A 2024 NBA Redraft, Plus 2020s Sliding Doors With Ryen Russillo

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I have new rewatchables coming up because it is still sports movie month.

Speaker 1 So we did blue chips. It was me and Van Lathan and Chris Ryan.
And the reason we did it was because we did it like in 2017. We didn't even have the categories yet.
So we decided March Madness.

Speaker 1 Let's just go. Let's bring this baby back.
So much fun to talk about. You can watch that as a video podcast on Spotify.

Speaker 1 You can watch it on the Ringer Movies YouTube channel as well, where we also put up a reaction on the Happy Gilmore 2 trailer.

Speaker 1 that I actually pitched them my idea for the sports movie sequel I want to see the most and it involves basketball. So you can go check that out on our YouTube channel.
The Prestige TV podcast.

Speaker 1 We're still covering White Lotus episode six,

Speaker 1 Sunday night on HBO. Right after it ends, you can go there and you can listen to me and Mallory and Joanna breakdown episode six, which was fantastic.

Speaker 1 I am going to Boston in a couple of days because we're doing a live rewatchables at House of Blue. We were doing Goodwill Hunting for everybody coming to that

Speaker 1 live show. We did Goodwill Hunting, I think in the first two years of the pod, but way more categories.
Plus, we got Rascilla this time, perfect movie to do in Boston.

Speaker 1 And then we're gonna have a Coolidge Corner film festival Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Check out the ringer.com/slash events.

Speaker 1 There's still some tickets left, I think, for some of the theater, from some of the movie stuff.

Speaker 1 Me and Sean and Chris are gonna be there, probably talking after a couple of the movies. So,

Speaker 1 so there you go. Coolidge Corner all weekend.
I don't think there's gonna be a live show with me and Rosillo on Sunday night in Boston.

Speaker 1 I think we're just going to do the pod regularly.

Speaker 1 We'll see, though. You never know.
Could there be a last-second live show? Maybe.

Speaker 1 Anyway, we're also brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, where they have these player performance doubles, two-leg parlays made for you specifically. Take an NBA player prop.

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Speaker 1 this Tuesday. So coming up, the original plan for this podcast was we're going to do two-thirds of a podcast and then

Speaker 1 put the topper after OKC Clippers tonight. So what happened? We started taping at 10.45 a.m.
Pacific time, and we just kept going for two hours. And we just had a full podcast.

Speaker 1 So, we're just going to put it up. So, I hope nothing absolutely insane happens to OKC and the Clippers in that game tonight that we regret not talking about, but this is how we landed.

Speaker 1 It's a very good podcast. It's all coming up next for Star Friends from Pro Chip.

Speaker 1 All right, we staggered this podcast. So this part of the pod, we are taping at 11 a.m.
PT. We want to do some 2020 sliding doors.

Speaker 1 I also wanted to tell you about the Bulls Lakers game I went to last night. Did you happen to see any minutes of that game? Yeah, I watched the entire second half.
So

Speaker 1 the Bulls, first of all, are turning into a very belatedly fun end of the season league pass team because they kind of know who they are and they play really fast and they have two good guards that attack, attack, attack.

Speaker 1 And you could tell pretty early this wasn't going to be the Lakers night with the way how hard the Bulls were playing and how much they were attacking the rim. They're outside threes.

Speaker 1 It did make me wonder if there was a little bit of a blueprint in there to beat this Lakers team. with

Speaker 1 go, go, go, keep pushing, keep pushing, keep attacking. They don't really have a rim protector.
They don't really want to run up and down. They want to slow things down.

Speaker 1 And I was trying to think of anyone else in the West that could basically replicate that. And it's obviously OKC.

Speaker 1 And it made me last night, and I don't know if it's overreaction or not, but last night made me really think: like,

Speaker 1 I think they would be in a heap of trouble in an OKC series with the athletes and the speed. And I'm not positive they can match it.
A couple things. The Bulls were incredible last night, all right?

Speaker 1 And the Lakers' defense is terrible, but it's the first back, our first game back with LeBron. Those games when he was out, you know, their net rating was negative.
Their offense was 21st.

Speaker 1 Their defense was 19th. They still went three and four, I believe, is the record.
But that was like an all-time game. I mean, Bezellus is so much fun.
That baseline move he had on Luca

Speaker 1 was awesome. I mean, Giddy was close to a quadruple double, the first one since David Robinson.
They kept him in near the end.

Speaker 1 We were driving home, and they were like, they're keeping Giddy in in case he can get two more steals. It's like, whoa, he would, Giddy was incredible.
And by the way, let's take a victory lap.

Speaker 1 We were like the only two people in America who liked that trade for the Bulls last summer. So I'm victory lapping that.

Speaker 1 And by the way, I have the people scouting tracks for the Scoot victory lap near the end of the season. And Improbable, I had given up.
but we both never sold our stock.

Speaker 1 And now I'm ready to run around the track and wave to our fans. I'm not ready for that one yet because I think we liked him so much.
It was on the path to start him.

Speaker 1 But it's pretty clear he's not going to be the worst player that plays minutes in the NBA and he might stick around for a little while. That sounds like a victory left for both of us anyway.

Speaker 1 Man, watching the Lakers broadcast is really funny because you would have thought the Bulls like with a two-seat in the East.

Speaker 1 When Patrick Williams comes off a curl on the right side and hit that three of all people, you're like, okay, I mean, Chicago is just rolling. So back to your blueprint thing.
You might be right.

Speaker 1 You might be right. I think when the Lakers went, what, 18 and three, and their defense was like a top three or four defense in the NBA, I was like, are they really this good? Yeah.

Speaker 1 And now that they're leaking a bit defensively, LeBron in and out of it, you know, like now that he's back, let's judge them based on this.

Speaker 1 I always find this time of year, these last 10 to 12 games, this closing stretch of the season, I don't want to say all of it is irrelevant, but I really feel like this is the time of the year where you can get tricked and it can be really misleading.

Speaker 1 And there can be just effort nights.

Speaker 1 You know, whether there was that San Antonio Knicks game a couple of nights ago where Mama went insane and the Knicks were trying, like, you kept watching that game being like, all right, enough of this.

Speaker 1 Like, the Knicks are going to put together a run, and then they're going to figure it out.

Speaker 1 You have Cleveland, who's lost four in a row, which I don't know if we'll get to that with some of the Mitchell stuff. So we will.

Speaker 1 Continue on the blueprint because, I mean, is OKC the blueprint to the Lakers or are they just a lot better than the Lakers? Well, that's the thing.

Speaker 1 But I do think there's people in the NBA, and I've certainly considered the case that if you're going to beat OKC, it would have to be with a pretty weird, different type of team that has a lot of, you know, guys who have been in big situations and then a big physical hard team to play with multiple scoring options would be the case for LA against OKC.

Speaker 1 OKC hasn't been there. LA is not going to be afraid to be on the road.

Speaker 1 What I saw last night, you can really use the defaults of

Speaker 1 Luca and 40-year-old LeBron against them. And LeBron actually was trying harder than Luca, and he was trying to do chase down blocks.

Speaker 1 Luca, he can get carried away with the refs.

Speaker 1 I thought LeBron great last night, physically. He looked fast.
There was that stretch before the two threes that made it a 23-point game when JJ just was like, all right, enough of this.

Speaker 1 There was a stretch where LeBron was actually, like, I was watching for that to be like, if he's just going to, hey, I'm going to get some cardio in.

Speaker 1 There was a stretch where you could tell on that one drive before it got to 23 points. It's like, okay, he still thinks they have a chance in this thing.
No question. I thought he looked great.

Speaker 1 And was playing hard.

Speaker 1 But yeah, I think if you keep pushing, keep pushing, keep pushing, they're going to start to bend a little bit because they don't want to play that way.

Speaker 1 Um, and the other thing they did was they pressured Luca, which I don't understand why teams don't do this against the Lakers. I don't understand why they don't do it against Boston with Tatum.

Speaker 1 Anybody that has a non-point guard dribbling the ball up, I don't understand why it's not 80 feet of pressure. Uh, Giddy was in, was in and around Luca all night.

Speaker 1 Luca was just getting more and more pissed. Finally, he got a technical.
He must have shoved him three or four times.

Speaker 1 They were talking shit during the free throws, and that's another way to get at this Lakers team:

Speaker 1 you can really

Speaker 1 fuck with luca

Speaker 1 he takes everything personally you can you could just be like hey like think about okc like hey lou dort just with luca this whole series just just stand around him stand next to him in timeouts luca's like a big can i have my personal space guy uh and giddy was just not having it so i i thought uh you know look they played out of their minds and as you said they were making crazy threes um the bezelous thing is is a real wrinkle I don't think that's an overreaction thing.

Speaker 1 But anyway, I was just thinking, like, blueprint-wise, athletes-wise,

Speaker 1 OKC, that's the game they're going to watch. That's the game they're going to show their guys.

Speaker 1 Like, watch this, watch what speed and athleticism and pace can potentially do if we meet this Lakers team.

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Speaker 1 I wish we could use it for the NBA draft in the best possible way because that's what we're about to talk about. Workday, moving business forward forever.
All right, so this is a no prep segment.

Speaker 1 I did not do prep for it either. I just thought of it last night watching Bozellus, who I really, really, really like.
And I was just like, instant right now, blink test, redraft.

Speaker 1 Let's do a top eight. No, no prep whatsoever.
Just top eight eight gut feeling.

Speaker 1 My one would still be Castle.

Speaker 1 Would your one still be Castle, or is there anyone in this draft you like more than him?

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 I'm not ready to put Castle one,

Speaker 1 even though I know he's rookie of the year, and there's just a toughness and maturity to his game that feels like a really good bet as far as the floor.

Speaker 1 But I like what I've seen from Rissache, so I still think he's number one. Interesting.
Okay. Would it make the case for Rissache? Because he

Speaker 1 stumbled a little and now it's coming back a lot, I think. Yeah, which I think is to be expected.

Speaker 1 There are just nights where I see him in his activity.

Speaker 1 I think what you always worry about with somebody who's just still an unknown is like, is he going to be overwhelmed by all this stuff, you know, physically? Is he just going to sit in the corner?

Speaker 1 Because, I mean, look, even when you did the draft tape of him, there was plenty of games. You're like, is this guy just going to sit in the corner? Like, what the hell's going on here?

Speaker 1 And it's not like I was watching 20 full games of him before the draft, but it was pretty clear early on that his comfort level was a little bit higher despite his physical disadvantages.

Speaker 1 And I just think at that size and that kind of shot making,

Speaker 1 that's the reason why that guy goes number one. And that's why even through a rookie season, there'd still be a lot of teams that'd be like, give me the ceiling of that guy.

Speaker 1 not just his spot up ability, but off the dribble at that size.

Speaker 1 And yeah, I mean, it's overused, but he appears to get it in a way that you hope when you're drafting somebody somebody this high, like, okay, like, you know, there's certain guys that come in and immediately, you know, like, uh-oh.

Speaker 1 And I don't have any of those concerns when I watch him. So I don't like, even if Castle would probably be the popular pick and maybe everybody's right.

Speaker 1 Do you understand the ceiling part of it for his size and shooting? Yeah. That Castle doesn't have.
Right.

Speaker 1 I had him in the blink test, no prep. He was number two to me.
And I just like Castle a little more because I can see him as a top three guy on a contender down the road. Reese,

Speaker 1 probably. The hoops IQ is there.
I like that he's always moving. He's not like, I don't know what I'm doing.
I'm just going to stand over here. Like he moves.

Speaker 1 If there's, if they'll get it, if they get a rebound, he'll take off. Like he'll try to get, he'll think like,

Speaker 1 oh, maybe if I bust my ass on this, I'll get the ball and I'll be able to get a dunk.

Speaker 1 I don't think Trey, I think Trey is both fun to play with sometimes and then really not fun to play with other times, but he seems like he's getting better.

Speaker 1 So I would have him, I would have him second. And I think that's a pretty good pick for them.

Speaker 1 Where this gets interesting is the third pick, because I think those are clearly one, two. I would have Castle first.
You'd have Reese Shea first, but I think that's the one, two.

Speaker 1 But the third, from what you've seen, who would you take?

Speaker 1 Whoa.

Speaker 1 I think this is where it gets hard. Well, you were probably driving home thinking Bezelis last night.
Am I right?

Speaker 1 But I also saw Saar a week ago and I'm like, Jesus Christ, this guy's Sergeabaco with three-point range. Like,

Speaker 1 this looks great. But

Speaker 1 I look, I've watched Bezalis on TV a few times, like, really like watch. I actually like watching the Bulls, full confession.

Speaker 1 Uh, I was excited to see him in person last night, and of course, just randomly saw the best game he could possibly have. I don't really know what he's missing from that position because he can shoot.

Speaker 1 I like his stroke, he goes to the basket, he's really athletic, and there's a little bit of a fuck you to him that I really saw for four quarters last night. Like he's not afraid.
He's

Speaker 1 a little feisty.

Speaker 1 And I just could clearly see, I see what he is for the next 10 years. And I think they nailed that pick.
So for me, it's either SAR or him for that third spot. And I'd probably lean toward Bezelus.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I guess the SAR part of it is he's just getting so many more opportunities because they don't care.

Speaker 1 But through the last four months, he shot it really well from three, and he takes those threes.

Speaker 1 I do worry a little bit at times when I've watched the Wizards where if it's a close game, you know, I don't know that they really care.

Speaker 1 And I'm like, hey, Saar is going to get into his bag and pull up. Right.
But he also might think, like, if I don't shoot it, Jordan Poole's just going to shoot it. So I might as well do this.

Speaker 1 So, you know, I think always the fear is whenever you're drafting kind of these unknowns, and even Risa Shea, when we were doing the draft, I was like, this is just crazy when you think about this draft.

Speaker 1 Like, somebody like this is going number one overall.

Speaker 1 But then it was, you know, right back to the argument of Saar or Reed Shepard, who can't even get minutes with Houston right now, who I think if Reed were playing somewhere that didn't care,

Speaker 1 we would probably still be leaning Shepard third.

Speaker 1 Right. If he was like the Wizards point guard instead of Jordan Poole.
Yeah. Yeah.
Or, you know, whatever team.

Speaker 1 Like Bosellis is just not going to have, Bosellis is just not going to have the opportunities that Saar has.

Speaker 1 And Saar's rebounding, three-point shooting, like I've talked about, he's really only had one bad month with all of this.

Speaker 1 You know, it wasn't a great start, but you could say the same thing for Reese. I mean, Resach shot up really, really well now the entire second half of the season.
So I'll still go Saar third because

Speaker 1 just at that size and that shooting and how much I personally think that you're a completely different team when you have a five-out center, when you have somebody that can stretch the floor, you know, a couple years down the road, projecting what you can do in the playoffs, I think it just opens a lot of stuff up.

Speaker 1 Like as much as we all like what the Clippers have done that win against the Cavs, like I kind of get back to as great as Zoo is and we all appreciate him.

Speaker 1 Does it kind of limit your looks when you don't have a guy that can stretch at the five? And Saar is that is the hope is that they drafted somebody like that that can play defense.

Speaker 1 He runs really well. I mean, he runs the floor all night long.
And I think that was, that's why that guy went too, even if it was really choppy watching him. He took the shots, which I guess is good.

Speaker 1 But now he's hitting them enough to justify like four to five attempts a game.

Speaker 1 You know, I trust Joe House on hoops if he's actually watching as much as anyone in my life.

Speaker 1 He's been really good. I want to back you up on that.
Over the years, Tex Thread, when he has a very specific wizard's observation, it's usually always on. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 And this has been the case since the late 80s. And I think he was more afraid of the bust potential with Saar than anybody.
And he's been saying all year, like, he likes him.

Speaker 1 Doesn't isn't positive what he is ultimately, but there's definitely some Mabaka stuff in there. And he's not afraid to shoot.
And his stroke's pretty good, and you can kind of see what he is.

Speaker 1 Like, he was drafted as a stretch five. If they were lucky enough to get flag in the draft, you put him, like, Sarah would be the ideal guy to put flag next to, I would say,

Speaker 1 with those two together. So, it feels like they have something.
All right, so you'd go SAR 3, Bozellus 4, and I would go Bozellus 3, SAR 4. Sounds like.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that's what it sounds like. I mean, at some point here, we have to mention Khalil Wearer.

Speaker 1 Well, I thought the guy we haven't mentioned yet is McCain, who got hurt and was looking like the most ready rookie and is only, I don't even know if he's 20 yet.

Speaker 1 But I think from what we saw from McCain before he got hurt,

Speaker 1 I might take him above Reed

Speaker 1 because I know Reed's not playing and I know it's not his fault and I know it's probably not a great situation for him. But I also think it's weird that he's not playing.

Speaker 1 I thought it's not like Houston doesn't need him and they had a stretch where Van Vuiet was out for a few weeks and he still wasn't really playing. And

Speaker 1 maybe he's just a guy that needs big minutes and isn't capable of coming off the bench and playing 15.

Speaker 1 But I promise you, they thought they were getting a little more from him this year than this with the shooting, you know?

Speaker 1 That's fine. And when he finally got minutes that one game where he was really decisive and you could just see all the special stuff with him, that he is a really good athlete.

Speaker 1 And then when he was coming off the screen, it was actually a little bit like Bronnie in that Bucs game where it's like, okay, well, if he's going to be decisive,

Speaker 1 I didn't ever expect to see this. And maybe it's being decisive.
Like, you can't just throw away all of Bronny's attempts and say, oh, they were down 30. Like, who cares if he's decisive?

Speaker 1 Because he was decisive earlier in the game.

Speaker 1 But Reed had that game where he went off, and you could tell he was reading how they were playing him coming off the screen. Where I think when you're a young player, you're not getting any minutes.

Speaker 1 You're not even like looking at that stuff. You're just going, all right, you know, what's the read? And should I just get rid of this ball?

Speaker 1 He was really good with that. I also can see it as an EMA thing where Young Guard,

Speaker 1 I'm just going to beat you up here. Yeah, you're now playing defense nearly at the level I want to be at, so you're just not going to play.
Sorry.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and they're fighting for playoff seating throughout all this. McCain is 21.

Speaker 1 Shepard's 21.

Speaker 1 Yeah, Reed's 21 this summer. So, you know, a lot of these guys, they come in a little bit older now, but

Speaker 1 yeah, I think I'd still go Shepard just because of the shot making. But McCain, you're right.
I mean, it was the only good story of the Sixers all year long.

Speaker 1 Like, I guess I just don't feel like in March after the draft of saying the only guys that produced have to be ahead of all of the prospects that aren't even getting opportunities and just reshuffling it based on shot attempts.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I'm saying it more from I just loved what McCain was doing when he was playing. I see what he is.
He's a combo guard. So you would take him fifth.
You might be right, by the way. So this is.

Speaker 1 I don't know if either of us are necessarily even right, but I think I would take take him right now over over reed but i i think it's close um

Speaker 1 and then after that we move into this you know you got bub carrington you got jalen wells the kid on memphis edie's still there wear is still around

Speaker 1 uh eves meacy yeah measi on uh on new orleans um ron holland the fight starter and then clinging

Speaker 1 I think would be the kind of the next group. And then it becomes a question of what do you like? Quentin Post.

Speaker 1 Quinton Post. Shannon's out there.
It's a weird, fun draft, but I think if we're looking at who has the best chance to be really good coming out of this draft, I think we hit the top six, right?

Speaker 1 Is there anybody else? Well, I think what's really interesting is how early the Dalton Connect story was. Are you kidding me? Right.
They got this guy at 17.

Speaker 1 And the fact that they traded him that soon

Speaker 1 is alarming that they were like, we're good. Now you could argue hey it was mark williams mark williams version 2.0 has been better we know the injury history with him

Speaker 1 argue they should have still made the trade

Speaker 1 and their need and thinking okay well they've added luca like there's a glaring need can you really make it through the playoffs with jackson hayes but jackson's life isn't entirely better now because you're playing with somebody like luca and it's just like look just show defensively attack at the rim run the floor all night he doesn't rebound though you could see it last night like he's he's great at alley oops.

Speaker 1 He kind of knows where to go and what to do.

Speaker 1 But the fact that he's turned into somebody who might be a backup for a long time, though, is a complete win considering how lost he had looked for multiple seasons.

Speaker 1 But I think back to the connect point is

Speaker 1 those first few months. And,

Speaker 1 you know, he's a mess on defense. And yes, he's older because of his college travels, but it's like, I can't believe this guy got him at 17.

Speaker 1 Are we sitting here at the end of the year thinking he actually probably went based on the names you've already listed here?

Speaker 1 We hadn't even gotten to him that he kind of went in the range that you would still put him in today?

Speaker 1 Yeah, he's definitely, I would say,

Speaker 1 you know, like he's after wear. There was a three-week stretch where it seemed idiotic that Miami didn't take Connect and that they took wear over him.

Speaker 1 And now I think, you know, it's also not like Miami is playing well. The one that's, I think, the most polarizing with different people I've talked to is Klingen,

Speaker 1 whether.

Speaker 1 This is just kind of who he is, a guy who can box some shots, who's a little slow, doesn't really have any offense, or whether this is somebody that could potentially be the anchor of a really good team.

Speaker 1 And I think the fact that he's getting actual minutes for them, and they've been a good basketball team for, you know, two plus months here and really competitive.

Speaker 1 And I think he's a piece and feel the same way about Edie. I don't know if they're ever,

Speaker 1 you know, one of the four best guys on an awesome team. Probably not.
But could they be in an eight-man rotation on a really good team? I think they could.

Speaker 1 The Klingon thing feels a little tough

Speaker 1 just because

Speaker 1 when you look at Portland and the number of guys out there that want to shoot,

Speaker 1 you know, Sharp should be shooting. You know, Simons is somebody that still bails him out of a lot of possessions.
Denny's going to get his shots. You know, Scoot isn't shooting.

Speaker 1 You know, it's nobody wants to be Chris Paul their second season of their career. Well, it's tough when you're playing with Denny and Denny all of a sudden turns into Larry Bird.

Speaker 1 In the last six weeks, when he looks like he's doing an 85 Bird impersonation.

Speaker 1 It's unbelievable how good he is. Even he's saying, I've never played this well in my life.
I don't know what's happening.

Speaker 1 Banton had that stretch last year post-Boston where it was like, man, this guy can actually really score.

Speaker 1 Yeah. He couldn't crack the rotation for Boston.
And you'll watch him where I don't think anybody gets happier when the game clock is with the shot clock off.

Speaker 1 Banton's like, awesome. Like, no, I don't have to pass this to anybody.
So Klingon's in a really tough spot

Speaker 1 as far as like, you know, he might be the sixth

Speaker 1 best option when he's playing on the court offensively for them.

Speaker 1 So it's, it, look, I think considering like it went from could he go number one to then he goes seven, you know, being stuck behind eight and Rob Williams update. He's got three to four weeks.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I just assume he's that play. Yeah, right.
If you see him, that's like a bonus. It's like, oh, there he is.
When did Portland get this guy?

Speaker 1 I know what you're saying.

Speaker 1 Like, you'd like to see some higher, like, ceiling moments from him offensively, but I don't know that it's entirely fair to like, oh, oh, you know, this might, maybe those guys are right.

Speaker 1 Cause I hear it too. Like, this is, you guys were nuts.
He wasn't this good. This is why he went where he went.
And, you know, he's a, he's a rotational big that they took this high.

Speaker 1 You're like, man, that'll suck.

Speaker 1 And so really, it's a six, and then it's kind of a, let's see, depends on who you like, but we should talk about Ron Holland for a split second, who was the fifth pick in the draft. Yeah,

Speaker 1 he is still 19 years old. He carries himself like he's 32.

Speaker 1 They throw him out there, like he plays real minutes every game. Sometimes he's pretty good, sometimes he'll make some shots.
He's physical. Um,

Speaker 1 he's a little early era, and I don't mean this in a melee standpoint, Ron Artest-ish.

Speaker 1 Like, actually, it reminds me of Ron Artest. Hopefully, he won't go charging in a row three at some point in his career.
But

Speaker 1 they took him pretty high. And, you know, I'm not against it.
They took him fifth overall. We don't have him in our top six, but I don't wouldn't rule him out.
Would you?

Speaker 1 We'll see. He's 19.

Speaker 1 No, but unfortunately, the scattering report tracks on him. You know, he had some okay months as far as shooting, but he's also shot at 11% from three.

Speaker 1 He shot at 50%. 11% from three.
Yeah, that's in March. March, he's at 7%.
Now

Speaker 1 he's not really taking them as much anymore. I actually think that's like one of the funniest things about young perimeter players when they come in.
They're like, hey, you can't shoot.

Speaker 1 And it's like, well, time to learn NBA games. And they just start taking threes because everybody just takes threes.

Speaker 1 And then you can see it get to some guys where you go, hey, maybe you shouldn't be taking even three a game. So the percentages are even worse now because he's taking even less of them.

Speaker 1 But I'm with you. I love the aggression, and that's what you saw before the draft.
There is a no-nonsense part of him.

Speaker 1 Isaiah Stewart, I don't know if that's the best teammate for him to have or the worst teammate for him to have. He's definitely going to be going

Speaker 1 into the other bench for the bench clearing bra. He'll be the first guy behind him.
But Detroit, you know, has spacing around Cade, and that's what's opened up Cade. They defend, they shoot.

Speaker 1 So the Holland Minutes, I'll admit, like, I love

Speaker 1 the aggression that drives the body size of mixing it up with guys. And there's never a moment of him where he's deferring at the rim.
Like he's trying to go for it. But,

Speaker 1 you know, there's no way he's closing with the pistons, I would imagine, in a playoff game because he's just not going to provide any spacing.

Speaker 1 Imagine in a playoff series how he would be defended. Like it just means there's another guy in Kate.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 They'll throw him out for little five-minute stretches. But yeah, I think the playoffs will be a little different.
How many minutes do you think Ron Art Tess played as a rookie in the the 2000 Bulls?

Speaker 1 Like eight a game?

Speaker 1 31.1.

Speaker 1 Wait, he did as a rookie? Yeah. Oh, I was thinking Jimmy Butler.
My bad. No, I would have said eight a game.

Speaker 1 Yeah, he was 31 per section three. Because I loved him so much at St.
John's that I don't remember him playing that.

Speaker 1 I didn't have league pass that year, so I can't say the 2000 Bulls. were on my TV a lot that year.
But yeah, and he couldn't shoot either. There's same size.
He reminds me of him a little bit.

Speaker 1 Uh, any Bub Carrington thoughts before we move on? Yeah, I like Bub a lot.

Speaker 1 Keyshawn, Kaishon George,

Speaker 1 a lot of size, a lot of size for a perimeter guy. Quentin Post

Speaker 1 could have like a 12-year career.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, incredible, incredible scouting job. And now he's the performer.
50-second pick.

Speaker 1 Collier

Speaker 1 had a couple moments on Utah.

Speaker 1 He was like averaging seven, eight assists a game for like a month.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think he has a really nice

Speaker 1 handle-drive combination stuff with him, but Utah has all like it's another group of guys that all just think,

Speaker 1 you know,

Speaker 1 it's just a pickup game that never ends with the Utah Jess. Just exactly.
15 guys not knowing if they're getting run.

Speaker 1 Who knows? We'll see how long Will Hardy enjoys that. And Dillingham just doesn't play.
Shannon Jr. had some fun moments when people were out.
And then

Speaker 1 talk to me about your Charlotte guy that you loved. Salon, it's just kind of a mess.

Speaker 1 But you were expecting that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 In retrospect, six might have been a whiff too high for him.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, he just,

Speaker 1 you know, when he's out there, so we'll, we'll at least give him that. But,

Speaker 1 you know, there's just a lot of running around. You know, when he's out there is not a compliment.

Speaker 1 Oh, I think it is.

Speaker 1 I think Bozelis falling to 11

Speaker 1 is probably like looking back at the draft, who knows with all these dudes. They're all like babies, basically.
But

Speaker 1 that's the one that I think is going to seem weird down the road. McCain, whatever.
We knew that McCain was falling too far as it was happening.

Speaker 1 But Bozelis, like a team like Charlotte, that would have been been a really nice pick for them.

Speaker 1 Well, the knock was he couldn't shoot. He shot it better in the first half of the season.
As he's played more minutes, he shot it worse.

Speaker 1 Stroke's there.

Speaker 1 But I would say he, yeah, I don't know. Look, you don't have to listen to me.

Speaker 1 You can listen to scouts because whenever you first started watching him, I mean, if there was an N1 mixtape and that's all you were allowed to look at, he's the number one pick in the draft. Okay.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 the more you watched him, And Scouts are like, we've been waiting for this guy to shoot for years, and he's never really been able to shoot it.

Speaker 1 But it wasn't just the dunk that he had on the baseline of Luca last night.

Speaker 1 There was another play later in the game where, you know, it was just really smart, like that secondary cut, which, again, if you're playing with Giddy, like Giddy's one of those players, it's like, if you just stay active in the possession, if you just keep thinking that there's an option for you, you're going to be rewarded.

Speaker 1 And he had a cut off the left side on a Giddy drive on the right side where he was. he was rewarded for staying active.

Speaker 1 And at that point, too, like the Lakers, you know, that whole team moves, though. It's really like that team is like, if I move, I might go.
God, you love the Bulls. I did.
I really did. I thought,

Speaker 1 look, it was the perfect opponent for them. But I've liked that.
I mean, what have they won? Like seven of the last nine?

Speaker 1 They've been on my radar for a couple of weeks here because I've been trying to figure out playing stuff.

Speaker 1 And I've been scouting some teams, watching Miami just on the cruise ship to hell and just thinking like, could any, watching Atlanta a little bit, could anybody.

Speaker 1 you know, emerge and be a possible seven seed in a team that's playing the Celtics.

Speaker 1 And I think if the Bulls got the seventh seed and played the Celtics, the Celtics would beat them, but that's not a fun series. And those guys would be run and gun, go, go, go the whole time.

Speaker 1 You're nuts. I don't love it.
You're nuts. I'm just saying it's not a fun series.

Speaker 1 I'm not saying the Celtics would lose.

Speaker 1 I just, I don't like playing teams with gimmicks that are really confident in their gimmick. They're 31 and 40.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know. What have they, like eight of their last 10, seven of their last nine, something like that? I mean, mean,

Speaker 1 would you rather? They traded Levine,

Speaker 1 and they're playing better now.

Speaker 1 Yeah. And by the way,

Speaker 1 your guy, your guy who you sold your stock on a couple of years ago, Red Velvet, you called the broker and like, just unload it. Just get rid of it.
Did I? Yeah, just get rid of it. I don't want it.

Speaker 1 I thought we did a role play of that where I was like,

Speaker 1 we're still in. Maybe you're still in.
I don't know. In my head, I sold it.
I don't remember. I certainly haven't heard you talking about him that much, but

Speaker 1 red velvet seemed a little back.

Speaker 1 Our pod got a little too white. We had a stretch there where I was like, dude, can you get, do you guys want Doug McDermott? And I was like, yeah, I love Doug McDermott.
Let's have him on.

Speaker 1 And they're like,

Speaker 1 six white guys started the game last night. Six of the ten.

Speaker 1 My wife just, because I brought my wife and she's like, is this unusual? She was stunned.

Speaker 1 I'm telling you, man, things are changing.

Speaker 1 I've been telling Van a lot that he's better, we're coming back. Flag, we're coming back.

Speaker 1 That Best Buy ad with that rapper, that woman, with Buster, and then they went to her. Thanks again to Workday for sponsoring that segment.
I had a good time. Learn more at workday.com.

Speaker 1 We're going to take a break and come back with more basketball. Hey, let me tell you about one of my favorite bets that Fando has right now.
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Speaker 1 Give them a problem, call winning 100 gambler, or visit rg-help.com. This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra.

Speaker 1 We are getting close to the NBA playoffs, which means we are getting close to the NBA Finals, one of my favorite sporting events, not just because it's really fun basketball at the highest possible level, but all the historical legacy stuff.

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Speaker 1 Other topic before we do our sliding doors thing is the Cavs lose four in a row and Mitchell. I was saying last week on this podcast to you, first team all NBA was in pen.

Speaker 1 And the Mitchell, the second half of the year stats for him are bad. The Cavs tailing off a little bit where they're not going to be the best team in the league.
Okay, C's going to take that spot now.

Speaker 1 And is that Mitchell spot open for you for top five MVP and then first team all NBA?

Speaker 1 All right, make your first all-first team NBA case because I was a little thrown off by this last night because then I did the work this morning and I'm actually kind of fascinated to know what your

Speaker 1 group is. So

Speaker 1 Mitchell on the best team in the East have a chance to win in the mid to high 60s.

Speaker 1 24 points a game, 4 and 5, 44%,

Speaker 1 37 from 3. He's played 10 plus 10.9 net.

Speaker 1 Only playing 31.4 minutes a game, which is not his fault. We always talk about it all NBA.
You can't penalize team guys because their teams are kicking ass and they're not playing fourth quarters.

Speaker 1 But in the second half of the season, since the all-star break,

Speaker 1 I think he's shooting 30% from three. I test-wise hasn't looked as,

Speaker 1 oh, I can, when I want, I'll snap my fingers, I'll take this game over for you. That hasn't been happening the same way.
And Edwards is playing really well.

Speaker 1 And Edwards would be the guy, if you're going to say who's taking the spot.

Speaker 1 That was the only guy I could come up with. Like, you didn't tell me who you were suggesting as another alternative to Mitchell.

Speaker 1 And I was like, I'm at a loss because obviously it's not Brunson with the games thing. Luca clearly isn't even close in the games part of it.

Speaker 1 As much as we all love Steph, he's not first team this year. So Ant is the only one that I could come to.
Ant's the only one. Ant's up to 28 a game.

Speaker 1 He's shooting 40% from three, taking a ton of threes.

Speaker 1 He's going to lead the league in threes this year, which is unbelievable. Curry leading the league in threes was always the safest bet in the world.

Speaker 1 He's going to end up with over 300 threes and over 500 free throw attempts. They're plus 4.2 net when he plays.
He plays, which I think is really important. Doesn't miss games ever.

Speaker 1 And he is an excellent defensive player. And Minnesota is playing better.

Speaker 1 Minnesota, I think, has a chance to be in the 49 to 50 win range, coming off a summer where they made, you know, a really, really impactful, huge trade, you know, that they, that took a while for them to figure out what their team was.

Speaker 1 Then Randall got hurt. DiFincenzo missed some time.

Speaker 1 Conley looked like he was dead the first six weeks of the season, and they've rounded into a team that I think at least is in in the conversation for hey if somebody could have a puncher's chance of beating okayc who is it so i think if the last 12 games i guess the point would be mitchell doesn't have this lockdown anymore and there's a world where edwards could steal this from him sometimes with these two it's just you're so

Speaker 1 determined to already go with it that you have to be like talked out to an irrational sense of getting you to change your mind when if you just break down the counting stats it's very close if you go to the metrics, they're pretty close.

Speaker 1 I mean, there's a couple things that favor Mitchell.

Speaker 1 Net rating is the big one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think the one that would really still keep it with Mitchell is that, especially for the voters, is that it's the best team in the East, and he's considered by most of the models the most impactful single player on the expected points added stuff.

Speaker 1 So he's the most important guy on that team, whereas Edwards is the most important guy in his team.

Speaker 1 But like, look, I'm, again, reminding everybody off of last week in the MVP conversation when I you guysed you that I'm not.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I used guy. I did it.
I did. And I'm not ashamed of it.
I'm glad we kept it in and edited it out. But

Speaker 1 I wasn't bad.

Speaker 1 Here's the thing.

Speaker 1 I'm just surprised. I'm surprised that you're bringing it up, considering I think it's going to factor in your SGA Jokic stuff.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 I would still have Mitchell first team. I was just surprised that we're not done yet.
And I've said this in years past.

Speaker 1 I think the counting stats get tough sometimes when somebody is sacrificing to be on an awesome team. Mitchell could clearly score a 28 a game if he wanted to.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 And the stats are what they are because this is the best way for his team to win. He's also playing less minutes.

Speaker 1 I still feel like in the right game, in the right situation, he's toe-to-toe against anybody else you could throw out there. He's the least afraid guy.
He's the guy they need the most.

Speaker 1 And that's why he still has the spot. But I do think Edwards is as

Speaker 1 is at least in the ballpark now, potentially stealing it. The thing I kept coming back to is if you just switch these guys this season,

Speaker 1 is Cleveland better or worse? And I actually don't think they'd be better with a young Edwards still feeling himself out, trying to decide how good he is as a player.

Speaker 1 If you just threw him into what they have,

Speaker 1 I think he's still figuring out his individual stuff a little bit. And I think that would have probably hurt them a tiny bit.
Whereas Mitchell knows who he is. He's been in the league long enough.

Speaker 1 He knows what his ceiling is as a player, and he's able to sacrifice a little because he knows it's the best for the team. I'm not sure that's Edwards yet.

Speaker 1 But you can make a case if you flip them the other way.

Speaker 1 Maybe Minnesota is not as good with Mitchell because, you know, they lose the two-way stuff with Ant and they lose some of the swagger and some of the other stuff he brings to the table.

Speaker 1 So it's a fun combo, at least. We did a version of this with Saruti on iPod this week.
We're just like, who would you rather have? And it wasn't long-term.

Speaker 1 It was just kind of like right now to close out the season, which is, you know, look, it's not the most original gimmick, but it's kind of interesting.

Speaker 1 But he went with he'd rather have Mitchell now and through the rest of the season.

Speaker 1 I would rather have Ant.

Speaker 1 I would rather have him because of the defense. But I think there's also a part of this where you could criticize Ant a little for like, does he bring it defensively every single night?

Speaker 1 His top version of his defense is better than the top version of Mitchell's defense. And that could be as simple as just being a size.
I mean, it's as athletic as Mitchell is.

Speaker 1 I mean, it sounds crazy to suggest you prefer somebody else's athleticism over Donovan Mitchell, but Ant's that guy. I would put Ant for if he really cares for three minutes,

Speaker 1 he's way, way, way,

Speaker 1 way up there with like the best guys in the league when he really care. If it's like, Ant, we need you to shut this guy down.

Speaker 1 I would trust him. We've seen it.
We've seen it. Right.
And he loves it too. He really gets a rush out of doing it.
So that's the thing. It's just he has such a responsibility on the other end.

Speaker 1 I think he's got to pick his spots.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't, I know what you're saying about like Ant and the maturing part of this.

Speaker 1 Is Mitchell gone through enough playoff seasoning that this is a better version of him of dialing it down a little bit? But I'd say even with the way Ant handled the cat stuff,

Speaker 1 handles the Rudy stuff, that he actually shows kind of a teammate maturity.

Speaker 1 And as far as shot selection and some of that stuff, I think they've been so bad at times this year on offense. And you're right, they're rounding in a form.

Speaker 1 And I know, like, look, they lost to Zion because Zion went crazy.

Speaker 1 They lost to the Pacers in that weird game because Obi Toppin couldn't miss from three, hits that ridiculous three in the corner. Because I was watching that game going.
That was like a

Speaker 1 mid-80s bird three when he would like fall into the stands. That was one of the worst threes I've seen anyone take this year, and he fucking drained it.
Oh, he has awesome.

Speaker 1 Yeah, that was, that was a really fun game. So you're like, oh, how do they lose to these guys?

Speaker 1 It's like, well, you know, lucky enough, like having Zion, like Zion's now appointment TV again, because it's so much fun. So I was like, all right, I really want to kind of see this game.
So

Speaker 1 I was in whatever my mode of watching and picking who I wanted to watch. I watched those two games after Minnesota looked like they had figured some stuff out here.
Yeah. And

Speaker 1 so I don't like it's kind of, I want to get to the Cleveland losses in a second here, too, because you could kind of go, like, what the hell is going on with these teams?

Speaker 1 And in Minnesota, like, at least that one's kind of explainable for those two losses. And I think some of the ant stuff,

Speaker 1 at least, because the three-point shooting has been incredible. It's 40% of the season all season long.

Speaker 1 But you can tell how incredibly frustrated he has been at times facing all the double teams, trying to figure out who are the guys that I want to throw it to. Like, I know Randall's going to score.

Speaker 1 Nobody wants to pass it to Rudy. Conley doesn't really shoot.
DiVincenzo was a mess.

Speaker 1 Nas kind of hit or miss. I really like what Jaden has been for a long stretch here.
I think he's just been a more

Speaker 1 aggressive. Yeah.
Yeah. Super aggressive.
Feel like way more comfortable him having the ball now, probably at any point in his career.

Speaker 1 So even if there's some metrics that say like defensively, because I was looking at it this morning, like Mitchell and Ant are both kind of negatives on the box score defensively. That's

Speaker 1 that's, you know, I don't know. Some of the defensive stats, I kind of give up.

Speaker 1 But if something like, if there's a player who I don't like on defense and I see for seven straight years of his career, he's a net negative on defense and the team isn't always a disaster, that's usually usually pretty telling there.

Speaker 1 But I don't know where Ant was ever going to find his rest when he was sitting there trying to carry this team through all those dark days.

Speaker 1 So, him not being locked in defensively, like it actually makes a little bit more sense for him. But I would still have Mitchell first team, I think, is how I would too.

Speaker 1 Just three weeks left, it's not open and shut yet. You mentioned one thing with Ant that I think is a really good point.

Speaker 1 When he would get frustrated with how teams were defending him, which I always thought was amusing,

Speaker 1 where he's like, come on, guys, just let's let's play this. Let's just play this like men.
You know, it's kind of his attitude. And you can see him get visibly pissed.

Speaker 1 So all the smart teams are like, if we do this, he's going to fucking melt down. He hates when teams do this.
He's not at that point in his career yet where he's like, oh, they're going to do this.

Speaker 1 Then we'll do this. He's still taking it like personally that teams play him this way.
That that's like, why can't, why can't, it's almost like a UFC fighter.

Speaker 1 Like, why can't we just stand in the middle of the ring and just throw punches? Why are you Why are you doing this fucking ground game shit? Let's go. Let's go in the middle of the ring.

Speaker 1 And by the way,

Speaker 1 Mitchell knows who he is. Yeah, but Mitchell also was passing to Garland or shooting options or Mobley or Adam,

Speaker 1 who are all nice. Like he has bigs he can pass the ball to.

Speaker 1 And, you know, Randall, depending on the night, you know, is,

Speaker 1 I don't know, I'm trying to be nice here.

Speaker 1 You know, he's an option and his passing is really good, but there's also times, too, with Randall when it's bad. You just know what's going to happen.
Like the possession is going to stop.

Speaker 1 Everybody's going to watch. You're going to see what happens.
And, you know, that's not always a blast. So Mitchell, I would imagine, would be just as frustrated as Ant was.

Speaker 1 But the Cleveland stretch for this thing, I know that you're not doing it because they've lost three in a row. Orlando coming back and winning that game.
Four in a row.

Speaker 1 But what I just say, three, yeah, you're right. Yeah, four in a row.
Orlando.

Speaker 1 Well, we came on after that Orlando game. We were upset.
Sacramento or Sacramento, Phoenix.

Speaker 1 Yeah, we were upset that the streak was over because we had a whole bunch of Cleveland stuff we were going to do. And then Orlando played really well.
And Cleveland just missed shots.

Speaker 1 And it was like, oh, man, you have those games in the NBA where shots don't go in. Then they go to the Clippers

Speaker 1 and

Speaker 1 the Clippers just played awesome. Like, if you're ever going to talk yourself into the Clippers are a true contender for 25, that's the game to go and watch the tape of.
Everybody looks good.

Speaker 1 Kawhi looks great. They were incredible in that game.
Kawhi is the best guy on the floor.

Speaker 1 It was like, Jesus. And Mobley played really well in that game, and it didn't really matter.
It's like, all right, well, that's the best the clips can do. Took them by surprise.

Speaker 1 Then they go to Sacramento and they lose that one too.

Speaker 1 And then the one, the next one, was the Suns. And the Suns are like, look, we keep waiting for you guys to bring Dr.
Kvorkian in and put us down. And nobody's put us down.
So who knows?

Speaker 1 And then KD plays awesome in that game. So there are four losses that

Speaker 1 I guess if you took them one at a time, that kind of made sense. But the points they gave up, they gave up 132 to the Clippers, 123 to the Kings, and 123 to the Suns.

Speaker 1 And that is not good, Rossello.

Speaker 1 Nope. And the Suns, who we started last Sunday with after that Lakers loss, they smoked the Raptors.
They beat your Bulls. And of all the Cavs' losses, That was the most alarming one.

Speaker 1 The Orlando one, again, still shocked that they came back in the fourth quarter when you're looking at Orlando's offense.

Speaker 1 The

Speaker 1 Clippers game, the Clippers played so well that you just go, okay, you know, throw it out. Sacramento is weird, like, whatever.
Yeah, I don't know. Sacramento wasn't great.

Speaker 1 Like, I know they didn't have Darius Garland in that game, and they didn't have Mobley for the Orlando game, but

Speaker 1 the Sacramento's down Sabonis. They're down Levine, which is, you know, kind of a hit or miss anyway.
It's like, would you rather play them with Levine? So

Speaker 1 DeRosen was terrific at the end of that one. I thought the last Phoenix game was the the one with Cleveland.
We were like, what are you guys doing? Like, you've just lost three in a row.

Speaker 1 And the effort, especially in that third quarter, the rebounding stuff, like if you go through it, like none of these stats mean anything because it's only four games.

Speaker 1 But the Cavs of all teams in this four-game stretch, they're 27th on defense, not who they are, 13th on offense, whatever. They're 29th out of 30 teams in rebounding this week.
The Cavs.

Speaker 1 And granted, Zoo had 20 and Mobley had three.

Speaker 1 Zoo demolished them. Just killed them.

Speaker 1 And that's a guy that you would think the Cavs would be pretty well equipped to face.

Speaker 1 By the way, we should mention we're recording all of this before they play Utah today, and they might be able to get back on the horse.

Speaker 1 I was alarmed by a different thing in that Suns game, that if you're just projecting what does this streak mean, and then what does it mean going forward when they play Boston, whenever they play Boston?

Speaker 1 They couldn't stop Durant.

Speaker 1 They couldn't stop him. And if, as a Celtics fan, when I look at the Cavs and think of like how the matchups could favor the Cavs, how the matchups could favor Boston.

Speaker 1 Ultimately, it comes down to Tatum. Can they slow down Tatum? Can they stop him? A big 6'9 point forward who has the ball.
And that's why they traded for DeAndre Hunter.

Speaker 1 That's why they have to play a quarrel, even though they probably don't love playing the minutes they have. But that's why Struce becomes an issue

Speaker 1 when it's a bigger team with wings like what Boston has. I watched that game.
I'm like, Durant,

Speaker 1 I thought that was the best game I've seen him play all year. And he was really, really engaged.
I think he took 29 shots. He was like 17 for 29.

Speaker 1 But if you're busted and you watch that game and you're like, this is, this is the Tatum window in a series with these guys. Can they stop him? And I don't know if they can.

Speaker 1 That was one of those games where I wasn't watching it live and I knew I wanted to go back to, especially once they had lost. So I was like, okay, I want to watch this one tonight.

Speaker 1 And then it was like Durant had 19 in the third quarter. Like, what happened? So then it's like, okay, we'll make sure we get all this.
And that was the smoothest.

Speaker 1 You were counting it up. And then at one point, I think it's 11 or 12.
And be like, how is he going to get to 19?

Speaker 1 It's like, oh, he's just going to make everything else to close out this third quarter. I did hear some of the defensive player stuff about Mobley in that one.

Speaker 1 And you can get into the switching against DeRosen where he got him twice.

Speaker 1 And look, he got him once, and then Mobley played the other one. And sometimes DeRosen is just going to make better shots than any kind of defense you can stretch at him.

Speaker 1 I guess Eudonis was knocking him a little bit on the defensive player of the year thing, which just makes me think that Eudonis is up there making sure people talk about Bam.

Speaker 1 But Mobley, Durant did not get 19 on Mobley in that third quarter, which I think is important.

Speaker 1 No. Well, the other thing is you can kind of find your matchup, the matchup that you want against them.
And you can do that against any team in the league.

Speaker 1 And they do, you know, if they have those two guards out there, you're going to try to hunt one of them. Certain teams like hunting Allen and bringing him out.

Speaker 1 And I think one of the issues I have with the Cavs, and I don't even know know if it's an issue because it'll probably solve itself, but I'm still not positive what their best five is, especially against different matchups.

Speaker 1 And it might not matter, but I think they need Hunter to be that fifth guy. And he just hasn't been in a lot of big games.
You know, and we talked about this last week.

Speaker 1 He had that huge shot in the corner against Orlando and he hit the side of the backboard with it.

Speaker 1 You know, if you're guarding Kevin Durant or Jason Tatum and Hunter has to be the guy, he doesn't have a shitload of reps. I really like that trade for them.
But

Speaker 1 I I guess the good thing for them is the schedule is about to get easier. Utah, well, at Portland's not easy anymore.
San Antonio home at Detroit, and then they're mostly home the rest of the way.

Speaker 1 But look, they were 56 and 11 or 56 and 10 when this thing started or 56 and 14. They're two giant win streaks.
Right. They were 18 and three against the West until this weird stretch.

Speaker 1 They go out west. It's almost April.

Speaker 1 Even without a deep playoff run with this group, this is not who they are. I don't know that you can point to this week if they lose to Boston and be like, oh, see, we knew.
And look, I'll leave that.

Speaker 1 I think that's fair. Yeah, I think against DeRosen

Speaker 1 and some of the minutes against Durant, like, because I've talked about the Hunter trade too much, but I'll just say it one more time.

Speaker 1 At least there's an option for a big guy against the Jalen, Brown, Tatum, even Derrick White, you know, Drew Holiday thing, because that was four guys that you always felt like, hey, they're going to find somebody against Garland here.

Speaker 1 Like, no matter what you do, there's going to be a way to attack Garland. And then if you're helping over that, now you're leaving Derrick White or you're leaving Drew in the corner.

Speaker 1 Or now, you know, obviously Tatum kind of attacks Allen a lot in that last regular season game that they played against each other. So Hunter at least provided some kind of option.

Speaker 1 So I think he has to be the fifth in that playoff series against Boston. And that's really the only one that matters.

Speaker 1 I think there's other games where maybe they'll want the spacing of Struce against a different team. Struce would be the other guy.
May not matter.

Speaker 1 You know, I don't know how Ty Jerome fits in in closing minutes of a playoff game next to Mitchell and Garland already out there. It seems a bit redundant, so you may not need it.

Speaker 1 But I could see Struce closing or even Dean Wade, who's so good defensively, man, like constantly watching him get hunted because he's a white guy. It's like the Hauser thing.
He's got a Hauseritis.

Speaker 1 Except he's even taller than Hauser is.

Speaker 1 And, you know, he's another guy that provides you some kind of spacing. So if it's a bigger unit, so like, look, we've been over all these different rotation combos.

Speaker 1 I've talked about it too many times, but I'll admit on this West Coast swing, as I'm excited about the hunter option for the Cavs, I also see him getting a little too upright.

Speaker 1 I also look at him like defensively, going, Am I giving him the benefit of the doubt of some defensive option against

Speaker 1 just because he's exactly just because he's tall when in reality, like you can attack him too. Rousseau, this mattered.

Speaker 1 These, this four really good teams, I don't think, lose four games in a row when they have real stakes. And you can't.
Oh, I don't think it matters at all. I don't know.
I think it matters.

Speaker 1 Can I make the case? Well, it's your, yeah, of course. No, you can't.
Well, here's the case because they'll be like, oh, they have the one seed sewn up.

Speaker 1 No,

Speaker 1 they had a two-game lead on OKC for home court in the finals. And home court in the finals matters more than it ever has now because we went back to the 2-2-1-1-1.

Speaker 1 So they had this in their grasp. And I also think one of the reasons I like them is they've been so consistent and so good.
And after a while, you go, look, man, the numbers are the numbers.

Speaker 1 This is the best three-point shooting team in the league. They're awesome defensively.
They're able to hold their own against all these good players.

Speaker 1 And then they just get smoked in those last three, especially. Orlando throwaway, that's a weird game.
You know,

Speaker 1 you're on Sunday, it's early, you think you're going to extend the streak right before you go on the road.

Speaker 1 But the other ones, they had real trouble against Kawhi and DeRosan and Durant in back-to-back-to-back.

Speaker 1 That's a real thing that I think is going to ultimately, if you're the Celtics, and even if you're the Knicks,

Speaker 1 you're looking at that and you're like, hey, this is good for us. The Knicks? Come on.

Speaker 1 If the Knicks beat the Celtics, I'm saying. I didn't want to leave them out.

Speaker 1 Yeah, but I mean, the standard that you're holding Cleveland to and saying this could be something that's alarming, then you're ignoring all the Knicks stuff.

Speaker 1 Unless, you know, look, not having Brunson clearly. Do I think the Knicks are going to be in round three? No, I don't.
I think Boston's going to beat them.

Speaker 1 I just didn't want to leave them out because we have New York listeners trying to kick them. The Phoenix game was alarming.

Speaker 1 The Sacramento one, you're supposed to win that one after the two losses already, but it was actually a close game. Like it came down to the final few seconds in that one.
It was an old school DeRosa.

Speaker 1 I don't, I think they've been too good they put together that absurd streak we know who the players are it feels like this is their time not saying in their time because like some of the playoff seasoning annoys me where okc it's like well they haven't done it yet okay well maybe for okc their seasoning was just that dallas series last year

Speaker 1 yeah i think that that matters in that combo They have done it yet because

Speaker 1 that was a really competitive, awesome series. So you can't say they've never been in a situation like that, you know? Okay, so we agree.
You at least have to point to that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 You know, because I feel like we've always heard it over and over again. It's like, oh, the Pistons had to lose to the Celtics and the Bulls had to lose to the Pistons.

Speaker 1 And it's just like on and on and on as if it never, like, Golden State was rather new.

Speaker 1 Maybe their San Antonio series in 14 was enough seasoning for them to get through everything in 15 and the Cavs' injuries.

Speaker 1 But,

Speaker 1 you know, did Toronto have seasoning? Or was it just a really good year? And then he doesn't need seasoning.

Speaker 1 Shea.

Speaker 1 I think we're good.

Speaker 1 I i don't think there's a playoff scenario where he can't get every fucking shot he wants in a series and chet is the one you would worry about in a series like this but chet got his ass kicked in that dallas series and if that didn't make him he came back bigger stronger hartenstein had a bunch of uh playoff stuff like really the the the one that the only one that worries me for real is jalen williams just because he's going to have the ball a lot and did what did he learn from that dallas series because it's going to happen again they're going to just send the two guys at shea They're going to make Jalen Williams have the ball all the time or Isaiah Joe or whoever it is.

Speaker 1 How are those guys going to function when they're just like, hey, look, Shea's not beating us in this game. We'll play four on three against you guys.
Go ahead, knock yourselves out.

Speaker 1 And who's going to step up? And that's it. I would expect, too, like even when you watch OKC, if teams try to trap SGA, and sometimes they'll save it, right? Yeah.

Speaker 1 Whoever they play, especially early on, they'll probably just sell out and be like, let's kind of do this.

Speaker 1 I trust that there's enough playmakers, shot makers, and options off of that trap that even if you're slowing SGA down, you're selling out and sacrificing something else that usually in NBA games, if you do it too long, like you can't ever go into a game and be like, this is what we're going to do, because then it's like, all right, seriously, no, but you can mix it up.

Speaker 1 Right. Because now Martin Stein so good at the foul line in that four-on-three situation.
It is like the all-time that signing was incredible.

Speaker 1 We got to take a break and then we're doing slide indoors. This episode is brought to you by Prime Video.
It's Bill Simmons here.

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Speaker 1 This episode is brought to you by Velveeta. Game Day is all about the tailgate spread.
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We almost did last week, and then we got so caught up with other stuff we forgot to do.

Speaker 1 We're calling it 2020's sliding doors, the biggest what-ifs of the half decade, because it is the half decade now. We had five years ago was COVID.

Speaker 1 It's been a good half decade, but Rocky Start, but Rocky Start, doing better.

Speaker 1 And I asked you to write down the biggest what-ifs for you from this decade. I wrote down my own list.
I'm sure we have a lot of the same stuff. We are not doing this draft style.

Speaker 1 We're just doing like, we can just go back and forth the biggest things we've seen.

Speaker 1 What's the biggest sliding door what if for you in this first five years of this decade? I have like 12 of them. You think we'll have time?

Speaker 1 I'm just kidding. I have a bunch too.
I'm ready. I'm ready for however you want to do this.
No, I have three because I spent too much time on one, but I knew you'd probably have five. All right.
So

Speaker 1 Houston takes Mobley number two instead of Jalen Green in the 21 draft. Oh, wow.
That's a great one.

Speaker 1 Was that in the mix?

Speaker 1 Why not? I mean, I'm just saying. No, but when that happened, I'm trying to remember when during that draft, were we wondering if, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 We were wondering if they would go two or three with that. Oh, shit.

Speaker 1 I just blew your mind. Yeah, I think this is going to be your favorite one.
I mean, I know you have ones that you've got probably liked to do.

Speaker 1 So let's do it. So I ran through a couple scenarios.
There's plenty of, you know, as

Speaker 1 the

Speaker 1 ripples go through the lake off the pebbles

Speaker 1 velocity here.

Speaker 1 So that would mean no Jalen Green.

Speaker 1 So

Speaker 1 we wouldn't be kind of stuck in this, what is Jalen Green riddle that's gone on for a really long time.

Speaker 1 And I think the nice way of talking about it is that I think he's still really important to their offense because what he can get on his own.

Speaker 1 Like in today's NBA, him being able to get what he can on his own. I still feel like I fell in love with him in those non-Shingoon games at the end of the season last year.

Speaker 1 It's almost like exactly a year ago. I was like, this dude is figuring stuff out, and it is a little weird and maybe worrisome about the Shingoon part of it.

Speaker 1 Remember, Houston, so they take Mobley two. So now there's not the green part of it.
They took Shingoon 16 that year. So if they take Mobley two, they probably don't take Shingoon.

Speaker 1 So he's not on the team. I don't like doing just whoever is good after the pick that you selected, Shingoon, means you would have gotten this guy.

Speaker 1 But look, there's a Trey Murphy conversation who goes 17. On that pick, though, they traded for the pick because that was an OKC pick, right?

Speaker 1 And OKC got out of 16, traded it to Houston, and got these two like super conditional first-round picks that I don't even think have really turned in anything.

Speaker 1 So they definitely traded up for Shangoon. The question is: do you do that if you also have Mobley? I don't think so.
Even if we did talk about bad teams and not wanting to draft based on need,

Speaker 1 I have a hard time believing that

Speaker 1 a team would take Mobley, then take Shangoon, going, we're just going to roll into it. Although, who knows? Like, maybe Mobley would be the best thing to play next to Shingoon.

Speaker 1 That would have been an amazing combo. All right.
So you're saying if they draft Mobley, no Jalen Green and no Shangoon already. Right.
Because he was, it was a 22 first and a 23 first.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I did all the legwork on this, and those firsts were kind of those conditional rollover, rollover, rollover. And I don't think it's one of the

Speaker 1 weird Presti moves where it's like, why don't you just take Shangoon?

Speaker 1 I got to tell you, I feel like I need to spend a weekend in a cabin somewhere and go back through all of the crazy, like, here's four or five first rounders and just do a final tally.

Speaker 1 Maybe we need to do that on a slower day

Speaker 1 because I'll admit, there's just some I go, you've completely lost, like, Marshawn Bochamp, like, what? What happened there?

Speaker 1 And I'll like, I'm sorry, like, I know I'm supposed to know all of this stuff, but there's a basketball reference will have that, it has that trade pocket at the bottom of the guys' pages, and you read the trades, and you're like, dude, it's my homepage, I'm on it all the time.

Speaker 1 And then they'll, there's just some of these deals that, like, once all the picks are done through, I think we might even be a couple years away from it all but going through like what the cost like two trades that felt like the exact same cost and the price that was paid are two entirely different worlds based on how the picks conveyed didn't convey anyway so staying with this theme here so um

Speaker 1 you know who knows what happens with usman garuba and josh christopher because those are later first rounders as well but i think the other side of this is okay so jalen green not part of the equation no shangoon maybe they take him maybe they put him next to mobley and it's terrific who knows?

Speaker 1 But then on the Cleveland side of it, does Cleveland sit there with Jalen Green going, We can't trade for Donovan Mitchell in 22?

Speaker 1 Uh, the answer is definitely yes, because part of the reason they did that Mitchell trade was they were like, We feel like we've hit a home run with Evan Mobley, now we're going to get it.

Speaker 1 We've sped up our timeline now. Let's go for this because we think Mobley is that good.
You're not doing that if you have Jalen Green, I don't think.

Speaker 1 With for what they gave up with marking in and five firsts and all the other shit, and the Kessler. I mean, that trade was expansive.
They did it because they love Moble.

Speaker 1 I don't think it was that many firsts. It was three firsts and two swaps, right? Oh, okay, okay.
Yeah. Right, right.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't think they do it. So now we've altered the destinies of Cleveland, Houston, and Utah.

Speaker 1 Yeah,

Speaker 1 that's the thing, right? So there's two swaps in there.

Speaker 1 That's pretty good. Yeah, because

Speaker 1 I don't think teams would take a Jalen Green

Speaker 1 and then go, let's do the Mitchell trade now to either.

Speaker 1 And they would have Darius Garland on the team already, too.

Speaker 1 All right. That's a really good one.
Great start. Here's my number one.

Speaker 1 It's an injury one, which I don't usually love for what-ifs, but

Speaker 1 Murray tearing his ACL when he did,

Speaker 1 like to me, the ultimate what-if sliding door thing is the title shift,

Speaker 1 right?

Speaker 1 This is one where he tears his ACL, and it's right after the uh, the COVID when they started it.

Speaker 1 It's after the bubble, they start the season late, so he tears his ACL when Murray was potentially the most annoying human being in the world during the bubble on the sideline, right?

Speaker 1 Well, that was a weird, that was a weird couple weeks. Uh, I like that he's he's no longer doing that.

Speaker 1 Murray tears his ACL on April 12th, 2021,

Speaker 1 like a little bit before the playoffs. So he misses the 21 and the 22 playoffs.

Speaker 1 The Suns ends up making it in 2021 with a team that looking back is like, wow,

Speaker 1 that not only was that team pretty awesome, but that team came really close to winning the finals. But now I look at that team and it's like, would this team be like a five-seat in the West?

Speaker 1 And then Golden State makes it in 2022 because Murray doesn't come back in time. And that's the one where if you're at Denver, I mean, Denver ends up winning it in 23.

Speaker 1 I think Denver, if they have Healthy Murray the whole time, I just would have them over that Golden State team as great as Steph was because you had Clay at a weird point in his career.

Speaker 1 Draymond was at a weird point in his career.

Speaker 1 I just think Denver would have been better.

Speaker 1 But you think they would have won back-to-backs? No, I think they would have won 22, and then I don't know what happens in 23.

Speaker 1 It's a weird way of having the Celtics win it in 23.

Speaker 1 I don't know what happened. No, because Miami beat them in 23.
They didn't even get to the finals.

Speaker 1 I don't know how it goes, no matter how you want to do it, but I just think they would have won the title sooner than that. And it's the only injury we'll talk about.

Speaker 1 I know the net sliding doors will probably come up there in this, but this is the only one where

Speaker 1 I'm really confident that the 21 or 22 finals would have played out differently in some way. So I think this was the biggest injury.

Speaker 1 The Giannis sprained ankle in 2020, I think was a really underrated sprain injury when he got hurt in game four against Miami. And then Miami ends up going all the way through through the bubble.

Speaker 1 I think you could argue that could have been Milwaukee that year. And then Kyrie and Hardin going down in 21.

Speaker 1 I think those are the three biggest injuries where you could say the title probably swung because this happened or almost probably swung. So I would have that.

Speaker 1 That's a good one because that Warriors team in 23, it was

Speaker 1 22, excuse me.

Speaker 1 That was

Speaker 1 that was like this story, but as it was happening, it still kind of like, I can't believe this team's going to win the whole thing. Whole time.
Even during that Memphis series, it was like,

Speaker 1 and then, and then the Celtics when they lost

Speaker 1 that. They were up 3-1.
Then they just focused on them. I don't know.
It was like, wow,

Speaker 1 this is what we're, one of these teams is probably making the finals. Does Memphis a weird time for the season? How about this? Does Memphis have playoff seasoning?

Speaker 1 Because of that? No,

Speaker 1 when you think about Memphis and who they've been, where they've been in the seeding, where they've been in some regular season moments, and it feels like they're on the cusp of like, are we getting a Western Conference finals appearance out of this team?

Speaker 1 I think there's even been moments this year when you look at the standings, you're like, you know, if Jaw is right, like, do you love their closing five? Like, what's going to happen?

Speaker 1 By the way, nobody, I think. people obviously with Denver, which I think Denver's actually become a little overrated in this OKC conversation.
More than a little. Right.
And I'm even guilty of it.

Speaker 1 Probably going back less than two months ago. I was like, hey, we still got to include Denver in that one team.
And then the more I just kept watching it, I go, you know what?

Speaker 1 It needs to be the three teams. And then it's Denver maybe in their own group.
That Lakers push maybe put Lakers with the Nuggets.

Speaker 1 Houston, I think we all look at the offense going, what is that going to look like in crunch times of playoff games?

Speaker 1 But now with the Clippers resurgence, with the Timberwolves prior to those two losses, like there's a lot of stuff in there where you get through a ton of teams before you ever get to Memphis.

Speaker 1 And you could argue that they've had playoff seasoning, but you could also argue that they haven't really had any, whether it be injuries or getting blasted out so soon with this group, also because of injuries.

Speaker 1 I think if we were doing which best player in the playoffs do you trust the least, Ja would be the number one pick in that draft. From, I just don't, what am I getting from him?

Speaker 1 How many games, how many games is he going to play? Is he going to play seven games in a row? I just don't, I don't trust it because I haven't seen it.

Speaker 1 And I also don't think like I don't think you're wrong on that. I think in a playoff series over harden you would trust harden more than jaw in the playoffs at least i know harden would play

Speaker 1 yeah but i mean is not knowing what you're getting an improvement over what harden has been for his playoffs james harden is a new man in year 19 near year 17. now you're right he's honestly due

Speaker 1 even as i like as i've talked up the clippers a little bit i purposely left out that part of it because i didn't want to be negative again i i do it far too often i can't help myself he is one of my sliding doors doors, though.

Speaker 1 So I guess I'm not going to be able to help myself one more episode here. But honestly, like,

Speaker 1 if everybody were healthy with the Clippers and flying around, it's like, you're so, you know, it's kind of the thing I used to do to Van Pelt.

Speaker 1 Like, he would go, we don't do this enough, we don't do this. I'd be like, oh, really? Pick him.
Then pick them. Pick him to win the series.
Pick him to win the West.

Speaker 1 And he was like, I bullied him into it one time. He picked the team and then they lost.
And he's like, you asshole.

Speaker 1 You know, and I was like, well, you know, this, this concept of, and look, anybody that talks for a living, there's there's a lot of like transition into, hey, no one's really talking about this team, but watching the Clippers be this awesome version of themselves again and that Cavs game and going through all the numbers and how everybody's making shots and Kawhi looking like Kawhi and Kawhi getting after Mitchell defensively and a couple huge possessions.

Speaker 1 I was like, holy shit. And then I'm saying to myself, like, so you're going to pick him? You're going to pick Harden to get to the Western Conference?

Speaker 1 Or are you going to pick Kawhi to play for six straight weeks? Yeah. That's another one.
So I think Jazz in that thing, too. That's a good draft.
You should do that with somebody.

Speaker 1 Like you should do it. Should do it with you next week.
All right.

Speaker 1 Talk about a few games. I'm going to do a second sliding doors

Speaker 1 and then I'll throw it back to you because it's tied into the injury thing.

Speaker 1 But to finish the Denver thing, you think Murray healthy, they get the one in 22. I think they win in 22.
Yeah, because Jokic was that good by then, and their supporting cast was good.

Speaker 1 I think they would have been the best team.

Speaker 1 Which ties into the other one. It's kind of a 1A1B.

Speaker 1 What if the 2021 Nets don't break down is a great one

Speaker 1 because

Speaker 1 they had that Celtech series where they looked like they might have a chance to be the greatest offensive team of all time and they're actually playing well together. And then I think Kyrie got hurt.

Speaker 1 Kyrie sprained his ankle. Harden hurt his hamstring, tried to keep playing.

Speaker 1 There's so many, and then they end up losing because KD steps on the line.

Speaker 1 But, you know, Milwaukee barely beats them, getting incredible injury luck, and they still barely win it takes them overtime game seven to beat them so then you got all the if those guys don't get hurt does yannis ever make a finals

Speaker 1 do the nets actually win the title how do we talk about kevin durant now are those guys all still together do we talk about harden we like you just mentioned harden five minutes ago well what if they won the finals that year how do we talk about him how do we talk about kyrie who gets traded does kyrie even end up on dallas does harden end up on two more teams does kd KD end up on Phoenix?

Speaker 1 It's like, that is one of those, when you talk about sliding doors, there's an alternate universe. And Zach Lowe always used to call them the greatest hypothetical team.

Speaker 1 There's an alternate universe where we talk about that team like they're the 99 Rams. We're like, oh my God, remember that? Those guys? And then they scored 130 a game and went 14 and

Speaker 1 16 and two in the playoffs? Jesus Christ. But didn't happen.

Speaker 1 There's, you could do an entire

Speaker 1 like this Celtic stock, you could do maybe a 20-parter on all the what-ifs with the Nets over this. Because I went deep into the hardened contract stuff this morning, and I did it last week.

Speaker 1 I was double-checking with somebody on all the numbers of the extensions that he was turning down. Yeah.

Speaker 1 I like staying. Let's stay on this side of it.
Which ring do you think is more important? Giannis getting that one or Jokic getting his in 23?

Speaker 1 I honestly, Giannis, because I don't think there's a path for him otherwise. I think that was their one best chance to win.
And if he doesn't win there, he starts to move into that Barkley area.

Speaker 1 And it becomes the dominant theme with him for the last couple of years, even before the dame trade. We're like, whoa, is Giannis ever? Is he ever going to make the finals? How good can he be?

Speaker 1 We're just doing that for.

Speaker 1 three years. And not like he'd give a shit.
He's not even from America. He doesn't understand how stupid half the shit is that we obsess over.

Speaker 1 But I just think that I think he would have been the guy for this decade. I don't know.
How good is he? Giannis and Jokic both took that off the table.

Speaker 1 Luca at least made the finals last year, but Luca, you know, if it doesn't happen for the Lakers for a couple of years, we'll be doing with him. But this is what we do.

Speaker 1 It's a you guys.

Speaker 1 It's a you guys. I don't feel like we're in the you guys on this as much, but I know it is, though.

Speaker 1 I think it is, but I'm not, I'm not lumping you in with everybody else because my first thought was it was Jokic because we we were talking about Jokic with all these MVPs and back in the conversation.

Speaker 1 And Giannis, you know, unfortunately, it feels like no matter what he does, he's just not as much of the conversation.

Speaker 1 I think one year

Speaker 1 I was looking back through like my MVP voting because I was looking at some other voters who I'm just, you want to talk agendas? Like, this is such a joke.

Speaker 1 And, you know, I don't know if I'll have a vote again this year, but.

Speaker 1 I hope you have a vote. You put in the work.
You watch the games. You should get a vote.

Speaker 1 Well, I appreciate you saying that, but I look at it as something when you get done with it, I don't know how you could ever be like, yeah, I nailed it. Because whenever you try to slot in Giannis,

Speaker 1 like, I bet you if you averaged out my MVP voting years, I would have Giannis higher than whatever, you know, his average finish would be.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 yet with Jokic, I think it's a different tier that he's chasing. Yeah.
And I think he would get more shit without a ring than Giannis would. I think for Giannis, it would be.

Speaker 1 Because you think Jokic has the chance to be one of the 10 best players of all time, whereas Giannis is in that 10 to 20 range, probably. It's a pretty simple formula.
If we have

Speaker 1 these conversations about you, the same thing with the quarterbacks, where it's like, okay, this guy is one of the four or five best quarterbacks with all these different things.

Speaker 1 When you lose in the playoffs, it's way worse than the 10th or 12th guy. And for Jokic, we're talking about like chasing top 10 in history.
I don't think we're talking about that anymore with Giannis.

Speaker 1 We probably were during that final stretch, right?

Speaker 1 I also think there'd be a part of this with Giannis where it would become, can you win with this approach when it's like, well, dude, I'm so glad that he won because I see somebody that reads defenses really well.

Speaker 1 He stopped taking threes. I think he's a musician.
He plays his fucking ass off. Right.
He wants to kill.

Speaker 1 everyone in the other uniform the entire time he's out there and it just it's a bit like the garnet thing because he keeps losing in the playoffs you have to start questioning him and i think the only thing that was fair to bad duck injuries with him too in the playoffs, like at the wrong times.

Speaker 1 If you were doing the full scope of it, it's like, look, as great as Garnett was, he probably couldn't have always been the number one scoring option to close out a tied playoff game because he was always probably a little bit more apprehensive offensively than I wish that he was.

Speaker 1 But to suggest that he was a loser because he was losing all the time

Speaker 1 was wrong.

Speaker 1 Were people actually doing that? Because I remember him just being this incredibly sympathetic figure, basically, you know, because Glenn Taylor, he lost all those picks and the missing things.

Speaker 1 But they weren't getting another thing Barbara left. But it's just like his supporting cast was so bad.

Speaker 1 At least the stuff I was writing back then was like, we got to rescue this guy from Minnesota almost became the narrative. Giannis, I think, has had more help than KG did.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I mean, those teams, you just go through it and you see who's like, I always like looking up like who took the third most shots for this team. You're like Trenton Hassel.
Right.

Speaker 1 They got one really good Cassell here and it felt like a miracle. It's like, oh my God, their point guards averaging 17 and 8.

Speaker 1 I want to finish the point, though, only because

Speaker 1 it would crush me as a basketball fan to watch the way Giannis plays and with all of the great things that we just talked about, right? All of the great things, that it would then lead to

Speaker 1 there's something wrong with him if he didn't have the ring. So I think you could make a really good argument for which guy would take more shit, Sans, a ring here, because

Speaker 1 Jokic is

Speaker 1 like touching

Speaker 1 a totally different historic tier, I think, than Giannis is. When it's all said and done, like, what is this guy going to be?

Speaker 1 Because the standard for him would be higher because of the way we're talking about him.

Speaker 1 Again, it feels a little dismissive of Giannis, but we're talking about like, hey, top 10 of all time in this sport versus Giannis, who probably lands in the top 20. You know, I don't know.

Speaker 1 I mean, you know this stuff better than I do.

Speaker 1 No, I can tell you, Giannis is, we're talking about the Hakeem, Shaq, Moses kind of area. Right.
And we're

Speaker 1 what's going on. Jokic is on like the bird and magic suite, like knocking on the door now.
Like, I am the natural legacy to you guys.

Speaker 1 They would get,

Speaker 1 it would be a good segment to do that, too. Like, we're just ranked, we're just producing shows here right now.
Is who are the most like, go last 20 years, the most important rings?

Speaker 1 Like, how important is Steph's fourth ring? You know, because I think I would have Steph's fourth ring

Speaker 1 over all of them. I think it vaulted him into a completely different area.
No kidding. Do you think Steph's fourth is more important than Jokic or Giannis' first or only?

Speaker 1 I do because those guys still have a chance to win another one, and Steph didn't. And Steph, there always would have been a little asterisk next to him.

Speaker 1 And all it did was put him right with Kobe and West and, you know, right in that group. And he's probably leading the way in that group.

Speaker 1 I mean, you can never say, oh, the first one, LeBron got all his teammates got hurt in 15. And then the next two, you had Durant.
That's why he won.

Speaker 1 There was always a yeah, but with him, and the yeah, butts were gone. We talked about it when it happened.
Giannis, MVP voting since 19, 114334.

Speaker 1 And he's going to be three or four this year, probably four. Yes, 14 straight years in the top four.

Speaker 1 I voted him second last year. Yeah, you were.

Speaker 1 I enjoyed it. I did not, but I liked your reasoning.
Yeah. And I know that I went back and looked at it a bunch of times and I was like, you consistently have him higher than other people do.

Speaker 1 And look, on some stuff, I'm impossibly stubborn. I will not change my mind.
I don't care what you have to say. On this, I'm not stubborn.
Like, I might be wrong, but I just felt like

Speaker 1 I don't know if the list is very long of dudes that are more impactful this season again than that guy. So,

Speaker 1 you know, we agree what happens. I think

Speaker 1 I still, if I had to do MVP right now, I would still put Tatum three and Giannis four because I just think what Tatum has done this year has been incredible.

Speaker 1 Being point forward, guarding five positions, being the best rebounder in the team and having more team success.

Speaker 1 I don't know what else you would want. You know, and Giannis is having the same 30, 12, and six that he has every year.

Speaker 1 And,

Speaker 1 you know, it's some of the same stuff with him down the stretch of games.

Speaker 1 The way teams play him.

Speaker 1 I think he's, I don't want to say hard to play with, but you kind of have to tailor the team to what he can and can't do. You know, and he's, he's really a center.

Speaker 1 And if you just think of him as a perimeter center, it probably makes more sense. But I just think Tatum's been slightly better this year.

Speaker 1 I still think it has to be one of the three most horrifying things in basketball when Giannis is deciding

Speaker 1 to the players. Well, that's the thing with the playoffs here.

Speaker 1 I was talking to a Knicks fan yesterday. Who do you not want to see in the three spot if it's between Detroit,

Speaker 1 Milwaukee, Indiana. Who's the not? I don't want to see that team.
And the case for Milwaukee is I just don't want to see Giannis for two weeks. How was that even a conversation?

Speaker 1 Well, because those are the three choices. Obviously, Detroit, you'd want to see the most because it's Cade and a bunch of guys that have been there.

Speaker 1 But Indiana is a team that plays really well against them, that pressures that they have those guards that just pressure full-time. They have a ton of confidence against them.
They're deep.

Speaker 1 And Milwaukee is kind of a messed up team. Like, they're not that good.

Speaker 1 You know, they're. I still would rather play.
You you know, there's an argument to be made because the Pacers are like a mirror version of you as the Knicks.

Speaker 1 It's like, who knows what happens in that free-for-all. Like, I wouldn't want to play the Pacers.
Pacers are number one for me.

Speaker 1 I'd rather take my chances with this Bucs team and Kuzma and some of the bench dudes. And I, you know what? Let's give Giannis his 30 and 12 every night.
We're still beating these guys.

Speaker 1 I don't know. It just feels crazy picking the pace.
I'd rather play Giannis than the Pacers, but I understand the part of it.

Speaker 1 And especially knowing the Knicks and who they are and going, hey, the Pacers are just going to run and not defend with us for seven games, too. And then who knows what happens?

Speaker 1 Well, and they're also going to, they're going to really pressure Brunson, who's coming off an injury. They're going to make him dribble for 90 feet.
Every time he's going to foul him 30 times.

Speaker 1 We're going to hack him. We're going to talk shit.
I would not want to see them.

Speaker 1 Let's take a break and then we'll finish sliding doors. This episode is brought to you by Whole Foods Market.
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Learn about credit building and more at chime.com. All right, what do you have for your next sliding door?

Speaker 1 I'll just keep it with this off of of the Nets thing because I think it's a really good point, especially when those guys were playing and you were sorting the stats going to people because I think a little bit gets overstated in each season.

Speaker 1 We're like, hey, do you realize that this team is now on pace to be the greatest offense of all time? Like Dallas had it a couple of years ago for this stretch.

Speaker 1 It's like, okay, but at no point do I look at this team. It's the rising tides thing as offenses get better and better every single year.

Speaker 1 But there was some net stuff that was happening with that group and they were winning all of those games in the rare occasion that those dudes are playing. So I love that one.
All right.

Speaker 1 So Harden, we know turned down an extension with Houston that was like $100 million on top of the $100 that he was owed. He turned that one down before the 21 season started.

Speaker 1 Remember, there's that deadline before the season gets going where he can sign an extension. He was offered three years and $160 million.

Speaker 1 That would have been on top of a player option of $47.4 million.

Speaker 1 He turned that one down because he was actually eligible for an extension for $225 million for four more years.

Speaker 1 So of all of these scenarios, he ended up demanding a trade after he called Brooklyn home, right? So, we're all on the same page.

Speaker 1 But again, I'm sympathetic to Harden a couple different times in the Harden timeline.

Speaker 1 And in the case of him being frustrated with the Nets and going, What the hell is going on over here? You know, the Kyrie stuff, he didn't want to be there anymore.

Speaker 1 I don't like the way he handled it, but that's what he ends up doing. He moves on.
All right,

Speaker 1 so

Speaker 1 instead of hitting free agency and signing any of these things that he's already been offered,

Speaker 1 he goes to Philly

Speaker 1 and does a two-year deal for $68 million with the player option for the next year at 35.7. To allegedly give them a chance to get more guys because he's a lesser deal.
They do get more guys.

Speaker 1 But the real thing was like, we'll take care of you in two years if you do this.

Speaker 1 Yeah, and that's why I've always kind of taken hard inside is that if he has already turned down a $100 million extension from Houston that was going to make him the highest paid paid player in the NBA, there's $161 million extension.

Speaker 1 That's all the Nets could offer him before the season. But he was like, look, I'm going to turn it down.
I'm going to go to free agency. I'm going to sign the extension with you here.

Speaker 1 And at one point, I think in the 26-27 season, he was going to be the first $60 million player a year on the books. Again, so that's 26-27.

Speaker 1 We're still two years away from that season that was supposed to be on the books with some of these extensions. So he's turning all that stuff down.

Speaker 1 Granted, he then gets frustrated with the Nets and wants out, but these are are the numbers that he's expecting that he's in line for. And then he signs for two years with 68.

Speaker 1 And all of us are like, what the fuck? Right?

Speaker 1 He has a player option for the second year. And remember, the player option is like, oh, he's just going to opt out.
And then he's going to go back and get his four years, $200 million.

Speaker 1 No, he's not. Because now he's not getting the extension.
Now he's pissed. He opts in to control the trade market with this.
He opts in. So that means he makes $68.6 million with the Sixers.

Speaker 1 He signs the two-year, $70 million deal as past free agency with the Clippers. So instead of those four years where he makes $138,

Speaker 1 he basically made about $70 million less over those four years.

Speaker 1 What if, what if

Speaker 1 the Sixers had just signed him? Can we go backwards? Because you had so many what-ifs in there.

Speaker 1 What if he just signs with Houston and stays there, and then they kind of keep that going for another year before they realize they can't win a title instead of just blowing it up.

Speaker 1 I still don't love the trade they made, but it did blow them up. It allowed them to reset.
It allowed them to be the Mobile Green Draft, if I remember. They got picks out of it.

Speaker 1 They got cap space, all that stuff. But then you go to the Nets.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I think it ended up being a blessing for Houston because it allowed them to reset it sooner. And now they're where they're at now.
Houston's in better shape. Right, right.

Speaker 1 Houston's totally fine with every way this has gone. Works out for Houston.
Goes to the Nets. Nets give up all that stuff for them.

Speaker 1 It's still haunting them to the point that they then just did that thing where they traded the Phoenix stuff to get back their own pick.

Speaker 1 Which is his own conversation, which may have like, we'll see what happens there because those Phoenix picks,

Speaker 1 like, who knows? Who knows? Right. But the other piece of that was when they finally have to get off Harden, they trade for Ben Simmons,

Speaker 1 which turns out to be a catastrophe. And they take Ben Simmons off Philly's hands.

Speaker 1 They give them

Speaker 1 James Harden for Ben Simmons. And like two first-round picks that mean nothing.
And as much as

Speaker 1 you can dislike Harden more than I dislike his playoff performances, but at that point, like Daryl, where's the out? Where's the out? Like, how are you going to figure out? But here's the thing.

Speaker 1 We both like the trade.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I don't know. No, because at that point, we're like, hey, they can rejuvenate Ben Simmons.
It turns out to be a dejuvenation. It just gets

Speaker 1 It gets even worse.

Speaker 1 And then with Philly,

Speaker 1 he screws them up where they finally have to get rid of him. And then they have, you know, whatever happened to them last season.

Speaker 1 But then he goes to the Clippers and he allows them to get off the Paul George thing, which then retroactively kills Philly. So he kills Philly and Brooklyn.

Speaker 1 He did Houston a favor. So let's see what he's going to

Speaker 1 go. One out of three.
Right.

Speaker 1 Now, he wanted out, but it ended up being the best thing that could have happened for them because they get to reset the clock, they get the picks, and now you know, if you were doing a future roster draft, Houston's at least a top five pick, even with the

Speaker 1 ass, right? But he helps the Clippers because they get out of Paul George, they get hardened on a much better deal. The Paul George stuff allows them to kind of reset all their apron shit.

Speaker 1 Um, maybe Houston's a top seven future roster pick because I'm kind of doing my head real quick. Yeah, they're top five, but it's just the picks they have with the Phoenix picks.

Speaker 1 It's why when you're like, okay, I'm in line for like 225 million in the summer of 22.

Speaker 1 Again, just take it and figure it out later. The numbers are

Speaker 1 interesting.

Speaker 1 But if Philly had just, after he had done the first year at the discount and then they saw him play, and then imagine like ownership's going, what, what was, you know, they can argue, it's been investigated.

Speaker 1 I'll still never believe that Hardin just decided to do a two, a one plus one with a massive haircut, knowing it had already turned down 161 million, thinking he was in line for four years and 225 million.

Speaker 1 It's like, no, I'll do two for 68, but I'll opt out next year. I just don't understand how a player or his reps would be like, we will do this and just see what happens.

Speaker 1 And then he doesn't play well in that Celtic series.

Speaker 1 I know he was great in the beginning of the Celtic series, but it was just overall at that point, you're watching another year of Harden where you're going, who would want to give him four years into 200 million now?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 that's a key point because he was so bad in six and seven. But there's another what if that's.
Because he was awesome earlier in the series again to be then dies. Right, right.
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 But the other what if to this is they don't treat Harden well in this whole extension thing and it becomes a he said, she said thing.

Speaker 1 Not great for Daryl, not great for the Sixers.

Speaker 1 So they zag the other way with Embiid.

Speaker 1 You know what?

Speaker 1 We're going to double down on Joel Embiid and show how much we love this guy with this massive extension on top of the two years we already owe him because we got to show that we love our our players.

Speaker 1 And that turns out to be a mistake. James Harden, a lot of sliding doors.

Speaker 1 And it could end up with the Clippers making the Western finals. He could be a sliding door number seven.

Speaker 1 Right, because you'd imagine if Hardin stays, there's a couple other things here, too. It doesn't mean anything for Embiid and his health, but they're better this year.

Speaker 1 And that pick has definitely gone to OKC, but it's still not like an awful pick. And by the way, they have the sixth worst record.
It's top six. If there's one upset, Philly's still losing that pick.

Speaker 1 It's like it's basically 50-50 or 60-40, depending on where they are. Even if they get to the five spot, it's still like 60-40 that they keep it.
So it's not even like, oh, we got the five spot.

Speaker 1 We're keeping the pick. No, they change the odds.
You're not keeping it, definitely.

Speaker 1 Or because Hardin isn't there to probably have them set up for a much better regular season, because if he's playing, he's putting up numbers. Right.
They keep the pressure.

Speaker 1 Then maybe they get the third pick. Right.
So maybe the best part of this, maybe it's Paul George staying with the Clippers because they don't have the harden option.

Speaker 1 Would the Clippers be better or worse? Yeah. You know, depending on George's availability, I don't know that there's much of an argument you can make on it.
Anyway, that one's endless.

Speaker 1 It just is a cycle. It's a fever dream.

Speaker 1 Well, I have another one that's endless. Ready?

Speaker 1 What if Dallas just gives Jalen Brunson a four-year 55 extension during the summer of 2021? Or even during the 21-22 season? It leads to no Jalen Brunson in New York, no Kyrie to Dallas.

Speaker 1 Maybe Lucas stays because him and Jalen Brunson are so awesome together.

Speaker 1 New York ends up trading everything for Donovan Mitchell, who wanted to play in New York for a couple of years there before realizing those doors were closed.

Speaker 1 So now we don't have the Cleveland thing either because the Knicks have traded seven first-round picks and God only knows what else to get Mitchell.

Speaker 1 Bridges doesn't go to the Knicks. Maybe he goes somewhere else, whatever.
The 2025 Cavs don't happen. It's got 19 different things, but then also it leads to sliding door 2B.

Speaker 1 Does Dallas even trade Luca at that point?

Speaker 1 And then the second part of this is, what if Dallas just leaks in mid-January that they're thinking about trading Luca?

Speaker 1 How do the next two weeks play out? Shams

Speaker 1 reports,

Speaker 1 I'm hearing the Dallas approach Minnesota about Anthony Edwards to see if, but, and, and it's just, and then the Dallas fan base reacts and we're off and I don't think there's any way he gets traded but if he does get traded it's for a way crazier price than what they got so I think those two are tied together because neither of them are now in the Dallas Mavericks

Speaker 1 is there a discussion about who would you rather have if you were the Knicks Mitchell or Brunson

Speaker 1 well

Speaker 1 the answer is Brunson because the price they gave up for Brunson versus the price they would have had to give up for Mitchell it's no contest if you're you're saying just fundamentally, who would you rather have?

Speaker 1 Yeah, let's not talk in the fact that Brunson gave him a massive discount, which again is another one of those. So I'm like,

Speaker 1 I'd personally, I'd like slight lean toward

Speaker 1 Brunson for me, but I also think Tibbs is running Brunson into the ground in a real way. And there's a chance maybe Mitchell would have been better off playing for Tibbs than Brunson.

Speaker 1 I think what they're doing to Brunson is nuts.

Speaker 1 I've been pretty consistent with it. He finally got hurt.
It wasn't, you know, he stepped on somebody's ankle. It wasn't Tibbs' fault.
But I just think running small guys into the ground like that,

Speaker 1 there is no recipe in the history of the league that that's a good idea.

Speaker 1 It almost feels like Brunson, you know, it's like recasting a movie. It's like trying to take, like, hey, could you have done Dumb and Dumber with Jeff Daniels and Paul Rudd? Right.

Speaker 1 Well, no, I can't unsee

Speaker 1 being perfect. Like, there's no way.

Speaker 1 So undoing what we've seen with Brunson and what he's meant to Knicks fans, because I imagine as I ask that question, the Knicks fans are listening to me like, are you out of your mind?

Speaker 1 Like, Brunson's, and I'm not telling you, you're wrong.

Speaker 1 I probably lean a little slight Mitchell, but I don't think many people would agree with me just because you've seen how special this Brunson Knicks thing has been, how many huge shots he's been

Speaker 1 involved in, you know.

Speaker 1 His network, people that want to play for him.

Speaker 1 I went to Laker game with a Knicks fan last night, and we were both looking around at all the jerseys, right? And the amount of Kobe jerseys that are still at Lakers games.

Speaker 1 Now, all the little kids have Luca jerseys, and there's the LeBron jerseys, and you'll see some Shaqs, and you'll see some old school Jerry West. Like, it's, it's all.

Speaker 1 Inland California guys with Reeves jerseys on. There are a couple of Reeves jerseys for Orange County.

Speaker 1 But I asked my Knicks fan friends.

Speaker 1 I asked my Knick fans friend, what are the jerseys like at Knicks games? And he's like, Brunson.

Speaker 1 it's just people fucking love brunson yeah that's kind of the point is and he was like there's a couple towns but it's kind of the zag

Speaker 1 you know it's like when the when the 2002 that when there was like a lot of pierce jerseys and then somebody would zag with the antoine jersey like i understood the antoine jersey because he was there before and he was the higher pick and it was like okay this guy you can do a little everything jordan's talking him up yeah but yeah he said there's it with the towns but it's mostly brunson i just think New York just loves Brunson, so anyway, that uh, the Dallas thing, the Brunson piece of it, when it was so obvious, like that just wasn't a lot of money and they should have done it, and then they almost did it again during the season and both times backed off.

Speaker 1 I think you look at Cuba in the last couple years,

Speaker 1 and I'm not saying it undid the 2011 title because that was amazing, but his decade.

Speaker 1 That's that's a little too harsh.

Speaker 1 His decade is fucking brutal, like not doing the Brunson thing, selling the team to these schmucks that trade Luca within a year, and then not getting nearly enough for the team, not to mention all the behind-the-shit stuff, behind-the-scenes shit that was going on with that organization.

Speaker 1 Rough decade for our guy, Cubes.

Speaker 1 And now he's trying to distance himself desperately from the Luca trade. And he'll do any interview and talk about how he can't believe, and oh my God, I had no idea.

Speaker 1 It's like, you did sell the team to these dudes. This is your fault.

Speaker 1 Just like it was Howard Schultz's fault when he sold the sonics to these dudes from oklahoma city who were clearly going to move them cubans sold the mavericks to these guys and they obviously don't know what they're doing and they traded luka doncic which is the most insane thing that's happened in the nba this century other than maybe they are test melee hey just full transparency have you tried to get him on

Speaker 1 no i i had him on a couple years ago

Speaker 1 You haven't requested him on recently? No. Last year.
Why? Well, I thought maybe with the self-defense.

Speaker 1 Honestly, I don't want to. I'm not that interested in somebody giving interviews about how they wouldn't have traded Luka Doncic if they still own the team.
It's like, well, you sold the team.

Speaker 1 I want to see. Why'd you sell the team? I know we're doing sliding doors, but we need to stay on this because there's a bunch of things that you said that I totally agree with.

Speaker 1 But I've also noticed the podcast that he's going on.

Speaker 1 Is he going on with podcasts knowing that sports guys that know the story a little bit better wouldn't hammer him on it? Right, right.

Speaker 1 Because it's like, hey, when you sold the team, again, if the Mavs go for $4 billion in Dallas. It wasn't $4 billion.
It was $3.5.

Speaker 1 It's like, it might have been less. But if the Celtics go for 6.1, the Mavs should have gone for higher.
Yes. It's my opinion.
They own their arena. They own their arena.

Speaker 1 It's a top eight or nine market in the league.

Speaker 1 And they had Luka Doncic, who's worth a billion dollars by himself for value, no question.

Speaker 1 Right.

Speaker 1 And then, which so many NBA teams, and I just heard McMahon on with Wind Horse and Bontemps on this, and he was talking about just the wording of the transition of the front office of like, okay, this group is buying it, but I am going to run this team.

Speaker 1 And there's all these very specific quotes about how

Speaker 1 Cuban's going to keep running it. I don't know.
Was that to a

Speaker 1 fan base? Nobody believed it.

Speaker 1 Nobody who actually was in basketball circles believed that that's how it was going to be played out. And by the way, we're going through the same thing now with Wick Wick and the new owner.

Speaker 1 Unless that's in writing, that he is going to be the governor for the next three years and that's part of the sale. I don't know if he's going to last two years, one year.

Speaker 1 We have no idea. But see, that's, I want to stay on it because this is exactly where I wanted to go because

Speaker 1 McMahon was using like quotes and they were all like, they all sound ridiculous less than a year later of Cuban go, okay, this is how it's going to be handled.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, I'm going to run all these different things. And as I'm saying, we made fun of it in the moment on this podcast.

Speaker 1 And there were so many people around the NBA being like, why does he keep saying this? Like, this is definitely not going to happen. And it's exactly how it played out.

Speaker 1 So when the Celtics sale was announced, which I want to ask you more about, the first thing I thought about in that press release was, I wonder what isn't true in this.

Speaker 1 Now, maybe they're telling the truth. Maybe.

Speaker 1 And I still think, despite some of the blips that you're hammering Cuban here for, I think it's a much better track record than a lot of the other options that you've had.

Speaker 1 Like you look at long-term ownership, there's no way you're giving Cuban a failing great at owning the Mavs. No, he's unbelievable.

Speaker 1 I think he's one of the most important NBA owners of the 21st century. He's in the top three.

Speaker 1 And he had a great, great first two decades. I'm just saying

Speaker 1 the stretch here starting with Brunson to the end, it's really bad for him. It gets mentioned in the first paragraph of everything about this.
And he has to.

Speaker 1 Jalen Brunson signing with the Knicks is not in the first paragraph for whatever Cuban.

Speaker 1 No, I'm saying what happened to the Mavs over the course to where they are now, where their fan fan base is in a full revolt with the team,

Speaker 1 I don't know. He's got to get some blame for that.
He does. And

Speaker 1 don't sell the team to these people who obviously didn't know what they were doing. If, you know, and then be like, oh, I never would have traded him.
Like, I thought you loved the Mavericks.

Speaker 1 I thought you loved their fans. I thought you loved Luca.
Like, that's crazy. That's crazy to say that after the fact.
You have to take some blame. I should have vetted these guys better.

Speaker 1 I wish I hadn't sold the team. He didn't do any of it.
He's just been like, I never would have done it. Cool.
Guess what? You don't have Luka Dotschinsch anymore.

Speaker 1 Or the Mavs. There are some memes going around that are like a reminder of Mike Tarico's greatest lesson that he ever shared with me:

Speaker 1 the points you don't make make the points you do make that much stronger, which is still something I struggle with, but it's really good. Like, if you have

Speaker 1 one point,

Speaker 1 like sell it, but don't sell it with point five, six, seven that aren't really as strong and almost hurt the strength of

Speaker 1 one, two, three, and four to hammer home your point. So, hey, Luca's gone.
So, it was like the Mavs fumble. Have you seen this meme? So, it's Luca, and then it's Brunson, and then it's Grimes, who

Speaker 1 single-handedly is like screwing up some of these lottery odds for the Sixers. But then it's Przingis, who, by the way, they couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there.
And that did that trade again.

Speaker 1 Derek Jones Jr. was over there, and you're like, okay, well, I I mean, you know,

Speaker 1 he's a nice player, but there's just some dudes in that picture where I'm like, actually, you're, you're kind of ruining the point, but you just thought it would look better with seven players instead of just three.

Speaker 1 Do you believe the transition plan for the Celtics and Wick? Because I could see where a group comes in and goes, Wick has been, again, I think on that short list, we know that he's cared.

Speaker 1 We know that I think he gets it in the way that fans would want your owner to get it. They have always spent money when they've had to spend money.

Speaker 1 They're staring down the barrel of this massive tax bill, which I think would be sort of weird for Wick to go, like, hey, now that you have to pay this bill, I would recommend not trading any of these players and keeping this window open.

Speaker 1 Let's give Kate a $10 million a year.

Speaker 1 No, here's what I believe. I think it's very possible, and I don't know for sure,

Speaker 1 that part of the conditions when they got to the final four were like, we're going to consider the bids or favor the bids that Wick is in there for three years as the governor in the transition.

Speaker 1 And if you can get to like 6 billion and you have that in there, you're going to have a better chance.

Speaker 1 And there might have been some of the other bids that were like, all right, our offer is 5'8 and we take over the team immediately.

Speaker 1 I just don't know if that's in there or not. And I don't know if this is Cuban 2.0 where it's like, no, no, he's going to run the team.
And then nine months from now, the new guy's like, hey, Wick.

Speaker 1 I took your court side seats. So I moved you over.
You're going to be in a suite from now on. And all the stuff that happened to Cuban, we knew the Cuban thing was done.

Speaker 1 And I can't remember if we talked about it or not when he wasn't involved with the Western Conference trophy presentation and all that stuff.

Speaker 1 And then there was stuff that you were hearing during the finals about they wouldn't let him sit, you know, they wouldn't give him the court sides.

Speaker 1 He was scrambling to sit courtside and the team only gets two. And

Speaker 1 there was just a lot of buzz that, oh, he didn't play this one correctly.

Speaker 1 I don't know what the

Speaker 1 or it was played the way it's supposed to be played. Is it where somebody writes you a check for billions?

Speaker 1 Guess what? They want to own the team. That's why I have no idea

Speaker 1 where we're going with the Celtics. What was your last sliding door? Because we're almost done with this segment.

Speaker 1 If Luca is drafted by Atlanta and he stays with the Hawks, does that mean no Dyson Daniels?

Speaker 1 I didn't know you had a Luca one. So I had another Luka one with Atlanta.
I don't know how different it really is. He's probably still on Atlanta.
Trey is with Dallas.

Speaker 1 They likely don't have a finals run in 24.

Speaker 1 But I don't know.

Speaker 1 That one's not nearly as exciting as the Luca one that you did with everything else. So why don't you just share your last one that you think? I'll just rip through really quick.

Speaker 1 The What If Dame goes to Miami is fun because I love this one. It has a whole bunch of ramifications.
Miami offered Hero, Lowry, and 28 and 31sts.

Speaker 1 Phoenix, if this all happens, Phoenix, the

Speaker 1 DeAndre Ayton and Kamara for Nurkic and Allen, that trade doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 An Eighton trade probably happens, though.

Speaker 1 Rip, but I'm not positive Grayson Allen's in it because that was part of

Speaker 1 trying to get Dame.

Speaker 1 And they had to move money off and put Grayson Allen somewhere. Who knows? The Bucs don't lose Drew to the Celtics.

Speaker 1 They get

Speaker 1 a 29-first and swaps in 28-30.

Speaker 1 Portland,

Speaker 1 Portland ends up getting, they trade Drew to Boston for Brogdon Williams, a 24 Golden State first and a 29 Boston first.

Speaker 1 Basically, what I wrote down is every team is worse off except Portland and Boston. The Bucs are worse off with

Speaker 1 Dame and the fact that it didn't elevate them the way they thought, even though Dame's been, I think, good this year. Dame's been better offensively this year.
There's no

Speaker 1 comparison. I test wise, he's looked really good.
Stats are good. Heat are way worse off.

Speaker 1 Phoenix is worse off.

Speaker 1 So, yeah, it's just a weird one.

Speaker 1 I would hope the Celtics win the title as the biggest sliding door from that. Yeah, let's stay.
What if they do the Miami deal? Does that mean Butler gets extended?

Speaker 1 Does it mean that Miami's still in the mix? Does it mean that Butler's happy? Does it mean that Golden State has no other option?

Speaker 1 I think if you do that dame trade, you then have to do the extension with Jimmy because you can't do all that and then not have a Jimmy relationship. You don't think Miami wouldn't just

Speaker 1 like, hey, we'll just run it to free agency, see what's out there for you.

Speaker 1 I don't know. I don't think you can, you can't give up all that for Dame and be like, we're trying to win right now.
Also, I didn't factor in whatever happened to Bam Adabayo in the last year.

Speaker 1 What happened?

Speaker 1 Why isn't he an impactful top 20 guy anymore? Does if Dame's on that team, is he?

Speaker 1 Well, having another like all-NBA, not that Dame's making all-NBA this year, but

Speaker 1 having somebody like his shot making would certainly

Speaker 1 be a lot easier. I mean, they're a mess right now.
It makes man better. It makes Butler, if he's happy, and they took care of him in extension, and they might be a contender.
So that's a good one.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I think there's some assumptions in that, though. Like, what if Dame comes in, gets his 30, isn't playing defense,

Speaker 1 and it becomes a son situation? It's not

Speaker 1 Miami Suns.

Speaker 1 Like you just assumed a lot about what they would be doing in the East.

Speaker 1 I don't know.

Speaker 1 I think they would have taken care of Butler in that scenario. So I think they feel like it's two guys now.
All right, fine. Then let's say it's Butler and Dame

Speaker 1 with fans. No hero.
Is that a top six team in the East right now?

Speaker 1 I think they might have thought thought it was, but you're right. It might have been a sun situation where the league got way deeper and this recipe you had for a big three

Speaker 1 didn't make as much sense in 25 as it did now. I think it would have helped them more last year.

Speaker 1 Also, it might have helped them get some

Speaker 1 buyout dudes. And

Speaker 1 who knows? Bio guys are so overrated. I think they would have struggle, trouble against Boston.
A couple more quick ones. What if Ishbi doesn't have new owner syndrome?

Speaker 1 Because he did that KD for Bridges, Cam, Crowder, four firsts, and a swap.

Speaker 1 It also led to the second Beal trade, which saved what he basically saved Washington and saved Brooklyn with those two trades. So that's got to be thrown in there.

Speaker 1 What if the Udoka scandal never happens?

Speaker 1 Do the Celtics win in 23?

Speaker 1 What happens to the Rockets? Does any of this even matter? Did it all play out exactly the way it should have played out? Is he still second Roe Joe to you guys?

Speaker 1 He might be third Row Joe.

Speaker 1 What if Danny just doesn't blow up the jazz in 22 coming off a 49-33 season when they lost to Dallas because Luca was hurt half the series, but Brunson went nuts and it seemed like, what is this?

Speaker 1 This team's broken. Jalen Brunson just lit them up, but nobody knew he was Jalen Brunson yet.

Speaker 1 And then they end up making those two massive trades to Cleveland and to Minnesota and basically create these new,

Speaker 1 you know, real contenders. Yeah, totally.
For two other teams. I imagine Mitchell would have started getting loud i think at some point yeah i don't think that was going to be up to just utah

Speaker 1 what if golden state takes lamello and franz in those two drafts again stupid no it isn't stupid because i know but i mean it's like this is like in a draft you could do this and all the time but it is there is this alternate universe where they take lamello and they take franz Did they win the 22 title at that point?

Speaker 1 Maybe they don't. Are they better now? Maybe they are.
I don't know. It's just Steph retire.

Speaker 1 Steph's like, I'm done. I'm out.

Speaker 1 Does LaMelo fit in their system? Did they trade him within a year?

Speaker 1 Does Lamello, does he actually look like a future Hall of Famer? 16, 17 a game, wide open threes all the time. Yes.
Passing over the top.

Speaker 1 Like, could LaMelo actually, I know he's a stat-filling guy, but would he look like a really amazing

Speaker 1 complimentary, fun, winning player?

Speaker 1 I will say, Comingo over Franz, which I think was argued really extensively in Golden States side. And the whole case for Franz was he's an IQ guy, he's movement, he fits into what we do.

Speaker 1 That just would have been a better pick for them. I had Bob Myers on and talked about that pick after and then was like, who would you have taken then?

Speaker 1 Because I was like, it just Kaminga felt like the competition he was going up against.

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 he was like, well, who would you have taken? I go, it's totally unfair for me to say, like, after Franz has had the start to his career that, oh, you should have taken Franz.

Speaker 1 So we came to some kind of agreement with that. But I think it's a lot like these conversations that the guys will have.

Speaker 1 And they go, okay, but if it's a lot like the Jalen Brown thing with H, if with this body type and this kind of athleticism, is there enough there that we see that we can build on that this could be like a really special perimeter player where you're taking him?

Speaker 1 That's what I think breaks a lot of ties in these war rooms. And then we look back being like, how do those guys fuck that one up?

Speaker 1 I think they finally realized that the...

Speaker 1 that they, as long as Steph and Draymond were on the team, hoops IQ had to be the number one thing.

Speaker 1 Maybe they struggled with that for a couple of years. Two more quick ones.
This is just a funny one. What are you saying about Wiseman and Kaminga?

Speaker 1 What if COVID never happened?

Speaker 1 And I went back and I looked at the standings, and I remembered, and I actually listened to like 10 minutes of a pod we did that Sunday before COVID of the Lakers finally beat the Clippers.

Speaker 1 And we did a pod about what does this mean to the Lakers? And say, like, but the Clippers had already beaten them twice.

Speaker 1 But the Lakers, when COVID happens, the Lakers are 49 and 14 they're number one in the west the clippers are 44 and 20 and the nuggets are 43 and 22 so and those were going to be our three teams basically milwaukee was 53 and 12

Speaker 1 and yannis was about to win his second mvp

Speaker 1 and milwaukee i i just forgot this milwaukee was like That was the big obstacle. That was the one.
And then it was like LA versus LA. And then here's Giannis over here.

Speaker 1 And how is this going to play out? And COVID happens. They come back and Giannis gets hurt in the first round, and that's how Miami jumps in.
The Clippers completely fall apart in the bubble.

Speaker 1 So, COVID never happens. I don't know what happens that season, but it's probably Milwaukee or the two LA teams.
I think the title comes from one of those three.

Speaker 1 I think it would have been way better for the Clippers.

Speaker 1 Here's my last one. This is just for you because

Speaker 1 this is like the ultimate dumb sliding door thing. What if Philly doesn't bail on Al Horford after one year?

Speaker 1 It was such a bad fit, though, with Embiid. It just didn't work.

Speaker 1 Can I give you the trades? Yeah, because they had to get. Well, this pick, by the way, that we talked about before.
November,

Speaker 1 November 2020, coming out of the bubble season, heading to the next season. Daryl has just taken over,

Speaker 1 and Horford's got three years left on his deal. They trade him with Maladone, Miechich,

Speaker 1 and a 25-first for Danny Green.

Speaker 1 That That was the trade.

Speaker 1 They put OKC, they put OKC puts Horford on ice for a year.

Speaker 1 They trade him to the Celtics for Kemba in the 16th pick.

Speaker 1 What happens to the 16th pick?

Speaker 1 They pass on Shengun and Trey Murphy with the pick they get from Horford and trade it to Houston for two heavily protected Detroit Washington picks.

Speaker 1 That was kind of a bad trade, but they just could have taken Shangoon or Trey Murphy. Celtics make the 22 finals with Worford.
They win the 24 title with Worford.

Speaker 1 And Philly is now tanking in 25 to keep this pick that they gave up because they decided Al Horford was a bad fit with Joelle and Biad. Who doesn't fucking play?

Speaker 1 Guess who you needed a backup center for? Joellen Bede.

Speaker 1 Tough one.

Speaker 1 Tough one, but it was ugly and you felt like at the time it was worth moving. They had to do something.
Yeah, because it was. What's crazier is that Al Horford had negative value.

Speaker 1 They're like you got to take if you take al horford

Speaker 1 i need i need i you also have to throw in a pick

Speaker 1 you got to take this guy back that's how bad it was and now he's like one of the most beloved celtic teammates probably ever yeah right because it's two transactions there where it's a negative because you're getting off of kembo's disastrous thing but you're including the pick to take him back I'm just so glad that Al got that second act in Boston because it was this

Speaker 1 deal where, you know, he's just not going to be appreciated the right way when he's signed at a max contract, but it's so hard to sign any free agents.

Speaker 1 Like, you should be thrilled, especially at the time and age that Horford was at. It's like you can get this guy.
Like, I hope he says yes to our max offer.

Speaker 1 And then, you know, look, the counting stats aren't going to be good enough for a lot of fans when it's Al Horford.

Speaker 1 And then for him to extend it this far, like even a couple of years ago, I'm like, when is this thing going to be over? Like, can you really ask to run him this way?

Speaker 1 And I mean, thank God for Hortford because without him, I really wonder what they would look like to have that kind of insurance against Przingis where

Speaker 1 you need somebody who's really good to play all those games that you know Przingis is going to miss.

Speaker 1 You know, it would have been a fun, I mentioned, forgot to mention one other what if with ifs.

Speaker 1 The Hortford trade doesn't exist for the Celtics. They're stuck with Kemba for one more year.

Speaker 1 But they take Trey Murphy with the 16th pick, who's kind of like the perfect interchangeable swing to come in.

Speaker 1 That's another one.

Speaker 1 What ifs? Those are our favorite ones.

Speaker 1 Somehow we went for almost two hours, so we don't have to do the thing at the top of the podcast. I think we're good with the pod.
March Madness, I'm sure you're enjoying it.

Speaker 1 Not really. Not really? Okay.
No, not with St. John's.
Most anticipation I've had for St. John's in 25 years.
I already told that story about St. John's last Sunday.

Speaker 1 I did not leave my apartment and leave guests behind this time around. I knew that shooting thing was probably going to really hurt him.

Speaker 1 I didn't expect that it was going to happen in the second game against Arkansas, but Lewis was just really bad. And you could even see at some point Edgefort grab him and be like, you need to wake up.

Speaker 1 You need to wake up. So I think on the whole, you need to look at it this way.
If you're a St. John's fan, you've had nothing to be this excited about for a quarter century.

Speaker 1 Petino is everything and that, as advertised, considering he's won everywhere he's gone. So it's disappointing, but they won the Big East.
They beat Yukon twice. They're back on the map.

Speaker 1 They're likely only going to get better until Patino probably gets back into, like, you know, who knows what job is open to him. You never know because Patino will just take him.

Speaker 1 But if he's content, wants to stay in St. John's, I think that they'll be even better.

Speaker 1 So it was a really fun season for a program that, you know, at some point during every year when I would watch him, I wouldn't really talk about it all that much.

Speaker 1 I just wanted to enjoy it as a fan because there's very few things that I still have in my life that are just about, hey, this is going to be a fan experience. I don't really have to talk about it.

Speaker 1 I'm not breaking down St. John's after a bunch of those games.

Speaker 1 It brought me so much joy this year to feel like you were a part of it again, the way I did when I was a kid, the way I was in college, the way I was in my 20s,

Speaker 1 that there's just too many positives for me to be too upset about losing to Arkansas.

Speaker 1 Because

Speaker 1 they also can't shoot. They were like 340s out of 364 teams.
So you knew this game was coming. Again, I didn't think it'd be after one round.

Speaker 1 Do you think he should have done the press conference after and done the. Chris Mollin's not walking through that door, St.
John's fans.

Speaker 1 Bill Willington's not walking through that door.

Speaker 1 Walter Barrett's not walking through that door. And if he did, he'd be old and gray.
I would imagine a lot of guys are going to be walking through that door, though.

Speaker 1 And if they had had, if they had one, even a bench guy who was a five who could stretch the floor a little bit,

Speaker 1 you know, I know Florida just escaped UConn today. Could have been my guy, Brady Dunlop.

Speaker 1 Yeah, I know. He got hurt.

Speaker 1 Yeah, they're missing. I'm sure he'll just recruit two shooters now.

Speaker 1 He's going to stay for a little while because I think it became a real thing in New York.

Speaker 1 And I think he's smart enough to realize at the point of his career that he's been in, where he's basically done everything and he's made a shitload of money.

Speaker 1 Like, why not try to be the king of New York for one more year? Because I think he's one of the most crazy competitive people ever.

Speaker 1 I think there's another level to him that's even beyond like the most competitive people that you know.

Speaker 1 I mean, nobody's ever resigned from as much money as he had at stake with the Celtics, where he's just like, I resign. You can have the money back.

Speaker 1 That never happens ever. It's like

Speaker 1 negotiated a buyout for three weeks. He's like, I'm out.
Here's my facts.

Speaker 1 But

Speaker 1 I don't know, man. I've just seen it too many times.
I've seen it too many times with him where he's just like, okay, what's the next challenge?

Speaker 1 And

Speaker 1 I think that's just kind of the way he's wired. It doesn't even matter how old he is because the guy is arguably the greatest college basketball coach of his era.

Speaker 1 You know, I know there can be arguments made for other people, but I mean, this guy went to Greece after Louisville, and you were like, okay, we're never going to hear from this guy again.

Speaker 1 And then he shows up because Iona's like, we'll do it.

Speaker 1 And then he wins. He should have been really cross.
In two years, he has St. John's as a two-seat and winning the Big East.
So, yeah.

Speaker 1 Look, man, I would think there'd be a lot of people that would want to go there. The New York thing for St.
John's has always been a little difficult because you'd always think this is automatic.

Speaker 1 But then, for the longest time, the New York kids actually didn't want to go there. They wanted to go somewhere else.
The setup wasn't necessarily that great.

Speaker 1 The NIL part of it, you know, you can get into the USC thing. Like, why wouldn't

Speaker 1 Musk be able to just get whoever he wanted to in LA and the marketability of LA and SC and all that stuff? And it's like, man, I actually think it's a little bit more complicated.

Speaker 1 I'd also argue the SC campus situation is better than maybe St. John's over the years.

Speaker 1 But I don't care. Like, I'm not, I was bummed out they lost, but I was so happy about this year that I'm going to let that part of it.
I think there could be some kind of memo to Spike Lee, though.

Speaker 1 Like, we're good.

Speaker 1 We don't need you decked out in St. John's gear.

Speaker 1 Spike, can we talk?

Speaker 1 Yes. Just lay back.

Speaker 1 You don't get enough attention.

Speaker 1 The Knicks think has been great for Spike.

Speaker 1 Yeah.

Speaker 1 He didn't need another team. He didn't need to add a second one.

Speaker 1 There's no way he was rooting for St. John's or to play in Georgetown, is my guess.

Speaker 1 Very possible.

Speaker 1 Rosillo, back on your pod on Tuesday?

Speaker 1 Yeah. Yeah, we're doing.

Speaker 1 I don't know what we're doing.

Speaker 1 All right, well,

Speaker 1 I'll see you in Boston, Massachusetts

Speaker 1 this week because we are doing

Speaker 1 a live rewatchable show. Which one am I doing? What time? We're doing Goodwill Hunting.
Thursday. Thursday, what time is the theater open? Thursday

Speaker 1 at night. It's sold out.

Speaker 1 It's at House of Blues. We're doing that.
And then I'm making you come to at least a couple Coolidge Corner theater.

Speaker 1 You got to come to it. You got to come see like Heat or Goodfellas or one of those movies, The Town.
You got to go see one of them in a theater with us.

Speaker 1 I got so nervous when somebody sent me the itinerary and they're like, They want me to do The Town again. I go, I'm not doing that.
No, I don't know. I'm never doing that.

Speaker 1 We're just in Google Holding on Thursday. I was on the rewatchables this week.
So I got that coming up in the schedule. Right.

Speaker 1 We had a category in the rewatchables called blind call to Rasillo. And every time we called, you didn't answer because you never answer your phone.

Speaker 1 And then this time I did the call and Van goes, Call back, call second time. Or Craig said that.
Maybe he hit his second time, maybe to go through. Called, you answered, and you did

Speaker 1 about a minute on blue chips. It was great.

Speaker 1 I was in the car too. All right.
I'll see you in Boston. See you.
All right. That's it for the podcast.
Thanks to Brascillo. Thanks to Sarudi and Gahau and Kyle.

Speaker 1 As always, don't forget about Prestige TV tonight doing a podcast episode on White Lotus episode six. New rewatchables coming on Monday.
We did blue chips, Celtic City on HBO and on Max 9 p.m.

Speaker 1 Monday night.

Speaker 1 The first bird episode. We're going into the 80s.
As you can tell, I enjoyed it.

Speaker 1 And then on this podcast, I'm definitely going to be having a podcast on Tuesday. Not sure about Thursday yet.
So at least Tuesday, you're going to have me. I will see you on Tuesday.

Speaker 1 I don't have

Speaker 1 feelings with him

Speaker 1 on the wayside on the bruison liberal.

Speaker 1 I don't have

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