Bugle 281 – One star review

I am rolling hello tea bag

y'all ready for tea

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This is a podcast from thebuglepodcast.com

The Bugle audio newspaper for a visual world

Hello buglers, and welcome to issue 281 of the Bugle audio newspaper for this resolutely visual world with me, Andy Zaltzman, no-time former Miss World contender.

There's real sexism for you.

And the fact that I think that adults of the future might also have counted against me.

I am in the Christmas-stricken city of London.

Tough, tough times for Londoners who are allergic to illuminated streets at the moment.

And in New York...

USA, it's the satirical Santa Claus who drops his prescient presence down the chimneys of charlatans.

charlatans.

It's John Oliver.

Hello, Andy.

Hello, buglers.

Well, Andy, New York here has been all aflutter this week and for good reason.

Because there was f ⁇ ing royalty in finging town.

The traffic here has been terrible.

Snow Biggie here, John.

Snow Biggie when we have royalty in town.

Yeah, well, it's very much a biggie here.

Presumably the traffic's been bad because people have been dropping to their f ⁇ ing knees, Andy, whenever they even get a glimpse of something resembling a motorcade.

On my end, I've been throwing every coat I've ever owned over every puddle I see in the city, just in case Princess Kate may need to daintily walk across a sodden coat.

Oh, who am I kidding, Andy?

She'd never need to do that.

She floats.

She f ⁇ ing floats in and out of every room she's in.

She hovers permanently three inches off the ground, held aloft by the adoration of the entire planet.

The ex-peasant princess visited the city with her husband for a few days and really managed to teach this place what being a vestigial tale of one of history's most inexplicable institutions is really all about.

And what it's about, Andy, is attending things.

Because they attended the shit out of things for 72 solid hours from fundraisers to garlas to memorials to high schools to meetings with the president.

Perhaps the most media attention centered on the night they attended a basketball game in Brooklyn where they saw LeBron James and the Cleveland Cavaliers play the Brooklyn Nets and they sat front row.

And the princess, of course, is famously a gigantic basketball fan.

So was apparently a little disappointed not to see the Knicks, not because they're any good, but because she was interested in seeing the mechanics of an early version of Phil Jackson's triangle offense being run by a team seemingly resistant to its intricacies.

Huge hoopster, Princess Kate.

Apparently, she's had a basketball hoop hung inside the front door of Buckingham Palace just so she can dunk on any visitors when they show up.

She's got a

tattoo of Scotty Pippin as well, I think.

Just behind her left eyelobe.

Huge one.

Yeah.

That's right.

That's right.

And she has Dennis Rodman guarding John Starks on her back.

Two-foot tattoo.

John Starks' leg runs down her right leg, I believe.

They turned up to the game in the third quarter, which is a dick move, Andy.

When you have to see Tommy's talking about it, you're getting a fucking hot talk.

That's right.

Your ass should be in those seats from start to finish.

But the real media history took place when they met Beyoncé and Jay-Z.

It was a meeting of royalty, Andy.

Except for the fact that Jay-Z and Queen Bay actually earned their titles rather than being born into them.

So clearly, it doesn't count.

And finally, Prince William spoke at the World Bank against the illegal international trade of wildlife, attacking those who, I quote, loot our planet to feed mankind's ignorant craving for exotic pets, trinkets, cures and ointments derived from the world's vanishing and irreplaceable species.

The awkward thing about that was at no point was it completely clear whether he was attacking looters or simply describing his ancestors.

I know a little something about this crime.

It's in my blood.

And in most of his dinners as well, to be fair.

So this is Bugle 281.

281, of course, a handy thumbs, fingers, willys mnemonic for males.

Do a weekly check, male buglers.

If any of those numbers have changed, do consult the doctor.

And also a bit of a Christmas one, this, John.

281, the number of not-so-wise men who pitched up at the birth of Jesus, along with the three actually wise ones, 284 in total, 281 of them weren't the sharpest lemons in the fruit bowl, brought less wise presents like hacksaws, snakes, beer, novelty dancing Pharisees, and silk lingerie.

They were, of course, written out of the Bible, understandably, top three only.

Bit harsh on the fourth guide, brought formula milk powder, quite thoughtful.

But of course, the magic kid turned it straight into sherbet.

Strong early skills from the lamp.

And we're recording the week ending 12th of December, meeting on Monday, the 15th of December.

It'll be six years, John, since my midwifery career both began and ended in

quite a noisy bathroom.

Impromptu midwife.

One for one.

You cannot top that record.

Batting a thousand.

Hall of Fame.

As always, a section of the bugle is going straight into the bin.

I'm in yet another Christmas gifts section.

You can't move for them in your newspapers at the moment.

Oh, section in the bin, Christmas gifts for pets, for your furniture, if you particularly love a chair, for your long dead relatives.

That's

increasingly common now to bury a present for a long dead relative just as a gesture.

I mean it's all helping the economy.

Also we give you a voucher for an online speed christening.

You simply have to scan your baby in, email it to anglocax.div and Anglocax will print out a picture of your tot doused it in holy water and mail it back to you in a plastic bag so it's still discernibly holy and wet when you receive it.

Then simply paste the christening print onto your infants with standard household wallpaper paste.

Leave it on for a week and your kid will have been dosed up for life with the love of the Lord.

So that's you're getting free.

Unfortunately it is in the win.

And a Christmas audio advent calendar.

This entry is for Monday the 15th.

Ah Joseph, I think it's coming.

You're not due for almost two weeks, Mary.

It's coming Joseph.

He's f ⁇ ing coming.

It's it's an it at the moment.

We don't know yet.

It's an it.

He's coming.

I can feel it.

Not my kid.

Not my problem.

And for the 16th, your mom sent us something for the baby, Mary.

It better not be any more f ⁇ ing myrrh.

If another f ⁇ ing bastard gives us myrrh, I'll rip the ming new one.

There you go, your audio advent calendar in the bin.

Now in this week's bugle, we had promised you the My Country Tizzer Dick competition.

This has once again been postponed because one particular country has made a particularly strong bid for the title this week and instead we've devoted the show to that.

Top story this week, set your clocks to torture time!

Well, just seven days after Andy's horrific China

Royal Anchor album, wasn't it, in the late 50s?

Just a week after Andy's horrific pun run about China, the world must once again wrestle with the morality of inflicting inhumane actions on people for dubious reasons.

Come on.

Because after a five and a half year investigation, the U.S.

Senate Intelligence Committee has released a summary of a report into the CIA interrogation program established in the wake of 9-11.

The chair of the committee, Diane Feinstein, has called that period a, and a quote, stain on American history, which is true, because like any stain, the US has tried to deal with it in a number of ways.

First, they tried to cover the stain up, then they tried to just ignore the stain and pretend it wasn't there.

You know, just learn to live with the stain and hope no one who comes over points at it and says, hey, what's up with that stain over there?

What's the story behind that?

Then they talked about removing the stain, but realized it'd be too difficult to get rid of.

So instead of settle on half-heartedly investigating whose fault the stain was in the first place without finding any answers, despite the fact that everyone has a pretty good idea who did it,

this is just a redacted 525-page summary of a full 6,000-page-long report.

But even the summary makes for great bedtime reading if, instead of sleeping, your ideal bedtime is a preparation to stare unblinking at the ceiling for eight solid hours, tormented by the kind of behaviour your country engaged in.

And some may even be using it for that purpose because for some inexplicable reason, the Kindle version of the report is currently a best-selling book on Amazon.

And I don't know what's more shocking about that, Andy.

The fact that so many people see the terror report as a perfect stocking stuffer, or the fact that many people don't know that the report is available to download for absolutely nothing, absolutely everywhere.

Because unless the paid version has some extra non-redacted features, then it's completely pointless.

Just pay an extra $2 to unlock where the CIA black sites were.

Oh, okay.

Well, it has, I mean, it's not been the most tightly guarded secrets, but I guess, you know, hearing it spelled out in 6,000 pages of gory detail is kind kind of rams home the point.

Of course, the traditional defence, and there is still some pretty vocal defense from the likes of Dick Cheney.

The traditional defence is, well, if it wasn't for these torture techniques, then we would all be speaking al-Qaedish by now.

But

I guess we'll let history be the judge of that.

There's some extraordinary details.

One detainee, Abu Zubaida, was confined to a coffin-sized box for a total of 266 hours, and then an even smaller box for a further 29 hours.

Now, this smaller box, John, 53 centimeters by 76 centimeters by 76 centimeters.

Now, sure, a space like that in the right part of London is probably worth about 150 grand, but in the wrong part of the CIA secret prison network, it is not quite as desirable, particularly if you are more than 76 centimeters tall, which most terror suspects statistically are.

Also, if you're going to interrogate someone, John, you do not want them to reply.

Can Can you repeat the question, please?

I'm inside a small box.

Say it nice and slowly.

The acoustics in here are awful.

Besides, John, your environment affects your behaviour.

You lock someone in a coffin-sized box for a couple of weeks.

You're not just going to be dealing with a suspected terrorist.

You are going to be dealing with a vampire.

That's just making the situation worse.

The report highlights a number of key findings, some of which are shocking and some of which are nothing more than confirmation of what everyone sadly pretty much assumed.

But you should know that reading the full text may make you legally culpable in torturing yourself, as knowledge of what's contained may well inflict cruel and unusual punishment on the human soul.

The report finds that the enhanced interrogation techniques that the CIA used, which I think we can just call torture from now on, both for reasons of ease and accuracy, it found that they were not an effective way of acquiring intelligence or gaining cooperation from detainees.

Also, it found that interrogations of CIA detainees were brutal and far worse than the CIA represented to policymakers and others.

It also found the CIA's operation of the programme complicated and in some cases impeded the national security missions of other executive branch agencies.

So it was essentially ineffective at the one thing it was supposed to do and impeded the work of other agencies in which case it was literally worse than nothing.

And as for how many people were caught up in this nauseating net, that's a little hard to say because the reports also found that the CIA's claims about the number of detainees held and subjected to its enhanced interrogation techniques were inaccurate.

Look, as reviews go, Andy, this report is a one-star review.

Put it this way, if the CIA was a restaurant on Yelp, they would not have many reservations for dinner tomorrow night.

But as you say, it's the details of the report where the real horror is.

It's not just coffin-shaped boxes.

At one point the CIA claimed that they subjected detainees to sleep deprivation for no longer than 180 hours, seemingly not realizing that 180 hours is a f of a long time, Andy.

That's been kept awake for over a week.

Claiming that that's a good thing is like putting up a sign in a factory saying no major industrial accident for 11 days.

So that means...

That means there was a huge accident here last Wednesday then.

I don't think that sign is quite as reassuring as you seem to think it is.

Other techniques used include the attention grasp, which I think is just a basic advertising technique, isn't it?

20% off my lifetime incarceration if I tell all that is a tempting offer.

Walling, we all love a bit of DIY.

The facial hold, that John shows the influence of

WWE wrestling, frankly.

Not just moves like the facial hold and the stress position, but also goes right down to the obviously inauthentic and contrived results.

The facial slap.

I mean, is this some kind of makeup thing?

A bit of slap?

I'd imagine a hardline Islamist hates having excessive makeup put on against his will.

Wall standing, that's a lovely little village in Gloucestershire.

Cramped confinement and sleep deprivation, basically just like having a baby.

And insects placed in a confinement box,

which I believe is a cryptic crossword clue, for which the answer is totally unacceptable.

I think, I'm not sure.

I think it might be.

I'm not sure.

Possibly an anagram.

So is that in one of those coffin-shaped boxes, you could plausibly find yourself inside saying, listen, I'm in a pretty bad spot here, but I guess at least there's no spider in here.

Wait, they're opening the lid.

Are they letting me out?

Oh, f.

Yeah, it was kind of what I guess the CIA in their defense would describe as aggressive quizzing with a touch of physical banter.

But it appears that it's now been decided that this has gone beyond boys will be boys type rough housing.

The report also referred not just to waterboarding but also to rectal hydration and rectal feeding which unfortunately is exactly what it sounds like.

There's an example in the report where a detainee was fed a meal through his rectum, a meal which incidentally included hummus, pasta with sauce, nuts and raisins.

I don't know why that makes it worse Andy but somehow it definitely does.

Yeah without the nuts maybe but the nuts are a definite issue.

And where this constitutes torture is that the rectal feedings were not medically necessary.

In fact, Tim Dickinson in Rolling Stone says rectal hydration without evidence of medical necessity essentially was sexual assault plus water.

Which makes sense because you would not be happy if you went to a fancy restaurant, ordered a fine meal, only to have your waiter say, oh, excellent choice, sir.

Now try to relax before shoving a tube up your rectum and gesturing to the chef to bring a funnel over, screaming, I'm just trying to keep this country safe, as you desperately attempt to signal that you don't want any bread rolls.

Thank you very much.

Well, of course, rectal feeding, not only a relief picture for the Sacramento Scrotals in 1940s Major League Baseball, but in fact, what, I mean, it has been, it is an option, John, at a top-line restaurant, Rack and Ruin, the enhanced interrogation-themed restaurant in Langley, opened in 2002 by triple celebrity chefs Scluton Malvain, where the signature dish is probes of torcellini stuffed with squid inquisitions, force-thrust into a guilt-drenched intestina of major beef, flushed with a chicken consommenima, finalized with an unamused bouche of vanilla confessions so

also um rectal hydration i mean that sounds bad i mean that is the last place you want a mythical beast that keeps growing extra heads also known as proctor cleisis

uh and proctor cleisis was of course in lyndon b johnson's cabinet secretary of state for shouting at foreign countries i think

The details go on.

In November 2002, a detainee called Gul Rahman was chained to a concrete floor whilst partially nude he then froze to death and if that wasn't bad enough which it demonstrably is he froze to death due to mistaken identity an action and a and yes yes that's probably shouldn't laugh yes but that that's right that does seem like a significant procedural glitch yeah well and from that procedural glitch, Andy, it's interesting to point out that was an action and a mistake which the CIA ruthlessly punished by taking absolutely no disciplinary action against the officers supervising the facility whatsoever.

Meaning they they took pretty much the opposite scale of action against a guilty man than they did a completely innocent one.

And finally, the CIA detained an innocent man who was mentally ill, knowing he was innocent, and held him as leverage against one of his family members.

It's pretty

bleak, this report, Andy.

And as you mentioned, Dick Cheney has shown the same respect for this report that he showed in office for America's human rights record, which sure wasn't impeccable at the time, but looked even less less impeccable after he'd taken an eight-year shit on it.

He called the report deeply flawed and full of crap, which sounds like he

could be quoting his own psychological evaluation rather than the report.

And in one of the saddest reactions, President George W.

Bush,

a name it's been really nice not to say for a long time, said that he explicitly told people not to reveal to him the location of the CIA black sites as he felt he might accidentally reveal them.

And the tragic thing about that is he was probably right.

Andy,

I think it would have been entirely consistent for him to be showing a journalist or someone around the Oval Office saying, well, this is the room where I have to keep the fact that we have CIA black sites in Romania in my head and not let it into anyone else's heads.

Oh,

please don't tell Dick he's going to be so mad with me.

Well, with hindsight, using torch techniques when you are fighting a supposedly moral war does look more offbeat than a 1980s British gymnast.

With hindsight, as indeed it, of course, looked with foresight, or as I believe Dick Cheney calls it, preemptive hindsight.

And to lose,

I'm not sure we've lost the moral high ground as a result of this.

I think we probably do still have the...

the moral high ground over al-Qaeda.

But in terms of moral high grounds, this is now like the Titanic claiming to have the physical high ground over another shipwreck, which is at the bottom of the Marianas trench.

A, it's nothing to write home about.

B, it should have been easily avoided and should never have found itself in this position.

And C, people will almost certainly make films about it.

The current CIA director, John Brennan, hit back at the report as well, arguing that the CIA's methods prevented terror attacks and saved lives.

And those are two things that everyone loves, Andy.

Preventing terror attacks and saving lives

is basically, it's like peanut butter and ice cream.

If you don't like them, you're a complete asshole.

And if you claim you're not using them, you're fucking lying.

You're lying.

Are those two in isolation?

Separately.

Separately.

Okay.

Separately.

Although, you know, you add a little peanut butter to

be in America far too long.

At least you didn't go with jelly.

There's a problem with people.

Hearing about an ice cream is nice.

It is.

That's what I'm saying, Chris.

It's seriously nice.

Andy, you're the one who's not on message here.

Right.

And again, the point is, Andy.

Don't knock until you've tried it.

Right, okay.

Don't knock it until you've prevented a terror attack or saved someone's life.

Yeah.

Well, that's hypocritical view.

Have you ever tortured, attempted to torture a confession out of someone, John?

History will be my judge.

We don't know.

That's the whole point of what John Brennan is saying, Andy.

We can't know for sure yet whether I've saved lives and prevented terror attacks.

Because the problem is...

that there is absolutely no evidence that the CIA's torture methods prevented any terror attacks or saved any lives, quite the opposite, in fact.

So Brennan is either lying or he's withholding information.

And if he's withholding information, unfortunately, we can't torture him to break down his resistance, because as this report makes painfully clear, that doesn't

work.

The report itself states that at no time did the CIA's coercive interrogation techniques lead to the collection of imminent threat intelligence, such as the hypothetical ticking time bomb.

And this is a five and a half year investigation trawling through six million pages of documents.

So Brennan's next tactic was to argue that it is unknowable if the agency's enhanced interrogation techniques actually help prevent any terrorist attacks.

I mean, sure, that conceivably might be true, Andy, just as it's unknowable whether Germany winning the World Cup this year prevented a second Holocaust.

It's unlikely in the face of overwhelming evidence against it, but I guess it's technically unknowable all the same.

It's unknowable whether Mechan Trainers, all about that base, about that base, about that base.

No treble.

It's unknowable whether that song song single-handedly averted the greatest terror attack of all time later this year, due to it being so catchy.

But let's hold off on awarding her the Nobel Peace Prize until we have a little more in the way of evidence.

Well, I guess Cheney and Brennan rejecting these criticisms is roughly equivalent to the recent case of FIFA finding themselves not guilty of corruption, nor of tobacco companies discovering that lung cancer is actually good for you and emphysema makes you 66% sexier.

Or perhaps even Secretariat flatly denying that he was a fast horse, or the Queen declaring that she's never ever worn an over-flashy hat.

Here's an interesting quote from Cheney.

He said this,

we've got

talking about Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, who was formerly the number three ranked baddie in the whole of al-Qaeda, which I think means he was seeded to meet Bin Laden in the semi-final.

But

we've got Khaled Sheikh Mohammed, who's mastermind of 9-11, and he's in our possession.

We know who's the architect.

What are we supposed to do?

Kiss him on both cheeks and say, please tell us what you know.

Of course not.

But surely that had to be worth a go.

If nothing else, just to confuse the lad.

Look, I don't like Khaled Sheikh Mohammed at all.

He's not my kind of guy.

But a little peck on both cheeks.

Who knows what he would say?

Brennan's final and perhaps most desperate grasp for the moral high ground, the kind of desperate grasp that hypothetically a restrained detainee might try to make while water was being poured into his upturned nose, let's say, you know, a desperate, tragically futile grasp.

Brennan's final grasp was saying, look, we did a lot of things right.

And that, in a very real sense, Andy, is not the f ⁇ ing point.

Because

Charles Manson could say, hey, yeah, look, yes, I've conspired to commit several brutal murders and I shouldn't have done that.

But let's not dismiss the fact that I made several outstanding omelets in my lifetime.

Feta cheese, diced peppers, pancetta.

Let the record show that I also know how to treat an egg.

Okay?

What do you mean?

How could you?

Just by my entire body of work

be putting pepper in an omelette i mean it's just it's just

too strong a flavor manson too strong

uh president obama who himself had admitted that uh some methods amounted to torture said that he hoped the publication of the report uh the publication which he himself thought would help us leave these techniques where they belong in the past but but the problem with that level of comfort in that sentence uh is that the past he's referring to is not the 1800s it's just eight years ago.

So it might need a little more attention than he's willing to give it.

And unsurprisingly, the global reaction has not been overjoyed to this report, although many countries need to be very careful about how they choose to talk about this.

Because let's be clear, there are a lot more countries than just America implicated in this report.

It's estimated that when you include nations that allowed rendition flights to land and take off in their countries, more than a quarter of the world's countries assisted the CIA in running its torture program.

So that's a lot of people with blood, tears, sweat, urine and dead bodies on their hands.

Even countries who are no strangers themselves to, let's say, tooting on the torture trombone have been getting involved in reacting.

China's state-run Xinhua news agency stated, perhaps the US government should clean up its own backyard first and respect the rights of other countries to resolve their issues by themselves.

America is neither a suitable role model nor a qualified judge on human rights issues in other countries, including China.

And look,

that's a tough pill to take from China and their particular human rights record, Andy, but that's the problem.

Due to the content of this report, it's a pill that the US is going to have to hold its nose and just swallow.

In Russia, their state-run Channel 1 TV featured a reporter saying the Senate report makes people shudder and prove that detainees were tortured with an inquisitor's ingeniousness.

And from a Russian state-run agency, Andy, that almost sounds like a compliment.

Sounds very much like a compliment.

Listen, guys, we have to try harder.

The truly incredible thing is how close all of this came to being a non-issue.

Because the report also revealed that CIA officials considered closely taking a very different path, specifically a system under which detainees would have had the same rights as people held in federal or military prisons inside the US with facilities like any standard Supermax prison here.

And critically, that any interrogations would have to be conducted in accordance with the United States Army Field Manual, which explicitly prohibits coerced, painful questioning.

So what happened to that reasonable plan, Andy?

Well, unfortunately, it appears that Donald Rumsfeld happened to that plan.

And he is like a decapitated rat baked into a loaf of bread.

He's a very unwelcome addition.

The former CIA general counsel, John

John Rizzo went into that line as well, to be fair.

The former CIA General Counsel, John Rizzo,

recalled in an interview that Rumsfeld took military bases off the table, so we started looking around at what became the black sites.

We brainstormed.

Do we put them on ships?

We considered a deserted island.

It was born out of necessity.

It wasn't some diabolical plot.

But look, that's the thing about diabolical plots, Andy.

They never seem like diabolical plots to the people who are diabolically plotting them at the time.

I'm sure that someone working on the Death Star once said, look, let's be clear.

Darth Vader's negotiations with Alderan were taken off the table.

So we brainstormed and we eventually landed on destroying it and everyone living on it with a super laser.

It was born out of necessity.

It wasn't some diabolical plot.

And it wasn't like, this is the really sad thing.

It wasn't like the CIA did not have personnel options too.

They already had a group of experts that specialized in techniques designed to build a rapport with detainees they were interviewing.

Apparently, in interviews known as fireside chats, they extracted information.

Yes, yes.

This puts Roosevelt in a very, very different light.

He was trying to

interrogate the American people.

Exactly.

They extracted information and determined whether it was reliable.

Previous CIA experts believed that any coercive interrogation led to unreliable information.

And even if that wasn't true, which it clearly is, seduction is a much more impressive skill.

It's like kissing on the face, Andy.

Beating a confession out of someone is such a cliche.

Seducing it out of them is a counter-terrorism technique no one would see coming.

Just an interrogator walking into a room, dimming the lights, lighting a couple of candles.

playing some soft music and bringing out some chocolate covered strawberries.

Maybe throwing in a shoulder rub just to ease that information out of them.

Just ease it out, Andy.

Well, that's an interesting point, John, because as you say, I mean, morally and ethically, I mean, do we have a leg to stand on?

Yes, but that leg is made of ice and we are standing on an erupting volcano.

But I guess the only crumb of comfort would be to see, to find a system that works for the future.

Now, I ran a test on torture to see if it works.

It was quite complicated.

I had myself hypnotised to convince myself I was involved in a major terrorist organisation.

I then rang up the British Secret Services and shot myself and had myself subjected to two very different forms of interrogation and let's let's just see how they went

come on shit head spill the f ⁇ ing beans

ow ow ow don't put them I don't want to go in the box I'm not enjoying this ah

ah yes I admit it it was me that was That was me on the grassy knoll.

You'll find the gunpowder stored in a room underneath the House of Lords.

It's going bag in in early November.

I'm not sure exactly what.

Ah, okay, the fifth.

Ah!

1605!

Yes!

Ah!

I also know which one Jesus is.

He's the good-looking lad with a beard.

I'll give him a smooch so you can know how to pick him out.

Oh, that's better.

Ah!

Normandy!

It's got to be Normandy.

So that clearly got some results using the American torch dealing, but not necessarily the most reliable results.

Now let's compare that with, as you say, this rather less aggressive form of questioning.

Hello, Mrs.

Oltzman.

Hello.

Thank you for coming and to see us here today at...

Do take a seat in the comfy chair, cup of tea.

Oh uh yes please.

There you go.

Strong with milk.

We know you like it that way.

Uh how do you know that?

Uh don't don't you worry about that Mrs.

Altzman.

Uh I am Agent.

This is Agent

who will give you a nice relaxing neck massage while we chat.

Oh oh thanks very much.

May I just say you're looking absolutely lovely today, Mrs.

Altzman.

The orange in your overalls really brings out your eyes.

Uh have you been working out?

No.

Don't be modest, you're absolutely ripped.

Mozzarella, help yourself.

Oh, thanks very much, Agent.

Please call me.

Right, are you comfy?

Yeah, absolutely.

Feeling great, thanks.

Oh, good.

I've just got a couple of questions for you, Mrs.

Zaltzman.

Far away.

Sorry, almost forgot.

Please tell us what you know.

Right.

What do I know?

Well, I know that the early 20th century England cricketer Sidney Barnes still has the best record in test-match cricket for any bowler who's played more than...

That's not quite what we were looking for, Mr.

Zaltzman.

uh sorry uh tell me mr zalton have you ever been involved in plotting the downfall of the west through a terrorist network of sleeper cells covertly located in secret pockets around the world and if so could you tell us the names and addresses of those involved yes absolutely i have the main guy you want to get your hands on uh is reducted who's based in a cave complex in reducted oh is that the one just outside

uh yes that's the one anyway those guys are currently planning to seize power in reducted

mm-hmm

then you've got rejected

reject it and of course reject it Al

Reduct it

who are masterminding a reject it in reducted

sorry can you say that again Mrs Zoltzmann I was distracted by your hair it's lovely what do you use in it uh thanks but can I please finish telling you about the terror plots please sorry of course I'm all ears and recording devices see

There you go.

It's, you know, a little bit of madness goes a long way when you're investigating potential terror attacks.

And I guess the most insane conclusion of all of this is to do with who was hired to be the architects of this entire mess.

Because it turned out, as the reports were...

It wasn't those two guys from the Muppets, was it?

Well,

I think the two guys from the Muppets may actually have been slightly more qualified to do it.

The two people involved were two contract psychologists, James Mitchell and Bruce Jess and their names have later been revealed by the media the centre report revealed that and I quote neither psychologist had any experience as an interrogator nor did either have specialized knowledge of al-Qaeda a background in counter-terrorism or any relevant cultural or linguistic expertise sold

sold Andy that must have been one hell of an interview process oh why should we give you the job I don't know really we have no relevant experience that qualifies us for it I like your honesty you're hired

some some some people crack it first time John Neil Armstrong for example his only previous flying experience was when he had to dress up like a pterodactyl for a school nativity play and flap around trying to eat the baby Jesus

that's partially true that partially to be more to be to be more specific dr mitchell joined the air force in 1974 specializing in bomb disarmament before earning a doctorate in psychology focusing on diet exercise and hypertension only the last of which could even be tangentially relevant to a detainee interrogation because diet and exercise don't seem to be two particular priorities for inmates at Guantanamo, for instance.

What exercises can you do when you're in a 53 by 76 by 76 centimetre box?

I don't know.

I guess Kaggle exercises.

Did he come out of that box saying, I have been working on my pelvic floor like you would not believe?

This is, I am ripped.

I have prison abs inside me.

He said Dr.

Jesson, meanwhile, earned a doctorate focusing on family sculpting.

That was his doctorate.

And yet their company was ultimately paid $81 million to design a new approach for the CIA to use regarding detention and interrogation.

Just in case you think there may be any legal action taken against them, obviously you're wrong.

You have too much hope in your heart for that.

Because in 2007, Mitchell, Jesson and Associates hired a law firm and billed the CIA more than one million dollars in legal expenses through 2012 and in fact under the CIA's current contract with the company they are obliged to pay any legal expenses for them until 2021.

The whole story Andy

is

pretty awful.

Is it not all covered by some obscure clause in the US Constitution?

I think we have to hope that

if you rub something away in the Constitution, there's something scrolled in there saying, that's all alright.

It's fine.

If you just read it backwards

in an Iraqi accent, it's fine.

Yeah, I think we need Nicholas Cage to steal this Constitution, squiggle a few things on it, and then replace it without anyone noticing.

Well,

that concludes this week's happy, happy bugle.

Can we call that a Christmas special or not?

Well, you can call it the opposite of one.

The gift that we're going to be.

You can call it a coffee.

Yeah, a Mike Lee Christmas special.

So, we hope you've enjoyed that.

If enjoy is an

opposite word.

A quick apology to some people have had problems with the Bugle Christmas jumper.

It has unexpectedly sold out, and unexpectedly, the merchandise company has not been quite as efficient as it might be at

legislating for that unexpected eventuality.

So, I'm very sorry if you tried to get one and couldn't.

But I guess next year's Christmas jumper will know to make at least 100,000 of them.

It's always reassuring when a company doesn't plan for success, Andy.

That's solid.

Well, I mean, they've just seen the Zoltzmann name involved, and they know not to bother.

It's like making two iPods.

People aren't going to like this.

Do keep your emails coming in to info at thebuglepodcast.com.

That does also mean we've had some spectacular entries for the My Country Tizardic competition.

That will definitely be done next week.

Do keep your emails coming in.

They will close on Tuesday night if you do have any further submissions for that competition.

Don't forget to check out our SoundCloud page, soundcloud.com/slash the hyphen bugle.

You are entitled to give all our back episodes there to loved ones as a Christmas gift.

That's on us.

That is on the house.

Sorry, on SoundCloud.

And our webpage, thebuglepodcast.com, has the merch that hasn't sold out, which I believe is probably all the other merch, possibly excluding eulogy mug, which is enduringly popular and not to be used around children, as I discovered recently.

And my daughter said,

oh, what is a f you?

You eulogy?

Yep.

That's daddy's mug.

Daddy's special mug.

Gotta learn.

Gotta learn.

Thank you for listening, buglers.

Until next week, goodbye.

Bye.

Flushed with a chicken consomemina.

Sorry.

Flushed with a chicken consonenema.

Sorry, that's a very hard word to say.

Flushed with a chicken consomemina enema.

Follocks!

Flushed with a chicken consumment.

No.

Hi, buglers, it's producer Chris here.

I just wanted to very quickly tell you about my new podcast, Mildly Informed, which is in podcast feeds and YouTube right now.

Quite simply, it's a show where me and my friend Richie review literally anything.

So please come join us wherever you get your podcasts right now.