Why Marvel Fans Are Outraged at the New Captain America | Episode 5

it makes sense that people would feel sensitive to somebody rejecting or dismissing the values that we believe make our country great, that we have spent years fighting for, and that are also back in action in 2025. I mean, the golden age of America.
And so to hear somebody rejecting that or being anti-American right now feels like such a betrayal. Welcome back to another episode of The Red Cooper Show.
Now, as you guys know, I was at the inauguration a couple of weeks ago. Not at the inauguration because obviously it was moved inside and unlike the Paul brothers and Conor McGregor, I was not invited into the Capitol, even though that would have been a crazy group to be around.
But the inauguration happened. It was historical.
There was so much joy throughout DC. It was just crazy to see.

And I feel like we have been experiencing that joy for the last couple of weeks.

And I really love talking about the joy because our joy is actually authentic. Our joy is genuine and based on something that is real, unlike Kamala Harris's joy that she faked for basically her entire campaign.
But I really think that there is something so special about the beginnings of this new Trump presidency, the new Trump admin, and the now golden age of America. And I've been trying to put my finger on what is so exciting and exhilarating and joyful about it.
And obviously, seeing the policies that we voted for come to fruition is very exciting and feels very redeeming, but it also feels bigger than that. And in my opinion, kind of what I've landed on as I've been thinking about this is that it's the fact that we are taking back our country and we are now deciding how it is defined on the world stage.
We are being proactive rather than just reactionary. Because for the last 20 years or so, Hollywood and journalists have been the ones who have decided and directed how we are represented on the world stage.
They've been telling a bulk of the country who we are and what we represent. Whether that is, you know, racists or bigots or war criminals or uneducated, whatever it may be, it has been coming from them.
But now things are starting to change in a more positive light, or so I hope. If you want to check out our new merch collection, we have those links below.
And if you want ad-free episodes, weekly advice videos, and an exclusive newsletter, make sure to check out my subscriber-only platform, Cooper Confidential. It is at cooperconfidential.supercast.com.
We will also have that link in the description below. Now, obviously, it is not just Hollywood and journalists' fault for the ways that we have been represented and the images that have been portrayed of modern America, because, of course, our politicians have also helped further those narratives on the world stage.
And amidst all of the chaos and the division and the hatred and the vitriol, it really felt like we had lost sight of what America is supposed to be, what we fought for almost 250 years ago. And so with real genuine joy and class and strength back in charge, there seems to be a sense of relief and genuine patriotism that so many people have not felt for so many years.
And I think, in my opinion, that is why so many people lost their minds and got so angry with what the actor Anthony Mackie had to say about the term America. Now, if you guys have not followed this story, Anthony Mackie is an actor.
He is playing the new Captain America. He is most well known for his career in the MCU.
I think he is one of the longest running actors in the MCU. But there is a new Captain America movie coming out in 2025.
It is called Captain America Brave New World. And he has been doing a huge press tour for that.
And a couple of weeks ago, he was doing an interview. And somebody asked him about Captain America and its connections to America the country.
And this is what he had to say. Just listen.
For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things, and I don't think the term, you know, America should be one of those representations. Like, it's about a man who keeps his word, who has honor, dignity, and integrity.
Someone who is trustworthy and dependable. That does not sound great.
So basically what we got from that is that the beloved Captain America represents a lot of things, a lot of objectively good values, but America, the term, is not one of them. Got it.
You know, I guess that we do not represent integrity and trustworthiness and always doing the right thing in honesty. Not America, in Anthony Mackie's mind.
People on X and on TikTok, they lost their damn minds. There were clips of this going viral.
I mean, mega, mega viral. And it immediately sparked a debate between the left and the right because the right was angry because it felt like he was crapping on America and he was saying that we do not have good values and that he didn't want Captain America to be linked in with our great country.
And people on the left were immediately pushing back and going, no, it's like an awful country. We just elected Trump.
Why would he want it to represent Captain America? We all just started freaking fighting per usual. One headline reads, Captain America fans defend Anthony Mackie from Trump supporters.
He is right. I also just think it's hysterical that anybody who defends America as a country and our founding beliefs is automatically labeled a Trump supporter.
Like these accounts that were commenting these things, they did not have like MAGA in their bio. It was tons of different people.
But of course, the mainstream media is like, Trump supporters! They love the country! You must be a- Oh, God. It's, like, so old at this point.
Like, please find a new narrative. And I had a similar response, like, many people online being like, ugh, I mean, that's unfortunate.
Here's another movie going down the drain, I guess. This is unfortunate.
But then I looked into it more. I read more I read the comments as I do I mean it basically seemed like people cared more about the political wins than they did about actually going deeper and understanding the context of the video and of the issue that they were discussing and for those of us who do want to push through the noise and actually go deeper we need Peterson Academy because that is exactly what they strive to do and if you didn't know Peterson Academy is Dr.
Jordan Peterson's new online university that is open for enrollment right now. And so if you are somebody who loves lifelong learning, that does want to go deeper and push beyond the headlines, if you are somebody who has ever benefited from any of Jordan's lectures, from any of the incredible guests that he's had on his podcast, Peterson Academy is 100% for you.
And every month, Peterson Academy is releasing four new eight-hour university-level courses taught by world-renowned experts, and they're produced to keep you engaged. So this is not your normal college class.
They cover an incredible range of topics from politics to psychology to statistics to storytelling and Shakespeare, all the way to nutrition. They truly want to provide a well-rounded education, and they even have optional testing to further your understanding of the subjects that you're studying.
There's also a built-in social component of Peterson Academy so that you can connect and learn alongside like-minded people around the world. And on top of all of that, they are continuously releasing new features to make this the best platform that it can be.
So if you are ready to take control of your education, to broaden your horizons, to explore new subjects, it is time for you to go to petersonacademy.com slash brett. Peterson Academy is $599 a year or $59 a month to access all 31 eight-hour courses, plus those four new courses that are coming every single month, plus the social community and a seven-day money-back guarantee.
And to me, the best part is for that price, you are not having to take out a $60,000 student loan to continue your education. So again, that is petersonacademy.com slash Brett to join Peterson Academy today.
They will help you go deeper. They will give you the tools that you need to critically think about the world around you, especially in situations like this when it goes crazy on social media.
And I noticed that some of the people who were pushing back weren't necessarily wrong. And these were not the finger waggers and the pointers and the people who were making it a right versus left thing.
They were just talking about Captain America in general in the history. And to their point, Anthony Mackie might not be entirely wrong either, because this is not really a new take on Captain America.
It's not that Captain America rejects America entirely, but it is that he is bigger than just one country, which is exactly what Chris Evans said back in 2011. So this is not the first time that an actor playing Captain America has expressed this sentiment.
In 2011, Chris Evans said, well, to me, I'm not trying to get too lost in the American side of it. This is not a flag-waving movie.
It is red, white, and blue, but it just so happens that the character was created in America during wartime when there was a common enemy, even though it is Captain America. I've said before in interviews, it feels more like he should just be called Captain Good.
You know, he was created at a time where there was this undeniable evil, and this guy was kind of created to fight that evil. I think that everyone could agree that Nazis were bad, and he, Cap, just so happens to wear the red, white, and blue.
So again, he's saying, you know, not a patriotic movie, not a America movie, but it's a movie about aspirational ideals and objective good. And this person is supposed to embody these ideals that could be relatable to any individual, should be aspirational to somebody, no matter what country you live in, no matter what your background is, you should be able to see the good in the superhero.

And as even more people pointed out,

if you go back even further in history of Captain America,

this is what is actually said in the Captain America comics.

This is the comic right here, but I'll read it to you.

He says, listen to me, all of you out there,

you were told by this man, your hero,

that America is the greatest country in the world.

He told you that Americans were the greatest people,

that America could be refined like silver,

could have the impurities hammered out of it

and shine more brightly.

He went on about how precious America was and how you needed to make sure it remained great. And he told you that anything was justified to preserve that pearl of the great price that is America.
Well, I say that America is nothing. Without its ideals, its commitment to the freedom of all men, America is a piece of trash.
A nation is nothing. A flag is a piece of cloth.
I fought Adolf Hitler, not because America was great, but because it was fragile. I knew that liberty could be easily snuffed out here as in Nazi Germany, as people were no different than them.
When I returned, I saw that you nearly did turn America into nothing. I mean, this is deep for a comic.
This is a lot more nuanced than Anthony Mackie was in his little quip. It's a lot deeper than what Chris Evans was trying to communicate, but you can kind of connect the dots on what they were basing their responses on based on the history of this character and what he said in the comics and what he has done in all these other movies.
I especially love this last paragraph where it talks about America being fragile. I mean, that's something that we have discussed consistently over the last couple of years, the driving force with getting someone like Trump back in office so that he could steer us

onto the right track because we are so fragile,

because we have seen our country be almost destroyed

and we could not let that happen.

We are not immune to tyranny.

We are not immune to terrible ideas and victimhood

and bad ideology and communism.

We have gotten so close to having that here,

which is why we have to fight for the ideals

that this country was founded on.

And while I agree with that second paragraph,

I'm going to be a little bit more of a- and bad ideology and communism. We have gotten so close to having that here, which is why we have to fight for the ideals that this country was founded on.

And while I agree with that second paragraph,

I do kind of disagree with the first paragraph

where he says that America can't be great,

that it cannot be fixed and have the blemishes removed.

I do believe that we can get to that point.

I think that we are certainly on our way right now.

This is a discussion about what it means

to have ideals and beliefs and values that drive the foundation of a country and what happens when those ideals get forgotten and trampled out and what it means to fight to get that back and to have a love of country and a love of ideals, but maybe not love where we are right now. And I think it's ideologically wrong for people to get angry at somebody saying that America isn't perfect or that they don't love America right now because we've done that.
Like obviously people on the left are going to be unhappy with what is happening in Trump's America. They're going to be angry and afraid.
I've tried to address that and quell some of those fears, but it's dishonest to say that we haven't done that. I've certainly done that over the last four years.
Like this country's doomed. Authoritarianism.
Biden is running it into the ground. And while there's a difference between criticizing the current state of America and what's going on and criticizing its ideals, I really don't think Anthony Mackie was concerning himself with clarifying anything or having any nuance.
Like, I'm sorry, but he's an actor doing a press tour. I don't really think he's thought about this very deeply.
And so it might not be all Anthony Mackie's fault. Like, I genuinely do not even know if he knew what he was trying to say, especially when you hear what he said after the end of that quote at the end of this clip.
This is kind of like a an aspect of a dream coming true. You know, when I was a kid, you know, all of us as actors, I believe, want to get back to that day before someone told you no.
When you look out your door and you see a five-year-old kid with a stick and he's slaying dragons to save the princess in the tower, that kid really believes there are dragons out there. That stick is really a sword and he's really trying to save that princess.

And then one day somebody told him, no, there are no dragons.

That's not a sword.

And that princess is not there.

And all of his little dreams were dashed.

So, you know, as an actor, I feel like our job is to get back to the day where we see that dragon and we slay that dragon to save that princess. And that's kind of what this movie was for me.
How did that connect with what America represents? Like we went from a very weird quip about Captain America not really representing America and him being bigger than that into a actor's monologue about what it means to be an actor. Like, is he talking about ideals and dreams and how it relates to America? Or did he just completely get off track and he's just talking about what it meant as an actor to do this movie and play a superhero because it felt like he was tapping in to his inner trust? Like, that just doesn't make sense.
I was a child actor. I've been around a lot of actors.
I love actors. I have a fondness for actors.
That was dumb actor speak. That was, he was asked a question.
He tried to answer it. He got off track and he just started going into his little emotional brain talking about his hopes and dreams and what made him want to be an actor, which is like totally fine.
But it just makes me think again that he literally didn't know what he was talking about. He was probably given some PR points about Captain America.
He was told what Chris Evans said. He's probably read the comics at this point, especially because he's been in the MCU for so long.
He's probably trying to express what had been said before, but he screwed it up. He offered no clarity, no substance, and then he turned it into this odd musing on what it means to be an actor and tapping into your inner child.
And also, it's not the first time on this press tour that he has gotten off track and contradicted himself. For instance, at another point in one of these big interviews, he was asked about what it means to be a black man, you know, playing Captain America because obviously they're going to ask that stupid freaking question.
And he completely spoke out of both sides of his mouth. He said, I feel like it is just as important for black kids to see a black Captain America as it is for white kids growing up.
One of my favorite superheroes was green. It wasn't about race or anything.
It was just about him being a good guy trying to do the right thing. It's very important for kids of all races to be able to watch something and have someone to look up to no matter what they look like and see that that package comes with a good human being as opposed to what they've been perceived as by everyone else.
So he sums it up by saying that race doesn't matter. You know, he could be green and love him, but also it's very important for little black kids to see him play this role and that everybody needs to see representation.
Like I genuinely think that he's just making all of this up as he goes. I think that he is just rambling and trying to find his way.
And as somebody who does get interviewed and has to do press, sometimes that happens. Like sometimes I will sit down for an interview.
Somebody will ask me a question and it takes me a good five minutes to get there. Like I do the Donald Trump weave of like, I want to figure out how I'm going to get there.
But he's doing this on a world stage and people are only clipping out small moments. And to be fair, even though we kind of talked his way around the issue, he is right that color shouldn't matter.
Like color should not matter unless you are evaluating your steaks, which is why I buy from Good Ranchers because they have the highest quality cuts of meat and all of their products are from the U.S. And I know that you might say, Brett, come on, I can go to the grocery store and everything says product of the USA.
Actually, 85% of grass-fed beef that you see in the grocery store is not actually from the United States. And that is because the country of origin law was actually repealed.
So now a meat product does not need to be born, raised, or even harvested in the United States to get that label. It only needs to be packaged in the United States in order to say that it is a product of the United States.
But with good ranchers, when they say that their meat is 100% American, they actually mean it. All of their products are born, raised, harvested, and packaged by local ranchers that keep our communities fed and moving.
And on top of that, these American products are free from hidden additives. No antibiotics ever, no added hormones, no seed oils, just simple ingredients that you can feel good about feeding yourself and your family.
They really make everything more simple, down to the fact that they deliver their products directly to your door. So with GoodRanchers.com, everything that you need to create a delicious meal and feed your family is just a click away.
And as an extra little treat for you guys, if you go to GoodRanchers.com slash Brett, you'll be able to see the special box that I had curated just for you guys. These are all the products that Alex and I literally eat throughout the week, from the pork chops to the brats to the steaks.
These are the products that keep our household moving. And if all of that is not enough to convince you, Good Ranchers is still running their new year new meat promotion, which means that you can subscribe to any box, hopefully the Brett Cooper box, because it's my favorite and it's really good, but subscribe to any box and you can get a year's worth of free meat.
You get to choose from free ground beef, free chicken breast, or free salmon in every single order for an entire year. Plus, you will get $25 off when you use my code BRETT at checkout.
So visit goodranchers.com, use code BRETT at checkout to claim your free meat for an entire year and $25 off. Again, goodranchers.com, $25 off and free meat for an entire year.
That is simple ingredients all the time, transparent packaging, no clarifying statements needed, unlike the clarifying statement that Anthony Mackie had to make. And you know, to his credit, he did make a follow-up statement in an attempt to clarify things.
I mean, who knows whether this was, you know, a PR cleanup job or actually coming from the heart, but he posted this on his story soon after that original video went viral last week. And he said, let me be clear about this.
I'm a proud American and taking on the shield of a hero like Cap is the honor of a lifetime. I have the utmost respect for those who serve and have served our country.
Cap has universal characteristics that people all over the world can relate to. And that last line, if I had to guess, was what he was trying to convey, or maybe he's hoping that people now believe that that was what he was trying to convey, but based on Chris Evans and based on the comics, it seems like that is probably the direction he was trying to take.
And to take this apology and clarification even further, just to give Anthony Mackie some credit, he even tried to shut down rumors that the character of Thaddeus Ross, who becomes Red Hulk, who is being played by Harrison Ford in this new film, was designed in this new film to represent Donald Trump, to be this tyrannical antagonist. They had even at one point, because they've done many iterations of this new Brave New World film, they had even had a previous rewrite where there was like a Jan 6 thing in it.
But then they took it out and they rewrote it because I think they knew the culture was changing. So it seems like they are proactively trying to be more culturally where we are right now and be less politically divisive.
And it seems like that is what Anthony Mackie is trying to do, at least in the aftermath of that viral clip. But I did get ahead of myself.
This is what he said. He said, I hope that as a country, we are tired of all the political jousting.
Let's just go to the movies and chill the F out. We could have made this mother F for yellow and it would have been a problem.
And you know what? Listen, to be fair, he is correct. I think we would all like to chill the F out and just go to the movies, but, you know, Hollywood kind of has to be the one to do it.
So that's actually the part of the quote that rubbed me the wrong way. It's like, yes, yes, we've been wanting that.
We want the political jousting to end. We want to just be able to go to movies.
You guys need to take the steps to make that happen. You need to stop criticizing us at every turn.
You need to stop making antagonist characters out of political leaders based on narratives that you've created in your head based on mainstream media. That needs to happen before we can all get to that point.
And who knows, based on these rewrites, based on the things he's saying, we might be getting to that point. And of course, this could be a PR cleanup job for Marvel and his team, but at least he didn't lean into that original sentiment more, which I think has helped us all greatly.
So that is one side of this viral story that I wanted to discuss, but the other side of it was that in going through all of this and reading all the comments and going back and looking at the comics and going back and looking at what Chris Evans said back in 2011, my prevailing thought was, do we really need to react angrily to everything we see online? Like, is a clip from an actor talking about ridiculous actor things, like the thing that we all need to spend hours getting angry about and I know it's funny to hear that for me because I did a reaction show for three years but that is why I always try to extract substance and be more balanced because people just explode online over nothing over something that could easily be broken down and discussed if you just spent five minutes googling something and reading a couple articles. Seriously, if you had taken five minutes and you had seen a Chris Evans quote and you had seen the comics, I feel like people could have easily noticed that this was basically like a nothing burger.
And of course, you're welcome to be angry at the sentiment that the Captain America comics that Chris Evans and now Anthony Mackie have expressed, that's totally fine. You can believe that it's wrong and believe, you know, America should be represented in a different light or that what they're saying is inherently theoretically wrong.
But I don't think all of this needs to be pinned on Anthony Mackie. I don't think that he is the one that is single-handedly destroying the MCU and destroying Captain America.
Like, if you go back further, this started a long time ago. And that context is important because in my mind, if you are just looking at that video alone, no other context, not looking deeper into the story, that story ends with it just being an actor saying stupid crap.
But of course, if you do want to go deeper, it does beg a bigger question of what does America represent? Can we even be defined by that name, that word alone? We live in a country that has evolved massively over the last 250 years. We are constantly growing and evolving and changing, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse.
Feels like it's been for the worse over the last 10 years. But now, for a large portion of the country, we feel hopeful.
We feel like we are getting back on track, and we should be excited and exhilarated about all of that. So with that feeling in mind and thinking in the context of what Anthony Mackie said, I want to play you this video from a friend of mine.
This is Alma. He immigrated to America.
He went viral on TikTok a couple of years ago, actually talking about what he found so beautiful about America. And he kind of brought this sentiment back in a very gracious and balanced response to this anti-American sentiment.
And there's a chance I will not be able to play you the entire clip thanks to YouTube copyright laws. So go find Alma's TikTok if you want to watch the entire thing, because it really is beautiful.
The reason millions of people come to America is not because we think America is perfect.

It's not because we believe our politicians are above reproach or that we believe this country has no problems with injustice and governmental malfeasance. We come to America because we believe this country is built on a foundation of principles and values secured by a constitution that represents and upholds the right and dignity of every citizen.
And although our past has not always reflected the essence of our foundational beliefs, setting up symbols that represent that ideal is necessary to help us understand and embrace a future that I believe we can all fight for. America is not perfect, but immigrants like me will continue to fight to build a country for the next generation that is worthy of the values and principles that brought me here.
My point in playing that, other than just wanting to uplift Alma, because I think he has a great account and just has great takes, is that I think he hit the nail on the head with what Chris Evans and what the original comics were trying to convey. That yes, it is flawed, but we need these ideals to drive us to fight to keep America as great as it can be, to fight to preserve these values.
And Anthony Mackie just kind of missed the mark. But based on his other comments, it seems like he sort of gets it, but that he was so lost in actor land and wanting to talk about, you know, playing with swords and child experiences that he didn't finish the thought.
So all of that being said, and, you know, in keeping with what Alma just said, it makes sense that people would feel sensitive to somebody rejecting or dismissing the values that we believe make our country great, that we have spent years fighting for, and that are also back in action in 2025. I mean, the golden age of America.
And so to hear somebody rejecting that or being anti-American right now feels like such a betrayal, even though obviously there are people in our country who hate what's going on. But for a lot of people, I think it's like, how could you not love the energy right now? And I understand that.
But of course, we also have to say that after everything we've seen come out of Hollywood over the last 10 to 20 years, like an anti-American sentiment is nothing new. That's probably one of the other reasons why this didn't completely throw me off because I'm like, okay, an actor not loving America, not wanting to represent America, great.
That's like a normal Wednesday in our lives. But I do think, kind of as I mentioned earlier, that Hollywood showing a love of country is making its way back.
Whether that's them cutting out the Jan 6 stuff because they realized that wouldn't play and would actually just make people angry, or whether it's films like Top Gun, Maverick, or Twisters being absolutely massive successes at the box office, speaking not just to their quality, but also to the Americana ideals and values that they represented. Like, I think that that is why those films resonated so much with Americans across the country.
Like, of course, they were great films. They were fun films.
But you left those films feeling an overwhelming sense of pride to be an American. I mean, the nostalgia in both of those films, the independence, the glorification of normal, great, beautiful middle America, of rodeo culture, of our armed servicemen and women.
That is what I remember from both of those films. and going, oh my God I can't believe that Hollywood did that, that they're producing that for us.
And audiences showed up in droves. I mean, talk about giving a mandate to Trump on how to lead the country.
We gave a mandate to Hollywood with those two films of showing what we will show up for and what we're wanting. We don't need you to make a Donald Trump film, to make a conservative Christian film.
No, we just want you to sometimes make a movie that doesn't crap on all of our values, that makes us feel good about the country that we live in. It's really not that difficult of an ask.
And so hopefully, with the changing culture, with everything that we've seen with the election, with these last couple of films, hopefully they are starting to listen. And hopefully Anthony Mackie was just being dumb.
And that Captain America and Brave New World is in line with those films that speak to those ideals that Captain America is supposed to represent, that should represent America, of integrity and independence and trustworthiness and goodness. Hopefully we see that.
Because even I can admit that we are far from perfect a lot of the time, that we have so many things that need to be fixed, that we have flawed systems that need to be completely dismantled and uprooted. But we should still love our country's foundation.
And that doesn't mean that we can't try to be better and live up to those values every single day. Hopefully with the help of superheroes and characters like that.
And I know we like to talk down on Hollywood and say that they're not important, that they're irrelevant, that we don't need them. But stories are important.
Characters like Captain America that drive us to be better, that represent goodness, that teach kids how to be a good leader, how to fight for what's right.

Those are important.

Those are important aspects of our culture and of our society

that should hopefully in an ideal world

make us all want to be better and push our world forward.

And so hopefully that's what happens

in Captain America Brave New World.

But of course, we'll see.