Four to five million a year.

Right.

Thank you. year.
You know how much the football coach at the University of Minnesota makes? Four to five million a year. So I guess coaching football has more responsibility than being governor.
I can only assume that by how our society pays. The governor makes, now he makes 150, But at my time, was 120 and the football coach makes 4 million, 5 million.
Okay. Out of the 120,000, I had to pay taxes.
Yeah. Right.
Out of the 120,000, I also had to pay for my car that drove me around. They deduct the mileage to and from the Capitol.
They only let you have it during the workday. So I said to them, okay, I'll drive my private car to the Capitol.
Then I'll take the governor's car so I don't get charged money. Oh, public safety come in and said, you can't do that.
Why? We need you in the governor's car because it's got the weapons and the safety and the radios. So it's a catch-22.
They stick, make you use the car and then charge you for it. It comes out of your paycheck.
It don't end there. You know what else I had to pay for? Every meal that me and my family ate at the governor's residence is deducted out of my pay.

So you were like writing books when you were in office.

You were doing a bunch of different things

to try to make more money.

Well, I was being governor of Minnesota in the end,

I'd say for 40 grand a year. Yeah.
There you go. And I'm in charge of a $16 billion budget.
What do you think I'd be making if I was the CEO in the private sector of a $16 billion company?

If I was the CEO, 120 a year.

Well, it sounds like you should have been the football coach.

Yeah, it pays a lot better.

I might even win more.

But anyway, no, that was a reason I didn't run again.

Being honest, the money.

Oh, I guess I could have made more money if I wanted to become corrupt. No, that was a reason I didn't run again, being honest, the money.

Oh, I guess I could have made more money if I wanted to become corrupt.

You know, if I'd have wanted to sell my soul to rock and roll and take some payola, I suppose there was money to be made.

Jesse was just too naive, and Jesse's just too honest.

I don't do that.

That's called public service.

I did 14 years of it.

Six in the Navy, four as a governor, and four as a mayor.

Looking back, what was the most fair criticism of you as a politician?

Probably that I speak first before I think.

That I'll react and say something that I'll, then they'll, I'll have to, uh, make amends for it because you're in the political arena. That's what's wonderful now about coming back to wrestling.
Yeah. You don't have to worry about that.
Right. Handcuffs are off.
I can say anything I want about anyone. Sounds like you're excited about this.
I am. I'm very excited about it.
I mean, I, well, I don't discuss finances, but it's acceptable. And I'll be doing four a year.
Yeah. Well, the bigger thing is that you're, you're back, which always felt stupid that you weren't back.
I'm back. And, and, and, and for me, it's, it's, it's concluding a career that probably never should have finished.
Right. And maybe now there'll be closure.
Yeah. Jesse can broadcast till he dies and then they can have my WWE funeral.
Well, I said, you don't know. I said, you said you don't like looking back, but when I think of the eighties as wrestling blows up, I mean, you're, you're right at the center of all of it.
Hogan's leading the way. And there's probably like five, six, seven, eight other guys right behind or help them push it up.
And you were one of those people. Sure.
And I, especially like the TV stuff was so good. Wrestling changed then from becoming a, a live spectator sport, drawing the money.
Territorial life. The big money then became television.
Like it is in all sports. I remember when I broadcast football for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
I did their two years of Buccaneer football down in Tampa. And I remember that Hugh Culverhouse paid off.
He was the owner of the Bucs. He paid all his bills, including all the players, everything with his TV contract.
So that people in the seats, that was all his profit. All the people that sold out Tampa Stadium every week to see the Bucks play, that was pure huge money.
Because the TV contract paid for all the rest. So as we head into 2025, you're in closure with WWE.
You're going to be back on TV a little bit. Before we go, how are you feeling about politics in the mid-2020s? Because you never really liked the two-party system and you're a huge critic of it.
That was really one of your pieces of your platform. Where are we now as we head into the mid-2020s? We're still part of the two-party dictatorship.
I like to steal that term from my friend, Ralph Nader. Ralph used that, the two-party dictatorship, because that's what it is.
It's a two-party dictatorship. The only problem, you want to know where I'm at? It's simple.
It's real simple. I took an oath over 50 years ago, and I took this oath before I married my wife.
And this summer, my wife and I are going to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary. Wow.
Congrats. Well, I'd like to proudly say, name me any other couple in wrestling who can now say they're going to celebrate their 50th wedding anniversary.
Well, but I took this oath before I took an oath to her. And I honor my oaths, obviously, to her for 50 years now.
And the oath I took before that was the oath to the Constitution of the United States of America. I took an oath to that Constitution.
And unfortunately, January 6th, in my opinion, and I don't give a shit what anyone else says, I watched it, our Constitution was attacked and violated. And there was an attempted coup d'etat.
And the people that did it, in my opinion, committed treason. And they should have been convicted for their treasonous activity of overrunning our Capitol and carrying a Confederate flag through my Capitol of the United States of America.
They carried a Confederate flag, the Republicans, and they have not apologized for it, not one of them, and they still today have not apologized for it. And what did they do? They didn't get convicted for it, so they rallied up and they now have taken the power and the control.
So as far as I'm concerned, this country doesn't have a constitution anymore because the people in charge don't care about a constitution. They violated it already, and they'll violate it again as soon as they need to.
It's a tough way to end the convo, but I guess we're going to end it there. Well, I'm not saying you're wrong.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. I didn't say you're wrong.
No, I'm just saying that. And people may say I've sure got a narrow.
Yeah, I do. Because I took an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America, and I failed.
And I don't like to fail. And let's

remember something. I believe it was Ben Franklin said to us, we've given you a republic if you can keep it.
Well, I believe we lost it this year. Jesse Ventura, it was great to finally have you on the pod.
Congrats on

returning to the WWE

December 14th

Saturday nights. Ventura, it was great to finally have you on the pod.
Congrats on returning to the WWE, December 14th, Saturday night's main event. You're back.
Well, what you got today is just a sample. I can't wait.
Great to see you. I'm glad you're doing well.
Take care. All right, that's it for the podcast.
Thanks to Jesse Ventura. Thanks to Joe House.
Thanks to Steve Cerruti and Kyle Creighton.

Thanks to everybody who came to the live show in Denver.

I will be back on Sunday.

You can join me and the cuz on Sunday night

on my YouTube feed, the Bill Simmons channel.

Maybe I'll make an appearance

on the Winger Sunday pregame show on YouTube TV as well.

Who knows?

Depends what kind of mood I'm in.

Enjoy the weekend. I willgame show on YouTube TV as well.
Who knows? Prince will kind of mood. I'm in.
Enjoy the weekend.

I will see you on Sunday night.

I don't. On the wayside On the blue side Never on saying

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